"Brown Sugar" – D'Angelo

0:00 1995 R&B is all drum machines and digital production, slick Polish, safe. Hip hop and soul are living in two different houses. All of a sudden, a 21 year old from Richmond, VA walks into a New York studio with a Fender Rhodes, a Hammond organ, and a head full of Marvin, Prince and Tribe. He plays almost everything himself, writes it, produces it, arranges it.

0:21 Nobody asked for this record, but it would build a bridge between those two worlds. His manager announced it as the birth of neo soul, but D'Angelo never claimed that term. He just said I make black music, this is brown sugar and he's got someone he wants you to meet. Let me tell you about this girl. Maybe I shouldn't.

0:40 And the name was Brown Sugar. See, we've been making love constantly. That's why my eyes are shaved. The way that we kiss isn't like any other way that I be kissing when I'm kissing. What I'm missing. Won't you listen? Brown Sugar babe? I can't high off your love. I don't know how to. I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter.

1:02 Martin and you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Music Explorer. Explorer brought today by Open Studio Go to Open studiojazz.com for oh, your jazz lesson needs Peter big day. Big day. This is going to be fun. We're going back in time. In fact, we're going so far back in time that I got a little confused what decade it was. I did say 1995, right?

1:21 Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. But then I realized, I mean, this, this is 1995 right here. This is Scream in the middle of the 90s. You how many? You how many Toyota Celicas I got in the passenger seat of where? A copy of that CD D Angelo's Brown Sugar was kind of broken. The case was broken. It was sitting on the floor of the Celica.

1:37 Yeah. And it had the Celica also, by the way, it had ground effects. It had a had a wing on the back. Some McDonald French fries. Hell yeah. Smelled like weed. You know the whole. Thing half of this was kind of ripped up, but it been looked you. Know absolutely there was. What a. Time and it and by the way CD was on the floor, didn't even that Celica didn't come with ACD player had a tape deck with that.

1:56 Convertible ox. Yeah, yeah, maybe it maybe it had dogs. Oh, 95 was great because we weren't really like Y2K. Maybe was just a little like a, a joke, a glimmer. We weren't freaking out about it yet. Not. Yet. Not yet. But I got confused 'cause I pulled out. You know what this is, my friend? Well, of course you know 'cause you were robbed there.

2:14 But this was my very first. CD player? Where did you find that? Thing, this is the Sony. Well this is actually this is the same model. This is not the actual player. I found it on a little place called eBay. I can send you a. Link that is commitment to physical media this. Is the D50 though? This was the actual 1st and I was so excited for this episode but then I realized I got my decades wrong. I bought this in 1980.

2:32 Five, I was going to say that's a little bit bulky for 95. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was sort of piggybacking on our Michael Jackson bad, which was one of my first early non jazz C DS. Man, do you remember when this album came out? Brown Sugar. Oh. Absolutely. It blew me away. I, I remember it's one of those moments. It only happens occasionally in your lifetime where you hear music and you're like, oh, I don't think I've ever heard anything quite like this.

2:54 This is like a new thing for us. I, I totally agree. I mean, it just, and you know, records that as soon as you hear like that intro, that it just takes you back to a place, man, what, what, what, what a wonderful thing that we have with this. And I mean, one thing about this is it it, it is something new and it does like it was like, whoa, but it was also something backwards.

3:14 It feels familiar. That's the the genius about D'Angelo and actually all three of the studio albums is They both feel like something totally fresh that you've never heard before. And it also feels like something from your childhood somehow. Like it feels like something that's been around forever. It feels like something that is very familiar to the culture and yet it has this this air of freshness, this new combination. It's the mark of I think any true genius And I'll I'll throw the G word out for D'Angelo.

3:39 I truly one of the great musicians. I'll put a. Capital on that G, my friend. It's really, really good and I love this album so much. To me, this is like the classic announcement of a brand new mega talent and you know, we were so excited about this. It's what really caused Voodoo to be such a massive hit as people were so excited to see what was next from, you know, the artist that made brown sugar.

4:01 That, that that anticipation for Voodoo was so incredible. And it man did that pay off. Absolutely, and this was a time still maybe the tail end of it kind of. But when you were expecting, when you were, you know, coming out with great records and and getting hits and stuff like this did to have another record that next year, right, Maybe even nine months later. And he was five years till Voodoo came out. So that was an eternity then.

4:22 I mean, it still would be, but I mean, this is something that's exciting I think too like this thing of like, what does it harken back to Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Those are sort of obvious things. But I think for folks that maybe came up kind of Gen. Xer type types like us and a little older and a little younger too.

4:39 It was, you know, Prince, right, who was ever present still there then, of course, in the mid 90s and before this, but was so influential on this, but also the connection to hip hop, which I think D Angelo doesn't get enough credit for the first track here, Brown Sugar that we're going to dig into a little bit deeper. Even then we just did.

4:57 I think it's such a an example of that. And with Ali Shaheed Muhammad, that connection with Tribe called Quest. But the grooves all over this record are like they're hip hop grooves, but he's singing soul and background. And he wasn't the first to bring these disparate elements together. But I mean, he sure was the first to like put it together and then his manager coined it Neo soul, which he didn't like and none of them liked it. He never claimed it.

5:19 He never claimed it. But whatever it was, it was this, this soul jazz. We're going to talk for sure. We always talk a little jazz, but there's. Jazz musicians on this album too, but we. Have jazz some some of the greatest 90s or or anytime jazz musicians on this room. Let's listen to a little more brown sugar, and then I want to talk about the 90s a little more. So maybe let's listen to this open track. Get it in our ears.

5:35 Let's do it big fat B minor 6 to start it out. Come on. So the background chatter, studio chatter, very Marvin, but very Tribe also. Let me tell you about this girl. Maybe I shouldn't. I met him and the name was Brian. We be making love constantly. That's why my eyes all the shade. The way that we kiss isn't like any other way that I be kissing. What I'm pissing, what I'm missing. I guess high up your love.

6:23 I don't know how to. Be all the background vocals. This is like, that's the Prince thread. You know right that the attention to detail on those. And the mix on these vocals, extraordinary. The backgrounds in the main, I mean, also, man, yeah. Virginia dude, yes, the the gospel influence. Oh sugar, wake it first to me. You love me right down to my knees and whenever you let me hit it.

6:57 Sweet like honey when it comes to me. Skinless caramel with the Coco eyes. Even got a big sister by the name of Chocolate Chow Brown Sugar Bay. Don't know how to behave. Man, can we talk about the sound of that snare drum? Real. Quick so great incredible Ali Shahid Muhammad did the broke the drum brunt the sorry the drum programming on this the organ, the Hammond B3.

7:38 That's that's D'Angelo, of course, but the snare. Is that organ based too? I think it is. I mean, I'm convinced that it is. It's definitely D'Angelo on it. I mean, you hear that sustain on it. And so I mean, that's the that's the Virginia Richmond, the the gospel influenced Angela's father was. There's some great videos on YouTube of him playing as a teenager in his church and it is sublime. It's unbelievable.

8:03 And he comes out of that, you know, the Pentecostal 4 male quartet, vocal tradition quartet, which he put his own thing together and had been doing that. And then he's doing that with the backgrounds on this. It's it's incredible. But I think that this, you know, with Ali programming the drums on this and also probably even a bigger influence on D'Angelo beyond just this track and this record, Ali Shaheed Muhammad is the one that introduced that connected Bob Power, who we just lost this last week.

8:35 So I mean, this is as much a celebration of Bob Power and his collaboration with D'Angelo and and also just all the mini records from this this period that he worked on. But I mean, he was the engineer, but he also played guitar. He produced. They did stuff at his loft up in Union Square, just him and D Angelo that were demos.

8:51 A lot of that stuff made it onto this record. Some of it D Angelo wanted more of it to come on this record, but he was just a force. And seeing the outpouring of love and appreciation and camaraderie with Bob Power this last week has been amazing from some of the best musicians on the. Planet. All right, Peter, one of the best Bob power.

9:09 Can I just put in your ears a little bit? I mean, not literally putting your ears, but do you remember the early 90s, some of the R&B? You remember Brian McKnight? Yeah. Remember Boys to Men? Yeah, sure. They were going stronger. And Vogue. Yeah. Right. R Kelly. R Kelly. Yeah, yeah. Can't remember him. But the the sort of pop music influence, especially of like with like Brian McKnight, Babyface, yeah, even boys to men like the shiny, programmed, polished. This has more of that organic 70s soul vibe. I think it's easy to take for granted now because D'Angelo has been such a huge part of music in our lifetime since this album, that this was so it felt so different. I remember it so clearly.

