Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/20 I Saints Takeaways and Roster News

0:04 It's time for a big blue kickoff live.

0:06 Nobody can ever tell you that you.

0:08 Couldn't do it because you didn't. On Giants.com. You know what I saw?

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0:23 Let's go out there like a bunch of crazy dogs now. Hello, everybody. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to Big Blue Kickoff Live, presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York football Giants. I am John Schmelke, joined as always by Mark Malousis, here in the Giants podcast studio, presented by Hackensack Meridian Health.

0:39 Keep getting better. Happy Banner Day, Mark Malousis. Yes, tonight, Schmelke will be there. Your brother's going to be there. Friends. I mean, it's going to be, you know, later on. I got my OG Ananobi tip-in shirt on.

0:52 In the mic.

0:52 Oh, look at you. Look at you. Over the Giants hoodie. I mean, that is great.

0:57 Yes, the banner will be unfurled tonight at Madison Square Garden as LeBron and the Sixers are in town. Can't wait. Seven o'clock.

1:05 Seven o'clock. I've been in touch with people. So apparently the ceremony is being at 630. 630. Gates open at 530. So that's what's going on tonight. What time will you be there? I will be there at 530. Right as the gates open. Absolutely.

1:17 Okay, nice.

1:18 That's it, man. I'm going to walk around beforehand. Maybe I'll see if there's any new gear in the shop. That way you get to your seat nice and early, you get some food, and then you sit down and you just relax. Exactly right.

1:30 And this is something that MSG is really good at, like these kind of events. And now it hasn't happened for the Knicks in 53 years, but when you think about like in terms of making the moment grandiose, you know, I'm sure it's going to be fantastic.

1:47 Apparently there's a Ben Stiller video of some kind where he's going to VO like the video before they do the ceremony of some kind. No, I'm not super excited about that. It's one thing I saw that that was happening.

2:01 No.

2:01 Well, and I think I'm sure that'll be some sort of, you know, former players, all the guys that were, you know, that, came close but failed. Like, you think about that 94 team. You know, that 99 team got boat raced by the Spurs in the finals and that San Antonio team with the Twin Towers. They were just too banged up. And they were too banged up. And that San Antonio team was just, you know, too good with Duncan and Robinson. But, Um, but tonight enjoy it for every Nick fan, you, myself, you know, these, this is what you, you know, last spring was awesome. And that's really the, the real moment.

2:36 But tonight is to the Victor, go all the spoils. And tonight's one of those nights.

2:40 So this is a last night. I made a mistake. What'd you do? Well, I finished the end of the Monday night game, which was a good game. Good game. When the Valiant come back. They did. Came back a little bit short, a little reminiscent of actually what the Giants did last week in some ways.

2:53 Very much so.

2:54 And what the Giants did to the Commanders two weeks ago, actually. Down 14, they made the run, but they didn't quite come all the way back. And I'm looking at my phone a little bit, and somebody just posted the last five minutes of game four last year of Nick Spurs.

3:06 Oh, wow.

3:07 So I'm like, I got to watch this.

3:08 Yeah.

3:08 So I'm watching that. Then I finish that. I'm like, well, you know, I'm going tomorrow. should probably watch the end of game five again, right? What time were you up till? Like 1.30. 1.30 in the morning. That's it. But like I said, it did something not smart. So I sat there. And then, of course, while I finished the game, I got to watch the trophy presentation.

3:29 Yeah, well, you are one of the biggest Knicks fans that I know.

3:33 I cried again. It was great.

3:35 I mean, you analyze, you break it down. I'm sure you did because this is what it's all about.

3:41 And I give you credit. I don't know.

3:43 Even if it came across my social media, I don't think I'd go back and watch Game 5 again or you lived it once.

3:51 Still have it on the DVR. Listen.

3:54 You're a season ticket holder. You'll be at the Garden tonight.

3:57 I'm pumped.

3:57 You were there throughout the course of the finals last year and throughout the playoff runs. You've been through the ups and the downs, all of it. Mostly downs.

4:04 We all have Knick fans.

4:06 And tonight's one of those nights where you take in and you just enjoy it because every Knick fan out there in the Tri-State area deserves it.

4:16 All right, let's get to it. We're doing some Giants news today. According to reports that are out there, I think Ian Rappaport had it first, if I'm not mistaken. again, Giants have not confirmed this, so just according to reports, the Giants have decided to let go of Najee Harris, Moose. And I think this is probably a good way to transition to one of the things I want to talk about today. And we will get to the quarterback stuff.

4:34 We will get to that, I promise you. But we have this news first, so I want to hit this before we get to the quarterback stuff. The Giants' running game has not been good enough. And that's just the bottom line. At one point in the game, it might have been at the half, Giants had eight carries for nine yards from their running backs. Their two longest runs in the game came from J.J. McCarthy and Darnold Mooney.

4:54 I think at the end of the game, their running backs was 14 carries for 34 yards. With the way this Giants team is set up, Moose, and the way John Harbaugh would like to play if he could, you need to have a more... consistent, traditional run game. And the last couple weeks, they just haven't been able to consistently get the yards they need. And I'm not even going to talk about the explosives. We talked about that last week. Explosives would be nice, but we've got to get back to getting three or four yards a carry here.

5:24 I mean, we've been sitting at two yards a pop here for a couple weeks now. It's a problem.

5:28 Well, yeah, it's a concern. And a couple things kind of hit me when you're thinking about it. Number one is, and John, we talked about it last week, a little bit you and I on Tuesday, is that this should have been a game on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints, against that rush defense.

5:42 Should have been a get-right game.

5:43 Should have been a get-right game. And you'd be able to run the football. Regardless of who's getting the touches, everyone's kind of very on a similar line in terms of a talent level in that running back room. You should be able to run the football. All right, so you weren't able to run it. So that's concerning. Number two is, in a game at one point in time that you led 10-0. Number two is.

6:07 I guess I go back to it is if you're not able to traditionally run it and you were looking at it, how significant were you looking at from a naggy perspective of Dart using his legs to emphasize the run game? You know, if everyone was healthy, and we know that Jackson Dart is not, but how big of a component in that ground game was Jackson Dart and his running ability going to be at the beginning of the season? How big of a hit was that to the game plan for this Giants offensive coaching staff after Dart suffered the season-ending injury. And then number three hits me is that it's not like you don't have, when you're looking at this offense, John, you've got Malik Neighbors, who's gone three straight games over 100 yards receiving. You've

6:53 got Isaiah Likely, who has been an unbelievable threat at the tight end position. You have weapons on the outside that opposing defensive coordinators have got to go out there and respect. So it should be able to open some things up with your ability to go out there and run it. We've talked about this offensive line as well, and I understand that you had Marcus Bowe at right tackle, no Jermaine Illuminor. But, yeah, it's concerning when you look at it because if you can't run it consistently and you will get to the defense and you're struggling to stop the run, It's hard to find ways to win football games in the National Football League. It really is.

7:32 And that's just not a knock on the– that's not just looking at this Giants team. That's across the National Football League. Any head coach would talk about that. So we're talking about the Giants' rush attack. Yeah, it's got to get going, and it's got to be better than what it is. You mentioned it. 14 for 34 from that running back's room, and now Najee Harris is no longer a Giant.

7:51 All right, so we had Brandon Jacobs on our pregame show on Sunday, and I thought he was a really good spot. And me and Tiki talked to him. We basically did the whole interview on the run game, right? Brandon Jacobs on, talk run of the football. And his big point was that he feels like you need to give the running backs a chance to get into a rhythm, right?

8:08 To get a bunch of carries in a row. And the Giants haven't done that so far this year. And I understand why. And the point that John Harbaugh has pointed out is that, well, no one has seized the bull by the bull horns here and earned the right to get all those carries in the row, right? And that's what we need to see now. And I wonder here if the decision, again, according to reports that Giants have let go of Najee Harris, by reducing the size of the running back room, the carries are spread out a little bit less and you can concentrate them a little bit more. Now, do I think all three backs are probably still going to get carries this week? Yes, I do. I think that's going to be the case.

8:44 But maybe you can find a way here to try to get somebody into rhythm, whomever it might be. I thought Tyrone Tracy had some good moments in the game last week. Obviously, Cam Scadaboo didn't have a chance to really touch the ball. But I'm curious to see how they go about it this week with now the three-man running back room in terms of trying to figure out a rhythm. Because I do think it's a combination, Moose.

9:04 This is not just the offensive line not opening holes. It's not just the running backs not hitting the right hole. I think it's just everything together. And by the way, throwing the tight ends and wide receivers, blocking on the second and third level too. It's all that together where they just haven't been able to put it together where you're consistently gaining those three or four yards you want.

