Rob Lowe Names Names: The Power of ‘Screw It’

0:00 So you decide to do a socket dance for the opening of the Oscars. Can't dance. Okay, okay. I mean, I didn't get foot loops for a reason, right? And it doesn't go well is what you're saying? It doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. There was an open letter to the Academy the next day, signed by like Paul Newman and Gregory Peck and like this was in a front to our sensibility.

0:29 How did it? I mean, I looked out in the audience and I saw, oh, it was the night, Barry Levinson, one 10 Academy Awards for Rain Man. And I literally saw him. Mouth, what the fuck? Didn't go well. Debarro Align from Heidi Klum in Hollywood, one day you're in and the next you're out, but not for Rob Lowe.

0:55 He has been a fixture since the 1980s and has had decades worth of iconic roles from St. Elmo's fire to the outsiders, to the West Wing to parks and wreck. In an industry that choose him up and spits him out, how his Rob Lowe stayed relevant for so long? It's not just his good looks and yes, he is very good looking.

1:18 It's something else. The real secret to Rob's longevity is something more powerful. As he puts it, he's got a serious case of the fuck-ins. He likes taking risks, knowing full well that they don't always work out. But the thrill of doing something new is exactly the thing that has helped him find opportunities where others don't.

1:38 In addition to the movies and TV shows, he's also the host of the podcast literally with Rob Lowe and his host of the floor, which airs its fourth season on September 24th unfox. This is a bit of optimism. How old were you when you got famous? Young, very young. The first time, because then it came in the first minute.

2:09 Oh, really? Yeah, because I got famous as a teen idol, right? And then it didn't work. And what was the thing that put you on the map? It was a sitcom called A New Kind of Family. And I was 15. And so you're like the... You were on the cover of Teen Beat. Y'all that, all that stuff. Bop, Teen Beat. So maybe just because I'm just a fucking old pervert, there's something about...

2:39 Oh wait, I just put it together. And Bop. Wait, I just put that together in this moment. The minute you said pervert, immediately I understood... Teen Beat. Made that association. Teen Beat? You've just... Are they kidding with that? Bop. But you were on the cover. That's worse. She Bop. No, no, I get it.

3:00 But you were on the cover. That's the worst part. Y'all, yeah. You were a teen. So I was a... I was a cover boy at 15. Yeah. And then had an early midlife crisis at 17, 16 and 17 didn't work. Because they hired on the 18-year-olds to play younger, because of the child labor. Right. Laws. How long you could work on a set?

3:23 And I just didn't work for two and a half years and I thought my career was over. And then I got the outsiders. And that was a whole other level of fame. That's moving. That's moving. That started it. Yeah. Yeah. Because you... There's a... I have a friend. You're relatively grounded. I mean... I'll go relatively.

3:42 Relatively. Yes. Relatively. I have a friend who has a theory that when people achieve fame, any kind of growth that they have ceases... Oh, I have a... When they get... It's true. Yeah. And so like, child actors are screwed, because they stop growing and they think... They think everybody says yes to you is normal.

4:02 Yes. Whenever... That's 100% true. Unless you do a ton of work on yourself, you're frozen in amber. Right. The minute you get famous. Yes. So when people achieve adult fame, they're a little more grounded because they know where they came from, hopefully. And they... And they've... Well, now also have experienced just by virtue of time.

4:27 They've experienced more life. But your career is kind of amazing, because you have... And this is a credit to you. You have been able to remain relevant for... Forever. I mean, you were part of the... The Brat Pack. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah. You know, John Hughes and that crew. Yeah. I mean, that's my childhood.

4:49 I grew up watching all of your movies. And... And I think... I watched the documentary. I watched... The Brat Pack doc. The Brat Andrew McCarthy. The Brat Andrew McCarthy. And to your credit and Demise credit, like, you guys... Like, didn't get sucked into it. It wasn't... You've maintained careers and relevance.

5:10 Up until now. We didn't let that define us. Didn't define you. What... Like, was there a strategy to remain current? Like, what... What is it that makes one actor be able to survive for decades? And another actor be a blip in time... No fault of their own. Just like, they're super hot for a while. And then they're just not.

5:29 Sure. It's not that they're not talented. It's not that they're not good. It's not that they're bad people. It's not that they're hard to work with. It's just that they have their moment and then they don't. Yeah. It's... I mean, actors or products, you know, to some degree. Same as singers. Yeah. Was it luck?

5:44 Was it something you did differently than other actors that helped you... That you're still working and people still love you and stop you on the streets and all the rest of it. I mean... I'm not nostalgic. No. Not nostalgic. In fact, the thing that I love the most is when, like, a group of 14-year-olds come up.

6:04 Yeah. Because they've seen the outsiders and, like, or they've watched Parks and Rack. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever. Being relevant is... So was it something you did? Was it... You're just like thanking your lucky stars every day that it kind of worked out? It's like anything else. You put yourself in a position to get lucky, right?

6:20 So one of the things is that I've always been a risk-taker. And so if something's interesting to me, I'll do it. And so, for example, when I did the West Wing, that was at a time when if you had come from movies, and God forbid you'd been in movies, but maybe you were in a sort of mini-downturn, which I was, you definitely, if you did a TV series, you were admitting defeat.

6:53 Defeat. Right. And there were... I mean, I've talked to people... No, you could go from TV to movies, but you would never go to movies to TV to movies. Never. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember, you know, when after I did it, guys like William Peterson, a big movie crew to live in Dianne LA, he did CSI and Kiefer.

7:14 Feds, I saw you on West Wing, I was like, okay, maybe I'll do television, you did 24. So I'm not saying I blazed any trail, but when people see somebody do it, all of a sudden the stigma comes off of it, but I was able to do it because I just didn't care. And I was like, I've always had a healthy case of the fuckets, and that really helps.

7:36 And then the other thing is I'm naturally curious. So... You want to do different things? I want to do different things. I've never done TV kind of thing. Never done a podcast. Right. You know? Right, never. A book. You know, when I wrote my first book, people were like, well, you can't write a memoir, because that's another thing people do when it's over, or when they need money.

