Roger Goodell: Leading the NFL, Overcoming Adversity & the Future of Football

0:00 Welcome to On the Line with Jim Pine. I'm Jim Pine. This episode is brought to you by PLS Aviation. Private Aviation perfectly executed. Now let's get on the line. Today on the line we have the a man that means no introduction, the most powerful man in sports, great guy, head of the NFL, a long history, very successful with the NFL, been with the NFL a long time.

0:23 Welcome to the show, uh, Commissioner Roger Goodell.

0:25 Thank you, Jim. Glad to be with you.

0:28 Good to have you. Good to have you. I know you're up in New York. I really appreciate the time. And you know, Roger, in this show, I like to just talk to people, kind of get keep it light, keep it, you know, leadership, business, that type of stuff. People listening can kind of get some nuggets from this stuff.

0:42 So I know you grew up in DC. You grew up, you were born in New York. DC, your dad was in politics. Correct. You grew up there for part of it. So and then you ended up in New York in college and stuff. So the question I have is you know, I I researched and listened to a lot of your past interviews and preparing for the show.

1:00 So I think it's great. Your dad was in politics. What did you you know? My dad, uh as we talked before, played football and was in sales and business, man. So my dad taught me how to play football and how to sell things, right? So that's kind of I want and I wanted to be my dad. So I know you you your mom was a nurse, right?

1:18 So my mom was a school teacher. So I I look at that. My mom was a great listener, so I think my dad was a hard-charging guy, could listen, which was good. But so your dad, politics, what is what are some of the key things you learn by watching your dad? You know, you grow up we all grow up as a man, you kind of look at your dad as somebody you aspire to be and learn from.

1:35 I guess what what did you learn from him that you you you still do today, probably?

1:39 Yeah, a lot. Uh I I think really uh leading by principle, probably mostly, you know, the my dad was uh was a good listener himself, by the way, um, and spent a lot of time and he was in Congress for nine years and then replaced Bobby Kenny when he's assassinated in 68 and filled out his term, uh lost the election.

1:57 But the story behind that's interesting because it was probably the most principled lesson that I learned in my life, but also one that I I still it's sort of the the true North, right? And he sat, I'm one of five boys, and uh we he sat us all down with my mom and said, I'm gonna s I'm gonna introduce legislation to end the Vietnam War.

2:15 He was a Republican. The president at the time was Nixon, and uh he was obviously a Republican with Square Agnew as the vice president. And he said, They're gonna attack me and I'll probably lose the election, uh, but I believe in it. I think it's the right thing to do for the country, and uh it'll probably be the end of my political career.

2:32 And I knowing how much that meant to him, meaning his public service years of being in Congress, he loved it. To make that kind of a choice, knowing that it would likely be the end of it, uh, because he believed in it, is something that uh stayed with me and probably drives me more than anything else in watching my dad, because he lived it.

2:51 And I try to I try to live by that same type of uh North Star, which is try to do the right thing.

2:57 Yeah, absolutely. No, that's that's great stuff, that's powerful. And and your mom being a nurse, right? I I I can five boys, but it must have been great to be a nurse with five boys in that. Well you sort of know a little bit.

3:07 You know a little bit about that, Jim. But you know, we have five boys in seven years, too. Uh so it was let's just say it was a rough household. But again, you know about that, and uh you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't give back a minute, although there were probably plenty of times when I thought I I did want to give it back.

3:23 But you know, we're all very close, not just in age, but we're different, but we all have a you know a respect for one another. And uh the people we are, we're all a little bit different, but we come from the same place, which is our parents, who uh we were very blessed to have two wonderful parents.

3:38 Unfortunately lost them both way too early in life. My mom was 53 and my dad was 60. And my mom couldn't continue her her uh nursing career, both with my dad's career and also five boys, but I've always had a fondness for for nurses. I recognize the importance of them in medical care. But I also know how much it meant to my mom being in that uh profession.

