Onyx Storm: Violet Sorrengail Deep Dive| Her Signets, Her Paths, Her Ties to the Venin??

0:00 But you're in say there's no cure for venin. Like maybe their offspring could evolve. I think that Violet is the evolved offspring. Well, right. That could explain everything. She's the exception to the balance. Because she's not. Because she's not venin or human. Fuck. Imagine Theophany surprise when she found out it was her.

0:33 Hello, I'm Ronnie, I'm Abby, and this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. This season will be focused on the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros. Quick disclaimer, these episodes will contain spoilers up through Onyx Storm.

0:51 If you have not finished Onyx Storm, save this and come back later. Also, due to the contents of that series, this podcast is rated R and should only be listened by those comfortable hearing explications of content. Each week we'll be diving into a specific topic in depth. We will come with receipts. We're going to have quotes to back up any theories so that you can follow along if you're skeptical. This episode is going to be focused on Violet, our favorite plucky heroine.

1:15 So let's start with, what do you think of Violet? Abby? OK, so can we back up for a second? Actually, I think we should each talk about our experience with this series, why we chose this series, our experience. With I'm going to put quotes on romanticy in general and kind of every decision in our life that has led to this point. Yeah, I guess my my intro to romanticy. I mean, we're both Harry Potter kids, right? So like, reading not new, getting lost in books, not new to me.

1:41 I remember when I learned about the Empyrean series in general, I basically took like a reading hiatus. I mean, I read books like on and off, but I never got sucked in like this. I was walking with our friend Jenna back from a workout class and she was like, can we stop by the brand bookstore? I was like, sure.

2:01 She's like, have you read 4th Wing? I need to buy Iron Flame. I was like, I've never heard of the series in in my entire life. And so I walk into the bookstore with her, she buys Iron Flame. I buy 4th Wing cuz I'm like, yeah, I'll start the series. Fine, why not? And then I think by the time she was on like chapter 3 or something, she's going to kill me for saying this.

2:20 By the time she was on chapter 3 I was done with Fourth Wing and I had to go back and buy Iron Flame. I think I maybe she sold me her copy of Iron Flame. She got it on Kindle. Anyways, the rest is history. I immediately got sucked into Iron Flame, then Acatar, then all of it. I had no idea, Jen, I got you into this series that actually changes my whole perspective of all of. This, yeah.

2:41 She had no way of knowing what we would become when she comes. All right, so my experience with this is I believe on December 31st, 2024, we were still with Jenna and I saw a copy of 4th Wing on her like table and I said, oh, is that the Dragon Sex book? And you two were both there and you said, Abby, you have to read this book.

3:05 And I was like, I don't. Know. It sounds kind of dumb. I'm not sure that I want to. That was December 31st by, I don't know, January 25th maybe? And when did Onyx Storm come out? I had read all of them. I truly don't think a day has gone by since that day that I haven't read one of these books.

3:29 Like like either re reading them for the first time or re reading them. So I'm completely hooked. It's all I think my boyfriend is very sick of me talking about it, but it's yeah, I don't know. I definitely was skeptical. You know me, Ronnie, like I'm skeptical about everything. Thankfully, I actually think this was huge.

3:46 I didn't buy it. I got it out of the library. So the like clock was ticking and I was like OK I know Ronnie and Jenna love this book. I should probably just sit down and dedicate a couple hours to this and see if I can get into it. I think I sat down on the couch on Friday night and like basically didn't move till Sunday. I was like, Oh my God.

4:05 That's what happens. Yeah, it is. It is funny, though. Like we have, I mean, for listeners, we've been friends for like, is it a decade now? Yeah. Maybe more it's. Been a long time, yeah. And we like went on different planets for the last, like, year and then when, since we both were reading this series. I feel like I've talked to you actually every day. Absolutely, absolutely.

4:26 And it's great and I love that. And I love that. It's just like, OK, I love that she released the Onyx Storm the day after the inauguration. Like she knew what she was fucking doing. We wouldn't need it. Yeah, we would. I love everything about this. I mean, so I got very back into kind of Lord of the Rings last year because of Rings of Power. And there's a podcast that I listen to that covers Rings of Power.

4:50 It's called House of Our. They're so, so, so good. Like I don't like the show that much and I can't really read the books to be honest. I've tried to read the Lord of the Rings books like so many times but I just find them like. They're little doll. They're a little doll, yeah. But I think the lore and the world that he's created, obviously so good, so layered. And I'm not saying that Rebecca's on that level, but like, it makes me feel that way.

5:15 Like every time I like reread a page, I'm like, Oh my God, I didn't catch that. I didn't catch that. I didn't catch that like. Like from what I've heard, it was her first. She's a romance writer. Romance writer, right? Definitely. Yeah, she just fucking knocked it out of the park. All right. Do we want to go on to how we feel about Violet? I have not read other romanticy.

5:31 I also think that needs to be said right there. This is my first quote UN quote romanticy, and I hate that word. I think it's a stupid word, but this is my first quote UN quote romanticy. Heroin. Yeah, I think Violet is on par with Hermione in terms of quality of heroin. Like, I really. I really do. And if you think that Hermione is in fact the heroine of Harry Potter, which I do, he is like, that is the correct answer. Yeah.

5:57 I think she's great. I think she grows, which is awesome. I like, she's not out of the gate. Just like, oh, I'm fucking awesome. Like anyone can come at me. I like the simple stuff, like she has to go to the gym every day to stay strong. And I'm like, oh, I relate to that. I, too, have to go to the gym.

6:12 Like otherwise I'm weak as fuck. And like, I like that she works on herself and grows. I think she's made some bad decisions, but I still like, I really like her. And at first, honestly, I was like with the whole first person thing, I was like, oh, I really, I don't know about this either. And then when you realize that it's because Rebecca wants to keep secrets, basically like Rebecca does not want you knowing everything, it becomes so much better.

6:43 And especially when everything's being filtered through, like, what Violet knows or what Violet doesn't know, I think, yeah, I just. I really like her. I think she's a great heroine. What about you? I agree. I think she's good. I think I've had my ups and downs with Violet, so this is not my first romance book. And so I do have others, I guess, to compare her to. And I think in some ways she is stereotypical and that she's like a small, weak kind of protagonist. When we meet her, she's like my bones and my ligaments are are are subpar and like they didn't is this like giant man who could absolutely destroy me kind of thing. And so when I first met her, I think there was like a little bit underwhelmed.

7:25 So I was like, OK, this is another you for the listeners. Abby has not read a court of thorns and roses, and so we need to cyber bully her into doing that. But she she was a little favorite when when I met her, but I do think that she's had immense character development. I like that she started as this kind of like weakling in the series that was constantly underestimated, acquired this power that was way bigger than her and over the course of Iron Flame I was about ready to to be done with her because of how much she wasn't trusting of her friends.

7:59 But by Onyx Storm, she really grew into and realized like Taryn bonded me and Taryn is a general within the Imperium. And so I need to grow within my own ranks and be a leader, be a tactician. And I feel like throughout Onyx Storm in its entirety, she does a really good job of that. And she gets, she actually uses her brain and trusts her own mind to make really big decisions.

8:24 And yes, she's like guilt ridden over a lot of it. So we're reading it from her point of view. And so that in a way just makes her more human. So I'm a fan of Violet. I think I'm going to continue to become more of a fan of her because that's how this has progressed for me. So I first met her. I was like, you kind of need to to get over it.

8:39 And more recently, I've been, I've been really proud of her. Yeah. OK. So the way that we set up is we put together a list of questions that we want to answer on a given topic and we'll alternate kind of like who starts with their perspective, but we both independently prepared our own perspectives.

