Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/19 I Giants vs. Saints Review

0:04 It's time for a big blue kickoff live.

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0:27 Hello again, everybody, and welcome to Monday's edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live, presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York football giants. Paul Totino, Matt Sitek, we're here with you for the next hour to talk New York Giants football and other NFL headlines. Of course, I'm sure you guys are aware of. the headline that just broke in a very short time ago.

0:48 We'll get to, excuse me, I'm sorry. We'll get to that in just a minute. I don't mean to get choked up about it. Yeah, my goodness.

0:55 Anyway, we are coming to you from the Giants podcast studio presented by Hackensack Meridian Health. Keep getting better. Our phone number, if you'd like to participate, is 201-939-4513. 201-939-4513. Also, as you know, this show is simulcast live on the Giants YouTube channel. You can hit us up there with some questions or comments if you just don't feel like calling in. And an archive of this show, as always, with our entire podcast network is available on the Giants mobile app, podcast platforms everywhere, the Giants YouTube channel, and and at Giants.com slash podcasts. All right, before we get to the Giants game yesterday, which was obviously a very discouraging loss to the New Orleans Saints here at MetLife Stadium,

1:42 it is important for us to acknowledge the huge NFL story that broke within the last hour or so, that quarterback Jalen Hurts of the Philadelphia Eagles will miss the rest of the season due to blood clots in his lungs. Obviously serious business. The first thing that when I heard that news, I said to myself, you know, I remember some giants who had the same thing happen to them and it actually ended their careers. I remember Sean Andrews.

2:10 who was an offensive lineman, formerly with the Philadelphia Eagles. He came to the Giants near the end of his career. He was really afflicted with a lot of back problems, but he seemed to be working through those. And the Giants were kind of hoping that he would not only be like their sixth offensive lineman, but potentially even maybe compete for a starting job. And then suddenly we heard that he had the blood clot issue and he was forced to retire. I seem to remember, too, Billy Pierce, who was a center that we traded for from the Cincinnati Bengals a few years back also. Another one. I remember the Giants had him for a year. And then he wound up coming down with blood clots in his lungs.

2:53 And he was forced to retire. I believe he even had emergency surgery for it. So those are two recent Giants that I remember dealing with this particular issue. And it turned out to end their careers. certainly prayers and well wishes to Jalen Hurts for whatever he has to endure and go through to get himself well and healthy, never mind returning to the football field. That is not something I think anybody should be thinking about today.

3:22 No, definitely not. I mean, obviously the news originally came out last week and the way that it was originally framed, you know, it didn't sound like it was like, A huge deal. I mean, obviously, you know, they were saying blood clots in his calf or a blood clot in his calf. And anytime the words blood clot are mentioned, it's obviously it's not your, you know, your standard typical NFL injury that we see, you know, each and every week. Unfortunately, that is bringing it to a whole other stratosphere of injuries.

3:54 And then so that I was surprised when these reports came out this morning. I mean, obviously he was put on injured reserve, which meant he was going to miss a minimum of four games. But the initial reporting was that, you know, he was probably put on blood thinners for about a month or so. So that maybe he would be out for maybe six weeks and then TBD after that.

4:15 And then the news came out this morning that I guess the blood clots, which were announced to be superficial blood clots, which means they could potentially move and they moved to his lungs. And now all of a sudden we're talking again, way more serious of an issue. this goes well beyond football. No doubt. Like obviously this is a division rival and the starting quarterback, a Superbowl champion of a division rival. So it obviously has football implications, but right now the most important thing is for Jalen hurts as a human being, as a man to just get healthy and make sure that he deals with this situation and is completely cleared just from a, again, from a human standpoint, you know, Let the football stuff next

5:00 year you want to talk about it, fine. 2027, fine. But he just needs to get healthy.

5:06 As far as the division is concerned, folks, for those of you who may not have stayed up last night to watch the Dallas Cowboys get whacked, well, the entire NFC East.

5:15 Wound up being 0-3 yesterday. And there's one more to go.

5:21 Washington's in San Francisco tonight.

5:23 I'm sure you have seen the stat that's been going around. I have. Social media.

5:28 I have.

5:28 That if the commanders lose tonight, it will be the first time since the merger in 1970. The very first time that a division went two full weeks with everyone playing both weeks with zero wins combined. Yeah.

5:49 And.

5:50 Obviously, the 49ers are dealing with their own slew of injuries, especially when it comes to the wide receiver position. But they are still pretty heavy favorites. The game's in San Francisco. Obviously, you never know. But if the favorite does end up winning, then it will be two straight weeks without a win in the NFC East, which is crazy, especially because two of the teams played each other last week. But we don't need to go back into the tie again.

6:18 Most importantly, as we all know, if you follow sports and you follow the standings on a regular basis, the loss column is always the most important column of all. We talk about, you know, well, you know, you hate the tie because it's not a win. No, no, no, no, no, no. There are times when a tie is beneficial. We've discussed that in the past as well. It is the loss column that is always the most critical, especially if you are the team in the lead. Because when teams behind you have more losses, well, that means you can do something about it, right? Because they've already lost those games.

6:52 Those losses are on their permanent record. The Cowboys have four losses. The Eagles have four losses. The Giants have two. Washington has three. They lose tonight. They'll have four losses. There is a potential that the Giants will have a two-loss lead over everyone in the division with Houston on deck.

7:12 That's a road game in Texas.

7:14 You guys know that. The Giants have to fly down there.

7:17 And then have the bye week after that, which, folks, I'm going to tell you this right now. I think it's a good time for the Giants bye.

7:25 Yeah. I mean, to your latter point, 100%. I mean, obviously the Giants have, just like every team across the league, have endured injuries, and especially in the last couple of weeks, and I'm not talking about the serious season ending ones to Jackson Dart and Brian Burns, like those, what's done is done. I'm talking about the guys that are still going to be contributing at some point this season, whether it's, you know, starting this coming week or after the bye, it just will give everyone some time to rest up.

7:55 I mean, in particular, Andrew Thomas comes to mind because he's what he has been playing through, like God knows what he's been playing through, but he's been toughing it out for several weeks now. And I think getting a full week off and not having to prepare and play in a game next week is going to do him wonders for the second half of the season, for sure.

8:16 But in terms of your initial point, look, we're going to get into it. All of the calls are going to be about yesterday's game. And as Paul, as you mentioned, It was not a good game. Obviously, the comeback attempt late was exciting. And I love seeing the fight that this team shows. We talk about this nearly every week.

