Execution Fail! Life Saving Measures Used on Christa Pike! Why?

0:01 Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore. There's one image that is burned into my mind. And it is an image of a forensic anthropologist seated in the witness box in a trial in Tennessee. back in 1996. And this man, who is one of the most esteemed forensic anthropologists ever, is holding a skull. A skull that is actually fractured and particulated, but yet has kind of been cobbled back together.

0:53 But if you look at that skull that he's holding, there's a big piece that's missing. from the back of the head. That man is Dr. Murray Marks. He's renowned. And he, on that stand, is telling the story about a fractured skull.

1:12 A fractured skull that was destroyed by blunt force trauma that was, in fact, fractured by using a chunk of asphalt. It is a horrible story. And it is the story of Colleen Slimmer and her murder. Today, we're going to have a conversation, not just about Colleen's murder, but the attempted execution.

1:48 Of her killer, Krista Pike. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Bags.

2:00 Brother Dave, many moons ago, I covered this case. And because it was one of those things that, I've got to be honest with you, I had not followed before.

2:15 I hadn't.

2:18 It happened up in Knoxville, adjacent to UT's campus. And when I got to digging into this thing, you know, You reflect, I do, I'm guilty of this, you reflect on things like man's inhumanity to man. It seemed as though at that time, I remember thinking back, that this seemed like you kind of hit the basement of hell.

2:47 Behind this steam plant, grungy, dirty area. And you think about a young life being brought to an end in this environment. And this is not like some genocidal murderer that people are exacting revenge over. This is a young girl that is just trying to live her life in difficult circumstances to begin with. And this is how her life ended.

3:18 When you try to search for information about the murder of Colleen Slimmer, OK, the first thing that will pop up about Krista Pike is it'll say something like Krista Pike, child rape victim faces execution. That's child rape victim. That's what pops up. Colleen Slimmer is 19 and dead at the hand of Krista Pike. And yet the headline on most of these is some type of sympathetic jab about Krista Pike. The reason we're talking about this today is because Krista Pike was sentenced to death in 1996. Here we are, 2026, and her death sentence, through all of the appeals and all of the other things, finally is carried out. And yet, When it didn't go as planned, for whatever reason, and we will get into that in

4:27 a minute, okay? But Krista Pike, we know, most of us know now, you know, they jabbed her once. She slept through it. She starts snoring. They jab her again 45 minutes later, two different jabs with the chemicals, and she doesn't die, okay? Now, Joe, I have to ask you this, because the penalty is a death penalty, right?

4:49 And the way to carry it out is through lethal injection. So why is there a time limit on how, you know, how long do I mean, why would you go to life saving measures when the goal was to take her life? The goal was to end Krista Pike's life. It was carried out, and then because it didn't go exactly as planned, they turned it around to life-saving measures. Krista Pike is on a ventilator right now, and I have to wonder if the job was to end her life, why are we doing everything possible to not end that life? Somebody is messing up here, Joe, because I'm going to be honest.

5:42 if I happen to be up there in the hospital in Tennessee where she's in ICU, I'd kick the plug, you know?

5:50 Well, no, I think a lot of people feel that way and take what you're, you're feeling right now. And I think that you're expressing, um, a significant portion of the population's frustration with this.

6:04 Yeah.

6:05 How much more so for Colleen's mom?

6:07 Oh, I know. If, if the, if the method of taking life was, um, firing squad.

6:14 Yeah.

6:15 Would you and I were in there and we're EMTs and we run up there because maybe the shot didn't, you know, well, they go body shot, but you know, would we go up there and try to save the life of the, you know, would we try to dig out the bullet? Would we do everything we could to save that life after the fact, Joe, is that what we would do?

6:34 No, no.

6:35 And let me, I'm, I'm going to reveal something about one of our private conversations that we've had. And, We talk about many things, don't we, brother? Unless you have it on tape, I deny it. We'll talk about music and we'll talk about everything else.

6:50 Just so you all know, I've said, if I were to ever run for office, my slogan would be, yes, I did.

6:57 Well, this is not– I'm going to be very delicate here. And there's no reason to do that in this circumstance. But I will remind– I want to tell everybody this because I think the point you made is quite salient. And that is that they used to hand down sentences. And I think a lot of us like this verbiage.

7:21 You know, you can see some judge sitting on the stand. And you reminded me of this when they said, and you shall be taken out on the appointed day and you shall be hanged.