8:58 In some cases, we'll probably reach the same conclusion and others we might go totally different directions. And so we'll run through each of those questions and kind of share our own perspectives and knowing us, the dialogue, we'll just take off from there. And I feel the need to add, and maybe we should. I know we said this at the top of the pod, but we are not only focusing on Onyx Storm in these episodes. This is a full deep dive of the whole series. We have stuff from Forthwing, we have stuff from Iron Flame. That's the plan.

9:23 All right, we're going to dive in. So our first question that we had for each other was how does she wield lightning? What does it mean that she can wield pure power? And what we mean by that is when she goes to Orisha and she's being taught by Felix instead of Car, he says you wield pure power.

9:44 That takes the form of lightning because that's what you're most comfortable shaping at us. So like, she's literally wielding pure power. You look like you have more to stay here. So it's noted Felix also says that Zaden manipulates what already exists and grows what already exists. And we see most of that in other signets as well, like ice wielders, water wielders, fire wielders. But Violet has a signet of a flavor in which she actually creates things, and so she is wielding pure power. Yeah.

10:10 OK, I also had a note on that, so let's just start there because I was thinking about this. I was like, is there anyone else that we know that has a signet that can create things out of nothing? There is one other person that's mentioned. Do you know who it is? I had assumed it was the fire wielder that killed Grady. I'm blanking on her name.

10:26 Ora. It's Mira. Mirror can create wards out of nothing. And that was a recent development, like an Onyx Storm level development, I think, or Iron Flame. There is a quote, I think an Onyx storm. I think you're right where it says mirror can create wards out of nothing. So we have two of our soaring gals here, which I think is really interesting, one that creates a weapon and one that creates a defense, and I don't think that that is a coincidence.

10:51 Agree yes. Also every time the venom see her. So I'm going to get I'm going to get deep here. I'm going to get into the origin story, which I you know, we're doing a different deep dive episode on the origin story, so I weren't talking it too much, but every time pretty much she comes into contact with Avenin.

11:05 They say something along the lines if you command the power of the sky, you command the sky you like you pull power directly from the sky. So the origin story quotes, which we get in epigraphs in which we get in actual passages in the books, right. One brother bonded to Griffin, one to Dragon, and when the third grew jealous, he drew directly from the source, losing his soul and waging war on the other two. They say drew directly from the source. Rebecca does not tell us what the source is. It is implied.

11:33 It is implied that it is the ground, right? That is what we are led to event and draw directly from the ground, not through Dragons. And because they are not channeling from Dragons, they lose their soul. That's the first origin story quote. The second origin story quote. It was the third brother who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power.

11:53 Who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price. So we know the third brother drew directly from the source. And we know the third brother commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power. What do the Venoms say when they meet Violet? Such untapped power. No wonder we were called here.

12:08 You could command the sky to surrender all its power. And I bet you don't know what to do with it, do you? So here's here's my theory on her signet. I'm now putting signet in quotes because I'm not really that convinced that it is a signet. I don't think she only draws from Taryn. I think she draws her power from the sky or we'll learn how to draw her power from the sky.

12:28 And the reason I think that is because when they go to unbriel or when they go to the aisles in general, right? We know Taryn and and Dharna are cut off from magic because there's a moment in the book where they're like, oh crap, we don't have magic anymore. And they both find it really hard to fly. And people have said but and Dharna still has power in the aisles like because she draws from the sky, but and Dharna isn't feeling magic.

12:48 And we know that Tannin and Dharna and Violet can still speak. So it's not just and Dharna and Violet that are speaking, which is what I would think it was if it was that. And Dharna was still the source of power. But it's the three of them. So that leads me to believe that Violet has a source of power other than her Dragons. And I think based on the language Rebecca has used here that she can draw directly from the sky. I have more to say on that but if I want to hear. You.

13:12 No I agree, I think it's not honed or done effectively outside when she is battling the queen in Umbreel because in I think it's Iron flame when she's cut off from Taran, like when Taran is unconscious she can't wield anything. It's on a wield lightning. Yeah, it's on a storm. Is it on a storm? Okay, so I don't think that she's harnessed it necessarily, but I agree with you and I, you know, I want to talk more about the origin story, but I will refrain here. I think she wields pure power that currently takes the form of lightning, and I think she has access to the power of the sky. And I think it's not clear whether the source is the ground or the sky.

13:54 But I'm also with you, I think it's probably the sky. So agree with everything today. I just don't think that we've really seen it outside of that unreal battle. So here's another quote. This is from Onyx Storm. This is when they go outside of the wards. So they're still on the continent, but they're outside the wards and they're about to go to Unreal.

14:10 So they get through the words. And she says I'm struck with the oddest urge to try and pluck strands from the very sky and wield runes, which is exactly how she grabs tannin and darkness power, right? Like literally plucking strands and weaving Bruins. We know that she does that. Taryn says you grow more powerful every day, more capable of recognizing what was once completely invisible to you.

14:31 And Dharna chimes in. I could recognize it if you ever let me come with you, right? So she's growing more powerful. She's recognizing that she can actually channel from the sky. And Andarna recognizes it again, I don't think, I don't think it's channeling through Andarna. I think she's, I think she's the third sibling here. I think she's, I think she's channeling from the sky. And she can dreamwalk when Andarna's gone, right? So it's not Andarna that's giving her this power. And she can wield lightning when Taryn doesn't have his access to magic, right?

15:02 I feel like Rebecca's leading us to she can draw directly from the sky, especially because she put that in those chapter epigraphs at the top. I honestly haven't considered whether like Violet is the reason that they could all talk in the aisles, but I don't have a reason to rule it out. I had just kind of assumed that and Dharna's like a piece because we know that she's like a second bond, right?

15:23 She's a she's a bond that shouldn't have existed. So I thought she would just be like a piece of the puzzle that connects them all to a form of magic that they don't require being on the continent for. But maybe it's implicit to Violet. That would certainly be interesting. And I mean, they they do say that she wield something that hasn't been seen in centuries.

15:43 And I think she's the first lightning Wheeler in over a century. So she has something more than just lightning wielding for sure. Based on what the Venom have called her and have said there, yeah. OK so this brings me to another point. Theophany, when she meets her, says Violet is the exception to the balance right?

16:01 Which again leads me to believe it's not a cygnet right? Because the cygnets are always in balance. But she has something else. She has something more that lets her draw power, create power, whatever it is, she is power. Now why that would be her I don't know. Like, I don't know if the Sword and Gales are direct descendants of these three brothers. I don't I don't think we know enough to answer that question. Yeah, I don't know.

16:23 So that I think the exact quote from Theophany was on 486 of Onyx Storm. And she says there's only one exception to the rule of Violet. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be you and I, when I read it, assumed that it meant that Violet was somehow an imbalance, right, Because the balance to Theophany was Lilith. Like we don't actually have any imbalances signet wise, I think. And we can talk more about this when we talk about Cygnets that we're aware of other than Zaden and potentially Violet. Well, now actually, Zaden speaks the blank, Yeah. So Violet could be an imbalance just based on what we know about signets, but also could be an imbalance because she can channel power directly.

17:02 Yeah, and that could mean she is. The weapon that everyone is looking for too, like these might all be the same things, yeah. And also probably links up to the whole God situation that we have to talk through as well. Yeah, OK. I mean, other than what's already been said, like I don't think that lightning wielding is the limit of her signet to cars.

17:22 Like wants to see her because she's the first lightning wielder in over a century. So we know that there have been lightning wielders within the last, I don't know, couple centuries call it. But then when the venom find her, they they say that they've been waiting centuries for her kind of power and they call her the one who commands the sky, which obviously lends itself to the origin story.

17:39 So I had assumed the Violet was a sky wielder of sorts and wields powered directly from the sky, which not not coincidentally is also the power alluded to in the origin story. So it's possible that no one of Violets power, whether it's signet or not, has existed since the origin story. And I think, I mean I don't think I've.