9:21 And then you're definitely not getting any explosives. They didn't have an explosive run, I think, in three weeks.

9:26 No, they have not. I guess, John, what do you think has changed?

9:29 I think, by the way, you had one from Scadamore in overtime at the Commanders game. I forgot about that one.

9:33 Oh, that's true.

9:34 That's true.

9:34 You did have one where he almost took it to house. But what do you think has changed from a year ago? I understand it's a new coaching staff, right? But running the football, the Giants had the ability to run it a year ago.

9:46 And now.

9:48 You've got, I mean, the three running backs that are left in the room, reportedly, you know, with Najee Harris being let go, we're all here a year ago. When you look at Tyrone Tracy, Cam Scadaboo, and you're looking at Motor. Devin Singletary, and you want to look at the one guy that, you know, has been, I think it's three games he was not active for when you're looking at Devin Singletary, right? Who got some burn on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints. Last year, the Giants were able to run it. I wouldn't tell you that they were the best rush offense in the National Football League, but it wasn't what we're seeing this year. I guess my question is, if you look back on it, it's more of a what has significantly changed because the personnel

10:28 is there. And I understand you've got to take care of the football, you've got to hold on to the football, but all three of those guys, and we saw some explosive ability a year ago from Tyrone Tracy, who was a converted wide receiver in college to running back.

10:39 No, run game was pretty good last year, especially in the second half of the year moves. So I think... Maybe in the new offensive system, just trying to figure out the rhythm and the patterns of how they're going to do this. You know, Tiki's point that he's made is that, you know, they don't really specialize in one thing in the run game. They use a lot of different run schemes, inside zone, outside zone, power, you know, duo.

11:00 And they kind of do a huge mix of those things. As you go along in these seasons, teams usually figure out, all right, this is what we're best at, and we're going to specialize in this. So I think probably that combined with the fact that you haven't had the one bell cow running back, it's hard to figure out what you're specializing in when you don't know who your bell cow running back is and what he's best at, right?

11:19 Yeah, that's true.

11:20 So I think you're trying to put those two together. I think your original point, too, how much did the presence of Dart last year help the run game? That's a good point. And he's not there in terms of a runner.

11:28 Right.

11:28 So I think those are the two things that I would kind of think about, but... I don't think they're far away. You know, we're not seeing a ton of runs for losses.

11:38 No.

11:39 The one bad one where I think it was Runyon got pushed back into the backfield and Harris ran into Runyon and then he lost four or five yards. That was inside the 10, I think, on that one drive the Giants had in the first half. That was the only really big run for a loss. Maybe the one... You had the Tracy outside run. You had the run.

11:55 You had the J.J. McCarthy zone read where they lost a couple yards. But for the most part, they haven't lost a ton of yards in the run game. They're just not gaining enough. So those are the things that I'm, I guess, looking at that. And you do see teams improve a lot of times with the run game as the season goes along, as they figure out what their backs are good at in the scheme, what their offensive line is good at in the scheme. They just haven't gotten there yet. And hopefully with some time they'll be able to.

12:18 And Tiki's also pointed out the lack of patience. He was specifically talking about Scataboo. I think on a couple of post games ago, John, that, uh, that I heard with, uh, you know, after, I think it was after the commander game, uh, where he wanted to see, you know, you gotta wait for the, the play to develop. Um, and you gotta wait for the offensive line, uh, to, to establish their blocks before going out and going out and running into the hole or where you perceive that hole is going to be. So, yeah, it's a myriad. Listen, it's going to be something the Johns aren't going to quit on it.

12:51 You know, it's going to be something that they're going to continue. They haven't figured it out up until this point in time. They still, you know, even despite the loss against New Orleans on Sunday, They're still a 3-2-1 team in what is a wide-open NFC East, and now they go on the road to take on a Houston Texans team that has showed improvement defensively since D'Amico Ryans took over as the play caller a couple games ago, and they've won two straight games. But the Giants, regardless– and I know we're going to get to the quarterback situation– regardless of who is that quarterback, you've got to be able to run the ball. It's not survivable to be able to, as an offense– to not be able to establish the run. And it's something, John, that you've talked about.

13:33 You were down in West Virginia with this team. We talked about throughout the course of training camp, everyone that's been around this team is that the Giants want to play a little bully ball. They want to be able to run it. They want to use their offensive line. They drafted CeCe Maiano at 10th overall, coming out of Miami, moved him inside to play guard because you want to be able to establish the run. So it's something they have not figured out as of yet. But I imagine that they're obviously it's going to be more than just the old college try. They're going to continue to figure out a way, whether that be the blocking scheme or who gets the majority of the touches to try and get this ground game going.

14:04 They did try something different, too, on Tuesday, on Tuesday, on Sunday, two days ago, where they went to lighter personnel. They played 11 personnel more in that game than they had in any other game this year, except for the Rams game. And again, the Rams, again, they were on comeback mode, being down three scores. So you kind of throw that one out because that's an outlier. You saw less 22 personnel, less 21 personnel than we've seen. So they went to lighter personnel groupings. I think maybe they thought spreading the field out a little bit instead of having everything so condensed might open up some space in the run game. That didn't end up working. So now do we see this week, do they go back To

14:37 more Patrick Ricard.

14:38 Right.

14:39 Now, there was no Theo Johnson last week, too. And without him as one of your better blocking tight ends, does that limit what you can do with some of the 22 personnel and stuff like that, too? I don't know the answer to that question, but maybe that was part of the reasoning. Maybe it was just a matchup with the Saints that they like spreading out.

14:53 I don't know this answer, but you're great with this stuff. When they were going 11 personnel, were they running more outside or running more inside?

15:02 I don't have that. I'm not sure. That's a good question. I don't think they generally ran outside much of the game at all, to be honest. I think most of their runs were between the tackles. Yeah, most of it was... Tracy had one that went outside, but I think that was kind of it.

15:13 But you get the idea of spreading a team out, especially if you're looking at a condensed nature in the box, to be able to give your backs a little bit more vision, maybe open things up, or maybe you can.

15:21 Well, you have lighter boxes, right? Yeah, no doubt.

15:23 100%.

15:23 So you get that, but.

15:26 they're trying different things. I mean, and that's it, to figure out a way to get the ground game going. But now you look at it and go on the reports that Najee Harris is no longer here. The Giants have got a two-prong problem when you're looking at that running back room. Number one, you got to run it.

15:43 You got to be able to establish the run and run it when the opponent knows you want to run it and be able, it's going to make it easier for whoever is that quarterback to be able to throw the football. Number two is, The other aspect of it is, which was an issue Sunday, not necessarily in the running back room, but you also got to take care of the football. And that's another problem as well, where you look at this giant team that that game on Sunday, it's hard to blame one fumble, but John, in that stadium on Sunday, you could sense the shift.

16:15 I'll turn the whole game.

16:17 After the Charlie Jones fumble at the end of the first half, where the Saints were able to tie the game up at 10, going for it on fourth and goal, converting there, tie the game up. All of a sudden, it was a completely different feel going into half number two.

16:31 Yeah, no question about it. I mean, Moose, it's just that... And it wasn't just that one fumble. And that did turn the momentum, I totally agree with you. But the bigger problem here, Moose, was... They had three other turnovers in addition to that.

16:46 Yes, I know.

16:47 You can't have four giveaways in a game. And I was trying to look it up. I can't sign up for whatever reason to the stats. But I believe now, in the last three weeks, they've had nine giveaways. Yeah, you can't do that. They had four this week, three last week, and two the previous week.

16:59 Yeah.

17:00 You can't win football games doing that. You just can't. No, you can't.

17:03 That is, I don't care who you are or how talented you are. You've got to be able to take care of the football.

17:09 Yeah.

17:12 That's a problem that continues to be there for this giant team that needs to be cleaned up. Now, you don't want your players going onto the field afraid of making a mistake because if that's the case, then more mistakes are going to happen.

17:26 Correct.

17:26 So you have to understand that there are going to be times where You know, a quarterback's going to give an opportunity for a receiver to make a play on the football. And you see it every week in the National Football League. An open in the NFL is different than being open in college football. They're two completely different things when you watch the game film. So not every throw is going to be– so you're going to see some throws that maybe necessarily don't go your way or end up in an interception. But you don't want to lose the aggressiveness, but you have to understand that. You've got to take care of the football. But as Coach Harbaugh pointed out a couple weeks ago, John, that this is more when you're handling the ball, this is more

18:05 of a punch-out league than ever before. You saw it last night with McCaffrey getting the ball punched out. You see it week in, week out. Guys are taking and basically wheelhousing, trying to knock that ball out. I think Jim Nance might have fractured his ankle as J.J. Watt was doing that on CBS the other day.

