Q&A: Age of the Earth, the Trinity, and Denominations

From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina, you're listening to the Bible Answer Man broadcast with Hank Hanegraaff. We're on the air because life and truth matter. The mission of the Christian Research Institute is to equip believers to always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you, to give the reason for the hope that you have with gentleness and respect. For more information, resources, or to donate to CRI.org, call 888-7000-CRI or go online to equip.org. The following program was pre-recorded. And now, here's Bible Answer Man host, Hank Hanegraaff.

Thank you very much, Randy. Let's go right to the phone lines. First up is Rob, listening in Vancouver, Washington.

Hi, Rob. Good afternoon, Hank. Pleasure to speak with you again, sir.

Likewise.

I'll try to make this really brief. Thanks to the ministry of CRIF, my wife and I have been able to witness some Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses now for about 20 years, and we praise God for your ministry regularly. So I thank you for that. But the Mormons now have my house marked, and the last time a couple of Mormon missionaries came to my door, something popped into my head that they had never considered, and I wanted to get your comment on this, and they also threw something else at me that I'd never heard before. But the first one was, you know, as you know very well, they are trying very hard to paint themselves as a Christian church these days, and I put to them, well, I give them about seven or eight different core fundamental tenets, creeds,

of the foundational historic Christian gospel, the vicarious atonement, the bodily resurrection, the virgin birth, all of these kinds of things. And sure enough, they went right in line and said, oh yes, we believe in that. Of course, we know they pour different meanings into those words, but fine. I made them stick to it. And I said, well now, wait a minute. When Joseph Smith claimed he had his revelation from God out in the woods in upstate New York in 1820, what did God tell him? He said, well, as soon as I addressed the person who did this book to me in the light, I asked them which of the sects was right, so I'd know which one I should join. And he said he was told by God I should join none of them, for they were

all wrong, that all their creeds were an abomination, and that all their professors were corrupt. Well, now, wait a minute. You're saying that God told him that all their creeds were an abomination. Well, all those creeds I just named after you... our fundamental foundational historic Christian creeds that have been around for, what, 1,500, almost 2,000 years. You're basically doing the very thing that Joseph Smith told you in the sight of God was an abomination. Something isn't right.

I wonder if this angle had ever been pursued.

Well, I think it's a great angle to pursue, because it's absolutely right. Smith had been chosen to restore, not to reform, but to restore a church that had allegedly disappeared from the face of the earth. And of course the doctrines that evolved from the vision, compromise, confuse, and contradict the nature of God, the authority of scripture, and the way of salvation. And I think this is one of the reasons we have to continue being vigilant in demonstrating that what Mormonism is communicating with respect to the nature of God, who Jesus Christ is, and the way of salvation does not correspond to reality. And further, we need to make clear that the Book of Mormon that came out of the vision, at least the alleged vision

that Joseph Smith had, is not the most correct of any book on earth. The Bible is. They think that the Bible is riddled with error. In truth, the Bible is the infallible repository of redemptive revelation, and This is the ultimate question. What is your authority? And does your authority correspond to reality? In other words, if it were true that the Bible communicated that Hittites were a people group, and we discovered that they were not a people group, that would undermine the credibility of the Bible. But that is precisely what has happened with the Book of Mormon.

We know with certainty that the Jaredites, the Nephites, and the Lamanites, the civilization that supposedly is found in the Book of Mormon in Mesoamerica after the Jaredites 2,200 years before Christ and the Nephites and the Lamanites 600 years before Christ migrated to Mesoamerica, we now know that they are fictitious. We know that the people, places, and particulars in the Book of Mormon... don't correspond to reality. And therefore the Book of Mormon is not a reliable source.

The very reason that we put together Memorable Keys to the Mormon Mirage, the flip chart, it is vetted information. It's reliable information and it is forged in such a way that in the process of going through it you can understand essential Christian doctrine and I commend you for the way in which you made those doctrines the issue in your discussion. I want to go back to the phone lines, talk to Don next. He's listening in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Don.

Hi, Hank.

Hey, thanks very much for taking my call, first of all. I really enjoy your show.

Thank you.

My question is, I'm a youth pastor here in this area, and I attend a local Bible college here, and I've always been a young earth creationist. And one of the doctors that had came in and spoke last night he was talking about the age of the universe. I've actually heard this on your show a few times as well, that the age of the universe is actually probably more millions, billions of years possibly than a young Earth creation stand.

