5 YRS AGO NXT ON USA POST-SHOW: More new names after brand refresh, the next step toward Ciampa-Breakker, USA Network’s reaction to changes

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1:35 Now pw torch brings you the wade keller pro wrestling post.

1:40 Show on today's way keller pro wrestling post show for saturday september 19th 2026 we jump back five years to the NXT post-show, PWT Talks NXT from September 21st, 2021. Kelly Wells, Tom Stelp, and Nate Lindberg covered the continued introduction of a large number of new wrestlers and other personalities.

2:04 A step toward Tommaso Ciampa, Braun Breaker, continuing thoughts on USA Network's reaction to the changes in NXT, and more. So, let's get to it. Again, this originally live-streamed five years ago this week.

2:25 Well, aloha, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Kelly Wells. I am the host of PWT Talks NXT. We're going to talk NXT for September 21st, 2021. What are the ratings of this show going to be? I'm very, very excited to see that.

2:45 I got a lot.

2:45 Oh, boy.

2:46 A few weeks ago, I said the sky was not falling, and I'm not so sure anymore.

2:52 There is.

2:54 I expect some growing pains when a whole bunch of people who maybe should not be on TV yet are on TV. Um, I didn't expect some of the specific idiocy creatively that, uh, that we got tonight.

3:11 Um, so, so I don't know.

3:14 Um, it's going to be, I don't know. At times I was losing my mind during the show tonight, but, uh, But we'll see if I'm a little light on it as we go back through some of it. You can email us at pwtorchnxt at gmail.com or you can call us 515-605-9345. I am going to start with some emails because we got four emails and three of them are big picture. Going to be a lot of big picture stuff.

3:45 Last week there was a lot more. But I'm going to start with Those three. And then we will move on to main event time. Zach Barber says, gentlemen, I have to disagree with y'all about NXT's new look. Between the color scheme and brightness, which I think is an overcorrection from the dark NXT and the new seating arrangements, I expected to hear a voiceover at the end of the show tell me that NXT 2.0 has been filmed before a live studio audience at Nickelodeon Studios Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. Seriously, the aesthetic was straight up double there.

4:15 All that was missing was Mark Summers and some slime. Add that to the new talent, which amounted to the 21st century version of the not-ready-for-prime-time players, to borrow a phrase from Saturday Night Live, and I think there could be trouble on the horizon. USA is paying WWE tens of millions of dollars for a hybrid show with up-and-comers mixed with talent with star power that's going to bring in ratings not a bunch of guys and gals that are greener than goose shit learning how to wrestle on a set that looks like it belongs on Nickelodeon on Saturday afternoon in 1992. Do you think there's going to be backlash from the network once NXT's numbers start tanking because people don't want to watch wrestling school? Zach in Texas. Okay,

4:50 lots here.

4:51 Um.

4:52 Let me get this out of the way first. I don't think it looks anything like Nickelodeon. It doesn't matter how much the echo chamber keeps repeating that. I literally never would have thought of it, and that is when I watched Nickelodeon, and I don't think it looks like that. I do like the aesthetic, and I do like it better than the black and gold. Otherwise, I am unfortunately on board with what you're saying. I think that... People are going to reject this. We know that already. I was talking to the guys before the show about the number of people that are usually listening in live on this show, and it is way less this week as we go into this era, although we've picked up a couple since we started. But, yes, I think there will

5:45 be backlash from USA. They didn't pay for this show. And they're going hard into this. And I don't know how much these suits watch wrestling and what they really know. And if they even can tell good from bad. But if they watched this, they would see a lot of really, really shaky talent on screen. There's a lot of stuff that just is not... That just is not ready. And it's funny you say they're not ready for primetime players, Zach, because I thought that same thing over and over when I was watching this show. I really– at times tonight I thought the aesthetic was the only thing I liked about tonight's show because there was some shaky stuff and some of these directions are very bizarre and I also think, though,

6:47 that we are in exposition hell, and when we settle a little bit, it could be a little better. But if we're going to frame guys like Gacy as, like, hated heels because he likes people, or if we're going to frame Zion Quinn as a babyface because he assaulted a guy who wanted to go through a door first.

7:12 I don't know.

7:12 This might get stupidly in a rush. Um, let me read the other two emails and then I'll throw to my dudes. This is from, uh, no, let's go to Steven Murphy. Hey guys, shouldn't this really be NXT 4.0 1.0 was the reality contest with Daniel Bryan season, the women's season with AJ Lee and Caitlin and some other men's seasons.

7:35 Then they kind of drifted into 2.0 with a normal kind of show that wasn't contest based, just normal storylines that filmed before raw or SmackDown. It's really bad. Yeah. It's funny because you could break the Full Sail era into a couple of different rebrands even before this rebrand because it changed wildly a couple of times. This is a silly thing to call 2.0, but that's how they wanted to brand it, and they wanted to brand the hell out of it because– They won't stop singing it.

8:35 David Podnar says, Hello, everyone. Starting tonight fast with a full ring and keeping up a frantic pace for the start of the show. I'm glad at least they are introducing people since more than half the roster seems new. Tonight feels like the real new start as most of the people in focus weren't on TV just a bit ago.

8:50 Along for the ride, Dave Podnar. I like when Dave emails because no matter how bad I'm feeling, he's kind of, He's pro. He's on board. So I'm going to need you more than ever, Dave. Tom Staup, who are you?

9:15 What? Yeah. Oh, hey.

9:16 Yes, I'm at Tom Staup on Twitter. And, man, I was going to work all this stuff into my intro anyway. I didn't realize that I was going to be saying it as a rebuttal to a bunch of emails. But, like, I went into this show– Excited like I for the first time in recent memory in in longer than recent memory, covering this program and staying up to do a podcast about it afterwards doesn't feel like work. And I was wondering if like, yes, I was already positive about it last week and I was already. Framing it in my mind positively and like long awaited.

9:53 Changes before last week.

9:55 But I was wondering if going into this week, seven days removed, the vitriol surrounding it was going to calm down, or if the phrase that you used, the echo chamber, was going to keep it up.

10:08 And that's just me coming from my perspective of thinking that the long needed and good so far.

10:15 I will be quite critical of tonight's program, but not ready for primetime players is what I want from NXT.

10:22 I'm only speaking subjectively here.

10:24 I think NXT has been so cool throughout the years because we get to scout from our couches. That's the novelty of it. And here we are finally doing that again. There were periods during the you know, going up against AEW and just completely tearing apart what NXT was to try to remain competitive when I thought the show was so bad that I was, I don't want to go as far as to say I was hopeful because I didn't really think it was going to happen. But when I saw the reports that they wanted to do an NXT Evolve show to be the developmental for the former developmental show, I was like, okay, if they do that, maybe I can just send an email to Wade and be like, dude, can I switch what I'm covering? Because

11:07 this show is just unbearable right now. And finally, we have what is basically. Evolve, um, back to, back to what got me watching in the first place with a friendly blend of what people had latched onto the ones who, who were watching recently and actually liking it more. Um, and I, I think they're, they're handling that fine. I'll probably, you'll probably hear the term Han Solo rub out of me a lot.

11:36 That's the, you know, the force awakens, um, reference where, you know, uh, We see Rey at the control panel of the Millennium Falcon, and without Han Solo there, fans are going to be like, oh, man, she doesn't belong. But Harrison Ford is literally sitting right there going like, oh, hey, you're pretty good at this.

11:52 So we accept it. And so there are a lot of Han Solo rubs going on here. And I think one of the.

11:59 Most notable things was that when the show opened, Beth Phoenix looks right into the camera and says, you are getting a glimpse of the future. The future is now is gone. Now it's you are getting a glimpse.

12:08 Of the future.

12:09 That's not the branding, but that's what she said. That is completely different phrasing. And that's what I've been missing. It's what I've been wanting. So, yeah, this show tonight, this episode tonight was really rocky.

12:20 But.

12:22 I appreciate seeing where these people are at. It wasn't all a bed of roses in the days that we remember so fondly. Um, but you know, we got to see Leo Kruger and Bo Dallas and Becky Lynch, you know, remember Becky Lynch's first match.

12:38 It sucked, but we all saw it.

12:41 And we're cooler because we saw Becky Lynch's first match on TV.

12:45 And, and here we are finally back to that point. So, so I'm excited.

12:49 And, um, Yeah, I'll just cut myself off there because I don't want to sound like I'm dissing the the emailers. I really appreciate your emails and the the alternate perspectives are.

13:01 Keeping me tempered on it.

13:02 I don't know, keeping me realistic about it, maybe. But then I see the Nickelodeon comparison. I'm just like, oh, come on. What are you are we watching different programs here?

13:11 What's going on?

13:12 I mean, I was excited about this, too. And it's interesting that like I'm my. all the things I disliked about this are not like that. It's developmental. I'm, I dislike this because creatively it was dead on arrival. It was just a mess creatively. And, um, and there's too many things happening. Uh, there's so many lines of script in my notes. Um, And at one point, my biggest question was, does brandy mix with Coca-Cola? And I'll find that out during the show, and I'll let you know.

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14:55 So let's go to another guy who benefits huge from the Han Solo rub because he does a podcast with me and Tom. Nate Lindberg. What did you think?

15:08 Okay, I've been champing at something I learned from you, Kelly. Champing at the bit to start actually talking here because. Yeah, I guess it's still a Nate heel turn time. Um, so I'm going to go back to the first emailer here, um, which was, I think.

15:24 Was Zach Barber. Yeah. Zach Barber. Um, so I basically, this is basically what I was saying last week.

15:32 Um, you know, I mean, I was on board, not on board. I was basically with Zach Barber here. Um, I hated the rebrand. I hated everything about it. I said from the bat, it looked like Nickelodeon and about that echo chamber comment. I thought that on my own and like three other people that I've just shown in to without, they're not even wrestling fans, literally have said to me, that looks like it's 90s Nickelodeon.

15:54 So I don't.

15:55 Necessarily know if it's an echo chamber thing. It's certainly invoking vibes of the 90s in not just wrestling fans, but in non-wrestling fans too. They're just kind of like looking at this as a thing. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't like the new vibe. I don't like the new look.

16:12 I still.

16:14 I guess this week it kind of grew on me a little bit because I guess I'm just kind of like, well, this is what we got. I have to admit, I don't mind the stage area at all. Actually, I think the stage is pretty cool. The Titan Tron or whatever they used to call it. Now, I don't think they call it that anymore.

16:33 That's cool.

16:34 But the rest of the arena, I still don't like. I don't like the aesthetic. I don't like the colors.

16:38 Yeah. Yeah. I'm a little nervous. I said this last week. I'm nervous about the show.

16:44 I don't think that this is the general show that people are going to want to watch. We talked about that last week, too, and that's not the point. That's not what they're trying to do here.

16:55 I get that.

16:56 But it's such a vast departure from the norm of NXT, even how different NXT.

17:06 Was just, you know, in this COVID era.

17:09 Right.

17:09 It's so different than what we are all used to. I really, even though like, you know, I know Tom, like you're on board, this is what you're looking for.

17:18 And that's totally cool.

17:20 I just don't think that's what the general audience is going to look for. I think it's, I think people are going to stop watching, and I think USA Network is probably going to be upset kind of talking into another one of these emails here. They did not pay for– I liked what Zach said. They didn't pay to watch wrestling school. If– like the original NX– well, I say the original NX, the original full-sale NX.

17:49 Supposed to be.

17:50 And when you tuned in, you kind of knew that. It wasn't like they took something that you liked and stripped it down. And rebranded it into developmental. So I think there's a lot of I think there's some resentment there from people.

18:08 I know there is for.

18:09 Me a little bit. You know, we talked about it last week. You know, wrestling is a safety blanket for people. And NXT has been that safety blanket for me for years. And it's now it's different and it's not. so I think there's definitely some resentment there from people just in the overall look of it.

18:27 Now that might change over time. People may just grow.

18:30 With it in, in whatever, but the content of the show is also so vastly different. You know, we're not used to seeing what four squash matches in a row on NXT.

18:41 It's, it's, which is okay. It's fine.

