Crescent City: Starborn Deep Dive

0:00 In Greek mythology, Venus is also called Ronnie. Do you want to do the honors? Vesperus? Vesperus. OK, it's Vesp versus star. It is not the Asteri star. It is Vesp versus star. This is a symbol of Vespers. OK, so once again all roads lead to Vespers. There are two things that I had to report today. One was that I got a haircut yesterday and the first thing that my sister said when she saw me, we get her haircut by the same person.

0:39 She went on Friday, I went on Saturday. She said it looks the same. I don't think it looks the same. I can see the legs. It's. The same length. I was like, OK. It's about the shaping. For the feedback, I agree with you. I agree with you, but I was complaining about how long my hair was and she was like just how there's no length cut off because she talks like a Gen.

1:01 Z person. That's how she says things. She says just how there's no length cut off. And that's a sentence to her. So that was what she said in response to my haircut, number one. And then #2 is that I had package ramen, March and ramen at 9:30 in the morning this morning, and that was how my day started. That's all I have.

1:19 I have two, I have two follow-ups. So first of all, no, they're they're they're conversation topics. I went out last night and buy out. I mean, Derek played a show that started at 6:30 and ended at 8:30. My favorite, my favorite show schedule in bed by 10. The fucking best. But he played at a bar in DC called the Bullpen. If you're from DC, you know what the Bullpen is. It's basically like the feeder bar into Nats Park. So before Nats games, people will go to the Bullpen. After Nats games, people will go to the bullpen. It's like, it's like, it's like Pickles in Baltimore. Basically.

1:55 It only exists because Nats Stadium is right there. OK. So it was me, our friend Shannon. Hey Shannon, you get a nice shout out and all these fucking wasted Gen. Z ers. And I was looking around and I was like, Oh my God. First of all, I feel so old. This is ridiculous. Second of all, everyone is smoking cigarettes again. I'm like, are we back to this?

2:16 Are we doing this? What is going on? Why is everyone smoking cigarettes? What is it? Everyone. I don't know if that anyone left nicotine. I just feel like we went back. To I just feel like we swung back to cigarettes and I'm, I don't know, I wasn't a fan of vaping either, but just I'm just like, why are we, why are we back on that? I don't know, I don't know.

2:34 And this I thought was really funny. Everyone also had digital cameras. So like everyone was taking like photos on their digital cameras and then taking photos on their phone. And I'm like, wait, why are we, why are we doubling up here? I don't understand what's going on, but that was like the moment I was like, oh fuck, I'm, I'm old.

2:52 Like I don't understand what's happening anymore with the youth. So I don't know what, I don't know what this is, but which is so. Interesting because you think that they could make at this point a digital camera that just like Bluetooth into your phone so that you could have. I assume the phone is for the instant gratification, which I can understand, but I like the photos that the digital camera produces better.

3:15 And I assume that's, I mean, if it were film camera, I would get it. But it's, it's digital camera. I don't get it I think. Digital cameras produce a different type of photo. The Apple presets are like so wild if they're not. Someone told me a hack and I forget it now, so if anybody remembers, please comment on it.

3:35 Somebody told me a hack to remove all your like all the presets. Oh yeah, your Apple camera. I need to do that because it's gotten insane. It's it's gotten to the point where I like point my camera at something and I like see everything changing and I'm like, why? Why are we doing this? Well, you know how fucked my phone camera is anyways.

3:55 You I can't talk about your phone. Wait, I had a second follow up before the Gen. Z questions about what's going on. What was this? What was the second thing we talked about? Can't remember. I ate ramen at 9:30 in the morning. Oh, yes. I was gonna say, was that a throwback to our days? All right, guys.

4:15 So there's a period of time where Ronnie and I, Ronnie and I have never lived in the same city, but there was a period of time where we were seeing each other every weekend, which was lovely. We were just, we always happened to be in the same city. And what would happen is that inevitably, no matter where we were, we were more fun.

4:31 These were our, these were our, not cigarette smoking, but these were our, you know, bullpen days, as it were. Ronnie would come over or I would go over to her place. And at some point during the day, terribly hungover, we would just order ramen. We would just order Robin from the nearest place. And then we would watch like hours of Disney movies. And then one time we did that and then we went for a 10 mile run, which was very impressive.

4:51 I don't think I could do that now. Certainly not. And I feel like normally the, I mean always the ramen was the first food of the day, Yeah, but it was ramen for breakfast pre like pre one PMI would say also yeah. I mean, I don't think we were eating ramen before 11:00 AM, but I think we might have had some 1130 ramens. Yeah, I don't think that the place opened before. Yeah, most people are not getting ramen for breakfast, but.

5:18 Shin Ramen Shin Ramen was not open before. Yeah. 11 AM. But so was that a throwback to our to our early 20s? I suppose. I mean, I also went out last night and woke up and was like, there's only one thing that I can eat right now and it's. The ultimate hangover cure. And I'm not, I'm not going to order it at 9:00 AM, but this is when I wake up now.

5:42 So that's what's happening. I just think there's such a market for ramen for breakfast for this exact reason. Like I, if you are a proprietor of ramen, I think you should consider on Sunday and Saturday mornings open up, opening up a little early for the breakfast crowd for the people who need that hit to get their day going. And from what I understand, I don't think it's so off base like I believe in, I know, I mean I know there are things that are more typical to eat for breakfast, but I believe that foods are not necessarily attached to morning versus afternoon in that culture as tightly as American culture. So please consider.

6:21 That's all I'm going to say. If someone opened up a ramen breakfast spot, I would go in a heartbeat. I would go immediately. Immediately. Yes, All right. I had one other banter topic. You know what? I am going to bring it up because if I don't bring it up now, we're never going to talk about it because it's topical. I can't stop crying about the Kentucky Derby. Just it was so good, like the producers did a great job this year.

6:47 No, but like I just, they really knocked it out of the. Park with that park most emotional one. Oh my God. Oh my God. OK so I think the last time I watched the Kentucky Derby was literally with you 8 years ago if you remember that trip to Florida. Yeah, years ago. Years ago, years ago. Time I watched.

7:04 I think it's the last time I cared. The only reason I watched it was because I was at the bullpen and they were like, oh, we're going to pause the show for a second because it's like a sports bra. We're going to watch the Kentucky Derby. And I was like, OK, I guess I'm going to watch the Kentucky Derby now.

7:17 Yeah, what a good race. I can't stop like the trainer, the jockey, the whole thing. I'm like, this is amazing. This is what sports are supposed to be like. I just, and you know, I cry at sports. So I just keep tearing up and I just so good. You should guys, if you haven't watched the Kentucky Derby, you should check it out. It is 2 minutes of pure.

7:37 Action 2 minutes of pure action. You heard it here first. It was great. It was so good. It was. Yeah. I loved it. Best 2 minutes of my of my weekend by far. Until we're except we haven't recorded yet. So now these are gonna some 2 minutes in here. Might be the best 2 minutes. So far, yeah. Best 2 minutes so far so far I feel. That all right, and with that, I'm Abby, I'm Ronnie and this is Dragons in the details.

8:04 We are officially back guys. We're so excited to be back. We hope you enjoyed our little re release episodes. We hope you enjoyed our Crescent City reactions episodes. We are back on our deep dives. I'm excited, but we'll keep going through the intro. So this is Dragons in the details, the podcast that helps you better understand your favorite fantasy books. Oh, we threw in a new word there. Your favorite fantasy books through a series. It's always been love deep dive episodes. That's my bad.

8:31 That's my bad. I'm bad at reading. I'm bad at reading. Welcome to our Crescent City season. It is here. We are so excited guys. I have never prepped as much as I've prepped for these two episodes. I have 50 pages of notes all in. It's going to be fucking wild. Strap in. This is going to be a crazy season. We're very excited.

8:52 Disclaimer before we jump in, this episode will contain. We're doing this a little differently this season. This episode will contain Crescent City and Acatar spoilers. So that is the full released books for both of them. If you're listening to this in the future, Aqatar 6-7 and eight have not been released yet.

9:10 So we're up through Aqatar 5, Crescent City 1-2 and three. Why are we doing this this way? 2 reasons we have never heard of a single person who has read Crescent City who hasn't read Aqatar. If you are that person, I'd like to hear about your experience. I'd. Like to talk to you I. Want to know what's going on?

9:28 I think you're probably very confused, but we welcome it. Second reason, we just wrapped our ACOTAR season, so most of you joining us have gone through ACOTAR with us. So if you are new, welcome. We so happy you're here. We're going to talk a lot about what we talked about in our ACOTAR season this season 2. There's obviously a lot of overlap, but if you ever want to go back and check out our actor episodes that those are streaming for your listening pleasure wherever you get your podcasts.

9:55 So just to recap, spoilers for all three published Crescent City books, that is House of Earth and Blood Sky and Brad's House of Flame and Shadow, all 5 published a guitar books. We are going to at the end have a full mass for spoiler section. Obviously the only thing we're missing now is Throne of Glass, but the same way we had in our a guitar season, we will have a little mass first Throne of Glass section at the end.

10:18 Sometimes that will be longer, sometimes that will be shorter. It'll depend on the topic. Second disclaimer, this podcast is rated R. Do not listen to it with your children or do if you want to, but we're telling you that it's rated R. We curse. These are spicy books. Each week we've dive into a specific topic in depth to kick off this season, for our first episode of this season. Because we are fucking crazy.

10:41 We are. It's a wild move. I don't know what we're thinking. We are tackling arguably 1 of, if not the most important topics in this series, the Starborn Faye. All right, guys, so this is our Starborn Faye deep dive. The reason we did this is because we think this is like the cornerstone of this series. If you're with, if you were with us in our actor season, you know what we're talking about.

11:04 We're going to keep talking about it today. More evidence We're actually focusing all this now. If you're new, buckle up, You're in for a fucking ride. I don't think you all have ever listened to a podcast episode like this before, but maybe you have. Either way, welcome. We come with receipts. It's kind of our thing. We have quotes to back up our theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical.

11:24 Ronnie announcements. Yes, as always, Deep Dive music brought to you by Schwidley SCHWOODLEY, Real music, real artists. Check them out on Spotify if you like our deep dive music. Also, we are shaking up our fun questions tradition from time to time. So send us your fun questions. We are, we are answering fun questions from you guys. So send those in via Instagram, TikTok, or our contact form on our website.

11:52 Those have been fun, super fun. And as always, if you listen on any platform and you do not subscribe in whatever format that platform supports, it would be great if you did. It means a lot to us. It helps us out, it helps us make great content for you guys. So we'd really appreciate it. Yeah, we've been getting a lot of requests for somehow more content. I don't know.

12:16 I don't know why you guys want to hear from us more. I feel like all we do is gap, but it's wonderful and we would love to do that for you. Obviously, the more subscribers we have, the more kind of engagement we have, the easier it will be for us to do so anything any if you look anywhere you listen to us guys, it really helps and we really appreciate it. All right, fun question this one as we talked about these are now submitted by you guys because I was really bad at coming up with fun questions.

12:42 Ronnie was pretty good at it, but I think we I think we think you guys are a little better at it. This question this week. So this is from Sphinxy. The question is, would you rather have a night out? How topical? Given our banter topic, how would you rather have a night out at Rita's, the White Raven or the UL Ball? If you guys don't know, the UL Ball is from Harry Potter, so that one's not quite mass verse, but I think people know what the UL Ball is.

13:08 I did not plan for this to be after we went out. I didn't plan either. However, after last night, I'm going to have to say a night out at Rita's. I think that's just my speed. I think that's where I'm at. I think night out at Rita's is the type of night for me. I think White Raven is a little bit too like Yule Ball is.

13:31 I can't be in a full face. It's a middle school. Ball. I'm not going to the Yule Ball. I think it's a high. It's like high school. Yeah, I guess like only half high school, half middle school. They all go like, no, I think to a. Certain age you don't go right. No, I think everyone went I. Don't know. I haven't no, because.

13:49 We read Harry Potter. Young people had to be invited if they were going to be a date, I'm 99% sure. But yeah, anyways, it's. For the youths. It's for the youths, yeah, Yeah. I would agree. I think the white Raven is too much for me. I'm I was going to say at this age, but honestly probably at any age. I was never really into like club clubs, you know the clue. I would have gone to the White Raven at a different time in my life, and I would have.

14:17 I don't know, Night out at Rita sounds fun. You're just kind of I, I feel like it's more like a wide jazz bar situation that then like turns into like like at midnight it becomes a little bit of a dance hall for like more and stuff, but. Yeah, you could go dancing, but you could also. I envision it as a place where you perhaps don't have to dance. Yes, you don't want to.

14:36 Yes, which I love. Yeah. All right. Great fun question. Thank you Sphinxy for submitting that. Thank you, Sphinxy. All right, Cosms from our last season, so if you guys are new cosms are correct, corrections, omission, social media shout outs. So this is sometimes we get things wrong, sometimes we miss things sometimes you guys just have great shout outs and we want to give you credit for that.

15:01 So I will start. So I posted a theory. We did our Azrael re release deep dive. I mean, in in the real world, we posted that on Thursday, today, Sunday. So it's quite fresh in your world. It was I think 2 weeks ago at this point. We posted our Azrael deep dive re release about shadows. Remember guys act our spoilers are fair game here. So this is going to be mostly Acatar with a little Crescent City thrown in.

15:26 We got a comment. A couple of people commented this, but I want to comment. I want to shout out the first person who commented it because it's like so obvious now, having gone back through Crescent City. I'm like, why didn't I think of this? But I think it's so great. So this was Midwest aftermath on Instagram posted.

15:40 It makes me wonder, sorry. Our as real theory was that his shadows come from hell. If you want to know more about that, you can listen to our our a guitar season Midwest aftermath on Instagram posted. It makes me wonder if one of the Princess came to as when he was imprisoned as a child when he needed hope. And I was like, I love this idea. Like why didn't I don't think we talked about this? Why didn't we think about this?

16:03 But like, obviously the Princess of hell come to hunt when he is imprisoned in a dungeon and talked to him. Could that have also happened with Azrael with any of the Princess of hell? Could even be the Princess of hell. We haven't met yet. And did were his shadows gifted as a result of that? Because Reece says that they don't know the origin of his shadows. They don't know if they basically if they came to him while he was in the dungeons, like they don't know where they came from.

16:27 So I really love that idea. It seems very obvious that someone has put it in front of me. So I think it's I think there's definitely merit to it. So shout out to Midwest aftermath. We love it. Or I love it. I love that. I think one thing, and we'll obviously talk about this more throughout this season, is like one of my open questions is on Prithean's like findability, if you will, and whether the Princess of Hell can find it any more easily than the hysteria can.

16:58 Who obviously can't. Because I'm pretty sure when they like, as Celine explains how they explained it, it was like, well, because Edis and Thea were mates, they were able to open this portal to each other's worlds. Whereas we know that Midgard and Hell have this kind of like slivered rift kind of perpetually between them.

