NEW Ape Escape Game in Development

Hey everybody, welcome to Game Mess Mornings with me, Jeff Grubb, your host from GiantBomb.com. Thank you for tuning in. In this episode, we're going to be talking about how you can probably play one of the best games of the year right now without buying it, and more bad news for the price of next-gen consoles and current consoles and everything else. It's going to be a good one because we have Dan Reb, Victoria, excuse me, on the show.

Dan Reb, how are you doing?

I'm doing great, man. Happy to be here.

Yeah, I'm glad to have you on. This is fantastic.

I always get to see each other at industry events, and now we have you on the show.

Very, very cool.

Tell people a little bit about yourselves. Where can they get the Dan Reb experience?

Yeah, so I do a whole bunch of different things in the industry. First and foremost, I am a community manager. I worked at EA for about seven years. Unfortunately, I was laid off there, but... Six months later, I was picked up by a nonprofit called Gamers Outreach. And for those of you that don't know the organization, what we do is we bring video games to kids in hospitals.

So moving from microtransactions to all of a sudden helping kids is totally cool for my social media. So there's that. But the way that you and a bunch of people who watch the show probably know me is as the owner of Smashpad.com. I've had that site for way over 20 years now. I actually, you know, I want to go ahead and congratulate and thank you again. First, for going independent. That's awesome. Secondly, like, Smashpad wouldn't exist without Giant Bomb because a bunch of our founders started off as GameSpot moderators. And then with all that stuff, with Gershman happened, like, we sort of went and made our own thing. And, yeah, like, we're really happy about where we are. And over the past few years, we've seen, like,

300% growth. And that's all because of, like, you know, being able to chill with you guys. So really, really appreciate everything that you've done for the industry.

Yeah, like I said, it's always great to see you at stuff and then hang out. And yeah, you guys are doing great work and it's fantastic to hear that it's growing.

People should go.

Check that out for sure. Yeah, how are you doing otherwise? You playing anything right now? You keeping up with all the, you know, the deluge of the game releases?

Oh yeah, absolutely. I just finished Control Resident the other day. Um, and I also, uh, just put up my review of, uh, forever ago, um, forever ago was, or both of these games, my favorite SGF and, um, yeah, like, uh, looking forward to seeing people, other people play them. Cause obviously when you play an embargoed game, it's like, you know, you don't know what people are quite thinking yet. Uh, control resident was actually my game of the show. Um, but then when I played through the actual game, I'm not going to lie. I wasn't feeling it. Um, And the reason why is because I just wasn't a big fan of the traversal around the city. They do a lot of nice Spider-Man things, but I just wasn't really in

love with the way you get from point A to point B. That, along with the obtuseness of the story, sort of took me out. And shifting gears with Forever Ago, that's a game where you play a grumpy old man who lost his wife over 50 years.

Right, I'm curious about this one for sure.

Yeah, it dives into themes where everything changes around you, whether it's the various sceneries or the places that you've been at the same time. Like, you know, he was used to having his wife around and all of a sudden he was all alone. So dealing with people is also a funny thing that you go through in that game.

It's just a quick and short four hour experience. Totally love that kind of title. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome stuff.

Yeah, that one I think is out today or tomorrow. So, yeah, I was kind of like, oh, yeah, I remember people talking about this around Summer Game Fest, and it completely left my brain until this week. Now it's like, yeah, listen, when you say four-hour experience at this time of year with all these games coming out, that's when my ears really perk up. I'm like, ooh, I could get through a game here pretty quickly and have something else to talk about instead of, you know, 20 unfinished games the way I am right now.

But, yeah.

Absolutely.

Very cool.

Thank you for that. Let's explain ourselves. We're Giant Bomb. Go to giantbomb.com slash join. Become a premium member if you do. We are going to be supporting independent games media collectively together.

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All right, we have a lot to get into, so let's start the morning mess with a little bit of a correction story.

One of those old chestnuts, Dan Reb.

Xbox isn't going to stream GTA 6 to PC at launch.

There was a little bit of confusion here.

The Verge reported that Microsoft secured launch streaming rights for Grand Theft Auto 6. initially describing the arrangement as exclusive. Xbox Chief Strategy Officer Matthew Ball subsequently denied exclusivity and said the game will not stream to PC. So if you have Game Pass and all that stuff that enables you to stream games to your PC, that's not going to include Grand Theft Auto 6. The Verge has since corrected its report. Xbox streaming access is reported. You are going to be able to stream Grand Theft Auto 6 to an Xbox, but there is not an official list of you know, supported devices or the terms of this deal.

So we don't really know if there's any other caveats or specifics that we need to be aware of. Grand Theft Auto 6 still coming out November 19th for all the platforms it is coming out on. And that's basically just PS5 and Xbox Series X and S. And in the meantime, you know, if people want to play it on PC, maybe it's going to be because it gets hacked open by a bunch of vibe coders or something, which feels inevitable at this point, Dan Reb. But yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't really think about it where it's like, oh, if that was streamable, oh, yeah, that means you could stream it on PC. And it kind of didn't occur to me until this was starting to happen. But yeah, Grand Theft Auto 6 continues to be,

it's like a singular launch, right? All these weird caveats, all this sort of how it's locked down in slightly bizarre ways. It's not bizarre because it's Grand Theft Auto 6 and it was always going to be its own thing, right?

Yep.

Yeah, I mean, I was a bit confused when I first saw the original story. I confused streaming with live streaming. So I was like, wait, you only live stream to one console here. This makes no sense. But yeah, you know, obviously in regards to like, you know, trying to stream something, whether or not you have the game, like that's something you want to do. I know a lot of PC players want to get their hands on this one and like that would have been an avenue, but obviously they shut that down there. But yeah, I don't think this surprises anybody. It's the biggest release of the year. It costs what it costs. And, you know, it's just a matter of like, if you want the game, you got to go get it on the platform that it's on. And,

you know, a lot of people don't have current generation consoles. So we'll see where this goes.

