Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? with Matthew Flannagan, and Q&A

Welcome to the Bible Answer Man broadcast with your host, Hank Hanegraaff. The Bible Answer Man is the radio ministry of the Christian Research Institute designed to equip believers to defend their faith and become true disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ because life and truth matter. Our phone number is 888-7000-CRI. You can find us on the internet at equip.org.

The following program was pre-recorded. And now to begin today's broadcast, here's Hank Hanegraaff.

We'll be going to our questions in just a little bit, but I want to spend just a few moments talking to a very important author of an article within the Christian Research Journal titled, Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? Dr. Matthew Flanagan. And the reason I've asked Dr. Matthew Flanagan to join me on the broadcast today is this is a canard that is brought up over and over again.

If God instructs his people to commit genocide, then God cannot be worthy of worship. Either that or the Bible is not the infallible repository of redemptive revelation. And yet, this is precisely what we read in the Bible. In the cities of these people, the people that your Lord has given you to take their land as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. You shall utterly destroy them as the Lord your God has commanded you.

So not only is Joshua instructed to kill all the Canaanites, but the instruction comes directly from God. And if that's true, why in the world could we as Christians hold that the Bible is something sacred, that we ought to obey the rules of the Bible? Because the God of the Bible obviously doesn't seem worthy of worship. Well, Dr. Matthew Flanagan joins me. It's good to have you on the broadcast.

It's great to be here, Hank. Thank you.

This is a canard that comes up over and over again, that the God of Abram, Isaac, and Jacob is a God who instructs his people to commit genocide, and your response in the article is that we need to know the difference between reading the Bible literally and literarily.

Yeah, correct.

I mean, at least as we use the words in modern English, we kind of have the idea, if I said to you, you know, it's raining cats and dogs outside, if I were to interpret that literally, I would mean that there were cats and dogs falling from the sky and hitting the ground. Now, obviously, that would be a silly way of interpreting that phrase. We understand that in English, we have idioms, we have figures of speech, we have metaphors, we also have contexts where we speak loosely, we have contexts where we exaggerate or use hyperbole. So, for example, I might say, someone, oh, I might say to my kids, look, I've told you a thousand times, clean the lounge up. No, I haven't actually told them a thousand times. I mean,

I've told them a lot. So in context, literature and language can take on different sort of meanings or nuances depending on the context and where you're uttering that language. And so the point with the Bible is we shouldn't approach it assuming that every single phrase in it is meant to be taken literally in the way I just elaborated it. You have to say, okay, what kind of literature is this what is the author of this text doing with that language in this context? And we don't in normal communication do that. We don't in normal communication assume that everything somebody says to us is 100% literal.

I mean, I just gave some examples before. You know, we don't do that when we read a text. We don't normally assume that there's absolutely everything in here is 100% precisely literal. There's no loose language. There's no exaggeration. There's no hyperbole. There's no figures of speech. In fact, people who write that way are dead boring. So the point is that the Bible is a piece of literature, and you have to read what a passage says and what it's articulating and what have you in that kind of context in which it comes and understand that it's a piece of literature, and you have to take into account the kind of context and the type of literature you're dealing with and deal with it that way.

So genre is very important, but you're also pointing out in your piece in the Christian Research Journal that some of these things ought to be obvious. I mean, a lot of people call in and they say, well, how am I supposed to know what to take literally and what not to take literally? But you're saying, particularly with this issue of genocide of nations, you're saying the contrast between utter destruction and leaving ample survivors is fairly obvious.

So the context itself lets you know that there is hyperbole at work here.

Right, yeah. I mean, probably the best place to look at this is in the book of Joshua. One of the problems is when we read the book of Joshua today, as a series of verses broken up by chapters. But, of course, the original book wasn't written that way. And, of course, it also comes as part of what theologians call the canon. It comes as part of a series of books which spell out Israel's history right from the exodus up to the exile and restoration. So it's a segment.