17:21 But Hell can slip through. So I am that is one of the things that I am like, currently stewing on. But yeah, I mean, whether whether they were actually there or whether it was like dreamscape there or whatever. Yeah, totally think it would make sense if the Princess of Hell visited. I mean the Princess of hell being able to talk to people in dreams feels like it just completely opens up a totally new level to all of this.

17:48 Like what are the mechanics of that? Doesn't matter if the northern rift is open, can they talk to anyone on any planet at any time? Like. Like we'll explore do with being Damati. Yeah, I don't know. We'll explore. I don't have the answers right now. Good. It's good. I like it. It's good. I love it.

18:06 I have an exciting one from YouTube from CGS 9787 who is I believe Carolyn. And this one I I really liked and a lot of you really liked it too. I think this has one of the most the highest engagements from other people who aren't you know us on YouTube so far. And so this is what Carolyn wrote Ronnie Abbey and Dragons fans. I think I solved a mystery mentioned in this podcast, specifically the one of how Elaine just appears next to Highburn to save Cassians life.

18:43 This is very much a guitar. So sorry that it's all a guitar, but it's like that. It's that good. Like I do want to read it. It's with Grayson's ring. Remember? It was such a plot point that Elaine wouldn't remove the engagement ring. Elaine was wearing the ring when she went into the cauldron. That's Canon chapter 66. Agamath.

19:01 Thank you for the receipt Carolyn. We know, we know that made items forged from the cauldron can support travel, so this is likely how Elaine did it. Aaron suggests the magic and made items can respond to certain emotions. H244A Court of Silver Flames. Elaine's iron band was designed to protect.

19:19 Elaine sees Cassian's death and her desire to protect activates the magic. I think Sarah J Maas, out of a sense of irony, made the iron ring that's supposed to be useless into something powerful, which is symbolic of the character who wears it. Further to this, we assume Elaine doesn't want to give the ring back to Grayson because of her emotional devastation following the breakup.

19:39 I think that's true initially, but after Grayson rejects her, I suspect she withholds it because she knows something is different about it and doesn't want it in the wrong hands. In the bonus chapter, Elaine returns the necklace she received from Azrael, thereby proving she's willing to make that type of gesture. So why keep the ring?

19:53 Last week I posted about the bonus chapter necklace, so I'm clearly on a jewelry kick. Added note, I'm counting the references to Grayson's ring, and I've hit six so far in different novels. That suggests that. Even if we learn Elaine is more starborn than she currently appears, and she did indeed wheeled truth tell her this ring is coming back. I think this is really fun because I hadn't even considered like, yes, dipping metal.

20:14 Yeah, things into the cauldron has made Matt has made the trove so. Seemingly, seemingly. No matter. Seemingly, yeah. So no matter what, I mean, Vesper said that so well, I shouldn't say Vasper hasn't lied to us. We don't know whether Vasper said that. So no matter what Elaine has done with this ring, I think it's not unfair to assume that this ring could have real capabilities. So whether it's Truth Teller or whether it was the ring, I think something very interesting might come about from this ring. Whether it's how she appeared behind Highburn or not, I really like it.

20:50 I really like the theory, Yeah. I really like the idea of the ring being made. I like the idea of it coming back. I think, yeah, I don't have anything to happen. I like it. I like it. We like it, we like it all. Right. Are you ready for this deep dive run? This is going to be a big one. I'm kind of a bear. I'm going to try.

21:14 We we will try to prioritize and make it all make sense. We promise. I promise. I can't speak on behalf of Abby, but I promise. I've spent a lot of time thinking about a lot of these questions. I think I have it pretty organized in my mind. But we will. We will start. All right, all right, shall.

21:32 Shall we deep dive? Let's deep dive. OK. First question, Ronnie, we're starting real basic here. Maybe, I don't know. We'll find. Out this is the basic one. I think this is just like, what are the fake facts? First question, what are the Starborn Faye? What are we told? What are we told? What are we told that the Starborn Faye are?

21:58 So this is what we are told that the Starborn Faye are. So the Starborn Faye are a lineage of Faye with specific magical abilities, which we'll talk about in a different question, but we'll touch lightly on them here because they are pretty important in terms of designating who the star born are, who originated from the Dust Court on Prythian, specifically originating from Queen Thea's line.

22:26 And we learned this in a bunch of different ways, in a very roundabout way over like 1800 pages or whatever it is. However, probably the most direct way that we learn it is from Rydeless, where he tells Bryce directly. Your breed dwelled in a lovely verdant land rich with magic. If it's of any interest to you, your Starborn bloodline specifically hailed from a small aisle a few miles from the mainland. And while the mainland had all manner of climbs, the aisle existed in a beautiful near permanent twilight. So your Starborn bloodline that Bryce has hailed from this aisle that is dusk.

23:09 And we know that dusk aisle to be the prison, what is now the prison island on Prythian. So let's talk a little bit about what's considered Starborn on Midgard and then what Starborn is in terms of like kind of the grand scheme of things. Again, just what we're told. So to be considered star born on Midgard has a couple different flavors.

23:31 The most basic one, like Capital S Star born is basically you have to have enough of this bloodline to display Starlight and to wield the star sword. We'll talk about this more, but Queen Thea had a very specific flavor of Starlight. And while she passed on Starlight kind of genetically through her daughters Celine and Helena, she also stored her Starlight in places, and her specific Starlight can crop up in her bloodline. The important thing here is that that Bryce specifically has Thea's Starlight, and having stay at Thea's Starlight seems to matter even though Rune is also Starborn. Bryce specifically has Thea's Starlight. Rune seemingly does not, and it says Rune does not real Edith. No, Jezeba and Edith are talking

24:20 later. You can tell the difference between Bryce's Starlight and her brother. I shall never forget the exact shine and hue of Faye's light. It is still a song in my blood. Yes, so couple interesting. Yes, you are correct. Regulus also says at when he is disguised as Edith that that Bryce Andrew do not have the same Starlight which is interesting and what Rigela said again I think I can't remember if he's disguised as Atis but Rigela said your star born line hails from this Isle right?

24:49 Which implies to me there are other star born lines that like Bryce is one of them. They is one of them. They are not the only ones though. It's going to be a big what the fuck monkey Persian cat rude episode. So we are told that Bryce has they is Starlight, she is called Starborn. Rune is also called Starborn. They are both.

25:11 They both have Starlight Rune, obviously much less Bryce has a lot and they are both able to wield the star sword. The reason that Bryce having Thea's Starlight matters and the fact that they can both pick up the star sword matters is that again on Midgard, I'm talking like star born. On Midgard, you are considered star born if you are picking up that star sword. Like that's the test, right?

25:31 You go into The Cave of Princess, women aren't allowed, but like whatever. Bryce obviously is the most born here and in order to wield that Star Sword, it said that you need enough of Thea's Starlight, right? So we are told Thea endeavored to keep the Esteria from being able to wield her power to use the sword and the knife.

25:52 Both weapons were key to her power thanks to Thea's assistance in their making. Adas explained calmly. It is why the Star Sword calls to the descendants of Helena of Thea, but only to those with enough of Thea's Starlight to trigger its power. Your ancestors called these Fey Star Wars. The Osteria have no power over the blades. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:13 We'll talk about that later. Hold on, let's put in a disclaimer. I think this is important. This is specifically with this episode, this our first episode of the season. All of our thoughts on this will evolve. And this topic in particular is so big, we could not possibly cover everything in this episode, right? So guys, if you're like, wait, you didn't talk about that, we will talk about it.

26:31 Don't worry, we will. We just might not get to it this episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll just finish that sentence. The Osteria have no power over the blades. They lack they as connection to the weapons since the Star sword and the knife were both made by Thea at the same moment. Their bond has always linked them.

26:47 They have long sought to be reunited, and that is from real Atis. Actual Atis, not the star sword calls to Bryce very obviously. So Bryce is very much Starborn in the capacity that mid guardian Faye are calling Starborn people Starborn Rune can also pick up this star sword was also called to its location in The Cave of Princess.

27:11 What's going on with Rune Starlight? Probably more in the rune episode. We got a question later in this episode on that we'll talk a little bit more about it. But Starborn you got the Starlight. You got the Starlight. You're picking up that star sword at one point. It is believed right in in this series that only the chosen one or the air can do these things at any given time.

27:32 But we we learn and we know, right, that there were once multiple Starborn people at once and there can be people with this light existing at the same time, right? So Thea had the light. She also shared that light with Celine and Helena, who were her daughters. And so they were all considered Starborn.

27:52 Pelleus was also said to be Starborn. He did not actually actually have Thea's light, right? That did not happen. So yeah, he's a fake star born. Well, I wanna, I do wanna talk about this. I think this is really interesting, right? Because Ada says the quote is you just read this. But just for everyone's memory. It is why the Star Sword calls the descendants of Helena of Thea, but only those with enough of Thea's Starlight to trigger its power.

28:18 Your ancestors call these phase starborn, right? So you have to be a descendant of Thea to be considered starborn. On Midgard there are two people who wield the Star Sword who cannot be descendants of Thea, I think. I mean, I'd be really gross if they were. And that is Fionn and Pelleus, right? So we're we're told that Theon takes the sword and has it and Thea doesn't get it back until he dies and then we Pelleus kills Theo with the star sword.

28:47 So I don't quite know what's going on here. But they cannot be Starborn by that definition, because they're not descended from Thea. Totally. And maybe to clarify for everyone, Thea takes the sword from Theon, right? So she steals it from him. So I don't know. It's, I guess it's feasible that she could have keyed this power to her after she took it from him. Like she basically shouldn't murder him necessarily, but she did let him die very intentionally. It's basically she would have been charged for murder in court.

29:18 She would have been charged for murder in court. She didn't stab him, but she would have been charged. Yeah. And so I think in terms of that ordering right like they were, they were wed. So I would assume that she is not, you know, he is not descended from her line. Exactly. Right. So I think that one, we can, I don't know what's going on there.

29:39 I have no idea. I assume that she did something after the fact or this is just not true and we will learn that at a later time. Pelleus. No idea, No idea. No idea. No idea, no idea. Where did he get? Where did he get that power? I don't know. We'll talk about it. We will talk about it. Not this episode. We will talk about it.

29:56 Cool. OK. There are also telltale physical traits of Starborn Faye, which ruined Dannon possesses and it's kind of the Celine and Helena coloring, which is interesting, right, because they does not have this coloring. Those references come up a few times across the series and it's it's literally called telltale physical heritage. No sign of the star sword tonight and glancing at him beyond the telltale physical heritage of the star born line, little declared this is about rune that he'd been anointed by Luna or genetics Tasha or their people to greater heights. And then when he's marching into the the summit rune, a step behind his father was a shock to the senses and his princely raiment to the star sword at his

30:40 side. He could have very well been one of the first Starborn with that coloring of his. So rune with his like midnight hair against very similar traits to Selena and Helena and his very blue eyes is said to be telltale physical traits of Starborn Faye. These are also exactly what Reese looks like, right?

31:02 Exactly what Reese so we have Starborn on Midgard, which is Starlight and you can pick up the star sword, but we also have the starborn traits and we'll talk about kind of the other gifts that typically are associated with Starborn. But it also seems to be like it's just the group of people that come from hail from dust Court and not like lineage and what those people look like because if those are the telltale physical traits, that's exactly what Reese looks like.

31:30 That's what his kind of whole the line looks like, Selena said to look exactly like Reese's sister. Yeah, Well, I mean, I would say I think there's a Starborn line and that is the Descendants of Dusk, right? I, I think that's definitely true. But then there are people who are Starborn, who have the Starborn power. And the only people that are confirmed that we have in our entire mass first based on that definition are Thea, Celine, Helena, Bryce and Groom, right?

31:57 It's it's just those five. It's not Cormac, it's not Reese, it's not the murder twins. It's not more of an it's just those five people by the definition of both being descended from Helena, from Thea and having Starlight, right? I don't know that we never see Celine or Helena wield the Star sword, but they have. We know that they have Starlight. I am assuming that they would be able to but. Yeah, they say they have the light and even, I mean, yes, they say they have the light in the shadows. And Cormac says like, I displayed star born gifts that made me think I would have enough to yeah, like get the star sword.

32:33 So clearly they feel like they can draw correlations between these other gifts, winnowing, shadows, whatever with Starlight. But yeah, he's not by the Midgard definition, not considered star born. Neither is anybody except for Bryce and Roon on Midgard. And then, yeah, Celine, Helena and Thea. Yeah. And I guess Pelleus, technically by Midgard definition is considered starborn.

32:59 We'll talk about. Pelleus another time. I have so many questions about that man. Yeah, and there are a bunch of starborn Princess who are who are dead that are called *. We don't know anything about. Them, We don't know anything about them. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Abby, what is Starfire? So. I just kind of generally answered, what is their power? All right, so first thing, so Star War and Faye have Starlight.

33:22 Let's just talk briefly about what Starlight is and then we'll get into Starfire. They are said to be able to summon the light of a star. So the quote for that, we have House of Earth and Blood chapter 14. The first star born Prince could blind an enemy with a flash of his Starlight. You can barely summon A sparkle for an instant. So that is the Autumn King talking to Rune. This is about Pelleus again.

33:44 So I don't know if this is true, but basically this is what we are told. We are told and we see Bryce do this as well, right? Basically, we are told that the Star Born line on Midgard, thus far their power has been blinding people, right? And that's it. Just blinding people. Just being able to summon Starlight and it's light and that's it, right?

34:03 So more quotes we have for that. The Star Born line had bred true twice. Rune's face drained of color as he remained kneeling and beheld his sister at the blazing gate. What she declared to the world, what she'd revealed herself to be. Bryce possessed the light of a star such as hadn't been witnessed since the first wars.

34:22 Jezebel looked like she'd seen a ghost. Fury gaped at the screen when the flare dimmed. What? Hunt's breath caught in his throat. So it's just the light of a star, right? That is what the Star Warren power is believed to be. I like they're making a big fucking deal over light. Don't really know why this was seen as so important. It was basically just important to the fact until. Until Bryce goes to Prythea and claims the second third of Thea star right?

34:47 At which point she has Starfire quote for that. As I'd say you had a third of Thea's power already. The part that originally was given to Helena that came down to you through Helena's bloodline and you took another third from where Celine stashed it. So the when she just had the 3rd through Helena's bloodline she had light. Now that she takes Celine's she can start to cut through things. I'll just continue reading, but if you can find the last third, the part that they are originally kept for herself, I wonder how your light might appear then, what it might do. You knew Thea?

35:19 Bryce said. You tell me. I believe you've already begun to see some glimpses of it. Ada said. Once you attained what Celine had hidden. Bryce considered the laser power. Ada's laughed. Thea called it Starfire, but yes. And that is House of Flame and Shadow chapter 60. So basically once she gets this second third of Thea's star, she is able able to wield the light as a laser.

35:41 I'm just going to keep going because I didn't answer this question correctly, but I think there's interesting things to talk about here. So basically Starfire at its most basic, you can wield the light as a laser when Bryce gets the third part of Thea star from a Volin right at that point. At that point she can activate the power of the truth teller of truth teller and the star sword. So quote we have for that is Thea endeavored to keep the Esteria from being able to wield her power to use the sword on the knife.