18:21 You mean hand?

18:22 His hand.

18:23 If you guys should fracture his ankle instead of punch out a ball, that'd be pretty impressive.

18:27 Maybe fracture his wrist.

18:28 Did you see that?

18:28 That went viral on social media.

18:30 Johnny Mack, back, by the way, off the injury report with the leg, by the way.

18:33 I know.

18:34 I know.

18:34 Full go.

18:35 No more trips from Massachusetts.

18:37 I know. Full go.

18:38 It was day-to-day, and then he was back in playing hurt last Wednesday with O'Hara.

18:41 He's full go. He's full go.

18:42 It was amazing.

18:43 Good to see.

18:44 Got to take care of the football, no doubt.

18:45 All right. Let's throw the defense aside because I feel like I want to get to the calls here. We should talk about the quarterback situation. And I've kind of vacillated on this over the last couple of days because I think my logical brain... And by the way, I think this is a 50-50 call and I completely understand whatever direction John Harbaugh wants to go here. And I would not have said this a couple weeks ago. Whatever decision he makes, I think there's good arguments for it.

19:09 And this is kind of how I'm balancing it here, Moose. After this week... in which you're playing an improving defense that was the best defense in the league last year in the Texans, you have a bye week, which gives you another two weeks to get ready for the next game.

19:21 Yeah.

19:21 Okay.

19:24 Does it feel fair to have this be McCarthy's opening opportunity? He even said in the postgame on Sunday that, yeah, you know, we kind of ran all the plays I knew. You know what I mean? So, like, is he ready for the whole playbook yet? Those are the things we don't have answers to. But I think when you go back and you look back at the game on Sunday, and I think this is probably the worst case of it in terms of volume that we've seen over the course of the year. When Jameis was in there, there were just too many times when receivers were open and he could not get them the ball.

19:57 And....

19:58 It's frustrating when you're OC, and I think Matt Nagy has done a really good job of this this year. He's gotten guys open in these games. It's not like you're walking around looking around and no one's open. Now, there are some players where they got manned up and guys weren't getting open. That happens. But for the most part, guys are getting separation. They're getting open. And there were too many situations in that game on Sunday where guys were getting open and the ball wasn't getting to them in the right spot. So if Coach Harbaugh watches that and says, I think we got to make a change, I totally understand it. If he looks at it and says, oh, I want to give... If I give Jameis one more game and it doesn't go well, then McCarthy has three

20:31 more weeks to get ready for the next game. And then he's probably going to have most of the playbook at his disposal. So I understand both ways you can go here. I understand the arguments. And I'm sure we'll know by the end of today or tomorrow what the Giants are going to do. I really think it's a tough call.

20:45 Well, I'm going to– for every Giant fan that's watching us here on this Tuesday, John, I'd say– Ask yourself, you know, and I think this is kind of, you know, kind of the, you know, the what you need to do is is you go through and say, who gives us the best chance to win? If you're going on the idea that that we're there, we're here to win games.

21:08 John Harbaugh is here to win games. Who gives us the best opportunity to win to win this game upcoming game against the Houston Texans on Sunday? And so then you go from there. Then you say, well— Because, by.

21:19 The way, you're in first place. Winning games is your only priority right now.

21:22 No doubt.

21:22 Correct.

21:23 In a wide-open NFC.

21:24 Yes.

21:24 So you say, well, who gives us the best opportunity to win? And then you look at, OK, Sunday, was that what J.J. was able to do? And it was great and gave this team an opportunity. And they were one play away from tying that game up and potentially going for two and pulling off what would be a MetLife miracle to come back from 24 points down. And, you know, it would have been unbelievable. But you say, well, New Orleans playing prevent defense. Kellen Moore is pulling starters off of the field with eight minutes to go.

21:54 They dropped two interceptions.

21:56 They dropped two picks. Like, you know, you say, well, is that necessarily then? Okay, what's real, what's not real when you're looking at that situation?

22:04 Which is really hard to figure out, by the way. It's really hard.

22:07 Right.

22:07 And, you know, fourth quarter pass rush. There was none until New Orleans started dialing some up late when they were like, oh, my, we might actually lose this game.

22:15 And then they sacked him.

22:16 And then they sacked him, right? And so you look and say, well, what is repeatable? Then you get to the question of, well, where is he in terms of having the full feel for this offense? And then are we putting him in a position to be successful or are we putting him in a position to fail? And are we going to be better off as a team if we give him more time to get himself ready and look at Jameis and say, Listen, he's a remarkably streaky quarterback. We know he can play, but we know he's good enough to play in this league. We saw the second half in the overtime against Washington, but Sunday against New Orleans, he was ice cold, right? And maybe he has a bounce-back performance against the Houston Texans. I'm

22:57 with you, John. I could see it going either way. I could see where the news comes out and it's J.J. McCarthy starting at quarterback for the Giants Sunday against the Houston Texans, and I could understand if. If John Harbaugh and company make the decision that it's going to be Jameis Winston once again. You can go a number of different ways, but that's kind of like the thought process that you go through when you look at it because everyone was excited by what they saw from McCarthy on Sunday, and you're not wrong. There were throws.

23:26 I think about one, I think it was Isaiah Likely or Neighbors cutting on a crossing route over the middle that Jameis missed by like four or five yards, and those are throws that you expect him to make.

23:36 Yeah, I'm with you, Moose. And I think the problem we're going to run into with this, with us in the building, media covering the team outside the building, and for fans that are, we have three people on hold and we're going to get to your calls in just a second here. This will be the last thing I say before we do that. We don't know the answer to the most important question that you just posed. Is J.J.

23:57 McCarthy ready to run this offense?

23:59 Yeah.

24:00 Like, does he have it? mentally in his head well enough to run enough of the playbook to make this offense workable against a team like the Texans. Because look, you might say, all right, when he's fully integrated here, we think he gives us the best chance to win. But does he do that for you this week? Is he ready now?

24:23 Or.

24:24 Does waiting two weeks help him more to be ready for the next game? Those are the questions that we don't know the answer to. Frankly, JJ probably doesn't know that because he doesn't know how much he doesn't know a lot of times when you're a young guy learning this stuff. Yeah, no doubt. Matt Nagy knows that. Greg Roman knows that. Brian Callahan knows that. And, of course, John Harbaugh knows that. And those are the guys that are going to have to sit down, have that conversation, and decide if they think– he's ready to go in this system to run a full game worth of plays against one of the most impactful defenses in football.

24:59 Yeah, and then you hit upon it at the end. You're going up against a team that all of a sudden is starting to believe once again.

25:05 That looked like a playoff game in Europe on Sunday morning. It was a great game.

25:09 Great game. I mean, unbelievable game.

25:11 High-level play on both sides.

25:12 Both sides. And Jacksonville's really good, and Houston's really good. And you could, you know, and I understand it's only mid-October, John, but You know, those teams continue to improve. You could see either of those two teams in the AFC championship game. That's how good both of those teams played. And you can't have a, you know, it's got to look a certain way for the Giants Sunday against Houston where you can't play from behind. Like you can't, you know, you can't fall behind by two scores because that means that they're cutting Anderson and Daniil Hunter loose.

25:42 That's death.

25:43 And that is, that's going to be a problem. And that's a problem not just against the Giants. That's a problem against really any team that the Houston Texans go up against because Will Anderson's as good as it gets as an edge rusher in the National Football League, and he is absolutely relentless.

25:58 And we know Andrew Thomas is fighting an injury. We know Jermaine Illumina missed last week.

26:01 Yeah, so that's a problem.

26:04 So it's going to be— Goes back to running the ball well, too, by the way.

26:06 Yeah, no doubt.

26:07 You don't want to pass it 50 times against those pass rushers.

26:09 No, and you want to make sure that, you know, how aggressive can you be defensively if you're Denard Wilson because then you're looking at the big playability. Stroud's playing great this year.

26:19 Great.

26:20 Nico Collins, big plays down the field. They added Marvin Harrison Jr.

26:23 How about Jay Leno at the 100 yards last week, too?

26:26 He had a good one. I mean, Tank Dell is going to be back for the Houston Texans this week.

26:30 Yeah.

26:31 The one thing about Houston is they're not a good rush offense.

26:34 Then again, neither was the Saints.

26:36 No, neither was the Saints. That is fair, too. That is fair, too. But for the Giants here, you've got to find a way to put yourself and give yourself an opportunity to win the game on Sunday. And this quarterback decision, obviously, is going to be a fascinating one by John Harbaugh and company.

