Crescent City: Hel and Aidas Deep Dive

0:00 Have you come to ask for help? Help them? She knew exactly who to call. She knew which world to access. She knew how to access it. This does not seem, at least to me, like it was a first time encounter. It truly never occurred to me that the factions might be between the Princess. That makes way more sense.

0:31 So sorry guys, I told Ronnie I had a banter topic. So now she's eagerly waiting to hear what the banter topic is. Have you watched or heard of Off Campus? I never hear of anything TV related until you tell me to be clear, but I did see it in the discord this week as it retains to heated rivalry relations. This is why I'm so excited because this is actually a timely relevant banter topic because I'm pretty sure this show came out on Friday.

0:58 Maybe I don't know what day of the week it came out last week. It's Sunday. We're like on top of it, which is pretty good. I put this timeline on Instagram but basically same as you. Friday morning I woke up having no idea what off campus was and then someone pinged about it in the discord and I was like I'm bored.

1:13 I'll look up the trailer for off campus. I was like, I think I want to watch this. Should I look it up right now? You should like it up right now. But Derek was playing a show. Not only was Derek playing a show, Derek was playing a show from 10:00 PM to 2:00 AM, which you know, I'm not going to go to.

1:29 There's no way I'm going to that. Sorry babe, love you. I'm not going to that show. So I was like, yeah, I have a whole night. I have a whole night to myself. I'm going to watch this show. I watched 5 episodes in a row of Off Campus. I cannot remember the last time I watched 5 episodes in a row of. Anything.

1:47 Oh, another hockey situation. OK, so it is a hockey situation. It's a very different hockey situation. This is straight hockey, not gay hockey, which, you know, it's so far it's a pretty straight show. Have finished it at this point in time. I loved it. I loved this show. So good. Like, OK, so I guess it's based on a series of books.

2:10 I haven't read the books. I guess I should just put that out there. Like, I don't, I don't know these books, but the men in this show, the hockey team in this show. Houston is in this show. Josh Houston is in this show. Josh Houston, our listeners will probably know as the man who is rumored to be playing Zaden.

2:28 I got to say, Josh Houston plays a real asshole in this show. So I'm kind of like, oh, I kind of hope he's not playing Zaden. Josh Houston is in it like the, I guess the main characters are a hockey team. Like my understanding of this series is that there's these four guys who are on a hockey team and I think there's four books and each one of them is basically like their love stories, basically.

2:51 I love these men. I love the relationships they have with each other. I love the friendships they have with each other. Like I love the emotional maturity of these men. And of course, they're all supposed to be in college. And this is the same thing I had with. Zeta, remember when we read 4th Wing and I was like, this man is 42, This man is not 20.

3:08 Like he does not have the emotional maturity of a 20 year old. But it's the same thing where it's like their friendships are like so much deeper than what I would think of as 20 year old male friendships. Like they talk about real shit. They still struggle. Like they absolutely still struggle with opening up to each other. But I'm just like, Oh my God, like these boys. These boys are so so.

3:30 Good and the same thing. There's like basically two female main characters and their friendship is so sweet and like the romance is great, but I'm like, Oh my God, the friendships on this show. Yeah, so good. Love them. So I highly recommend if you haven't watched it, you should watch it. It's really fun. You specifically I think would like it. I don't know if you have time to watch it, but you know it's really fun.

3:52 Hold that one. Why not? I'll watch. I'll watch during Slice Sunday. Tonight, slice and salad. Exactly, I will say Derek had no interest in watching it when I showed him the trailer, so I'm not sure if Connor's going to be all about it, but he might be. I actually feel like Connor is way more romance.

4:09 He inclined he got hooked by heated rivalry, I will say. Yeah. Well, so did Derek. I mean, heated rivalry really grips you. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Oh, sorry, I forgot. This is a podcast. Yeah, Abby was clenching her fists. Yeah, he also gets hooked by like, like romance reality TV shows. So I feel like there's hope in that regard to I'm trying to think what else romancey he gets.

4:36 He got hooked on. I mean Wuthering Heights, honestly. Got Derek hated Wuthering Heights, so yeah. Oh yeah. I think Connor could like it. He could like. And I'd actually love Connor to watch it because I'd love to hear Connor's take on it. Like, what I actually loved about this is these are guys on a hockey team and they talk about their hockey, but like, they never talk about sports.

4:58 Like, you know how guys are always talking about sports? There's only one conversation, a guy having a conversation with another guy about sports. And it's actually supposed to show how distant they are and how unconnected they are. And I was like, I actually love that they put this in here. This is fucking brilliant because guys talking about sports is such a true. So well done.

5:14 Well done. Yeah. Cool. It's good. It's good. I have a I feel like I have a lot to just like, catch up on on the world, like in, in the television realm. Like I haven't, yeah. I haven't even started thinking about when I'm going to see The Devil Wears Prada too. I've heard is actually I've I don't know. I've heard mixed things.

5:35 I've heard I've heard mixed things too. I'm certainly not as good as the first, which like to be clear, the first has such a high bar. It's like one of the most iconic ROM com. Would we call it a ROM com? I mean, I guess it's not ROM, but it's certainly COM. Certainly COM, but I'm not sure I'd call it ROM like.

5:54 I would say the romance is third string at best in that movie. But I feel like the ROM is with herself. A self ROM com. Yeah, but it has like I would put it in the bucket of like it's a feel good. I'm watching something for feel good purposes. Girl power. A movie about choosing a career to work for the most toxic person ever ever.

6:16 A boy who loves you. Yes, that is a feel good movie. I guess in the end she does leave her but. I am who I am isn't making sure that anyways. No, Leave it in. Leave it in all right, what I was going to bring up, and I do think this is fair on our TV topic is the 4th wing was just announced officially a go at Amazon Prime, which is also part of why I washed off campus because I was like, how do they do?

6:45 Yes, we're very excited about it. I actually didn't even realize it wasn't officially a go. And then I was like, I guess this was like a maybe situation having washed off campus. I think Amazon Prime could actually do a really good job with this. Like I'm, I'm really excited about it. OK. Do you know boys of Tamen, has that come across your like algorithm?

7:02 That was exactly what I was about to bring up. I'm very nervous, OK? Do you watch it? Do you do? Did you read it? I haven't read it but I did scroll like furiously scroll the comments on the casting announcements like on TikTok on Instagram and people are mixed at best. I would say not happy about the male castings.

7:23 And I am of the opinion. I'm allowed to express my opinions. I think I'm of the opinion. Is our podcast. We all need to chill the fuck out. Like we all need to calm the fuck down. I think especially, especially with forthright right, like I think we've gotten heated rivalry. We've gotten off campus.

7:42 I think they've both been huge with for the romance genre, right? I agree. We are out here champing at the bit for these shows to be made right. If we are out here like being like, Oh my God, we want a fourth wing show. We love it, we want it. We cannot freak out about casting without seeing the show, right?

7:58 Like that's just that's just my mindset at this point that it's like we cannot both be we need this show, we need this show, we need this show. And then as soon as the cast is announced be like, what the fuck? This isn't how I saw it in my head. Right. Like I agree with you, and I also think many people who who have read 4th Wing have either had a reignited love for reading or they are just finding their love for reading. And I think like you and I and many people who are listening to us and many people who have read 4th Wing have been reading books that have been adapted for a long time. And like you, the people who have been doing that, myself included, have seen actors who when you look at them, you're like, OK, like wouldn't have

8:41 been my like, not how I envisioned them in my head. You, you like, see them bring it. Like, you see them embody the characters in a way that maybe you wouldn't have necessarily picked. But like, it is an adaptation. I like. I hate to keep coming back to Harry Potter, but Harry Potter was one for me. I was like, this is not.

8:57 This is not how I imagine the characters in my brain. I think they did a nice job like they did a nice job. They took on a new persona of that character for me, for me. I think this is actually so funny. I had I had this crazy self ROM experience so to speak like a self moment of reflection. Someone commented someone commented on our Nesta deep dive like this was from so long ago, but someone commented on it and was like, I could really see Emilia Clarke playing Nesta, who of course played Daenerys Targaryen. But I have I had completely like for a moment I was like Emilia Clarke, she's so sweet, she's so bubbly. I don't know that she could pull that off completely forgetting that she had played Daenerys

9:39 Kurt Targaryen, mother of Dragons, like completely forgetting it. And this is when I'm like, OK, we need to trust the casting process because I would never like the Emilia Clarke. Like we see now the Emilia Clarke on Instagram. It's like you don't look at that and think Mother of Dragons, but she fucking brought it.

9:56 She was so good, right? So like, anyway, that's my slight rant for the day. I just think we all got to got to trust we I am just I'm going to be very disappointed. The 4th wing casting announcements are met with just like, that's not sated, that's not violent, you know, like just think, just think we should all. Like I will, I'm going to get crucified. I know that I'm going to get crucified. Don't come for me.

10:23 I know you're going to. But like I, I can see Josh Houston personally, I can see it. I can see after Dune that show the show I didn't watch it. They would like to watch it. I can see it with some, with some good acting and a good opposite. I could see it like actors. There's a reason they're actors.

10:45 I'll say that I agree like this. Is what I'm saying. If it is Josh Houston, do I personally think Josh Houston would be better for Bodie than for Zaidan? Absolutely. On looks alone, of course yes. But if it is. Josh Houston also on other things to be clear also also his also the way that he acts I think. Well, yeah, now that I've seen him, now that I've seen him in of campus, I'm like, what is the name? He could be off.

11:07 Campus. He would be like great whiny bitchy Bodie. That is essentially the character he's playing. That's like he's that is basically it is basically an audition reel for Bodie. But love that. Also, guys, sorry if you haven't read 4th Wing and you're just here for Crescent City. Sorry, we're talking about Fourth Wing so much.

11:26 They do cast him. I trust that there's vision and that there's a reason for it, right. I just I'm going to trust the professionals to do their job here. That's just I guess the the thesis of what I'm trying to say. But with that, hi, I'm Abby, I'm Ronnie. This is Drag is in the Details, the podcast that helps you better understand your favorite fantasy books through a series of deep dive episodes. This season we are on our third deep dive of this season. We are covering Crescent City.

12:00 This episode will contain Crescent City and ACOTAR spoilers. This episode is being published in May 2026. So that is all 5 ACOTAR books that have been published so far. We are not in actor 6-7 or eight territory yet. If you are there, if you are listening from the future, I hope the books are good.

12:19 All right, second disclaimer. This podcast is rated R. These are spicy books. We curse. We are spicy people. If you want to listen to your with your children, feel free, but you have been warned. Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are diving into the world of hell and it's cutest Kitty. That's cute, Prince Ada.

12:42 We come with receipts. We have quotes to back up our theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical. Ron, do you want to make any announcements? Yes, as always, deep Dive music is brought to you by Shwoodly that is a real artist. You can find him on Spotify. So if you like our deep dive Jingle, check him out on Spotify. We have a new thing we're doing this season with our fun questions.

13:07 So you might know in our episode outlines, we always ask a fun question before we get started coming up with those questions. Hard work. So that's your job now? So we're lazy guys. Yeah, we love to outsource. So if you if you would like us to read your fun question on air, please submit your fun question to us via TikTok or Instagram DM or in the contact form on our website thatsdragonsinthedetails.com. And we'll read your fun question on an episode. We do try to keep them thematic.

13:39 So it would be good if you could make your fun question somewhat related to Crescent City at Qatar. If it's just about us, like we'll answer, we'll answer you, but we're not going to we're not going to answer it as a fun question because we're trying to keep these topical. So fun questions, submit those. We want to read them.

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14:35 So even if you do not listen to us on Apple podcast, if you wouldn't mind throwing us a star rating, doesn't matter how many stars it is, it can truly be any but and you don't need to lead a written review. You can just, you can just do the star rating. That would be hugely helpful. We would greatly appreciate it if you, if you like us.

14:51 If you don't, it's fine too. So thanks in advance back to you. All right, fun question. So this is from Violet the emoji. The question is which house would you want to be in and which house would you actually be in? I am assuming these are Crescent City houses. Yes, Crescent City houses. That was my that was my assumption by let the emoji. You did not specify, but we assumed that was the case when we answered.

15:19 I mean, typically this is a question about Hogwarts houses, but this is the Crescent City. Yeah. Also, I think, I mean, we have a mostly mass first page at this point. So it would be kind of, I would be surprised actually, if somebody were asking about our Hogwarts house, to be honest with you. Oh my God, but this does this does remind me quick aside slash cause of apologies. So the last last episode I believe we had a question about would we rather go dancing at Rita's, go to the White Raven or go to the Yule Ball?

15:50 Yes. So Swizzy, who was the originator of this question, did write it to us and said, oh crap, I meant the Yule Mass Ball, not the Yule Ball, which we probably should have. Hot is a slight throne of glass spoiler that there's something called a Yule Mass Ball. My answer remains unchanged, though I would still rather go to readers of those 3, but I just wanted to call that out.

16:10 So thank you, Swizzy, for letting that be known that it was not meant to be a Harry Potter reference. That that's our bad too. We probably should have. Called. That does make more sense. The Eulness ball makes more sense. I might. Certainly makes more sense. I would attend the Eulness ball. If I were invited, yeah, sounds fun. I can see Rory's butt.

16:28 It's very cute right now. All right, do you want to start with this fun question? I can I can start. OK, So the questions are the questions are what would I want to be in and what would I actually be in? I would want to be and to be clear, they are different because my what I want to be is actually different from who I know that I am. So I'll just start there.

16:51 But I would want to be in Earth and blood, definitely. I just want to be in earth and blood all to all the people I like I feel like are in earth, earth and blood. But I know that in my heart of hearts I'm in probably flame and shadow, maybe sky and breath on my best day. I think that's the case. I always thought it was interesting that the shifters and the fae are in different houses, right? Given that at the end of the day they are actually the same thing, it was thought that was interesting. I agree with you.

17:21 We would both actually be in flame and shadow. The difference is my answer is I would also want to be in flame and shadow. That's actually the house I'd want to be in. I don't want to be with the shifters. I think the shifters are fucking cool. Oh, the Wolf Pack sucks. They suck. But Lydia? I don't think she's hanging out at the house, Judge, but yeah.

17:40 I mean, she could also. She could feasibly end up in flame and shadow, but we'll see. She could. Yeah, I could. See her in Flame and Shadow. Yeah, I would want to be in Flame and shadow, just hanging out at the bar listening to Jazz with Jezza Buzz. Just what I would want to be doing anyway. So it's just going to be Flame and Shadow for me.

17:57 Unfortunately, we're not going to be doing that because she's gone this booktube. Booktube, sure. All right, that was a fun one. Thank you. Violet, the emoji. All right, Ronnie, do you have any? I do have a couple of casums. 1 is from Jen Lee so I'll paraphrase the comment but started the comment with random thoughts sparked by today's episode. Mention of if the autumn King is actually star born and the question was basically is the Autumn King rooms biological father?