7:59 Right. And I was like, well, it's neither for me, and I don't care what people think, because I think I have something to say. And I'm on my third book. How did you develop the case of the fuckets? Where did it come from? Was it instilled in you and your parents, or did you survive the career near death experience and realize you survived, so you'll be okay kind of thing?

8:23 If you talk to my family, particularly my brothers, they say, they'll tell you I always had it. Yeah. And I think it's... Where are you in the pecking order? I'm the oldest. Okay. I mean, I think I've always had a lack of fear around, like sort of ambition, audaciousness, lack of fear, whatever flavor you want to describe.

8:48 It's that same ingredient I think I've kind of was born with. So give me an example of something that a risk you took and it didn't work out. And it was like, oh, well, give me one. Just give me one. I got a bad one. Agreeing to do a song and dance number to open the Academy Awards disaster. I wish you had talked to me before that.

9:10 I could have advised you against that. What would you have said other than it's a horrible idea? A horrible idea. Okay. So can you sing and dance? Let's start there. I can... I'm an actor who sings. Okay. So you're a double threat. I can sing as well as Russell Crowe. Let's put it that way. Mm-hmm. No disrespect to Russell Crowe at all.

9:33 But not... I mean, I think I... I mean, Keith or Sutherland tours a band. I think I could go up and do a duet with him. Okay. So you decide... I mean, no bacon brothers. So you decide to do a song and dance for the opening of the Oscars. Can't dance. Okay. Okay. I mean, I didn't get foot loose for a reason.

9:50 Right? And it doesn't go well, is what you're saying? It doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. There was an open letter to the Academy the next day, signed by like Paul Newman and Gregory Peck and like, this was in the front to our sensibility. How dare... I mean, I looked out in the audience and I saw...

10:14 It was the Nightberry Levinson, one 10 Academy Awards for Rain Man. Yeah. I really saw him. Malve. What the fuck? Didn't go well. Okay. So you come up stage. You're fully aware of what happened. Here's the other part. You got to have... There's a reason why a lot of actors are egomaniacs and self-centered narcissists.

10:40 But as you have to have a little bit of that to inoculate yourself to the indignities that happened daily in a career where you're marked to market every single day. Right. So that part of me was like, fuck Barry Levinson. What does he know? Do you know what I mean? And then see you go... You go backstage and then you sit there and...

11:06 You're in the green room. And there's Lucille Ball telling you that you're a wonderful dancer and singer. She's making fun of you. No, she loved it. Oh, really? So she legit... But she's also comedy genius. God damn it. I was thought she liked it. You've totally rewritten my own history of Simon. The history I tell myself is that Lucille Ball loved me.

11:32 Is that everybody hated it except Lucille Ball? Yeah. Now it's just everybody hated it, including Lucille Ball. No, she loved it. Because she's a comedy genius. God damn it. She legitimately loved it. Young man. So Lucille Ball loved it. And then you read the open letter that it's an affront to the Academy and all our sensibilities.

11:51 So is that a humbling or do you have a sense of humor about it? This is what I want to understand. Which is I want to understand if there are these peaks and valleys and you have a healthy narcissism or unhealthy, that... I think diagnosed is a benevolent narcissist. Is that a diagnosis? Well, that's what Rashida Jones says.

12:11 And I think she's actually a learned woman. Okay, so your benevolent narcissist. Which means that you can take these situations and do you actually... Does it hurt or is it funny? Both. Simultaneously? Yes. So is that the reason that you've been able to maintain a career for so long? Is because you have a...

12:32 As healthy as your ego is, you also get that it's a joke. It's a game. 100%. Like you're a caricature of yourself at times. That's why when... Like one of my favorite things that I've ever done was the Comedy Central roast of myself. Right. It's brutal. Why do people agree to that? Well, see, that's just the thing.

12:56 Like, why would you...? So I told Cheryl, I said they've come to me. You're right, Cheryl. They've come to me like four years in a row. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And then I remember Justin Bieber did it. And he is a huge star. I was like, you know what? If Justin Bieber can do it, I can do it.

13:13 And a competition. Right. And... Right. You're... I mean, public... Right. It's everything you've said about me. And Cheryl goes, you can't... I won't let you do it. You're going to... You're going to be humiliated and nationalized. That ship has sailed. That's what I said. I've never said to her. And she goes, well, are they at least going to pay you?

13:37 Yeah, they're going to pay me over a million dollars. She goes, oh, you're doing it. Everybody's got a price. Everyone has a price. What's the price of humiliation? Turns out it's about a million dollars for about five hours work. Yeah. I would put up with a lot for that. Yeah. I mean, who among us? So...

13:54 But that said... Yeah. I've never had more fun. Never. Never. It was so fun. And they eviscerated... They are good friend Maria Shriver, I invited. And she sat there and... You can watch it on Netflix to this day or wherever the hell it is. The look of horror on Maria Shriver's face... As I'm getting...

14:21 I'm so going to... Dissected. I wish I had watched this as prep. It's... So brutal. So where did you learn that? Did that come from being punched in the face a few times and learning... Was that natural? Or did you... What I'm getting at? What I'm getting at is, can the rest of us learn? You are... You are, you know, black belt, jujitsu, you know...

14:45 You're ability to weather the punches. And the question I'm asking... The reason I'm going down this path is, can the rest of us learn to withstand humiliation and... I don't want to say, you know... Failures, but sort of like... Failures. Humilations and failures. They wrote an open letter, Simon. They wrote an open letter.

15:04 Okay, so how did the rest of us learn to build a muscle of humiliation... To withstand humiliation and failure? Because ultimately it's good for growth, growth, mental health, and career longevity. So I want to know where it came from. I mean, I think it's competitiveness. Like, I'm down, but I'm not out.

15:26 Right, you see it with athletes all the time. Literally they're down by X amount of points or... But what's going through your head when you're down? Because the difference between a great athlete and just a very talented athlete is the mental game, not the physical game. Well, it's like somebody in shoot...

15:40 They say what makes great shooters is they forget the last bad shot. Yeah. So, I mean, they literally are impervious to the fact that they've gone over 18. Yeah. They get the ball. They're not going, oh, I... What if I go over 19? They're not. I mean, that's a real thing. I've been talking... I've been talking about this thing recently.

