Apple Embraces A Touchscreen MacBook + iPhone Duo “Crackgate”

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You can put me at the top of the list of people who wanted a touchscreen MacBook Pro. It's about damn time, as LeBron James would say. Welcome to the Power On podcast. I'm Mark Gurman. We talk about Apple and the world of consumer tech. We're here in Los Angeles. I'm joined by my colleague, Chris Welch. Of course, we're going to talk about the iPhone Duo, my latest impressions of the device, getting an iPhone Duo, some of Chris's review, but of course, the cracking situation and other issues that people have had with the device. But like I said, we're in LA and we're going to talk about Apple's Pro Intel events. They launched a new iPad mini this week, new MacBook Pro, new iMac, and of course, the cherry

on top, The touchscreen, the ProLed XDR MacBook Pro with touch. And so we're going to break it all down. Chris, thanks for joining me. Let's start with the iPhone Duo. Of course. So you've had it now for, what, a week or so? Yeah. Exactly a week now?

Yeah.

What are your thoughts a week in?

I think I like it. There are certainly times where I still miss my Macs, just having all that vertical space, you know. But I do use it open probably 60% to 70% of the time. So I find myself really using it constantly and opening it. But that's because that screen outside is just a little bit cramped and like apps are not quite optimized and some are trying to get more optimized, but they're still not quite there. And like they're like overlapping controls. And so people are still figuring out the iPhone Duo. I think that's the clear message.

But like the phone itself, the hardware, I haven't had any problems. You know, we'll get into there have been some, but mine is still working great so far. And it's a good device. You know, the camera is good enough for what it is for my needs, shooting food, shooting friends, stuff like that. And on the whole, I'm satisfied. You've had yours for a few days since launch day.

So I got on launch day. So a few things. Before the iPhone Duo went on sale, I called the pre-order situation for the device a disaster, a mistake. And I 1000% stand by that. And we'll get into more of that when we talk about the cracking situation. But what I'll say is that a lot of people gave me heat on social media saying, oh, I'm being a big baby. I'm just complaining because I didn't get one. No, no, no, no, no.

I've got a Duo and I had one coming the whole time on October 23rd on that Friday. And so I was very happy to get it. I'm very happy to have it. But I did feel like I was sticking up for the Apple diehards that wanted this device, went to pre-order it, weren't able to get it as they normally would want to. And so let me give you a little bit more color as to why. What I've since learned from people very close to the logistics for the iPhone Duo is was that Apple allocated roughly 80% of initial iPhone Duo inventory to its retail stores and only 20% to delivery as well as walk-in pre-orders, so reservations.

So for the most part, if you were getting an iPhone Duo in-store on day one, you were getting it by waiting in line. And in terms of how many units stores actually had in terms of walk-in inventory plus pre-order inventory, We're talking, depending on the store, about 50, at the very high end, 250 units. Yeah, for sure.

Probably at the Fifth Avenue store, they had a tremendous number of them because the Apple executives were going to be there, and they didn't want it to be a whole issue where there were Apple executives there and people complaining about not getting their phones. But the reality is, this thing is an extremely short supply. They made a very limited number of them, and it was a disaster.

They initially wanted to release this thing in only the US and China at the end of November, and they went early. And A couple reasons why you can tell they went early other than the limited supply are some of the early issues with the product. You have software quirks. For example, no picture-in-picture FaceTime when you have the inner screen working. In Safari, the most used button anyone uses on their iPhone is the share button in Safari because they want to send their friends a link to a funny article. There's no share button. And then I try to pull down on getting notifications, right? That doesn't work for me maybe 75% of the time. But the biggest thing is probably the biggest iPhone hardware issue we've seen

other than the bend gate for the iPhone six plus and the antenna issue for the iPhone four. Now, let me just say from the start, just like those, they're going to come out unscathed here. There are a small number of iPhones, iPhone duos, and that could be tens of thousands of units. We don't really know small percentage that they use the phone. A customer uses the phone and they're opening the device to unfold it it feels a little tight so they keep opening it and then boom a piece of the hinge doesn't maneuver correctly and then punctures the display and the screen is broken yeah and if you could just go to an apple store and get the device replaced it's not really that big of a deal but you go to the apple store

and they tell you hey we have no inventory right.