18:27 What if Lauren was discovered by the autumn King when she was already pregnant? And this kind of goes back to like several several episodes. I feel like at this point in our actor season, we have talked about the possibility of was Lauren one was Lauren from Perthian 2 was Lauren Reese's sister potentially 3? Was Lauren somehow on this like starborn trading ring, like marital trading ring where she was being sold out basically as an asset to the Autumn King?

18:58 And could she have been already already pregnant somehow from Perthian, in which case she would have been a very, very valuable asset to the Autumn King. I think it's interesting in going back and searching for anything supporting this, which admittedly we've already we've talked at length about this. I've kind of looked for a lot of evidence already found like very minor things like she puts out citrus. Richard Reese's sent his citrus and and salt. But I did find one thing that's interesting and I'm sure we'll talk about it more later.

19:27 But this is in my opinion, one of the strongest things that I have found for maybe Lauren is actually related to Reese and that is in House of Earth and Blood Chapter 52 Runes. Shadows swirled at his shoulders like a phantom pair of wings. Oh fuck. Reese's shadows have done exact like Reese's has had phantom wings under the mountain before, right? Like that is very much like that's that's how Reese's wings kind of like fade in and out of existence is is through through phantom shadows.

19:58 So I like it. So wait, I have two questions. Who would the father? Be anybody on Perthian. Anyone anyone. OK I I saw someone suggest Azrael was ruins father which I think would be. So what I like because of of Azrael's reaction to Celine looking like Reese's sister. I like it for that reason. The reason that I don't like it is because Rune's shadows are like Reese's and Azrael shadows are like Cormacs.

20:27 So if rune shadows looked like Azrael's, I'd be like, done, done, deal. Like, yeah, that works, we're done. But right now I I feel more, I'm getting more and more convinced that Lauren is a close relative of Reese's. Yeah, it's it's one of those theories that feel so far fetched, like so many things would have to happen for that to be the case, right?

20:52 Like Tamlin would have to be involved. We would need a portal open to Midgard. Like so much would have to happen. And then you read a line like the wings line, and you're like, Sarah, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? Because like, we know that that rune is a descendant of Plano, but like, that has nothing to do with wings.

21:11 That doesn't account for wings. So like, nowhere. What's happening Room? Shadows swirled at his shoulders like a phantom pair of wings. Everyone, that's the take away. Yeah, it's exactly the same. So gently. It's exactly the same. I don't know, but I like it. I don't know. I don't know. It's feeling. It's feeling hard to avoid.

21:30 Like they look exactly the same and room suddenly has phantom wings. And I think we're going to talk about that much more in our room, yeah. We'll talk more about it. Second, second cosm. It is not attributable to any one individual necessarily, but I we got a bunch of comments on the prism stuff from last episodes when Bryce's Starlight goes through a prism and it fans out and it does not look the way that Starlight would look.

21:53 A lot of people commented about lasers and is this how lasers behave? I want to respond to those comments. Not really a monochromatic laser. Sorry. Quick science lesson again, it's not really how a laser behaves. A monochromatic laser would just bend in a prism, right? So it would just change direction and it would not split into multiple colors. And a broadband laser like a white laser, which is what Bryce's looks like, would fan out into a spectrum like like sunlight would.

22:27 But Anastasia AKA puzzle bat no puzzle bat Anastasia on Discord made a really fun video off the back of our theory on her TikTok profile, which is at 7th level of hell classic on how it is possible. There's no, there's nothing in like our real life in terms of light that behaves the way that Bryce's light behave through that prison, right?

22:54 Like there's no, there's nothing in in our real world that does that. But she made a video basically speculating that that could be like that behavior could be related to exotic matter, which is theoretical. And it's also required for the creation of wormholes. And wormholes are a lot like winnowing and or world walking, which would be really interesting.

23:15 So I would recommend checking out Anastasia's video on TikTok. 7th level of hell is her profile and it's very fun. But that's not what lasers do. So that is my second second shout out So. Shout out to Anastasia. Anastasia also sent me this sticker. I just want to show you I have one for you too.

23:35 I have a lot of stickers from Anastasia right here actually. So thank you, Anastasia. Thank you, Anastasia. I love that, love it. I have no notes. I got so great, right? So I had because I don't have a specific person, because a lot of people commented this, This was about, I can't remember what episode it was, whether it was like our re recheck in or if it was our star born episode.

23:57 But we were talking about the fact that Pelleas, I think it was our star born episode, the fact that Pelleas can wield touch the star sword and kills that with the star sword. That is what we are told. We have been told that by the Princess of hell. We have also been told that by you Steri and the history books. A lot of people wrote in saying, oh, maybe Pelleas can wield the Star sword because he got starborn power from Thea when they were having sex.

24:24 The way we've seen with Hunt and Bryce and the way we think we've seen with Cassie and Ernesta. First of all, guys, I totally love dot connecting. That's what we're here for. So great. I love it. Keep it up. However, similar to Ronnie, Ronnie with Ronnie, just stick with the lasers. I don't think it works in this case for a couple reasons.

24:44 So I have actually gone back and scoured the books and I have not been able to find, if you can find, please let me know, please post it. I have not actually been able to find any reference. Helius and Thea being lovers is implied because in ACOTAR, well, in Silver Flames, basically when they're explaining the history of Theon.

25:04 Also, I know there's a lot of ways to say Theon. I'm going to keep saying it this way guys, because all of you are telling me different ways to say it and at this point you know who I'm talking about, so it's going to be Theon. Apologies. They say that he was betrayed by his queen and his general. So like think the implication from that is that like Saya cheated on him, but it's never said and it's never said in Crescent City that Saya and Pelleas were lover. So I don't know if that's actually in the books or if that's one of those things that has just kind of like gained traction online.

25:35 I'm not sure. But even if they were lovers, they're currently fighting on 2 opposite sides of the war. I doubt they're having sex during that. And I've always been under the impression, and this might be a little more loosey goosey than than hard receipts, that any kind of sex transfer of powers is like a temporary thing.

25:57 I never got the impression that that was like a long term like oh that can last forever. Like Hunt specifically says he can wear the mask because him and Bryce had had sex the night before and she had transferred those powers over to him. Like, it's not like, oh, I've been hooking up with Bryce.

26:11 So I'm becoming like, more and more Starborn, Right? Yeah. So I don't think it works for this one. They do love the theor Isaac. And I do think we still have mysteries to uncover here with the whole Paleocinthea thing. And we definitely will talk about it more. Yeah, totally. I mean, to be fair that my immediate thought was like, was he having sex with anyone star born yet?

26:34 Because we know that he allegedly eventually did with Helena, right? Like that was supposed to have happened and it is. I mean, again, like I I went and looked to like it's never said that Thea like slept with Pelleus at any point, but they did betray Theon together. So yeah, I don't know, maybe, but it feels very unlikely.

26:59 It feels unlikely that Helena and Paleus were having sex because like it was very clear that he was like raping her. So I don't know. I do feel like unless he was raping her. Which? I don't know. Thea's. Thea's, like, warns them. Yeah, Thea, like, warns them, right. It's like, and she's like, you guys have to go back to Midgard because Paleus wants to force children on you. Basically it.

27:20 Feels more likely that he got he got it from somewhere else. But then again, it like the whole thing is the Asteri are not supposed to be able to control the star Sword the way that Thea's line can. That's the whole thing. So yeah, I don't know. I have the same questions and I think we will going to do, we're going to do many episodes.

27:40 We're going to do a dust court, quote UN quote episode. We're going to do star sword episodes. We will keep talking about this. This is not the end. Yeah, great. Are we deep dive? Let's deep dive. 222 all right. We did get a specific request for old time's sake that one of us moxing the deep dive.

28:04 You got it, You got it. So glad that you did. Ronnie. Let's start off Broad here. What do we know about hell? OK, so Hell is a planet with seven different levels ruled by 7 Princess. So we've we learn very early it's common knowledge that that this is a different place with several 7 levels and seven Princess. It's not common knowledge that's a planet though, which is interesting.

28:34 So in House of Earth and Blood chapter 12, we learn from Hunt when he's talking about demons. They came in endless breeds and levels of intelligence, ranging from the beasts that resembled feline canine hybrids to the humanoid shape shifting Princess who ruled over Hell's seven territories, each one darker than the last. The hollow, the trench, the Canyon, the ravine, the chasm, the abyss, and worst of them all, the pit. So those are the seven levels of hell. And then there's humanoid shape shifting Princess who rule over all of them.

29:06 Hell is a planet and and we learned that through Atis and it's not common like Hunt and Bryce learn it, which which means like Hunt of all people would know that before if it was common knowledge. So in House of Earth and Blood chapter 51, Adis is saying the Northern Rift opens to other places. Other realms, yes, but other planets as well. What is Hell but a distant planet, bound to yours by a ripple in space and time.

29:32 Hell is a planet, Hunt. Hunt's brows lowered. Most of the demons he'd killed and dealt with hadn't been able to or inclined to speak. It is shrugged with one shoulder. It is as real a place as Midgard, though most of us would have you believe it wasn't so for whatever reason. The Princess and others other demons of hell are not super inclined for folks to know on Midgard that it's it's real, but it's it is also says.

29:58 The Northern Rift opens to other places. Other realms, yes, but other planets as well. What's a realm? What's a realm? What are we talking about? What is that? I don't know. Yeah, all right. Like difference between realm and planet. No, no. I mean, the only thing I could think of is like the the death realm, but I don't know.

30:20 We'll see. But even that is. Very intriguing. Yeah, right. I think there's also like the space-time concepts like our realms, like truly other, like fully other places. Whereas planets are like we're we're still talking solar systems here, like Midgard solar system has seven planets and there are other star systems that we see in like the Orais where it's just like other planets just are around and we can just like see other planets or realm something more like there's rifts in space-time that you can travel to that you might not be able to just travel to through space as possible.

30:56 What's interesting though, is that like beneath, for whatever reason, is described as a realm. Why, why don't know, I don't know. All right, so that's a fun aside. Another fun aside is that Atis also, when asked whether he's rattling the northern rift says that the lesser Princess do that levels one through 4.

31:20 But those of us in the true dark have no need or interest in sunshine. Our plans don't involve such things. So he's basically saying, all right, these like these lesser Princess who are closer to the surface, closer to sunshine, might rattle the rift, might care enough to do so. But we don't. We don't do that. We don't participate in that activity, which is interesting. Like I don't know why the the lesser Princess would, but interesting to consider.

31:46 Hell had been framed as the enemy of Midgard for centuries. But we know through like a whole big series of quotes that span the entire book basically that they were actually the enemy of the hysteria and the ally of the creatures that the Hysteria oppressed, specifically the fae and specifically the fae from Prythian. And we'll talk much more about that. But Adis and Thea were mates, and they were ultimately Hell was ultimately the ally of the Midgard Midgardian Fey in all of their endeavors.

32:18 So they were framed as hey, like Hell was waging war against Midgard and we banished them from Midgard. But actually, they were allies too in Midgard, and enemies of the Osteria. We'll talk much more about that. Black Salt allows anyone on Midgard to commune with Hell and other worlds, but we mostly see it related to summoning beings from Hell. So in a couple instances, Bryce uses Black Salt to talk to Hell in one way or another.

32:45 And House of Earth and Blood. She uses Black Salt to summon Atis. And that's chapter 51. The quotes there. She crafted 2 circles with the Obsidian salt. The one near the window is perhaps 5 feet in diameter. The other was big enough to hold herself and hunt. I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but she says the Obsidian salt will. She's faking Hunt out.

33:03 She's saying I'm going to summon a demon. Hunt does not know that she's about to summon Atis because he's not like he's not familiar that she is familiar with Atis and she says the Obsidian salt is going to hold this demon. So we're going to be in this circle, we're going to be protected because the salt is going to protect us, and then that other circle of salt is going to hold the demon.

33:20 Hunt eyed the circle she made then side fine, even though arguing with her was nearly as enticing his foreplay, he didn't feel like wasting time either. But then the temperature in the room began to drop rapidly, and as Hunt's breath began to cloud the air as a humanoid male appeared, throming with dark power that made his stomach royal.

33:38 Bryce grinned up at Hunt as his hard stop dead surprise. She lost her fucking mind. He would kill her for this if they weren't weren't both killed in the next few seconds. Who is that? Ice formed in the room. So also hell is cold. We'll talk more about that, but Hell is freezing. When you summon Hell, things get very cold. No clothing could protect against the cold this demon brought with him.

33:58 It pierced through every layer, snatching the breath from Hunt's chest with clawed fingers. A shuddering inhale was the only sign of Bryce's discomfort as she remained facing the circle on the other side of the room, the male now contained inside its dark border. Atis. She said softly. So black salt summons can summon somebody from hell in a sort of like, not quite all their format, but they also use black salt laced water to basically, like de Mahdi, travel to hell in House of Flame and Shadow.

34:28 That's chapter 57. And Adis actually calls this a dreaming draft. So there's a name for, yeah, this salt laced water that Helena has been using to converse with them for some time. And that discovery, Bryce kind of puts it all together when she sees that the caves are made of black salt, and she sees like a drinking bowl on the ground, she says these faves are made entirely of black salt. Bryce said she'd seen it as soon as the ghoul had gouged lines in the wall, knew its smell, its rotting, oily feel. A taste of it had confirmed her suspicions. Hunt frown.

34:59 You think Helena was trying to summon her sister from their home world? So again, black salt can be used to talk to worlds other than other than hell no. Bryce said, shaking her head. She sent Celine back to be safe. She was an asshole, but she would never have done anything to jeopardize that. So what is this place then?

35:14 Darien said it was Sathya who got it first. It's to summon demons to commune with Hell. Stunned silence rock the room. They were her only remaining allies. Bryce explained that I'm skipping a bit, but Sathya walked to the stream. That water filter straight through the black salt, and this chamber is thick with it. She met Bryce's stare, brows nodding. Can you summon a demon if you drink water laced with black salt?

35:35 And Hunt says, I've never heard of anything like that, even during my demon hunting years. And then they're ruminating a little bit more. And Bryce, Bryce realizes maybe the salt helped her mind speak with hell. Maybe someone in hell can tell us how to kill the hysteria. Polly and himself ate serious. Maybe he's had the answer all along. And then Hunt has a little fit, and Bryce almost has a fit as well.

35:54 But ultimately they decide to drink the salt lace water together. And Bryce lifted the bowl to her lips and drank. Bryce was falling backward and yet not moving. Her body remained kneeling. Get her soul fell, placing over into the dark, into nothing and nowhere, a presence around her beside her, flickering with lightning. Hunt.

36:13 He was with her soul falling alongside her. And then they end up in hell so that black salt laced water allows them to soul travel, soul travel de Mati travel to hell while their body stays in Midgard. You look like you want to. You know what I just realized? Yeah, I I just realized something. I never made this connection before, but you said that they're they're soul traveling basically to hell, right?