8:36 Until the clock says zero minutes and zero seconds left in the fourth quarter, this team is never going to stop fighting. And that is something I think everyone should be excited about and happy to see.

8:48 But.

8:49 You obviously don't want to be in a situation where you are leaning on a miraculous fourth quarter comeback each and every week in order to try to win a game. But all that being said, as you mentioned, Paul, no matter what, if the commanders lose tonight, despite what happened at MetLife Stadium yesterday, the Giants will head into week seven with a two-game lead in the division. So while it might feel like at times that the sky is falling, it most certainly is not. Like there is still... so much football left to be played and the Giants are still in the driver's seat in terms of the division race.

9:23 So just keep that in mind when all the feelings and thoughts are, oh, the sky is falling, this Giants team holds left and right. The sky is not falling. There obviously are a lot of things that need to be improved and improved significantly, as Coach himself was talking about yesterday. Without a doubt. But the sky is not falling.

9:46 Like we say all the time, it's the NFL. There are no style points. The NFL looks at the W's and the L's and the ties, if need be, at the end of the season and figures out who gets to go to the playoff party. It's just that simple. And it doesn't matter how many ugly games you won or how many ugly games you lost.

10:08 All they care about is what did you win and what did you lose.

10:11 The ugliness or the prettiness, if you will, doesn't matter. So, The Giants right now, they are in the driver's seat. They've got a little bit of a cushion. That's just the way it is. And we will see how things go moving forward. Very briefly, we'll take a minute or two to recap the game for you. Then we're going to get to your calls. I'd like to do rapid fire today, if that's okay with you folks, because I have a feeling there are a lot of people who have a lot of emotions about what's going on with this team right now. And so I'm going to try to limit the calls to a quick comment. and try to get as many people in on this program as we possibly can. In terms of the game, the Giants got no running game going whatsoever. They did not do

10:56 an effective job stopping the run until their comeback. In their comeback, the defense stiffened. They gritted their teeth, and they made sure that the offense got the ball back and gave them enough of opportunities to where they came within 14 yards in the final seconds of tying this game. The special teams play, the coverage units and the return game, horrible.

11:23 They totally broke down. And that's very disappointing because we've been preaching all about John Hobart and the Giants special teams unit. They were sensational the first month of the season. And they have problems in Washington. And then they really broke down yesterday. I mean, the fumbled kickoff by Charlie Jones was the first fulcrum of the game. There were a couple others later on, but that one was the one that really changed the course of the game.

11:52 Yeah, I mean, you never want to pinpoint one play and say, you know, that was the play that cost the team. I didn't say it cost them. I said it changed the game. I'm not saying you did. I'm just generally speaking. But, I mean, there's no doubt about it. That turned the momentum. Like, the Giants, the first... chunk of the game felt like they were in complete control of the game. I mean, when they went up 10-0, even the Saints then driving down, kicking the field goal, it still felt like, all right, the Giants are in great shape now. We have time before the half. Try to get that field goal right back before you kick it off to the Saints. And then obviously the fumble leads to a Saints touchdown as time expires in the

12:34 second quarter. And then they get to then double up. So all of a sudden... what turned into what felt like a comfortable lead changed to the saints just scored 17 unanswered points in a matter of, I.

12:47 Don't know how many five and a half minutes, five and a half minutes of the game.

12:50 Yeah.

12:51 So all of a sudden that momentum completely shifted. And that's not an excuse. Like you gotta, if the momentum seems to be starting to shift, you gotta do something to stop it. And in the, the, for the third quarter, the giants just were not able to do that. No, they were not at all. And they're, there's not one thing you can point to because it was everything on both sides of the ball really that led to them getting down 24 points. Like even when they scored that touchdown to start the second half, it was still, what was the score then? Seven, 17 to 10?

13:24 Yes.

13:25 Still a one possession game. And then things kind of spiraled very quickly. And, you know, obviously it took a, insane effort in the fourth quarter and that was both sides of the ball I know obviously the offense and you know J.J. McCarthy is getting a lot of the attention and rightfully so because what the offense and J.J.

13:45 did in the fourth quarter was very impressive but as you mentioned the defense also kept the Giants in that game after obviously there were plenty of holes in the first three plus quarters but But when the Giants first started making this comeback attempt, this is what the Giants' defense did. After the J.J. McCarthy interception, which was towards the very beginning of the fourth quarter, the next Saints drive, two plays, eight yards, fumble, which the Giants recovered. Next drive, three plays, zero yards. Next drive, three plays, five yards.

14:21 Next play, three plays, seven yards. The defense, obviously... had its flaws in the first three plus quarters. But when it came down to it and the Giants were making this miraculous comeback effort, the defense stepped up and they got the stops in the run game, in the pass game. They did what they needed to do to give the offense a chance. And again, you don't want to be in the situation where you need to rely on this crazy fourth quarter comeback in order to try to win a game. But at the end of the day, they did have an opportunity to win this game. And that was because of the play of both sides of the ball in the fourth quarter.

14:58 Yeah, and John Harbaugh did say after the game that they scored that touchdown. They were going to go for two, actually. They were not going to settle for the tie. He wanted to go for two. So, look, bottom line is what's done is done.

15:10 They are 3-2-1.

15:12 J.J. McCarthy, in his first significant action as a Giants quarterback, played about 11 minutes in the game, and it was pretty darn exciting. I'm not going to lie. He led them to 17 points, a couple of touchdowns, and a field goal. There was a tremendous spark in the stadium and a tremendous amount of life and electricity that was injected into the stadium. But now the Giants need to get back to the grindstone because they've got a tough Houston Texans team coming up on Sunday. What I love about Coach Harbaugh, and I'm going to get to your calls right after I make this final point, because.

15:45 There's going to be speculation.

15:46 There are going to be people who call up. There are going to be people writing about it. There are going to be people talking about it on television. Oh, what are they going to do with quarterback? I'll only say this. John Harbaugh right now is the only guy who knows what he's going to do. And that is he's going to think about it. And he's going to look at the facts. And if there's one thing that I know about John Harbaugh, since I've only known him since January, since he got here, is that he's not going to let anything you say, I say, or Johnny Mac says to influence him.

16:17 Okay?

