Why Getting Ghosted is So Scary: The Neurochemistry of Heartbreak

0:00 Hi, I'm Bella Dane and this is How to Stop Being a Loser, where I chat about things I'm absolutely not qualified to talk about, but I'm randomly very interested in. I do my best to learn from industry professionals, and based what I share on as much science evidence and real life lessons as possible. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of How to Stop Being a Loser. Happy October! You may notice my decorations. I'm just a little excited about Halloween. And so we're doing some Halloween themed episodes and I'm like having the best time. So our first Halloween themed episode is today. We're talking about why getting ghosted is so scary.

0:44 And I bought this ghost from target specifically for this episode. There's also a skeleton, like a full size skeleton in my corner over there for another episode we're doing. So there's a little teaser for you guys. Um, I picked this episode, obviously, because why getting ghosted is so scary is obviously a very on theme name, but I picked it too because I am blown away at the science behind this. I had no idea that this was such a well-studied topic like ghosting in in particular, like in specific, ghosting has so, so much scientific literature about it specifically, and social rejection and loss and getting ghosted and and how it affects your dopaminergic system and negative reward prediction error. There's so

1:38 much here. So I'm very, very into this. If you're ever bored and you want like a science topic to study like neurochemistry of heartbreak, social rejection and how it looks similar to cocaine addiction in the brain, like there's so many things. So this is going to be a really good episode. There's a lot, there's a lot. This episode was fucking hard for me. To put together. Because there was so much research behind it, and I hope you find it as interesting as I did. So without further ado, let's get into why getting ghosted is so scary.

2:12 What is ghosting? So ghosting is when you're talking to someone consistently in a romantic way and suddenly they ghost, meaning they completely cut off communication with you. They stop replying. They stop communicating in any form. Out of the blue, very abruptly. That's what ghosting is. And so I think a lot of times, though, I'm sure everyone can relate to this. We think we're getting ghosted and we're not. I don't think someone I don't think someone not replying to you for like six hours is not you getting ghosted, right? And we know that. But sometimes it feels like you're getting ghosted. And I'll explain that later in this episode. But I think it's important when we're talking about ghosting and what I'm referring to in these studies, just to be accurate,

2:59 is when someone cuts off the relationship with you without any explanation, without any communication reason, you have no closure from them. And it's like a long term thing. It's not. They haven't replied in seven hours. This doesn't I mean, maybe some of it can apply to that, but this is this is like for real ghosting, not fake ghosting, although it still might be applicable information and it might still be helpful. So let's get into the neurochemistry of what's happening in your brain. When someone has ghosted you, when you realize they're not replying again. And I didn't do any sort of there's no specificity here in terms of how long it's been, the level of communication or commitment prior. Have you been texting for a week? Have you been

3:47 texting for a month? Has it been a year? Is this your, you know, married partner? So there's really no specificity here. And I just want to say that because I couldn't really find it either. Which is also why making that definition was a bit that distinct definition was a little bit tricky. So I do just want to say that. And frankly, I think it's because it might not matter.

4:13 Obviously you're getting ghosted by your husband of three years is a much more insane, unheard of crazy thing socially. But from a standpoint of what's going on, neuro chemically, obviously there's going to be varying degrees. I'm getting off into a tangent anyways. There there's no specificity there for how long you've been together and what the actual subjective situation is. Okay. Moving on. Wow. I'm going to be really chatty today. So the neurochemistry of what's actually going on, there's a lot going on. A lot, a lot, a lot going on. The thing that I want you to understand first and foremost is that socially having a mate would be very important to you. Biologically, it makes sense why us having access to a mate and having a

4:59 romantic relationship would be something that is important to us and to our health. There's a lot of studies that show people live longer, are less prone to chronic disease, and are healthier when they have a social community, when they are in a healthy romantic relationship. And that makes sense, right? Because that would increase your access to resources. It would increase your access to, you know, the ability to reproduce, which is sort of a biological, um, not necessity, but maybe like a, a natural biological thing, right, is for us to reproduce. And so your brain sees this as something that's really important because social consequences have such strong salient social connection, has such strong salient consequences to our survival,

5:45 to our health, and to the quality of our life. Large studies have found the people with social relationships tend to. Have substantially better survival outcomes than are than people who are socially isolated. I find when you're looking at things like this, it's a very primitive, primal thing. And if you look back, we have the same brain for fucking 500,000 years. Like we don't get any software updates. We have the same brain that we had when we were. Way, way, way, way, way. Less developed like cavemen. So you needing to reproduce, you wanting to have a mate, you wanting to increase your chances of survival. All of those same primitive mechanisms and desires and motivations are still deeply encoded into our brains in the way that they function. So

6:32 it makes a lot of logical sense why this would be something that's really, really important to you. This is someone who can, like, help me keep my ass alive, keep me healthy, and allow me the ability to reproduce. So your brain is extremely sensitive to social rejection and acceptance. And this is a romantic sense. I'm speaking in a romantic sense. Specifically for this episode today, but a lot of it intertwines loss and grief of a loved one, social acceptance with friends, a community romance. It's all really, really intertwined. And that's all very incestuous. So that's why when your brain has decided one particular person is really socially and emotionally important, and then that is taken from you, or that leaves your life, your logical

7:19 brain can be going, you have known this man for three weeks, and the primitive, primal survival part of your brain is going, we are being expelled from the village. You're never going to be able to. Reproduce again. And you're getting a direct threat to your health and chances of survival. And that is just not true. But that's why sometimes you feel like you're dying because there's a part of your brain that's kind of telling you, well, maybe you could be. And I think this is helpful because in there's so many times where we get ghosted or or we experience rejection, especially romantically, and we think there is something wrong with us. I'm here to tell you that there absolutely is something wrong with you. Um, but it is rooted in some science.

