Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 114: Civic Order

0:16 Hello!

0:18 And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:21 This is the show where we look back on our old episodes with all new insights, case updates, and pop culture buzzwords.

0:27 Today we're rewinding to episode 114, which we named Civic Order.

0:32 This episode originally came out on March 29th, 2018.

0:36 Let's get into it. The intro of episode 114.

0:43 Welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Karen Kilgara. That's Georgia Hardstart. And this is the podcast that tells you what it tells you. It tells you what? Kind of the worst things you could possibly hear. Yeah.

1:01 It really does just tell it right into your ear hole. It just says it right into your eardrum. Yeah.

1:07 So if you're laying in bed at night trying to get something to fall asleep to, this is it.

1:12 I had a dream that Tenacious D broke up. Am I wrong? That was out of the blue. Literally, a picture just passed through behind my eyes in my brain. A picture. I must have fallen asleep in front of something that informed my dream. Yeah. I hope they didn't. I mean, they've written nine songs about breaking up. Yeah, that's probably what it is. I watched a weird rerun or something. Oh, you know what I was going to do? Um, this is a new corner. Okay.

1:46 Cause it's not a correction, but I did. I, I listened to the minute last week's mini sewed and in thinking about the story of the man that was laying under the movie theater seats, because of course we much like the women had happened to were shocked and surprised that there was a man laying under their movie theater seats for an entire movie.

2:06 Yeah.

2:08 But so we were laughing and stuff. But I did want to underline, if that ever happens, call the police immediately. Don't wait for movie theater employees to call the police. Don't wait for permission to call the police. You call the police immediately because the person that lays under movie theater seats.

2:27 Is only going to do weirder and more fucked up stuff afterwards. Totally.

2:31 So I felt bad after I heard that because we were laughing so hard.

2:36 Well, they did say in it that they talked to the manager and ultimately we called the police.

2:40 Yes. But I think they were just so shocked by it. Exactly. Yeah. As were we. Yeah. And we didn't call the police either.

2:48 We didn't. No, I actually, on the re-listen, I called the police. I called Burbank police. I just wanted to say that, like, Sometimes weird thing is not, you don't have to be touched or assaulted in any way that, that deserved a police call for sure.

3:03 They should have felt a hundred percent great doing that. Definitely.

3:06 Yeah. I just, I guess, I don't know. Maybe that's too random, but I wanted to underline it.

3:11 You've been thinking about it, holding it in. Now there it is.

3:15 If you don't know what like civic order behavior violates.

3:21 You can still call the police. They'll figure it out. Yes. They'll get the book out from the shelf, the civic order book. They'll pull it all down and then get into their police cruiser. Sure. Come help you.

3:33 Okay.

3:33 Now we have to have a different corner. Okay. That it's been asked of us.

3:38 They're getting back together.

3:42 They're getting back together. Oh, is that Tenacious T? Oh, I love Tenacious T.

3:56 Okay.

3:57 We have to talk about this wild, wild country corner. Oh, fuck. Can people?

4:01 Yes.

4:02 Watch it. Everyone. Guys, let's update a couple things.

4:06 We heard about the lady's body that was found in the wall years later.

4:10 Yeah. Thank you.

4:11 Amazing story. Combined everything. We got a lot of tweets about it. Yep.

4:16 All the way up to and including....

4:20 This documentary that is incredibly done. Beautifully done. Brilliantly done. Did you watch the whole thing? No.

4:30 No. Me neither. Can I tell you something? You don't like it. I find it kind of boring. Why do I hate everything? You always say that when it's the thing I love. I know. Do you think it's because you think you need to do point counterpoint? No. If I love it, you have to find something wrong with it. When did I know your opinion of it? Well, because I already did it as a story. Yeah, but I thought your story was interesting. Listen, I do think Sheila, though...

5:01 I could just listen to her talk for hours. She did say one thing. That was a joke. That one?

5:06 No, she said to someone.

5:08 I was watching it last night, trying so hard. I watched episode one, and Vince and I were both like, wow, this is so boring. And then someone else was like, it gets better. So I was like, okay, I'll jump to episode three. So I go to episode three, and it's still boring. But she does say to someone in a news report that, well, what do you say to.

5:24 The people who blah, blah, blah? And she goes, tough titties. I was just like, wow, that's who I want to be.

5:31 I mean, she really is kind of a great villain. I don't know. I like, I like a lady that's just like bound and determined.

5:40 Yeah.

5:41 I just want it to be about like, I guess I don't totally understand what the cult is about. Like all they're doing is fighting people, but without any, like not fighting for.

5:50 They were, you know, they were fighting for, um, he was really into like sex. There was a bunch of sex stuff. And then there was, you know, there were kind of like. Buddhist concepts basically where it's like, love yourself and love your fellow man.

6:06 Carry an AK-47 around with you everywhere you go.

6:09 I mean, cause they started getting, I think, I mean, I, I, you know, it's, it was just a, it was a cult. Why, why would any spiritual leader have, was it 37 Rolls Royces? I think 37 is the right number. But like that that was his goal and dream. And then they made that happen for him.

6:28 Like all those things. There's no logic isn't a big.

6:31 No, it's not like Heaven's Gate where they're like, here's the thing we believe in. There's this and there's this. And we're going to get on fucking the Haley pop and get the fuck out of town. And are you know, like they had like rules and things.

6:43 But it was it, you know, is that. it was out of that tradition that that would happen all the time. Gurus would pop up. Gurus.

6:50 This was the person to listen to. This guy was smarter than regular people. Right.

6:54 Everybody.

6:55 That's a human trait. We love to think there's one smarter person that should tell us everything.

7:00 And we'll just do that. And then that'll be fine. Yeah. Because whatever we're doing isn't working. Yeah.

7:06 And that's a great concept. That's completely fucking full of shit. Because no one knows anything. Also, some people don't look good in maroon. Fucking take that shirt off, dude. Although there were some insanely hot 70s guys in that documentary.

7:22 Yeah, there were some very good looking 70s people who had left their families. Like the chick, the Australian chick who was just like, I was bored and I did this and that. And I'm like, I bet her kid has so many fucking issues now.

7:38 Yes.

7:38 Your mom just got bored of you in her life in the later days to fucking.

7:44 It was so. Yes, exactly. They were like, you know what? I need to do this for me. Yeah.

7:49 It's that super selfish, like late 70s me generation.

7:54 Yeah. Yeah. Where everyone is like, I have to prioritize myself.

7:58 Right.

7:58 So I'm going to get divorced and leave all my children behind. It's like, okay. That's why helicopter parenting is what it is today.

8:06 Oh, because all of us kids who were left for maroon. For maroon fields of southeastern Oregon.

8:14 Now we're like. my mom did it wrong so now i'm gonna do.

8:17 It this way i'm gonna do it so right yeah i am your shadow caleb and guess what you're gonna hate your parents anyways fucking that's right if they're not there you hate them if they're always there you hate them it's real hard to get that english just right on parenting no yeah it doesn't work take it from us we don't have kids.

8:38 We did the smart thing and did neither. We parented neither way.

8:42 I was always like, how could I have kids when I am merely a child?

8:46 Yeah.

8:47 Oh, what was the other thing? Oh, well, this is just incidental. Okay. But I feel like people like a nice dentist update.

8:54 Right.

8:55 Always.

8:55 It's because it's really the rags to riches story of me being so afraid to go to the dentist.

9:01 And now I can't stop going to the dentist. Every time we talk to each other, I'm on my way to the dentist.

9:05 Right.

9:06 I love to be like, sorry, I'm stepping into the dentist's office. Um, So it's like your agent, like, I have to go to my dentist's office today.

9:13 My highfalutin dentist's office. So again, I went to visit my dentist. But I wanted to tell people this because the reason I didn't go for so long was because I thought that I was phobic of the dentist. I would have panic attacks in the dentist's chair. And recently, and before I started going again, my friend Paige Hurwitz, whose parents were doctors, told me, That lidocaine, which is the novocaine that they shoot into your mouth.

9:43 Like the numbing shit? The numbing shit that gets shot into your mouth.

9:48 If you are allergic to it or have a sensitivity to it, your blood pressure drops. And the blood pressure dropping is, in me, the same feeling of starting a seizure or starting a panic.

10:00 Panic attack where, and I had.

10:02 It in the chair and went, Oh my God, this is what she was talking about. Where I felt like I was falling backwards, even though I was already laying down and I was like, Whoa, Whoa.

10:12 And I like my hand went up really weird, but he didn't notice. Thank God.

10:16 Um, But I was still wearing fucking Oakley blades. So it's not like I looked great or anything. But basically, if you're afraid to go to the dentist or you have panic attack type feelings, it could be because you're allergic to lidocaine and you can ask them to give you something different.

10:33 Well, shit. Like heroin?

10:35 You can get a heroin shot into your eye and then you don't feel anything.

10:40 Shots in your eye. For like eight hours.

10:43 No, it's worth it.

10:45 But I just like, once I learned that, I was like, oh, this could have saved me like six years worth of like stress about the dentist.

10:52 Not going to the dentist. Avoiding it.

10:54 Or when I used to go, I would be so freaked out. I was like, couldn't stop. I would hold my breath the whole time.

11:00 Yeah. It was really weird. Freaked me out. Fuck that. That's my, you know what that is? That's like a PSA. Yeah.

11:07 Yeah.

11:07 The more you know about your teeth. Gling, gling, gling, gling. Gling, gling, gling. The more you know.

11:13 Oh, well, should we talk real quick about. our, our announcement, our big surprise, our big surprise. We've been sitting on this one guys.

11:21 We have lots of surprises. Lots of them that we just can't talk about yet.

11:24 Yes. But we have like four that are going to blow doors once we can talk about them.

11:29 Really exciting stuff coming up in the future. Uh, But in the meantime, the one we can tell you is that we finally have put together a fan club of sorts that we're calling the Fan Cult Club. Because fan clubs... It's a fan club. Yeah.

11:50 So that's going to happen soon. And we'll tell you more about it in the next couple weeks. But it's going to have like.

11:55 It's actually happening in like 10 days. Yeah.

11:57 It's happening very soon. It's going to be very exciting. We'll tell you more next episode.

12:01 But it's going to be like exclusive merch that you can't get.

12:05 And access.

12:06 First access to buy tickets to the live shows. And then like a message board and cool shit like that.

12:12 Pictures. Yeah. You know, video type stuff. We're just like... Exclusive shit. We're actually getting our act together. Uh-huh.

12:18 And putting a thing together for you so that if you care to have some next-level interaction with this podcast, we're going to give you some stuff.

12:26 Yeah, there's going to be a live video feed at Karen's dentist appointments. We're going to get her hot dentist to put a camera, or maybe you should have the camera on your head, and it's just filming the hot dentist.

12:38 So you can see when he goes, can you turn your head more to the right? I'm constantly trying to turn away and close my mouth. So he's constantly trying to tell me... To open my mouth more and turn my head so that I'm not basically turning.

12:51 My back on the appointment. Well, they'll know that soon. I mean, it's exciting stuff. And then I'll have a live feed. I'll have a forehead camera on my forehead for when I take naps. Perfect. So you can just see Mimi sitting next to me sleeping. It'll be great. This is show business, people. This is what you look for in entertainment. There's going to be a Stephen cam, a mustache cam on Stephen.

13:14 It's a tiny camera like in Honey, I Shrunk the Kids that travels through Stephen's mustache.

13:20 It has adventures. That's right. It takes weeks and weeks. There's a creek. It meets new people. That's right. There's goblins. Yep. There's cats. Teeny, tiny, miniature cats.

13:32 Oh, we have to talk about the person that drew the cartoon when we said that Stephen's inception was he.