16:17 He doesn't care. John Harbaugh is a guy who is strictly going to look at the facts, all of the truths that are evident within this football team and within his quarterback room, and he is going to add up the specifics of his equation and come up with a result. And that's what he is going to decide to do at quarterback. He will not bow down to anybody's pressure.

16:43 He will not bow down to anybody's headlines. No, no, he will not do that. He sticks to facts. I've only known him a short time. But what I know about John Harbaugh, he doesn't care about image. He doesn't care about outside forces.

17:01 He's going to.

17:01 Strictly stick to the facts. and make his quarterback decision. So before you guys call up and give us about 45 minutes of ranting and raving about who the starting quarterback should be, I don't know. He doesn't know. And John Harbaugh may or may not even know at this point who it's going to be. But I'm telling you now, he's not going to succumb to outside pressure. Yeah.

17:25 I mean, if there's anything we've learned since he took over, it's he does not care about public perception. He's going to do what he thinks is best for the New York football giants. And that comes with every decision roster wise, personnel wise, like coaching wise, everything he's doing is what he believes is the best benefit to the New York football giants. And while people might disagree, we might disagree with some decisions made. The beat reporters might disagree. Everyone might disagree, but you got to give the benefit of the doubt to the very successful New Super Bowl winning head coach.

18:02 Future Hall of Famer.

18:03 Future Hall of Famer that is among the all-time leaders and wins and head coaches. Gotta give him the benefit of the doubt. I believe that he knows what he is doing. He's building... or trying to build a culture here that is going to last well beyond just this season. And that might lead to some decisions that people don't like.

18:21 And by the way, the players also, guys in the locker room, they respect the guy a whole hell of a lot more when he strictly makes decisions on facts and does not bow to outside influences. This will give him even more cred in the locker room. Not that he needs it because he's already got a ton of it, But the fact that he will not let outside forces get involved, that's the best thing he could do for this team. For whatever decision he makes, it is the best thing he could do for this team.

18:55 201-939-4513. We go to the.

18:58 Phones, and we will start on line three with Bruce from Flushing. You are first on the program. Hello.

19:03 Hey, guys. Carl Banks made a comment after the post-game show. yesterday that the Giants weren't committed to the run that they had in previous games, like the Dallas game. He said even in the first half, only Patrick Ricard was only on the field like less than 50% of the time. To me, you have the team that has the worst record in run defense, And you have a team that's built for running, and you're not running. Doesn't make any sense.

19:35 Didn't make any sense to call. And I want to hear your comments on that. And the second point is, we know James Winston likes to go out with a shotgun. Since you need to run and have ball control and play action off the pass, that may be another reason why you put J.J. McCarthy in quarterback because he's evidently more comfortable right behind the center than playing shotgun. Your comments.

20:06 What do you want to take first? I'll take the second one first.

20:10 Sure.

20:10 And you can take the first one.

20:11 Okay.

20:12 Well, look, the Giants went out and traded for J.J. McCarthy. There were numerous quarterbacks available, whether it was off the street or on a trade with another team. Like there were options out there that the Giants could have pursued, but they targeted J.J. McCarthy. I do think part of that is because his skill set does line up with a lot more so with the playbook that, you know, the team was implementing all offseason and training camp. So, you know, and. with Jackson Dart's skill set. He's not Jackson Dart, but the fact that he has that dual threat ability, I think obviously is he has that more than, than Jameis Winston. Of course, I don't know. I'm not breaking news there. Uh, so there is a reason why

20:56 they went out and acquired him, I believe in terms of the quarterback options. So I agree with you that part of it is that dual threat ability, which could open things up in the run game, the play action game, of course. So, uh, In that sense, I do agree with you, Bruce.

21:14 As far as your first question, Ricard played 11 snaps, only 14% of the game yesterday. Now, 13 carries for 30 yards was the Giants' rushing total at halftime. 20 of those yards came on a Mooney wide receiver and around. They did not get anything going in the running game at all, but yet the score was tied 10-10. So what I would say to you is Patrick Ricard was brought here because the Giants wanted to play bully ball.

21:44 They gave him a very sizable salary to come here and to effectively get that type of style into their locker room. Do I think he has been underutilized?

21:55 Yes, I do.

21:56 But I don't think it's just this game. I think that on the whole, Ricard has been underutilized. I would like to see Pancake Patrick... continue to mash people and pave the way for the rest of the Giants running backs. So, in general, I concur. I would like to see more of Ricard. I'd like to see more patience with the run game. I'd like to see more running out of the I formation. And I'd like to see the Giants see if they can inflict some pain on people by pounding the rock. Now, for various reasons, including game flow, which is what I'm sure Coach Harbaugh would say to you, Game flow is not allowed that to happen. But here's what I will give you in passing. Greg Roman is the Giants run game coordinator. He is one of those

22:45 guys who salivates at every running play he can get.

22:48 His hands on.

22:50 I trust him, his track record, and his resume to be thinking about everything he can do to enforce the running game. The bad news is, to this point, it has not happened, I think, to a lot of our likings. But I do trust Greg Roman, and I do trust Matt Nagy, and I do trust John Harbaugh, that it's been a little bit out of their control. Various circumstances have obviously inhibited Ricard's impact. I hope, sooner rather than later...

23:21 he becomes more impactful on this team by paving the way for whoever's running the ball behind him. And Bruce, that's the best answer I can give you.

23:30 And Bruce, you brought up the Cowboys game. And this goes with what, Paul, you were just saying. That's the only game this season where game flow supported the Giants just pounding the ball on the ground. Every other game has been a very close game or Giants in comeback mode. That was the only game where they really just controlled everything from the opening possession. So I think there's, like, obviously, I think everyone in this building would love more games to go like that. Every game should go like that.

23:58 That's the goal. But obviously, as Paul, as you mentioned, game flow plays a huge part in that. If you're in comeback mode, you can't have Pat Ricard on the field every snap, you know, trying to run the ball. It's just not, that's not possible.

24:14 Bruce, thanks for the call. We're going to go to Rich in Florida. You're next on the program.

24:18 Hi, Rich.

24:20 Hi, guys. Good afternoon. Always a pleasure. Most importantly, prayers out for Jalen Hurts. That's a very serious situation. He's got blood clots.

24:29 In his lungs.

24:30 I know he's a strong believer, and the Lord can heal him right now, and that's my prayer for him, so God bless him.

24:37 Sure thing.