8:03 Does that make everyone feel better? Great. Everyone's like, why the fuck are we here? So romantic attraction recruits part of the brain's reward and motivation circuitry, particularly dopamine rich areas like the ventral tegmental area and parts of the striatum. The ventral. The ventral tegmental area is a group of neurons that are really closely associated with motivation and reward. They're a core part of the reward and motivation system. The striatum is the gateway to the basal ganglia, and its acts as the primary input gateway to the basal ganglia, and that's also really important for reward and motivation, which we will learn. a big part of romance. Partially because of how integral the dopaminergic system is

8:55 to romance and desire and love and attraction and rejection is reward and motivation. There's a lot of that here, which I found really interesting. It's not all about your primal need to survive and the benefits that would bring you. There's a lot of that, but there's a lot of this too. So and it's all sort of intertwined. So everyone always talks about dopamine. That's a big, big thing in the media right now. Like everyone is obsessed with talking about dopamine and dopamine detox and dopamine reset. Those are two oversimplified. To be accurate, I think they're good tools, and I don't think they're harmful to say. But I think there's a lot of confusion on dopamine. Do we need more? Do we need less? Do I

9:41 have too much or not have enough? What does the dopamine baseline and what does it mean? Detox. So I need to get rid of it. No. The answer to most of that is no. It's too oversimplified. Your relationship with dopamine and your dopaminergic system is something that you can improve through finding balance. That's the best way I would explain it. Dopamine is heavily involved in motivation, learning, wanting, reinforcement, and prediction. Dopamine is associated with the anticipation of wanting something, not having it. Which is why that sort of talking stage with someone is so, like exciting. And you feel rewarded and you have all this motivation to continue pursuing them and you have that sort of chase. That's because when you have

10:28 the anticipation of wanting something, that's a lot of dots. Dopamine is what's going on, and you don't have that as much unless you put the effort in. In my opinion, and like long term relationships because you have that thing Already, which that was also overly simplified. But just so you kind of know what I'm talking about. Okay, so in the talking stage with someone in your life where this is going to show up is if your phone lights up and you see that it's the guy that you're texting that's rewarding, and so you're going to have an influx, an increase in dopamine release, and you feel excited, maybe you feel wanted, maybe there's sexual attraction.

11:07 You're getting validation, affection. And so your brain starts learning. This person is associated with something valuable to me. So pay attention to that. Pursue that. That's the biggest thing with dopamine is it's going to motivate you to pursue things further. So here's another thing. When it's in those beginning stages, you're getting a maybe you're not getting a they will absolutely text me at this time. You're not getting a they won't you're getting a maybe maybe is a very seductive thing to us into the brain. And again, when we think about it from a biological perspective.

11:40 a maybe would be like, maybe there's water over there, maybe there's a potential mate over there. Maybe there's a potential resource over there. So pursue it, right? You're thinking like, let me go pursue it further because it may be is potential. You're texting this person a lot. You're getting a lot of texts, and you start getting this sort of prediction that that's going to happen. So after enough repetition, your brain is going to start learning the cues that predict that rewarding event. And your brain is really, really good at predicting things. You guys hear me talk about it a lot. The brain loves loves patterns. It loves predictability, and it loves comfortability. And so when you get in this, this pattern of every time

12:25 this person texted me, this person texted me, you know, every night and they say these nice things and I get this little influx of dopamine. It's like your brain starts to expect that to the point where your brain will actually start priming itself to expect it. Like like before it happens. That would be the definition of expectation. But so when you have. Oh yeah. Yeah.

12:49 So this is classic reward learning neuroscience. Dopamine neurons are famous for responding to something called reward prediction error. So it isn't necessarily his text arrives I get more dopamine released and that's good. Eventually it can become something like Friday night. You expect to see them or you expect to receive that text.