9:49 I was, I think I was a sophomore in high school when this came out and I just remember the the video for this and him on a real roads. And I just learned what a real roads was right around then, you know, and knowing like that was even that was a bit of a statement. It wasn't a digital, brand new, shiny and Sonic synthesizer, but it was this earthy, organic roads that Stevie Wonder played.

10:13 You know, that kind of thing. It was the sound, it was the visual, but it was also, you know, somebody sitting at that instrument and connecting with the elders. You know what I mean? You know, Herbie in the 70s and stuff. Like he was making a statement with that. And the hip hop thing is too is, is I think I think it's legitimate.

10:28 There's no like rapping on this album. No, there are a lot of four chord vamps on this album. Like this whole song is just this, these four chords that happen together and it's a lot. There's a few, few tracks like that on Brown Sugar and I think it does make for it seems like at any moment someone's about to come in and like spit a verse, you know what I mean? Like it's like it could happen it. Could totally fit over this.

10:47 And it's kind of like D'Angelo and he talked about this. Something like his aesthetic, his connection with the music, the grooves, the beats, especially Tribe Called Quest, but also Jay Dillon, we're going to get into some of that, the connection with that a little bit later. But like he wanted that sound. But then he also like had a vision for like he'd already done demos of these mostly songs or at least half of them he wrote when he was like 1617 years old in Richmond, VA in his bedroom, some of them with his brother. You know, he had like an in Sonic, one of those 4 tracks that he won when he came up to New York, the famous story about, you know, he's won the Apollo thing and everything. So like he had worked a lot of

11:22 this music out and he wanted that sound and so that's actually how he connected. He asked I I think it was Ali Shaheed Muhammad or or somebody in tribe to connect him with Bob power, because he's like I like his sound like. So he the same way like later on Pinot Paladino, like he went into the to the to the B.B. King session.

11:42 It was like, Oh my God, I've been looking for someone that loves James Jamerson as much as me. That's what I want. That's nice. Yeah. So I'm gonna put I'm gonna put out there also today. Not only is this an incredible record and D Angelo yes capital G with the genius, but also incredible visionary and bandleader. 100%.

11:58 You know, I mean, he's 21 years old on this and like, we're gonna hear some live stuff that he did. And I remember like when he was on David Letterman, he went on AI mean, what was the what was the London show? Jules, Jules. Jules Holland. Jules Holland. Yeah, yeah. He went with the band man and he was like sitting at that rose and then he'd sing these lines and then come man it was.

12:16 This is nothing program. This is why church musicians rule the world because they can do all that like they they they can back it up with some real playing and real live performance. Can I get a little music nerdy for our music Nerdy. And this is some nerdy. This is some weird nerd jiu jitsu because I'm going to use some nerdy stuff to encourage my music nerds out there.

12:34 No, no, you got it. Do you know this tune? You know the change of tune? What key is it in here? Be minor. So be minor. So for my music nerds out there, don't be too precious with your keys, with your major in your minor. One of the, I think most powerful things about brown sugar, this is a few times when he's like, I guess high, the high, right, Which is like you're reaching up there.

12:55 You're thinking that's going to be the minor. I guess high a few times he bends it up even more to the D sharp. Bends it up, yes. Can you play a B minor? Yeah, I guess. Hi. Yeah, hi. Bending it up, right. Bending it up. Even though the chord he's playing is minor, he's singing that major third over it. And not only do you like, does it not sound bad? It sounds amazing.

13:17 It's it's like it brings you back into the cosmos, almost like it takes you to a new a new plane. I know that sounds grandiose, but this shit is grandiose, man. It's really. Good it is. And I mean, it's, it's a little bit overly simplistic to like call it. It is. It's bluesy. Yeah. It's. Stupid, but it is.

13:32 But I mean like, it's that element, it's. The tradition of the Blues, that is, that major minor rub is what makes Western black American Music so amazing. Yeah, you know, it's what makes it so different and special. So this is the beginning. Just the vocals in the background. So you get this kind of studio chatter thing, you know, it's it's the Marvin Gaye.

13:52 It's the Tribe Called. Quest Is that the Detroit Lions? Yeah. But it was with Marvin. But it's throughout the track and so it gives us this, you know, it's just like this. It keeps going on the whole time in a vibe. Yeah. No, it doesn't. Absolutely. Does it really? Yeah. And then later on, like when the backgrounds come in, you're not hearing it. Tribe stuff.

14:16 There. Yeah, totally. Yeah, you hear it. And you know EMI famously, yeah, that was going on there. I had no idea. I mean, I heard in the beginning, but I I just didn't even realize. Yeah, you don't. Really know I mean, you notice it once you hear your. Smoldering or something. It's so it's like you're in the studio and it's it's got a certain and like some of these tracks, and we're going to even hear D'Angelo talk about this are very clean and they're killing.

14:41 And it's like kind of the opposite of this is the one track, which is incredible because it's not, this wasn't the biggest hit, but this was one of the hits, right? It's got to be the biggest hit. Is it? I guess ladies probably the biggest. Yeah, yeah, lady. But this was the first single, though, and this was the one that he was doing on time when everybody was like, damn. I'll tell you what though, for me and my friends, this was the one, this track was the one, this is still, this is probably going to make it into the categories for me, this track. Yeah, no, it's so great.

15:02 But I mean, and when he goes into like but you can still hear it, right? Once you hear it, you can't but but check out this base on the organ. This is just the left hand, or maybe it's with the feet. That's probably. The left, do you have a little filling games in there? That's the thing, man. He had all of it in there. He, he, it's one of those musicians. You would just love to talk to him about music and talking about his influences.

15:34 Yeah, listen to music with him would be amazing. Yeah, You know, it's that organic feel, even though it's the program drums that like that, that tribe sounded that just, you know, it's loose. It's that loose production aesthetic too. And that's that chatter in the studio. It's just like we're falling into this thing. EMI was pissed about this.

15:51 They were like, no, smooth it out, smooth out. And he had to really fight to keep this one on there. And because they were like, you're going to start that, they just going to be the first single. And they love the song, but they they thought it was too rough around the edges. They were wrong. I think they were wrong on that. OK, let's explore a little bit more. This is there's some great archive interviews, Red Bull Music Academy, which I don't think it exists anymore, but it was a wonderful interview.

16:15 Like Red Bull, the energy. Drink the energy drink they're on. They were in the music interview business for a while. They won a skydiving F1. Yeah, D'Angelo. D'Angelo. But I mean, he did a wonderful interview. You know, he didn't do a lot of interviews. He was, he liked, he didn't like big crowds of people.

16:29 Rafael Saadiq said that he was like, he liked to be, you know, even when he would record in the studio, especially later on, he'd have like a, you know, already a studio's like a cave usually like no windows or anything. And then in the vocals, when he was running vocals, he'd have like a sort of tent cave thing to like a, a cave within a cave.

16:46 You know, he wanted to feel, he wanted, he didn't want people around. He wanted to concentrate. You know, he was never social media or anything. I mean, he was like, I get it. Yeah. But this is where he talks about what we mentioned before about coming to together with Bob Power. This is D'Angelo. Just about the entirety like of the first album, Brown Sugar. I wrote it the majority of that record in my bedroom in Richmond, and all of the demos for it were done on a four track in my bedroom.

17:21 I think EMI was a little leery of me being in the studio producing it on my own, which is what I was fighting for. So it was important for them that I go on with someone, an engineer. Everyone was trying to pick, like you should get Prince's engineer or somebody else. And I picked Bob Power because of my love for Tribe and what they were doing and it was the best, It was the best thing to do. And he was so awesome.

17:56 He taught me a lot. All of the demos that I had. Basically before we even set foot in the studio, we were at Bob Power's house for like 3 months. Like going over every detail, like tweaking every I had, every symbol, you name it. Wow. Yeah, so. That's amazing. I've never heard that. That's incredible.

18:20 Yeah. And, you know, this is one of those records where they where it's listed. And this was the fashion at that time because people were actually doing it. Composed, written, arranged, produced and performed by D'Angelo, you know, which is like, you know, very much coming out of the Stevie Wonder tradition, but very much Prince, Prince, you know, coming out of that tradition. And then of course, there was other people on there. But you have to go across a certain threshold to be able to say that it doesn't mean you can't have little guitar, little trumpet, little which which is on here. You know, Rafael Saadiq killing guitar at bass. But I mean the fact that like everything, not only is is and he wrote almost everything too.

18:59 I mean, there's the one cover cruising and there's a couple of collaborations. Great cover. Yes, his covers are amazing. A whole type of thing. But anyway, yeah, so I just wanted to kind of frame it on that that partnership with Bob Power and D'Angelo on this. Shall we move? On Yeah, let's check out the next track. Yeah, now this was oh man, I love this. I forgot for some reason.