7:37 Till death. Is that how it says? Is that the way it says?

7:39 Hang until dead.

7:41 You will be hung by the neck until dead.

7:43 Yes, until dead.

7:44 Yeah, and that's a very terminal, literally and figuratively, it's a very terminal comment by the judge. Like, here's how this is going to happen.

8:00 And there was a real reason for that, and you know the reason, you know?

8:03 Yeah.

8:04 I've done a lot of reading over the years, as you can imagine, about executions. I've been kind of fascinated by the process of it and kind of how it works out. The queen, king now, but even before the previous queen, Elizabeth, the king.

8:26 I thought you were talking about Freddie Mercury for a minute.

8:28 No, no, no.

8:30 He had his own executioner and there was a whole family. It was a generational occupation.

8:35 Okay.

8:36 What does generational occupation mean? Well, what it means is that you have perfected a craft. Now, I don't care how you feel about that, okay? Because a lot of people will go, they'll clutch their pearls and say, a generational occupation?

8:53 Yeah.

8:54 Just like a miller or cobbler or a fletcher who used to make arrows. There was an occupation.

9:03 Of executioners.

9:06 And the family actually famously, they actually handled all of the hangings or many of the hangings during the Nuremberg trials. And there was detailed information that would be entered in to a log relative to height, weight, those sorts of things regarding that individual that was sentenced to be hung.

9:36 And it was highly effective because there was great study that was applied to it. And therein lies the humanity in it. People talk about how executions are in one of the positions. However you feel about capital punishment, there is an underlying current of, I think, that some people, many people would like. for it to be humane. We would like to see this thing over with and done.

10:07 And they had perfected this. You can even go back to Henry VIII when he had his wives killed. Did you know that was not a Brit? that are an Englishman that did that, they would bring a executioner in from France that was highly skilled with a sword. And that's what they did.

10:30 One swing. Okay.

10:32 This is something that has been part and parcel of who we are as humans. Unfortunately, nowadays, bureaucrats are involved in it.

10:44 And they have, I think.

10:47 Polluted the waters so poorly. Trying to be humane. I'll give you some examples. I think it was last year. They had the firing squad in South Carolina.

10:59 Guess what? They missed.

11:03 I think that guy wound up bleeding out. It ain't a long shot. You go to the 1st. nitrogen execution, which you and I, brother, talked about on this show in the great state of Alabama. It was a horrible event the way that was facilitated. And here we are with Krista Pike. There have been a lot of successful executions that use that use drugs that will bring an individual to an end, but they keep screwing around with it relative to the formula. Well, who's to blame for this?

11:52 The lawyers.

11:54 I'll say it plainly because they'll go in, their idea is to appeal and try to extend life. And I understand that. But every time they go in, you know, it'll be cruel and unusual, these sorts of things. This formula does not, you know, it's not adherent to what we accept in society as being a humane way to end life. And as we talk about on body bags relative to victims, Colleen has now faded back into the wallpaper here. We're not talking about Colleen anymore. We're talking about Krista Pike, um, And of course, that's what always, you know, gets lost. You know, even when you talk about Ted Bundy, you don't ever talk about his victims.

12:38 The victims are merely murals on the wall that, you know, kind of that inhabit that space.

12:44 And if you remember when they electrocuted him, there were two groups of people protesting, those protesting the death penalty and those that were out there having a Bundy cue, you know, their fry, Bundy fry and all that kind of stuff. And yet here we are, Joe, and We are 30 years after conviction, after sentence, and it's not like Krista Pike has been an ideal prisoner either. You know she was charged with another attempted murder while in prison.

13:14 She has been all sorts of things, but your bottom line here is she was sentenced to death. And I know that that carries out an immediate appeals process.

13:25 It does.

13:27 It's automatic, okay? It's not a choice. It's automatic. And it doesn't matter what the convict wants to do.

13:35 It's automatic.

13:36 So we go through this whole process, and her execution is upheld. Her sentence is upheld. It could have been changed over the years, but based on the heinousness of this crime, there was an option to not change it. And when we talk about Krista Pike, I am fed up with hearing about... what she went through in life.

14:00 I think about what Colleen Slimmer went through at the end of her life at the hand of Krista Pike. And it was, you mentioned it in your opening, of where Colleen was lured. You know, Colleen Slimmer was in this Job Corps program as it was Krista Pike to Daryl Shipp, and the woman who was a lookout who became state's evidence and walked away without anything, okay?