13:37 Just grew out of the carpet. Oh, my God. You don't have that person's name nearby, do you? I think I might. I think it's on our MFM Instagram. You sent it to us. A very talented person whose name we're about to say. Hold on to your butts, everyone. It's a race. Stephen and George are both looking at their phones. Dylan the girl. Dylan the girl. Fuck you, Steven.

13:58 Dylan the girl.

13:59 Dylan the girl made an Inception cartoon of us freaking the fuck out while Steven grows out from the carpet.

14:08 It's pretty hilarious. It was real good. Thank you. Thanks, Dylan the girl.

14:13 Also, someone, and I'm sorry because I'm looking at my phone and I won't race. I won't race the way these two do. Someone made, did you see the Photoshop where they put the... kate and kate and leo from titanic into a single.

14:31 It's real good.

14:32 That's recent everybody's been there's been lots of fun interaction um on twitter lately yeah well instagram too yes yes instagram's also a great social media.

14:43 Don't forget mine what's going on over on instagram verified Which means just as that little blue check.

14:50 Oh, that's good. And that means that you can get cash anywhere in the city?

14:54 No, it just means that you're better than your kids you went to high school with.

14:59 Oh, good. And do you email them and let them know that? Oh, Instagram lets them know on their own. It sends everyone you went to high school with a notification.

15:07 Great.

15:08 And then it also sends everybody your social security number. Right. Because that's the new thing.

15:12 Right.

15:12 Well, you don't need your social security number.

15:13 You're a higher being who doesn't require government stuff.

15:17 You're no longer defined by that number. So it's like here you can have it if you want it now. Like it's up for grabs.

15:24 I just in my mind had to tell myself three times not to say my own social security number.

15:29 I'm not kidding. Isn't it like standing at the edge of a cliff and being like, don't, you're not, don't fall forward. Don't fall forward. Do not do it. Don't blurt out your social security number right now. Like we're going live. I know, right? The live show. That would be actually, do you think we could do that one day, Steve? What?

15:46 Go live. You're crazy. No, I'm not.

15:50 I mean, we could do like a Facebook live or even through the new.

15:54 Fan page probably.

15:55 Oh. that wasn't fake i swear to god i think that would be hilarious and really fun.

16:01 Then also on the fan cult there's gonna be a facebook live we're gonna do um once a week shut the fuck up no we're not we're gonna come to you every morning well i.

16:11 Went 5 a.m steven can you edit this part just so we have it so we can play it to karen every time she's like who the fuck made this decision to do.

16:18 This when I'm laying on my couch like I'm not coming to that.

16:21 George is like no no no.

16:22 This was all your idea yours you did this you you did this you took the camera out of Stephen's mustache and put it directly on us live that's what she wanted.

16:32 Come on everybody um I do think it would be cool if we could have a hotline.

16:42 A hotline? Jesus, you're just adding so much.

16:44 Just pick up a phone every once in a while and maybe there's somebody there.

16:47 I feel like we could do a live hometown read episode to put up on the fan page.

16:57 You mean like I grab this microphone and run downstairs to find somebody on the street?

17:00 No. I man on the street it? No, we just read from a page live.

17:05 Where?

17:05 On the camera. On the camera.

17:10 Listen, I'm going to get this together and I'm going to make it make sense. Bring it to me and make me see it with you.

17:16 I see it here.

17:17 I just don't have the hair. Someone said they wanted to play Words With Friends with me. And I said that I think that they were being mean.

17:26 Because you just want to win. Did you feel that was an attack?

17:29 A little bit.

17:30 That was an attack on you. Because you know you're going to win. You took them asking to play a game with you as an insult?

17:36 Yes. Yes. How dare you? I can't... Even when I... I used to play Yahtzee with friends or with buddies. Sure. But I hated the idea. Every once in a while, I'd play with a person I didn't know, just whoever was on there.

17:55 Yeah. And it creeped me out so much.

17:57 Stranger.

17:58 I don't like that idea. It's creepy.

18:00 You're not supposed to talk to strangers, especially with Yahtzee words.

18:02 No. Spelling your words with Yahtzee.

18:05 No.

18:06 Don't Yahtzee with strangers. Don't Yahtzee with strangers.

18:09 No. No.

18:11 What was that supposed to be? Don't talk to strangers. Don't yacht to strangers.

18:14 Yeah.

18:15 You know what I mean?

18:15 No.

18:15 Take it out. Do not. This is why we don't go live. Guys, this is. Steven, this is going to be the one you don't have to edit.

18:24 Yeah.

18:25 Watch this. Watch this. Here we go. We start practicing now.

18:29 Yeah.

18:29 No more edits. Yeah. Can't even imagine.

18:33 Shit.

18:33 Well, we do it live on live shows all the time. That is true.

18:37 And we just knock those out of the park every single time when there's a baby in the audience.

18:42 Oh my God. You guys, there was a baby in the audience at the LA show. It was a noise that we heard. We stopped and we looked around.

18:50 It was like me i think that was like i think we both at the same time kind of went.

18:55 Is that is that a baby and then just someone raised a baby up over their.

19:00 Head lion king style totally lion king style and it was just this cute little oops i just hit mimi in the face oh i'm sorry uh lion king style and this baby was just staring at us and you and i then just both lost our minds trying to get the baby to smile at us in the most obnoxious way in front of 2,700 people.

19:20 You'll hear it. And then the baby was quiet the rest of the time. Chilled out. Chilled out.

19:25 Cool. That was a chill baby. But it was weird and crazy and creepy to say the F word in front of that. Probably, I would guess, eight-month-old baby. Yeah. Oh, guys, this is stuff that's happened to us that you weren't there for. That's a new corner called You Weren't There.

19:40 Yeah. And we're back. If we were marking time by documentaries.

19:49 Yeah.

19:50 Is the wild, wild country era of your life. What was that like? Do you remember?

19:54 Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed it was that far back, but... Yes. Right?

19:59 Eight years ago.

20:00 Yeah.

20:01 Those Duplass brothers, they love doing just like random things all over the place.

20:06 They'll do it all and they'll do it all over Silver Lake.

20:10 That's right.

20:11 That's how they do it.

20:12 This is when the fan cult was born.

20:14 Oh, that's right.

20:15 Oh, my God.

20:16 That's right.

20:17 I forgot that it had a birthday. It just seems like it was always there with us.

20:22 I know.

20:23 That's so funny. It's like, well, there's enough people where we should start a little club that people would actually pay to be in a little club with us.

20:31 Yeah.

20:32 Thanks, guys.

20:33 Thanks for everyone who's ever joined the fan cult.

20:35 We started a fan cult. So no one can ever take that away from us.

20:39 Come at me.

20:39 We have a Discord.

20:41 Sorry.

20:42 We're grownups. That's one step too far, Karen.

20:46 Oh, this was the show where I shared the information that I was having panic attacks in the dentist chair. And then it was actually that I was being given Novocaine and I should be given Lidocaine.

20:56 Is that like, I don't know why, like finding stuff like that out when you're an adult seems so... either rare or just weird that no one ever figured it out before.

21:06 Yes, kind of infuriating.

21:07 Like, why couldn't we get this onto YouTube in the first iteration of when the orchestra collapses? Right after that, you could have just come out with a little piece of information.

21:17 Did it change anything for you?

21:19 Oh, yeah.

21:20 I mean, everyone's seen my gigantic veneers that I've had and love. It's one of my favorite purchases. But I mean, I started going to the dentist all the time because I was in that chair.

21:30 It just solved it. It just solved it.

21:32 Well, I had so much work to do.

21:34 My old teeth, anytime anyone wants to talk about veneers looking fake, I'm like, great.

21:40 I love how fake they look.

21:41 Because my teeth before looked like I was a character in Les Miserables. It was fucking insane. Yeah.

21:48 One was chipped in half. They were yellow. They were short Irish teeth. Come on.

21:52 No, I don't think your veneers look fake at all.

21:55 There's times when we're podcasting and I feel like I can't get my lips around my veneers.

21:59 Well, me too, and they're real, but that's because they're so big. Mine are just big, you know?

22:04 I mean, the challenges.

22:06 Truly. It's so hard for us.

22:08 And still, we started a fan cult.

22:10 And still, we persevere with the fan cults. You're welcome.

22:14 That's right.

22:16 There are good videos there now too, by the way. I think everyone should know that we're like not half-assing the videos we put up weekly.

22:22 No, remember those unboxings? Yeah, I love.

22:26 Unboxing, but it got a little unpredictable.

22:29 It wasn't very inspired. We have to have like a little game. That's the fun of it. What are we doing?

22:35 Totally. There's fun games now there. There's like fucking years, eight years of videos and All kinds of things there now. All kinds of things. That's fancult.supercast.com if you want to check it out.

22:48 If you want to hear the secrets.

22:49 If you're in that season of your life where you're ready to handle a fan cult, then check it out. Okay, let's get into your story because it's a fucking banger. It's one of the big ones. So let's get into Karen's story about the Hillside Stranglers.

23:06 Hello. Who goes first this week? Karen. Karen Kilgariff.

23:15 Also, The Alienist is now over, and I would just like to say to everybody involved, great fucking job.

23:23 I watched every episode twice. Nice. That means, George, I thought it was boring. No.

23:28 I can't.

23:29 I'm going to binge watch it. I'm going to make myself sick, and I'm going to binge watch it. Do it.

23:34 A hundred percent, because outfits are amazing. I want to be able to talk to you about it.

23:38 God damn it. I'll talk to you.

23:40 Okay.

23:40 I won't stop talking to you because of this. Dakota Fanning rules it. The whole idea of it.

23:47 At one point in the last episode, she walked up to tell the police chief something. She's like the first person, the first woman to work in the New York police department. I don't think it's based on a true real person, although I could be wrong, but she walks up and she is wearing like culottes.

24:04 She's, it looks like it's supposed to be like a long dress. But then you see that it's actually pants. It's the coolest thing that's very subtle.

24:14 Yeah. And I was like, that fucking costume department nailed it hard.

24:18 That'd be a fun costume department to work in probably, huh? So many vests. So many vests. Highest shoulders you've ever seen. Insane shoulders. So much crazy. Like, it was a fascinating thing. Well, the rest of us will watch it. And then we'll talk to you about it. And then we'll all gather up. We'll meet back here live. We'll do a special live.

24:41 It'll be great. Meet us live here. Yeah.

24:44 We're doing this. We're going fully Regis.

24:47 And Kelly on this. I swear to God. I'm in. I mean, it's going to be a disaster, but I love a disaster.

24:53 Listen, Betty White started her career by doing morning television in L.A., and they used to do morning television for five hours.

25:00 Holy shit.

25:01 So they'd go on the air, whatever, at 6 a.m., and then go off the air at, like, whatever plus five is.

25:08 Whatever that is. Somewhere around two? I don't know. I don't know. That's all. That's what you get with live shit. This is all you. Now, it's interesting that you started talking about the L.A. live show because... And hopefully....

25:27 Well, I made a mistake at the live show in Los Angeles. As we talked about, I was nervous. But I had planned up until... right before that I was going to do the Hillside Stranglers. Yeah. And then I changed my mind because I was like, it's so awful. Awful and dense. The details is very dense.

25:50 The details, whatever.

25:50 Um, so I switched it, talked about an awesome woman. Uh, you'll hear when you do it, whatever. But I actually told the audience I was going to do it and change my mind why I would do that. I have no, that's like one of the great rules of performance. You don't tell people what you're.

26:09 Not going to fucking do and give them the opportunity to be like, Oh, I wish you had done that. You told them you weren't going to do the hillside strangler. And then instead you're going to do some woman that they'd never heard of. And it was.

26:20 Just like, Oh, the baby was like, I'm the, I'm out of here. The baby was like, I paid good fucking money to be alive. Um, I mean, I was talking about like the first city editor of a newspaper.

26:36 It was great. Now I'm getting defensive. Uh, anyway, I took all.