36:07 Both weapons were key to her power. Thanks the Thea's assistance and they're making you just read this. It is why the Star Sword calls the descendants of Thea, but only with those only to those with enough of Thea's Starlight to trigger its power. Your ancestors called these Fey Starborn. We just talked about this. That power is basically creating a black hole, right? And we will do a whole nother episode on truth teller and Star Sword right?

36:30 But once she has all three pieces of this Star of Thea Star, she can suddenly create a black hole when she reunites Star Sword and Truth Teller. So those are kind of the big three. We have piece 1, which is just the light. We have piece 2, which is Starfire. And then we have piece 3, which all of a sudden she can create a black hole.

36:50 That seems like a big jump, but obviously we have some magic blades kind of tossed in there. So those are like our big three star Warren powers. We have other auxiliary powers that are thrown in here as well that Cormac mentioned. I'll just run through them quickly. So we have shadows, right? The Starborn line has shadows.

37:08 We see Celine, Helena ruined, Cormac, the Murder twins and Reese all have shadows. Thea and Bryce do not. But much of our Starborn line has shadows. We have mind speaking right slash de Mahdi. So the quote we have for that is Bryce said the Starborn could mind speak. We kind of have a question there like can they actually mind speak?

37:27 This is Bryce herself doesn't seem to be able to mind speak. But we know that Reese is a full de Mahdi. We know that Reese is of the Starborn line. We haven't actually talked about this, but we know that Reese is of the Starborn line because his blood is key to the prisons and Celine said only her the her descendants blood would be key to the prison. So Reese's of the star born line, Celine seems to be a full day Mahdi.

37:50 The quote we get for that is my story begins before I was born. The female's voice was heavy, weary, tired and sad. During a time I know of only from my mother's stories, my father's memories. She lifted a finger to the space between her brows. Both of them showed me once mine to mine, so I shall show you. So we seem to have confirmation that Celine is a full day Mahdi. We know that Reese is a full day Mahdi. The murder twins on a violin are also full day Mahdi, even despite the parasite, right?

38:18 Which is kind of crazy. So quotes we have for that are when we're introduced to them, we get but Rune Flynn and Declan Glauer, like they recognize the approaching males, both towering an arm to the teeth. They were clearly twins, The murder twins Rune had mentioned, capable of prying into minds as they saw fit. So they can fully read minds even though Rune can't, and they later control Saffia's body, which is very. I mean, that's what Reese does to Farah under the mountain, right?

38:46 So one heartbeat. Sofia was wide eyed and monitoring the showdown. The neck. She'd snatched a knife from Fairy inside and howled it against her own throat. Stop it. Fairy and snarled towards the twins who were snickering. Sofia's hand shook and she pressed the dagger and her neck a little harder, drawing a trickle of blood.

39:04 So they are forcing her to hold a knife to her own throat. So and we seem to have a lot of Damati in our Starborn lineage, but not everyone. There Bryce at one point and again like Sarah does this a lot. She will hide shit in sex beans to distract you. That's the thing that she does at one point she is saying things and we got the classic. She must have voiced her thoughts aloud because blink. It is possible, yes.

39:32 I wouldn't be surprised if once she has more time without the parasite that she finds that she does have like some mind speaking I. Definitely think that's possible, but I think that Thea was not a De Madi and we'll get into that in a later question. I agree. So it's very interesting, right? So obviously, yeah, Celine certainly was, Helena probably not definitely.

39:54 And then Rune obviously can mind speak, but cannot mind me. That might be because of the parasite, might be he doesn't have it, we don't fully know. Cormac definitely wasn't Damati, even though he's of the Starborn line. Okay, wait, maybe. No, no, no, he I don't know about Pormac, honestly. Like it's, it's completely possible, but I don't think he would have sought out Rune if he were, because that was the whole yeah, exactly.

40:19 But on Helena, when they're in the tunnels in a Vollen, Bryce says. And again, This is why the definition of Starborn on Midgard pisses me off. But Bryce says the star born could mind speak still can and she nodded up toward the river a level above with the murder twins lurking somewhere on his other side.

40:39 Maybe it was maybe the salt helped her mind speak with hell. Maybe someone in hell can tell us how to kill the hysteria of Holly and himself. 8 Sirius. Maybe he's had the answer all along. And that was Helena like Helena was in those tunnels. So maybe it was. I mean, we know that we know the Princess of hell just like do this and they kind of just speak to you in your mind.

40:59 But it's seeming like it's possible that it's it's it's possible that Helena had this ability. Yeah, I, yeah, I actually have the exact same quotes. I said, though, I have the exact same quotes. But then Bryce is able to mind speak with hell the same way. And I wouldn't characterize Bryce's day Mahdi.

41:18 So I think it's an open question. Yeah. I look forward to this. I think it's going to be fun. Yeah. So we'll see. I don't know, maybe Bryce is Damati, but definitely Damati is kind of an auxiliary power of this star born line. We also have winnowing, right? So obviously Bryce and Cormac can winnow.

41:40 She calls it teleporting, but it's winnowing. We get confirmation when she goes to Prythea and they say we call it winnowing. At one point Bryce says you can call it whatever you want. And I wrote in a comment, this is before she goes to Prithea and I want to call it winnowing. So, you know, we're good. Amarin confirmed it.

41:55 Thea could also winnow, we think. This is in House of Flame and Shadow chapter 21. We get the quote. The very enemies my mother had slaughtered and enslaved, she now needed. Their final stronghold lay at Parthos, were all scholars and thinkers of their day, had holed up in the Great Library. And so it was Parthos. It was to Parthos we went next, winnowing over under the cover of darkness.

42:17 This is about Celine, Helena, and Thea all winnowing to Parthos. Not completely clear which one of them is doing this, but I think it was Thea based on things that happened later in the first wars. But at least one of them was winnowing. So it is something to do with the Starborn line I think we can assume. But then obviously of course Rune can't win a hoe and we get no indication that the murder twins can winnow. But we have Bryce, Cormac and Reese being able to winnow. And then the last one is healing, kind of. I'm not 100% sure that this is the Starborn power. When Rune takes the antidote, he suddenly has healing power. Oh, the quote for that is warm bright magic. Answered Healing magic, rising

43:00 to the surface as if it had been dormant in his blood. He had no idea how to use it, how to do anything other than will it with a simple save him an answer. Light poured from his hands, and he could feel therian's flesh and bone knitting back together beneath his fingers, mending healing. So that is House Flamish out chapter 94. Bryce.

43:18 Obviously when she makes her drop, the first light that she kind of generates that is released from her drop at the gate heals everybody in the city for the most part. So I think it's kind of unclear if that was first light or if that was her power somehow healing everyone. I'm totally willing to buy that. That was First Light, but Ruined definitely has this healing ability.

43:40 Whether that's related to his Starborn heritage, I don't know, but it's light and it's healing, so I don't know. I think that's one. That's a potential one. We'll put it in the potential category. Anything I missed? I realized we were just supposed to talk about Starfire, so I apologize. Yeah. I mean I did all of it later, but I agree. I mean, I think on healing like it's one that we see in the Night Court in Prithean.

44:03 So regardless of whether it's a quote Starborn ability or whether it's just from the fact that their lineage is from Prithian, I think either way, like yes, the answer is yes to that. Couple other things on Starlight. So we talked about Starlight in general and Starfire. The Starlight is just light, but it does react to things, right? Like it is said to be by rageless and then it kind of does this like it proves it out right underneath, underneath the human city and the prison said to be like a beacon for the home world of the fae and also for Bryce's quote champions like whoever that may be.

44:50 So it kind of shines for Cormac, it shines for Hunt. It shines for anybody that seems to be Bryce's that has Bryce's interests at heart. How that works don't fucking know, but it it does prove to be true when Bryce is under the human city in Ho Fast Chapter 5. Bryce turned towards one of the tunnels, trying to better see what lay beyond.

45:13 The star in her chest dimmed, like her magic was rapidly fading. She whirled toward the other tunnel, trying to see what she could before the magic vanished. The star flared brightly again. Huh. She murmured. Bryce turned back the other way. The star faded to the opposite side. It brightened. So is it because she's facing a core of first light and then away from it?

45:31 I don't know, but it does seem to be like very much, yeah, a beacon of some sort toward the star born world, like the star born stronghold and does does react to hunt Cormac the Beast and the Pit, that sort of thing. She can also like do weird things with it before she claims the second third of light.

45:55 Like she can ball up Starlight and like throw it places and stuff like that even before she has. Really. I don't remember. I remember her taking it out of her chest but I don't remember her like throwing it. Ho Fest Chapter 5 Bryce willed Starlight to her hand and held it up. Nothing but emptiness waited below.

46:12 Bryce fisted her palm, bawling the Starlight into an orb and dropped it down. Yeah. And then Oh yeah, you're right, yeah, I don't know. So it does have like, interesting. I don't know. It's more than just like light flaring out of her chest and she probably could have found more uses from it if she had only had that for longer, which maybe maybe is what the star born Princess or like whatever whoever had the Starlight before her was doing with it because they clearly had nothing else. Yeah, I think that was the only thing on Starlight. Oh, and for Starfire, I mean, I think the only thing additional that I had was that we're told specifically that the darkness is what gives it shape into

46:58 Starfire, right? Specifically the darkness of the dusk power. We're told the darkness of Celine's dash, Thea's dusk power, giving it shape, transforming it into that Starfire. So yes, it is the second third of Thea's power that gives her this Starfire ability, but also that is part of the power that gives her this shadow inside her Starlight as well.

47:24 And that is what for some reason is able to give her Starfire, which is interesting. Yeah. I'm gonna do a slight aside here because Derek and I were talking yesterday. This was actually wild. And he was like, Oh yeah. So I watched this YouTube video today with Neil de Grasse Tyson where he was talking about matter and antimatter and what happened when, if if matter and antimatter collide and then what happens from that?

47:44 And I said, you need to send me that YouTube video, right? Fucking that. I need to watch that. Yeah. Oliver, just to say, I do think we'll get into that. We're going to dive into the prism thing, whatever's happening there, I think at length and a different episode. But yes, it does seem interesting to me. It's not only that Theo like divided her star, right? It's like she gave specific pieces. Like the three pieces of the star are not the same. It seems like, right?

48:10 Like Celine's was darker. For whatever reason. Celine's part of her star was darker. We don't know what her Starlight looks like now that she's got Helena's piece of it. I hope we find out. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You mean Thea's piece of it, right? Yeah, Thea's piece that, yeah.

48:28 That Helena, like, hidden, stashed in the ball on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. The Autumn King was the only person who was telling Bryce the truth the entire time, and we fucking lost him. I'm mad about it. She really shouldn't have killed him like that. Man, had some fucking answers. Rune, you got to cool it for five seconds, man.

48:53 Oh yeah. Rune did kill him, I forgot. About. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I also just want to like this is this is not, we're not going to answer this now, but I'm just going to say it. For some reason, Damati powers work outside of Gorsian shackles. What? What is Gorsian stone made of? That Daimani power is just like don't care.

49:16 Yeah, but his shot root. So what Ronnie is referencing is that in the dungeon when Rune is being tortured, his mind speaking works. Like he's still able to talk to Lydia. Lydia could talk to him, but his shadows don't and they seem to have the same source of their power, which is the Star Born line.

49:34 So why? Why is 1 blocked on the other? I said I don't know. Yep. I don't know. Yep. Yep. Yes. Yeah. And that's how fast she knew he could communicate, even with the Gorsian stones, halting his magic and slowing his healing. Knew he'd done so with his sister before Bryce had escaped. Pieced out.

49:50 Yeah. All right. OK. I will have more to talk about on the other stuff later because we have a question about it, but I'm good for now if you were. Good. OK, OK, All right. So this is probably our big question. This is probably the the big the meat of the episode we're going to get to here strapping Ronnie.

50:09 What do we think? And we can think different things. It's OK if we think different things. What do we think the Starborn Faye actually are? And if you're new here, welcome. This is when it's going to get a little crazy. So the Starborn Faye do in fact in this case seem to originate from Thea. That's pretty much where I think the honesty ends. But we have and this this will not be new to I think most listeners who have come to with us from actor Thea seems to have gotten her power from Besperous, most likely genetically. And here's a quick recap of why we think that plus some more compounding evidence.

50:52 I think we'll both have more compounding evidence. And then I have a slight A slight deviation or not deviation but like sidebar. Yeah. Vesper speaks about Thea with intense familiarity, right? Says she allowed Thea to convince her to lay down, to rest, that she raised her from childhood right?

51:11 So this is all in House of Flame and Shadow chapters 24 and 25 ish. For a heartbeat it was the creatures best versus turn to blink as if a memory had cleared. She said more to herself than them. They was so charming that day. Told me I look tired and to replenish myself in the crystal here above the well. But she sealed me within and said to let me starve to death over the eons.

51:32 Weird thing to do to just take, like, a suggestion from a fae if you did not, you know, trust them implicitly. And she also says it would have been a mercy to kill me. Thea did not understand the word. I raised her from childhood not to. Why are you raising a fae from childhood? We know nothing about Thea's parents.

51:52 You know nothing about Thea's parents. Yeah. Vespers claims to be the Evening Star. This is important. It's very important. It's also important that there's two evening stars, but we'll talk about that, I think in a different episode, but Vesperus claims to be the Evening Star. She says you may call me Vesperus.

52:07 The creature's eyes glowed with irritation. Are you related to Hesperus Bryce Archibra at the name so similar to one of mid guards, Esteri, the Evening Star. I am the Evening Star. Vesperus seethed. So she says she's the evening star. They as children look exactly like Vesperus. Vesperus has moon white skin, impossibly dark hair, crushing blue eyes. And Celine and Helena are both pale night haired and have those blue eyes as well.

52:33 And those are the classic star born traits, right? Those tell tale traits that we talked about in the first question. Those are Vesper. Those are Vesperus traits. That's exactly what exactly what she looks like. And then again back to the Evening Star being important. Celine says that her son glowed with the light of the Evening Star, and says that it came from her. And the Evening Star is Vespers's power, right? And that is is again from ho fast. Yet when my first son was born, when the babe screamed and the sound was full of night, I brought him to the prison and keyed the wards into his blood.

53:06 No one knew that the infant who sometimes glowed with Starlight had inherited it from me, that it was the light of the Evening Star, the Dusk Star. So that I mean that is like Celine's child is vesperous as descendant, Selena's vesperous as descendant and therefore Thaya needs to be best versus descendant as well. I think they definitely have the same power. I just want to play a little devil's advocate. I think what we can say from that sentence is that they absolutely have the same power, right? It is.

53:33 It is the light of the evening Star. And what Sarah does so fucking brilliantly here is we get Celine's entire monologue right and she says no. It like no one knew it would be the Starlight he inherited for me, that it was the light of the Evening Star are the Dust Star. We have not met Vesperus yet, right?

53:48 Vesperus has not said I am the Evening Star. So we haven't put it together. There has been no reason to put it together yet until you go back and you say, oh holy shit, it's the Evening Star. So they all have the same Starlight, no question. There is no question about that. Yes, they all have the same power and it is also, I think just to be fair, maybe should be fair to devil's advocate things.