15:58 I've heard this guy talking about he wanted to understand what makes the best tennis players, the best tennis players. And what he discovered is the top five or always in the top five. And like the next 20, 25 or like circulating in the 20s. That's right. So what he's asking is like, what distinguishes the top five from everybody else?

16:13 It's not diet. It's not discipline. It's not training. All those things are equals. What he discovered was the top five tennis players love the game. They love the game. So when they have a great shot, like they'll win the point. And they'll say to themselves, I love this game. And if they miss the point, they go, missed it this time, but just you wait.

16:34 And what that does is it reduces stress and saves energy. And so individually, it doesn't do very much. But over the course of an entire game. What it does by the end, they have more energy. And they have lower stress. And so they can win at the end. Because they're just so much more relaxed and have much more physical energy than their opponent.

16:52 Who's stressed out and tense and all the rest of it. And tight. And so I'm wondering if it's something similar to that, which is when you get on your heels, when you win, you're like, I freaking love my life. I love my career. I love this crazy business. And when you get hit on your heels, you go like, oh, that sucked.

17:10 But I'm coming. Like is it the same? That's what I feel. You have the same joy. That's what it feels like. That's exactly what it feels. That's what goes through my mind. What you just described. So that to me is learnable, but that to me is also to see it done in a career that's not athletics. Because athletics, it's immediate point, point, point, point, point, game done.

17:29 Right? I find it more interesting in what you're doing because it's less immediate. And you have to actually, because those down periods can last weeks, months. Years. Years. Years. And to be able to maintain that attitude of I'm coming back and be able to look past the fact that it's been a year and you've been out of work.

17:48 There was a time in my career, right? Do you remember these things called magazines? Do you remember those? You know those were out? Yeah. So there was a time when I hadn't been on the cover of a magazine, which is, you know, as silly as it sounds, a great barometer of your cachet and your industry popularity.

18:05 Yeah. And I hadn't been on a magazine cover in ten years. Maybe. And I was like, I'm back. I'll be back. It was. And then there was another five or six year period, not. And then back again. And I was wanted to be on the cover of Vanity Fair, because that really meant something. That was when I came up, that was only the biggest stars.

18:30 Right. Got on the cover of Vanity Fair. And I never got it. Never, never, never, never got it. And not only did I not get that, I didn't get very many at all. And then I ended up getting the cover of Vanity Fair. And it wasn't for acting. It was from my writing. It was that they excerpted my first book.

18:48 And that, which I always took kind of talk about, you can have all your plans, but the universe has something else. Like, if you to told me, you're never going to get the cover of Vanity Fair as an actor, but you're going to get it as an author. I'd have been like, what? Yeah. But that's what happened.

19:02 So, but it was still the attitude of I'll be back. I'll be back. Yeah. But I am fascinated by this, this, because you come from an industry where the egos are fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. My point is, is you have, you, you could make a study. You're, you're one of the very few actors who's had a career across so many, so many decades that you, I'm very curious how the industry has changed.

19:28 Oh my god. When you were an a-lister with all the magazines and paparazzi falling you around then versus now. What, what has changed of the personalities? What does it take to stay in this business? What does it take to get into this business? Has anything changed? The people who made it then, could they make it now?

19:42 Oh my god. The people who made it now, could they have made it then? This is a, this is not, this is a five-hour podcast question. And I'm happy to go into it because it's fascinating about it. Okay. Well, for me, I'm a culture guy and I'm so curious how the culture has changed of show business. So in no particular order because I'm not sure of the things I'm going to talk about, which is more important.

20:04 Yeah. So I'm just going to start talking about it. Today, the audience is interested in you to the extent that they like you and are invested in who you are as a person. Behind off screen. As a person, as a brand is your thing. So compare that to when people loved Paul Newman or Marlon Brando or Lillian Guish.

20:41 They didn't know fuck all about any of those people. No parasocial relationships. Nothing. Right. By the way, if you wanted to see them outside of what you paid in a movie or a TV show, maybe, maybe you saw them at the Oscars or the Emmys. Today, they, if you're not, and really what it is, is it's, so audiences need, audiences need authenticity today.

21:10 Yeah. Authenticity above all else. All else. So before they were, they were actors. They had a job. Now you have, you have a brand you're managing. And that makes, that makes it sound. Is that right? Yeah, but it makes, yes, but that phrase theology through no fault of your own makes it sound more icky than it is.

21:29 Because when you, when you realize it, what is it? What's underneath it that is people in a world where literally you don't even know what the truth is anymore. If you get a whiff of authenticity, that is huge to people. Because you're the same on, on camera than your art camera. I mean, talking to you now, like you and I should have shoot in the shit before we turn the camera.

21:54 It's the same, it's the same cadence. It's the same personality. You don't turn it on for the cameras. I mean, this is what you see is what you get. Is that what you mean? 100%. And that has always been my, a little bit of my secret sauce. It hasn't always worked in my favor. I won't name names, but people can do the math.

22:09 I came up with a bunch of guys all about the same time, same looks, same level of talent. And one became a gigantic, gigantic, iconic movie star. But the way that that person did it is they were a different person and private than they were in public. And I've just, which works for a while, which I just can't, first of all, I don't want to live like that.

22:39 But like, I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it. Do you know what I mean? The reason I keep scraping this, why I'm fascinated by this, is less about Hollywood. But more that I see that Hollywood and sort of show business is an exaggeration for real life. Yes. Everything's exaggerated. Yes. And I think lots of people live lives where who they are publicly and who they are privately and who they are at work and who they are at home are, we're all slightly different, of course.

23:04 Yes. You have to be. But there are some who are very different. And I think the concept of authenticity is something that we want at work. We want from our friends. We want from our companies. And we're pushing it. And so I like looking at Hollywood for the lessons because everything is so exaggerated.

23:23 It makes the lessons easier to see. Yes. And you see somebody who's so diametrically different publicly than they are privately. Like, what happens here and how does it, why does it crash? And what kind of, what kind of skills does it take to live an authentic life? And so is it just flexing the muscle of learning to withstand humiliation?