26:53 Yeah, or maybe Harbaugh pulls the Ben Johnson. And maybe we see both guys on the field in the first play of the game next Sunday.

27:01 Oh, maybe.

27:03 Maybe he does.

27:04 I would be, I mean, Ben's different out there in Chicago, let's be honest.

27:10 I don't know. I was over making a joke about Ben Johnson and thinking it was a serious thing.

27:13 No, no, no.

27:14 I know you are.

27:14 I know you are. But, you know, yeah, maybe he does. Listen, I think it's going to be interesting. I think you have to look at it and say what's real from what you saw in the fourth quarter. And where is J.J. McCarthy, as you pointed out, John, where is he in terms of fully have an understanding of the playbook? How much of the playbook can we run? Can we run it all?

27:36 Can we run 70 percent? Can we run 80 percent of it? Where are we at? Is that going to give us when, you know, is it best served to give them extra time to get ready and still have Jameis be the starter on Sunday against the Houston Texans? Those are the debates and the conversations that are being had.

27:51 So ironically, Nance is on McAfee right now. Oh, he is? And there's nothing on the hand. Oh, there's nothing. I think he avoided the fracture, Moose.

28:00 Oh, he avoided the fracture.

28:01 It looked like, and look at him. We don't see his ankle, though. No, we don't. No, I said ankle.

28:08 Give me a.

28:09 I messed up there. Funny. But it was.

28:11 Dude, like, you have to think about... It's funny, like, that was a fully inflated NFL football as well that J.J. Watt was holding.

28:20 Oh, J.J.

28:20 Watt, I dared him to, like, hit it hard. And those are, like, hard as rocks. Although they are. They're hard as rocks.

28:25 That's correct.

28:25 They are, like.

28:26 You punch it.

28:27 No, yeah, it's like punching wood.

28:28 There's no give to it.

28:29 Correct.

28:30 There is no give to it whatsoever.

28:32 And, you know, he, like, felt challenged. He's like, I have this... 300 pound, you know, cinder block of a man here challenging me to try to get the ball out of his hands. I'm really going to try.

28:42 Yes.

28:43 And he's like, oh, I regret that immediately.

28:45 I know.

28:46 And then he had to play like the father thing. Like when you get hit by one of your kids, you're like, oh no, I'm all right. Yeah, correct.

28:52 You're like walking it off.

28:53 You're like, oh. Unfortunately, when they put him on camera the next time, he had a big rap on his head.

28:57 I know.

28:57 So he didn't exactly play it off very well. He should have taken that off.

29:00 It's like, reminds me when I was playing street hockey with my kids, right? My son, Jackson. And we used to have battles in our driveway, right? And it would be me and Paul against Jackson and Gregory. And I'd be like, no slap shots. And, of course, the kids don't listen, right?

29:15 Shocking.

29:15 And Jackson took a slap shot and drilled me right in the stomach.

29:20 With the stick or the puck?

29:21 No, the puck.

29:21 The puck, okay.

29:22 Drilled me right in the stomach. And he's like, Daddy, you all right?

29:25 I'm like.

29:26 I'm like, I'm all right.

29:28 I'm all right. I took a walk for like three minutes before we resumed play.

29:33 I was like, yeah, I'm all right.

29:34 I'm all right.

29:35 I had a bruise.

29:35 It was terrible.

29:36 On the bright side, it only got you in the stomach.

29:39 That's true.

29:39 Could have been worse. That's true.

29:41 You're right about that.

29:41 Then that would have been a problem. Yes, that would not have been good.

29:44 That would have been a problem.

29:45 Call 911. Luckily, it was after all three of your sons were already born.

29:51 That's true.

29:51 201-939-4513. 201-939-4513. All right, let's go to James in Georgia. I haven't heard from James in a while. James, what's happening, man?

30:05 Hey, what's going on, guys?

30:07 What's going on, John and Luke?

30:10 So I'm glad I called. I was supposed to call yesterday when I had Paul... And mad on because the last time I called was last time Monday, not Victory Monday. But I told them, you know, I don't think, and this was before even listening to any national pundits or media people.

30:32 I called them.

30:32 I told them. I said, I don't think Harbaugh is a Scataboo guy. Everybody loves Scataboo. But Harbaugh, the way he plays, his maturity level, he's a young guy. I don't think Harbaugh is all the way in on Scataboo yet.

30:49 Well, James, you know what, though? James, real quick, after Harbaugh sent them a message last week, now let's see if he comes back and he can fix some of those problems. And maybe he can become a Harbaugh guy if he does some of those things that the coach wants him to do.

31:03 Yeah, and I was just saying that to say that right after I said that, and Paul called me crazy on it, the national media took off with, oh, I think he, you know, Harbaugh likes him, but I just don't think he loves him. His antics, his backflips, his this and that, you know, Harbaugh wants more maturity, da-da-da-da-da, right?

31:24 And then... you know, you go from zero, he gets zero carries. How I would have handled it was I would have gave him carries in the first half, but I would have set him in the second half when the game was on the line. And that will, you know, I think that teaches a better lesson than sitting somebody in the first half and then putting them in the second half and they fumble again when the game is on the line.

31:46 Well, no, James, in fairness, I think John Harbaugh was being very genuine in the post-game press conference that going in the goal wasn't like only five snaps and no touches. I think the problem is that in the second half they went down so big it turned into a Tyrone Tracy game because he's their third down back, right? And that just ended up taking away a lot of the opportunities.

32:04 Yeah, but, I mean, he's had maybe two plays in the first, and he had those plays turned into pass plays, but they could have easily, you know, who knows if Jameis checked out of it or, you know, it just wasn't a run play for Scadaboo right off the rip. You could send Scadaboo in there and never call a run play. You know what I mean? And that's how everybody viewed it on Sunday. You know, he said, well, it just didn't happen. Yeah, because you put him in there, but you didn't call any runs. My second thing, what I really actually called about was the... Come on, Paris.

32:42 What kind of.

32:45 Dog is Paris?

32:46 Yeah, what happened?

32:47 What kind of dog is Paris?

32:51 So, I guess, like, you know the show Wishbone? You remember the show Wishbone?

32:58 Yes, yes.

32:59 Yeah, one of those dogs.

33:01 Oh, okay.

33:02 All right.

33:03 I got two of those and my dog Barkley. I'm going to introduce you to Barkley. He's a husky that I got.

33:11 Husky?

33:12 And named him Barkley.

33:13 Nice.

33:13 And then probably Barkley left the team.

33:16 Oh, jeez.

33:17 I mean, it wasn't even a full season. And, you know what I'm saying?

33:22 It's like buying a jersey. You name your dog Barkley and then he's an eagle.

33:27 Yeah. Yeah, right.

33:28 It's a tough spot.

33:31 You know, I still love my dog. Yeah, of course.

33:35 I would hope so. Yeah. You should just change his name, James.

33:42 I could.

33:43 I could at this point. His middle name is Blue because he's got blue eyes. You know what I'm saying?

33:49 Okay, so Blue works. Just call him Blue.

33:50 Yeah.

33:50 Yeah.

33:51 Yeah.

33:53 So, yeah, it was an embarrassing loss from a couple of standpoints because, I mean, we're not going to second-guess Harbaugh's decisions. And he explained how he wanted to get closer or was trying to get the touchdown before the field goal, which.

34:12 Is a smart move.

34:14 And I was also yelling, kick the field goal before two minutes. It was just poor time mismanagement. At the end of the game, we should have kicked the field goals when we got to the first stat, when we got to the 20 with three minutes left to go the way we were playing.

34:30 Well, James, the thing about it is, if Zvada just kicks that ball out of the end zone like they told him to, and look, he tried to. He just didn't execute the kick. But if he does that, they have an extra 40 seconds to play with on that final drive. No doubt.

34:45 Yep.

34:46 And even one of the things was, well, why don't you just angle it towards out of bounds anyway? Not off the back of the end zone, just let.

34:52 It go out of bounds.

34:53 You start at the 40, right, not the 35.

35:01 You know, you're trying to get those three shots.

35:03 No, James, I hear you, but I think Zavada's got such a strong leg. There was just so much confidence that he'd be able to put it out the back that they probably weren't even that worried about it, to be honest with you.

35:13 Right, right, right.

35:13 Yeah, yeah.

35:13 But it was kind of like you can't, like, fault them, but the decisions that were made just didn't fall the way we needed them to last Sunday, and that's what's frustrating. You can't say they were a bad decision because, you see, he kicked it three quarters out the back of the end zone. The guy got it down there at the back line. You know what I mean?

