How to Master Sales Psychology and Building Creatrhub with Olubukola Sogbolu (Part 1)

0:00 Working in that kind of environment, you know, lane to never give up, you lane that all you need to do is pivot. You don't feel because failure is just a step to success. So instead of, you know, crying and be like, I feel that this this didn't work out, you know, learn from it. Failures are lessons. What is this failure trying to teach me? Before we dive back into today's conversation, I want to share something important.

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1:27 Once again, this is a paid partnership with Better Help, and I encourage you to take that first step. If you've been thinking about it, sometimes the best investment you can make these in yourself. We are live. Ladies and gentlemen, you all once again, welcome to the Kingdom's podcast and Diary of the CFO. And today I've got a very very very I'll add 2 berries that is a quadruple DIP on the show today fighting out of Dublin Island by way of Lagos, Nigeria.

2:00 Make welcome all new book holler. So go you. How old you? Hello everyone, I'm good. Hi, what kind of intro was that? That was amazing. OK. I'll wait till you hear the proper introduction that I would I say curated for you. So ladies and gentlemen, today's guest is the builder of influence in the real world, not just online. She's worked inside high performance sales environments, including fintech giant revenues. She has exceeded targets in competitive markets. She has built pipelines, handled objections and translated complex value into simple decisions. And then she made a bold He thought she stepped into the creator economy and now builds high converting contents for brands powered by cell

2:58 psychology, customer empathy and deep understanding of buyer behaviour. This is not a conversation about going viral. This is a conversation about positioning, persuation, resilience and relevance. From Lagos to Dublin, from economics to enterprise, core culture, worldview. How are you once again?

3:22 Seriously, how many intro are you going to give me AI? So like Eddie lies told, I don't think I told any lie right? But for the purpose of this conversation, I think Olufu colour is quite a mouthful for me. So permit me to to refer to you as bookie. I might safe refer to you as bookie because. Sure, everyone calls me Bookie. Amazing because that is the pet name for anybody with that name. You know, if you're from Nigeria, you know, or guys that are outside of Nigeria that are non Nigerians. This is bookie.

3:59 She's not a bookkeeper by the way. She's not a bookworm, just bookie. So let's talk about your identity and your origin story. Take us back to the early version of you. Like who were you before the titles The Carrier Fever and All of the Adventure? Thank you. AI Bookie was a dreamer. I've always been a dreamer.

4:22 Far back as when I was in primary school, I and the house help them. We had someone that was helping us with the chores. We went to the market, we got some air accessories and I would take it to school the next day and I would sell it to my friends. And to be honest, I didn't even know why they were buying from me. They could easily go and get it themselves. But I just did that.

4:44 And to me, I didn't even know it was business. I really didn't know what it was. I just knew it was something I wanted to do. So I've always wanted to sell. I've always been, should I say, good at it. It's just been a compassion of mine. And early days, I used to grow up watching my elder sister. She's late now.

5:01 But to be honest, I can't tell my story without a shown below. I used to, you know, watch her and I saw, thank you. I saw everything she did. And she was such a business person. Like she will go to Dubai, she will sell Brazilian air, she will go to Ghana, she will sell jewelries. So I was like, hmm, if she's doing this, I can do this too, right?

5:23 So she was like my role model growing up because I used to watch her. I saw the way she was able to manage her time because, you know, she had sickle cell just like me. I also have sickle cell. So she was really able to manage her time and I was like, okay, this is really a good idea instead of, you know, working 9:00 to 5:00 and then my employees asking me, oh, why didn't you come today? What was wrong?

5:47 Because I did had these issues in school where my teachers would be asking me why didn't I come and whereby I had to receive exams and even sometimes write exams in the sickbay. So I just wanted to avoid all that bad culture. And I just wanted to, you know, make something for myself I could be proud of. And seeing someone actually do it in front of me with such close proximity, I was like, OK, yes, I'm going to do this. Wow.

6:16 It is quite touching. What you actually pointed at that is that pain of having to leave as a sequel cell carrier. A lot of people can never relate to that pain and it's quite an expose. And I'd like for you to like maybe expand on that a little bit myself. Would I say I'm a partial carrier, right?

6:43 So you have the A, A, you have the AS, you have the SS. And even being a partial carrier like life can be really. Tough. I'll just do a little bit of biology and a little bit of science. Please educate our. Anaemia is a blood disease. We're actually in the same category with cancer patients, so the haematology team takes the care of both of us.