Yeah, you know, that's right. It's like maybe if you have an Xbox one. and you never got an Xbox Series X, are you going to be able to stream to that? I think the assumption right now is probably yes, but again, we don't have the exact verbiage, the exact details. They just said it's not going to stream to PC.

I think at that time, Matthew Ball probably would have corrected and said the same thing about Xbox One if that was the case. But yeah, there are going to be some very limited scenarios in which if you don't have the platforms that can play Grand Theft Auto 6 natively, there are couple of options for you to get that game without having to spend a lot of extra money.

But yeah, it's, you know, I mostly, Dan Reb, find this to be frustrating that Grand Theft Auto 6 and Rockstar and Take-Two throw their weight around in such weird ways. What would it hurt to stream it to PC, it really kind of doesn't make any real difference in the end. I guess the big difference would be, no, they want all those people who want to play it on PC held back for the next time that they launch this game when it's the PC's turn to go around. And they want that demand to be as high as possible.

But that feels incredibly manipulative and feels very, again, frustrating. So When I see stories like this, it's like, yeah, I get that they can do this. I kind of wish they would just relax about it. At the end of the day, it's just Grand Theft Auto 6. Dan, what do you think?

I mean, I definitely echo the frustration, obviously, with it being the biggest year or biggest release of the generation. It's going to cause waves. They go viral with whatever they do. And part of my frustration, not to open a totally different can of worms, is the fact that aside from beating to the sound of their own drum, they're the trendsetters. Everybody copies them because they have their premium version at $ 100. Everybody's going to want to have the game at $ 100 because they're doing the code in the box. Everybody's going to want to do a code in the box. And, you know, that can of worms I'm talking about is I don't really buy digital games unless they're only available on, you know, that medium. But

for the most part, I don't. So this is a game that I'm probably not going to play because I'm not going to buy it. Of course, you know, there's a caveat, you know, maybe a review code shows up, but we don't even know if that's happening. So, yeah, it's a different game to play. And, you know, it's just weird. Like everyone's also shooing it in for, game of the year when obviously like we've seen so many other great releases happening and you know i've heard a lot of people say that all right yeah it's not really my thing i don't know if i'd give it my vote so it makes you wonder if it'll actually run away with it at the end of the year who.

Knows yeah i you know it when it comes to stuff like uh keely's uh that always comes down to uh you know the game has to be very good but it's also the game that's most widely played you kind of multiply those two factors against one another it's not always how it goes but usually it's the most popular and the best game. And when everyone plays Grand Theft Auto six, cause everyone will play it for the most part.

That'll be, it'll give it a strong advantage. Well, I played that and that was really good.

And I, you know, kind of nothing else, you know, play around and play anything else recently. So it'll still get a lot of attention at that time. It's almost a foregone conclusion, but you know, that is what it is.

All right.

Grand Theft Auto six next month. You know, we're five weeks away now. It really kind of is starting to feel a little bit real, although there's so many games coming out that I continue to put it into a little bit of a box and try not to think about it too much because what good is that going to do?

But maybe we'll get it early. Maybe we won't.

Like you said, we have no idea about reviews or anything like that. But they, you know, I guess they are talking to the media quite a bit. They did a cover story with Game Informer.

Thank you.

And it's like, oh, that kind of signals to me that maybe they're going to approach this like a traditional Grand Theft Auto launch where they will cover all of their bases.

So kind of crossed my fingers. I want to play that game.

I want to be able to talk about it in a review capacity in some way on Giant Bomb. So looking forward to seeing what that all ends up looking like.

All right.

Yeah, yeah. Don't mistake what I said for hating. I'm definitely looking forward to trying the game in some capacity. But as for the decisions leading up to what we have now, it's just a little rough, you know?

Yeah, I get it.

And you're not going to be the only person that, like, for a lot of people, part of the ritual of getting a game is getting that disc, putting it on the shelf, and then taking it down and playing it. And if they're going to disrupt that ritual, yeah, there's plenty of other stuff to play right now. The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time is going to be on a card, so people are going to go play that, and they'll be just fine. GameStop is charging $ 1, 400 for a used PS5 Pro. We did talk about this on the Bombcast a little bit, but let's just, like, really...

Get into this. This is from Andy Robinson at VGC. Retailer GameStop has started selling pre-owned PlayStation 5 Pro consoles at a 55% markup compared to new units. On Tuesday, an anonymous Reddit user posted what they claimed was an internal email announcing the significant price hike for used PS5 Pro consoles. No reason was given for the price increase in the alleged email, but it noted that pre-owned consoles will have a higher price than the new console, and this is intentional. Updated listings on the GameStop website have since confirmed the price increase is legitimate. Pre-owned standard PS5 consoles, PS5 Pro consoles I should say, are currently listed for $ 1, 400 compared to the new price of $ 900. According to the

leaked internal email, special edition versions will retail for an even higher $ 1, 500. Currently, GameStop has no stock of new consoles online, so only the far more expensive used versions are available. And I got to say, if they get new versions, Jan said it on the show yesterday, they're just going to open those things and sell them as used.

We basically know they've done that before.

Was it, Chad, was it.

Xenoblade or like some old Xeno game? They did that where those games were selling much higher used. And suddenly they got an influx of pristine looking used copies of those games that were selling at a very high premium price.

Xenoblade and Metroid Prime Trilogy.

Thank you, Panzik Pujarin in chat. Yeah, we know that they have done that before. There's every motivation to do that. Maybe a little unethical, but it's GameStop. So yeah, regardless, I mean, I'm not surprised by the behavior of GameStop here. And I guess I'm not surprised that the price of this system keeps going up. The demand is kind of reaching a point where supply is very low. and demand is higher because Grand Theft Auto 6.

Is coming soon.

We don't know about any improvements for PS5 Pro for Grand Theft Auto 6, but we are all imagining there will be something, and people want to play that game in the best way possible, and this is your one option there, and when that is the case, when that's the scenario, this is your one option, and supply is limited, the price is going to go up, but it also is beginning to set a very scary precedent of, oh man, the PS5 Pro is, you know, the market value of that thing is around $ 1, 400, $ 1, 500. And that's, again, five weeks out from Grand Theft Auto 6. Dan Reb, if we get like one week out, is this thing going to be even higher from GameStop, let alone a Craigslist seller or Facebook marketplace? Are we going to get around

to $ 2, 000? And then where does that set like sort of the Overton window for acceptable prices for a PS6?