And some people have gotten their swaps pretty easily some have gotten.

Swapped but everyone i know has not been able to get their swap i take that back most people i know haven't been able to get their swapped and there have been other issues a friend of mine His camera was broken from day one, came out of the box broken. You open the camera app, it's a black screen. He's been unable to find a replacement, right? If you go to AppleCare, you may have better luck, but in the stores, it's been more difficult. And what has really bothered me about this, there have been some influencers online who are essentially blaming the customer. Blaming Apple diehards who waited in line 10 hours, blaming Apple diehards that spent $ 2, 000 to $ 3, 000 plus on this device, saying it's their fault that

it broke. And it almost feels like Apple wants to come out and say, you're folding it wrong, right? Remember that you're holding it wrong with Antenagate? But they can't do that because they're a professional company and they know this is a real issue. So these influencers are instead doing it on their behalf. And I think it's gross and gaslighting. and terrible for the customer that people they know work closely with Apple are saying things that blame the customer when this is a real issue that Apple itself has acknowledged. So I'm curious, what do you think of this problem?

I mean, it's a real issue for sure. How small is small is the question, you know? We don't know. I'm sure Apple knows. They have the data, obviously, of how many are failing over time. But it does seem small. Like I have friends who have their duo and aren't having any issues, but there are reports online. You can see them. It always fails in that one point on the hinge. like one third up from the bottom, uh, that piece just comes off and that is a fragile screen.

So like anything that like digs into it is going to break it. Um, so who knows if, who knows if there's just like a bad batch of duos that came out, uh, or what the cause is like the underlying root root cause.

Uh, but I would guess it's a bad batch.

It is real.

And anyone telling you that it's not real and that you shouldn't believe the media and the reports of this is lying to you. There are some people who've tried to take advantage of this with AI, uh, People made a wallpaper saying that they have a cracked screen when they didn't. But this is legitimate. I put out a tweet Sunday night you may have seen asking, hey, people have been talking about this cracked phone issue. I'm not going to write about it unless I can validate this myself.

I woke up Monday morning early. Obviously, the iPad mini was announced at 6 a.m. and I knew that, so I was up bright and early. My inbox on Twitter was full of people with pictures, long stories of how it happened, unhappy about how Apple has handled it. People sent me receipts. So purchase receipts that they bought the device, pictures of them waiting in line for it. A few people sent me Genius Bar paperwork, correspondence with Apple confirming the issue. And I knew immediately this was real because you see it on Reddit and Twitter. You can't believe it.

But once my inbox started getting flooded with it, I was pretty surprised by the number that came in. And so this was a real thing. And Apple responded to it 18 minutes after I put my article out. They know where people come to get their news, and they know once I put it out, it's real.

Fair enough. But the main thing here is do right by the customer. Take care of them. Find a new duo for them at some point. It might take a week or two. But to have this very expensive phone and have it break within two or three hours is certainly a drag. So as long as Apple does right by the customer, I think this will be long forgotten in six months.

Oh, I think it'll be forgotten even sooner. Honestly, I would bet they've already figured out what this bad batch is. They've already isolated the batch, and any units you're getting are probably not going to have this problem. I'd be very surprised if we continue to see people having them. The other thing, and this is something we discovered and Apple said the same thing, that these phones break pretty quickly.

And so if you've had the device for a week, by now you should be good, and you're not necessarily in a waiting game for your phone to crack. But it is sort of a black eye on Ternus' first big launch, but Obviously, we know foldables are flimsy.

These things happen, as Samsung has learned long ago. You know, this is a V1 product, so there are going to be some stumbles. But as long as they get over it and fix it in time, I think it'll be good. But the stock issue is real. Like, this phone is hard to find right now. Like, if you didn't get yours on day one, it's tough. Like, people are building AI bots to, like, search their local stores and, like, buy one automatically.

And they're going out quickly, right? The second Apple is uploading that they have inventory in stores, they're going in seconds.