17:57 I have nothing to add other than what has already been discussed, except for that I don't think the limit is going to be drawn at lightning. When she's Endeavour Rally, where there's no magic, the cake makes her a deal to stay and be his bodyguard. And yes, yeah, she says to cat or cats. Like why would he want you without magic? You're not special basically.

18:19 So there's like a couple things that that could mean either Deverelli anticipates getting magic back, or they know Violet doesn't need the magic from the continent to be able to. Wield. Honestly I thought that that was just them being tricked by Violet because Violet made it seem like they just could wield because they didn't grab the conduit and wielded and killed everyone there.

18:43 Could be. So maybe I'm under into it. I think they're, I think they're smarter than that because they didn't see Violet wield. I don't know. I do think that in general we should never set too little store by something that's said in the aisles because there's this whole world of oracles and temples that we've not even touched and like everyone's making them out to be like drug induced hallucinations. But like, we know better than to just write those off as drug induced nation.

19:12 We definitely know better. Yeah. There are so many times in this book when Violet talks about losing her soul and losing her humanity. Like when Traeger gets shot by the arrow and she has to say thank you. If she is wielding directly from the source, is she sacrificing her soul, too? Like, is that what Rebecca's setting us up?

19:33 For you're getting dangerously close to my crackpot theory, and I don't want you to all. Right. Be quiet. No, but I I agree. I think like there is a there are a lot of references to Violet losing her soul, to Zaden's soul being Violets, and to Violet being the death of Zaden. There's a lot going on there. And resurrection.

19:57 There's a lot of resurrection. Yeah, you know what I want. At least in 4th. All right, I feel like we've covered this one. Pretty well. So our next question is predictable in that we want to talk about dream walking. What is dream walking mean and what are its limits? So maybe it's worth just starting with the basics and kind of a recap.

20:18 Violet has been having dreams about being held captive by the sage. And she also had one dream that she was noticeably confused by while she was sleeping with her squad and I think Arisha, in which she was close to Cat and in a burning building and told Cat, like, you're going to make it out. You're going to be Queen of Tyrandor. Which obviously doesn't make any sense for Violet to believe because Violet is in love with Satan, Queen of Tyrandor, Duchess of Tyrandor.

20:42 Sorry. Then after speaking about it with Satan, she realized that she's been having all the same dreams he's been having and has been experiencing his dreams as him. And this is confirmed when she talks to Marin about her dream and realizes that she also embodied Marin in her dream as well with when she was close to Cat. So on this realization one they decide that she's a dream Walker and that she could be killed for it and that she's intensic. But upon this realization, she, in the next dream she's in, breaks apart from Zayden's point of view and speaks directly to him.

21:13 And he recognizes her there like he knows that she was in his dream. And she creates A dagger while within his dream to defend herself by thinking this dream, if it were mine, I would be armed. And then the dagger appears. There's a lot there. I completely. Forgot about that. That's fucking huge. There's a lot there.

21:32 It's huge. Yeah. So we know that she can walk into other people's dreams, not just Zatan's. And I think Rebecca intentionally planted, planted Marin in there so that we would know definitively, right? This is not a bond thing. And we know that she can consciously exists as herself in these dreams. We don't know whether she can exist as other things, but we know she can exist as herself and she can manipulate the reality of the dream, which is kind of crazy. Her dream walking appears to have coincided with Endurna's dreamless sleep and her maturing. And that's kind of what they hinge on. And the way that they explain it, they're like, you needed to access Andarna and you couldn't,

22:09 so you manifested on a human, and that human happened to be Zayden. Because he's the easiest access. You have the easiest access into his mind, it also seems. I think you agree on this. It seems like the sage that Hans Zayden's dreams is also a dream Walker. Yeah. Which puts that signet kind of imbalance because he's there actually recounting like real events. Like he says come and get her, and then Mira in real life is captured.

22:34 So. I have thoughts on that. It is not clear if what Berwyn is doing. Berwyn is the name of the sage, which I think we all know in Zayden's dreams is showing him the future or showing him a situation where he's going to try to manipulate him, right. So in the dream where he has Mira, he says if you come with her, her being Violet, I will let her live.

22:59 He specifically says I will let her live. What Theophany says to Garrick, if you come with Violet, if Violet comes in the next 5 hours, Dreyfus will stand. So they say different things, very specifically different things, right? Yeah. So the question is, and I think we have our answer, is what Berwyn is doing, which means what Violet can do, predicting the future or planting ideas in people's head.

23:24 They're both dangerous. But I think, I think it's the second one. And I think Berwyn might have done this to Melgren at the end of Iron Flame with the Battle of Samara. With the battle and Hispanic yeah, I I obviously have more to say on the dream walking signal, but I agree. And I also think it's pretty clear, at least from my read, that Berwyn and Theophany are competing in some capacity like they are not friends.

23:50 And so the fact that they're like luring and Berwyn is saying she'll live and Theophany is like, after that I'm going to slit her throat actually shows that the two are they don't seem stacked in rank or like they're working towards. They might be working towards the same goal, but not together, which means. Factions within the venom, which I'm sure will come up in a later episode, sure will.

24:11 Sure will one. Unexplained element of the dream walking and I'm curious whether you have thoughts on this because I I have only one and it's not very exciting. So they so Violet and Zaden talk and agreed that Zaden has had every dream that Violet has been in, but Violet in certain situations, I think in iron flame it's unclear or it seems like Zaden was very, very far away, like he was at Samara when she was having the stream. And so given their on doesn't even work over that distance, I don't know how she would walk in his dream over that distance. What either one she can or two.

24:44 Was she sleeping in close enough proximity, like directly under Imogen or directly near Garrick or Riddick or somebody else who is also having dreams in which they're held captive by Berwin? Interesting. I think so. So that it says very clearly in Onyx Storm that Zaden has had every dream that Violet has had. Like Violet describes all of these dreams. Satan has had every single 1.

25:05 So it's definitely his dream. That doesn't mean it's only his dream, but it's definitely his dream. And it definitely seems like Berwyn is specifically targeting him. Why? I don't think we know yet. And I think that can be, again, a different episode. But yeah. Yeah, maybe you just can't cover the distance.

25:23 Yeah, I don't know. And I think it might get back to that, missing him, like she wanted to see him so she walked into his dream, but she also does it when he's right next to her. Yeah, I can't wait for the Venom dreams. It's gonna be great. OK, then let's depart like reality for a second. Or at least what we know. Confirmed.

25:42 Because I have a theory that I know you know, but just act surprised about. I don't remember it so I will OK. You do. I don't think that Violets walking is limited to dreams. Signets are based off of what you need. We learn that with Zaden and secrets and Zaden and knowledge and ever since literally 4th wing the first book, she has had a need to literally be in other people's brains several times across the series. I don't think that this need originated within dharna beings in a dreamless sleep.

26:13 And it's usually when she's needed to enter people's minds, it's actually to alter their thinking and show them the truth. Truth because she's like a good person, but it's really to alter their thinking. The first time was in fourth wing when Amber Mavis helped bunch of unbonded attempt murder on Violet and she asked Taryn to show her memory to all the other Dragons, which was not normal and made him extremely uncomfortable.

26:35 Then it happened a second time when she needed those guys cadets to know about the vennen and resin. So she asks Taryn to share the memory. But even before that second event she has, she enters Zayden's mind multiple times, which we know might be the mating bond, but he would also logically be the easiest and most unfettered way for her to manifest mind walking.

26:56 And I think there's a difference in when he like supplies memories versus when she literally enters his mind in the throne room. And we know that like the first time that she wielded lightning, she was kissing Zaidan. And so I think, I hope, I also think that like I think it would be so cool if Violet's dream walking signet manifested and grew into mind walking because I think given what we've just seen in dreams, it would be incredibly powerful.