24:37 Paul, I would like to do a small die-hard favor. If you get a chance in media availability to ask either Greg Roman or Matt Nagy, What is the actual technical problem with the offensive line? Three things. Is it technique? Is it strength? Or is it just lack of ability? My concern is the interior. They're just not getting the push.

25:02 I realize they've got a lot of times when... Run it in the eight-man boxes, nine-man boxes. That's what I said to you guys last week or so. Run out of the spread, pass out of 21 personnel. And I didn't see that much yesterday. So if you could ask them that, the O-line, it's just, you can't run.

25:22 I mean, what did you say, 30 yards.

25:25 In the first half? You can't win like that, let's face it. So if you can do that, I think all of us would really appreciate your answers.

25:33 Yeah, we don't get to talk to Greg Roman. He is not one of the coaches that I see around very often.

25:39 He's in his lab. It's the position coaches that do speak every day.

25:45 But we do get to see the coordinators, and Matt Nagy, of course, does have his usual coordinator media briefing. So we will get a chance to see him. But I will say this. There's no doubt that the Giants have been underwhelmed at the center position, right? I think Hudson and JMS have basically split the time at center, and I don't think the production has been exactly what you would want from that spot. And I would also tell you I don't think John Runyon has played as well as I'm sure he thinks he can play. Now, Malinoa, on the other hand, has been spectacular for a rookie, and he's an interior lineman. So you've got to be careful when you just say the Giants' interior line isn't getting it done. I think two-thirds of the trio are

26:31 admittedly a bit underwhelming right now. I think they would tell you that. And, quite frankly, you mentioned Andrew Thomas, Matt. Andrew Thomas, who is a ferocious run blocker. Everybody talks about his pass blocking. When you see Andrew Thomas' right, He destroys people on the edge. They don't have any chance to get to the ball carrier. And Andrew Thomas is not right. That groin injury is really impacting him.

26:55 Yeah, for sure.

26:56 I will say in terms of— No, no, you can see that. He's playing on one and a half legs, and now he's got a possible concussion.

27:04 He was cleared— No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He clarified in the locker room after the game that he was cleared from concussion protocol, so he does.

27:11 Not have a concussion.

27:13 Super.

27:13 The bye week's going to really help him. My issue is not with the tackles, Paul.

27:18 It's with the interior.

27:19 And let's face it, too. I got a lot of Bobby Skinner, if you look at his whole line report. May know is going to be a really good guard. Remember, he's playing guard, not tackle. He's still a rookie.

27:30 He's still a rookie.

27:31 So your comments on the other two guys, John Runyon and either JMS or Hudson, I couldn't agree with you more. But they know this. They've got to run the ball, and it starts with the O-line. And some people say there's a running back problem. I disagree. They have to have a– Jim Brown couldn't run through somebody. There's no holes.

27:52 Let's face it.

27:53 Yeah, Rich, they haven't been getting enough push in general off of the line. And again, we've seen Ricard get fewer snaps for various reasons than I would like, because that's part of how you can help out your running backs, right? Is make sure that they run up Ricard's back.

28:10 So, you know, I appreciate that number. I was not aware of that. I couldn't agree with you and Matt Moore.

28:16 That's why they've got Pat.

28:18 Ricard in there is to play a fullback. I mean, we haven't had a fullback since the, since the Heinosaurus. Let's face it.

28:24 Correct.

28:24 And he's a great player. Use him.

28:27 Every Giants Super Bowl team, even the one that they lost in 2000, every single one of those teams had a full-time fullback.

28:37 That's right.

28:37 I'm with you, Paul.

28:38 All right. Be good, my man.

28:40 All right.

28:41 Thanks, guys.

28:41 Thanks, Rich. CeCe, I think he just needs more time. I push back a little bit. I wouldn't say he's been spectacular. I think he's had definitely some highs, but also some lows. He's a rookie offensive lineman that's going through growing pains of getting accustomed to play in the NFL, but I could not be less worried about him long-term.

29:03 He's just figuring out his way. Again, as Rich just mentioned, at a position where he played tackle at Miami. He's more than capable of playing guard, but he's still getting accustomed not only to the speed of the NFL, but now to a different position.

29:18 The speed of the guard spot is another accelerated part of his game that he's got to adjust to.

29:23 For sure. But I have no long-term concerns about him at all. I don't either. He's got the mental makeup and the physical tools. He will be fine.

29:31 Now, by the way, Giants had two young linemen in there yesterday.

29:34 J.C.

29:35 Davis came in relief of Andrew Thomas. And did you see the block? that he caved in the edge on Tyrone Tracy's touchdown run did you.

29:45 Get a chance to look at that again I did I was again this was limited amount of snaps he played I think 22 total snaps J.C. Davis but or 22 pass blocking snaps he looked good Again, it was the circumstances. Obviously, it was in full comeback mode. It's not like the Saints were sending blitzes every play. But he looked good in his limited action. This is the first time we've seen him in a regular season game. Obviously, he played a ton in the preseason. But I was impressed with how he looked. Consider that he was in there during the comeback. Yeah. Okay?

30:23 And you didn't hear him get called for a penalty?

30:27 No.

30:27 And you didn't hear him get tagged for a sack. Not only that, but at least for PFF, they had him as no, no, no grades, nothing like that. But they credited him with zero pressures allowed. And the Giants were throwing it just about every play that he was in the comeback mode that he was out there for.

30:49 They ran the ball three times of the 25 snaps he was on the field. Zero pressures allowed. Again, they weren't sending blitzes. They were... I'm not going to say they were playing... I mean, they were playing a little soft because it's... Oh, no doubt. You had a 24-point lead in the fourth quarter. But nonetheless.

31:05 Nonetheless, two drives.

31:06 Nonetheless, he shut down whoever was in front of him trying to get to J.J.

31:10 McCarthy.

31:11 It was usually Chase Young.

31:12 Yeah.

31:12 Who's having a very good season. And Marcus Bowe, of course, was on the other side.

31:16 Yes. In for Jermaine Illuminor.

31:18 And I thought Bowe did a solid job, too.

31:21 And a.

31:22 On a similar note, so Bowe is on the field obviously all game, 58 pass block snaps, PFF had him down for one pressure allowed.

31:31 But as Rich noted, the interior, specifically two of the three on the interior, have not necessarily reached their goals in terms of how they're playing. And again, I tell you this because we talk to John Runyon all the time, and we talk to JMS, and we talk to Hudson. These guys are good guys, and they will tell you that they're not playing as well as they would like.