What do you think?

Yeah, you know, I hope that we don't. You know, Apple just released, you know, prices for their iPhones, and they're well over $ 2, 000. And unfortunately, if we keep buying these things, they're going to keep raising the prices until, like, there's that stopping point. And with gaming, it's hard to tell where it is. And, you know, I'm glad you brought up Grand Theft Auto, because I think if that game wasn't coming out, you wouldn't see this happening with the PS5 Pros. No. And yeah, like it's just a rough situation. And yeah, if they did it like a week ahead of time, I definitely do see them more expensive.

And it just goes to show that, you know, if you don't want this to happen, you probably shouldn't support the product or the company behind it. And it's funny. We were just in the mall over the weekend and I walked into a GameStop with my girlfriend. And, you know, cool. It's nice seeing all these Funkos and Pokemon cards and.

All this stuff.

And there were a bunch of people in line and I had no idea what they were in line for. And it was for Pokemon pre-orders. So I was like, all right, cool. That's where we're at with this store. But as far as gutting the new copies and selling the mold, I have heard of that happening. I am one of the few that hasn't seen that happen to any of the games I've bought at all when I peruse my GameStop dealings. But yeah, unfortunately, that activity happens.

And even if they're called out, I don't think they're going to do anything about it.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

This is kind of a call to chat a little bit, but we have to assume that if the used sales price is this high, that their trading value for the PS5 Pro must be pretty high, right? So if someone– this is partially obviously it's about selling the PS5 Pro at a much higher price, obviously. the supply and demand issue is just going to dictate that to a certain degree.

But it also could be about, you know, GameStop bulking up their supply so they can have, like they can have a little bit of a monopoly on PS5 Pro availability going into the holiday season. Once Grand Theft Auto 6 is here and Black Friday is here and that they might be the only game in town that really has any sort of stock if they are able to convince, you know, a small portion of the audience to come trade in a PS5 Pro at an all-time high price.

You know, when people see this, I got to imagine the people who have a PS5 Pro for the most part, Dan Reb, want to own it and aren't planning to get rid of it. But if you are and you're like, or you need the money right now, GameStop might be the best option. I guess I haven't turned something in into GameStop in a very long time. Do they still give cash or is it all store credit? I honestly don't know. But do you think there's a chance that they are trying to bulk up their supply for the holiday season?

Yeah, I know they give both options still, but I do know that if you wanted cash, it's going to be less than what you get at store credit. Yeah, real quick, Gene, check in chat. It says it's $ 800 store credit, $ 560 cash trade-in.

So $ 560 is almost what the original price was. It was $ 650, I think, when it launched.

Yeah, that's the strange thing. But yeah, they're definitely bulking up for the holiday season. And one thing that I'll give them positive credit for, you know, I don't know how often you buy games on Black Friday, Jeff, but GameStop has had the best deals. I'm not saying they're going to have the best deal for a PS5 Pro, but they'll probably have it. So there's that. Yep.

It, you know, at the very least, this feels like it'll up their chances of having a few more of those. And then, you know, someone in chat's like, they'll do that. And then they'll have a sale and knock it down to $ 1, 100. And then people will rush in and then buy a whole bunch of other stuff on black Friday.

Uh, yeah.

At this point, this is a, this is a company that has this stuff down to a science, uh, because they've had to, they don't have a lot of other ways to get people into the store.

Except for Pokemon cards. So yeah.

Um, I let's, let's do this question again. I ask it every month and it feels like the number keeps going up and up and up. What do you think the PS six is going to be priced when it comes out?

Uh, yeah, that's a, conversation I don't want to have. Unfortunately, I do think it's going to be, you know, somewhere of upwards of $ 1, 500. You don't want to go over four digits with a console, but with the way things are, it's just rough. I personally want the generation to continue because I see no value as far as exclusives go in current generation consoles, but you know, you guys talked about in the past, like Sony wants you to get the PS six, but, uh, yeah. Uh, especially if they don't play discs, the value there is hardly there for me at all anymore. Yep. Uh, yeah.

People in chat are thrown out 1200, 1400, $ 1, 000, $ 1, 500 is best case scenario for PS six says WP Mayhew.

Uh, yeah.

Um, I think it'll probably be around $ 1, 200, $ 1, 300, but it could easily get up to... They'll have a skew for $ 1, 500 if things keep going the way they have, which I think we have to assume they will.

Yeah. I think mostly it'll depend on when it happens. Right. Balls in their court.

Yes, that'll dictate a lot of it. Meanwhile, Ashley Sharma's town hall happened internally. She had a couple things to say here. Windows Central obtained a transcript of the October 6th internal meeting. Seems like Microsoft knew that would happen. Sharma described Helix as a family of devices, starting with a strong console and extending to portable use. Microsoft will manufacture some products and partner on others. There were no prices, specifications, or launch dates as part of any of this discussion.

That doesn't sound too dissimilar to what is already happening, where they have the Xbox that they manufacture themselves, and then there's the Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally that is manufactured by Asus. So I guess a continuation of that. First of all, I'm like, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to me. I guess my expectation would be maybe there's even more of these partner devices that come into the space. But if Microsoft is still making an Xbox themselves, you know, as part of the Project Helix thing, for the most part, I think this is going to look very similar to what we already have.

What do you think?

Yeah, for the most part, I think this is sort of a non-story. Yes, there's not a lot here. Yeah, they're pretty much just running the course of everything that's happening. Obviously, we've seen the Xbox Series X and S struggle as far as a financial standpoint goes. Of course, that isn't to say that the consoles aren't good. There's a lot of great games on these platforms. It's just a matter of the audience. not being there or just not resonating with the messaging that's happening. And the problem is the messaging is inconsistent. And this is another example of that.

At the same time, you know, Ash is not in a very enviable position with direction of Xbox and Microsoft in general. So yeah, at the end of the day, you hope that they're able to deliver just because the industry is better when all of the big three is competitive.