27:24 She's creating things in other people's minds. She's talking to them. And if I mean, in the case of war, this, if she could walk into other people's minds, she could make them think certain things. She could make them think that they're dying on the battlefield. Like she would be like an ultimate weapon if that is where the signet went.

27:41 And I think it'd be so cool. And I don't know if it will, because anytime that I think something's going to happen, like Rebecca doesn't make it happen, but it'd be pretty cool. And the ears say, I mean the arid say to and dharna they say to tear. And you gave her the gift of lightning. And then they say to and dharna.

27:54 And you gave her something much more dangerous, didn't you? I'd like dream walking. Is it that dangerous? I don't know. Like it's. Homeless so yes, so the two times that we have reliable sources on cygnets right so I'm I'm just taking the earrings like information as reliable because they pegged Zayden as a venom and they seem to know what everybody did upon looking at them. The earrings.

28:17 I have this quote somewhere, but I don't remember whether I wrote it down. The earrings looked at her and yes, they said, and Dana gifted or something far more dangerous. And when and Dana was asked about it directly by Violet Taran was like, I've never even heard of dream walking. And and Dana said you're known to wander dreams from time to time. It's harmless and that's all we know is that she's known that she's known to wander dreams and she's like, you're mostly drawn to him anyways.

28:40 So I think the dream walking could be really cool, but I think it definitely has potential to be something more and I'm excited for whatever we're going to find out about it. What do you think? Do you think I honestly only had one additional note on here, but then I have a follow up question, which is that it is pointed out so many times that she could feel things in these dreams, like dream sex is happening.

29:00 Yeah, like that's happening. Thank you, Rebecca. I look forward to it. Do you think the way that death works in this series, right. We've already had Liam come back in some form. Do you think she can talk to the dead? Basically? Like do you think she can mind walk into dead people? I have, I just have no reason to believe that that's part of this segment, but I'm not ruling it out, right.

29:25 Like I think and we'll, I think we'll talk about like dedication and her gods and all of that at some point. But I, I kind of, I think that that is true that she will be able to interface with, she already has interface with people who are dead and she'll continue to be able to do that. But I don't know that it's connected to this signet cuz where would that mind be I guess if the soul is just wandering?

29:47 Right. Is the soul, is she really soul walking like we're calling it mind walking, but is she really, is she really assault walking, you know, or like if? If she's in someone's dream, can a soul and a deceased person be in a dream and then like they're actually there and she could interface with them? I could see that too cuz you could argue that she was basically like in her own dream state when she was being tortured and Liam.

30:12 Was there? OK, so Malik specifically does not have an island. Do you think he is a Bay though? I know he has a Bay. We've never talked about it. I don't get why that's on the map. Do you think his realm is? The dream Dreams, yeah. This is a different episode. This is not our deep dive episode. We're.

30:31 Cutting it off, we're cutting it. Off Yeah, I think this is a wild signet. I think it's going to be so crazy. I look sorry about it. But Rebecca has also said, I know you haven't read a lot of Rebecca's stuff. I haven't either. I just listened to one interview. She hates heroines who just have all the power. Like she doesn't think that's fun. So there will be limits.

30:52 Yeah, I know and agree that there I think there should be limits, but I think that Violet and Zaden together are an answer of sorts. Like I think she is a yen to a Yang situation. I don't think she's limitless. All right, do we want to have more on dream walking? I think we're, I think I'm good on dream walking.

31:10 I think anything else that we would get into just gets into other episodes, like dream walking is going to be a sick signet and I think it's mind walking and that's it. Agree. Our next question was why was Aunt Darna waiting for her to hash? She really why does Aunt Darna pick Violet? So what and Darna says specifically is that she waited 650 years for Violet. She heard about the like weak daughter of the general and she knew that she would be hers also. And Darna says mine a lot.

31:37 The way that Zaden also calls Violet mine and Taryn does too. Like this is an important word. Mine. I knew you would be mine. You had the mind of a scribe in the heart of a writer. And I knew. And Violet is like, I didn't even know I would be a writer at that point. And then says and yet here we are all sassy, which I love. OK, so my first thought about this. And Darna says she waited 650 years exactly. She gives us an exact number.

32:04 We are, we are in year, I believe 632 maybe. So the Great War and the unification have not happened yet. When they leave in Dharna behind, why did they leave her behind? Why was she the criterion? I don't have an answer for that. I just think that's an important detail that Rebecca would not put in there if it weren't juicy.

32:24 Yeah, I mean, she, her conception had to predate the unification. We know the Earids are there for the unification because the ward stone is fired and then they leave. They leave almost immediately because the second ward stone in Orisha is not fired. And we get kind of conflicting information here.

32:41 But, and Dharna says she was left behind to fire the ward stone. I am assuming it's to fire the second ward stone, but how did the Earids know a second ward stone was going to be there you know? What's the stone already created? And they needed dharna to be the judge that the people that own that second word stone were worthy.

32:59 Which makes no sense, right? Because you would think if you're an Irid and what you want is peace, a word stone is a way to peace, right? Yeah. So like, this whole thing is sketchy. This doesn't make any sense. If anyone's wondering how we know that the Irids left before the 2nd Ward stone was fired, there's an epigraph where Lira talks about like, if I'm to be court martialed, fine, but I'm putting up another word stone should the others ever return. The others in this case, it's not clear. But when you read it again, it seems to be talking about the Irid.

33:27 So we know the Irid leave before the Arisha Ward stone can be fired, but within the lifetime of Lira. What the fucked earrids? That's not a cool move, OK? Very surprisingly unhelpful for somebody who wants peace. Claims to want peace, right? Yeah. Which again, I think we will. There's so many parallels between Earrids and Fennin, specifically in the way they hide in the dark. Different episode but very interesting. They're also.

33:55 A balance. They're a bounce. They are magic. I think they are magic. This also means right? But there have been no earrings in the Imperium since the Unification 0 yeah. Because she's the oldest of her den. Yeah, she's the oldest of her den. And a follow up question to that, did they leave the continent or did they come to the continent to fire the ward stone and to leave and dharna? I don't think we have the answer to that. We definitely don't.

34:19 No, we don't. We never heard anything about their hatching grounds. We get information about obviously the other dens, hatching grounds here and there, but I don't know where the earrings. We're still a little off the rails, but this is so interesting. I want to keep talking about it. When they go to Hidalcus and those in all Island, Yeah, Rebecca makes a point to put this in and Dharna scratches the ground with a single talent. That's the first thing they do.

34:44 Like when when they land is she scratches the ground with a single talent. And then after that, both times she says we my family's not here. Like they're not here. So she knows, like just looking at the ground, she knows. Yeah, it's something that's under the ground, right. And we know that Fennon pull from the ground anyway. Yeah.

35:03 I. Anyway, back-to-back to why? And Darna. Why? And Darna shows Violet. Yeah. So what she says when they're having this conversation, when Violet confronts her and says you're not a black dragon. And Darna says you are as unique as I am. You want the same things. You have the heart of a writer and the mind of a scribe. That's on page 539 of Iron Flame for anyone following along on the book.

35:25 You have the heart of a writer and the mind of a scribe. I would argue Dane also has the heart of a writer and the mind of a scribe, Right? So for whatever reason, that's not really enough. Because if it were, she would have picked Dane. But then she says you are as unique as I am. We want the same things.

35:44 I think this is really important. What Aunt Dharna wants is to find out who she is. That's what she wants. She wants to know her family. She wants to understand what she is. Violet has never said anything about wanting that because Violet thinks she knows who she is. But if she doesn't, if she's something else, then I think that will be something that's explored more in Book 4.