35:33 James, I'd put it to you this way.

35:35 The Giants, unfortunately— I appreciate the call, James. Thank you.

35:37 Thanks for the call. The Giants, unfortunately, put themselves in a situation where if there was one mistake made, it was going to cost them the game.

35:44 When you go down 24 points in the fourth quarter, that's what happens.

35:47 Right, that's the point, is that when you're trying to bring that kind of a– you need so many things to break your way. If one thing doesn't break your way, it's going to end up costing you, and that's what happened, whether it be the execution of Zavada not kicking the ball through the end zone, Saints bringing it out, rightfully so.

36:04 That gets it to the two-minute warning. Saints are able to take an additional 40 seconds off of the clock. There are a lot of things that went the Giants' way to put themselves in a situation– to potentially tie or, I mean, and John Harbaugh mentioned after the game that they would have went for two and would have went for the win, which I would imagine if you score there, it would have been an unbelievable atmosphere out at MetLife Stadium for the Giant fans that had remained there given those circumstances. But yeah, in the end, you get what John Harbaugh was trying to do at the end of the game. Unfortunately, you know, execution comes into play and Zavada did not execute.

36:43 Coach can only control so much. Yeah, that's right. He can only make decisions. He can't go out there and kick the ball, too. All right, let's go to Jason in New Haven. Jason, what's happening, pal?

36:52 Hey, John and Moose, how you guys doing today?

36:54 What's up, Jason?

36:55 Good. I just want to say happy ring day and banner day to our reigning defending NBA champs.

37:00 Yes.

37:01 Damn right.

37:01 So I'm excited. John, I'm sure you'll have a great time today.

37:06 Safe travels to the Garden.

37:08 The tickets were a little out of my price range, but I'll be there in spirit watching on TV.

37:12 Not quite as bad as the NBA final games were last year. Not quite that bad, but, yeah, still high.

37:18 It's close enough.

37:19 Four digits, yes.

37:21 Anyway, on to the Giants here. I'll try to be quick with the points. I was at the game Sunday, and I will agree, you know, it's hard to blame one player, and I'm not going to really blame him per se, but, man, that Charlie Jones fumble really took the air out the stadium.

37:36 Yeah, it did.

37:37 And it seemed like we could never really get back into the game until J.J.

37:43 Came in.

37:44 Here's what I saw. I don't know who's going to be the starter next week. Like you guys said, you guys said it so eloquently. You could see it going both ways.

37:53 Maybe you give J.J.

37:55 Another week, two weeks to kind of learn more of the offense. You know, so I get that point. But, man, does that kid have a live arm? Watching him live, I've never really seen him live. But his arm is, you know... No, he can sling it.

38:10 He can sling it.

38:11 Yeah, he can spin it.

38:13 Yeah, he has a strong arm, man.

38:15 Some of those throws he made was kind of impressive to me watching live.

38:19 And.

38:20 I kind of want to push back on the narrative that the Saints were playing prevent. I don't necessarily agree with that. I saw a lot of their corners playing tight man-to-man coverage on some of those passes he was completing.

38:33 Jason, I looked at it. I don't think the Saints played man-to-man once the entire fourth quarter.

38:38 Well, I will say this. I don't know what the numbers say, but I noted that the corners were up on these receivers contesting some of these games. you don't do that in, in just prevent defense. So I don't think it was necessarily, they were just playing prevent the.

38:53 Whole, I wouldn't call it prevent defense, but they definitely were not blitzing as often as they were in the first half. And they were playing more zone than they were playing men. That's, that's how I would put it.

39:03 Okay. Yeah, that's, that's fine.

39:04 That's fine.

39:05 Um, and then my thing with this man, two points, I'll get up there, the JJ thing. I personally want to see what he could do. Um, Jameis has had 10 years.

39:15 In the league.

39:16 We know what Jameis is. And this is not a knock to Jameis. I'm not trying to dump on Jameis.

39:20 That's not what this call is about.

39:23 But to me, at this point, people will say, well, you're.

39:26 Going against Houston.

39:26 You can't put him against Houston. Well, the schedule doesn't get any tougher, any easier after the bye. So whether you play him against the Texans or the Jaguars or the Eagles defense, I mean.

39:39 I think it's, no, I get it.

39:41 I think it's more a case of, is he fully like, is he fully set ready to go? And, you know, you can't answer it. John can't answer it. I can't answer it. Johnny Mac can't answer it. Like, we don't know. We're not part of the coaching staff. Like, where does he have a full grasp of the entire offense? That's all.

39:57 Or do you think as a coaching staff that he needs a little bit more time before you hand him the reins of being the starting quarterback of the Giants?

40:05 Absolutely. No, I get that, Moose.

40:07 But what I will say that I like about J.J., that I like about Dart, even though they're two different players, you can tell, right? His ability to move is such a benefit in today's league. I've said it for years.

40:20 You need a quarterback.

40:22 Unless you're a top-tier pocket passer, you need a quarterback that can maneuver, that has some escapability. And I think he will open up the run game. Will he help us average 150 yards a game?

40:36 No.

40:38 But the threat of him moving is going to keep these D-ends moving. where they're at, they're going to second guess for a moment because they don't want him taking off for 15 yards. My last point, and this is not for you too, but this is just.

40:50 Overall for Giants land.

40:53 My fellow Giants fans, what I will say is this. For years, we've complained about accountability with other head coaching regimes we've had.

41:05 That's right.

41:06 And we finally have.

41:07 A coach who I believe.

41:10 coaches.

41:10 That I like that are hard-nosed and not going to sugarcoat anything, when you fumble and you continue to fumble, you're going to sit, regardless if you're a fan favorite or not. So for all the fans that are complaining, well, why didn't Scott get a touch? Why didn't he get a touch?

41:26 What's going on?

41:28 This is what accountability looks like. On the offseason, when everybody was screaming, we need to sign Harbaugh, this is what you signed him for. Now you signed him to win, of course. But for too long, we've been a team bereft of accountability and tough love. I won't even say discipline. I'll say tough love.

41:46 Jason, look.

41:47 I personally agree with John Harbaugh for benching him. Now let's see what Scott and Tracy and these guys can do, and I'll.

41:53 Take it off here.

41:53 Thanks, Jason. No, look, and I think his last point is 100%. This is why you hired John Harbaugh. He knows how to build a culture, right? Handling situations like this. This is why he is here. You have to trust that he knows what he's doing in these situations.

42:07 Got to hold on to the football. I mean, if you're going to be a starting running back or, you know, the bell cow running back or get the majority of the touches in that running back room, ball security is a big-time key. And if you can't hold on to the football or you're showing a penchant for fumbling the football, one of the two, I mean, there's going to be, unfortunately for the player is... then you're not going to be trusted to be out there on the football field.

42:35 And there's other aspects that go to it too.

42:37 And it wasn't a one-time thing for him either. He had four fumbles in five games.

42:40 Right.

42:41 I mean, so, like, if you have four fumbles in five games, that's a problem. And then the word gets out. And we talk about it being a knockout, punch-out league. Now everybody feels like, well, when he's getting the ball, we're going to go after it because he's going to fumble. And so, like, and until that narrative changes, the only way that narrative changes is that you become a running back that doesn't cost you, you know, or cough up the football. So for Scadaboo is, you know, he learned the lesson. The Giants did not lose on Sunday to New Orleans because Cam Scadaboo did not get touches. The Giants, there were a number of other issues for the Giants, which resulted in New Orleans finding a way to win

43:21 a football game. I understand that he's a fan favorite. He learned a big-time lesson. Giants still, as an organization, obviously still believe in the player, but he's got to take care of the football.

43:29 And he'll get another try. Yeah, no doubt. Long season. Long, long, long, long, long season.

43:34 I'll tell you this. Tracy, there was, and John, maybe you'll remember the play. There was a play in, it might have been third quarter, where New Orleans sent a blitz, and Tracy had an unbelievable blitz pickup.

43:48 When he cut the guy at the legs, at the knees, it was a great performance.

43:51 I mean, it was like an unbelievable blitz pickup by Tyrone Tracy.

43:56 Like one of those where you're like, oh, like he deserves a gold star.

44:00 Like that is laying your body out on the line. It was unbelievable.

44:03 No, I'm with you 100%. Let's go to Jeff in Maine. Jeff, you're up next.

44:07 Oh, hey, guys.

44:08 Thanks for taking my call.

44:09 You got it, Jeff.

44:11 According to PFF, the Giants have the 8th best pass-blocking offensive line, but the 29th best run-blocking. So I'd like to have a good ground game as much as the next guy, but I also believe you have.