26:42 My research and now I'm doing the Hillside Stranglers.

26:46 How come neither of us have done it? It's crazy.

26:49 It's, you know, I think these ones that this is one of those ones, um, The cops didn't pay attention because the first three victims were sex workers and runaways. It's that thing that happens in all of the common denominator in these stories is people making a snap judgment on the value of a woman's life and then deciding whether or not they deserve to have their murder investigated.

27:15 prosecuted it's like so frustrating it feels so layered and shitty yeah and here we go and that's what you tuned in for hi everybody So this, um, from October, 1977 to February, 1978, the city of Los Angeles and most of Southern California was paralyzed with fear. Women were being murdered and brazenly. I wrote that dumped in the Hills of Los Angeles. Um, many times in full view.

27:43 Now that's something I didn't really understand until I started looking at pictures and researching for the show that I didn't do it at. Um, Truly, it was this display. And it was so fucking creepy and crazy. And oftentimes, especially in the later ones, they would be dumped in the middle of a neighborhood.

28:04 So one of the victims....

28:08 The guy walked outside of his house and sees a dead teenage girl naked and splayed out.

28:13 And he went and threw a tarp over her. Yeah.

28:15 Because he's like, the kids are going to be leaving for school and come and see this.

28:20 So you destroy evidence, but it's for the good of... Well, I mean, just because it's like, what the fuck is going on? And like, this is... It's so extreme.

28:29 And so.

28:30 And this was.

28:31 In the late 70s, and we've talked about those other murders, like the freeway killers.

28:35 Remember when there was.

28:36 It was either two or three freeway killers at the same time.

28:40 Like, just... In Southern California. There was so much. Yes. Yeah. And so then this started happening. Jeez.

28:49 So.

28:51 Their bodies were found... I don't know why I wrote this, like, synopsis paragraph. I probably spent a really long time on it, too. So, basically... When.

29:00 We're talking about the Hillside Stranglers, at first, the media was calling them the Hillside Strangler because they assumed it was one murderer. But secretly, the cops knew it was two because they were seeing where these bodies were placed. And they knew that one man couldn't be lifting, carrying, or placing these bodies where they ended up.

29:19 But they didn't release.

29:20 That to the media because they knew that that would help them later on.

29:24 Right.

29:27 But when they did find out who it was, it was a couple of cousins named Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi.

29:36 Two of the worst people that have ever existed. Absolutely. Just simply that. Trash people.

29:43 Well, and I remember a while ago, we're starting to read the true crime book about the Hillside Stranglers and the details with which they described what happened to these girls and women in Angela Buono's house. slash upholstery uh fucking shop are so upsetting and insane and extreme i stopped reading the.

30:07 Book it's there's there's sadists yes it's torture it's they tortured.

30:12 All of them and they and angelo buono especially he's like the son of fucking satan and yeah and coulter.

30:21 I couldn't think of a bad woman bad enough bad enough. That works. Um, I think it works.

30:27 He, he was an, okay. So he's born in 19, uh, October 5th, 1934. Um, he was obsessed with sex from a young age and he, there was problems from the beginning. Uh, he obviously had a lifelong hatred of women. Um, he, uh, had a criminal record by the time he was a teenager for a sexual assault, um, doing things like pulling down a girl's underwear, bragging that he had raped, um, women when he or girls when he was 14 like he was he was fucked up um when he was 17 he married his high school sweetheart he.

31:10 Had his high school sweetheart yeah how is that the word sweet yeah it doesn't really how about just the the woman who's the girl who stuck around him well the girl.

31:19 That got like it's almost like you know when ricky ticky tabby when the snake goes up and you're hypnotized by the eyes i think that's what it is sure it's that thing where you're like Oh my God, this swarthy Italian is paying so much attention to me.

31:32 Oh, he just hit me in the face. Oh wait, now he's sorry. He wants to marry me.

31:36 Yup.

31:37 Yup. I would love to get married. Um, the magazines say I should. Yeah. Uh, okay.

31:43 So he, um, basically he abandons his high school sweetheart after, uh, and, and her and their unborn child.

31:52 Thank God for her. Once he finds out, he knocks her up. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

31:56 Then he marries a woman named Mary Castillo. Again, domestic violence issues. Then, not until he rapes their two-year-old daughter does she leave him.

32:10 And then she goes back to him after that. What the fuck?

32:14 Then she eventually finds herself. He handcuffs her and holds her at gunpoint. And then she finally leaves him.

32:23 But it's like, that's why I couldn't read the book. I was just like, this is... Who are these fucking people? What the fuck? Why doesn't a big truck ever hit that guy? Seriously. I mean, it probably has. Like, I bet there's a lot of people who have died that, like, were those people. That super deserved it. Yeah. It's like the end of The Lovely Bones when the killer just gets... Don't, don't, don't.

32:44 You're right, you're right. Read The Lovely Bones, though. It's fucking incredible. It's such a good book. Such an incredible book. It's such a good book. Um... And not a bad movie. Oh, yeah. That's a good movie. Okay, so... Two-year-old. A two-year-old. It's so filthy. And he's just pathological. Depraved. Yeah.

33:08 So, of course, he becomes a car upholsterer in 1975. What else are you going to do with this fucking stupid idiot?

33:13 I mean, think about that, too. When you have to be an upholsterer, it's all that, like, punching. And ripping.

33:19 We. Doesn't Tom Sibley's hometown was also a person that, remember it was the guy that made patio furniture and like the weird tools and stuff.

33:28 Yeah. That was like a way in way back episodes.

33:30 Yeah. The guy, the guy killed his mother. That was a crazy story, but it reminded me of the same thing. Be careful of upholsterers. Sorry.

33:36 The upholsterer, the murdering upholsterers right now are fucking. They're crying.

33:40 They're fucking calling 911.

33:45 This is not a, this, this is not a thing to call 911. No. Please. Please.

33:50 Just email Steven. He loves to hear from you. Okay, so that's Angelo Buono. He's the older cousin. He's definitely the cult leader in this two-man cult of fucking terror.

34:02 I hate his guts. He's really disgusting. Okay. And when he has.

34:07 Like when he, when he looks like an old fashioned, uh, you know, Brooklyn grocer in some of his pictures, but then he grows this fucking handlebar mustache and he, it's satanic.

34:19 He looks like the most evil person on the planet. Is he the tall skinny one? No, he's skinny, but he's smaller.

34:25 Okay.

34:26 Bianchi, uh, Kempf Bianchi, the younger cousin was the taller one.

34:29 Okay. Okay. And he was born May 22nd, 1951. He's 17 years younger.

34:35 Okay. He's definitely like a sad sack follower.

34:38 Yeah. So he was abandoned by his mother who was a sex worker and an alcoholic. He's, it gets adopted by the Bianchi family. Um, he's troubled all his childhood bedwetter until he was a teenager.

34:51 So a violent tempers, compulsive liar.

34:56 And of course, because he fell off a jungle gym when he was six, it is leaving him with a head injury, frontal lobe damage. And they think that had that basically affected his personality.

35:12 Yeah.

35:13 So, um, that's quite the combination is you're the sadist older cousin and then the kind of like, maybe could have been fine.

35:21 Right. But then, uh, bad influence. Yeah, definitely was not. And, and it's like influence, but also just the perfect opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

35:33 There's nothing like that thing where like someone gets an idea and you know, you shouldn't do it, but if they're into it, you're like, well then fine. I mean, it's that weird, like, Look, I've got this older cousin that just loves to be the devil. Okay, so he wasn't that smart, easy to influence, and he had already had a failed marriage. He tried to go to college.

35:59 He wanted to study psychology. He drops out after a semester. No shame in that, buddy.

36:04 Hey, been there.

36:04 Been there, done it. He also was obsessed with being a cop. Ooh.

36:11 Yeah. But he was rejected because of psych tests. Ooh. He failed psych tests.

36:17 And he had a girlfriend named Kelly Boyd. So he basically, in 1976... he in beginning of 1976, he moves from Rochester, New York to LA to, um, to go live with his older cousin, Angelo. They don't have a lot of money. So they get the idea that they're going to become pimps. And the way they're going to do that is they're going to go out and they're going to kidnap a couple of runaways and basically make them be sex workers for them.

36:46 So they do that.

36:47 They actually find, um, two teenage girls, uh, once named, Sabra Hannon and one's named Becky Spears. And they take him back to Angela's apartment. And they're like, this is what you have to do now. They're being pimped by those two. And Becky meets a lawyer and she tells him what's happening. She tells him the situation and he helps her escape, get out of the city. And when she goes, then Sabra then has the guts to then run away herself. So they get away.

37:21 Oh, my God.

37:23 So they then impersonate police officers and kidnap another runaway. They put her in the girl's bedroom. They set it up to have her be their next sex worker. And they buy a trick list from a sex worker named Debra Noble.

37:45 So this is basically... a bunch of dudes.

37:47 Names who frequent, um, sex workers so that they can get ahold of people directly and basically start their own pimping empire.

37:56 Fucked up time, man. Yes. Super gross. No, well now here's the thing.

38:00 They, uh, so Deborah and her friend Yolanda Washington go deliver that trick list to Angela's apartment in, uh, October of 1977. But when they go to use it, they find out it's fake. Oh, so, They get furious, of course. They get into their car. They go try to find Deborah Noble, and they can't find her. But then they remember, as they're driving around to find her, that when they were talking to Yolanda, that Yolanda told them that sometimes she works, because she was also a sex worker, she works on Sunset Boulevard.

38:34 So they go down there to find her, and they do find her. Yeah.

38:38 The next night, October 18th, 1977, the body of Yolanda Washington is found on a hillside in Forest Lawn Cemetery.

38:47 What? That's, like, right there. Uh-huh.

38:50 It's, yeah, close by. Also, she's naked. She's posed in a grotesque, lewd position. She's got ligature marks, strangulation marks, ligature marks on her wrists, strangulation marks. She had been strangled with, like, rope around her neck. and they determined she was raped. She was a 20-year-old woman. Oh, my God.

39:14 But when the police arrive, one of the detectives on the case is Detective Frank Salerno.

39:20 Oh, shit.

39:20 Frank.

39:21 Frank. We've talked about Frank Salerno a lot.

39:23 He went on after this case, so he worked this case, and. Then when it was over, and what, six years later, whenever, when the Night Stalker case started, he also, he took what he learned and from the mistakes that they made on the Hillside Strangler case and And it helped him catch the Night Stalker.

39:46 Oh, my God.

39:48 He also was assigned to the Natalie Wood drowning.

39:52 Oh, shit. And there's a lot of controversy about, obviously.

39:56 We all know about that, about how that report came through and how it was found to be a drowning and nothing suspicious and all that.

40:05 It's really interesting. He's like.

40:07 it's the timing of him being a detective on LAPD is so crazy. Yeah. Is he like in the center of everything? So, so two weeks later, November 1st, 1977, around six in the morning, a homeowner in La Crescenta, this is the one I was talking about. Um, and La Crescenta is 12 miles North of Los Angeles.

40:28 Don't you live there?

40:30 Oh shit.

40:30 Sorry.

40:31 Edit that out. So he was like, um, no, no. Steven, do you want to say where you live? Isla South Pasadena.

40:38 Oh.

40:39 Okay. Have you ever thought of moving to La Crescenta? I think you should move to La Crescenta. I mean, I want to hear about it, though. It's great. Tell us about it, Karen.

40:47 It's a little kind of upper middle class neighborhood. It's nestled right into those foothills. Are they foothills or are they regular hills?

40:59 I don't know. Okay, so.

41:02 Two weeks later, on November 1st, 1977, around 6 in the morning, a homeowner in La Crescenta walks outside of his house and sees the dead body of a 15-year-old girl laying on the hillside across the street from his home. So he goes and covers her body with a tarp because all these kids are about to leave their.