36:03 Like this to me points to what we were saying about before. Like Violet is a writer and many other things too, and I don't know of her and Andarna are the same type of other thing, or if it's just that Andarna recognized that Violet is different from everyone else the way that Andarna is also different from everyone else. Yeah, I agree.

36:22 I also think they have they have similar themes and personas, right? Like near the end of Onyx Storm when Violet is basically it's shoved in her face that she's going to be the death of all of them because she'll choose everyone. She also calls out that Andarna would choose everyone. Like they both have like a due N moral compass to a fault but they're also incredibly violent and I do feel like they're like they are basically the same persona just in different forms. I also think it's slightly unusual that and Darna was able to tell who Violet would be just through hearing the elders talking.

36:57 And Fee is really oddly quiet when Taryn makes it super clear that he knew nothing of her father's research. And I don't know what capabilities and Darna or just Dragons in general have with regards to like foresight or anything like that. But like, and Darna definitely knows something that we don't. She's able, she was able to tell who Violet would be from the hatching grounds.

37:22 And I don't think that that's common for Dragons. Like the other Dragons show up at Threshing and see what's available and who's who based on laying eyes on them. And I don't know that we've ever heard of a dragon hatching for some, for a rider, right? Yeah, no, definitely. And I think that there's also just some, like there's the irids are obviously in the aisles.

37:41 The aisles are dedicated to the gods. There's oracles. Like something is there that brings the two of them together. That's not just you would have the mind of a scribe in the heart of a rider. I just refuse to believe that that is all there is to it. I agree, I don't know that we know more. At this, yeah, I don't think. Obviously, obviously the next book is gonna like I'm assuming like maybe because we know Endarna could manipulate time when she was a Hashling, right?

38:07 So maybe Endarna has actually been gone for years, even though it seems like it's only weeks. Maybe like time is different on the year at aisle, like maybe they can change. It Yeah, yeah, yeah. She could have been gone for ever and just come back. Yeah. Yeah. I think one other thing related to Asher and like Andarna finding Violet, it can't be coincidence that Asher spent his entire, like, adult life putting together these texts on feather tales.

38:36 And then like Andarna finds Violet. And I wonder whether Andarna didn't find Violet and choose her because he left those texts to her because he specifically said, like, I wrote this study so that it could be read by others, but understood by you. Like, I don't think he could write the answer because he needed it to be.

38:52 He intended to be publicly disseminated, but he knew that Violet would have the ability to piece everything together. And I think that Violet and Andarna together are the weapon. But yes, I agree with you, but my point about Dane states that. He's a spare, he's a back. Kind of. Right, Right. I agree.

39:12 Except. Except that Violet is the one who figures out that Deverelli was dealing in dragon eggs and Dane doesn't. Yeah, so like Dane just wasn't smart enough. Sorry, Dane. He's a backup. Just like Bodie said, yeah. Yeah, there's enough to unpack there that whatever the answers are to all the questions that we have based on that will be the answer to the winning this war, ending the war, not winning.

39:34 Yeah, I think they're the key. Especially because, like, Taryn chose Violet first, right? Like it didn't need to be an dharna. So like, yeah, she attached herself right? It also means the Violet can survive without and dharna. And Taryn. I don't know if Anna Taryn maybe, but I feel like we were given something very intentional when Leophen said who bonded you first? Yeah, but that's because he said you've already broken the bond rule.

40:00 Humans are only supposed to bond to 1 dragon and you've already fucked with that. Yeah, you've created a second one where the second one shouldn't exist I suppose. Like maybe now Taryn dying would kill her, but. And Arnaz 2 and so maybe by the time she's has more power. Maybe she's not turned. I wouldn't though if she's gone to a different aisle where time moves faster.

40:20 Maybe she's 20. Who knows? Might be end well. Next storm you mean? Yeah, I. Don't know. I don't know. I don't want either of them to die. But I'm saying if we lose a dragon, yeah, it's not going to be Aunt Darna. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Too important. And she's a kid. Rebecca's not going to kill a. Kid Yeah, yeah, We get so little time with Andarna after she comes back, but I don't feel like we really had time to understand anything about her or what's changed. I don't know, but Theophany is like, I mean, Andarna is why Theophany dies.

40:48 It's not because of Zeta, it's because yeah, Theophany bumps into Andarna and it's just like spellbound and Violet can stab her cuz otherwise we often he could have just pieced we know she can move at lightning speed like she could have just left. All that could have been for nothing if not for Indarna.

41:06 Yeah. Yes. Anything else on Indarna waiting to hatch? No, we covered. We covered it, I think, Yeah. OK, so the next question we asked ourselves were what are the paths that Violet might choose? So for context, when Violet was going to be dedicated, which we learn about an Onyx storm to Dune, it's noted that they start dedicating her and they cannot finish the process because her path is not set. And so it's implied that Violet has multiple paths and we see this kind of thematically throughout throughout the book. And so I am curious your thoughts on this because I have obviously some but not a ton to go off of. So I isolated kind of 3 1/2 ish paths for Violet that all have the same kind of theme.

41:49 And you could argue that one side versus the other is all intertwined. There was the 1st and most obvious which was become a scribe or become a rider. And we know that you know that Lilith forced the rider upon her but she reinforced it. Like at the end of the day she ultimately chose and rejected Danes many invitations to sneaker into the scribe scribe quadrant when it was invited.

42:13 So scribe versus rider. Then we have Dane versus Zaden, which I feel like the average reader wouldn't necessarily even recognize that as a choice to be made, but she was like materially interested in Dane to the point of kissing him when she came into the Rider's squadron. Dane kind of embodies like the scribe side of that battle and Zaden the Rider, but we know that Dane ultimately is a Rider as well. And so I think Dane and Zaden deserve kind of their own paths. And at the end of 4th Wing, there's a verbatim where Violet says, I can't help but note both of the important men are walking away from me right now in opposite directions. And given the one I've chosen to follow, my life is about to change forever.

42:52 So we can assume that she chose basically Zaden from that the path as well. And then the last one is like maybe a little bit of a reach from like the verbatim, like we have hard evidence of this perspective. But I think there's also a path of being like her father versus being like her mother. And I don't feel like that's exactly scribe versus rider because I think even within the rider's quadrant, there is still a divide from what we hear and learn of Asher and Lilith on Asher kind of trying to attack like this broader conflict head on versus Lilith kind of receding and protecting, protecting Navarre Navarre.

43:32 And so I think that's like the path and 1/2 is being like her father versus being like her mother. And also like within the rider's quadrant, the kind of half decision is choosing to protect Navarre in the way that Navarre has chosen to protect itself and ignore kind of the rest of the world versus go out and and. Fight the Venom, which is the other one that she chose. So that's really what I have on Paths. I feel like there's some stuff there, but I'm curious your thoughts or whether you had other ones that I didn't mention.

43:56 So I had in my mind, choosing Zaden and Dane versus Ryder versus Scribe is the same path, right? If she chooses Dane, she chooses A scribe. If she chooses Dane, she becomes a scribe, right? That's the only way he'll kind of accept her, which is absolute fucking bullshit. And then if she chooses Aiden, he will work with her. He will elevate her.

44:16 He will make her into, well, she will become a writer. I don't, I don't like saying he won't make her a writer, but I think I actually think there's three paths here. And the reason I think that is because of the combat scenario in Unbrio. So I think the choices are Zaden Dean and herself. So she has to pick one of those 3 because there's three combatants in Unbreal and they always were going to have three combatants.

44:42 And the person who made that choice was the High Priestess of June in Onbreal. And if you remember during that fight, Eric, he really wants to fight. He tries to fight like 3 times. Yeah, and she won't let him. But she but she pushes Dane and she pushes Violet into the fight. In my mind, that's because she's testing the three of them. She's seeing who is worthy in Dune's eyes to actually be Violet's path and Violet wins.

