Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 112: Galore Galore!

0:16 Hello. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:21 This is the show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and old feelings.

0:26 Today we're rewinding to episode 112, which we named Galore Galore.

0:30 This episode came out on March 15th, 2018.

0:34 Right.

0:34 Let's listen to the intro of episode 112. hi hello here and welcome georgia to my.

0:44 Favorite med that's there we are when we do the.

0:48 Switch off thing it immediately feels like i'm in second grade i immediately want to ruin it it's do you mean like just say the line that isn't your line yeah because i hate it it's i know it's really dumb like blow it all up to the moon you know yeah it's that that That's the feeling I get, too. But also, it's so easy to follow.

1:08 It is.

1:09 And you just know what to do. And it's catchy and there's a jingle. It kind of reminds me, it reminds me of camp. Oh. My. Favorite. Camping. Camping stories. Camping trip. Do you. Oh, I have a right off the bat. Well, no. You want to write off the bat this thing? Corrections corner myself.

1:30 Get out in front of even the show itself to correct yourself.

1:34 At last, I just want to say, someone pointed out to me on Twitter last week during my murder, I said the word transvestite.

1:41 I should have said transgender. And I think even in my.

1:44 Mind, I wasn't totally clear on the differences.

1:49 Yeah, I think the person who wrote to us and lots of people were saying, what a good call in and not a call out. The person said, it's the modern phrase is trans.

1:58 Yeah.

1:59 So I screwed that up and I 100% will do my best to move forward and fuck in.

2:04 Just do it right. Well, here's the thing. And it was such a lovely phrase. Lovely phrase tweet. But I have I don't know. Like when someone says, you know, the common parlance is trans. I just am speaking from what I've known from when I heard people talk about it.

2:24 So it's like we do need those updates. Absolutely. And like, you know.

2:29 I think I copied and pasted some fucking thing from Wikipedia and just was reading it.

2:33 And I need to stop and think about it when I'm doing shit like that.

2:36 And I know, even though I think I'm like, it was so hard about being corrected when you think you're fucking liberal and woke as fuck and like on it. It's so hard to be like, I didn't screw up.

2:48 I support everyone. You can still screw up and it's okay.

2:51 And also it's just, it's just that fine tuning of, it's not a massive screw up. It's just a person going, oh, that just, I don't, it makes me feel discluded or it makes me feel bad.

3:01 Or it's perpetuating a negative stereotype that.

3:05 I a hundred percent don't want to be part of. No, no, no. There's no time for that. On this podcast of all the things we're trying to do, that's the last fucking thing we're trying to do.

3:13 Absolutely.

3:16 Also, I will say in that same vein, in a corrections vein, um, Um, maybe not all the way in the corner, but somebody on Twitter was like, Hey, have you guys ever talked about wind river? And I was literally standing in my backyard, like doing one thing. And then I just wrote, we did it. I wasn't even really thinking about it. I was like, I was getting four things done at once.

3:37 We did.

3:38 And then she took it as like she jokingly was like, I was chided.

3:43 But then I whatever.

3:44 And I but I really meant this. I was like, I really didn't mean it that way. Of course, it seemed that way. It's Twitter and whatever.

3:51 But what I did like that she was bringing up her point was what and our point.

3:57 Was when we talked about it on the podcast is Wind River is such a great movie because it's finally bringing light. to like the murder and missing indigenous women of America and also of Canada.

4:09 Right.

4:09 And then they mentioned this podcast that I had meant to mention a while ago and hadn't. But so the podcast is called Missing and Murdered. And season one, I listened to and loved it called who it was about who it was titled, Who Killed Alberta Williams. And that was really good. And the new season just came out.

4:25 And this one's called Finding Cleo. And it's hosted by and like you know, made by Connie Walker, who's an investigative reporter and an indigenous woman herself.

4:36 Yeah.

4:36 So it's really, it's really good. I, I, I'm going to listen to Finding Cleo now, but the first one who killed Alberta Williams was really good.

4:43 Yeah.

4:43 I can't wait to listen to, but you have to look up Missing and Murdered as the name.

4:47 The name of it is Missing and Murdered. Yeah.

4:49 Um, I would, I liked that because I was also going to say on Twitter and then I was like, never explain anything on Twitter. It's such, it's so pointless, but I wanted to say, like when we did our Vancouver show last, the last time we were on tour and we were in Vancouver, I wanted to do the high of the highway of tears, but the, there are so many victims and there's no, there's kind of no single story. It's just all these disappearances and all these really sad stories. So it was like, I wanted to explain on Twitter that, Yeah. I've never tackled that because once I started looking into it, it was this expansive.

5:24 And they each have their, they each should be their own episode.

5:26 Like Alberta Williams in this one is one of the women from the highway of tears, but it has not, you know, it's, it maybe has nothing to do with any of the other women and it's its own, it's like, you know, multi-part story itself.

5:39 So it's so hard to.

5:41 Each one of those cases should be, it, it, it's like, it's, it gets so vast. It's very much like the grim sleeper.

5:47 Yeah.

5:47 It had, it went on for so long that there are so many people that you're talking about that you can't not under, under like serve those victims.

5:57 And their stories.

5:58 I was going to do like three of the three victims or one of the victims that was it was solved when they found out that it was this serial killer and it was caught in a really cool way. But then it's none of the women who this was solved about were indigenous. So then I was like, I'm going to only do the Highway of Tears with the non-indigenous women.

6:17 And that doesn't sound right. So I didn't do that one.

6:19 Well, that's kind of, yeah, that's not the point for what that story is. So it's very cool that there are people that are dedicating entire true crime podcasts to that area. And, um, thank you guys for who, to the people who brought all that stuff up for us on Twitter.

6:37 We appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Now fun times in the sunshine. Let's go fun. Let's have some fun. Let's go to camp.

6:44 We had a little campy kind of event because on the podcast, I said I wanted to take a tour of jet propulsion laboratories, which is a place here in, um, very close to where we are right now in Pasadena, uh, where they build things like the Mars rover and things that they put on Mars and other planets.

7:07 Mars is the only one I know. So in saying that on the podcast, we got some.

7:13 Responses from people who actually worked at JPL who were like, I can give you a tour. And the person that I guess either Steven picked or seemed the most credible.

7:22 Maybe it was the most high end.

7:23 Yeah.

7:24 Like we got the guy. I was betting it.

7:26 Yeah.

7:27 Yeah.

7:27 Steven was, he was only going for the superstars of JPL. We got a guy who is an engineer named Lou Gersh and he is in charge.

7:38 All right. Listen to this shit. He is in charge of.

7:42 Entry, Descent, and Landing Systems Analysis for the Europa Project.

7:47 Europa being a moon of Jupiter. Sure. Which Georgia knew. She already knew that. Even though I didn't go because I was sick. That's right. It was me. It was Steven.

7:55 It was our friend, Scotty Landis. And we took a full on tour of this place. It's like this gorgeous college campus, but only smart people, which that's the way colleges should be.

8:07 And did you see that guy.

8:08 When we were walking in a building, there was a guy that walked out and he was wearing a total like Blues Brothers suit. But he had kind of like longish, like early 80s guy hair. And he was, I was like, look at that rocket scientist.

8:21 He's so cute. Like every, everywhere I looked, I.

8:23 Was like, that's the most fascinating person. Like everyone just seemed so cool and smart. And they were all working on putting things onto different planets.

8:33 Oh my God. It was incredible. Can I say, can I tell you a love story? Sure. I know a girl named Nicolette and her... Sheridan. Sheridan.

8:42 Her, like, super gorgeous husband is a super smart rocket scientist.

8:47 Loving it. I think he works at JPL.

8:48 He was sending, when they first started dating, he was sending, listen, I'm getting all of this wrong, but essentially he sent a thing to a planet.

8:58 Maybe it was the moon. I don't remember.

8:59 Is the moon a planet or is it just our moon?

9:03 A fucking rock. He sent it to a thing, to a place.

9:06 And he fucking wrote her name on the machine that was landing on the moon or Jupiter or Mars.

9:12 Oh, no. Nicolette.

9:14 So it's going to be there. And it's, you know, it stays there forever. They can't send them back. So he wrote her name.

9:20 That's like when you really like someone. Oh, my God. It's so beautiful. How sweet is that? I love it.

9:28 All in all, just it was an incredible experience. Lou was the best. He was the best guide. We got to see the coolest things. He's an incredibly friendly, smart, cool guy. And his wife, Lindsay, is also a listener. So hi, you guys. And thank you so, so much. we actually got to shop at the JPL gift store at the end, bought my dad a hat, got my niece a sweatshirt, got myself a sweatshirt.

9:54 I was going to buy you a shirt.

9:55 And then I looked at it. I was like, this is cute. She'll like this font. And I was like, really do it. And then I'm like, she will never wear this shirt. Like, this is not your style.

10:03 You just wanted to spend money. I did. It was so fun to shop. And they had like, Stephen, you bought... I bought... i bought space ice.

10:11 Cream i love that they haven't changed the package since we were children right yeah.

10:17 It's an astronaut neon colors.

10:18 Neapolitan ice cream and how was it.

10:21 It wasn't good i took one bite and i turned to karen and i was like oh this is bad but it was like that thing of like i would always see that and i'd want it and of course my dad or my mom would be like no yeah and then i finally was like i have my own money yep It's my life.

10:35 They were right. They're just like, oh yeah, this is what substitutes as ice cream in the furthest, darkest space. Because ice cream is good. Ice cream is good.

10:45 So anyway, the next time you hear about any kind of a, any rover of any type being landed on Europa, which is a moon of Jupiter.

10:56 That's Lou. That's Lou, baby. Thanks, Lou.

10:59 Lou and his team and everybody else at JPL, the coolest, the coolest scientists around.

11:04 The coolest. Can we say RIP Stephen Hawking? Oh, very nice. Nice fold in. End cap.

11:14 Did you see my tweet where my dad texted me at 1045 at night and goes, I read a thing where Stephen Hawking died.

11:20 Amazing. What does that mean? It is. I think he meant like what amazing life. He meant a bunch of stuff that he didn't write. Such a dad. It made me laugh so hard. Amazing. Where it's like, yeah, you mean dying, dying, being a human being. It is amazing. I love it. All right.

11:43 I also found out I got some information from my dad. My mom used to give my dad shit all the time. Because he used to have a Jewish girlfriend when he was in his 20s. And she would be like, I know you liked her more than me. She knew her name for some reason. It was like a running joke between them. And last night we were talking when I called my dad to console him about his amazement about Stephen Hawking's death. Somehow that came up. Because he found out she was next door neighbor's daughter. or he knew and told me she was next door neighbors with dick van dyke when she was growing up and i'm like oh so she was like rich rich and he goes oh yeah they lived in bel-air and i'm like i go dad i'm going.

12:24 There you could have been rich a rich.

12:26 Kid rich i could have been half jewish and half irish which is so badass yeah imagine yeah the confidence and the guilt um Anyway, so I told my dad, I texted my dad that I was going to find her address and go ring the doorbell and say that I was the family's long lost daughter. And he wrote, don't embarrass me.

12:49 Anyway, I'm going to embarrass my family so much on stage on Friday. I'm going to do it anyways.

12:55 It's not about them. No, it's not. It's not. It's about you. It's about me.

13:00 Please focus on what's important. Me in a jumpsuit that doesn't look good on me.

13:04 We're going to get you the best outfit. You know what we're going to do? You know what we're going to do, Karen? We're going to get you a big chunky necklace. We're going to cinch it at the waist. We're going to belt it. We're going to belt it and cinch it. We're going to get Spanx arm sleeves. That's fucking right.

13:17 You're going to wear long gloves up to your fucking tits.

13:21 It's going to be amazing. You know what we're going to do? We're going to send my tits out by themselves. And just let them do the show. Opening number. Lead with the tits, ladies. Yes, absolutely.

13:32 I actually thought of that where I'm like, what if this is just a show where I just go out just L.A.

13:37 Style and be like Angeline Cleavage and a fan across my face. Hold on a second. You know what we haven't talked about? What?

13:46 Did you see the thing that someone posted on Twitter and they're like, you were in.

13:50 The Oh, I shouldn't want to talk about it. Oh my God. It made me laugh my ass off. They said you were in the Observer, some British newspaper, and it was only a picture of Georgia. I know. And it's like the best photo of me. It's such a good picture. Thank God. Well, you know what I was thinking? It's only me. It's It's hilarious. Why did that happen?

14:16 One of a couple reasons, but I don't think there's any decent picture of me where I'm standing like full body that I would be the same size as you and look normal next to you.

14:25 But there's a really great photo that Robin Von Swing took of us. yeah but it wouldn't have fit in that lineup because they were trying to fit those five people it was like five podcasts.

14:34 And I look like I'm fucking hanging out with the Osbournes you you look like.

14:37 You are on a red carpet like Hollywood style I was and when I looked at for what for.

14:43 This for like the food video the food taste awards like the food oh yeah and this is like three years ago and I clearly look like that's my best I'll ever be.

14:55 I doubt it. No, you've got so much more ahead of you, girl. Thank you.

14:59 I was, I have to say I was insanely relieved because I was just like, I don't know a picture that I can imagine being put next to that picture that I would be like, oh, great. My midsection is in that newspaper. But what's also really funny is Josie, I'm not going to be able to remember her last name offhand, but she's a little bit further down. And she's the one that used to, she's a British woman that used to be on Whose Line Is It Anyway with Greg Proops and Ryan Stiles all the time.

15:27 Like the original one, she's super. Hold on. I want to say Josie Moran, but that's not right. And she is truly one of the funniest people on the planet. Hold on, hold on. And I wonder if the girl that tweeted it to us, because that's how I saw it, if she thought that that was me. Oh. I mean, I doubt it. Josie Lawrence. Josie Lawrence. Yeah.

15:50 Is one of the best improvisers there is and one of the funniest women on the planet. So I was like, well, maybe she's mistaking us.