13:15 And so because your brain is going based on everything that's ever happened before and the pattern that I have learned, what's what's probably going to happen next, and then your brain acts accordingly. Your brain is always especially before 25 is always taking in your external environment, external stimuli, your everything, and it's creating an architecture that is going to suit that best and keep you primed and prepped in a way that's going to respond to that the most effectively. The best way to do that is through prediction. And so that's why it's so good at this. And dopamine neurons are so heavily involved in this. Because if you get rewarded that would incentivize you to do it again. Right. So most of the time that's

14:02 incredibly useful because it keeps you safe. It keeps you alive. It keeps you. My earring just fell out. So if every Friday night for three months you see somebody, your brain is going to learn that pattern. And if Friday comes in, nothing happens. You get negative reward prediction error. Negative reward prediction error is the amount of dopamine that your brain is expecting to get, minus what it actually gets. That's negative reward prediction error. And so your brain is like whoa, That does not feel good. So reward prediction error is the amount of dopamine that's released minus the amount that was expected. So if you're expecting a lot and you didn't get any. That's a big crash. The thing is now your brain kind of wants it even more. Because

14:50 after that, after not getting the reward that you expected, if you were to get it again when you didn't expect it, it would be even more dopamine. It would be even more. And so now you crave it even more. And like I said earlier, you're getting a maybe and that means potential. And that's going to increase your motivation for wanting to pursue this thing and continue pursuing this thing. It's kind of like if you are a slot machine and you've got nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, and then you got a reward. It's like the best thing ever. It's like, oh my gosh, it's. Way. Way, way more when it's unexpected and it's a surprise. And I would assume this has a lot to do with it's like an easy reward. Like you're not having to put that much effort in. And

15:32 if your brain is so obsessed with holding on to as much cognitive reserve as possible and not doing extra work, and you're able to get this reward without having to put any work in? Maybe that's, I don't know, just a thought. When you think something might happen. So if you get a maybe, maybe they'll text me, maybe they'll show up and then it doesn't happen. You get this really big emotional crash. So if you think that they will text you because they've been texting you for X amount of time, and your brain comes to expect that dopamine release and reward that you get when this very significant person to you and to your health text you and then you don't get it, that's a maybe your brain is going, oh, well, now I need to pursue this thing even harder. And now I

16:18 need to figure out what is going on, because that's a potential for me to get an even bigger increase in dopamine. If I do get it now because of negative reward prediction error. Okay. So that's the motivation of kind of why we want what we can't have, and why ghosting can feel so captivating and debilitating. I think that's a big I don't think I know that's a big reason why. And it also when your brain has done a really good job of creating patterns and predictions in your brain, and then something doesn't go that way and you have no explanation as to why nothing. It's not well, they died. Well they they're busy. They you know, you broke up when you don't have that sort of what we would call closure. Your brain is like

17:06 something must be wrong because I'm not able to predict the your environment properly. So there must be some sort of undetectable threat in your environment that I'm not able to protect you from. I can't create a prediction. I can't give you an explanation. That's kind of why you feel like something is wrong. And then you start making assumptions as to why, and that's why you want to find out why so bad. The number one thing you'll hear if someone gets ghosted is why? Well, maybe it was this, maybe it was this. And then you start spiraling, trying to figure out why. Trying to give yourself an explanation that, like obsessive compulsive circle, that you put yourself in that, like debilitating loop of, well, why would they ghost me? Why would they do that? I need to

17:50 find an explanation. I have to figure out why you're doing that. Because your brain has a very difficult time actually being okay with that. That sort of open ended thing. It has a really hard time going. My prediction was wrong, my pattern was wrong, and I have no reason why something is wrong. And not only is something may be wrong socially in the environment, but something might be wrong with my body. So so social rejection and romantic rejection, grief and loss actually recruit a lot of the same neural circuitry as physical pain. There's a lot of studies behind this, and there's so much to it. Like you're obviously your stress hormone can increase, your adrenaline can increase, your immune system can weaken your body, can start

18:35 prioritizing other mechanisms, and start prioritizing things like your digestive system so that you know you could lose your appetite. You could have digestive problems. Um, those kinds of things start happening to your body, and it can actually go as far as to something called broken heart syndrome, which if you experience an emotionally traumatic enough event and emotionally a traumatically significant a significantly traumatic enough event that emotionally impacts you so significantly that your heart will actually weaken, like your cardiovascular system will actually weaken, the muscles of your heart can actually weaken because of that, which is so crazy to me. Like the mind body connection was established in the 80s, I

19:21 think, but hearing things like that Never fails to shock me. So it's not that you're crazy for feeling like you are physically ill or physically in pain when you're experiencing rejection like that, because to some degree you actually are. And it's not that your brain can't tell the difference. Your brain knows whether you broke a leg versus whether someone stop responding to you. But a lot of that same neural circuitry is included and involved, and that's why it can be so painful. So that's a lot. And that was the cliff notes like, oh my God. There was so, so so much. And that actually didn't take as long as I thought it was going to. So maybe we have time. Let me read some of this to you all because this was so

20:06 interesting. There were so many great studies and reviews and literature that I found. So this really interesting study where they used functional magnetic resonance imaging fMRI to study ten women and five men who had recently been rejected by a partner but reported they were still intensely in love forebrain activations associated with motivational relevance, gain and loss. Cocaine craving, addiction, and emotional regulation suggests that higher order symptoms systems, higher order systems subject to experience and learning also may mediate the rejection reaction. Activation of areas involved in cocaine addiction may help explain the obsessive behaviors associated with rejection in love. So, do you see what I said when I said this

