Brett Yormark: Leadership, Legacy & His Big 12 Departure

0:00 Welcome to On the Line with Jim Pine. I'm Jim Pine. This episode is brought to you by PLS Aviation. Private Aviation. Perfectly executed. Now let's get on the line. Today on the line, we have a very successful sports businessman. Been a CEO of an NBA team, been a top executive at NASCAR, a CEO of Rock Nation.

0:22 Brett, welcome to the show.

0:24 Thank you, Jim. Thrilled to be here.

0:26 Yeah, no, great, great to see you again. I remember years ago we met probably 20, 30 years ago, I remember at a dinner and stuck with me. I remember you said it came up, we'll kind of talk about if you can sell things, you get picked up in limousines. I think that was kind of the one thing that was talking about.

0:41 Talk to me about that, because obviously you've been picked up in a lot of limousines because you're one of the best salesmen I've ever met and been around and seen from afar.

0:48 Well, I I don't know about that, but listen, I I I did come up through the commercial track, if you will. I had a passion and love for sales. That started at an early age, and I figured let me use that passion and energy for something that I love to get me to the place that I wanted to end up at. And, you know, I when I think about my journey and my career, I I look at it as a bit of a progression ladder.

1:10 You know, starting selling tickets with the New Jersey Nets back in 1988. Always aspired to be a CEO of an NBA team, and fortunately, and uh, you know, I was able to accomplish that, you know, amongst the journey. And that followed a very successful six years at NASCAR. And on the heels of being a CEO of the Brooklyn Nets for uh almost 16 years, we sold the franchise.

1:33 And, you know, I I was met with a couple of decisions, you know, what what do I do next? Like most people do. And I took a job for Rock Nation. Jay-Z and I became very dear friends when he was a minority owner at the at the Nets. And he'd always said to me, Hey, Brett, when the time is right, why don't you come over and partner with me at Rock Nation?

1:50 And I did that for a couple of years until I really sorted out, you know, where where I wanted to land long term. And, you know, four years ago, four plus years ago, I became the commissioner of the Big 12. And I've really enjoyed it. Throughout my journey, I saw college athletics as a place that I might want to end up in.

2:08 Obviously, we're in a changing landscape right now, but the time was right, and I found a situation that really fit my skill set because they were looking to reimagine and effectively reinvent the con the conference. And uh, it's been a great, great, great run and love the trajectory of where we are, and have applied my salesmanship, I guess you could say, uh, throughout my four plus years to not only stabilize the conference, but to build it and now grow it.

2:36 Absolutely no, he's done a great job and a high, highly qualified guy. In my experience in life and aft post playing sports and being in sports, by getting back in the sports business, they always told me, you know, the quickest way to the top is if you can bring revenue, revenue is important to any business, right?

2:52 So that's a good way for anybody. You know, we have people listening to the show, young executives, big executives. Revenue is important to any company, any organization. So hats off to that. You know, you bring up some of the stuff. I did some stuff preparing for the show. You know, your first day, I think, at the at the Nets you 1988, you might have sold a ten thousand dollar ticket deal, right?

3:10 I mean, uh tell me about that. I love I love the history. I love I love the dial for dollars and getting stuff done and you know the the hard stuff. We all see the the you know the the big stuff now, but what talk to me about then.

3:22 Well, you know, I it's it's interesting you just say that. So I uh I had a friend, and on my first day working for the Nets, I I received a cube, a pad, and a and effectively a pencil, and they said go to work. And on that first day, I called this friend of mine who was a great connector, and he said to me, Hey Brett, I have uh I've got a friend that might be interested in some front row seats at the Nets.

3:45 And I said, Great. So he introduced me to a gentleman named Danny Kahana. Danny died a couple of years ago, but he remained a friend, you know, from that point on. And uh I invited Danny down to the venue and I said, Hey Danny, I understand you're looking for some front row seats, and let me show you what we have available.

4:01 And we only had two front row seats at the time. And he said, Well, I'd like to take them. I said, but there's an if, Danny. I said, I'd I'd love to sell them to you. But I can't have you jump the line. You know, there was a waiting list for row A seats. I said, So look at the upper deck. I need you to buy ten of those seats for you to have the ability to buy the two in the front row.