54:11 The common denominator is the power of the land, right? It is not absolutely Lesperis and it is not the fae. It is the land. Besperis says I drank the Land's magic and the Land's magic drink from me and Thea also gets her magic like her magic is the Land's magic. And that is what is so special about Prithian as well is like the land is ripe with magic. And that's a theme that we're seeing in these books too, right?

54:35 Like of all ends Earth magic is released. So is it completely possible that this is not actually magic from Asteri, it is magic of the land that the Asteri are drinking and that they is somehow also drinking? Totally. But I think the question is how are they both drinking this power? Like how are they both? Exactly.

54:56 Absorbing this power. Which brings us to the compounding evidence, which is like Bryce needs to be charged up. Just like the Asteri. She needs her reserves restored, right? So Hunt is her battery. Azrael can also charge her. Any power really can charge her, but certain power is better than others. Hyperxia can charge her.

55:16 She gets her power from the first light in the gates. That's how she makes the drop, which is basically 1,000,000 tithes, right? It's people in the gates of Lunathi. And just for context in case this is like a pretty minor detail I didn't remember until I wrote it down, but like everybody drops power into these gates like wishes on a wishing well.

55:36 And that is how the gates have this power. And when Bryce makes the drop she puts her hands on the gates and claims all of that first light from the gates. So the massive amount of power that she claimed is actually the first light of like probably millions of citizens of Lunathion giving their first light over crazy amounts of of time. Starborn Faye can wield Asteri made items like the trove just as easily as the Asteri can.

56:01 I would argue that Bryce can wield the mask even more easily than Nesta can. Like Nesta needs to be coerced to take it off. Bryce is just like, I'm good. I'm done with it. Yeah. And of course she can wield the horn as well. The Starfire is comically similar to Rygelis's destructive power that he's blasting at Bryce as she is running out of out of the Eternal City and into Prythean.

56:31 So there's there is a lot of outside of just the Evening Star evidence, which again, I do not personally think is the nail in the coffin because I think the common denominator is the land. There are the similarities of Bryce needing power to use power. I think it's the link to the Osteri. Do you have anything to add?

56:53 I'm sure you do to this. I have so much. I have so much. I have about 15 reasons why this works and I have like 3 that don't, so I'll try to go through them quickly. I think we've covered the evening star thing. It is the idea that Thea Celine, Celine's son, and Bryce, when Bryce claims her power for her second third of Thea star, she says power uncut and ancient, scorched through her veins. The hair on her head rose, debris floated upward. She was everywhere and nowhere.

57:24 She was the Evening Star and the last rays of color before dark, right? So now Bryce has that evening star in her as well, right? So we have Vesperus, Thea, Celine, Celine Son, all of them. This power of the Evening Star, which almost certainly comes from the land of Prythian. So it's exactly what you said. It's that ability to absorb this power is what seems to be common between the Esteri and the Star 11. Sorry, one more devil's advocate point. I don't think I think you've already disproven this, but we do have an item that can transfer power from one person to the other.

57:59 So even if again, the genetics like the genetic links are there, but the harp can move power from one person to the other. So Thea could in theory have stolen this. It is possible. It it might not be genetic, but it is certain. Race from childhood? I don't know. It's certainly a Steri ass. So let's talk about the ability for Bryce to amplify her power with other people's magic, right? We know the Asteri.

58:26 This is the Asteri playbook, right? The Asteri do not have any power of their own. What they do is they absorb magic from other people and that makes them stronger, which is when Azrael charges Bryce up, She he's like, Are you sure? I'm about to hit you with my raw power, which to a non star born person would injure them, possibly kill them, right? She's like, yeah, just hit me on my chest and she can absorb that power, right.

58:52 So we have like that is the same as the Esteri, right? We later see vespers do the exact same thing to wield the the star sword. Azrael hits her with his power and she takes it and she uses it to wrap her hands around the star sword, right. So same idea of that power absorption. I have a couple quotes here which in my mind make it like like the the links are so strong. So we talked about her drop.

59:16 Bryce absorbs all of that power in her drop and it amplifies her non existent power, right? So Bryce had no power until she absorbed power from people until she absorbed first light from people, exactly the same as the Esteri, right? So the quotes for that are. Declan squinted at the screen. She's gaining speed. He shook his head.

59:37 But but she's classified as low level, near net negligible if he felt like being a Dick about it right, so Bryce has no power until she absorbs it and then we get. Declan's breathing was uneven as he murmured the power of the gates, the power given over by every soul who has ever touched it, every soul who was handed over a drop of their magic.

59:55 He tried and failed to calculate just how many people over how many centuries had touched the gates in the city had handed over a drop of their power like a coin tossed in a fountain made a wish on that drop of yielded power. Right. So then she's able to be. Super mega charged up basically right?

1:00:11 Like she is able to wield all of this power. The gates of the crystal are a conduit. She is absorbing the power from the gates. We see the Asteri sit on crystal Thrones in the Crystal Palace to absorb first light right? No one else can do this only the starboard Faye and the Asteri can do this right?

1:00:31 That is just that is like an undeniable fact about this right, all right, so bright. So Declan also says she's literally a gate herself. The quote forget we have for that is so your magic beyond the light I mean needs to be powered up. It relies on first light or any other form of energy you can get.

1:00:51 You're literally a gate. You can take in power and offer it, but it seems the similarity ends there. The gates can store power indefinitely, while yours clearly Peters out after a while. Even after Bryce gets her third piece of Thea, Star Hunt still needs to charge her up in the final battle. He does it a couple times and he does it for opening the Northern Rift. So it is not like oh she only had 2/3 of her power. Even when she has all of it, she continues to need to be charged up, just like Thea Steri.

1:01:22 So we have quotes where she uses the exact same language to describe herself and to describe the Asteris. So what Bryce says is I need a charge like a battery, Bryce said, the scar on her chest growing faintly. That's Sky and breath. Chapter 55. Bryce had no weapons, nothing beyond the magic in her veins, the Arkeesian amulet around her neck and the horn tattooed in her back. But to wield it, she needed some power, needed to be fueled up like some stupid fucking battery as flame as shadow. Chapter 1.

1:01:50 And then I'm pretty sure the concept of a battery won't have much meaning here. But yeah, my magic can be amplified by someone else's power. The other end, Trent untranslatable word battery lay heavy on her tongue. So she's called herself a battery three times. She calls herself she calls the Asteria battery, right. So this area was 7 levels below in the throne room where the Asteria sat on crystal Thrones did those Thrones filled them with power in plain sight.

1:02:13 They fueled up like batteries sucking in this first light. Same thing, same thing, right? And then she also calls both herself and the Asteria A Leech. So she says with the for the Asteria, she says with this, what Danica had learned in her studies on bloodlines, that they'd all come from elsewhere, but had been lured and trapped here and then fed on by these immortal leeches. So that's about the Asteria and then about herself, Bryce when And then when she's talking to Declan, he says, Bryce, when you draw from a source, it's the same way the gates that power from people using them to communicate. Bryce blanked.

1:02:46 So I'm like some magical Leech. So we have Leech, we have battery right? The charging up process also looks exactly the same for Bryce and Vesperous. So for Bryce we have Hunt screamed as Bryce left in front of his power as his lightning hit the black blade exploding from the metal flowing into her arms, her body, her heart.

1:03:06 Light flash, blinding. No, that was Bryce for Vesperous, same language, light shot up the asteris legs into the her body, a blinding flash. And then it's like copy and paste, same, same 2 sentences, right? Vesperus confirms that Thea could have also charged herself up, but Vesperus never taught her how to do it.

1:03:27 Because Vesperus knows how to do it, right? Because it's the same power. So the quote is Thea had the gift Vesperus said but did not understand how to claim the light. That's what Bryce is doing here, right? She's claiming additional light. I made sure never to reveal how during her training, how she might light up entire worlds if she wished, if she sees the power to amplify her own. But you, Light Stealer, she must have possessed, she must have passed the gift down to you, and it seems you have learned what she had not.

1:03:54 So Vespers has just told Bryce that they had pockets of their light, of their power throughout the land, but she never taught Thea how to claim it. But Bryce knows how to claim it because it's the same thing. OK, you mentioned the trove. I just want to get into this a little more because the quotes are actually crazy. Not only can she wield the trove, it speaks to some part of her magic.

1:04:16 So Vesperus tells us the Asteria made the trove, right? We that is confirmed. We have that quote. She says those of us who ventured here found ways to amplify that power thanks to the gifts of the land. We pulled our power and imbued those gifts into the cauldron so that it would work our well. We made the trove from it.

1:04:34 The Esteri made the trove, something Sarah does, something really interesting here, which I, I think a lot of, not a lot of people have picked up on. When we learn about the horn, we are told the horn at first is imbued with starborn power, right? So the quotes we have for that is the shadows veiling them rippled because Prince Pelleus's starborn power was woven into the horn itself.

1:04:56 And it's in my blood. My father thinks I might have some sort of preternatural gift to find it. He admitted when I was bribing browsing the archives last night, this book just jumped out at me. So star, we're being told starborn power is woven into the horn. And then we later learned the Asteri made the horn, right? It mentions here that the sacred objects were made only for fae like them.

1:05:17 That the horn worked only when that Starlight Starlight flowed through it, that it when it was filled with power. This claims that the starborn magic, in addition to a bunch of other crap, can be channeled through the sacred objects, bringing them to life. But the Asteri made it so it's a stereo magic. It's not Starborn magic that it is the same magic, right? And then with the mask, I think this is probably like the craziest one.

1:05:39 The star inside her flared brightly as if to say hello, old friend. Yes. The ancient magic knew the mask. It understood its deepest secrets, right? It's her magic is saying, old friend, you are, you are me and I am you, right? Like this is like, like calls to like basically, right. Yeah, she also is able to overrule its pull towards an asteri. So this is at the end of Frost and not for us to start. Like Flame and Shadow, we have dead and undead. Rigeless's nature confused the mask. Alive and not alive, Breathing and not breathing. We'll get into that at another time. Not right now.

1:06:17 It couldn't get a grip on the Bright Hand, and it seemed to be recoiling a pulling away from Bryce. She focused. You obey me. The mask halted and remained in her thrall. So Rigeless isn't Asteri literally trying to pull an Asteri made item away from Bryce and Bryce with her star war in power is able to say no, you belong to me, right?

1:06:40 So those are probably the big three. And then I have a lot of like supporting evidence for why this works. Do you want to? I think you're about to get into the shadows and everything. Should I keep going with the ties to the Asteri I'm. About to get into shadows. I have one more on like the. I mean, just the number of times that Bryce herself questions like, am I like the Asteris? And the number of times that people don't give good reasons that she is not like, like I think the biggest one is Starfire.

1:07:09 Like she, she's like, is it the same as the Asteris? And Napoleon says no. They're similar in their ability to destroy, but the Asteris power is a blunt, wicked tool of destruction, Adas added, eyes shining with sympathy. Why would he feel bad? Why would he feel bad if it weren't? If the answer weren't yes, Starfire's ability to destroy is but one facet of a wondrous gift. The greatest difference, of course, lies and how the bearer chooses to use it.

1:07:38 So yes, Starfire does have the ability to destroy because it is the same power and the Astiri don't use it for these other things. But you could and they are the same. And Ada's feels bad because? So I do want to be clear, there are a couple reasons why this doesn't work. I'm going to get into all the other reasons why it does work that I have been able to find thus far because I think this is a really important argument to make. And then we'll talk about why it doesn't. And then we'll get to the shadows because the shadows are very important.

1:08:05 OK OK. All right. We talked about this in ACOTAR. She, Bryce, has Vesperous's crown of stars. OK, So the quote for that is we see a portrait of Vesperous in the caves under the prison. The quote is this hand that had claimed the power lifted, and Bryce still does. The memory zoomed out to reveal the hands Bearer. A black hair and white skin.

1:08:24 Asteri. There was no mistaking the cold, otherworldly eyes. She lounged in golden robes, a crown of stars upon her head. We later meet Vesperous. She has black hair, pale skin. She's wearing golden robes. It is the same as dairy. This is a portrait of Vesperous, right? Hunt sees Bryce wearing a crown, crown of stars twice in Ho Fast in a Volun.

1:08:46 Her chin lifted and he could have sworn a crown of stars glimmered around her head. I want to wipe them off the face of the planet. She said, and though her voice was sofhing but pure predatory rage filled it. That's chapter 65. And then we have a sorry, I don't know what chapter that is. I don't think it's 65.

1:09:03 We have, I promised myself that day. Micah, cut off your wings. Bryce said, still just for him, that they'd pay for it for what they've done. Starlight flickered around her head in a shadow of that crown of stars. So we have Bryce wearing and a series crown of stars. Could be because they both have claimed the power of the Evening Star.

1:09:18 Could be a genetic link right The Daglin hounds. You mentioned this before bow to her. All right so quick recap on how we know these are Daglin hounds. So the description we have in Hofas arriving sea of black scaled bodies silver by her light appeared. We get confirmation that these are are the beasts of the Esteri in Celine's carving. So the quote is a field of corpses had been carved into the wall, a battlefield stretching ahead. Crucifixes loomed over the battlefield, bodies hanging from them.

1:09:48 Great dark beasts of scales and talons. The ones from beneath the pit of her cell, she realized with the shutter feasted on screaming victims. So Bryce literally encounters, we call them Daglin towns because that's what they call them in ACOTAR. Bryce literally encounters a pit of Daglin hounds. And then you talked about this before, but we have she rallied her power, but nothing, only enough to keep the star glowing on her chest. No teleporting then.

1:10:14 And the floor of the pit was covered with these things, all smelling her, assessing her but not advancing. Like something about them gave about her, gave them pause, made maybe it also meant something to these creatures, blah blah blah. The star kept glowing, pointing the way. The creature settled as if her emotions were theirs.

1:10:32 She willed herself to calm, to feel No Fear. The creature settled further. Some laid their heads down. She glanced at the star in her chest, still glowing brightly. They are your champions too. It seemed to say that a steri hounds are her champions because she has a like I just that seems it's pretty self-evident, right? Like she is their master.

1:10:52 They are recognizing her as their master. And then later it literally says they lay before her like obedient dogs. She didn't question it. Whenever Sarah puts in, she didn't question it. That means you're supposed to question it. You're supposed to wonder, why are these asterihounds bowing to Bryce's Starlight? Yeah.

1:11:09 She calls herself Made. I don't know that we need to go into this one too much but made things mean that they were made by the Osteria. So we talked about this a lot in our Acatar season. Nesta and Elaine are made because they went into the cauldron with the Steri corrupted power quote. We pulled our power and imbued those gifts into the cauldron so that it would work our well.

1:11:28 We made capital M the Tro from it. Bryce later calls her power made. So what she says this is when her and Hunt exchanged powers during sex. She says it felt like my power went into you. Hunt said, eyes tracking the lightning as it slithered, slithered down on her body. It's yours, and mine is yours, she said, touching a Fleck of Starlight glittering between the sable walks of his hair.