15:58 Okay.

15:58 How sassy I look in this. Yeah, I know. I know. Who is that girl? Good luck with your fucking podcast. All right. It's my turn. I want to look like her. No, it's such a good picture. I'm happy about that.

16:13 Um, okay.

16:13 I found a new, okay. I wonder if you've never heard of it. Like a new police crime drama hit me. on netflix okay i'm gonna get i feel like i wanted to text you over the weekend because i've been sick and vince was gone so i just fucking binge watch this shit and i was like i'm gonna tell karen it's norwegian the break no uh it's norwegian the dark no which is great because uh You read it, it's subtitled so you can eat crackers really loudly and you don't have to turn it louder, which I realized over the weekend how great that was.

16:48 So it's called Borderliner. Yes, I just started it. Oh my God, how hot is the cup? It's crazy. And he's secret gay. Secret gay, which is always... Making out with the other hottest guy, who's a lawyer.

17:01 For some reason, I didn't see that coming. When you're watching a foreign show, I always, from watching so many of them, I'm like, I know what this usually contains.

17:12 You're going to set up like... The haggard mother that's still getting it all done and a cop.

17:17 And then the female cop's going to come along and she's hot and they're going to make out.

17:21 Yes. You just think you know all the tropes.

17:24 Yeah.

17:24 So that, and that guy started kissing that other guy. Like we were only in it for two and a half minutes.

17:29 Totally.

17:29 It was shockingly hot. It was surprisingly exciting.

17:34 He is the guy who plays a hot gay cop whose name I don't have and probably couldn't pronounce if I wanted to.

17:39 Right. It's Vince Doster's daughter. Right. Is so beautiful. Yeah.

17:44 So such a handsome cop guy. But anyways, I'm like almost done with it and it's really good. Shit keeps happening. Shit keeps happening where I'm like, I would have just told already. Like they keep getting themselves deeper and deeper.

17:59 Oh, like, yeah, I know.

18:00 Sometimes like the line of you can't suspend disbelief that long.

18:05 But I get it when it's like, well, if I now tell him in even more trouble than if I should have told in the beginning, now I'm fucked.

18:11 It needs to keep happening. Yeah. But I don't know. It's good. And there's a strong.

18:14 Female lead who's like on to everyone's lies and is just like going for the truth. She's a fucking detective as well. love it going.

18:22 For it there's something about those foreign procedurals maybe it is the the subtitles that i really.

18:28 Love yeah it's so much i like it they.

18:31 Make it very clear yeah i've spent all day by myself typing on some in some version most of it with you but just lots and lots of typing and writing in silence yeah so i'm really just getting these words up on their feet right now just trying some stuff out. And I just keep saying things and then going.

18:50 Like, don't, what? No.

18:52 I spent the weekend alone and didn't, I left the house for 15 minutes maybe because Vince was gone, you know, and I like didn't change my clothes. I didn't shower. I was just like, And then it was a good reminder of like, here's what you're like alone. Not everyone, but I am a particularly bad single person. Yes.

19:12 So it was nice, a nice reminder.

19:15 And then not talking, but then I realized I was talking because I was just having whole conversations.

19:19 With my cats. Yes. You know, that's, that's where we go to narrating their lives. I mean, I start.

19:27 Fake arguments just to entertain myself where I'll be like, what are you two doing in here? And they're just laying there like watching me only with their eyes moving. Uh, yeah, it's, um, There's nothing like being a hermit.

19:44 Should we just like do it?

19:46 Let's just get into it. I feel like I just had one more. other thing to tell you, though. Oh, I was just going to say I'm really excited for our L.A.

19:54 Show. We have to do an L.A. show in two days.

19:57 I'm super excited, but I'm starting to get insanely nervous.

20:00 It's so much higher stakes. Yeah. Because people we know are going to be there. It feels like.

20:07 It feels like we've done all these great shows with all these amazing people all around the country and have these amazing experiences.

20:15 And they were all people we didn't know. Right. And there's no way we can prove it.

20:20 It doesn't matter that all that great stuff happened because now it's just like, now you just got to put up or shut up in your hometown.

20:26 It's going to be like.

20:28 Some of my girlfriends are coming and my fucking mom and dad are coming and like my aunt might come and, and then all our agents are going to be there.

20:37 It's going to be scary. It's like feels official. And then it also feels like, you know, I also feel like last time we, Played L.A. and did the Orpheum. I didn't do like it was I was new at it.

20:50 Yeah.

20:50 So I wasn't on my game. It was a while ago. Yeah. And so I feel like I this is now my time.

20:55 To prove to all these L.A. people that I don't suck anymore.

20:59 Which is hilarious. No pressure.

21:02 As if you haven't been performing and posting live shows where you, it's in no way suck.

21:07 But LA doesn't know that. No, I know.

21:09 LA doesn't know anything. And that's the problem is that like, it's very, when we, when this podcast started to actually get popular in a way that that actually mattered to me where I was just like, nah, like in the beginning, I just didn't buy it.

21:23 And you would show me things. I'd just be like, this is a bunch of bullshit. And you'd be like, stop getting excited. It's going to end.

21:30 Don't be, I just needed to curb your, I want, I didn't want to see the heartbreak.

21:34 I just wanted to get it over with. Like this thing is going to fucking snap back on both of us so hard. You're going to regret the day that you were happy. You will rue the day you asked me over.

21:44 But so to have it, When something matters in LA, I just, it's like, I've lived here for 25 years.

21:51 And nothing fucking matters. Like nothing punches through. Right.

21:54 So then to actually punch through, you think that's what you want to do. Then it starts happening and you're like, oh my God.

22:00 Well, I think that's like that for anyone with success with low self-esteem or with like low self-worth is when you get success, you doubt it so much that you're like any kind of Success.

22:10 You're like, bullshit. Who's fuck?

22:13 Why are you fucking with me? You know, instead of being like, this is great. And I'm enjoying it.

22:17 Right. Because you plan for what you plan for how it's going to happen.

22:21 And like my therapist told me, I worship at the altar of doubt. And so anything good that happens, I'm like, no.

22:27 And here's why. And it's good that I feel this way.

22:29 Yeah.

22:29 Because now I'm taking care of myself. Right. It's just that it takes time to catch up.

22:34 So then I feel like I'm just catching up in these last couple days where I was like, shoot, I meant to lose 40 pounds. Oh, shoot, I meant to do this and that. Like, oh, shoot, we were going to decorate the stage or whatever. Like, it felt like we were supposed to do some big, like, we're auditioning for our own show.

22:50 It's Wednesday, and I just was like, maybe we should get our makeup done. Yeah.

22:53 And I emailed him like a friend and I'm like, she's got to have a job that day. She's not going to do it.

22:58 Here's the thing. I know it's going to be fun.

23:01 And I know that when I am nervous for something, which doesn't happen that often because I'm an old, been around the block.

23:09 You're being very mean to yourself this episode.

23:13 And I'm going to have to ask you to stop being mean to my friend.

23:17 Okay. All right. But I'm just saying. It's fun to be excited at this late date. It's going to be great. It's all people supporting us except my mom. And it's just going to be amazing. I'm just going to focus on Janet's face the whole time.

23:33 If I don't do well, she'll be so disappointed in.

23:39 Me. Jesus.

23:44 Okay, we're back. I did have a corrections corner about using the term transvestite when I meant transgender. And again, apologies for that. You know, I feel like there were so many things we were learning in the first couple years of this podcast.

24:01 Yeah. that. I'm so glad we did.

24:03 I feel like too, nowadays with the full cultural dominance of drag, everybody knows their terminology and everybody's gotten a really good education. The people that care have gotten their education about stuff like this. But I think we've proven on this show that our hearts are in the right place and that we're totally willing to learn.

24:22 Totally. And correct ourselves for sure. And yeah, it's been We've been lucky that we've been given that grace. Also on the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls, and Two-Spirit People issue, there was a major update after this episode. Canada's National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls released its final report on June 3rd, 2019. And Connie Walker also continued doing major investigative podcast work after Missing and Murdered. Her podcast, Stolen, Surviving St. Michael's, won both a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody Award in 2023.

24:56 And it was the first podcast series to win both in the same year, which is so incredible.

25:01 That's amazing.

25:02 Connie Walker's work on this topic, on the Native topics about the injustices of First Nation tribes in this country, in Canada, just in general, but I think in Canada and specifically for Connie Walker is amazing. I've been trying to work on story about residential schools for so long. And Maren and I have been working, and Molly, you know, all talking about it and working on it. But it is such a vast, like, the amount and extremity of abuse in those schools is so horrifying. It's like trying to put a concise story together, you know, from my point of view. It's taken forever because we're just like, how do we do this in a way that's actually going to be helpful to these conversations. So, you know,

25:46 until we figured out, definitely go support Connie Walker, listen to Stolen, Surviving St. Michael's, listen to Missing and Murdered. Like, a Native woman doing the work on behalf of her own people, it's really powerful.

25:59 Do you remember that LA show? I do. It was a good one.

26:03 That was the one where the house lights were basically up the entire time. I could see every single person in the audience at that show.

26:10 That makes it harder.

26:11 That really makes it harder when you can make eye contact with people in, like, the back.

26:16 Also, it was a really beautiful theater. It was very gold. Yeah.

26:20 And it kind of felt, like, very fancy that night. It was really fun.

26:25 It was cool being downtown, too, because, like, it's so historic.

26:28 You know, there's just, yeah, when we go in those old historic theaters, it makes it, it just fits our creepy-ass haunted vibe so much.

26:37 Yeah. And to do that in Los Angeles, of all places, is such an honor. Yeah, so exciting.

26:42 Okay, well, let's get into George's story about the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

26:54 I think it's you, right? Didn't I do it last time? Oh, okay. I go first this time. Yeah.

26:59 Great. This is a case that I brought up a while back and couldn't remember the name of it. And everyone told me, of course, that was listening. And I couldn't, I couldn't remember, but I was so obsessed with this when I first heard about it. So I'm so surprised I haven't done this one yet. This is the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

27:20 Okay. And the creation of Rachel's Law.

27:23 And I heavily leaned on a 2012 New Yorker magazine article called The Throwaways by Sarah Stillman. And like she wrote the piece, it like won awards.

27:34 It's so good. Okay, great. So she, listen, I just. Used a lot of her stuff. Cool. And she's, and thank you. Okay.

27:41 So Rachel Morningstar Hoffman was born December 17th, 1984. She was this bright, friendly, open, lovely person. Everyone who met her loved her.

27:53 And by 2008. Oh, so recently. Okay.

27:56 Yeah.

28:01 By 2008. So she's 23 years old. She had just graduated from Florida State University in Tallahassee.

28:08 Also where Ted.

28:08 Bundy finished up with an undergraduate degree in criminal justice and psychology. So she'd also interned as a mental health at a mental health institute. And she had just been admitted to a master's program in mental health counseling. But she was also considering culinary school because she wanted to use cooking to connect with at-risk youth and counsel them through cooking.

28:37 Wow. She's like a fucking good person. That's a great idea, too. Yeah. Right.

28:41 So picture like... young, pre, oh my God, what the fuck, Miley Cyrus. She kind of looked like that. Like, like little Hannah Montana before she transformed into Hannah, I don't know, I didn't watch the show, but I was.

28:54 Long hair? Yeah, like long, pretty red hair, cute face.

28:58 She looked like, she looked like, like a a hippie, like a hippie jock that you, you know, would know. And she liked going to like fast music festivals, but not like Coachella, you know, with the fucking not, she wasn't using, um, cultural appropriation and going to like fish concerts and jam bands and shit.

29:15 Why are you saying that? Like, that's so much better. I mean, come on. I mean, I would both rather stay home, but I'm not a 23-year-old, am I? It's not an either or. There's so many other options. You're right. She was Jewish. She had been, you know, whatever. And she had a social media account for her cats. Her cat.

29:34 Whatever 2008 social media account was, she made one for her cat.

29:38 MySpace?

29:39 Yeah, MySpace. But she'd go to.

29:42 These music festivals with all her friends and she'd always wear this crazy.

29:45 Purple fluffy hat. That was her thing.

29:48 Her signature look. So it was Jamiroquai appropriation. Exactly.

29:52 Exactly.

29:53 So she was an only child and she was close to her parents. But what they didn't know was that she was in a court ordered substance abuse program because in February of 2007, while she was a senior in college, Police had pulled her over for speeding and found almost an ounce of pot in her car.

30:11 Oh. Which isn't a lot of pot, right? I don't think so. Okay. But don't drive around with pot. Oh, no, no. No, no, don't do it. Especially in Florida. Oh, God, no. You know what I mean? Like, California, don't do it. Right. Florida, don't, don't do it. Yeah.

30:27 So it required that she take regular drug testing. So instead of being charged with anything, they just made her go to this court-ordered substance abuse program. Hawaii.

30:38 Right.

30:39 She wasn't in prison. I mean, she didn't stay there or anything like that, but she had to go. And she was keeping that from her family? I don't think they knew. I'm pretty sure they didn't know. She did smoke pot, though, regularly, and she also sold it in small quantities to her friends around campus.

30:56 College shit. I'm not fucking saying it's okay at all.

31:00 But if you're wearing a big fuzzy hat, you're probably going to sell small amounts of pot.

31:06 And smell it. And you're definitely smell like small amounts of pot.

31:09 Well, it just so happens that her neighbors a year later in April, 2008 smelled pot. It's funny that you segmented into that and coming from her apartment. And, uh, we're like, call the cops. We're like, dude, you got to check this house out. I think it's a drug house.

31:27 I know. Um, okay. Uh, and so really chill neighbors, cool, the best neighbors.

31:34 Um, I just remember when we lived in our old place and our neighbors were like up in our faces, like live so close to us. I once like yelled at some kid to be quiet because he was screaming his fucking head off and his mom yelled, I know what you guys do. Just because Boone smokes pot and she smelled it, you know?