Yeah.

I was talking to the guys at the local stores here in LA and they're telling me people are camping out every night, still a week later. I've never seen this before for a new Apple product. People really want this thing.

They do.

And let me be clear. I've been using it for a week. The issues aside, this thing's freaking phenomenal. I love the iPhone duo. Thank you, Apple. I've been waiting for this. I've been excited about it. And I stand by my belief that this is going to become the new normal in half a decade or so, maybe a little bit more, maybe a little bit less. But this is just a tremendous product using FaceTime.

You don't find yourself wanting a bigger outer screen ever?

You know, maybe a little bit of a bigger screen. I don't mind it. I'm probably using 75% of the time the inner screen. I think the internal camera for FaceTime is not amazing, but it's good enough. I think the external cameras are good enough for my use cases. I'm not a pro photographer like you. I think it's been pretty great. The dual camera FaceTime has been great.

The kids cue thing has been, it really works. I would like to know the inside story of the testing that they've used for the kids cue feature where it's playing like Snoopy and other characters. So to get your baby to pay attention, I can confirm that works and that works well.

That was a Google feature first.

It was a Google feature first.

It was. It was.

And Google's done a great job on that. But I think Apple nailed it on this product. And I'm pumped for Gen 2, pumped for Gen 3 to keep this thing going.

Face ID. Gen 2, hopefully.

Okay. What is your take on Face ID?

I don't miss Face ID itself, but I feel like the Touch ID experience is just not always great. It's slower than it should be. I wish it would just unlock like that. As soon as you touch it, pick up the phone, hold your finger there, and it opens up to the lock screen. There's just that little bit of a beat. Where it waits. For some reason, you can see your notifications, I suppose. But I just wish it would just have the option.

There's a setting, like the rest setting, that improves things. That's on.

But even then, there's still a little tick where I feel like older iPads and iPhones would.

Just go right away. The second-gen sensor from a decade ago on the iPhone 6S was pretty gnarly.

But I'm sure they can fix that. Yeah, just give it time.

There'll be improvements. I want to see what the iPhone Duo operating system improvements are in iOS 28 next year. And I wonder if they eventually do a fork. of like a Duo OS, I don't think they will, but there should be some more pretty cool bells and whistles and ideas they add to this thing. So very excited to see where they take this thing.

All of them are- And the app story is already getting much better too.

So the app situation, I can count on one hand how many apps that I use regularly that have not been optimized yet. So I think the app thing has been completely overblown. Personally, I think the Touch ID, Face ID thing has been completely overblown. You can set five fingers on Touch ID. I have five fingers set, but they're not actually five fingers. I have a couple of fingers twice. I have the side of my thumb. I have the side of my index finger. For me, Face ID, the Touch ID has been a non-issue. The outer screen has been a non-issue. For me, it's the software quirks.

The pip for FaceTime not working on the inner display. The no share button in Safari. There's just like these little things. I can make a list that just is like, did they even test this thing? How long did they really use the software for? How long did it take for this to come together? Really is a bit of a head scratcher. But the overall experience for me has been good. The nano texture... Looks a little washed out.

It's not perfect. It's not as good as the nano texture that I've seen on like my iPad Pro and some friends' MacBook Pros. I understand why they did it.

It's like picker poison, right? Like do you want to be able to read something outside or do you want glare but like slightly more vivid colors?

I will say the crease thing is a bit of a lie. I think they weren't super genuine on the crease. I think that, you know, I've been using for a week. You can really see the crease now. You can see and feel it too if you swipe across.

Yeah.

And then so when people went to the Apple event, you know, in September to see this thing, Those are duos straight out of the box. Right. Maybe never put in a box. Right. Crease free. Yeah. And like, it's not going to show anything a few folds, but a few days it's there.

I'm curious how it'll look in like, you know, two or three months, six months.

I'm pretty curious. But again, if you have Apple care one or Apple care. So AppleCare One is 20 bucks a month. You get three devices. AppleCare is 20 bucks a month for the Duo. You get one device. So don't make a mistake and sign up for AppleCare.