3:59 Yeah, i it made sense to me knowing you for years now, just you know, your dad's a a politician, your mom's a nurse, it's just those those talents and characteristics. I see that in you now realizing that, putting that together, and that's great. That's I think with your role, right? I mean, you you have one of the hardest jobs in sport, you you have 32 owners of of the teams, and you have the players, you have a lot of constituents, sponsors, partners, a lot of people you gotta deal with, talk to.

4:24 You know, I would think politics and stuff is watching your dad perform and and his roles that he was doing, probably whether you know what it didn't today helps you with what you do because that's those transferable skills, I think, definitely makes sense that why you're so successful.

4:40 Listen, I did to your point though, my parents were clearly the most influential people in my life, even in the short time they were in my life. Because they both had such incredible strengths. My dad, to your point, I'm sure I got a lot of my understanding of politics. Uh my you know, this job is not without politics.

4:59 When I when I do something here in the NFL, I've got to get 24 or 32 owners to agree to it when they're big matters. And you have to know how to do that, right? That's that's politics uh at its core. My mom was just an incredible people person. Again, a a really important element of this job is relationships, building on those relationships, being willing to be forthright and honest with others, but trying to be fair ultimately.

5:25 And I I you know, I I think we we got those things from our parents, and I I believe there are things that I look to every day. Also, I and I tell you a lot of this, I I I think the things I learned playing football, you know this too. Your career was longer than mine, but at the end of the day, what we learn in football guides us in our life too.

5:42 We we we put those those same principles and values and and talents we learned in football to our life skills.

5:50 Yeah, absolutely. No, I every day working with a team, working with people, motivating, self-starting, all that stuff that I learned in football get keeps me going today, and I uh you're right, a hundred percent right. You know, I I I watched one of your uh podcasts or interview before you you were a bartender, bouncer uh in college.

6:05 You said that was one of your funner jobs, right? You starting off, you did a lot of di different things. You you were the bouncer by it because you were the only guy that could do it, right?

6:13 Well, it was sort of a one-man show, yeah. Uh but he you know the I I often say uh yes, it was one of the funner jobs I had, but it was also one of the I would say one of the the jobs that I had, and remember as a career, I've really only had two jobs, right? When I got out of college, I went into the steel industry for a year in a management training program.

6:31 But, you know, I had lots of odd jobs from construction to the newspaper guy to, yeah. I mean, we I I did a lot of different things. But bartender taught me a lot. Um, and again, it goes back to those relationships and how to deal with people in certain circumstances. There were a lot of unique things as I was growing up in that that bar going through college where you have unique circumstances.

6:52 You gotta deal with people in very difficult circumstances. Sometimes they're they're off the off the deep end drunk or they just have a different issue. And you gotta know how to diffuse those situations. You gotta deal with them, you gotta try to play bouncer and bartender and uh and service your customers at the same time.

7:10 It was a it was a it was a trick, but I I wouldn't give that back either. I was I was really fortunate to have those years.

7:16 Yeah, absolutely. And I and the famous stories too, I love this stuff. You know, I I I think your wife or you saw you one of your superpowers determination, right? You were very determined and love the story of you wrote 40 letters at least to the NFL. 53, yeah. 53. 53. Okay. Someone I read they read it wrong, right?

7:34 So 53 letters. So you wrote those. That that's that's great.

7:38 And like I love because 53 rejections, too, just to be clear. So you you you have to you you you know, yeah, the rejection's part of life, right? I mean, I think a lot of times people are just trying to, do you really want to do something? How are you gonna stand out, and how are you gonna pursue something that you want to pursue?

7:56 And that that's what I was gonna ask, because I when I got out of plane, I wanted to get a coach and I wrote letters, and I remember two, I had two opportunities. Jack Del Rio said, hey, you can be a volunteer assistant in a weight room. I said, okay. And then if it was uh a GA in college, I so you remember, but everyone else said no, no thanks, whatever.

8:13 Do you remember any of the dialogues, any of the feedback you got? It was it all no?

