The Save Europe Act and the Bad Faith Nazis Who Created It

Hi everyone, this is future Mick adding some stuff for less future Mick, who you'll be hearing most of during the podcast. This episode took a pretty long while, I'm not sure how long it will be in post-production, but per my own recording we talked for almost three hours, which is a lot. Therefore, this episode will be cut into multiple pieces. Make sure to start at part one.

I'm sorry for any awkward breaks in the post-production, but it was very hard to keep that in mind while we were recording. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to It Could Happen Here, the podcast of things falling apart and possibly how to put them back a little bit. My name is Mick. As expected, I'm here with James Stout because James is always here with me, but I'm also very happy to say hello to Molly Conger, who's also agreed to join. How are you guys doing?

I'm great. I'm excited. I'm pumped to learn about some weird Nazis. It's me and Molly, but it's not an animal. So I guess some people are already sad, but I like doing podcasts with both of you. So it's going to be fun.

I'm looking forward to whatever horrors we're about to learn.

Uh, yes. I knew once I dove into this, I was like, okay, I need to light the MOLLE signal and make sure that I get you to come on as well.

You're about somebody else's Nazis for a change.

Yeah, exactly. Like European Nazis with whom you're probably much less familiar, but probably no less horrifying. So what we'll be talking about today is the Save Europe Act, what it is, what kind of European mechanisms it tries to use to push through horrible shit.

That sounds xenophobic.

Yeah.

Anytime people are wanting to save a thing, like nine times out of ten, we've got to ask who they're saving it from. And if it's the presence of people who aren't white, that's.

Why do you think it needs to be saved?

Yeah.

Are you worried about the dilution of Aryan blood?

Oh, you're so on point, Molly.

Oh, God. You have no idea.

We're also going to look a bit at the people who are orchestrating this because there are funny instances and also horrifying instances. I've tried to make it a bit of a mix of the two, but I'll be honest. I've put this little project down a few times because I just got angry about it. I need to make jokes in order to make it palpable. Also, I have, against my better judgment, decided to make a Blue Sky account.

So if anyone wants to reach me or if I do stuff incorrectly, you can contact me there. It's at 2soberpossums. com. Stop harassing James if I'm the one you're mad at. Originally, I intended to have a little fun opening, but over the course of this research, I got upset and angry. After reading an in-depth report from the Justice for Prosperity, it became clear that a bunch of fourth Reich enthusiasts can be funny when you just look at it superficially.

But the report suggests that more nefarious people are, at the very least, facilitating profoundly racist and anti-democratic behavior. movements at worst it's the rich and powerful deliberately pushing Europe towards fascism and emboldening wannabe brown shirts to commit more acts of violence for again again yeah and it gets better because it's for like a democratic proposal that was like doomed from the very start like red shirt in Star Trek doomed like that one teenage couple having sex somewhere in a horror film doomed it's like I can't exaggerate how doomed this was. So let's get going. What is the Save Europe Act and who are the ones behind it? According to their own website, the Save Europe

Act is the first ever campaign to launch a patriotic European citizens initiative. We demand that the political elite halt their replacement migration, secure our borders, and protect the ethnocultural identity of European nations. Oh dear.

My eyes are getting wider with every clause of that sentence.

Yeah, those are some trigger words.

Like those TikToks of like, you know, when you say like a dog's favorite words, you say, you want to go to the park? Do you want to get a treat? And the dog gets like progressively more alarmed.

Yeah, but then in a bad way. Yeah, that's me, but negative.

Oh, okay.

Well, it's not getting any better. So at first we're going to dive into like the Save Europe Act itself. And then we're going to look at the European Citizens Initiative.

So is that like a referendum, like a ballot initiative, but for all of Europe? We're sorry. Most of the audience is American. So I'm going to be the token dumb American here. I need you to explain to me what's that.

We'll get there because I've laid it out.

Because Europe is not a country.

No, no, no.

Europe is a state of mind.

And a band.

Oh, really? Is it?

The Final Countdown.

Oh, I've heard that at a sports event.

Yeah.

I've heard those words in the long, long ago sometime. But OK, to make it a bit more clear for Molly specifically.

For the Americans.

I'm not American, so I can't banter like that. It's a legislative request that has to be considered by the EU if certain conditions are met. In the grander machine of the EU, Citizens Initiative is a way for Europeans to directly influence laws through the collection of support and signatures.

So they got a big petition going. They got all the racists in Europe to sign their petition.

Yeah, think of it like a petition on steroids or a protest that, for a change, cannot simply be ignored by the powers that be. The charter itself is barely a three-minute read, but I thought it would still be too lengthy and dull. So I'll skip the preamble and move on to the core claims and demands that they make.

Should you have the desire or the masochism to want to read it yourself, you can find it on their website. It will be in the show notes together with all the other sources I've had the misfortune of reading. So this is part two of the Charter. I quote, acknowledging further that Article 22 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union requires the Union to respect cultural, religious and linguistic diversity, which must include the protection of the historic cultures and traditions of Europe's nations against erosion through demographic replacement. Oh, there it is.

That's very clever. Oh, we want to respect the diversity of our beautiful, all these different white cultures.

Exactly.

That's cute.

The first time that a fascist has used the word diversity, not in a completely bad faith way.

Right. Yeah, that's really cute of them. Just like there's so much diversity of all the different whites.

Yes.

We have to protect our cultural heritage.

Nothing but premium whites. So at point three. attesting how replacement migration, both legal and illegal, over recent decades has violated that right by causing significant damage to the social cohesion, public services, security, and ethnic and cultural continuity of the European nations, leading to parallel societies, increased crime, and the marginalization of native populations in their ancestral homelands. Come on.

Anytime you hear a fucking European white person using the word native or indigenous to describe themselves, just tell them to fuck off. Just the most puerile shit. Come on.

I've been reading a lot of like 20th century sort of eugenics writing lately, you know, early, early 1900s. And every time they say, you know, he was a native American, I'm like, he was what? They mean he was a white person whose family came here in the 1700s. He was a Native American. Like, that's not how we use that phrase now.

This is still a giant problem in, like, local journalism in the United States. Like, I remember I was writing for Pointer, which, if people aren't familiar, Pointer is like an institute of journalism, I think. It's like a journal about journalism.

Mm, meta.

And I remember two reporters, I was writing about how people just can't stop saying that cops overdosed on fentanyl. When they didn't, they had a panic attack.

Mm-hmm.

This is a problem, and it's a problem that is apparently insurmountable for many local newspapers, including the San Diego Union Tribune. Both reporters there called themselves San Diego natives, and the Native American Journalist Association style guide suggests that you should generally put tribal affiliation afterwards. So I asked them, and they got very upset. But I genuinely, if you're a person who makes a living with words, and you're just a white person who was born somewhere, and you're using natives, You're showing that you're incapable of using words accurately.

I think that should be disqualifying in itself if you're a journalist.

You're bad at your job.

Yeah, I find it really fucking annoying.

So it's interesting in that clause, right? So they're not just upset about illegal immigration, right? They're not just upset about refugees and asylum. They're saying legal and illegal. So right from the jump, they're saying illegal. This is just an ethnic thing. We just want everyone to be white. There's not even pretending that's not about everyone being white.