4:20 And he did that. And he took those ten seats, which were inexpensive seats for the season, and he donated it, donated those seats to local charities throughout northern New Jersey. And he felt that would be a good way to incentivize some of the youth in the marketplace while he enjoyed the front row seats.

4:38 So that was my first sale in the business of sports. And you know what? It gave me a lot of confidence, it gave me some momentum that, hey, I could do this thing. And you know, this is the right place for me to start my career. So I was forever indebted to Danny. And and in fact, when I was the CEO, and as long as he held those seats, I would greet him at every game, shake his hand, and thank him for the opportunity because he effectively gave me the confidence to do what I do every day.

5:05 And it's you know, it doesn't happen that often where you you know you take a new job and you're able to score a legitimate hit your first day, and I was able to do that thanks to him.

5:15 Yeah, it's unbelievable. I like love the story, love that. And you know, back in the day you started ticket sales, which I'm familiar with that in sports and stuff. You know, that is for people that don't know that that's a very tough job. You're you're dialing the phone, you're getting rejected, you're just picking it up, putting it down, trying to get to get in touch with people to sell tickets.

5:32 Very transactional. I guess what do you remember from those days and that what motivated you then to be able to make those calls? Because a lot of people can't handle the rejection, right? I mean, that that builds, like you said, yeah, you gotta hit your first day, the confidence. But what talk to me about that?

5:47 What how does that affect you even today with stuff you do?

5:50 Well, I mean, listen, I think in life you gotta be resilient. And uh, and I think in the sales business, you're gonna hear no's a lot more than you hear yeses. And you know, I was a resilient young man at the time, I still am, and you know, for I heard a lot of no's, but you you work hard in order to get that yes.

6:06 And when you do, you feel like you've accomplished something. And uh I knew it was a numbers game. You know, the more I put out there, the the better chance I have of closing something. So it was a great training ground for me, you know, the ticket side of the business, and taught me a lot of different things, you know, from a from a sales perspective.

6:23 It taught me about being in the relationship business, you know, even going back to my first sale. That came through a relationship. And uh, you know, I lean back on those moments even now. Uh, and it was a terrific proving ground for me and it and really a a great place for me to start my career.

6:40 Yeah, and people people may and may not know you. Uh you have an identical twin brother, right? Who's also very successful executive, and uh he's still a rock nation, I believe. And you know, talk to me about that. I I know you I read you your mother, single mother raised you guys. You know, she she was a working person, I'm sure.

6:57 What did you learn from her? The grit, the toughness. You know, what you talk to me about that, because you two brothers, I'm sure, twins, you got each other's back, but you're probably competitive. Talk to me about what your brothers meant to you and and kind of through the you guys, your careers together.

7:09 Well, starting with my mom, I mean, she was a great example being a single mom for my brother and I. She effectively was a wallpaper sales girl. She, you know, supported us by selling wallpaper at a low local paint store until she got an opportunity to open up her own design firm. And my brother and I saw the the hard work and the early morning she would leave and come back late at night, and she had a dream and she wanted to be great and you know at at what she did professionally, and and she was that and more.

7:38 Supported my my brother and I and my sister, but she set a wonderful example. And you know, the I guess the primary example was what you put in is what you get out of life. And she worked hard, she was tireless in in wanting to be great every day. My brother and I on Saturdays we used to go to her her shop and watch her do her thing.

7:58 I mean, it was just a wonderful example. And my mother remains very close with me and my sister and my brother, and and she she's just a tremendous inspiration for us, even now, you know, based on the example she set for us.

8:12 Absolutely. And you went to Indiana, right? You gotta be happy University of Indiana or national champion football.

8:17 Yeah, went to IU and you know, applied to a lot of Big Ten schools. My mom went to Michigan and she uh dated someone at IU while she was there. So when I started applying to different schools, she kind of came to me and said, Hey, you know, what about Indiana? You know, I I told her I wanted to go to the Midwest, uh, get away from the Northeast for a bit.

8:36 And, you know, as soon as I visited the campus, I realized, boy, this is a place I want to call home for four years, and it was a great four years, in fact. Uh my daughter ended up going to Indiana also. I brought her on a on a trip when she was looking at schools, and no different than her dad. She fell in love with the campus and had four great years there.