8:17 Yeah, what's the matter? There wasn't much dialogue, Jim. Most of it was a letter back saying, if I even got one. Thank you for your interest. Uh, unfortunately, we don't have any openings right now. Keep us posted. And and uh, you know, I just had to get through to somebody, and eventually Pete Rosell's right-hand guy, who is the executive director, is a guy named Don Weiss, who is just when I when I think of a gentleman, I think of him.

8:39 But he he finally responded to one of my letters and then took one of my calls and he said, If you're ever in New York, give us a call and come on by. And and I I was in Pittsburgh at the time. And I said, Well, I I happened to be in New York, so it was a little white lie. And he said, Well, okay, then why don't you come by tomorrow at 8 o'clock?

8:57 And so I had to jump in my little Honda Civic and drive all night to get there. But you you have to find those opportunities to sort of stand out and show that determination or that willingness to set yourself apart from just being a fan who says, Yeah, sure, I'd love to work for the NFL. I I as I say we have over 200 million fans in the United States, you've got to set yourself apart, right?

9:20 And that's what I was hoping to do, is just get my foot in the door. And then at that point, it's like anything else, right? It's on performance.

9:28 Right, no, absolutely. Amazing stuff. I love the tenacity to do it. And you you were there a long time, you're in your 21st year, I believe, as a commissioner. There like 24 years before that. You you worked with uh Pete Roselle, you mentioned Paul Tagabu, right? So two great legendary, you're the third of the commissioners.

9:45 So, what did you see and learn from each one of those guys that you saw? What was their superpowers looking at looking back on them now?

9:52 Wow. You know, they they were both so talented, and most importantly, uh quite different, but the right people at the right time in our growth uh as a league. And I think that's so important to keep in mind. You know, people say, well, you know, who's the greatest commissioner? Well, I always admired Pete when I was a kid.

10:08 That's what I I studied. I I saw how he made the tough decisions to build the league, whether it was the merger or whether it was sharing revenue the way it is. Things that today I'm not sure we could do, Jim. He he did that, he led that, he made that happen. Uh he was a consummate professional, handled the media uh with smoothness that I I could only admire, and just I was just flabbergasted by it.

10:32 Paul was the smartest guy in the room. Paul was uh Tagabu was just brilliant, and he's a great lawyer, but he he knew how to like to find solutions to difficult problems. And I just learned that tenacity of identify the problem, figure it out, and work together. And so he gave me a lot of great opportunities that I wouldn't be sitting in this chair without either one of them because you know, maybe they both saw something in me, maybe they both gave me those opportunities.

10:58 I think both are true, and I'm here because of them, and I think about them every day. I think about not what they would do so much, but am I am I doing things that would make them proud? Because they wouldn't want me to do, you know, people always say you got big shoes to fill or something. I my my argument to that is always I'm not I'm not filling somebody else's shoes.

11:17 I'm walking in my own shoes, and I they would want me to, and I've got to make decisions that I think are in the right, the best interest of the NFL today and tomorrow. But hopefully, you know, you make them proud too.

11:29 Yeah, absolutely. I I had the pleasure of meeting Paul Tagabu when I was playing back in the day. And he built realize how tall he was. He's a big man. You're talking about big shoes. He was a basketball player of George now. He did have some big shoes, probably, but smart lawyer guy.

11:44 Yes, and he uh he was uh you know, he's a really good athlete himself. Uh so he had he he had that competitiveness in him that was uh it was it was really quite stark.

11:55 Yeah, no, an impressive guy. He commanded the room. I remember him coming down in Tampa when I was playing in the small old facility, and he he just he spoke to the team and I was like in awe because you know he's the commissioner of the NFL. It was a great deal. I guess so. Roger, adversity. I always ask people on the thing.

12:12 We all deal with adversity. We have it kind of we've had it in our life, it's coming at some point. How do you process it? How do you deal with it? Is there what do you do when adversity's coming? You know, you dealt with COVID, you you know, as far as the league, all these different things that could be coming, coming, how do you handle adversity personally, whether it be in your personal life or the business, or just how do you handle that?

12:33 You know, I I actually thrive on it. I I I love the challenge of it. I think it's the only time in life that you really grow. You really learn, uh, you you learn who you are, but you also learn from the experiences. And I think it's one of the things that, as you say, you're going to face and probably multiple times in life.