14:27 Which.

14:27 Boggles my mind. But she did. So we have Krista Pike jealous that Colleen Slimmer, that Krista Pike, the guy she thinks is her boyfriend or that she likes, has a crush on Colleen. Doesn't matter what Colleen's interested or not. But Krista, she puts this whole thing in action, Joe. She was the instigator. She was the planner. She was everything.

14:55 And it got to the point where they're like, hey, Colleen, look. Krista wants to put all this behind us and all the bullying and all of the back and forth, you know, because they live in dorms at this job corps, you know. And for many, it is a second chance at getting into adulthood. Oftentimes people that are in the program back then were high school dropouts who ended up in trouble, you know, as teens. And that was Krista Pike. You know, Krista Pike, you know, She broke into a, to steal candy when she was like 11 or 12. She also was, and I'm not dismissing this, it's part of the record.

15:40 Krista Pike was raped at 12 years old by a neighbor, okay? Nobody, nobody should have to live with that, okay? And the fact that Krista Pike was not counseled did not get the help that she needed to try to recover from this horrific incident that was on her. You know, Joe, when she broke into this to get the candy, that was on Krista Pike. When she was raped, it was not on Krista Pike. And based on a number of things, she didn't get any help, but, or didn't get the help she needed. She went down a path that led her into one bad thing after another in the system.

16:29 And Crystal Pike was a Job Corps at the same time as Colleen Slimmer. Colleen was not there for that same reason, okay? Came from different areas, both ended up there in this program with many other people, learning a trade, learning how to get along with others. I mean, that was the whole point of this Job Corps was to really build a platform, you know, to start your life, a good form, just, for people who had trouble as young people, you know, as teens to try to build some foundation here. And Krista Pike chose to take this as an opportunity to lure Colleen Slimmer into an area where the claim was, we're going to smoke, we're going to smoke some weed, just like the peace pipe. We're going to put all this behind us. No more jealousy,

17:14 no more backbiting. We're all good. We're all friends here. That was what Colleen Slimmer was told. So When she checked out of the dorm that night to go with Krista Pike and to Daryl Shipp, Colleen thought, okay, finally, we can get all this. Colleen wasn't into it, man. Colleen was not about this at all. It's like, I'm dealing with crazy here. I just want to get, let's do whatever I have to do to make the peace.

17:37 That's why she went, Joe. So she's lured to her death. And I want you to be able to describe what happened because I've read the file. I know what physically happened, but I don't know that most of our listeners and viewers understand what happened to Colleen Slimmer that night at the hands of Daryl Shipp and Krista Pike.

18:05 When they actually get Colleen back to this area, and as you had mentioned that it was under this ruse of trying to make peace over all of this. And, of course, they've got her back there. And this thing descends into madness. First off, I want to point out that they showed up armed, okay, and armed with a box cutter. I think that that's important for people to understand.

18:37 And when I'm talking about they, these individuals that Pike arrived with, you know, where they're going to sashay back there and chat with her, the plan all along was to do grievous bodily harm to her. You don't show up with a box cutter and have a pre-decided location to arrive at where this thing just doesn't magically happen.

19:10 That's why I take issue with people that say she's not necessarily capable of of forming, you know, the idea of taking her down, that she's in some kind of psychotic rage, these sorts of things. No, I don't think that's the case at all. She went back there with these people in order to torture her. And she did because this lasted, Dave, just shy of an hour, I guess.

19:40 And we're talking about, it wasn't, it's not a matter necessarily solely of the physical harm that was done to her. It was the taunting. It was the screaming, the yelling, the threatening just on and on. And can you imagine being 19 years old and you don't have any way to defend yourself in your trap back there with a bunch of hyenas? and they're going to rip you to shreds.

20:09 Just let that sink in just for a second. When they, part of this taunting that occurred was taking this box cutter and holding Colleen down. Um, and a pentagram was actually carved into her at that point in time. Um, For those that don't know, pentagrams are generally associated with black magic and Satanism and all these sorts of things that people conjure up in their minds. What was the purpose of it?

20:48 I don't know. Who knows?

20:50 You know, you got to talk to a profiler, you know, to get into that. Or are they trying to say that, you know, we are the devil or that you're evil because you have a pentagram on it?

