Trump Meets Xi in Washington as Domestic Woes Grow

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0:31 We want to check in with our guest who is joining us right here in studio. Heidi, Creebo Redeker. She is a Senior Fellow for Geoeconomics at the Council on Foreign Relations. She's been following the high-level meetings here going in and around New York City. Good to have you here. We're waiting for some leaders. Some are early, some are late.

0:51 That's the way it goes. There's traffic in New York City. We are talking to lots of leaders. And I think always top of mind, certainly considering kind of our domestic political climate and then our relationship with the world, meaning the United States, I think about kind of what it means to and how global leaders are looking at the U.S.

1:09 Right now.

1:10 How do you see it?

1:11 So, I think, I mean, this is a very important gathering in New York, and I do think we've seen some fireworks already. The conversations when I speak with governments outside of the U.S., particularly Europe, Asia, is really trying to figure out where we're going with the current Trump policy vis-a-vis allies. And then the big U.S.-China question about what is this upcoming summit between Trump and Xi going to deliver? And really, because we've seen this administration you know, pivot more towards the Western hemisphere, but also away from allies and partners. Where does, where, how do we get trust back? And so I think that the trust is really the big question on a lot of, a lot of leaders' minds.

1:59 I want to get to the state visit from Xi Jinping, by Xi Jinping in a minute, but on the allies question. I had an interesting conversation recently with a Canadian business person who was talking to me about the political environment in Canada and how he views U.S.-Canada relations. And he said something that struck me, and it was that he doesn't think that the relationship between the U.S. and Canada will be repaired, even by China. the next president, no matter who it is.

2:28 So I talk to a lot of Canadians about this. I mean, I come from New England. Anyone who lives sort of on the border with Canada knows how tightly interrelated not only the economies are, but also families. And the ties are very deep. And yeah, I'm hearing the same message. And one of the challenges is that Canada actually has and has delivered... the kind of security chain resilience that we need right now, whether it is in energy, for our energy security, critical minerals. We have $ 150 billion bilateral trading relationship with Canada. And now they are so concerned about our approach towards Canada and the rhetoric about the 51st state that they are pivoting and hedging away from the United States. So you have Mark Carney, a

3:19 very climate-focused prime minister who is all about building pipelines to try and make sure that they have diversification plans. So that, I think, is very unfortunate for the U.S. because that kind of infrastructure is permanent.

3:34 So, you know, we've always talked, Heidi, for such a long time about how the U.S. and China need one another. Is that still the case? I mean, China has been trying desperately to continue to develop its domestic market. It's not there. We buy a lot of stuff. So I am just curious about that symbiotic relationship. Does it still exist?

3:54 So there's certainly, I mean, it definitely still exists. The question, I think, more is for China, because they have this very specific plan for a dual circulation economy where they depend less and less and less on the rest of the world, but their economic future is dependent on being able to export more and more and more to the rest of the world. And it's really, that's the foundation of many of the questions that That not just, you know, the U.S. and Europe and Japan, but also developing countries because they're getting the sort of excess capacity flooding into markets right now. And so it's really, is that sustainable for the rest of the world with China producing at the scale it is?

4:35 At the same time, there's a lot of stuff that China can do that the rest of the world can't do.

4:39 Absolutely.

4:40 And I don't see that changing no matter which countries look inward. That's the way it's been, and I think, at least in our lifetimes, that's not going to change.

4:51 I think we want to be able to continue to sell goods to China. I think we want to be able to sell more than just agricultural products to China, although they're very, very.

4:59 Important, and especially.

5:01 for our farmers right now to be able to have those export markets. But I do think, you know, as we look at the more, the integration of dual use into many of the technologies, and particularly when you get to the AI overlay in technologies, you're going to have a lot more of a diversification of needing to sort of separate What is strategic in national security buckets and what is not? Europe is also bearing the brunt of a lot of the Chinese export machine, particularly in the automotive sector, and just flooding the market.

5:40 And because the U.S.

5:41 Has been a lot more aggressive, let's just say, on the tariff front, a lot of the exports that would have gone to the U.S. are landing in China. in Europe, they are also far ahead of us in terms of climate and embracing EVs and electrification and renewables. Spain's at the tip of the spear in wanting to do more with China. So I thought it was interesting that he's actually raising the overcapacity issue, that trade deficit issue needing to be addressed. Because in all of the different conversations with European leaders, and they all have to come to an agreement on a trade agreement with with China. It's not just Spain with China. Having him say that they are also concerned about this trade deficit, I think is important.