12:52 Some are more serious than others, some are different kinds of challenges, but you you you fight through those things and you you're better for it at the end of the day. And so I've always welcomed it. I don't, you know, people talk about pressure and that I you know, my big deal is is I don't think of it as pressure.

13:08 I feel a significant and very important responsibility to so many people who love this game. It can be the players, it can be the coaches, it could be the owners, it could be the fans, it could be our partners. What is it that all of them rely on the NFL? And even today, Jim, it's even more that you know, people this this game has an important place in so many of our fans' lives, right?

13:30 They commit time and resources and um just a tremendous amount of their emotion to be part of our game. And I feel that responsibility. And I and I feel the responsibility to our players who I, you know, I I work for too. They have 50% of what we do on the revenue side is is given to our players. So I have a job to do is to to uh you know to meet that bar for them.

13:52 Also make our game safer, make sure the rules stay where they're not only safe, but they're competitive and they're exciting. All of those things uh it's a it's a non-stop set of challenges that I just feel I owe it to this game and I owe it to the people who love it.

14:07 Yeah, absolutely. It's an all-time high. The passion for football, you know, for myself, it's it's my whole life. You know, my grandfather played, my dad played, I I played, I got kids that want to play, and you know, it's just it's fun. I've heard the stories from my grandfather down to my dad, and my my mom went to dinner with George Hallis and my dad back in the day, got drafted by the Patriots.

14:27 But that was the old AFL, but you could go play in the other league, the NFL. So just some amazing stuff, and just that passion people have for the NFL. But you know, you you you've been amazing through the years, and I really appreciate you come to New York, you you sit down, meet with you, talk to you, listen to ideas, and you bring people together, and I just think that's great, and you're great for the league.

14:48 And you know, the success of the NFL now. It's unbelievable. I mean, you've been commissioned 21 years. The franchises were about 900 million when you first took over. They're 10x that, you know, 10 billion. I mean, that's an unbelievable return. The revenue is roughly six six billion now is twenty-four, your goal's twenty-five and beyond.

15:07 Amazing stuff, amazing returns. And I just think you know, that's that you're you know, you're a humble guy. I know you you you're gonna thank everybody and say everybody works well together, but you're the head man in charge, and that's that's an amazing run. And the the game's at an all-time high.

15:20 Yeah, and I think the the all-time high that I care about is not, you know, revenues or franchise values, is as much as it is the importance of the game in people's lives and the number of fans that we have that not just here in the States, but now globally, and how our game is growing in popularity because of that.

15:38 And it to me, uh that's ultimately why we're in the seat, is the impact is on do we change people's lives, either by playing the game or watching the game, or being a season ticket holder, or uh it's just an incredible opportunity that you don't get very often, and I say it all the time, we're lucky to be in this business, and I I talk about that with everybody in the NFL.

16:00 Um it's a privilege, and it's also a responsibility that we have to take seriously, and I love that piece of it.

16:06 Yeah, absolutely. No, and it's amazing the power of football. My my past I sold college football, sold the NFL for the Buccaneers, and the power when you look at the numbers, the number of female fans of the NFL. You mentioned a couple hundred million, probably half of those are female. My wife and her friends my wife and her friends went to a game this to the restaurant this weekend.

16:26 The other women are dressed in the Browns, Raiders stuff, they're they're going to the games, the passion, and then the flag football opportunity coming up, amazing, great Olympic sport, but also a great way to grow your base and keep your base in games.

16:39 And to let young women play the game, right? Which is is something that I think is just open the door. And when I see as a father of twin girls, when you you see young girls playing uh flag football and you see what it does for their confidence and their ability to compete and their ability to work as a team, all the things that we learn from playing the game, they're now getting that opportunity, and it's it's changing lives.

17:03 And so I really truly believe uh that our growth in the in the female population is one of the great things that is gonna help the NFL continue to stand above everything else and and deal from a position of strength because our our fan base is incredibly broad across a a variety of spectrums, and that's really the strength of our game.