18:45 And again, in the developmental world and, and, you know, kind of original full sale era, that's what we were getting.

18:52 But it's such a vast departure.

18:53 I'm, I'm really, I'm, I'm really wondering what the next like six weeks are going to bring, you know, last week I, I, you know, and I'm not much of a ratings guy, but I looked at the ratings, you know, going into, you know, so coming.

19:06 Into tonight with the ratings were for last week.

19:08 And I know they were up, like it was like 28% or something overall that they were certainly up, uh, comparatively to before the rebrand, I'm wondering how it's going to be tonight. And if people wind up tapering off as the show went on, as you know, we just kind of.

19:24 Got squash after squash after squash.

19:28 Yeah.

19:29 I'm again, I'm, not going to keep just kind of droning on and on about it here we'll kind of get in some other stuff too but I'm I'm not as high on this I want to be I want to be optimistic.

19:42 About it and I would.

19:44 Love to see new people on their journeys here like you know kind of like what Tom's saying I'm totally all for that as well like I that's part of wrestling is you know wrestling is a revolving door of characters so that's always a good thing but I think too much too quick is might be a little too much too quick so yeah we'll keep talking about it as the show goes on I.

20:10 Do agree with you.

20:11 I'm approaching what I said purely subjectively, that I want, quote, not ready for primetime players, and I do like using that SNL phrase here.

20:19 That was a good one from Zach.

20:22 So I agree that while that may be what I want, I'm concerned about the ratings, while also selfishly hoping that it gets moved to Peacock or something.

20:32 But.

20:34 Nate, is that where you're also are you looking at this purely objectively or do you also watch four squashes and you're just like, this isn't the program I want to see?

20:44 I'm just I'm genuinely curious.

20:47 I don't think it's going to be a program I'm going to want to watch week to week to week. Like right now, like I'm all for a squash, you know, like, you know, old school storytelling, building up, you know, whether whether it be a new guy or a monster or whatever, whatever story you're trying to tell, build that character up through squash matches.

21:04 I'm I'm cool with that.

21:06 I don't want to watch four of them every week. So I want them to switch it up a little bit. I'm cool with them using that trope more often than they have been or throwing it in more often.

21:21 But that's– I don't know. That's kind of– it gets boring after a while.

21:28 And with how high– So NXT, even though I know we haven't necessarily liked the breakneck pace of NXT, I think overall people have liked that. So kind of going from that breakneck pace, high energy, where there was a lot of storyline, there was a lot of story development, where a lot of things mattered. Now granted, this is a rebrand, and there's a lot of stories that are just starting.

21:56 I get that. But I don't know if... I want to see that many squashes every week.

22:05 I don't know if the general audience is going to find that entertaining 10 weeks down the road.

22:12 I don't know either. I would absolutely watch four to 12 squashes every week. Um, they get a little boring to recap.

22:22 I am weird.

22:23 Uh, but yeah, I would absolutely watch that many. I was already annoyed that I didn't get to watch a squash by, um, The Roman Colosseum brothers. What are their names?

22:37 The salad dressing bros.

22:40 See, like I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily got bros. Oh, I wouldn't necessarily mind if there was a show like if NXT like and I'm not advocating for this whatsoever, but. Say NXT had two shows. There's now a second show, and there was one show that was like Sunday Night Heat or whatever, and that was all squash matches and whatever.

22:58 And then the main show had more storytelling and longer matches. I'd be all for that, but I don't want to watch the main wrestling show that I watch. I don't want to say I want it to be more– no, I don't want it to be more. more like what we had with NXT the more storytelling long-term storytelling not necessarily with the COVID era but um even a little bit more towards that than what we're what we've got in the past couple weeks you know the kind of COVID era than we're getting is more my where I would like to see like my safety blanket wrestling um I don't necessarily want to see this be it's own brand and I know that's not what they're doing anymore so I don't know I guess it's a bit of a the whole thing is a bit of a letdown

23:49 it's a bit of a disappointment for me this is going from being a a brand back to developmental and I kind of I guess grew to like that brand um I'm still on board with developmental and I I get down with that I'm I'm I'm fine with that and and uh I am excited to watch it don't get me wrong and see these guys come up guys and girls come up but It's also taking away that show that I've gone to every week. That's my one wrestling show. It's not like I'm watching Raw, SmackDown all the time. I've started to watch AEW a little bit more.

24:23 That I've actually watched the past few weeks. But Yeah, squash after squash after squash is not what I want to see in that main product that I focus on.

24:35 Welcome to my entire childhood because that's what wrestling was.

24:40 That is true. That is true.

24:42 We need NXT version 2.0.1 for Nate here.

24:46 And you know what?

24:48 On that, that reminds me, I meant to follow up on, yeah, like you could slice it different ways. This could be like NXT version 5, but that.

24:55 Doesn't send the signal. They're sending a signal.

24:57 2.0 sends that signal like, hey, this is refreshed.

25:01 And for that reason, I do not mind it.

25:04 Yeah, I don't mind it except for the fact that they keep saying it. That could go away. That should have been a one-weeker or maybe zero-weeker.

25:13 And did they or did they not go out before the show and coach the crowd that this is the new chant?

25:19 Oh, absolutely. Oh, they had to have.

25:22 Yeah, because those idiots chanting 2.0 should all punch themselves in the taint. But, yeah, I knew that was going to get to you.

25:34 I was expecting face and not taint. You got me.

25:38 I've been trying to work that in for months. No, I just– it hit me. Oh, take that. Nate did say what I've also been thinking, which is like what's going to make this so hard for people, this transition, is that they didn't just– see the need for developmental because they lost it and make it developmental again. They killed an existing brand that had become something way, way different.

26:11 And basically the closest thing to a consistent good show that WWE produced over the past five to seven years. And it has, it had its ups and downs, but it, Was a consistently good wrestling show for a lot of that time. And that show's dead. It may as well have been canceled because it's gone. And it was here recently.

26:40 This feels like season nine of Scrubs.

26:44 Yeah, that's that's pretty brutal.

26:45 That's pretty brutal. That's what it feels like to me, man. I've tried to revisit. Yeah.

26:49 Well, you know, actually, that is an incredible comparison because they tried to relaunch with a whole new cast and then closer and closer to production. They were like, oh, but people are going to miss Zach Braff. We should bring him back to do a guest spot. Oh, but we really like having Zach Braff around, too.

27:05 So let's have him.

27:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:07 So I actually that is an incredibly good comparison. And they went with the brighter color scheme. and the new sets and everything.

27:14 But, you know, Dr.

27:15 Cox and Turk are still around, even though their relationship has to be different since.

27:19 The cast dynamic is different. But yeah, that. That makes sense.

27:24 I was going to say, like, oh, well, you know, this show, NXT replaced NXT the way that Kelly's saying it did.

27:34 I mean, that's the same thing that happened.

27:35 To WWE ECW with the first incarnation of NXT, although the difference is that that show, by all accounts, was not very good.

27:45 I have seen, I saw every episode of WWE ECW. I jumped on early because I was like, I just want to watch a short wrestling show. And because I was like, I'm not able to fit. I had small children at the time. And I just couldn't fit a long wrestling show in anymore. And I was like, and I kind of like these fringe things that feel a little more punk rock. I just that's that's the way I like things. And certainly it became the establishment in a rush. But it was so easy to digest. And maybe that was because it sucked in a lot of ways.

28:28 But they were constantly trying out new guys. And that I loved. And that's my approach to music as well.

28:36 I never.

28:38 turn on stations that are like the rock music that I grew up with, that all the people my age still listen to. Like, I never turn on comfortable music, ever. I will only turn on a station if I've got a chance to, most of the time, hear a song I haven't heard. That's my approach. But WWE, ECW, it was pretty bad, but.

29:02 Oh, man, there was a 15-minute Ironman match between Jimmy Wang Yang and Shannon Moore and The Miz and Morrison, and I'm not sad I saw it because it was freaking awesome. In fact, those two teams had a feud, and it was all awesome. Okay, well, we took a weird left turn after I said we weren't going to go long. And yeah, Nate's right. There was a lot of squash matches on this show. The third longest match out of seven was Cameron Grimes versus Joe Gacy.

29:33 Let's talk. I love it when you say I'm right. Yeah.

29:37 Well, I mean, I.

29:39 Don't know.

29:40 Don't know.

29:41 I just have to point it out when you say it. It just makes me feel good.

29:45 Believe me, I die inside when I say it. I'm like, oh, I said it aloud. The total wrestling.

29:53 Something.

29:54 No, 2956. Yes, a very small number. And keep in mind that two of these matches went to commercial and the split screen deal seems to be over. So there was like six minutes of that 30 that weren't on TV, six to eight minutes. So, yeah, I got a commercial break during the only two longish matches. And I guess the main was long even by. a lot of weeks in the NXT that we recently lost. Uh, the main, the longest match would be about 12, 13 minutes and your main event, Tommaso Champa and Braun Breaker defeating Pete Dunne and Ridge Holland in 12 minutes and 24 seconds when Braun Breaker pins Ridge Holland. Um, yeah, they're not shying away from Braun Breaker being who he is. Um, But they won't quite explicitly state it. Like last week,

30:58 they said Dogface Gremlin. And then this week, when he did the Steiner Recliner, Beth called it a recliner, as if there were other brands and other types of recliner than Steiner.

31:12 There aren't.

31:14 So, yes. He was doing a Steiner Recliner, and the crowd loved the fact that he did the Steiner Recliner, by the way. I like how smooth and confident Braun Breaker is. I like most of the things about him other than his name. And somebody high-ranking must have named Braun Breaker, because otherwise, that name doesn't survive one week.

31:39 It is horseshit. It's the worst. But what they're doing... with he and Ciampa is pretty decent. I guess we also have to work in that long. As many things went on on this show, my first line of script is the first 15 minutes of show. I said Ciampa and kids, Breaker, then Dunne and Holland. So everyone's brawling in the ring, established and young guys, and it ends up with Ciampa and Breaker in the ring, and they clear the ring of Pete Dunne and Ridge Holland. But somebody didn't get the timing on this right, because then they cut to the women fighting in the back, and then we go back to the guys, and they have Ciampa and Breaker clear the ring of Dunne and Holland again. Like, they basically repeated the spot, which they didn't have to do.

32:40 They could have just gone back to Champa and breaker in the ring. Uh, so they share this moment and a breaker makes a tag team match. And I think it was probably partially to tease, Hey, these guys could feud. Everyone knows this match is going to go down. We don't know when, and we don't know what the circumstances will be. The biggest question now is, um, does Brandy mix with Coca-Cola? But the other one is, does Brown Breaker turn heel before he fights Tommaso Ciampa? And I think that's actually one of the more compelling questions right now on the brand. So Breaker makes the tag match.

33:23 They have the match. Breaker pins Holland after his finisher, and I'm sorry if it had a name, but I don't know it yet. And Ciampa and Breaker... Have a moment, but Breaker does take a good long look at Goldie. He wants to be champ. Insofar that they had to take one of these guys and put them in the main event scene, it feels like they took the right one because he's smoother and more polished than just any of these guys. So I'm interested in everything they do with Braun Breaker, especially when they finally give him a new name.

34:04 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

34:46 of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP.

35:19 Tom?

35:20 Yes, I am very, very interested in what they do with Braun Breaker. However, I will say that for his backstage interview, my only note.

35:28 Is, I like this guy when he shuts his mouth. His talking ain't good.

35:33 That's pretty Steiner. Very Steiner.

35:35 Yeah.