41:22 House to go to school.

41:24 And soon they identify the victim as 15-year-old Judy Miller. She was a runaway, sometimes sex worker in Hollywood. And she also has ligature marks on her wrists, her neck, and her ankles. And so now they know she's bound and she was murdered somewhere else and bound somewhere else and then dumped in this a second location.

41:49 And this is detective Salerno.

41:51 When he is looking at Judy's body, he notices a, a, a piece of light colored fluff on her eyelid and he pulls it and saves it.

42:00 For evidence later.

42:02 And this was like, I think before like really intense forensic testing, but he was like, This must be a clue. And that kind of detective work that he did on this is the reason they eventually were able to make the case once they found them. She was Judy was last seen alive October 31st, 1977. She was talking to a man in a large two-tone sedan on Sunset Boulevard.

42:23 Eventually what everyone finds out is that's the car that Angelo and Kent. Ken Bianchi used to drive around in, oftentimes telling people they were undercover cops or detectives.

42:36 And they would.

42:37 Basically go drive up and down the strip and arrest girls saying they're bringing them in for solicitation.

42:44 Oh, my God.

42:45 Handcuff them, get them into the back of the car, and then kidnap them and take them to Angela's house.

42:51 Ew.

42:52 Yeah. So they, of course, they're getting these people that they... They're going willingly because they think they're in trouble.

43:00 Yeah.

43:02 So they tell Judy that she's being arrested for solicitation. They take her back to the upholstery shop. She's raped, tortured, sodomized, and strangled. Five days later, on November 6, 1977, another naked body with the same ligature marks is found on Chevy Chase Drive near a country club in Glendale.

43:21 Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. I think I know that country club. It's on that weird turn. Chevy Chase and what?

43:30 Oh. Yeah.

43:32 It's, like, in Glendale. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know exactly where.

43:36 So the night before Elisa Kasten is, she's a 21 year old wait, waitress at health fair restaurant on Hollywood and vine. She leaves work at nine. She's driving home. She gets pulled over by two plainclothes police officers.

43:50 No such thing guys.

43:51 Right. They handcuff her, tell her that she needs to be taken in for questioning. And then, uh, the next morning her naked body is found and there's evidence of rape. Um, But she's found on the other side of a tall guardrail, and that's when police first observe. They're like, there's no way one guy, because she, based on, like, the size of her body, they're like, one person couldn't have just, like, lifted this over easily. And that's when they were, like, pretty sure that it was a two-man killing team.

44:23 Wow.

44:25 So the next thing that happened, which is fascinating, 24-year-old Catherine Laurie Baker, who is the daughter of character actor Peter Laurie.

44:35 Oh, my God. With the big eyes.

44:37 Yeah. Who's in the movie M. If you've never seen the movie M, it's really amazing. And he plays a serial killer in it. It's a great fucking old movie. And he's a really famous character actor. There's a bunch of old Bugs Bunny cartoons that would have... Remember when they would do episodes where there would be caricatures of old famous people? So it's like Clark Gable and Lauren Bacall.

44:59 Peter Lorre is in those cartoons. He's the guy with the really big eyes that kind of is like, oh, he always.

45:05 Anyway. Love him. So.

45:08 They fucking try to pull the we're fake cops, show us your ID, you're arrested scam on Catherine Laurie Baker. But when she pulls out her ID, like she's looking through her wallet, they see a picture of her sitting on Peter Laurie's lap. They see that she, her name is Catherine Laurie Baker. She says, yeah, that's my dad.

45:27 And they let her go. What?

45:28 Because they're big fans of Peter Laurie. Shut the fuck up.

45:31 Yeah.

45:32 And later on, she was... interviewed.

45:35 And she told the interviewer that when she was talking to them, she was not, they were, there was nothing about them that was scary. She said it was a casual conversation that she got no bad vibes off of them whatsoever, which creeped me out really bad when I read that. The next, on November 10th, they find another body in Franklin Canyon, um, north of Beverly Hills. It's, uh, um, she's identified as Jill Barcom. She's a 19 year old She had just moved to L.A. from New York City.

46:05 She had been a sex worker in New York City, but she'd moved to Hollywood. And her body showed the same ligature and strangulation marks.

46:15 She'd also been raped.

46:16 And this is when police now are sure that they have a serial killer. So that was November 10th. Eight days later, on November 18th, The body of a high school student is found on Pico Boulevard. It's eventually identified as 17-year-old Kathleen Robinson, who went to high school. She lived with her mom in Hollywood, and she had last been seen the day before at the beach.

46:39 Then this one's so fucked.

46:41 I mean, they're all terrible, but on November 20th, 1977, a nine-year-old boy finds the bodies of two girls in a trash heap on a hillside near Dodger stadium.

46:53 Oh my God. So horrible.

46:56 Um, 12 year old Dolly Cepeda and 14 year old Sonia Johnson. Um, a week before they had last seen been seen a week before getting off the bus on York Boulevard at Avenue 46, um, which I think is.

47:09 Right in Eagle Rock.

47:10 Yeah.

47:11 And, um, they, they had walked up to a two tone sedan that had two men sitting inside of it. Um, and they, The bodies, when they were found, had been a week later, so they had decomposed, but police could still tell that they had been strangled and raped. On the same day that those bodies were found, hikers on a hillside between Glendale and Eagle Rock find a naked body of a dead woman who is identified as 20-year-old Christina Weckler. She's a quiet honor student at the Art Center College of Design. She also has ligature marks on her wrist, neck, and ankles. But unlike the other victim, the police noticed she has two puncture marks in her arm that they later find out she had been injected with Windex while she was being tortured.

48:07 By them at some point. What the fuck?

48:11 And they would also come to learn that Christina was Kenneth Bianchi's neighbor.

48:15 Oh, no.

48:17 Okay, so then three days after Christina's body is found, a body is discovered near the Los Feliz off-ramp.

48:26 Of the 101. So there's pictures of. The five. The five. Sorry, the five.

48:35 What the fuck?

48:37 Um.

48:38 That's the, I've seen that picture. It's, and it's like, right. It's right there. I mean, if you were driving by, you would have seen it driving by.

48:47 Yeah.

48:47 It's so crazy and awful.

48:50 Um, and I mean, Jesus, it's, I drive on that freeway. I never, I'm not on that freeway. I spend all my time on that freeway. Um, so the severity of the decomposition of that body prevented authorities to from being able to tell if she had been raped or tortured.

49:08 So, okay.

49:09 So they put her out and she was in decomp already. Cause someone would have seen it earlier.

49:14 No, She had been missing, but they found the body there. From what I remember, the picture I saw, there's a bunch of ivy and shrubs.

49:24 So I think she was.

49:26 Underneath that, but just enough so that people didn't see it. Sadly, You can look up all these crime scene photos. They're very upsetting.

49:36 Yeah.

49:37 And there's a ton of them because it was... They're like the police crime scene photos are on the internet.

49:42 Yeah. And it's also strange because they all look the same. Yeah.

49:46 It's like a bunch of men in suits standing around and a little body, a little naked body.

49:51 Kind of in the distance. It's just insane. So.

49:56 It turned out that this was the body of 28-year-old Evelyn Jane King. She'd been missing since November 9th. So she had been gone for like two weeks, over two weeks. So this is when they start the task force for the Hillside Stranglers, singular. So it's 30 LAPD officers, the Sheriff's Department and the Glendale Police Department all coming together.

50:18 to catch this killer, but still the police don't reveal that they know it's two men. Yeah.

50:24 They let everybody call it the Hillside Struggle. But shouldn't they tell people that so that, you know, women can be a little more.

50:31 you know, I bet today maybe they would have and they, but I bet you they were trying to do, they were trying to like be prepared for when they're caught and nobody could get, they couldn't get.

50:44 Out of it. Pick something else.

50:46 I mean, yeah, maybe because, well, it's just the thing, the thing to me that's so disturbing is that thing of impersonating a policeman and Having two of them, which is what, that's actually much more believable.

50:57 Totally. For people impersonating policemen. Totally. It's, it's, it's, it kind of puts, it shouldn't, but it puts you a little more at ease that there's two people there. Yes. You know, even if they're like for, for whatever reason, not even just for fake cops, just.

51:11 Right.

51:11 But the, the fake cop thing pisses me off so much. It's so unfair. That and the, when, when someone accidentally like rear ends you quote unquote accidentally, and then. You have to get out of your car. Yeah. Those are such fucking dirty tricks. I hate it so much. It's really awful.

51:26 And also, it's just such a strange thing to think back then there were only pay phones. So, like, if you had a fucking emergency... If somebody rear-ended you, it was raining, it's the middle of the night, you're in your car, and then some dude walks up and, like, knock, knock, knock, get out of the car... You couldn't even go, hold on a second, let me just make sure the cops come here first.

51:46 There's nothing you could do. That scene in Zodiac when he puts her fucking tire... back on or whatever and then she starts driving and the tire comes off.

51:55 I i've watched zodiac probably 10 times i skipped that scene because it's the scariest it's the best scene in the movie whoever it is does such a great realistic job of like what'd you fucking do yeah she had a baby with her yeah okay so less than a week later so also you have to think about this too these things are just keep happening i know it's so quick it's so quick it's so intense these guys are like you know Um, they're berserking. It's that, I think they call it, they say it that on last podcast on left. It's like they're gone into berserker mode. Um, and I have listened to this one on last podcast on left. I just, it's been a really long time since I've heard it. So I'm not copying you guys, Marcus. Um,

52:38 Less than a week later, November 29th, 1977, another body of an 18-year-old girl is found.

52:45 Her name's Lauren Wagner. She was a business student.

52:48 She lived with her parents in the hills in Mount Washington. She had ligature marks on her neck, ankles, and wrists. She also had burn marks on her hand. The police knew immediately she'd been tortured. And then the morning after her body was found, her parents found her car parked across the street from their house with the door ajar.

53:08 So they go knocking on the neighbor's doors to find out if anybody saw anything. And the woman who lived in the house where the car was parked told.

53:19 Them that she had seen Lauren's abduction. What? So she says that she saw two men. One was tall and young.

53:26 The other was older and short with bushy hair. And she had heard Lauren cry out, you won't get away with this.

53:32 And she didn't call the police? I guess not.

53:37 Yeah.

53:38 Heartbreaking.

53:39 That's the other thing, too, where then easy to say in retrospect.

53:43 Yeah, I know. But you'd always want to be like, even if you're not sure, call the police.

53:47 But what could you not be sure about? Well, because it could be teenagers. Like this is the seventies. There's like, it could be teenagers smoking pot and fighting and joking.

53:59 It could be a girl fighting with her boyfriend.

54:00 Like it's just such a people were, I think much more disconnected and like unsure.

54:07 Nobody was thinking, although it is pretty.

54:09 Far into this fucking series that you don't just go, Hey, since this citywide fucking panic is happening.

54:16 Okay.

54:18 Um, but sorry, I'm sure that lady is racked with, that's, that's a life record by itself.

54:24 Um, okay. So I don't mean to witness shame her. No, please God.

54:28 So then December 14th, 1977. So, um, like two weeks later, basically the body of 17 year old Kimberly Martin is found in a deserted parking lot near City Hall downtown. The body's naked, shows signs of torture. The police discover Kimberly was a sex worker who had recently signed up with an escort agency so she wouldn't be getting Johns off the street because of the Hillside Strangler.

54:56 Oh, honey. And they called her agency, and she was the woman dispatched. Just like... They called the agency? The cousins called the agency... What the fuck? And got her and then tortured her and killed her. Oh, man.

55:15 I can only picture her being like, fuck, man.

55:20 She's being careful.

55:21 She actually is aware and taking measures to do something about it.

55:26 Yeah.

55:28 When they go to the apartment that she had been dispatched to, the address, it's empty.

55:33 It had been broken into.