20:51 is a lot? It's a lot. It's recruiting so many interesting parts of the brain. It's doing so much to the brain. It's confusing its reward prediction error. It's or it's negative reward prediction error. It's you're decreasing your chances of survival. It's recruiting the same neural circuitry as physical pain. It's recruiting the same neural circuitry as addiction and and cocaine craving, which is obviously a very strong part of the brain. And that's where a lot of that obsessive behavior comes from. And so when you feel like you are on drugs or losing your mind, you kind of are. And that really shocked me and gave me a lot of comfort in the same way, because I think we've all been there where we feel like we are losing our minds when it comes

21:35 to love or rejection or someone dying or someone. And this is, you know, I'm not trying to put this in the same category as loss or grief, but a lot of those things overlap. You're not crazy. You're actually just like everyone else. And unfortunately, we have a brain that just kind of freaks out and and starts recruiting all of these different parts of itself to try and cope with what happened. And it's not the most effective and comfortable way. Isn't that crazy? It's not as much like I'm building this team with someone where I'm building a family with them. And I mean, it recruits a whole, you know, those are very different neurotransmitters. We know in women it's a lot of oxytocin. And men it's a lot of depressant. But in those first, like six months of

22:26 the talking stages, it's a lot of dopamine. You don't even really know this person. So why are you so sad about them not being in your life anymore? Well, this is why it's a lot of of goals. It's a lot of loss. It's a lot of losing failure. What's wrong with me and all those other things that I that I said, which helped explain my early stage. Romantic love affects behavior so profoundly, and it really does affect your behavior. It affects your perception. It clouds your judgment profoundly, profoundly. It's very difficult for you to focus on anything else because it's recruiting the same neural circuitry as you craving cocaine. Isn't that crazy? And a study of 114 men and women who had been rejected by a partner within the. Within the past eight weeks, 40% experienced

23:12 clinically measurable depression, 12% displayed moderate to severe depression. In a study of American college students, 93% of both sexes reported that they had been rejected by someone they passionately loved. 95% had rejected someone who was deeply in love with them, and cross-culturally, some rejected lovers committed suicide or homicide. Like this shit makes you crazy. It really, really does. And isn't that crazy? I know everyone is like, oh, love makes you crazy and it makes you depressed. No, not like, not like, oh, I'm depressed. No, like clinically measurable depression. That's not something to take lightly. And I think we all say things like, oh, of course it affects your body. Of course it makes you this. But for me, actually seeing the

23:57 studies and seeing this is like clinically measurable data. I find a lot of comfort in that and a lot of just understanding about what's going on in my own body. Several psychologists regard romantic love as an addiction because it shows addiction characteristics, such as the lovers intensely focused attention on a preferred individual, mood swings, craving, obsession, compulsion, distortion of reality, emotional dependance, personality changes, risk taking, and loss of self-control. Yeah, imagine you are experiencing those things. That's what he regarded romantic love as. And then you don't get it when you're expecting to get it. How crazy. I'm going to do an episode, I think, around Valentine's Day about love and the science of love. Maybe the

24:40 neurochemistry of heartbreak, but getting ghosts in particular has a lot more to do with that negative reward prediction error. I have said this before. But texting is a massive, massive reason why this negative reward prediction error has increased and makes you feel like you're dying because the screen lighting up like that. Not only is your phone in general a massive, it's a how do I explain when you are scrolling or you're texting or you're getting those notifications light up on your phone, it's significantly raising your dopamine like it's significantly releasing a lot of it. So much from this artificial thing that you wouldn't have gotten for a thousand years ago or even a hundred years ago because you didn't have that. So absolutely, it's intensifying all of

25:36 this. And I think it's funny because when you think about it, if you had a phone, being ghosted would be a much less measurable, much less obvious thing. You know what I mean? You wouldn't have social media to check. You wouldn't have texting, you wouldn't have those things where you can track them and see what they're up to. So I do think that that makes that significantly worse, which is partially why y'all, I don't text at least my boyfriend and I, we still don't text very much, but specifically in the beginning, we don't prioritize texting and that kind of communication. I think prioritizing in-person communication is great for helping heal your relationship with dopamine, because you're not getting that insane amount of

26:22 stimulation all at once, and relying on that to sort of fuel the attraction. That way. I think you're able to build a relationship with someone that's not rooted in reward seeking, motivation craving. You're able to build a relationship with them based off of you know them and building something with them, and it's about them. So I'm glad you brought that up, because I do. I think that's a huge contributing factor. I didn't see any studies about that, but man, I bet that's a massive factor because how could it not be? So that's kind of what's going on neurochemical with you. And that's the answer to why getting ghosted is so scary. Sometimes you don't want the man. Your brain just wants the answer. And that's why you always hear that. You always hear, well, why is he

27:05 go see me? And I just want to know why. And then you and your girlfriend sit for hours and days and months trying to figure out what he's thinking. I am now going to get into some practical advice of what I would recommend. The first thing I would recommend is stop fucking doing that. Like, you have to release yourself from this painful cycle of self torture where you think, if I just understood why he's not responding, then I would feel better about myself. Then I would feel better. You won't. You actually actually will not. Where was this study? It was so crazy. Okay. A 2018 study by Lang Slag. Sorry if I'm butchering that. And Sanchez tested several strategies for regulating feelings towards former partners. Thinking

27:54 deliberately about a former partner's negative qualities. Reduced reported feelings of love. Which is why after you break up with them, you suddenly have a million reasons why this guy is an asshole. Why this guy sucks. He doesn't deserve you. Even though three days ago you thought he was the love of your life. Also, it made participants feel more unpleasant in the show, although it made although it although it also made participants feel more unpleasant in the short term.

