Gospel | Chapter 7: Dec 14, 1882 (Part 1) | Swami Sarvapriyananda

0:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna class where we read the English translation of the Bengali [SPEAKER_01]: published right here in New York from the Ramakrishna Vivek on the center. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there are different versions and there's one published from India as well from from the Chennai Ramakrishna mat.

0:42 [SPEAKER_01]: This is also very good. [SPEAKER_01]: We are going to read from page 163 in my book that's chapter 7 and the date is 14th December 1882 which is Thursday 14th December 1882. [SPEAKER_01]: It was afternoon, Sri Ramakrishna was sitting on his bed after a short, noon day rest, Vijay, Balaram, M and a few other devotees were sitting on the floor with their faces toward the master.

1:18 [SPEAKER_01]: They could see the sacred river ganges through the door. [SPEAKER_01]: Since it was winter, [SPEAKER_01]: Vijay had been suffering from Kholik and had brought some medicine with him. [SPEAKER_01]: Vijay was a paid preacher in the Sadharan drum of Samaj, but there were many things about which he could not agree with the Samaj authorities.

1:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He came from a very noble family of Bengal, noted [SPEAKER_01]: Adwaita Goswami, one of his remote ancestors, had been an intimate companion of Sri Caitanya. [SPEAKER_01]: Thus, the blood of a great lover of God flowed in Vijay's veins. [SPEAKER_01]: As an adherent of the Brahma Samaj, Vijay no doubt meditated on the formless Brahma, but his innate love of God inherited from his distinguished ancestors had merely been waiting for the proper time [SPEAKER_01]: Thus Vijay, who was irresistibly attracted by the god intoxicated state of Sri Ramakrishna, and often sought his company, he would listen to the master's words with great respect, and they would dance together in an ecstasy of divine love.

2:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a weekday, [SPEAKER_01]: Generally devotees came to the Master in large numbers on Sundays. [SPEAKER_01]: Hence those who wanted to have intimate talks with him visited him on weekdays. [SPEAKER_01]: A boy named Vishnu, living in Ariyadhaha, had recently committed suicide by cutting his throat with a razor.

3:16 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a pupil in a school, and he used to come here. [SPEAKER_01]: He would often say to me that he couldn't enjoy worldly life. [SPEAKER_01]: He had lived with some relatives in the Western provinces. [SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, he used to meditate in solitude in the meadows, hills, and forests.

3:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He told me that he had visions of many divine forms. [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps this was his last birth. [SPEAKER_01]: He must have finished most of his duties [SPEAKER_01]: The little that had been left undone was perhaps finished in this one. [SPEAKER_01]: One must admit the existence of tendencies inherited from previous births.

3:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a story of a man who practiced the Shavushadhana. [SPEAKER_01]: The Shavushadhana, there's a footnote, a religious practice prescribed by the Tantra, in which the aspirant uses a shava or corpse as his seat for meditation. [SPEAKER_01]: He worshiped the divine mother in of deep forest.

4:17 [SPEAKER_01]: First, he saw many terrible visions. [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, a tiger attacked and killed him. [SPEAKER_01]: Another man, happening to pass and seeing the approach of the tiger, had climbed the tree. [SPEAKER_01]: Afterwards, he got down and found all the arrangements for worship at hand.

4:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He performed some purifying ceremonies and seated himself on the corpse. [SPEAKER_01]: No sooner had he done a little japa when the divide mother appeared before him and said, my child, I'm very much pleased with you, accept a boom from me. [SPEAKER_01]: He bowed low at the lotus feet of the goddess and said, may I ask you one question, mother?

4:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm speechless with the measurement at your action. [SPEAKER_01]: The other man worked so hard to get the ingredients for your worship and tried to [SPEAKER_01]: but you didn't condescend to show him your favor. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would don't know anything of worship who have done nothing, who have neither devotion nor knowledge nor love, and who haven't practiced any austerities.

5:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm receiving so much of your grace. [SPEAKER_01]: The Divine Mother said with a laugh, by child you don't remember your previous births. [SPEAKER_01]: For many births you tried to propitiate me through austerities. [SPEAKER_01]: as a result of those austerities, all these things have come to hand and you have been blessed with my vision.

5:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Now ask me your boon or devotee. [SPEAKER_01]: I am frightened to hear of the suicide. [SPEAKER_01]: Master, suicide is a heinous sin undoubtedly, a man who kills himself must return again and again [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't call it suicide. [SPEAKER_01]: If a person leaves his body after having the vision of God, there is no harm in giving up one's body that way.

6:11 [SPEAKER_01]: After retaining knowledge, some people give up their bodies. [SPEAKER_01]: After the gold image has been cast in the clay mold, you may either preserve the mold or break it. [SPEAKER_01]: Many years ago, a young man of about 20 used to come to the temple garden from Baranagar. [SPEAKER_01]: his name was Gopal Shain.

6:33 [SPEAKER_01]: In my presence, he used to experience such intense ecstasy that Rira had to support him for fear he might fall to the ground and break his limbs. [SPEAKER_01]: The young man touched my feet one day and said, Sir, I shall not be able to see you anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me bid you goodbye.

6:53 [SPEAKER_01]: A few days later, [SPEAKER_01]: I learned that he had given up his body. [SPEAKER_01]: It is said that there are four classes of human beings, the bound, those aspiring after liberation, deliberated, and they ever perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read a little more later, but let me just go back to what we have read and make a few comments.

7:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So at the beginning, the second paragraph, he introduces Vijay. [SPEAKER_01]: came from a noble family of Bengal, noted for its piety, Adwaita Gosvami was one of his remote ancestors. [SPEAKER_01]: Those who have read the life of Sri Caitanya will know that Adwaita was one of the companions like the direct disciples of Sri Ramakrishna like that, the companions of Caitanya.

7:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: in the Vaishnava lineage, this would be considered an extraordinarily great family, you know, somebody descended from the direct companions of an incarnation of God. [SPEAKER_01]: So, and obviously, Vijay Krishna Goswami was deeply deeply devoted. [SPEAKER_01]: This reminds me of another incident, [SPEAKER_01]: that he is actually descended from what might be called Vaishnava royalty.

8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That is his forefather was Krishna Dasha Koviraj, the author of Jaitan Yachari Thamritah, the authoritative biography of Sri Jaitan Yachari Thamritah, that was composed by Krishna Dasha Koviraj. [SPEAKER_01]: And Swami Svita is a direct descendant of that family. [SPEAKER_01]: How I found out was very interesting.

8:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a new brahmachari about this was 1994 and I had gone to New Delhi as a new brahmachari and I had gone from Deoghar, the Ashram where I joined the Order is Deoghar. [SPEAKER_01]: At that time it was part of a state called Bihar. [SPEAKER_01]: Now that state has been in partition, there are two states now.

8:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Bihar and Jharkar. [SPEAKER_01]: So the yoga is in Charkhan now. [SPEAKER_01]: So I had gone from the yoga with the apitashram. [SPEAKER_01]: The head of the yoga with the apitashram was Swami Sohita Nandiji. [SPEAKER_01]: So he was my head, and I was absolutely new and novice. [SPEAKER_01]: And I had gone to Delhi for some work.

9:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I had been sent to our Delhi Ramakrishna Mission Ashram. [SPEAKER_01]: At that time, Swami, who was in charge of the Rindavan Ashram, Swami, three-week Kramananda, if you think that's a very big name, he was a big man, he was a huge man, I'm very forbidding, very strict, old Swami. [SPEAKER_01]: So he was visiting Delhi Ashram with another Swami.

9:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And those Swami, Swami, that I'm an absolute newcomer, you know, and say, have you ever been to Rindavan? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, no, I've just heard about Windavan. [SPEAKER_01]: I've never been there. [SPEAKER_01]: I was widened to come with us. [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you come to Windavan and see Windavan?

9:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, all right, let me just call my, so I mean, those days, no mobile phones, you have to make a phone call with the dial phones and everything. [SPEAKER_01]: I got the necessary permission to go to Rindavan and so I went to Rindavan and that was a memorable, really memorable, my first visit to Rindavan.

10:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are very deeply holy places, Rindavan, Kashi, this is Banaras and there are other places with some particularly powerful spots in the south of India for example. [SPEAKER_01]: You feel, um, an upsurge of spiritual emotion. [SPEAKER_01]: That means you feel very inspired.

10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So you'll generally feel the spirituality of these places wherever you are. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll feel it. [SPEAKER_01]: There's something there. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you particularly feel attracted to one place more than others, it shows that you have those some scars. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you are particularly attracted to bananas, maybe you have some scars of a shiver.

10:56 [SPEAKER_01]: it is a city, a city of Shiva. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you feel attracted to Puri, Jagannath Kuri, you know, or Tirupati, or Rwindavan, you have, why should never some scarists? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that they say. [SPEAKER_01]: So I liked it a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I have got why should never some some scarists.

11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I was very inspired by the short stay and Rwindavan. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, [SPEAKER_01]: Now there was another old Swami there who was in charge of the kitchen, and this Swami, his name, I remember still remember, he has passed away, Ramish Maharaj. [SPEAKER_01]: He was also a very tall and well-built man, huge man.

11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: elderly at that time. [SPEAKER_01]: And the interesting thing about him was he became a monk a long time ago, but he was not granted the occur robe and the vows of sannyasa because he didn't fulfill the minimum qualifications for a novice in our order. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the certain academic degrees you need to have, at least complete your college.

11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He had not. [SPEAKER_01]: So he just stayed for years and years. [SPEAKER_01]: It normally become, you know, we get the vows of Sanyas and 10 years, nine to 10 years. [SPEAKER_01]: And he got it after 25 years. [SPEAKER_01]: So that shows, but he was a wonderful family, very loving graph, but very loving.

12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I still remember one afternoon, it was winter in Brindavan. [SPEAKER_01]: After the particularly heavy meal, I was going to stagger back to my room for the afternoon CS, then I saw these swamis sitting in the courtyard outside and in the open courtyard. [SPEAKER_01]: And they were eating guavas, big guavas, this guava.

12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're standing there. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a three-week command under big man, ramish maraths, even bigger man. [SPEAKER_01]: And the ramish maraths was holding a huge wooden staff. [SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_01]: To drive away the monkeys who were pests, were trying to come and snatch the guava's away from the monks.

12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So the monks and the monkeys had a running battle going on over the guava's. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, when they saw me trying to sneak off to my room, to take my sister, they called out, [SPEAKER_01]: When I went there, and one of them, Ramesh Maita, I think he tossed a guava and so big one. [SPEAKER_01]: It took me, I barely caught it with my hands and ate.

13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I can't, I'm just too full. [SPEAKER_01]: Ramesh, a trivry commanding, the ground that, see, Sanatan is the name of Swami Switan and he's a Sanatan. [SPEAKER_01]: He's ground has Sanatan centers of Brahmacharya or a mouse. [SPEAKER_01]: Can't eat a guava? [SPEAKER_01]: So there were no other way.

13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I had to eat the guava side of the house, struggling with it, trying to finish one guava while those monks chomped away at it. [SPEAKER_01]: And the monkeys circle us, ominously trying to look for an opening to come in this. [SPEAKER_01]: I would have happily shared my guava with the monkey, but Rameshma just kept the monkeys away.

13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, to cut a long story short, the day I was supposed to come away. [SPEAKER_01]: Rameshma came to me, [SPEAKER_01]: with a little packet. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, you have been sent by Sanatana, which Swami Shvita and Jishana, you have come from Sanatana from Devokhar, give this to Sanatana.