35:36 While at the same time, I feel like the row of new guys that were lined up behind Ciampa, which was very, very stagey. but I'm going to give it a light pass, a light pass because, man, it was so stagey. But it conveys the generational visual. It's such an easy message to the audience visually that is right in line with what Ciampa is doing. This felt like one of his post-house show, post-taping promos when he was in the main event and he stayed out to hype up the brand. And in this case, he's saying so many words to basically be like, hey guys, please don't boo Briggs and Jensen just because they're new. Please don't boo Von Wagner just because he's new. That was basically the whole thing. What I especially didn't like about this

36:25 was that once the cavalcade of interruptions and rebuttals started, happening each new guy that spoke uh gacy jones maybe it was just gacy and jones um but they got cut off way too quickly um and and their lines they barely had anything to work with it's almost like the line was given as of as like this is what you're going to start saying so you can be interrupted by the more experienced guy. And I would have liked to see them have their hands held a little bit less. Um, especially, you know, these are, they picked two guys who have gotten plenty of reps. So, uh, it wasn't like they were asking, um, Brooks Jensen, Ben Buchanan to, uh, to pick up the mic and.

37:07 Do whatever he does with it. I guess we did.

37:08 Get a little bit of a segment of that later that we'll get to, but, uh, but then we get to the main event and, um, Yeah, I enjoyed it because I'm getting to to get a read on this breaker kid. But it is clear that he needs a lot of guidance out there. It just it felt like he and Ridge Holland were having an open conversation for a lot of the match. And it was especially obvious during the cover. And I'm sure a lot of people caught that. But I I definitely saw saw the communication throughout the match to a greater extent than you do in the In matches where somebody in Breaker's position knows more of what they're doing. But when he is told what to do, whether the audience can hear it or not, he executes fairly well. I mean, you know, at least

37:54 for the position that he's, not the position that he's in, but at least for his second week on TV. I mean, you could do a hell of a lot worse than what he's given you. So I think– I'm definitely optimistic about where he's at. And yeah, the feud with Ciampa, I hadn't thought about the potential for a heel turn, which– I don't know. I guess that doesn't really counteract what Ciampa's goals were with the– like reading between the lines what his goals were with the opening promo. Like, hey, don't boo these guys just because they're new. But yeah, that could really– that could really help. I think I might give a, give a green light to a breaker heel turn that could go real well. Um, but I, I think because we're in a refresh of NXT, we

38:47 are looking at Champa as the safety blanket. And, and I mean, that's deliberate. That is exactly what he is here. And so it does lend intrigue even to a guy that we've only seen on two weeks of, of television, like, Hmm, are they going to move the belt? Whereas usually the first challenger after a new, uh, uh, the first challenger of a title run is just like, Oh, okay. They're definitely not winning this, but this one raises your eyebrow a bit.

39:14 Nathaniel breaker.

39:17 Oh, uh, man, do you gotta, uh, anyway. Um, so yeah, Braun breaker, as far as I'm concerned, like I'm, I'm okay with them. I'm like, I'm half, I'm okay with what he's doing in the ring.

39:28 You know, like, like, Tom said, it's clear that he does need some, you know, some guidance and things out there, but you know, obviously he's, he's still very new to the business. It's so, I mean, I'm okay with that. I can kind of give him a bit of a bit of a.

39:41 Buy on that.

39:43 It's the name. I, the name is terrible. It's like chili McFree is bad. Like it's, It should never have been a thing, especially spelled the.

39:53 Way it is. Now, granted, I get his name is Bronson, right?

39:56 So that's whatever, B-R-O-N, but after Braun Strowman, it's just.

40:02 It looks weird. It just looks like you look at it and it just looks weird. I don't know.

40:05 I don't like it.

40:06 I don't like the two K's and breaker. The whole name is terrible. Uh, Rex Steiner is.

40:11 Is awesome.

40:12 Is it, it goes to his lineage. I mean, I get it.

40:14 They probably don't want to call out the Steiner thing.

40:16 It might even be a copyright thing.

40:18 I'm wondering if, you know, the Steiner brothers own the copyright on Steiner and they can't use it for some reason. I, you know, I don't know. Um, but yeah, Man, they got to do something with that name because there's I mean, like Randy Orton, John Cena, Stone Cold Steve Austin. Like, these are all cool names. Like, do you really want to wear a T-shirt that says Braun Breaker on it?

40:42 Right. Or anything like it's just like, yeah, it's weird. I'm not a fan. As far as the match went, I met match concern. I, I did enjoy the match. It was, it was fast paced.

40:58 I liked the way that, that, you know, breaker and, and Holland breaker Holland seemed to definitely have some, some decent chemistry together, even though, you know, a little bit of talking there. I'm just like, I'm really wondering how they're going to position this match between eventual supposed match between Champa and breaker. You know, if it's going to be for the title, I'm almost assuming it's going to be for the title.

41:26 I like, I can't imagine they pull the trigger and put.

41:28 The belt on them, but yeah, I don't know. It's going to be a strange build. It's going to be an interesting build. I don't really have a whole heck of a lot more to say on it. I'm still just kind of digesting most of these changes, I think, at this point.

41:42 Well, I'll tell you what, Nathaniel McFreeze. I think that they're working toward— I like that better than Breaker. I think after I did Nathaniel Breaker, I'm just going to call him his first name and then the last name of one of the guys in every match. But then I realized at some point I was going to have to call you Nathan Jones. And I can't do that to you.

42:03 Well, I mean, you wouldn't be calling me the wrong first name then at that point in there, right?

42:08 That's true.

42:09 Nathaniel's not my name.

42:11 Don't do this to me, Nate, Nathan, Nathaniel. Don't ruin it. Yeah, I don't know where I was going to go with it. I like what Braun's doing. You know what? I just want to say... God, he's got a great belly-to-belly. Really, really good. So looking forward to seeing more of that. So let's go to some other matches. I guess we'll go to the only other long one. Kushida versus Roderick Strong.

42:48 This for the Cruiserweight Championship. This went 859. This was weird in that Kushida's... They put him through another. Segment of just being an afterthought. And he just like, he, he wasn't treated like somebody who was going to even have any chance of winning this match. And Roddy, I get that a championship kind of justifies this being a, a large group. Um, But I just, man, I feel like I've seen all that Roddy has to offer. I really just have. And I've liked so much of him.

43:33 I liked his North American championship reign because he was having good matches with every single type of opponent. And that's great. I just think that he's kind of played out for me. On the upside... I got a chance to see the Creed Brothers and Ivy Nile. I think I'm going to like her. I could be totally wrong about this. But something about her says that I'm going to really like her No BS style. They all got involved.

44:07 This went $ 8. 59, if I didn't say that already.

44:10 This, hmm.

44:13 This wasn't a bad match exactly, but the endgame of it I thought was really bad. You don't have to protect your referee, but if you make him look like this much of a buffoon... it actually kind of reflects badly on the brand and not just the referee. And, uh, isn't a good thing for the heel. Like the heels bring out 2012 different guys and the refs like, you know, I'm going to look at anyone else, but all the people that are dealing with Kushida right now. So it was pretty rough. And the ref, I think it was Brewer gave them a lot of openings and, And it took a couple times before they were like, oh, this is the moment. This is when this happens. But anyway, Roderick Strong, your new Cruiserweight Champion, immediately challenged by Grayson Waller.

45:06 So I don't know if they're going to keep doing the thing with Waller and Drake Maverick. Waller made this challenge and Diamond Mine, I would say rightfully, said that he shouldn't be stepping on the moment for Roderick Strong, although they did all that heelish stuff, so whatever. Did Waller show up one time later in the show? He did, but he wasn't the star of the segment, so we'll save that one. We've got a new Cruiserweight champion, Nate.

45:46 We do have a new cruiserweight champion in Roderick Strong. This is something that I kind of expected that was going to happen really since Diamond Mine was formed. Rumors kind of started swarming around about Diamond Mine really just being.

46:01 There to enhance... Not just really being there.

46:05 Its sole purpose, I guess, or biggest purpose, anyway, was to enhance the Cruiserweight division and get the title on Roderick Strong to do that. So I was kind of expecting that. It's weird because Kushida's reign... It seemed to me like it's just been a cup of coffee, but I looked it up and it was like 155, 157 days, something like that.

46:26 Which surprised me.

46:28 When you're never on TV, it seems like it hasn't been that long.

46:33 Yeah.

46:33 And I mean, even, um, I think it was Barrett made, made a comment to that, you know, like now at least we have a fighting champion.

46:39 Um, yeah. Cause yeah, you like, you just kind of never saw him.

46:42 But granted, yeah, he was dealing with COVID and things like that for a bit, but, but still, um, yeah, we still really never, never saw him on TV. Um, but yeah, you know, I I'm, I'm cool with seeing the belt on, on Roderick strong. Um, you know, especially if we are going to see it and, and you see some more of, uh, some more of diamond mine kind of around the title, um, Roderick Strong, to me, you said it a few minutes ago, you've kind of seen everything Roddy has to offer. I don't dislike Roderick Strong, but he's not.

47:14 A top guy.

47:15 He's, like we keep saying, he's that guy that's always going to go out and he's going to give you a great match, but he doesn't come across as a top guy. And they're trying to push him as the top guy, at least in Diamond Mine.

47:28 And to me, it's just.

47:30 it almost seems it seems too forced uh he doesn't seem like he just naturally fits in that role um you know like the creed brothers for example they naturally fit into the role of that silent enforcer you know in um he rodney just doesn't naturally play that role which is fine you know i'm not that's not a a diss on him or anything it's just not a good i don't think it's a good fit um That said, I think he's doing a halfway decent job with it, with what he's got and the.

47:57 Way he can do it.

47:59 But I'm not– I'm not like– overly excited to see diamond mind every diamond mind, especially Roddy every week, Cree brothers.

48:08 Absolutely. But not necessarily, you know, Roddy.

48:12 And Ivy, I'm thinking I'm probably going to like her too. You know, I really want to see what she's got in the ring. But I think, I think I am going to like her. She's got a great look. She looks like she really belongs with diamond mine. as far as little Grayson wallet thing, I'm, you know, again, we've just a whole bunch of new talent, things like that. I, I like the kid.

48:35 Um, I thought he was pretty good on the mic.

48:37 Uh, a couple of his comeback, like when Bivens, uh, Bivens and strong started talking, he's like, Oh, you gotta consult with daddy or however he phrased it.

48:46 You know, it just, it was cool.

48:48 It was like, just, it almost seemed like it was off the cuff. Probably it wasn't, but it kind of seemed like it might've been, um, And just the overall presentation of his character so far I've, I've, I've liked it's the Drake Maverick stuff.

49:02 I don't know.

49:03 We started seeing him on the main roster and the 24 seven division again. So I don't know if that we're going to kind of see him more on the main roster. I'm kind of concerned about him and keeping his, his job at this point again, especially where he was almost cut last year and kind of worked his way back into a.

49:22 To a job. But I don't know.

49:25 He, he Waller at least mentioned that, Maverick tonight, uh, in the promo. So, uh, at least there's still some sort of acknowledgement that two of them are still together. I feel like if they were going to rip them apart, they would, he wouldn't have even mentioned his partner, uh, Derek Maverick. He just would have came out and stated his intent to go.

49:46 After the title.

49:48 So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm okay with it. It was, it was very predictable for me. I really didn't see Roddy losing this. And if he did, I figured it was going to be, you know, some sort of interference type of a loss and you know, he'd win it at the next like big show or next week or even but I think this is the way they needed to do it. All of diamond mine got involved during the match. So yeah, it kind of builds some added heat for them. And you know, I don't think really a lot of people, you know, I mean, obviously you don't want to see the baby face lose, right. So kind of get some added heat for him there and some added heat for diamond mine. Overall, like I said, I'm, I'm, I'm okay with it. But I, I, I just want

50:33 more out of Roddy and I don't know if he's capable of, of producing what I think is, They either want out of him or what they need out of him to make this success that they might want it to be, or at least in my perception anyway, the success that I'd like to see it be.

50:53 If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us to others. Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank you so much for listening.

51:15 I didn't want to bring this up anymore, but like, I'm still so annoyed that they got rid of Tyler rust, that it casts a Paul over every single diamond mine segment to me. Like it's still for me, the worst of all the firing. It just absolutely the worst at with Mercedes being very, very close behind, um, or right there.

51:35 I just, I, it ruins every segment for me because I'm always thinking about that. Um, Bivens is with me, I think, because he has liked every one of Tyler's rare tweets, uh, since he left, uh, top.