8:55 Uh so I I I looked back on my four years at at Indiana with with much love and respect and wouldn't do it any differently.

9:03 Absolutely. I read too that uh Bobby Knight. You might have took a class from him, he was the legendary coach. I did.

9:08 I did it. I had a class at it with Bobby Knight. It was a very interesting class. You know, when I got to campus, I befriended, you know, one of the assistant coaches on Knight's staff and and asked him if I could get into the coaching and basketball class. So I was able to get in, and uh it was amazing.

9:26 You know, Coach Knight used to teach the first half of the class, and then the second half of the class, you used to go on the court at assembly field, and the coaches would take you through a bit of a simulated practice. Many of those students that were in the class aspired to be coaches, and uh it was a wonderful, wonderful experience, and you were graded on two things attendance and the notebook.

9:47 And then at the end of the class, the term, you met with Coach Knight, where you reviewed your notebook with him, and you had a chance just to ask, you know, questions, etc. And I look back on that now, it was a special moment. Of course, after Indiana, you went to Texas Tech, and then of you know, obviously, as the commissioner of the Big 12, I have Texas Tech in a in my conference.

10:09 So it it's it's it's it's interesting how things work out. And recently I got a note from his son Pat Knight and a picture of Coach Knight, in fact, uh, which was very nice of him. So a great, great experience with Coach Knight, great memories, and really enjoyed my time at Indiana.

10:26 Yeah, yeah, and you switching gears, basketball heavy in your background. You you we talked about the Nets, I think, three times. And then you also, you know, when NASCAR, right? The car racing. You you you were brought into, I think you started up the whole New York office, NASCAR and you know, mostly Southeast uh sport, right?

10:43 Go to New York, we need you great perfect guy for that. You build that up, and you guys you guys end up doing the team the Next L deal, right? A big one of the biggest sponsorships ever at the time, right? 750 million bucks. I mean, what back then that's when that was a lot of money. Today, today it's just uh a deal.

10:58 But uh talk to me about that. I mean, NASCAR was a different sport, different animal, great time to be there. You guys built it up, did deals like that. Talk to me about your time at NASCAR.

11:08 NASCAR was great. You know, I was at the Nets and going back to this progression ladder that I've always had, I was able to develop the appropriate skill sets throughout my journey. You know, I again I, you know, as I said earlier, I started with the Nets, then I went to a place called Katz Communications, I then went to the Detroit Pistons, and then returned to the Nets as vice president of sales.

11:29 The one thing I didn't have was experience selling nationally. And I felt by joining a league like NASCAR that would afford me the opportunity to develop relationships more nationally than locally or regionally. And I I met this guy, his name was George Pine, and uh I remember like it was yesterday, we we we met, we we had a good interview, and he said, Brett, I I I really like your background, I like your approach.

11:53 I'd I'd love to hire you now, but you know, you're the you're the first guy I've met. So I said to George at the time, I said, George, go and do your due diligence, go and meet as many people as you need, and if it makes sense at the right time, call me. And if you feel if you still feel the same way, we'll get together, we'll see what we can do.

12:10 And he called me and he said, Hey Brett, despite meeting a lot of different people, I'd like you to join the team. And you know, George was terrific and a wonderful salesman also. And although NASCAR was foreign to me and I knew very little about motorsports, the night before I interviewed for that job, I read a book.

12:28 It was a pretty quick read. It was called The NASCAR Way, and I fell in love, literally fell in love with the business model. So, despite the fact that I didn't know much about NASCAR, I like how I liked how it was built and how they were running it and where I could create value. And you're right, you know, I I effectively opened up the New York office, which was their sponsorship sales arm for the league.

12:50 And we we had a great moment there, which I guess effectively was crowned with the Next L Cup deal, rebranding Winston Cup to Next L Cup. And you're right, at the time, in total, it was about a $750 million deal, $75 million a year for 10 years, and uh it really gave me a platform to then move on to that that next opportunity, which ultimately was becoming the CEO of the Nets.

13:15 Yeah, absolutely. And I I've seen I think when you get to the Big 12, same thing. You opened up a commercial office, which the conferences hadn't really done. I so in my past I was at IMG in between my careers, and I sold E SEC, right? If I was the head of sponsorship sales for the SEC, sold a bunch of partners, but they were outsourced.