44:24 To tailor the play calls to the personnel you have. So wouldn't it be logical to pass the ball more, even if McCarthy is in there, and then you can establish the pass? And then if you can establish the pass, that would set up the run because the boxers would be lighter.

44:39 No, I think that makes sense, Jeff, but eventually you do have to run the ball because otherwise you're going to be throwing it 50 to 55 times a game. And this is a point that Jason made. Unless you're sitting back there with Stafford or Dak Prescott or Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, it's hard to win that way.

44:56 Yeah, you can't. They don't have– I'm not trying to– Winston and McCarthy, whoever is the starting quarterback, that is not what you want to do to be successful. I mean, that's it. You have to work with what you have. Now, you want to tell me you're going to have Jackson Dart? Well, I put Jackson Dart on a different level than these two quarterbacks, and I just do.

45:18 But he needs a running game too.

45:20 Yeah, no doubt, 100%. So this is not, you know, we're not going back to Warren Moon and the Houston Oilers, you know, with Hayward Jeffries and Curtis Duncan.

45:29 You're dropping Curtis Duncan on me. Yeah, look at that. That's a good one. I love him. Ernest Givens? Ernest Givens, yes. He had the electric.

45:37 He used to go like he was electrocuted when he caught a touchdown.

45:39 Do you remember who their fourth guy was?

45:42 Hayward Jeffries, Ernest Givens. Curtis Duncan Hill?

45:47 Drew Hill!

45:48 Yeah!

45:48 There we go!

45:50 There we go! They were my team in Tecmo Super Bowl. So I was all about the Oilers in Tecmo Super Bowl.

45:58 I love the Oilers, man. And they had the prettiest uniforms.

46:01 Oh, they were great.

46:01 They were great.

46:03 Anyway, what were we talking about, Jeff? I forgot what we were talking about. Jeff, go ahead.

46:11 Okay, well, thanks.

46:12 If they know you're going to run it, though, then it's harder to run.

46:15 But I guess that's my point.

46:17 All right, thanks.

46:18 Yeah, you got it. No, I appreciate the call, Jeff. No, look, if you want to pass to set up the run, that's fine. I got no problem with that. If that's how your team is built, where that's the way to do it, sure. But you still have to run the ball successfully after you set it up. And I think that's kind of what the Giants tried to do this past week, Moose, and that still— remember, they came out the first two plays were passes.

46:35 Yeah, right, which I— First three pass plays, actually. First three pass plays, because then it was third and long. For a long stretch of that game, the Giants' leading rusher was Mooney with the one count for 20 yards. I mean, that was— and that is not— That's not what you want to do. And I don't think that we're not speaking– and you've got to have more production from your running back room where you have 14 carries for 34 yards. The ground game, however way you get there, whether you're passing to setting up the run or whether you're running and establishing that to help out the passing game, however way you want to look at it, however way you want to get there, you have to be able to run the football.

47:12 Absolutely right. You have to. Whether you're in a four-minute offense trying to run the clock out, whether– you're in goal to go.

47:19 Yeah.

47:20 You didn't get in these goal to go situations, Moose. You got to be able to run the ball down there. No, you can't. You have to.

47:25 And you got to figure out, and John, you ran through it and you were saying that, you know, you and Tiki were talking about it on the post game show on the radio side of things about the number of different blocking schemes that they're running up front. Maybe this is a case where, you know, Nagy and company are trying to figure out exactly what works best for them before they find out exactly what their bread and butter is. You know, whatever it might be. But, it's got to be more effective than what it is. And the Giants know that. And we're not speaking out of turn.

47:51 The Giants are not going to, you know, nobody's going to tell you that this is good enough. It's not. You've got to be able to run it. And that was the surprising thing Sunday against New Orleans, John, is that you thought going into that game against that rush defense, as you mentioned earlier in the show, that was the get-right game for this rushing attack, and it just wasn't.

48:09 Yeah, look, we're only through 35% of the season. Yes. We're through six games of a 17-game schedule, all right?

48:15 No doubt.

48:15 So there's still some time. to figure this out. Remember, beginning of last year, the run game wasn't looking too good either. And then they kind of figured it out right around now when Scataboo started becoming more of the central part of the run game.

48:26 Yeah.

48:26 So maybe that's what we're going to see now, too. We'll have to wait and see. All right, let's go to... Len, call me in Maryland. He's been on the longest, and then Jerry will wrap us up. Len, what's going on, pal?

48:35 Hey, guys. How you doing?

48:36 We're great.

48:37 Let's go on, Len. Let me start off by saying this team's in good hands.

48:42 Exactly right.

48:43 I mean, Harvard, you know, each... I think he's doing a great job. I love the pressers. He's handling the press well. he's going to produce a winner.

48:54 And by the way, Len, some people have been saying he's, like, attitude-y and nasty with the press. I just think he's very forthright and honest. I don't think he's, like, being mean or nasty.

49:04 I think he's been— I think he's—you can see a little discouragement in his answers. I mean, he's a little frustrated, too. Well, he doesn't like to lose. He's not with the press. He's answering their questions. I think he's—I think we're in good hands, and I think he's got good assistant coordinators. Look, let's face facts. I didn't want to start with this, but I'm going to start with this now. At best, guys, he inherited the fifth worst roster in the NFL. We drafted fifth. That's why I used fifth.

49:40 Come on.

49:40 It was a terrible roster. He's remaking it. That's why I've been saying since last February, let's win seven games. Let's get out of last place. He's going to get us there. He's going to get us there. Look, the middle 30 minutes of that game, I'm not counting seconds here. I'm just grabbing a number. The middle 30 seconds of that game Sunday were horrific. That was just awful.

50:10 They got outscored 34-0.

50:12 It's not good. I mean, it was just horrific. The offensive line, the league right now, given all the issues that we've got surrounding the nine players on our offensive line, the league is just too fast for this offensive line. And this is the time of year Time of the season, when it's going to be the fastest. Preseason's over. Teams are now defining themselves. Separating yourself is the main thing for these teams now. They're not as injured as they're going to be in week 14. It's the fastest they're going to see all year.

50:56 You're probably right about that.

50:58 The offensive line just... Moose, let me use something that you said as an example. Tracy made the great pickup block in the backfield. Why did he need to do that?

51:12 Oh, yeah.

51:12 It was a blitz.

51:13 It was a blitz.

51:14 It was a blitz.

51:17 There you go. I mean, they're coming through that line too quickly.

51:21 I want to ask you a question, though. Seriously. Because I think there's more issues in the run blocking than the pass blocking at this point, right? Do you think the run blocking issues also have to do with dealing with speed? Or is that more with the ability... of using power to move people and not moving people as well.

51:37 I'm just curious what your take is on that part of it.

51:39 I think it's the speed. Okay. I think you can look at the two young players who played on Sunday, not the center. But we do have to get an anchor. John, you know, I'm center oriented. You've been on.

51:55 This for a long time, Len.

51:56 12 years ago.

51:57 You've been very consistent on this. No, you've been all over this for a decade.

52:00 The game is too fast for Maui Ager right now. He's just got to find himself in that game. It was the same thing with Bo. He's a nice tackle. He's got a future. I'm glad we have him. But right now the game is just moving too quickly. You want to point to, if I may, to add to that, and I think it's wrecking the game. Why did we sign Ricard so quickly? What did we want out of Ricard?

52:31 Well, they wanted him to be the lead of a power run game.

52:33 I don't think we wanted Ricard to play tight end.

52:35 Right.

52:35 No.

52:36 Yeah. No. No, that's not what we wanted. We wanted him in the backfield. We wanted him to block in the run game. Maybe it will get simple. It's eye formation. I know Paul loves it. Maurice Carthon, Joe Morris behind him. You know, it's Ricard knocking people over, opening things up. You've got to get Ricard on the field. You've got to play him in the backfield, eye formation. I'm tired of seeing our running back standing next to the quarterback in this shotgun situation. Let's just go back to some very basic football to run the ball. Let's not put the offensive line in a position that they have to engage in too much movement. I mean, let's just say to them, every offensive lineman who ever played this game

53:27 will tell you, oh, I love just going straight ahead and pounding the guy in front of me. Let's just keep it as simple, get Ricard back in the game. I think that's how we pick up the wrong game. Now, to be able to do that, I think you've got to move McCarthy into the game. You've got to play him on the center. If he only knows 70% of the playbook, let's do it. But here's one. Let me end on a positive. There is an absolutely great possibility that when we come back from the bye and play Philly in Philadelphia, we are going to be in first place in the NFC East at the start of that game. Yeah.

54:08 The season starts in Philadelphia.