36:40 And Hunt is flickering with lightning as he does that, which is so interesting because when Ruin and Lydia talk in whatever they are, but what seems to be like soul to soul, mind to mind, right? Like they also appear as their power. So is there something about this that makes you did Hunt see Bryce in that moment as Starlight right? Like is or is it something about Hunt, about Bryce and Rune specifically that lets them see people as like powers or? Rune also appears as as night though, right? Like as stars and night.

37:10 So unless Lydia has something going on, which I know we kind of both think she does. I mean, I mean, she knows a lot of things. But yeah, I mean, either what? Either way, I think it's an interesting parallel between these two. The mind talking to the Princess and what Rune and Lydia are doing right, I think.

37:30 I mean, these two chapters, this chapter of of Hunt and Bryce going to hell is right next to and, and when they call it a dream world, which we're about to talk about, is literally right next to a chapter in which Lydia says, I want to feel you here. Not in some dream world. Like literally the words dream world are said referring to where Rune and Lydia meet and hell in two chapters next to each other, which Sarah doesn't do that by accident.

37:59 She doesn't do that by accident. Very interesting. It's very interesting. And so this just around out the black salt dreaming draft piece, they find that when they drink the black salt, the way that they travel is basically traveling truly as just their soul, right? So they can't be harmed, right. So they're when when they get there again. This is still House of Flame and Shadow. Chapter 59.

38:27 Hunt lunged, intending to shove the Prince of the Chasm away from his mate. He went right through the demon Prince. Hunt stumbled and lifted his hands. His fingers shimmered faintly with a pale bluish light. Bryce had the same aura around her. They were ghosts here. And then Apollyon later in that paragraph says you will find that you cannot harm us nor we you in such a state and ate us.

38:49 Later in that paragraph says Helena learned that black salt would allow her to commune with us while protecting her mind and her soul. So she's smart cookie. I was she so worried about protection? Is a question, yeah. What were their what were their intentions? We are told directly but that they as trust in hell was her downfall though.

39:10 Yeah. So we're talking about that. It's all that. And then, I mean, we talked about this already, but Adis calls it a dreaming draft. He says the dreaming draft will only last so long. So come into the temple, which is just interesting that they have they have a name for it and the name for it is a dreaming draft because they they go to sleep and then they're dreaming, they go to a dream world. So Bryce describes hell as a dream world, right? She says she didn't need to look to know Hunt stood beside her in whatever this place was, this dream world. And that's interesting, right?

39:40 Because Apollyon visits in dreams, that's what he does. And Rude and Lydia have been meeting in a dream world for quite some time. So just commentary. More on that later, but go ahead. I think there's a question and I don't know if you're about to get into this, but I think there's a question on whether or not we've even actually seen hell or if everything we've seen is is just Polly and conjuring it right?

40:04 Because he conjures parthos, he conjures wherever the fuck him and him and Hunt met in that dream. Like is this just an illusion or is it? Have we actually seen parts of hell? I don't know, but I think. It's a question, I think it's a very fair question because so much of what we see of hell is reminiscent of real things that we've already seen #1 it's totally empty #2 we're told, or I'll just summarize it here and then we'll get into it. We're told that it's where the dead go to rest. But then we also find that that's not really true, right? Because at the end of House in Flame and Shadow Shadow, we learn that there is an actual land resting, and Adis does not know about it.

40:45 He's like, do you think I'd be allowed in? So what is hell, Right? Like what actually is hell? I think it's, I think it's a very fair question. Well believe I didn't prep this, but I believe when Ethan is asking for Connor soul and the Mystic goes down to hell and they're talking to Thanatos, Thanatos said no wolf has like roamed these lands for centuries or millennia right?

41:17 I why would a wolf soul go to hell? I mean it kind of makes sense that it's it hasn't because of what the asteria are doing with the dead and fucking with the dead. But like, does that mean that this wolf souls used to go to hell before they went to whatever that eternal realm is? Like, you know what I'm saying?

41:35 Like what? What is the order of events? What is the path here for a dead? Yeah. Where does it go? So my, my thought there we are told it's a city of the dead and that it's where our dead go to rest. That does not seem to be consistent with what we learned and which is exactly what you just said.

41:48 So when Bryce and Hunter and Hell again still chapter 58 and 59, this is when this is all happening. It's like a city of the dead, Hunt murmur, draping a wing around Bryce. Ada's turned from where he stood at the prowl. This isn't a ship that looks, a boat that looks exactly like the one that goes to the Bone Quarter, except for it's a stag skull with like, greenish light.

42:06 He just turned from where he stood at the prow, holding in his hands a long pole that he'd used to guide them. That's because it is. He gestured with a pale hand to the buildings and temples and avenues. This is where beloved dead come to rest with all the comforts of life around them. But again, we then later see a place of resting in the House of Lamb and shadow.

42:26 Chapter 99 This place was the opposite of where she'd gone during the drop, rather than an endless chasm chasm, which is one of the levels how seems intentional. It was just light, soft golden light, gentle and easy on the gaze. It was warm and restful and she had nowhere else she really wanted to be except.

42:45 And then she thinks about thinks about Hunt. Then she sees Danica, the pack in Lahaba, and she kind of blows a kiss to Lahaba. And then through her tears, she turned back to Jessica. How the second light. And Jessica says it took their power. But what is eternal? What is made of love that can never be destroyed? So this what Bryce sees, she sees Danica, she sees the pack, she sees Lahaba.

43:04 This is the actual place of resting, which again, we just talked about. Ada seems unfamiliar with the place of resting because Bryce tells him about it and he wonders if he will ever be allowed in. So this is a House of flame and shadow. Chapter 101. His smile turned gentler. Thea would be proud of you and of you.

43:19 Bryce said, the only gift she could offer to a Prince of hell. She refrained from saying that they as pride meant shit to her. Though. I think you might get to hear it from her lips one day. Adis angled his head. Bryce had told all of them about what Jessica had claimed, what she'd seen in that land of glowing light.

43:34 You think a Prince of hell, she'll be allowed in? Bryce walked up to him and kissed his cheek. Icy skin met her lips. I think a good male, regardless of where he is from, will always be allowed in. Ada's eyes glowed bright blue with gratitude or longing or love, she didn't know, but the Prince only nodded her then to hunt and walk through the northern rift into the dark.

43:52 So he, like he's asking, would I be allowed in? He's clearly allowed into hell, so it's not like it's not hell. So like my question, my thoughts your exact point on like what is the path of a soul that's dead If the souls of the wolves at one point did go to hell because Santos says like a soul has not been here in some time is hell. Like if they're living in the comforts of life, is hell like a purgatory, like a temporary place of resting for those who have like power?

44:23 Because Jessica's whole point was like it took their power, like the whole second light situation was a destruction of their power. But what is made of love, like their actual, you know, they're like intrinsic being can't be destroyed. So is that what this place of breath and holds? I don't really know.

44:42 Well, it could be too right in classic. Well, OK, so I was doing a little research on Norse mythology for this and I believe in Norse mythology. Sorry if I get this wrong. There's two places of resting. There is hell and there's also Valhalla. And I mean, this fits with heaven and hell in like classic Christianity too, right? Like there's actually two places, but like Valhalla, I think is for the honored dead and hell is for people who die. Like the hell is for warriors basically, right? Hell is for people who, like, die of natural causes. But what's interesting is that I believe Adis uses the exact phrase are honored dead at one point, right? So it kind of implies that that's not what this hell is. It's it doesn't quite line up

45:21 with that mythology. It calls them our beloved, but yeah, our beloved dead. OK, so maybe maybe I'm wrong, but yeah, it could be there's like a heaven and there's a hell or there's a Valhalla and there's a hell that there's like 2 depending on who you are. But the idea that Thea would not end up. It's hard to believe that is what it. Is yeah, it's totally hard.

45:43 Yeah, right. I'm with you. I don't know. Yeah, I totally agree. And then to to your other point on have we actually seen hell? I think that's also a fair question. So there are there are two things about hell that we are actually three things to explicit 1 and explicit in my opinion, about hell that feel like they're actually just conjurings of things that we have seen before, right?

46:07 So when Bryce and Hunt arrive in hell, they arrive in a city, looks like a city that has a river and also has pillars and buildings carved into Black Rock. Sounds like we're we are told that it has a direct comp to the Bone Quarter. Like the boat that that crosses crosses the river to the Bone Quarter.

46:26 Yeah. But it also kind of sounds like the human city, right? Like carved into Black Rock. The city appears to be empty. And the Prince is kind of implied that this is actually because they're just letting them see, letting them see parts of hell. And so this is in House of Lamish. I have such bad allergies. Sorry but I keep itching my nose. I'm currently on a double extra strength dose of generic antihistamines because my skin exploded in hives on Saturday. And I went to the doctor and they're like, we have to reset your entire histamine system.

46:57 So you're going to go out like this crazy high dose of antihistamines. I'm like, Oh my God, so. Clearance, and I don't know what to do right now. So that's appointment Shadow Chapter 58. The black boat that Ada's LED Bryce and Hunt into was a cross between the one that had brought them into a volun and the ones that carry the bodies to the Bone Quarter.

47:14 So again, just like things that we've seen that exist in lieu of stag's head, it was a stag skull at the prow, greenish flame dancing in its eyes as it sailed through The Cave. Eerie green light illuminated Black Rock carved into pillars and buildings, walkways and temples, ancient and empty. Bryce had never seen a place so void of life, so still in the Bone Quarter had a sense of being lived in, albeit by the dead, but here nothing stirred. So a few things here we're we've got the boat obviously, which is of all and in the Bone Quarter have Black Rock carved into pillars and buildings, walkways and temples. That is very hewn city like we've got the green light. That's hell and hell alone in my

47:58 opinion. And then we also have the temple of chaos, which looks exactly like herds temple. So this is in House of land and shadow. Chapter 59. The temple of chaos is a sacred place. A Pauline said sharply. We shall never defile it with violence. And then hunt in his perspective refers to it as a near mirror to temples back home. Indeed, it's layout was identical to the last temple. Haunted stood in towards temples in lieu of the Blackstone altar. At the center of the temple, a bottomless pit was the main focal .5 chairs of carved Blackwood encircled it. But also not.

48:33 This just occurred to me, but it's like counsel of the High Lords too, right? Like they're all sitting around Fountain basically, but like. But it's a black pit. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, same, same thing. Yeah. So I think it's like it's fair to call into question like is something going on from a like Damati perspective that is actually just calling on things that Bryce and Hunt know and recognize that is like making them see a hell that they know a hell that makes them comfortable.

49:04 I don't know. I think it's a fair question because everything that we're seeing is like called to recognition in some other some other way. Yeah, But also, maybe this is just writing. Maybe we're just being told it looks like something else because that's how that's how Sarah is describing it to us.

49:21 Think either one is fair, but I do think it's fishy. I mean, I think it's undeniable that this is meant to make us think of the Hewn City, right? And then it's just a question of chicken and egg, right? Have the Princess of Hell seen the Hewn City? Or was the Hewn City inspired by Hell? Right, Yeah.

49:37 I mean, we will talk about Lord Thanatus guys, not this episode, but we will talk. But not this episode. We will talk about Lord. Bandages. Not this episode, but we will fear not. Yeah, yes. And then really go ahead. Just one more little thing for this, and I wasn't even thinking about it in terms of maybe this not being real, but I only clocked this on my like 5th reread of this passage and I kind of freaked out when I read it.

50:02 So the quote is Bryce pulled truth teller for this is when they're all sitting in the circle, right? Bryce pulled truth teller from the sheath at her side here. At least the blades didn't pull at each other. She has the Star Sword and she has Truth Teller with her, but they're not pulling at each other in Hell.

50:19 Why? I don't know why. I think that's very interesting though. Like is it because none of this is real? Or is there something about hell that calms them, that quiets them? I did very much assume that it's because they weren't physically there, but it is interesting to think about whether it's because, yeah, because hell is where they can just chill out. I don't know.

50:41 Yeah. I mean, it could be because they're not physically there, but Bryce can pull Truth Teller out, you know what I mean? Like it's like she can still touch. It yeah, it is interesting. Anyway, that's all we have to say about that for now. OK, the only other things that I really wanted to call out that we know about Hell is that Hell did have warring factions and they overthrew the Asteri by uniting against them.

51:11 So we learned this when Bryce says and and she's so explicit for us. And I know Hell once had warring factions, but you sorted out your shit and marched as one to kick the Asteria out of hell. A year later you haunted them down across the stars and found them on Midgard. You fought them again and it didn't go well.

51:31 That time you jettison, you got jettison from Midgard and have been trying to creep back through the northern rift ever since. So it's interesting to think about, right? We see Apollyon, Atus, and Thanatos more or less put up a united front at least Pauline and ate a Spanatos seems like kind of a fucking wild card.

51:49 But like they generally seem pretty united. At one point they definitely were not and they did come together and overthrow the Esteri and then make a point to hunt them down after they overthrew them to mid card and lost. Truly never occurred to me that the factions might be between the Princess.

52:11 It's obvious. Like, that makes way more sense. Actually, given all the, like, kind of clues we get, that makes way more sense. It doesn't necessarily. I always assumed there was just like something else on Hell that they were fighting against. But yeah, but this I. Mean it certainly could have been something else, someone else, but like the fact that they united to kick the Astiri out makes it seem like they came together against the Asteri.

52:43 So it was either some other entity entirely that was not the Asteri that they were fight that they were like warring against, or it was each other. And it kind of feels like warring factions would imply that it was each other, which like Thanatos seems like a real. So it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case, especially given there is a hierarchy, right? So like Napoleon is the most powerful, everybody below him, like all the other Princess are meant to like kind of defer to him.

53:11 And I can see the 1st 4 Princess, like you can see that power struggle come up, especially Thanatos being who he is and Prince of the ravine. So I totally agree. What else did you have? I had like a bunch of other just nothing quotes but I can scan them while you you go on. I'll have that much more. I think just a couple things.

53:36 We talked about the Northern Rift. So the demons, demons of hell, are scared of Bryce's Starlight. We are told in Crescent City. One which is quote as Hunt had no words in his head, his heart. As Bryce shoved the burning Starlight into the gate, white light blasted from the gates clear stone. It filled the square, shooting outward for blocks. Demons caught in its path screamed as they were blinded, then fled like they remembered who it had once belonged to. The Starborn Prince had battled their hordes with it. That's what we get in CC-1.

54:09 Oh, yeah. A lot of you guys have said can you start referring to the books by their numbers instead of their names? Because people just completely lose track of their names. I'm going to honor that request because I also completely lose track of the names. So that was Chris and City one. OK. Yeah, you can keep doing it your way.

54:26 It's OK. But that's Chris. City 1 obviously this actually makes no sense. It's on what we learned later right? Because the starboard fae were allied with hell. So why would the demons run from the starboard light unless it is Asteri light is basically like it Just another point in the Asteri direction is what I'm going to say here.