7:07 That should tell you how bad it is for the for the people listening. So it basically affects the cells, your red blood cells and you know you have sickle shaped cells that are not formed properly and therefore they can't flow to the heart vessels properly. And so you get something called a crisis, which is when you have pain due to the blood cells actually stock the red blood cells. It can be very, very painful, kind of like being stabbed to death or kind of like a gunshot wound. I know someone would say, oh, you've never been stabbed, You've never been shot.

7:44 But it is, it is that painful. Like, just think of the worst thing you've gone through in life and just multiply it by 10. That's how it feels. You know, it affects, you know, people in the black culture. I think it affects a little bit of Asian culture as well. I'm not sure. I'm not a medical professional. So basically it happens when AS&AS form. So when your parents made, let's say AS father, AS mother, you get the sickle cell.

8:17 I have to use my hands to explain it because it's biology. So the A from, Yeah, the S from yeah, that's AS. Then there's another S from Yeah, there's another S from yeah, that would be ASS. So if you're unlucky, or should I say lucky, I don't know, you get the SS together. So that's how you get the disease.

8:37 And it's lifelong is genetically given. Oh, yeah. That's all sickle cell is about. Really. Yeah. So it can really be a very painful process. You know, I've had times growing up where actually wanted to just, you know, I had those, you know, those thoughts to just, you know, end it all. But I'm grateful to God that I'm here. And I remember I used to tell my elder sister I would be like, oh, you're so lucky.

9:14 You are a A, you know, And she'll be like, oh, what if I go outside now and a cat eats me? Or what if I get cancer tomorrow? So she kind of helped me to see that it doesn't really matter if I'm a SSSAA. What matters is what I do with my time on heart. And I took that lesson to heart. Since then, all I've ever wanted to do is take my time on earth, precious, because no one is promised tomorrow. I'm one of those few people that I'm actually not afraid of, that I'm more scared of what I didn't achieve before I die. So I'm one of those that I'm like, OK, let's make all the mistakes.

9:52 Now on that deathbed, let me be saying I thought I've done it all as opposed to on the deathbed and be saying, oh, I wish I did this. I wish I did that. So I'm actually one of those. So that's it. Basically. I'll just say guys, drop in the comments. Your inspiration in life. Oh, or where do you get your inspiration from?

10:19 I actually love to read that on this video on this podcast. Anyway, you're watching for Spotify you. Good. OK, so we're speaking about the impact of a sickle cell anaemia, right And I spoke about the fact that I'm a partial carrier, but you are full on carrier. A lot of people do not show empathy towards people with this condition. So I wanted you to what I say, show some light, shed some light on it, expand a little bit by the like the pains what what does it feel like, right?

10:56 Having to achieve the same goals, the same targets, right? As you know, regular people and being 1 foot behind the cost of even of this condition. Thank you. AI. Sickle cell and cancer are blood related diseases and we're actually in the same haematology, you know, blood department. That's just to give you a grasp of the severity of the illness.

11:25 Basically, how sickle cell is formed is when you have a patient or a mother that carries the AS genotype and a father that carries the AS genotype, and then you get 1S from here. You get 1S from here and the sickle cell is formed. And these are sickly red blood cells that have difficulties flowing through your heart and giving you, your body in general, the necessary oxygen you need.

11:54 That in turn leads to crisis pain whereby it feels like you've been shot or you've been stopped. And a lot of people will be like, oh, have you actually been shot or stopped? No, I haven't. But just picture the worst pain you've ever experienced in life and multiply it by 10. And that is exactly how sickle cell crisis pain is. And it can last for like a day, two months, depending on your pain management strategy and the medication or blood transfusion or any process you might have done to relieve that crisis. So sickle cell patients, we end up being very, very tired even on regular days that we don't have crisis because our blood cells are doing more work than a regular individual because the red blood cells are stuck, so

12:50 they need to float past the oxygen. So an average individual might, you know, get tired maybe after 12 hours of work, a sickle cell patient can wake up and the person is already tired or after just two hours of work, the person who's already physically tired. And there's really nothing you can do about it, though there's like a few drugs out there and a few transfissions out there, but those are not like the permanent solutions.

13:15 So you, we just start to, you know, go to accept it, you know, go to live through it and see what we can achieve while facing such challenges. Well, thank you very much for expanding that. You know, like sometimes it just feels like your body's shutting down and you kind of help yourself. But how have you been able to like cope in terms of like, would I say a support system?