14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, what is this? [SPEAKER_01]: He said, this is the dust of Rindavan, especially from Nidhu one, where the racely lies supposed to take place. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a dust from there. [SPEAKER_01]: So, in my, you know, naive way, I asked, why the dust of Rindavan, and then he looked at with utter astonishment.

14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't you know anything at all? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, what, you have joined under Sonatan Maharaj. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't know who Sonatan is. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, he is the descendant of Krishna Daskaviraj. [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the greatest families in the Vaishnava tradition.

14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I'm sending him the dust of Prindavan, particularly significant for him for his given his Vaishnava lineage. [SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna is to say that three things are the manifest Brahman in this world. [SPEAKER_01]: One, the water of the Ganges, that's Brahma, that water itself is Brahman in that way you would say.

15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: The whole universe is a manifestation of Brahman, but he says the manifestation is particularly evident in three things in this world. [SPEAKER_01]: One is the water of the Ganga. [SPEAKER_01]: The second is the dust of wind oven, wind oven in Roger, the very dust of wind oven. [SPEAKER_01]: And the third is the dry, dry spread, the spread of juggernaut, the spread of juggernaut.

15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So Ramishmaz gave me the dust of wind oven to take back to. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's when I learned that I didn't know who he was. [SPEAKER_01]: And that also reminds me when I came to the United States. [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, so he turns you at that time with the general secretary and the one thing he gave, when I still remember, I bowed down to him and said, I'm leaving for the United States that was seven years ago.

15:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He opened his, the dryer in his desk and he took this out, not kept it in front of me ever since. [SPEAKER_01]: This little packet, [SPEAKER_01]: It contains the the Prasad of Jagannath, he took this out and gave it to me. [SPEAKER_01]: So I kept it here in front of me all these years. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just dried rice, so it doesn't deteriorate.

16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so this is what reminded me, when he belonged to this family, his companions of Sri Caitanya, another little story. [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, so he turned into the G was the attendant of Swami Primesh Ananda, who was a disciple of the Holy Mother and his lifetime regarded as a Brahma Gyanian enlightened person.

16:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this story concerns the Chaitanya Charitambita, that book, which is the biography of Sri Chaitanya. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is how Swami Pramishnan Ji would teach and inspire young people who came to him. [SPEAKER_01]: There was this young man who came to Swami Pramishnan and who loved Swami Pramishnan a lot and would come to sit near him.

17:04 [SPEAKER_01]: His name was Badal. [SPEAKER_01]: So, so I have cremation that a unique way of teaching, he would notice the nature of each person and then inspired them that way. [SPEAKER_01]: The Bible was found of reading a lot and mostly novels, he would read lots of English novels. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you read a lot?

17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so I am so I am a cremation that he did on one occasion was. [SPEAKER_01]: by the lamb and a fix. [SPEAKER_01]: What Swami? [SPEAKER_01]: Here is a coat coat. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going on in my head. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where I got it from. [SPEAKER_01]: It's in this book, Jaitan Nisharitam.

17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The could you find it out for me? [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, give it to me. [SPEAKER_01]: And he gave it to him. [SPEAKER_01]: Could you find out the exact page where it is? [SPEAKER_01]: And for the next three days, this young man, he just read and read day and night, the life of Sri Caitanya.

17:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he found it, where it was, and he came rushing back, saw me, I found it. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he found it. [SPEAKER_01]: He was very appreciative of where is it now, but then Bagel was hooked. [SPEAKER_01]: He was hooked to Bhakti, devotion, love of God. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, Svetanji says, this is so touching, that when Badal went away after that, I left the room.

18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, prevention and the turn to Svetanji and said, good, now I won't have to worry about him. [SPEAKER_01]: He will take care of himself. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know, because I met Badal Babu, when the gentleman at an advanced age, he, [SPEAKER_01]: He tried to become a monk, but he couldn't.

18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He had to take care of his elderly mother. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he got a job. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't marry. [SPEAKER_01]: He just took care of his mother till she lived. [SPEAKER_01]: And then when she died, he resigned from his job. [SPEAKER_01]: And he came and lived the rest of his life, working in an ashram.

18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I saw him in the dark when I was, [SPEAKER_01]: new Grammachary, very devout person, day and night and full of. [SPEAKER_01]: He would talk only about Sri Ramakrishna, about Premish Maharaja, about the monks he had made, and nothing other than spiritual talk. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no other topic.

19:03 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it was quite exhausting to be around him because he would not come down from a certain plane. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and then he was in the there was an old age home, a senior facility and now one of our Ashrams in near Calcutta, Borisha. [SPEAKER_01]: So he was there in his last days.

19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how he lived. [SPEAKER_01]: But notice got him hooked to the Chaitar Nizaditarmitha and said in Bengali he said, [SPEAKER_01]: This is a weekday, which means they're only a closed group of devotees around him, small group. [SPEAKER_01]: Then he mentions Vishnu, the young boy, who killed himself.

19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And he used to come to Sri Ramakrishna and he was advanced in spiritual life. [SPEAKER_01]: And Sri Ramakrishna was very shocked when he heard that the [SPEAKER_01]: this is perhaps the last birth and one must admit that tendencies inherited from last birth. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it has a funny story, the Shabshadhana.

20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is a tantric practice. [SPEAKER_01]: It's what's called the left hand path of tantra, the Vama-Char tantra. [SPEAKER_01]: So in that one of the practices is you sit actually, instead of your meditation mat, you sit on an actual corpse [SPEAKER_01]: Which has cops get to be burned.

20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You go and sit on that and then you have to meditate on on the Divine Mother And there are a lot of rituals. [SPEAKER_01]: This is obviously has to be done the dead of the night in the cremation ground. [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine They're horrifying scenes and the midst of the terrible scene if to sit on meditate on the Divine Mother So very difficult kind of sadhana So this man was doing it in a deep forest.

20:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He had got hold of a cop somewhere [SPEAKER_01]: And he tried very hard this tantric sadhaka, but he had just horrible experiences. [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, he saw many terrible visions, scary visions. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he needed to be scared in the middle of a deep forest sitting on a corpse, surrounded by wild animals.

21:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, the inevitable happened. [SPEAKER_01]: A tiger came and attacked him and killed him. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was it. [SPEAKER_01]: That was his, that's his end result of all his spiritual practice. [SPEAKER_01]: Another man who was passing by seemed to be a pretty busy forest actually.

21:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And so his man was passing by and he heard the tiger in fear, he climbed the tree. [SPEAKER_01]: And he saw the whole thing happen. [SPEAKER_01]: The tiger killed him and maybe dragged the man away. [SPEAKER_01]: When he was safe, he came down. [SPEAKER_01]: And his man [SPEAKER_01]: He found everything ready for this most intricate and difficult ritual.

21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So immediately he sat down on this. [SPEAKER_01]: He might think it's a weird thing to do for it. [SPEAKER_01]: This is India and people are always looking for a shortcut to God realization or something else. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he has found this corpse and everything is ready. [SPEAKER_01]: All the implements for worship, all the constituents are ready.

22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the things which are needed for worship. [SPEAKER_01]: So he sits down and he starts practicing the Shavasadhan and the corpse practice. [SPEAKER_01]: None of this by the way is recommended. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't go out looking for a course. [SPEAKER_01]: And then just as he did a little bit of japa, he was started doing the japa, repeating the name of Divine Mother.

22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Divine Mother immediately appeared before him. [SPEAKER_01]: And said, I'm pleased with you. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me what you want. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, okay, hold on to that sort of mother. [SPEAKER_01]: But I have a question first. [SPEAKER_01]: How is it that poor guy before me? [SPEAKER_01]: He did all this and such an expert tantric and he took so much trouble to please you.

22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And nothing, he just got killed for his, you know, he got scared, terrified, and then he got killed for all his troubles. [SPEAKER_01]: And I do nothing, he says, I, who don't know anything of worship, who have done nothing, [SPEAKER_01]: who have neither devotion nor knowledge nor love.

23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he wasn't exactly nothing, because, notice, he immediately took the opportunity of meditating on the sharp side, and he knew what was going on, he knew the ritual, he knew enough to do the purificatory rituals, and then he, he always, he had the mantra of the Divine Mother at hand.

23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So all of that, clearly he was himself a practitioner and a seeker, and that's the attitude of the seeker, who feels, I am really nothing, this, all my practices, all my study, all my techniques are [SPEAKER_01]: And he says that, and the Divine Mother says with a laugh, you don't remember your previous births for many births, you've tried to propitiate me through austerities, as a result of those austerities, all these things have come to hand, and you've been blessed with my vision.

23:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Now ask me your boom. [SPEAKER_01]: And these things happen, actually. [SPEAKER_01]: Classic example in this day and age is Ramana Mahashī. [SPEAKER_01]: So one day he decided to think, what happens after death? [SPEAKER_01]: He was exactly the same question that Narchi Kaitah had. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was a Ramana Mushy also the teenager at that time.

24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that he had read a lot of Vedanta, not at all. [SPEAKER_01]: The little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little,

24:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It all comes from past lives. [SPEAKER_01]: Krishna has said, if a person does not attain to fully illumination in this life, nothing is lost. [SPEAKER_01]: In the next life, Pura Bihaseena Riyathi Yavashowapisa, he will be swept away by the force of past practices, even if unwilling. [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently that person may not be particularly religious to spiritual, like this guy who climbed down from the tree and became God the vision of the Divine Mother.

25:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Not particularly interested, but he thought let's give it a try and he became a lumen. [SPEAKER_01]: God God realization, the full vision of the Divine Mother herself. [SPEAKER_01]: and Ramana Machi is going to give it a try and he lies down on the floor in his room and pretends he tries to visualize what is it like suppose I am dead immediately realizes he is the earthman it is not the body not the mind he is the pure consciousness earthman and it is a deep real realization he swept away to such an extent he walks away from home [SPEAKER_01]: And then in goes to this temple, you would spend hours and hours daily in Samadhi even that also was used by people, even to the basement of the temple in Abandoned area where rats nod at his feet and he was actually injured but he remained.

25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: absorbed in samadhi, not feeling anything in the world for months at a time. [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, you know what happened later. [SPEAKER_01]: He is a ramanamha, she and so much of has happened after that. [SPEAKER_01]: All of it happened spontaneously, spontaneously. [SPEAKER_01]: How is that possible?

26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So Krishna says, to Arjuna, the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita exactly the same words, you have had many births before this. [SPEAKER_01]: O Arjuna, you do not remember any of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember them all. [SPEAKER_01]: you and I both have been. [SPEAKER_01]: You, the Jiva, you have come again and again on this world.

26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I the Lord eternally free, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God. [SPEAKER_01]: I incarnate as an avatar. [SPEAKER_01]: I have also come many times. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember them all. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember my own buds. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember your buds. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't remember any of them.

26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's exactly like this divine Mother says to that lucky Sadhaka that you have had many buds. [SPEAKER_01]: And you have had, you have advanced so much in spiritual life. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't remember them, but I know. [SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, you have got a realization at this moment.

26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: and say, how lucky, perhaps, but who knows who's going to be lucky? [SPEAKER_01]: What we can do is, we can do our spiritual practice. [SPEAKER_01]: We can keep on inquiring, and nothing is lost. [SPEAKER_01]: Suppose it's seen, it doesn't seem to give results. [SPEAKER_01]: That other poor practitioner who worked did so much.

27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems that everything is lost. [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing is lost. [SPEAKER_01]: This will all be deposited in his account. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it gives him further impetus in the next life. [SPEAKER_01]: There is the story of Hastamala Kacharya, the young disciple of Shankaracharya, who was already enlightened before coming to Shankaracharya, who would not talk, did not go to school, just sat under a tree, I guess today, they would be diagnosed with all kinds of autism or whatever, the poor parents did not know what to do with him, and they heard that Shankaracharya has come, [SPEAKER_01]: They approached him and said, look, could you come and bless my boy?