13:31 We were with IMG, right? So you're in-house, right? I mean, do you guys pretty much you set up a team that you're doing, which is I think is amazing and great. You know, no one better to lead that than you, obviously. But to talk to me about that, like setting up the sales team for the conference, the Big Twelve, and you know, I know the dynamic of the Big Twelve.

13:48 You got there, and then Texas Oklahoma left. You kind of you you pulled it together, you added four more teams, and you kind of you everyone was saying, Hey, Texas, Oklahoma Gonna leave, what's gonna happen? Well, you've done those you've kept them going, kept the whole conference going, increasing revenues, which is important in today's world.

14:03 But talking about setting up that team and how important that was, and it's it's uh with with who you are and your history, obviously that made sense.

14:10 Yeah, well, so when I took the Big Twelve job, I I saw a conference that had big, you know, great bones, but needed to be reimagined and reinvented, and most importantly, probably contemporized. Um, you're absolutely right. Texas and Oklahoma had announced that they were leaving before I took the job.

14:25 A lot of people said, hey Brett, you're you're walking into a bit of a challenge there. You know, two huge brands leaving the conference. So I got here and I kind of looked at it in three different phases. Let's stabilize, let's build, and then let's grow. And we stabilized by going into the market early on and got a very substantial TV deal.

14:44 It was a renewal with ESPN and Fox. That gave us the foundation to start building this thing. When I started to build it, I realized there were certain parts of the business that were not currently under the Big 12 conference operations. A part of that, a big part of that was revenue. They had outsourced it for close to 27 years.

15:05 I decided without question we needed to control our revenue at the conference. So we brought that in-house, in addition to marketing and legal and finance and a couple of other things. But being a commercial guy, I've I've I've focused quite a bit on the commercial side of the business. We built out a team and uh we've been able to grow our commercial business exponentially now that we control it and it's in-house.

15:27 And uh it was probably one of the best things we did early on, because as you know better than most, you know, schools need to be well resourced if they're gonna compete at the highest levels. And our job at the conference is to create as much value as we can for our institutions, which we're working really hard at.

15:43 So it was the right move at the right time, and we're gonna continue to build our our commercial business as we move forward.

15:49 Sure, absolutely. One one thing I always talk to on the show, we got listeners to, you know, helping people with advice, transition, right? We all, you know, as a former NFL player, I I see guys struggle with transitioning from playing to whatever's next. You know, business, what's next? You you've done you've done a great job of reinventing yourself, transitioning, you know, CEO of the basketball, NASCAR, doing things, rock nation to where you're at now.

16:12 What's some advice, and how do you do what do you tell yourself or how do you coach yourself how to transition if you're going from one thing to the next? And obviously the Big Twelves have been in transition, right? It's the whole college force has been transitioning. But what are some of the key elements that you tell yourself?

16:27 Well, for me personally, you know, and and I often tell young people this you you gotta know who you are, okay? And you gotta have self-awareness. And for me, where I've been able to make my mark, regardless of where I've been, and you said it earlier, revenue matters. And in every situation I've been in, they needed to drive value, drive revenue.

16:47 And, you know, that at the core, you know, that that's a major skill set for me. I understand that language, I understand that business, and I was able to apply it, whether it was at NASCAR, you know, the Nets, Rock Nation, or for that matter, here at the Big 12. And effectively, they needed my skill set.

17:05 So when I transition into you know new environments, you know, candidly, it's about transferring my skill set, you know, to those opportunities and and having the foresight to realize whether or not that's the right fit or not. For me, every place I've gone to, I've been able to transfer my skill set to create value in those situations.

17:26 And, you know, luckily it's worked out accordingly. But, you know, I I've been very fortunate that every situation I've walked into needed the skill sets that I was bringing. And you know, I I think it speaks for itself.

17:40 Absolutely. And revenue, like I said, too. I I've lived it too, it's so important. If you can do that, you're a special guy, and that that's important to any organization, right? Nothing happened until someone sells something, nothing happens. Some of the other stuff, too. Someone's got to sell some things and do some things.

17:53 So you know, Rock Nation kind of different you know, Jay-Z's there, uh, obviously an iconic mu musician and businessman. He's married to Beyonce. Talk to him about working with him because I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't say, hey, Brett, you're a you you match up with Jay-Z. I mean, right off the top.