1:11:49 I feel weird, he admitted, but didn't move. I feel she sensed it then, understood it at last. What it had always been, what she'd learned to call it in that other world made with a capital M. Right? So she says. Hunt is saying, I have your power. I feel weird, she's saying. You feel made other things.

1:12:07 And I really love some of these. So Vesper says. Vesper says there are certain places girl that are better suited to hold power than others. Places where the veil between worlds is thin and magic naturally abounds. Our light thrives in such environments, sustained by the regenerative magic of the land.

1:12:26 She despered around. She gestured around them. This island is a thin place. The mists declare it so. Right? So Vespers is saying there are places where a steri power is hidden better than others. Those are thin places, which is exactly where Thea's power is also hidden, right? So if it works for the Asteria, it works for the Starlight power.

1:12:45 This is probably actually my favorite one. And this gets back into the idea that they are actually vast versus offspring and not just made. So the quote we have, this is again from Celine. My father became High King and my mother his queen. Yet this island on which you stand, this place, my mother claimed it for herself. The very island where she had once served as a slave became her domain, her sanctuary.

1:13:08 The Daglin female who'd ruled it before her had chosen it for its natural defensive location, the myths that kept it veiled from others. So Vasperis was up to something Vespers was doing, something that she was trying to keep from the other Esteri, and she specifically chose the prison so that the other Esteri wouldn't look into it.

1:13:29 What is she hiding? I think she's hiding that she created the Starborn fae somehow. I don't know how. Again, I think it's genetic. Doesn't have to be genetic necessarily. Yeah. Other things we know that the Esteri still have, still have secrets. The reason we know that isn't Celine's Ted talk.

1:13:48 We get they fought the Daglin, and one she went on using the Daglin's own weapons. They destroyed them. Yet my parents did not think to learn the Daglin's other secrets. They were too weary, too eager to leave the past behind them. So there's still things we haven't learned yet, I think. I think you think that this might be, this might be some of them.

1:14:07 So it's a brief list of all the reasons why why this theory works. We have a couple things that are working strongly against this theory that what I do want to acknowledge them, Rune says. So if we are going with the theory that Thea is vast versus daughter, which is still my preferred method of this happening because it's star born, right? It's star born.

1:14:30 It's not star made, it's star born. Yeah. Rune says she Rune is trying to figure out who what Day's identity is and she mentions her family and Rune says she wasn't an Asteri then. Asteri had no family, no children, no parents. They just were. That is Sky in Breath chapter 36. So we have a quote that says Asteri have no children. Would Rune know?

1:14:52 Can we trust this? Would Rune know this? I don't know. This book is filled with lies. Yeah, You mentioned before a Polygon says it's not the same power. I think we touched. I think we covered that. I don't think we need to go over it again. That seems like a really sketchy non answer to me. Vespers not being able to touch the star sword I do think is really interesting.

1:15:15 I don't think it necessarily negates this theory, but the fact that Vespers can't touch the star sword when it seems that Thea and Vesperus had the same power, definitely interesting. Definitely something we will talk about in more detail. Maybe it does disprove this theory, I don't know. The last one, and this is a big one. The Asteri, at least the Asteri on Midgard are said to not actually have stars in them at all. Right, so the quote for that is this is when Bryce and Rajalis are floating into space.

1:15:45 She says, like the battery she was. She grabbed his power, sucked it into herself. Light met light, and yet Rigeless's Starlight wasn't Starlight at all. It was power, yes, but it was first light. It was the power of Midgard, of the people. It flowed into her, so much power that it nearly knocked the breath out of her lungs.

1:16:02 Time slowed further, and still she sees more of Rigeless's power. His power indicator on the wall plummeted. Rigeless reeled back, releasing her either in pain or rage or fear, she didn't know. Without the first light, without the people of Midgard and every other planet, they bled dry. Without the power of the people These Jerry fuckers were nothing.

1:16:21 So that's it's not stars kind of on Midgard it's not stars. Also by the way, right before this Rigeless has literally also grabbed a different asteria and sucks the power out of them and now Bryce is doing it to him again. Seems very similar. I think there is far too much evidence that these are the same powers for it to be a coincidence. I think if it were a coincidence that would be really fucking crazy.

1:16:45 You mentioned this before is power. This power seems to basically be the ability to absorb power from other sources at its most basic form. In Prithian, that is a star. In Prithian, that is the Evening star. There might be other stars, but basically in Prithian, it seems like Vesperus is able to absorb a star, and it seems like Thea and Thea's line is able to absorb a star. But in Midgard it doesn't seem like there is any star and Bryce is the only one who can absorb a star on Midgard because she is descended from Thea and Thea's third of her star has been left on a ball.

1:17:22 And have a big theory here. I think basically what Vespers was trying to do. And I will say this is kind of precog. I don't have a ton for this one. Now, I think Vespers made Thea either genetically or magically with the purpose of creating the perfect battery for herself to charge herself up, right? I don't think even if this is genetic, I don't think this was like a love child.

1:17:42 I think this was the purpose of this was to give the Asteria a better connection to the land of Prythian basically as a straw, right? So yeah, the quotes we have for this is we have a Poly on telling Bryce that both her and Hunt are conduits. So the quote is if both of you would benefit from training, your powers are more similar than you realize conduits, both of you, you have no idea how valuable you and the others like you are.

1:18:11 That is sky and breath chapter 21 Both of them can, which we'll get into later is also interesting. Both of them can both absorb and give power. Vesper says once we left our home world, our powers began to dim too late. We realized that we had been dependent on our lands and parent magic. The magic in other worlds was not potent enough yet.

1:18:30 We could not find the way back home. Those of us who ventured here found ways to amplify that power thanks to the gifts of the land, right? So when they leave their home world, they are not connected to their pure magic source anymore, right? But we know the land on Prythian is rife with magic, but they can't access it very well, right?

1:18:52 Like she says, our powers began to dim. So what if she created the starboard to basically have someone be that conduit, right? They are better able to absorb the power of the land because it is their home planet basically. And then they also have so so they can absorb that power, but then they can pass it on to the Esteri to be basically like a conduit, A conduit for the Esteri to actually be able to better absorb the land from Perthian.

1:19:19 That's what I think Vespers was up to. Very loose, very loosey goosey. Basically. Thea can absorb the power of the land. Thea's descendants can absorb the power of the land. In Prithian, that's a star. In Midgard, It's not a star, it's first light, right? It's the power of the people. And then the Esteri have an infinite battery pack, basically, right? Like she can just keep taking, keep taking, keep taking is my current thought.

1:19:45 That was a lot of words. I think. I mean I think Thea being a straw makes sense. I guess assuming that she is also, yeah, like cyclical with the land and assuming that Vesperous truly is like materially less efficient, right. And that the I drank the Land's magic and the Land's magic drink for me quote from Vesperous is it's worse, right?

1:20:09 Like whatever she's doing in that cycle is worse than what Fayette is able to do. Yeah, well. I think that actually makes sense even with Faya being a conduit in that case, right? Because when Vesperous leaves, Vesper says she never taught Thea how to claim extra power, right? So Thea was always just kind of claiming the right amount of power from the land I guess.

1:20:34 And then when when Vesperus actually never leaves, what am I talking about? What she puts Vesperus in the coffin? The land is kind of able to regenerate and come back, which makes sense in my mind. So even though Thea still has the power of the Evening Star, it's not being like sucked, sucked out of the land.

1:20:51 It's it's more regenerative. It's more cyclical. Yeah, yeah. OK, cool. You want to talk about the shadows? Yeah, it's like it's half about shadows, half about Starlight. So, so you read the quote already, so I won't rehash it, but Bryce at one point is like Rajalis doesn't have Starlight, but I do. We actually have in my opinion, confirmation that Bryce, Bryce's Starlight is not actually Starlight. And I also think that we have confirmation that this like light that the star born have is more than just light, right? Like the the second is probably more obvious than the first. And I think we know this because of the Autumn King and his experiments.

1:21:34 And I'm still mad that he's dead. So I do want to. I know you. Said we would talk about. This I know you said we would talk about this in a later episode, but I do want to talk about a little bit about what he was doing with let's do it like refraction and recombination. So so the autumn king Einer Dannon was doing a bunch of experiments in his study, right?

1:21:52 So this is a House of Flame and Shadow Chapter 31 Bryce had come back from Prythian and strategically dropped herself back into the Autumn King's home, right? To basically purposefully trap herself in there to figure out whatever he knows about the Star Sword and truth Teller, which we're now both in her possession.

1:22:13 And she walks in on him doing his prism experiments, which we learn about very early on. Like House of Earth and blood when. Yeah, Einer asks Rune. Like, can you give me a drop of your Starlight so that I can run it through this prism? And there's like, rainbows on the walls and it's all very pretty.

1:22:30 So in Chapter 31, he says this device refracts the light, pulling it apart. So I might study every facet of it. And then he pointed to a sister device positioned directly across from it. That device gathers it back into one beam again. I am attempting to add more to the light in the process of reforming it. If the light might be pulled apart and strengthened in its most basic form, there's a chance that it will coalesce into a more powerful version of itself. So on kind of surface level, it sounds like what Einar is trying to do is strengthen the Starlight of the fae back into the strength of the original Starlight that he hasn't seen in a very long time.

1:23:07 What the Autumn King was doing with the original prism was basically Isaac Newton's prism experiments, right? Which is pretty interesting and had pretty far reaching and interesting implications. And some of those implications were one that white light is not like pure at all, right? It was just, it was a mixture of all colors combined.

1:23:29 That was 1 output of the prism experiment 2 that the prism was not creating color. It was revealing colors that weren't already there at the second prism. Recombining it back into white light was like this the ironclad proof, right? Like if it can recombine back into white light and meant that there were no colors being created by the prism. It was all white light being spread and then white light being recombined.

1:23:52 And prism experiments eventually led to astronomy and the ability to identify what stars were made of through spectroscopy, which is how we like understand what elements go into stars what, what elements compose stars. So the Autumn King had literally been studying the composition of the Starborns light.

1:24:15 And if it is a steri light, like would he, would he know it? He might know it like the Autumn King very well could understand, right? Like we are, we are told in no uncertain terms when he embraced talk, when she gets back from Frithy and she's like, be a steri. If if the star born light is different from their light and how it is different, that's what you want to know.

1:24:35 That's where the Ori comes in, contemplating where we came from, what sort of light we have, how it can be weaponized. And he asks, and did you learn such things on your journey? So yeah, this is what I want to know. Like, this is what he's been looking into. He wants to know what star born light is made out of.

1:24:51 He wants to know whether it's a Steri light. He's probably learned a lot, but he probably doesn't have access to a Steri light. So why does this matter? Starlight, actual Starlight, looks like a full color spectrum with some dark spots of absorption. So Long story short, every element in the universe absorbs light at specific wavelengths. Only those wavelengths.

1:25:14 So like, hydrogen would absorb at exactly the same set of positions in the spectrum, and sodium at its own set, and iron, whatever, so on. And so when Starlight passes through the outer layers of a star, the atoms there swallow up those specific wavelengths before the light reaches us. And so there are like dark gaps in those spectrums.

1:25:34 So what Starlight looks like when it's refracted is like a rainbow spectrum, but with like dark gaps. But what does Bryce's Starlight do when it hits the prism? Not that it does not do that. I don't know whether, like, look, I don't know whether Sarah J Maas cared about what Starlight looked like when I crossed through a prism, But I feel like she did. I feel like she would know.

1:25:55 I love so much that you did this. I love this so much. So in House of Flame and Shatter chapter 39, this is what Bryce's star does. Starlight hit the prism, pass through it. And it wasn't a rainbow that emerged from the other side. Not even close. It took her a moment to process what she was seeing. A gradient beam of Starlight.

1:26:15 Where the rain rainbow would have been full of color, this one began in shimmering white light and descended into shadow and anti rainbow as it were. Light falling Into Darkness, Droplets of Starlight raining from the highest beam into the shadowy hand at the bottom, devoured by the darkness below.

1:26:34 So no, Bryce, you do not have Starlight. Rigeless doesn't have Starlight, but also you do not have Starlight. It's not pure Starlight. So does this mean that she is exactly like the Very possibly. I also think it could mean that Thea's lime is a combination with hell, right? It is the Asteria ability to absorb light, but you also have the shadows, and that is where kind of the shadowy devoured by darkness element comes in.

1:27:04 Interestingly, right, Rune Starlight doesn't seem to do this. Like Rune's light goes through the prism as well and we don't hear about it. We're not told exactly what it looks like. We don't get a full description, but I would think that we would get a description if it were like that. Right. So in House of and blood chapter 14, all we're told is Brune opened his eyes to find the Starlight dancing at his fingertip, refracting through the prism. And we're told with by Bryce earlier, like she's kind of making fun of the Autumn King, like, oh, are you just like looking at rainbows on the walls? So why is Bryce's light doing this? And Room's light is not.

1:27:37 It seems related right to that second third that Bryce had just picked up in Prythian. But it's not a star. It's definitely not a *. Yeah, I had that as the second part of my what is Bryce actually? But then I was like, I don't know, I this is a this is a lot to take on whether or not she actually has a star.

1:27:54 But I did have this about the prism. I totally think you're I don't think Bryce does have Starlight. She has. So we have this quote when Nesta and Bryce are talking, Nesta says. So you have a star within you, an actual star. Bryce shrugged with one shoulder. Yeah, I mean, not literally. It's not like a giant ball of gas spinning in space, but it's Starlight, right?

1:28:13 So she's like, well, it's not really a star, but it's like. And then, yeah, the prism thing, I want to add to that the quote I had before about Vesperus being up to something on the prison, right? It said, hold on, let me, let me just get back to it. The Daglin female who'd ruled it before her had chosen it for its natural defensive location.

1:28:33 The myths that kept it veiled from others, Right. So she's saying it's the myths that are keeping the prison veiled. We find out in flaming shadow when they go to a Vol. And it's not the myths that keep the asteria away, it's the black salt, right? So if this, if the prison is actually is actually being hidden from the asteri, does that mean there's also tons of black salt in the prison? But then how is Vesperus there?

1:29:02 Like how is Vesperus able to handle that? I don't know. I don't that's kind of precog, but. Well, they're they're like giant word marks all over the prison too. So I think there's there sure are more today. Understood there. You had the theory that Thea was created as a straw. I think there's also right that moment in the Prism experiment where Bryce basically like manually creates Starfire that powers up herself.

1:29:32 She's like, she powers herself up. Yeah, powers up her own horn basically. And so like, that's what I, that's what I think that Theo was meant to be basically a, a battery pack, but one that was able to basically do this. Charge herself up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I agree. It seems, it seems something something about the Esteri not having access to the power of the land and Faye having access to the power of the land and the Esteri wanting to be more powerful, absorb more power. I think it's what went to the starboard Faye. Or maybe Vesperus met a nice Faye man, fell in love, they had a child and that's what happened. It could be, I don't know, Seems unlikely. But Vesperus specifically said

1:30:22 that she was always looking for like she comments. Right when when Bryce told her about the parasite, she was like, we were always looking for ways to do this more easily, to do this better. And if Thea was basically an experiment for her to understand whether they could ever become circular in some way, self charge, then that would be charge. Yeah, make a lot of sense.