55:34 The final victim was found in Los Angeles on February 17th, 1978. So it's basically a two-month rest period.

55:45 Oh, okay. Two months.

55:47 That's the longest it's been so far. A helicopter pilot spots an abandoned orange Datsun the Angeles Crest Highway and when they go police go and investigate the body of 23 year old Cindy Hudspeth a part-time waitress and student is found in the trunk she has the ligature marks she's been raped and tortured and then her body was stuffed in the trunk of the car and then the car was pushed off and she was also a neighbor of Christina Weckler uh-huh the an earlier victim and And therefore, a neighbor of Ken Bianchi. But nobody actually looked into that any further. And pretty soon after, the Hillside Strangler Task Force was disbanded.

56:30 I know.

56:30 Because they thought it was slowing down or stopping. And I'm sure financially that's always the thing they say. Around the same time, February 1978, Kelly Boyd, who is the girlfriend of Kenneth Bianchi, the two of them have a son.

56:46 And they have a son in February. And by March.

56:51 She's like, I'm leaving you. I'm going to move back in with my parents up in Washington state. I don't like, like you're going out all the time and you're never here. You don't help me. And so I'm leaving you. And he tries to get back together with her. And she basically says after three months, she's like, fine, but you have to move up here with me. Kenneth Bianchi moves to Bellingham, Washington. And basically he, thinks he's gonna like put all that behind him and start a new life he gets a job as a security guard he.

57:24 Earns the trust of his employers um he's.

57:27 Trying to be a family man and he it's still he it doesn't work so he has the murderous urges still he basically um lures on january 11th 1979. So he's, you know, been up there for like less than a year. He lures two women, 22 year old Karen Mandek and 27 year old Diane Wilder to an empty house under the guise of giving them jobs as house sitters. And he rapes and murders both of them.

57:56 Oh, my God.

57:57 And then he fucking goes home that night. His girlfriend, Kelly, later says, it was like it was just a regular night.

58:04 He came home. He asked me about the baby. We watched television and we called it a night. What the fuck? But he was so clearly.

58:12 Angela was the brains of the team because Kenneth Bianchi was arrested for these two murders the next day.

58:19 Oh, my God.

58:20 It was like they tracked it directly back to him immediately. So when he's arrested, and this is kind of the famous thing about Kenneth Bianchi, and you can see... all of these interview tapes online. And it is so fucking ridiculously stupid. He tries to plead insanity and he tries to claim that he has dissociative identity disorder and a multiple personalities basically. And so, and that it wasn't him that committed those murders. It was his other personality.

58:49 Right.

58:50 So basically he gets interviewed by a psychologist and then displays these personalities and The first personality is Ken.

58:59 He's the nice guy. And then eventually Steve comes out. Oh, my God. And Steven. Steven is the murderer. He puts on a big fake mustache. No, he already has. actually already had a very Steven like mustache.

59:13 Shit. I'm just saying something to consider Steven. So a bunch of psychologists watch these tapes. A famous one named Dr.

59:21 Martin Orn.

59:22 They watch these tapes and they're just like, he's a hundred percent faking. Like there's, there's no question.

59:28 So Steven, He.

59:29 Admits he's faking. He agrees to plead guilty and testify against Angelo in exchange for a more lenient sentence.

59:39 They do not give him a more lenient sentence.

59:41 So they're like, you're going to do all that, and then you'll get what you get.

59:44 Then you're going to fuck yourself. Yeah.

59:47 His confession is they bring him back to L.A., And thus begins a trial that lasts five years.

59:53 Holy shit. One of the longest in history. Wow. Hate to be on that jury, right?

59:58 I mean, so 450 witnesses, two years worth of testimony alone.

1:00:04 Oh, my God.

1:00:06 Angelo Buono's trial ended in 1983. The presiding judge, Ronald M. George, said this to him. I would not have the slightest reluctance to impose the death penalty in this case were it within my power to do so. Ironically, although these two defendants utilized almost every form of legalized execution against their victims, the defendants have escaped.

1:00:28 Any form of capital punishment.

1:00:30 But The jury brought back multiple life sentences because they didn't want them to escape by just being killed.

1:00:38 They wanted them to go to jail and suffer. Oh, wow. Yeah.

1:00:42 Kenneth Bianchi was given two life sentences and he's still serving them out. I was going to say one of them out, both of them out. in the Washington State Penitentiary. Angelo Bono died of a heart attack in 2002, where he was, I believe they gave him nine back-to-back life sentences. And this is just an interesting tidbit. While Kenneth Bianchi was in jail in 1980, he started.

1:01:07 A relationship with a woman named Veronica Compton.

1:01:10 She was later convicted and imprisoned for attempting to strangle a woman she had lured to a hotel in In an effort to convince authorities that the Hillside Strangler was still on the loose, Bianchi had given her semen that she smuggled out of jail to plant at the scene.

1:01:29 Whose semen? Um.

1:01:31 To make it look like... Somebody else's, right? To make it look like it was the work of the Hillside Strangler.

1:01:38 Oh, my God. Yeah.

1:01:40 And so she tried to kill somebody to prove for her jailbird boyfriend.

1:01:45 What a psychopath. Yeah. And so what happened? It... They got caught. She was convicted of, of doing that. Did she kill someone or did they? And she was in prison. No, no. Attempted. Attempted. Okay.

1:01:56 Yeah.

1:01:57 No, she got caught. What the fuck?

1:01:59 I mean, there's that I already thought went on so long, but like I have barely scratched the surface of the crazy fucking shit. You definitely, if you want to hear the good stuff, I a hundred percent recommend that you listen to that last podcast on the left series of the Hillside Stranglers podcast.

1:02:15 Please make good choices. Just make the basics of good choices in life. Like don't pull over for the police? No. Like don't date a dude.

1:02:26 Who's a murderer in prison and then don't take a cup of semen from him and try to murder someone and plant it.

1:02:33 Don't do that.

1:02:36 If somebody can't make good plans, that's not even like a good three-step plan.

1:02:42 Like we're going to do this. It's going to have this definite effect. Yeah. Like every, there's so many variables in that plan alone. Yeah.

1:02:49 And also, why would you, unless you're, you're just a killer in waiting.

1:02:55 Yeah.

1:02:55 Why would you agree to kill somebody just to try to get your boyfriend out of jail?

1:02:59 Totally. I mean, I guess you love him so much. No, no, no, no. He's not even your high school sweetheart. He's not your real sweetheart if he's asking you to murder. He's not your sweetheart.

1:03:11 He's disqualified from the sweetheart's club.

1:03:13 Yeah. Don't fall for it. Call 911. One of the sloppier presentations I've ever given. No, that was great. What are you talking about?

1:03:22 I just, because there's so much detail in it.

1:03:25 You can do part two.

1:03:27 Nah.

1:03:28 Nah, I've done what I can. Thank you. That was great. Thank you. Thank you for informing me. It's my pleasure. It's what I like to do.

1:03:42 Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates?

1:03:44 There are some. In 2023, during his detention, Kenneth Bianchi changed his name to Anthony D'Amato.

1:03:52 His most recent parole hearing was in July of 2025.

1:03:55 He was denied.

1:03:57 He's eligible again for parole in 10 years. He claims his confession was made under hypnosis and has challenged his conviction multiple times.

1:04:06 Remember the hypnosis tapes?

1:04:07 No, I need to go back and watch all this stuff.

1:04:09 He was pretending to be crazy and it's such bad acting.

1:04:12 Oh, that's right.

1:04:13 It like breaks you out into a sweat because he thinks he's doing amazing and it's so corny.

1:04:18 Yeah.

1:04:18 Anyway, in January of 2026, MGM released the docuseries The Hillside Strangler about the case and it featured new on-camera interviews, with Kenapionke, where he maintained his innocence.

1:04:33 Do you think there's any way, like, I get so silly and naive when it comes to these things, where it's like, what if? But there's just no way.

1:04:41 No, because remember, then he went up to Seattle, to the suburbs of Seattle, and was a serial rapist. Final point, his release date is set for 2025, when he's 114 years old, literally.

1:04:54 So that's the end of The Hillside Stranglers.

1:04:56 Good.

1:04:57 Now let's get into George's story. about the murder of dana.

1:05:00 Bradley this is a sadly typical story that has some crazy twists in it okay that i had never heard about until i read one of our hometown murders oh wow yeah and then i was like well that's fucking weird so.

1:05:20 This is the story of the murder of dana bradley okay so St.

1:05:25 John's is the capital and largest city in Newfoundland, Canada, and it has the lowest homicide rate in Canada.

1:05:33 Wow.

1:05:33 Yeah. I was going to, first of all, I was laughing cause I was like, what if you just pronounce that wrong?

1:05:39 Newfoundland? I thought Newfoundland. What if I did too? It's Newfoundland. I think, I think it is.

1:05:45 No, no, no, no. I was laughing because I don't, I know mispronounce that, but my friend, uh, so I have two.

1:05:52 Friends, um, Sorry.

1:05:56 My friend Paul Greenberg and his wife Jackie are from Canada.

1:06:00 And Jackie used to make these jokes. She's hilarious. And she used to.

1:06:07 do impressions of, they call them new fees and it's people from Newfoundland. And she'd always go, Oh no, I burned my face in a chip fire. And apparently that's a real thing that happens. And not just in Newfoundland, but I think around Canada, a chip fire, you make chips, you make French fries at how at your house after you've been drinking all night in the bar. So really drunk people go home, deep fry French fries and pass out, and light their house on fire.

1:06:33 Oh, my God.

1:06:34 Very common thing, apparently, to Newfoundland specifically, but let's not pin that on them entirely.

1:06:42 But that's how I'm familiar with Newfoundland. Let us know, Newfoundland. I have no point of reference, and that is now my point of reference, and I love it. It's all I have, so now it's all you have. I'm going with it.

1:06:51 Sweet.

1:06:52 Until we hear from everybody from Newfoundland.

1:06:54 Exactly.

1:06:55 Let us know. Let us know, and you will. Okay. So here we are in St. John's. It's... December 14th, 1981. 14-year-old Dana Bradley. She's like a typical grade 9 student. She's pretty good friend, friendly, full of life. She loves this art. She's just a normal girl. Um, she leaves her home, her friend's home.

1:07:22 She'd been hanging out there after school and she was headed home for her mom's birthday party.

1:07:26 Uh, I know.

1:07:28 And she goes towards the bus stop, which is a few minutes away from her friend's house.

1:07:33 It's on top sale road. It's one of the busier roads in town. And, uh, she was going to take the bus home. But it's possible she either missed the bus or just didn't feel like waiting for it. So two brothers who were taking a break from selling Christmas trees on the road, they're hanging out in their car at Tim Hortons. Good old Tim Hortons. We've been there.

1:07:55 We've been there in Canada. Yeah, that's right. I don't know if it's anywhere else. I think it's lots of places.

1:08:01 Okay, great. So it's around 5.20 p.m. They see a young girl hitchhiking while they're sitting in their truck. It's about 25 or 30 feet away.

1:08:10 From the road.

1:08:10 They didn't know her, but they remember her because they remarked on how young she was to be hitchhiking.

1:08:15 Even though hitchhiking was kind of a normal thing, especially a small town like this back then.

1:08:22 According to the brothers, they saw a car pull up. It was a 73 to 76 four-door Dodge Dart or Plymouth Valiant. It was beige, tan, or faded yellow with noticeable rust marks, and a male driver offered Dana a ride. she got in and they drove off and the brothers were the last people to see Dana alive. So because Dana had phoned home before leaving her friend's house to say she was on her way home, her parents and family were immediately like, something is going on. Um, they file a police report, but of course nothing can be done that night. because that's how it always goes. But it's hours and days go by and Dana is not seen or heard from and her parents know something is wrong.