17:23 Yeah, and I think women playing football to your point. Now, you know, internationally too, right? It's an Olympic sport. I mean it's gonna grow.

17:34 That's a an amazing number. And it's it's just getting started. So we really believe that it's gonna be an extraordinary success, whether it's in youth high school or college now or pro league, but also the Olympic platform, which is maybe the biggest international platform out there, that's a that's a really great opportunity for us.

17:53 And we'll be in LA at the Olympics in 28. And that's gonna be a fun moment for us.

17:57 Yeah, no, it's big. I I I love that. I think I'm bullish and all that. The international I I you you've kind of discussed about you know growing, expanding outside the US, which I think is a great great opportunity, great deal for everybody involved. I think that makes sense and grow the sport globally and female up and you know, youth that we just discussed.

18:15 So I see that as a big opportunity. I guess one other thing too, Raj, I talk to guys transition is the word, right? Whether it be in going from one business job to the next, one occupation to the next, a guy leaving the playing field to what's next. What how do you advise guys and gals transitioning anything in life?

18:34 What's the what's the some of the keys you would tell people to do it? Now you haven't had a transition, you transitioned, you've been to college to the NFL and you've you've done a great job. I mean, but you see people doing it all the time. What's your advice on that?

18:45 Yeah, Jim, it's the same word I use. I I think the biggest challenges in life are really around those challenges, those transitions, right? You know, going to college, going out and into a career world to changing jobs. And I and I think it's particularly hard for you know our players, and and it you know, this will probably sound odd to a lot of people, but on the day of the draft when we have our players come in to be drafted, it's one of the things I talk to them about is that you know, you you're going to be a retired player someday.

19:13 You're gonna transition out of this game as a player, and it can come quickly. Hopefully it doesn't. You have a long career, but it's gonna come. And you need to prepare for that. And so I think the right word is prepare and plan for it because you should take advantage of the platform that you have.

19:27 And it's one of the things I I think our players are the most incredible young men I've ever met. Do they make mistakes? Yes, we all do. But I think they are extraordinary young men who make the NFL better, not just by their playing, but by what they do off the field. The suggestions I get about things that we should be looking at and how we can make the NFL better, a lot of those come from players.

19:48 And so I want them to think about their skill set, their their abilities, their talents, and how they can apply those to life when they get done playing. And prepare for that because it's gonna make the transition easier. If you don't plan for it and it just hits you, it's even more difficult, right?

20:04 Because you it's got enough emotion and enough difficulties, and you know this. People think that the transition from the NFL into private life, if you want to call it that. Uh a lot of people say, well, yeah, they're gonna miss the lights and the fame and running out of. You know what they miss more than anything else, in my view, and I hear this consistently, is the locker room.

20:23 Right? It's a support, it's it's that reality. And I always say the locker room is, man, that is that is where truth happens. It's it's just real, right? And and I I think that that kind of support system is hard to replace, so you have to be ready for that and you have to plan for it. So, and that's true in any other career, probably.

20:42 Uh though different circumstances, not everyone has a locker room, but you get into that. Your your your life is scheduled to some extent, your life is dictated to you in many ways. You have to be prepared for that the time when it that's not the case. And the more you can think through it and prepare for it, the more successful you're gonna be.

21:00 100% agree. And I you know to your point too. I you know, I see guys do it, and as a player, you're so used to being coached and and kind of, hey, do this, do that, go here, go there. You know, you it ends and then you get out. And who who's coaching? That's why you hope guys have advisors, get counsel.

21:15 And then I I tell guys, hey, find something, go do something, don't do nothing. Just get busy, do something. My dad used to say he's passed too. He said, you know, finding out what you don't want to do sometimes is just as important as finding out what you want to do. I say that all the time. Get bit get busy, do something, and that activity will lead to something good.

21:34 I thought I wanted, you know, to be in a a lawyer, or I wanted to be a banker at one point in time. And you know, I did internships, and I it's exactly what your dad says, I say it all the time. That moves you closer to where you should be or want to be, right? And so finding out what you're not good at or what you don't want to do just pushes you closer to what you do want to do.

