88. Sober Doesn't Mean Safe

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Helping Couples Hill podcast, a place for healing and hope for couples impacted by betrayal, resulting from infidelity and or sex addiction. [SPEAKER_00]: Your host is Marny Breaker, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified sex addiction therapist and founder of the Center for Relational Healing in Los Angeles and San Diego, California.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Helping Couples Hill podcast was launched in twenty twenty one, with the intention of bringing hope to couples all over the world, who are desperately trying to recover from the devastating impact of betrayal. [SPEAKER_00]: Realizing how many people the podcast was reaching, and that we could offer even more support to our listeners, Marne co-founded Helping Couples Hill, which has since grown into a global online coaching organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is the foundation of all the work that we do at helping couples heal. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: Marny brings over a decade of experience and expertise in the field of betrayal trauma and is honored to support you wherever you may be in your healing.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you've lost hope, you've come to the right place. [SPEAKER_00]: Now take a slow deep breath and let's begin with helping couples heal podcasts. [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Helping Couples Hill podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: It's morning and I am actually on vacation out of the country and I was not planning on recording a podcast episode, but I had an interesting experience, which is that I decided to bring a book on the vacation, not a self-help book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to read something that was not about [SPEAKER_01]: sex addiction or betrayal or anything heavy or anything about trauma so a friend recommended a book it's a fiction book and it seemed like it would be an easy and light read perfect for a day at the pool or at the beach so I [SPEAKER_01]: settled into my lounge chair on the first day of my vacation to read and this book, in fact, is not light reading.

[SPEAKER_01]: It turns out that it's about a family who's going on vacation together shortly after the discovery of one of the parents in fidelity. [SPEAKER_01]: So this made me think of all of you and again, how rampant betrayal is and how much suffering there is. [SPEAKER_01]: So I came down to my room, decided to record an episode and here we are.

[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, I'm going to unpack a critical truth in the betrayal healing process. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is that sexual sobriety is not the same as relational healing. [SPEAKER_01]: I have said this before in many different ways, but I'm going to really focus today's episode specifically on this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just because the acting out has stopped does not mean that the relationship is safe or is healing. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, ongoing lies, minimization of the trauma caused, emotional volatility, refusal to seek help and threats to leave. [SPEAKER_01]: The relationship can traumatize or retraumatize, I should say, a betrayed partner, even in the absence of any new sexual behavior.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the first point I want to make is that sobriety is a starting point. [SPEAKER_01]: It is not the finish line by any means. [SPEAKER_01]: So simply stopping problematic sexual behavior does not address the underlying relational damage caused by betrayal. [SPEAKER_01]: I like to say it's a prerequisite.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to have a relationship heal from betrayal if they're still ongoing sexual acting out. [SPEAKER_01]: That is true. [SPEAKER_01]: But alone, the sexual sobriety is not going to do the deep healing that it needs to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Relational healing requires emotional sobriety that requires the capacity to tolerate uncomfortable emotions without blame or avoidance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's hard to do for somebody who is filled with shame. [SPEAKER_01]: So being able to tolerate uncomfortable emotions is also really hard for addicts and many of the people that listen to this podcast identify as sex addicts. [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand that you might be listening and thinking, oh my God, well, [SPEAKER_01]: If I need to have the capacity to tolerate uncomfortable emotions, that's going to be really hard because one of the reasons that I've acted out to begin with is because I can't tolerate uncomfortable emotions.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is going to be challenging, but it's something that you're going to have to really dig deep into to try to work on because trust is not rebuilt by abstinence. [SPEAKER_01]: A betrayed partner needs emotional safety, not just the behavioral changes that comes from stopping the acting out behavior.

[SPEAKER_01]: a major problem that happens even after sobriety occurs and you guys I'm sure are very familiar with me talking about this, but emotional abuse or integrity abuse often continues. [SPEAKER_01]: even after there's been sometimes longstanding sobriety. [SPEAKER_01]: Manipulation, gaslighting, threats of divorce, stonewalling, or emotional volatility are all forms of abuse that can continue even after sexual acting outstops.

[SPEAKER_01]: Many of my listeners I know are very familiar with Dr. Minwala's work and many have actually attended one of his courses and you might be familiar with the three phases of integrity abuse. [SPEAKER_01]: The third phase is called the symptom progression phase and that's what I'm referring to here where there's already been a discovery and there's been this exposure of the betrayal [SPEAKER_01]: And there's often sexual sobriety, and yet in the symptom progression phase will often see ongoing emotional abuse like the things that I just mentioned.

[SPEAKER_01]: And ongoing integrity abuse erodes relational recovery, and there's really no way around that. [SPEAKER_01]: So even if the person is sober, continuing to lie with hold or minimize, keeps the partner in a state of uncertainty and trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: And even little lies that seem very insignificant to you can cause serious ruptures.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do not have to be perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: None of us are. [SPEAKER_01]: If we are human, we are imperfect. [SPEAKER_01]: But the truth is you do have to be as close to perfect as humanly possible. [SPEAKER_01]: And when there's ongoing integrity abuse, for instance, denying selective memory, getting angry and refusing to answer your partner's questions again that you've answered before, maybe many, many times before, continuing to be in relationships or friendships with people who knew about and supported your lives and your secret life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those things are retraumatizing for your partner. [SPEAKER_01]: Statements like it wasn't that bad or at least I'm not doing it anymore or saying I went to a meeting the other day and after listening to those stories and made me feel like my own story is really benign in comparison. [SPEAKER_01]: So think about the impact that all of this can have on the person who needs basically the four things from you that you are refusing to provide empathy, accountability, transparency and humility.