23:42 Is it what we were saying before, which is love of life? Joy de vivre? Like, I love this. And don't worry, I'll be back tomorrow. Is it that kind of grit? Like, I'm trying to discern the lessons. It's all of that. And then the other part is owning your flaws. And being aware of what your blind spots are and realizing that those can also be your superpowers.

24:05 How do you define authenticity? When you say authentic, you say that the audience these days, the people are looking for an authentic personality. What does that even mean? The term is so overused. You know what it is? It's like, what's the classic thing is what is what is what is porn? How do you describe it?

24:20 You know what you know it when you see it? That's not enough. Or like, what is modern art? You know it when you see it. Yeah, but that is an answer people give because they are struggling to find the words to find it. If you can see something, you can define it. If we know what it is and we know what it isn't, then we should be able to...

24:38 Like, is the Sistine Chapel Modern Art clearly not? But what if it's a feeling? Because it's a feeling. It is a feel. It's a feel. But when you're with somebody... How do you know what dogs are dog? You know it when you see it? No. You're not getting a feeling off the dog. You're getting a feeling off the dog.

24:55 We're talking about as a feel. Okay. So what's the feeling? Like, how can we tell people be authentic if we can't tell them what to do? I can tell you Zaghi. Do not self-edit. Or just practical shit that I have had to learn. So what does self-editing mean? So if I have in it like in this conversation, if I have an instinct, something funny, I'm thinking it and saying it before I've even registered that it's going to happen.

25:24 As opposed to, I haven't even thought about it. It came from somewhere and I just blurted it out. I've lived parts of my life where in a talk show format, I wouldn't say anything until I had thought of it. How's that going to play? Is that off the topic we're on? Is it too mean? Is it make me... All of those things, I don't have any of them anymore.

25:47 When did that go away? When David Letterman fucked me. Yeah, when I did an appearance on David Letterman, and he fucked me. There's a thing called a pre-interview, right? You know what a pre-interview is? And I get it. Now being a podcast host, I don't have this because I invite really good people. I don't have a machine where I have to have fill time.

26:13 But if you do, you're going to run up against people who have nothing to say. Right. And so, as a protection mechanism, these talk shows have a pre-interview process. You get some accurately asked from a whole on the ground. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. They've got to promote a movie.

26:27 They're boring. They're funny if somebody writes for them. And now you've got to be out there. So they have a pre-interview where you kind of agree on what the stories are going to be. And if they say this, you're going to say that, and they do all the canned. Totally canned. Yeah, totally canned. And we can tell.

26:41 100%. Yeah, it's like comedians doing bits instead of answering questions. So we did it. And Letterman's producer was obsessed with a story that I told them that I knew was stupid. But they were like, say that story. Make sure you tell that story. Dave loves that story. I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm having this instinct.

27:05 This is not a good story. I don't even get it. The only reason I mentioned this story is because they put me through a two and a half hour pre-interview for an interview that might be three minutes long. And by the way, the message of that is you're boring. You have nothing to say. Keep talking. Eventually, we're going to get to a story that's worthy of the great David Letterman.

27:32 So I come out and I'm and they've got me. Do you remember the Warner Brothers cartoons when like bugs bunny would fuck porky pigs head up so much that he packed different suitcases on top of him and spin him around and then he'd walk right off of a out of a window of a hotel and followed to his death.

27:51 That was me. They're like, here, do this. Take that and remember this. If Dave says this, do you say that and remember the one story about that? And then I'm out there. I tell the story. It's a long story. And they're like, really tell the story. I tell the story. And by the way, the story was about going camping with my dad and we had to fly on a plane and of the bush plane and they let me fly it.

28:12 And I put us in a loop and that was it. There's no end. There's nothing. I finished the story. To crickets. Which I kind of knew were coming. Dead long dead air silence. And Letterman looks at me and goes, you know what? You seem like a good kid. After the show, you'll come up in my office and we're going to work on that story.

28:35 Fuck me. And so was it what I learned from that? Yeah. Is I'm going to trust my instincts. I'm going to say what I want when I want. Yeah. Because it couldn't have gone worse. Yeah. So even the boxes. Right. So even if you trust your instincts and it fails, you're still at ground zero. And it turns out, guess what?

29:03 I've got good instincts. Yeah. Because guess what? You can't be a good actor without good instincts. You can't. Can't. Cannot. It's what we work with. So you learn from the humiliation to say, you know what? I'm going to trust my instincts and tell my own stories. That's right. And so how do we teach someone to trust their gut without having to get to the point where they get?

29:29 So have you been able to teach your kids? Have you been able to teach your friends how to develop this muscle other than trust me? This is what happened to me. Don't make the same mistake. I mean, it's like, for example, if I were talking to a CEO of a company. Yeah. Like how can I be better talking at a retreat?

29:50 Or how can I be better in interviews, right? Which I would say highlight your fears, your flaws, what you, like the very thing that you don't want to talk about is the very thing that you need to talk about that makes you interesting and makes you relatable. And, you know, I think that, get off script.

30:21 Do something unexpected. Do something unexpected. By telling, first of all, it takes courage. A friend of mine, so the word vulnerability and being vulnerable is now overused. To the point where I'm not even trying to anybody knows what it means. And worse, to many people, the word vulnerable is equated with weakness.

30:47 That's right. My friend, I love this. She doesn't use the word vulnerable. She for all the reasons she hates the word. She uses the word available. Mmm. Which I've really taken to. Which is make yourself available, right? Like make yourself available. And show people that you're available to talk about your mistakes.

31:11 That you're available emotionally. That you're available, you know, to show your humility. And the courage it takes to be available to make yourself available. Because to be unavailable is nothing but walls and smoke screens. Okay, so let's talk about something that's adjacent to that. Like, people would say, the thing I like about Rob is he doesn't take himself seriously.

31:33 I hate that as much as I hate the vulnerable thing. Because I do take myself. If I'm not going to take myself seriously, who the fuck is gonna do that? You're not a character. No, but you know what I mean? But they use it all the time. But what they're saying. Yeah, yeah. I'm willing to discuss and not hide my flaws.