31:53 I was like, oh no. Good comeback. I get it. You're right.

31:56 Your child should be able to scream as much as he wants because we smoke pot.

32:01 Um, okay. Okay.

32:02 So they, when they search, they searched her apartment because of this and they found, um, just under a quarter pound of weed, four ecstasy pills and two Valium pills. And I asked Vince, baby, how much is a quarter pound of marijuana? And he looked it up and told me. And he said it would cost at that time around $ 800 to $ 1, 000. So it's intent to sell probably as well.

32:25 You don't have that much pot.

32:27 Because of this, she could face serious prison time for felony charges, including possession of cannabis with intent to sell and maintaining a drug house. So she's freaking the fuck out over this. She had just gotten fucking admitted to this master's program. You know, what am I going to do?

32:43 Blah, blah, blah.

32:46 The officer in charge at this point, Ryan Pender, knew that she was just a small time drug person supplying to her friends, wasn't a fucking kingpin or whatever.

32:59 Right.

32:59 So offers to make her a deal. All she has to do is identify other marijuana drug users. dealers in town do you know this one.

33:07 I i feel like i have a shade of of it yeah um oh my god here we go yeah has to identify she just has to identify other pot dealers in town and she'll get off they won't even charge her with anything the answer has to be no always no i want a lawyer you can't be a snitch don't be a snitch.

33:26 Don't do it you don't trust that that's what's going to.

33:29 Happen right The concept of anonymity, please, from all movies and TV we know, that will be broken.

33:37 Well, here we go. Okay.

33:38 So she was like, no, I won't do that. Some of those people are her friends, and she refused to snitch on her friends. But then they were like, well, how about then instead you become a confidential informant, CI, they call them, in a drug sting operation, like a bigger one. And she thought that any charges would be reduced or even dropped. So she agreed to become a C.I.

34:01 Right.

34:02 So the next day she first tried to set up another student at Florida State who was a small time campus dealer. And she felt so guilty about it that she called the guy and was and told him what she had planned to do.

34:17 She's just like a.

34:18 Like look at her photo. She's like a sweet baby angel. And not that it's okay, but she's clearly in her fucking head.

34:24 Yes.

34:25 Well, see, that's the thing is that idea that you're going to, here's how I'm going to solve things here. I'm going to get a little extra spending money by not getting a job at Staples. What I'm going to do is, is sell small amounts of reasonable pot.

34:39 And it's like, that's fine. Except for you are now in the drug world. Exactly.

34:42 And that's how things spin out. past your control. Like you're just pretending that you will have control.

34:48 Yeah. And you keep doing that and you keep making bigger and bigger bets. Like we were talking about exactly like in Norwegian procedural dramas.

34:55 Yes. Ask, always get a lawyer immediately. Get that lawyer. Keep your mouth shut. Yeah. Um, so the guy who she called and was like, I'm sorry.

35:05 He, he forgave her, but also agreed to help her with police stuff. So he, The police had told Rachel at this point that run-of-the-mill pop bus would not fucking suffice. And they needed bigger dealers. So this was totally not Rachel's fucking thing. She didn't know bigger dealers. But the student that she had called was like, I know someone.

35:32 There's a dude at a car detailing shop near campus who he's seen dealing drugs.

35:38 And he said, I bet he can hook you up. So she didn't even know this guy. Oh, no.

35:42 So Rachel goes to the car shop and speaks with a guy. His name is Danilo Bradshaw. He's 23. And he gets his brother-in-law, Andre Green, who's 25, to help her as well. She lets them know she needs a bunch of cocaine. Fifteen hundred ecstasy pills.

36:05 Oh, no.

36:07 And as she described it, a quote, small and pretty handgun.

36:11 What?

36:12 So and they were like, why the fuck do you need you a little thing need a handgun? And she said, I'm a little Jewish girl. I need to protect myself. So this, I mean, she got caught with four XTC pills and they're giving her the total amount that they, that for all this would cost that they were going to give her was $ 13, 000. So this is an amount that is that way beyond her level of comprehension as a drug person.

36:38 Yeah.

36:38 The thinking behind this of like, we're going to get a mole and it's a person who is not truly in the drug world.

36:45 Totally. Like it's such a sideways approach. Right.

36:48 So on the afternoon of when the drug bust was supposed to go down, when she was going to bust them. So Rachel goes to the police headquarters. And Officer Pender places a surveillance wire and recording device in her purse, which I guess is totally against standard procedures. They usually hide it more and it's not in her purse.

37:06 Yeah. Which also is weird that she would have to keep her purse on her the whole time. Yes. Which probably looks suspicious.

37:11 Yeah. So they give her $ 13, 000 in marked bills. Can you imagine carrying $ 13, 000 around with you?

37:16 I did a lot. just so I can get what I want. You always need cash. I need, you always do.

37:25 I always have to borrow like dollar bills for the valet. For me, for some reason, I've never had dollar bills.

37:30 You know, it's really funny.

37:31 I can't remember what happened, but I, something happened where I didn't have use of my ATM card.

37:37 I'm sure I lost it.

37:39 Or I just, a thing I often do is just entirely blank on the pin.

37:43 Like I'll just be standing there. I'll be like, no idea what that is. Use it every day.

37:47 No idea.

37:48 Oh, I've done that like twice. But so I keep, somewhere in my home. Why would I ever say this? But I mean, I, I keep cash so that I can always have it because that's kind of my weird fear. So I also squirrel it away.

38:02 Like just put, I'll put like $ 3 bills in my car somewhere.

38:06 Do you remember where you keep all of it? No, no, no.

38:08 It's just like, I don't think about it. I don't want to look at it. It's just like, I know something is there just in case they need it.

38:13 Well, they say like for the end days, you know, like you told, keep your gas tank full, but also hide money in your house.

38:20 Hide money and make sure the money is gold doubloons because no cash money won't help you.

38:25 Well, you know, my fucking dad bought me silver. He's like, That's true.

38:30 Silver. Paper money is not going to have any value during the end days. Right. Silver will always have value. He thinks that's what's going to happen?

38:37 Uh-huh.

38:38 Why doesn't he buy you a whole bunch of bananas? Because that third Mad Max, fresh fruit was just the ultimate trading item.

38:47 Karen's on to something. Remember? Just get... I don't know if bananas have seeds or if you have to grow a tree or whatever.

38:54 Get a banana tree. There is a mini banana tree in this complex.

38:57 Is that true? Yeah. I can't imagine they're edible. Just build a little fence around it and say, please. This is mine. Put a post-it note that says, this is my yogurt. Don't eat these bananas.

39:09 I have a lemon tree, but that's just going to give me a bunch of canker sores.

39:13 I want it. No, everyone's going to need a, what's it called? Citrus? Yeah, but the vitamin C. So they don't get scurvy?

39:20 Yeah.

39:20 Okay, then I have to build my fence out around my lemon tree now. And we're going to drink your pool water. Yeah. Frank already drinks the pool water all the time. Fucking Frank. jacuzzi cat drinks the fucking pool water too.

39:32 And they they do it i'm i can guarantee you that the owner of jacuzzi cat there they have like a one of those water things that has like a waterfall in it and they still won't drink that.

39:42 Stuff animals Am I right? Make them a MySpace page.

39:48 My cats already have an Instagram account. OK, so they the police assure her that they're that they would be watching her the entire time and listening. There were 19 law enforcement agents tracking her and a Drug Enforcement Administration surveillance plan plan or plane was circling overhead.

40:06 So they she thought that they were she was taken care of. Right.

40:11 So she's supposed to meet the guys, the drug dealers, at a public park. And then all these weird things happen like on her way there, or maybe she had met them and they're like, let's go to a different location, which she wasn't supposed to do. Um, they go to that location and then the agents had, you know, she had been breaking up because it was like an outdoor park.

40:31 There's not a lot of sales service. It was not an indoor park. It was not. Wow. There was not the bio dome. It wasn't. Um, this is the saddest thing.

40:43 Her boyfriend, when she texted him that she's on her way, her boyfriend joked, uh.

40:48 Texted, I kind of like you, so be safe. Oh no.

40:53 So then she, so she loses contact with the officer while she's on her way to the second location. And by the time he hears from her again, she tells him that she's following them to another location. And this one's at the end of a dead end, uh, road. Uh, And before, this is what officer Pender says, before he tell her not to go, knowing that a dead end road is a really bad thing to be caught in, he loses contact with her completely again.

41:22 But she didn't know that they had lost contact with her. Yeah, because she's not a fucking cop. She's not a trained anything. Exactly. Oh, she didn't know they lost contact?

41:31 She didn't know that they couldn't even hear her wire. Because how would she know?

41:35 Right.

41:35 Because she had been on the cell phone with her that dies and she's like, well, I'm still wired, so.

41:40 So she didn't know.

41:41 And there was a helicopter at some point, so they must be monitoring me in some way.

41:45 Right.

41:47 So at this point, officers begin frantically searching the area, trying to find her. And the DEA plane circles overhead, but there's like, because it's an outdoor park, there's all this dense brush overhead so they can't see anything. Um, by the time they find the road and the turnoff, Rachel and her car gone, everyone's gone. And instead they found a spent 25 caliber round and two live ammunition rounds, six cigarette butts and a single black flip-flop, which Rachel had been wearing.

42:19 When she left the station.

42:20 Oh no.

42:22 I remember reading about this when it happened in 2008.

42:24 So I was like 28 and like just being so sad, but also I was picturing her and what, and how that, how, you know, when she knew something was going down and how awful that would have felt, but also, you know, I had dabbled in drugs before and how easily I, you know, she was this Jewish girl who was just fucking around and having this time in her life when she was trying something new and made bad decisions, which I totally did too. Yeah.

42:53 There's no reason I, I wouldn't have been in that situation as well. Right.

42:56 So it's, it's just, And it's the thing of which, which happens to people, uh, of all walks of life all the time, which is you did a bad, we caught you doing a very minor bad thing.

43:07 Your life's ruined.

43:08 Or now you have to get involved in this other thing that you like.

43:13 Now you just have no choice. Now you're kind of our pawn. Right. And just so frightening. Yeah. Just that feeling of having no choice and no way to get out of a situation.

43:23 Yeah.

43:23 You always do. Even if it's fucking going to jail for nine months, uh, you know, it happens.

43:29 Take the hit like Henry Hill and just fucking do your time.

43:32 And what am I saying? I would never. Karen's going out in a blaze. I mean, no way. No way. I'm going back to jail. No way. Okay.

43:44 Uh, so at this point, Rachel had been working as a CI for the police department for almost three weeks.

43:50 That's it. And she, and yeah. So Let's fucking veer off and talk about CIs for a minute. Rachel was just one.

43:58 And this whole article, this amazing article by Sarah Stillman has a lot of information about this. I'm just kind of picking some parts, obviously. So Rachel was just one of thousands of people every year that helped police build cases.

44:13 In exchange for leniency of their own cases, as we know.

44:17 And it's estimated up to 80% of all drug cases in America involve CIs. Yeah.

44:22 That's crazy. 80%? 80%.

44:25 And this is partly because police departments have these crazy budget issues. They don't have the kind of money to get undercover officers. And untrained CIs are the only way they can bust these people. And it's a small town. They know the cops. Everyone knows who the cops are. They're not going to send one of them in a fucking fake mustache and be like, I'll have some drugs, please.

44:44 Yeah, you can't just Donnie Brasco it up when you're in like small town America.

44:48 Exactly.

44:49 But it also means that they're sending out untrained, sometimes juvenile, juvenile, juvenile.

44:54 I thought you were going to say sometimes Jewish. Sometimes even Jewish. Can you believe it?

45:02 Occasionally as young as 14 or 15.

45:04 No.

45:05 Sometimes addicted people. To do and place them as undercover officers.

45:10 Yeah.

45:11 So another factor that came into play with this whole fucking fiasco is that the is the war on drugs.

45:18 Yeah.

45:18 Remember our favorite fucking topic.

45:20 Yeah. In the mid 80s, Congress enacted federal sentencing guidelines that imposed harsh mandatory minimums for even fucking petty drug offenses. Which means that some sentences for marijuana sales were longer than those for murder.

45:33 Yeah. It's horrifying. It's ridiculous. And of course, that meant that the U.S.

45:38 Prison population over the course of that decade doubled and drug informants surged.

45:45 But the problem with the CI system is that it's totally unreliable.

45:49 It's usually young people from lower income communities, often black and Latino, who are under pressure to be informants because they face, you know, so much more if they get caught with these drugs and if they get put to take them to jail and.

46:04 You know, they have no choice.

46:06 Yes. But to do this, uh, in one fucking insane case, LeBron, uh, Gaither, he's a 16 year old student at a public high school in Lebanon, Kentucky, uh, So in a uncharacteristic of him, he gets in an argument with his school's assistant principal and punches him in the face. Oh, uh, he's taken into custody for juvenile assault and without a lawyer or parent present, the, an officer from the Kentucky state police tells him he could go to prison. Uh, but he, if, unless he agreed to become a local drug informant. So this isn't even a fucking drug charge. Um, After a sting, LeBron had to testify before a grand jury against the drug dealer he'd set up, Jason Noel. Jason Noel then makes bail. And the very next day, the police send

46:58 LeBron back to him to do another sting on the guy he had just testified against, thinking that he didn't know who was the snitch.

47:07 What?

47:08 So they sent LeBron wearing a wire to buy more drugs from LeBron. this dude, it turns out that of course, Jason Noel, the drug dealer knew that LeBron was the one who was snitching on him because everyone finds out everything. Right.

47:22 Well, and also those drug dealers, it's their business. Right. Right. They have to be like three steps ahead. Yeah.

47:29 And it's like, if it was another officer that was being sent out undercover, his officer buddies would fucking make sure he was safe, but it's just some person that they don't care about and are not, you know, it's not their business to, make sure that this person is neither trained nor really safe. Right. Okay. So, so detectives lose track of LeBron and, uh, during the sting and Jason Noel drives off with him, LeBron is tortured, beaten with a bat shot, run over by a car and dragged by a chain through the woods and dies. And it wasn't until 2014. So this was in, um, I think it's 98. I didn't write it down. 2014, 18 years after his death. Yeah.