21:01 You know, who knows?

21:02 But in there, they decided to do this. The edge, if you've never seen a box cutter or held a box cutter, and of course, infamously, box cutters were involved in the taking over planes at 9-11. They are used specifically for creating incised areas, whether it be in a box or on a body. And they go kind of shallow, but yet it would be very, very painful. If you have a fresh blade on one of these things, they are equally as sharp.

21:36 As a scalpel.

21:38 And this would have been a very, very painful thing for her to have endured at that moment in time. And they've also included in this a meat.

21:52 Cleaver, Dave, a meat cleaver to attack her with. We talk about the box cutter, but who shows.

22:01 Up with a meat cleaver in your hand. Do people even know what a meat cleaver is? It actually looks like.

22:08 A handheld axe with a very long blade on it.

22:12 That's used to chop up meat with. So, after they have taunted her, assaulted her, attacked her.

22:23 In this manner, she doesn't die. She doesn't die.

22:29 And I quote, I quote, It is said at that moment in time by Pike, the bitch won't die.

22:40 Referring to Colleen, of course.

22:42 And then, to add further emphasis to this, she says, I want to see brains flow. Music What kind of world of space do you inhabit where you feel comfortable enough to look around at people and actually say, I want to see brains flow? I think about Colleen, you know, did she have an awareness that this was being said at this point? Well, she, you know, Pike had already said, quote unquote, the bitch won't die. So what's the solution here? Well, the solution is to pick up a piece or chunk of asphalt. This is something that they didn't have in their repertoire, if you will.

23:49 They didn't bring it with them. They found it on site.

23:51 They acquired it there.

23:53 And if you've never held a chunk of asphalt, the thing about it is that when you look at this forensically– it has got non-uniformed edges to it. So when asphalt breaks apart, even more so than like, say, a deciduous boulder where you've kind of knocked off a chunk of it, it might have edges to it.

24:21 But the asphalt, because it's a.

24:23 Composite, it kind of undulates like this. If you look at it on cross-section, there's little peaks and valleys And you can have a little sharp edges, certainly, in here. And so when you begin to assault someone with a blunt object like a piece of fragmented asphalt, you're going to get these horrific injuries because this is blunt force.

24:46 There would be multiple lacerations with this. And dependent upon the weight, I would say that the first strike, With one of these things, you can almost envision someone standing over a victim, holding this in their hands, almost caveman style, if you will, and kind of pounding down like this, transferring that energy from their arms into that chunk of asphalt and delivering that impact over and over and over again. Now, this is something that we kind of have to think about.

25:25 When you lacerate the scalp like this, you will get bone. The external table of the skull will become visible. Take a look at that picture of Murray Marks, because there's images everywhere of him from 1996 on the stand. And this will give you an idea of what you're dealing with here. If you want cold reality, take a look at that image. It's out there, and little Colleen's skull is being held by Murray Because they had to take the skull and clean it, render it down. And you will see all of the fracture lines. It doesn't require, you don't have to have a background in forensics to see this, okay? But when you see this, one of the things that is most notable, which I mentioned in the opening, is that there is a, it looks like

26:16 the occipital parietal area. So, you know, I always give you landmarks on a tape. If you find that knot on the back of your head, that's the occiput. And then if you move forward, the occiput, that part of the skull attaches to the parietal area. That's roughly in this spot right here. Dave, there's a chunk of that skull missing that's right there. Well, the reason it's missing, the reason it's missing is that Christa Pike took this as a trophy. Let that settle in just for a moment.

26:56 Let that, you know, really let that get down into your groundwater a little bit here when you think about this. What person out there would think that this is okay, you know, to do this? And I think that many people might say, well, that's indicative of her psychopathology, maybe so. I don't know. From where I come from, it's indicative of evil. Probably at the highest levels that you could possibly think about. And I don't care how old she is.

27:36 I don't care about her trauma. I just don't. I care about Colleen's trauma and what she went through. And when I think about that chunk of skull that was missing in And you're going to use that to facilitate some kind of warped show and tell.

27:54 It goes to a really dark place, Dave.

27:56 Well, the thing is, Joe, is that after the murder and the investigation, the skull was kept as evidence, as was the piece of skull that Krista Pike then used to show off in the cafeteria while people were eating, see what I got, see what we did. And so- Colleen Slimmer's mom has her remains, okay? But she doesn't want to do anything with them until she has everything.