And I'm trying to reconcile that with Genesis and how that all fits together.

Can you help me out with that?

Well, I don't think Genesis gives us an answer to the age question. In other words, if I look at Genesis, I don't find a chronology of creation. I do find a hierarchy of creation. Now that is not to say that Genesis is not a historical narrative. It is, but it is also a historical narrative that is beautifully forged so that we can remember God's creative prowess with each day of the week. Not only so, but we can remember the complete outline of what is being communicated by Moses in the book of Genesis with your ten fingers.

So it is laid out as a mnemonic device as well But I don't think that you can come up with a chronology from the book of Genesis. I think that if you want to know how old the universe is, you need to pay particular attention to the book of nature. Maybe it's a young earth after all. But I think you have to look carefully at what the universe itself tells us about its age. And remember, God's qualities are seen in what he has made. So we are without excuse.

For example, if you look at star life, I think that's a persuasive argument for the consideration of billions rather than thousands of years. I mean, star life is dependent on star mass. A star like the sun has enough fuel to burn for at least 9 billion years. Conversely, the fuel of a star half the size of the sun may last as long as 20 billion years. That's kind of counterintuitive, but it actually is how it works.

The universe is presumed to be at least as old as the oldest stars within it. And while biological history may be a matter of inference, astronomical history is a function of observation, which is to say that you can see star formation in various stages of life. You can see a star that's being birthed. You can see a star in midlife. You can see a white dwarf star or a star that's burned out. It's nuclear energy. And therefore, I think that you can come up logically with how long that star that is now a white dwarf star has been around before it came to its present state.

I think those kinds of indicators are important for us to look at. And I think that's reasonable in that God has placed us in a privileged planet. We're in a flattened spiral galaxy, and we are placed in that galaxy in such a way that we can observe things about the universe around us. And therefore, if I were to tell you on this show today that I believe in geocentrism based on the Bible, you would look at me and say, that's ridiculous. First of all, there's no indication in the Bible that the Earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it. Secondly, everything we see in the book of nature says that heliocentrism should hold sway as a paradigm that makes the most sense in an age of scientific enlightenment. Now, why again?

Not because the Bible deals with it, although there were misinterpretations of the Bible that gave us the impression the Bible teaches geocentrism, but that was reading something into a text the text wasn't designed to tell us. So I think that's a misreading of the Bible, and if we were to hold to it today, it would also be a misreading of science. And I don't think we're permitted to commit either scriptural heresy or scientific heresy.

I see, okay. And actually, the professor last night did mention some of the Bible verses that was taken out of context and sort of alluded to as a geocentric universe. Just off the top of your head, can you give me a few of those?

Yeah, I mean, it's the idea that the Earth is fixed in its place. that oftentimes is used as a pretext for geocentrism, even in today's age of scientific enlightenment. But look, this is not just something that young Earth creationists do. This is something that progressive creationists do as well. Hugh Ross, for example, looks at Job chapter 9 and says, right there, you have an example of Big Bang cosmology. Now, I may not disagree with him on Big Bang cosmology, but I absolutely disagree that Job 9 says anything about Big Bang cosmology. I think that is reading something into the text the text isn't designed to say. If you read, he alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of of the sea and say, well, there you

have it, Big Bang cosmology, I would say you probably don't know how to read the Bible for all it's worth. Conversely, if you look at the verses that precede it, he shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. We don't suppose that the earth is perched up on pillars. This is, again, a very, very poor way of reading the Bible. We'll be right back with more answers to your questions. Please don't touch that dial.

To find out more about the materials mentioned on the show, call a CRI resource consultant toll-free at 888-7000-CRI. That's 888-7000-CRI. Our website is also an excellent reference destination to help you. Just go to equip.org and find articles by Hank, books, CDs, and DVDs, Again, that's equip.org. Or write CRI PO Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, ZIP 28271. The Bible Answer Man will continue in just a moment.