48:16 What's the math? No idea.

48:18 The Supreme Court ruled in favor of his. So they fucking ruled in favor of his family in wrongful death. It got over fucking turned. Well, it's so frustrating. Then finally, the Supreme Court overturned that overturning rule.

48:32 And in his.

48:32 Wrongful death suit, and they're awarded $ 148, 000, which is not enough.

48:39 None of it is enough, obviously.

48:40 But I bet you that's that thing of when they're, they've built a system around this kind of, like these kind of setups.

48:48 Yeah.

48:48 So when that system crumbles, they have to make sure people can't then retroactively sue them.

48:54 Right. Because there could be so many people that could do that. Yeah.

48:57 Have you, I mean, people tweet these things on Twitter all the time where, Like in California and places where drugs, you know, pot's legal or becoming legal or whatever. There's these people who are like, here's this woman who made $ 3 million in her new pot business of making edibles.

49:13 Aren't these cute?

49:14 And then it's like, and here's this black teenager who was sent to jail for.

49:18 50 years because they dealt.

49:20 Pot.

49:20 And it's like, there's somebody who tweets it all the time, but it's really mind blowing of like that white cultural filter of when white people make pot for each other, it's cool because we have cancer and we have pain and CBD oil and blah, blah, blah. And when black people deal pot, you're a criminal and.

49:39 You should be, you should go away to jail forever. And it's super fucked up.

49:42 I mean, and then in a, in a couple of years, in a decade and two, like when pot is decriminalized everywhere, if we're going to look back and be horrified at how we've been treating people who are addicted and smoke pot and, I mean, more than anything, that's the problem is you need to treat the people who are addicted to drugs and need help rather than.

50:04 I wouldn't prioritize pot in that because that's so many people are able to live their lives doing pot. There's people who are on Oxycontin who drive like city buses and shit. Like there's an Oxycontin problem in this country that's ravaging like certain states. And I mean, that's, you know, the war on drugs is almost like bit itself in the ass because now we just have pharmaceutical companies that are like, oh.

50:30 Our drugs are fine. Yeah. You can't do those drugs.

50:33 And we'll pay the doctors money if they prescribe them, even though they're not necessary and they know they're addictive and we're lying to you about how fucking addictive they are.

50:40 Mm-hmm. It's very dark. It's very dark. It's fucked. I watch Intervention. I'm going to watch all those shows. Okay.

50:49 There's also a case, and this, so LeBron was African-American. Shelly Hilliard, she's an African-American teen from Detroit, and she was caught with half an ounce of marijuana, which is not a lot, threatened with jail time, but it was especially scary for her because she is trans and And so she would have been sent to a.

51:11 Male prison, which is super scary for her.

51:14 So she agrees to become a CI. They set her up to set up her drug dealer. He finds out and ultimately strangles, mutilates, burns, and dismembers.

51:27 Shelly's body because she set him up.

51:30 One witness in the murder case testifies that the police had revealed Shelly's identity to her dealer.

51:36 What? All for an ounce of weed.

51:40 I mean, I know. Okay.

51:41 Back to Rachel.

51:42 Okay.

51:43 So the morning after her disappearance, she's disappeared. The cops call her parents and they're like, Hey, have you seen Rachel? Do you know where she is? Yeah. And they don't even, yeah.

51:55 So they're like, what the fuck? They go to Tallahassee. They're only told that Rachel is missing. Not that she was a CI, um, or the circumstances of her disappearance. They don't tell her them, her parents, anything. They go back to Rachel's apartment to wait and, you know, for next steps or whatever. They turn on the news and that's when they discover that she had, quote, provided assistance during a police operation.

52:18 But they find out on TV. On the TV.

52:20 And that then they find out that the officials suspect foul play is going on.

52:25 So they don't even know that there was foul play.

52:27 Yeah.

52:29 So then on May 9th, 2008, after a two-day search, after Rachel disappears, the two suspects are caught near Orlando and they lead police to a dry creek bed in rural Taylor County, which is southeast of Tallahassee, where Rachel's body is found.

52:45 Wow.

52:46 It turns out Rachel, and then it turns out that the two drug dealers had fucking pegged her as a mark from the beginning. And they had never intended to sell her any drugs. All the ecstasy was fucking aspirin. So they were going to trick her to begin with. So it was even a stupid fucking thing to begin with. Um, and then it's, it's totally, it's not totally clear because no one knows exactly what happened, but it's thought that they found the wire in her purse and, uh, freaked the fuck out. They shot her five times in the head and chest. So at a press conference at the fucking scene, while her body is still there, officer Dave McCraney McCraney of the Tallahassee police department says, quote, at

53:29 some point during the investigation, she chose not to follow the instructions. She met Green and Bradshaw on her own. That meeting ultimately resulted in her murder. So they're immediately saying it was her own fault because she went to another location. Which is like, can you imagine if she went to one location and they were like, let's go to another one, and she was like, no, and refused to?

53:49 Right. And she thinks there's a plane, there's 19 officers, she's being followed. She's never done this before. She's never done this before. Yeah.

54:00 And friends and family of Rachel are fucking pissed that the police were trying to portray her also as a hardcore drug dealer, like criminal, even though she had never been convicted of any crimes. Um, and in the media and that because she didn't follow directions, her murder was her own fault. That's what they were trying to make it seem. Uh, Rachel's parents are fucking pissed. Um, so Irv Hoffman and Margie Weiss, they decided to put all their energy into making policy changes to the way CIs are used. So they wanted answers to questions like, why was Rachel used in such a high-risk police thing when she had no training? Why was she sent to buy a semi-automatic pistol when she had never even fired a

54:39 fucking weapon before? Why was she pressured into taking part in all of this before she consulted a lawyer? And they're also not read Miranda rights and not given their amendment fucking things because they're not under arrest.

54:54 Oh, right. So it's basically like, look, if you want this to go away, it's under the table. Right. You're not under arrest. So maybe they don't think to ask for a lawyer.

55:04 They want policy changes to the program, like not using people in drug treatment programs, which makes sense because part of being in a drug treatment program is you're not allowed to hang out and associate with people who are dealing and doing drugs in the first place. And that non-violent low-level drug offenders like Rachel should not be used in stings targeting traffickers with histories of violence. Additionally, CIs should be given the right to counsel. That was their thoughts.

55:36 And then they found out that California was one of the few states that had any rules governing the use of teenage informants. and prohibited recruits younger than 13, which like, isn't a great, like.

55:47 That's just cut it off at junior high, like that.

55:51 And they're the best example of doing well, which I was 13 when I was using drugs and they could have fucking had me rat on all those kids.

55:59 I was also when you're 13, like, Oh yeah, that's not good. Like that idea that you're just going to like, yep, yep. We're going to blackmail this This like, we're going to.

56:08 Blackmail this teenager to get another teenager to get the whatever year old who sells a little more pot in this town, who sells a little more pot in this town, which is like, you're not getting, you're not getting enough to street who's a danger. You're fucking just perpetuating this thing of, you know, then these kids get out of prison and they can't get a job because they have a record. And so California 13, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

56:32 That rule had been put into place after 17-year-old Chad McDonald was brutally murdered and his 15-year-old girlfriend raped and shot in retaliation for Chad's work as a low-level drug CI in 1998.

56:45 Oh, my God. Yeah.

56:47 So they had made this kid, Chad, be a CI, but everyone knew he was dealing meth and doing meth at the time. And the police actually knew that, too, but still used him. And everyone knew he was the snitch.

57:01 And that still happened. Okay.

57:03 So Rachel's parents began working on Rachel's Law, and they got the father of one of Rachel's friends was a Florida attorney named Lance Block.

57:11 He agreed to work pro bono to help them.

57:14 And on May 7, 2009, on the one-year anniversary of Rachel's murder, Rachel's Law is signed by the governor of Florida, but it's stripped of so many provisions.

57:25 It's so basic. But it does establish.

57:28 New guidelines for law enforcement when dealing with confidential informants. So it does start the conversation of changing the way it's done. And it's the first comprehensive legislation of its kind in the nation. And they're still working to get policy reforms on a national level. So they're still fucking working on it. And in 2012, in a wrongful death lawsuit, Rachel's parents won 2.6 million settlement from the city of Tallahassee, along with a formal apology.

58:00 Wow. Sounds way different than what LeBron got. Yeah. Well, I mean, of course.

58:05 Yeah.

58:07 Of the police.

58:08 Department's conduct, the grand jury, who are not like Judge Judy, and they don't fucking usually tell people what, you know what I mean?

58:14 Yeah.

58:14 They said, quote, letting a young, immature woman get into a car by herself with $ 13, 000 to go off and meet two convicted felons that they knew were bringing at least one firearm with them was an unconscionable decision that cost Ms. Hoffman her life. And an internal affairs investigation said that police officers had committed at least 21 violations and nine.

58:41 Separate policies with this case.

58:43 Wow.

58:45 So Green and Bradshaw are now serving life sentences for the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

58:49 And I.

58:52 Think her parents put together an annual music and arts festival called the Purple Hatter's Ball. Because remember, she wore that purple hat.

59:02 Yeah.

59:03 And it's created to celebrate the memory of Rachel. It's fucking her favorite jam bands. And it's like Facebook. painting and all these lovely things um and uh everyone wears purple And the next festival is in Live Oak, Florida this June 1st and 2nd of 2018. So murderinos. And she was a fucking criminal justice major. So, you know, she was into true crime probably. So that was the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

59:31 Amazing. So sad. So sad. And frustrating. Frustrating.

59:36 Yeah.

59:36 Yeah. Okay, we're back. Do you have any updates?

59:43 No updates, but I was just thinking about reading the story again or listening to the story again, how cool that this podcast was for us to cover these cases that had been in our heads for so long and had nowhere to go. Because this is one of those cases where I read about it and read about it and I was like, what the fuck? I want to talk to someone about this. And then being able to cover it is just like the whole point, I guess.

1:00:09 Right. Right. It feels like you're getting it out there, making sure people know about it. Yeah, because it's just so fucking corrupt and fucked up and sad.

1:00:16 And, you know, those stories where you're like, I could see that happening to me or I could see how that would happen.

1:00:22 And it's just getting her story out. Yeah, it's important.

1:00:26 And hoping it never happens again. But all right, let's get into Karen's story. This is a big one. The death of Bonnie Lee Bakley.

1:00:40 OK, so this I'm doing this story this week because I mentioned it last time.

1:00:47 It's the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Yes.

1:00:50 And and the, you know, eventual trial of famous Hollywood actor Robert Blake.

1:00:57 Fuck yes, Karen.

1:00:58 And it centers around one of the most popular and exciting Italian restaurants in the Valley, Vitello's.

1:01:04 It's gone, right? No, I think they redid it. It's still there. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's just totally different now because it used to be like divey. Well, it used to be like, you know what it was?

1:01:14 It was like, clearly it was like built in the 60s, 70s, probably early 70s, I would say.

1:01:20 Okay.

1:01:20 So the inside was, like.

1:01:23 These big Naugahyde booths that were, like, red plastic fake leather.

1:01:28 Love it. There's a huge, like, wall... you know fresco or whatever you want to.

1:01:35 Call it exactly right of uh like i don't know i can't remember if it was like venice.

1:01:40 And grapes or every grapes are draped on everything and they're dusty because no one ever cleans.

1:01:46 Them yeah like literal like plastic grapes like look at the bounty of milan or i mean wherever.

1:01:52 Yeah and they have like a house a glass of house chianti for three dollars or.

1:01:56 Whatever yes And they have those like melty red candles. It's just the whole, it's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant. And the food, like the, the garlic bread is just a big loaf of sourdough cut in half with garlic on it.

1:02:10 I love old school places like this so fucking much. I want to cry.

1:02:13 Yeah.

1:02:14 It's, you know, exactly what you're going to get. And Vitello's is good food.

1:02:18 Is it?

1:02:18 Cause I don't even care if it's like a If it's the fucking ambiance is on point, I'm good.

1:02:24 Well, do you like opera singers because they have that? Shut up. Yes, they'll have all of a sudden an opera singer will bust out singing. Can I tell you something really quickly?

1:02:31 Do you know the one that's just like this on Vermont called Stephen? You know.

1:02:38 Oh. Hold on. It's on Vermont. Dresden? No, it's on Vermont across from the House of Pies. We go there all... Vince and I used to go there. Oh, yes. It's... We used to order pizza from there when I lived on Alexandria.

1:02:49 Yeah.

1:02:49 Hold on. Cut this. It's like Domino's. It's like... It's not Domino's. It's... I mean, no, not Domino's, but like... It's called... The P? P... Pichelli? Pitz.

1:03:00 Pitz.

1:03:02 I... Yeah, I know. Sorry, we can cut this out. Why am I doing this? Palermos. Palermos. That's right. You did it. Palermos. Leave it in. Palermos. Just like that.

1:03:14 Also, when you go in and you're waiting for your table, you can get a glass of like dollar boxed wine.

1:03:19 It's like the best.

1:03:20 So one time, once I went there the first time, we're like, this place is amazing. Uh, and it was a Friday night.

1:03:25 So they had their, a guy with a.

1:03:28 Um, what are they called? An accordion accordion walking around singing at tables. And I go, oh my God, that guy fucking was the entertainment at my brother's bar mitzvah.

1:03:40 No. I was like, is your name fucking Israel? Whatever it was. And he was like freaking out too. And it was, it was him. And I took a photo of him and he's like, I remember your brother.

1:03:50 No, you don't.

1:03:51 Uh, that's amazing. No, you know what it is?

1:03:54 It's the not chain hometown restaurant, In Petaluma, it's Volpe's where we go with my family. And half of it is the original grocery store from the 20s.