28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I would buy. [SPEAKER_01]: He is a good boy, but he doesn't need that speaks, not as he go to study, just sits under the tree all day long. [SPEAKER_01]: In those days, in villages, they could do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays, child services will be after you to put you lock you up if you don't send you [SPEAKER_01]: So Malgudi days, the short story writer and novelist also.

28:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So he writes about his childhood. [SPEAKER_01]: He grew up in a big joint family. [SPEAKER_01]: And so all the kids in the family, they were the joint responsibility of parents, uncles, and aunts, and all of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Somehow when all the kids were put in school, they missed him, missed putting him in school.

28:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when all the kids would set out to school with the school bags and he would also set out, but of course he didn't have a school to go to. [SPEAKER_01]: So they would all go off to school and he would have a delightful time playing in the orchards and in the meadows and relaxing here, the river and wait for school to be over when his cousins would come back and then they would all go back home.

29:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And he went on for years like this. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have the his parents knowing anything at all. [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, they discovered to their horror that the kid hasn't been going to school and they put him in school immediately. [SPEAKER_01]: But clearly he didn't lose anything at all.

29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He became this world renowned author. [SPEAKER_01]: So Shankaracharya goes to meet this young boy. [SPEAKER_01]: And immediately after seeing this little boy sitting under a tree, Shankaracharya recognizes this is an ill-illuminant person. [SPEAKER_01]: That is an enlightened person. [SPEAKER_01]: And asks, who are you child?

29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Why have you come on this world? [SPEAKER_01]: What is your purpose here? [SPEAKER_01]: And then that boy speaks for the first time. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously in perfect Sanskrit, he speaks for the first time. [SPEAKER_01]: And the, the him which he resides, astama like astotrum, that in 20 verses are there.

30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: very the highest non-duality, which is, I'm not a Brahmachari, not a householder, I'm not a you know forest welder, I'm not a monk, I'm not a Brahmin, not a Shatriya, not a Vaishya, not a [SPEAKER_01]: And so beautiful, the highest of the waiter. [SPEAKER_01]: And Shankaracharya tells the parents, give this by to me.

30:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He's an enlightened being, and he's come for the good of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: Or perhaps he had just this little bit remaining for enlightenment or whatever it is. [SPEAKER_01]: But so such things happen. [SPEAKER_01]: But the devotee says, obviously, I'm frightened to hear of the suicide.

30:57 [SPEAKER_01]: suicide is a heinous sin. [SPEAKER_01]: So man who, so Sri Ramakrishna gives this is a understanding of Suicide in not only Hinduism but all religions of the world that it is strongly condemned, one should not kill oneself, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Human birth, life is valuable and human birth is especially valuable.

31:20 [SPEAKER_01]: In Hinduism, Buddhism, Zionism, we have this belief that one gets a human body after 84 lakh birds, let me say 840,000 birds or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: So the basic idea is that it's very rare and one should use it for spiritual realization because it's in this bird that spiritual realization is possible, basically it's a way of [SPEAKER_01]: you know pointing to us the extreme importance of becoming enlightened or becoming spiritual in this life, not based it for anything else, but this have 8.4 million, but yes, but this have another example, they say it's like a, there's a tortoise swimming in the oceans of the world, once in like a hundred years it will come up.

32:07 [SPEAKER_01]: to the surface. [SPEAKER_01]: And there is a golden ring floating in the surface of the ocean somewhere. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what are the odds that when the tortoise comes up, it is neck will pass through that golden ring and the golden ring will follow its neck. [SPEAKER_01]: So in the all the oceans of the world, once in a hundred years.

32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that getting a human birth is as difficult as that. [SPEAKER_01]: And so one should use it for trying to attain Nirvana for spiritual realization. [SPEAKER_01]: So and so for the whole point being this that it's very important to be spiritual. [SPEAKER_01]: And that way we are all blessed that we have developed the taste and inquiry in spiritual life.

32:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why suicide is strongly strongly condemned and he says you will have to come back again and again and suffer. [SPEAKER_01]: The suffering that we were trying to avoid by killing ourselves, it'll again come back to us and more than once. [SPEAKER_01]: But then Sri Ram Krishna says something interesting.

33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't call it suicide if a person leaves this body after having the vision of God. [SPEAKER_01]: There is no harm in giving up one's body that way. [SPEAKER_01]: After retaining knowledge, some people give up their bodies and he uses a nice example. [SPEAKER_01]: Golden image of a God or goddess is being made and they use a clay mold.

33:23 [SPEAKER_01]: the mold basically and then when the gold is poured in there and you take it out, the image is made. [SPEAKER_01]: Now the mold, it's made of clay, it's not important anymore, you can keep it or destroy it. [SPEAKER_01]: So this body is like the mold in which we are using this body and the mine, titanium light and we need to see that we are not body, not mine, we are infinite awareness or using this body and mine to realize God, who is infinite.

33:50 [SPEAKER_01]: whichever way you put it. [SPEAKER_01]: Once you've done that, then you don't need the body mind anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: When you can let it go, that means destroy it. [SPEAKER_01]: Notice Tothapuri, when he was meditating, Sri Ramakrishna's ordadwaita Guru, [SPEAKER_01]: meditating once and he had excruciating stomach pain, induction age for in the deep of the night, day after day his body was basting away.

34:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Then one day he saw he could not attain samadhi, just because of the earthly pull of the sick, the diseased body. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he was discussed. [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I realized Brahman anyway, I know clearly that I am Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: Why keep this, you know, the shell, a physical, you know, flesh and blood shell.

34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you tried, then, you know, the story, tried to drown the body, he walked into the river. [SPEAKER_01]: because he sort of walked across the river and came out from the other side. [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a sand bank underneath when he buried his step. [SPEAKER_01]: And that led to his new conviction that he life and death are all in the hands of the Divine Mother.

34:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If I cannot even give up this body without the wish of the Divine Mother. [SPEAKER_01]: But what he tried to do, that Sri Ram Krishna is saying that an enlightened person may do that. [SPEAKER_01]: One cannot strictly say that they should not. [SPEAKER_01]: many years ago, a young man of about 20 used to come to the temple garden from Baranagar, his name was Gopal Sen.

35:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He had such intense ecstasy in the presence of Sri Ramakrishna. [SPEAKER_01]: Sri Daya had to support him. [SPEAKER_01]: Usually, we read about how Sri Daya had to support Sri Ramakrishna. [SPEAKER_01]: But here, that young man would go into that means, Sri Ramakrishna is saying that he had it means that must have been like genuine ecstasy.

35:32 [SPEAKER_01]: One day, the young man touched my feet, one day, and said, Sir, I shall not be able to see you any more. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me bid you goodbye. [SPEAKER_01]: So a few days later, I heard he had given up his body. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember there was, I don't know where I read it. [SPEAKER_01]: It was Abhidhan and that he here in the United States.

35:55 [SPEAKER_01]: When he was teaching, [SPEAKER_01]: A young woman who was an Ares, she was very rich, an American woman, is to come to those classes. [SPEAKER_01]: One day she came up very seriously to Abheirandya and said, so I mean, what you are saying is this true. [SPEAKER_01]: That there is God and you can realize God, that's the purpose of God and so I mean, he said, yes, that is the goal.

36:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she went away and nobody ever saw her again. [SPEAKER_01]: And it said that she went to some island, she was very, very super rich. [SPEAKER_01]: She had an island, she went there and spent the rest of her life in meditation, spiritual practice. [SPEAKER_01]: But see, that conviction, that tremendous conviction, it is there, and I must realize it in what else matters.

36:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to do this until the end of this body, as long as I live, I will just do that and see, God. [SPEAKER_01]: That was this lady. [SPEAKER_01]: Another beautiful story is there, of this European man, I don't know if it's British or from the continent. [SPEAKER_01]: He came, he had heard about, he had read about Vivekananda Sri Ramakrishna, so he came to India.

37:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And at that time Swami Brahman was the President of the Order. [SPEAKER_01]: And Brahman and the would not meet him at all. [SPEAKER_01]: This gentleman had come with some spiritual questions and Brahman and the would not meet him at all. [SPEAKER_01]: and the gentleman was heartbroken that he had come all this way and he had come to the main monastery in Belur to meet and Swami Pramhan and was called the spiritual son of Sri Ramokrishna.

37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Swami Pramhan refused to meet and so the day came for him to go away and so heartbroken he got into his in the Ganga, the boat to sail away to the other side, Calcutta. [SPEAKER_01]: And Swami Ramana did not know that the boat was passing by the monastery at that time. [SPEAKER_01]: And so Swami Ramana was standing on the bank of the river.

37:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how this European gentleman saw Swami Ramana on the bank of the river in the monastery. [SPEAKER_01]: Just saw him in passing. [SPEAKER_01]: And he, that night, he went back to his hotel in Calcutta, developed a high fever or something. [SPEAKER_01]: Next day, he passed away.

38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He died. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so I'm Raman, there was told about this. [SPEAKER_01]: He felt very sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, that's the reason why I was not coming before him. [SPEAKER_01]: So he said that when he saw me, he had a vision. [SPEAKER_01]: He was a great sautica. [SPEAKER_01]: He had always life.

38:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He was deeply devoted to the Christ. [SPEAKER_01]: And when he saw me, he had a vision of the Christ. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was like the fulfillment of his life. [SPEAKER_01]: He knew. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm Raman and the new. [SPEAKER_01]: He would not be able to keep the body when he, so even seeing someone like Swami Ramana, would be equal to seeing your Ishta Devata and that would be God realization and after that the body wouldn't stay.

38:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So, the number of such stories, very touching and inspiring also. [SPEAKER_01]: It is said that there are four classes of human beings, [SPEAKER_01]: The bound, those aspiring after liberation, deliberated, and the ever perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: Round is bodhu, and then those aspiring after liberation is the mūmūksū, deliberated is mūkta, and the ever perfect is the nithaśiddhu.

39:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Now he gives an example. [SPEAKER_01]: The world is like a fishing net, [SPEAKER_01]: Men are the fish and God whose Maya has treated this world is the fisher man when the fish are entangled in the net. [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them try to tear through its meshes in order to get their liberation.

39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They are like the men striving after liberation. [SPEAKER_01]: But by no means all of them escape. [SPEAKER_01]: Only a few jump out of the net with a loud splash and then people say, ah, there goes a big one. [SPEAKER_01]: in light manner, three or four men attain liberation. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but only around, you know, in what we see and to our knowledge, but over lifetimes, all will attain liberation.

40:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the grace of God, it may be anybody in any one can attain liberation. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that, after all these efforts, only three or four will be saved. [SPEAKER_01]: All will be saved, but over many lifetimes. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, some fish are so careful by nature that they are never caught in the net, some beings of the ever perfect class like Narada are never entangled in the meshes of worldliness.

40:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the fish are trapped, but they are not conscious of the net and of their imminent death. [SPEAKER_01]: No sooner or the entangled than they run headlong, net and all, trying to hide themselves in the mud. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't make the least effort to get free. [SPEAKER_01]: On the contrary, they go deeper and deeper into the mud.

40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: These fish are like the bound men. [SPEAKER_01]: They are still inside the net, but they think they are quite safe there. [SPEAKER_01]: A bound creature is immersed in worldliness. [SPEAKER_01]: In lust and gold, having gone deep into the mire [SPEAKER_01]: but still he believes he is quite happy and secure.

41:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Deliberated and the seekers of deliberation look on the world as a deep well, deep illness and dangerous, you may fall in it. [SPEAKER_01]: They do not enjoy it. [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, after the attainment of knowledge, the realization of God some give up their bodies, but such a thing is rare indeed.