45:10 Like Zaden only lives because Violet throws her dagger and wounds his combatant. I don't. I think it is Zaden verse name but I think it's her too. Like, she has to choose to not obviously don't choose Dane. Dane's a bad choice. But like, even more than that, it's like choosing herself over Zaden because obviously Zaden is not coached out a good path here.

45:34 Like, she can't follow him. Yeah. And I think, I think that's what that fight was about, is that at the end of the day, she's going to have to choose her. She will save Zaden, right? She saves Zaden in the fight. And I know you and I have different opinions about how this series ends. I fully believe she saves Aiden.

45:52 I like want to believe. That and to be. Clear. And as the yeah, whatever, we'll get to that. I agree. And I actually think that now that I'm thinking about how it was phrased, like even with is it Grandma Niara, Violet's grandmother, there's like some something told by an Oracle, right? Where if she chooses it's implied if she chooses Aidan's path right then she can still come back to Dune for mentorship but the heart that beats for her is like turns dark basically for all the right reasons.

46:22 OK so this is that's one path. I think Zaden turning and her choosing herself is 1 path. Right. So this is so, the priestess says in Unreal. I still see us among your past. And Zaden has already turned, right. So even though Zaden's turn, she can still go to do and she could still become dedicated.

46:40 And maybe that is what happens at the end of the book. We're not. We're not touching that today, Right. But it's it's her choice to not follow him. And if you believe that Zaden did not kidnap her, drug her and force her to marry him, which I do, I don't think Zaden would do that. I think she had to choose it. Then it's choosing herself, Right? And she's the only one who wins her battle kind of outright. Yeah.

47:06 That's also that's a good point though. Like there is definitely a path, a decision point, like a fork in the road for her to turn versus not. Yeah, it's at the end of Iron Flame. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's like, I feel like it comes back several times after that though, because they're after her. Like the Vennon. It's and it's unclear to me and we should get to this when we talk about Zaden, Violet and Vennon in general. It's unclear to me like who they actually want because she's called a leash.

47:30 They begged him to bring her. Like that's a whole separate. I totally agree. It's like at first they seem to want Zaden, then they want Violet, then they want both of them. I don't know. It's yeah. We'll dissect that at a later date. Other side note which I thought was interesting. This isn't this just has to do with the Unbrio fight. There's a line in Onyx Storm where Zaden says we are allowed to enter court at the level of the combatant. That would be according to your laws. He's talking to the guards and Unbridge. Violet beats their queen.

48:00 Is Violet the Queen of Unbreal? I don't know, but I think maybe. I think we've left that door open. I've thought some this is really the second or the last question. The last question. OK, All right, we'll come back to it. The second thing, this is a different path. I agree on your pass. I think her other path, this has to do with the one who curries her favor. I think you.

48:21 Know who I think that is? I know who people think that is. I think it's loyal. I don't think it's Malik. So loyal. For everyone who forgets because this is barely mentioned, is the goddess God goddess of love the reason I think she think it's loyal and not Malik. I do think Malik is important. I think she will literally meet Malik. But I think the other who curries her favorite is loyal because the priestess says to Violet. Do you not yearn for temple?

48:46 Usually the touch created such longing that you can't help her but return. Or perhaps now you favor another God and her eyes slide to Zadan. The way she describes temple is exactly the way Violet describes sex with Zadan. Like one touch is all it takes. She can never have enough, it will never be enough. It she always needs more, right?

49:05 And then, yeah, go ahead. So I noticed the exact same thing when she says like do not yearn for temple, like usually somebody who's touched literally can't stay away. And obviously also thought like Zaden is her temple, but Zaden is also throughout every single like most of the sex scenes is compared to Dune, like the wrath of Dune avenging Angel.

49:28 He's compared to a lot of deities. And I don't know whether like it makes sense that it it definitely could be loyal, like totally. But I don't think it's like I had actually in my head that thought, OK, if she's been touched by Dune and she hasn't yearned for Temple, then Zaden represents some embodiment of Dune. It could be that.

49:46 But in that case, well, and there's that scene, the first scene, the second time they have sex in fourth wing. He's like, she cries out to the gods and he says, which one? I'm the only one here. You. Yeah, right. And she says, you right? Just like, holy shit. He also talked like, he's constantly talking about worshiping her, right?

50:05 And like, he's like, you are the temple where I worship. She's like, what are you doing? He goes worshiping like, yeah, their sex is like a religious act, right? And you pointed this out to me. He goes from calling her violence to love. Following her love, yeah. Right, which is not I can't be a coincidence, right?

50:22 So like if he's violence, then she's love, but if she's violence, then he's love. I don't know, I I think you're right that maybe Zaden is Dune. Like, that kind of does make more sense. But that's also because we're getting it from her point of view. Like, we don't know what she looks like during battle, you know? And Dune is a goddess, not a God. I don't know.

50:44 And Zaden turns for love. Yeah. Like everything he does is for love, even if it's violent. Yeah, I agree. Like this is the part I'm really stuck on because I could literally, I think I could make a case for both of them being touched by Dune. Loyal and Malik. Yeah, all, all of them. And so I'm like, I don't know what, but like the love and war.

51:06 Love and war is mentioned many times, right? Your soul is irrevocably. Changed, which is going to be important by love and war. Like that fucking matters. They're the only two gods that require a lifetime commitment, lifetime dedication. And they also just never stop talking about Malik. And so I'm just, there's something there. There's something in what the priestess says. Maybe you've begun to worship another God and looking at Taryn and looking at Zaden.

51:32 Yeah, right, she does look at Taryn. First she looks at Taryn first and I don't. I don't know. The only only God that Zaden is continuously compared to is Dune with the exception of the avenging Angel slash messenger of the gods comment which seems more Malik rooted. But he does everything for love and so you could you could argue that he worships love and that Violet is love, which he says, and that he is war.

51:57 I don't know. I think, I mean, we all know they didn't make it to the Love Island. Ha, ha. Love Island. Yeah. I am shocked if we don't get there in book in Book 4. Like, it feels so important. Like, yeah, I agree. And then the last path that she talks about is Theophany. She has a quote that's like was one of the paths that the priestess saw for me working with Theophany, going to Theophany.

52:20 But I don't, I mean, obviously that doesn't really play out like Theophany definitely dies, but I think think turning then in. I mean, I think it lies in the same path as turning. I agree with those paths. I mean I think it's it's paths galore for Violet honestly. And no one really talks about paths for any other characters.

52:37 But it does feel like she has the most, she has the highest number of forks in the road. Well, the other place where they talk about paths is finding a cure and finding and Darna's family. Like they linked those two together. But Violet says constantly and darn every possible path, which feels intentional, like, like her paths obviously lead to finding a cure or something.

52:58 Yeah. It almost seems like there is a specific path she needs to go down to either find or be the cure, and she's still trying to figure out what that is. Eric knows what it is. No I can't believe we haven't actually talked to Eric since we found like. We basically find out that he's a pre gog and then never see him again. Like, we don't even see him when we find out he's pretty high and he's probably with Zadan, right?

53:23 That's what people think. He is unaccounted for. He's unaccounted for. Our final question for the day it's why is Violet's hair partially silver? So we all know Violet has partially silver hair, no matter how short she cuts it. Mira thinks it grew in that way. There's a couple theories. Lilith told her that her hair was silver because she, Lilith, she Lilith, was ill while she was pregnant with Violet and that illness sapped her strength. Obviously, people who are dedicated to Dune have fully silver hair.

53:52 One of the things that we know is that the priestesses and I guess maybe priests as well in Davar who are dedicated to Dune, who work at the temple, have to dye their hair. So their hair does not come in naturally silver. But when Violet shows up to defend the temple when the venom are attacking and Orisha, the priestess says to her, oh, do you have to dye your hair? And Violet says, no, it grows in that way. And then the priestess says, you have come from very far to protect us.