28:22 Distraction improved immediate mood without reducing feelings of love. Isn't that interesting? So. Yeah, I think that's that's a good thing because you have to release yourself from this. He's an asshole. He sucks. Sort of trying to make yourself feel better because it's not actually making you feel better short term or long term. So that's a big thing. But anyways, I would absolutely recommend you release yourself from that. And you do everything you can to engage in regulating your dopaminergic system. You can do that by adjusting your dopamine schedule and so doing everything that you can, because you know that part of the reason why is because of this negative reward prediction error. So let's show

29:12 the brain that we're following a new pattern now, and that it's okay. And just know that every time you engage with resetting your dopamine system and showing your brain a new pattern, it is going to make you feel better. And repetition rewires okay. Repetition rewire. So we're trying to rewire. We're going to do that through repetition. So actually viewing bright light from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. can increase your potential to feel disappointed by blunting your dopamine. So doing everything you can to stay off your screen and regulate your sleep actually will significantly, significantly help. I know that when you're going through a breakup or you feel ghosted, it's very hard to connect, to continue eating normally and sleeping normally and taking care of yourself.

29:54 Because all you can do is think about this thing that you want. Now that you know what's going on, I want you to do everything you can to create a new pattern and reestablish your relationship with dopamine. Okay, so like getting sunlight in the morning, keeping a consistent sleep schedule. Eat one meal a day, undistracted. Go on a walk, undistracted, regulating your circadian rhythm. I know those things sound sort of rudimentary and oversimplified, and everyone says, just keep taking care of yourself. Throw yourself into taking care of yourself. Throw yourself into it. There is science that this will help. So really, really, really do that. Changing your reinforcement schedule. Um, so like I said, your brain has learned this pattern of expecting this text and now it's

30:36 not getting that. Let's break that pattern of reinforcement and change that schedule. So a practical exercise is going to be breaking that checking loop. I would start seriously utilizing turning your notifications off Do Not Disturb intentionally forcing yourself to redirect your attention to other things when you start thinking about it. Um, instead of time every day to be like, I'm going to check my messages from my boss, from work, maybe not from your boss, and because you do that every day, but from your friends. When you want to check your texts, include him in that same bucket. Now you know what I mean. Like, okay, at 6:00, when I'm done with work, I'm going to check my text and respond to people, and that can be a part of that. You're just checking your messages like

31:19 normally. So you're breaking that pattern of reinforcement. Um, if you do have the urge to check, you can delay it. And if you need to set a timer because it's so hard for you, set a timer for ten minutes, 20 minutes and do something else. You're actively redirecting your brain to break that pattern of reinforcement when you do that. It's very, very effective. And I know it's not.

31:44 Maybe the advice you want to hear that he's an asshole and you need to, you know, tell me why he's such a dick, like all those kind of things that I think we engage in, that maybe it's more of the sexier advice. But the truth is, we do have practical things that work like we do have scientists that have studied this and doing things like that will work, you know. Mute their notifications. Stop looking at their story. Stop engaging in that obsessive behavior and you will train your brain to stop expecting it. That's why you keep doing it, is because your brain's expecting you to do it. If you can break that pattern of expectation, that reduces the potential for disappointment that you keep getting every time, and it will make you feel better. Oh, another

32:27 thing that I love talking about, which is now going to lead me into my personal advice, is cognitive reappraisal. It's a legit scientific thing where you intentionally, deliberately change your perception of the situation. So you're doing a reappraisal cognitively of the situation of what's going on to you, which is what is the story I make up about it because we all have a story, we make up about things. And I think if you can stop and ask yourself, what is the story that I'm making up? And like, say that out loud, maybe because it's going to force you. My parents did this, me growing up a lot. Whenever I would start to start making assumptions, really about situations, about perceptions, well, they're probably just thinking this or this is probably

33:09 what, you know, I bet they're saying this and you start creating this reality in your head that is that has no basis of anything. It's really easy to convince yourself of these things, of your assumptions. We we get. Really, really. Convicted in our assumptions. If you've ever read the Four Agreements, which if you're getting ghosted, read the Four agreements, or if you're just a human being that wants to live a better life, read the Four Agreements. I think you'll find a lot of connections with that book, and with sort of the science that I'm explaining to you now. One of the principles of the four agreements, one of the agreements is don't make assumptions because it's completely useless. It is useless. Tell me this. Tell me what