It gets worse. Oh, good. Good.

But it started very bad.

It started bad. Yeah.

They're not even pretending.

No, no. You're starting like already knee deep in shit. And the more you wade through like the sewer.

We started with the Nuremberg laws.

Yes.

It's kind of a heated first sentence.

That was like genuinely one of my first thoughts. Like. Should shit go incredibly bad in Europe with shit like this, then this is something that will be brought up in whatever the new.

In the tribunals.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, when they're writing the history book.

I have that thought often.

Yeah.

I have that thought in my fantasies often.

Molly has a tribunals folder on her computer. which is, she's got a whole hard drive now.

Look, when they come, when they're ready, I have files. Just come get me.

You've got the receipts.

Okay. Point four. underlying the urgency of the matter by acknowledging the imminent reality that the native peoples of Europe risk becoming minority populations in their own homelands if radical changes to the asylum and migration system are not made.

I'm sorry, like this level of just open bitching, like, oh, I'm sorry, you believe in great replacement conspiracy theories. Like, that's embarrassing for you. That's embarrassing.

Yeah, and this pathetic concern trolling, like... Oh, we, the indigenous people, are being colonized by people seeking fucking asylum.

Our beautiful, brave Teutonic ancestors are being replaced.

Grow up! Like, I would accept it if they would just refer it back to, like, the original Celts before, like, the Christendom and the Romans came.

Like, yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

It's the people from Italy they're really mad about.

We need to fucking, like, praise Teutatis and Katurix again. from like the old Gaelic days. You know, I would respect that.

These probably are the same like German neo-Nazis who still celebrate like Arminius Day.

These are the same people who would also have like done Africa starts at the Pyrenees stuff not so long ago and like absolutely excluded anyone from Iberia from being like European or white. So, you know, maybe that's the diversity they're talking about, maybe.

I do love that inter-white racism. Like, The really niche stuff, like are Macedonians white?

Yeah, being someone who was a historian of Iberia for much of my 20s, it's wild. It's wild shit that you will see in old-timey texts and from old-timey people at history conferences.

Oh, I'm talking about stuff I've seen on the front.

Oh, yeah, that's also. Could be the same people.

Probably. They'll probably be in contact through a telegram group.

Sorry, we keep interrupting the document. Yeah, we've ruined it.

That's fine. Point five, determining that migration does not solve the aging population crisis, but instead places further strain on European welfare systems and worsens the fundamental problem of low birth rates among the native population.

I was hoping we would get to birth rates.

Good, good.

I'm surprised it took all the way to number five.

Yeah.

I mean, are you even a proper racist if you're not concerned about the fecundity of ethnic women?

Probably. It's... I'm sorry.

They're very worried about being outbred.

Yes, but for some reason, all the women promoting this are not having like 20 children within like their first five years. So funny how they make exceptions for themselves all the time. One thing of note that I found at point two about the cultural, religious and linguistic diversity... Which, as I said before, fascists using diversity not entirely in bad faith, but also using it in bad faith.

Right, you know, all the different romance languages, but God forbid we have too much diversity.

Yeah, exactly. But that argument is so fucking stupid on its face. Because, first of all, is your faith in your own culture and language so incredibly weak that the presence of any other is a threat?

I mean, they do keep a pretty strict hold on French. They're very worried about it.

Yeah, yeah. The state is leaning on the scale in France. But the idea that the wonderful diversity of Romance languages is great and should be celebrated and protected. But where the fuck do you think all the words that begin with AL in Spanish come from?

It's not France. No. Or any word with SK in English. There's originally some Scandinavian origins there.

Like this isn't the first time anyone came to Europe. This isn't new.

Yeah.

People have been doing this for a minute. It's like, if you were really good at like, probably not, if you're really good at throwing, but you can definitely swim to North Africa from the European union pretty easily. Well, well, not easily be a pretty rough, uh, be a pretty rough trip, but.

Like between Spain and Morocco, it's, I think it's the most doable. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, uh, I'm sure a human could do it. People swim to France. No one knows why.

Uh, To avoid Spain?

I think if they're going from the United Kingdom, so it would be like if people do this as like a physical insurance challenge.

Okay. I thought they stopped letting people do it.

Quite possibly. I've not been following. I just remember when I was a kid, it would be a thing that people would do. They would like grease themselves and then swim the channel. Okay.

Well, I do respect the English fleeing away from England to France where there's at least a proper cuisine present.

Damn.

I'm sorry, James. I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

So have they gotten this ballot initiative or whatever you guys call it in Europe? Have they gotten this to be considered? Like, did they get enough support to force someone to consider this seriously?

Yes and no. But we'll get there. But I love that you're thinking ahead with me.

I just don't know how the government works over there, to be so honest.

We don't either.

I barely know how our government works.

Oh, barely, I think is the correct answer to that. Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't.

But I also still wanted to point out, back to the initiative, what about migrants who speak, air quotes, our languages or practice our quotes, our religions? Large parts of Africa speak English or French or even Portuguese in some areas.

Well, a lot of those people of African descent in those countries are from countries that were colonized. By the people who don't want them there.

Yeah.

We're like, why do you think there are so many African people in France? And well, they all speak French, don't they? How'd they get there? Consider your actions.

But that's exactly the point. Like, if they're in Africa and they already speak the language, do they make the cut?

Well, no, it sounds like under this initiative, no. So much of what they're putting forward is bad faith, right? They're like, oh, you know, it's about our cultural heritage, our heritage. Our linguistic heritage, it's like, okay, well, what about people who grew up in a French colony in Africa? Are they not French? No, they're not white.

No, but that is exactly where it's leading. And that's why, okay, they speak your language. They can have your religion. Is this enough?

Which is why this just sounds like the Nuremberg laws to me.

Like, honestly, we shouldn't even engage with these arguments because it just reduces any form of nuance or complexity to the barest fucking minimum.

They wrote racism by committee. They made a very fancy document to say we're very racist.

Oh, like I checked the comments on the Save Europe website when I was working on this and would not recommend.

Oh, I bet.

Yeah. Not great. But it's essentially just this bit. And we're going through like point three again, their demands. It's just grafting the great replacement theory, trying to get it like, considered under european law and if you consider how large europe is and how few people they would need to get this to be considered is absolutely baffling but we'll get there because i'm trying to keep some sort of structure here sorry that's on me now i love how engaged you are molly so don't apologize continue and also the whole notion of demographic replacement in in countries that barely exist for 200 years. Can you call this like your ancestral homeland?

There was no Italy 200 years ago. There was no Germany 200 years ago. Like what grand historical narrative are you pretending exists here?

Yeah, like if you're following that lead, then you must join my side with like, we need to be Gaelic again and just return to like our Celtic forefathers before the Romans dared to show up. And then at least there would be some historical accuracy to what they're claiming. But I dislike these people.

I think they're full of shit.