31:51 Yeah.

31:52 We go back to the phones. Thomas in New York. You're next on the show.

31:55 Hello.

31:56 How you doing, fellas?

31:58 Good morning.

31:59 Good morning, sir. Hey, Thomas.

32:00 I just really wanted to talk about, I was at the game yesterday, exited after Winston threw the second pick. I think it was 27-10 at this point. I pretty much, in my mind, I was like, J.J. McCarthy's going to be starting next week. Not to mention that he ends up going in the game and doing that. I think and I feel like in this day and age, unless you're an unbelievable pocket passer, you need a guy that's going to be mobile, and especially with how our line's struggling right now, a guy like J.J. McCarthy is going to be the guy moving forward, and I would like to see your points here.

32:31 Well, as Paul mentioned at the jump, we obviously have no idea where Coach Harbaugh and the coaching staff are leading. The only thing I will say is it was literally– eight days ago that Jameis Winston threw for over 300 yards and three touchdowns with no interceptions. So I understand he struggled yesterday, no doubt about it. There's a reason why he got pulled in the fourth quarter. But I don't think, like, it's not fair to just kind of, I say, throw him to the side and be like, he can't cut it in the NFL anymore. Like, he had two straight weeks of playing pretty good quarterback for the Giants. It helped him win against the Cardinals and tie against the Commanders.

33:12 Look, I will say this, and I'll leave you with this, Thomas, because we could debate this for as long as people want to debate it. As I've said, John Halbaugh is not going to succumb to anybody's pressure. He's going to do what he believes the facts will direct him to do. But I will mention this to you. After the game, when I talked to J.J. McCarthy, he was on the MSG Post Game Show, and I asked him about how much did the preparation that you've done over the last few weeks help you and was it useful in this game?

33:40 And he was talking about people, you know, he threw a bunch of passes to neighbors and likely and basically he said, those are the only routes I knew. I mean, he knows he's got a small slice of the pizza pie right now. I think it's asking an awful lot of the young man, an awful lot to throw him in as a starter this week against the Houston Texans, who have a lot of talent on defense and have underachieved so far this season, but apparently have woken up.

34:11 Over the last two weeks.

34:13 That is a Herculean task that you would be asking him to navigate. So I would say this. If you are in the pro J.J. McCarthy camp that he needs to start, I would say at least hold your horses a moment and acknowledge the value of perhaps letting him sit for another week. And then you get the bye week, which would give him an additional week. to prepare, and so then maybe coming out of the bye might give him a better chance to realistically compete if he's had more consumption of the playbook.

34:52 How about that?

34:54 I mean, I think that's a fair point, but ultimately we've seen Jameis at multiple franchises, whether it was the Browns or even when he was on the Saints, and he's clearly inconsistent. He shows that game by game.

35:05 That's what he is.

35:06 He had a great game against the Cardinals, but You know, the Saints have given up, I don't know, top five, top three most points scored in the league, and we were able to just do absolutely nothing throughout the game. And then you throw in McCarthy, and I understand that we're playing a little bit laid back down the stretch. But, I mean, those last two drives, he still got down the field, and they were playing real legit defense.

35:25 I don't know.

35:26 I think, in my opinion, with his ability to scramble and how our line's struggling a bit, in this Houston game, he's going to be more effective than Winston will.

35:33 Thomas, the one thing I will say, I will say this to you. John Harbaugh did pull the trigger yesterday, right? He saw the facts that you saw and that I saw and that Matt saw. He saw the facts and said, OK, I'm going to do something. Put some faith in the coach. And if he thinks that's the right move, let him do it. And if he doesn't think it's the right move, let him do it.

35:57 I have all the faith in John Arbaugh. I'm not worried about that.

35:59 Okay. Good stuff. Thanks, Thomas.

36:01 Thank you.

36:03 Look, I wouldn't be surprised if Coach does decide to go with J.J. this week because obviously he showed a lot of juice and provided a humongous spark to this offense in the fourth quarter. But I also get completely what you're saying with this is not exactly the easiest matchup to be thrown into, and especially if considering that the bye is next week, you can give him like three full weeks before the next game to get more comfortable with the playbook.

36:28 That to me is– If you want to throw all of the other elements aside to the decision that John Harbaugh is going to make, the one overriding factor, I think, and this is me, folks.

36:42 I did not talk to Coach this morning.

36:44 He's going to have a 3.30 presser this afternoon, and all this stuff is going to be up there in the media right after that's done. I believe that his number one priority, before he even considers... making J.J. McCarthy potentially a starting quarterback is, how prepared is the young quarterback to be thrown into that spot? He knows how much McCarthy's been spoon-fed. He knows how much McCarthy's comfortable with.

37:15 He knows how much he can trust him with during the four quarters of.

37:20 A football game.

37:22 He's got to answer that question first, doesn't he, before anything else comes into play?

37:26 100%.

37:26 I mean, look, again, J.J. did look good yesterday, but let's not forget. 11 minutes. He's been here for, what, three weeks?

37:34 11 minutes of comeback football, which started against the prevent defense.

37:39 Let's please just put that into context just before we just say.

37:45 Okay, the kid's got to be the guy.

37:47 Can we do that? Yeah, I'm with you. All right.

37:51 We go back to the phones, and Johnny Mac, are we going to line three here? No, we're going to line two. Abdul in Minneapolis. You're next on the show. Hello.

37:59 Hey, guys. So I think the number one problem right now with the Giants is their running game, as you guys have been mentioning.

38:06 On the show.

38:07 And I don't think the way the team is currently made up to have– an explosive running back, or the blocking to have an explosive running game. So it has to be schemed up, right? And I think having JJ McCarthy as a quarterback will help the running game. Last year, the Giants had a top-five running game with basically the same But there was one difference. You had Dart. Jackson Dart was in there. And he ran. And the threat of him running also helped the boxes out. Because you had to defend him, too, which took one player out of the running game defense, if you get what I mean.

38:45 So I think that's probably the strongest reason for me wanting JJ McCarthy in there. Because, as I think you guys said earlier, he's– the offense is– made for someone like McCarthy, because he's very similar to Dart.

39:00 Okay.

39:00 I think that, to me, is one of my major reasons why I want McCarthy in there.

39:05 I'm going to ask you a question. I think later on this season.

39:07 I think that's the number one reason why they got him. Got him, like you said, for a fifth-round pick. And the offense just runs better with someone like him back there.