33:50 explanation he could give you or she could give you. That is going to actually make you feel better. None. You know what it's going to do? It's gonna. It's going to give your brain that sense of closure, and it's going to stop that part. Of. Your brain that's sort of that sort of, um, open ended lack of predictability that your brain doesn't like. It's going to remove a lot of that discomfort. Sure. But actually, logically, what is it going to do? I'm telling you right now, there is no explanation that's going to be good enough for you. That's going to make you go, oh, no worries. Totally makes sense. The reason why you want to know, and I have had a lot of girlfriends that experience this. Well, I just want to know. I'm just curious. I just

34:39 want to know. Know. You want to know. And the only reason you want to know why someone has rejected you is because you think it has something to do with you. The thing about rejection, or anything anyone else does, is that it cannot have anything to do with you. It literally cannot. I will prove this to you. We have all seen, either in real life or in documentaries or on social media.

35:05 People will stay in relationships with the worst people you've ever met in your life. We all have that friend who's dating that other person and we're like, what the fuck? This person is like the Antichrist that just crawled out of. A pit of hell. And is insane. I mean, people will stay in relationships with people who are physically abusing them, and I'm not making a joke out of that right now. I'm saying that if you ever think that someone is rejecting you because it has something to do with you, you're just wrong. You're just wrong. Like if if someone else do you get what I'm trying to say? People will stay in relationships with the worst, worst, worst kinds of people. Abusive, toxic. Traumatic situations. We don't know why,

35:50 but to say that, well, it was probably because I'm to this or I'm not enough. this. Okay. And does that have something to do with, you know, you could be the most delicious, amazing piece of chocolate cake in the world, and someone else is going to prefer vanilla, even if the vanilla is, like, really toxic. You know what I'm saying? And traumatizing. And bad. Maybe they wanted someone who's an idiot because a lot of people want someone. Who. Is dumb. And maybe you're not that. Maybe they wanted someone who was more submissive and you weren't that.

36:25 Maybe they wanted someone who was more dominant. And you're not that. Maybe they wanted a blond. Maybe. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many things. And ghosting is not an excuse, ever. And it never validates that behavior ever, ever, ever. But it it cannot have anything to do with you. Anything, anything, anything that anyone outside of yourself does is a projection of their experiences, their perceptions, their beliefs, their childhood. It literally cannot have anything to do with you because you can only operate from one perspective and it's yours. Do you know what I'm trying to say? So this concept of of. Well, I just want to know why you don't. You don't. You're looking for something that would validate your fear, that it has something to do with you,

37:13 and you're just not going to get that. And I think a lot of times, again, like what I said, neurologically, what's so frustrating is you feel like you've a lack of closure and the brain is frustrated about that. That's true. But you can either be a part of solution or a part of the problem. And if the reality is that you're not going to get closure from this other person, we have to get you to give it to yourself. What I think is the best advice that I hear every woman on the planet give that has been through this, that I will back with my full chest, that is backed by science. Focus on yourself. It's so overset and underused.

37:50 I find that people like to say that a lot, but they don't actually know what it means, or they say it. But then when it comes to time to actually apply that because they are getting rejected or they're going through something hard, they continue engaging in those sort of, um. So just torture, self torture behaviors of spiraling about why, why, why would he do this and, and try to figure out why and making all of these assumptions. And I would challenge you to challenge your assumptions and stop believing every thought that pops into your head. Just because you're having an emotion, a reaction, an opinion, you don't need to believe all of them. And frankly, after what I just told you about the way the state of your mind right now, girlfriend, I

38:36 wouldn't trust any thought because you're out of your mind like you are on drugs, and you are going to have a completely different perception of this in probably five minutes. Like you're in a state of like, mild psychosis. You're experiencing a distorted version of reality. So why are you so convicted in these assumptions that you're having? Like. You really, really, really have to. Override the way that your brain is operating right now and do everything you can to redirect it back into a state of normalcy and stability. The day you stop taking things personally, you will feel the most peace you've ever felt in your entire life. It's really not something you can take personally, so do not respond. Don't ask why. Don't reach

39:22 out. I think we've put and like we just talked about texting, we've placed a lot of emphasis on verbal communication or texting communication. I guess technically digital communication. Stop placing so much emphasis on that. There's a lot being communicated and a lot more being communicated through actions and behavior, particularly with men, because they're just not as verbally strong, which is just true. It's not a good or bad thing. It's not a judgment. It's just a fact. Women typically excel and almost every single verbal apparatus compared to men. And so when we say, well, why? Well, they don't want to tell you why. They are not reaching out to you because they don't want to reach out to you. They do not want to have a

40:06 relationship anymore. And so they're not having a relationship anymore. I think this is often taken too far on social media, where if someone doesn't respond to you within six hours, you start going, well, if he wanted to, he would. And this guy's an asshole and this guy is an avoidant attachment. No he's not. But like, if you want more communication and more texting, then you need to communicate that. I would ask yourself if my best friend told me this exact story, would I conclude that she wasn't good enough? No. And suddenly it seems ridiculous. Um, yeah, I think I talked about taking care of yourself. Deliberate relaxation, regulating your stress response. So when you do start to feel stressed and it looks like this. Like we know