51:54 Uh, yeah, I don't, I don't share the passion, but I agree that that was the most questionable. Well, no, I, I know Killian Dane, but of that, of his round, Tyler rust. Indeed. I, and I had, I had my comments on the Mercedes Martinez issue when it, when it happened.

52:11 Um, So what do I have here?

52:14 The diamond mine still has a laughable element at the center of it, but I think they are compensating for it with a good entrance. The sound effects, so many entrances have sound effects at the beginning of them that are trying to replicate the broken glass. But this sound effect, I think, is good, especially when it's followed by The whole stable just sauntering out like it's this take no prisoners image with with Bivens there with his big grin and and Wade Barrett on commentary saying.

52:47 He only takes big money matches.

52:49 That's what he's looking for for his clients. And that was something that I said was laughable before because it's about the thing at the center.

52:59 Roderick Strong, which. Yeah.

53:03 But when commentary saying it and not Bivens, it's easier to stomach and they're putting over his thing and it contextualizes his onscreen character lends to the managerial role. I was on board with that this time. Match was solid. Now they've got a belt to legitimize the stable. The creeds will have the tag belt soon enough. And I'll just cross my fingers that we can kind of all quietly agree to forget the cruiserweight belt was ever a thing because it doesn't matter. And just like let Roddy retire it just like one week. He won't be wearing it anymore.

53:36 It'll be fine.

53:37 But, yeah, it's it's all of that is agreeable. But it's still just like Roddy is your guy for this.

53:45 I mean, I don't know. What is that? That's the that's the seat.

53:55 When the force awakens just leaned into frame and he literally like waves like, Hey, I'm still here too. And that's his only thing in the whole movie. And it's like, yeah, you know, that's, that's actually okay. Um, and, and Waller, Grayson, Grayson Waller, I don't have both names. Oh, Grayson Waller.

54:11 There it is. Um, I thought he acquitted himself.

54:14 Well, um, he's definitely not doing an Austin Powers thing, but when he said his own name, it was a little bit of, you know, he, he, he teed up the sentence and then he went, And Grayson Waller. And I was half expecting like a baby.

54:28 Yeah. Afterward. So for whatever that that's worth.

54:33 But yeah, I thought I thought he did well enough here that if there was any little part of me, which I don't think there really was.

54:40 But if there was any really any little part of me that.

54:43 Was like, yeah, let's watch this guy fall on his face like I am when Trey Baxter's out there.

54:49 I've just I've picked.

54:51 A new punching bag. I don't think he I don't think Trey Baxter really deserves it, but.

54:55 He doesn't at all. But it's still funny. Like, I love him and you punch him so hard and I'm like, I'm not mad and I can't figure out why.

55:05 Sorry, he'll be a superhero soon enough.

55:08 I know I'm going to be punching him then.

55:12 But, yeah, I thought that he did well enough here that even in this post-title win moment and even, you know, challenging the champ for.

55:20 Next week, I was like, you know what? Cool. I'm looking forward to it.

55:23 And I don't feel like it's pedal to the metal too fast there.

55:27 We've got.

55:30 I at risk of going long on this one point, but it's a point point that I could make about many other things.

55:35 There are there's a.

55:36 Like one half of the storylines that are being told, like B-Fab and Elektra or I don't know, another one where the names aren't coming to me right now. But it's like, OK, they could have done the match this week. but they're doing it next week.

55:48 Okay.

55:48 They could have said the matches next week, but they're, they're not announcing anything yet. So they're not doing the pedal to the metal thing with a lot of their stuff, but they're, then there's other stuff like this where it's like, you know what? I think I'm actually okay with that. And the, uh, the, the women's tag team championship match, like, okay, yep.

56:05 Booked for next week. I'm like, you know what?

56:08 I think in this situation with so many new people, if this is their introduction, that's, that's going to work for me.

56:15 It's a, it's all part of the balance. All right.

56:19 We do have a caller on. That is Darrell. Of course, he was already on, but he didn't have the question thing. And I was like, I'm surprised, but we'll see if he jumps on, if he adds a question, if I don't go straight to him. That did indeed happen. Darrell from Georgia. How are you feeling tonight?

56:44 Can you guys hear me?

56:46 I can now.

56:49 How you guys doing tonight? I had you guys on in the background playing for a second, and then I had started doing something I had forgot, because I had forgot I was even watching the show for a little minute. I'm sorry. Well, tonight's show. I have to give it two more weeks and then I have to, I might have to bow out. I know we say, I'm just saying revamp, but this is more like a, are they trying to red cut some stuff and look like this is a restart or what happened when you have a movie franchise and then you try to redo it over again and start a new, something like that. So, This is... I don't know about going backwards. Before I get into any type of rant or anything, I'll ask a question, and it's a two-parter.

57:58 The best thing I used to like was about Hit Row and Legado de Fantasma, and I know they're trying to hype up the ladies, and I'm liking that portion, I'm liking what they're doing with that, and I hope they'll keep pushing this out and out until you can have some type of war games fashion, maybe. If you can even get a takeover with how they're doing this right now, but that's another story. And have something like that.

58:27 Would you guys like to see this keep continuing to get pushed off, pushed off, and you keep involving everybody and maybe do some type of war game type of match on television or something?

58:38 Yeah.

58:38 How would you guys like the experience?

58:44 Oh boy. We were talking about this being a War Games match as recently as a few weeks ago. Maybe not even a few. But it sure seems like we're in a different world now. It's harder to imagine TakeOver. TakeOver existed at a time when this was the regular show.

59:05 But I mean, early days.

59:10 Like, Enzo Amore versus Sylvester LaFleur was on TakeOver. There was a Mojo Rawley enhancement match on TakeOver. That stuff happened. And so we might still get TakeOver, but if we do... It's going to be different, and it doesn't feel like this is the version of NXT that would have a WarGames match. I just don't know what to expect there.

59:46 As far as what they're doing with Hidro and Legato, it's nice, but it doesn't seem like with all the people they're trying to give. You know what this show felt like today? was the movie Batman and Robin. They tried to give, like, 15 people starring roles, so as a result, nobody's got one. And so it's just like, it's comfortable in a way, but it still feels, like, weird and detached and bloated.

1:00:22 That's kind of the way I felt. As far as trying to get there with Electra Lopez and B-Fab, it's... A mixed bag. We had Elektra Lopez versus Anna Shear. Anna Shear, kind of a fun bump machine. I feel like I could really like her in that role. Elektra almost dropped her leading into her finisher, and that was a little bit scary. I got this clocked at exactly 90 seconds. Lopez, of course, goes over. She gets a little mic time. Santos Escobar tees her up first. It feels like everybody's got their... their mentor there. And, uh, and for her, it's, uh, I mean, she, she hit the jackpot because Santos Escobar knows what he's doing out there. Um, so they got a little bit of mic time and then we went to a brawl and then basically all

1:01:21 the men turn heel. Uh, if, I mean, those who aren't already because they hold back the women, um, B fab acts like she's not going to attack, uh, And then, of course, attacks again. Yeah, so it's– if this is to be a developmental show, then right now the women of this particular– of these two particular factions are the ones that need– the most development because all the guys from Legato are ready. Um, Santos would never need a bit more seasoning. Uh, you could get a little further with the other guys, I suppose, but I like what they're doing as a tag already. Um, I don't know exactly how to attack the question other than that.

1:02:13 Uh, Tom, would you say that there are a bunch of rookies who are paired with pros, uh, Oh, my.

1:02:21 There we are. I don't really have much on this.

1:02:28 Anna Shearer is Tesha Price, and Electra Lopez is clearly a work in progress.

1:02:34 Okay. That's literally what I wrote. Clearly a work in progress. Okay.

1:02:40 I like that Hit Row and Legato and Diamond Mine are factions that have added a female contingent.

1:02:50 Really early on in Undisputed Era. We were... suggesting that they might add that. Was that.

1:02:58 Yeah, we thought that they might add Tynera Conti when she was having a brief little feud with Nikki Cross that didn't... You know, still insanity Nikki Cross that didn't really get paid off.

1:03:10 But yeah, I think.

1:03:12 I think we got our answer as to whether they'll do an intergender war games last year when we thought that that would happen between the way and whomever the way was feuding with at the time.

1:03:24 I don't remember. And, uh, wasn't that what it was, whatever it was.

1:03:28 Well, I feel like we got that answer last year and I feel like the landscape has not changed enough to change that answer. Also, uh, I don't think it like if we are going to get another takeover or if they change the name, they shouldn't call it Meltdown because that's dumb. But Meltdown is the name that, as to my knowledge, has never been used. And I've always had it in my life ever since I was a teenager.

1:03:50 I was like, if I made a pay-per-view, I would call it Meltdown because it sounds kind of cool and it's not taken. Most importantly, because it's not taken. Some indie show probably used it. But but they shouldn't call it that. But they might call it something different and everybody will freak out.

1:04:04 But who cares?

1:04:07 Will probably still build to something. But my point is that it will still take place in the performance center where they have, they made the decision as part of this redesign to tear down their ceiling cage structure thing.

1:04:22 So you would.

1:04:23 Think that with November coming right up, if they were planning on continuing the war games tradition, uh, then they would have left that up.

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1:05:10 Okay. Nate, you know, that's a good point.

1:05:23 Um, I, you know, I didn't even really start thinking about like war games and things like that. Not even takeover, not even existing anymore as a possibility.

1:05:33 Uh, like that kind of broke my brain a little bit. I'm not going to lie. Like I just kind of assumed like.

1:05:38 Oh yeah, we're still going to get takeovers and things. It just might be a little bit different, but like, I didn't even think of it as a possibility isn't going away.

1:05:44 So like, yeah. Okay. Um, I don't have a whole lot either on these two. Essentially, I think that's.

1:05:54 Exactly why they put both of these women with these stables, kind of rookies with pros.

1:06:00 It kind of makes the most sense. They are clearly works in progress.

1:06:05 However, both of them have– well, when I say both of them, I'm talking B-Fab and Elektra Lopez– They both have enough charisma to be on TV anyway and be actual working gears, working cogs of these particular stables. But yeah, they definitely need some work in the ring. Electra Lopez, I think, was a little bit more passable than B-Fab, but clearly needs some work.

1:06:38 But I like her look. I like her on the mic. She, she looks like she belongs with legato. Um, I, but she definitely needs to have that, you know, her in ring work step up, uh, in order to really look like she, she belongs there. Same thing with BFAB. Um, but, uh, you know, as far as the characters both go, they, they certainly belong. Um, yeah, I don't have a whole heck of a lot more to add to this.

1:07:04 Uh, just kind of, uh, kind of, yeah, just a couple of my couple, two cents there, my 2.0 cents, I guess.

1:07:11 There you go. I liked that she waited for the bell and then just kind of lazily took off her entrance jacket. That was my favorite thing she did. Hopefully that finisher comes together more cleanly next time because it was scary for just a millisecond there. Darrell, go ahead.

1:07:35 Okay.

1:07:36 And, yeah, my next thing, we'll be getting into maybe this. We'll see it take over for a long, long time. And it's over. I know we're talking about rebrand, restart, whatever. And, Kelly, I know you brought up one of the matches that was on the takeover before about Mr. Real One himself.

1:07:59 But.

1:08:00 I don't even think we can even start. This has digressed further than even the first takeover because I don't even think they can even give you three good matches like what you had on the first takeover, like Cesaro or Sami Zayn with the first match. Depayne versus Emma, which really started bringing it. um people to start looking at the women's division and stuff like that um the true start to um the women's revolution that match right there are the ladder match that you had with uh adrian neville and mo dallas so you know i just hate how this had me feeling because My favorite wrestler, everybody know I've been waiting on her to come to this side over the pond for a while. Katie Ray and she has a squash match that really don't do

1:08:56 justice with what made her into the best heel in the game. that I was saying for a long time because she was more in longer matches and storytelling. The pro on tonight from toxic, whatever, that was bad. Amanda Rose has been in the game for almost six years, going on seven. And if they're going to have them other two problems behind her, I hate to see where they would go. I'm just confused and don't know what I should do with this show. after been following it for so long and knowing what they had in the past and how they have digressed way past that. And to top this question off, and I know Tom was stating that it's good to see people who are not, you know, not ready for prime time. And I don't

1:09:53 mind seeing people who are not ready for prime time, but I don't even know what it means. with the booking and how they're doing it, which don't even match what they did, just going back to when Johnny H was running everything and he was picking bikini models and stuff like that. And they had that horrible developmental time that they had all those years. Could you see a takeover just off of the first two episodes in a long time coming out for this?