54:47 The other things we learn the asteri have trouble feeding off Hell's magic. So the quote we that have for that is this was in, this is when they're in Hell, and we're going to put Hell in quotation marks now because we're not sure, but the quote is. But how? Hunt asked, fighting past that numbing, blissful chill in his chest. Did you kick the Asteri out of Hell the first time they had trouble feeding off our magic?

55:11 Santos said, a voice that was discussed. And they found our powers rivaled their own. They fled before we could kill them. So for whatever reason, the Asteri can't really feed off Hell's magic, which I thought was interesting. So interesting, which we have not talked about. Maybe we'll talk about in the hunt deep dive in that scene when talking to the Princess has this like blissful colt coming over him that Bryce does not seem to have.

55:34 I don't know if that's like related to him being of hell or something else is going on here. But like he keeps talking about this like chilling numbness may be meant to reflect his emotional state. I don't know. But I thought that was very interesting. And that's pretty much all I have. The only other, Well, we talked about the temple.

55:53 Did you you mentioned that it was a Temple of Chaos. OK. I think it's interesting that this is specifically the Temple of Chaos because I believe Apollyon tells us that he and therefore I'm assuming all these Princess were birthed from Chaos and the Void, right? So I think it's interesting that they both have a temple to her.

56:14 They worship her and she is their mother. And this looks like Urd's temple, right? Like, are we getting set up for Urd and Chaos potentially being the same? I don't know. I did do a little research on to Chaos and we'll talk about that later. But I I think the parallels that are being drawn here are interesting.

56:33 That's all I have. For this, I mean, I think like we'll talk about obviously Apollyon a little bit later, but like Apollyon also claims to have the power of the void and the boss, the void end of chaos. Their powers run in my yeah, right. The fuck is the power of chaos? Right? Like you have a temple for her.

56:50 I have ideas. It's interesting. I'm trying to look at what I'll say. I just have like evidence that Hell was framed basically. So as long as you guys trust me that Hell was framed as enemy of Midgard and then was later proven to be allies to to the Fae, stalwart allies. If we're being specific, then we're good. Cool.

57:16 Yeah. I mean, we spent two whole books getting this story, I think. I think we're guys. I think very. Hard to actually pull evidentiary quotes that are concise or things like that because we learn them over the span of literally 1800 pages, but. Yeah. They they, they were said to be enemies. They're actually allies. And then Hunt is has a little moment where he's like, oh, I'm proud to be a son of hell, which I actually thought was very sweet.

57:40 I know. Very sweet. I thought that was very OK. All right, Abby, what creatures do we know are from hell? All right, so I basically focused on you have questions later guys about the Crystallis and Shepherd reapers. Wait, do we? No, no, we have Crystallis and the Shepherd. So I'm mainly focusing on lower class demons just to set the stage there. All right so we get a a view of kind of the general demons of hell in Crescent City one when they are invading Lunatheon. So the quote we get is months tense shoulders. She knew the horde was as unnerving for him as it was for her.

58:19 Leathery winged horned humanoids that seem to be grunt soldiers. Bone white reptilian beasts that crawled on all fours. Hounds of war skeletal beings with two large jaws stacked with needle like teeth that gleamed with greenish slime. There were more, so many more things that slithered, things that flew, things that surveyed midguard with Milky sightless eyes and bade at the dissipated bloodless.

58:41 I'm sorry, I actually think that quote is from Crescent City 3, but it's whatever. It's still describing the general hordes of hell. Obviously she threw in leathery winged there, right? Like she has to know what she's doing. She also threw in sightless and slithered and so many of these are blind.

58:59 Like I'm going to throw in the worm. I think the worm is definitely fucking from hell. I agree. I agree that it seems like the worm is probably from hell. Yeah, so. So that's kind of our general demons. I'll just go over quickly. The vampires and the daemonaki. I don't think there's that much interesting stuff to talk about there, but we know. So the quote we have for the vampires, Vampires, I don't know how it's said.

59:24 Apologies. The Vamps had worked hard to get people to forget the tiny fact that they'd all come from hell. Lesser demons themselves. That their ancestors had defected in the Seven Prince from their 7 Princess during the first wars and fed the Esteri Imperial legions vital Intel that aided in their victory. Traitors and turncoats who still had held a demon's craving for blood.

59:45 So we are later told by the Princess that the vampires and the Reaper were actually the generals of their armies and that they defected and went to the Esteri. I don't know they were ever really told why though. Told why the reapers followed. The reapers followed because the vampires were their food, right? But I think there's a question as to like, why would the vampires choose to ally with the Esteri over being the generals in the prince's armies?

1:00:08 I think that's an open question. And then Damon Aki were basically told our vainier demon hybrids, for lack of a better word. So the quote we have for that is. Hell was severed from them by time and space, but still accessible through twin sealed portals at the North and South poles, the Northern Rift and Southern Rift respectively, or by idiots who tried to summon demons through salts of varying powers.

1:00:31 It was why the creeps existed in their world at all. Most have been haunted after those long ago wars between realms, But every so often, demons got loosed. Demons got loose, reproduced, usually by force. The results of these horrible unions. The day Manaki was walking, the streets were diluted, weaker incarnations and hybrids of the purebred demons.

1:00:50 And how So? That's pretty icky. There's an entire race of people there, Mount Fanier again out there who are just demon babies by force, which we don't love, and kind of dive deep into the Reapers. Now, did you have anything else before I did that? OK. All right, So the Reapers, I think the Reapers are really interesting.

1:01:12 So we find out in Crescent City 2 that they're originally from hell, right? So the quote we have is need to tell me that there are reapers who can simply defect and serve hell. From whence? Good use of whence? From whence do you think the reapers first came? Who first ruled them? Ruled the vampires? The reapers chose Midgard but I am not surprised some have changed their minds.

1:01:32 So that is I believe the under King speaking to Bryce about the reapers. And then we get confirmation and Crescent City three from the Princess that the reapers and vampires used to be their general. So this is the quote I was alluding to before Sanatose picked up the narrative, resting his helmet on a knee.

1:01:48 The vampires and Reapers had defected to the Asteria. They betrayed us, the cowards. From the shadows behind him, his hounds snarled as if in agreement. They've been our captains and lieutenants for the most part. Our armies were in shambles without them. We needed time to rebuild. So the person vampires were the generals. They defected to the Asteria.

1:02:05 Now they live in Midgard. We find out in how the Reapers fed on and ruled the vampires. And when the vampires defected to this world, the Reapers followed their food source and found other beings on Mid to be a veritable feast. So they have left the vampires to themselves, feeding as they pleased on the rest of the populace.

1:02:22 I think what's so interesting about the reapers? What they eat and how they eat it, right? So we're told that they eat souls, but that is also kind of conflated with First Light, right? So in Crescent City Two we have. Ethan might have continued to lie there hoping some Reaper would come suck the soul from his body had Bryce not rushed over.

1:02:42 This is when Ethan breaks the coffee table and is quite embarrassed about his actions, as he should be. And then in Crescent City 3, we see Sigrid eat the souls of both the Prime and the Astronomer, which is pretty graphic too. So with the Prime we get for Sigrid, we get this is Cigarette literally leaning over her grandfather's body as light flared up through the Prime's mouth, illuminating his hollowed cheeks. And then Sigrid was breathing it in, drinking it in his soul, his first light, right?

1:03:11 So she's literally eating his soul. And then with Anatos we get it has been a long time since Immortal fly buzzed all the way down to hell. I will taste this one soul as I want to sit from them like fine wine. So we have this idea of soul eating. Then with the Prime we have his soul, his first light. And I'm just throwing this out there because this feels very Esteri, right?

1:03:31 And I do think I want to shout out Morgan on this. I think she called this out right? But like we have this idea of kind of creatures from hell consuming first light and we have obviously the Esteri consuming first light. So are they actually kind of competing for resources potentially? Like there's some kind of cosmic battle over resources here going on that we haven't really been clued into right?

1:03:54 So what? They are the reapers. So we have half lives. People called them humans and Vainer who had once been alive, who had faced death and offered their souls to the under king as his private guards and servants instead. The cost to live forever UN aging and unkillable but never again able to sleep, eat, fuck.

1:04:13 Vainer did not mess with them. And we do later see this with Sigrid right? She chooses instead of to be raised as based again by Hyperxia, she chooses to become a Reaper and serve the under king. This just kind of raised a lot of questions to me as to how the under King is able to do this right?

1:04:29 Like how is he able to negotiate that souls can just be given to him? He's a bear away, right? Like he's a bear away. How is he able to do this? I don't understand. They really don't like the star sword, which this is when kind of Bryson Rune learned the power of the star sword. So the quotes we have for that are this is when they've abducted Rune in Crescent City 2. The reapers floated over the sewers, river black robes drifting, Rune unconscious dangle between two of them, the star swords still trapped on him. Either they were too stupid to disarm him or they didn't want to touch it.

1:05:00 One of the reapers drifted closer to Rune as they caught him. The hilt of the star sword brushed against its robes, hissed, recoiling. I think so what's interesting is like these reapers won't even like they don't even want to touch the hilt of the star sword, right? Like the Autumn King will touch it, but he doesn't want to touch it for too long.

1:05:17 Like, I think it's just interesting. And again, we'll get into it, like, who can touch the Star sword and for how long? And like what that implies about them. And then we get, obviously, Bryce kills a Reaper with a star sword. So we get the star sword saying with light, her power flowing into it, activating it. And nothing had ever felt so right, so easy as plunging the blade into the Bony chest of the wounded Reaper. It arced, bellowing, black blood spurting from its withered lips. So obviously this is the first time we see the Star Sword killing the unkillable, so to speak, right? So this is when Bryce kind of realizes what it is. I just think it's interesting that Thea made the Star Sword. Well, we don't really know.

1:05:54 We don't really know, but we are basically told right that Thea made the Star Sword and Truth Teller in the effort of overthrowing the Asteri. But in that in that vein it is also able to kill things from hell right? Like why? Why is it able to kill things from hell if the goal was killing things Asteri related?

1:06:12 Which I think is interesting. And with both the star sword and Ataraxia, when Nestor kills Lanthus, both of these unkillable things have black blood, right? And we know that Vespers had black blood, but other Esteri don't seem to have black blood. But like, what is the link there? What does that signify?

1:06:29 This I thought was kind of crazy. Oh, this is kind of the most wild thing to me that the reapers can do. They are able to activate the gate in the bone quarter, right? So this is when Hunt and Bryce are in the bone quarter fighting the under King. We get the crystal of the dead gate began to glow white, not from her touch but as if the reapers were chanting awakening the dead gate somehow right? We're basically told only like the horn activate the power of the gate and the horn was a trove item made by the Asteri right?

1:07:02 Like Bryce basically blows the horn, Micah blows the horn and that and starboard power again which we think is a starry power is able to activate the gates. Why are these Reapers able to activate the Dead Gate? I agree with you on the gate piece in particular, and I think it has, yeah, something to do with the fact that they are from hell.

1:07:29 Like specifically that they're from hell. And the reason that I think that is because of what we've seen with Synth and its ability to help activate the horn and Hellfire and its ability to activate the horn. I think that there's something and like obviously we'll talk about it later in this episode, but I do think there's something very, very interesting going on with beings of hell and the ability to open gates to other worlds.

1:07:58 And I think the Reapers have like the reapers probably have a leg up or something else going on because they are they do have one foot in one foot out on life in general. And I really want, I really want to draw connections between them and the surreal, but I don't have great other than the black blood. Honestly, I don't have great connections between. No, I tend to agree.

1:08:19 I would, yeah. I would tend to agree. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any other creatures? Well, I did have the death stalkers. There are death stalkers. They're creepy fucking pets of the Prince of the Pit. We learn about them first in House of Sky and Breath. Hunt recognizes them because he has been scarred by one of them before, so he recognizes it's a Death Stalker.

1:08:40 Even the burbling fountain beyond them seem to quiet at the name. What's that? Lethal assassins bred by the Prince of the Pit. He keeps them as pets. Athaler's wings rustled, Had a shadow blast over the sun. I've only dealt with them once. I've got a scar down my back from it and Napoleon kind of acknowledges it later here and it's like, yeah, I'm like, sorry about the scar. I acknowledge that.

1:09:03 You know, my one of my death Stalkers gave that to you. Interestingly, in the final battles, Thanatos is kind of responsible for the Death Stalkers and the army of them and has kind of like not very leashed control over the army of Death Stalkers. I don't think there's really that much honestly to talk about when it comes to the death Stalkers, just that they're another flavor of hound like beings that are actually bred by appalling it, but seem to be controlled by Thanatos. So we'll talk more about then when we talk about Thanatos or I will.

1:09:35 I think the whole the main thing that's still just so crazy about the hell creatures versus Steri creatures is the tight similarities between them. They just like like a Death stalker sounds a lot like a Daglin hound, right? Like in my opinion, like they seem very similar. So is that just writing style? Is that an intentional choice?

1:09:55 No. Yeah, I think the only other thing may be worth mentioning here. And again, we have no real evidence for any of this, but all of the hell like creatures that are creatures of Midgard recognized are in House of Lame and Shadow. And so that begs the question, what is going on with the wraiths, the Draki and the Dragons who are not confirmed creatures of hell, but all have very hell like properties, right? Wraiths are like shadows basically that can inhabit other bodies.

1:10:26 It's very, very Prince of hell life. What's going on with the Draki? Dragons have like the only one of the only types of fire that can harm a Prince of hell. How would you have that if you don't hail from hell? In some regards the Dragons are by the Miss Well Ariatne. It's used by the Mystic to protect against hell.

1:10:44 Now how well she does that I think is a question that is worth asking given what happens. But yeah, and I think it's interesting too with the race because obviously we have race and Qatar, right. So if the race are from hell are dwell and Serge went from hell, right. All right, next question. All right, Ronnie, what is the Crystallos? The Crystallis is a demon from hell with a lot more to it than that, but the Crystallis is a demon from Hell. The physical description of a Crystallis is is kind is actually especially creepy.

1:11:26 The description at least is from House of Earth and Blood chapter 46. Sorry Crescent City 1 Chapter 46. And most of the Crystallis involvement that we get is from Crescent City. One has a grayish near translucent hide. So it's giving like deep hell because near translucent usually is associated with demons that don't see light.

1:11:50 It has clear blood, creepy, a clawed hand and crystalline Talon. So it's called a crystallos because it is it literally looks crystalline, which crystal in this world is a conduit. So that's interesting. Worth noting the crystallosis is blind and it also has clear teeth. So crystalline talons, clear teeth, clear blood, near translucent hide and blind like sightless eyes puts together a very, very creepy picture.

1:12:18 It's venom negates magical abilities. We don't actually learn it when Micah is downed, but it should have given us pause when an Angel was downed and then Bryce survived. Right? That probably should have been a little flag in our brains. But just for context for those who have forgotten because I learned on my reread that I forgot most of what happened.