40:48 grief and loss and rejection. It's a it's very up and down. When you start getting those sort of you get that spike of cortisol, you get that sort of alertness. Your, your brain starts going, oh fuck, I'm feeling upset again. I'm thinking about them again. And then you have that same reaction. What your thoughts are triggering that chemical response. So when you think about him or something remind you of him, those chemicals will release and start firing. And so doing something like box breathing, you inhale for for you hold at the top for, for you exhale through a straw for, for that's actually used by Navy Seals to almost immediately regulate your physiological stress response. Lower your heart rate, lower your cortisol, look up things like that. Redirect your attention to the

41:30 present. Okay, the one thing I want to say I was looking online. Oh my God, I like don't even want to. Say this because I really don't encourage it. But if you are like in love with this man And you really? You really want to say something? The only thing I have found that I think would be maybe interesting to say is this girl got quote unquote ghosted, which who knows what that means. It could have been a day or two. It could. You know what I mean? It may have not been a real ghosting situation. She texted him, tough crowd, which is the funniest thing ever. That somehow communicates it's not that big of a deal. I don't really care, but like, what a funny, clever thing to say. And now they're married. I heard that story on TikTok and

42:16 I thought it was great. So that's my $0.02. And I didn't even want to say that, because now I feel like everyone is going to be like, oh, here's, here's an opportunity. Like, I'm I'm giving you a reason to text him. No, I think nine times out of ten do not actually nine and a half times out of ten do not. But I thought that was so funny and I had to share. And now we're going to get into the gold line.

42:43 Hi Bella, it's Charlie. I absolutely love your podcast. I'm literally a day one. I've been here since episode one. Thank you. Love your TikToks. They've changed my life. I just wanted to hear you talk about hormones for women. Um, going off birth control. It's a big change, and it wreaks havoc on your hormones. I've heard you speak about copper IUDs and taking saffron to help with mood. I believe that's what it was. Could you just give us your input on how to cope with going off of birth control, your opinions on balancing hormones, and just keeping overall hormonal health? Thank you. Yes, okay, I like I like that question. I'm glad you brought that up. It's not something I'm the most well versed in, and I would love to do a full topic on. I would say one

43:32 of the most common misconceptions is that birth control is this awful thing for your body. It is one of the most well-studied medicines out there. and I think it's not something to be afraid of. I tend to be a little bit of a hypochondriac, and I'm very, very concerned about my health. And so before I went on oral contraceptives, which is what I'm assuming you're referring to, which is hormonal birth control, I would just recommend getting your hormones tested and making sure that all of your levels look good and are normal, and then try the birth control and then get tested six months later and see how they're doing. Really, the only way to do it is through tests. And I think people love to throw around things like get your hormones tested,

44:17 balance your hormones. Like what if they are balanced? And what hormones are we talking about? And are we talking about reproductive hormones? Or we're talking about cortisol. Like, like what are we talking about here? And what if my what if my levels are perfectly fine and everyone's going to be different. And so I think, oh, take this supplement to balance your hormones. It's like, well, which one is it balancing? And do I even have levels that are off and which of mine are off. And so I think it's something to definitely use blood testing for and talk to your ob gyn about over everything. It's nothing to be afraid of. The only thing I will tell you with oral contraceptives that I wish was communicated more, is that there's a window of fertility that exists. So if you're

44:58 planning on having kids, ever knowing that when you get off of it, you're probably not going to be, like, immediately fertile and able to have kids. Sometimes it can take up to two years. Something I liked about the copper IUD and why I have the copper idea is because you take it out and you immediately can have kids and are fertile, so that's something to consider. But unless you're experiencing symptoms that you think are indicative of hormonal imbalance, I don't know if it's something to be worried about. People throw that around a lot. So yeah, I would say based all of it on actual testing and then see maybe I need more estrogen and maybe this oral contraceptive is actually helping me boost that. So maybe, you know, there's a lot of cases where oral

45:35 contraceptives can actually boost your hormones. So that's what I tell you to do. So I'm 22 years old, and I feel like I've struggled my whole life with obsessing over my looks and being beautiful. Yeah, I've been told I was beautiful my whole life. And that is not me trying to brag. I say that very humbly. I'll even often have strangers compliment me, but I truly cannot see this within myself. And it ruins so many experiences for me because I'm so concerned and obsessed with how I look. I feel like I treat myself like never ending improvement project, and I want this to stop and stop robbing me of so much joy and other experiences. But I truly don't know how to rewire this thought about myself. Yeah, I can relate to that. And I

46:29 know what you mean. Like, being pretty is something where I feel like if you say I'm pretty. People think you're bragging, but it's not like an accomplishment. It's not something that deserves praise. It just kind of is what it is. And I do think it can be, um, challenging sometimes. I definitely experience that. I feel like I have a lot of people underestimate me with the topics that I talk about, because I'm a conventionally attractive person, and I can absolutely relate to that, especially because I'm so obsessed with optimizing everything science and wellness that often leads into beauty. What I would tell you is, I promise you, I promise you, no one cares if you're pretty or not. Genuinely, genuinely, no one