18:08 I mean, I think talk to me about his strengths, what he does, what you might have learned of being around him and running his organization.

18:14 Well, Jay, Jay's a tastemaker. You know, he he has an incredible pulse on the consumer, on markets, on where things are going. And, you know, my three years there, you know, was was incredible. It was like going to school every day, you know, learning from him and his colleagues, learned a lot about culture.

18:34 Okay, because there's no one that connects me to culture better than Rock Nation and Jay-Z specifically. And uh, so I learned a lot, and and I took a lot of that and and transferred it here, you know, to the conference. I think I'm a better commissioner for the Big 12 because of the experience at Rock Nation.

18:51 You know, when I got here, I I was very intentional about where I wanted to take the brand and how I wanted to connect to culture and and get on the consciousness of current and future student athletes. And, you know, I learned a lot about how to connect to culture through my time at Rock Nation and the importance of music and telling your story candidly.

19:13 And we've applied a lot of that to this environment, and and it's resonated. And in some respects, it it credentialized me, you know, with the student athletes. You know, I I remember when I took the job, I did a listening and learning tour. I went to every campus in my first two weeks. And so many of the student athletes that I interfaced with wanted to understand my background.

19:33 They weren't really focused on NASCAR or even the Brooklyn Nets. They were always focused on tell us about Rock Nation, tell us about Jay-Z. And they would ask me, Do you know Megan the Stallion? You know, they they would they would throw all these artist names out there, and and I was able to respond accordingly.

19:50 Yes, I know them, and blah, blah, blah, and my experiences, and it credentialized me, you know, to to to a younger demographic, which candidly for me as as the commissioner was important. So that experience was very helpful as I transitioned into this job.

20:04 Absolutely. No, uh great stuff there, I think. And you know, the the Big 12 is in great position because of you, you there, you get the Big Ten, the SEC, the ACC's over there. What do you see? I mean, I know that the Wright Steel comes up in 30, I believe, and and that's another big thing. You know, who knows what the future holds, right?

20:22 I think there's a stuff going on in Capitol Hill with the government, with the new stuff to get those some rules and stuff, which college sports definitely needs, in my opinion. But what you what do you see? I mean, I I think the college playoff might go what to 16, 24 teams. You know, I think you've spoken about that.

20:37 You'd you'd like more access, is what you you've said. Yeah. I I agree with that. So talk to me about it.

20:42 I mean, listen, there's it's interesting, Jim. You know, I I often tell people I have two jobs. I have the job as the commissioner of the Big 12, and how do I create value for my 16 institutions? And then it's also, you know, the job of how do I partner with my P4 commissioner colleagues in in order to create a sustainable model for collegiate athletics at the highest levels.

21:03 I control a lot more when it's just about the Big 12 than I do when I get in a room with other commissioners candidly, but there's a lot of mutual respect, and there are a lot of big issues we're dealing with, and you laid them out. You know, we're spending a lot of time on the hill to figure out can we get a bill passed?

21:19 And, you know, working daily on that. And in fact, I've spent more time on the hill over the last six months than I have throughout my career. But, you know, this Protect College Sports Act is something that I think is it's progress over perfection, but it does deliver some of the core principles we need to have a sustainable model.

21:39 And there's a lot in the Protect College Sports Act to like. But in particular, what I like, it limits the movement for student athletes because I think the portal right now, and I like to call it unlimited free agency, is not sustainable. So effectively, it it gives every student athlete, you know, one chance to transfer.

21:58 Okay. And I think that's That's good for the for the future model of collegiate athletics. And if we're able to get this bill passed, I think it's gonna put a lot of guardrails in place that we need candidly. When you think about the CFP, yes, you're right. You know, from a conference perspective, I would like more access.

22:16 I think that's critically important. If we had a 24 team format last year, we'd had five schools in the CFP, which would be terrific for us. Whether that happens or not, I don't know. We're doing our appropriate due diligence. The economics have to be there. You know, one of the things about going to 24 is you probably have to give up your champ game.

22:35 And our champ game for us at the Big 12 is a meaningful moment. I like to call it our tent-pole event. And to give that up, we got to receive something. It's like a transaction, it's a trade. So I gotta know what I'm gonna sign up for if I'm gonna give up something that's that meaningful. But we're working hard, the management committee, all the FBS commissioners, plus Pete from Notre Dame, and we'll see where we land over the next couple of months.