31:55 Yeah. I hate the phrase, he doesn't take himself seriously. Yeah. To the contrary, bro. I mean, I've worked on myself. I'm not running nilly, willy around the fucking world. But the notion of self being self deprecating. Let's talk about that, too. Because again, if you watch all of my heroes were going talk shows and be so funny about themselves.

32:20 Bert Reynolds. Yeah. Fucking Kennedy's press. You see John Kennedy's press conferences? Oh, they're amazing. They're like one man shows. He gets up there and he's making fun. He's taking the pit like the English would say, taking the piss out of himself. That to me is so much more attractive than someone is trying to show you how cool they are.

32:42 Yeah. All the time. Yeah. And I think it's relatable. I mean, because we're all bundled. It's much more relatable when people are self deprecating or at least willing to point out their flaws. Because we're all bundles of insecurity. We're all imperfect. And when somebody presents themselves as perfect, it actually makes them very difficult to relate to.

33:00 Yes. You know, where when somebody shows us... Well, because we also know... We also know it's not true. Going back to, yeah. So you know it's not authentic. Yeah. You immediately know they're not authentic. Okay. So going back to what it takes to be authentic. So being authentic means willing to make yourself available, willing to show who the real you is.

33:18 And that means talking about mistakes, fears, anxieties. I mean, you... And I think having a healthy sense of humor about oneself is a sign of great self-confidence, not the opposite. It's... We all went to school with the kid who could dish it out but couldn't take it. Yes. And I have great respect for the kids who can dish it out and who can take it.

33:38 Same. Right? And that's right. When you see... I'm just thinking of some like a paid manning. Yeah. Or you see these athletes, you see certain athletes who get into a broadcast booth. And they're just kind of... Because they're scared and they're trying to be perfect. They have an image to maintain and whatever.

33:55 And then you get a guy like paid manning. You just like... Making fun of his forehead. Making fun of himself. And like... As well, I wasn't exactly the most nimble guy in the pocket, but this guy over here... Like... That's... We love that. We love that kind of stuff. And I think that the great entertainers and the great public figures always knew that.

34:15 And my guess is that's something that everybody could learn from a little bit. Is there a line though? Because we live in a world where authenticity... And now I'm putting it in their quotes. Uh... Is performative. Right? Where there's some social media influencer or just somebody on social media... Oh yeah, the fake man of the people stuff.

34:36 The fake man of the people, but like... But just the... Just the like... How many takes do I take? Talking about how I'm struggling with my dot, dot, dot, you know? Yep. And it's... Like... Like where... By the way, if I were running straight inauthentic man of the people game on you... Yeah. Which is the thing.

34:57 I would have showed up not only without the makeup and hair people, but I would have showed up... Making sure you are very well aware that I'm such a dude. I'm just a regular guy, man. I'm a man of the people, too. I'm... I didn't... I'm not even sure I brushed my teeth today. I could have run that one on you.

35:17 Yeah. It's all... It's complete bullshit. Yeah. It's just a different type of bullshit. Yeah. Has social media kind of lost the plot? Has it just become our new entertainment? Is it just a new theater? Where it started off as people telling their real stories. And now it's people telling their real stories ish, but it's scripted, it's lit, it's angled, it's, you know...

35:37 I know where to put the... Is it like... Everybody like... Everybody knows what their angles are. Yes. Everybody knows to lift the camera a little high. Everybody knows to put the light behind the photographer. Like, everybody knows the basics. Some people know more than the basics. My favorite is watching people pose for selfies on the street.

35:53 Yeah. And like every single person now knows what only we used to know. Right. You know? Like the Olsen twins when they... You know, they did what they did famously. They created the prune. Do you not prune? Men don't have to do it. But what gals? If you get your picture taken and you see... People say say cheese.

36:12 I don't get that. Never mind. That isn't... But if you go prune, you see prune, you get... You get the prunes. The perfect... You get trop out and cheekbones. Prune. See, the fact that I know this... And I'm willing to share it openly. You're like the magician revealing the secrets. Well, I have... In yours, I've read carpet looks.

36:32 I've got man of the people. I've got blue steel. And I've got iconic. You... You have names for them. Yeah. Can you? Right now? Yeah, man of the people. Sure. Man of the people, please. Man of the people is when you see, like, Tom Cruise at the rope... At the line, like, reaching out to sign thousands of autographs.

36:54 That's... He's doing man of the people. Okay. Blue steel. And then... And then... Blue steel is... Like... It is red carpet. You've got your angles. You're doing your angles. Step and repeat. Yeah, you've got... Rob over here. Rob over here. I've got a bunch of... Right. That they've lent you. Yeah. And you need to show that, because otherwise you're not getting a watch line.

37:15 So the question is, how do you get your hand up here? So it has to be your caught mid... Mid move, like this. That's a good... That's... That's a conic. Yeah. Also looking up and off, as always. The presidential photographs are always... Hopefully looking off... To the horizon. But the horizon is not done here.

37:32 The horizon is up there. So you're looking up to the horizon. And, um... Yeah. Those are the three. The best is I... I told Chris Pratt that with mutual friends of Pratt. Early on when he was just becoming a movie, sorry. He literally called me. He tells me a roll-o. Roll-o. I'm in the car. I'm on the way to the red carpet.

37:51 What are the three? What are the three again? Many of the people? A conic? And... What's the other? I've got blues here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, thanks, Roll-o. But this is the point, which is you understand. It's an industry. It's a game. It's a game. It's a goof. There's a role to play. Yes. And if you play a role with a nudge and a wink.

38:11 This is the secret to longevity. Which is... You take it seriously. Really seriously. But not... But not too seriously. Well, you know, it's not self-important. It's not self-important. And the other thing is, like, I see... There's another... There's another thing that actors do where they go. They want you to think like...

38:27 You know, I didn't do up this tie because, you know, I'm... I'm above all this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's... The mirror that I've flown to France to do. Yeah. And this tux. Yeah. That I've either bought or rented or had fitted. Yeah. But I'm above all this. I'm kind of above it. Yeah. And you can tell, you know, why?