41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The bound creatures, entangled in boldiness, [SPEAKER_01]: They suffer so much misery and agony. [SPEAKER_01]: They face so many dangers and yet they will not wake up. [SPEAKER_01]: The camel, another example. [SPEAKER_01]: The camel loves to eat sarni bushes. [SPEAKER_01]: The more it eats the sounds, the more the blood cuscious from its mouth.

41:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Still, it must eat sarni plants and will never give them up. [SPEAKER_01]: The man of world in nature suffers so much sorrow and affliction, but he forgets it all in a few days and begins his whole life over again. [SPEAKER_01]: Suppose the man has lost his wife or she has turned unfaithful, low, he marries again.

42:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember I was a kid before becoming a monk. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember a close relative of ours. [SPEAKER_01]: He lost his wife and to cancer. [SPEAKER_01]: And they were, I think in their 50s or 60s probably. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was devoted. [SPEAKER_01]: So one day I was walking with the head of the monastery there, the old Swami.

42:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I still remember I was a teenager. [SPEAKER_01]: He looked to me and he said, well my boy, this is some sara, [SPEAKER_01]: Now, a year past, two years past, and that gentleman married again in his old age, and those days it was rare to marry twice in India. [SPEAKER_01]: So he felt ashamed and he didn't come to the ashram, and one day I was again walking with the head monk there.

43:12 [SPEAKER_01]: and he inquired after that relative of ours. [SPEAKER_01]: And I told him what had happened. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, almost exactly the same spot two years ago, where we were walking and he told me. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my boy, this is some sorrow.

43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's still remember that. [SPEAKER_01]: So Ram Krishna says, hello, he marries again. [SPEAKER_01]: or take the instance of a mother, are some dies and she suffers bitter grief, but after a few days, she forgets all about it. [SPEAKER_01]: The mother so overwhelmed with sorrow a few days before, now attends to a toilet and puts on her jewelry.

43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: A father becomes bankrupt through the marriage of his daughters. [SPEAKER_01]: Yet he goes on having children year after year. [SPEAKER_01]: In those days when they would have so many kids. [SPEAKER_01]: people are ruined by litigation, yet they go to court all the same, which is very modern, very applicable to America today, there are men who cannot feed the children they have, who cannot close them or provide decent shelter for them, yet they have more children every year.

44:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, another example, the worldly man is like a snake trying to swallow a mole. [SPEAKER_01]: The snake can neither swallow. [SPEAKER_01]: The mole now give it up. [SPEAKER_01]: The bound soul may have realized there is no substance to the world. [SPEAKER_01]: The world is like a hot plum, only stone and skin.

44:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But still he cannot give it up and turn his mind to God. [SPEAKER_01]: I once met a relative of case-up scene, 50 years old. [SPEAKER_01]: He was playing cards. [SPEAKER_01]: As if the time had not yet come for him to think of God, I was at this Interfaith conference. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a very [SPEAKER_01]: charismatic black pastor he was giving a pretty nice talk in in this new year seed this couple of your days back new year series and recovery and so he said.

45:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps we are the first generation to see this phenomenon of grown men sitting with their devices, mobile phones and iPads and all, and playing children's games, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, Pau, Pau, Pau, Pau, Pau, Piu, Piu. [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: This is something that was never there in human history earlier.

45:37 [SPEAKER_01]: A grown-up people playing kids games all day long. [SPEAKER_01]: He was playing cards as if the time had not yet come for him to think of God. [SPEAKER_01]: There is another characteristic of the bound so if you remove him from his worldly surroundings into a spiritual environment, he will pine away.

46:02 [SPEAKER_01]: The worm that grows in fields feels very happy there. [SPEAKER_01]: It thrives in fields. [SPEAKER_01]: It will die if you put it in a pot of rice. [SPEAKER_01]: All remain silent. [SPEAKER_01]: Let us look at comments. [SPEAKER_01]: What that means, Swami, Sweethanji's forefathered met Chaitanya.

46:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure, wasn't Krishna Raskaviraj the next generation, if I remember correctly, he was not a direct partnership of Sri Chaitanya. [SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, next generation, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Buddha saw all his, so he says, Buddha saw all his previous births at the moment of realization.

46:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So does the same thing happen when you get realization? [SPEAKER_01]: But then generally, Yogi Sutras says that it can happen, that all your past incarnations flash before your eyes. [SPEAKER_01]: Not only this life, but your past incarnations. [SPEAKER_01]: This life flashes before your eyes, even for people who have had near-date experiences, they report this, this one life at least.

47:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But enlightened beings, all of the panorama of life [SPEAKER_01]: We should not say, what about a do not resuscitate order, given ahead of time, and we will not to put upon some life support. [SPEAKER_01]: Like cannot be sustained otherwise, would it be considered a form of suicide? [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.

47:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It would not. [SPEAKER_01]: These are new things because of modern medical technology. [SPEAKER_01]: We are [SPEAKER_01]: capable of reviving again and again in old days, such persons would be allowed to pass away. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the giants at the Salle Khanada Hall practice of withdrawing from food and sustenance when the body is sick or terminal illness or old age, unable to perform in spiritual practices, then they would give it up.

47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The final spiritual practice would be to let go of the body. [SPEAKER_01]: But almost like, not almost literally by starvation, but in the process surrounded by spiritual vibrations, by chanting, militativeness, not the struggle of, say, an emergency room in a hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: So in a very spiritual atmosphere.

48:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So it would not be considered a form of suicide. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_01]: I attended a workshop once on DNR. [SPEAKER_01]: So religious leaders, they wanted the support of religious leaders from the hospital, and they were doctors. [SPEAKER_01]: So we are all asked to express our support, DNR is actually a very good thing, and the doctors recommended.