Yeah, like the other things you said here, I think you mostly nailed it. This is essentially a non-story, but I mean, the thing she did say, engagement hours have stabilized. First party growth has returned following declines. Those declines, I guess this is one where everyone was yelling this for a long time and then there was some debate because Xbox would say different things publicly, but those declines were caused primarily by Game Pass sending Xbox's balance sheet into.

A free fall.

And I guess for years, the people I would talk to internally at Xbox as sources were just like, man, just think about it. Like, look at these, like none of this makes sense. How is this ever going to work? And then, you know, they would come out, Phil Spencer or someone else would come out and be like, no, Game Pass is profitable.

There's no reason for concern.

I'm like, man, they're just, either they're, you know, kind of just go out there and line with their chest or they have some other way of measuring this stuff.

But when I hear it internally, it's like, oh, it's unsustainable.

And eventually this shit's going to, you know, fly into a wall and they're going to have to deal with the ramifications of that. And that's exactly what they're saying now. To me, rectify this uh they do say they're going to have more flexible game pass options which feels like there's a new variation on game pass every month right now um and then they also plan to have a more curated expansion of battle.net and simpler publishing across console and pc which just just means um They're going to make it so when people put a game out on Xbox, the APIs involved with publishing that are either similar or exactly the same to the ones that would happen on PC.

So it's a lot easier for someone who makes a PC game, say, to just release their game on Xbox. That seems to be one of the solutions here to ensure that Xbox has a lot of games still from third parties in the future.

Look, they keep insisting they're in this game.

They are going to keep they're going to make Helix and they have partners that they're working with. And that thing's coming out and they're making first party games and they have exclusives. To me, it doesn't feel like a lot has changed from the mess that Xbox had found itself in. But I don't know what maybe I maybe I'm missing something. What do you think, Dan?

Yeah, again, it's just a matter of messaging. Right. I mean, even going back to the Phil Spencer days, acquiring studios left and right. they were exciting acquisitions. And the one thing that I was always looking for is what's coming. Every year during SGF E3 time, we talk about this being the biggest press conference Xbox is ever going to do.

And for the most part, yeah, the games come out, but nothing really hits the mark that they want to hit. And that's frustrating both from a gamer's perspective and Xbox's perspective because Xbox knows they're working. And at the same time, the players know that games are coming out, but they're just not what they used to be. Uh, it's tough to say like what needs to happen, but I think, uh, at the end of the day, it's like, you got to stick to your guns when it comes to the messaging or what your strategy should be, because a lot of their problems come from when they pivot.

So, yeah.

And I think that's, you know, I think they're in the middle of five different pivots right now. And that's why, uh, you know, I continue to have issues trusting anything that they're saying, especially in something like this, where it feels designed to leak. so that they could continue harping on the same points they've been making. After that, Summer Game Fest showcase, where there were several games from studios they were intending to sell or close. And then I connect that also to making Perfect Dark for years and then giving up on that. All right, let's see here. Halo's reorganization is cutting deep. Let's shift over there. Rebs gaming who covers and like really follows Halo news. It's a YouTube channel reports that no Halo studios employees have transferred

over to Activision. So there was, there was this idea, like we know that it was publicly announced. Halo studios still exist, but it's been cut to the bone and the people remaining there are going to oversee a Halo campaign evolved and a couple other things. And they're going to update that stuff. And that's their job. Halo as a future brand has shifted under Activision under a new studio.

And I think the expectation was, okay, they would take some of the Halo Studios people with them to kind of like start up that studio. And it's like, well, okay, if they bring over the leadership, isn't that the problem? Like a lot of the leadership is something that people wanted to lay blame at and say, hey, the reason Halo is where it is is because a lot of the decisions made by these people. Well, none of those people have come over, but it doesn't sound like anyone has come over.

It's a completely fresh start for Halo.

So it's, I guess one, it's like, all right, they are serious about doing something very different with Halo, but also that means like, God, they are starting from scratch, scratch, scratch. Like this is a real turn the dial back to zero and build it up from there. Does that give you more encouragement about the future of Halo or does that give you more concern?

Yeah, this one's tough for me. I know a lot of people who work at Halo Studios. So, you know, my thoughts are with them as they try to navigate, you know, the unfortunate realm that is unemployment in the video game industry. As for like the game, you know, when you start fresh, especially when it's Halo, especially when you exchange AAA hands, things are going to take a while.

You know, I have no idea what was happening at Halo Studios prior to any of this was going on. So I don't know if like they're going to continue development on what was being done or they're going to start completely new, as you're saying. But the bottom line is it's going to be a while before we see anything.

And the hard part is, you know, we just talked about it. Halo Fest is still happening. Actually, I'll be there. So I am very interested in seeing what happens as well, because, you know, aside from just celebrating the greatness that is Halo, a big part of it is looking forward to the future. And we don't know what that looks like.

They don't know what it looks like yet, I think is the real thing there.

And a lot of skepticism from people who are fans of Halo.

The more we hear, it's like, oh, yeah, there's a possibility this series is just dead.

That they try something for a couple years, and then let's say something goes a little bit sideways with Call of Duty, and it requires all the efforts over there. That studio that was working on Halo, this new Halo, could easily, in an instant, be subsumed completely. into that call of duty machine it's like oh you have to go support the next call of duty for about a year and a half then we'll see we'll reassess halo at that point that to me that's the likeliest scenario here that's the most likely thing to happen here uh the the second most likely scenario and i haven't thought about this all that much this list could be completely stupid everybody but the second most likely scenario that is

coming to me right now dan rub is that they kind of get to a point where it's like, this is a good way to back off of having Call of Duty every year, and they kind of do a Call of Duty, a Call of Duty, then a Halo, and then a Call of Duty, and call of duty and a halo to kind of like mix things up a little bit. But that is going to take some time to get to that point. And again, it's just so like, if like call of duty comes under any threat, that is their number one concern. And halo right now is an afterthought. If they have to focus on call of duty even more, they won't even remember what Halo is.