1:12:41 Crescent said he won he first meet the Crystallos in the very beginning of House and Earth. House of Earth and blood. I'll just like explain the unexplained at that point right? Danica does herself in and everybody around her in through synth and accidentally summons the Cristalos demon because synth has Obsidian salt in it. So the Cristalos is summoned.

1:13:02 We meet the Cristalos demon at that point Bryce sees it, chases it, thinks that the Cristalos demon is responsible for Danica and the pack's death the entire time. But later later we learn, no, it was actually the synth. And the synth, because of its Obsidian salt content, summoned the Crystallis. So let's talk about the Crystallis in more depth. To be fair, real quick, not to besmirch the bit dead, Micah did inject Danica with the synth.

1:13:24 She didn't do it herself, but yes. Yes, Micah did murder Danica by injecting her with synth, and Micah had also been summoning the Cristallis demon to try and hunt down the horn for himself, which we will talk about more as well. Like a bad dude. Glad that Bryce vacuumed him up. Do not miss him.

1:13:42 Was everything in chapter 50 is when we kind of start researching the Cristalos demon or one of the early days when we're researching the Cristal's demon. Have you come across any information about the Cristalos negating magic days later? Hunt, this is Hunt. He couldn't stop thinking about it, how it felt for his power to just sputter and die in his veins.

1:14:03 No, I still haven't found anything about the creation of the Cristalos, except that it was made from the blood of the first star born Prince and the essence of the Star Eater himself. Nothing about it negating magic. Roon nodded at him. You've never come across a demon that can do that? And I'm skipping a bit.

1:14:19 Not one. Which spells and Gorsian stones negate magic? But this was different. He dealt with both before they bound him. Using the witch ink on his brow, they shackled him with manacles hewn from the Gorsian stones of the Dolos Mountains, rare metal whose properties numbed one's access to magic.

1:14:34 Skipping a bit again. Green motion to the ancient book he left on the table days ago, still open to a passage about the Starborn fae. If the Star Eater himself put his essence in the Crystallis, that's probably what gave the demon the ability to eat magic, just as Prince Pelia's blood gave it the ability to look for the horn.

1:14:52 This is early days, right? This is before like we know a thing about a thing. But in this early research, we are learning that Apollyon allegedly creates the Crystallis from Prince Pelia's blood and his own essence to hunt the horn and so that the venom negates magic. And when Bryce later gets the venom removed, because again, Bryce does have an encounter with the Crystallis the night that Danica dies, there is venom in her leg.

1:15:19 She never bothers getting it taken out. Hunt staples her injury shot. He has like a whole guilt trip about it. She never gets it removed because she wants to feel the pain. She and Hunt go to Hyperxia. I don't believe they know it's Hyperxia at the time to get it removed. This is in chapter 61. Again, you got to keep a lot of stuff straight, straight in these fucking books.

1:15:37 It's it's apparent that the venom has actually been feeding on her because it's been in her for so long. So not only has it been kind of suppressing her magic, but it has been feeding on her for the duration that has been in her, which at this point has been almost 2 years, I think like a year and a half or something like that.

1:15:55 With his wound the other night, the poison had not yet taken root. With an injury like yours, deep and old venom is a kind of Organism. It feeds off you. It won't want to go easily, especially after so long meshing itself to your body. I shall have to use my own magic to pull it from your body. And then of course, hypaxia does take the venom out of Rice's body and it's a very sweet scene.

1:16:15 And Hunt kisses her and it's like kind of the beginning of of their romance. This is used to create the antidote. We'll get there when we get there. So again, going back to what Rune tells us about Apollyon breeding the crystallos, we are told that it's bred to track the horn a few times. And one of these sources is from the Faye archives, which is not completely unreliable, right? And I kept kind of waiting actually throughout the entire series for this to be disproven.

1:16:44 It's never actually disproven, which again, what is going on with Pelleus? I think that the Crystallis was bred to find the horn because the Princess of Hell say that their goal was basically to open the Northern rift and they needed the horn to do that. But the idea of it being made from Pelleus's blood I don't think makes any sense.

1:17:05 But maybe you were about to get into. That so in so in Chapter 21 of Crescent City One, the Star Eater himself bred a new horror just to hunt the horn, using some blood he managed to spill from Prince Pelleas on a battlefield in his own terrible essence. Beast, twisted out of the collision of light and darkness, been swiped on his phone, and the next illustration appeared.

1:17:23 This is photos from the Fae Archives. The reason he'd had her come here. He had taken this gamble. Rice recoiled at the grotesque pale body, the clear teeth bared in a roar. You recognize it? Rune said softly. Bryce shook herself as if to bring herself back to reality and rubbed her thigh absently. That's the demon I found attacking the Angel which was Micah in the alley on that night. Hunt gave her a sharp look.

1:17:45 The one that attacked U2? Bryce gave a small affirmative nod. What is it? It dwells in the dark steps of the pit. Rune answered, So lightless that the Star Eater named at the Crystallos for its clear blood and teeth. Athlar said. I've never heard of it. Bryce contemplated the drawing it. There was never mention of a fucking demon in the research I did on the horn. She met us gaze.

1:18:04 No one put this together two years ago. I think it's taken 2 years to put it together. Rune said carefully. This volume was deep in the Fae archives with the stuff that's not allowed to be scanned. None of your research would have ever pulled it up. The entire damn thing was in the old language of the fae and had taken him most of the night to translate.

1:18:23 Throwing in the lingering fog of the mirth root hadn't helped. So this, the artifact that he found that had the detail about the fact that it was made with Prince Peleus's blood was in the old language. Maybe the Autumn King wrote it, in which case, yeah, like, then it would be bullshit. Maybe other, like, misled, misguided Fay wrote it, in which case it could very well be bullshit.

1:18:46 But it was clearly intended to be kept secret. And we do learn that the crystallos is old, like, old as fuck, right? Like has not entered Midgard in a very, very long time. Hunt describes it as a type 6, type 6 demon, meaning like a deep deep demon, and says we're looking for information on something that hasn't entered this world 15,000 years. The fact that no one could idea it suggested might not have made it into many of the history books, and only a handful of those books survived this wrong.

1:19:15 We find evidence of the crystallos in art from 15,000 years ago, but about 100 years post Pelleus, and this art was on a vase from Parthos. The terracotta vase dated back nearly 15,000 years after Prince Pelleus, by about a century, but the crystallis hadn't yet faded from common memory. She read the brief catalog copy and said it's at a gallery in Mercium, which put it a sea and 2000 miles beyond that from Lunathian. She pulled the computer to her and clicked on the thumbnail. But these photos should be enough. A good sign.

1:19:46 Hon pointed at the image rendered in black paint against the burnt orange of the terracotta of a Cristalis demon, roaring as a sword was driven through its head by a helmeted male warrior. She leaned toward the screen. How so that the crystals can be killed the old fashioned way? As far as I can tell, there's no magic or special artifact being used to kill it here, just plain brute force.

1:20:05 That's odd. It says the vase is originally from Parthos. He angled his head. I thought Parthos was a myth, a human fairy tale. I'm skipping a bit. The space was made by a nymph, not some mythical enlightened human. Maybe Parthos hadn't been wiped off the map entirely by that point. So this is again.

1:20:22 Old like pre parthos destruction. So the Crystallis is old again. We still do not have anything ironclad to indicate that it had made with Prince Pelia's blood at this point other than like some old fae bullshit. Because like the fae do believe that Peleus was a starborn Prince. One thing that is interesting though, Rune can track the horn as well right?

1:20:44 Just like the Crystalis, and that is from House of Earth and Blood. Crescent said he won again because Prince Pellius's star Warren power was woven into the horn itself. And it's in my blood. My father thinks I might have some sort of preternatural gift to find it, he admitted. When I was browsing the archives last night, this book jumped out at me, literally.

1:21:04 Bryce asked. Browse High, Rune said. Just felt like it shimmered. I don't fucking know. All I know is I was down there for hours, and then I sensed the book, and when I saw that illustration of the horn, there it was. The crap I translated confirmed it. So the Cristalos can track the horn, Bryce said, eyes glittering.

1:21:20 But so can you. And later, right? He kind of like puts this all together and it's like, oh, I've actually just been drawn to Bryce the whole time, right? Rune has been drawn to Bryce. So something about Rune too? Rune is star born, but that makes sense. I think what doesn't add up to me here is the idea they used Pelleus's blood to make the crystallis to track the horn.

1:21:44 Because by the definition that Adas gave us of Starborn, you have to be a descendant of Thea, and Pelleus cannot be a descendant. Yeah, right. So. And when Pelleus used the horn, he broke it, right? So I guess just thinking out loud here like they could have used it. Maybe it makes sense if it is what we're talking about, what we've been kind of hinting at that Pelleus was gifted some sort of a steri power when he died.

1:22:13 Sorry, he didn't die. I forgot he didn't fucking die when we're told he died on the battlefield. But like, right, if Pelleus was gifted some sort of a steri power and then Apollyon injured him I guess, but didn't kill him, and then that was used to create the Crystalis demon, that makes a little bit of sense I guess.

1:22:31 But like this whole thing, nobody lies on top of lies. There are a lot of lies on top of lies. Something, something had to be true about Pelleus that he was able to even partially wield this horn at all, right? And So what I'm wondering is, was Pellius's blood actually used? And we just like, I just don't have a fully formed theory about like, what the fuck is going on with Pellius's blood? We know something was going on with him because he didn't die #1 and he used the horn.

1:23:04 So like what's going on with Pellius? What's going on? I don't know, I didn't think we'd have so much Peleus chat this episode, but I'm fine with it. I'm here for. And I think he would have had to have used this horn after he was supposed to have been killed because he closed the rift. Yeah, I think so. Right.

1:23:21 So if he like say he was resurrected, say he was brought back and his blood was used. I actually don't know that Pelleus closed the rift at all. We're kind of going down a huge tangent here. Ijalis actually says that Celine or Helena closed the rift, but we can get into that later. We're going to do more Pelleus talk.

1:23:39 We'll figure it out. But anyway this. Story. Story doesn't make sense. Hypaxia reinforces that this is an ancient demon through her tutors, right? She's talking to Rune and Rune is like, you recognize this demon and she's like, I had very old tutors. They required me to study ancient texts. Very old.

1:23:58 Very old whoops and room just kind of like shakes it off. I don't know why he didn't ask more questions at that point. But anyways, back to the removal of the venom, which I definitely want to talk more about, but we'll keep it brief here. Hypaxia uses the Crystallis venom as an antidote for synth, so this, this feels important. Right When Bryce goes to get this removed, Hypaxia says. You said on the phone that you received this wound from a cristalis demon and it was never healed. The venom is still in you, yes.

1:24:29 Bryce said quietly. Hunt hated every bit of pain that laced that word. And you give me permission to use the venom I extract in my experiments as I search for a synth antidote? Bryce glanced at him and he nodded his encouragement. Antidote to synth? Pretty damn important to have, she said. So yes, you have my permission. And then later, later in the passage says the venom, in order to be an effective antidote, needs to be stabilized so it can interact with the synth and reverse its effects. My healing magic, cypaxia, can do that, but I need to be present in order to hold that stability. I'm trying to find a way for the magic to permanently hold the stabilization so it can be sent out into the world and widely used.

1:25:04 I'm just going to paraphrase the rest. So basically, she does successfully extract the venom. I put this in a different section as you could probably imagine. She extracts the venom. She does successfully create an answer that is held together by her magic at that point and it does neutralize synth based on what we know now know about synth that it is created with Obsidian salt and the cristalo steamens venom which negates magic, neutralizes synth like neutralizes it completely.

1:25:35 I do think that this is a point for the Cristalo steam and having something else about it, right? Something else that's not just hell, that's not just a polyan if it is neutralizing salt completely. In it, not only is the antidote to Synth, it later becomes the antidote to the Asteri parasite, right?

1:25:55 Because Hypaxia says that she used the antidote for synth as the base as the antidote to the asteri parasite. So is that just the eating magic ability of the crystallos? Like is that, is that what this is or. Yeah, is there something else going on here? It's very, very. Confusing. It's confusing but I honestly I think the like the fact whether they're right or wrong about the pelleus part, I think there has to be something as steri within the crystallos because of the eating magic part. I think it could be.

1:26:25 Well, Hunt speculates that that might be from Apollyon, Right. We, we the quote is if the Star Eater himself put his essence in the crystallos, that's probably what gave the demon the ability to eat magic, just as Prince Pelleus's blood gave it the ability to look for the horn. So we have a Polly on on one hand, and we have starborn power on the other.

1:26:44 Like, basically making this. Yeah. Which is crazy. Like it's kind of crazy. I mean, I'm the, I guess the Hysterian does also need to be there because it's looking for a Trove item. Yeah. The question is, is it Peleus or is it not Peleus? I don't know. I don't know, like it doesn't make sense for it to be anyone but Peleus because this demon was created to hunt down the Horn so that they could reopen the Northern Rift.

1:27:06 And Thea and Helena had the horn when they were allied with Hell, right? So they wouldn't have needed this demon like you would have. Felt like a Paulian wouldn't have need to would not have need to have made this beast if Thea and Helena. Helena really still had the horn. Maybe it's Hellena's blood.

1:27:25 Maybe they just used Hellena's blood somehow, somehow. But again, like, I think that Apollyon would have needed to have created it, unless he didn't, unless Apollyon didn't, which would be fucking crazy. But I think he would have needed to have created it before the rift closed, because how would be getting back to the rift? So why were the Princess?

1:27:43 So why were the Princess hunting for the horn? Where else do they want to go? But how could they have wielded it? Oh, because, because Thea was going to go live with Ada's and she did want to conquer all these realms. But they had the horn now, so. There had to be a time right between when Thea was killed and when Pelli is closed, or whoever closed the rift.

1:28:01 Closed the rift. Yeah, that time that like in between, had to have existed. And I think that was that had to have been the time that Apollyon created and released the crystallos, I think. I think you're right, yeah, on the. Other side of the rift and just like waited for somebody to summon a demon and like shove the crystallos through. There's cracks they can send people like they sent the Thunderbirds through.

1:28:25 But then, yeah, so I did something that allowed it to track the horn, and Helena was only sending herself there in her brain. You. Know the important thing here is that we know that the Cristalos did in fact hunt the horn because Michael was summoning it for some time to do that for him. And the Cristalos venom does negate magic and was used to create the synth antidote and later the parasite antidote.

1:28:49 Mostly it was the framework. I agree. Tough so I would say that this is actually an argument against Bryce being Bryce having a steri power because we are told the Princess of Hal say that the cristalos venom does not work on the osteri right? Like Bryce is like, why don't you just stick the Crystalis on the osteri?

1:29:11 And I think a Polygon says their magic wasn't the Crystallis couldn't eat their magic basically, right? And we know Bryce had the Crystallis venom in her leg. She didn't or couldn't summon her Starlight until it was pulled out of her. She does later have a line like the Crystallis venom, like hurt her magic but couldn't hurt her.