54:12 Yeah.

54:12 10 games. It's a 10-game season starting in Philly. Thanks, Len. Thanks for taking my call, guys. Hey, let's go Giants.

54:20 Let's go Giants. Yeah, Len, and you mentioned about the movement. Someone else pointed that out to me in terms of the pulling where, and we know Thomas is limited, but you've seen it where the guys that are, you know, the blocks aren't being made or you're seeing the penetration where the block is supposed to, but the Giants have not been able to get there as an offensive line.

54:42 And So it's all a work in progress. Maybe it's more schematic than anything else Len brought up in terms of playing a little bit more power football, getting that ground game going. It's got to be– they've got to figure out a way for it to be clearly– I'm not looking for it to be dynamic, right? You don't have Jameer Gibbs or Bijan Robinson.

55:03 But be consistent.

55:04 But be consistent. Where you're not in– as we talked about on the Saturday morning show, John, you can't be in third and obvious positions. regardless of who's at quarterback. It can't be third and long all the time because you're just going to set yourself up for offensive failure.

55:18 No question. The Giants host the 5K Racing Kids Run, presented by Quest on Sunday, November 8th, 9 a.m. at MetLife Stadium. Their proceeds benefit the Giants Foundation, a 501c3 nonprofit corporation. You get a free t-shirt, post-race festival, Giants Legends, live DJ. Check it out, Giants.com slash 5K. And Giants Total Podcast this week, by the way, Mark Malousis is going to have Judy Batista from NFL.com. networks that'll be fun i will have our normal texans preview uh draft season's going up there today and uh working on drew phillips this week uh for the player interview on friday so that's a good one should be good it's played well this yes so go check out john's on a podcast on your favorite podcast platform uh just search what's

55:53 the topic for you and tony pauline this week uh tony goes to his um top tens on offense at each position oh i love that and then how they're updating from uh the off season but we're halfway through the college season at this has arch dropped dramatically He never had Archer 1 anyway.

56:10 Did he have Mestimaker from Oklahoma State?

56:12 No, he has Chambliss. Oh, he does? He has Chambliss, Mensa, Mestimaker.

56:17 Mestimaker.

56:19 So that's how he has it right now.

56:20 Yeah, it's interesting.

56:21 I love that stuff. It's great. Right now, I'm not sure I would feel great about picking any of these quarterbacks in the top 10, to be honest with you, with the way they've played.

56:28 Yeah, no, that's true. Mestermaker's fun to watch.

56:31 No, he is, but he's just so inexperienced.

56:33 He is so inexperienced, but it's a cool story.

56:35 But in terms of traits and the guy you think might become the best guy, he's probably it.

56:41 Yeah.

56:41 But one season at North Texas and five games at Oklahoma State, he didn't even start high school. He was a backup.

56:48 Like, isn't that amazing though?

56:50 That's why football's great.

56:51 Like, it's amazing when you think about a guy who never played, like didn't have any tape.

56:55 Whatever.

56:55 The North Texas coach gets the job at Oklahoma State. He follows. And now all of a sudden.

57:00 Freaking walk on at North Texas. It's unbelievable.

57:04 It's crazy. And now he's, a lot of people look at him as being at least, at the very least, a top three NFL quarterback prospect.

57:11 And some people love Austin Simmons who wound up at, he's at Missouri. Correct, Austin Simmons?

57:16 Yes. Yes.

57:17 He's in Missouri. He was supposed to be the starter last year until he got her and Chambliss took his job and never gave it back at Ole Miss.

57:23 Yes.

57:23 So it's, it's wild.

57:25 Yeah.

57:25 Chambliss is fun to watch at Ole Miss. If he was just three inches tall.

57:28 I know. Just be three inches taller.

57:30 But he's really good.

57:31 I'll tell you, Bryce Young's having a good year for Carolina.

57:33 I'm very happy for Bryce Young. I loved him coming out. I'm happy it's finally coming together.

57:36 Yeah, because a lot of people jumped off that bandwagon.

57:39 How about Mike Idzik's kid becoming like an uber-kin offensive coordinator? Like the Jets money guy. His son.

57:46 Yes.

57:47 What did I say?

57:48 Mike Idzik.

57:48 Mike Idzik, sorry, yes. Well, I said ankle, not wrist before. His son is doing a great job with Bryce Young in Carolina. Doing a great job. He's doing awesome.

57:57 Right.

57:57 John Idzik, who was the basically running, Jets hired him as GM after he was like running the travel for Seattle. Remember that?

58:07 Only one carry on.

58:09 All right.

58:09 Jerry Bocartone, we have a few minutes here, Jerry. We're going to go to round 105, so you have some time. Jerry, what's happening, pal?

58:15 Okay.

58:15 Good afternoon, gentlemen. And let me just tell you, I don't get to see many giant games. I do get to listen to the audio of the games. But on last Sunday's game, I did get to watch it. And I have a question as to whether there wasn't pass interference on J.J. McCarthy's last pass because the receiver had.

58:35 One arm up.

58:36 And the other arm seemed to be pinned by the defender.

58:39 You know, Jerry, you're right. It did look that way, but I never saw a camera angle that showed the defender actually holding the arm down. It was kind of pinned against the defender's body. I didn't see a grab there, Moose. And usually in those jump ball situations, you're not going to get that.

58:55 I thought his arm was across his body. I didn't think he was holding his arm. Okay. Your point.

58:59 Yeah.

59:00 But I mean, I could be wrong. I didn't see a definitive one.

59:02 I mean, I, you know, if, It looked bad, Jerry, you're right, but I didn't see anything that made it look like an obvious call.

59:08 If McCarthy looked eight feet to his right, he would have seen Willie Faber standing alone.

59:12 The problem is that the play started to the left, and if he would have just gotten off that side of the field a second earlier— And then I thought he sensed some pressure that really wasn't there. So if he could have fixed those two problems, Moose, I'm with you. If he gets back to that right side of the field, neighbors is open.

59:29 Neighbors, yeah.

59:31 It happens.

59:32 It happens.

59:33 That's why you don't go down to one play at the end of the game.

59:35 No, that's true.

59:35 Which is what we talked about before, right?

59:37 Yeah, and you could have. I mean, there's so many things that are called to your point, Jerry. There's so many things that are called at the end of the game, though. Such a frenzy.

59:47 Could you make an argument that a flag should have been thrown? Probably.

59:51 Well, in that case, it should have been, I think, given the whole circumstance. that it should have been first and goal at the one-yard line.

1:00:01 You know, Jerry, funny enough, by the way, the play that I thought was more obvious, and you're probably not going to like this one, on the deep pass to Charlie Jones that hits off the Saints.

1:00:10 Player's chest and pops him in the air.

1:00:12 Charlie Jones, he grabs Quincy Riley's arm and pins it to the side of his body. And bounces off his chest. Yes, because Riley couldn't lift his arm up to catch the football. So it kind of evened out there a little bit, Jerry.

1:00:25 Okay, well, I have two other questions. In some of the games that I've watched, particularly against the commanders, you've got a running quarterback. Why don't you have... an assigned spy on that running quarterback once you know that he's capable of running and switch off and have a different assigned spy for every play so that you don't have these tremendous runbacks that keep the drive alive for the offense that you're trying to defend against.

1:01:00 No, Jerry, great question. Usually you use spies when you're playing man defense, right? And that's usually when you have issues with running quarterbacks. Ironically... On the majority of these runs, the quarterbacks, the Giants have given up moves the last two weeks. They've been in zone defense. So usually when you're in zone, Jerry, your defenders have their eyes on the quarterback anyway. So you shouldn't have to designate a spy.

1:01:21 They don't have their backs to the quarterback. Correct, like you have in man. So you shouldn't have to designate a spy, but the Giants have not been able to properly... fulfill their zone coverage responsibilities, and watch the quarterback at the same time. If it keeps becoming a problem, that might have to be something, even when they're playing zone defense, they might have to lean into a little bit, Moose. Exactly.

1:01:42 That's my point.

1:01:43 You know that you have certain quarterbacks that are capable of running just the way our quarterback is capable of running. Why don't you just have a particular guy, no matter what your defense is, assigned to watch that quarterback?

1:01:58 The only problem, too, Jerry, then you might have to blitz one last guy. Because if you don't want to take a guy out of his own, then instead of rushing five, maybe only rushing four. Instead of rushing four, maybe only rushing three.

1:02:08 They don't know who the guy, the.

1:02:10 Spy, is.

1:02:11 No, that's fair. I would also say, I don't know if that's necessarily right. There are some quarterbacks that are just, regardless if you put a spy out there, they're going to be able to outrun them.