47:14 actually truly cares the most that that is going through someone's mind is oh, wow, that's that's she's really pretty. But that's it. It is the least interesting thing about you. And I would tell you to take that same optimization sort of obsessive thought process you're experiencing, and I would do everything you can to channel into other things. For me, it's learning and taking care of myself from the inside out and my supplement routine and taking care of my home. I'm I'm an obsessive person for sure, but I can tell you, if you take that energy and you channel it into something else, it's going to it's going to feel better for you. And I also think, again, this is a matter of you've trained your brain to

48:00 focus on this, and it's a pattern of reinforcement. So we can change that pattern. What I would encourage you to do is kind of what I'm saying, which is direct your attention every single time. So when you start staring at yourself in the mirror, obsessing over how you can be prettier, I think you should actually set a timer. I'm dead serious. Set a timer for five minutes because I don't think it's something you should tell yourself I'm never going to think about. I think you should think about it for five minutes, and then I think you should do everything you can to take all of that and deliberately redirect your focus to something else or delay it. Kind of like I said in this past episode. This is a pattern and you can fix patterns, but I know how you feel. I

48:41 promise you, it's the least interesting about you and no one actually truly gives a shit. And when you die, you are not going to go. Thank God my chin was the perfect diameter and my lips were the perfect, you know, had the perfect amount of volume. You're just not going to be focusing on that. Um, and I know what you mean, but you have to make it less significant. And you do that by making other things more significant. Hey, Queen, love you so, so much. You actually feel like a friend to me and I feel like I know you. But my question is, unfortunately, about a guy I've already watched your Mastering Detachment video. I'm. I will say I'm not one to get anxiously attached at all. I'm very, you know, grounded and secure within myself. Besides the point for some contacts, me and this

49:20 guy have known each other for a while. We've only just started rekindling again, like recently. So we've officially gone out twice. And the last time we went out was two weeks ago, give or take. I am confused why? Because I would say it's definitely a slow burn. There's a lot of flirty banter for sure. And I will say that we've already established that this guy likes me.

49:46 Like I know he likes me. I like he tells his friends about me, I, I just play dumb and I like, I'm like, how do your friends know about me? I don't know them. He's like, really? Tell them about you. Oh, okay. Whatever. Anyways, sorry to the point. He likes me. Okay, great. I'm confused because he's telling me, you know, I'm on your time. Tell me when you're free and all plan accordingly. Great. So I tell him when I'm free and I'm not always free. So it's not like, you know, I'm handing out fricking candy. So I told him when I was free, he cancels day before. That's fine.

50:19 Shit happens. And then he hits me with the oh. I'm not going to go out this whole. Month. Like, what does that mean for me? The way I interpreted it was don't ask. don't tell me when you're free. Because I don't want to go out with you this whole month. That's basically how I see it. I think I can relate to this. I actually have a similar. Well, can I? I wish I had more context. Okay, here's what I would do. If you know that this guy likes you and you're confused, then you need to.

50:50 You're not communicating your standards to him because clearly you're unhappy because you're confused. So what I would do is when he's saying, I'm on your time, I would tell him, hey, I'm looking for this. Which, frankly, girlfriend date two should have already happened, in my opinion. So you don't think that you're doing this too early? Because if anything, I think you're late, so don't be afraid to tell him. And I absolutely would tell him. In this case, I'm looking for a long term serious relationship and that includes consistent planned dates. I would really, really love it if you could plan a date with me. A date night with me every single week. That is all I would say. You do not over explain that. You don't tell him why that is. You don't ask him. Stop

51:38 asking him stuff. He's saying he's on your time. Okay, well, here it is. You know what I mean? I think the best thing you can do as a woman is know your needs and your standards, know how to communicate them, and then see what he does. If he complies, great. If he doesn't, then you know, understand that you are pursuing a relationship with someone who is confusing. I think you should communicate that you value clarity and consistency. And that looks like this.

52:07 You know what I mean? Guys need specific, measurable things. Like, I remember I had set my boyfriend, I want a nightly call. I want a weekly date, I want I think that's all. That's really all we do. Um, and he did it, you know what I mean? And we used to go, like, 12 hours without texting each other, which I talk about a lot on here, and I'm in the happiest relationship I've ever been in. But I don't think you should start questioning it or overthinking it. I think you just need to kind of put your big girl pants on and communicate your standards and and let him kind of rise to the occasion. So that's what I would do. Thank you guys for listening. I hope this episode. Wasn't too sciency and you got some practical advice out of it. Um, but I do think it's

52:49 helpful to just know what's going on in your brain. And that's it for this episode. So thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Please subscribe and follow. Um, Instagram, TikTok. And then you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And I will see y'all next week. Bye. All opinions and advice given on the show are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered professional, medical, legal, financial or other expert advice. Do your own research and consult a qualified professional when appropriate.