19:22 I would skip over this a little bit for some time. Oh, this is good. Man, but it's so good. I'm not saying it ain't good. I just, that's the joy of music, right? Coming back to it and you're like, all right. Shout out to some envelope filters on this album. Yeah, just full of little wow things. And that's Bob Power on guitar.

19:40 This is just D'Angelo on Power. So good drunk programming. I think they out wendelled Wendell. Wendell who? That's all right, That's all right. We made for misunderstanding. That's all day. That's all day. Because you're mine, girl, and not you're married. That's your. Mind that's your. Mind girl, you're still trust me while we'll be all we'll be all and there's all we can do is just.

21:01 That melody comes back a little bit too later. He uses that Lady as well, Yeah. The way they've got the vocals sitting in the mix in the backgrounds. We're going to check them out separately because they're it's so well setting in there. You almost, I mean, like when you turn it down, you kind of hear it almost better, you know, and all of these, I mean, this is Wah Wah Watson.

21:24 That's that's what power is doing. He's channeling, you know, the great guitar, you know. Amazing. The placement of the drum. And this is the thing, D'angelo's 21 years old. I mean, he was, you know, I never got a chance to meet him, but I was kind of around him a couple of times in the same room and he had that aura, like that old soul aura.

21:47 I. Mean you could hear it in the music. You could hear it in the music and like and hear. Him talking too, you could hear it. You hear him talking like that was authentically who he was. And like when we come across these artists, these geniuses, you know, and certainly he was celebrated. And, and since his passing last year, we're it it, it may feel like whereas everybody's celebrating even more. And, and you know, 1 wonders is like, man, do we understand the loss You can you ever under like when, when it's a you, you can't quantify it with three records or 4. You know, it's not about that.

22:18 It's like the presence of somebody that gave their art, you know, willingly in a way that was like authentic to them, certainly, and their old soulless, his old soulless, but also like the work, like he said, he's like, we sat there for three months sweating every detail on this. Yeah, you can hear it, people. Understand, it's like, and he could have like you see him on those live performances, he's killing and we're going to listen to some.

22:40 I mean, it's not like they couldn't have just gone with the band, but like he didn't have the vision actualized yet, right? It was still up here. And then he's meeting, you know, Ali, Bob Power, the different people, you know, Rafael Saadiq, you know. I, I think he is one of the, and, and you know the, we always say like, you know, we only got 3 studio albums from him, but it's because we only got 3 studio albums because there's five years between Brown Sugar and Voodoo and then what, 1213 years between Voodoo and Black Messiah, something like that.

23:10 Yeah, maybe 14, maybe 14, something like that. And we, we get 3 studio albums, but it's like such a clear case of, you know, the sort of early and then mid and then later stages of a great artist career that we see in other artists. I've actually been thinking about this in terms of even like film directors with as I've been listening to Brown Sugar and Voodoo this week, honestly, and black Messiah this week too.

23:33 I listened to once, but like I've been thinking about people like, you know, these two directors. It's almost Oscar season here, Peter in 2026 and it's like, you know, everybody's talking about sinners and 1 battle after another and Ryan Coogler and Paul Thomas Anderson. And I think there's like you get to see in D Angelo's studio albums like the evolution of this amazing artist happened so clearly where this album is his like Fruitvale Station, his creed.

23:58 Like it's like, wait, who is this? What is this idea? Yeah, you know, this like someone is new with a real vision and idea. And they're not only that, but they're, they're pulling it off like they're able to execute it right. Oh. Is this his music of my mind? This is like his his music of my mind.

24:14 This is his off the wall. Yeah. And then you get voodoo, which is like so with with brown sugar. The reason why I say that like it's the beginning is because it's so amazing. It's so good. But he's about to like realize what this vision is on a such a deeper level because of the experience that he has with Brown with brown sugar, which is like what every artist does, right?

24:34 Is like they come in with all these great ideas, but it takes a few years to marinate sometimes and like learn some lessons. As he talks to, I think he's talked about how this album, he's like learning lessons about how to produce and how to do things. And then then you get Voodoo five years later and it's like, oh, he has not only does he have it totally figured out and he's got a real purpose with it, but the culture has also caught up to him, right? It's like, it's like a little bit with music in my mind where the culture kind of wasn't ready for Stevie that that first album.

25:01 But by the time he gets to inner visions, everybody's like, OK, we get it now and we're here with you. And by the time D'Angelo gets to Voodoo, it's like, oh, this is amazing. And also he's speaking artistically. He's found this voice. And then you have that the later period of for him, which is sadly for him, I feel like there was probably more to come that we just didn't get because he tragically passed away.

25:22 So maybe. Still some stuff coming I'm hearing. Oh wow. OK. But Black Messiah is a lot, to me, as musically energetic as these first two. There's a little more wisdom, There's a little more interesting Spectin. Spectin, There's a little more, honestly. He's Black Messiah, which I hope we listen to someday here. He gets so sophisticated with the arranging, the orchestration, you know, he's really stretching the strings. The tonal color palettes that he's using on that one are of a very experienced, seasoned person who's made some amazing music.

25:52 And it's like, usually you get this in 10 albums, right? And we get it in three with D'Angelo, or you get it in like with directors, right? It's like you got Fruitful Station, you got Creed, Creed 2, and then you got Black Panther. And now that's like, you know, Cooglers voodoo, right? And then and then now sinners is in this like classic period, like this like peak period or whatever.

26:10 Listen, Coogler might have like another three films that he's he's really PTA is like in his later period for sure, like there will be blood is definitely his voodoo kind of thing. But man, I love thinking about that because I think there is just in our lives, we change, we go through these stages and it's so cool that art so consistently reflects that with most people. It's really cool.

26:32 Yes, absolutely. And I mean, look, we can't compare. It's it's like with these great artists, it's it's a quality play. It's not a quantity play. The, the quantity varies as, as, as you, as you mentioned with the different film makers, different artists, you know, Prince, somebody incredibly prolific, obviously, you know, keeping that quality level.

26:52 But I mean, the, The thing is a true artist like sticks with like what is given to them? What is, what is the higher power giving to you? And what is the cadence that you can do that? And that's whatever it is. There's no playbook for that. So it's like we celebrate what we're what we're giving when what comes out of that.

27:08 So on that before we move on from all right, I just wanted to play a little bit of the rhythm section on here then, because we're going to listen to the vocals and I wanted to give a shout out to, you know, D'Angelo and Bob Power, who's playing guitar. This is D'Angelo doing all the rhythm section, you know, isolated.

27:24 You can really use some of that roads or that whirly that why off the timing on it. But I really do think that this is like because of these these really interesting groups, I think at the time there was a little bit like, people love this record and we're like, whoa. But there was a little bit of sentiment now that I remember back, just like O'Neill, especially once they got that term out there, which was early, it was kind of like, oh, this is just a throwback. And now it's going to be a fad.

28:08 You know, everything that's old comes around. This is like going to the thrift store and getting the Metallica T-shirt and and that kind of thing. But like what? And you're talking about it taking time for people to catch up. That's what had to catch up was like, Oh, no, this was not just like, I'm going to look like try to dress like Marvin Gaye and and wish that I was living in the 70s.

28:26 You know, it was like it was the IT was about the process of making a record, a very intentional record, taking those influences, but not just those influences. Some of the the 90s, late 80s hip hop grooves and stuff and putting it together in something that had never been heard before, which got coined neo soul, But it was it it that's not just what it was. And I mean, you know, his gospel chops and roots. We're going to go back and just listen to the the vocals. I don't want to tell you that this is stunning because that'll give it away.

28:54 But to me, sue me, I think this is great. No, it's like I was saying in the mix, the vocals are so well set that they're they're not lost. But if you're not like on a killer system at the right volume, you don't hear it like this. That's all. Right, we made from misunderstanding. That's OK, that's OK, because you're my girl and now you're mad and that's just fun.

29:16 That's just we'll be all because all we can do is just talk for. I'm a sucker and they gave it that space. They gave it that space. I'm glad you mentioned Marvin intro in your intro because there's a lot of Marvin. There Oh for sure, for sure, but I mean that Bo Doo Doo Doo hey like. And then he he pulled back on any backgrounds there? Like this is as much about the arrangement. Like when you see things that listed like vocal arrangements, you're just like, oh, yeah, he's singing all the parts. Of course.

30:13 What is he got to claim everything? It's like, yeah, that that's all up in it. Like, what do you leave out so that things can shine? But man, I could sit here and like, we're not going to do it because we got a whole killer album. We got Jones in my bones next, man. And. It's different every time.