21:53 And that's why, to your point, you need to get out and do it. You have to experience it, you have to try it, you have to put your foot in the water. And see how she goes. And I think that's just it's part of your life ambition, right? Is to to live it and and to go out. It's not gonna fall on your lap.

22:09 These things you know you gotta go explore and you gotta live it.

22:13 Absolutely. No. One thing too, I I I've met recently with some private equity guys, investors, bankers. It's interesting to hear this concept too, with you know, AI's out there, right? AI is everywhere. We I use it every day and stuff I do for my business and things. They say, you know, it's that the reason the values or one of the reasons is you know, AI it's not going away.

22:40 Sports kind of has a motor on it because people have a passion for that, want to see that where other things you might invest in are getting replaced, other jobs, things like that. So I'm curious to see what your thoughts, you know, the AI, and then you know, I I've seen some of your interviews and things on officiating.

22:56 You know, I see the you know the the chain crew is that something AI, I mean, I think could replace, but yeah, they're never gonna replace the guys on the field because people want to see the game. But maybe the does AI AI help officiating, help even coaching, different things? What are your thoughts on that?

23:10 Yeah, I I listen, I'm a big believer in technology in general. Uh when technology exists, you need to embrace it because it's it's not likely to be going away. It it might get outdated and the next generation of technology will take over. But you need to use the tools in life to be successful, and AI is maybe one of the most revolutionary changes in our life.

23:31 I we'll i I guess we'll all find out. But but at the end of the day, you need to embrace it and and to figure out how you can use it to help you. So we use it in here. We talk about I I I speak to my friend and partner, Andy Jassy on Amazon, about using AWS and helping us figure out how can we use it to officiate our game.

23:51 And it's to your point, I don't think it's ever going to replace the official on the field, but I think it's another tool that's gonna help them be more successful and do a better job. And that's one of our responsibilities, right? Is I want I want to i it's a human game, so the mistakes are gonna be made on the field by players, coaches, and officials, and those are gonna happen, but you want to minimize that and you want you want it to be real, and people want the the outcomes that are earned on the field to be the the indicator of success or not success.

24:21 But I I think it's gonna change that. I think it's gonna change our fan experience. I AI is gonna help us personalize the experience for our fans. It'll help our you know our our partners ultimately in providing a better product and and finding new ways to connect with the audience. So I I really truly believe it's a game changer and we embrace it.

24:39 Do I think it's gonna replace the NFL? No, but uh I think it can make the NFL better. And I I don't we don't put our head in the sand when it comes to either the opportunities or the risks to new technology.

24:50 Yeah, absolutely. I I think it enhances. Yeah, I I coached for three years in the NFL, a couple of the Buccaneers, one with the Saints. And I it's amazing the hours I would do breaking down films, drawing pictures of the place. I mean, with AI now, it's like that's you just wonder how that it should help the coaches.

25:06 But you know those guys, they they love being in the buildings 20 hours a day, and it's just they grind on it, but probably don't need to be, but that's the profession.

25:14 I think they're still gonna be in there 20 hours a day, but I think they're gonna be able to to f and I I think this is a the word that I would use, it makes everyone more efficient. Because you don't have to do something manually that you can now do, and then you can take that information, that data, and you can figure out okay, how am I gonna put this into a strategy to win?

25:32 How are we gonna make these players better? How am I gonna make them the individual player better? But ultimately, I think it's gonna it's going to give us a wish to be better, but I I still bet those coaches will be in there 20 hours a day. That's to your point, that's what they do, but I think they're now gonna be even better.

25:48 And I it it's probably a large part of why our game's even more competitive today than it was five years ago.

25:55 Yeah, just the breakdowns, the statistics, all that stuff, breaking a film down, it definitely helps. Unbelievable Roger, I guess I ask people this too. So was some of the best advice you've ever gotten in your life? Like just you know, if someone's starting a company, someone's a young guy out there, young girl starting something, doing something, you know, needs a little juice in them.