Just for the one device.

Just for the Duo because you're throwing money away. Because chances are, if you've got a Duo, you've got other Apple devices. The other thing I'll say on Touch ID is the Apple Watch. If you have it open, it works instantly. Whereas on my Mac, it never works. So that's been a pretty cool experience. But again, not everyone has an Apple Watch. So you want to get Touch ID, right.

And hopefully, you know, people can log multiple fingers and the experience will be better for them. So overall, I would say it's a, it's a work in progress. The software needs some shaking up. And again, this would be the benefit of Apple shaking up the release schedule and moving faster. Like these AI companies, they come out with new models every week, new features every day. Apple has their cadence of, you know, software releases in October, December, a bigger one in March, a bigger one in September.

They need to move more quickly and iterate faster to bring more features and more bug fixes to this device.

You would hope some of this would be ironed out by like March, you know, February, January.

Yeah, but then by the time they ironed it out, you spent two grand plus on this thing. You made a lot of installment payments on this thing.

No one forced you to do that.

Well, no, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the customer. And then by the fall, you've already got the Duo 2 coming out, right? Apple didn't set themselves up well for this cracking situation with Ternus coming out and saying that the other foldables are cheap and crappy. They didn't set themselves up by taking an extra decade over everyone else. And Tom Marriab, who runs hardware engineering, before he became head of all hardware engineering, he made his way at Apple because he was the durability guy.

So he came out and did some interviews a few weeks ago. And he's like, hold us accountable on the crease. Hold us accountable on this display.

People sure are. Yeah.

We're holding them accountable. But you know who's not holding him accountable? Some of these influencers basically blaming the customer. And I don't think that's right because people have to believe what you have to say.

Yeah.

So.

It's a balance. You know, some people just go at Apple so hard for any little flaw or issue, and it's like this is being blown up into a monstrous problem for the device.

But how do you think the people feel who bought this phone, have been excited about it for years, waited for it, spent all the money on it, and then it breaks, and then they try to go to the Apple store and can't get a new one? I'd be pretty upset. And again, I have no gripe here because this has not happened to me, but I know if it did, I would not be happy.

Yeah, that's the key part. Like, Apple should be able to just... You just go to the store, swap it out. Here's your new one. Hopefully this one won't break. And then, you know, just send you on your way.

For a phone made with this technology, that is new technology, that is first generation, they should have allocated a handful of iPhone Duo units to every store specifically for swaps. And it does not seem like they did that for every location. I think some locations they did it, but it does not seem to have been a uniform policy.

I can tell you, when I got the iPhone X back in 2017, mine was a dud. And I went to the Apple store in San Francisco, Union Square at the time, flagship store, and they had dedicated allocation of inventory for situations like that. I was in and out with a new phone in minutes. A lot of people didn't have that luxury for the iPhone Duo this time around.

And I don't think Apple had that luxury because they didn't have enough supply to do that.

How soon do you see it leveling out?

In terms of the supply issue? I would say by... No. I mean, I think They clearly have a goal in mind of January, end of January, right? Because that's the timeline, January 25th to 29th when you order a new one.

Right.

But you got to beat the AI bots at this point or get an AI bot to get one or camp out. It's pretty gnarly. So the new theory, if Apple sends out an event invite for a Wednesday event, it means they've got three days of product announcements, and they want to cap it off with the biggest announcement that Wednesday, and they want to do a hands-on at that Wednesday thing of the new thing, plus what was introduced on Monday and Tuesday. They've now done this a few times. They did it in March with the, it was the iPhone 17E, then the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air, and then they capped it off with the MacBook Neo.

They did it a few years ago. They did a three-day of the M4 Mac line. And then again now this week, they've done it. So on Monday, we got the OLED iPad mini. On Tuesday, we got the new iMac and 14-inch MacBook Pro with M6. Really small updates, by the way, like chip and chips to a new level. And then of course, Wednesday, today, as of this morning, the MacBook Pro ProLED XDR display with touch.

Right.