6:32 Is it important because leaders of these countries need to thread this needle with the United States as well?

6:39 They need to show to the United States.

6:42 That they're being tough on China to a certain extent to support the way that the United States right now thinks about China?

6:48 So Europe is caught in the middle. It's caught in the middle of this strategic competition. And there have been pressures for years from multiple administrations in the U.S. for Europe to get on board with some of the more sort of national security questions. arising from Chinese exports and the integration of critical infrastructure from China into European infrastructure.

7:14 So a lot of what they produce at scale and export are things that have, that are like connected infrastructure. And that poses certain risks. I don't think that they, I think Europe is threading the needle is one way to express it. They also were very aware that China is the main support line for feeding Russia's war machine supply.

7:41 to be able to engage and continue to attack Ukraine and now attack, you know, potentially more than just gray zone European NATO members.

7:53 Thirty seconds left. The meeting between President Xi and President Trump, just top of mind that we should focus on very quickly.

7:58 So I focus on critical minerals and I'm waiting to see what comes out of this. I know from the most recent meetings between the vice premier and President Scott Besant and then Jameson Greer said, we're not there yet on this truce. The critical minerals truce is supposed to run out in November. People don't realize when they talk about the big topic of AI between the U.S. and China is that critical minerals are the foundation to the energy part of it, to the data center part of it, to the technology side. It's part of the stack, and it starts with the critical minerals.

8:30 If someone wants to bring us to our knees, just cut off those supplies. They have the trump card.

8:33 Right, exactly.

8:34 Heidi, thank you so much, and thanks for bookending everything that's going on for us here, certainly on a global scale. Heidi Creebo Redeker, she's Senior Fellow for Geoeconomics at the Council on Foreign Relations, joining us here in studio.

8:48 Stay with us.

8:48 More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

8:55 You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube.

9:10 Right now, we do have one of the global leaders that is in town sitting down with a member of our Bloomberg community.

9:16 Yeah, high-level meetings of the UN General Assembly continue this week, bringing global leaders to New York City and to Bloomberg World Headquarters. Right now in our New York studio, Bloomberg's Francine Lacroix sitting down with the Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sanchez.

9:28 Yeah, thank you both. We're delighted to be joined by the Prime Minister of Spain, Mr.

9:32 Pedro Sánchez.

9:33 Thank you so much for joining us here at Bloomberg Global Headquarters. Now, it's been about two months since the mass arrival in Ceuta. Beyond what has circulated on social media, do you now know whether any state or organization facilitated what you called an attack on Spanish sovereignty?

9:50 We're still investigating what happened those days, but there's a there are some certainties. The first one is the economic gap between one side of the border and the other side of the border, between Morocco and Spain. Second, the use of social media to expand misinformation about Europe. about the situation in Spain and Ceuta. And last but not least, a border control mechanism that has to be improved by both sides, of course Spain and of course Morocco. And with Morocco we have a great relationship. We cooperate on many issues, not only economically, but also fighting against terrorism and of course fighting against smugglers and irregular migration. So we have a very positive cooperation. We have asked for

10:43 answers and also for actions, and they are certainly taking those actions.

10:48 Prime Minister, there's also a shift, right, that's more towards the right in a lot of European countries. How do you explain that?

10:55 Well, I think that the far right feeds from legitimate anxieties of our societies. Inequality, I would say, is the main driver. The point here is that when they. Start to win elections and be in government, the change is from anger to disappointment. And this is what we are witnessing, for instance, in the last elections in Sweden, where the far right decreased its electoral support. So, all in all, I think that the expansion of the far right in some countries, when they are in government after four years, the people realize that they don't deliver for the ordinary people. And I think that the challenge that we have from centrist parties, center-right, center-left parties, is to deliver, especially when it comes to inequality.

11:53 Is it a messaging problem or is it a policies problem? I also know that European leaders will discuss next month the trade deficit with China.

12:00 How much of that will help? How would you deal with China today?

12:02 It will be a hot topic, because of course the trade deficit especially when it comes to the European Union. It is increasing last year, also this year. So it's going to be a hot topic. We are about to begin these trade talks with the Chinese government. From the Spanish perspective, and this is what I'm always defending around the European Council, table is, OK, we need to cooperate with China because we have common challenges such as climate change or AI technology. Second, we need also to manage our differences. And precisely when it comes to trade deficit, I think it's so massive that it's not possible to absorb from the European economy. And that is why I think it's very important to manage this difference and to

12:53 try to reach an agreement with the Chinese people.