1:10:27 So.

1:10:28 It depends on when that takeover is supposed to be. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no plan right now, like nothing hard in place for when there will be a takeover, because with all the changes on both sides of the camera, I assume that they are. That's just a play it by ear. I do think there will be more takeover, but they absolutely, as I said before, they're in exposition hell right now. They've got to figure out who some of these guys are. They've got to figure out which ones are going to step forward and which ones aren't. We are once again in an era, like Tom and I know, like NXT eight years back, where it's sink or swim and a lot of them sink uh there was it got to a point where they'd only put somebody on tv if they thought they

1:11:20 were going to make it that's not what they're doing right now there are some of these here who are not going to make it that are not ever going to see the main roster um or or get close to it or be pushed on this show uh so it's It's definitely a different time. Kaylee Ray goes over Amari Miller in a buck 35. Amari Miller got a brief inset interview and I thought acquitted herself. Well, I thought it was funny that Amari Miller was kind of okay on the mic. And then the one who they gave a talk show next week, Lash.

1:12:01 Oh boy.

1:12:02 Lash Legend was not good on the mic. She was very stagey, and she sucked. But whatever. Kaylee Ray beats Amari Miller in a minute 35, and then what else did we– okay, Toxic Attraction is the name of that group. So more or less what I said in my recap is– Toxic Attraction, I think, is actually a great name.

1:12:35 From a company who gives a lot of bad names to factions, I think this one's good. And the pieces look good on paper, and this promo was decent on paper, but Dolan and Jane are still working their way up, and Mandy Rose's ceiling... for mic work is extremely low. I don't know what the other two girls gain from this, because you're not going to sit under the learning tree of Mandy Rose, who's, oh man, I have so many mean things to say, but she's just not good.

1:13:19 And I.

1:13:22 Don't understand what they're gaining from this segment, uh, from this, uh, grouping, but I do like that creatively for all the things that are kind of messy on this show right now, toxic attraction creatively is one of the better things. Uh, the, the two young ones, uh, Gigi and JC did challenge Io Shirai and Zoe Stark, uh, for the tag team championships.

1:13:54 We will get that next week on a show where we actually get three championship matches, which seems a little odd in this, uh, brave new NXT time.

1:14:06 So toxic traction, similar, you know, you know, I don't share the, uh, overwhelming overarching to the, the, uh, correct.

1:14:19 How about the deep defaults?

1:14:21 Default negative negativity there the default negative negativity regarding mandy rose but i think regarding this uh segment we're in similar places because the presentation was aces like Normally the entrance and then a commercial break and then the segment irks me because it's just a really awkward way to do things realistically, even though I understand why they do it.

1:14:48 It's a weird way to present it.

1:14:51 But when you see that entrance and you see those women wearing what they're wearing, sorry, but it's true, and.

1:14:59 Then they cut to commercial, it's like, hmm. You know what? I think I'm going to stay tuned.

1:15:03 I think I think I'm not going to say why, but I think I'm interested in seeing what's next.

1:15:07 Yeah. Yeah. And then Mandy speaks. And it was so flat.

1:15:12 Like, I'm probably it's just because it's like my main talking point with her that she was my favorite on her season of Tough Enough.

1:15:20 And I really appreciated how she.

1:15:23 Consciously played a heel character to show that she could do it because she was well aware of the fact that this is a TV show and that, you know, that's, that's how to make it to the finals.

1:15:32 And she made it to the final four.

1:15:34 Um, I, I enjoyed her on that show for that reason in the context of that show. But I wrote down that if I remember correctly, she did better stuff than this on tough enough.

1:15:45 That's, that might not be true.

1:15:46 That might be an overstatement again, context of that show and everything. She was up against, uh, zz and you know a.

1:15:53 Couple of other powder puffs who never oh my god yeah yes.

1:15:57 That is that is the correct that is the correct response um and then the microphone goes over to gg and i'm like okay here we go prove something to me and give the mic back to mandy this was terrible as she was like this hey again starting point i'm not gonna like slap it down and say, don't come back, you know, don't take the mic again. This is, this is the starting point. Hopefully she can grow, but she was just like growling into the character. And you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of, um, and even for Futurama fans, this might be a deeper one, but the, the episode, uh, 2d blacktop, uh, I have not seen I still have not seen the movie that that is a reference to. But the professor joins a

1:16:42 street gang and each member of the gang has like their issues as to why they joined a gang. And the main one that he latches on to has daddy issues. And the reason why is because her father, she says, well, there was a lot of unspoken verbal abuse. And the whole thing, the whole arc that this one episode character goes on is a pastiche of like these family recovery arcs. Um, you know, a pastiche of something that you might see on the lifetime channel. And just, she says it, it's, she says it multiple times throughout the episode. Like, well, when I was growing up, there was a lot of unspoken verbal abuse. And, uh, that's, that's what Gigi reminded me of here.

1:17:21 Um, And then and then J.C.

1:17:25 Is the one who's been making the strangest micro choices with her character. Like she's she's one of those people that like I saw her in that battle royal last year and looked her up and was like, hey, I think there's, you know, how much can you judge from getting thrown out like second or third in a battle royal and then scrolling through an Instagram page? But, you know, she gets booked by a lot of indies in central Florida.

1:17:47 She's held a lot of titles in central Florida. Maybe there's something here.

1:17:51 I'm optimistic.

1:17:52 And then she's doing all these weird mannerisms and everything in, you know, what they've shown us so far.

1:17:59 And I thought she was the best one here.

1:18:00 She was the one that sounded, you know, relative to the other two, the most natural and had the most of substance to say.

1:18:08 So, yeah, presentation was great.

1:18:10 And then they started talking. And thankfully, JC was the final one because it was the most pleasant memory to leave us on. But then speaking of leaving us, then, like– just the awkwardness of like, okay, because this is a TV show and we're going to cut to a different segment where you're still on the TV, stay in your spot. And so they all just awkwardly stand there for a long amount of time while the crowd is just watching them awkwardly stand there until finally the TV screen fades out and we get.

1:18:41 To hear from EO and Zoe. And yes, no.

1:18:45 Pedal to the metal, please, but it's been a while. I want some further development.

1:18:50 On EO and, uh, and Zoe.

1:18:52 This is like the storyline that I'm personally most invested in. I liked that they were still working it last week, even though they were just a wedding guests, but they were still working it a little bit, but there's been no progress ever since Zoe tried to learn Japanese. And that was like over a month ago now, I think, um, So, yeah, and then who was it? It was Persia Perota, if I'm saying that even close to correctly, who approached them, I think. So, yeah, all right. Oh, I forgot there were like three other things. Kaylee Ray, I like the presentation so far. I'm all thumbs up on how Kaylee Ray is being presented. Actually, it was I had this thought several other times throughout the show, but it was

1:19:34 specifically during the Kaylee Ray match that I thought like, oh, this is this is really kind of similar to what I've seen of NXT UK. And go figure with with her. I'm sure they did a lot of.

1:19:43 Squatch matches.

1:19:44 Well, I know I saw a couple, but, you know, I'm sure they did plenty of squash matches with her over there. It seems like every time I tune in, I'm seeing a squash match for Mako or for Kaylee when she was there or for Aoife or whoever.

1:20:01 And the other. Oh, boy. What was the general point?

1:20:06 I had something on that, too, but I'm sure I'm sure I probably mentioned it in several of the other times I've opened my mouth tonight.

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1:21:02 I am.

1:21:03 I want to say things and respond to some of this, but I just dislike so much of it.

1:21:09 It was fantasy booking takeover. That is one.

1:21:12 All I wanted to say was that that is one that actually would be fun to think about right now. Like every other time we get asked, like, oh, so what do you think is going to be on takeover? Every time it's like, I should probably think about that before we go live. It feels like a chore, but I've enjoyed it. What these episodes are giving me what I've been looking for from this television program enough that being asked that question now, no, I don't have an answer for it off the top of my head. But it's a fun prospect to think about, like, ooh, based on what they're doing, what would be on a big show leading up to this? I do kind of want to sink my brain into that. So so if that's an answer for you, at least.

1:21:50 So yes, I, I was stunned that JC came off best here. Um, and she did for me too, because a few weeks ago I wasn't on the show and I was like, I'm so glad I wasn't because I thought her backstage segment, um, not even backstage, but just like a vignette was the worst thing that I'd seen on NXT in a very, very long time. Um, and she did pretty well here, uh, by the, you know, lofty standards set by, um, by Mandy and Gigi. Um, I, Gigi by far my favorite of these three, uh, overall to this point, but, um, but I thought that JC did a pretty good job here. Um, something else I was going to respond to, but I forget the thing.

1:22:42 So, um, Unspoken verbal abuse?

1:22:48 Yes, I get every part of that reference. I was going to say that at the time. I do indeed get that reference. That isn't what I was going to say it was going to be about. I think I was just going to say EO and Zoe, it seems like there was probably a lot more in the works then, and it's not in the works now because it fell behind the.

1:23:14 I think a lot of things that were supposed to happen probably were changed because of the wild change to this show.

1:23:23 I believe, for instance... If Carmelo Hayes is the.

1:23:26 Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. That we are supposed to be talking about women's champion Dakota Kai because that storyline only, only made sense if Dakota won at the end. And now she's not even on TV. Like, literally, the best... Overall, the woman they have right now is not on TV. It's driving me crazy. Sorry, Tom. Tom, you've talked.

1:23:55 No, it didn't make sense on a three-week build, but I appreciate where you're coming from. And yes, they were planting the seeds much, much longer than that, but it just didn't feel like the moment.

1:24:04 It was way longer than a three-week build. That was in place for months. Like with her stepping behind– yeah, with her being stepped over by other challengers, that was a longer build than three weeks by far.

1:24:20 Yeah, it needed more time. Well, a lot of things on NXT need more time, so that's not exclusive to that.

1:24:26 Oh, yeah, no doubt.

1:24:28 But yeah, you mentioned that about Zoe, and I'm like, well, shoot, do you have a point there? Because Zoe was getting the EO rub, but now we're at a point where Carmelo Hayes is the pro to trick Williams' rookie. So what does that make Zoe Stark?

1:24:47 Right.

1:24:48 Yeah.

1:24:49 What's any of this, Tom? What's any of it? Nate, go ahead.

1:24:55 All right, so you guys talked about a lot of stuff there. The original thing we were talking about was Gigi Dolan, Jay-Z, Jane.

1:25:01 And Mandy Rose, correct?

1:25:04 Sure, why not?

1:25:06 Okay, I'm just double-checking.

1:25:08 So, yeah, I don't have a whole heck of a lot to add on this from what you guys said because I feel– in the same boat. I think Gigi Dolan is certainly my overall favorite, but she definitely did not deliver on the mic either. Mandy, she's okay. expected her to be tonight, but that's not saying much. JC definitely came across as, as the overall best on the mic, which, which did kind of come across as a little surprising to me too. Just, I think mostly because a, I put a little bit more on Mandy considering she's been on the main roster for so long.

1:25:48 She should know better by this point.

1:25:50 And be like, I just, I look at Gigi Dolan, you know, former Priscilla Kelly, like yeah, I think is, is more of a veteran than, than maybe she actually is.

1:26:00 I'd have to actually look back at, at, uh, uh, her bio again.

1:26:04 But, um, but anyway, uh, regardless, yeah, I, I, I like the act. I really like the name toxic traction. Um, yeah, like you said, Kelly, that a lot of times, a lot of these names have been, oh, oh, so fantastic Viking experience.

1:26:21 Um, undisputed era. I mean, like people give it a pass because they were huge, but it's terrible.

