95. The Ten Core Wounds of Betrayal

0:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, a place for healing and hope for couples impacted by betrayal, resulting from infidelity and or sex addiction. [SPEAKER_01]: Your host is Marnie Breaker, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified sex addiction therapist, and founder of the Center for Relational Healing in Los Angeles and San Diego, California.

0:29 [SPEAKER_01]: The helping couples heel podcasts was launched in 2021, with the intention of bringing hope to couples all over the world, who are desperately trying to recover from the devastating impact of betrayal. [SPEAKER_01]: Realizing how many people the podcast was reaching, and that we could offer even more support to our listeners.

0:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Marni Co-founded Helping Couples Hule, which has since grown into a global online coaching organization. [SPEAKER_01]: This podcast is a foundation of all the work that we do at Helping Couples Hule. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening. [SPEAKER_01]: Marni brings over a decade of experience and expertise in the field of betrayal trauma and is honored to support you wherever you may be in your healing.

1:09 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've lost hope, you've come to the right place. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, they can slow deep breath and let's begin with the helping couples here podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: Hello everyone, welcome back to the Helping Couples Hill podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: It's Marty and I am so glad that you're here with me today, wherever you are, whether you're walking or driving or sitting with a cup of tea or a cup of coffee, just pause for a moment and take a breath with me.

1:43 [SPEAKER_00]: A slow inhale and an easy exhale. [SPEAKER_00]: Today, we're going to be talking about something that touches nearly every betrayed partner and probably every couple working through relational trauma. [SPEAKER_00]: And that topic is the core wounds that portrayal activates. [SPEAKER_00]: These wounds are not character flaws, and they are not personal failures.

2:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's important to say that because when we even use the word wound, I think often for people, [SPEAKER_00]: especially people that struggle with feelings aroundworthiness, look at a wound as being a personal failure, but that's not the case at all. [SPEAKER_00]: What they are are normal, predictable, emotional injuries that form when someone that you trusted breaks the bond of safety and honesty that you believed that you had in your relationship, and that you depended on.

2:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we can name our wounds, [SPEAKER_00]: then we can learn to understand our reactions. [SPEAKER_00]: And when we understand our reactions, then we can bring compassion into the places where shame used to sit. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why today I wanted to talk about this and why I'm going to walk you through the 10 major core wounds of betrayal.

2:58 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about what each one is and how they tend to show up. [SPEAKER_00]: and why they make sense and again understanding them, making sense of them can then help you look at and understand your own reaction and then have compassion. [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into the 10 different core wounds, let's just talk about what is a core wound.

3:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Many of you have been in or are currently in therapy or in some kind of therapeutic program or group and likely have heard this already [SPEAKER_00]: A core wound is a deep emotional injury that shapes ultimately how you think and feel and relate after trust has been broken. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's the part of you that whispers to you, this must mean something about me.

3:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Or I'll never be safe again, or how did I not see this? [SPEAKER_00]: These wounds are what we call survival responses, which are your nervous system's way of trying to protect you when the world suddenly stops feeling safe. [SPEAKER_00]: And what we've learned about portrayal is that oftentimes discovery happens really fast and it's very abrupt.

4:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea of the world's stopping feeling safe is something that happens not gradually but usually very, very fast. [SPEAKER_00]: And that can throw us off balance very, very quickly. [SPEAKER_00]: And here's what's most important to know. [SPEAKER_00]: Your wounds are not evidence that you are broken.

4:17 [SPEAKER_00]: What they are is evidence that you were hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so let's see that again, your wounds are not evidence that you're broken. [SPEAKER_00]: They are evidence that you were hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: So now let's walk through these 10 core wounds of betrayal together. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, I'm going to share each wound, what it means, how it shows up, and then I'm going to offer a gentle reminder that might help you heal that particular wound over time.

4:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first wound is the wordiness wound and the core belief around this wound is I'm not enough. [SPEAKER_00]: And betrayal often gets internalized as proof of personal inadequacy even though it is never about your worth. [SPEAKER_00]: So how this might show up would be in comparison, comparing oneself to others, self-blame, [SPEAKER_00]: wondering how you are personally responsible, and feeling rejected or invisible, or, and this is the one I hear the most when I work with the trade partners is this feeling of not being chosen.

5:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the reminder that I want to offer here, the gentle reminder that is worth you repeating every single day to yourself, is that your worth is untouched by someone else's choices. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you really take that in and internalize that, what that means is that regardless of what your partner did, regardless of your partner's behavior and the deception, the deceit, the betrayal.

5:46 [SPEAKER_00]: your worth is untouched by that. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's move to the second wound, which is the safety wound. [SPEAKER_00]: And the core belief here is I'm not safe in my own relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: The place that was supposed to be your secure base suddenly becomes unsafe or the source of threat.

6:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And so instead of now being able to go to the safe place, go to the place where you always were able to go when you were in distress, [SPEAKER_00]: So how the safety wound might show up is through hypervigilins, so this is the experience of being on guard or on high alert all the time, constantly scanning for danger, and ultimately living in a state of threat, which is an awful way to live one's life.

6:34 [SPEAKER_00]: anxiety, high startle responses, and emotional guarding. [SPEAKER_00]: Those are always that the safety wound might show up, and the reminder here, in terms of trying to help you heal over time, is your body is trying to protect you, not punish you. [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound is the reality wound.

6:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The core belief here is I can't trust my own perception. [SPEAKER_00]: And so sadly, this is one of the biggest consequences that betrayed partners experience after betrayal is that they have been gas lit for so long and have been made to believe a reality that wasn't really their reality that [SPEAKER_00]: It really damages their internal compass.

7:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It shakes the internal compass. [SPEAKER_00]: The good news about this is that even though it's shaken, it can be shaken back and you can land and find safe ground again. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really important to know because I think what happens often is when our reality is stirred up or shaken and we realize that what we thought was true is not true.

7:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We can feel as though we are never going to be able to get back to our sense of safety, our sense of normalcy, our sense of what our reality actually was. [SPEAKER_00]: And so how it shows up, this wound is in second guessing yourself, feeling crazy or confused. [SPEAKER_00]: and that perpetual feeling of just not knowing what was real or not believing what was real.

7:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reality wound again is one of the biggest wounds that I see when I'm looking at the trade partners and what they are struggling with because for a really long time they thought they were living in a specific kind of a world with a specific kind of reality. [SPEAKER_00]: And when discovery occurs there is this huge sort of [SPEAKER_00]: And now trying to make sense of the fact that there is an entirely new truth that doesn't make any sense that doesn't fit what you knew to be true before it doesn't fit what you thought your history was.

8:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it can sort of shake the ground that you walk on and the good news here to remember is that while your internal compass has gotten shaken up, you can get yourself back onto even ground and you can find your footing again. [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound I want to talk about is the control wound.

8:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And the core belief here is if I don't manage everything, I'm going to be blindsided again. [SPEAKER_00]: So after betrayal, the nervous system tries to prevent future harm by tightening its grip and how that manifests is with control. [SPEAKER_00]: And how it shows up would be monitoring your surroundings all the time over checking things, you know, we hear this term becoming a police man or becoming a detective.

9:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We might see some of those behaviors here with the control wound because it's a desperate attempt to try to stay safe, right, try to prevent being harmed again. [SPEAKER_00]: will also see difficulty with relaxing and difficulty calming down and the need to seek constant reassurance. [SPEAKER_00]: With couples that are trying to heal after betrayal, this last one needing constant reassurance can be a real source of frustration by the person who's caused the betrayal because often they'll say well I keep offering reassurance and I've [SPEAKER_00]: done the disclosure and I've bared my soul and I've said everything and I've even had a polygraph where I've had several polygraphs and my partner is still wanting reassurance and so I think it's really important to acknowledge right here that that needing constant reassurance is not a choice or a desire that a betrayed partner has.

10:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a biological response. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a nervous system response [SPEAKER_00]: Find safety again and again often times as human beings and it's usually a perception It's not even necessarily true, but we feel like we can be in control when we're able to manage everything And so this constantly needing reassurance is just one of the sad consequences again of being betrayed And it's really important for all betrayers out there to recognize this and [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even be reactive, be proactive.

10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe don't even wait. [SPEAKER_00]: After hearing this, maybe you'll have this new found aha or new found awareness that instead of waiting for your partner to come to you seeking reassurance, you can actually make a point out of providing constant reassurance in various ways each day.

11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And so for those struggling with the control wound, the compassionate reminder I want to give you [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound I want to talk about is the Belonging wound. [SPEAKER_00]: And the core belief here with the Belonging wound is I'm alone in this. [SPEAKER_00]: The trail creates profound isolation, both internally and relationally.

11:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot tell you how many clients that I have worked with and work with currently who haven't told anybody about the betrayal. [SPEAKER_00]: for all sorts of reasons. [SPEAKER_00]: People have very, very different reasons for keeping that a secret. [SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, it makes other people feel.

11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes partners feel like not only was I lied to, and I, that this big secret was kept for me, but now that it's happened, and I know about it, I now have inherited this big secret, and I'm now keeping a secret from other people. [SPEAKER_00]: Shame can show up, which can be very, very, very isolating, because when you feel shameful, the last thing you want to do is go and talk to somebody and share what is making you feel shameful.

12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how the belonging wound might show up is pulling away from relationships, isolating with drawing lots of shame, the fear of burdening others. [SPEAKER_00]: and also feeling like nobody could possibly understand. [SPEAKER_00]: And when we feel like nobody can understand, we are automatically taking our self away and preventing ourselves from getting the help and support that we need so badly.

12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's often, again, not even true, because oftentimes people can understand if you let them. [SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody, and there are certainly safe spaces that you can seek [SPEAKER_00]: So your compassion reminder for this wound, for the belonging wound, is you are not alone. [SPEAKER_00]: Your pain is understandable and it's shared by many.

12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you do not feel that there are people currently in your life who can understand. [SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, there are places you can go in the healing space in the recovery community where other people understand and share your pain and your experience and you will not be alone.

13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound is the burden wound. [SPEAKER_00]: The core belief here is I have to hold everything together. [SPEAKER_00]: If I don't hold it together, it's all going to fall apart. [SPEAKER_00]: Many betrayed partners feel responsible for the emotional weight and the relationship, especially after betrayal when oftentimes the focus is put on the one who's caused the betrayal, getting that person the help that they need.

13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: helping them to manage either their addiction or this problem, so that often leaves the partner feeling responsible for taking care of everything, including, often finding, the person who has caused this, the proper health and treatment. [SPEAKER_00]: And sadly, what that often results in is the partner not getting, at least at the beginning, the kind of health and support that they need.

14:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So the way that the burden wound can often show up is with over-functioning, emotional caretaking, complete exhaustion, both emotionally and physically, and the difficulty in asking for help. [SPEAKER_00]: Because when somebody feels like the burden is on their shoulders and they're the ones responsible, it's going to be difficult for them to then go out and try to delegate to others or ask other [SPEAKER_00]: and feeling like, if I don't do it personally, it's all going to fall apart.

14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the compassion reminder here, and I really, really want you to hear this, if you carry the burden wound, is you should never have had to carry this alone. [SPEAKER_00]: You should have never had to carry this alone, and you don't need to carry it alone now. [SPEAKER_00]: Something else I want to say about the burden wound that I think is very important, is that many people experience the burden wound from a young age.

15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So having had certain kind of family systems or family boards and trauma, many people can grow up with a burden wound. [SPEAKER_00]: But not everybody does. [SPEAKER_00]: Often times, the burden wound can happen to somebody who never carried this before, but after betrayal, now feels responsible for the emotional weight in the relationship.

15:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it can show up in many ways, it can show up for somebody who's never had it before, after betrayal, it can show up again in betrayal for someone who carried a burden wound for a long time and then did some really wonderful work and healing around that to let it go and then here it comes back again.

15:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, really important to just bring a lot of compassion here and to bring this reminder forward at all times which is you do not have to carry this alone and you never should have had to carry this alone. [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound, and this is one of the most profoundly painful experiences a human being can have and that's the abandonment wound and the core belief under this wound is you will leave or you will choose someone else and I'm going to be alone.

16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You will leave me. [SPEAKER_00]: and betrayal almost always activates deep attachment fears, deep fears of abandonment. [SPEAKER_00]: So this one shows up in clinging two people or going the opposite and distancing ourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: We're so afraid we're going to be left again that we're not going to allow that to happen.

16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to leave before you leave us. [SPEAKER_00]: Or the pain of you leaving is so horrendous. [SPEAKER_00]: I am going to cling to you with desperation and not let you go because I am [SPEAKER_00]: Another way the abandonment wound shows up is with sensitivity to rejection, and also the fear of being replaced.

16:48 [SPEAKER_00]: That can become a real source of remination and fear. [SPEAKER_00]: And the compassion I'm under here is, of course you are afraid. [SPEAKER_00]: The foundation that you lived in was shaken to its core. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything you thought that was true, all of the dependability [SPEAKER_00]: was shaken and taken away from you.