12:56 Do you think that you'll have a concrete agreement or is there anything that Europe needs to do today to really reduce the dependency on China?

13:03 We need to reduce our dependency on China. We need also to reduce or rebalance our dependencies towards other economies such as the US. And that is why I think it's very interesting what is going on in Brussels when it comes to our trade agreements, for instance, with Mercosur, with India. with Australia, with Indonesia, and so on and so forth. I think one of the main strengths that we have in the European Union is our willingness to open our economies and to bridge with other regions or other countries on economics, trade, investment, and so on and so forth.

13:42 I mean, economically, it's tough because of the energy crisis. I mean, you've had good numbers in Spain.

13:47 Yeah, well, I think this is the situation. Unfortunately, the war in Iran... Again, the war in Ukraine is affecting all of us. That is why, you know, I don't understand why we are having this terrible war in Iran. Why don't we close this chapter? Why don't we try to establish a diplomatic relationship between the both sides?

14:13 Why is it so hard, Prime Minister?

14:15 I don't know. I think that there's a clear necessity of political will in order to reach that agreement. But meanwhile, we're suffering not only casualties, but also a rise of the cost of living, the gas prices, the diesel prices. And this is affecting not only households, industries, our economies, but also the public finances of many countries in the world. So, you know, I think that the big lessons that we have to take from Russia, Ukrainian war, and of course Iran war, is the need to electrify our economy. And this is something that we have been doing over the last eight years that I'm in office in Spain, thanks to renewables. Sixty percent of our electricity nowadays comes from renewables,

15:11 and we have by far one of the lowest electricity prices in Europe thanks to this green transition.

15:18 Prime Minister, two very quick questions. One on data centers. I mean, Spain has attracted quite a lot of investment in data centers.

15:24 Are you expecting more?

15:25 And again, are you disappointed that Europe doesn't have an AI champion?

15:29 What we want is to have the best investments when it comes to data centers. And that means that they have to be engaged with this green transition. So they have to consume renewables. Second, it has to be an improvement on water management, which is an issue in all countries, especially in Spain, which unfortunately is suffering greatly. the consequences of climate change. And last but not least, also the data sovereignty, data security when it comes to personal data from our citizens, precisely on health, security matters, and so on and so forth. So we have launched this public consultation in Spain. We are about to pass a royal decree that we call it in Spain in order to define the framework for investing in Spain on a data center.

16:32 And, Prime Minister, I know you're out of time, but just very quickly on the European Central Bank, because there's going to be shifts. We understand that Madame Lagarde may leave. Do you think it's time for a Spaniard to be at the top of the European Central Bank? And we hear the name of Pablo Hernando de Cos. Does he have your support?

16:48 Of course. Of course, he has my support. I think that he has been an outstanding person. president of the Spanish Central Bank. I think that he has the leadership. He has also the capacity, the knowledge. And of course, it would be, I think, very positive not only for Spain, but also for Europe to have someone like him leading the Central Bank. But this is something that, of course, we need to talk with the rest of members states of the Eurozone. And of course, it would be the first time that Spain leads this very important institution in these very complex and difficult moments.

17:28 Prime Minister, thank you so much for joining us today.

17:30 We could talk for another two hours, so we'll have to rearrange another interview.

17:33 Always a pleasure.

17:34 That was, of course, Prime Minister Sánchez of Spain.

17:38 Stay with us.

17:39 More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

17:46 You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube.

18:00 We are sticking with the environment and with technology. This is one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal today. We know Americans oppose data centers. They're hulking power and water use. Now they're rallying against them for another reason, and that is heat.

18:13 Yep.

18:13 Behind the walls of an AI data center, massive racks of servers hum around the clock. The more electricity they use, the more heat they create. We get it. We know even any kind of like, I feel like any kind of equipment around here, we have lots of air conditioning to control that heat.

18:28 Kyle Stock is a senior correspondent for Bloomberg News. He joins us from beautiful Boulder, Colorado, on this Wednesday afternoon. Kyle, as you and Elena Mejia report, a single facility can use over 50 megawatts of electricity. Can you just contextualize that amount of electricity, what it means, and the heat that's generated from consuming that electricity?

18:53 Yeah, scientifically, there's a pretty direct relationship between electricity use and heat exhaust.

18:59 There's not a lot of ways.