38:48 It's my ties lose. It's my ties lose. It's my ties lose. See? Just so you know. It's all bullshit. It's more bullshit than doing your fucking tie-up. You are going back to that tennis... Now everybody is out there googling. That tennis... I'm going to get a phone call from Joaquin Phoenix immediately.

39:07 That tennis analogy is... From here, bro. You know you're there. You know you're there. I know you're there. Everybody knows you're there. You don't mind pissing people off. You don't mind pissing people off. Or do they... Or do they just know that you're having fun? They have to... Listen, if somebody...

39:25 If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be like, I fucking love. Dude, I... If you're... I'm watching... Because we can't make fun of Lillian Gish. You're dead. You can't make fun of dead people. Okay, fine. That example. Okay, so I'm trying to... Okay, I don't got a service. So I'm watching family guy with my boys.

39:43 They're probably 10 and 11. Dad, you got to watch family guy. You got to watch family guy. The funny show ever. I watch. It's not the first episode I watch, but it's funny. It's a really funny show. And I'm watching it and then there's a... An episode where Stewie, the crazy little baby, goes to Hollywood.

39:59 And he's in a makeup chair. And this flamboyant man is doing his makeup. And the scene begins with Stewie going, Oh, please, just let me do one more. Can I do one more? And the makeup guy goes, Of course, you can do one more already. He goes, Rob Lou. And he goes, Straight. And she goes, No! I never would have known it to look at him.

40:27 And I thought it was the grade. It's amazing. And I called Seth McFarlane. Yeah. I go, do that. And we became friends. And I've done a bunch of family guys. And we've worked together a bunch. But he's gotten a lot of phone calls that were... How dare you? How dare you? But to be made fun of means you're...

40:44 You're relevant. You're in the zeitgeist. Because nobody makes fun of people. Unless they're... You're making fun of the hazbindness of them. You know? Yeah, I'm not taking a shot. Which is mean spirit. I can take a fake ass shot at Joaquin Phoenix, because he's one of my favorite actors. Right. It's one of my favorite actors.

40:59 It's one of the greatest actors we've ever had. Right. He'd still do this tie up, but he's a great actor. Yeah. If you weren't in show business, what would you be doing? I mean, not being in show business after this interview comes off. That's true. You didn't go to college. You do like... That could not be more clear.

41:14 He clearly did not go to college. No, no, you. Yeah, I didn't. Oh, yeah. But the... I don't mean it in a... In a mean way. No, I know. Like, you have been an actor your whole life. Like, what else could you do? Nothing. Like, if this doesn't work out... Oh, bro. I can't change a light bulb. If this doesn't work out...

41:35 Is it? For me. My dad used to say... When I was 12, he used to say tons of supportive shit like this. You either better grow up to be a movie star or a prince. And rural family wasn't available. I tried. Go on. It's a Stephanie. I dated her for like five years. About five months. What I felt like five years.

42:04 I tried. I was like... You tried, Prince. I tried it wasn't... I'm not cut out for it. What? I would have liked the diplomatic community. That would have been great. Like, to have the pouch that you can put shit in all over the world and park wherever you want. Or is it going to red light? Just get out.

42:20 Not built for it. What about a long late dinners with people that you don't want to be with? Yeah. And nobody works. But you have long late dinners with people that you don't want to be with. Is there anybody else I can trash in this podcast? I mean, this is like... This is the episode we can call it.

42:38 The one where Rob Lowe trashes. Everybody who ever... Yeah. Am I trashing? No, you're not. We're having fun. Okay. And we're doing authenticity. We're doing authenticity. We're pointing out the obvious. We're pointing out the things that everybody already knows. That's the thing. I think that's what authenticity is, right?

42:53 Yes. Which is why you're presenting to be perfect. We all know you're not. Yes. Because we're not. We all know that everybody else tied the tie for their tuxedo. We all know that you didn't. Either a stylist told you that would look cool. You decided it would look cool. Or it's an affectation. Or maybe it's really your personality and you don't want to be at the thing and you're begrudgingly there.

43:18 Which is a thing. Which is a thing. I get that. I get that. And all you want to be is an actor, but your contract says you've got to go. That's real. You've got to go to the press. I have respect and empathy for that. There's a lot of actions. I really want to be really guy. I have grudgingly going for a show.

43:33 I have total respect and empathy for people who are not. They're not marketers. And they're not comfortable in that lane. And I understand that. I really, really do. But I also understand it's a part of the job. So for me, it's way like meeting people on the street. I love people. I love meeting them.

43:54 I love talking to them. It's way easier for me to take a picture. To say hello. Then to say. I'm sorry. Don't take pictures. Yes. I've seen people do that to kids in wheelchair. Yeah. I've seen it with my eyes. And when I go. What's that about? They say. If I make an exception here. I have to make an exception for everybody.

44:16 And I've just made a rule. I am not taking pictures with people. I'll say hello to them. Yeah. Of a conversation with them. Yeah. And I get the end of the day. Take the fucking picture and move on. Do you want to hear the best story I heard? I just heard this last night. So Paul McCartney. Arguably one of the most famous people in the world.

44:33 Right? No one's Beatles proof. As he said. It's amazing. That's what he said. Yeah. No one's Beatles proof. And people come up to him. They muster up the courage to come out to him. And back in the day before there were cell phones. You know, can I take a picture with you? Can I take a picture of you?

44:49 And he would always say the same thing. I'm terribly sorry. I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to chat. But I don't take pictures of the take one. It'll be mad. It'll be a feeding friend. Yes. And totally understanding that. Right. And he just, as a rule, Paul McCartney doesn't take pictures. September 11th happens.

45:07 And he's down there. And there's some firemen. And he goes down to them and says thank you to them. And they say, can we have a picture? And he says, of course. Right. And there's a restaurant that wanted his picture. And he wouldn't take a picture. But he gave them the picture of him with the firemen.

45:23 Right. He's at the restaurant. And somebody comes over to him. The Tim says, Mr. McCartney. It's my wife's birthday. All she would love. She's a huge fan. Please can she have her picture with you? You know. He goes, I'm sorry. I don't take pictures. He goes, but your picture is a, that's with firemen.