39:15 Okay, let me ask you a question. Hold on. We know who he is.

39:18 All right, hold on, hold on.

39:18 I'm going to let you finish, but I want to ask you a question, because.

39:23 And I'm not on either side of this fence right now because much like Coach Harbaugh, I think there are a lot of things, a lot of facts. you have to sift through before you make this call. I don't know that I would be able to make this call yet this morning. They don't get to the practice field until Wednesday. So they don't need to make this call right now.

39:40 They don't.

39:41 But let me ask you this question. You're talking about schematics in terms of the general philosophy of how the offense runs. And no one's going to disagree with you. McCarthy is much more like Dart. He's the running quarterback.

39:54 Fine.

39:55 All of that stuff is logical. No one is going to tell you you're wrong. But here's the question that I don't think you've answered or at least kind of.

40:06 Considered.

40:07 And that is, what if this coaching staff knows that J.J. McCarthy knows, what, 18%.

40:15 Of the playbook?

40:17 Are you really going to throw whatever the percentage is? And I'm just throwing a number out. Let's say it's less than half. He's only been here for a month. So chances are he probably doesn't.

40:28 Know a lot.

40:28 It may not be this week.

40:30 Oh, okay. I thought you were asking me for him to start against Houston.

40:34 I'm sorry.

40:35 The offense will be better.

40:37 The team will be better in the long run with JJ McCarthy.

40:40 Okay, and that's a perfectly valid opinion. I'm more or less talking about this week. For anyone who wants him to start against Houston, if he does not have a solid enough grasp on the playbook to go out there and effectively give his team a chance, then you're doing him and the team an injustice.

41:00 Yeah, I agree with that. I think the way the offense looked... As you said, it was going to prevent defense. Either way, it will be what it will be. The point of my phone call is for the rest of the week.

41:19 Understood.

41:20 Not this week, specifically.

41:22 Okay, great.

41:24 That's where I'm at with that.

41:25 Okay, thank you. So noted. Thank you, Abdul.

41:28 And again, if Coach thinks that he has enough of the playbook in his head, well then, I understand if they go that way. For sure.

41:35 And the one thing I do want to say about what JJ did yesterday, I know you mentioned that they were playing prevent defense, at least to start. Well, the point of prevent defense is to... take away the big plays down the field. And he hit some, didn't he? And yet, J.J. McCarthy, in just his 11 minutes, had the highest average yards per, I think, per target, per reception of any quarterback in the NFL yesterday. Let me give you a number.

41:57 Giants had eight plays on offense yesterday worth 20 or more yards. McCarthy was responsible for six of them with his arm or his feet. Yeah, so I just brought that up to give him credit.

42:10 Like, even if they were playing prevent defense... He was still throwing the deep ball and completing these deep passes down the field, which the whole point of preventive defense is to stop that. And he was still doing it. He made some spectacular throws. I know, obviously, we've been talking about his mobility and his dual threat ability, which 100%, that is a big part of his skill set. But he made a couple of throws, deep throws, you know, 20-plus yards down the field that were just so downright impressive.

42:39 Yeah.

42:39 Like, I came away. Obviously, he was the 10th overall pick only a couple of years ago. The kid has a lot of talent. And he's only, what, 22 years old?

42:47 Now, to be fair, he also threw one interception.

42:50 For sure. One that was dropped.

42:54 100%.

42:54 Off a trap. It was not a perfect.

42:56 And one that I have no idea how Charlie Jones made the catch on.

42:59 Yeah. Look, I'm not. To be fair. Yeah, 100%. I'm not sitting up here trying to say that it was a perfect, unbelievable 11 minutes of– a play from JJ McCarthy. He clearly made some mistakes as well. But there were real sparks. There were real sparks for sure. A hundred percent. I just wanted to point, because a big thing about JJ is, you know, since he got acquired here was just talking about his mobility. And again, that is a big part of it. Oh, he could throw. But he made some really impressive throws yesterday.

43:28 He's got, he's got a very, very strong arm. All right, real quick, John Soto podcast. Is there anything going up today or tomorrow that you know of?

43:35 Not that I know of. Not that you know of. Okay. Well, anyway. There will be.

43:38 There will be. The Giants Huddle, it's on all your podcast platforms. Giants interviews, NFL interviews, media interviews, they're all there. Check it out when you get a chance. Giants TV is the official connected TV streaming app. It's free, has original Giants content on it. Also, be sure to secure your 2026 season tickets and be there for every Giants home game. There are still plenty to go. You can also get single game tickets. Go to Giants.com slash tickets to learn more. Also, the Giants Foundation will host a 5K racing kids run presented by Quest on Sunday, November 8th at 9 a.m. at MetLife Stadium. Net proceeds benefit the Giants Foundation. You get a commemorative t-shirt. You meet Giants legends. A DJ is going to be there afterwards

44:22 as well. Register now at Giants.com slash 5K. The Giants Foundation is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. All right, back to the phones, Johnny Mac. And let's see, we're going to go to line three. James in Pennsylvania, hello.

44:40 Yeah, I was calling about, I'll just go in order.

44:44 One, the weather.

44:45 Two, QB play.

44:47 Three, run game.

44:48 Four, special teams. Number one, the weather. It was lovely out.

44:53 It was.

44:54 Jameis had no excuse. The last two games, oh, my goodness. So, one point, weather.

45:00 The weather.

45:01 What was the issue?

45:02 What was the issue? Why we can't run?

45:05 It was nice out. Number two, QB play.

45:08 McCarthy might need some time. No, he doesn't need to start. So, are we going to do the same thing? like he did this week, sprinkle him in. Next week against Houston, since he's not starting.

45:19 Number four, number.

45:21 Three, run game.

45:22 Ricard, oh my goodness.

45:24 Number four, special team.

45:26 Duh. I'm done.

45:29 Thank you, James. What do they call that, the Cliff Notes version of his game review?

45:38 Three and four were....

45:42 Hey, James, you brought a smile to our faces and a chuckle to our hearts.

45:47 We appreciate that very much.

45:49 Ben in Florham Park, you're next on the program. Hello.

45:51 Hi, guys.

45:54 The season is not boring.

45:56 Oh, that's for sure. I concur with what.