22:58 But certainly that's something that, you know, we're we're we're trying to figure out as well.

23:03 Yeah, it's hard. I mean, you guys, you I think 85,000 people at your championship game last year in in Dallas or big big deal. I mean, to give that up to what to get what, you you better have some they better get some.

23:14 I mean, it was a it's a big moment. Last year was a great, I mean, we set an all-time record for a conference championship football game, you know, almost 86,000, did a big number on ABC. Uh, I mean, it it's a big moment for us. And if you're gonna give that up, you gotta know what you're gonna get in return, and that's what we're trying to figure out now.

23:32 Yeah, no, absolutely. And I I I got a son that's uh getting recruited different places, I've taken him different places Big Ten schools and stuff to ACC, SEC, Big Twelve. But it it's amazing to me. You go to some of these campuses, there's kids driving Lamborghinis, to doing stuff. It's just oh, it's all out of whack with the money they're making and stuff, and it you know, spending it now.

23:50 And it's a problem. I think people should have to. This is just my opinion. I'm not is that you know, even pro players. I have a ton of guys I played with who they don't have any money left from playing as a pros in their twenties. Now you're gonna give these kids at 18 the same type of thing early money, they're not gonna have it at the end.

24:07 They should the money should be put away in some sort of annuity or something they could touch later on when they're gonna do that.

24:12 Yeah, no, listen, I I couldn't agree more. You know, we we we as a conference are advocating for our schools, and many of them are working with our student athletes. In fact, all of them are on financial literacy and understanding, you know, when you're when you're making those sums of dollars, how to save and think about your future.

24:28 All critically in important as part of the education process. But it it's a new day. And and by the way, I've been a big advocate of Red Share. You know, I I've always said that if you're part of the value equation, you sh deserve to be rewarded. So student athletes deserve to be rewarded for sure. We just need to put some guardrails around the system.

24:46 So we're not, you know, in a in a in a period of chaos, which we are now. And we do need to change the unlimited free agency dynamic that exists, getting back to the portal. I I'm an advocate of student athletes realizing they might be not in the right place and having the ability to move to a different campus.

25:04 But what you're seeing now is that there's movement every year. And in some respects, they're being misguided by some of the agents out there. Uh and there's great agents out there, don't get me wrong, but there are also other agents that are looking at it from their own personal lens on what's best for them versus the student athlete.

25:22 So we got to put some restrictions around that too. And candidly, that's addressed in the bill.

25:27 It's really out of whack, too, because I have a son that's a quarterback, and it's interesting how the recruiter ain't got a nephew that's a quarterback, played at Notre Dame stuff. But it's affecting recruiting. What the big schools are doing now, they're not recruiting kids as hard. They might recruit the top ten guys, but that with the attitude now is like, hey, if you we we don't need to get you right now.

25:47 If you come to go somewhere and you play and you're good, we'll come get you later. We'll come buy you, right? So it's all out of whack, like there's no, and then that what that affects is nobody's getting a really a degree. They go into four or five schools and it's a problem, you know.

26:01 Well, that's a very interesting point there too, Jim, because you know, the when every time you transfer, you lose credits, and you're that further away from graduating. And, you know, when I got here, one of the things that I really enjoyed and I learned very early on is that, you know, despite how big college athletics has become, it's a very purpose-driven industry.

26:23 And at the core, it's the student athlete, and it's the ability to work with student athletes so that they become become the best version of themselves. Being the best version of themselves, a big part of that is graduating and being prepared for that next stage of their lives. And right now, that's being compromised every time you go in the portal.

26:41 And by the way, there's a lot of student athletes that go in the portal that don't come out, that don't find a home. So there's a lot to unpack here. Um, but I can tell you that we're all spending a lot of time to get to the right place, and I hope we can do that sooner than later.

26:56 And not one of your schools. Again, I tell this because I'm concerned for people. It's like University of Florida. I took my son up there, and they they take us in the academic thing. They say, We have 150 tutors for the football team. I said, 150 tutors? I said, There's a hundred players, maybe. Like, well, we stand beside you.