28:27 And I understand that. The thing is, she had to fight with the state to get that skull back. And even now, still does not have that piece. And here's the reason why, Joe. Because this case is not done. Even though there's been a trial, a conviction, and a sentencing that has been partially carried out. It's not done.

28:47 So they cannot, the state will not give up that piece of evidence. And that's why I asked you, why is it that, why is it that in this case, we have to keep the evidence until everything's done? Where in other cases, we're destroying evidence like in Idaho. Before the trial even happens, we're destroying evidence pertinent to the case before a trial. And in this case, 30 years after conviction, we're the family cannot have any kind of peace.

29:20 It just, it's horrible.

29:22 Yeah, it is.

29:23 And it's, uh, um, I mean, God, God bless Colleen's mama. I mean, because, you know, you talk about being drug, drug through a keyhole, uh, for years, years and years that you don't have your, your, constituted body in totality and I know other people have experienced this over the years I understand that I truly do but this is really in the spotlight when you think about it and her life has been in the spotlight for decades now and And I'm sure that, you know, there would be, we ought to research this, how many articles have been written over the years about this is the anniversary of so-and-so.

30:11 And then they reach out to Colleen's mom and, do you have a comment about this at this point in time? It's like that sword that people keep picking at. And trust me, she's got this in her mind. You know, she's aware of it. You know, she can go look at, you know, the cremains of her daughter. You know, she's got them.

30:27 You know, they're there. It's a constant reminder.

30:30 So Dave, you know, Colleen's skull was in fact returned to her mother absent that one piece. Because case, as you say, has not been finalized because Krista Pike has not died yet. And just imagine this just for a second, brother. That one piece that Colleen's mother longs to have was actually a trophy that was taken by Krista Pike that her murderer, her butcher, held in her hand and giggled over at a lunch table.

31:19 That's what the mother wants back. And I think that that's, you know.

31:24 That's... that's the legacy of Krista Pike, you know, aside from botched execution and all this sort of stuff that that's the, that's her legacy. You know, that, that's how she shall be remembered at least, at least by me. Um, you know, that that's, that's who she was. That's the totality of who she was and what she did. Um, And I think that that's important to remember, particularly as we talk about Colleen, because to this point, I don't think that Colleen has been.

31:58 Very well served, Dave. Well, here we are, Dave.

32:12 The execution date has passed. And I've been reflecting on this doing some digging, and I think that it's important that we go to procedurally how all this works because I think many people think that it's just something that, well, we're going to take them out, we're going to put in an IV, and the end is coming. Dave, this is something, when you look at this as framed as snapshots, once the execution date has been set, This is procedurally how this has to happen. There's like a series of windows you have to go through that the state has mandated starting 30 days out from the date of execution.

33:05 What does this involve? Well, logistically, there's an entire team within the correction system that has to go through Initial meetings, they don't reveal a lot of the stuff. And a matter of fact, if you check in, some of the stuff is redacted. If you try to grab this data online, some of the really granular detail. But you have these markers that you have to go through where you've assembled a team. You have conversations about who's going to do this, who's going to do that, who's going to be involved.

33:41 Everybody knows their job because this thing is supposed to go off like clockwork, right?

33:45 Yeah. Yeah.

33:47 And of course, that didn't happen here.

33:52 But what happened, they got Krista Pike, they've got her in the room, they've got her on the gurney, they've got her legs taped down, her arm, they're sticking, and there's witnesses. They open a curtain and she's on the bed, an IV is in her arm, right? And they inject. Now, they close the curtain for injection, right? And then They opened it back up. But in this case, what happened?

34:17 First of all, what were they injecting Krista Pike with, Joe?

34:20 Pentobarbital, which is part of the barbiturate family. It's fascinating to me because pentobarbital is part of many cocktails that are out there. When I say cocktails, I'm talking about the lethal injection cocktails. A lot of hay has been made over the years. And up until recently, Tennessee had a cocktail. It was like three components. It ain't like that no more. Pentobarbital is something that it's a standalone drug.

34:55 So one injection is supposed to take care of it, and then they have a fail-safe, which is number two. You know what else pentobarbital is used for? I can give you a whole list, but as you know, I will because I'm rather verbose. But you know where they use it? Euthanized dogs.