They very much are. So part three of the charter is about the demands that these people have of Europe and items they wish to see turned into law and policy. We therefore demand that the European Commission exercise its right of initiative under the treaties to propose and advance the following legislative and policy measures without delay. Article one. declare a formal moratorium on the new non-Western slash non-European immigration channels, including the suspension of asylum processes for economic migrants and applicants from safe countries of origin, the halting of new study and family reunification visas for non-Europeans, and the strict limitation of legal migration channels until social cohesion and cultural

continuity in the member states are restored.

That's fucking mental.

We've done this before. We've done racist immigration quotas before.

Yeah. And just like good luck at your universities taking those students from outside Europe. Let's see how that goes for you. Why do you think they're printing money?

Oh, that's a problem in Europe, too.

I know.

So in American universities, like they're highly reliant on the tuition dollars of international students. Is that the case in Europe as well?

Not to the American extent, but... Yeah, not to the same extent. But work at universities in Europe long enough and you'll be like, I see some of these folks.

European universities have largely also received budget cuts. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is also happening in Europe, but then to a lesser extent.

Yeah, I think the move towards the American model of education yeah sadly sadly upon all of us.

Yeah we're just four four or five years behind on america in cultural.

Waves well i don't know you're leading leading the charge here with this yeah.

Like even that haunted mannequin you have in the white house the bald the bald one the bald one uh i forgot his name.

Steven miller Yes, that one. Bald haunted doll. That's got to be him.

Yeah, I think you narrowed it right down.

Yeah, but as far as I know, even Stephen Miller hasn't put anything this explicitly great replacement into law. But I'm no expert on America.

Yeah, Miller will certainly say stuff that's very great replacement to you, right? Like on his ex account. But yeah, attempting to get this.

But in terms of like legislative proposal, I mean, this is giving like 1920s immigration law, right?

Yeah.

The sort of quotas that we set to keep essentially Jews out of the United States in the 20s and 30s.

Yeah.

The Chinese Exclusion Act, which was like how our immigration policy began in the United States.

Not great.

So, yeah, we have done this before. It was during the nadir of American race relations.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Germany wants to chime in as well as of recent. So going on a great path, guys.

Yeah, things are going pretty good there, right?

Yeah.

Politically right now.

Yes. No, no, it's absolutely great. So we have four more articles.

Sorry.

Article two. I'm sorry. Establish a fundamental reform of the existing EU migration and asylum systems during the time of this moratorium. including a total reform of the current migration framework, focusing on external border protection, physical and technological barriers at the frontiers, rapid screening, and immediate return mechanisms.

Are they going to build a wall around Europe?

Europe already kills more people with its border than we do. Like, Europe's physical border protection is the most murderous on the planet.

Oh, yeah.

They're not even very knowledgeable about the shit that they're racist about.

It's probably worse than you think, because what they mean with like the external border protection is also us. I think, James, we talked a little bit about this, about when Trump wanted to send migrants to Libya. But there are just sort of European control zones within Africa. Like a few weeks ago, there was the migrants storming the gates in Spain.

And that was in Ceuta.

Ceuta.

Thank you. But that's a Spanish territory, a Morocco territory.

What these people want is more Alan Curtis, right? Like more little dead children.

Yeah.

We just passed the 11th anniversary of his death, right? It was in September 2015. But either we've got far away from that, that you can con people into talking about hard borders again and not understanding that hard borders means dead children, or people remember that and they think that that was a good thing, that it'll stop. people coming if we just kill a few more little innocent kids like this because that's what Europe's physical borders do is that they drown children.

Oh yeah fortress Europe the mortar is exclusively that children because also in I think it was in Hungary from the top of my hat where they had just like these chain-linked fences with razor wire and there was also the lighthouse reports where they had people in literal dog kennels or some shit yeah Okay, let's rush a bit through this bit so we can go to the funny bits.

Yeah, so I just looked this up and I spoiled it for myself and now I know who wrote this. Okay. Come on!

Don't worry, guys. You'll get a live react from me, listeners.

Oh, I think there's stuff in here that Molly does not yet know, so.

Oh, no, I just got one little peek and I was like, I can't spoil it for myself anymore.

Okay, great. Then article three of the act ensure the systematic and accelerated return, re-migration in quotes, of illegally staying migrants, reject asylum seekers, and persons who have committed criminal offenses or pose a threat to public order, with full mutual recognition of return decisions across the Union and enhanced cooperation with third countries for readmission.

Wow, really at the Trump playbook on the last one.

I made some comments for myself here, and it's mostly like, how do you define this? How do you quote this? How do you force third countries to cooperate? It's like, you can't.

Well, this is a Trump fantasy, right? Like, we'll use our economic power to lean on you to do our crimes against humanity for us. It's the sort of might-makes-right approach to international relations. Our leaning on other countries hasn't gone so well, right? It ain't going to go better for the EU.

No, because most of the countries that we send them to don't want to engage in this process or don't want them back. So how are you going to force it unless we want to build some island in the middle of the Mediterranean to put all the stateless people?

Don't give them any ideas.

Making a bunch of people stateless is not a really bad sign.

No, that's a sign of a healthy system.

Let's not proceed tragedy.

Yeah, never, never in the history. Establish a harmonized EU-wide framework for broader remigration, including voluntary and incentivized remigration measures for non-European migrants who are unintegrated or constitute a serious cultural or financial burden to member states.

Unintegrated.

Cultural burden.

They just don't look like I think they should look.

Yeah.

To support the restoration of demographic balance.

This is obviously someone who's just really worried about Western culture. Definitely not someone who's been a well-known neo-Nazi for more than a decade.

Ah, now I know which name you read. That person is an identitarian, Molly. Learn the difference.

Yeah, his involvement with the Aryan Jugend in Austria, there's nothing to do with this.

Molly, are you really saying that Nazis come from Austria? Please, read a history book.

Name me one example.

Exactly. Nothing bad politically ever came out of Austria.

Maybe we should replace them all. Maybe they're onto something here.

Maybe the replacement is going to be great.

If we replace them with literally anything. And the last one, because... Jesus fucking Christ. Remove social welfare incentives and benefits that function as pool factors for migration, including restrictions in accordance with union law on access by non-citizens and recent migrants to selected welfare benefits and support systems, so as to reduce incentives for further migration, lessen the burden on European taxpayers, and encourage re-migration.

Oh yeah, people are just coming there for the welfare because it's like really good. They're risking drowning in the sea because they really want to participate in the social welfare system. And it's not because they're fleeing other forms of violence.

No, no, they're paying money to the smugglers so they can get to our welfare.

Yeah, so they can be on the dole because it's such a fucking great life.

And I'm sure there's no ulterior motive here where these people actually want to cut welfare for everyone because they also probably just hate poor people.

Oh, definitely, definitely. There is some very rich people involved in this as well.

You don't say.

Yeah. I do say.

Shocking.

It's an American plot twist. So I think this is a good point to do a very good impromptu ad break because this took a bit longer than expected.

That's my fault.

This is what you get with me and Molly. This is fucking chaos.

This is honestly why I do it. But I think we all need a palate cleanser.

Yeah.

Enjoy these ads.

Yeah.

Probably not as horrible as the Save Europe Act.

Oh, you don't know some rich people. People don't get rich without selling shit from advertisements.

That's true.

You don't know where that money's going. Yeah.