1:26:28 Yeah, I mean, it's not good. It's definitely not good. But I do like toxic attraction for this group. It certainly works. But, yeah, I don't have a whole heck of a lot more to add on that. There was a couple other fleeting thoughts that I had while you guys were rambling about other stuff. And, of course, they don't want to make a reappearance in my brain anymore.

1:26:47 So whatever. We'll move on. All right.

1:26:51 We'll go to one more from Darrell because we're not trying to go two hours and 23 minutes like last week.

1:26:59 I understand that. Tom and, yes, Mandy was runner-up in her season to Sarah Lee, who made it a whopping 13 months before she got released from her contract.

1:27:16 Yeah. Her and the Yeti. Mm-hmm.

1:27:20 But my final question for you guys tonight, and, um. This will be– they only have one title on this show since they're going back for developmental and maybe not even have tag team titles or maybe one champion, one male champion, one woman champion, or maybe not even champion and just people just fighting for all rights because I don't think none of the titles mean anything nowadays. Even if you're trying to put it out there, having Tommaso come out there with the rah-rah, please don't boo, help us out, speech and stuff like that. Do you think they should just downgrade it to no titles at all?

1:28:07 I know y'all saying that about the Cruiserweight title, but I feel that way about all of them as of right now.

1:28:14 That's a really interesting question because, again, Tom and I are going through a time where there are very few championships. They got the men's singles championship out of the way relatively quickly, and then the tag championship followed, and finally they got around to the women's. And, you know, I'd like to hold them accountable for that, for taking so long, but they didn't have all that many women. Um, so I guess maybe that they can kind of get away with that. Um, On any wrestling show, the championships are a prop, but on a developmental wrestling show, they're absolutely more of a prop than anything. I would say I could live with them going to no championships other than the fact that anything... If they give away all the championships,

1:29:14 then it becomes even more obviously minor league to casuals than it was before. And I think that they would absolutely tune out of a show that that had no. championships on it because I think people expect to be able to watch a show with stakes. And yes, the stakes of this show now are who makes it to WWE. Um, they're not who runs NXT. It's, it's who makes it to WWE, uh, which makes it fun in a way.

1:29:54 And to me also, uh, too bad because I think Ron Smackdown are mostly not good. And when they get there, I don't watch them anymore for the most part. So that's too bad. But, um, but that's not the stakes that people expect. They expect the stakes to be right there in front of them. Um, championships props held by these characters that they're invested in. And I would say I could live with, uh, most or all of the championships going away, except for the fact that their tenuous hold on USA, I think would become much worse if they were to do something like get rid of all the belts, Nate.

1:30:39 Yeah, I, it's, I'm kind of like, I'm torn because on one hand, I wouldn't mind if they did kind of strip back on some of the titles and just kind of focus on one and more story building and things like that. But again, at the same time, it goes back to what I said kind of at the top of the show. You take this brand that had all of these established titles and storylines and stars and things like that and now start stripping it back. And I think it would be– I just think it would be a bad look in a lot of the eyes of the fans. I know for me, if they were to do that, it would kind of– almost make the show feel like two or five live.

1:31:26 Uh, or, or something like that.

1:31:27 Just kind of a much lesser show than what I think NXT is even supposed to be. Um, it's not nearly as, as, uh, it's not a third brand. Like it was anymore. It's still, it's, it's a lesser show at this point. Um, But I don't think they want it to be like a D show like 205.

1:31:47 Live or anything like that. So yeah, I don't know.

1:31:52 I don't think I'm necessarily on board with it. I think I would rather have them kind of stick with what they've got. I could maybe see retiring the Cruiserweight title, like Tom kind of alluded to earlier in the night, because it's just– the title hasn't felt important for a long time. And even when it did feel important, it was, it was a brief cup of coffee that it felt important.

1:32:19 So yeah, I, I could see them maybe doing away with that, but otherwise I think they should kind of leave things alone, at least in, at least in the immediate future to kind of at least, you know, keep that perception up that it's, it's not a D show.

1:32:39 Yeah.

1:32:42 So this will surprise absolutely no one who hasn't heard me say it before, but like I watch as a as from the fan perspective, I watch wrestling TV for the storylines and the drama and the characters and I watch the pay-per-views for the wrestling. So, um, sometimes it's weird to me to look at NXT at any era of NXT and like, this is my show of choice.

1:33:14 It's the wrestling show I most identify with in my life. It's, it's, you know, my favorite wrestling show. And I'm like, this is very wrestling oriented. It's really kind of weird that I, that I like this show so much since, you know, like we talk about, you know, Kelly, you mentioned the wrestling minutes and stuff like that.

1:33:30 And like, it, it's, To me, that is neither here nor there.

1:33:34 When I hear 29 Wrestling Minutes tonight, I'm like, that's fine. I was engaged in the segments and I didn't notice, um, that there was, there was less because that doesn't matter to me.

1:33:44 I'll look for the wrestling at the, at the big show.

1:33:47 And I think the key to that is just the, you know, I mean, over a hundred year history now of professional wrestling, having that prop that you're fighting for, even when there isn't a personal issue, even when there isn't some, you know, poetic Champa versus Gargano, uh, epic that they're, that they're weaving, there still is that symbol that Of what they're fighting for, even if we know and even if like in the in the eight years ago when they would openly say there was a Kruger versus Woods, they did recently and on commentary, they explicitly said that WWE higher ups were closely watching the match.

1:34:27 And they I don't think they use the word call up, but they were basically saying.

1:34:30 Saying like, yeah, these guys.

1:34:32 Are close to moving up to the main roster is basically what they were laying out.

1:34:36 And we know that's what they're fighting for.

1:34:38 And they even when they introduced the NXT championship and they had those really, really good video packages with Cena and Ziggler and I think Booker T and other people like talking about what the NXT championship meant. That's what it came down to. Like, this is the symbol that you are on the stepping stone and like you're going to be the next champion. big thing we know all that even if they don't tell us so do you need the prop theoretically no but i think you need the prop i think that that is really it's essential um and something you said reminded me of something else durell brought it up and i've heard this the whole like the John Laurinitis is, is back in on talent scouting. And, and these, this is the kind of thing where it's like,

1:35:23 you know, however many months from now I might kick myself for having, having naysayed. But I just, I don't think we are on the verge of going back to bikini models because the wrestling landscape has changed enough that fans demand more out of the wrestling up and down the card.

1:35:44 I don't, I genuinely don't know.

1:35:47 The fan approach to WWE and AEW is so different and what fans are willing to criticize or see for the writing on the wall or whatever is so different that I don't know.

1:36:01 If if we did go back to.

1:36:04 Bikini models and them not getting many wrestling minutes and so on and so forth, like even when Ivory is trying to carry him or even when Paige is trying to get her stuff in our would we be on the verge of another give divas a chance hashtag or would it just be like. Well, whatever, because, you know, Britt Baker only gets a few minutes on on Dynamite anyway.

1:36:28 I don't know. Maybe that's a bad example.

1:36:30 I just know that it's a running thing with them that they just they only have a women's division for the appearance of it because they would get crap online if they didn't. But the but there's no real huge outcry.

1:36:43 So I don't know. I don't know.

1:36:44 I just I just don't think we are.

1:36:47 Leading down that road again. I don't think we can.

1:36:51 Maybe one day that will rear its bikini-clad head once more, but I don't think we're there anytime soon.

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1:37:56 I hope you're right, but I thought that it was very backwards that Toxic Attraction walked by Hayes and Williams, and they got all thirsty like they've never seen a woman before.

1:38:09 Yeah, that's fair.

1:38:10 And they're like, they're fine, and I'm like, yeah, one-third of them are fine. Okay, I'm not doing this. I. Oh, my God. OK, so there's three more matches on this show and we're not going to take time with them, really. But uh there's a little bit because almost every match on this show had extracurriculars afterwards uh and having that many extracurriculars on one show is a little much um Could have spread some of this out. I really, really wish they had. That is one of my bigger issues with this. Last week, I thought the pacing was fine because we were throwing a lot of new stuff here.

1:38:52 This week, I thought the pacing was no good. I'm starting to get some of these guys mixed up. And if you just put one in front of me and the announcers don't say their name, I'm going to have a little bit of trouble at this point. So the other matches we have were Dante Chen versus Trey Baxter. Dante Chen had a little bit of trouble with a reverse on a roll-up, which I thought was no good, but he wins in 58 seconds with a finisher that looked kind of cool, and they said they've never seen before.

1:39:24 I've seen it a thousand times in New Japan, but it is indeed a good finisher. And Cameron Grimes versus Joe Gacy. Joe Gacy got some mic time beforehand. They're going wildly different with him. He's still got the serial killer name, but they're making him heal by way of being a nice guy who doesn't hate the world. They're going...

1:39:48 super far with the, um, this is a safe space, whatever. And then having him be a hypocrite. I, I don't know. I think this is dead on arrival. Uh, but Cameron Grimes beats him in two 47, uh, Joe Casey, Joe Gacy wants to give him a handshake after the match. Um, Grimes is not having it. And, uh, but Gacy hugs him anyway, and then just, uh, just leaves. So, uh, This match actually reminded me more of old NXT than anything where guys would get their characters and then they'd go out there and get slaughtered. Tom and I in eight years back are just passing the point where Enzo and Cass were going out there. They were getting responses, but they were getting beaten basically every match. They were working on character stuff while they were not getting pushed.

1:40:43 So very strange to see. But that is kind of hearkening back to those days. We also got Odyssey Jones versus two enhancements. If they were named, I didn't catch it. Andre Chase is in a mini feud with Odyssey Jones. He cut a promo on him. No, he didn't have a promo. There was a vignette where he was teaching a class and one of the classmates brought up his loss to Odyssey Jones and he completely lost it. And so there you go. Two of the young guys actually feuding with each other, which we don't have a lot of.

1:41:21 The one other thing Trey Baxter did was he was backstage after his loss and they acknowledged. I always think this is a mistake, but they acknowledged his relationship with Cora Jade, his real life relationship. And she said something and she was just trying to be funny. helpful like you're okay you're a superhero and of course he latches on to the word superhero so we are going to see him playing a superhero real soon for some reason I mean he's dating Cora Jade so he's already my hero but a lot of people's hero but that is what he is doing and so there we got three matches and that gets rid of most of it I think Tom.

1:42:09 Yeah, I was surprised that they referenced the– well, not referenced. They just suddenly put on screen the real-life relationship of Cora Jade and Trey Baxter. And she said– and I don't know if this is true or not, but she said, how long have we been together?

1:42:27 And they're young. Everything is relative.

1:42:29 You know, like I it not being any of my business, I was under the impression that it was a pretty new relationship and they had gotten together after their signing relatively recent signing.

1:42:39 Maybe that's not the case. Maybe they're high school sweethearts. Maybe they go back further than that.

1:42:43 I don't know.

1:42:44 But but yeah, it was like, hey, we're going to present you with something real and then we're going to have them say something that you don't. I don't know that you have to take in character because it's none of your business. You don't really know what their real life relationship is like. And then we're going to have him say that he's going to become a superhero, which which I don't want to crap on because I like Nikki A.S.H. And, you know, so so I think that a superhero can work in in today's wrestling world.

1:43:12 But but yeah, it is a little bit like. I don't know.

1:43:16 And I also like really wasn't liking Trey Baxter at all.

1:43:19 So, you know, sure. Give him something new.

1:43:23 And the the match, the match, the match.

1:43:25 That was the Dante Chen match.

1:43:26 And I this guy was signed as part of that 2019 Shanghai tryout where they got another handful of talent. And then they got put on hold because 2020 happened. And so it was just one of those people that I hadn't even learned by name yet, but I was curious to see what he had. And I don't think he got to show off what he had here because this was the NXT special. This was the, you know, the, the guy who's going over, takes all the offense and then does something at the end. And what he did at the end didn't even work out all that well.

1:44:02 So yeah, I hope he gets another shot on TV soon so I can reevaluate. Um, and then speaking of didn't have anything going on, barely even, I don't know, uh.