1:29:30 So I don't know, maybe there's a little wiggle room, but I would say that's a point against and I do want to acknowledge the points against the Bryce has a stereo power theory. So that's a point against it. And the other interesting thing too is that I think it's interesting that the hunt for the horn was blocked by the Arkeesian amulet, right?

1:29:50 So the Arkeesian amulet was powerful enough that it could throw the cristalo steam and off the trail of hunting this horn. So I just but why? Like what is that? Like what's the power of the Arkeesian amulet that it can block this demon who was literally created to hunt down the horn with the essence of Apollyon?

1:30:09 Like how powerful is this thing? I think it's kind of crazy because they're they're said to be human made, right? The Arkeesian ambulance were made by the priestesses at Parthos, right? So what is this magic like, you know, kind of crazy, right? That was world's longest chat on the crystallos. Now let's talk about this.

1:30:24 I don't really have that. I don't really have any theories. I mean it's like a fun verberous comp. To keep it brief, I didn't compare it to Cerberus at all, but we definitely, definitely should have. All right, So real quick, high level, we know that the Shepherd. We know that the shepherd is basically a hound, a hell hound, if you will, that Thanatos has created and that was left behind, was left behind after the first wars or what people on Midgard call the first wars to spy for Thanatos.

1:30:54 The Underking thinks it's his, but Thanatos actually created it. So what I think, the interesting things I think we have about the Shepherd is that we are immediately given scale vibes for the Shepherd. So the quote is the dog's fur, sleek and iridescent enough that it almost resembled scales, float over bulky bunched muscle claws like razor blades sliced dry into the ground.

1:31:18 Right? Again, as a reminder for Daglin hounds, we get a writhing sea of black scale body silvered by her light appeared. And then for the Illyrians, obviously we have the scaled armor. So again, it's like scale, scale scales all over. It's immune to Hunt's lightning, which kind of makes sense but kind of doesn't. Like we've seen Hunt's lightning work on other demons, so why does it not work on the Shepherd? So the quote we have for that is Hunt struck again, forced lightning splitting the sky before it slammed into the creatures back.

1:31:44 But it rolled once more, shaking off the lightning. The fuck? Hunt panted, drawing his sword and gun as he moved. And. Well, once you understand Thanatos's attachment to the Shepherd, making it immune to Hellfire would make sense. Because he was worried that like, well, actually this gets back to your idea of the demon wars, right?

1:32:03 If this was made by Thanatos and he wanted to make something that would be good against Apollyon, if Paula, if Apollyon and Thanatos were fighting, I think that that could make sense. OK. And then we have which is probably your Cerberus comp can peel apart. So the quote we have is then the hound peeled apart first its head split two other heads joining the 1st and then the three headed dog really should have caught this continued to separate until three halves sterled at them Three VS that shared one mind one goal kill. I so dull.

1:32:31 I was reading I was like why did it stop at 3? Why didn't it make 100 versions fluffy? This is so stupid because it's fluffy all right. Once again it's killed by the star sword right? So we get Hunt screamed as Bryce left in front of his power. This is when they're learning that they can charge each other up. So as his lightning hit the black blade, exploding from the metal, flowing up into her arm, her body, her heart, light flashed blinding.

1:32:56 No, that was Bryce. Power crackled from every inch of her, and from the star sword. She clenched in one hand as she barreled toward the shepherd. It split into 3 hounds again, and as the first beast landed, Bryce struck. The glowing star sword pierced at the thick hide. Lightning exploded across the beast's body.

1:33:12 I think this is interesting because it is basically Bryce taking in Hunt's lightning, right? She's being charged up by Hunt's lightning. She's converting that into her Starlight or whatever the Starlight is. But then the star sword is still kind of being a conduit for the lightning, right, Because we get light flash blinding. No, that was Bryce power crackle from every inch of her and from the star sword she clenched in one hand as she barreled toward the shepherd.

1:33:39 So that's light, right? Then we get lightning exploded across the beast's body, right? So it's kind of an interesting conversion of powers here. And once again, basically the star sword is killing the unkillable. And then later, of course, we find out the Shepherd was actually a spy for Thanatos. So we get the underking said you abandon it after the first wars. Abandoned or intentionally planted. Great fantastic.

1:34:01 I had no interest in being as lunch. Bryce said a Thanatos. His eyes flared. Cost me a Keeling to Midgard at the Shepherd reported faithfully to me on all it heard in the Bone Quarter. The souls of the dead talk freely of their world, right? So it can overhear. It can overhear the souls of the dead, basically. Yeah, that's almost exactly what I had. I mean, it's it is poetic of Thanatos to put to put a Cerberus like shepherd of souls.

1:34:28 A shepherd of souls, he calls it almost exactly. I think he does actually call it exactly. A shepherd of souls for a Prince who peddled them. Yeah. Yeah. I think it said a shepherd of souls Prince who peddled them. Yeah, yeah. In in the bone quarter. And I think we also talked in our Danica episode about how Axion's hellhound form looks. Looks like the shepherd.

1:34:51 Yeah, and it's like a lot like multiple heads or split into multiple forms, but looks like a shepherd's big, big black hound. I do think we know there are more of these in hell right? Thanatos has hounds around him and how So this may not be the last we've seen of a shepherd. I mean I think the question here is right. Like what other creatures has Thanatos created potentially put in other worlds?

1:35:14 Like is this it or does he have ears everywhere? Is he running a master spy network much like Eris or Azrael? Like given, he said left or intentionally planted, I would start wondering about all of these hounds that have been left in the Hean city. I am. I'm wondering about them. I am wondering about that. You mean the Daglin?

1:35:34 Yeah, the Daglin hounds. Like could one of them not be not be a Dagwent town? Yep. Yeah, that would be interesting. Makes sense. OK, good. That was quick. Well, right. Yeah. Good for the next one. All right, Ronnie, why can't a black crown hold? Or in so we are told by the Princess of Hell, while in quote Hell that a black crown can't hold a Prince of Hell. So this is again in Crescent City 3 Chapter 59. Apollyon's eyes glimmered like coals as he sent, as he said to hunt.

1:36:03 I am disappointed to see that you have not yet freed yourself from the Black Crown, Orion Afalar. Someone explained what the fuck that is. Hunt snapped. Which is fair, because we've heard a lot about the Black Crown ahead of this without being told what it is. Of all the things he'd ever imagined for his life, sitting in a circle with three Princess of Hell hadn't been anywhere on the list.

1:36:23 The Black Crowns were collars. And Hell. Thanatos answered darkly. His powerful body seemed primed to leap across that pit to attack. Hunt monitored his every breath. Spells crafted by the Etheria to enslave us. They were a Binding 1. The asteroid adapted in their next war upon Midgard. Hunt turned to Adis. You seem surprised to see one on me that first time we met. Why?

1:36:44 But before Adis could begin, Apollyon answered. Because the Princess of Hell cannot be contained by the Black Crowns. The asteroid learned that it was their downfall. As you were made by Hell's Princess, so it should not be able to hold you so Hunt notably this is just additional context has had two black Halos right one was put on him by which and the second one was marked by rigeless himself. So we get the two of them kind of compared. So what the first one we learned about in House of Birth and blood Chapter 61.

1:37:13 He is asked does the Halo hurt you? Hunt says only when it went on. What? Which? This is Hyperxia. What which inked it? Some Imperial hag. Hunt said through his teeth. One of the old ones. The witch's face tightened. It is a darker aspect of our work that we bind individuals through the Halo. It should be halted entirely. So Imperial hag put on his first Halo, then House of Claim and Shadow.

1:37:36 Chapter 8. What a sorry state you're in. The Prince of the pit perd. He remained hidden in the shifting shadows. The demon Prince inhaled as if tasting the air. What delicious pain you feel. I'd be happy to share this is Hun. A terrifyingly soft laugh. Your good humor, it seems, remains intact even with the Halo inked anew upon your brow.

1:37:58 Hunt smiled savagely. I had the honor of having it done by rigeless hand this time. Interesting that he would do it himself rather than employ an Imperial hag. Do you detect a difference? Hunts chin dipped. This one stings. The hags Halo felt like cold iron, this one burns like acid. And then later in chapter 37 he says he could have sworn its ink seared him every now and then.

1:38:19 It had never done that before. But this Halo inked by Rigelous felt different, worse, alive somehow. So the witches is described as like a dormant iron like restraint basically, where is the one that rageless puts on like actively actively searing him almost as like he flares up his own power. It's like no, sit the fuck down, actually, like you're not going to use your power here because I'm restraining you. We're told this is an old method that the Osteria it's existed for millennia.

1:38:48 That's not super interesting. And then once Hunt actually tries to destroy the Black Crown when he and Celestina have a confrontation at the Northern Rift, he has no problem slicing through it once he kind of decides to do it. What's interesting, I think, is that he can also slice through Isaiah's, which is not really something that Napoleon alluded to him being able to do. Like, it shouldn't be able to contain you. You didn't necessarily say you can actually get it off of anyone.

1:39:16 So that was wild. But that passage is in chapter 79 of Crescent City 3. And he says a leash to hold demons in check. It hadn't worked on the Princess. He'd be damned if he allowed it to keep working on him. Hunt let his power build and build and build. The snow around him melted away. Napoleon had given his essence, his Hellfire to Hunt, and if that made him a son of hell, so be it.

1:39:39 Hunt closed his eyes and he saw it there, the black band of the Halo imprinted across his very soul. It's scrolling vine of thorns. The spell to contain him. Everyone knew the enslavement spell couldn't be undone and had never even tried. But he was done playing by the series rules, by anyone's rules. Hunt reached a mental hand toward the black thorns of the Halo, wreathed his fingers and lightning and Hellfire in the power that was his and only his, and sliced through it. The thorns of the Halo shivered and bled. Black ink dripped down, dissolving into nothing, gobbled up by the power that was now surging in him, rising up. And then he does.

1:40:12 He undoes Isaiah's. So he sliced the line through the Halo on his brow. Isaiah hissed. Staggering back so he's able to get rid of his he's also able to get rid of Isaiah's. Isaiah's presumably is still done by an imperial hag. So again, I'm not too too sure exactly what the difference is. There clearly is a difference between what the witch put in. It seems like that one is use of iron, which again we've been told hasn't like bears no meaning here but seems to and Hunt has no problem just killing it and he has no issue either. Why this is a question like why can it not be contained? We are told in chapter 16 by Apollyon that it basically is related to the same properties that that link them to black salt.

1:41:01 So that quote is, if a violin is one of the stronger thin places, why the hysteria even allow the fate to live here? The black salt in such high quantity keeps them away. They never realized that its presence drew us as much as it repelled them. Napoleon said with satisfaction. It has the same properties that made us immune to the thrall of their black crowns. Here's what I think this means, because the wording is actually pretty tricky.

1:41:23 It has the same properties that made us immune to the thrall of their black crowns. And the. It is the black salt. Yeah. So I think what what Pauline is saying, I think is that the black salt does something to a steri energy. It repels or neutralizes it. It's essentially like anti a steri matter substance. And Apollyon is saying that he and his kind, like the Princess, have that same intrinsic property in their nature that black salt has as a substance.

1:42:01 So whatever it is that black salt, whatever it is about black salt that pushes Esteri away, is also baked into what Apollyon is and the other Princess are. So black salt repels the Esteri physically, magically away from a Volin. And like other physical locations, Apollyon's nature same repels the Esteri's thrall from his mind, his power so the same like anti asteri property, two different expressions of it, salt and the Princess innate nature.

1:42:31 So I understand it very. Clear. Thank you, that actually helped me a lot because I was very struggling with this. Amusing. But what I think is interesting. A couple of things. I was smiling while you were chatting because I it only just occurred to me that Imperial Hag is like an official position here. I thought it was just a mean nickname, but I think there actually is a real role in the Esteri art. Yeah, it's a true role.

1:42:57 So congratulations to the Imperial. Congratulations. I think this is interesting because I think it fits with what we were just talking about with the cristalos and the parasite, right? Because the way that this crown is described, when rigeless puts it on as if it's almost alive, right? Like that seems like the same idea as the parasite, right?

1:43:21 It's alive, It's sucking on Huntsman sucking on, it's feeding on its magic. It's like it's, it's stealing his magic, right? And then the antidote to that is the Cristalos, which is made from Apollyon's essence and the Ant and Hunt is not able to be held by a black crown because he also has again, a Polygon. I don't know if it's a Polygon specifically or just all hell whatever that is his, which I think is interesting so. Here's where the crystallis as the antidote kind of breaks down for me because I went exactly where you went. But This is why I think that the Cristalos has to have like when it has it has something hysteria about it because it allows it to track down the horn synth has

1:44:03 black salt. That's the part where I'm like, what? Like what is actually going on here? Like the neutralizing, like the fact that there's a Polygon and the fact that there's black salt. Like those based on this should be like and like, but we also have like we have to have something asteria on the crystallo side.

1:44:21 If it's if it's tracking the horn, I think I don't. Know if it's tracking the horn? I think so too. I think so too. And whether that's Peleus's Starborn power or something else, I think so too. So like all these people who inject synth and live, are they immune to the parasite? Are they immune to a steri power? Like if it has black salt in it, like what's going on there? That might just be a fun fanfic opportunity there. I don't know, just put that out there since kind of dies and never comes back.

1:44:50 And I actually thought it was so interesting and I wish it had kind of stayed. Maybe it'll be back in Book 4. I don't know, since the fact that sin is what healed the horn in my mind, what it has become for me is just like the Obsidian salt of it all. And that's like, but I agree, it needs to come back, Yeah. All right, guys, we are finally getting to the ATIS part of the episode.

1:45:14 Yes, Abby, I told you I said this. Is going to be so long. You're right. You're right. Maybe the next one will be short. All right, Abby, what are Atis's? Power. All right, it's not a short list, unfortunately. That's OK, we'll go through it real quick. All right, so Adis first thing seems to be able to sense people's powers. So we've kind of talked about this with the Princess of Hell, but the first time he meets Hunt, we get a fallen warrior with the power of dot dot dot.

1:45:47 You might have just read this. Edis's groomed brows lifted and surprised. His blue Opal eyes narrowed to slits, then simmered like the hottest flame. What are you doing with a black crown around your brow? Right, so like he meets Hunt and he immediately fox this guy has hell powers, which is interesting right?

1:46:02 That means they weren't like keeping an eye on hunt. They didn't know who Hunt was. Hunt just was kind of out there and now they're like, oh, this guy, This is. More evidence for that they were maybe at odds with each other because Apollyon seems quite attuned with who Hunt is, Atis is. And Apollyon at one point was like, I don't, I'm not responsible for the motions of my brother. Like I don't know where he was.