Let it be dick pills.

Fingers crossed.

And we're back. Cleansed from horrible shit. That will continue onward. So near the end of May this year, the two co-founders of the Save Europe Act submitted the European Citizens Initiative. Those names are Martin Sellner.

Yeah.

Molly's BFF, judging by her reaction. And my favorite country person, Eva Vlaardinger.

Okay. I haven't heard of her. I'm looking forward to learning about, say that Dutch name again. Yeah.

Can we take a second pass at that surname?

Take a charge of that.

Laardingerbroek.

I'm not saying that.

This is a language he has said we have to fight to preserve.

Yeah.

Dutch is such a beautiful, beautiful language. It doesn't sound like a German with a terrible head injury had 17 beers.

Sorry how did you know the origins of my beautiful language.

This is like the origin.

It's still better than english because that's just like english french and scandinavian and gay like all thrown into a blunder.

Yeah no it's our indigenous language that we.

Uh yeah we're native americans It's our indigenous language.

Indigenous British people, a country that famously was never colonized or received migration from anywhere until about 1998. That was the first time that was adulterated. Because of woke.

Famously true. Because of woke. It does get me to another point because, like, James, when I texted you about this, you already said, like, people will not be able to pronounce her name. And I jokingly said to you, like, we could just call her Ava Brown.

Ava Brown shirt.

No, Ava Brown. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Hitler's girlfriend, I know.

But I will not do that.

So if Vlardinger broke.

Put some more throat into it.

I will not do that because, well, in part because libel laws exist, but much more importantly, I think it's an unfair comparison. The original Eva Brau was just Hitler's wife, and she had very little to do with politics or policy or governance or anything else. She was asked or instructed to leave anytime business or politics came up. And Vlaardingerbroek is much more involved in the political discourse and, as the Save Europe Act shows, in theorizing and crafting policy.

So a much more apt but far less funny comparison would be to call her Eva Goebbels or Eva Heydrich. But that's just less funny, so I will just call her Eva. We'll get to her.

Yeah. That's why I never heard of Eva. Martin Selner, just for the, well, I was so excited that this is fucking Martin Selner. He was involved with the American alt-right 10 years ago. There was an attempt to sort of create bridges between the American sort of burgeoning sort of mainstreaming of neo-Nazis into the sort of political right.

There was attempts to merge with the identitarian movements of France and I guess in Austria where Martin Selner is from. Identity Europa was modeled after Generation Identity in France, which Martin Sellner also modeled his group off of in Austria. And so there were some connections there, like in 2017 when, oh, that horrible bitch from Canada, Lauren Southern. Lauren Southern got detained because she and Martin Sellner were on a boat that was like trying to drown migrants in the sea.

God, I'd forgotten about that.

So, yeah, no, we know we know this man. He's trying to drown migrants.

In the sea.

Yeah, well, that answers my question about that. What they meant by divorce is.

But on the bright side, Molly, I do think Martin Selner looks like a looks-maxing Richard Spencer.

Well, I don't know if you've seen Richard Spencer lately. It's not hard to look better than that. Looking like shit, brother.

I missed my weekly Zoom call with him, so I'm not sure what's going on.

Yeah, divorce did not treat him well.

Okay, good. He deserves it. Okay. The European Citizens Initiative. At the time of writing, it obtained about 740,000 signatures.

Oh, that's more than I would have preferred.

Well, there's sort of good news on that front later. The system itself is less known among both Europeans and Americans. And the rejection of the Safe Europe Act is incredibly simple and dumb once you realize how it works. The ECI is pretty much a mechanism for some diluted form of direct democracy within the European Union. ECI proposals that are accepted call directly on the European Council to propose a legal act, usually a directive or legislation, on certain conditions.

One of them is that the petition reaches one million signatures.

Oh, so they didn't make it. So we don't have to take this seriously at all.

We do, unfortunately.

Oh, we do.

When you've got three quarters of a million people signing on to something as openly racist as this shit, I think you do have to.

But like, it's not going to get voted on.

No, we'll get there.

Okay. Explain Europe to me.

Horribad. So, point two, that those signatures are from at least seven different member states with minimum amounts for each of those seven or more states.

That makes sense. You can't just get like a million racist Croatians design it.

No, exactly.

No offense to Croatia. You just do have a lot of neo-Nazis.

Don't look into their streets. On top, there's also a minimum amount of signatures that's needed per member state to ensure there's broad support for an idea across the EU. For example, you cannot have all the votes coming from Germany and only six votes from other member states. The minimums are based on the number of EU parliament members multiplied by 750. For example, the Dutch must deliver 20,445 votes of this million, while Luxembourg only needs 4,230. So just like some proportional representation there. Right.

So all the European Union member states have to kind of be on board. Yeah.

Or at least enough of them. Yeah.

Right. Like you can't get something through just because two or three states are being nasty. That makes sense.

Yes. And specifically because it is directed, it doesn't have to go through like your national parliament and to be then like thrown upwards towards the EU. This is directly between the citizens. and the European Commission.

I guess I don't really know what the EU can and cannot do. How much power would something passed by at the EU level have to change the immigration laws of a country?

I'm not smart enough to answer that.

In a universe where the EU does say, we're signing on to this, this is real, we're doing it, does that supersede the immigration laws at the national level of the member states? Can this even be something, I guess, is my question. I don't know how the EU works, to be so honest.

In a worst case scenario, how we see this happening would be that it would get passed. I suppose that then some form of like that legislation or directive will be conjured up from the bowels of coccitis or whatever. And then it would have to be voted on within the EU parliament. And should that for some reason happen, then I think that would be a not insignificant amount of power that the EU holds over individual member states.

Because we also do that for trade and for regulating things across European borders. Like even for us, how the EU functions exactly is shrouded in mystery.

It's a great mystery.

Yeah.

They cooperate on migration, right? Like you see this with the way the EU places its borders, the way that the EU kind of takes something of a, united front on like how it deals with things and you saw this like in the beginnings of the syrian civil war right you saw europe cooperating first to to in some cases receive syrian migrants and in many cases to repel them violently but like states also still would have sovereignty but like the exact nature of their laws it's not like the eu can dictate what it takes to be a british or a Yeah, sorry. Yeah, and so did I.

But you can't say to France, like, you can't admit any more immigrants.

Yeah, or, like, we are obliging you to remove the citizenship or to, like, de-Frenchify these people.

To outlaw the speaking of other languages.

As far as I'm aware. Yeah, like, there could be, like, if it passes through the EU parliament, then I guess there would be, like, a set of principles that the states would have to try and adhere to.

Yes.

With their own policies. Which they're not having trouble doing. Like, they found enough racists in Germany recently, apparently.

Like, uh, Oh, but we have them in the Netherlands as well. Don't worry.

Yeah, Britain's not immune from that either. We'll show people to here.

But to get back to Molly, I do think that to a certain extent, the EU could put diplomatic or economic pressure on member states to enforce something like this or to nudge them.

Or like obliquely, like you would have to comply with certain, I don't know, like language restrictions on things that are involved in trade. And that would sort of obliquely enforce restrictions at the national level.