1:44:15 Andre chase.

1:44:15 Uh, I, I liked, it seems to be the one thing that people didn't care for about the wedding, but I liked him saying, say, you know, somebody said, just cut to the chase. Then he stands up and goes, did somebody say chase, which is so dumb. And I understand why people didn't like it, but I was like, Oh man, Now I'm going to remember that guy.

1:44:34 And that's kind of funny.

1:44:35 And now I'm kind of waiting for the next time that somebody uses that word in an idle way backstage.

1:44:41 And he just pops out. Did somebody say chase?

1:44:44 So I didn't expect that he was suddenly going to have his own thatches thatch can, uh, situation going on backstage. And I don't know if that's really the direction I wanted that going in.

1:44:58 Um, but yeah, In the.

1:45:02 Realm of the sketch comedy style segment this was, I think it was okay. And it has the trappings of something like Thatch Is Thatch Can did. It has the trappings of something that can improve if they are ambitious is too strong of a word. But if they want to do something with it and they want to develop something out of this Andre Chase University scenario that they have now established, they absolutely can do that with.

1:45:29 What they set up tonight.

1:45:31 But then you look at Thatcher's Thatch Can, and they did not do that. They started it off at a complacent place where they were just like, no, this is what it's going to be.

1:45:37 The whole time. And that is the way that it was the whole time.

1:45:41 By the way, yeah, you never saw his face guy that was always getting the holds put on him by the students. That was Cal Bloom. You could tell from the hair. I mentioned that a couple of times in Thatcher's Thatch Can. But that ties into the Odyssey Jones match. Odyssey Jones, a guy who I have been very high on.

1:46:01 And I didn't think this was his best showing. Didn't look super fantastic. I think a lot of that was also the fact that he was against.

1:46:12 It was such a quick Chiron.

1:46:14 Kerry Millman and Darren Chepeta, two guys I've never seen before in my life.

1:46:20 No idea who they are. I kept calling in my head. I kept calling him the milkman of the chipmunk.

1:46:24 There you go.

1:46:29 I don't know which is which. So I don't know. I'll just say it was the white guy.

1:46:34 The white guy like wanted to be James Ellsworth or something.

1:46:37 And he was way too cartoonish.

1:46:40 And that's not what I'm looking at when I said that Jones didn't have his best showing here. But that certainly did not help. And and this was the other one that I couldn't think of earlier. Odyssey Jones versus Andre Chase. I just assumed they would do that match today. But but they did not. And they are they are not rushing it. So cool there. And there was one more Gacy and Grimes. OK, so, Kelly, I absolutely see where you're coming from. And that whole thing ran through my mind as well. Like, OK, of course, they're going.

1:47:11 It's it's like.

1:47:12 You know, the vegan bad guy, you know, like just because it's something that aggravates you and you like to eat steaks covered in ketchup, you know, that character becomes the bad guy on your TV show. But I am willing to give this version of Gacy a chance. It's yet another person who I really, I just did not care for, you know, version one of Gacy. So the version 2.0, I'll give it a chance because I don't think this is him just being a nice guy. I think this is him He's exuding toxic positivity. If he really wants to play the character, he will delete his Instagram and start a whole new one that's just inspirational quotes.

1:47:55 I don't know.

1:47:57 It's going to be aggravating how positive this guy is.

1:48:01 I'm with that, absolutely, because toxic positivity is an underrated, horrible personality trait. I just wonder... if they have the brain power to pull it off. I really hope they do. Because, I mean, they might not recognize it when they see it, because if you look at John Cena's Twitter feed, that's essentially.

1:48:26 All it is.

1:48:31 Oh, man.

1:48:31 Yeah.

1:48:32 And a lot of like if you're not really listening to what he was saying, which I guess I don't know, maybe I wasn't.

1:48:37 What the hell was he really saying?

1:48:38 It just it really was just like a cavalcade of hot button terms like safe space being thrown out there. Like, you know, clearly somebody's been on social media a couple.

1:48:47 Of times and they were like, oh, what's this crap? Oh, you know, and then and then here we are.

1:48:52 But I like that voice is correct.

1:48:54 Yeah.

1:48:55 Yeah.

1:48:58 I liked how he worked the gimmick into the match, that moment where he had to collect himself.

1:49:05 I love character work.

1:49:07 In the ring, and that in and of itself put this way over... what he, what he did not impress me with in the, uh, in the breakout tournament.

1:49:19 And, uh, and I liked, I liked the post-match.

1:49:21 I liked him going for the handshake and Grimes was like, no, I'm in wrestling. I'm not going to, I know what that is.

1:49:28 I'm not going to do that.

1:49:29 And then, uh, I just, I thought that was all very amusing. So, um, yeah, uh, this one is going to get a wait and see from me.

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1:50:16 all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app.

1:50:32 I love the hindsight placement of the breakout tournament because we're like, oh, they've got to get eight people over at once. NXT is like, eight?

1:50:42 Yeah.

1:50:43 Add a zero to the end of that, baby.

1:50:45 Hold my beer.

1:50:47 Yes, indeed.

1:50:49 Nate? All right, so we've got a lot of squash matches here. I guess the only one that I really– Grimes and Gacy, you guys pretty much covered everything there that I was going to talk about.

1:51:03 Dante Chen, I really liked the presentation of this guy.

1:51:08 From just the overall presentation.

1:51:11 His attire, his entrance attire, his entrance music especially, I really, really dug that. A lot of Um, in WWE as a whole, ever since CFO kind of in WWE parted ways, a lot of the entrance music has seemed very blah.

1:51:27 Um, this seemed, I mean, it was still kind.

1:51:29 Of generic electronic music, but it was, it was energetic and it kind of caught my ear and, and I, I enjoyed it.

1:51:35 I liked it.

1:51:36 Um, and I think it really fit his character as well. I want to see more of this guy. Um, you know, he's, uh, he seemed very energetic, very explosive. Um, and I, I certainly liked him. Um, and the, the Trey Baxter thing, I, you know, if we're just real quick talking about like the superhero, it's like, uh, I I'm okay with doing a superhero gimmick, but like you already have one superhero gimmick right now you get Nikki Ash and, and, or ASH.

1:52:03 Um, like I just, yes, sure. She's not an NXT, but like, I don't know. It just, I think that's kind of weird.

1:52:12 You're now going to have potentially two superhero gimmicks going on in the same sort.

1:52:17 Of universe, I guess. I don't know. Whatever is what it is. A nitpick, I guess.

1:52:23 If he can pull it off, then great. If not, then Hey, we'll see what happens. The other match that we had was that match between Odyssey.

1:52:31 Jones and Carrie Millman and Darren Williams.

1:52:34 Geppetta however you pronounce that um which you know like like you said uh like Tom said I don't think this was Odyssey Jones best performance best showing uh either um he's he's still clearly green in the ring he's got a lot of work uh you know to do to kind of uh get to to where I think he needs to be in the ring obviously this is developmental so this place has got to be for that um But what I think is really going to get him over is his charisma. He's got charisma for days.

1:53:03 He's great on the mic. Even in the ring, his ring presence is good. I mean, he's got that million-dollar smile. People just seem to like him. He's just a very likable personality. So I think he's going to be okay. But I do feel like he's got some work to do in the ring. But I did like the fact that he's taking these two munchkins around and just throwing them around the ring um it was it was great um i like that that's the type of squash match that that i want to see um but uh but yeah i don't really have a whole heck of a lot uh to add to um the other one so yeah i think that's it.

1:53:47 All right so we got a few other segments that were non-wrestling segments uh we got another tony d'angelo segment um while since they presented a stereotype to this degree and that's saying a lot because this company is this company um Like, it makes me laugh, and not in a good way. It's just so one-dimensional. Von Wagner, he hates tires, and he beats them up with sledgehammers. Raquel and the Monet brand ran into each other, and then Lash... Oh, I've forgotten the name already. Lash Legend showed up as well, too.

1:54:32 Very presentational. It just, it sounded like she was reading. I hope that this goes better and expect it to go better. Actually, when they're sometimes with neophyte actors with one or two lines, uh, they sound very rehearsed and then you throw them out there and they know what they got to hit, but there's a lot of stuff that they, there's a lot of, uh, off the cuff, whatever that they have to do and just stay in their character. I'm expecting better. in the ring so hopefully that happens we also got brooks jensen and josh briggs in a bar room brawl they showed us the footage from this apparently viral uh battle that they had in a brawl with some guys the best part of this horrible segment by far was the fact that there are

1:55:22 a lot of other people in the bar and they're looking at the fight but they're not reacting which is it made it look like the fakiest video I have ever seen. This was worse than porn because it was pretty bad. Yeah, like if you're an extra, we don't expect much, but react to the thing that you are looking at. Jensen and Briggs in this segment were fine, but the segment itself wasn't. was pretty stupid. Um, so yes, that's all the non-wrestling stuff, Nate.

1:56:03 All right.

1:56:03 So the Briggs and Jensen bar fight that was, uh, was definitely, um, pretty, pretty dumb.

1:56:10 Um, I, I liked these two guys together. I liked the gimmick.

1:56:14 Um, you know, good, a couple of good old boys just, you know, uh, kicking ass. Um, but yeah, it was a little, uh, The whole segment itself was just– I think it was just too overly produced.

1:56:28 It's just not my cup of tea. Let's see.

1:56:32 The other– you had the Briggs-Jansen bar fight, and then what was the other segment?

1:56:36 I don't know how I spaced on this already.

1:56:38 There was Tony D'Angelo and Von Wagner attacking a giant tire.

1:56:43 Yeah.

1:56:44 Yeah.

1:56:45 Right.

1:56:45 So, uh, Von Wagner attack at the tire was also kind of weird, like trying to show how tough you are, I guess.

1:56:53 I don't know.

1:56:54 I'm not, I'm not sure I'm sold on this character. Um, I, I, I'm going to give it a chance. Um, I, I did, I did enjoy him last week, you know, in, in, uh, in that fatal four-way match. Um, you know, he's not, I don't, you know, obviously not the most polished in the world, but, uh, but I, I, I did, I did enjoy what we saw out of the former Cal bloom.

1:57:14 Um, the audience dumped on him last week. So I think a segment like this was necessary where he said, I could complain about it or I could do the work. Um, he's got to endear himself to the crowd now because he should not have been thrown to the wolves like that.

1:57:30 No, no, I, I, I agree with you there.

1:57:33 So this, this definitely kind of helps that character development and, uh, hopefully to kind of get us, to get.

1:57:38 Us behind him a bit more, you know, and I, and I.

1:57:41 Feel like that's even, you know, and I, this is a little bit of a, of a derailment here, but that's kind of even, you know, with Bron breaker, I think that's kind of something they're going to need to do with him too. I don't think the crowd's necessarily not behind him, but again, just throwing these guys out right out there to the wolves in these high profile spots.

1:57:59 Yeah.

1:57:59 I think that there could definitely be again, some, you know, fan resentment and pushback there. Um, so I definitely like these, these segments, you know, the, devon wagner segment um you know something like that to uh you know kind of advance these guys i would love to see them bring back um wow the name of these the this uh it was almost like the shoot promo backstage promo what do they call them um i want to call them breaking point but i know that's not it oh.

1:58:27 Yeah uh By the time they ended, they were– yeah, by the end, they were.

1:58:32 So– They were so not like what they used to be.

1:58:36 Prime target.

1:58:38 Prime target. Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for.

1:58:40 I would love to see some more of those type videos and vignettes, video packages for these guys, and I'm talking like– those first few prime target videos, not, not kind of what they came to be is, is.

1:58:53 More of like a storyline thing.

1:58:54 Um, even I guess the other ones kind of sort of were too, but you know what I mean?

1:58:59 Um, I'd like to see something, something like that out.

1:59:01 Of, uh, for a lot of these newer guys to get us kind of more on board, uh, segment. I'm like, like I said, I think I said this with Greg was supposed to Greg on what I forget.

1:59:16 I think it was Greg balloon wrestling night in America talking with Tommy, Tony Angelo. And like, I'm, I'm, I'm on board. Like, I like it. I'm Italian, even with the last name Lindbergh, mostly Italian. Yeah.