45:42 I took that with firemen. But I'm sorry. I don't take pictures. I'm terribly sorry. I appreciate you asking. But I'm sorry. I don't take pictures. Paul McCartney gets up to walk out of the restaurant. Walks over the table and sings her happy birthday. Okay. That is better than a picture. That is a story.

46:00 That's amazing. There's something about a photo. It's irrefutable evidence. You can share with everybody of the mall. I get why people want photos. No, no. I have photos with people. Like, I don't get star struck with many people. But there are some that I really. I did one with Paul. The last time I saw Paul was at his, the last concert.

46:23 And he just showed up to the, yeah, I said, I said, please. And it's in my last book. It's a picture of me standing there. And he's got the look of like, get it over with. But I made it. But it's your picture. You know what? I do. Are these guys? Nothing is. But there's a level of celebrity that is. It's otherworldly of which he is one of that.

46:43 Yeah. The other one was Redford. I did it with. Yeah. Where I was like, I just, I don't give a shit. Where I'm taking selfies. But I think it's fun when celebrities are star struck by celebrities. Yes. It's like, we are the world. They're all like, what? Like, they're all looking around. My favorite documentary.

46:56 It's an amazing documentary. Why was Dan Accroyd there? That's what I say. I could have been there. I want to go. I'm sorry. It's 1985. Yeah. You were. Hello. I know. The fuck. It really made me request like really. And we know you can sing. And I. And we know I can fake sing. Yeah. And there's no bigger springs team.

47:17 I was in the cut. I was like, but then again, Madonna wasn't there either. Were you in. Were you at the Emmys? Because they. That was the American Music Awards. Oh, it was the American. Okay. So because they were all there because. Dan Accroyd wasn't the American Music Awards. Was he still don't know why he's supplying the drugs?

47:34 It never. They never touched upon it in the documentary. Why Dan Accroyd was there. No. Does Dan Accroyd know why Dan Accroyd? Maybe it's a blue. He does have blues brothers. That's a. That's a real thing. And he can sing. He's the blues brothers. Yeah. A real like soul out. Arena. That's true. Okay.

47:51 I'll give him that. Yeah. And it was up the time. I feel better about myself. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. That's right. You didn't have a blues brothers type film. And you weren't selling out arenas for your singing. You were doing a movie. Did you... Did you... Did you at least take some training and were to put your fingers Or were you literally just making up whatever like a little bit of both.

48:10 A little bit of both. I'm always fascinated at how much effort celebrities... Or actors not celebrities. Actors put in for a part. Like you have to learn the violin like... Yeah. And you can tell if they're getting... They're just making up. And now with AI you don't need to do any of that. It's true.

48:22 But... Now you didn't fighting scenes. Sure. Lots of them. Like a good... Yeah. How many skills do you have? I have. Oh do. you shoot a gun. My abilities are literally a mile wide and an inch deep like I've played so many doctors like if you were to God forbid have a medical emergency right now I could I'm almost certain I could almost save your life. Well I mean just before we turned on the cameras there was some smoke across the street and you literally said I've played a fireman don't worry it's okay it's white smoke yeah I mean you literally you literally did the I played a doctor on TV and that's the beauty of what I get to do is I learned so much I have I have a lot of knowledge no actually I legit want to know I want to know the skills you have you we know you can act we know

49:16 you can we know you can we know you can play it and shoot guns right horses um you know I could I could put the for the fucking I was watching mission impossible like oh they go put the pen in his long to let the air in they did it I'm like I've done like rescue people what skills do you have that are applicable in the outside world that you learn because of a film or a TV show so riding a horse got it you could ride a horse not on screen shooting a gun great you could shoot you could could you pick up a gun assemble it and shoot it yes blindfolded okay that's a skill I could if you were to tie me up I don't say no later we'll talk later if you're if you're it if you're to tie my hands behind my back and tie my feet and throw me into the deep end of your pool I could

50:02 survive that's like a navy seal I played a funny baloney navy seal yeah and so they so you went through the training for a few months yeah you did exactly a little bit of buds yeah totally so I can do I can do I can do ring pickups I can do a lot of what's a ring pickup ring they don't do many more they're too violent even for the navy seals but they you you would surface in the middle of nowhere and you would tread water and put your arm in a in like a sea thing and then they as zodiac will ripping down and would catch you and just let you up into the that sounds awful is or the navy sees only do it once what you do in the movie you're doing it 14 times what movie was this that you played an ABC terrible movie called the finest hour before Chris Pratt cornered

50:45 the market on right on entertain military entertainment um I I there were only very few navy seal movies and and like I would go to buds and they're like I love your movie I'm like it's the only it's really there's only been two navy seal movies it was bad called the finest hour bad but I but again the gift of that movie was that I got to learn a lot about that world and make a lot of friends in that world and have a little footprint in that world yeah yeah yeah that's really one of the best things about the crazy life which is you get to meet some amazing amazing people yes yeah for sure yeah who's who so pulma cartney is one of the highlights of your career meeting pulma cartney carry carry grant um you know all those mick I mean it's you get to meet your heroes

51:29 are there very few people that I haven't had they always say don't meet your heroes though I would say don't get to know your heroes okay meeting is one thing okay like I like I'm friendly ish with Bruce spring seeing my favorite he's my guy right and it's gotten like I know him enough now like like I don't like it's like you just it's you know what I'm saying it's like I it's hard it's hard to like cry when he's singing the river when you're gonna go pizza with him later you know what I'm saying it's like it's hard I did I knew everybody knew everybody needs to be a fan of somebody it's like I remember the first time there was this magic trick that I loved super simple card trick that a friend of mine used to do and I begged him to I begged him to teach me

52:11 so I could do it for other people he's he and he's tet he quiz me why do you want to learn it I said I want to learn it because I want to give other people to the feeling that you gave me he's like that's a good reason I'll teach it to you and he taught me the trick and it completely ruined it because it's not magic it's just a trick and now that I knew the trick it I've lost I lost the magic don't lose the magic and don't lose the magic right and I think it's the magic and I think this is and I think this is to your point which is you can meet your hero just don't get to know your heroes because it turns out they're people and and it you said the song loses its magic because you know the person yeah some people can transcend it because all all of something or someone is a