Yes, but also I think this would heavily strain relations between the EU and the member states because it is, I don't want to call it authoritarian, but it is a power, like a supernatural power that's sort of going to tell countries what to do. And I can't imagine if it is something as vile as this, that that would go over well.

It's just, it's so funny to me that the nationalists we have today, there's no nationalism there. Like a true nationalist would find this abhorrent.

I agree with you completely.

Our nationalists can't even do it right.

But it's only nationalism if you hate certain people. Otherwise, it's just being a rhino. I think you call them in the United States.

A nino.

So to get back to the ECI. In the original treaty that formalized this mechanism, it states several conditions that the proposed act must adhere to before it passes. An initiative must be within the legal constraints of the EU. obviously, and the initiative must not be, and I quote, manifestly abusive, frivolous, or vexatious.

Okay, is this not manifestly abusive, frivolous, and vexatious? Yeah.

I read those sentences as legal code for no bullshit, please.

Yeah, but this is bullshit.

Yeah, this is bullshit.

Yeah.

This is manifestly abusive.

Yeah, it's the abusive one. I think they don't want you doing one that's like so-and-so is ugly and has a big nose or whatever they want.

But this is vexatious and frivolous.

Yeah, it's fucking vexing me, I can tell you. I'm vexed.

Well, then it's good that we're slowly getting to the funnier parts of this. One of the more important things that were in this statement from the European Commission, because usually they all have to rule after the 1 million votes has been met. They already ruled on this, but not on its merits, but on the legality of it.

And I'll be quoting directly from the document here. Article 6.3 of the ECI states that the initiative is not manifestly contrary to the values of the Union as set out in Article 2 and the rights enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Essentially, whatever people want to pass and sign on to, it can't violate European law. I think this is important because proponents of the Safe Europe Act will say that This petition was denied due to its politics and thus it's an anti-democratic ruling.

Oh, I'm being canceled. I'm being canceled. No, you just didn't read the rules.

Yeah, exactly. There is like a Twitter clip somewhere of Ava and Martin discussing this. It's like, oh, this is just anti-democratic. And no, no, it isn't, Ava. You're wrong. a legal philosopher, you're smart enough to understand this.

You've never read de Tocqueville.

Yeah, I'll say that. Like, she at least has credentials, you know?

Right, because this is disingenuous.

They know.

But they also know that it is very effective to say, we're being silenced because of how right we are. But these mobs of people, the ones we think need to be brought under control, they're stopping us from doing this good thing. That's a very effective form of this particular kind of rhetoric. Doing it wrong and pretending you're being silenced is more effective than actually doing it right.

Yeah.

And easier.

That is the very scary part of the Save Europe Act. Because in the end, this is much more about influencing the discourse and pushing the overtime window than it is about anything else.

Right. If you can get the EU to even look at your petition, you have legitimized that this is something that belongs in the political sphere.

Right. Yeah.

You've moved it from Stormfront to in the middle of the Overton window.

Like you're not just like a little fucking piss boy on a ship screaming and crying because you want migrants to drown in the sea. You're being considered by the European Union.

Yes. And for now, they've just tested its legal viability with European law. And we're like, nope, get out. Which like the fascists immediately claim as some sort of anti-democratic political violence against them. Yeah.

We're being silenced.

Probably by the Jews. I mean, knowing Martin, I don't know if he says it out loud anymore.

He used to.

Like even in the statement, like the commission does not analyze the policy merits at the stage of the eligibility check. So in layman's terms, the proposed act is incompatible with existing legal mumbo jumbo.

Yeah.

I can file any lawsuit I want in court. I could file a lawsuit saying that you put a spell on my dog that made him racist and But I could file that in court and the judge is not going to rule on the facts of the case. He's just going to throw it out because that's not a real. You know what I mean? Like the ruling at that early stage is just that, well, this isn't real. This doesn't there's no there's no standing. There's no jurisdiction. This is not an actionable matter. So they're not saying whether this is good or bad. They're just saying this can't be here because they didn't meet the legal requirements.

You're so sick, Molly. I appreciate that.

I read a lot of I read a lot of lawsuits that are a lot like this petition.

Yeah, well, given that the Alex Jones lawsuit existed.

No, but when you throw something out at this early stage and you have people say like, oh, I'm being denied access to the system. No, it's that the system looked at what you produced and said, this is fake.

You have to wear a yellow sweater in order to access this bit. You're not wearing a yellow sweater. Therefore, you cannot come in.

You're not being silenced. You're just not participating in the process properly.

For shits and giggles. If I read between the lines, I think the commission itself was also a bit shocked at it because in the same press release about this, they state, the initiative must contain a genuine proposal and not be used as a vehicle for offensive or caricatural messages, which I think is pretty sassy insofar as legal sassy goes.

They're essentially saying, the fuck you're doing is how I interpret it. There is, however, another threshold that they fail to meet, which is that Anyone can sign an online petition.

Uh-oh, these weren't valid signatures.

Yes, there is no stopping you, the listener, from going to a website right now. Sign in and, you know, sign the Safe Europe Act.

But I'm not a citizen of the European Union.

But you can still sign it in a show of support.

But that wouldn't count towards the one million signatures that they need.

We're coming close because different states could require different identification signatures. It can't be 10 people in a basement continuously making new email addresses and resigning the petition. That doesn't work.

So how do they go about validating those? That sounds complex.

Not through how they're doing it right now. Because all you need is a name that can be checked with an email address that can be checked.

Oh, so they're not validating them?

No, not in a way that would meet the criteria set by the European Union.

So they knew they weren't doing this properly because that was never the point.

It was never the point.

Because if you were running an actual sort of political campaign to get this thing advanced in a very serious way, you would have been collecting valid signatures that you would be able to validate if a legal challenge was brought. And they didn't do that. Yeah.

Yes.

And you'd also put in safeguards to prevent like people from outside the EU for voting on this or signing it.

So this was never sincere.

Absolutely not. That's shocking. I am shocked and appalled.

A Nazi playing in my face?

Well, it gets better, Molly, because now there's a bunch of names that I'm sure you'll recognize.

Oh, yes.

But there's also been American far-right agitators who have promoted this on Twitter.

How many people signed it with the name Rudolph Hess? At least 10, right? Do you have a list of the signatures? I would love to look at them.

I'll send you the website in a bit, but I'm not sure. But one of the very cool Americans who promoted this was Benny Johnson.

No shit.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah. He had one of the co-founders on his bigot cast and even tweeted a link to the petition. I don't know Benny Johnson, but I'm going to guess that his audience is largely American. So yeah, not really sure how much good signature-wise that has done, but we can't rule out that there's a bunch of Americans who have signed it. And therefore, we don't know how many of those 750,000 are legitimate.

I would guess not a lot.

Genuinely, I don't know. I also don't think there's any way to find out.

Exactly, because if they did not collect them in a way that could be validated, they're not going to be. This was a waste of time because it was never the point.

Well, it wasn't a waste of time. It's just it's not doing what it says on the tin.

Yeah, collecting valid signatures was never actually the goal or they would have collected them in a way that would have been functional.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, I can sign it right now. It's right at the top of the page. Sign now.

Please do not do that.

I'm not going to do that.