13:42 Of course, you always need people around you that would understand what you're going through and give you the necessary support to navigate life. I know you would definitely appreciate that support system. And like, what's the advice? You have more people out there living with the condition and how can they actually navigate life and still achieve great stuff like yourself?

14:07 Thank you very support system. Growing up, it was my parents, my siblings, because a lot of people don't know this, but when you're actually in a crisis, my physical cell crisis, you're literally kind of like, how do I explain it? You can move, you can't literally carry your body. Like if it's a leg crisis, you can't walk, if it's a hand crisis, you can carry your hands.

14:34 You become kind of paralysed, you are paralysed and you're in pain. So in such scenarios, you literally can't do anything for yourself. You can't even take yourself to the hospital 'cause I grew up in Africa, Nigeria, there's nothing like ambulance. So you can't die 911, whatever the ambulance system is, get someone to come grab you. No.

14:56 So you have to rely on your support system. Several times my dad has backed me on his back to the hospital. My sisters have carried me physically. Like, you know, even friends when I was in school, when I was in university, like to literally help me 'cause I can't help myself. And then of recent, it's been my husband. My husband is my strong support system. I don't know what I would do without him. And I kind of tested him before we got married. Side notes because whenever I date a guy and I happened to have a crisis, I always test them if they're going to show up at the hospital before him.

15:39 None of them ever showed up. In fact, the ones that did show up were the ones that were just friends. They knew that OK, this is just friendship. Those are the ones that used to. Come and see. Me so I tested my husband with dating and he actually so this is for fellow sickle cell people like test your partner.

15:58 Don't just think oh when I marry him everything is soft. Gotta test the guy. Is he going to show up? You know, and actually did show up and I knew that, OK, this is the one. And also he actually experienced it physically with me. There was a day was for us to go to church and I had a crisis. And he was there, you know, to experience it with me and to, you know, give me my medication and water and take care of me. So he saw her that before he proposed, and he saw her that before, you know, we agreed to a union. So a strong support system matters. And I know even though he saw her, that living in it is still very difficult.

16:41 We still face challenges as a couple. He still second guesses and I still second guess because we didn't know it was going to be this challenging in the marriage. But there are some areas that you know, can be really tricky when you're living with sickle cell patient. And there was one of one important fear he had was that because he didn't want a child.

17:01 And his reason was that if I have a sickle cell crisis, where is it going to keep the baby? I thank God she's actually gave right to my daughter. I haven't had one, but that was really why we delayed as much as we could in, you know, having a baby because initially he was like 01 year into marriage.

17:19 He wants to enjoy his wife. One year he went by, he was like no, two years and later he opened up to me and he was like, it's just scared because if I have a crisis and he needs to take me to the hospital, where is the child going to go? You know, I helped him to understand that, you know, God is our source. At the end of the day, God will sort it out, you know, because I really wanted to be a mom.

17:39 I love being a mom. Oh yeah, I have a baby now. It's year old. So to answer your question regarding feather sickle cell, how to get support and, you know, how they can navigate and, you know, achieve their goals, I would say just never give up. There was a quote from Walt Disney I used to write on my journals growing up.

18:00 And that quote says all our dreams can come true if you have the courage to pursue them. I wrote this quote sound like primary school. I've never let that quote go. And another thing is this Bible passage that says all things are possible now. There's nothing impossible We got, yes, people might look at me and be like, oh, this girl has sickle cell, but I'm not seeing myself like that.

18:24 I'm seeing myself as ghost child. That's how I identify myself first. I am ghost child. That's the most important thing, sickle cell and all that. It's just for me to share my story so that people can learn. Well, I don't see myself as that. I see myself first as ghost child and you know, we got all things are possible.

18:41 Nothing is impossible for him. So that's just my advice for you out there. I love that I love that my should read Bible verses. The leap ends up to 4 respecting me. I can do all things through crisis strengthens me. And of course, you know, it keeps pushing me. And it's, it's quite interesting to see the, the, the similarities, the connecting dots, right? And, you know, you enter the traditional corporate environment.

19:09 Like what did that season of the life teach you about how people really make decisions? All right, so before I actually, you know, start working with Revolute Business, I had, you know, doubled here and there since I left university. Reason being, the way the old system works in Nigeria, you don't get a job, military graduates like you have to also.