1:09:07 She's not the type of girl who would run away.

1:09:09 Four days later, on December 18th, 1981, In a remote wooded area off a dirt road just outside St. John's, this couple and their kids are out looking for a Christmas tree to chop down.

1:09:23 Oh, no. I know.

1:09:24 And the dad spots Dana's body about six miles away from the road where she had been hitchhiking.

1:09:33 Oh, okay. Dad sees the body, thinks it's a mannequin, of course.

1:09:36 Yeah.

1:09:37 It's not.

1:09:37 So Dana's autopsy shows that she had died from numerous blows to the head with a blunt object.

1:09:43 And was sexually assaulted. But a weird thing is that Dana had been found fully dressed in her school clothes, even though she had been sexually assaulted and had been laid out carefully, uh, burial style. So like placed very neatly with her arms over her chest. And also her school books had been tucked neatly under her arm. Oh no. Like, That's like staging. Yeah. Like almost lovingly placed her there, it seems. Right.

1:10:13 So because of the way she was laid out, police thought maybe that the killer was remorseful, that that was, you know, him trying to kind of make it better.

1:10:22 Yeah.

1:10:22 So they made an appeal to him through the media. The murder didn't come forward, but the brothers who had seen her get in the car did. And they also told detectives about how the driver had to reach over to the passenger side door to open the door from the inside. almost like something was wrong with the outer door handle. So that was another point of that car that they had. And they were also able to give police a good description, and they got a police sketch.

1:10:45 Two other witnesses came forward saying that they saw the car and a man emerge from the woods. So they saw the car by the side of the road, and a man emerged from the woods the night Dana disappeared between midnight and 1 a.m., where she was later found. And they said the passenger side door of the car was open and that the dome light was illuminated in the car. And they reported that the man had no jacket despite being in the middle of December and freezing.

1:11:11 So the search for Dana's killer became the biggest murder investigation in Newfoundland history, as well as one of the biggest in Canadian history at the time. In the first week, 800 cars were examined that matched the description of the car that had picked up Dana. And there were 250 prime suspects at one point, but nothing seemed to pan out.

1:11:32 So Finally, though, five years later, in 1986, detectives received an anonymous note saying the murderer was an ex-con with a violent past named David Somerton, and he really strongly resembled the sketch. So they bring him in, and he confesses to Dana's murder.

1:11:55 Shit.

1:11:55 He told them where his car that he used to abduct her was and where the murder weapon was. And he also described how he killed her and it was consistent with the facts.

1:12:05 So police searched.

1:12:07 For the murder weapon. It was near where Dana's body had been found. He said he had buried it. And police had thoroughly searched the area before, but they went back and this time they removed trees and they.

1:12:19 Dug up earth and stuff trying to find it. But they never found anything. They also went to the local dump where he said he had left the car, but it wasn't there either. In all, nearly $ 1 million.

1:12:33 Were spent digging up and searching those two sites, but nothing surfaced.

1:12:38 Then this dude....

1:12:41 Uh, Somerton recants and says he only confessed after having been interrogated for 18 hours.

1:12:47 Oh shit. And then at the time of his confession, he was on heavy medication.

1:12:50 And so then he denied any involvement with Dana's murder and the police didn't have the evidence to hold him any longer, but he was charged with public mischief and sentenced to two years in jail for misleading the RCMP.

1:13:03 Oh shit. Good old mountain mounted police.

1:13:07 Uh, So before you feel bad for him about that, though, years later, he was convicted of sexually assaulting a minor in two separate incidents.

1:13:15 So this guy's a creep, too.

1:13:17 Just coincidentally, not the killer, but still a really bad guy.

1:13:22 Maybe, yeah.

1:13:24 Fuck. Yeah.

1:13:26 So another man was sentenced to nine months in prison.

1:13:30 In 1982 for making cruel, harassing phone calls to the family, to Dana's family.

1:13:35 But otherwise, the case kind of.

1:13:37 This didn't go cold because they wouldn't let it go cold, but there was no other real clues, but they kept getting tips and stuff.

1:13:43 The person who makes harassing phone calls to a murder victim's family who didn't do it is as bad as the killer. Uh-huh.

1:13:52 There's, you are psychotic. Yeah. Disgusting.

1:13:56 Uh-huh.

1:13:57 Who, what the fuck? Yeah. But people make good decisions.

1:14:04 Pick up that phone and actually call 911 on yourself.

1:14:09 That's the best decision you can make in that point. I am a piece of shit. What kind of terrible shit.

1:14:16 Has had to happen to you for you to be the harasser of a murder victim's family?

1:14:21 It's just beyond. Totally.

1:14:23 I can't. I know that's a surprising stance, but I'm fucking standing by it.

1:14:29 But it's like, who's worse, the murderer who then makes the calls or just some dude who fucking didn't even do it and then makes the calls?

1:14:35 I mean, they're both bad, obviously. They're all in the shithead fraternity, in my opinion.

1:14:39 Absolutely.

1:14:40 But it's just like, it's not a prank.

1:14:43 No.

1:14:44 I hate prank culture. I just fucking hate it. Pranks.

1:14:47 Life is hard enough without someone pulling a fucking chair out from underneath you and videotaping it.

1:14:52 Oh, God. Please, Lord. The biggest fear.

1:14:54 No.

1:14:54 That one? That one. The chair one? No, just being pranked.

1:14:58 Yes.

1:14:59 And videotaped. And videotaped while I'm pranked. That's not funny. It's just mean. Nothing's funny. Okay. Nothing's funny. All right, let's cut to 2014.

1:15:10 It's been 33 years since Dana was murdered.

1:15:13 Oh, fuck.

1:15:14 RCMP, they're contacted by a man who uses a pseudonym to protect his identity named Robert. He tells them that he witnessed Dana's murder and the events that followed.

1:15:27 Whoa.

1:15:29 At the time, 33 years before, he was six years old. Uh-oh.

1:15:34 He tells them that two years before that moment, after a lifetime of alcoholism, he quit drinking. Once he quit drinking and his mind started to heal, he said, memories resurfaced.

1:15:49 Oh no.

1:15:50 He first had memories of being sexually abused by this dude who was a close and trusted friend of his family. And then the memory of that man murdering Dana resurfaced.

1:16:02 Oh my God. So Robert's story is that the man, so his name is the man. We don't, Yeah. The man. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:10 Was driving his father's car that day. His dad had a six year old. No, the man, the molested man.

1:16:16 Sorry.

1:16:16 Let's call him the bad man. Great. Okay.

1:16:18 Robert says that the bad man was driving his father's car that day. It was a.

1:16:23 1972 Dodge Dart. Uh huh. And that Robert was in the backseat of the car.

1:16:28 They were leaving McDonald's on top sale road, which is where Dana got a ride from.

1:16:34 Right. When the man noticed Dana hitchhiking.

1:16:38 Robert confirmed that his father's car had trouble with the passenger side door and that it had to be opened from the inside. And from the back seat, Robert had told him how to open it.

1:16:47 Holy shit. And Dana got in. Okay. This is true corroborating story facts, right? Here we go. Okay. Sorry. This is going to get solved, isn't it?

1:16:59 Please.

1:17:01 So here we go. Before you call 911. Okay.

1:17:04 Nothing seemed unusual as they made their way to her house. But when she pointed out which house was hers, then the bad man kept going, and that's when panic set in. And Robert said it set in in him, and he could tell it set in in Dana as well. Dana tried to jump out of the car at one point, but the bad man grabbed her and sped up and kept telling her he was going to turn around.

1:17:25 He's like, I'm going to turn around. Don't worry about it.

1:17:27 But eventually he pulls off the road, and Robert remembers that the bad man kept telling Dana that he just wanted a kiss.

1:17:35 Ugh.

1:17:36 And she was crying and fighting him. And then she either scratched or pinched him or did something to hurt him because Robert remembers him kind of jumping back. And at that moment, Dana bolts out of the car. And then Robert remembers and how insanely quickly it was that the bad man ran after her.

1:17:56 So Robert says he got out of the car at this point, too. The six year old's like, what's going on? And by this time, the bad man had caught Dana and they fought to the ground. as the six-year-old's watching. Robert said he stood near the car and watched as the murder and sexual assault took place. He said as a six-year-old, he wasn't able to understand what was happening.

1:18:19 He said the murder weapon was the tire iron from the car, and that then when it was over, the man put Dana's body in the trunk and drove towards where they were going to leave Dana's body along, and along the way, disposed of the tire iron.

1:18:36 The bad man, do I have to keep calling him that? I mean, I can follow it now. The man dumped Dana over an embankment and then he retrieved her body, realizing it was a bad place to leave her.

1:18:48 Ugh.

1:18:50 Brought it to where it was ultimately found.

1:18:54 And then, then Robert says, quote, and he was trying to get me to leave because he said her mom and dad would be looking for her. And he told me that she was going to go to school the next morning, trying to get him to come away. And Robert was like crying and didn't want to leave her in the forest.

1:19:08 He was scared. Oh my God. This is horrible. I know.

1:19:12 And then Robert says, so the man says that we have to leave her here. Her parents are going to come so she can go to school the next day. And then Robert says.

1:19:21 Well, then she needs her books. So the man went, goes up to the car, gets her books and puts them under her arm because the six year old is like, well, we need to give her her books back. This is the fucking saddest thing of all time. I know. Okay.

1:19:39 Later that night, Robert then says the man woke him up and made him come back out with him. to the side of the body to look for his jacket that he had left behind. And he says he thinks the reason he made him come with him is in case he got pulled over or whatever.

1:19:54 It would be like, well, my kid's here with me. Yeah, yeah. So they pull over to the side of the road.

1:19:59 He stays in the car. And the man goes into the woods to look for his jacket. And Robert says a car drives by. And remember, a car had seen them on the side.

1:20:08 Of the road?

1:20:09 Yep.

1:20:10 This couple, they....

1:20:15 So they had said that the dome light was on, the passenger side door was open. And Robert says that he remembers a car coming by late at night and says.

1:20:23 He was scared.

1:20:24 So he pushed the seat forward and got out of the car and left the door open. So that's, explain that.

1:20:31 Just every detail he is matching and explaining perfectly. God, it's like, it's horrifying, but it's also insanely satisfying.

1:20:41 But wait.

1:20:42 Oh, fuck.

1:20:43 Sorry no come on is anything ever really satisfying in this podcast not at all never um and and the people had reported that the man had no jacket when he came out of the woods when they saw him right and uh and in one in one of his statements robert said that he had taken his jacket off to like carry you know to carry the body because he was sweating and stuff probably so that's why he left his jacket behind they drove off um he didn't get his jacket Then they go back home. Robert says he holds a work light while the man washes the trunk of the car using the supplies.

1:21:17 And then he goes to bed. And four days later, Dana's body is found. So Robert, At this point, as an adult, tells police that he thinks his father's car, the one that was used in the abduction, is buried on a former property that belonged to his dad.

1:21:33 And I was like, what the fuck? But apparently people bury.

1:21:35 Their fucking cars in their backyards.

1:21:37 Yeah. Is this a thing? That's a thing. Okay.

1:21:39 When you live out in the country, you don't want, like, you're not going to take it anywhere.

1:21:45 Why? Well, I mean, like, it's just like a thing where it's like, oh, just go put it out there. Because there's tons of room.

1:21:51 Yeah.

1:21:51 So.

1:21:52 Like maybe it costs money to tow or whatever. So the easier thing is just get out there with some manual labor and get rid of it. It's a little bit like, you know, if you live way out, like when you're kind of like way out in the boondocks, everything is a big pain in the ass and takes like, you know, you'd have to drive it into the junkyard for 45 minutes or whatever.

1:22:21 This is what happens when you grow up in suburbia. You just don't know fucking country things.

1:22:26 Anything about country life. You're a horse person. I didn't even have an opportunity. I didn't even meet a horse that wasn't miserable.