30:33 And you know what's interesting about this? So he was able to put these backgrounds, he would be record the lead vocal, then he'd come in one at a time and layer these on. And they were not like written out. They were arranged, but they're arranged up here. And then he'd listen. And then he'd add, what, 2, two years later, maybe three years later when he met Roy Hargrove and they started working together, he realized, and again, this is the cure.

30:58 This is D'Angelo, the curator, the bandleader, the producer, that like the playing chess, that like, Roy could do that. Yeah. With the trumpet background. And he gave him that space in the arrangement. He's like, OK, just add in what you hear in there. And you could say like, oh, yeah, we happen to be around a great trumpet player. So it all came together.

31:15 But knowing how to place that and and to give him that space changes. Yeah. OK. Yeah. You like that, didn't you? OK, now we're going to go on to Jones and My Bones. Envelope filter. Yeah, and this is a little shades of voodoo black Masai made. This is Russell Lovato. Make sure this not Bob powered we're and this is D'Angelo playing everything. Do you like fat with pH bass?

31:57 Yeah, I do. I do I. Remember when I heard the bass on this album? I was like, come on. But it's like 45 seconds of just like vibing before the groove comes in. Yeah, this is really closer to the voodoo vibes if this were like Questlove. Yeah. You could have this on Voodoo and a little right some Roy. Backgrounds.

32:50 Exactly. You could hear this. Yeah. And this is, you know, the beginning. Russell Lovato, who we go on to work with, you know, mixing and tracking most of Voodoo, maybe all of it. And Black Messiah, really, you know, part and parcel with D'angel from this. So this is kind of cool to hear. He's on a couple of these tracks mixing, but you get that sound and those ideas, that creative input. OK?

33:12 So don't, don't say your famous thing. I'm gonna turn that off, but I'm give it to you, right? Right. Again in a second, OK, I want to talk about another record here, which is like, why do we need to talk about another record? This is a killing record, a little thing called Live at the Jazz Cafe in London.

33:30 I love this record. And to me, and it came out, I mean it, well, it came out a couple years later. It's kind of a weird. One of the greatest live albums ever. Yeah, but they recorded it in I believe it's September. It's definitely like in the fall, just a couple months after Brown Sugar came out and they played a lot of the songs off of this.

33:47 You know, he was doing a lot of press and just a few gigs. He was doing some touring though. But I got to tell you, for a couple months, for a new artist that's 21 years old, to get to the level that this band was at with his playing and singing is amazing. So we're going to reference on a couple of these tracks because this is the thing. This is great, what we just heard. I love this intro like that melodic material is so great, but it's very clean.

34:13 It's very, you know, a lot of affectation, studio, not trickery, but studio sound on it. OK, so let me just play that one more time because I do like it. You can have that, but wouldn't you rather? Oh, man, come on. In a little club, Bass. So it's gone from his head now. I'll check this. I'll push.

34:52 Come on, put the jerk up on my temple. What is it on my temple? So look, this is not about like wait. Was I there in a Kangol bucket hat? I feel like I might have been there in a. Kangol bed and this. Was 95, yeah. 95 September 95 Jazz Cafe, which is in Camden in London and really cool place. I, I played there a couple times. I couldn't imagine what a mob seat it must have been because this is like, you know, he had, he had hits out. And but the idea of like that you can go from just a few months before.

35:44 I mean, I probably recorded maybe a year before, but within the year of, of that kind of sound in your mind and then putting it and then to actualize it with the whole band. I think it's just, it's just fantastic. So yes, I do like that record. We'll be hearing more from it. Should we move on? Yeah, me and those dreaming eyes of mine. This is an amazing song man I love this. One this is another good one.

36:03 That's good, by the way, this whole album, like I was just about to say this first half is so good. So is the second-half. Like there's not a bad song on. I mean, there's no bad songs. I mean D'Angelo, but there's no let up. I know they're all bangers. I know I. Thought that there was, there's.

36:18 No, there's no. But upon further listen, I was like, I had a lot, a lot of trouble finding any kind of drop, not weakness, but just drop me and those dreaming eyes of mine. Country. Power. That Hammond, Come on, you. Know when you have the bass that's so sub bass heavy? Yeah. Some of the most powerful things that it does is leave space. Like those breaks between notes are so important. Yes.

37:01 But to place in the mix and just keep that power of that low end on the organ is very difficult technically, technically. Quartet. It goes so hard. This whole album goes so hard man. I'm gonna blow your mind if you like this song. My brother got his energy back. Come on. High 5 D'Angelo, the master of the small little dude.

37:52 The small melodic riff. Well, you know who that is It reminds me of anyway. It's Donny Hathaway. Donny Hathaway on all of those albums, those live albums, his roads playing, the whirly playing where he's doing those little riffs in between his own singing. I think there's a lot of that in this man.

38:08 And and you can just hear that that that influence in it, man. That's a great call. So good, great call. OK if I can find this since since you like this I wasn't planning on this so I have to find it but if you like that. Oh, I love that. Yeah, this. Is with Angie Stone singing background? That'd be nice to have Angie Stone in your back.

38:39 Groove activated. Hey. The bed backgrounds This is this is a killing band. Dynamics, All of his live bands were always killing. It's like Prince, like he had you were. You're so right. In one of his many talents, besides obviously like singing and creating music, was picking personnel. And then leading it and yeah, but not leading like D'Angelo. And I know some people have played with him and stuff. It's like it was very much from the keyboard, from the mic. But that is such a like those dynamics, those. And it's very easy to be like, oh, look who he had. He had, you know, you know, from from this band up to, you know, Chris, Dave and Pinot band.

39:30 It's like, oh, you got these great musicians. No, you still got to pull that shit together. And you know, we we've seen this before, especially back when I mean this is the thing. I don't want to be I don't want to I don't want to old man it up in here. Do it boomer time. OK, now we're going to do a little bit boomer time. No, but it's like not that there's many bands or acts that could release an album now and then go out on what is it? I don't know, and then go out on tour and you know, a couple months later with the hits from that. But we've we used to see this a lot like people and it's like you're going out and doing gigs and even great artists. What would happen if you go to see them? It would not be as good as the

40:03 album because they didn't have the technology to cover it up back then. That's part of it and it's just they didn't have their shit together yet. It was hard to recreate it. The fact that three months later he's out with the band, I would say arguably doing this better than on the record. It's really good.

40:17 You know what I mean? That's that's that's at 20. One, I'll argue with it about with you about that point, but it's it's I think as good as a live album is. Yeah, I mean, it's different, of course. You've got people and this is a cool. I mean, it was a cool gig, you know? OK, so me and those dreaming eyes, I'm glad you liked this because this was like, I kind of forgot about this.

40:33 But this was a big like remix. This was actually the most. This is the the era of the remix, you know? Well, it still exists, but it was really like, like the prime time for that. And so there's a couple good ones. Do you want to hear #1 or #2 you don't know what they are. I mean, I'm going to give you #1 what if something happens? This is Jay Dilla 1997.

40:54 This, this is dope. Might be better than the original. I've never heard this Man. Where have I been on my life? This. The contrast for that Dilla snare sample and those those. Keys. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard. That chromatic chord. Figure that shit out. Peter, What is that?

41:42 I want to know. I don't want. Crunchy. So nasty so. Good man Dylan's base no choices are so weird and wonderful. News flash, Jay Dylan was a great news. No, no, but like what his and like in the cracks and then what he's leaving off we got we got to get Kareem Briggins on this show to break this stuff down and and put his own.

42:32 He's got a Kareem Briggins has a great new album out right now with a producer named Liv. You featured it on Gina. It's incredible. Yeah, on. Fresh fresh take Fridays. OK, if you like that. OK, this is dangerous. It's it's bad to play any other. This one's good too. But I'm have to feel I should have played. I should have reversed it but this is Eric Sermon which I always loved his stuff.

42:51 And Redmond. Yeah. And Redmond, Yeah, yeah. Redmond. Redmond, Joshua Redmond. This was now we're in the 90s, early 90s. Come on. I'm here all day for this. Don't tell me with a good time. This might not have come out tonight, but there's still some of these around then. Damn Peter deep cuts. Here, man, Great pants. That's how we do it.

43:29 Wow, this stuff's not even on the record, but yeah, anyway. So that one, that one was the most remixed one for whatever. It's enough to make me say like shit, damn motherfucker. Which happens to be the name of the next. Yeah, we're not just potty mouths. We're what's funny is wasn't this the wait mid 90s?

43:45 This was like the tip of Gore. Tip of. Gore, this was the What was your thing? Just say no, no that. Was parental advisory stickers. Yeah, this, this one, definitely. I took it off, but it was definitely on it Yes. OK, so now we're coming to shit. Damn motherfucker. And this, this is like this is just D'Angelo and Bob Power.