And it will be thrown into the bin with Crash Bandicoot and any number of Activision things that you're like, wait, where's Tony Hawk? That should be more of an active concern. And they're like, we'll do a couple here or there. But even if a game's really successful in those franchises, we'll kind of like maybe do one more. We'll do a Crash Bandicoot 4. And that Crash Bandicoot collection sold really, really, really well. You got to imagine we could capitalize on that.

And it's just better if we were focused on Call of Duty. And so the future of Halo, I think, is very on shaky ground. It was obviously already on shaky ground, but you knew they were going to make more Halo at Halo Studios. You don't know they're going to make more Halo at Activision. I think that is the position that I would take right now. Does that sound right to you?

I think it sounds right. You know, just speaking from a positive perspective, like if you're ever going to talk about anything regarding Halo or Call of Duty, nobody's going to tell you that the gameplay and gunplay is garbage. Like they've always handled quite well. They are at the top of the game as far as their specific.

Even in Infinite.

Infinite was like felt so, so fun. I really love that game to play that game.

As soon as Activision like, you know, goes ahead and announces whatever they have to announce with Halo, it's definitely going to be something exciting. as far as the franchise not being what it used to be, I have an interesting view on that. Recently, we just finished a few hospital visits with Gamers Outreach at a bunch of hospitals in Seattle, and we had a Halo cosplayer with us.

And he's awesome, by the way. He's a six-foot dude with just amazing 3D-printed cosplay and whatnot. And everybody was so excited to see him. But then one thing that I'll never forget is that some kid was like, oh, look, it's the robot from Minecraft. And I was like, I was next to Halo's community managers and all that. So it was like they had their cringe, too. So it was a it was a funny situation. But like that just goes to show where Master Chief is in the ethos and gaming for kids right now. Right. Not that it's a kid's game, but, you know, Master Chief is somebody everybody should know.

Yes.

Master Chief should be ubiquitous. Exactly.

And I mean, that's that's what happens to all these gaming franchises. You either show up as a character in Minecraft, Fortnite or Smash. And that's what kids know you from.

And that's it.

Exactly.

All right, we're going to take a break.

When we come back, plenty of headlines to get into. If you want to skip out on these ad messages, we give you a way to do that. Giantbomb.com has the ad-free version of the audio and video show.

There, go grab those. We will be right back.

All right, we are back. It's Game Mass Mornings. Dan Reb and Grubb are coming at you with the next story here.

Let's say.

five months after Grand Theft Auto 6 comes out, the people who only play that game for the campaign have finished it and replayed it. And they're kind of looking for something else to play because they just maybe reinvested in gaming because they were so excited about a Grand Theft Auto.

And now they're finally ready to put it down.

Do you think that a Watch Dogs Legion director's cut coming out in the first half of 2027 can capture that excitement in any way?

Because apparently that's what Ubisoft is planning.

Absolutely not, Jeff. You know, wishful thinking. I enjoy my time with Watch Dogs. Watch Dogs 2 is the best one. Legion, I didn't play for too long. But yeah, this just continues Ubisoft's foray into remakes and director's cuts that nobody actually asked for. I'm like, I would just prefer a new entry to the franchise. I'm sure a lot of people would as well. But yeah, this is a weird one.

This was Insider Gaming reporting this exclusively.

Let's see. I'm trying to get to the details here.

Yeah, it's a remake of sorts that serves as a stab at bringing back the game. You know, however reluctantly people were into the first one or into it the first time around. The thing I remember most about it is that there was, like, no main character. You sort of, like, jumped around from character to character and kind of continued, like, as a Geist-like is how I would describe it.

And then.

Right, and then it also had early ray tracing implementation that was pretty good for testing hardware.

So I used it for that quite frequently.

I had somewhat high hopes for that game because I think, was it the Far Cry 2 guy that worked on it, Chad? And I was like, oh, maybe it'll be very systems-based. And I think that's the stuff that actually still is in the game and is promising. And if they can use this director's cut to sort of dial that stuff up To me, there's still a chance that's the kind of thing that can do well on Twitch, on social media, but it's going to be so hard to grab people's attention with a re-release of this game from just a few years ago.

I really, I don't know how that actually works.

And maybe they have some plan to get people's attention, but I think people have already decided, I didn't play Legion then, I'm not going to suddenly change my mind for a Director's Cut in 2027. There's been so many games coming out right now. It doesn't feel like that's going to slow down in the early part of next year.

There's going to be plenty of new games to choose from, let alone people who are going to just keep playing Grand Theft Auto 6, right?

Yeah.

I mean, especially with Grand Theft Auto 6s or just Grand Theft Auto in general, their role playing community, they mean a lot to them. You know, they fundraise a lot. They do a lot of cool things. So, yeah, like Grand Theft Auto is like the perfect example of a game that you just play forever. Um, it, it, it, it tops the sales charts every month, even though you think everyone already has the game. So there's that. And I don't know if, or when a watchdogs has ever done that, even with their best entries, I personally would have preferred to see a director's cut of, um, part two, just because like, I love their iteration of San Francisco, but you know, that's just me talking about my own preferences,

but it's, it's just tough to see where this one lands in the main zeitgeist of gamers these days, especially if it ends up being a $ 70 title.

Yeah. Uh, All right, hang on.

I'm going to check real quick because part of this story is that Watch Dogs 2, its concurrent player numbers have skyrocketed recently on Steam.

Let's see if it's in the top 100 here. Watch Dogs. No, that's not in the top 50.

Watch. Nope.

And then here's, I'm going to round out the top 100 right now. No, it's not there. So it doesn't mean it's not anywhere over 38,000, which of course it wouldn't be. But yeah, I think apparently people have been picking that game up recently and reassessing it, being like, oh, this one really had it going on. Can any of that excitement transfer over to Legion? It just doesn't seem, again, what you described, it's like, I want to go back to two.

That was cool.

Legion's a very different looking game, feeling game. and I don't think it has, uh, the ability to sort of be like, Oh, you are enjoying to come over here and continue that good time. I think people will just keep modding too and doing whatever they want to that.