Thank you. Besides Benny, there were also others who did that, including like friend of the pod, Jack Posobiec. Oh, cool. And Joey Manarino, who tweeted, everyone, no matter where they are from, should go and sign this act. The momentum for re-migration is so real and it could absolutely be pulled off if there is unity. Sign the act to save Europe. End quote.

I wonder if Greg Bovino signed it. He's been over there doing some re-migration chats.

I'm sure he would enthusiastically sign it, but I didn't see him.

Yeah.

There's also like Lucy White, a Restore Britain candidate who also signed it.

But she knows she doesn't live in the EU.

One can assume.

One can assume. And also not to forget the worst thing that came out of apartheid South Africa. Yeah. Elon Musk, who also shared a Save Europe video.

Bold statement.

Yes. Oh, wow.

Victor Orban signed it. That was shocking. Yeah.

No surprises there.

Really surprised there. Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow. Like, if Midlife Crisis Edison tweets about this, then we can safely assume that it has reached at least millions of people worldwide. But that still doesn't matter in terms of, like, the act being passed because, again... No way to validate this.

I just don't think that a lot of Europeans are watching. Not a lot of Europeans are watching Benny Johnson.

Yeah.

I mean, not a lot of Americans are watching it. Not a lot of people are watching it.

Nobody should watch him. But this is what upsets me because this is so incredibly doomed from the start. If you look at it like this is seeing Bruce Wayne's parents walk at the beginning of a Batman movie or like. Spider-Man's Uncle Ben or Kenny from fucking South Park. Like, you know it's going to fail. You know they're going to die and for some reason these people have, like, taped them over the corpses over mannequins and just parade them around as if there's still a possibility.

It's, ah.

But they are, it's sort of, continuing to advance the agenda that this is something that is up for legitimate debate.

Right.

That preserving Western culture is a real political topic for debate, right? That like we need to have debates on the floor of the parliament about whether or not we should all be speaking one language.

From the top of my head, I didn't check this. I think Europe has like 280 million people, probably more. And You're so nationalistic yet you want to use this shortcut of one million people to bypass like.

Your own national sovereignty. That's what I'm saying. Like this is.

Yeah.

What kind of nationalism involves subverting national sovereignty? You fucking cucks.

This is what gets me because it is working in terms of like public discourse and normalizing remigration.

Yeah. it definitely is.

And that's Elon Musk's primary goal right now is just normalizing this level of Hitlerian discourse.

Yeah, which he has successfully done, right?

Yeah, he's doing it every day.

Yeah.

He's doing like race and IQ posting constantly.

Yeah, nothing screams high IQ as much as talking nonstop about IQ. Like, everyone who has to tell you that they're so fucking smart is probably not.

Yeah, so.

Well, that's why none of his rockets blow up, because he's so smart.

Don't look it up.

I'm sure he spent a great deal of time designing those rockets personally as well, not posting 18 hours a day.

Well, I'll respect Jeff Bezos' rockets just because they look more original.

I'll never respect Jeff Bezos, and no one can make me.

Fair point.

When I picture Jeff Bezos, the only thing I picture... Is him on vacation with that like deep fee, like unbuttoned dress shirt with the roast iguana? That's the only thing I think of when I think of Jeff Bezos. It's him holding a roasted iguana.

Molly, I'm trying to focus on a podcast here. Stop selling me this graphic, erotic picture of Jeff Bezos. That's not why we're here. We can do that on the other podcast.

I think I'm combining two pictures in my mind. The iguana picture, he doesn't have the unbuttoned vacation shirt.

Wow.

I guess I'm just inventing an image in my mind.

Yeah, Molly's headcanon.

But the iguana pic is scary.

Well, the good thing is you can now invent it on Grog.

Cursed fan art.

No, it'll just make child porn of Jeff Bezos.

Yeah, his Alive Girl comments or texts.

I forgot about I Love You Alive Girl.

Yeah.

Ah, soulless ghouls, the bunch of them.

So the signatures were fake?

Yeah, pretty much. Could be 10 people in a basement with like a supercomputer just generating clicks. We don't know, but I don't think it'll even reach the million. But even if it did, then the signatures would come in question. And yeah, just absolutely doomed.

Well, actually, I hope they have to raise a bunch of money from a bunch of fucking rubes to hire someone to validate the signatures, which they won't be able to do. I would love that.

There will be a lawyer out there who will. I mean, if I had a law degree, I would take it on just to get that money.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Someone's going to take this on. So, yeah, by all means, start a fundraising campaign. Get money out of the pockets of the dumbest racists in the world.

Go for it. I should have gone for that law degree. But anyway, I think we already discussed solar schools and we're going to be discussing more of them. But first, I think the soulless ghouls that support this podcast. Can I say that?

Yeah, I think so.

You don't work here.

Perfect. And we're back and we're exchanging the soulless ghouls for humanoid husks filled with unending appetite for atrocities. I think we said all the nice things about the act itself, even though I wish I could have said less about it. Unfortunately, this is just the Rivendell stop of our quest to destroy the ring, and we have yet to meet the spawns that have emerged from Minos, Morgul, and Gorgoroth.

Deep cut.

Yeah, yeah. The three people that understand those references, this one's for you. So, first, we have the person you were giggling about, Bollie. co-founder and hipster Nazi impersonator Martin Sellner.

I haven't thought about Martin Sellner in years. I'm so surprised to see him here.

Who could have imagined that the country who produced the most iconic Nazi would once again produce a Nazi?

The original. The original.

At least it's from the original sourcing material, you know?

Right, so by under EU laws, he can really be a Nazi, right? Because, you know, it's like champagne.

Sure, yeah, it has to come from.

It comes from the original source.

Exactly. If it's a Nazi stemming from anywhere in North Austria, then we have to call them identitarians. Yep, sparkling identitarianism. Yeah, that's the brand distinction. So, Selder seems to have been pretty far right all of his life, becoming involved in nationalist politics when he was a teenager. And being part of the Austrian neo-Nazi scene. So before we get into the good stuff, I want to read a small paragraph from an article inside Campus. It was published in 2017 before all the significant shit was released. But I had to read this paragraph, so you'll have to listen to it.

Martin Sellner, who has a bachelor's degree in philosophy and dropped out of law school, is something like the Justin Bieber and Raynard Langhans of the new right-wing radicalism in one person. A handsome young man with neatly trimmed hair and a dreamy look. And a creative inventor of media effective, perhaps even somewhat dangerous, protests.

You know, maybe it's... I don't know if it's discouraging or comforting to know that your press do that, too. The European press does that same thing. He's really racist, but in like kind of a sexy way. Like, why do they do that?

What if Hitler was hot?

He washed his hair and I thought he would be dirty.

Like, he does look like a hipster. I mean, I'll give them that one.

I mean, it's like that New York Times article. You probably remember this, James. It was in 2017 about Tony Hobater, one of the second in command of the traditional worker party.

And it was like, yeah.

Just going on and on about like how interesting and just what this interesting working class man kind of handsome like he's a nazi.

That's a nazi yeah that's yeah this mysterious exotic nazi or like the amount of like uh richard spent the things but they were like but he wears a waistcoat did you know he does his own bow tie.