35:11 Oh, my gosh. You could have gotten a veterinarian to do this. Wow.

35:15 Unbelievable.

35:16 Just put that in your... And my sweet Boudreau, who died many years... Well, not many years ago. Two years ago. I had him for 18 years. I held him, you know, after he had been injected. He couldn't walk anymore. And nearby killed me. And he slipped off into... He had labored breathing, slipped off into unconsciousness. and then he passed on.

35:44 This is a drug that's been around, you know, barbiturates have been around since the early 1900s. I think the first one was identified in like 1903. This is not a new drug family.

35:57 Okay. Hey, one thing I did look up, Joe.

36:00 Yeah.

36:01 Failed executions in the United States because it's not new. Just so we're clear on this, not new. There have been 276 botched, failed executions. Now, it doesn't mean the execution wasn't carried out. It just didn't happen the way they planned it. One in particular, in 1904, I think, there was a guy named Ketchum. And he was sentenced to death. And they did the math wrong, figuring his weight and all that. And so when they dumped the trapdoor, he was decapitated.

36:32 All right.

36:33 Boom. There have been others since then where the rope was too long. And again, trapdoor opens, but it didn't snap. And a fella ended up hanging to death for 14 minutes in front of a strangled to death, okay, suffocated or whatever. And so I looked over these because I asked you a couple of times since all this has transpired with Krista Pike, just because it didn't have, she didn't die as planned, why did they bring in life-saving measures and put her on a ventilator when, We've had this happen in our past, and they allowed the person to die because that was the sentence, death. And there weren't life-saving measures. Look, man, when the fella in whatever year it was in Minnesota where he hung, you know,

37:25 and just kind of swung for 15 minutes, nobody went out there and cut him down because it didn't snap his neck. You know, nobody... We've had... In 1984, we had a. An execution by gun, by a firing squad and they missed his heart. He bled to death. Nobody went up there to save him. So why is it now where we do this and all of a sudden we have to do life-saving measures right now, she's on a ventilator.

37:52 So if she's not on the ventilator, does she die?

37:54 I don't know.

37:56 And again, this is kind of a conundrum, you know, both of her parents are dead.

38:02 All right.

38:04 So, With that said, I think one of my big questions, and I'm kind of throwing that out there for everyone that's listening to us, Dave. Who makes the decision when to pull the plug?

38:16 Wow.

38:17 I volunteer.

38:19 Well, the state procedurally, they have backups for everything. Have you planned for this? Or is this something that we're doing on the fly?

38:29 Man.

38:29 Because I got to tell you, first execution of a woman. in 200 years, the records in Tennessee are so, let's see, how can I say this? Well, it's a long time ago, 1820, maybe 1819. They don't know actually who the woman was. They suspect that it's an unnamed African-American woman that was a party to a homicide of a white lady. But historically, they've never been able to To confirm that, okay? So, you've been, well, you and I both, we've been in the media for a long time. You think it's going to get any kind of coverage that this is the first execution of a woman in 200 years in.

39:23 This particular state?

39:25 Yeah, there's going to be a few eyes on you, and you're this ill-prepared. It boggles the mind relative to the procedure that is initiated. And contrary to what people think, the doctor in this case, and he's been associated with another failed attempt.

39:48 Oh, come on now. Just a couple of months ago.

39:51 I thought you were messing with me about that.

39:53 No. Another failed attempt in Tennessee. I'm drawing into question his understanding of executions at this point, Tom. So the doctor is not the one that actually sets up the IV. They're not the one that pushes the drugs. They're overseeing everything. So when this IV line is established and what we're hearing at this point in time, there were up to seven, seven needles that were used to try to establish a line. Now, I don't know if you've ever had a misplaced IV line in any kind of circumstance. I will admit to it.

40:43 It has happened to me and I've got really good veins.

40:47 I've had it happen.

40:48 And a lot of it depends upon skill level of the individual that's doing this. And I know that there are people out there saying, I don't care how much she suffered. I understand what you're saying completely. However, what I want to understand is professionally, where did you get your training? Because there are people out there that do this every day that set up IVs. And there are really good ones. And I'm talking about, you know, nurses that work their tails off all the time. There are nurses out there that will set up IV lines. You don't even know that they've set the thing up.

41:27 Okay.

41:28 That's how smoothly they can do it. So I don't understand where the disconnect is here. So if you've got this IV, this port that is in there.