1:30:45 I think it makes sense, you guys don't have to think it makes sense and you can leave you comments if you don't think it makes sense. But I'm pretty sold on this at this. There are too many pieces of this pointing towards them. They haven't gotten her power from the Osteria for it to not lead to something right like as like there it's and and that something cannot be just a Poly on saying, oh, it's not the same power.

1:31:09 Like then we need an explanation for what the origin of this power is, because it sure seems like the same power and I don't think we've gotten that yet. So yeah, with that. Probably power. Power plus I I do think there's something else. My vote is that there's something else in the mix, but I don't know.

1:31:28 Yeah. All right, I don't know. Anyways, Abby, what is the search influence of question for of seven of seven? Abby, what is the significance of the 8 pointed *? Let's talk about the eight pointed star. Spoiler, all roads lead to Vesperus. All right, but let's talk about it at the beginning. So Bryce has a scar in the shape of the 8 pointed star, as we know.

1:31:49 She says she thinks it's the symbol of the star born, but she doesn't actually know. So this is Bryce and Nesta again. Nesta said that the scar your light comes from, it's shaped like an 8 pointed star. Why? Bryce peered at where the light was muffled by her sea, by her T-shirt. It's the symbol of the star born, I think.

1:32:07 And the magic marked you this way? Yes. When I revealed who I was, what I am to the world, I drew the star out of my chest. It left that scar and it's wake. She glanced to Azrael like a burn. And then later NASA even questions. So she said. She says so. That eight pointed star? NASA said into the quiet as they began walking again.

1:32:24 It's a symbol of the star born, people in your world. It means nothing else, right? So is it actually a symbol of the star born? Is it a symbol of something else? We also know that Nesta and Cassian both have an 8 pointed star tattooed on their backs after they make a bargain together. All of these things touched by the Esteri.

1:32:42 Let's let's be clear about that up front, right? So we just went through very long answer, how we think Bryce is linked to the Esteri. Nesta has gone into the cauldron which was corrupted by the Esteri. Cassian is an Illyrian. We know that the Illyrians are made by the Esteri. You can listen to our Esteri, our Illyrian deep dive from Lassian if you want to go more into that. We have do to do to do the most important eight pointed star, in my opinion, in this entire cosmos probably is in the harp chamber in the person right.

1:33:17 So the quotes we have for that, we first see it in silver flames. The harp sat atop a large rendering of an 8 pointed star. It's cardinal point stretched longer than the other four with the harp situated directly in the heart of the star. So basically we also have the shape of the 8 pointed star, right?

1:33:32 It's basically a compass with we got your your half directions as well. So it's a compass star. We're told this is the symbol of the star born. It seems to touch a lot of Asteria things, but we never see. We never see any Asteri in Midgard use the 8 pointed star as an emblem, as anything right? They have. I believe they have 6, maybe 7 stars as their emblem, but they do not have an 8 pointed *.

1:34:00 Yeah. Did you have something only found in? The only place that's found in Midgard is an evolon, which is. The only place that's found. Live, live. In Midgard is Evolon and I think this is very important. The 8 point star existed in the harp chamber before Celine made any of her carvings, right?

1:34:19 So the quote we have for that is my mother did not question Peleus, her conspirator and ally, when he told her to will the horn and harp to open a doorway to this world. She did not question how and why he knew this island, our misty home, was the best place to do it. She simply gathered our people, all those willing to conquer and all those willing to conquer and colonize and open the doorway in a chamber. This chamber, if the 8 pointed star on the floor was any indication though the celestial carvings had not yet been added beside it, beside red haired Faith who looked alarmingly like Bryce's father, blah blah blah.

1:34:51 So the star existed before Celine comes back from Midgard and does all her carvings. Right? Before this palace was Thea's palace. It was Vesperus's palace, right? As we just talked about in mythology, there are a lot of eight pointed stars, but I want to talk about 1 and specifically and I there are a lot.

1:35:11 So I will say this might be this might be me wanting my theory to work here. OK, but one of the most famous depictions representations of the 8 point of star is the star of Ishtar. The star of Ishtar is a Mesopotamian symbol of the ancient Sumerian goddess in Nana, her E Semitic counterpart Ishtar and the Roman goddess Venus. In Greek mythology, Venus is also called Ronnie. Do you want to do the honors best breath vesperous? OK, it's vas versus star.

1:35:41 It's vesperous is star. It is not the Esteri star. It is vesperous is star. This is a symbol of vesperous. OK, so once again, all roads lead to Vesperus. All right, so I do still think we have a couple options here. Either the star is truly the symbol of Vesperous, right? So that Vesperous, this was her palace, her star, she put it in the harp chamber and she said this is mine.

1:36:04 That's option 1. And is Vesperous could also be the star of Thea who had the power of the evening star, right? Venus is, I think this is important and we will talk about this probably at great length. In this series, Venus is known as both the morning star and the evening star because of its proximity to the sun.

1:36:19 It appears both in the morning and the evening. Very important. We'll talk about our next episode, but Danica means Morning star. We'll get back to that. All right, so it's both the Morning Star and the Evening Star and Lucifer. We know that the power of the prison, the power of the island is the Evening star, right? So it could be the symbol of Vespers. It could just be the symbol of Thea, right? Thea could say, OK, I have the power of the Evening Star. Now that Vespers is gone, Dusk, twilight, that's my power. I'm going to make this my emblem, which also fits with the Star born line.

1:36:52 Those are kind of the only two options. It's either Vespers lead to vespers, but anything anything else you want to add there? Because I do think she does some cool things. With it that I would like to talk about, but it doesn't answer the fundamental question of what is the 8 pointed star. I mean, I think the only the only I agree, I think. I think it makes most sense to be best versus the only interesting.

1:37:14 There's two interesting things I guess. 1 I don't I think we know that Vespers didn't rule alone and she knows righteous so and. There's 7 asteri we're. 7 Asteri on Midgard. So we're all eight ever together. Like could that ever have been representative of a group of eight at any point? Don't know.

1:37:34 And there were also, there are also eight territories, right? And there were those territories existing prior, so could it have been a symbol of Prythian? That would be really interesting if that'd be really interesting Vesperus somehow or if or if the Osteria like adapted it based off of the power of the land.

1:37:55 I think that's a really interesting idea because in the harp chamber. Bryce says that the 8 pointed star is. Midgard, right? She's like looking. Basically what Celine does is carve a map and we know the 8 pointed star already existed. But the 8 pointed star is in the place where Midgard should be, right? So we have she scanned the room again and turned to the 8 pointed star directly between Locos and Thur Midgard. The name seemed to echo in the chamber. Someone went to an awful lot of trouble to make this floor. Someone who'd been to my world and then came back here, right? So this is my aside here.

1:38:29 I think what Celine is doing here is really fucking cool. She's basically leaving a map, right? Like I think she's basically leaving a map like she's like saying, OK, for my star born air, your third of Faya star is here in this star, but I'm going to draw you a map to Midgard to where the other third of your star is going to be where my sister left it, right? She's basically leaving a map, right? Like I think she's basically leaving a map like she's like saying, OK, for my star born air, your third of Thea star is here in this star, but I'm going to draw you a map to Midgard to where the other third of your star is going to be where my sister left it, right?

1:39:12 So that's what Celine did there, which I think is really fucking cool. I love your idea that it's Prythian. Because of the way these worlds. Seem to stack on top of each other, right so like we know we know that Prythian and Midgard have thin places between each other so is that universe also the universe of Prythian in like different timelines or in different dimensions right.

1:39:32 If it's meant to represent Midgard, is it also representing Prythian? Yeah. Which I think is really cool. Part of it has just been brought back to life and of all and. Is such a mirror to the prison. Yeah, true Sister island. Yeah, right. Which we'll get. Which we will. Again, we'll talk about. But yeah, I also think the map point begs the question, like is that?

1:39:54 I don't know. Is that evidence? And maybe it's not that. These Ley lines. That span worlds that allow communication across worlds had to have connected had to have connected Prythian to Midgard because they needed to be able to communicate regarding where the power was hidden because they neither of them hid that power until don't know. I don't know because it's just.

1:40:18 Midgard, it's not like, hey, here's Evolin. Hey, it's on Evolin, right? And like, obviously Celine knew. So Ada said he talked to Helena and Helena only realized later in life what Thea had actually done. But I think we can assume Celine knew because Celine immediately put that bit of of Thea star in the ground in the prison, right?

1:40:37 As soon as she got back, she put it in the ground. So like, I think Celine knew. So I think Celine knew that the other third of Thea star was in Midgard, but it's not specifically in Avala necessarily. I think she would just have been able to say it's on Midgard. I don't know where it is on Midgard, if that makes sense.

1:40:52 Yeah, cool. Okay, cool. All right, Ronnie, why do Bryce and Rune have different starlights? All right, so Runes. Starlight is comparatively weak for most of the book, right? And it's coupled with shadows. Even when he gets even when he gets the antidote, it's not as strong as as Bryce's. And we learned this pretty early on.

1:41:14 House worth and blood right beyond his star born gifts. The bulk of his magic skewed towards his mother's kin, the fae who ruled of all in. And we learn it takes him like a good amount of concentration to summon a Starlight, and it usually left him with a headache for hours afterwards. That's tough. So he's he is star born.

1:41:34 He has enough Starlight to again claim the star sword from The Cave of Princess. However, it's not Bryce's Starlight and the Princess of Hell also. Confirm that he. Can't be charged up the way that Bryce can, right? So. So Hunt asks can I do the same for Room when they learn that Hunt is a backup battery for Bryce and then a toe says no.

1:41:59 The Prince's Light, his affinity for these thin places isn't strong enough, not like hers. We know that Bryce inherited Helena's third of power genetically, and we know this because Ada said when they were in hell, I'd say you had a third of Thea's power already. The part that originally was given to Helena, that came down to you through Helena's bloodline, and you took another third from where Celine stashed it. But if you can find the last third, the part that they originally kept for herself, I wonder how your light might appear then, what it might do.

1:42:30 So we learned from this line that Bryce inherits Helena's third, and that Celine stashed the 3rd that Thea gave her in the prison, and Helena stashed the third that Thea kept for herself as she originally hid in the Star Sword. Elena took that and stashed it in a Valin. This is surprisingly hard to keep up with in the book, so I'm just laying it out simply so as she's learning all of this, Bryce and Hunt are like trying to keep up, and Hunt is like.

1:42:59 So to unite the sword and the knife, Bryce needs to find the Starlight that Helena took from the Star Sword, the last third of Thea's power, which is stashed somewhere in a Valin and the Princess, they're like Yep, good luck. So she goes and does that, luckily. So why does this matter? We know from the statement that whatever was given to each of the two sisters, Celine and Helena, was what would have been passed down genetically, and it was passed down genetically through Helena.

1:43:26 We know that Celine put her portion into the prison, but Helena didn't put her portion anywhere. Helena just had it. Yeah, because Bryce has it now. So I am once again thinking that the Autumn King is not Starborn. Here's why. And the reason is so the reason is that Rune, two things. One, Rune has barely, barely anything these Bryce's kin, right?

1:43:46 And two, Rune looks, we'll talk about this more. Exactly like Reese. Exactly like Reese who is descended from Celine's line. If Rune's mother is of Celine's line, however, that happens, right? How far back it goes? I don't really care how far back it goes. Celine's line would have basically nothing coming from it, right?

1:44:06 Would have basically nothing. Because she gave it. She before she had children, she put it away. She put it away immediately. She stashed the Starlight. Yeah, she put away Thea's part, but she still had her own Starlight. Because her son glowed with the light of the Evening star. So this is where it actually gets kind of tricky. Because Bryce.

1:44:25 Gets. Thea's Starlight. Yeah. From Helena. Yeah. Who kept Thea's Starlight in her? Celine puts Thea's Starlight away. So we don't really know how strong Helena's own Starlight genetically would have been. So Celine maybe had like, her own Starlight, but maybe it was pretty weak. Maybe it was like, not because she said her son sometimes glowed.

1:44:48 Like occasionally glowed. No. OK, so I see what you're saying. So Bryce has Helena. Thea split up her star, right? She put a third in Helena, she put a third in Celine and she put a third in the star sword. Helena took Thea's third from the star sword to put it in a ball in, but she kept the 3rd that she had from Thea and that eventually ends up in Bryce. Ada says yeah, the part that was originally given to Helena, that.

1:45:16 Came down to you through Helena's bloodline, which makes me wonder what could have come down through Celine because we've not seen much. Yeah. In Celine's blood. Yeah, right. Yeah. I see what you're saying Yeah. Very, very little actually. Yeah. So it would make. Sense right if what Rune got. Was like what Celine had. I'm kind of thinking it's I'm thinking it's Celine, which would mean which would be crazy, right? Like it would mean that Lauren would have to have somehow have a connection to Prithian.

1:45:44 And I like, I don't know that I'm necessarily hanging my hat on a near term connection to Prithian, but it would mean that Lauren would how have to be from Celine's line and it would have to mean that Ember is of Helenus, which is even crazier. I don't know how this would all work. I do not know, but this is the only thing that is making sense.

1:46:03 Unless, unless Cormac at one point said that their lines crossed, right? Long time ago, the Autumn Kings lines crossed with Morbin's lines. So if the Autumn King has a tiny bit of Helena's through that line, through a volumes line, through Morbin's lines, and he gave that tiny bit to Rune, it would still mean that Ember would have to have something going on, probably.

1:46:28 But at least that would maybe mean that Lauren doesn't have to be connected to Prithean. Yeah. And I think we will talk about it more in our room. Deep dive. Which is totally fine. I believe that Rydulis says that Rune has Pelleus's Starlight. Which again, could be a lie. But opens up a big question about if Pelleus had Starlight, how did he get it?

1:46:49 Where did it come from? And is is that the Starlight that Rune has? So and. That would work. Yeah, I don't know. Definitely think it's I. Definitely think it's a different. Starlight because also then rune is. Able to heal. When he takes the antidote and we have no indication that Bryce can heal right? So it does seem like they are different starlights in some way.

1:47:13 And I'm sure we'll explore that more. As the season goes on, that's all I have to say about that right now. All right, next question, Abby, why does the star born line seem to be? Stronger in females than males, right? So I wrote I have like the beginnings of an idea here, and it's. Not fully formed, but maybe you can. Maybe you can help me out.

1:47:34 OK, so we know, as we just talked about, that males can be *. Worn so rune is. An example, we have Celine's son, right? So, but as you just said that he he occasionally glowed, he didn't always glow. And then we think that Nix is also going to have the starborn power. And the reason we think that is the baby whom recent Farrah named Nix was as beautiful as anyone could ever dream a baby to be. Dark hair with blue eyes that already glowed with his father and mother, Starlight offsetting the light tan of his skin. Also, once again, that is like the Vesperus look once again passed on through this baby, right? So we have potentially next, but in general the strongest, the strongest manifestations of

1:48:16 these of these. Powers seem to be Thea. Helena Celine and Bryce Rigelous, Sorry, Rigelous when he is interpreted and he is pretending to be Adas says implies that there's something about being female and having this power right? So he says Thea was dead by that point, Ada said flatly. Pelleus slew her.