1:04:07 Oh, my God.

1:04:09 That they took the like counter out and put in tables so that you're sitting in the old grocery store.

1:04:14 I'm dying. It's really awesome.

1:04:16 And that's up the street from that hotel, Petaluma Hotel, I.

1:04:19 Want you to stay at. I'm going to come with you to Petaluma one day.

1:04:21 Oh, when we do our Sacramento show, we should stay a night.

1:04:24 We can stay at Laura's. Okay. Totally. Totally. But anyway, that's, that's, so that's Vitello's.

1:04:30 It's, it's neighborhood-y. It's very Italian. Like it's, it's, if you like kiss your fingers, you know, style Italian bullshit, that's, it's there for you.

1:04:41 Is that their saying?

1:04:42 Yes.

1:04:43 That's actually painted on the sign. If you like kiss your fingers style Italian bullshit, this is your jam, maroo. Um, so this was the play. Okay.

1:04:53 So let's just get into this fucking thing because it's so insane.

1:04:59 So we'll just talk first about Robert Blake. He's a famous actor.

1:05:02 And up until this point, he was kind of one of those, he was like a Hollywood stalwart, I would say.

1:05:08 He started, he was one of the kids on our gang. Oh, really? Yeah.

1:05:13 He was in the Little Rascals original, they called them the film series.

1:05:17 Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah.

1:05:18 And it was basically, he grew up, he was born in Nutley, New Jersey to a vaudeville family.

1:05:24 Oh, shit.

1:05:24 His father was an actor and an alcoholic, abusive.

1:05:28 An asshole, mom unfeeling.

1:05:32 And the three siblings, they had a little like a vaudeville show with the little kids called The Three Little Hillbillies.

1:05:41 Put them to work. Right.

1:05:42 So they he's and he described his childhood as feeling like he was like a like a monkey with a monkey grinder. Like he was just out there begging for change around town in Nutley, New.

1:05:54 Jersey, which is horrifying. Yeah.

1:05:57 Sorry.

1:05:58 I got all of the things I'm telling you right now from a show that I couldn't love the title of more, Rich and Acquitted. Oh my God. Spoiler alert. Well, now we know. But I mean, yeah, but we knew because this was a famous case anyway. Why didn't that show in any Emmys?

1:06:14 I mean, it's so funny because it's when I when I look this up on YouTube, there's like a whole there's a whole realm of rich and acquitted. And and they're real because I when I first started listening to it, I was like, God, they're being real judgy about like money and they keep talking about his money. And then it's basically talking about how when you have money, the entire justice system works totally differently. for you and the whole approach and strategy to the justice system. So system, I'm not drunk. So, so the three little hillbillies have, uh, you know, minor success in Nutley, New Jersey and the surrounding area. So then, but it's, it's the, um, mid thirties.

1:06:57 So because it's after the depression, the movie business is exploding. Everyone's like, I've got, I do have 25 extra cents.

1:07:05 I want to spend it on entertainment. I want things to be fun.

1:07:08 I want to go and like watch the Ziegfeld Follies or whatever, something big in a, in a movie theater and have a good time. So his father moves the whole family out to Hollywood because he thinks he's going to be the movie star.

1:07:23 Bad news. They're so poor. They sleep in the car.

1:07:27 You know, it's really hard, but the father gets a job in a hardware store and he, Mickey was his name at the time. Mickey Gubitose was his original name.

1:07:38 Is Robert Blake's name?

1:07:39 Is Robert Blake's real name. He was born as Mickey Gubitose. Mickey Gubitose, he's five years old when he gets the job on the Our Gang series. And he starts as an extra and they showed clips on the show and he is the cutest. You see him, he's got this little twinkle in his eye, but he's also like, he's like a little tough guy and it's so cute. And then with all, I mean, our gang, if you go back, if you ever have a free day and you just want to have some dumb fun, the our gang series was the cutest, sweetest thing. And all those little kids were really talented. Now there is extreme fucking racism because it was the thirties.

1:08:19 Yeah.

1:08:19 But the cool thing was, or I won't say cool, but the thing that made it slightly different was that Buckwheat was.

1:08:26 One of their friends and hung around. Right, right. But, you know, there's also, as anything from before 1995, it's, you know, a different time. Anyhow, so he basically, he's the one that makes it big.

1:08:41 And he, from our gang, when that's over, he kind of like, basically emancipates himself, runs away from home.

1:08:51 He joins the army. He ends up marrying a woman named Sondra Kerr. He has two kids with her, starts this family. It looks like he's about to fade into obscurity as like a character actor that like was a child actor, you know? Yeah. Because people, it was really cool.

1:09:06 They had interviews with like other little kids that had been on that series that grew up to also be actors.

1:09:12 So you could recognize them.

1:09:13 As they were talking and they were talking about how Robert Blake as a child actor was really good. He was a really good actor. He was a really serious child, um, Like he was there to like kill it.

1:09:23 Yeah.

1:09:24 Which is very taking it seriously. Exactly. Not just because his parents wanted him to. Right.

1:09:28 Not just because he would get the shit beaten out of him when he went home. But, but it's just that thing where, you know, like when those, when little kids have it, that kind of like, why am I looking at that kid?

1:09:39 There's six kids and that's the one that's caught my eye. He was that.

1:09:44 So, um, right as he begins to fade into into obscurity he gets that part in in cold blood whoa and if you haven't seen the movie that robert blake stars robert blake stars as you know one of the two killers in in cold blood and he's so good and it's really i only saw a clip of it i've never seen the entire movie starts finish yeah but it's really amazing i think i.

1:10:06 Watched it but didn't realize it was him and you don't watch it again.

1:10:09 Yeah because it's old it's like a thing you'd see on amc yeah um But it's really good. Also, and then it started making me think of how much I loved the version with.

1:10:18 Toby, that British actor. Keith McGuire. Keith. Someone make that, please.

1:10:29 That short British actor that's in... He's been in tons of stuff.

1:10:33 He's so good. And he plays....

1:10:37 Truman Capote you remember that one and they go out to start interviewing the families it shows how Truman Capote wrote that book it's such a.

1:10:45 Good movie what's his face? Philip Seymour Hoffman did one version so there was one with Philip Seymour Hoffman and there was another one with Sandra Bullock and Tobey Maguire no British Tobey Stephen's going to find it once he's done grooming his mustache David. Toby. Keith. Oh, Toby Jones. Toby Jones. No. Don't know who that is. No. No. Yeah, yeah.

1:11:16 But he's such a good actor. He's in everything. Okay. And that, oh, Infamous is the name of the biopic.

1:11:22 Okay.

1:11:22 From 2006.

1:11:23 But then there's also the Philip Seymour Hoffman one, which is Give It a Look-See.

1:11:29 It's good. I liked it.

1:11:31 I just love that story that, you know, somebody like, Truman Capote was just such a insane one of a kind beyond belief. That was a sidebar to beat all sidebars because basically he's in cold blood. He comes back and that that kind of brings his relevance back. And then he gets the lead on the cop show Beretta.

1:11:53 Yeah.

1:11:53 Do you remember that show? I was too young.

1:11:56 You were definitely too young because I was like it was just in my consciousness that That was like such a mid-70s show. Yeah.

1:12:04 But Beretta was the cop that had the parrot.

1:12:06 And so if you remember, he was like the Italian-looking cop with a white parrot.

1:12:11 On his shoulder. What the fuck?

1:12:13 And he kind of had that Columbo-y thing where he was like, yeah, man, you know.

1:12:17 Yeah. And every man, I guess, is what that impression just was.

1:12:25 But you can look up old episodes of Beretta. And if only for the opening theme song.

1:12:30 How's it go?

1:12:31 The full version is recorded by Sammy Davis Jr.

1:12:36 Holy shit. And it's called Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow. And it's like, keep your eye on the sparrow. You have to look it up. It's happening. It's so like....

1:12:48 Disco 70s look at the like hardcore fucking like weird solo bongos at the beginning they're like here we go the streets keep your yes yeah yes you have it holy shit maybe i do know it This show had everything. And he ended up winning an Emmy for that role. I think that show went on for four years, whatever.

1:13:08 So he basically then becomes a hit and he invests his money wisely and he builds his wealth. And he also became a fixture on The Tonight Show.

1:13:19 And so once Beretta was over, he was still like.

1:13:22 A big presence in Hollywood. And in the winter of the year 2000, he.

1:13:33 He goes to a jazz.

1:13:34 Club one night, and he meets a woman named Bonnie Lee Bakley. And they hit it off immediately.

1:13:40 And she didn't know he was a celebrity.

1:13:46 She actually had to call her sister and say, have you ever heard of this name? Because he's saying he's famous. But that was in Rich and Acquitted.

1:13:53 Yes. But they really did hit it off.

1:13:57 Then at the end of the night, no judgment, they go out to his van and do it.

1:14:02 No. Like the alley behind the jazz club. What?

1:14:06 That's the first night they met. is, is they did that. So then there, that is where their fate is sealed. That's where in the alley, in the alley behind a jazz club in the picture that they showed on rich and acquitted. It was this purple van on these big old, like jacked up wheels.

1:14:25 Oh my God.

1:14:25 It, it looks, it's like half Scooby-Doo half like monster truck rally. You're like, where did you get this fucking car? If you invested your money so goddamn wisely. All right.

1:14:38 In 2000, too. This car is from 2000.

1:14:40 Yeah, that's a good point.

1:14:43 This is not the 70s we're talking about. It's not Beretta anymore.

1:14:46 No.

1:14:47 But he was truly keeping his eye on the Sparrow. And keeping it real. Keeping it real in the alley. That's right.

1:14:53 So now let's switch over to this woman, this romance that he's having with Bonnie Lee Bakley. So she was born in 1956 in Morristown, New Jersey. She was also poor growing up.

1:15:06 They're both from New Jersey.

1:15:07 Both from New Jersey, about 20 years apart or so. She has a fascinating history. And this woman, if you want to talk about somebody that got fucking maligned after her own death, Bonnie Lee Bakley, we all heard every single thing this woman ever did. She was not there to defend herself or even just be a presence. Now, she did a bunch of fucked up shit, and that ended up getting proven in court. Before she met Robert Blake.

1:15:40 But as the cops said in Rich and Acquitted, doesn't mean she deserved to get murdered.

1:15:45 Totally.

1:15:46 And it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean she's any less of a victim.

1:15:51 Right.

1:15:53 I just remember when this case started, how often they talked like on the radio and, you know, like Howard Stern style talk shit on this woman.

1:16:02 Yeah.

1:16:04 And apparently it was the lawyer's plan from the beginning.

1:16:08 No. Yes.

1:16:09 They were ready once the indictment came or the charges were filed.

1:16:15 The lawyer had it all ready of like, well, here's the victim. Wow. And here's her past. It's pretty intense. So now.

1:16:23 Going back to where she came from, she was married for the first time and divorced when she was 15.

1:16:29 Oh, honey. Then she dropped out of high school after she had a marriage and a divorce. Sweetie. What I estimate to be sophomore year. Yeah. Then she was like, you know what? I'm past high school now. She's like, when am I going to go back to high school? When are we going to go to the spring formal? I don't think so. I'm a divorcee. I'm above you all.

1:16:53 Oh my God. So she moves to New York City. She wants to be a model. She's really beautiful. She has great features.

1:17:00 She's kind of a like bottle blonde, but in that, you know, she's like got this big open face. She wants to be a model. She wants to be an actress. And she goes right for those nudes. She's like, she just, she's like, I'm ready to do it.

1:17:14 I want to do it. And let's do this thing. She....

1:17:19 Nothing pans out, which sometimes happens when you take Nance. People are just like, yep, put him in the pile with the other Nance.

1:17:26 Sure. She ends up marrying her second husband was her first cousin. No, don't do that. Yeah, she did it. And she had three kids with him. No, don't do that either. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. They did that. Like what around year is this? This is the, sorry. 70s-ish? This is like the early 70s. Oh, and they're having cousin kids.

1:17:46 Cousin kids and kind of like a, I want to be famous, but maybe I'll just do this instead.

1:17:51 That's all fine, but don't marry your cousin. Right. Do whatever the fuck you want. Don't marry your cousin. Here's what's kind of cool.

1:18:00 So she has all these pictures that she took trying to get break into show business. Essentially, she's a visionary. She starts a mail order, nude photo mailing like service.

1:18:12 Yes.

1:18:13 She puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines. That's like, hey, here's me. Do you want me to send you my nude photos? Write to me here and send me this amount of money.

1:18:22 So smart. She starts fucking making bank on this business. Yes. Good for her.

1:18:27 So they're like, I love nudes. I was just reading this whole magazine of nudes. I'd love more nudes.

1:18:31 Yeah. From your home. Right. And she's like, I've got this. So she.

1:18:38 eventually makes so much money off of this business she can buy several homes in the memphis area oh my god yeah so she's she's she's supporting that family she's like getting it done.

1:18:50 We're in the wrong business i mean you have to be willing to in some of the pictures because there's exercise so Pass. Get on all fours with a cowboy hat on and nothing else. Oh, no, I don't want to do that. There was a lot of that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, like campy shit.

1:19:07 It seemed very, it was like 70s porn had an innocence about it, where it was kind of like, look at me with no shirt on.

1:19:14 That's how a lot of those pictures felt. Yeah, I've seen Debbie Does Dallas.

1:19:17 Have you? Yeah. Is it good? No. It's fun. Good storyline, though. The best. Powerful ending. Spoiler alert, Debbie Does Dallas. Well, no way. the whole nighttime soap opera. Okay.

1:19:31 So now this is fascinating and it kind of shows you the mindset, but also like, you know, she's from Tennessee. She's living in Tennessee at this point, right. In the Memphis area, Memphis, Tennessee, just double checking with myself. Um, And she's trying, she still has that thing of like celebrity. She's always been obsessed with celebrity ever since she was a little kid.

1:19:55 She wanted it.