41:42 All right. Now, there's also.

41:45 One other thing I have to bring up that's being currently reported is that one of these needles that was utilized, they're saying that it was bent at a 90-degree angle.

41:56 How is that even possible?

41:58 Well, you're... Yeah, and the manipulation, you know, these needles are not real robust. It's not like, you know, you're talking about a nail here that you're driving into somebody's, you know... Yeah, they're fragile, all right? They have to be, okay?

42:14 But seven.

42:16 If that's true, I'd like to be able to validate that, and hopefully we can, because I want to understand. Look, I'm no fan of Crystal Pike, okay? But if you're going to do something, you damn well need to be prepared to do it and do it in a professional manner so that you don't have these circumstances that we're staring at right now and that we will be. Because let me tell you one other thing, all right? For those of you that support capital punishment, wherever you land on the topic, this is the kind of thing that will eradicate it.

42:58 Period. End of paragraph.

43:00 Because it's going to go back to what the lawyers say relative to cruel and unusual. That's the one thing you always have to return to. So by virtue of the fact that you screw up and that your state has now screwed up a couple of times, using the same administration, that's a problem for you guys. And now there's an investigation that's being involved. As a matter of fact, the people, and I sent this to you last night, brother, a big shout out to our buddy, Lauren Conlon. These documents, they have filed. They have filed There is a filing that says they want to state the state is required to hang on to all evidence in this case of this procedure. And let me tell you something. All those things that were in the dark before are now going

43:53 to come into the light because there will be a hearing and we'll begin to hear about this procedure. We're going to find out who actually did this. I think we will. What their level of training or lack thereof is. and also to try to understand whoever it is that's managing this train wreck, they're going to be questioned as well, and they're going to have to stand and deliver with answers because this is a big problem for folks that follow these sorts of cases and that are in support of capital punishment and want this to continue on. This is not too hard, brother.

44:34 All right? You're ending a life.

44:36 Yeah.

44:36 Okay?

44:37 Wouldn't think.

44:37 And it seems as though the more humane we try to make this, the more complex it becomes. Because every time you turn around, there's some kind of other filing that comes up about cruel and unusual. The elements that are involved in the so-called cocktails that are out there. Well, now this is not a cocktail. This is a standalone cocktail.

45:02 standalone medication that is being used and is not being... I'm not saying that the drug didn't work, okay? If this delivery... And just go with me here. Anatomically, you know, when our friends in the medical community set up an IV, okay, they're going for a vessel, all right? They're going for a vein, all right? So they want to deliver it in there. This is generally... It's kind of shallow, all right?

45:33 You know, when you're inserting, if you ever watch, and some people, they have a hard time watching an IV being inserted into them or into somebody else, and I completely understand. But if you watch, when this thing is approached by these clinicians, it's done in kind of a shallow manner, okay? You're not going like that, okay? So there's a couple things that can happen. Either you think you've hit the vein and you missed it and it has gone into what's referred to as the interstitial tissue, which is that tissue that kind of surrounds the vessel.

46:12 And that could be like the sub-Q fat. And there's a couple of ways that medications are delivered. You can go sub-Q, which means if you think about somebody that does insulin injections, they go into their stomach. That's a sub-Q delivery, all right? So, you're delivering it that way. You can go IM, which is intramuscular, all right? And then you can go.

46:43 IV, okay?

46:45 Well, preferably here, if you're setting up an IV, it should go into a.

46:51 Vessel, all right? They missed.

46:54 So, if we are to believe the reports that we're hearing about Pike, she's saying that that it feels like her arm is going to explode. Well, I understand why it feels that way, okay?

47:07 Because if you've got.

47:09 This needle, this delivery system that is set up in this area, and you've got the medication, I don't know if they push like saline before that, because sometimes they'll do that. You've got this going into this area that is not supposed to accommodate this kind of aqueous delivery, right? And so you're going to respond in pain, right? There'll be a painful stimuli there. And she is reported to have been complaining about that prior to. Well, they do the initial delivery on this thing. And it is a lethal dose of pentobarbital that do anything. except it drives her into the state of unconsciousness where she is now breathing heavy and snoring. Well, that tells you, particularly given what is going on, if she is snoring at this point,

48:16 she's drifting off probably toward coma at that point. When she doesn't die, they push another round. Well, now you're driving her deeper and deeper. The pentobarbital, what it does is that it works in two ways. First off, you've got what happens with the lungs is referred to as pulmonary edema. And that means that fluid builds up in the lungs, which.