Right. Yeah. Again, like Legion is a weird cut. Like that one came out like what, in the beginning of this console generation.

Yeah.

Yes. Like 2001 or 2021. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Um, All right, let's keep it going here. Ape Escape at Evening Star now has VGC corroboration. VGC says Jeff Gerstmann's account matches its own sources. Evening Star, the Penny's big breakaway studio founded by Sonic Mania developers, is reportedly working on Ape Escape. Gerstmann says his earlier information described a project that had only recently been greenlighted. There's no announced release window, and Sony hasn't confirmed it.

Yeah, this is all true. This is, yes, this is all accurate.

I was like, when the Ape Escape stuff started getting out there, I was wondering if anyone would mention that it is coming from the Penny's Big Breakaway people, the Sonic Mania studio. And you can always rely on good old Jeff Gerstmann to do that. So, yes, I am excited it's out there because I was never allowed to say it.

But, yeah, apparently it is very early.

And that was very early when I heard about it, so it's still very early because.

That wasn't that long ago. I'm trying to timeline it out here.

So I don't think we see this for several years now, and that seems to be the case with this entire initiative.

Dan Reb, it is an initiative.

It is this idea of, look, we have to go to ground here a little bit. We have to retreat and try a new thrust forward, and one of those attacks is going to look like going back to old franchises like Ape Escape and bringing them back and kind of trading on that nostalgia in a big way. And this won't be the only example of that, but it does feel like one of the more earlier examples of it.

So this was still a year out, years out. The rest of them are probably still a ways off as well. And I guess the question there, the obvious one, is is it going to be too little too late? Because it feels like this stuff would go over real well in this moment when there's a lot of people mad about no disc, no buy, and the prices are going up.

And PS5, you know, there's first party games coming out. Tokon, a great game. Soros, a great game. Wolverine is, you know, mediocre to good to some people. But, you know, three games this year from first party and... Yeah, that's kind of it. If you had three other older sort of throwback games getting updated or getting new sequels, that would go over real well right now when people want to feel like they're getting a lot of value. out of their PS five pro or PS five.

And that's not happening.

So too little too late when this stuff starts popping off in, I guess, let's say the earliest is 2029.

Yeah, it's tough to say that it's too little too late, primarily because I just think it's too little for what Sony is used to. I don't know how long it took Japan Studio to make Astro Bot, which was amazing, and that might have been what really brought back any interest in Ape Escape at all. But yeah, for me, I'm excited. Funny you mentioned the Sonic Mania developers, because I just came back from the Sonic and Live concert over the weekend, and it was amazing. And they had a Sonic Mania medley, and that's my favorite Sonic game.

So I was like, yeah.

It's the best Sonic.

Game, yes. And we're at a point where a lot of mascot platformers are coming back, even when they shouldn't. And Ape Escape is one that should. And I have a lot of big hopes for it. But yeah, if it's going to be years from now, Yeah, it's tough to say that we'll have that same amount of excitement, but at the same time, with everything that Sony has going on with their disc stuff, which I definitely totally agree with on the please bring discs backside, they need every bit of good media they can get.

Yeah, and I do see in chat here, someone's like, yeah, from Feast of Violet, I'd say majority of PS5 owners have never heard of Ape Escape.

It wouldn't play a new one. It's like, yeah, that's probably true.

You know, I think that's on Sony to sort of be like to match up the people who do remember it and then do the job of being like, and here's why people who have not heard of it should get excited. They should have been doing that work this entire time with many of these franchises and having part of their business be in, you know, stoking and nurturing these older franchises because there's a lot of value in these IP. And sometimes that's at high tide and sometimes that's at low tide. But Right now, nostalgia bait is huge.

Right now, if you have a franchise that has any sort of recognition across multiple generations, that has a lot of value in Hollywood for streaming shows or movies. And it's kind of on Sony to do the work better late than never of bringing a lot of these things back so they have more options than just, the genre of game that they found themselves making over and over, which are the big prestige, sad dad games, over the shoulder action stuff. And it's like, yeah, that stuff is, you made those because that's what you train the audience to kind of expect as the big PlayStation prestige game that everyone talked about. And obviously you should have been making those, but that not at the complete sort of

detriment and dearth of variety that like a company like Nintendo was capable of producing. And I think Sony regrets that now, as they've had this failed live service initiative, and they have to sort of figure out a way back into that. And Ape Escape feels like a really good testbed, because I think you're right, that after Astro Bot, there was some interest there, and proof of concept, and people were like, this is still a ton of fun.

If they just kind of made a whole game this way, that would be really great, and they could expand on it in a few ways.

So....

I guess the question is, like, do they stick with this? Do you think that this is something that it will kind of make a permanent part of what of PlayStation's identity going forward?

I don't know if they will, but I absolutely believe that they should. I mean, they kind of did it with that God of War Metroidvania. earlier in the year, right? Which I liked more than most people. And, you know, PlayStation has a lot of valuable and beloved IP that they can just, you know, contract to a bunch of third party or indie studios. And I think they do a great job with it. You know, I just mentioned God of War, but they also did that with Lego Horizon, which I thought was, you know, better than most. And they can easily do that. You know, Nintendo used to do that with Zelda, with Capcom. They made bangers with the Oracle games. And there's no reason why PlayStation shouldn't with their catalogs.

All right, then where is Forza Horizon 6 on PS5 is our next story. Let's kind of just talk about this real quick. Playground had to actually address fans who have been getting frustrated with them about the lack of communication surrounding Forza.

Horizon 6 in general.

They said, Hey, Horizon community, we're reading all your comments about Forza Horizon 6, and we realize that we haven't been talking with you as much as we could be. While we continue to deliver regular content and fixes into the game, we want you to know we hear your feedback about our post-launch updates, and we're looking into future changes to both in-game content and the ways we communicate with you. Stay tuned. My understanding, and I've heard this for a while now, is, yeah, that studio is as busy with Fable as you imagine them to be. They really are all hands on deck, like all hands incredibly busy.

trying to make sure Fable can come out, which is why that moved to February of next year, right? So they didn't tend to that game to kind of be coming out here real soon. And then they were going to buckle down and finish up and make sure that Forza Horizon 6 came out on PS5, let alone got all these other updates and regular release of, you know, the regular cadence of releases of updates for the game on the existing platforms. And that stuff has felt a little slim, but they have not been as communicative as they have been in the past. And now people are like, wait, wasn't Forza Horizon 6 supposed to come to PS5 this year?