45:58 You guys are saying that. You've got to go with Jameis. This is a must-win game against an elite defense. I don't want to say what J.J. did was a mirage, but it was against a bank of secondary that was playing back. But I do think that you've got to give Jameis one more chance. I think it's on Matt Nagy to figure out how to run an offense that James can be effective. And I think that's the biggest problem when I see is James just like, you think very cautious and I don't know, I wouldn't say he's processing.

46:34 Like he is.

46:34 He's just making sure.

46:36 He doesn't make a mistake. I think maybe that's how they're coaching him. I think you have to give Jameis one more start. I think it's unfair to put J.J. McCarthy out there in a situation where you have a... Texans generate a lot of pressure without blitzing. You've got Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter who are elite. There's a lot of good coverage-scale players on that defense. It's going to be harder to pick them apart. I'd like to see Jameis start If you want to put in JJ a little bit to mix it up. But I think if we lose this game with Jameis at the helm, I think we are fine to say, Jameis, thank you.

47:15 We're going to go with JJ for the rest of the year after the bye. And unless JJ gets hurt, you're not going to play anymore. And worst case scenario, you know, we get a lot of film on tape for JJ. And if you want to flip them, if you want to keep Jameis next year and flip JJ for like a fourth or third on draft pick.

47:36 That's a win.

47:37 But I think that's the way, I agree with what you guys are saying. It would be a disservice to put JJ in without a full playbook against like a top five defense.

47:46 Thank you, Ben.

47:47 Appreciate the phone call. Thanks, Ben.

47:48 The Giants' first drive yesterday went 12 plays in a season-high 93 yards for a touchdown. On that drive, Jameis Winston completed four or five passes, and the only pass that was not completed was was arguably, depending upon how much you want to grade it, was a drop by Darnell Mooney. So did Jameis Winston look uncomfortable, out of sync, and bad on a 12-play, 93-yard drive that gave them a 7-0 lead where, in your words, they were in complete control.

48:20 Early in the game?

48:22 You know, I think it's easy, right, to look at the result of the game and to look at some of the stuff that happened later and just erase all the good stuff because you're disappointed in how it ended.

48:35 Right?

48:35 Yeah. I mean, that first drive was really good. It was. Really good.

48:41 So, again, we know what Jameis Winston is. You've got to get good and bad.

48:47 It's a mixture.

48:49 It's not going to change.

48:50 It's been 12 years.

48:51 It's not going to change. I understand that. The question becomes, again, not even so much what you think he's going.

49:00 To do or not do.

49:01 If you're a McCarthy proponent, you have to consider him. And where is he on this learning curve? That's the bigger question for any pro-McCarthy fan out there. And I'm not anti-McCarthy. Let me make that clear. I'm not. I don't know if that's clear, nor are you. We're not saying that he doesn't deserve an opportunity.

49:21 We're not saying that. Yeah, as we have both said many times, we do not know how much of the playbook he has.

49:28 We don't.

49:28 He could be much further along than people might think. It's tough because learning an NFL playbook is no easy task. And to especially pick that up, Mid-season, obviously, it's not the easiest thing to do. But, like, I don't even remember what number you threw out. It's just a complete hypothetical number. But, like, he could be well beyond. 15, 20, 25, 30.

49:49 He could be well beyond that. Who knows? He could be not even at that level. We have no idea. We're not in the quarterback room.

49:56 No, we don't.

49:56 No, we don't.

49:57 And even, I believe it was, was it likely or maybe it was neighbors as well who even said after the game in the locker room yesterday, you know, We haven't exactly caught a whole lot of passes from JJ either.

50:11 Yeah, because Jameis is taking the reps at practice, obviously, because he's been the starter. So he went out there and did that throw into guys that he has not gotten much, many reps at all throwing to, which makes it even more impressive.

50:24 Coach Marvin in Delaware, you are next on the show. Hello.

50:27 How you doing, Paul?

50:29 What do you say, coach?

50:30 Hey, coach.

50:31 I wasn't going to call, but I had to call.

50:34 A good friend of mine from New England, Mongo, he texted me the same question that I'm hearing today, and he insists that the Giants make a change. Again, I always said that when I was coaching, and this is to fans and the parents involved, Whatever I do, I can't make everybody happy. Every decision I make is going to be someone that don't agree with the decisions I make.

51:08 So you make the decision what's best for the team, and it's only one person making those decisions, not all of us. Now, we can have an opinion, but then since something be done, We don't have a choice in that. We have none. Matt was right that he did complete some really good passes downfield against a prevent defense. He did show some stuff.

51:38 Paul was right.

51:39 He threw an interception and possibly a second one was thrown that didn't get intercepted. But my thing was the way I feel is when I'm out there, when you're out there, and the game is already lost and you have nothing to lose, it's easy to gun hole everything because it doesn't matter. You've lost the game. So go out there, swing it out there. Don't care if it's intercepted or not intercepted. Just swing it out there.

52:12 He went out there and he was swinging.

52:14 He looked better than I saw him when he was with the Vikings.

52:17 He did.

52:19 He was playing freely.

52:20 He had nothing to lose. If you play in the beginning of the game, you have a lot to lose if you play out of control. But if you're down what they were down and you get in the game and it's out of control, you just start throwing out of control. Nobody's going to say anything about that. How about what went on with you? They're going to talk about mostly the game. The team didn't play well as a team. And I don't, I, my, this, my, the way I answered it to Mongo was I, I didn't, I don't know if like you guys were saying, I don't know what he knows in the playbook. If you're in their practice and you watching it, then you would know to.

53:02 Make the decision.

53:04 Maybe the decision is, will be after the bye week, maybe. But Paul made a good point. The beginning of that game, was anybody saying take Winston out the game? That's the question you have to ask them.

53:20 Did you say that?

53:22 And the person has to be honest with themselves and say yes or no.

53:26 And if you say no, then it's easy to sit.

53:29 Back and second guess what a person said. should do or not do. And that's the way I.

53:36 Feel about it.

53:37 Again, coaches of any level, we lose because.

53:41 We can't satisfy anybody.

53:44 Everybody.

53:44 I'm sorry, not anybody. We can't satisfy everybody.

53:47 I know what you meant, Coach.

53:51 And that's why those positions are so incredibly pressure-packed, especially at this level, the highest that the game has to offer.

54:00 Right.

54:00 It is.

54:01 And at this level, it's incredible because of the money that they're getting.

54:06 No doubt.

54:06 At the at the lower.

54:08 Level is threatening because it's everybody one.