1:22:33 I wish I was a horse person. I was like, I was like the person who didn't have the right boots. Like there's horse people. That's like the equestrian. That's like rich people. We were like the bareback, you know, seventies children that were like, we're probably going to get that bucked off pretty soon.

1:22:48 We're like the kids with arm casts and shit. No shoes. I love it. Okay. Cars buried. Okay. So after a 16-month investigation into Robert's story, the RCMP refused to try to retrieve the vehicle. And they also dismissed Robert's story completely, saying it didn't match the known facts of the case. Oh, I disagree. I agree.

1:23:13 They said, quote, the vast differences between the known hard facts of the case in this person's account cannot be overstated. So they think, hold on, let me read this to you. Okay, but I will tell you that they did tell Robert that they found enough evidence to corroborate his claims of sexual abuse against the bad man.

1:23:32 Yeah.

1:23:33 He's identified as Thomas Carey, who was actually arrested and convicted of sexually abusing children in the 90s.

1:23:39 Shit.

1:23:39 So he was a legit fucking pedophile.

1:23:41 Yeah.

1:23:42 And chronic. Yeah, and he served time, but he's now free, which is fun.

1:23:46 Whoa.

1:23:47 In Newfoundland? Yeah, in a different city. Ooh. Yeah.

1:23:52 So, but as far as this dude murdering Dana, they believe that Robert read about the case and became a victim of false memory syndrome.

1:24:02 Mm-hmm.

1:24:03 Where a person believes a memory to be true and it colors their whole life and they believe everything. So they think that he just read so much about it because the stuff he read, the stuff that.

1:24:14 He knew was stuff you could read about in the papers. Oh, so he.

1:24:18 basically got super into the case and then his memories began to fill in and match what he'd read. Right.

1:24:24 And maybe he was an alcoholic and didn't remember doing all this stuff. And it is true. They talked to his dad and his dad like corroborates that the man, who the guy was and that he was around and that he probably molested his kids. Also that, uh, in the first couple of weeks of the investigation, they did come and take a look at his car because they were checking everyone's car that was similar.

1:24:44 So maybe he had a memory of that somehow. So they don't believe it's true, but a huge, big group of civilians do believe it. They have a Facebook group and there's like 10,000 people on it.

1:24:54 Oh, amazing. And they believe Robert's story. And so in May... I do too. I know. You can be one of them.

1:25:00 In May 2016, they collect enough money to evacuate the car.

1:25:05 Evacuate. Excavate. Yep.

1:25:07 Yep.

1:25:09 Evacuate it from the ground. I mean, same idea. Yes, it is. Yeah. Just kind of going up different directions.

1:25:16 Yeah.

1:25:16 Up and out of dirt. Right. It's funny to excavate the car. It says excavate.

1:25:23 But before it was completed. So these fucking poor people are like, we believe it. We're going to do it justice for Dana. Like all they want is for Dana's murder to be solved because it's such a small town and like fucked everyone up so much. Yeah.

1:25:35 So they're doing it.

1:25:36 And then while they're doing it before it's completed, the fucking RCMP is like, Hey, guess what? You guys, we retested some old DNA from the case with advanced technologies and we're able to connect the DNA to an unknown male suspect. So it's not that fucking dude. It's just some, it's not one of the suspects we have right now.

1:25:56 It's just an unknown. Not, they have to test it against the suspects, but it's not, a man is not in the data, in the system.

1:26:05 Whoa. So those poor people are like, shit. And then they're like, yeah. That seems a little mean.

1:26:14 I want to believe in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

1:26:16 Yeah, we all do. Because they have such great chins.

1:26:19 But.

1:26:20 I don't like this. I know. I don't like, I don't like this. I know.

1:26:25 How about we independently check the DNA?

1:26:28 Us in the pod loft. Oh, I've got my spinning, my spinning thing. How about in the DNA loft? We make this into a DNA loft. We seal this off. Seal it off. No cats allowed. We get those, it's like hazmat suits.

1:26:41 Yeah.

1:26:42 We handle things. Yeah. Gloves.

1:26:45 Yeah.

1:26:45 Yeah. Yeah. We'll do it.

1:26:48 Um, and they, so they tested the DNA against Thomas Carey, no match. He's officially ruled out as a suspect. Um, but there are also other cases of missing and murdered women in the area around that time that might be connected to Dana. In fact, the chief medical examiner, Simon Avis stated that at least two serial killers have been active in the province and that one of them is due to be released from prison, but he wouldn't.

1:27:12 Tell them who it was. Oh shit. Guess what? That's fucked. So they have... Yeah, right. God, tell me more, please. I know.

1:27:24 They still received many new tips, but for now, all they can do is test the DNA against their hundreds of suspects in the hopes of finally finding Dana Bradley's killer.

1:27:33 Wow. And that's the murder of Dana Bradley. It's so intense.

1:27:39 It... I feel like you said the perfect detail at the beginning that hooked me in in the worst way. Those brothers seeing her hitchhiking and thinking she was too little to be hitchhiking just set that tone of like, She's a baby.

1:27:55 She's a baby.

1:27:57 Yeah.

1:27:57 And that happens. I know.

1:27:59 We read these stories all the time and we get like, the more I do these stories and you see this repetitive, the habit of calling people prostitutes and hookers and.

1:28:12 um, basically they're so.

1:28:13 Especially in, you know, the Hillside Stranglers, it's leads with prostitute, prostitute.

1:28:20 She's a prostitute. It's dismissive and totally reductive.

1:28:23 And it's like, they should, it should be like, she looked like she was 12.

1:28:28 Like it's that, but also like saying she was 14, you think of her a little more, a little older, like at 14, I had gotten into some shit, you know, but then you look at an actual 14 year old and everyday normal 14 year old, especially back in the fucking seventies and eighties. And they were little babies. They're little babies.

1:28:47 And even, I mean, like what they look like is, when I went home, um, for the holidays, I remember sitting, my sister and I laughed about this. Remember the guy that was running, um, for something in the South. And he was the one that had been kicked out of the mall for harassing teenage girls. And it was that whole thing where people started talking about like, it's fine.

1:29:09 And you know, down here people can, you're allowed to date 16 year olds and all that weird shit. when we went home, my sister and I were sitting at Christmas and one of my, my two nieces were there. One of them had just gone off to college and one I believe was a freshman. And I was like, would you want Anna to be dating that guy? Like, would you really go online and be like, it's fine that my niece dates that old man? Like teenage girls are such a fetishized kind of like, you know, sexualized and like overly matured group where it's like, oh yeah, hot teenage.

1:29:49 Girl, whatever, where it's like, they're children. They're children and they have had no life experience yet. They don't know how to live, you know, make good decisions yet and be on their own. And they're not, they're not adults. Their brains aren't fucking complete. And they're, they're still half children.

1:30:08 Like that's the thing to remember.

1:30:10 It kind of fucked me up.

1:30:11 When I, so, you know, I did a lot of shit and I was 13 and 14. And then when I was in my twenties, I was with a guy for a long time of my boyfriend who had a daughter who was 10 when I met him. And then, so I was with him for a few years and saw her at 13 and 14. And it kind of hit me as like, Seeing her and how sweet and young and innocent she was.

1:30:33 Yeah. I thought I was a big adult back then. Of course.

1:30:36 And it kind of put everything into perspective of what I had done and what had been done to me back then.

1:30:42 Yeah. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's troubling.

1:30:47 It's heavy shit, but it's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:30:52 Yeah. Try to be as young as you can for as long as you can.

1:30:55 Oh, do it.

1:30:56 It's not... You'll grow up inevitably. It's going to happen. Yeah, it's a real bummer. Kids don't ever listen when you say stuff like that. Do kids listen to this? Stop listening to this. Yeah, we've met a couple. That's true.

1:31:07 Oh, little baby children, girls that come up.

1:31:10 I know. Always with their mothers. Always with their mothers. Listen to your mothers. And we're back. Do you have any updates? No.

1:31:23 And I mean, I looked it up just to see if there's any little speck of an update. You know, they have the DNA. There's nothing. And it's, I mean, I feel like this has got to be one of those ones where it's like in the next year or two, we're going to hear something. We have to. It's a 14-year-old girl who was brutally murdered like 40 years ago. Like, let's get this solved. Not yet, but maybe... Well, the way that.

1:31:49 It seems like cold case teams are being put together these days, I feel like that's part of the story. Every time we hear about something getting cleared, it's because they had just put a task force together or they finally had money for a cold case team.

1:32:05 Right.

1:32:07 Yeah.

1:32:07 Hopefully, when we do rewind episodes and do this one again, then hopefully by then they'll be... Updates.

1:32:15 And it'll just be you and I looking in the mirror.

1:32:17 Crying.

1:32:19 Now I'm just weeping uncontrollably. Now it's time for Good Things of the Week.

1:32:31 Um, so, all right, here's the, I don't know. This is the end of the show where we do say nice things. It doesn't have to have a name, right?

1:32:38 It doesn't have to have a name, but we've been getting suggestions in a way that is in it's endearing and it's also hilarious.

1:32:45 People are trying and they're trying in a way.

1:32:48 That makes me feel better that there is no fucking proper name for this. They're trying so hard and none of them are working.

1:32:56 Well, you know why? Because people, you know, it's the thing of should it be funny? Should it be a pun? Should it be sincere? I think I took a picture of one that I liked. Oh, do you have the list? Stephen made a list? Stephen made a list. Here, you take it. Oh, thanks. I get to read it.

1:33:12 Georgia knows I love stuff like this. Okay, I'm going to read it and you can tell me. You just say yes or no off the top of your head. Kathy suggested happy talk.

1:33:20 Okay.

1:33:21 Megan suggested rejuvenation station. Oh, that reminds me of my vagina immediately. Rejuvenation station. Isn't that what you get to feed up in the stirrups? Yeah, isn't that plastic surgery? Vaginal rejuvenation.

1:33:39 All right.

1:33:40 That's my favorite comedy line that I ever wrote.

1:33:43 Not ever, but it was one of the earliest ones.

1:33:46 When Zach Galifianakis had his talk show, Late World with Zach on VH1.

1:33:50 Oh, yeah.

1:33:51 Yeah, I totally forgot about that. Right? It was my second staff writing job. Oh, my God.

1:33:55 And Sarah Silverman, they did a tape piece where Sarah went to a vaginal plastic surgeon to interview him.

1:34:03 And I wrote it.

1:34:04 And one of the, I mean, of course, she riffed a ton of shit herself, of course. But one of the things I wrote for her to say that she delivered so perfectly, and it was my favorite thing, is after a day of rejuvenating vaginas, how can you believe in love?

1:34:18 Yeah. And it's the way she did it.

1:34:21 That wording probably isn't right on, but the way she did it, she had this big smile on her face, and the guy just stares at her like he has no idea what she's talking about.

1:34:30 That's my brag.

1:34:32 I can figure out any way to talk about myself.

1:34:35 Have you noticed that? Yeah, but there are good stories at least.

1:34:39 Oh, God. I'm so sick of my own voice.

1:34:42 Nick suggested cheerful chasers. No. Sorry, Nick.

1:34:46 Nick.

1:34:47 And I see. Anna and Jerry suggested my favorite moment. Okay.

1:34:51 That's cute.

1:34:52 I mean, that's smart. They're marketing experts probably.

1:34:55 Yeah.

1:34:55 Because they're like, keep it on brand.

1:34:57 Yeah.

1:34:58 But I don't want to have to say that every week. Yeah. Elizabeth said, my favorite party vibes.

1:35:03 And she had a U in it, so she's from somewhere else.

1:35:05 Nice. Canada or England. Molly said, put a pin in it. I like it.

1:35:11 Hilla Monster said, post-mortem positivity.