44:07 You're seeing a a outside of the two of the cuts. A real pattern on this. This is hard. This might be my favorite track. Every track when I once I hear it and I'm in it is my favorite track, but this one is the one I think about a lot. Do you like a nice nasty cheating song? Yes, that's what this is.

44:23 It might be my favorite genre of song. Nasty cheating song? Yeah. Borderline murder Boozy. Murder. Big payback, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's it's ominous. It's it's creepy, not creepy. It's it's nefarious already, right. And I love to build on this. Double it. That's crazy. And then a little jazzy release, like, like maybe it's not true.

44:56 They're tipping. Oh, it's true. No, we've been power. It ain't even started yet. What happened to this? What happened for a minute of just vibing? Can we do that are. You sleeping with a woman? OK. It's a great question. It's a great. Question. It's valid man. This is the most direct tracked. There's no.

45:36 Allegory or simile or metaphor? Why are you sleeping with my woman? It's not even a setup of I came home early from work. There's none of that. And apparently, damn. And you know what? He he that Would you not feel that way? Yeah. It's not what you'd say. Shit. Damn. What the? Be the first thing I would say.

45:56 Apparently people ask D'Angelo like in interviews with this all blew up or like, what's the story all that? They're like, what do you mean? They're like in Virginia, this happens all the time. He's like, that's oh, float on into the next purse. I mean this might be. Motherfucker, how do you make it sound so pretty?

46:18 I used to think that was an ugly word, but not after this. That's so good, man, That's so good. Let's keep going. I could. I could talk forever about. It well, I could also say if you like that, wouldn't you live? Version. This is 1. That it is cool that there's like the studio version. Made. The studio version is hard to beat.

46:38 It's great that you're showing this, like, because this came out right as the album was coming. Out the tipping part is hit on this. I think they just go harder. I think I saw a shark. I don't know if it was shark. I mean. They go big man. In a live context, it makes so much sense. So good, so good.

47:13 I want to get this smooth because we have. I want to just, I just want to, I want to go, I want to go sit in front of the Jazz Cafe in Camden and London with, with some B&O headphones on and just listen to this with my eyes closed. I don't care if I get robbed. I don't care what they if it rains every day.

47:28 I don't care, Suey. OK. What'd you say? You heard it here folks. London, be on the lookout. No, I want to get to smooth because we actually have not only do have a friend of the show, actually a couple friends of the show on this. Friends of mine, we. Actually interviewed the guitarist on this next track back up you remember the remember the I'm going to take you back to 2020 Peter January 2020 was. It still out?

47:48 No, this was. After no. January 2020? Yes. Before the COVID pandemic. What's that? When we, you, me and our good friend Sean Wilde, we're in New Orleans. Yes, New Orleans is what we were saying back then. And we were at the Gen. Conference and we interviewed 1 Mark Whitfield for this show. Yes, we did. Do you remember that?

48:05 I absolutely do. Now that you've reminded me. I remembered it. I remember that's where it was. That was great. Well, you, we're going to hear right at the beginning of the strike. This is Mark Whitfield. Just cutting like a dagger through there. Mark Whitfield. Man, his whole personality. Personality.

48:23 Shredding, shredding. Yeah. And this is. The groove what? Gene Lake on the drums, Larry Grenadier on the bass. At this time, the Brad Mehldau Trio. OK, I I got to just play. This is one of the great little like to me. This is almost like, well, I think Larry said something about this like it's almost like Count Basie where you're like, oh, that's so simple, but it's so perfect. But this little line, this piano line, and this is some of the, there's not a lot of acoustic piano that D'Angelo plays on this record, but there is some.

49:03 And this is some of, but this little, little melody line, it's just so perfect. And I was saying like, I like, well, I'm going to play it and I'll tell you what. Tinkly Basie that Tinkly Ahmad Jamal. What would I have played? You. You would have marked Whitfield. The hell. Out I would have but and then the the sort of not antithesis, but the the the the contrary, the contrast to what Whitfield just played for sure Oh so great.

49:35 And this minor 65. It's a little. Sneaky. Jazz, right? Definitely jazzy. It's like Henry Mancini, like, is it jazz? Sharp 9 chord there. Yeah. There's a great piano solo on this too, yeah. Yeah, we're going to get to that a little later. As in the categories though. So, I mean, could D Angelo have been it could have been a jazz pianist, almost. Interesting you would say that, yes. And I, I don't know that this is a pivotal point, but this is straight from D Angelo's mouth talking about a really interesting thing from the same interview we heard earlier, which was I believe from like around 2014, something like that.

50:33 I'm going to pass you to this guy at VCU who still. Yeah, in Virginia, who still taught at VCU. It was Ellis Marsalis, Wynton's father, who's still teaching at VCU, and I went and auditioned for Ellis Marsalis and James Moody. Matter of fact, James Moody was up there and I was like 1314 and got on the piano and I played.

51:02 I played the Anita Baker song because it was the jazziest song I could think of. That's so. Funny. Or so I put in the Baker and you know, they were impressed and like, Ah, that's good young blood and wow, I was like, you're so you know, are you going to teach me? So I get to you know, it's like, Nah, I'm I'm getting ready to leave.

51:25 So he's getting ready to leave that year and go teach back in New Orleans. So I never got a chance to really get any like jazz training or what have you like that. But I always felt like that was a good thing that I didn't why? Because it it would have changed my whole style, I would have changed my whole style of plan.

51:45 That's what it meant to be, I guess. Yeah, man, what a what a wise old soul. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, I. Mean, it's a real sliding doors moment. You know, if Ellis Marsalis is there for another three years and he's like, yeah, let's do it. I mean, D'Angelo could have been Sullivan Fortner before Sullivan Fordner, you know what I mean? Like I know.

52:05 It's like, what do you expose? Like, wait, wait, where's the intersection? Serendipity, right? It's like, what? What's meant to be? We just mentioned two 90s ROM coms, by the way, sliding door serendipity, so shout out, but yeah, it is It is like. Shut up, Matthew McConaughey, I. Also meant I wouldn't be lying if I thought sometimes the same thing about me, like if I didn't have a band director shout out Jeff Melcha in my sophomore year in high school. Thanks a lot for all the Herbie Hancock CD's, man. Yeah.

52:29 No, but I mean someone who's pointing me towards straight ahead jazz very heavily and got me lessons and those lessons led to gigs really early and that led to a path of this, that and the other. Like, I wonder about that Sliding doors moment, and I wonder too, about the money. Well, yeah, I know. More or less I don't know.

52:47 I'm kidding. No, but but you know, maybe that's a little bit what he's talking about. It's like there is like a limiting mindset sometimes, not in jazz musicians ever, but in like the jazz industry about what it could be, what the sound is, how how broad it is. And there's not in other in other forms of the music.

53:03 You know what's crazy about this? I just realized like I had met Ellis Marsalis right before this when I was in high school and I was actually thinking about going. I've met Wint Marsalis before that He had talked about, you know, you should, you should study with my dad. He could show, he'll show he because Wint was helping with different things every time he come to Saint Louis and was a mentor to me and to Minnie.

53:24 And he's like, you should study. And then I think he told me or I found out that Ellis had gotten this position at VCU in Virginia. And when I was thinking about, you know, going to music school, I really want to play jazz. And I was like, can I go to New York? But there wasn't like there was jazz programs, but not like there is today. And so I kind of had my mind on it. And I remember calling because you used to have to call on the telephone and say hello, you know. Yeah, a little bit.

53:50 I was. It's Mr. Marsalis. But I called him and was like, I, I'd love Ellis Ellis. Ellis Marsalis, in fact, went and gave me his number in Virginia and I called him on a landline. We were going landline to landline back there with my friend. Yeah. And I remember we talked, he's like, yeah, well, you know, the program, he kind of discouraged me 'cause he's like, I'm not really sure about the program or how much longer I'm going to be here. Wow.

54:11 And then I heard this guy playing Anita Baker in the background. Now it's all coming together. No, I didn't hear that. But he discouraged me. And sure enough, the next year he went back to your own, started the program at the. Same time for you and D Angelo, we're both talking about he was. Yeah.

54:25 Well, actually now that I just put that together, me and like 100 other. Like Sliding doors moment you could have gone to music school studying with Ellis Marsalis and been a peer of. Well, more more importantly, I could have been hanging with D'Angelo and made it on this record, but yeah, no, but I was. That is crazy. 17.