19:33 So I, I doubled into a couple of things. I would sell makeup. I was a face model, I was a makeup artist, you know, so many things. And then in between, I also be a sales Rep for this medical team, this medical company, this forex company. You know, I was just dabbling. I was just dabbling like, 'cause I didn't take 1 penny for my parents after school, 'cause that was what I told myself I wasn't gonna take 1 penny.

20:01 So I was just hustling, you know, just doubling and getting into Revolute business and navigating that. First of all, I honestly didn't think I was qualified to be an account executive. My husband was the one that gave me, excuse my friend, the boss, because he was like, I just apply. I'll help you with your CV.

20:27 My friend will help you prep for interview. You know, just try it, just try it. And I was like, OK, fine, let me try it. Let me apply. And I was like, I don't have experience. And I was like, you've been selling all your life. I'm going to excuse me. I'm going to set up your CV in a way that it will show everything you've been doing. I was like, OK, And, you know, it just kind of happened. And I remember that interview because I had interviews with other companies and I remember that particular interview, like before the end of the interview, I kind of knew that me and my manager connected.

21:00 I have no hatred for my manager. Like I love him to today, Danny, if you're watching. So I kind of knew it was gonna go. Well, but you love your husband more. And, you know, getting the job, yes. So getting the job and actually doing the job at two different things, you know, yes, I was good. Yes, I had trained because I did some courses prior to the interviews.

21:24 So I knew about Upspot CRM, I knew about Salesforce. But the actual day-to-day and the market I was selling in was completely different. All my life I was selling in the Nigerian African market. Here I am in island Europe. I didn't grow up here. So obviously I have no connections. My network is 0 and I'm supposed to be bringing outbounds. You know, I'm supposed to be closing deals. I have a target like how is the map gonna add up? I'm competing with people that all they need is one party and they get 5 companies.

22:02 All they need is 1 friend's house and they get 20 companies. Those are the kind of people that are in my, you know, unit with me. And it was really, really challenging coupled with my health and hope that it was really, really challenging. I'm not going to lie. And I had to re evaluate myself and ask the question, is this really what I want to continue doing?

22:24 Honestly, I didn't even want the job in the 1st place. I've always been an entrepreneur, right? But I wanted to try something different from my husband because we're trying to buy a house. We're trying to buy a car. So I was like, let me input, let me not be the useless wife, right? Let me add something to this, Let me add value.

22:42 So luckily for us, we're able to save up. We're able to deposit for the house. We're able to get the car. We want it, you know? So I was like, OK, those are the goals I needed this job for, right? Can I go back to entrepreneurship now? So, you know, we had that discussion and I was like, you know, this is not my passion.

23:05 You know, I need to go to my true passion, which is, you know, solving problems, being an entrepreneur, interacting, meeting people. You know, I just love connecting with the world. So yeah, he released me and he was like, OK, fine. And that was how we got here. So you you talk about connecting with the with the world, but at what point did you realise that you had that innate ability to persuade people to communicate? Because in other for you to sell two things, you need to be able to communicate effectively.

23:43 And of course you need to have that has received power. So at what point did you realise that, you know, just like the Guinness adverts, there's a drop of business in every month, you know, and it isn't you. Obviously, like I have a lot of imposter syndrome to be honest. Like I doubt myself every day, even to today. So it's not like every day I wake up in that bus mode in that Let's Connect mode, like I'm a cleric, melancholy. So that means I'm introvert, half extrovert. So it depends.

24:19 Sometimes I have to really push myself because sometimes I'm not in the mood. I just want to recharge my battery, you know, Even with my husband, sometimes I just go to the bath, have a bath and close the door for like 1 hour because I need to recharge my social battery. So it's not like no, it's automatic for me.

24:37 It's kind of like, OK, when Bookie is in the mood, she's fond, she loves to connect, you know, you get the best. But you know, when she's not in the mood, you need to understand that she wants to recharge. You know, even electric cars need to recharge, right? That's not cool. So even high need to recharge. So it's not, it doesn't come for me as easy as it looks. That's just when I want everyone to understand. It's also a skill, you know, add to watch videos on YouTube about, you know your tonality, you know how to understand sales, add to understand handling objections, you know, so many things.

25:19 So I also had to train myself. Even though naturally I had that skill set, I still had to train myself, you know, to navigate that world. I love what you talk about the training, right? Because for a person like myself, right, switching to entrepreneurship, I learned the hard way that you need to learn sales and discover that sales is a psychology, right? So and communication, a lot of people don't realise that there are four communication skills.