27:12 And I said, Okay, they walk me further on the tour, like 95% of the classes are online. And I then I was like, Oh, the girl's showing us around because yeah, the football team goes to class once a week. So I no one's going to class, they're getting a degree, not getting an education. And that's kind of a problem, I think.

27:27 Obviously, that's it. Florida, other places, but unbelievable. So, Brett, let me ask you some questions too. What's the best advice you probably ever got? We got listeners, I like asking guys this through your career, you've been very successful everywhere you've been, one of the top selling guys ever.

27:42 What's some of the best advice you ever got?

27:46 You know, it it's interesting. I I I've been around a lot of great entrepreneurs, a lot of C-suite executives, and there's, you know, so much that I've taken away given, you know, the exposure I've had. And I have a whiteboard in my office where I take some of the sayings that some of these incredible people have passed on to me.

28:06 You know, we'll start with Jay-Z. Greatness is a process. Okay. I think about that all the time. You know, Mike Rapoli, I don't know if you know Mike Rapoli. You know, he was the founder of Body Armor, Vitamin Water, a bunch of other great brands. He's now the owner of Noble. And he said to me once, if you're not making mistakes, you're not working hard enough.

28:28 Okay. Another great one. I was told by, you know, my mentor, a guy by the name of Jim Donald. Jim, I met early on in my career when I was a ticket seller at the Nets, he was the CEO of Pathmark Supermarkets, went on to be CEO of Starbucks. He also was the C CEO of Extended Stay, Albertsons. I mean, just an incredible executive.

28:52 Brad. Be great every day. Be great every day. Okay. Something that's also on my board. But you know, talking about Jim, who's been my mentor, you know, aside from saying that, you know, it's it's about being humble. It's about showing great empathy for the people around you. But one of the things that Jim didn't say to me but did is he led by example.

29:13 And that's what I try to do as a leader every day. Lead by example. Don't ask anyone to do anything you're not willing to do yourself. And uh that to me is something that really has resonated since the beginning of my career, leading by example. And uh and I try to do that even today.

29:29 Absolutely. No, and I I know white wife and kids, I guess ten 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, when your name comes up, could be your grandkids, people that worked at the Big Twelve with you. What do you want them to say? Hey, Brett, you're Mark.

29:42 He made a difference. He made a difference. You know, I I try to do that in in every place I've been. You know, I the goal is to always leave a place better than when when you arrived. And thankfully for me, I've been fortunate to work with great people where I can say that. You know, I I got to I've been I worked for the Nets a couple of times, every time I left, I look back on it now, you know, I left them in a better place than when I arrived.

30:05 You know, same with NASCAR and you know, and working very closely with with your brother. You know, I I look back into uh, you know, on my four years here and and what we inherited and what my colleagues and I have been able to accomplish. You know, we certainly, whenever that moment is, we'll leave the Big 12 in a better place than when we got here, and hopefully I'll have a a much longer tenure here.

30:26 I love the job, I and I enjoy working with all 16 schools, but you know, I think in life you want to really leave places in a better, better situation than when you arrived. So when people look back on my career, you know, and and and listen, you know, nothing's perfect, no career's perfect, but I want the common denominator for you know, uh despite where I've been, to be that he made a difference and that he left that place better than when he arrived.

30:51 Absolutely, you know you have, and I I know I've seen you through several of your stops, and you have you're you're a legend in the sales business, and uh, congratulations on all that success. And you're doing great things for the Big Twelve, and they owe you, in my opinion, it's Jim's opinion, a lot for what you've done and how the leadership you've driven.

31:07 The conference that was kind of it was it could have struggled and be in a bet worse place, and you put put it in a great place, and there's a bright future there. So, really thank you for being on the show, and we'll have you on again. And listen, I appreciate it.

31:18 And Jim, listen, on behalf of my 16 institutions, make sure your son is looking hard at a Big 12 school.

31:26 That's right. We are, we are absolutely appreciated. What year is he? He's a 28, 28 quarterback, Tampa, Florida. He's three and oh, he's uh he's done well. He's one of those four-row kids. The Ivy League schools are all on him, and he's doing great. Great kid.

31:40 Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much. So good to join you, and I hope to see you soon, okay?

31:45 Absolutely. Take care, Brett. See you. Bye-bye.