54:12 Day their kids to be the star.

54:15 And that's why you have these crazy incidents with parents, regardless if it's coaches or referees.

54:22 And you have all these things going on.

54:24 Because of all of these people have their opinion and their feelings shared. into the game itself, and we get lost in what, as far as my levels, you get lost of why you're really out there.

54:39 Coach, before we let you go, I want to ask you just the one question that we were contemplating. What would be the primary question you have to ask yourself if you put a smorgasbord of questions in front of you that you had to calculate an answer to make a quarterback decision? I mean, Am I am I not on the proper island here when I say if the quarterback, the young quarterback, J.J. McCarthy, in this case, does not have enough of the playbook, doesn't everything else become moot?

55:17 Yeah.

55:18 It depends on how much of it he has.

55:20 Of course, of course. If he's got 80%, that's different.

55:23 You know what happens, Paul?

55:24 That's a very, very good question. Everything has a second side to it. I mean, we always have how to solve a thing, how to solve something. There's always two sides to it. No matter what we're talking about, there's going to be two sides to it.

55:40 But the.

55:42 I believe in some cases.

55:44 It depends on how much. You don't have to have it all because when you have the game plan, I don't.

55:48 Have my whole playbook in the game plan. Of course you don't.

55:51 Of course you don't.

55:53 I tried to use the phrase before, does he have enough to function reasonably to give his team a chance to win? And whatever that percentage is, that's the magic number, right?

56:04 Right.

56:10 In this case, let's say we're not talking about these two people, but they're similar to each other.

56:15 Right, I'm talking about philosophically.

56:17 One of them is carrying my team in a way, gives me a good chance to win. He controls the game the way I want to control. The other one may have.

56:29 An issue with his technique.

56:33 And McCarthy's reason that he was let go is his technique. I mean, I was watching him, and he couldn't throw an out route. I mean, he had one of the best receivers in the league, and he was missing them crazy. So is it his technique, or what is it? Coming out of college, there were some issues about he didn't throw a good ball, a deep ball, because his ball was flat. That was the scouting report. That's not me talking.

57:02 So.

57:04 I think if we go back and look at last week, and I know I got to kind of like look at what I've seen, what I saw of him in that Washington game, that kind of like I like what I saw.

57:21 Mm-hmm.

57:22 I mean, he makes those mistakes. Can I control those mistakes? Sometimes the team make a mistake like the penalties.

57:29 It's killing me.

57:30 I don't know why we're these false starts on offense when you're supposed to know the. And sometimes that hurts Winston. I think Winston sometimes he's such a gunslinger. He feels like I.

57:45 Got to make a play.

57:46 And that's what it looks like. I got to make a play.

57:48 I'm just going to gun it in there because we got to get something to stop the bleeding. And maybe I can talk him out of it. If I'm talking to a kid and that's acting that way, maybe I can talk him out of, hey, this is the play. I want you to just, you know, don't throw in those coverages that is like two or three guys all over.

58:10 So I'll have to try to.

58:12 Coach him through situational football, and that's how I would have to handle it.

58:18 You know, Coach, though, I've got to kind of let you go because we've only got a couple minutes here to wrap up. But, Coach, it comes down to this. This is a multi-pronged issue, right?

58:30 There's really no one question.

58:31 I think that, again, you've got to figure out how much of the playbook that the option quarterback, if you will— has, but it's a multi-pronged question. This is not something you just say, I got the answer to that one question and now I'm going.

58:46 To make a decision.

58:47 You have to ask yourself a literal smorgasbord of questions and.

58:53 All of them are intertwined.

58:54 It's like that spider web I talk about all the time. It truly is a spider web. It's not an easy one factor and I know what I have to do. That's not the way it works.

59:05 No, and you're right, and I know we got to go.

59:08 And, and, and.

59:09 Winston, I loved some, some things I do like.

59:12 About him, some things I don't, but you have to.

59:14 Have a running game with him. And they're not having a running game.

59:18 And it's a lot, like you said.

59:20 That spider web, it's a lot incorporated in this thing. A lot of us are not looking at it. And they are looking at it.

59:27 That's why you've got to trust the coach to make the decision.

59:30 Coach Marvin, I appreciate you.

59:32 I'm trusting him that he makes the decision. Before we go, I would have started Scadaboo in my team.

59:40 But I'm behind him. He's looking at.

59:42 The– He's looking at putting his culture into this team, and that's why he's doing what he's doing. But I probably would have said, you know, in my case, I would have said scatterball.

59:54 I need his energy, and he brings energy to the team.

59:57 You sit him.

59:57 How does the team react to that? But this is for the long haul. He's trying to teach them. So y'all take care, guys.

1:00:04 Thanks, Coach. Thank you, Coach. Appreciate it.

1:00:06 201-939-4513.

1:00:06 We're going to wrap up in a moment.

1:00:10 I do want to go to this one.

1:00:11 Comment that we did get posted on YouTube before we sign off.

1:00:17 JCNY718.

1:00:20 Yo, can we talk about Arvell Reese tossing a lineman into a running back? Reese used him like a bowling ball. Are you familiar with this play?

1:00:26 Oh, yeah.

1:00:27 Wow.

1:00:29 I mean... Please, expand. It's not really surprising given what we've seen from Arva Reese in the first month plus of his NFL career. But he literally– an offensive lineman was attempting to block him. It was a play like out on the edge. And Arva Reese ran through the lineman, sent the lineman flying backwards, who then tripped up– who was it? The running back? Yes. Tripped up the running back on the play. And it's just an amazing play by Arva. But again– Nothing surprising because, I mean, he has just been downright impressive, I would say since week three.

1:01:08 And he even noted that the Rams game, he did not play up to the standard that he expects out of himself. But since then, he has looked like everything that he was built to be when the Giants got him with the fifth overall.

1:01:18 He basically blew up the play by taking out two players at once.

1:01:22 Yeah. I mean, that's the easiest way to describe it. He made the Saints tackle their own player, essentially. Wow.

1:01:30 All right, folks, that'll do it for today's edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York football Giants. Of course, we have come to you from the Giants podcast studio presented by Hackensack Meridian Health. Keep getting better. And this show is part of the Giants platforms everywhere, the Giants YouTube channel and at Giants.com slash podcasts. From outside tech, I'm Paul Dettino. We'll be back with another edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live tomorrow at 12 p.m. Eastern time. So long, everybody.