25:48 There are four language skills that is speaking, listening, reading and writing, right? You need to master all four skills in order to be a master of communication, but a lot of people base premium on just the speaking aspect right? Now. When you master this four language skills, it helps you to be able to refine your messaging, right? The way you return the messaging for speaking is different from the way you refine your messaging for writing, right? But at some point, you get to learn the hard knock lessons, right?

26:24 And one very big hard knock is if you've ever tried cold outreaches, right? It teaches you how to handle rejection objections, to test your identity, to test your emotional control. For me, I've had to crash out too many times, right? Test your patience. You know, I've had situations whereby just give me this gist.

26:52 I've had situations whereby I was having a call and these calls are recorded, right? And the guy was like, oh, I'm pinning your location, I'm going to come find you. Your accent is not from UK, so why are you calling me? You're a scammer. This, this, that that. And I've had situations where I was like, Oh my God, like I just want to break something like I just want to throw something away. Like I just want to be done.

27:19 So I've had those situations and I'm like stomping something on the floor in my work of work office upstairs and then my husband is downstairs walking and he up the stairs and it's like what happened? What happened? And I'm like these people have come again, they are back. They just wonder, you know, provocate me.

27:38 So, you know, I've had those kind of people and then I've had the people that obviously their objections are within reason. And then those kind of people, you know, I photo explain and, you know, help them understand where I'm coming from. I so I was talking about high pressure environments, right and how it helps you to resi develop your emotional intelligence, right. So how did I help you like working on a high pressure, you have so many deliverables.

28:12 You have different stakeholders dragging you in different directions, right. How did you manage and how has it helped you improve as a person right? That is on work and off work. So you think fast, you think on your feet about situations where I, I'm naturally, I'm the kind of person that I pivot easily and I know when to pivot.

28:35 So if something is not working, let's say for example a code outreach pitch is not working, you know, you quickly change it. You don't wait till next month or two months time to make that change. You know, you think on your feet, you pivot, you ask the right questions, you reach out to the right people. You know, you just want to be a sponge in that situation. You want to suck it all in.

28:58 You want to learn from everywhere you can. Anyway, that was how I was like I would go to my fellow colleagues on LinkedIn, you know, I'll set calendar invites, you know, and then I'll ask them questions, you know, add colleagues in, you know, France, Poland, and I would, you know, I'll be chatting with them. This is after work around like 5:00 PM just because I want to know their strategies, I want to learn more. I want to see how I can better apply myself to the job. You know, just just think on your feet, as I said. And that attitude, that behaviour, working in such environment, because I'm going to be very honest with you. It was a very like how I put it like jungle environment, like if you don't kill, you don't eat

29:47 Exactly. So working in that kind of environment, you know, you learn to never give up. You learn that all you need to do is pivot. You don't fail because failure is just a step to success. So instead of, you know, crying and be like, oh, I feel that this this didn't work out, you know, learn from it.

30:08 Failures are lessons. What is this failure trying to teach me? And I take that lesson on to the next one. And the next one. It gets better. You know, Speaking of learning from your failures, that helps you to keep refining your messaging, right? So like, how did your customers like respond to your language, your tone, and like how did you build trust over time with refining your messaging?

30:39 Honestly, I'll just say, you know, I was myself. You know, clearly I can't change. So I was just 100% myself. So even when I have meetings with stakeholders, colleagues and customers, clients, you know, if there's something I don't understand, I'll tell them, oh, I need to get back to you on this.

31:02 You know, I was very honest, you know, and they promote that cultural and rebel business as well. They'll tell you be honest, the calls are being recorded. Don't lie to get your sales, you know, so you have no choice but to be honest. Though I'm naturally honest, but the culture also helps you to be honest.

31:23 So, you know, so when you are in such meetings, you know, if you don't have the answer or I'll get back to you, you know, I try and get back to them as soon as possible. There are times where, you know, I reach out to my manager and I'll be like, oh, Danny, we need to work on this e-mail together now, like, and then it's jumping on a call.

31:42 We're trying to refine the message together, you know, or maybe some client sent me because there are some no nonsense clients. There are some clients that are very difficult and they'll be like, absolutely, this is rubbish. Your, your standard is this your standard is that. I'm funny enough, it's not even me they're talking to, they're directing it to the business.