52:51 magical thing yes and the best and you never want to lose all because that that's jaded yes yes I'm definitely not jaded I mean it's weird I'm cynical but I'm not jaded yeah is that is that even possible no I think so I think and it goes right back to where we started which is you have joy you have unbridled joy for life you have unbridled joy for your career for your for your craft you you you have fun and you take it seriously but and think what you teach us and this is what I'm getting from you and what I'm learning from you just can be very serious about something and have a lot of fun with something simultaneously yes you can take life very seriously because life is serious and you can have a lot of fun with it and you can have the struggles and you can talk

53:33 about your fuck ups and you can talk about your own demons and you can have fun in all of that as well there's absurdity in all the struggle and there's realness in all of the in all of fun like when I when I talk about drugs and alcohol there's nothing more serious than that there's nothing more serious than if you know someone who's suffering really suffering with drugs and alcohol it's as serious as anything out there right and when I talk share speaker on the country which I do a lot there are big-time laughs big-time in that because if you can find humor in that you can find humor in anything yeah and and and there are plenty of people who can talk very movingly and and you get a lot from it and you're trying the whole time that's not why I got put here

54:30 I got put here for to inject a different thing into the conversation and and I it's taking me a lot of years to to learn it and to learn that like to the extent that anybody has a secret sauce I think maybe that's that's mine it's Stephen Colbert says you know you can't you can't be angry or sad when you're laughing hmm hmm I mean literally you know the most difficult times where we're struggling or in sad when if somebody can make a joke like humor matters it's a salve you know it's yeah it's a balm you know like and you can't be angry and you can't be sad when you're laughing I remember we talked it's so weird that my grandmother keeps coming up in our talks but when you were on my podcast we talked about my grandmother and I'm just remembering

55:22 when she passed away I was blessed to be at her bedside and she when she finally passed away there's that mom we're like oh now what happens and a new nurse came in and looked at me and literally over my grandmother's not even still warm body produced a pen and paper as I could I get your autograph she's handing it over my dead grandmother's body and I remember going yeah I don't I don't sign in pen what do you know what do you do right you can get angry but right you have to see the but this is the point this is one of the things that I really I really appreciate about you which is you you see the absurdity of life and the joy of life woven in it's part of it right like like it's all woven it's it's a tapestry and and it's all for fun and I think this is what authenticity is

56:21 and I think the reason you don't get in trouble when you say some of the things you do is because people know it's it's just it's life and you're just pointing at it I'm never singing anything isn't I mean I'm like anybody I'm capable of saying things that aren't true I'm capable of lying all the things that human beings do because we're flawed but when I'm doing that thing it's I'm they everybody knows that you just have fun that the one they know that I'm right but the other the other thing that about longevity and like you know I did television when movie people didn't do television like I host a game show that would be career death like and and I'm sure there are probably some actors I don't think Daniel De Lewis is looking to do a game show but

57:12 what I when they came to me with it the reason I did it was I just come off of doing a one man show being in front of a live audience with stakes like actual it's live to tape there's no second tape there's a hundred regular folks that you have to interact you don't know what they're going to say you know it's a free shot on goal all the time there's money at stake that changes people's lives and you're the quarterback going do we need to be funny now do we need to be to embrace the drama oh do I do have to reset how much money we played and it's all happening all at once live and this enormous set and it is so exciting it's so exciting and it's not at all what I thought it would be and yet it's more than I thought it would be and it's it's an error it's a part of

58:05 entertainment that I'd never been in but this is this is I so we talked about this so you are a movie actor where it was career death to do TV you did TV your movie and TV actor where it's considered sort of career death to now do a game show what is the reason you take these pretty extreme pivots where the common sense of the industry is you probably shouldn't try that like what is the appeal of doing something so out of you know sort of off the the game plan of the career well or maybe it is the career I like to think that that I because I can smell bullshit a mile away I can and I hate artifice and pretension so if you take those things out then all of a sudden you're not judging a game show negatively and I know what it means to people like like

59:06 people watch the floor in a way that they don't watch anything else I've ever done I have eight year olds watching with their parents that does not happen they're not all getting together to watch you for you right right they're not and and the parents aren't there watching the summer I got prettier yeah it's we live in a world in which everybody goes to their separate room to watch their TV shows that's and rare are the shows that a family comes together and sits on a couch and watches together and and when I get that and I get it all the time yeah that means a lot to me Roblo you are uniting families I'm I'm bringing I'm you're bringing back the family bring back one quiz show at a time one quiz show at a time doing the Lord's work that's right of all the characters

59:48 you've played who's your dream intern who's your CEO and who's getting fired oh wow dream intern um Chris Tragger Parkson Recreation who's your CEO I'm going with Sam Seaborn he was running the White House effectively who's getting fired oh one one hundred percent my character I played in California Cation Eddie Niro one honey he's getting fired he's going to HR immediately you've worked with your son what's one piece of advice you'd give someone about working with family do it whenever you can it's the greatest gift um the the shorthand the pride uh is it strange playing a character with your son playing a character yes who's I mean yes very much show and then and then you can't help yourself and and also it just accept the fact that you

1:00:47 lean into the fact that you're still dead like his thing is he calls he we'd never call me dad on the set it was always Rob Rob Rob Rob Rob as if I was as if everybody didn't know I want to go hey they know right um but we would be in a scene and I would just be thinking I don't like his hair like that he needs a haircut do you mean like I can help yourself yeah I can't help myself or like I'd be like I think he needs to engage his core the way he's standing here so and then we ended up writing that into the show unstable still streaming on on Netflix two seasons available anything that you've learned the career or personal that just help you get through the day make life a little easier hmm hmm um live a gratitude um manage expectations

1:01:38 yours or other people mine Rob such a joy so fun you're so fun thanks for coming on I appreciate it that was great thank you a bit of optimism is brought to you by the optimism company and is lovingly produced by our team Lindsey Garbenius and Devon Johnson if I was able to give you any kind of insight or some inspiration or made you smile please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more and if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work or want to advance a dream maybe I can help simply go to Simonsonic.com until then take care of yourself take care of each other