1:19:56 She wanted to be around it. She wanted to be near it. So she gets this idea in her head. I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis.

1:20:03 What?

1:20:03 Yes.

1:20:04 Cousins. He loves cousins. She loves cousins. That's right. In 1989. So she's 33 years old. She's been married four times. Holy shit. She's been arrested for drugs. Okay. Which it's the seventies. It's going to happen. Or well now it's the late eighties.

1:20:18 Okay.

1:20:19 But the 70s have existed. So I'm giving her a pass, I guess. The 80s were even worse. The 80s were a bit nuts.

1:20:28 But so it's 1989 is when she gets this Jerry Lee Lewis plan. And she actually ends up hanging out and like sidling up. And she's a gorgeous woman. So like she eventually meets him. She gets to hang out with him a little bit. I guess she ends up hooking up with him. She gets pregnant and tells.

1:20:46 Him it's her baby. It's his baby. Yeah. It's his baby. She's like, look, this is my baby. I hope it's her baby. And there's no way you can prove me wrong. And Jerry Lou Lewis is like, sounds great. Shit, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I keep hitting the mic. No, that's okay. Okay.

1:21:02 So basically, Jerry Lou Lewis is like, why don't you go ahead and take a paternity test for that baby?

1:21:07 Did they have those in 89? Yeah.

1:21:08 They were very popular back then. And of course, he was not the father.

1:21:13 Oh, man.

1:21:13 So that.

1:21:15 She basically... Takes her fourth husband and is like, we're moving to California. Like, she just gets out. And I should actually have you look this up because this is the best.

1:21:25 Bonnie Lee Bakley.

1:21:26 She takes all that money from her home nudes business and buys herself a billboard.

1:21:32 On Sunset.

1:21:35 Strip.

1:21:35 Like Angeline style? Yeah.

1:21:37 Angelina style, except for it's just on the right side. It's her headshot, her 80s headshot. She's just like, and then it just says Lee Bonnie. That was her stage name. Lee Bonnie with a phone number underneath it.

1:21:49 Can I see this? I need to see this immediately.

1:21:50 It's really, it's so 80s to me. It's just very like. Look, here's an actress on a billboard. So, Angeline, if you're not from L.A.

1:21:58 Oh, yeah. But you've seen her.

1:21:59 Like, if they're going to do the beginning of a Hollywood movie, they will cut to an Angeline billboard. And that's that lady with the insane breast implants.

1:22:07 She's got the 80s. She looks like the rocker chick who would hang out at, like, the Whiskey.

1:22:13 Yes.

1:22:14 In the 80s, who would, like, hook up with metal dudes. Metal dudes. She's got a big... kind of baby face, tons of blonde hair. That was a.

1:22:24 Staple of my childhood when we come to L.A., to my grandma's house, Angeline had a billboard there.

1:22:30 And I was just like, I want to be like her when I grow up.

1:22:32 Right.

1:22:33 And I am. Look at you. Look at you. And you saw yourself in that British tabloid. You've made it.

1:22:40 Well, also, she was being bankrolled by some businessman. So it was just kind of like, do you like this person? Put them in your movie or TV show. And that's kind of the way some people were trying to get famous.

1:22:52 Yeah.

1:22:53 Because nobody, because they hadn't figured out they can do stand-up comedy yet.

1:22:58 Uh, I'm going to see if I can find this for you. Okay. There it is. That was on sunset. Oh, wow. Yeah. It looks, it looks like a, um, a real estate photo. It's very reasonable. Yeah. And it is very, very beautiful. Yeah. Right.

1:23:14 And it's just kind of, she's just basically like, if you drive by this and you want to put me in your thing, totally feel free.

1:23:21 Okay. Plus I have home nudes. Yes. Cheekbones for days. You know, she looks like somewhere between Meryl Streep and Bonnie Raitt. Yeah. She has that look. Yeah. Like severe angles, but pretty. Yeah. Okay. And a nice tall forehead. Maybe a little Sigourney Weaver going on.

1:23:42 There's a little Weaver in there. She starts writing. So this was around the time where Christian Brando... Ended up going to jail for involuntary manslaughter.

1:23:53 Right. Marlon Brando's son.

1:23:56 Yeah.

1:23:56 Right.

1:23:57 Yeah.

1:23:57 He's going off the fucking rails. Yeah. That's a whole other. I didn't even want to get into it because I'm like, oh, we should save that one. Because that's a whole insane story. Totally. These Hollywood murders.

1:24:09 But.

1:24:10 Um, so he's in jail. So she's one of those people. She starts writing him letters in jail, sending him home, homespun nudes.

1:24:18 Absolutely.

1:24:19 He's like, this is great. Thank you so much. And when he gets out of jail, they started having a relationship.

1:24:25 Oh shit. Yeah.

1:24:27 Um, so that's basically kind of just this on and off thing. They, a lot of people in this special say like they're seeing each other or whatever.

1:24:34 Like, uh huh. We get it. We know what that means.

1:24:37 In a van in the alley behind the jazz club. Oh, Uh, but then when she's seeing Christian Brando in real life, that's when she meets Robert Blake.

1:24:47 That's where that story overlaps.

1:24:49 Okay.

1:24:49 So Bonnie kept flying back to Arkansas to pick up her mail because apparently when she lived in, uh, she was, she ended up getting arrested there. Because she had so many fake IDs and so many fake Social Security cards for all the different people that she pretended to be when she had that home nudes business. She never gave anybody her real name.

1:25:15 Yeah.

1:25:15 So she had a ton of fake ID, like fraudulent ID, basically.

1:25:20 Okay.

1:25:20 She had gone home to pick up her mail because she had been arrested for.

1:25:27 Basically, she got pulled over. A cop said, let me see your ID. She pulls out one. Fifteen other ones fall out. The cop's like, what the fuck? She gets arrested for fraud or whatever. So now she's on probation in Arkansas. So she has to have an address there. Yeah.

1:25:42 So she keeps, she like stays in LA for a little while, goes checks her billboard.

1:25:46 To see if there's any takers. And then she goes back. She has to go back to Arkansas. She's been doing that on and off.

1:25:52 Okay.

1:25:53 But once she hooks up with Robert Blake, so it's April of 1989. Now she finds out she's pregnant.

1:25:59 Yeah.

1:26:00 So she tells both Christian Brando and Robert Blake that they're the father.

1:26:05 Yeah.

1:26:06 And, uh, she's kind of doing this thing of like, I'm not sure which one I want to marry. And I'm still trying to pick because Robert Blake had a ton of money and he was really stable and he was actually interested in her and like into her Christian Brando was young and good looking. And, you know, kind of like the, you know, she was just trying to decide like who she was going to start a life with.

1:26:28 So she picks Robert Blake, but then when she tells him, so I'm pregnant and And blah, blah, blah.

1:26:33 He's just like, you lied to me. And he turns on her. Robert Blake does?

1:26:37 Yeah.

1:26:38 He's super mean. They have.

1:26:40 So, it also turns out, later on when this trial starts, she recorded almost.

1:26:46 Every single phone call she ever had. Shut up. So, they... Like, when this case started... I vaguely remember this. Yeah.

1:26:57 They had, they have phone calls of theirs. They have phone calls of other people. She had like, she just recorded all phone calls.

1:27:03 Weird.

1:27:04 So they could go through all of them. And that's when they start to find out her very checkered past.

1:27:09 Okay. Like the actual proof of it. Um, But basically she, she thinks she's going to do this kind of like, well, I'm pregnant. And so let's hook up.

1:27:19 And I finally made my decision of my two boyfriends in my Hollywood life. And Robert Blake is like, no fucking way. And is so mean and like demanding she get an abortion, telling her he's going to make her get an abortion, like all this stuff that she actually ends up writing a letter to her lawyer saying, If anything happens to me, Robert Blake is responsible for my death.

1:27:41 Oh, my God.

1:27:42 So she ends up going back to Arkansas or Memphis. I think it was Memphis. And she has the baby. It's this beautiful little girl. I mean, we've all seen when the case came up, you saw a million pictures of her.

1:27:56 Her name's Rose. And she is. So cute.

1:28:00 She looks like she's wearing like a little black hat of hair and she's got like bright red lips. And the second that Robert Blake saw the picture of her, he called Bonnie Blake Bakley and said, get a paternity test because that's my baby.

1:28:15 And they did. And it proved that it was his baby. So he knew. He knew. It looks exactly like him. Okay. And especially when you see those like our gang clips or whatever. It's she's.

1:28:26 Looks just like him and she's really cute.

1:28:28 Okay.

1:28:29 So he's basically says to Bonnie, move back to LA, make a life with me. Like I want to, I like, I love that baby. That's my baby. Let's make this work. And so. she gets on a plane, even though she knows she's breaking her parole or violating her parole. Uh, she gets back on a plane, uh, to LA to, to make this happen. Once she's in LA, Robert Blake is like, give the baby to the nanny for the day.

1:28:56 Let's go out to lunch. And when they're out to lunch, two cops walk up. And go, you're in violation of your parole in Arkansas. You're under arrest.

1:29:04 Stop it. And take her away. Robert Blake's like, don't worry about it. I'll take care of the baby.

1:29:09 We've got it covered. Those two cops bring her. They don't arrest her. They bring her to the airport and put her on a plane.

1:29:15 No. Back to Arkansas. They tricked her? Yeah, they tricked her. So it turned out those two guys weren't cops. No. They were two friends of Robert Blake's. No.

1:29:24 And the entire time it was his plan to get custody of that little girl.

1:29:30 Oh my God. So basically he's got the baby.

1:29:34 His grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house. And he just basically sent her back and was like trying to get rid of her. So she realizes the whole thing was a scam. She's furious. She threatens to file kidnapping charges against him. So they start to work on a deal because she's like, I will, I will like throw the.

1:29:57 Book at you. Yeah. And the deal is, She agrees to drop the charges if he'll marry her. Shut up. Uh-huh. So they... That's the most romantic thing I've ever heard in my life. This is.

1:30:10 Remember the story you told about the guy writing the girl's name on the thing?

1:30:14 This is better. Sending it to a planet.

1:30:15 This is better.

1:30:16 Can you imagine if a man....

1:30:19 So how'd you guys meet? So how'd you and Vince meet? Well, I tricked him. I threatened him with kidnapping charges.

1:30:26 He retaliated, of course. And then I made him sign a piece of paper that said.

1:30:31 But in the end, you were meant to be. He didn't love me. And I'm never alone with him because I'm scared of him. What the fuck? So crazy.

1:30:39 So in this prenup, basically it was like she was allowed to see the baby once a month and to see Robert Blake once a month.

1:30:47 That's the agreement. It was the exchange. He will marry you if you sign this.

1:30:51 But what does she get out of it then? If she doesn't even get to be with her baby, she didn't care about her baby.

1:30:55 Well, she does, but she, there's nothing she can do because she was in violation of parole and they've already kind of got that. So it's the kind of the only thing, only way she can see the baby still be in a life and still get the thing she ultimately has always wanted, which is To be married to a celebrity.

1:31:11 Oh, man. That feels... I'm going to move out of L.A. right now. It's... This town is bad feelings wall to wall. Delore. Good night. I mean, anyone who comes here has bad intentions. Or is going to have a bad time. Right. Or better get bad intentions or you're going to get screwed. Screw before you get screwed. That's for sure. Yeah.

1:31:34 Um, yeah, just real good feeling place. It's, it's the reason that people come here, try to do something and then they're like, Oh no, you know what? I'm now an evangelical Christian because I've, I've seen or a Scientologist or I'm going to be so vegan that I try to kill you. Like it's people just have to, they have to reassess their entire life.

1:31:56 They like need a thing to focus on.

1:31:58 Otherwise they'll focus on The horrible. How they're nothing or they'll buy themselves a billboard. Like it's the kind of town where you feel like you're so nothing for so long that you're like, I'm just going to buy a billboard.

1:32:11 It's the only way I can break through. It's just, it's a nightmare. So anyway, I like it here though. I mean, no, I love it. I'm pretty happy. Okay.

1:32:18 It's really gorgeous. We're having a great time. And guys, we get to do a show at the ORFM in two days.

1:32:22 Oh my God. That's amazing.

1:32:24 She signs this prenup that basically gives her almost nothing.

1:32:30 Um, they marry in November of 2000. I wish I could have been at that fucking ceremony. I bet there was rose petals and love galore. Everywhere. Just like scattered.

1:32:43 You just used the word galore. And I think I might never stop using the word galore. It's so fun to say.

1:32:50 It's of that time. It feels of this era. Yes. And I mean, like, you know, it's 2000, but like this fucking time.

1:32:57 Thing yeah six months later when her probation ends in arkansas she officially moves to la she moves into the guest house on his property not into his house her husband's house she moves into the guest house and they never share the same house they only ever set it up like that so it's not a real yeah i don't get it it's very strange so then this all leads up now we are up to may 4th Of 2001.

1:33:25 2001.

1:33:26 When Robert Blake asks Bonnie if she would like to go out to dinner.

1:33:30 Do they ever go like on dates or anything like that? Do we know? It doesn't sound like it. Yeah. No. It sounds like a real bummer, man.

1:33:38 It sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most codependent bad intentions from every direction.

1:33:46 Also, it's that thing of like, if you get together with a guy.

1:33:51 And then the only way you can see staying in his life is tricking him into thinking he's fathered your child. I'd go back to square one, go back to that jazz bar and pick somebody else.

1:34:02 Or start, you know, go back even further. Start it. Go to therapy. Yeah. Start there. Ask some questions.

1:34:09 So then when you get to the jazz bar, you pick a good, kind person.

1:34:13 Yeah.

1:34:14 Maybe drop some of that. whatever happened to you in junior high, um, drop, drop some of that. My first marriage was when I was 15. See, see if you can start a new, none of this is helping anybody, uh, or constructive in any way.

1:34:31 So they go to dinner. He says, I want to take you to Vitello's. She's like, hell yes. Yeah.