54:41 Yeah, it was. 17 that it is crazy. It is crazy. I'm not by the way, I'm not trying to discourage anybody from a career in jazz at all. It is just an interesting thought. It's like, I mean, for all of us, it's like you get on these paths and like just one decision gets made or one person points you in a direction and like, you know, now that's your whole life. I think D'Angelo was and look, I'm projecting some, this is not like I'm not a journalist and I, I didn't know him. I know a lot of people that know him and I've heard the same stories most people have.

55:07 But you just got the feeling from listening to interviews and researching for this and listen to his music. And when you love somebody's music so much, you do start to project certain things on. Of course, I may be doing that, but I have the feeling he's just one of those people. We all know people like this that they're just so damn good at, like doing what they're supposed to do in this world.

55:26 You know, they don't get caught up with like what you're saying, like, like you're even questioning. You know, if I had in my band, like, I don't think he questioned. He's just like, no, I didn't. Say it just wasn't meant to be it. Wasn't meant and then later on I'm I'm willing to wait till later on to have that filled in when that other door opens like just to give themselves and that's a very rare thing.

55:45 I'm not good at that at all. No, to be perfectly clear, I think I'm I'm exactly where I should be. Like just with all my skills have luckily come together to be sitting in front of this microphone with you, my friend. But it is it is these interesting moments that happen early in our life that dictate the rest of our life.

55:59 Man, it's like I think about and I connect D'Angelo so much with Roy Hargrove and, and they their musical camaraderie and their, their brotherhood through the music and kind of like, you know, this intersection of hip hop, soul, jazz, gospel, that they were both such just so much innately. And then Raphael Saadiq. Like these different people that come together where they're just like they're, you're connected and you know it, you know? OK, Peter, this next track.

56:23 Cruising. Cruising. I love the original Smokey Robinson. Yeah, Susan, I'm not going to sue you Cruising together. Let's do. It and I love this porn. You would not be the first to say that. On both, I mean those both are amazing, but this is. And #3 the highest level. Is this at the Jazz Cafe? No, they didn't do this also. It's like we're now in the back half of the album. Yeah, perfect place for a color.

56:49 #7 out of 10. Perfect spot. Just when you're like, OK, I'm learning all these new songs. I've never heard these sounds before. Have a little Smokey Robin. Oh man, you know, have a little childhood. How can we all? Can we gather on the fire the soul fireplace? Come on, kids. And this one's interesting too, because this is I think, the only track is entirely played, produced everything by D Angelo, and I think it's the one with strings, too. Now let's go Dominant 7.

57:37 Dominant 4. I mean, I think about this was from 1979, right? Yeah. I think about his choice of covers on these first two albums. He does this on Brown Sugar and he does feel like making love that Roberta Flack made famous from from. That first take. It was that first take, I think. Yeah, yeah. And it just shows you. I mean, it backs up what we're talking about here, his love for those 70s soul music that sound, you know, are. Both of those right up there with the originals. I think both of those for me, in my humble opinion, I like better than the original and I know I got some Flack when I said that about Feel like Making Love when we did our Voodoo album. I stand by it, man, that version

58:28 of Feel like Making love on Voodoo is it might. I mean, it's one of the better tracks on that whole album is great, which is full of great tracks. Another no no skip album, you know what I mean? So. I think too like it's it's hard for us to remember like how revolutionary or evolutionary like the sound of this record you really hear on this track in mid 90s R&B when you talk about boys demand.

58:50 Mariah Carey was huge. Yes, Sir. I mean, there's great records out of this time, but this was. Like, no, all of those artists were amazing. Jodeci Yeah, like all that stuff. I. Couldn't Landis Morrissette had probably the biggest record of this period? R&B Landis. Morrissette No, but I'm just, you know, the Jagged Little R&B and Jason.

59:05 That was a huge monster album, but yeah, yeah. Man, there were some people like me listening to. I had both those CDs my friend. Jagged Little Pill. Absolutely. You had Jagged. I love that record. I had That was actually a year before this though wasn't. It no, I was 90. 5 Was that OK? I think so, yeah. I was a good record.

59:20 Cool. Cool. Cruising. I like it. I love it. Yeah. OK. Hey Peter, we were just talking about that feel like making love from D'angelo's Voodoo album. Did you know that I did a whole lesson on that song? That version of the song, all of the harmonic moves, the mobile interchange that happened. It's.

59:37 Great, remember I was here. With you. But yeah. Oh yeah, on my course, the Harmony Games Unlimited at Open Studio Jazz. And just today, literally this morning as I speak this, I recorded a lesson on the last track of Brown Sugar Higher, also from that course. Yeah. How many games Unlimited. Yeah.

59:55 We're not just jazz here. We're jazz adjacent. We're we're soul. We what we like to do is take that lens of jazz and shine it does a lens shine. We don't know. We're looking at it. We're looking through that jazz lens because it exposes so much great stuff in soul music, R&B, great music. That's right. So if you're looking to not just enjoy the great music of people like D'Angelo, Stevie Wonder, and jazz musicians too like Bill Evans, Duke Ellington, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, check out open studiojazz.com.

1:00:23 Go to open studiojazz.com/yhi to start your free trial. That's open studiojazz.com/yhi for your jazz lesson needs. There he is, back to the show. OK, we're moving on to track #8 we got a little more jazz. I I have this listed as jazzy #2 for sure OK, there might even be a little straight up swing on this when we get by. This is another one of the Russ Elavado mixes, just for those of you following at.

1:00:51 Home. Shout out to Russ Elavado. We didn't talk about enough on him enough on the voodoo episode, although we did talk about him a lot. But he still deserves so much credit on these things, man. He's his sound is so distinct. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's straight up tipping. Yeah, Ben, this song has grown on me so much over the years. I love this.

1:01:17 I used to skip all. I was kind of a jazz purist. For sure this is not. A nerdy jazz purist. It doesn't swing like Art Blakey. I can't listen to it. I mean, I was damn. You're still listening to Art Blakey live at this time, you know. What pulls this together? Is this the melody? Yeah. I love the 90s. Man, I want to go back.

1:02:07 Man, nobody unfollowed me then. Just everything smelled like Drakar Noir. No, no, no YouTube comments saying the bald one I could get by. You know what's interesting on this too, is that I got him, I got him. No, I realized this whole record, and we're going to talk right after this about is this too clean or as I don't want to give away what D'Angelo calls his own record, but because of maybe a cleaner Sonic palette that's provided in the mixes compared to Voodoo, for sure you can understand everything D'Angelo's singing.

1:02:47 We talked about this with Voodoo. You can understand. So sublimated in the mix and even a little more mumbly in the performances on Voodoo. Yeah, which Kayla producer Kayla was like, I mean, it's kind of good. It's a pretty dirty album if you'd listen to what he's singing. This. Was Crystal Well, this is a few things that you're kind of but it's like shit damn motherfucker elocution, but it's but a lot of it is the mix, you know, so in fact, actually this is a good this is D'Angelo speaking, you know, years later about this record and sort of some very interesting thoughts specifically about kind of the sound of it and the mix of it. And so we went into the studio to record. I mean, it was really like a, in

1:03:33 my opinion. I felt like after it was done, I loved it, but there were certain songs that I felt it lost something between the demo version and all of the production that went into it. I felt like it lost, like it got a little homogenized in my opinion. That's very, very interesting. I remember hearing something about it that he was like learning from this experience and put that into voodoo. And it might have been something I read on Voodoo itself, but like, that's very interesting to hear him say that, you know, and you can hear how much more organic he goes in in Voodoo five years later, you know, and how much of more of a band album that is even.

1:04:14 It's not just him, right? It's like all of these amazing musicians that are really jamming for years to get that album. And I think it kind of validates a little bit my, my, my, my thoughts in terms of the live stuff right after this being a little bit closer to his vision on it, perhaps. But let's just hear.

1:04:30 OK, You ready for the big hit? You ready? You want to hear Rafael Saidiq, who's, you know, Co wrote this famously, Lady with D'Angelo. You want to hear me talking about this first, or you want to just jump in? You do whatever you need to. Do I started? Playing, Rafael said he. Lady, that's the first thing we worked on was lady, I played it the guitar riff for D'Angelo and he said he said I like it. I said cool.

1:04:55 So I was going to call somebody over to be to play my guitar parts over He he said no, you should leave what you did. And that's the first time my guitar playing playing ever got on the record. Never got on the record. Yeah. So, but I think the how how we came up with that, we figured it out. We was we were playing and we were playing behind the beat.

1:05:18 But I think we were just really trying to lock, lock something in. And so he would fall back and he would start laughing, then I would fall back. And we started kind of smiling and laughing. And it became, we just kept going back and forth, but not talking about it. And it became sort of the style of his record. But that's the way he sing sings, that's the way he plays. And it's just natural for him.