It's one book and a segment of other books, and in itself is a whole book. Now, if you read right through that book, even a surface reading, but it's just a careful reading, You'll note that in the first few chapters, chapter 6 to 11, it emphasizes repeatedly various places which Joshua went in, and it says, he put to death all the inhabitants of the sword. He slew every single one of them. He left no survivors. He conquered the whole land, you know, as God had commanded him.

You know, it says God, and this little language, and it repeats over and over again. There were none left to breathe. All of them were killed, and so on and so on. And then a chapter later, and then it says he did this. He conquered the entire land, and he gave the land to the Israelites. And then the rest of the book spells out Joshua giving the land to those people. And he starts off by saying, there's still plenty of land to conquer. And he gives it to this tribe, and that tribe finds that their land is full of Canaanites, and they struggle to drive it out. And this tribe here finds that the area they've been given is full of Canaanites, and they struggle to drive it out. And this is then the constant

repetition of the second half of the book. And then when you get into Judges, which is in the first chapter, you see the same thing again. The land is full of Canaanites, and they're trying to drive them out, and they can't. So if you were just to look at the central themes, you find the central themes of the book, the first half and the second half, if you take them both literally, simply don't compete with one another. By the time you get to chapter 11, if you've read that literally, Joshua's conquered the entire land and there's nobody left.

And then he gives that land to the Israelites. But then the second half says that land that he's given to the Israelites is full of people. But even if you read the battles carefully themselves, the battle of Ai is a good example. The battle of Ai... talks about how every single man from Bethel and Ai were sent in pursuit when Joshua claimed his retreat. And then it says that Joshua turned around and they got caught between the soldiers and none escaped. And then immediately after that it says, and those that escaped, they went out, caught them all, and none survived. And then immediately after that it says, and then they went into the city of Ai and killed all the men that were in there.

In the middle of Joshua 10, you have this kind of language of wiping everyone out, and then it has one part where it says they went and killed them all, and then the survivors escaped to the city. And at the start of the book of Judges, you see the same thing. There's the city of Jerusalem or the Jezebelites, and it's talked twice in that chapter. That city is attacked.

The first time it says it's attacked, everyone is killed. And then a few verses later, it's talking about how many people are in there and they have to take it over again. So if you just read the text, You know, without sort of any sort of knowledge of ancient Near Eastern background or literary tropes or whatever from that particular culture, immediate questions arise as to what is going on here. Now, this author has put stark contrast into this text, into the same book, right next to one another in the canon. And that should lead us to ask the question, well, what's really going on here?

And to sort of approach it and just sort of literally, it's almost to sort of say, well, we're going to side with this text, these ones here that are literal, And we're going to ignore the rest of the text. Well, you know, if you're going to be selective, why select that way? It's almost like the person is choosing to read those passages as the dominant ones, the important ones, and discounting all the qualifications in which those statements come.

And it is, therefore, critically important that Christians in particular not only learn how to take the kinds of invective leveled against the Bible and use it as an opportunity to share the truth and love and grace with that the God of the Bible really extends to people, but it's a matter of learning as believers to read the Bible for all its worth, to mine the Bible for all its wealth. I mean, God unequivocally commanded Israel to treat the aliens living among them with respect and equality, and foreigners living among the Israelites were allowed to celebrate Passover.

They benefited from an agrarian system of welfare, and they enjoyed full legal protection. And so We know in context that this is not the obliteration of the wicked as much as the obliteration of wickedness that's going on. Sure.

And I mean, even the passage you read at the start of the show, Hank, I mean, it said there at the very start, in the cities, in the land I am giving you, now the previous passage has just spelled out, don't do this in the cities outside of you. You know, so even when people like Christopher Hitchens or whatever say, oh, the Bible teaches us to commit genocide.

Even if you were to take those passages literally, it's not a command to all people everywhere in every military situation, go out and kill everyone. You know, even taken literally, it's a very qualified statement. It's saying, in this particular battle, I want you to do this. Now, the irony coming from Christopher Hitchens here is that Christopher Hitchens has, you articles defending Churchill's aerial bombing of German cities in World War II. I mean, I found an article the other day where he was criticizing something Pat Buchanan wrote, and he was talking about how we know, given how evil the Nazis were, that we needed to do this aerial bombing, which killed lots of civilians. Now, Does that mean that

Christopher Hitchens supports genociding every single person in the world? That he hates all German people and foreigners?