1:34:36 I love dusty grape, fake grapes. I love red sauce. I love melted mozzarella on, on, you know, pottery.

1:34:45 Box, Chianti favorite. Uh, what's that wine? The one that's so funny. Chablis. Oh, Vin Rose. That's my grandma used to order. Oh my God. I'll have a Vin Rose. Uh, she had a weird New York accent cause she was from San Francisco. Um, okay. So they go to dinner. Um, there, I just had a recurrent, uh, uh, recovered memory, there used to be a stand-up show at Vitello's upstairs. Yeah, this was like the late 90s.

1:35:17 Those are the kind of things I would be like, sure, I'll do that show, and I would show up and I'd be like, I'm not doing this.

1:35:22 I'm going to drink in the corner. You can have the opera guy take my sack.

1:35:28 Okay, so Robert Blake tells Bonnie that he's brought his 9mm pistol with him to dinner because of all the unscrupulous business that she's involved in and for her safety. And she's like, sounds great. I'll have the breadsticks.

1:35:44 Yeah. And... She ordered the breadsticks. Just breadsticks. Sounds fucking great. You know, when you're trying to be ladylike on a date. Yeah, you're on a diet. I'll just get seven breadsticks. Can I just have the breadsticks? And a pitcher of iced tea. God, I love Vitellos. So they leave the restaurant at 924. And.

1:36:08 Between 924 and 940, Bonnie Lee Bakley is shot in Robert Blake's car in the parking lot of Vitello's. So they get into the car, and then he goes, sorry, I left my gun in the restaurant. I'll be right back, and goes back into the restaurant.

1:36:30 Mm-hmm. Um, to get his gun that he says he left in the booth. Great.

1:36:34 There are no witnesses from the restaurant that say he went back into the restaurant. No one saw him go in and get his gun. But while he, he claims in his alibi is that when he, while she was getting shot outside, he was inside getting his gun.

1:36:47 But nobody saw him. No one saw him.

1:36:50 But it's the perfect alibi because it's like, well, I was inside with my gun.

1:36:53 Just say you went inside to pee. Like, why did he have to introduce the gun part?

1:36:57 I guess to cover the fact that that's where his gun was. Like, make it real clear that.

1:37:02 Oh, he didn't even have his gun on him.

1:37:04 Yeah, the gun wasn't anywhere but in the restaurant. But then why didn't he actually do that and wave at everyone with the gun? Hi, guys. So they all said they saw him waving with the gun. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Listen, I'm a master fucking criminal. Can I mute it? I mean, would that have helped? Be like, hey guys, you know, thanks again. Bye.

1:37:24 Oh shit, my wife just got shot. This one's for the opera singer. Chew into the ceiling. I'm sorry, I'm making light of this. No, no, no. I mean, what we're making light of is the plan. The whole... What we're making light of is life and how fucking stupid it is.

1:37:38 And also how Hollywood makes you think you can do things you shouldn't and can't do.

1:37:43 But it fucking.

1:37:45 money and acquittal, the TV show has shown us anything.

1:37:50 It's true. It is true. It's true. It's why people want it so badly is because it gets you to a place. I was right. Rich and acquitted.

1:37:58 It gets you to a place where you are untouchable and that's what everybody wants.

1:38:02 That's real power. So I want to be touchable. Oh, do you? I don't want to be untouchable. I think you're silky soft and totally touchable. Thank you. Baby soft. Thank you.

1:38:13 So At 940, Robert Blake rings the doorbell of a neighbor of Vitello's.

1:38:21 Why?

1:38:22 Because he went there to call 9-1-1 to the neighbors screaming going fucking berserk god um and the neighbor is it's a guy named sean stanek it's his house he goes there to his house to call 9-1-1 when he leaves and the cops go to like go to the crime scene he he He waits a little while.

1:38:43 Then he calls police again.

1:38:44 And he asks them to come and look through his house because he thinks Robert Blake might have hid something there while he was there. He says his behavior was so strange and over the top and bizarre. And he was screaming and being super crazy about my.

1:39:00 Wife, my wife, my whatever.

1:39:02 That he was like, I don't, I just want you guys to come and look. I feel like he did something and I didn't catch it, which I think is amazing. And such a cool move where it's like, could I just invite you guys.

1:39:12 Back real quick? He didn't even try to look for it himself. He was just like, something's fucking off and I am not putting my fingerprints on it.

1:39:18 No, get the authorities in here. Absolutely. ASAP. Well done, Sean Stanek.

1:39:23 So And other neighbors in the neighborhood were like, yeah, he was just running around screaming and, like, just so clearly presenting, like, I am freaking out. But a little vaudevillian and over the top.

1:39:35 Sure.

1:39:36 Play it to the back. What do you guys call it? Yeah, exactly. Play to the back row. Yeah.

1:39:42 So police are like, well, this is strange because, again, no witnesses actually saw him go into Vitello's the second time.

1:39:50 And he also... Bonnie... had a cell.

1:39:54 Phone and was always on her cell phone. She was like, as we know for her recorded messages obsession, she was a big phone person, always had her phone on her. He could have taken her phone and called 911.

1:40:06 Right there at the car and he didn't do it.

1:40:09 Okay.

1:40:10 He also, he was taken in for questioning.

1:40:14 After like they all left the scene. So Bonnie, uh, was shot twice.

1:40:19 In the car. She was in the car. She was sitting in the car in the passenger seat, shot through the window. blood all in the car.

1:40:26 She was taken, the ambulance came and she was taken to the hospital, but she died at the hospital. Robert Blake was taken in for questioning by the detectives, never asked how she was.

1:40:38 No.

1:40:40 So they were like, yeah, the couple of these things aren't adding up in a big way. They do the gun residue on his hands test inconclusive. They end up, which is a super brilliant idea, and like You know, for 2000s, pretty advanced. There's a dumpster that the car is parked right next to. And instead of going through the dumpster there, they just take the entire dumpster back to like the forensics lab or whatever and go through every piece of garbage piece by piece.

1:41:09 That's right. To find. Yeah. To find anything. And they end up finding this dumpster.

1:41:16 It's a 9mm, it's a very rare World War II German officer's gun that's a P38 9mm pistol.

1:41:25 No idea.

1:41:25 But when they find it, it's covered in motor oil. So they can't get any fingerprints off of it or even do any ballistics on it.

1:41:34 It's just completely ruined. Okay. they think intentionally. Yeah.

1:41:38 I wonder if that was a fucking plot line in an episode of Beretta. They should have fucking looked that up, man.

1:41:43 That's a fucking genius idea. Can you, can, is double jeopardy still a thing? Um, bring him back, bring him on back. That is such a good idea.

1:41:52 I wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of Beretta and just been like, this person did this, this person, this was the plan.

1:41:59 Sure.

1:42:00 Okay.

1:42:00 The next day, um, He lawyers up immediately, of course. And the next day is when the lawyer starts releasing the phone call tapes of Bonnie, starts trashing her. Like he had a whole... basically kind of like a media thing ready.

1:42:18 That has nothing to do with it.

1:42:21 Well, it's, it's what it is, is like they were trying to build the case that, that she had enemies all across the nation, that she had, she had conned men all over the place. And there were lots of people that, that were her enemy, not just Robert Blake. So as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and nightmarish as this marriage was that she had just entered into, she still, he wasn't, perhaps wasn't the only suspect that should have been looked at.

1:42:49 Right, right, right.

1:42:49 Okay.

1:42:50 Um, uh, she, and they find out that they start like when they start listening to these phone calls, they start finding these old men all around the country that they, they thought she was his, that they thought she was their wife.

1:43:06 No, they, um, they thought they were married. They, she was married to lots of people.

1:43:12 She got married a lot and she would, uh, take out life insurance policies on them.

1:43:18 And she also had them change their will to include her in. Stop it. Yeah, that happened. That was a couple of them.

1:43:23 Now this also, this was in rich and acquitted, but, uh, this also was all the information that the lawyer is just like anybody to listen to it.

1:43:33 They'll tell that story.

1:43:34 Um, one person theorized that she had been married over 25 times, but the provable amount, she.

1:43:41 Was married nine times for sure. Oh my God. Yeah. Um, okay. Okay.

1:43:46 So, uh, so at some point, like in the, in this process, Robert Blake fires that, uh, initial lawyer and he hires Thomas Mesereau. You've seen him on tons of true crime things. He has strange, like, uh, little Dutch boy hair, uh, but gray.

1:44:06 Okay.

1:44:07 It makes very little sense. And he's the guy that defended Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson. So you've seen him on the news.

1:44:13 Yeah. Yeah.

1:44:15 And and so he hires that guy. Then he hires media consultants to start the story spin and they get him on Barbara Walters. So from jail in his orange jumpsuit with his hair now turned white, he isn't dying his hair black anymore like he had up until that time.

1:44:33 That, that was like a big thing.

1:44:35 And they say he did it for sympathy or whatever, but from jail, she's like, did you kill your wife?

1:44:40 And he's like, no, of course I didn't. He's like, as if he's irritated with Barbara overdoing it a little for.

1:44:47 Even if there's a, yeah, he's, there's a touch of Lily gilding, but we can't tell if that's just how he is because he's a child actor. He's never had a normal life.

1:44:55 Yeah.

1:44:56 Like you just, you just don't know. Um, he ends up, Eventually, he ends up going free on a million dollars bail.

1:45:05 A million dollars bail? Rich. Rich. Acquitted.

1:45:09 Rich.

1:45:10 And bailed. Is that their theme song? Rich, rich, rich, and acquitted. Okay.

1:45:18 So then the trial starts on December 20th, 2004 at good old fucking Ventura Courthouse.

1:45:26 At our spot, Van Nuys. Van Nuys Courthouse. Fuck yeah. That's how it all ties back in. Love it.

1:45:33 Now, now that I'm thinking, I know the pretrial was at the Van Nuys courthouse. I don't know if the actual trial.

1:45:39 Let's go with it. So.

1:45:42 There's two different stuntmen who come testify that Robert Blake solicited them to kill his wife months before the actual murder. One of them they can prove he talked to on the phone the morning of the murder. But in cross-examination, he gets this. Mesereau ends up resigning from the case, whatever that's called, leaving it.

1:46:06 Quitting. Quitting, I guess. Quitting is the word I was looking for.

1:46:10 Yes.

1:46:11 You're welcome. He leaves. He gets a, Blake gets a third lawyer.

1:46:19 Always a bad sign when you have to keep fucking getting... Look at Ted Bundy, for example.

1:46:23 It's not good. No. You're not an agreeable individual. They hate you. Yeah, they hate your guts. They can't even... Like, they're lawyers and they can't even fucking deal with you. They can't deal.

1:46:31 They don't have to be around you that much. And they're just like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah, just do what I tell you and everything will be fine.

1:46:36 No, no, no, no. I'm a rock and roll actor. I'm smart, yeah. Okay, so the new.

1:46:43 A lawyer is basically just like, well, I'm just going to eviscerate any of these witnesses who even because there's so little evidence that they have to like. So the two stuntmen that come and.

1:46:53 Say, oh, yeah, he asked us to kill his wife.

1:46:57 One of them, they pull up a report that he had recently been hospitalized for cocaine psychosis.

1:47:03 Oh, no. What's that? It's just like you do so much cocaine, you fucking lose your mind. How much cocaine? I mean, I'd say a night's worth. Maybe two nights worth.

1:47:13 All right.

1:47:14 Interesting. It's like you just, you started and you don't stop. Oh my God. And then you just fucking go berserk. Okay. So that comes out on one guy.

1:47:21 So then he just like, cause all of his credibility is done and they basically do the same thing to the second guy. They're just like, oh, you're both, you're both these drug addicts. You're both these, you know, whoever you'd say anything for money, you'd say anything.

1:47:33 Sure.

1:47:34 Um, so yeah.

1:47:36 Basically, once they get rid of those two people, there's no real evidence that's usable in court. So the jury deliberates for 12 days on March 16th. 12 days?

1:47:48 2005.

1:47:50 Robert Blake was found not guilty of murder and not guilty of one of the two counts of solicitation of murder.

1:47:55 Straight up not guilty? Not even like?

1:47:58 Not guilty.

1:47:59 Yeah.

1:47:59 Sorry, go on.

1:48:00 Not guilty. No, that's fine.

1:48:02 Um, the, the other count of solicitation of the, of the guy, the cocaine psychosis guy, um, that was dropped when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked 11 to 1 in favor of acquittal. So they were going to go for it anyway. And they were just basically like, forget that one. And he's just going free.

1:48:21 Erase that one off the whiteboard. Yeah. They're just like, oh, you're rich. You're acquitted. The Los Angeles, this is from Wikipedia.

1:48:28 Los Angeles District Attorney Stephen Cooley called Blake, quote, a miserable human being.

1:48:34 And the jurors are, quote, incredibly stupid. Yeah. To fall for the defense's claims.

1:48:41 There's one woman in this special Rich and Acquitted where she goes, of course I believe that Mr. Blake would left his gun inside a restaurant. Haven't we all left things inside restaurants at one time or another?

1:48:53 Stop it.

1:48:54 It's just like, lady, it's a fucking gun. Oh my God. It's not your lipstick. It's not your fucking retainer that you put in the cloth napkin. Ugh. Cost your parents $ 300. They were so pissed. In Mimi's Cafe in Irvine. So basically, the public consensus was that he hired someone to kill his wife, and it's just unprovable. But there were lots of character witnesses that were like, no, he's the best, and he would never do that. And of course, there was no evidence. Okay, go on. On the night of his acquittal, several fans celebrated at Patello's. And Karen Kilgariff was one of them. And I was up there singing opera just like this. On November 18th, 2005. That's not opera.

1:49:45 It's not? What? Yes, it is. That was Verity.

1:49:48 I love opera. Everything's straight out your nose in opera. This is the Barber of Seville.