1:46:23 But hi, Orion, like are you fulfilling your purpose? Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Polly on seems to know exactly who Hunt is and how to talk to him in dreams, which we will talk about next episode. All right, so Adis can, and we were told that all the Princess of Hell can, but we only see this with Adis, sneak through cracks in worlds. So the quote we have for that is Jessica told me that the Princess can sneak through cracks in either rift, making the form of common animals, but then they're confined to those forms with none of their own power save the ability to speak, and they can only stay for a few hours at a time. So it's Crescent City 1 chapter 51. So we're told this is all the

1:47:01 Princess, but we only see it from it is. I also want to add here, they almost certainly learned how to do this from the Asteri. The quote we have for that this is from that Asteri timeline is a dark, cold world with mighty creatures of night. They saw through our lures. Once warring factions, the royal armies of hell united and marched against us. We were overwhelmed and abandoned their world, but they gave chase.

1:47:25 Learn from our captured Lieutenant how to slip between the cracks and realms. This was an originally a steri power that it seems like the Princess of hell not only learned how to do, but can do. And I feel like we're just like circling around this the whole episode. Like there's a lot of fucking overlaps between these two powers in both the way they are the same and like the way they are opposite. So like she seems to be building towards this idea of like we get we get it a lot like made and unmade light and dark matter and antimatter.

1:47:53 Like these two are kind of at the opposite ends of the spectrum. The and the Princess we also get some tension reading think, which we don't really talk about much in the mass first but has popped up as a power and other series we've covered. So he says to Bryce when he's in her apartment. We have what sort of cat visits an Oracle winning first words. Ada slid his hands into his pockets again. I did not know what you might prefer. And now that you are grown.

1:48:22 So he either assumed, he either just assumed like a 13 year old girl would want a talking cat as a friend, or he could like read something about Bryce and say, oh, like you're going to want to talk to a cat right now. And then we know he like kind of senses her emotions. So the quote we have for that is Atis. Atis Ada's tilted his head to one side. You were very sad then as well.

1:48:47 So he knows when she's 13 that she was very sad, knows now she's very sad about Danica, right. So like, is he just an empath or can he actually like read her feelings, read her emotions like some sort of I wouldn't call even mind speaking or mind reading, but just like I can sense your emotions type thing. I'm do everything I just said because then we see him in a Polygon, have a wordless conversation in the dungeon cell.

1:49:10 So we have the Princess of hell. This is when Adis and Napoleon are hooked in shadow. The Princess of Hell looked at each other, some wordless conversation passing between them. Right, So wordless conversation there and then. This I thought was really interesting. He knows, seems to know, that the Asteria are planning to kill.

1:49:28 Run. This is again in the dungeon. Fragilis has come and said one of your companions is going to be killed tomorrow. He somehow knows that it's ruined. So the quote is I am sorry that one of your companions will die tomorrow. Fuck, Hun. Said Horsley. The idea who they've picked. Atis angled his head, more feline than princely, like he could hear things that Hunt couldn't. And then he says it's going to be ruined because ruin matters more to both you and Bryce.

1:49:49 So like is he mind reading here? Is he listening to thoughts? Like I mean Apollyon later says to Hunt right? Like your, your thoughts are broadcast to me right? So it's really not that crazy think. What's a little more interesting is what he cannot do or what I don't have proof that he can do, which is shadow wielding right?

1:50:08 So the first time that Hunt sees Aidus in the dungeon, he's in a shadow, he's with Apollyon. So the quote for that is a Polygon appeared again, a second shadow at his side, taller and thinner, with eyes like blue opals. Where is Bryce? His the Prince of the Chasm, which is Atis. I guess we should have mentioned that Atis is the Prince of the chasm.

1:50:26 But the second time, the second time Atis appears, he's on his own. Napoleon is not there, and he's a cat again, right? So we have Orion Atis's voice sounded in his head in the chamber. It's pretty. They're mind speaking right there, right? Also, if he's a cat, how is he talking to any of these people? I think it's got to be mind speaking. All right, Orion Atis's voice sounded in his head in the chamber.

1:50:49 A cat with eyes like blue opals crouched on the floor amid the blood and waste the same form rigeless had used to deceive hunt months ago, right. So I think it's really interesting that the second time he comes back, he's not coming back as a shadow. He's coming back as a cat right and I think obviously the reason that this is interesting is because if hypothesize that the shadow wielding ability of the starborn line might actually be from Atis, but I don't know that he has that power. I don't know that it can come from him. So the other thing that I think is interesting is that we, he cannot win a we like actually have confirmation of this because in the final battle against the Osteria we get Adis unsheathed us.

1:51:29 This is a tongue twister, it is unsheathed a shining silver blade that seemed to glow with bluish light by turn. The demon Prince said, the dry breeze whipping his pale blonde hair. He asked Bryce a ride. Hunt had only a moment to glimpse the worry, the fear in her eyes as she grabbed Adis's hand, then Hunts and teleported them with the power of Thea Star.

1:51:50 It barely took a moment, barely seemed to dream her. So as Crescent City 3 chapter 90, so Adis can't widow on his own, he's asking Bryce to winnow him right, Which I we had speculated in the starborn Faye episode that that is actually in a Steri, a world walking power. I think that's confirmation here and again, we get that the Princess of hell can slip through the cracks in the realms, but not that they can like open portals themselves. So I just think that lines up with. Yeah, then they just would.

1:52:17 Yeah, if they can world walk, they wouldn't need it. They wouldn't need the horn, Yeah. So I'm not sure on shadows and definite no on the winnowing everything else probably Dame Audi. I think I'm with you on not sure on shadows because rune we we get the direct comp of rune cloaking Lydia as well as they move through the and. Azrael, Quoks, Cloks, Pharaoh in the king of hybrid camp. We already know for sure that shadow walking is not only something that you to yourself like you can also do it to others if you can't do it at all. So I agree with you exactly.

1:52:50 Yeah. Anything else on? Aid assist. I mean, you did mention, but I think it's just worth mentioning. Like he is the Prince of the fifth level of hell, which is the Prince of the Chasm, and it's not really a power. But I do want to talk about his raw form because his humanoid form we know very well, which is, you know, he's blonde, blue eyed baby pretty boy, I think is the exact description.

1:53:16 Slender, pale skinned, pretty boy. Thank you, Hunt. But his true form, right, the Princess are all kind of described this way, at least the ones that we see. Creatures of darkness and decay, mouths full of sharp teeth, leathery wings displayed like the Princess themselves in their true form have leathery wings, including Adis, which is which is interesting.

1:53:38 Yeah. I'd also like to nominate him. I know that it's not exact, but I'd like to nominate Adis as someone to add to the camp of blue eyes that glow. I know that they're lighter, they're more Opal than sapphire, but in hell they are literally described AS2 blue lights as they're approaching. Like not even eyes, they're 2 blue lights. And like that is it's like very consistent even when he is in in his shadow form in his true form. So I just, I think it's interesting, that's all. I agree it's a big, big episode of. I think it's interesting.

1:54:10 That's kind of hell for you. I think it's interesting, interesting place sounds. Lovely. All right, next question, Ronnie. What does Ada's know about Prythian and when did he find out? OK, we're almost done guys. I promise. During Celine's recounting of hers and Thea's and like her family's life at the beginning of House and Flame and Shadow, she describes Ada's alleged first words to Thea says, have you come to ask for Hell's help then? And those are not first time words with no familiarity, so let's discuss those.

1:54:45 So context for that quotes House, Flame, and Shadow Chapter 20 My mother had kept the star map that the Daglin had long ago annotated, and a world on it had caught her attention, a world like ours that had overthrown the Daglin. In an elaborate bedroom, standing before a desk with her two daughters, Thea waved a hand as if she pulled them from that pocket of nothingness. The harp and the horn appeared on the desk, glimmering alongside the star sword and the knife. They had nodded once, slowly, as if making a decision. So she's been thinking about this and then played the horn in the harp.

1:55:15 A portal between worlds swirled. It's solidified an archway to nowhere. A handsome golden haired male stood before it with eyes like blue opals. Bryson Hale sharply. Prince Adus only asked my mother one thing when she opened the gate to his world. Have you come to ask for Hell's help then? So the way Selena's describing this story is like Thea had been researching, Thea's aware of this world, it caught her attention. She, after a long time, decided to reach out to them. But like, she knew exactly who to call. She knew which world to access.

1:55:44 She knew how to access it. This does not seem, at least to me, like it was a first time encounter, despite what Celine may have described in the subsequent texts about Atis and her mother kind of developing a connection over the coming months. But I think we get an important hint from her in that story that she tells immediate after immediately after, and that is that he had been tracking the Asteri conquest since they failed to conquer Hell.

1:56:08 Celine says Adis is the Prince of Hell, blah blah blah. Using rare summer insults to facilitated communication between worlds, spies and Midgard had kept him well informed since the Asteri had failed to conquer his planet. Adis had been assigned to hunt for the Asteri ever since. So that they're evil might never triumph again on his world or any other. So let's go back to the timeline to figure out what the fuck was going on here, because spoiler alert, it does not really make sense.

1:56:33 How's this kind breath? Chapter 72 Hell lost AE17001 Yeah, once warring factions, the royal armies of Hell united marched against as we were overwhelmed, abandoned their world. But they gave chase. Sure. So this is again in the Asteria Archives in Dusk we learn that they lost hell in 17001, they found us on Midgard in 17002 and this they are calling Adis in that moment was supposedly from Midgard after she learned shit.

1:57:06 We actually just walked into this world in which the Asteria are actually in power. So and then and then we learn we lost a third of our meals to them or lasted until nearly the end of 17003. So if this timeline is all that there is to ponder, then we only have two years of Adis keeping tabs on the Asteria, right? Which doesn't leave tons of room for Thea and Adis to get familiar with each other.

1:57:35 So until nearly the end of 17003 they were defeated and sent back to hell. Far too dangerous to allow them to access this world again. So this should imply that Adas had been hunting for the Asteri for only two years before the end of the first wars, where they were kicked out via the rift. Before this though, on Prythean, Thea and Theon ruled for centuries, says centuries, and the Daglin had been there for millennia before that.

1:58:02 So according to this right, like according to that timeline, Edis would should not have been watching over Perthian since hell was conquered during that time because hell was conquered in like 2 years before the 1st wars ended. And so just for evidence of the centuries quote. And with the Daglin gone, as the centuries passed, as the tide was no longer demanded of us or the land, our power strengthened, the land strengthened, it returned to what it had been before the Daglins arrival millennia before. But I think we do have reason to believe that Hell and Edis potentially were involved and aware of Prithean before this, and This is why.

1:58:38 And we've talked about this a little bit, but I'll keep it snappy. But first we we know that they didn't have children for centuries with Vien, and then she suddenly did, right? That, combined with the familiarity with which Edis greeted her and the shadowy Damani powers of her offspring make a pretty strong case that she and Edis did know each other.

1:58:57 Or like, could have been meeting in secret and potentially bore Celina and Helena, potentially. That's all theoretical. It would also kind of explain how she so easily killed BM if she like, knew that she loved somebody else. And that quote is after centuries with an empty womb, My mother bore both my sister and me within a span of five years.

1:59:17 My father was fading by then. He was centuries older than my mother. Second, while Celine doesn't go into detail, she says that her parents told her that they use the trove and the Cauldron, the Dagwan's own weapons, right to fight the Dagwan. And when that's all she says, she doesn't say much, but she says they fought the Daglin and won. She went on using the Daglin's own weapons. They destroyed them.

1:59:38 So what would that actually entail, right? You would wear the mask and you would have an army of the dead. You would have the crown and you would control anyone, but not made people so not be a steri. And then you would have the horn and the harp to open up to another world. That's like what the horn and the harp do if you're using the nag one's own weapons, like what are you doing?

2:00:00 This also would work, right? Because they talk about the cauldron and we have this is a plug for our cauldron episode. The cauldron has tons of hell influence. If they were fucking with the cauldron and using the cauldron and they were in league with hell, is that how the cauldron ended up so helly? But this is the damning, the damning point, right? Third, and a court of silver flames, Emery tells us. Of a key battle about ancient beings who oppressed the fae, in which Annalius held the pass until allies came right long ago.

2:00:30 So long ago they don't even have a precise state for it. The Great War was fought between the fae and the ancient beings who oppressed them. One of its key battles was here in these mountains. Our forces were battered and outnumbered and for some reason the enemy was desperate to reach the stone at the top of Ramiel. We were never taught the reason why, I think it's been forgotten, but a young Illyrian warrior named Anaulius, who we know was living at the time of Vesperus, right because she mentions him as a traitor, held the line against the enemy soldiers for days.

2:00:58 He found a natural archway of stone. Natural archway which has been connected to portals amongst the tangle of boulders and made that his bottleneck. He died in the end, but he held off the enemy enough for allies to reach us. We all know that this was a battle against the Asteria, and Bespherus knows that Annelius was a traitor. So who?

2:01:17 Like who were these allies? We've talked about this before right? It feels like it would be hell. So none of this holds up with Adis has been tracking the Asteria since they threw them out of hell. Because that was supposed to only have happened 2 years before the 1st wars ended. But if all of that is true, like I think that we have a lot of reason to believe that Hell was interfering with the Daglin's presence in Prythian, which was millennia before that. So I think that hell, even if it wasn't Ada's exactly, but Ada seems to be ageless.

2:01:46 The Princess of Hell seem to be ageless. Like, could they have learned things about the Daglin in that battle? Could they have been the allies to Prythian? And like, could he have met Thea then? Because like, Thea was the ringleader. Thea and beyond were the ringleaders of overgrowing the Daglin at that time, and they did not do it alone. We know that they didn't do it alone. That's very theoretical, but I'm curious what you have. Yeah.

2:02:11 I talked about this in our reread episode. So first thing, we know that it's 5000 years that the Daglin ruled. We have the quote we were slaves to the Daglin for 5000 years. Our people, the High Faye knelt before them. That's in Crescent City 3 chapter 18 with Celine's Ted talk. So the rough timeline that we should have here I put together assuming a AE is a calendar year, the way it is here on Earth, which I don't know, we can confirm that, but basically around 11,500 AE Steri conquer Midgard, then around 16,500 AE steri loss Midgard. And then I'm saying I'm guessing a couple centuries means I'm just guessing 450 years.

2:02:53 I don't know that's that's like a total guess. But around 16,950 AE Thea overthrows Fion. We know her rule is short, short, don't know how short, but we know her rule is short. So I guess that that was around 50 years, right? So then in basically 17,000 AE is when they go over to Midgard. So we have what you just said 17,001. So basically 16 thousand 16,500 a steri loose Midgard, they make their way to hell.

2:03:22 There are also different groups of a steri. Rajalis tells us that that there are different groups of a steri throughout the land. So it does not have to be like 1 going to the other going to the other. Like it could be overlapping should not necessarily work. The timeline still should not necessarily work if it's linear, right? Because the Asteria should have lost toll on 17,000 and one AE and the Asteria should have been on Midgard way but 5000 years before that basically, right?