1:05:43 But he's a Dilla fan. And so then, you know, I'm a Dilla fan too. So I figured it out later. We were just mocking Dilla. Are we just are. We heard it through hip hop. Yeah, right. Maybe just not. Just maybe we heard it on some, on some, on some Wu Tang records. Maybe we heard it on some Tribe records.

1:06:00 That's cool. We just love, I love hip hop. Yeah, right. So that's very cool. Both our love for the Hawk is in gospel and hip hop and rock and songwriting. It's just it was just a perfect storm at the right time. Shout out Justin Richmond, front of the pod, guest of the pod. That was from his interview for Broken Records. Here's lady.

1:06:26 You heard that? Yeah, I think Raphael had that line together. That's it for me, that when the bass comes in there, that's all I need. I've started the course, a good course start. Let's do it, intro. That's an important part of the floor, man. It usually comes later, though. It's all right. 01 of the greatest songs of the 1990s.

1:06:54 Yes. Don't think I'm sleeping, looking at you, all of them. And there's a bunch. Of them, is this the biggest hit? I think so right here. Here's that line again. Said bass as well. And guitars. We got to get some bigger speakers in here, man. We got to get a better sound system. I know, but I want to hear that. I want to feel it.

1:07:40 OK, again, that's what. A great partnership, him and Rafael Sadiq. It's so cool that he had this mentor. They did hits together. That's nice. Perhaps you'd rather? No. I don't know. Check the. OK, maybe. It's not either or Man Live Soul Records. This is channeling Donny Hathaway live at the bitter end.

1:08:18 It's different, not better. Unbelievable. Free open form. You have to be able to click. Track It's a little Teddy Pendergrass in this one live version. He couldn't have done that many gigs while he did do a lot of gigs in church. You're so seasoned though. That's something that might interest you. So good.

1:09:13 Man, this is the kind of thing, how many gigs have you been on, especially in your younger years, where stuff like this just goes disaster? You can't. I mean, I've. Never been on a gig like that, I'll be honest. Oh man. And later on, I'm going to jump ahead just to really they really start. Yeah, it's fun.

1:10:06 We're having fun. We're just, we're just having fun here on a, on a on a Thursday. That's so great and ultimate track on the album too. There's only one left, and. Yeah. How did that happen that the that the big hit was? #9. Was buried down there. Happens a lot, man, it happens a lot. But #10 first of all, can I just say just my, my, my lizard brain loves the 10. My my Roman brain loves the 10 woman. That's Monty Python.

1:10:32 Thank you loves the 10 track album. There's just something very clean about it. That's right XX. But the the higher this is, I love it. I love this so. Much should we maybe jump in as we're coming towards the end of the episode? Jump into the tracks for sure, for sure. I mean the category, sorry.

1:10:48 So we have, as you like to say, we have 10 categories, right? 9810, just like you like it. And this the first category is Desert island tracks and this is my desert island. Track. It's higher and he's gonna end with church. Yeah, exactly. It's Ralph, I believe. It's roll is how you pronounce it. Ralph roll, Ralph roll, I think, on the drums. Rich rolls, brother, my friend.

1:11:21 Doubt it Will Lee on the bass from The Late Show with David Letterman's band. That's. Such a church entrance to 00. My goodness, it's so great. It's not going anywhere. Peter, come on, we're not going anywhere. I don't have an appointment. Appointment with the Lord. Organ playing on it is so amazing. Oh.

1:11:58 Kick your tick bed. Everybody's doing the right thing. Doing the right thing or. When I think about you, I. Love that. Am I doing? Watching and watching over, right? I love you, right? I love you, right? I love you. Please give us strength alone. Love to fight our battles and we can walk over. The streets are cold.

1:13:02 I mean, it's not just soul music of the 70s, it's gospel music of the 70s, straight up, you know, and. These are not all gospel musicians. They came up with the church like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about, leadership. They're even planning on leadership. Bob Power, Willie, I, I, I don't know. I doubt they did, but they're playing it. The changes are killing all this. I mean this.

1:13:45 With everything is so great on this record, this might be like D'angelo's right down the middle of his lane. I mean, this is what he's been doing since he's a kid. And this is like, you just feel like, you know. Oh, and I mean this is his highest creativity for vocal arrangements on this record too. You put the CD of the CD player, go for it B. Yeah, so I'm on the I'm on the desert island. I mean, I'm cool.

1:15:00 Yeah, you're good with the. Lord, every day this is. I'm getting right with the Lord. I'm being entertained. Man. The soul is satisfied. Yeah. This, I, I just think that like his, he's so creative on everything. Hip hop, soul, talk about gospel, jazz, you know, rock, especially later on, you know, but like, I don't know, maybe gospel is like sometimes you know, he's got rage, but when he comes here for sure just he because he gets it's so creative everything he's doing. What I love about this track for me is this has been like coming back to Brown Sugar over the years as an album. This one means more to me as the years go by. When I was 15, when I first heard this album, I didn't really get it.

1:15:42 I didn't wasn't that interested in it. It's why my desert island track is Brown Sugar, just because the nostalgic factor of it, like of remembering high school parties with it playing, remembering driving around in my 84 S 10 with it bumping of like of like feeling like I was like it's something from my generation, like a new kind of music that I've never heard before. So Brown Sugar is my desert island. But man, higher means probably the most to me right now. For this whole album.

1:16:10 That's great. Apex moment what do? You got, so I've got. This would be apex moment means like the the our our personal opinions on the highlight of the album. Yeah. And this is very counterintuitive because there's a bunch of moments that I first wrote down on hire that are true. I mean, like to me that track, it's almost, you know, in a different way stylistically and temple wise, but it's like a music in my mind to evil, like in a way. There's no debate like the apex moment of the album. It all leads.

1:16:38 It is leads to Rome, right, I think you're right. So there's that, but. Second Rome reference. Well, this is the X but so I'm going a little counterintuitive, but I like my new thing is on apex moments I'm trying to find little weird hidden things that are just like woo like fun things that you would expect. We like fun around here.

1:16:56 We like. Fun. Yeah. So D'angelo's piano playing, how smooth we talked about, but I love his solo. Like he was not known as like this. Incredible. I mean, he had a lot of jazz. He's a good solo and jazz harmony, but he wasn't like ripping and running on that. But on this, I don't know, man. There's some killing stuff and it's not even an official solo.

1:17:18 Kind of sneaks in there though. Come on. He could have done it. He could have learned how to. But I mean, the reality is that's all the jazz piano most people want to hear anyway. One. 100% that's all. That's all a lot of ours so. He nailed it. Yeah, but you know what that reminded me of, Man? Talk about Jay Dilla. So I I got your spirits up.

1:17:58 I got you higher earlier, but man, I can't take it. Man, I forgot about this. You might not know. Can we do some Dilla on this show either? We got to do a whole Dilla show. We, we, my, my dream's been the whole Riggins going to be sitting here in the middle of us and we're going to be like, high fiving about.

1:18:11 Yeah, but check this out, OK. And then I can tell my Kareem Riggins story when he came and played with us with Roy Hargrove when I first met him when he was 20 years old and killed it. You might not know this as one of D'Angelo's greatest piano solos, but check this out. I love this track. This is common, right? This is common.

1:18:30 Dilla beat from what? Is this the light? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And there's it's similar to the little sneaky and it's got this great mix on the. Yeah, exactly. And he's speaking in with so great Common stuff I'm going to sneak ahead. Sorry. Is that a D'Angelo? That's D'Angelo.

1:19:21 I I RIP, I steal this. Yeah, I do that. You talk about knowing what to play right there. That line man this gets me everything. This turned into a Dilla show. Check this line. Out to that Dominus 7, that's another Donnie thing, another Donnie Hathaway thing thrown in that Dominus 7 when over the Major 7. Herbie octaves.

1:20:09 Come on. Yeah, So anyway, that's man, the whole rest of this thing is just killing. So your apex moment is a Dilla track. What's D'Angelo playing solo on a different? Record my apex. Moment I highlighted the other record that I thought was. My apex moment from Brown sugar Peter is you didn't. Want me to play you that and?

1:20:26 Tell you that it was D'Angelo. We do have to do a Dilla episode for sure. Come on, I feel like you just I know. I love it so much when the bass drops on lady, like when that first you're my lady and the bass comes in. I feel like that's to me the greatest moment of the whole album, if not the greatest moment of 1995, right? You know.

1:20:44 This was 1995, not this version. I love the live version. I'm talking about the studio. Yeah, yeah. What is that? Reverse bass. Oh, and it's like he somehow gets that rhythm in. Killing with the bass drum. So good. What do you got for a bespoke playlist title? I got bridge builders, I think, you know, bringing the different styles, hip hop soul, not neo soul, jazz, gospel.