32:02 But you know, I have to find a way to refine my reply in a way that it's not personal and addresses their cons at the same time. You know, empathy, in my opinion, is still the most important skill in business. Did you agree with that? 100 percent, 100%. OK. So working in a Fintech environment, it's actually super if you like say ultra fast-paced. So like, what did that teach you, You know, in terms of balancing speed, precision, responsibility, and accountability?

32:45 It's not me. A whole lot taught me to be a dogged person. So if you're actually my friend or my family member, you refer to me as stubborn. I hear that all the time. Bookie is stubborn, bookie is rude. And that is because I am dogged and that is because I don't give up and I say my opinion. So those are the things working in that culture has helped me because prior to that culture, you know, in Nigeria, there's something called respect your elders.

33:18 You know, and I remember this particular situation with my manager, he he kind of called me out in a team meeting and it was like, bookie, I expected you to do this, you didn't do it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, he left and the meeting was over and then he, you know, slacked me. It was like one-on-one slack. And he was like, I was actually expecting you to defend yourself.

33:43 I was like, oh, in my culture, we don't do that. And it was like, explain that in the Nigerian culture, you know, when someone is talking, you keep quiet. You respect your elders, You know, you don't talk back. And it was like, going forward, I expect you to talk back. I expect you to defend yourself. And I took that lesson and I took it going for that. I was like, OK, nobody's going to tell me this and that I'm going to defend myself.

34:11 I'm going to speak up. I'm going to, you know, talk back if I have to. Because to be honest, that's that's what you're meant to do. If you check out the kids that grew up in Ireland, UK, they don't even know anything like do not talk back. They don't do anything like that. So imagine the different cultural variations. So that was something I really took from that, going to apply this wherever I am, you know, in life. You know, culture shock, culture shock is a very, very big thing. So for me also like having a similar background as yours, moving from Nigeria to the UKI met with a lot of culture shocks, right?

34:50 But I like to know what you would probably say, are you like maybe top two, top three culture shock elements that is moving from a Nigerian environment to the Irish environment? The number one that affects everybody is the food. That's like the first shock. Like what am I eating? I don't understand. The food is bland, the.

35:15 Food is bland, there is no pepper, there is no seasoning. That was my first number one, like what's going on? Yeah. And and the second one obviously was, you know, communication, the way they communicate over here, even in the morning, they don't say good morning. They say hi, you know, hello. That's their greeting in Africa.

35:37 You say good morning. You even knew that one. Say that good morning. You know, so I would say those. I like this. It's so major culture shock. It's lazy. Can I, can I think of what? All right. Wow. How about you? What What culture shock have you experienced? Yeah, I'll tell you the, the, the food was #1 right. Because, yeah, at first, you know, coming to the UK, I came to KPMG and KPMG had this culture of like having an office canteen.

36:09 And I'm like, OK, out of the packs was that you have food in the canteen, A subsidised food. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like this this, this food is this is trash. And then there was a day that one of the partners, right, is having a beaten with the with the new hires. And then he was asking me like, why is it that you do not come into the office? And I was straight up honest.

36:34 I'm like, the food is trash. Yeah, that's actually very true. Like, yeah, British food is actually blind, right. But assessment that, yeah, social interactions, yeah, social interactions was a very, very. Do you know the funniest thing? Like like. OK. Yeah, they know that what happens, You cannot serve bookie and meal without adding extra pepper and extra sauce like extra salt.

37:02 So when they are serving everybody and they come in, when they get to my room, they will pack the salt, pack the pepper in Saint James is an Ireland because they know, but kids is not going to eat that food. Good desk gracious. So I think one of my early neighbours in London was laughing at me. He says OK anytime you're going to work make sure to take your chilli pepper and that's your salt with you where you go into work so that you can enjoy the food. But may I don't like.

37:32 That's the only. Social interactions, social interactions, major, major one for me, right? Like you get on the train, you just say greeting to a person and they act like you're invisible back. It's, it's, it's that level of being rude for me. Like it is very, very shocking for me. You get into elevators with certain people and you say hi, you say a good morning, hello, and they just flat out ignored you. Wow.

38:04 It's, it's crazy. But I think I guess that's like a London thing because when I went to like other parts of England, like then up north, the people are warmer. So issues like London that that's that there's a culture of being rude and ignoring people, which I did not like. I think it's a city theme. Most cities, most cities, they just want you to come. And also everybody has the mindset, you know, they're just looking for their daily, also daily bread. So I think it's a city thing 'cause even Dublin city, I think that happens as well.