Apparently, yes, it's still coming.

Still coming this year, but it's going to have to be when they can look away from Fable for a second.

Because apparently there's just a little bit of work to finish up there.

Yeah, a little bit of a weird situation, but not too unheard of for a company to be extremely busy with their game that is coming out in the next four months, right?

Yeah, not at all. I mean, when you go through the consolidation that Xbox has with their studios, um, you know, if you, if you told me five years ago that Forza and, uh, um, Fable would be under the same umbrella, call you crazy. Uh, but here we are now, um, that being said, no, um, uh, I think Halo campaign Evolve did not do very well on PS5, so I don't see why Xbox would spend resources to really put this out this year, especially with, again, Grand Theft Auto coming out, another game with driving in it. So, you know, maybe just wait a little bit and just focus on making Fable great because by all accounts, it looks great already.

Yeah, people are mentioning there's some reports this morning that Forza Horizon 6 is reportedly going to come to PS5 in January now. January 26th, 2027 is the date going around. Uh, so yeah, I, that also wouldn't surprise me. I mean, we're running out of time. This thing wasn't going to come out in November. So it's like, maybe it comes out in December, but at that point, like that's imagine you're at that studio. What are you going to want to have like in a good space, in a good state, when you take your Christmas break, it is going to be fable. It's going to like, let's make sure that fables in a good spot. So when we come back, we can really just sprint to finish that. And so in those few, uh, in those few first weeks, when

we come back after the holiday, uh, That's, we'll start with Forza and then we'll finish Fable after that. But that would be very stressful if they were working on Forza and Fable was in any sort of mess. And then they had to go take a vacation or whatever. Maybe many people wouldn't be able to. So you can see how like just logically, strategically things end up going this way. So yeah, let's see Forza on PS5 in January.

And that's a game that's going to do very, very well on that platform. All right, last story here. Paramount and Warner Brothers combined their video game divisions after the $ 110 billion Nightmare Skydance merger.

This is from Andy Robinson at VGC.

Paramount and Warner Brothers video game divisions have been combined.

Which will now be known as Skydance.

Let's see, the two Hollywood studio giants officially completed their merger on Tuesday, bringing together CNN, HBO, DC Studios, and more under one roof, along with IPs like Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings, and Batman. Notably, the newly formed Paramount Games Studio will be combined with Warner Bros. Games' internal video game developers, which include Avalanche Software, which made Hogwarts Legacy, NetherRealm Studio, which makes Mortal Kombat, Rocksteady Studios, which makes Batman games, TT Games, which makes the Lego games, and the WB Games teams in Montreal and Boston. Paramount's games offering, which was formed this summer, includes TMNT, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Last Ronin, Avatar

Legends The Fighting Game, and IPs like SpongeBob and Star Trek. It also incorporates Skydance's roster, including the upcoming Marvel 1943.

Rise of Hydra, which I keep forgetting exist.

Paramount Games studio boss Tony Driscoll, who previously worked at Epic Games and Warner Brothers, will take over the merged games operation, reports Variety.

Yeah. You know, let's see.

Warner Brothers has been trying to get rid of its gaming division for a long time, and now there's this newly merged entity. This does seem to be the immediate future for everyone involved here. They will keep operating this way, but you know that this is going to lead to the fantastic term redundancies, where it's like, oh, there are probably publishing operations in both companies, and then at the end of the day, there's going to be one publishing operation, and they'll just chop one of those off completely. And that's just the start, right? They will also probably want to cut costs. What do you think the long-term viability of this massive video gaming outfit under this company is?

Because it was already sort of an unwanted stepchild a little bit.

Yeah, it's hard to say. And I think, like, as gamers, you can really feel that, right? Like, aside from, you know, maybe Mortal combat and hogwarts legacy it's hard to really name a wb game like at least for me and you know it's just tough sledding moving forward i will say though like this um this portfolio looks amazing i am really excited for tmnt uh avatar legend is good starbucks games are oh it's not starbucks the spongebob games are uh are are actually great um So yeah, there's a reason to be hopeful with what's coming in the future, but obviously we also have to look at the now.

You mentioned the redundancies. That's more than likely going to happen. They're also going to talk about people possibly moving studios, and as somebody who has had a studio closed, that doesn't happen as often as you think. So yeah, it's just tough. I don't know what to think about the value proposition of these publishers in the future but i will say that a lot of these seem to be the b games that we all want to be the lifeblood of the industry and as long as their shareholders are happy with that which uh is debatable um it's it's tough to see them really moving forward there but you know i want.

To be hopeful yeah i i right i think when we kind of look at it if you kind of like if we dumb ourselves down and behave like investors right now, none of this stuff screams buzzwords.

None of it screams AI in any way. And it just, it's.

Going to look like a chain around the neck of a company that we're like, Hey, what if it invested in AI and the games are just not going to have that obvious solution there for them. So yeah, I think that this is going to be an afterthought at best. Someone pointed out like when Netflix was in talks to buy Warner brothers and I think someone asked like, okay.

And like, what about the games division? And Netflix is like, basically that's, you know, it has zero value. And it's like, Oh Jesus Christ. They just said it. And yeah, you hope that that does not kind of carry over here. There's too much, you know, there's too much involved. There's too much money tied up in a lot of this stuff for them to like, just completely wipe it away.

They're going to want to get some return.

And that might mean releasing a lot of games, but it also might mean that they'll find somewhere to spend these things off to. The problem is trying to sell these studios, and this was always the issue that Warner Brothers was running into when they were trying to sell these studios, was we're going to sell Rocksteady to somebody without the Batman license. And it's like then the value truly is zero because you're just getting a lot of costs with almost none of the benefit. And then you have to go license that thing from them. And obviously some deal could include the license for so long. but that would increase the cost and just be a liability.