1:48:36 He nodded to the star sword in Bruins hand and stole her blade. When he'd finished he snarled. That sword belongs to Thea's female heir, not the male offspring who corrupted her line, right? So is this power stronger in females than males? What would be the reason for that? I think there's a piece of this star Warren power that we haven't talked about yet that is very important. And we see it happen twice.

1:49:03 We see it happen with Celine and we see it happen with Bryce. So when Bryce claims that second third of Faya star, she is able to control the island, right? So she can literally shape the island to her? Well, I said bear with me. This is a lot of quotes, but I think they're all important. So like a small sun emerging from the stone itself, a ball of light burst from the floor. A star twin to the one in Bryce's chest. Her Starlight at last awoke again, as if reaching out with shining fingers for that star hovering inches away. With trembling hands, Bryce guided the star to the one gleaming on her chest.

1:49:40 Into her body. White light erupted everywhere. Power, uncut and ancient, scorched through her veins that the hair on her head rose. Blah, blah blah, we've already read this. She was the Evening Star. Etcetera, She was the Evening Star. In the last phrase of color before the Dark. Azrael had nearly reached the tunnel.

1:49:55 Another flap of his wings and he'd be swallowed by its dark mouth. But at a mere thought from Bryce, stalactites and stalagmites formed, closing in on him. The room became a wolf, its jaws snapping for the winged warrior. The rock had moved for her as it had for Celine. Stop him. She said in a voice that was more like her father's than anything she'd ever heard come out of her mouth.

1:50:18 Azrael swept for the tunnel and slammed into a wall of stone the exit had sealed. Bryce lifted a hand and spike after spike of rock ruptured from the ground, blocking nest as advance. The chamber shuttered again. From far away she could sense it, the things lurking within the mountain. Her mountain twisted wretched creatures. She says it's her mountain, right? She says her mountain twisted wretched creatures. Some had been here since Celine had trapped them, had been contemplating their escape and revenge all this time. She let them out, if she restored the onto its former glory.

1:50:50 And in that mountain, in that moment, the mountain, the island, spoke to her alone. It was so alone it had been waiting all this time, cold and adrift in this thrashing Gray sea. If she could reach out, if she could open her heart to it, it might sing again. Awaken. There was a beating, vibrant heart locked away far beneath them.

1:51:08 If she freed it, the land would rise from its slumber, and such wonders would spring again from this earth. So this is what happens with Avalon, right? And we're seeing here that she can actually hear the land and like, terraform the land. It feels very Mother Earth kind. Of like Gaia I. Don't know, like it feels like the creation of planets basically right, Like is that what this star born power actually is?

1:51:35 Is she able to have this connection to the land and like just create and that that feels inherently female, right? It feels inherently like life bringing. I don't know if that's like like strong enough for an answer to this question, but like I think this is a crazy part of her power that has kind of been like just like glossed over so far.

1:51:55 Obviously, I hope we get more of it in book 4. I don't know, that's kind of my thinking. Very pre God what? Do you think Yeah, I. Didn't land in like a very solid place on this one. I'm. Wondering to your point earlier on, like are there other star born lines? Is is because this is a female line.

1:52:17 This line manifests most strongly in females. But does that always have to be the case? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because it's it. It is interesting. We've talked about this before, right? But like, it is interesting that we have the fact that it manifests most strongly in females, but then on Prythian, females are suppressed from Selena onwards, Right?

1:52:40 Like she basically makes it so that's the case almost as like punishment for herself, but then she decides to punish like, future generations and on a violin, too. Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing. Yeah, yeah. So I I thought it my. My thought is because it is Thea's line that it is in Thea's power, maybe even Vesperos's power, but I don't really know how much genders like matter for austerity, matter for the austerity. Anybody I don't know, I don't have a great answer for. This one because Sarah Dumas.

1:53:12 Also just tends to write much stronger women. I agree it might just be a girl power thing. Yeah. Like, yeah, we're not talking about this series right now, but. The series, we're not talking about woman in that one force of nature. So yes, yeah. So I don't know, but it could be. Could be a Mother Earth thing. Could just be because we like women here. Could be Mother Earth.

1:53:37 I like the Mother Earth thought. And yeah, Asteri are. Gendered, I guess, because. Sirius was a her. Yeah, I don't know. Well, they just choose bodies. I don't know. I don't know that it's permanent, right? Like. Rigeless is a fae male here, but what was he on Aurelia, you know? Well, allegedly that because Bryce recognizes him, but I don't know.

1:53:59 Yeah. That's true. That's true. Hate that? Detail, but you know. All right, Ronnie, why can some? Star born fight Winnow, wheeled shadows and mine. Speak but others cannot. I think the simple answer to this. Is for the. Most part because Celine and Helena could and the line is descended from them. And then Bryce again.

1:54:24 I think something's going on with Ember. I think that's what's going on. But we can talk about it. Maybe we can just start with all of these star born powers are mostly linked to a Volun and what's most notable is that Bryce's seems this is really the only one missing them and Bryce does not have a Volun lineage so of all.

1:54:44 And of course like most of of all and is tied to Helena. And we know that Selena at least was Damati. I think we can infer that Helena was probably Damati at least had the ability to pass on. Damati Genetics. Probably if Selene received them I'm assuming. And we know that the De Madi abilities are associated heavily with the Starborn and the evol in Faye.

1:55:11 Because Bryce says like this whole section is about your fancy of all and cousins shadow walking mind reading. I'm surprised they don't claim they are starborn. Like these things just are lumped together in the scope of being Starborn. De Madi is just part of that. Again, I think that Bryce might have hints of this gift because Sarah J Mass has decided to throw a she must have voiced her thoughts aloud moment at us, which authors love to do.

1:55:39 We also have the dreamscape situation happening with Rune, right? Again, I'm not super clear whether Rune is purely Evol and whether something else is going on there, whether he's linked to Prithean, but Lauren is said to be from Evol and right, I think we can let's just say, but Lauren is from Evol and Rune is able to communicate with Lydia in dreams across an ocean. Like, yeah, yeah, that's not like Damati power in Prithean. Still requires.

1:56:09 Proximity, right? And we see a little bit of that with Reese and Farah too, right when he's under the mountain and she is in the human realm and they're kind of seeing each other's dreams as well. What is this dreamscape? We are only seeing it when the Princess of Hell visit. Yeah. So I think that's another point for. Is hell involved in the Starborn line? I think so that's kind of where this is going but let's continue.

1:56:31 So Damati, Damati, the people who are Damati seem to also be able to communicate in dreams, and the only people who are communicating in dreams other than the Damati people are Princess of Hell. So there's that. Well, Vasperis does say she saw the middle in her dreams. Vasperis. Does say she saw the middle in her dreams she was. Sitting underground in 1/2 stupor for 15,000 years and saw the middle.

1:56:56 That's true. And she saw Thea dancing on her grave. Yeah, I just I. Don't know. Yeah. Yeah. OK, So the Asteria and the Princess of Hell, the Princess of Hell are for sure communicating. Dreams and the hysteria right at least see things in dreams it does seem to be right exactly 2 slightly different powers the Princess of.

1:57:14 Hell, exactly like Rune, exactly like you said, can talk to people through their dreams. But then what Reese is doing and what Vesperus seems to be doing is seeing the world through dreams, right? Because Reese says he saw Pharaoh painting. He saw Pharaoh shoot the wolf. He wasn't talking to her. And it wasn't her dreams, right?

1:57:33 It was the real world, which is what Vesperus is doing too, which is kind of crazy. Yeah. And if she is tied to the land and. Or any of these beings that she has made, then that could also explain how she's seeing it. But then I don't know, Like, do you have a shared consciousness with anything that you've created? Like, that's a terrifying thought. So I don't know.

1:57:58 Yeah. So in conclusion, I think mind. Speaking dream Speaking. Definitely links to the Star born. Also links to definitely Hell. Also a Steri. Sort of, but not necessarily in the same capacity. Like what Rune and Lydia are doing are much closer to what Apollyon is coming and doing with Bryce and Hunt. I will say it's interesting that Lydia is also able to do it. I'll just leave it there.

1:58:22 I will say that too. I will say that too. Yep. All right. Shadows so. This is where it gets interesting, right? I think this is where it gets interesting. Rune's shadow abilities are crazy. I think his shadow abilities are crazy. He can shadow walk, which we just kind of gloss over, but he can do it.

1:58:42 And he thinks they're more interesting. I frankly think they're more interesting than the Starlight, too. He says his starboard abilities were little more than a sparkle of Starlight in his palm. His shadow talents were the more interesting gift. Even the temperature monitors on the high tech cameras in this city couldn't detect him when he shadow walked.

1:59:00 The only shadow walking that we've seen that's even comparable is from Azrael, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he can become a shadow. He can become shadows themselves. Let's do that there. All right, so Rune can wield shadows, can shadow walk, can become a shadow, can become basically invisible to not only the naked eye, but literally to temperature sensors. He's like barely human in that moment, just borderline shape shifting.

1:59:27 It's very, very confusing, very bizarre. And the Princess of Hell can be shadows in front of hunt cells as well. And Rigelous, Rigelous says that the Princess of Hell are shadows when he is talking to Bryce, right? So he says, have you been talking to shadows when he's asked about the black crown?

1:59:46 So again, feeling linked to hell ish, sort of feeling very hell feeling, feeling a little hell. Cormac shadows are Wilder. They're said to be Wilder and they seem to actually help him winnow, right? Rune can't winnow. We haven't seen him winnow in the House of Sky and Breath Chapter 4. Bryce describes them as different, right? Shadows also swirled behind Cormac, darker, Wilder than runes, like a Stampede of stallions waiting to gallop over all of them.

2:00:16 I wanted to confirm that she is the gift. Thank you for. Demonstrating, he sat 1 foot into those untamed shadows, bowed his head to Bryce. I'll see you at the altar. Bryce's star winked out the moment he vanished, leaving only drifted drifting embers behind. What I think is interesting about this, Cormac can can definitely win out right? Like he's he's the one who teaches Bryce how to win him. In this quote, it sounds like he is stepping into his shadows to disappear.

2:00:42 I don't know whether that was just like, a fun detail, artistic flourish. Yeah, yeah. Whether it was a little. You know, flick of the paintbrush. But we are told by Bryce right that as real shadows look more like Cormac shadows then runes shadows. And we know that what as real is doing is not quite winnowing. It is not winnowing the way that other people are winnowing. So shadows are very interesting in this capacity for two reasons, right?

2:01:09 One, because they're more linked to hell than they were linked to the Asteri. Like how did how did shadows end up in this line? But two, how did they end up in an Illyrian line? Like if these come from Celine and Helena, which I think that they do, right? Because Celine tells us we bore the shadows as well as the light and that is how we hid in the enemy stronghold and found out everything we knew about the Asteri.

2:01:32 How did their power end up in an Illyrian line? I don't have the answer, just positioning the question. Or did Apollyon pay a visit to Ezreal in the dungeons? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I. Mean if this is Selena and Helena's father is Adis? Right, or Apollyon granted a power to Selena and Helena that they wouldn't have otherwise had then that could very well be the reason that Ezreal also hasn't.

2:01:55 But it's a question. I think what's interesting about what you said here too is there is a quote. Bryce says her and Cormac's teleporting works differently. Right, so Bryce put her. Hands on her hips as she panted. Your teleporting works differently than mine. How can you know that? Mine comes from a source of magic to energy, just a different form.

2:02:14 Each jump takes more out of me. It's a muscle that you need to build up. So Cormac is the only other Faye on Midgard that can winnow, but he says his winnowing comes from a different source. So it seems to me like he does whatever Azrael. I know we said Azrael shadow walks. He does, but he can he also like winnows, right? Because he does.

2:02:35 Yeah, totally. Just So it seems to me like Cormac and Azrael have this winnowing ability from a different source than what then what Bryce has, which is confusing. I don't understand. Yeah. It seems it does seem by the way. Like we experience much more of Bryce's winnowing like first hand, even though this is all third person like quote first hand then what Cormac experiences. That seems more similar to like classic Faye winnowing on Prythian.

2:03:07 What Cormac is doing stepping into shadow like that seems like it could be what Asrel is doing. I think. I think right. Which brings us to winnowing. So Cormac links winnowing to Starborn abilities. So when Bryce sees him doing it, she's like, I'm going to do, you're going to teach me how to do that?

2:03:27 Yeah, I'm going to do that. And Cormac says if it's within. Your wheelhouse. I will and. Hunts like can Faye just do this shit and Cormac is like I can do this shit. If Bryce has as much starborn ability as she seems to, she might also be able to do this shit. And he says it was once a gift of the starborn. It was the reason I became so focused on attaining the star, the star sword.

2:03:50 I thought my ability to teleport meant that the bloodline had resurfaced in me as I've never met anyone else who can do it. Which is super interesting. Right, Like why did this ability suddenly resurface in Cormac? I don't know. Again, are we getting cross world Fuck are you that we're not aware of here. I'm completely unclear.

2:04:07 But so far from what we can tell, it's Cormac and Bryce. Yeah, that's it. It's Cormac and Bryce. Well, and and Thea and Thea, yes, and Thea, but and like. Probably just Cormac and Bryce. Yeah, yeah, I was about to say currently living, but stuff. Yeah. Bryce. RIP Cormac alive during these books. Yeah, yes, the winnowing.

2:04:30 Is really, as far as we can tell, just connected to Prithian. I don't think we have any direct link between widowing and hell, but I think what is interesting is that it's not only a commentary on Prithian, but it also could be because Bryce is literally a world Walker. Everyone who's winnowing is a very powerful Fay.

2:04:51 Like what is winnowing if not mini world walking right? Thea was a world Walker, Bryce is a world Walker. Everyone who's doing it on Midgard is walking worlds at this point. So I just pulled quotes describing the two of them and they're described so similarly all. Right. So we have Bryce describing teleporting while she's having sex with Hunt. She says she was falling, falling through time and space and light and shadow.

2:05:16 Up was down and down was up, and they were the only beings in existence here in this garden, locked away from time. So we have falling sunlight and shadow Hunt describing teleporting during sex with Bryce. This is the second time they teleport. Then he was falling amid black wind and lightning and stars.

2:05:32 He came through all of it, roaring his pleasure to the skies because there were skies above them and city lights booming base from a nearby party. So again, we have falling, we have black wind, we have lightning. Bryce teleporting to the gates. Bryce gave. Herself to the wind and darkness. And teleported for the gates, winnowing with Reese. When Reese grabs Bryce's hand and winnows. We get.

2:05:54 After Rune's body double had introduced himself in that lovely cozy foyer, he'd grabbed her hand. The strength of his grip, the brush of his calluses against her skin had been the only solid things as wind and darkness had roared around them. The world dropping away. So, so far, that's all winnowing, right?