1:35:15 That's good. It just takes so long to say. It does. Andrea said, kick some kudos. Andrea's going for it. Andrea's a mom. Um, Andrew does some high kicks. Yeah. Jenny with an eye said, post pod, pick me up.

1:35:31 Um, and then to go along with that alliteration, Tara says positivity pocket.

1:35:37 See, it's impossible. It's hilarious. Um, Colette has suggested my current jam. Okay. I don't mind it. Sarah says we should call it fucking hooray. I think that's it. I mean, that's... I think Stephen put that at the end because he knew that we would like it the best. Can you make up a jingle, Karen? Am I right?

1:36:00 For.

1:36:01 Oh, it's fucking hooray! There! There! Yes, you can. It just came out of me. That's beautiful. That was my favorite. Was it? Yeah. That was my favorite one. Fucking hooray. I mean... That's perfect. It's pretty... It pretty nailed it. All right. Fucking hooray it is. Who did it? What's her name again? That was Sarah with an H. Sarah with an H? Congratulations. I mean, you win. But Megan, Rejuvenation Station, you're right there. The closest of seconds.

1:36:27 But again, the vagina part.

1:36:29 It's not your problem. It's not your fault.

1:36:31 If this was purely a feminism podcast, they would win. What is your fucking hooray?

1:36:39 Want me to go first?

1:36:39 Yeah.

1:36:39 Do you have one?

1:36:40 Mine is that someone suggested I start reading this again, and I'm so glad I did because it's so positive.

1:36:46 It's Tiny Beautiful Things.

1:36:48 It's the Dear Sugar book by Cheryl Strayed, who wrote Wild. She was this anonymous advice columnist for years. And the book is like a um, what's it called? Compilation of like some of her best, but it tells the story. It's so beautiful. She's so incredible. The way she talks to people who are going through this traumatic, crazy shit is so real and human. And even if it's problems that you've never gone through, which most of them are, but you can relate to in some way. Um, it's really great advice and just a really great life lesson.

1:37:22 I it's, I can't recommend it enough. Tiny, beautiful things.

1:37:25 So tiny, beautiful things is another advice book. Yeah. It's dear. It's the dear sugar book. Oh, okay.

1:37:32 Yeah.

1:37:32 Is it red? It's orange. Yeah. Orange. Is that it? Do you have it?

1:37:37 Yes.

1:37:38 Okay. Yes. I didn't realize that was the title.

1:37:40 Yeah.

1:37:40 It's called Tiny Beautiful Things. It's the Dear Sugar book. By Cheryl Strayed. I've also read it.

1:37:45 It's amazing. It's so great. It's really smart. It's like advice in that way. Like I used to, like when I used to read Elle and I'd always read Dear E.

1:37:53 Jean.

1:37:54 Yeah.

1:37:54 And like sometimes her advice was great and really direct and, you know, badass. But then also sometimes it was like, I don't, I'm not with this.

1:38:02 Yeah. Like this take on life because everybody's different.

1:38:06 Sure.

1:38:06 Whatever.

1:38:06 Whatever. I'm with that shit that Dear Sugar talks about.

1:38:10 Well, she does what you do, which is takes every question as a chance to talk about herself and her life. But then somehow fucking turns it into this incredible way to relate to the person and then also empathize with them so incredibly hard. It's just, it's obviously this, the person who wrote it, dear sugar is just so, she's so, uh, she's so human and so empathetic and thoughtful. It's really a beautiful book and you'll, and you'll, you'll grow and heal from it.

1:38:40 You're so, I mean, yeah, that's a good one. That's my hooray. Fucking hooray. Fucking hooray. And that works. That title really works. Mine is a little weird, but I'm finding. I got this book on tape.

1:38:58 I just haven't been feeling good about myself in a just physically way.

1:39:05 Um, and just haven't been active.

1:39:07 And I know that like moving around immediately makes me feel better. And the less I do it, the less I want to do it. And it's just, you know, I've been complaining to you privately about this for quite some time.

1:39:18 Um, So there is... I just started looking randomly. It was like, what should I do? I need to do something right now. And I'm like, I'll listen to a podcast.

1:39:28 So first I found a podcast called Half Size Me, which is hosted by a woman who is doing that thing where she's standing in one leg of the pants she used to wear.

1:39:37 And she is. I don't have the.

1:39:41 Steven, will you find her name for me just so I can say it? But it's such a great podcast. She talks to people who basically listen to the podcast and lost weight. And they just talk about how they did it, what they did.

1:39:55 Like what's effective. And she is really positive, really like... I just love it.

1:40:01 There's so many ways to do that kind of talking incorrectly, like.

1:40:05 Fitness or like.

1:40:06 You know, what you need to do is you dig in or whatever, where it's like, but if you don't understand the feeling of having 40, 60, 80 extra pounds on your body, you just don't know. Like there are people that give advice that have no idea what they're fucking talking about in that specific way. So it's very cool.

1:40:23 It's a woman who did it. And then it's just talking to other people about how.

1:40:26 They did it. That's incredible. Because it's different for every single person. It's different for everybody.

1:40:31 And it's really helpful to just hear real people who are like, yeah, yeah, that's what I was like too.

1:40:35 And I did this.

1:40:36 Well, it's harder to say, it's harder to be like, I can't do that when someone's like, but I did it.

1:40:41 Yes, exactly.

1:40:43 Because when you're sitting at home alone, you're like, there's just no way and forget it.

1:40:46 It's the easiest thing to do.

1:40:47 But when you're listening to people who are like, yeah, I thought it was impossible, but here's what, here's what inspired me this day, this day.

1:40:54 How about then your, um, your goal is to be on that podcast. Exactly.

1:40:59 No, it really is because, oh, so wait, her name is Heather Robertson.

1:41:03 Thanks, Stephen. Cool. Heather Robertson. Half-size me. But actually, so that's how I found this book.

1:41:11 Okay.

1:41:11 Because she recommends that everybody that's going to get into that whole thing read.

1:41:17 This book first. Okay.

1:41:18 The book is called The Diet Fix. And it's by a doctor named Yoni Friedhoff. And he is, I think, I believe he's Canadian.

1:41:27 Mm-hmm.

1:41:28 It's basically the book you read when you have read every fucking diet book, you've tried every diet, and you now don't know what to do because you have too much information. And he calls people traumatized dieters. And the idea is you have to stop dieting. You have to stop restricting. You have to stop being mean to yourself and beating yourself up. And you have to start looking at all... All of it, like, how are you going to do it in the positive way?

1:41:53 Radical self-acceptance.

1:41:54 It is.

1:41:55 We were being sarcastic, but that's totally what it is.

1:41:57 And it just, like, I am the quickest at starting to listen to something and being like, bullshit and you're full of.

1:42:03 Bullshit and goodbye.

1:42:05 Well, you know what opening yourself up to and letting and trying it is just vulnerability.

1:42:10 Because I'm also reading fucking Daring Greatly again. Brene Brown. Fuck, Brene Brown. Brene Brown. This is the self-help corner. I mean, there's... Here's the thing.

1:42:19 When you actually find for, I've read a million self-help books. So like, that's why when I read Brene Brown's books, I was like, holy shit, this is real because it isn't the usual, you know, the patterns and you know, that talk and you know, the like, you've just got to believe in yourself or whatever. It's like, that's not going to help me get off the couch. What is like, how do I get inspired?

1:42:40 Right.

1:42:41 And the Diet Fix book unclenched something in my brain in the best way that just kind of made me go like, yeah, I'll just make little changes.

1:42:51 And just start. Awesome. Little changes. That's a big part of it, right?

1:42:56 Because you're always like, I'm going to stop doing this entire life thing.

1:43:00 I mean, how many times on the road was I like.

1:43:03 just, I'm, I would just turn to Georgia and be like, I'm just not going to eat macaroni and cheese at 11 o'clock anymore. And then Vince would be like, so we got to order dinner for after the show. And I'd be like, I'll go ahead and get some mac and cheese. Like, like it's a thing of when, I don't know, things are stressful, things, things are busy and you just want your guaranteed comfort. You just, it's like, if you don't know where else to get it, then you just go to the same well every time. And then that's how like, And he talks about this in that Diet Fix book. Where you've, if dieting worked, everybody would be thin and you beat yourself up for not being able to do a thing that no one can do.

1:43:45 Because even like I've gone on things where I don't eat sugar for two years, you can do that, but you can't sustain it because you're not living happily.

1:43:54 Then you can't continue to live that way. And so the.

1:43:58 Goal is to figure out how to live happily without abusing yourself with food.

1:44:03 Yeah. That's all. So it's, I mean, I hate to talk about stuff like this. I will say this. I am an, you, you be exactly the way you want to be. Just feel good.

1:44:14 Right.

1:44:15 I'm talking about this right now because I don't.

1:44:17 Yeah.

1:44:18 Not, not, not, it's not about you're at the wrong size. It's, I don't feel good in my body right now.

1:44:23 Interior, being uncomfortable and being uncomfortable makes me mad at myself and that I'm mean to myself. So like the idea that I'm listening to a thing that's going, yeah, the whole, it's not figure out a new way to be mean, you're mean to yourself. It's going, no, stop all clear all the meanness out and start over. And here's how you do it.

1:44:45 What's it called again, the book?

1:44:46 The Diet Fix by Yoni Friedhoff.

1:44:49 I love it.

1:44:51 And the only reason I knew about it is because Heather and her Half Size Me podcast were just a delight to listen to. It's like two ladies laughing about the way it's been and then the way.

1:45:02 It is now.

1:45:02 I want to listen. I love it. It's very cool. That's awesome. But also do what you want. Well, that was fucking hooray.

1:45:15 Okay, we're back. And this is the first time that fucking hooray is used, which is.

1:45:22 This is the show.

1:45:23 Exciting. It became huge.

1:45:24 The birthplace. I mean, it was so needed. Yeah, it was perfect.

1:45:29 Also, Tiny Beautiful Things, the book I was reading, was adapted into a Hulu limited series starring the great Katherine Hahn, which premiered in April of 2023.

1:45:38 I love Katherine Hahn so much.

1:45:40 I know.

1:45:40 She's so delightful.

1:45:42 Every time I see her, the things she's wearing... Makes me crazy with jealousy. And the way her hair looks makes me crazy with jealousy.

1:45:49 She's a cool girl.

1:45:50 Yeah, she's so cool. But it's like her look is it.

1:45:55 Yeah.

1:45:55 When I do that, it just looks like I let my hair air dry and I didn't put any product in it.

1:46:01 So irritating. Yeah.

1:46:02 We love you, Katherine Hahn.

1:46:04 We love you, Katherine Hahn. So originally, we titled this episode Civic Order. Not one of our best.

1:46:11 No.

1:46:11 No.

1:46:11 Not very funny. But if we were naming it today, maybe we could call it.

1:46:15 The Numbing Shit, for sure. Although we don't use curse words a lot in our titles, do we?

1:46:21 Not in a title, no. Don't Yawn See What Strangers is hilarious. So, really good advice.

1:46:28 We talked about Frank. Frank Salarno, of course.

1:46:31 And, of course, Rejuvenation Station.

1:46:33 That's the one.

1:46:33 Which is a listener-submitted segment. Yeah. That needs to be celebrated. That needs its own spinoff podcast. All right. Well, that's this week's episode of The Rewind.

1:46:46 Let's go say goodbye from 2018. Thanks, Sarah.

1:46:52 Right?

1:46:53 Now I really feel like saying fucking hooray.

1:46:55 Fucking hooray. Yeah. Cool. Thanks for listening, you guys. You know, you're the best. We love you. We love you. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Elvis, you want a cookie?

1:47:08 That sounded like a gold door opening.

1:47:12 Hey, are you okay?

1:47:15 Oh, okay.

1:47:15 Okay, fine. Okay.

1:47:18 Here we go.