38:41 Yeah. So the people in the suburb, but they are much, much friendly, much, much warmer. Yeah, I agree with that, Yeah. Yeah, I've been to Dublin once. Dublin wasn't as bad as London. Anyways, I think London takes the call. In terms of now going back to your Fintech experience, like working in the financial services sector, I think it would have talked to you quite a lot about understanding human financial behaviour, right?

39:15 And human financial behaviour influences or the OR would I say social behaviour. But how has that actually, would I say, inspired the way that you create contents and do you refine your messaging? That's a very good one. I would say the way the financial and social mix is in terms of looking at consumer behaviour and, you know, trying to put yourself in the bias shoes, I always tell my husband this, you are not selling to yourself, you are selling to your customers because you'll be like, oh, I don't like it this way. I don't like this one and I be like, it's not for you, it's not for you.

40:00 You're not the target market, it's not for you. You need to focus on the target market to focus on the consumer, focus on their behaviour. And you know, that's just what I took from that is understanding that it goes into the psychology of the consumer. What are they thinking? What are their pinpoint, You know, what are they struggling with? Just try and put yourself in their shoes. Figure out how's their day-to-day life. OK, let's say your target market is a nurse in the hospital. OK, how is her day-to-day?

40:30 Like obviously she has to wake up as early as you know, depending on the shift. 5:00 AM get a train, then starts her shift. You know you need to figure out those things to understand her behaviour and how she'll respond. Was about to get into the Creator Hub live section. Riverside AI called this aspect.

40:58 So let us talk about Creator Hub. You've been talking about pinpoints. You talked about how you don't sell a product that you want to sell, you sell a product that the buyer wants to buy, the customer also buy. So what was that original problem, the original pinpoint that you saw in the creator economy that made you say Creator Hub needs to exist?

41:29 So it was a personal experience. I've been doing UTC for two years now. I've been a user generated content creator for two years. For those that don't know what the term UTC means, and basically. You just see around. You just see. You just see. You just see what is. You just see. I need to explain, a lot of people don't know this term. It means when you create related videos to advertise brand products.

41:55 And I worked with several brands, couple of brands, you know, America, UK, Ireland, you know, and I was seeing the same problem. It was a personal pain point. The problem was #1 the market was so disorganised, it was decentralised, you know, there wasn't a process, there was no system. As a business, if you're looking for you to see creator, you need to hire someone or an agent that would start searching maybe on Instagram or Twitter or you know, on any socials and start looking for you to see creators.

42:32 And then when you finally get the person you know, you reach out through an e-mail or through DM. And then there's so much back and forth in admin and negotiation. Same thing. You know, if it's maybe you posted a job online, you posted it on Twitter, you're looking for agency creators. People put their portfolio and their e-mail.

42:53 You have to start shuffling through thousands and thousands of portfolios and emails till you find the right person. So it takes a lot of manpower, it takes a lot of admin. And what a lot of businesses don't realise is a lot of cost is going into that, a lot of costs. And you know, even personally, as a creator, I had to stop paying someone. It was that bad to start replying my emails to brands and to start outbound for brands because there was no structure, there was no process.

43:32 There wasn't a platform where I can say this is where I get all things you just see done. No, I have to use Camba, Create Portfolio, I have to use another app. Create Invoice, I have to use another app. Calendar Management, I have to use another app. You know, it was a mess and you know, I was just nagging to my husband one day. I was just complaining.

43:59 Why is it so bad? Like I do enjoy creating this videos. I do enjoy this content, but the process is just not giving. And my husband, you know, being my husband, because I used to tell him you are the 1% and he was like, let's do something about it. I wasn't even looking for a solution to be honest.

44:22 I was just nagging that day. I was just expressing my thoughts. You know how we women will be like, oh babe, I just want to nag to you. I don't want you to look for a solution. You know, that was what I was doing and it was like, let's do something about it. This is a pinpoint to you and not only me, other creators because I took so many UGC courses when I realised that we are all facing the same thing.

44:47 So I had this Telegram group, I joined, we're like over 100, all complaining about the same thing. There was another course I paid for, one lady in America all complaining about the same thing. So it was really bad structural problem and I was just complaining about it and my husband was like let's do something about it. Let's create a web app, an application, a software, a tool, you know where you can have a centralised whereby from discovery to delivery, the beginning to the end of a UGC project life cycle can be in all one place. So we created the only help so far as only happened to all world, America, UK, Europe that does that.