19:00 To get around that. And that's roughly about 53,000 homes, the heat you would expect from sort of the typical energy use in a house. So we're talking about multitudes more than basically residential development or sort of any kind of urban development. And this is one of those things that's kind of surprising to the industry. The science is just coming out on this now, but then when you think of it, it's not really surprising at all. It's sort of like, why don't we notice this sooner?

19:36 First of all, I highly recommend everybody check this out on the Bloomberg. It's just the graphics are incredible. But you talk about how, Kyle, data centers cool their systems with cold air. They discharge it then off and off of rooftop systems. And as a result, heat plumes are created. And I'm just reading from the story. These plumes, these heat plumes can travel over 300 feet beyond the data center in certain wind conditions. And the point is, you're talking about hotter temperatures. And as a result, nearby areas...

20:07 Potentially have to use what? More air conditioning or raise their air conditioning and it's higher costs.

20:14 Yeah.

20:15 So like I said, the science is new, but they're basically driving around these data centers with monitoring the heat and how it would compare to what's typical. And they're finding up to a third of a mile and a temperature change of like three to nine degrees, which is not nothing, especially... in some of the really hot urban areas like Phoenix, where these things are. And this is kind of the flip side of what Kara was talking about.

20:43 It's great not to use water to cool these things, but when you don't use water, you have to use air. And when you use air, you get this heat emissions and what they're calling the heat island, which is basically an urban environment is a heat island already because of blacktop, because of roofs, et cetera. But it's sort of exacerbated by these data centers.

21:03 Yeah, I mean, anyone who's walked through Manhattan on a hot day in the summer and then gone to an outer borough and felt the temperature difference, you can understand why buildings are sources of heat and certainly sources, in this case, a data center would be.

21:23 So then....

21:25 Bring us up to speed on how this is now turning into a rallying cry for groups that are opposing data centers. We've talked about other parts of the data center story and why people are opposed to them, but now it seems like they're paying attention to heat.

21:41 Why is that?

21:43 Basically because the science is starting to catch up to the technology here. There are physicists, urban planners, mechanical engineers, basically just starting to study this effect, which is, it's not surprising, but there's finally some good data on it. And pick any survey you want. Nobody loves a data center.

22:08 No one especially loves one near their home. So the opposition playbook, this is becoming a powerful tool, especially in places like Phoenix. And then on top of that, you have there's good economic reasons for these data centers to be in urban areas. They're closer to end users. There's good fiber optic infrastructure. So, you know, it's a fast connection.

22:32 So a lot of these data centers are in urban areas and a lot of them are clustered because there's economies of scale and building them together. So that's where this really compounds, not only just a big data center sucking up a lot of energy, but when there's a lot of them together and they're in an urban area.

22:49 So literally in the opposition though, you see these groups are writing playbooks. They're like circulating ways to oppose these things. And they're literal playbooks, like you can download them and this is getting on their radar and this is an effective tool.

23:05 I think what's also interesting that you guys remind us, right, Kyle, that Data centers are not new. We've had them for a long time. But using AI chips, as you guys write, that their power use growing exponentially and so is their thermal footprint. And you guys write and report pretty much all the electricity powering data centers turns into heat. So that's a big difference.

23:29 Right.

23:30 And that's even without, in a lot of cases, taking into account the extra heat from the energy load needed To serve these data centers. So you need a new natural gas plant to feed the power to these things. That's a whole nother heat issue. So, yeah, it's substantial.

23:49 One expert you spoke to for this described, and I think this is a great way to describe it, is basically a giant laptop. And anyone who sat with a laptop on their lap understands the heat that it generates.

24:00 Which always freaks me out, can I just say.

24:03 We only have 20 seconds left, but can you just describe sort of the tools, the thermal imaging that has been used to gather data in this?

24:11 Yeah.

24:11 I mean, the scientists are using real temperature measurements, but we were kind of curious. So we We hired a drone pilot with infrared technology to just fly over and around some of these data centers. And you can see it. I mean, the temperature is coming off the exhaust fans in the roof. It's 130 degrees, something like that. It's totally evident. And these developers are trying to do the right thing. They've got to do things vertically. But it's tough.

24:40 So it's not AI that's going to kill us. It's the heat from the data centers. Kyle Stock, so appreciate it. Thank you for joining us.

24:49 Stay with us.

24:50 More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

24:57 You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

25:11 Hey, we're sticking with technology and AI. I want to bring in Mark Gurman. He's managing editor for Global Consumer Tech. He joins us from our LA bureau.