No.

What he's arguing there is he's saying in a particular military context, I think this was necessary. Now, we can agree or disagree with him on that, but it would be really uncharitable to sort of take that statement and then say that it wasn't qualified in the context that it was. Even if you take the passage literally... You're quite right. It would at most say, in this particular military context, and then you'd have all these other passages around it which say, in general, when you're dealing with foreigners, treat them this way. In general, when you're dealing with other people, treat them this way. So again, it's about reading these things in their context and not letting people exaggerate or pull passages out of their context and sort

of run off with urban legends about what they say.

Dr. Matthew Flanagan, thank you so much for your contribution to the broadcast today and to the Christian Research Journal. God bless you. We'll be right back.

To find out more about the materials mentioned on the show, call a CRI resource consultant toll-free at 888-7000-CRI. That's 888-7000-CRI. Our website is also an excellent reference destination to help you. Just go to equip.org and find articles by Hank, books, CDs, and DVDs. Again, that's equip.org. Or write CRI PO Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, ZIP 28271. The Bible Answer Man will continue in just a moment. The Complete Bible Answer Book Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection of the most often asked questions Hank Hanegraaff has received throughout his four decades as host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast. With more than half a million copies already in print, this newly revised

and expanded Collector's Edition Help seekers and skeptics alike sort through the truth on topics such as reliability of the Bible, religions and cults, the resurrection and afterlife, and many more issues vital to a better understanding of God in Christ and our relationship to Him. To receive your copy of the complete Bible answer book, Collector's Edition, revised and expanded, call 888-7000-CRI. and make a gift to support the Christian Research Institute's life-changing outreaches, 888-7000-CRI, or visit us at equip.org.

The number of wolves surrounding the Christian flock is growing, and they relish nothing more than docile sheep utterly incapable of defending themselves. From militant secularists at home to militant Islamists abroad, the assaults on biblical Christianity are growing dangerously. But Christian Research Institute support team members aren't in favor of feeding these wolves. Instead, each day they're making possible an array of outreaches that defang these wolf packs with solid arguments and evidence that have stood the test of time.

What's more, support team members are equipping themselves with CRI's equipping essentials a hand-picked collection of the best apologetics tools around. Your selection of resources are just our way of saying thanks. To learn more about the benefits of membership, simply visit equip.org. Once again, that's equip.org. Has God spoken? Are the words of Scripture merely human in origin, or are they in fact the very words of God Himself? Three years in the making, and based on two decades of research and reflection, Hank Hanegraaff's monumental book, Has God Spoken?, answers what is surely the most important question facing our world. In Has God Spoken? Memorable Proofs of the Bible's Divine Inspiration, Hank

counters the contentions of the Bible attackers and clearly shows that belief in the Holy Scriptures is not a guess or wishful thinking. It is the only logical conclusion after an honest examination of overwhelming evidence. Order Has God Spoken from the Christian Research Institute by calling 888-7000-CRI or go online to equip.org, equip.org. And now, here's Hank Hanegraaff.

Thank you very much, Randy. And we will go right to our phone callers now. First up is Jay listening in Kansas.

Hi, Jay.

Hi.

How are you doing, Hank?

I'm doing well. Good talking to you.

Yeah, thanks. I enjoy listening to your program. Say, I have some questions about evolution here. First of all, I own a book. It's called Darwin. On page number 650, it mentions the Neanderthal man. And according to the 82 here, there at the very bottom, it talks about it in June the 1st, 1868. And it says this, it must be admitted that some skulls of very high quality, high antiquity, such as the famous Neanderthal, are well-developed and capricious. Anyway, I also own your book. It's called Fatal Flaws. And actually, in your book, I can only find where it seems like in passing on page number 35 in your book.