And that's what this thing is kind of across the board. It's a liability.

And that's very frustrating to see, especially as you pointed out so many cool games in this, in this list.

I hope, you know, nether realms injustice is very good.

You mentioned forgetting Marvel in 1943. Like I am so excited for that game, but also like, I'm going to believe it when I see it, like actually have it in my hand. Yeah. Who knows?

Who knows?

Exactly.

All right, updates for this week.

Let's see, today, did you guys know, I was wondering why people were talking about playing Star Wars Galactic Racer on Amazon Luna. I didn't realize, it's like, oh, if you have Amazon Prime, you could just go play the campaign at no additional cost.

That's wild.

I didn't realize that. People should go do that. I booted it up and.

Works really well. So if you have Prime... Just go boot up Luna right now. Your controller will work. Although I do have an Amazon Luna controller, which is an unhinged thing to own. I admit that. But here I am. This is just the life I've chosen. I didn't plug that in.

I just used a regular controller. And it worked really well. A lot of people, I think, were doing exactly that. So if you are looking to save some money, my guess is you probably have Prime in some way. Most American households apparently do. take advantage of that. Go play that campaign. That game's going to do really well no matter what. And as always, people buy the game, support the devs. That's not your responsibility. That's just not your responsibility.

You do what's best for your pocketbook. You already have this game. It's just the campaign, no multiplayer. And it doesn't seem like you can upgrade the game to get the multiplayer on Luna. I looked a little bit. I couldn't really tell. It's a little bit weird. But take advantage of that.

That's pretty cool. All right. How's the lead going through Luna? I didn't notice it. You know, but I'm sure everyone's situation is going to vary. Yeah.

Then tomorrow, Clive Barker's Hellraiser Revival launches. Very curious about that one. We might have some stuff about that on the site.

All right.

That does it for all of the headlines. Let's get to the poll question from Monday. And that means I got to bring this up over here and go to the Giant Bomb post tab here on YouTube. I'm refreshing to get the most update results. have you played runescape? Yes or no. Are your options? Uh, 38% said yes.

62% said no. That is that one where I was like, I assumed like everyone in a certain age range is a yes. And everyone outside of that is mostly a no. How about you, Dan Reb? You ever play a, you ever spent any time in runescape?

Heard of it, but never, never played it at all.

Yeah.

That's I'm not, not surprised.

Uh, But, you know, 38 percent, that's still a pretty big number, although I think I was maybe expecting it to be even a little bit higher.

All right.

That's the poll question from Monday. Like I said, we'll have a new poll question we'll get to here in a second. Before we do that, Dan Reb, one more time, tell people where they can find you on the Internet, what you have going on, all that good stuff.

Yeah, you can find me on the socials, particularly Blue Sky and Instagram with my first name, Dan Reb. On Blue Sky, it's mostly video game stuff. My Instagram is personal, so you'll see a lot of my actual life there. I'm a huge Green Bay Packers fan, so there's that. I do want to go ahead and plug Gamers Outreach again. Again, we're a non-profit that brings video games to kids in hospitals. Actually, next week, we're starting our Spooktacular Streamathon. So if anybody in the community is interested in doing a charity stream to help us out, That would be fantastic. There is no obligation as far as goals or times to stream.

We'll gladly take whatever time you can give us. What matters to us is just getting the word out there and bringing more consoles to more hospitals. And then, of course, smashpad.com, our main site. I've had a bunch of our staff be guests on GMM before, so glad to continue to help develop talent. If you're somebody who wants to get involved in the industry as a writer, I can help you out. Just go ahead and hit me up.

Yeah, that's always what I kind of recommend from people is, hey, how do I get in the industry?

How can I do right?

And you just got to find places like that, like Smashpad, and just go make it happen there and kind of get some reps under your wings and go from there.

All right.

Excellent.

New poll question. Have you ever used Amazon Luna? And I think that number is going to change here in a little bit. I saw a lot of excitement from people like, oh, I can go play this game now. Yeah, save some money, everybody. Yes or no, your options.

We'll get the results.

Talk about it on the show tomorrow. here on Giant Bomb. Speaking of Giant Bomb, check this calendar.

Alert, alert, alert, everybody. Pay attention real quick. Lock in.

There is a new episode of Blight Club today for a new season of Blight Club. That's right. Cyber Dillo is done. You no longer have to look at it, which I just don't want to hear that. I had to play it. And all you are whining, oh, I hate looking at this game.

Shut up. You shut up.

It's over anyhow, so we can just shut up about Cyber Dello in general. More importantly, again, lock in half an hour early. We're starting at 1.30 Eastern time. That's 12.30 Central time. That is 10.30 a.m. Pacific time, Ben, I think. Hey, show up, watch it, but it's a little bit early.

So don't be like, oh, my God, I missed the show. If you were watching Game Mess Mornings, you would have known.

We put it out everywhere else that we're starting early. But we're starting early, and you're not going to want to miss it because it's the costume reveal for Mike Minotti's new season of Blight Club.

He's going to look so cool. So tune in for that, everybody. Today, I am so excited. Oh, my God. I'm not playing Cyber Dillo anymore. It's the best. Let's see.

Tomorrow, we're going to be talking over the Triple I Showcase right after GMM, and then we have Voicemail Dump Truck, and then we have Big Walk.

That's a busy day, but I'm looking forward to all of it. I got to be honest.

And then Friday, we'll have some cool stuff happening, as always, on UPF. Probably a little bit of Deadlock, a little bit of Star Wars Galactic Racer.

So it's a cool week.

And then, obviously, tons of stuff happening on GiantBomb.com, including reviews will be going up. We're going to have some quick looks going up.

Keep an eye out for all of that. All right. I think we have covered everything.

Dan Reb, Victorio, thank you so much for hanging out with me, talking about video games, man.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you. I don't think we can do it again.

We will make this happen again for sure. Thank you all for watching and listening. You are the best audience in gaming. Until next time, have a good one. Take care of yourself and goodbye.

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