25:19 Mark, I... Do you want to ask him if he's worried about AI?

25:22 Yeah, I mean, I do. I don't know, Mark. I know you're super busy.

25:25 I don't know if you had a chance to listen to Dario Amadei or Sam Altman at the UN just now. We were listening to it. So much of your reporting about AI has had to do with the way that Apple hasn't actually been catching up to some of these, some of these rivals and some of these.

25:40 Other tech companies.

25:42 I'm just curious where, where you stand and where you fall in the view about the so-called apocalypse.

25:48 Haven't we talked about this before? I thought some pretty, uh, Oh, then maybe it was on another show. Um, I have some deep, uh, I have some deep.

25:56 Thoughts on this.

25:57 All right.

25:57 Well, we have time, Mark. Well, I like what Apple's doing.

26:01 Um, Now, good context, and I like what Meta is doing. I like what they're doing because it seems like they're trying to develop AI products that help augment society, augment people, augment the ability for people to get work done, be more social, get answers to their questions, plan things, write things, jog their memories. Apple's not done a very good job at it, but they do have that thesis that they are following, and they'll get good at it over time, I'm sure. Meta Muse, if you've used it, you know they've gotten good at it out the gate. What I'm seeing from OpenAI and Anthropic is this decision to create models that are powerful enough that they can create their own models and go off and do their own things

26:48 and replace humans, not make humans better, not augment humans, not serve as a co-pilot through life.

26:55 I don't like that.

26:56 I don't like that at all.

26:57 I think the use cases for ChatGPT and Claude today, they're pretty good. And if those two companies focus on just making the current use cases better and expanding use cases that help people throughout their day, I think we'd be in a very good place. But this idea of building things that could replace humans, it's terrible for society.

27:16 And people, I think, are going to start rebelling and turning against those companies.

27:23 That's sobering.

27:24 Yeah.

27:25 No, I'm glad we did ask you again. I know we cover a lot of ground with you, but it's hard to disagree with that assessment. Speaking of assessments, let's talk about what's going on in Apple because we've been- Well, I want.

27:39 To say one more thing.

27:40 Yeah, please. I want to say one more thing.

27:41 Yeah.

27:42 There's a lot of people concerned about AI replacing jobs and putting people out of work. And that's a horrible thing. But the implications of some of the things that are being built go.

27:56 Way further than that, right?

27:59 Talk about replacing jobs is one thing, but replacing people in society is another, right? Replacing typical societal roles for human beings. It's very deep, and I think it's out of control.

28:16 It's existential, Mark. It's existential. And does it sound like.

28:21 the folks you talk to in Silicon Valley around these companies get it?

28:26 I think there's a huge risk and I think they understand it. But I also think on the AI, the core AI research side of things, the things that you're seeing out of open AI and anthropic, they're pretty laser focused on just doing it. We'll see what happens. I don't think the world is ending tomorrow. I don't think the world is ending period. But I do think the government, if I may, needs to get involved and slap some regulations down on this. This is very different. than the space race 50 years ago, 60 years ago.

28:54 So do you agree with Sam and Altman in terms of, do you take them at face value that they're saying we need some coordination and oversight?

29:04 I don't know why he would make that up, but we have to see, we have to see the pudding and we have to see what happens in the end. You know, people say things and maybe it's true, but sitting here today, there's no way to know where this is going to shake out.

29:17 Yeah.

29:18 Mark, speaking of government.

29:19 Yeah. Sorry.

29:20 Yeah.

29:22 I'm not concerned for myself. I'm just concerned about the long term of the world, you know?

29:25 Yeah. Look, this is one of the reasons we love talking about you.

29:29 You bring a really important perspective to this and make us think about this technology, this really important technology. And, you know, like we're talking about, it is existential. You mentioned technology. the government, and that's kind of where we want to go. We want to go to Washington, D.C., because Mark Zuckerberg of Meta, NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang, OpenAI President Greg Brockman, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Tim Cook, Executive Chair of Apple, they will all be at a White House state dinner for Chinese President Xi Jinping this week.

29:58 The technology... folks who are going to be there, what are they doing there? Why are they there?

30:07 You should ask them.

30:08 You should email Tim Cook and ask him if he wants to come on your show and ask him, so why are you going to the White House?

30:13 You kind of have to, right?

30:16 How could you not?

30:17 Yeah.