1:49:56 But if you're singing about opera, it's opera. Yes. You don't have to sing opera. That's right. This is a musical about singing opera. There's no actual opera in it. I'm out here and I'm wearing a Viking hat. More nasal. Nasal or your, please. A Viking hat.

1:50:12 Um, guys, on November 18th, 2005, Robert Blake was found liable in a California.

1:50:18 Civil court for her wrongful death. Civil court will always fucking come at you.

1:50:23 They'll come back and they'll be like, hey, we see things a little bit different.

1:50:26 We forgot to talk about the fucking OJ Simpson. No, we'll talk about it next time. Go on. Okay. Um, so... Sorry. No, no, that's fine.

1:50:35 So since that time he had to file for bankruptcy, he's in $ 3 million in debt, unpaid legal fees, as well as state and federal taxes. He said that he might return to acting because he has such financial problems now.

1:50:51 Acting's like, we're good, bro. Yeah, we're like, we got it covered, Beretta.

1:50:55 Yeah.

1:50:56 We're going to hire the parrot instead.

1:50:59 In 2010, the state of California filed a tax lien against Blake for.

1:51:03 $ 1, 100, 000.

1:51:04 $ 1, 110, 000 in unpaid back taxes.

1:51:05 Ouch.

1:51:05 It hurts.

1:51:05 Now, this is a very famous interview. He went on July 16, 2012. He went on Piers Morgan.

1:51:22 And he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a cow black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat.

1:51:28 No, no, don't do that.

1:51:29 And he is so crazy. You have to look it up on YouTube. It's an experience to have. And he just starts attacking Pierce Morgan for asking him any questions at all. And Pierce Morgan's like, yeah, but this is what we came here for is like the interview. And he snaps and is super fucking crazy.

1:51:47 I want to watch it.

1:51:49 You have to watch it. Uh, It's it's a it's pretty legendary. He told the people that were writing.

1:51:57 His autobiography that he hoped for one last great film role.

1:52:01 But the but he was in Lost Highway, the David Lynch movie in 1997 and that. To date is his.

1:52:10 Last acting role. Wow.

1:52:12 Um, in a March 2016, this is the, this is one of the saddest endings, not saddest, but like one of the most like, Oh, endings of any of the murders that I've done in 2016, March, 2016, he told a reporter that he had a private nurse and that he was suffering, suffering from incontinence. And that my friend is the, is this sad ending. Um, of the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley.

1:52:41 Oh my God.

1:52:42 And the rich acquitted experience of actor Robert Blake.

1:52:48 That's right. Now he's 85. He's still alive. He's still alive. I think he remarried for a third time. Someone married him again? Of course. It's the fucking, this is a town full of people who want their own billboard.

1:53:02 Jesus.

1:53:03 They'll do anything. Also, how can he get to be 85?

1:53:06 But fucking Stephen Hawking is what? Was he like 73?

1:53:11 Look. Such bullshit. I wish I could explain God's work. I wish you could too. But it's a mystery. Yeah. This is just how he does it.

1:53:20 Next time we have to talk about the OJ, if I did it, that they finally.

1:53:25 Oh, thank you. That was amazing. That was... Oh, no, no. You're welcome. Thank you. That was so.

1:53:31 I don't want to call it fun, but it was a wild ride. You know who he's always reminded me of is the dude, the dad from The Staircase. Like.

1:53:41 Just creepy in that way. Yes. Whatever.

1:53:44 There's definitely an energy about him that you're, but, but you can't tell.

1:53:48 Actors are so creepy. They're so creepy. That it's like, it's the, yeah. It's like, who are, is this the real you or is there another real you? Are you acting? Yeah. Do you ever know how to not be acting?

1:53:59 Right.

1:54:00 And you just think feelings are weird masks to put on so you can manipulate people.

1:54:05 Right. Like instead of actually having a real time experience. It's like, here's how feelings look like and sound like. Oh, Italy. I love this place. My gun. Abundanza, everybody. Pizza for one. Type of shit.

1:54:22 Nick got a ringtone immediately. Steven, turn that into a fucking ringtone. Um.

1:54:27 But you're talking about, so there was the OJ Simpson, like an If I Did It special? Right. It got filmed in like 2006.

1:54:35 And there was like a fucking public outcry. And everyone was like, don't put it out. But so they finally did. You'll have to watch it and we'll talk about it next week.

1:54:44 Okay, great. It's fucked up. He did it. Yeah. And he admits to it in this fucking show. Whoa. It's fucked up.

1:54:51 Okay.

1:54:52 So... two women who were one of us.

1:54:57 They were murderinos. They were lovely women. And they were murdered this week.

1:55:05 Yeah, this is one of the most awful things. We've been contacted and had a bunch of people tell us about this. But Steven, just so you guys know, and I think sometimes people aren't aware of this, like, Steven is so good about he's on those message boards with you guys. And he knows what everyone's doing. He reads all those emails. So like he lets us know especially when something this horrible happens.

1:55:27 And so we found out that it was on Tuesday. When was Monday? When was Tuesday? We found out this morning. Yeah.

1:55:38 That two different murderinos in Seattle were murdered.

1:55:42 Separately. So Lita Burns and Samantha Field were. We're both murdered.

1:55:48 If you go to the My Favorite Murder Facebook page, there's more information. We actually don't know a lot of information ourselves, but we just wanted to acknowledge them. And we're so heartbroken over it. And not just because, you know, they're listening to the podcast, obviously, but because it's just really heartbreaking. And we feel like they're friends of ours.

1:56:09 And it just feels really, it feels like we're this club and we've lost everything. two members and it feels horrible and in.

1:56:16 Such a and such a terrible way like just we're thinking about you guys because they were your friends and you know this is this is your guys community that you're building and so you're all connected and the idea that something like that would happen to you in your community is just heartbreaking so we're thinking about you and and we're so sorry and we're so sorry to the families and you know hopefully there'll be quick uh Like for the one that is right now, they don't know as much information. Hopefully that case will be solved quickly.

1:56:50 The other one is just an incredible tragedy. I mean, they both are, but yeah, there's just so much loss and we're so sorry.

1:57:01 Okay, we're back here. And any updates? Just a couple.

1:57:04 Of course, Quentin Tarantino's novelization of the film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is That movie was dedicated to Robert Blake.

1:57:11 And in the.

1:57:13 Movie, Brad Pitt's character is accused of murdering his wife, which is kind of interesting. Robert Blake did die of heart disease on March 9th, 2023. He was 89 years old. And Rose Lenore Blake is in her late 20s and lives a quiet life now.

1:57:31 All right, let's head back in for Good Things of the Week. Uh, okay.

1:57:42 So my positive thing this week, and I just want to give this shout out to this, this movie that I can put on in the background and Vince and I put it on at night when we get home from going out and we just want to watch something and it's just, you could start it at any point and it just makes me so happy. It's called Los Angeles Plays Itself.

1:58:01 Oh. Have you seen it? No. It's so good.

1:58:03 It's a documentary about Los Angeles in the movies.

1:58:07 Oh.

1:58:08 And it shows all the overtones. old school movies and all the places and things in Los Angeles in the background, like Rebel Without a Cause, all these places. And it's just this really lovely, lovely thing to put on as a nice distraction.

1:58:22 And you can Just watch it and enjoy yourself. I would love to see that. It's so good. It's really funny.

1:58:28 After all the shit we've been saying, that's like the perfect thing to say.

1:58:32 It's like, you know what? But it actually is really pretty. The Los Angeles thing itself. Yeah. I thought Beretta's on there. I mean, there's, I think he was in New York. Well, never mind. Well, that's what they show that too.

1:58:43 It's like they say this is New York, but here's Los Angeles downtown. I think the Orpheum's in there as well.

1:58:48 Oh, that's right.

1:58:49 They show downtown LA and what it's pretending to be or when they're, you know, to live and die in LA and.

1:58:54 What parts of LA it is. And it's narrated by this guy who's got like the most soothing, lovely, monotone voice. Oh. It's such a good fucking, it's such a good... It's just like a good living creature that I really like. Amazing.

1:59:06 Yeah.

1:59:06 I love it.

1:59:07 I love to live and die in LA is a good movie. Well, mine's also kind of on the same. It was making me laugh. There were people that were giving us suggestions for what this segment should be called. And it was making me laugh. People had some hilarious suggestions. But we should think of an actual.

1:59:22 Name for it. Yeah.

1:59:25 Because people were trying to do puns, of course, which, God. God, people love puns. But I don't think we have it yet. Unless you can think of one while I say this one.

1:59:35 Okay.

1:59:35 I just, last night I watched my, we all got to write two episodes on baskets this season.

1:59:42 And my second one was on last night. Oh my God.

1:59:45 And it made me laugh. Now, look, I mean, part of the reason it makes me laugh is because Zach and Martha and Louie They riff so much.

1:59:57 So we get credit for stuff that we did not write. And it's awesome.

2:00:01 I mean, like watching Zach riff and knowing that the things like he just he just writes the best joke.

2:00:07 So I remember when I can't remember what the actual joke is supposed to be, but. Christine Baskets says to Chip, she's.

2:00:14 Like, Chip, it's not a competition. And he goes, yes, it is, mother. Everything is. And it made me laugh so hard. And that was totally Zach's joke. But there were things in it that were.

2:00:27 Um, so fun to, to make up.

2:00:30 And I remember when I was making them up thinking, I think this is going to work like having that feeling and it, but it's so hard to believe in that when you're just making something up and writing it on a page. And, you know, of course I always talk about how much I love Jonathan Kreisel is my boss on that show and the director and the visionary of that show and the one that makes it work.

2:00:52 It's his doing, but he was like, no, no, no, this is exactly how it should be. And this ending scene where they're all in this Halloween store, having a fight as a family is just like, I was laughing at my own writing, which usually anything I watch of my own gives me great pain. It gives me lots of like retroactive shame and regret. And I should have done this better. And I should have done this. And I just purely enjoyed myself.

2:01:15 I love that. It was really fun.

2:01:17 And I don't know, those guys are just, we get, it's just the coolest thing to be a part of.

2:01:23 So that was exciting. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. Wait, I know what we'll call it. Bragging corner. How's that? How about the positive place? Positive vibes. Positive vibes. Something about party vibes. Party vibes. Yep. My favorite party vibes. Yeah. Hashtag. I think party vibes. What do you think? This gives me party vibes? Yeah.

2:01:52 I mean.

2:01:53 I'm going to be sarcastic every time I say it if it's party vibes.

2:01:56 Well, because it's stupid.

2:01:57 Right.

2:01:58 Like, I mean it as a joke. No, no, I know. No. I mean, I like party vibes. No, we'll keep, let's keep workshopping that. You know what? Let's put a pin in it and let's fucking workshop it. Let's do party vibes is best of right now. There's all these people that are like, I tweeted something better on Twitter. Yeah, you did. You're right. No, you're absolutely right about your own ideas. Yeah. Don't ever listen to anybody else's outside influence.

2:02:23 Don't bother. Party Vibes is what it is until we think of a better idea. Okay, and we'll get there. That's the one to beat. Yeah. Okay, we're back.

2:02:34 So this episode was originally entitled... I love it.

2:02:39 Galore, galore.

2:02:40 What I love is that it's such a weird word and I used it twice.

2:02:44 And then you're just like, why are you using it?

2:02:47 Galore all the time but i like that it's the word galore galore like.

2:02:51 It's galore galore it's so good.

2:02:54 So bad but if we were naming it today maybe naming it something else maybe we would call it the furthest darkest space of course.

2:03:04 That's good don't embarrass me oh.

2:03:07 The altar of doubt i mean i still think about that all the time.

2:03:10 Altar of doubt that's right also the british toby Because Toby Jones is always relevant on this show and in our lives.

2:03:18 And then, of course, hire the parrot instead. Just wisdom from this show. Truly.

2:03:25 Look, the benefit of us just talking without thinking is that, you know, that's how a lot of good podcasting is made.

2:03:32 Right.

2:03:34 You don't realize the shit you say until you get the titles read back to you at the end of the episode.

2:03:38 And you're like, I said that? What? How are we?

2:03:41 Doing this for this long it makes no sense but it's very fun.

2:03:46 Right and in the meantime let's go back to 2018 to say goodbye from there.

2:03:54 Gosh thanks for listening we we love this community And we love being part of it. And we're so fucking grateful.

2:04:02 Yeah, we really are. For you guys listening and for what's happened to our life.

2:04:07 We don't talk about it because, like we said, we're fucking terrified that it's going to all fall apart the minute we acknowledge it.

2:04:15 And we say it at live shows. We don't really say it on recorded episodes. That's true. How insanely incredible.

2:04:22 I don't I want to say my life has become because of this podcast.

2:04:26 It's true.

2:04:26 In a way that I think I fell through a wormhole when I was a kid and ended up here because there's just no way that this is real.

2:04:35 It's so true. It's so funny to say that because I was today was my therapy today. Therapy day.

2:04:41 Uh, so where, which is when I get especially.

2:04:43 Like raw and kind of like, what am I saying?

2:04:46 Uh, but I did have a moment where I told my therapist, it really does feel like everything has come together. It's like, it's that feeling like at the end of a prayer for Owen Meany, where all of a sudden he understands why he was doing that trick shot with his friend the whole time. Cause then they're in the war together or whatever. It had that feeling of like, the stuff that we, you and I have been doing lately where I'm like, Oh, I got it. I've been trained for this. I kind of know what I'm doing here.

2:05:11 And it finally makes sense.

2:05:13 Like, I don't know.

2:05:14 It's thank, what we're saying is thank you. Thank you guys for listening. Thanks for being a part of it. It's, we're having the best time. We're glad you guys are having the best time. Fucking hooray. We're so grateful.

2:05:27 And, and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Elvis, want a cookie? Oh, yeah. You want a cookie? Good boy. You want a cookie? You got it. I know, but I think there's more. There's a better one. I'm sorry. Just keep saying it. I'm such a stage mom.