That's a nazi.

Uh yeah that is a type of article that uh It's just like the fentanyl thing. You just can't stop people doing it.

Well, I would be impressed with any two-year-old being able to do his own bow tie.

Actually, I don't think Richard Spencer can tie a bow tie.

Not anymore. Anyway, back to Martin Sellner. At the age of 17, he and another person placed stickers on a synagogue in Baden-by-Wien. Stickers with the text LEGALIZE IT with the letters AJ near it. AJ in this case stands for Arische Jugend. Aryan youth. And other stickers portrayed as swastika. Wow.

That's illegal there.

Yes.

Very state to state. So like in Virginia, it actually would be illegal to place a swastika on a synagogue. It's a classic felony. But I think in Austria and Germany, it's like really illegal.

In Germany, any form of Nazi glorification.

You're not supposed to be doing that. They're kind of sensitive about it.

You could probably find it on YouTube, but there's clips of people just even for fun, doing like a Roman salute in German public and be arrested for it. So, yeah, unfortunately, he was a minor because under European law, like under 17, you're still a minor. So I think that's why he got off pretty scot-free. He had to do like, I think, 100 hours of community service.

And he learned his lesson.

Yes.

Right?

Well, he didn't do anything wrong because this was a response to the conviction of David Irving, a British Holocaust denier. Yeah.

Oh, God.

There it is.

For anyone not watching, Molly's almost in tears.

There it is.

We're hitting the highlights here, aren't we?

So he doesn't think the Holocaust happened. Because that's what David Irving was in trouble for.

Yeah, I think Martin has genuine questions about... what happened during the Holocaust in the same way that Alex Jones had questions about Sandy Hook.

He's just asking questions.

Yes.

Unfortunately, he can't read because those questions have been answered.

You only need to open your eyes to see the answers.

He lived in Austria. You could go to one of the camps.

Well, he actually did, Molly, because... Oh, no. At the tender age.

Yeah, I bet that went well.

And he behaved very normal there, right?

Well, it wasn't a camp, but at the age of 19, he did help organize ways to hinder liberal demonstrations and pilgrimages to Wehrmacht soldiers, brave sites, and hold memorial services for them.

Yes.

He self-professes that he was a neo-Nazi until 2011. He should have been 22 around that time. As of 2017, he's also banned from carrying weapons. After an incident where he pepper sprayed an alleged far-left activist during a fight in Vienna. Which is funny because generally carrying weapons is already illegal here.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

So he double gets to not wear weapons, I suppose.

He'll get punished twice.

Oh, that would be good. Okay, Molly, brace yourself. In early 2018, Martin Sellner received around $ 1, 700, 1,500 euros, roughly from Brenton Tarrant. Brenton Tarrant.

Received from?

Yes, received from.

What year?

Early 2018.

So before the Christchurch mosque shooting.

Yes.

That's very good.

Yes, yeah.

So his ideas about immigration... And presumably Islam were pretty similar, I guess. And he was just showing support for a guy whose ideas were very similar to his own. And Martin is carrying out these same ideas by writing this stupid little petition. And what Britton Tarrant did was he murdered more than 50 people in two mosques. Yeah, it's...

Very good. That's a cool friend to have.

Yeah, it's always a good sign.

It gets worse because.

It gets worse.

I looked it up, but apparently Tarrant was planning this attack for at least Two years. Self-proclaimed, by the way. So take that however you will. But that means.

So in the planning phases of this mass murder, he thought, part of my plan is going to be giving Martin Sellner $ 1, 500. Yes. He should be banned from New Zealand.

We should exile him to the sun.

Because New Zealand is pretty sincere about their sort of quarantining policy. the existence of Brenton Tarrant. Like, it's illegal to possess this manifesto there. Like, they should ban Martin Sellner from the country.

Tarrant doesn't strike me as a very wealthy person.

That's a significant amount of money for him.

Yeah, highly committed to Sellner.

It was, and it was also, like, a significant amount of money for Sellner because most donations were, like, on the high end, like, 100 to 100 euros.

That should have been a career ender.

Like, anyone is free to send me money, but if someone like this would send me money... and I was very committed to not being called a Nazi, this would be a good time for some introspection.

Yeah, if somebody who really thinks you're doing a great job and you have all the same ideas, but what he does with those ideas is one of the largest mass murders in recent years.

Yeah, it's... I don't know.

I think you got to think about that. I think you got to think about that.

Yeah, yeah. To give you pause for thought.

Luckily, Molly... Sellner did nothing else to further incriminate himself.

And then he was normal after that, right?

Yeah, because it's not just this donation that is a connection between the two of them. I'm quoting from a piece by the Austrian outlet ORF. Sellner and Tarrant had exchanged praise via email. If you ever come to Vienna, we have to go for a coffee or a beer, says Sellner. The same goes for you if you ever come to Australia or New Zealand. We have people in both countries who would like to host you in their home, the Australian replied.

We?

According to ZIB2, the last email exchange took place in July 2018. One day later, Tarrant booked vehicles and accommodation in Austria. Whether the two actually met each other was, according to that article, being investigated at the time. I haven't been able to find confirmation because Tarrant is silent on the issue.

And that was a few months before the Christchurch shooting.

A year.

You said it was late 2018?

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, like nine months, yeah.

But anyway, there's a non-zero chance that the two have actually shook hands and met. There's no way to confirm it unless one of them confirms it, which I don't think will happen either way.

But still, anything short of a vigorous public disavowal is very incriminating.

I don't even think that would be enough.

No, it wouldn't.

It wouldn't be very convincing to me. but he hasn't even done it.

No.

So this is just further evidence that this petition of his is violence.

Yeah.

This is on the sort of spectrum of the same kind of violence, and it is in furtherance of advancing the normalization of that kind of violence.

Yes.

And also like different kinds of violence, because even though they mentioned like giving people incentives to remigrate, not everyone is going to do that.

There is no peaceful way to create an ethnostate. If your goal is an ethnostate, you understand from the outset that there will be mass bloodshed because there's no peaceful ethnostate. It's never happened, and it never will, and they know that. And I think, was it Heimbach or Spencer who admitted to that under oath? During the United Right civil trial, they were talking. They're like, so when you say, you know, we're going to have a peaceful ethnostate, I think it must have been Heimbach. I think it was from the TWP charter office. you know, about creating an ethnostate through peaceful means. And he's like, yeah, I know that's not real.

Yeah, that's not a thing. I mean, like, at least Selner is pretty open about this, right? Like, Selner was one of the major hosts of the the remigration conference that happened in may of this year that was still this year right yeah yeah the portugal one in portugal yeah like where they explicitly like talked with greg bovino about like how they wanted to do this kind of shit in europe i i've wrote about this at a time but like you can you can see they made the regular media stand outside uh and then harass them with a drone while they're in the car park but bovino did do some interviews with some right-wing blogs I think it seems like he did one interview and multiple people translated it because I don't think he was talking

to like Breton nationalists specifically but like you can see them openly discussing this like and this is May of 26 right this is Rene Good and Alex Preti have been killed a few months before like like this is when ICE and CBP were doing their violence most openly and you can see these people including Selma personally like Literally clapping for this and saying, yeah, this is what we need. We need more shit like this.