26:14 What's some of the best advice you've ever received, got, given, or heard in your life?

26:19 Well, you know, there's so much. I'm I'm a huge believer in mentorship, and I I I think those relationships, you you need people in your life. So relationships is a really critical component. You people you went to school with, people that you might have had some interaction, just friends that you meet, they come they come back in your life and circle around in so many ways and impact in in critical moments.

26:44 It might be advice they give you, it might just be they remember you and say that wow, that was somebody that I liked working with and um, you know, demonstrated to me a lot of the personal characteristics of people you want to be associated with. And so, you know, that having good people around you and the mentors that can tell you what you need to hear is is really valuable in life, ultimately, and I I I really I encourage that a lot.

27:06 There's nothing that replaces hard work, you know it, I know it. It's like I I you know people think there's an easy street. I haven't found it. I I think it's it's at the end of the day, it's a a lot of hard work and commitment to making a difference ultimately. And you have to you have to make that decision in life ultimately.

27:22 And then it's you know, people always say, you know, follow your dreams, follow your passions. I I don't know, I I'm I'm a big believer in belief. Like I I I like believing in people, but I also you gotta believe in yourself. You gotta and that's not in a cockiness way, it's a it's you know, you're not gonna breach your potential until you believe that you can.

27:41 And that's true in business or personal life. And I think that's one of the things you really want to try to bring with the people you're working with, you're living with, your family, is having them have a strong belief in themselves is is probably the one the most valuable gift you can give anybody.

27:57 That's true. Uh believe believe in you. Remember the people in your life who believed in you when you needed it.

28:01 And I know I had a lot of it. A lot of times I didn't deserve the belief, by the way. But it you know, I remember those times. And you know, it's it's it's payback time to give that to people who you're you're living with and you're around.

28:20 Last couple questions. So, Roger, you signed on you a few more, four more years, five more years, whatever it is, to your at least to what's next. Political family you've been been from, and your wife's family's politics, ever have the interests that you maybe down the road, like I mean, Donald Trump, Joe Biden were in the 70s, they were presidents.

28:39 I mean, you're a young guy and fit you fit guy. You ever ever you're never gonna say never, but no, is that what what's life after the NFL for you? Would would you would you look at politics?

28:49 I don't uh I don't know what's in store for me even during the the remaining four years. Uh but I listen, I I live life in the moment, and I and I really believe that you're in that place to make a difference. So that's what I focus on ultimately. I I don't I think I'm in any way interested in politics.

29:07 My wife certainly isn't and doesn't want that. And my family has made a lot of great sacrifices for me to do this job between my wife and our our girls, and and frankly, even my extender family is not been easy on them in a lot of ways. So I owe it to them to to sort of the next stage is going to be with them as the focus and and what I can do to help repay them for all the things they've done for me.

29:30 No, absolutely. I mean, I I think you could win anything you want to do. You're doing a great job at the NFL and you're highly successful at what you do. I guess last question, you know, your daughters 20 years from now, 30 years from now. How someone brings up, hey, Roger Goodell, what what do you what do you hope they say?

29:45 You know, I I don't really think about legacy, Jim, and I I guess that's another way of saying that and and asking that. I I hope, you know, the I don't worry about the people who don't know me. The people who do know me, I hope they say, you know, he had integrity and he had honesty and he had of strong values and he was a person that you could believe in, and that would that would make me feel comfortable.

30:07 100%. You've definitely done it. And I was thinking about this, talking about, I mean, it definitely down the road is gonna be a Roger Goodell something. Whether you know that whether it be a trophy something, there's gonna be some big things because unbelievable unbelievable what you've done and been able to do, and you know, the again, hey, it's the world's numbers, results, you've you've done it and you continue to do it, and the next four years are gonna be great.

30:27 I'm excited for the expansion, things that you know down the road might happen, international and all that stuff, and all the growth of female sports, the the flag and all that. Exciting to see, so I really appreciate you and appreciate the time and you know you're doing a great job, and thank you. We'll talk soon, take care.

30:46 Thank you.