2:06:09 So we have basically, we have wind, we have darkness, we have falling, we have the world dropping away when Bryce world walks. She says Bryce thrust her power out will the gate to take her and her alone, and she was falling, falling, falling while standing still suspended and the archway sucked backwards so that her hair trailed outward toward Rydulus's straining fingers. No, he bellowed.

2:06:30 It was the last sound Bryce heard as the darkness within the gate swallowed her. She fell slowly without and blah blah blah. She was screaming into the wind and stars and emptiness, Right? So that is very similar to what Hunt just described as their winnowing. It's very similar to how winnowing is described with Reese as well. So like, and it could just be how many ways can you describe moving through space and time?

2:06:54 Like there's there's not that many ways to describe this. That could be what's going on, but they seem very similar. They do, always. Have. Yeah. So in conclusion. Shadows mind speaking feeling very hell winnowing, feeling very world walking which we are told that before the history lost access to their power they were able to world walk right?

2:07:14 So it's not actually that crazy to link this to a starborn ability. The winnowing that is because Bryce is still relatively. Close to her source of. Power in terms of like time and lineage, right? There's still a matter of like 10 generations from when they were like actually near their home source.

2:07:38 Well, yeah, I. Mean I'm Bryce. Yeah, yeah. I do think that. Part doesn't like that, part gives. Pause right when the Asteria are like we were far from our home source and so we lost that ability like Bryce is far from her home Starborn have not been there for. 15,000 years. Why is? It suddenly.

2:07:57 Able to be resurfaced, Yeah. And that quote, just so you guys have it, is our brightest mount. Minds found ways to bend the fabric of worlds to travel between them. Wayfarers, we called them. World Walkers. And then Bryce. That's Phosphorus. And then Bryce says if you knew how to open portals between worlds, why did you need to rely on the Dread Trove?

2:08:16 Once we left our home world, our powers began to dim. Too late we realized that we had been dependent on our lands inherent magic. The magic and other worlds was not potent enough. Yeah. We could not find the way back home. So the Asteri used to be able to world walk without the Trove, without external influences, Right.

2:08:33 We actually talked about this in our Places of Prythian episode. Like, can the Asteri still world walk? It seems like the answer is no. No when they're on Prythian because. Yeah, because they are too far away from their whole magic source. So that. But this does seem like a power that the Asteri have, and Hal doesn't really have it right?

2:08:52 Because Ada says when he's in I, I think it's when he's in the chamber. I just read this this. Quote today when? Bryce sees him in the chamber like or when hunt sees him in the chamber hunts like why can't you go do this thing blah blah, blah. And Ada says I'm not actually here. Like I'm not here. I'm not world walking right now you're seeing a projection of me, but like I my body is not not here, which is not world walking right.

2:09:18 So if if we're saying, which is kind of what we're postulating, but doesn't have to be true, that this is either from a steri or from hell, it points to being from a Steri, which raises a lot of questions about all the people who can winnow on Prythian, right? Why do so many people have that ability on Prithean? I made a little chart of who has what powers from the star born line and Thea and Bryce's powers line up perfectly like Thea has Starlight and she has winnowing.

2:09:44 But we don't say I don't think she has Damati power. I said I would talk about this later. The reason I don't think she has Damati power is because she doesn't know that Pelleas has betrayed her, right? She says she had no way of knowing that he that he is a Pelli is Pellius here had spent our era of peace learning ancient summoning magic and searching the cosmos for whatever remained of the Daglin on other worlds.

2:10:06 Right. So Celine says that about Thea not she didn't know. She had no way of knowing, right? If she's de Madi, she has a way of knowing. So I don't think that Thea was de Madi. I think that started with her daughters. Yeah. And I once again asked who is Fian? It was Fian I. Have the same question and what is going on with him and? What are his powers?

2:10:28 Yeah, I would like to have. The same questions. Did you have anything else on this one? Not for now. No, not for now. I'd say my big question of all of this based on everything we've just gone through with these powers is why can't ruin teleport? Why can't ruin winnow either through shadow walking or what we think is the more traditional actual form of what of winnowing with the world walking?

2:10:49 Like does he just is it the parasite? Does he just not know how to do it? Like it seems to me like room should be able to do it, but we haven't seen him do that yet. So I don't know. We shall say big question is today I have. A third child, that's an. Intriguing question. What? Makes you say that?

2:11:06 I don't know, just like not. Bryce of. Celine and Helena are just not making sense to me. I agree. I agree Bryce does not have the coloring of Celine and. Helena Bryce does not have the powers of Celine and Helena, she only has Thea's powers. Like she doesn't have any of the extra stuff. So except the winnering. But Thea had winnering.

2:11:28 Never mind, I see what you're saying. I understand why you're asking this question. These are the questions that I have like, she claimed. Only Thea's powers. None of. Selena and Helena's. She she received Thea's third of power from Helena's bloodline. Allegedly. Yeah. I have questions, That's all.

2:11:49 I have questions too. I hope you. Guys are enjoying. This as our first episode I feel like we're getting. So deep. Yeah, I hope you did your homework. All right, All right, so that is the conclusion of our official Crescent City Acatar section. Again, hope you guys enjoyed it. I feel like we got real into the nitty gritty, but typically that's what you guys are here for.

2:12:11 So I hope you enjoyed. Obviously, we'll continue to talk about all of this more. We are going to go into the Throne of Glass spoilers section of our episode. So if you have not read all 8 Throne of Glass novels, we recommend turning around now. As always, you can find us on social media. We are drags in the details pod.

2:12:29 I'm pretty much all social channels. If you like us, please like, comment, subscribe, rate, review, etcetera. It helps us out a lot and we'll be back next week. Both spoilers from here on out for Throne of Glass until the end of this sentence. All right, so the way we're doing this one guys, obviously this has been a crazy episode. I don't think we have much.

2:12:49 We didn't have many more Throne of Glass specific questions necessarily. So this is just going to kind of be if Ronnie, if I have anything to add from the Throne of Glass world into this Starborn question of what the hell the Starborn Faye are and other things that are going on. So I'm going to start, I have a couple and then we will just alternate basically. So my first one, it's kind of two, it's kind of two. I'm going to start with death Maidens, right, because we talked about in the why is this more powerful in the female line question, Bryce's power, seemingly of creation, which we did not.

2:13:24 What we did not talk about a lot in this episode, which I had notes on, but I thought we had better things to talk about is the power of destruction piece of it, which is she can create a black hole, right? What is what is destruction if not a black hole? Avoid right? So Bryce definitely seems to have the power of both creation and destruction, Irene says. Irene says the power.

2:13:48 Irene, we find. Out is a Death Maiden from arrow on, Irene says. We find out the power of creation and destruction. That's what lay within her. That's what being a Death Maiden seems to be. And that also seems to be a primarily female gift, hence the maiden piece of Death Maiden, right? So we have these two things kind of lining up.

2:14:08 Obviously Bryce and Irene have different powers. Irene has the healing, Rune has the healing. So I'm still not totally sure how I feel about that. I don't know. We've talked about the similarity between the. Valg and the Asteri homeworlds. Aaron says the deaf maidens are from his world. Maybe the Valg and the Asteri are actually all from the same homeworlds. Like maybe maybe that is the case. But they are they don't seem to be Valk right? But maybe the Asteri and the Valk both lived on the same homeworld and the Asteri had the power to defeat the Valk and the Valk seemingly they have the power to defeat the Asteria. That gets into a little precog territory. The real theory here is the

2:14:44 depth, the power of creation and destruction that Bryce has seems very similar to how Irene describes her power. That's my first omission. I'm acknowledging that. All right. Do you have? Do you have any? Very small one. And I didn't prep for it because it just. Came to me as you were talking about that.

2:15:03 Aren't we told that Valg princesses are stronger than Princess? Yeah, yeah. Which is also interesting, right? Yeah. Could just be the girl power thing, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it could, totally. Be the girl power thing. I mean even the even the villains in. These series the women are stronger so like best worst maid you've.

2:15:26 Always got like an Erawan. Or a rigeless and then they're just like outshined by the big bad woman. This is why I'm not convinced that the Esteri are. The big bads like I I'm not convinced that Rigeless is the big bad of Crescent City because he's a fucking man. It has never been a man. It's always a woman.

2:15:43 Like never, I guess. Well, we had Amarantha and Acatar, but I'm not really convinced we've seen the big bad of Acatar yet either. I don't know. I don't know. Briaxis is woman. Briaxis is a woman. It's. All coming up, women. All right, a couple more things. I want to acknowledge that there are Asterion Faye in Throne of Glass. I'm acknowledging it.

2:16:06 Interesting. I'm going to talk about it much. In much more depth in our next. Episode. That's why I'm just acknowledging it now. OK, so I'm acknowledging it. I know that it exists. It sounds like Ronnie and I have gotten to some similar places, which I'm very excited about. I know they exist. That's the just don't comment and be like, why don't you guys talk about the Asterion fare? We're going to.

2:16:27 They exist. I'm acknowledging it. I also have acknowledging that the a pointed star is seen on a priestess's head who worships the Mother and Throne of Glass and that Manan calls herself made with a capital M multiple times. I'm acknowledging all of that. I don't have answers for them right now.

2:16:44 I'm just letting you guys know that I know that that happened and that at some point we will talk about it, but I did not have the brain capacity to talk about it in this episode. So I had one more fun small. Thing says that she's going. To load into Starfire at one point, which is fun. Yeah, it's all fun. It's all fun.

2:17:06 But yeah, that's pretty much the the. Big pieces of this I. Guess of the throne of Glass omissions next episode we're going to have a lot more to talk about with throne of glass. All right, pre cog corner. OK, I'm going to do a small wild. Pre cog because this episode is big and big and wild. So I'm going to do small and wild.

2:17:25 So Prythian famously is very hard to find right by the Asteri. Maybe by hell. We don't know whether it's hard to find by hell. But they when the gate opens between her and Atis, the portal opens her and Atis and said that like their souls were the reason like they're mated souls were the reason that that bridge was found. So we also get multiple mentions in House of Flame and Shadow when?

2:17:56 Bryce. Nesta and Azrael are walking around underneath the Hewn City and under the prison of how much the water. And like the earth down. There smells like iron quotes for that. Bryce knew it wasn't endless, only because far, far below Water Ward, these are those underground waterways that bleed out from the middle and into under the mountain, a large subterranean river. If the sound was this loud, even up here, bits of spray floated from the darkness, the damp air laced with a thick metallic scent.

2:18:30 Iron. There must have been deposits of it down here and then later as they're again trudging through these tunnels are the iron rich water scent that stuffed itself up her nose. I guess my my question I have no other evidence. Is iron in of glass world is a magic suppressant? Right, it's it. Suppresses magic, that's what it does.

2:18:55 It is not said to suppress magic on Prythian. It's like a fabled magic suppressant in the human realm. Or like oh it suppresses magic and then the fair like no it doesn't. The cauldrons made of. It's like very confused how iron actually impacts magic on Prythian. Is it shielding the planet somehow? I don't know, because the people who are looking for it are Mystics, and those Mystics mostly seem to be Faye with magic, not a Steri who are repelled by salt. Yeah.

2:19:24 Yeah. What is the power of the Mystics? I don't know. We'll get into that. Different question. The Mystics so far also seem to be. Faye. Well the the 1 Mystic we know is Faye through Aurelia. Right. And Iron does not work on her. You mean Iron does work on her? I mean, Iron does work on her. That is what I mean, yeah, Yeah.

2:19:47 Yeah, yeah. I think that's interesting, I hadn't really thought about it. About the iron, because I thought the iron. Either way, I think this works like the iron is because the midden guard word is hunting. It's basically from blood, right? Because the midden guard word worm is hunting. But even that still works. It's still a lot of iron within the core. I think that's interesting.

2:20:08 Many things on Pythian smell metallic, like even magic. The magic smells metallic. Smells metallic. I think this is interesting. I actually. Think this kind of works with my precog. So Vesperus, Bryce says to Vesperus. I have questions for you. If you don't answer them, I'm happy to leave you down here until the end of eternity.

2:20:25 And Vesperus says, oh, this planet will be long dead before eternity has ended. Its star will expand and expand and eventually devour everything in its path, including this world. Bryce says thanks for the astronomy lesson when Bryce is flippant about something like that, it typically means it's important and you should pay attention to it right. So she so it says the star will expand and expand and eventually devour everything in its path, including this world. We talked about how both the Esteri and the starborn face seem to be able to absorb the power from the land and that power is an evening star.

2:21:02 Just Prythian somehow have a star inside it or maybe 8 stars inside it like you were talking about before because because there seems to be 8 different types of powers here and like right Isn't am I? I granted have not done like physics in a really long time, but isn't in the heart of a star. Aren't there all these metals that are formed and that's how they ended up like in on our planet because they came from a star originally?

2:21:25 Yeah, I guess I don't know how the planet would be containing it. I have no idea on that. Please, I have no fucking idea. Don't quote me. I'm not, haven't taken a class on astrophysics in 12 years at this point. But I mean, it wouldn't be right. It would, it simply wouldn't be. But. This is fantasy.

2:21:46 Yeah. But yeah, I thought that was an interesting line. The other thing that occurred to. Me you read this quote so long ago at the beginning of this episode many many many hours ago. But Rajalis says your star born line hails from a planet of hails from an island of perpetual dusk, right. That is not how the solar quartz work. We're specifically told that that is not how the solar quartz work, right?

2:22:12 Reese says it can't always be night. I can't alter the path of the sun, but Rigelous is implying that that was how it works at one point. So like he says, what happened? He says that the mainland had. Every all of the times of the day, but the the island had perpetual twilight. So he was saying he was very important style had perpetual twilight.

2:22:37 Yeah, but. That feels incredibly. Important, right? Because we have that line from Reese early in. Acatar about how he's not like the night Court is not powerful enough to to fuck with the flow of the sun, basically. Right. But then we have this island that can stay in perpetual twilight. Yeah.

2:22:52 So I don't know. Very interesting. Very interesting. All right, so we do, we want to do fusion and controlling. The Sun, what you want to talk about, What we've talked about today, we've talked about. Prisms, we've talked about the we've talked about nuclear fusion, we've talked about stars, we've talked about matter and antimatter. Anyway, this was a fun one.

2:23:17 All right, that is it for this week. If you want to follow us, I hope you enjoyed it guys. I think we had to. This was a fun episode. We kind of had to get this out of the way to just kind of set the stage for our Crescent City season. I think most of them aren't going to be this long. We'll find out, but I think we had a lot of good things to talk about. If you would like to follow us, we are drags in the details pod on a TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook. We are drags in the details server on Discord. Our Discord is a super fun place. Always theories popping off in the discord. We are drags in thedetails.com.

2:23:52 If you want to check out our website, we are hoping to start posting more content on that website soon, so keep an eye out for that. And you can also submit emails, queries, questions, comments, concerns through that e-mail. There is a submission form there. Other than that, anything I'm missing?

2:24:09 I think that was all of it. You can. Always e-mail us drags in the details. Pod@gmail.com We love hearing from you and I think that is it for this week. We will be back next week. Love you, bye. Love you. Bye.