It's just disgusting. Vile doesn't begin to cut it. Really?

We know what mass deportation looks like. There's no way to do it peacefully or bloodlessly.

No.

Yeah.

But that is like, there is an attempt to make some sort of veneer possible where that could be. If you look at how they phrased everything in the act.

Economic incentives, right?

Like, fuck you. Yep. I looked at this like an anthropologist because that is one part of my background. And even if you're going to say, okay, everyone's going to accept those incentives, then we're still talking about people having to move, families broken apart, communities broken apart, people having to upend their entire lives, including the lives of their children.

And why did they come here in the first place? What were they fleeing that they risked their lives to come here in the first place? They're just ignoring an avalanche of different pieces of structural violence. But that's exactly where I'm getting at. Even if you could delude yourself into.

Thinking that these people will leave voluntarily, then think of the violence it is in and of itself of having to uproot so many lives and start all over again from square one at another place. Even if no one resisted and everyone accepted that with stoicism... it's still an inherently violent act. Yeah.

It tears communities apart. It tears families apart. There's no way to do this, which is not deliberately hurting people for the crime, in that case, of not being white.

Right. And they're not just talking about They're talking about everyone who isn't white because they said legal and illegal immigration, you know, culturally threatening, culturally disruptive. They're just talking about people they don't think belong. And some of those people they don't think belong have been here for a very long time.

Yeah. And they don't belong because of their skin color.

So you can't there's nowhere to send them. There's nowhere to send them back to even if they would agree to your terms.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like you can see it in the language of like, uh, when we were looking at that, the tour that they did around Europe, right? Like the open use of the Reconquista language that similar words in other Iberian languages, right? Like, like the idea that like, we will violently expel these people crusader style. Like the, the idea that like, uh, Spain without Islam is not something fundamentally different to what it is today. Right? Like that, that exchange has not happened.

for as long as there has been Spain and before. Right.

There's no, there's no authentic Spain to return to. The thing you're imagining was never real.

Exactly. Yeah. It's laughable to suggest that like, you can have some kind of, uh, like, like Spain was pure Christendom and, you know, it's silly. It really bums me out to the fucking, I mean, I know that the Catalan right has become particularly relevant and Catalan identitarianism is a big fucking problem. Uh, but like, it wasn't always that way. And, uh, It's sad to see, like, I think those people have already existed, but they look like everywhere else. They're gaining more of a foothold now.

Great stuff.

Yeah.

Let's go to some funny stuff. Yeah.

Give us the good stuff.

Yeah. We need that.

Yeah.

To catch up real quick, like, I think it's safe to say that Perrin wasn't radicalized further during his last known contact with Selnar and the day he committed his atrocities.

Yeah.

Like, if you're European and there's someone in your orbit who thinks positively of the Save Europe Act, highlight this part. Because two weeks after the shooting of the Christchurch, the Austrian police raided Martin Sellner's house due to his connections with Tarrant. However, the police waited 12 minutes before Sellner opened the door. They were knocking at his door for 12 minutes. There is suspicion that he was warned beforehand about the impending raid as... During those 12 minutes, he was deleting emails, screenshots, and other proofs of his connection with Tarrant.

And they don't have subpoena power to get those emails from somewhere else? Deleting an email doesn't make it gone.

It doesn't disappear, yeah.

And honestly, at that point, deleting the email, you should have been charged with destruction of evidence.

Yeah, if the cops are literally knocking on your door and you're deleting emails, A, those emails aren't disappearing.

In America, they charge you with that.

But in America, they wouldn't wait 12 minutes.

No, they wouldn't knock.

Yeah, your door wouldn't be a door anymore.

You would wake up at 3.45 a.m. and then they would already be happy. your computer in their hands.

Yeah.

Are you sure? Because he is white.

I don't know.

If it weren't like this, I think they would do a 4 a.m. no-knock.

Ah. Cops... They love the 4 a.m.

No-knock.

Okay. Yeah.

I guess they probably don't do that in Europe because not everyone has guns. That's why they do it in America, because everyone has guns.

Yeah.

Well, they do it because they enjoy doing it.

But they say it's because we all have guns.

Guns provide them with a justification, yeah. I'm sure it's part of the reason. But there was an investigation within the Austrian Justice Department to see if they could find out who it was that tipped him off because it can be a coincidence that the very same day he was deleting all that shit.

And did they not subpoena the emails from the provider? Because you can get those. They're not gone.

I haven't read about that. It didn't come up in what I saw. I'm not sure. Around the same time, though, his travel permit to the US was canceled. And therefore, he could not meet with his fiancee, Brittany Pettibone.

That's right.

Yeah.

They're married.

They're married. They have a child.

He's married to an American far-right conspiracy theorist.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. White nationalist and conspiracy theorist. Also does some TreadWife content. Because, of course.

Well, what else would she do now? All their avenues are closed.

Yeah.

And I forgot this bit. I think this might also help you understand, Molly. Later in 2019, then, Austrian police expanded the searches of Selner's property. However, Selner did file several complaints and a judge ruled that multiple actions taken by Austrian authorities were deemed to be unlawful.

Oh, that's right. You guys have like civil rights and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah. And look what it got us. Maybe the Safe Europe Act isn't so bad after all. Maybe we need to get less civil rights.

I'm not signing on to that.

I can't help but be cynical. Well, to sum up everything about Martin Sellner, an uncool person would not have a beer with him. I know.

And this is like if Richard Spencer was trying to get a constitutional amendment passed.

Yeah.

You don't have to look further into it. You're like, oh, that's some like dumb Nazi stuff. This is like a washed up Nazi from 10 years ago trying to get back in the news by doing some more dumb Nazi stuff. Like, you don't need to take it seriously. I mean, I need to take it seriously on a broader scale. I mean, you don't need to engage seriously in the text of the petition because it is not sincere. But like, as soon as I saw his name, I was like, oh, that's a washed up Nazi from 10 years ago.

He's not washed up anymore.

He's been trying very hard with this re-migration stuff to like, to like glom on to this sort of Trumpist.

Like this is a known quantity. This isn't a mystery.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, we're not like, oh, this guy has some real concerns about his community and neighborhood.

No. And this man is engaging with the political process in a sincere and earnest way. No, it's a Nazi.

Yeah.

Even though he says, like, he might have not been a neo-Nazi if the identitarian movement had existed when he was younger. I don't believe that.

The identitarians are white supremacist fascist movement.

I love that. If we'd had another thing to call my Nazism, I wouldn't have done the Nazi shit because that's explicitly illegal.

Yeah.

Yeah, that swastika stuff I used to be into. I still believe all the same stuff, but I wouldn't have used the embarrassing branding if I'd been smarter.

Yeah.

Fuck off.

Yeah.

And after this, we're going to speak of the fascist counterpart, the fascist Barbie doll, Eva Lardingerbroek. Oh, great. Or Eva Heidrich, if that's easier on the tongue.

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions.

Thanks for listening.

The Save Europe Act and the Bad Faith Nazis Who Created It

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