48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Rajendra Parak, he says, Abhidranjan is essay on reincarnation states that there is no regression from human works, animal life is a metaphorical, the next birth. [SPEAKER_01]: person lives like an animal. [SPEAKER_01]: How do you view it in the cycle of births and that's in the metaphor?

48:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean there are different views on this generally the ideas you progress in spiritual life. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's highly unlikely one will digress back into an animal life. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe in some special cases. [SPEAKER_01]: Priya says are some of these discussions just casual, chat and probably not much spiritual message in the Gospel.

49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand the relevant. [SPEAKER_01]: Can you please explain which one? [SPEAKER_01]: Which discussions? [SPEAKER_01]: These are pretty serious discussions, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Life and death. [SPEAKER_01]: And nothing more serious than sweet side. [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, then I think Probir Babu has raised his hand.

49:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a question about Vidyakrishna Gosvami. [SPEAKER_00]: He, by himself, he actually became a very well-known version of preacher, related, I visited the Ashram in Puri. [SPEAKER_00]: So I always wondered, was the Sri Ram Krishna was the, because he was a Brahma when he met Sri Ram Krishna.

49:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was he turned, Sri Ram Krishna turned him towards that path. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do not know the transformation how it happened. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I don't know the details of his life also. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a biography which I had read, but definitely Sri Ram Krishna had the role of a catalyst.

50:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, Vijay Krishna Baba had deep Bhakti, Krishna Bhakti in him, very deep Bhakti, and that was roused and he progressed rapidly in spiritual life, I think in the company of Sri Ram Krishna. [SPEAKER_01]: Priya says, I mean, suicide and mental health of spiritual aspirants, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's true, it's confusing.

50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But one should know that it is also possible. [SPEAKER_01]: You may have suicides, which are actually pathological. [SPEAKER_01]: And you may, there might be a few very rare cases. [SPEAKER_01]: Ram Krishna says, this is a rare thing that person attain enlightenment and let's go up the body and he says, I don't call it suicide, those people.

50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But they are very, very rare. [SPEAKER_01]: and one should certainly not try to imitate them so it might be confusing yes but one should recognize these facts such things are there just as there is physical illness there is also mental illness I and it should be regarded as mental illness.

51:10 [SPEAKER_01]: See the question of mental illness [SPEAKER_01]: In our order, there are two schools of short bodies. [SPEAKER_01]: One is, those who say do not take any kind of psychiatric medicine, do not take drugs and depend only on spiritual practices. [SPEAKER_01]: That is one group and do not depend on psychology of psychiatry.

51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one group. [SPEAKER_01]: Another group means senior swamis. [SPEAKER_01]: Another group says, no, no, no, you are taking the help of physical medicine. [SPEAKER_01]: For when you are physically ill, we should, if there is mental illness, if there is some kind of anxiety or some problem mental, definitely take the help of medicine.

51:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You must take every help possible. [SPEAKER_01]: Goal is God realization. [SPEAKER_01]: Goal is not to take that I will take this kind of medicine. [SPEAKER_01]: I will not take that kind of medicine. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the goal. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the point of it at all. [SPEAKER_01]: You take the help of psychology.

52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Take the help of psychiatry if necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: Since you're taking the help of modern medicine anyway, what's the problem? [SPEAKER_01]: Also, recently, I had invitation very interesting from the American Psychiatry Association, APA, and there was a conference in Washington, D.C. in their headquarters, it's confusing because there's another APA, the American Psychology Association, the two APAs, and they have their headquarters nearby, not too far, in Washington, D.C. and the organizations don't like each other at all.

52:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Psychologists and psychiatrists, the rivals. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, this was the American Psychiatric Association, a very powerful organization of Psychiatric in the United States. [SPEAKER_01]: And they were so welcoming to faith leaders. [SPEAKER_01]: I was that token Hindu presents and there was mostly, there were pastors from various Christian denominations.

52:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So one from Jewish tradition, I think, and one from Islam. [SPEAKER_01]: No one strangely enough from Buddhism. [SPEAKER_01]: So the whole thing was that we have a huge mental health crisis in this country now and actually around the world. [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to get everybody involved.

53:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And they know that in many cases, people go to their pastor, to their church, or to their religious organization, when they're afflicted. [SPEAKER_01]: And they want that the pastor is an also received some kind of awareness training. [SPEAKER_01]: As they said, all spiritual problems are not actually spiritual problems, sometimes they might be mental problems and mental health professionals can help through counseling and medicine.

53:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So, there should be no stigma attached to it, and that's my position as definitely my position. [SPEAKER_01]: Priya says some psychetic is actually Buddhist. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we talked about the burnout among psychiatrists. [SPEAKER_01]: It seems it's gone up. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very high.

53:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We think America is in the largest number of psychiatrists and largest number of lawyers. [SPEAKER_01]: And yet they said there's a short fall of 30,000 psychiatrists. [SPEAKER_01]: The short fall actually is a lack and the psychiatrists themselves are overstressed. [SPEAKER_01]: They were saying.

54:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So my question was, but then psychiatry does not accept religion and spirituality. [SPEAKER_01]: So why are they inviting us? [SPEAKER_01]: And they are answer was very interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, he cannot argue with the data. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, it is no doubt of it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a well-known phenomenon throughout two psychotic psychiatrists and psychologists.

54:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That genuinely spiritual people, religious people who have a deeply religious religion is a part of their life. [SPEAKER_01]: They are on the whole psychological much more healthy than the rest of the population. [SPEAKER_01]: So this data is, you cannot fight against the data. [SPEAKER_01]: Even if I don't accept spirituality and religion, I have to accept the effectiveness of spirituality and religion.

54:52 [SPEAKER_01]: If I have to care for the mental health of people, how can I deny that this is so effective in protecting the mental health of the community? [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a great insight. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much. [SPEAKER_01]: O-chan, Deshan, Deshan, Deshan, Deshan, Deshan, Hari-y-y-o-mthatsat, Sri Ramakrishna Rupana-masthu.