2:03:49 Like if not more it shouldn't work. But we talked about this in our reviewed episode We Debt. We have a concrete piece of evidence that breaks all that, which is the Esteri star map that Thea brings over from Prythian, right? So the quote we have for that is my mother had kept the star map that the Daglin had long ago annotated, and a world on it had caught her attention, a world like ours that had overthrown the Daglin.

2:04:15 We're not specifically told that this is how, but then she goes and opens the portal to talk to Adis, right? So I'm assuming that it's a fair call that I'm assuming that this star map came over with them from Prithian because we're told they brought star maps with them. I'm doubt the Asteria are just giving or just giving the well.

2:04:32 Maybe they had spies, I don't know. But basically the way it's worded, I'm assuming this is a star map from Prithian and that hell is on there because Bryce calls out that there must have been a stereo archives on Prithian, right? Like that feels like important information that's going to come back later.

2:04:46 There's also one other interesting piece of key information here that has. I don't know what to make of it. Vesperous has never heard of Hell, right? The quote we have is what manner of creature is this Apollyon? We call them demons, but you probably know them by some other name. Your kind tried to invade their world. Hell, it didn't go well for you.

2:05:04 Hell and this Apollyon shall pay for such sacrilege. Vesperous hits. So she's never heard of hell. There is a possibility that that is because the planet is not actually called hell because Bryce later has a quote that says we call them demons, but you might know them by another name. So it's possible that they have another name for hell or the timeline we've been given is true when the and hell on the star map is an oopsie.

2:05:26 None of this makes sense. I don't know. I hate for that to be the answer but like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess she does explicitly say that it was a DAG one that had annotated it. So I think there are some other options here too and other things to look at. And I just want to the question was, what does Adis know about Prithian and when did he know it?

2:05:46 Right? That was the question. So a couple of things. He definitely knows about Prithian. He definitely knows about the knife and the sword. And he knew that the dagger was on Prithian. Like he knows that Prithian has exists and he he has known that it existed for a long time, right? So he knows it exists.

2:06:02 The quote we have for that Celine had this with her when she returned to her homeworld. And now I've brought it back to Midgard. Adis started at the site of the dagger, right? So he is like shocked that Bryce was able to go to mid Prithian, even though he had speculated that maybe she would be on Prithian.

2:06:17 Like he's shocked. So he knows something there. We are also told that Prithian, Midgard and hell, I'll run atop late lines, right? So we have there are Ley lines across the whole of the universe and the planets like Midgard, like hell, like the whole world of the Fey top. Those lines are joined by time and space and the void itself.

2:06:36 It thins the veils separating us right? So timeline does seem fucked and doesn't really seem to matter. But even if you took the Asteria out of the equation, what we're told with these Ley lines is that potentially like Hell and Prissian could be in contact anyway if Hell knew how to do it right. I guess just like my only question there and it's not great, but like as soon as as soon as Ada's thought, as soon as Ada's realized that Bryce didn't make it to hell and thought she might be there.

2:07:05 Like he didn't go, he didn't try and reach her and she was in and play her. I hate to say it, given all the theories we've had, but I think it's totally possible. Ada's had nothing to do with Brethian. I do think that's possible. Like it's totally possible. I don't know, but I think what's important now that Prithian now definitely knows about Aidis and Hell because when Bryce comes to Prithian she starts screaming about Aidis and Apollyon and how. So either way, I feel like we're getting set up for a Prithian Hell storyline.

2:07:42 I just don't know. I just don't know how much Aidis has been involved up till now. No. All right. Anything else there? All right. Throne of Glass omissions. Do you have any? Spoiler, spoiler spoiler. Oh yeah, all right guys, that is the end of our Crescent City and Acatar section that we are now going to do a brief section on Throne of Glass spoilers. So if you don't want to get spoiled, we recommend leaving now.

2:08:08 Or you can just skip this chapter and go straight to our precog because it shouldn't be too. I don't think I precog too long. Yeah, my preroggs don't have Throne of Glass spoilers. My precog does not have Throne of Glass spoilers either, so if you have not read every book in Throne of Glass, just fair warning, you might be spoiled for the next however many minutes we talked about Throne of Glass. So, Ronnie, any Throne of Glass emissions? OK, I'm going to I'm going to save my Valgan hell tirade for the next episode just because this episode was getting quite long.

2:08:40 So I just have, I'm, I'm going to keep it to two brief ones here that are like specifically pertinent to this episode. The 1st is just that the Crystallis venom removal sounded remarkably similar to Irene's removal of Kale's valg injuries. Like a basically mini version of it in the House of Earth and Blood chapter 61. And Kale goes like deep into his psyche and like memories and goes through all these like dark, dark, dark memories, right?

2:09:15 And so his is definitely more mental and deep rooted. I mean, he's fucking paralyzed. So like that just is deeper. But I like, I can't quite get the parallel imagery out of my head of Bryce having like the experience of like acid. Her skin was sizzling, bones melting away, like she can barely breathe. Hunt is like they're trying to like help her through it. And then she's got like, she's got hyperxia who has a lot of parallels to Irene.

2:09:45 And we'll talk more about Hyperxia in the witches, of course. But the witches in in at Crescent City are very similar to the healers in Throne of Glass. And the entire time that I was reading that scene, I was just like, wow, the the parallels of healing and removing of this crystallis venom, which is like a physical thing that has been eating away at you, is very similar to Irene pulling out a physical thing like a physical valve injury that has been also eating away at kale.

2:10:14 So yeah, that was one just fun little parallel that I'm sure we'll talk more about as we talk about hyperxium. But it was related to the crystallis venom, so I wanted to throw it in here. And then the second one was about Obsidian salt. It is considered black and oily again. Full valg hell tirade next episode. But thou blood and power is also considered oily all the time. All the time.

2:10:40 Crown of I think this is. I think it's Crown of the Night. Chapter 45 Selena finds the blood of a valid creature under the castle. She says 1/2 dried pool of blood lay at the base of the door, so dark it looks like oil. It felt as oily as it looks. She remembers it again later in Air of Fire and she even calls it Obsidian.

2:11:01 She describes it as Obsidian, Obsidian, oily pool of blood. And then in Empire of Storms chapter 15, she also describes Wordstone as oily. She says iron as if the man score was made of it and that oily hideous after taste dot dot dot wordstone. And then in Kingdom of Ash chapter 70, the pulse of air wants power slithered over Dorian, so similar, so terribly similar to the oily power of that valid Prince. The fact that we just talked about the essence of the Princess of hell having the same properties of Obsidian salt in that it repels the asterion.

2:11:34 It's like immune to asteria thrall. Obsidian salt is described as oily and so is like literally everything related to dog power. Word stone. Dog blood is interesting. I also believe there is that quote about the throne of glass gods. Remember what book it's in about the throne of glass gods? Like fearing Obsidian basically and don't think I can find it.

2:11:58 That's OK. All right, I'll see if I can remember the quote and I'll bring it in at some point. But there is a quote about I think it's about it's about the gods and throne of glass. And it's it's clearly referencing word stone. But it says like Obsidian they feared the most. And if I'm wrong, you guys will let me know. It's totally fine because I didn't prep this at all. But it is a gap idea that I mean, I do like, are you, are you going as far as to say that Obsidian, that black Obsidian salt might be related to word stone or are we just saying it's all very valk?

2:12:35 I mean, I think that word stone is either the essence of or is created to mimic the essence of Valk, and Obsidian salt seems to also be created to mimic the essence of the Princess of Hell. So I think they're all linked. I agree. All right, I don't really have anything that my Throne of Awesome mission was that the Reapers bleed black.

2:12:57 We know that's we got it. It's cool. It's all down. There, it's all right, all right, pre. Cog. OK. I I kind of yeah, I have one. It's not really a pre cog corner. It's kind of a mythology corner. So I just wanted to talk about hell in mythology real quick because I think there's some interesting parallels with what she's doing.

2:13:20 It's not necessarily a theory, though. I'm just letting you know right now. So hell in Norse mythology is both a goddess and a place. So the afterlife location is said to be down and to the north. Interesting. That is to the north. Hello night court, hello huge city right? It is said that it will play an important role in ragnarok. If you guys don't remember what episode it was, but we talked about the the Uroboros mirror that Sarah looks into has a serpent that's eating itself Uroboros, obviously, but that that has essence like seems to be a reference to Yorman Gonder, who is a great snake that encircles the world. And it's said that Ragnarok is going to start when form and Gonder like basically stops

2:14:01 fighting himself, releases himself. So we've now gotten kind of two Ragnarok mentions, which I think is interesting. This is a description of a road of the road to hell from the website and I quote worst mythology for smart people. So it's for smart people. So we get while he was living with Rang Kyles Ragnahild.

2:14:22 Jesus Christ, I should have looked up pronunciations. I'm very sorry to all our Nordic listeners. All right. While he was living with Ragnahild, Hadding had another mysterious experience. Woman appeared bearing some herbs. Wishing to know where such herbs grew in winter, Hadding went this woman under the earth. They pass through mists and then through sunny, fertile regions where the herbs had grown.

2:14:43 Then they came to a raging torrent flowing with weapons. Crossing by a bridge, they came upon armies of fallen warriors locked in eternal battle. As they press forward, a wall stood in their way. They could go no further, but the woman tore off the head of a cock, meaning a chicken in this case, not a penis, which she happened to have with her, and flung it over the wall. Immediately the cock came to life and crowed. So I think there's like a lot of interesting parallels here to Bryce's journey through the tunnels to get to the prison. Right?

2:15:13 So we start with the herbs. This is this guy's journey to hell, the woman who appears bearing herbs, right? That's where we start. When Bryce gets to Prithian, Sarah specifically calls out the herbs in her dish, which seems really strange. But she mentions that the herbs that she gets with her meal when she's being held under the Hewn City, I think are Rosemary. And she's like, they must have herbs, the same herbs here or something, which I always thought was like a really weird cop.

2:15:41 But now we have this hell story. Like, is it? Is she trying to draw a comparison here? And then they pass through the mist is the next. This seems pretty self-evident. We've talked like, you know, Misty Place, Thin Place. And then we have funny fertile regions. We know that that's how the prison used to be before the Daglin corrupted it.

2:16:00 So is this is kind of again a parallel. And then we have this came to a raging torrent flowing with weapons crossing by a bridge. They came upon armies of fallen warriors locked in eternal battle, right? We have Bryce crossing the bridge with where nest is like, oh, you froze out there right when she sees the miningard worm. We have Bryce crossing the bridge. And then we have depictions battle. So it's not an actual battle, but we have these carvings that Celine has left that are these pictures of the battle. And then as they press forward, a wall stood in their way. They could go no further, which obviously we have a wall, right? We have a wall with an 8 point of star that Bryce touches and Nesta and then a door opens to

2:16:39 the harp chamber. So I think it's really interesting that this is like it's supposed to be the road to hell, but it's leading us to U.S. court. Like it's so many if there's so many parallels with Bryces journey to dust court. And we know that a violin is like intricately linked to hell with the black salt.

2:16:56 We haven't necessarily seen that with the prison, but like if they're all on top of each other, does that mean dust court has? And I'm going to say vesperous, like leave the Princess out of it, even vesperous at this point, like does she have does dust court have stronger ties to hell? Then we've kind of been led to a leave us far right? I just think it's I don't know, I just think it's interesting. Vesperous.

2:17:16 Seeming less asteri than any other story keeps me up. I would agree with that. Not for today all. Right. What's your precoct theory? So I'm going to flip mine because you basically almost got there to in this episode, so might as well do it here. And this to be clear, this one, this one is crazy.

2:17:34 So I know that it's probably not true. OK, but this is just for fun. It's for fun. OK, So we have talked about how Bryce is star born and she seems super different from all of the other star born Princess star born lineage. She doesn't have any other classic traits. She doesn't seem like she had got anything from Celine and Helena, right?

2:17:55 Like the the dark colored hair, the blue eyes, the shadows, the Dame Adi. She doesn't have that. You also mentioned in this episode that we're not sure that Atis can wield shadows. We haven't seen Atis wield shadows. I guess we have seen him mind speak, so there's that. But we have seen Atis appear to Bryce basically whenever, right? Like we've seen him come to her as a cat whenever it suits him, basically.

2:18:24 We haven't seen Apollyon do that, right? Apollyon needs to come on the autumnal equinox when the veil between worlds is thin, but he can come to hunt whenever, like whenever he wants because hunt is tied to him right? My question is, is it possible that Adis can talk to Bryce whenever because he is family, he's he is parental lineage in some regard. Like he and Thea did create a line of sorts, but it's not Celine and Helena.

2:18:56 It's actually not Celine and Helena. And Celine and Helena maybe are maybe they maybe they are fiance, but maybe they have essence of Apollyon or somebody who does have shadows, right? So they have a specific tie to hell that is maybe not atasis. Maybe it's not Atasis tie. And maybe Bryce specifically is tied to Atas and that's why she has such a strong connection to him and he to her and does not have as much in common with Celine or Helena.

2:19:23 It's because they have different different ties to different. So my precog next episode is how I think it's actually a Polygon who might be the father of Helena and Selena. And I actually have a lot to go off of there. Yeah. So that's why I was getting there, because I also got there. It's really.

2:19:41 Yeah, I just. So what do we think? Like Adis fucked Ember, Like I don't like what? How does it work? You know, like what do we think? How do we think Adis was involved? But I think Adis could have started a line with Thea different, just one different direction, different child that we there could be 1/3 a third that we do not know about.

2:20:00 The precog theory that is crazy is that Thea and Adis have a different. That went to Bryce. So Adis's investment in Bryce is paternal. Like literally like you are my family, I am looking after you, I can visit you whenever because you are genetically tied to me. Just like Hunt is genetically tied to Apollyon.

2:20:19 And that's why Apollyon can visit Hunt whenever. You don't have shadows because I don't have shadows, but Celine and Helena do because Napoleon's genetics are at play there, not one. Yeah, that would be interesting. But I look forward to your precog next episode to make more sense of it. Yeah, OK, that is it from us for this week. You can follow us on social media. We are drags in the details pod and all social media platforms. We are on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. We are on Discord.

2:20:50 If we are, I actually think we say this wrong every time. I think we're drags in the details server. I don't think we're drags in the details pod server, but you can find us on discord. I actually drag into the details server every time. OK, we are dragging the details server. We are on discord.

2:21:06 We have a lot of fun there. We a lot of our conversations are kind of sparked by what's happening on the Discord. So if you want to join in, that is a great time. You can e-mail us drags in the details pod@gmail.com. And as always, Please remember to great subscribe and review if you like us or if you don't. All I can see is a black phone.

2:21:24 You know you're blurry. Dragons. Dragons in the details server. Dragons in the details server yes, that is the name of our discord. That is it from us this week. We're going to keep talking about how next week, it's basically Part 2 to this episode. We're going to talk about what are their names, a Polygon and that Polygon and that spell Polygon and Thanatos. That is it from us for this week. Love you, bye.

2:21:46 Love you. Bye.