I'm a man that likes to dot all his I's and crosses all his T's. And my question to you is this. Doesn't the Neanderthal man and the Comagnes and Lucy prove the doctrine of evolution over the Bible?

No, I mean, I think for certain what has happened is that the ape-to-man icon has become the argument. In other words, the problem here is that you have an icon. The icon makes all kinds of presuppositions that are simply false. And I think if you want to be more current, you can go to Discovery of Darwinist Massilli. When you read about it, it's like finding the lost ark or the scientific equivalent of the Holy Grail. It's the most important fossil found in 47 million years, according to evolutionists.

It's the mother of all monkeys. But what is it? Actually, it's a silly in-house debate among evolutionists as to whether Darwinism is silly, is an ancestor of lemurs or monkeys. It doesn't do anything whatsoever to to settle the creation evolution question. What it does is it bestows fame and fortune on its finders, but does little to distinguish itself as a prime exemplar of human evolution. The truth is this, there is an unbridgeable chasm between hominids and humans, and that is in both composition and in culture. And similar structures on different species do not provide proof genealogical relationships.

Common descent is just an evolutionary assumption to explain similarities. In reality, the distance between an ape who can't read or write and a descendant of Adam is the distance of infinity. And the reason I say that is evolution cannot account for the genesis of life. Much less can it account for for metaphysical realities such as consciousness and spirituality.

So I don't think the ape-to-man icon helps in any sense whatsoever. I certainly recognize that you have fame and fortune that have come to people like Donald Johanson, best known for his discovery of a famous fossil named Lucy. But this is the guy who also regards Java Man as a valid transitional form. So they're believing in mythology that actually has been undermined by evolutionists themselves. Java Man, or Pythocanthropus Erectus, was completely discounted by evolutionists themselves who produced a 342-page report that shows that Pythocanthropus Erectus plays no part whatsoever in human evolution. So I don't think that these ape-men fictions, fantasies, and frauds help the evolutionary paradigm anymore. in any sense whatsoever. Let's go back to

the phone lines, talk to Alice, also listening in Kansas. Hi, Alice.

Hi, Hank. I listen to your program on the radio quite often and enjoy it very much. I would like to know about the NIV Bible and the Message Bible, and what is the best Bible to use?

Well, I think that the Message is a paraphrase that you have to be a little bit careful with, because what Peterson does in the Message is he goes beyond the range of words that is acceptable from the original languages of the Bible into the receptor language, English. For example, in Matthew 5.48, where Jesus says, be perfect... Peterson changes it to grow up your kingdom subjects. Now live like it.

Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously towards others the way God lives towards you. Or I think of the Lord's Prayer. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Well, Peterson completely leaves out any equivalent to hallowed be thy name, which is a particularly precious part of the prayer in my book, The Prayer of Jesus, I point out how significant that phrase is and all of its permutations. So I think that the message oftentimes squeezes the New Testament into the mold of today's politically correct culture. And again, it's not a translation, but a paraphrase. On the contrary, the NIV is a very good, what's called dynamic equivalency. A formal

equivalency is more of a word-for-word translation. This is more of a thought-for-thought translation. And oftentimes, you can get the sense from one language into another language much better when you go thought-for-thought as opposed to word-for-word. So I think that the NIV is an extraordinarily good translation of the Bible that takes into account the best archaeological evidence, the best manuscript evidence, and also the transition in meaning of words over time. Words in Elizabethan English today are connotative.

They're not denotative. So the NIV takes the words that are connotative and changes them back to their denotative meaning.

Oh, okay.

And what would you suggest to be the best Bible for someone to really use?

Well, that's why I say I think the NIV is a great translation. The New King James Version is a wonderful translation. The NASV is good. I mean, we have a plethora of wonderful translations. In fact, we did an article in the Christian Research Journal which deals with Bible translations, the differences, and provides recommendations as well. But I certainly would recommend the NIV.

Oh, well, great. And the message, do you think that's a very good Bible? I mean, I don't know if it's a Bible.