Hank Hanegraaff has dedicated his life to defending truth because truth matters. However, his life and ministry were radically transformed by another three-word phrase, Life Matters More. Truth matters because Christianity is rooted in history and evidence. Life matters more because it is the experience of union with God. The goal of Christian life is union with God. All attempts to understand Christianity from a solely rational perspective put us in danger of devolving into a transactional rather than transformational relationship with God. Truth Matters, Life Matters More will equip you to move beyond intellectually knowing about God to experientially knowing Him in Christ. To receive your copy of Truth Matters,

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Anyone who's been paying attention knows there's a war going on, not just on traditional morality, civility, and decency, but even more fundamentally on historic notions of truth. And the enemy isn't just the onslaught of fake news facilitated by a post-truth culture and turbocharged by growing legions of ideological spin doctors. No, the real enemies of truth range from post-modernist convictions that there is no objective truth to militant scientism that claims that only science can determine truth and religion is little more than primitive superstitions. But CRI support team members are not waving a white flag of surrender. They're holding the fort by undergirding every one of Christian Research Institute's mind-shaping

and life-changing outreaches 24-7. To learn how you can make a difference and enjoy all the benefits of support team membership, simply visit equip.org. Now back to the Bible Answer Man with Hank Hanegraaff. To find out more about the materials mentioned on the show, call a CRI resource consultant toll-free at 888-7000-CRI. Our website is also an excellent reference destination to help you. Just go to equip.org and find articles by Hank, books, CDs, and DVDs, and all the latest news on your faith in our world. Again, that's equip.org.

And now, once again, here is Hank Hanegraaff.

Thank you very much, Randy. And let's go right back to our phone callers. Next up is Gabe listening in Mississippi.

Hi, Gabe.

Hi.

Thank you for the program. My question has to do with Zechariah chapter 3, where Joshua, the high priest, is in dirty clothes. And I was wondering, is that a representation of what Jesus took on upon himself.

On the cross, our sins?

Well, I think it's all symbolic in some sense of what is going to happen, because if you look at the end of Zechariah chapter 3, you have Joshua who is actually using language, which is symbolic language, language of that which is to come. I'm going to bring my servant, the branch, the stone I have set in front of Joshua.

seven eyes on a stone, and I will engrave an inscription on that stone, and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day. So I think you certainly have what's going on in Joshua as something pointing ultimately to Jesus, because what's going on in Zechariah is an injunctive that has to take place. There has to be a rebuilt temple. And unfortunately, you have to have Zechariah reminding the post-exilic Jews of the importance of their relationship to Yahweh and then exhorting them to finish building that temple because the temple is pointing forward to Jesus Christ, as does Jerusalem. But again, once Jesus comes, the temple and Jerusalem lose their significance in that there are types and shadows pointing forward to to Jesus, the

antitype who fulfills all the types and shadows. So there's historical significance in the temple and Jerusalem, but ultimately that is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. That's why we know of a certainty that there's no need for another temple, because the ultimate temple has come, and we are living stones in the temple of God, because Jesus is the head, we are his body, the church. So the answer to the question is yes. unequivocally, it does point forward to Jesus Christ. Let's go back to the phone lines. Let's talk to Jim in Nashville, Illinois. Hi, Jim.

Hi, Hank.

Thanks for taking my call. I do appreciate it. Here's my question I wrestle with sometimes, and I always have problems with it. I've heard you and I've heard other ministers and so on talk about Jesus Christ being God. But I also read there's instances that Jesus clearly distinguishes himself differently from God. As an example, he'll say, You know, when he was asked about the second coming, he makes the comment, no one knows but the Father. He makes clear, distinguished differences between himself and God, and that's why I have trouble understanding. You know, there are three different entities, three different personalities. That's why I'm thinking, you know, can you explain that.

A little bit? Yeah, and you're making a good point, but here's how you have to understand this. Jesus Christ in the Incarnation is one person with two natures, 100% human and 100% divine. So in the Incarnation, when Jesus Christ comes in flesh, incarnate, in the Incarnation, Jesus Christ does not divest himself from of a single attribute of deity, he takes on the limitations of humanity without divesting himself of divinity. So there are times when Jesus Christ speaks from the perspective of his human nature. And when he does, he is making clear that humans don't know, only God knows, but again speaking from the perspective of his humanity. Jesus voluntarily veiled the prerogatives of divinity. Further, when we talk

about the nature of God, we're not talking about three gods. We're talking about one God, one essence. But we are talking about centers of consciousness within the Godhead, or identity formed and completed on the basis of relationships within the Godhead. Therefore, we can say, Jesus prays to the Father Or we can say, the Father sends the Son. These are subject-object distinctions that we're making. So that's why I oftentimes say when we talk about the Trinity, we're talking about one what and three who's. We're talking about one what in the sense of the nature of God, three who's in terms of distinguishing between centers of consciousness within the Godhead. Understood.