17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So it makes sense that you feel abandoned. [SPEAKER_00]: The next one is the inadequacy wound. [SPEAKER_00]: The inadequacy wound is all about the core belief of I'm not as good as what I was betrayed with. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm not as good as what I was betrayed with. [SPEAKER_00]: So here, comparison becomes a way to try to understand the betrayal for so many betrayed partners.

17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is just so heartbreaking. [SPEAKER_00]: They feel as though because of some kind of fault with them, something that they didn't do well enough or they didn't do enough of. [SPEAKER_00]: made them replaceable. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, whether it was another person or whether it was an AI bot or whether it was pornography that something was better than me, that I wasn't enough and so you replaced me with something that was better.

18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And how this might show up is with body-shaming, very harsh self-criticism, and trying to be better. [SPEAKER_00]: or act better to feel safe, and that can show up in relationships after betrayal. [SPEAKER_00]: One of the really, really sad ways that can show up is partner sometimes especially early on might try to sexually be better, and so they might find themselves even acting out sexually becoming hypersexual, or doing things sexually that discussed them, but because they want to be better for their partner, and ultimately if they can be better, then they can prevent the abandonment, [SPEAKER_00]: And then they can feel safe again.

18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the compassion reminder here is you were never in a competition. [SPEAKER_00]: You were never meant to be in a competition. [SPEAKER_00]: You were in a relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: You were in a relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was never your responsibility to try to prove that you're as good as anybody else.

19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You were meant to be you. [SPEAKER_00]: You were never meant to be competing with anybody else. [SPEAKER_00]: The next wound is the powerlessness wound. [SPEAKER_00]: And the core belief here underlying this is I didn't have a choice. [SPEAKER_00]: The trail happens without your awareness or your consent.

19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You were denied information that was necessary for you to have in order to make informed decisions about your life. [SPEAKER_00]: So how the powerlessness wound might show up is with freeze responses, feeling very, very overwhelmed, feeling stuck, and a lot of difficulty making decisions.

19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I heard somebody actually just today in one of my women's groups described this as decision paralysis. [SPEAKER_00]: So, a really, really difficult time making any kind of decisions. [SPEAKER_00]: And then that can also lead to more feeling of freezing because when we are having difficult-making decisions, we can then get angry with ourselves frustrated with ourselves and that could lead to all of those other things, the feeling stuck, the being overwhelmed, freezing.

20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So these things, they overlap with each other and they're the cause and they're the effect, ultimately. [SPEAKER_00]: And so the compassion reminder here is your power wasn't taken. [SPEAKER_00]: It was completely bypassed and you can reclaim it. [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, you were powerless because if you didn't know something, if information was withheld from you, then you didn't have a choice.

20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And so now the reminder is, [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Your power can be reclaimed. [SPEAKER_00]: And I am offering you in this very moment and giving your permission to reclaim your power. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you will reclaim your power. [SPEAKER_00]: And the final wounds that we're going to talk about today is the trust wound.

20:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And the core belief here is trust is dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: And after being harmed by betrayal, vulnerability feels like a risk. [SPEAKER_00]: Trusting another person is very vulnerable because you know that trust now is dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: So it feels very, very scary. [SPEAKER_00]: So how the trust one can show up is with suspicion, with putting up walls and difficulty receiving reassurance or of love.

21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't matter how much somebody is trying to assure you of their love. [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost impossible to believe it because trust has already been destroyed. [SPEAKER_00]: And remember, what we're talking about here today, as we're always talking about on this podcast, is betrayal.

21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So when there has been betrayal violation, it's the violation of somebody who has been relied on for security and for safety. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking about a trust wound in the [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I say a lot, if a neighbor or a casual acquaintance betrays you, you might be disappointed or bummed out.

22:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But likely, you're not going to experience trauma. [SPEAKER_00]: When you're in a committed monogamous relationship with someone or a marriage, there is an expectation and natural and expected belief that you can trust the person you're in the relationship with and that person is going to keep you safe.

22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're in a relationship with a person like this, and that person betrays your trust, that leads to feeling that trust is dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: And now we become, again, sort of hyper vigilant in our relationships, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We're no longer just feeling like we can be vulnerable and that we can trust blindly.

22:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes very different to heal here. [SPEAKER_00]: And so the compassion reminder with the trust wound is healing doesn't require blind trust. [SPEAKER_00]: At one point, when you first got into your relationship, you probably had blind trust. [SPEAKER_00]: Blind trust is the thing that most people have in the early stages.

22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, with romantic love, when we're starting to get to know somebody, we often give our trust, unless we've really been violated in the past and we have the trust wound already. [SPEAKER_00]: Most of us just give blind trust. [SPEAKER_00]: But healing doesn't require the blind trust anymore.

23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It requires consistent safety. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you can heal the trust wound without blind trust, you can heal the trust wound with consistent safety. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I want to talk for a moment about how these 10 wounds interact inside of relationships. [SPEAKER_00]: They rarely show up one at a time.

23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They tend to cascade and interact specifically and especially within the couple ship. [SPEAKER_00]: So some common patterns that I see are one partner's control wound will trigger the others' worthiness wound, or one partner's trust wound will activate the other partner's [SPEAKER_00]: One partner's burden wound will directly collide with the other partner's powerlessness wound, and these dynamics are very normal.

24:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They're painful, yes, but they make sense and they're understandable when we understand human conditioning and human psyche. [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the hopeful part. [SPEAKER_00]: When couples can learn to name the wound that's showing up for them, then they can stay [SPEAKER_00]: They can actually see the wound as the problem, and then they can look to the relationship.

24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: as the solution. [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to say that in the early stages, if you're someone who has just learned about the betrayal or it's new for you, it's going to take a while before the couple ship cannot be identified as the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: But the goal is that over time with some healing and some movement forward, you'll come around and hopefully the betrayal will be seen as the problem, right?

24:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And the wound will be seen as the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: but not necessarily the person. [SPEAKER_00]: Why does naming the wound matter? [SPEAKER_00]: And it really does. [SPEAKER_00]: It matters because naming the wound will reduce self-blame. [SPEAKER_00]: It will decrease shame, increase clarity and understanding.

25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It will build compassion, both compassion for yourself and for your partner. [SPEAKER_00]: It will make communication safer. [SPEAKER_00]: It will make vulnerability easier. [SPEAKER_00]: It will help you ask for what you need. [SPEAKER_00]: It will help your partner understand your reactions and your requests.

25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: and it will allow you to see the wound instead of assuming this is just who I am. [SPEAKER_00]: So awareness and being able to name the wound opens the door to connection and to healing. [SPEAKER_00]: So as we start to wind down, I want to invite you to take a moment, not necessarily right now, you could, but it could be later today, and I want you to reflect on which of these wounds that I just introduced feel strongest for you right now.

26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: How do they show up in your behavior, in your emotions, or in your body, which wounds tend to get activated the most in your relationship? [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to encourage you to write those prompts down and to reflect on them, to really give thought to these wounds. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're listening with a partner or want to share with your partner later, you may ask, what wound do you see in me with the most compassion?

26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That can be a very healing question. [SPEAKER_00]: So before we close, [SPEAKER_00]: I want to speak directly to you right now. [SPEAKER_00]: If you are carrying any of these wounds, there is nothing wrong with you. [SPEAKER_00]: You are not weak, you are not broken, you are not unworthy, you are not doing something wrong.

27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You are responding instinctively to something that hurt you deeply. [SPEAKER_00]: Healing is possible, connection is possible, and the fact that you are listening to me right now, the fact that you're listening to this podcast tells me that you're already moving forward. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's end the way we began.

27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a breath with me. [SPEAKER_00]: Slowly in through your nose and release through your mouth. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah! [SPEAKER_00]: You are not alone in this journey. [SPEAKER_00]: You are worthy of safety, of presence, of truth, of love, and most important. [SPEAKER_00]: You're worthy of healing.

27:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being here with me today. [SPEAKER_00]: Until next time, take good care of yourself and please be gentle. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, where you're healing is our number one priority. [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like additional resources about the trail trauma, which will learn more about our coaching services, please visit HelpingCouplesheal.com or call 562-379-4325.

28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: our help is available worldwide. [SPEAKER_01]: Please support helping couples heal and continuing to reach others impacted by betrayal trauma by leaving a review on iTunes and sharing this podcast with someone you care about. [SPEAKER_01]: For additional support, follow us on Instagram and consider joining our helping couples heal private Facebook community.

28:43 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't an easy journey, but you don't have to do it alone. [SPEAKER_01]: Once again, thank you for listening.