48:44 Is lethal.

48:46 Lungs become highly congested. If you autopsy somebody that has died of this, their lungs are going to weigh more than they normally would, okay? And that's a sign of the congestion. Now, the other thing that kicks in here is that by virtue of the fact of the nature of this drug and the uptake of the drug, it impacts the brain, right? So it pushes you deeper and deeper and deeper. And so that center in the brain that controls our autonomic nervous system It begins. to slowly dim, dim, dim.

49:23 They're in a coma. And then finally, respiration ceases. That's the action of this thing. Well, back to your comment, brother. And I understand why you're frustrated. I truly do. Life-saving measures, right? So why wouldn't you just leave her on the table and not call an ambulance, put her in the ambulance, take her to the hospital? The people at the hospital are not there to kill people. They are there to save lives. You don't get a second choice here. That's what people at hospitals do. They try to save life, preserve life, and God bless them.

50:08 We love them.

50:09 And so when they're, you know, they're not part of the execution team. That was the responsibility of, well, first off, the state of Tennessee, but this medical person they've appointed over this. And they failed miserably under these circumstances. And this individual that is kind of lording over all of this, he's a physician. Well, what do physicians have to do?

50:36 They have to take the Hippocratic Oath, you know. So what does that mean? They ain't going to kill anybody.

50:42 All right. So that leaves it up to correctional personnel. All right.

50:48 So people understand that it's the corrections personnel that are actually doing the killing. People say, you know, they'll ask me about, and I'd love to use this example in.

51:02 My teaching.

51:05 When I'm talking about the manners of death, I'll ask them, you know, I'll ask my students, you know, What classification do you put an execution in?

51:11 You know, there's only five manners of death. Is it suicide? Is it accident? Was it undetermined? Was it a natural? It's homicide.

51:22 Now, that's not a judgment. It's just clinically, it's one human being bringing about the death of another. They weren't set up for it. Whatever it is, I don't know. You know, all those windows and those markers that they had to go through, they had 30 days, Dave, to get ready for this. 30 days.

51:39 Here's what you do, friends, in Tennessee. Go ahead and check Krista Pike out of intensive care. Move her back to the prison in her old cell. Lay her down on that bed and leave her there. When she can get up and feed herself, fine. But if she can't, then she dies and sentence carried out. She should have never been removed from that room.

52:06 She should have.

52:07 based on past precedent of failed executions in the past, the individual was allowed to die, the sentence was carried out, and had they not performed life-saving measures, Joseph Scott Morgan, Krista Pike would probably be dead on that day, and we wouldn't be doing this right now. So the state failed Colleen Slimmer's family again.

52:30 Again, yeah.

52:31 This is the problem that we're faced with with death this procedure, and it doesn't matter what state it's in, you know, we're hammering on Tennessee right now and they deserve it. They need to be taken out of the woodshed.

52:43 All right.

52:44 Because this is created a problem that is, it goes further than, it goes further than the state of Tennessee. Any state that still uses the death, the death penalty, all eyes are on, on, on their procedures now. And we say that all the time. you know, that everybody's going to revisit things. You hear, and that's kind of political speak, media speak, that sort of stuff. In this particular circumstance, though, this is a real, this is going to be a real, you want a real conversation, you about to have a real conversation about this. Because everybody that is against capital punishment is going to say, see, told you, told you, this is what happens. This is cruel and unusual. And it's because the thing is so

53:30 complex now. That's what this goes to. too many cooks in the kitchen, if you will. And it is desperately problematic, I think, for everybody that's out there that would want to see capital punishment done in a humane way. And it's because it has gotten so very complex, at least that's my opinion regarding these events, lo these many days that have passed. And as of this conversation we're having, Chris Pike is still with us. But there remains an empty chair. And that empty chair was once occupied by Colleen Slimmer. Colleen Slimmer is gone. She was tortured. She was harassed, harangued, threatened. She had a pentagram carved into her chest. A meat cleaver was used. And oh, the piece de resistance. Her head was caved in with a

54:48 block of asphalt. That's how Colleen's life ended. In that filthy, dirty property back there by that steam plant. God bless her mother.

55:03 I'm Joseph Scott Morgan.

55:05 And this is Body Bags.