1:21:19 As we said, what? Do you got? I have not neo soul, but I have Neo Bam. So you know, you mentioned these bridge builders, right? This is like soul hip hop, jazz. Like this to me is why Nicholas Payton coined that term black American Music and has been pushing for the use of it to define this because the sensibilities of this philosophical alignment of those three kinds of music is so evident in black American Music.

1:21:46 It is it is the IT is the DNA of it. And this album is black American Music at its core, at its best. And it is the in 1995, like the pinnacle of, of really all music in in America. To me, this album was, but like to me it, it, it combines all of those elements in a way that I think for my ear, all black American Music has like it's, it's just a continuous thread. There's the genres are a bunch of usually like marketing exec BS, you know what I mean?

1:22:22 I mean, even we learned here, you know, everybody said does birth of a new genre, Neo soul and Angel himself is like that's not how I see it. I see it as black music. And I think there's something important for all people who make music to think about how that artist is that you love thinks about how they make their music because it helps us make music like the sensibilities and the, the way the black American Music is is made is as important, the culture of that is as important as anything else as any of the sounds or anything that we're getting here. So I, I think you can't, you can't take the gospel out of jazz.

1:22:59 You can't take the jazz out of soul. You can't take the soul out of hip hop. Like it's all connected. You can't take the D out of Angelo 100% Why it's D Angelo. Thank you for that. Yeah. And I think that's but this is what makes it so fun to like deconstruct or just to look at the construction of this stuff because when you have something that's great, you know, if you believe that it's great or if you don't care what whatever. But it's like to go in and see, you know, what are the gospel elements?

1:23:25 What were the details that were worked on? Like this stuff isn't just it's not just random improvisatory of like look at genius just came up with this. Like the craft that goes into this, especially when you're bringing in these different elements, is is it's it's it, it's uncanny for sure. Yeah.

1:23:40 So that was bespoke place. Oh. Oh, quibble bits. This will be an interesting one. What's your quibble? Bit so mine really is I mean it really is a small bit, but like some of the drum loops, I do wish that there was Questlove. I do wish that he had like like we were we were listening to me and those dreaming eyes, right?

1:23:56 I think that was one of the ones we were listening to and I was like, man, I wish that was on Voodoo so that I could hear Pino Palladino and Questlove play on that. And Roy, you know what I mean? Like now that's a very like, I still love this whole album and I love the drum samples, but if I had to, if I had to put something in this category, it would be that. Well, you can just listen to Jazz Cafe and that's, that's what I'm saying.

1:24:16 That's there's your solution right there. Evangelist for Jazz cafe? What's your equivalent? Bit that is this record maybe similar to that, but not so much so much with the drum loops. But is it too, in the words of D'Angelo, homogenized? And also in that interview, he goes on to call it buttery. Interesting.

1:24:34 He felt that is. And I I mean. Too clean and too pristine. Yeah, well, the the interviewer actually said is too clean. He's like not clean. He's just like buttery interesting, you know? Is the is it too he said some of the tracks, some of the stuff that he felt was ready to go off of the demos that he human power had done over those three months.

1:24:48 Yeah, he felt that the the gene on him after that. Are those demos anywhere in your research? That would have been something, yeah. If only we had an hour and a half podcast, we could have played those on Come Back. I used to admit when I was writing a lot of more pop songs, I love making demos. And I would, I would. It was a problem.

1:25:03 You get attached to those demos, you know, It's like it's hard not to. But to tell you the truth, that's not even I mean, Paul, listen to this because we have jazz cap. I actually love that we have this studio version. I think it's great. My my actual quibble bit would probably be the strings on cruising, which I think are the only strings on here.

1:25:18 It's just I, you know, they're way in the background to. I think it might actually be better if you could hear them. Better, I think they're good, but I think there's you're right, there's something a little bit that could be a little better. That later he does on his last record he does snubometer. Yeah, the strings on Black Messiah are amazing. Amazing.

1:25:33 I have a three. OK, I have a 5 so that comes out to 8. That's not how it works. OK, is it better? So this is interesting. That's what we're going to do. We're not even going to. Talk about it anymore. We don't talk about thermometer. So you so usually you have like, is it better than Kind of Blue?

1:25:47 Or for an album like this, we might do is it better than Stevie Wonder's Inner Visions? But you have. You have. Is it better than Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill? Because I knew we were going to talk about it. I I don't have prescient of me right? I, you know, I actually do also love Jagged Little pill stick in high school, like it was such popular music. I, I never bought that album or anything like I bought this one, but I do love a lot of those songs. But I do think that yes, it is better than Jagged Little. Pill, I'd agree, yes, but I think Jagged Little pill, I wouldn't mind that showing up on this. I'm just wondering.

1:26:16 If we do, Jagged Little Pill producer Liz in Canada would probably appreciate. Yeah, I mean, there's some great stuff on there. I mean, I don't know if like we get it like some of these records we get into and it's like, Oh yeah, it's great as expect. Like this these really, really great ones. Like the more you go back to him, be like, oh, oh, like there's so many layers. I don't know.

1:26:33 There's definitely some layers there, but not like on this one. Accoutrements. So the cover, the album notes, the back cover. What do you think? Man, I'm going 9 and because I think the back cover is so just a reminder. Yeah, I mean, that's so not like that soul. That's R&B, that's hip hop, that's 90s. Got the Big Timberlands on and I love this picture in here. I love the one with the piano.

1:26:55 It's a great jacket. It's great. Boots great. Jeans model D'Angelo was have you seen the Vanity Fair shop? I mean, just a superbly attractive man, but with at the piano. I love piano. So that's a great one that that look and his hair to me, the only thing that pulls it back from A10 in a way is the cover. I I would give the cover an 8 only because it looks like the background's been removed, which is easy to do on your iPhone now.

1:27:17 And they did. I mean it's great, but I think all these other pictures, the whole package is. I have 9. I have 9 as well. OK, what do you got in up next? Oh. You're going to be shocked at this Live at the Jazz Cafe. Live at London Jazz Cafe. OK, because that's. Literally what? What? What do you have all? Been I have Baduizm 1997, couple years later Erykah Badu kind of solidifies this quote UN quote genre. Yeah.

1:27:44 Absolutely so Soulquarian now that that we should be talking about Soulquarians as opposed to the yeah, Neo soul. Agreed. You know what? We are back on Apple podcasts. Apple podcast loves us. We got featured as a new on the new page. We've been making a lot of moves over there. Yeah, it's great. But we do want to remind.

1:28:00 Of our Ambie nominations. OK, let's not brag. We do want to remind you though, that we really appreciate any ratings and review reviews you put for this podcast, whether that's on Apple Podcast or Spotify or on YouTube. Give us a rating and review. Now if you're not like a technological working in Silicon Valley, it can be difficult.

1:28:17 I'm going to put that out there. Is that a good for Apple podcast? Yeah, to get to the review you. Can do it you can. Do it. You got to log. In I mean we have hundreds. Of them, yeah, we do. Actually. It's not hard at all. That's a challenge for you. So here's a couple. This one is from Fletch NYCI.

1:28:28 Think that's Chevy Chase's account. It says my no. It's the guy from Saint from Ledoux. Actually it's my favorite new podcast. Great tunes and expert analysis. This one is from Curious House Hunter and this is I stumbled upon this podcast accidentally while looking for jazz piano tutorials. It has become a weekly ritual.

1:28:44 Listen to Adam and Peter discuss amazing music, some of which I grew up with, but some they've introduced me to. This podcast has brought a tremendous amount of joy into my life, in addition to being warm and funny and authentic. Adam and Peter, I think. It's a warm and fuzzy and authentic. Musicians and the intro and outro musical arrangements are fantastic.

1:29:02 I'm also an open studio member. Shout out curious how Hunter house Hunter, so I will give that a plug here as well. I appreciate that as a lifetime classically trained pianist, I'd long given up transitioning to jazz, but I'm giving it one more shot. Thanks so much for all the work that goes into the show, it's truly special.

1:29:17 Thank you, House Hunter. And a reminder, if you want to learn more about some of the piano courses we make at Open Studio, go to Open studiojazz.com/YHI and start your 14 day free trial. Peter, you got anything else? I think that's it, man. I'm inspired, man. Just I'm thankful. I'm thankful for this record, record. I'm thankful for you.

1:29:33 I'm thankful for my family, for my parents. I'm not going to name everything. Like an acceptance speech, Oscars came early. I want to just, I've been so excited about the nomination. Buddy, we didn't win the Ambie. Just a reminder, OK? Forget it until next time you'll hear it. The. The. The. The.

1:32:35 The. The. Music. None. The. Music.