Or not, but it's... Well, it's a paraphrase, and you have to take that into consideration. And as I said, I mean, there are parts of it that I have real problems with. That is not to say that he doesn't do a good job in certain segments of the message, but you have to be very careful when you read that. Okay, one of the reasons why.

I got off on the NIV is I thought, oh dear, I've been reading it for quite a while, but then I was listening to Jimmy Swaggart, and he said NIV is a bad, bad Bible to use.

Well, Jimmy Swaggart is a very, very bad Bible teacher.

Oh, he is?

Yes. He's not someone who is trustworthy or credible in any sense. I would not recommend his ministry. And certainly, he's a guy that you have to take with a huge grain of salt. If you're listening to him, you better have good discernment skills.

Okay, fine. That's exactly my question answered. I appreciate it very much, Hank.

You got it. Thank you so much for your call. Back to the phone lines. We'll talk next to Bobbi, listening in Houston, Texas. Hi, Bobbi.

Yes.

Hi, Hank.

Just to say you and your ministry is such a great, great blessing. Thank you so much.

You got it.

A quick question here. I was wondering what your personal opinion is of the Jack Van Eppie ministry.

Well, I mean, this is a guy that I would characterize as a pin the tail on the Antichrist kind of person. I mean, he is a guy that raising the bar on sensationalism and sophistry when it comes to biblical prophecy. For example, you know, the basic idea has been for a long time that the generation that saw Israel return to the land was the generation that would see the return of Jesus Christ. And the way it basically worked out is that 1948 was the year, and then people would add 40 years to that to come up with 1988, and then subtract seven for a tribulation period, and they would say the secret coming of Christ would take place, therefore, in 1981, the second coming in 1988. Well, that didn't work out very well. So as a result

of that, they went back to the drawing board, and they said, well, maybe it wasn't 1948. Maybe it was June 10, 1967, when the state of Israel launched preemptive attacks on Egypt and Syria and Iraq and Jordan. and within six days occupied the Golan Heights, Gaza, the Sinai, the West Bank, and most importantly, Jerusalem. And this time, the math was downright magical because they took the 1967, added 40, came up with 2007, subtracted 7, bingo, the year 2000. But again, the stars failed to align. Jesus didn't come back in a secret rapture, and there wasn't a second coming seven years later. So then, Jack Van Impey, ever the innovator, held false prophecy charges at bay by recalibrating a generation at 50 years. In fact, his exact

calibration was 51.2 years. As a result of that, he says you come out pretty close to 2018, 2019, subtract seven years from that, we're talking about 2012. And then... On top of that, not only does he set that as a likely date, but he finds confirmation in the Mayan calendar. He says the Mayan calendar ends December 21, 2011.

It's all there, ladies and gentlemen. There you have it. So all of that simply to point out is that he is upping the ante and just making a mockery out of biblical eschatology in the process. He's dragging Christ's name through the mud and as a result, not a very reliable teacher.

Okay.

Well, that's sad to hear, but your opinion is deeply noted, and I appreciate your time in answering my question. Thank you, Hank. God bless to you and yours.

Thank you so much. So long for now.

You've been listening to the Bible Answer Man broadcast with Hank Hanegraaff. Our mailing address is P.O. Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, zip code 28271. To listen to the broadcast on the internet, visit equip.org. where you'll also find a wealth of information and resources to equip you. To talk to a resource consultant, call 888-7000-CRI. That's 888-7000-274. The Bible Answer Man broadcast is supported.

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We're on the air because life and truth matter. The Complete Bible Answer Book Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection of the most often asked questions Hank Hanegraaff has received throughout his four decades as host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast. With more than half a million copies already in print, this newly revised and expanded Collector's Edition Help seekers and skeptics alike sort through the truth on topics such as reliability of the Bible, religions and cults, the resurrection and afterlife, and many more issues vital to a better understanding of God in Christ and our relationship to Him.

To receive your copy of the complete Bible answer book, collector's edition, revised and expanded, call 888-7000-CRI and make a gift to support the Christian Research Institute's life-changing outreaches.

888-7000-CRI or visit us at equip.org.

Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? with Matthew Flannagan, and Q&A

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