[SPEAKER_01]: Something that I see often in the recovery process or of relational healing is when one of the partners, the partner who caused the rupture, the one who's betrayed, refuses to participate in treatment or leaves treatment, threatens to leave treatment, any of those things. [SPEAKER_01]: And that really signals to the betrayed partner unwillingness to grow, change, or make restitution for the harm that's been caused.

[SPEAKER_01]: If the betraying partner will not engage in therapy or coaching or groups or any kind of structured support, it does two things. [SPEAKER_01]: It places the burden of healing solely on the betrayed partner. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not going to be sustainable. [SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing it does is it also sends a very clear message to the partner.

[SPEAKER_01]: If the partner's working harder than the one who's caused all of this, that's going to send a pretty clear message that healing or prioritizing the relationship and prioritizing the partner's needs [SPEAKER_01]: is not important or that the partner does not matter. [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing that I see a lot is from frustrated betrayers who are having trouble handling the pain or the anger of the betrayed partner, making threats to leave or making threats to divorce, specifically divorce, divorce, leave, walk away, any of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And healing cannot happen when safety is constantly under threat. [SPEAKER_01]: So a betrayed partner who already feels unsafe [SPEAKER_01]: is going to feel further unsafe when the person that has made them feel unsafe is now threatening to leave and to disengage and to walk away. [SPEAKER_01]: Trust, deep trust takes a very long time to develop.

[SPEAKER_01]: It may be initially given easily, like when you first meet somebody and get in a relationship, but the reality is that it grows and develops into something very different over time and as you create a life in a history with someone. [SPEAKER_01]: And what the trail happens, it destroys that trust.

[SPEAKER_01]: It destroys the foundation in an instant. [SPEAKER_01]: And it takes a long time to rebuild that level of trust. [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to say this, and I hope everyone hears it. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who expects it to be quick is very misguided. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who thinks that healing will be easy is wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: It took one minute to destroy trust and to shadow your relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's important that you need to understand why rebuilding and healing is not linear, fast, or simple. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I say that a lot in this podcast, but I haven't actually devoted an entire episode to talking about why betrayal takes so long to heal even when there's been a long period of sexual sobriety.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you fail to hold space for your partner's pain, when you leave either literally or figuratively, when you dismiss or invalidate your partner, this will only exacerbate the relational trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: Repair requires consistent, compassionate engagement and participation. [SPEAKER_01]: It requires your presence and that doesn't mean that you're physically just there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It means that you are really there, that you are showing up, that you are interested in what your partner has to say, that you're willing to stay even if it gets hard, that you're willing to tolerate the discomfort. [SPEAKER_01]: It means listening to your partner's pain and taking responsibility without being defensive and showing up and answering questions and not just once, but over and over for as long as it takes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also want to say that even when there's no integrity abuse and there's also sexual sobriety, a betrayed partner may still be angry and hurt. [SPEAKER_01]: And a relationship might still be in a state of trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: And I get this question a lot, often from both the betrayed partner and those who have betrayed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's what I have to say about that. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a betrayed partner and you're asking why you're having a such a hard time healing or moving on or forgiving or getting past the hurt, the answer is actually very simple. [SPEAKER_01]: It's trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: Trauma does not just go away because someone is no longer hurting you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Healing is about repairing the damage that has already been done, and you can't undo it, unfortunately. [SPEAKER_01]: That would be great. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like an injury or a wound after you get into a serious accident. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't just heal, and even months or years later, when you can hardly see any evidence, any physical evidence of the injury, and maybe you can only see a very faint scar when the lighting hits it a certain way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean that it still doesn't hurt, and that doesn't mean that it's still not there. [SPEAKER_01]: Trauma takes time to heal. [SPEAKER_01]: There's absolutely no way around that. [SPEAKER_01]: The only way around is through. [SPEAKER_01]: And true healing involves rebuilding the foundation of the relationship, not just removing the acting out behavior or the wreckage.

[SPEAKER_01]: Without addressing relational dynamics, the trauma that was caused from the betrayal, communication patterns, and emotional intimacy, the relationship will remain fragile, regardless of whether there's sexual sobriety in place. [SPEAKER_01]: And often the relationship will not heal, or certainly will fail to thrive.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you are listening and feeling unseen or invalidated in your healing journey because your partner is sober, but the lies, the emotional withdrawal, or power struggles even still present, I want you to hear this, you are not crazy and you are not asking for too much. [SPEAKER_01]: Subriety is just one piece of a much larger puzzle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Healing relationship after betrayal requires a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: It requires truth-telling, emotional safety, and a real demonstrated willingness to do the work consistently and with humility. [SPEAKER_01]: If today's episode resonated, please share it with someone who might need to hear this message.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're looking for more support, resources, or community as you move through your own healing, please visit helpingcouplesheal.com to learn more about our programs. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much as always for listening. [SPEAKER_01]: I see you, I honor your truth, and I am so glad that you're here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, please take good care. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the helping couples heel podcast where you're healing as our number one priority. [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like additional resources about betrayal trauma or to learn more about our coaching services, please visit helpingcouplesheel.com or call five six two three seven nine four three two five.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our help is available worldwide. [SPEAKER_00]: Please support helping couples heal and continuing to reach others impacted by betrayal trauma by leaving them review on iTunes and sharing this podcast with someone you care about. [SPEAKER_00]: For additional support, follow us on Instagram and consider joining our helping couples heal private Facebook community.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't an easy journey, but you don't have to do it alone. [SPEAKER_00]: Once again, thank you for listening.

88. Sober Doesn't Mean Safe

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