54:20 We assume that means that the priestess is an unreal don't dye their hair doesn't necessarily mean that because this is Rebecca, it could mean anything, but that is the assumption of what that means. And then Violet says, aren't you going to protect yourself? And the priestess says Dune will protect us. And Violet says Dune isn't going to appear and take up arms. And the priestess says of course not she sent you right? And there is also speculation at the end of the book that the reason why Brennan's, I don't know, Lieutenant or something does a double take when he sees Violet is because her hair is now fully silver and she is now fully dedicated to do. Could be.

54:59 I'm not 100% convinced because I still think she has multiple paths to go down. Yeah, but it's it's has it's so her hair is silver basically because she was touched and but not fully dedicated, which ties into our past question. I didn't end up having a lot for this. I know. I think I was the one who wanted this question, but I in the end didn't have a lot of notes.

55:17 So I'm very happy to hear what you say. Yeah, I mean, I, I some of the same things that you noted, right? We, we know from Mira's visit to Grandma and from Violet's time, and I'm real that Asher definitely attempted to dedicate Violet to Dune. They wouldn't complete the dedication because her path wasn't set. We also reach the same conclusion. I took it a little bit further and said that perhaps dedication can only take place in Unbreal given the temple attendants and tear and or dye their hair, and those in Umbreal mentioned no such thing and so you can assume we already assumed. But now we can pretty solidly say that Violet was likely dedicated in Unbreal.

55:54 The question was why is your hair partially silver? I think part of the answer to that is that she was touched slash not completely dedicated, but partially dedicated to Dune. In Unreal. We also already talked about how she doesn't feel a pull to the temple, but she certainly feels an impossible to say pull to Zaden.

56:16 And so is Zaden also touched also dedicated and bodies Dune? I don't know. Does he embody a different God? More on that in the Zaden episode, But I also think it like kind of brings up a question of, OK, yes, Violet's hair is partially silver because she's dedicated to Dune in part. Why was she educated to do that is a much bigger question and a harder one to answer and obviously has a lot to do with Asher and Lilith. But we know that Asher went in secret, He's not tell Lilith it was happening.

56:44 We know that Grimm in the yard doesn't speak to them anymore as a result of it. And Lilith said she might never forgive Asher, but I think the actual ask of this question is why he do that. Why do you bring her there? Well, OK, So what Brennan says is that children are dedicated when they're, I don't remember the exact quote, but it's basically to sick. Benefit to the child, right?

57:05 Benefit to the child. Yeah. So was something wrong with Violet? Or was that a lie? Or was that a lie? I mean? Or did he think that it would solve the fact that violets like tendons don't really work right? Well, right, that's what. That's what Violet thought, but then either Breton or Mira says, no, Dad thought you were perfect. He would never try to fix you.

57:23 I think Mira says it right. So I think, you know, my original theory was that, I mean, this is a common theory that Lilith turned venin and that dedicating Violet was the way to cure her. I don't think that anymore because and this again, we'll talk about this more in the the venin episodes. Lilith is the one who's trying to find a cure for Jack. Lilith is the one who's ordering Nolan. We know that because Nolan writes a letter to Lilith. It's one of the epigraphs at the beginning of the chapters. If Lilith knew of a cure, she would not be looking for it. And I'm also not convinced that Lilith is cured to be honest. I think she might still be abandoned at the end of Iron Flame.

58:01 I think she might have like delayed it. I think she might have found a way to put it off. But I don't think I don't necessarily think she found a cure. And maybe this was the way to delay it was by dedicating Violet. But what if Lilith was then? And even if she was then and towards at the end, what if she, Asher, did all of this behind her back? Like, he didn't tell her anything that we know. And he also didn't.

58:22 Yeah, that we know of. We do know that a month, two months are missing of her journals, right? Right. When, when she and Asher are in the aisles. And Asher specifically says in the text that he left for Violet that he wrote them so that all could read, but only she would understand. I still think it's possible that he figured it out but could not tell her or put it in into texts because he knew that leadership was corrupted. I don't disagree.

58:45 I think that's totally a possibility. Right, and that also means he no longer trusted Lilith. Yeah, trust only Mira. He didn't know that Lilith was dead when she was going to be reading that right? Unless he did, yeah. And trust only Mira, right? Which again, they're the only ones that we know of that can create things with their segment.

59:02 I know it's like one of the oldest theories in the book, but it still kind of feels like it might have been working towards a resolution of some type. I don't know if it's a cure for venom. Anyway, but I also think it would be classic Rebecca to make us think it's a cure for venom. 100% I just. Don't think at the end of the day something with war is going to be the way to cure venom.

59:22 It's like leaning towards as corny as it sounds like love is going to be the answer because we have that that epigraph about the Ven and woman who destroyed a town except for her family, like she'd let her family live and like that means and so Theophany says 2 important things, as many important things for two very important things. She says we don't feel love and we lie, which in my mind means she's lying about Ven and not feeling love. I think Ven and do feel love, especially if they turn for love, right.

59:53 I don't know if anyone's turn for love before. Like Berwyn says, people usually turn because they're jealous or they crave power. I think those were the two things and that. But then he says to Zadem, but you, you will turn for love. So I don't know if anyone's done this before. Which might mean love is the answer, right? Like the fact that Zadem turns for love means he can't be fully corrupted.

1:00:12 This is so interesting. This is the whole can of worms. Like what if it's not that he was trying to save Lilith? What if he was trying to save the continent And he knew that Violet needed He knew what Violet was going to become because of the oracles on. The island. So he knew he needed to dedicate her.

1:00:30 But it's not to save Lilith, it's to make her more powerful so that she can ultimately defeat the veteran. I don't know. I think that's honestly more likely. Like I think even if I mean, who knows, right? But even if Lilith were Benin, like who's to say? Because we we know that Asher spent a bunch of time in the aisles, including time before he was married to Lilith based on his epigraphs, right?

1:00:52 And. We should display why we know that. OK, We know that because the epigraphs are It says the rank that Asher is at when he's writing each epigraph and his maiden name. His maiden name quote, UN quote is Daxton, right? So we know at which point I think he becomes, I think he's General Asher Sorengal or something.

1:01:15 We know the point at which he actually marries Lilith. So we know, I think it's the first 3 bucks. And again, we'll do this more when we do the Asher deep dive. He's not married to Lilith because they're written by Asher Daxton. And we also know at one point there is a General Daxton who's a scribe.

1:01:32 That's not Asher, that's going to be a family member. I'm betting it's grandma, but we don't know. Yeah, Yep. So, so it would be equally interesting even if Lil, even if everything wasn't to save Lilith, if Asher had been raised or spent a lot of time around the temples, in the aisles, had talked to Oracle's.

1:01:52 And even if Lilith like was then in at some point or was been in her entire life. And that played into him lining everything up such that Violet could be an answer, or could find the answer. And that's incredibly cryptic, but I can't complete the thought without sounding insane. So hey, at some point. Yeah, break in one corner.

1:02:12 At some point we need she either figures there's two options. She either talks to Asher, dead or alive. Again, dead or alive, or or she figures it out from the books, right, because we've only seen Asher wrote seven books. We've only seen three or four of them. I can't remember the exact number. Again, we'll get more on this in the Asher little deep dive, but I don't know, inconclusive. I think it's where we landed on this side, Yeah. The Why the?

1:02:38 Tactical why is somewhat clear. The greater why is her hair silver is for debate. OK, we wanted to conclude the episode and potentially every episode depending on how it goes with a segment called Precog Corner, which is where we discuss our absolute wildest crackpot theory for whatever topic we're discussing at that time.