1:02:21 I'm not sure Tyler Shook's that guy.

1:02:22 I don't think Tyler Shook's that guy.

1:02:24 But Jaden Daniels is.

1:02:25 Daniels is that guy. Correct. Prime Lamar is that guy.

1:02:28 Vic is that guy.

1:02:29 Like, there are quarterbacks, like, when you look at, like, Jaden Daniels and Arvel Reese is very, very fast. But Jaden Daniels ran past Arvel Reese. He's extremely quick.

1:02:41 I don't think there's anyone else left on the Giants schedule that you would qualify, right? Except for Daniels. You got Daniels in the commanders. Obviously, Tanner McKee's now the quarterback for the Eagles. Trevor can run, but I think he's a guy you could spy if you needed to.

1:02:53 Yeah, Purdy can run, but you can spy him.

1:02:55 Yeah, and then Darnold, too. I would put Darnold in that same category. He can scramble, but you can do that. And then that's kind of it.

1:03:01 You don't go in, but here's the thing as a defense, you don't go into any of those matchups with the fear that that quarterback can beat you or have long touchdown runs when you're looking at Darnold or Perkins.

1:03:10 Yeah, the Giants actually have a schedule without very many mobile quarterbacks this year.

1:03:14 Yeah.

1:03:15 They don't have many mobile quarterbacks on the schedule, believe it or not. They don't.

1:03:17 No.

1:03:18 What's your final one, Jerry?

1:03:19 Okay, the last comment in the question, why don't we just go by history just the same way that the Dolphins did years ago when David Woodley and Don Strzok were known as the two-headed quarterbacks and they interchanged the quarterbacks on various plays, even in the same series. Why couldn't the Giants do that this weekend?

1:03:45 I appreciate the call.

1:03:46 I don't, I, I, you know, I'm, I think if you have Parcell said a long time ago, if you have two quarterbacks, you don't have a quarterback.

1:03:53 Or if you have more than one closer, you don't have a closer. Right.

1:03:55 I don't, I don't, I think, I think you have to, you have to, you know, make a, you know, you make a decision, whatever it ends up being. If it's JJ McCarthy, if it's Jameis Winston this week against the Houston Texans and you go there, I, I, I don't think it's a case of you're changing series. You've seen it in college football. I, I don't think you're doing right by the players. I don't think– and especially if you're looking at Jameis Winston, he's one of those guys that he can start off– he needs at times to find a rhythm. I don't think you're necessarily going to do right by that player as well. So I don't– I don't think you can go back to that model and say that's what the Giants should do this year

1:04:31 in 2026.

1:04:32 Yeah, I didn't remember the Dolphin example he gave. The example I remember, and I had to double check the name, and I thought it was him. I remember the stallback Craig Morton.

1:04:41 Yes.

1:04:42 Then the Cowboys traded Craig Morton to the Giants. Yes.

1:04:45 After that.

1:04:46 That's right. Surprisingly, they landed on Roger Staubach in that little competition.

1:04:51 Yeah.

1:04:51 And there have been.

1:04:52 Quarterbacks where you go back to Joe Gibbs when they had Jay Schrader and Doug Williams.

1:04:57 That's a good one. Didn't the Eagles do it with Jaworski and Randall Cunningham a little bit in the late 80s? I think they did.

1:05:04 But I just don't think that necessarily set me up for success.

1:05:09 No.

1:05:10 It's going to be, listen. I mean, Moose, real quick, we just talked about how game plans are specified for quarterbacks?

1:05:15 Yeah.

1:05:15 If you're playing two guys, how are you putting a cogent game plan together?

1:05:19 Well, and two quarterbacks that are distinctly different.

1:05:21 Correct.

1:05:22 Correct.

1:05:22 Then what, like how, what are you, what are we going to do? Everything? Like then, then it's like, like you have one quarterback in, and I know Winston's used his legs, but he's not a running quarterback. He's a pocket thrower. And then you look at McCarthy and, His legs are more of a weapon. So you're devising an offense.

1:05:38 You can't go. That's why we talk about time and time again. If I've got a dual threat, look at Baltimore, right? Baltimore's got Lamar Jackson. Their backup quarterback is Snoop Huntley, right? When healthy, Washington's starting quarterback is Jayden Daniels. When healthy, Marcus Mariota is the backup quarterback. Why? Because they can run the same offense with the starter and the backup.

1:05:56 It's not distinctly different.

1:05:58 Moose, good stuff, my friend. Jon, enjoy tonight.

1:06:01 I will.

1:06:02 I want a picture.

1:06:03 Oh, you'll get many pictures. I want a photo. I want you to get some good gear. Yeah, you'll get to go. And enjoy tonight. Tonight, you are a huge Knicks fan. You've been a season ticket holder.

1:06:15 20 years. Finals last year. Two decades. A lot of pain.

1:06:19 A lot of suffering. You get to enjoy it as LeBron and the 76ers watch the Knicks put up a championship banner for the first time in 53 years.

1:06:29 It's amazing. And I say this now, and I know it's not going to be that way once I'm in the seat and I'm watching. I don't even care if they win or lose tonight. It doesn't matter. I don't care. It doesn't matter. The battle was won. Now, this is an interesting dilemma for me. I know we're late. Sorry, Johnny Mac. My seat, which is, I'm in section 213.

1:06:48 Come by, say hi. Which is kind of, you know, underneath the chase bridge. That is now over the thing, right? Okay. I can't see the championship banners from my seat.

1:06:58 Oh, no.

1:06:59 So I'll see it because, you know, they usually start it underneath and then they lift it up. Yeah. But once it gets to a certain height.

1:07:05 You're not going to be able to see it.

1:07:06 It's just going to disappear.

1:07:07 Oh.

1:07:08 Well, it's not a big deal. It's not bothering me, but it's just a fact of life.

1:07:12 Let me ask you this. Who do you think is holding the banner before it gets unfurled? Like, who do you think is, do you think they have luminaries? Do you think it's former Knicks? Who do you think it is?

1:07:27 So you think, are they going to carry it out? How do you think the logistics are going to work? Oh, no. Well, it's got to be attached to an anchor pulley system, right? But don't you think as it's.

1:07:38 Getting unfurled, there's going to be people there? Do you think it's Dolan?

1:07:41 Do you think it's... I think the whole team with Mike Brown will pull the thing off of it as a team.

1:07:49 Yeah.

1:07:49 And then I think, who's going to do the flag thing? Is that going to be Brunson? Brunson? That would be my guess.

1:07:58 I would think it would probably be Brunson.

1:08:00 I mean, it could be multiple guys doing it together.

1:08:03 Then they hand Kat a contract extension. So everyone's happy.

1:08:11 I was actually very proud of a joke I made to my friends.

1:08:14 They unfurl the banner and it's a big check.

1:08:16 Like you'd get on the prices right. Or instead of the banner, they take the black thing off. It's just a big white apron with a number two on it. The second apron.

1:08:28 Like that one.

1:08:29 That's a good line. That's a good line.

1:08:31 Yeah.

1:08:31 Me and my buddy were also joking about whether or not they give out like t-shirts. A lot of times they'll put t-shirts on the seats. And before I use this with you, my joke to him was that, no, they have just put white aprons on the number two on all the seats. So everyone can wear the second apron over the course of the game. That would be a great idea. Courtesy of James Dolan. Congratulations on the championship.

1:08:49 Yes.

1:08:49 We're going to have to break up the team now because of the second apron. That's it. Good times. All right. Enjoy a wild last night. John, have fun tonight, all right?

1:08:58 I will.

1:08:58 Take it all in. Melusis O'Hara tomorrow. O'Hara, I saw him at the Giant Stadium trick-or-treat thing for a Giant season. That was fun. Nice. A lot of people grumbling that Richie Soibert wasn't there. Oh, really? I guess apparently on an early thing that you were supposed to be one of the guys signing, I guess Sean replaced him. A lot of angry fans that one. A lot of angry.

1:09:17 Make sure you bring that up to him tomorrow. I'll bring that up. Thank you. I love all those. I'll throw that curveball. Just like I brought up Spartanism. Oh, did you really?

1:09:26 I did.

1:09:26 He's like, who told you that? I go, I can't divulge. All he wants to do is me.

1:09:31 I know I didn't divulge my Spartanism. I go, is it true when Copland yells out Giants pride that you yelled out Spartanism? He goes, who told you that?

1:09:45 Well, more antics like that tomorrow on Big Blue Kegel Live at Noon. For Mark Malousis, I'm John Schmuggles, all brought to you by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the Giants. We'll see you next time, everybody.