Makes sense. Okay, well, listen, thanks very much. Enjoy the program.

Hey, thank you so much. Appreciate your call. Back to the phone lines. We'll talk to Joel, listening on Ohio. Hi, Joel.

Hi, Hank.

Thanks for taking my call.

My pleasure.

I was just wondering if you could explain to me the benefits of having as many denominations as we have and maybe the negative aspects of that.

Well, I think what you have with denominations is an underscoring of the differences that Christians have with respect to primarily secondary issues, matters of eschatology or ecclesiology and the like. So I think it's really important that we point to the church universal, that there are people from every tongue and nation that ultimately are united around core essential doctrines.

And that's where we stand shoulder to shoulder as Christians. On the secondary issues, there's division. We debate those issues vigorously. We ultimately don't have to divide over them.

Okay, thank you very much for the help.

I appreciate it.

You got it. Again, we need many people to stand with this ministry prayerfully and financially. We're not going to pull any punches because if we did, there'd be no reason for us to be. So again, if you love this ministry and love the Ring of Truth, stand with us as a partner in the ministry. It would make a huge difference as we continue to equip people so that they're always ready to give an answer, a reason for the hope that lies within them with gentleness and with respect. Let's go back to the phone lines. Talk to Lance. He's listening on Shawnee, Kansas.

Hi, Lance.

Hey, how's it going, Hank?

I'm doing good. How are you?

I'm doing fantastic, and I appreciate you taking my call today. I love listening to your program. I got a question on Exodus 3.18. It says in there that God told Moses to go tell the Pharaoh to let his people travel a three-day journey to Jerusalem. out into the wilderness to worship him. Why would God have Moses lie when that's a big principle of his of not to do?

Well, first of all, this may sound like a matter of semantics. There's a difference between lying and not telling the truth. And certainly in situations, the greater good principle mandates that we do not tell the truth. Under certain circumstances, not telling the truth is not only morally permissible, but morally mandated. So the Bible never condones lying for the sake of lying, but it does condone lying in order to preserve a higher moral imperative. To put it in really concrete terms, so you can really grasp the principle, remember Rahab. She purposed to deceive... in order to preserve the lives of two Jewish spies, which was the higher moral law. And you can think about this as a Christian father or a Christian brother. Today, you would not

hesitate to lie in this sense in order to protect your wife or your daughters or your sister from the imminent threat of rape or murder. So again, there's a difference between lying and not telling the truth. In the case of a lie, there's an unjustified discrepancy between what you believe and what you say. And in that sense, lying is always wrong. But not telling the truth in order to preserve a higher moral law may well be the right thing to do and thus is not actually lying or is not actually a lie. And that principle applies to Exodus chapter 3 here in the verse that you're talking about, I think verse 18.

Yeah, okay. It just really struck me odd that, you know, God would want to do that. It's the only place I've ever seen in the Bible that he has told someone basically to lie. So that's the only reason why I had that question.

Well, in just war theory, too, you know, we do it all the time, right? The enemy does not deserve the truth. Hitler didn't deserve the truth. and therefore we would purpose to deceive Hitler so that when we invaded on the beaches of Normandy, we would be going stealthily under the cover of night as opposed to blowing the trumpets and saying, here's what we're going to do, and here's exactly when we're going to do it.

Yeah, definitely. I understand that.

Okay.

Well, I definitely appreciate your time. I love all the insights you give me. I listen to your program every.

Day, so.

I appreciate your time, Nick.

Thank you, Lance. I appreciate your kind comments as well. So many people listening into the Bible Instrument broadcast will hear these kind comments saying this ministry is so necessary and so impactful and making such a difference. And yet, truthfully, we depend on you to continue on with the ministry that we have. We need your help. If you could stand with us prayerfully and financially, we can continue touching lives for time and for eternity. If you don't, we can't.

It's as simple as that. And So we ask you to give prayerfully, not giving to get. We don't want to manipulate you in any sense, simply because you believe the truth matters. You want to be part of a team making a difference in the lives of real people for time and for eternity. Thanks again for tuning in.

We'll see you next time with more of the Bible Answer Man broadcast.

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Q&A: Age of the Earth, the Trinity, and Denominations

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