30:17 You've seen what happens to tech companies who don't attend Trump things, and sometimes he'll blast them. I think it would be a bigger distraction for a tech company to not attend this event than to attend the event. Is that a good thing, that not attending a White House state dinner should put you in the crosshairs of the government?

30:38 Probably not, but I think it's the reality that we're living in.

30:44 So we got... Do we have time? I think we have time. I want to make sure we have time, Mark, because you have to go in one minute.

30:49 We're going to switch gears because Caroline could not stop talking about this yesterday.

30:53 We want it now.

30:54 A potential rival to the Whoop health band potentially coming from Apple. You reported on this story. It had reverberations around the world yesterday. It might not happen, but if it does, what will it be and when will we get it?

31:07 Well, I think it'll happen, and I think it'll be two years from now, and I think it's going to have reverberations. I think Apple's realized that the Apple Watch with the display, it does not fit all purposes that people want a smart band for, a smart watch for. At this point, people want something even more health and fitness centric. They want something they could raise weights with without hurting their wrists. They want something that you can sleep with more comfortably, and I think they're going to deliver that. But Apple aside for a second, that is very exciting. Meta is making some real blockbuster announcements later today. Oh, some real blockbuster announcements with some surprises. Uh, have me

31:41 on again tomorrow.

31:42 I want to talk.

31:42 Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

31:45 Sounds like Mark.

31:46 Like we'll find out. Mark would tell us, talk about it. Here's the thing. Mark would tell us if he could tell.

31:52 Us, um, they're on fire right now. Yeah. It feels like.

31:56 With Muse.

31:56 Meta? Yeah. It's good timing. It's good timing for this.

31:59 All right.

31:59 So Mark, a subscription, the Whoop is free, but starts $ 199 a year for subscription. Do you think Apple's would have a subscription that would be a similar price?

32:10 I don't know.

32:11 That's not Apple's business model. Apple's never done hardware as a subscription other than these new leasing programs. So I'd be pretty surprised if they went in that direction. I think more likely is that the band costs money and then the health stuff becomes a subscription rather than the band being the subscription.

32:28 Smart move?

32:31 Absolutely a smart move.

32:32 But you look at the market penetration, Aura plus Whoop is probably, what, 10 million units, 10 million active users. That's small potatoes for Apple. So it's not going to be as big as people think, I think, from the outset, but it's good to have that compelling alternative.

32:46 Could be a challenge to Whoop, especially as it's valued at over $ 10 billion and might go public soon.

32:55 It's interesting.

32:55 It's interesting.

32:56 These health companies, Aura, whoop, they're innovating. Apple's not innovated in the smartwatch space for a while. In fact, they're copying these guys. They copied a lot of the software with the new Apple watches. And so it's time for them to copy the hardware too. But with the Apple fit and finish, I think it'll be popular.

33:10 Yeah.

33:10 And with a week of battery life and you have to rarely take it off and it's comfortable.

33:15 And Apple has so.

33:16 Much expertise in fabrics and component miniaturization. They'll do a good job on this.

33:20 I will tell you now.

33:22 If I may, to borrow your words, Mark, I would buy this product on day one. And I can't say that about any other Apple product right now.

33:33 That's interesting.

33:34 Why?

33:34 I would love something without a screen on my wrist that seamlessly integrates in the Apple ecosystem. And I imagine, given the history and what Apple has done in health and wellness, that it's going to be a pretty good dashboard.

33:47 Mark, I want to go back to a jawbone. Is that really sad? No, it was so simple, and it worked. I mean, it had some certainly... That's old school. I know, but it was simple. I slept well.

33:59 It worked.

34:00 I loved it.

34:01 But, okay.

34:02 So this isn't going to be like a jawbone. It's going to be a lot more stuff on it?

34:07 Uh.

34:08 The Jawbone was real old school, and that launched before a lot of these health sensors blew up and these capabilities expanded. So this would be much more capable and thinner than the Jawbone and better battery life. The Jawbone was kind of cool.

34:19 It was ahead of its time.

34:20 I know.

34:21 Very simple. I loved it, and it really worked well. I loved how it woke me up when I wasn't in my deep sleep. That really made my sleep much better. I'm just putting it out there, Mark. We want you tomorrow. So since there's some news.

34:34 I'll see you then.

34:34 Okay. Deal.

34:36 Deal.

34:36 Mark Gurman.

34:37 We love Mark Gurman. He's Managing Editor for Global Consumer Tech for Bloomberg News. Check out all of his stories and his entire team's stories on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg.com.

34:46 This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.