1:59:29 So I kind of like the whole Italian stereotype gimmick here. You know, I've always liked like Sopranos, Mafioso, Godfather type, type things.

1:59:40 So it's kind of got that feel to it.

1:59:42 I'm, I'm on board with it, but I want to see what happens when he actually, like, is this going to translate to the ring?

1:59:50 I think the, you know, the vignettes are okay.

1:59:52 They're a little cheesy, a little campy. I, I, have a feeling that he's going to probably get a bit of a mixed reaction because I think.

2:00:01 There's going to be....

2:00:07 You know uh type type of a character like uh mafioso type of character and there's going to be people that are just like not this is dumb this is stupid this is this is like older and whatever been done um so i don't know i'm curious to see what's actually going to happen when he gets in front of a crowd when he gets in the ring and if it's actually going to translate um you know to the uh to the general audience but uh so far i'm i'm on board with it i'm on board with it let's see what happens uh you know when we actually get them in the ropes between.

2:00:36 The ropes.

2:00:38 I wonder if I'd feel that way if I like had a super strong background, but I'm like, I'm pretty English. I'm pretty Swedish. I've got a decent amount of Irish, but like, I don't have a thing that I relate so much to that I would have a strong feeling on. It just seems like this is so obvious to me and not in the greatest of ways. Um, but I don't know. I, some of what I've seen, I saw some people fawning over this, uh, on, I actually occasionally look at Reddit on wrestling just to see what they're saying over there. Um, and they were talking about this and this guy was like, Oh, this is going to be awesome. I love Johnny Stamboli and I love this.

2:01:27 And I'm like, yeah, there was a guy who drew a lot of money. Um, I don't know. It's, We'll see what his ceiling is. Right now, there's so many people they're trying to push. I couldn't pick him out of a one-man lineup, but I guess we'll see.

2:01:44 Go ahead.

2:01:47 Go ahead, Nate.

2:01:49 All I was going to say was I don't think he's going to have much more of a ceiling than the North American title picture.

2:01:55 Wow, that's lofty for what we've seen so far.

2:02:00 Yeah, I would be shocked if he got there.

2:02:03 Yeah, like I don't think– and that's like on the high end. Like I don't think we're going to see him much higher than that.

2:02:08 But that's all I was going to say.

2:02:10 Yeah, I think he's seeing at least Fantagio.

2:02:15 When we were talking about the the title situation that Darrell brought up, completely forgot the North American title was a thing. When when Nate said North American title, I was like, whoa, he's talking to main roster call up already.

2:02:26 Whoa.

2:02:26 OK, I've been trying to. Oh, God, it's swerve. It's I was trying to remember for kind of a while because he's been involved in stuff, but it's not involving the championship.

2:02:37 Yeah.

2:02:38 So with Tony D'Angelo, since we're there, I've just decided that that I want it to be an on the waterfront type thing. But he keeps saying that his relatives guided him to go where the money is and he's going to NXT, which, yes, is hilarious.

2:02:56 Malcolm Bivens.

2:02:57 But I I want him to be presented as a really good wrestler who can get it done. But then he's got to take the fall in the end because.

2:03:09 That's what he's being paid to do. And his family's making money off of betting against him.

2:03:14 Just go down with this thing. Have you seen Diggstown?

2:03:18 No, I thought On the Waterfront was a really good reference.

2:03:22 Diggstown was probably referencing On the Waterfront, but Diggstown does it in a kind of funny way. A good moment in a bad movie.

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2:04:38 Um, okay.

2:04:39 So Kelly, uh, the Briggs and Jensen video, did that remind you of anything from eight years back?

2:04:45 Uh, D squared.

2:04:46 Yeah, of course. And I was going to actually say that before I threw to you and I was like, of course these things always come around because like this particular brain trust can only think of like five different gimmicks.

2:05:00 Um, so there was another one that I, D-Squared.

2:05:06 By the way, folks, is Garrett Dillon, who is the real-life son of Chris Christopherson and is not as pretty, so he went into wrestling. And Dash Wilder, who you know. So that was D-Squared, and they took Dillon off TV for quite a while. But he'll be back at some point in NXT eight years back.

2:05:32 With with some kind of health issue because uh because he comes to the ring guzzling barbecue.

2:05:37 Sauce right it it doesn't.

2:05:40 Sound real but that that's that's what he did and um uh and it was scott dawson for the record scott dawson but.

2:05:47 Oh did i say dash oh for god's sake well now that.

2:05:50 They've changed their names i don't know who's who anymore yeah which one's dash which one's dawson.

2:05:56 Dash and cash right dash and cash rhyme and that's the same guy is that right.

2:06:02 Or they're different guys and that's why I'm confused.

2:06:04 Or they rhyme and they aren't the same guy.

2:06:07 It's the exact same good old boy gimmick down to the fact that they met in a fight. These guys, Dawson and Dylan, met in a fight. It's just that that fight wasn't in a bar. It was at the CMA Awards.

2:06:23 God, yeah. Such a funny little.

2:06:25 Tidbit that Tony Dawson just throws out on commentary during one of their matches.

2:06:30 They didn't have the budget at the time, but God, I wish they'd had the budget.

2:06:37 To send Sylvester LaFleur, because that's the other thing. Sylvester LaFleur, the legit French guy who's doing a parody of a French guy, was their manager for some reason. This is just for anybody who's not VIP, if you're still listening at this point. And the funniest thing about it all is that they were actually really good. I mean, nobody who has watched Scott Dawson's career is going to be super surprised by that. But like even Garrett Dillon in the context of this tag team was like, you know what? Yeah, I'm not into the gimmick, but these matches are very entertaining.

2:07:12 They had a French manager? That's weird. Yeah, he always.

2:07:17 An overwhelmingly French manager, Sylvester LeFour.

2:07:21 I remember him, but I don't remember that act. I think that might be just before my time.

2:07:25 And he would exaggerate his own voice more every time he said it. And so would the announcers. Yeah, it was a wonderful brief time.

2:07:37 Fantastic. Yep.

2:07:39 Yep.

2:07:40 But but in this case, we've got Ben Buchanan and Josh Briggs and Ben Brooks Jensen still has to prove himself.

2:07:49 Josh Briggs is working his way. I don't know.

2:07:54 We haven't seen enough for me to say he's working his way back into his into my favor, but that's what he has to do. after what we've seen from him based on what my expectations.

2:08:03 For him were.

2:08:03 I said, I think I said hopes before that's putting it, that's too strong, but my expectations were much higher. And, uh, to the point where when he got in this tag team, it's like, yeah, it kind of makes sense. Kind of makes sense after what you showed in the breakout tournament and, and in whatever the match was that he did after that, like, uh, Something where he got beat by somebody.

2:08:25 Carmelo Hayes, I don't know.

2:08:27 But yeah, I will– if there is something there like there was with D Squared eight years ago, I will have to look.

2:08:34 Past the gimmick to appreciate it.

2:08:38 So there you go, and I also can't remember who beat Josh Briggs, but I think it was one of the existing– Non-breakout?

2:08:46 I don't know. Yeah, I really– maybe it was L.A. Night or something. Actually, that– That seems– No.

2:08:54 L.A.

2:08:55 Night– got Grimes, Josh Briggs to beat up Grimes. Yes. Right. Yeah. Or tried to.

2:09:02 Oh, and the only other one of these I was going to comment on was the Ikeman Jiro thing.

2:09:05 And I probably shouldn't because.

2:09:07 Everybody, I forgot to write that down.

2:09:09 Yeah.

2:09:09 It's, it's the only other one of these that I actually have a comment on. None of the other ones really, you know, inspired much out of me, but, um, but, and, and this one didn't either, but, um, it's just that everybody loves this guy. And all I'm here to say is just, I don't get it. So everyone can murder me later at Tom's help on Twitter, but I just, I don't, I don't get it. Um, he was like, if I had a least favorite part of the wedding, it was his bit. Um, and, and this, this video, the, the style strong showing off the jackets.

2:09:40 I don't get it. I have not enjoyed this.

2:09:42 Man on my TV, but literally everyone else seems to have him as like the high point of the show.

2:09:47 So, um, so just throwing that out there.

2:09:49 I don't know.

2:09:51 Tom's house sold on from parts unknown, uh, born unknown, uh, died 2021, uh, murder. Murder was the case, uh, when Tom died, because when I come in, Jiro showed up, he literally saved this God awful fricking show for me. Um, I'm Kelly Wilson. You can fuck. Yep, that's as close as I've ever gotten on this show. No, I said it once about JBL. I'm Kelly Mills. You can find me all over social media at SpookyMilk or SpookyMilk.Games. I created a game, a card game a couple of years ago called Fun Dead, and it was just picked up regionally by stores. Um, it will be sold in stores. Finally, this was all supposed to happen before COVID, but then COVID happened and nobody gave a shit anymore about board games,

2:10:46 which does make sense, but sucks for me. Um, but yes, now, uh, my game funded sold in stores in Minnesota and Wisconsin, specifically games by James. Tom, who are you?

2:11:00 I'm at Tom Stout on Twitter, a guy who is very happy to hear that. A guy who has played Fun Dead with its creator and has a copy of it on my shelf and has two photoshopped photos of me in the game. And I'm very happy to hear that news. And it's also weird that, I don't know, like the production and in-person purchasing, sure. But I became more interested in board games over the course of the pandemic because I was at home with my family.

2:11:35 And so we got into a couple.

2:11:39 Existing board games did just fine, but I was supposed to meet them at home. large conventions, um, where these pitches happen. So these obvious ways to pitch games did not exist for a while.

2:11:56 Gotcha. Gotcha. Um, okay. Well, uh, yeah, I guess, I don't know. That's, that's a different tangent.

2:12:03 We can have that after we stop recording, but, uh, At TomStop on Twitter is where I have all of my links. When I say that, yes, it's the tweets, but I also have the link to my blog where all of my links are. And those links now include Willing Creatures on YouTube, my Dungeons & Dragons group. We have started recording our sessions. And, yeah, it's a cool jumping-on point now. It will, I will be honest, it will be a better jumping-on point later, and I'll let you know about that when it happens. But if you want to get on early, we are, I mean, it's...

2:12:36 it's high drama right now um we have a lot of fun but it's also very high drama as told by yes the the players as dnd goes but all but as orchestrated and and conducted by a very very good dungeon master who has put a lot of thought into this world and does a really wonderful job of laying it all out for us to uh to have fun with so uh willing creatures on youtube is where you can subscribe to that links at tom stout on.

2:13:02 Twitter nathaniel mcfreeze what the hell did you ever create Oh, well, you.

2:13:07 Know, a few things.

2:13:09 I do a little side project called DJs and Dragons, which you guys we've talked about here and there, where I take a look at therapeutic intentionality and role playing games.

2:13:21 So it's a little bit of a tie in with what Tom's doing here.

2:13:23 So if you guys want to check that out, Nate Lindbergh dot com. There's links to that show. There's links to this show. There's links to my hits and misses. There's links to a bunch of stuff. Just go to Nate Lindbergh dot com.

2:13:33 You can see what I do.

2:13:35 All right, folks, this is Kelly Wells saying brandy and Coke, I mean, at best, just okay, but I don't think it's even that. We'll see you in seven.

2:13:44 Cheers. This is Love Cat.

2:14:02 Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on a commercial-free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access our ad-free website with VIP exclusive content. pwtorch.com slash govip Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You can participate in the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by emailing your question or topic to wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com. You can also participate in the Wade Keller Post Shows by emailing wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com

2:14:49 during or right after Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown. Let your voice, let your opinions be heard on our shows via email, wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the flagship and wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com for our post shows. It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media experience that I know many of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage.

2:15:31 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

2:15:41 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

2:15:54 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.

2:16:30 You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a bit and see if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup online. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.

2:17:04 Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us to others. Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these

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2:17:40 There's no larger....

2:18:09 Longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting. Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com slash go VIP. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card. In one or two minutes from right now, you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com slash govip.