1:03:02 So welcome to Precall Corner. Do you wanna start? I'm nervous we're gonna have the same one, but go for. It I don't think we had the same one because mine just occurred to me. OK. And again, I'm more worried that we have the same one now, but OK. Well, it occurred to me before this episode, and it has nothing to do with Vennon, kind of.

1:03:19 I think when we do our Zadan episode, the why of this will become clearer. I think Violet becomes queen of all of Navarre and the General of the Army. There are a couple of reasons why I picked this one. And again, we'll get into this in the Zadan episode. The way that Eric and Zadan are scheming, it seems incredibly important that Violet becomes Duchess of Tyrandor and is in charge of their army. Like it?

1:03:45 You can read that book and realize that everything that they are doing, Bodie is the spare I. I will give you that. Like Bodie is Plan B, but everything they are doing is to get Violet to the point where she will be the Duchess of Terendor. Like that is all that matters, right? So like that is very important that Violet is the Duchess of Terendor and in control of their army.

1:04:05 After after Violet gives her speech and Onyx flame. And the speech is when there's three, there's three factions back at Bezgaya. So there's the Oration Riders who left with Violet and Zetan to go to Terendor because they believe that the Venon are there. There's the original riders who didn't leave, who always stayed at Bezgaya. And then there's the Griffin Flyers and they're all about to fight each other.

1:04:27 Like tensions are boiling over. They all hate each other. Violet gives a speech, a very good speech about how like we need to, we can't be this way. The Venom are coming. We need to solve this right now. And it works. And Eric and Zaden, who are clearly already scheming at this point, right? Eric says, wow, that was quite a speech. Violet should be a politician at the very least a general. And Zaden says, I'm I was thinking a Duchess, right? So at that point, I'm pretty convinced they're already scheming on this.

1:04:55 So Eric says she should be general, which leads me to believe she will be the general of the armies. Whether that's just the Arishan army, which I think she is. I think by being the Duchess of Tyrandor, she is the general. She is like the commanding general of the army. I think she is. Rebecca is very specific about dropping in these little Nuggets that Violet has lived in every province on the country. She has been everywhere, which leads me to believe that she would be accepted if she were to be queen. Like everyone would say, OK, she's been here, she's been here, she's been here.

1:05:26 She knows all of us. She should be queen. So I like, I'm like the first 75% of my logic, I think is like unflappable. The last 25 is where this kind of goes off the rails. But basically I think we know she's the Duchess already. We know Eric says she should be a general combined with the fact that she's literally lived everywhere and and the way she drops in these Nuggets is very, very specific. But like it's literally in each book. It's like a different province as much and where they grew up. I think.

1:05:54 I think she becomes queen. I think she gets all of it. I like it. I can definitely see it. I think the other like interesting added tidbit other than the fact that she just like really grew into leadership capabilities and Onyx Storm that we have not seen to date is the fact that through the epigraphs, we also know that within their lifetime there is a new world and a new language.

1:06:15 So we know that more than likely the world unites in some capacity because there is like a new modern tongue that even replaces Navarre. So at least maybe the continent unites or something to that effect, I don't know. And the only person so far that has ties to both the aisles and the continent other than Zaden is violent.

1:06:38 Okay, so we look at who could be, who could be king, right? It's Halden and Eric. Eric says he's going to die. Eric says he's going to die, Eric says. He's going to die. I'm going to be devastated if she does it. But like Eric says, I'm going to die. He. Said more than likely, yeah, I or something like that, yeah.

1:06:55 I don't think Halden if there is a unification and a second great unification that includes peromial, I don't think Halden will be accepted as the leader. Right. I think there will be a coup or something. There's no way Halden rules. There's no way Halden rules. He's not, Yeah, no one likes him, right?

1:07:11 He gets shot down in the scenario by like by Violet, right? Which is another piece of symbolism that lends to Violet being a better leader than he is. Or at least he acknowledges that she is. Yeah. So I think, I think this ends with her being queen. OK. Mine is way more far fetched in my opinion and has significantly less evidence.

1:07:31 It's really just a hunch. So when we 2 main things led me to this and among a bunch of other small things. The first is that when they finally find the Earids on the island that they were lucky enough to land on, which we'll get at another time. The Irid say there's no cure for venom. Like there's no there's nothing you can do. Their souls die.

1:07:54 And when prodded and asked Are you sure that there's nothing that could be done? The Irid say maybe their offspring could evolve. And it's kind of a throwaway comment and like a cop out. We also know that when Violet is training with Felix, he teaches her that her power is attracted to venom and that it will actually, the venom will actually pull her power will draw itself towards the venom if she recognizes that that can be true.

1:08:22 And so I think that Violet is a combination of Venom and Ryder, and that she is the beginning of evolved offspring. I believe you because I think Lilith was a venom. I don't think Lilith was ever cured. The question is, was she event and before she had Violet well. That's what I'm saying is I think she was like, I think that Violet is and that's part of why she has the issues that she has is the Violet is biologically offspring of a maybe not like maybe initiate then, right and a human and I said.

1:08:54 Rider, do you think that? I'm not sure. Yeah, that's fair. It's fair, then, that I. Think then in a human. I don't know whether it was Asher or Lilith, but it only needs to be one of them for her to experience biological impact. I mean, yeah, there is also a theory going around that Asher is big Bad Venon.

1:09:12 But could he could still be, Yeah. But I find it like, I honestly have basically no proof for this other than the fact that that that comment from the ear is and the, like, small allusion to the fact that her power is attracted to Ben. And there's a bunch of other little things, right? Like she kind of sympathizes.

1:09:28 She alludes many times to the fact that she sort of sympathizes with Benin in some capacity. Like, oh, I understand why they would want that power. Like I, I get it. She's softer to them. She's also softer to Zaden. Obviously there's. Literally no way that's a throwaway line. You're absolutely 100% correct. Like she didn't just put that in there. That's that was an attentional line. Yeah.

1:09:47 I just don't know whether it already happened or whether it's going to happen. But like the dedication does not line up to the weakness. I just don't think that those two things are conflated. So what if she was dedicated to save? Her, yeah, OK yeah, to save her soul. And that's why they're one soul.

1:10:02 Her and them have a full 1. Her and Zeta and. Both don't matter, so yeah. Oh my God I love this book crackpot so much. And on that note. I think you. I think, I think you're right. You're right. I think Violet is then an offspring. And then that could also explain why In Derna waited. She's a balance.

1:10:20 Well right, that could explain everything. She's the exception to the balance. Because she's not. Because she's not Fenton or human. Fuck. Imagine theophany surprise when she found out it was her. I feel like we should write an essay. So yeah, that's my far out theory. And I feel I also feel like it is one of those where like the more you think about it, the more things could fit.

1:10:41 But also like we have so little to go off of so I really have no idea. It's just one of those things where a lot of other things could be explained. If that were the case. She's the exception to the rule. Right. It's clear that something makes her special, but the question is what is making her special?

1:10:57 And if it's that she's half venom. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's honestly not a super uncommon fantasy trope, right? Like cross, blood unites the kingdoms. Yeah, I mean, Eric Gorn has elvish blood. Yeah. So not to make it seem not unique because this world is is sick and unique, but yeah, all right, I feel like I could talk so much longer, but we should probably wrap it up. Yes.

1:11:19 On that crackpot theory note, thank you for listening. We. Will be back. Doing more of exactly this, sitting and talking through theories and blowing each other's and potentially your minds. If you do have topics that you want us to cover or specific questions related to a topic that you want us to ask, you can reach us at dragonsinthedetailspod@gmail.com. We'll link it in the show notes.

1:11:42 Or if you want to tell us that we're completely wrong, we're open to that. We can handle it. Please do give us feedback. Come with receipts, do not tell us we're wrong, and offer absolutely no evidence. Like you want chapter numbers, I want page numbers, I want quotes. Agree. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening, until next time.