That's like an Android device level name. But the first MacBook Pro with touch. We've been dreaming about this. Apple's been telling us for 20 years, you don't want this. You don't need this. It's bad for you.

It's uncomfortable.

It's horrible. They laughed at you. They questioned how you could ask such a thing. And they just did it and then did nothing to fix the problems that they said were there.

They have a little bit.

Well, let's get to that. Let's start Monday. Sure. Okay, iPad mini OLED. Are you an iPad mini guy? Because I know there's like a.

I'm a 13-inch iPad Pro person, so definitely not on the mini front. And I feel like this also fills that need for me now, the Duo. So I don't really see myself buying a mini in the future. But it's certainly much cheaper than the iPhone Duo. So there is a market for it. It's a good e-reader. And I think it's nice. It's a 60-hertz OLED, which people are not thrilled about in this world of 120-hertz screens everywhere you look. So I'm not sure why Apple held that back. Maybe because the iPad Pro, they want people to buy that instead. But on the whole, it's a nice mini. It's water-resistant for the first time, so you can take it poolside and not have to fret about anything happening to it. But the price is a little.

700 bucks. Still, I think it's a fantastic little machine.

Agreed.

And I think that for e-reading, for using on the subway, using on the bus, I think for kids to some extent, especially with the water and dust resistance... I think it's a fricking cool little tablet and I'm excited to play with it. OLED obviously on there. So it's a stunner on the display wise, the 700 is a little steep, uh, but it's a nice little product. You've got the eight 20 pro in there, which is a nice big jump from the eight 17 pro had previously 60 Hertz, you know, is not, is not, it's not great. Um, so we're sort of in between a baseline tablet and a pro device.

And so I'm excited to see how the iPad line continues to evolve. So what's next for the iPad? In the beginning of next year, so in the first half of next year, you'll see a refresh to the base iPad, which really is desperate for an update. It's been a really long time. iPad Air is going OLED as well.

and so it'll match the the iPad mini there because right now the iPad mini is better than the iPad Air which you know doesn't make a lot of sense and the iPad Pro which has had the tandem OLED since 2024 um I have the M4 iPad Pro that thing's awesome Right? I know you have the M5 version. It's the same.

It's the favorite screen I own. Right?

It's fantastic. You know, that's like my ideal device for watching video on. And so you'll see a new iPad Pro as well.

Do you see dust and water systems coming to the Pro at some point? Or is it too big to really make that practical?

That I don't know. But what is coming or should be coming is a vapor chamber. And so, you know, it's a really thin device. I have not experienced a lot of overheating on mine, though. But clearly, if you're pushing that thing to the limits and you're going to put a new M-series.

Chip in there. Video editing or like hardcore gaming, then I'm sure you can make it heat up. Yeah. Facebook. No, I'm kidding.

You know, the vapor chamber makes sense, right? They're putting the vapor chamber in all their Pro products at this point. So, okay. Tuesday. M6 MacBook Pro 14-inch.

This was kind of the snoozer day.

It was the snoozer day. They wanted to sort of sandwich the snooze in between the two biggies. So the 14-inch MacBook Pro got nothing other than updated Bluetooth, updated Wi-Fi, updated wireless chip, and the M6 processor. And they're on this yearly cadence for this 14-inch MacBook Pro. It doesn't make a ton of sense as a product, but people love the MacBook Pro brand. And people love using them in schools and businesses and whatnot. And so moving from every chip generation to the next one for that device makes sense. And they're planning a redesign. of the baseline 14-inch MacBook Pro for next year, K104, to fit an updated lighter frame, updated feature sets that you saw with the Touch MacBook Pros we were talking about in just

a minute. Why do you think it exists? Because it's just basically like, it's the same chipset as a MacBook Air, but a little nicer, but a lot more expensive.

I mean, it is still a nice screen. You know, it's been superseded today by the OLED, but as far as an LCD screen, that's about the best you can get. So it is nice for watching movies on. You know, it is sharp and bright. Um, and I guess, you know, uh, for like sustained performance, if you really want to push the chip and you get slightly more there than you would like on the air, for example, which tends to throttle down a little bit, uh, the more you push it.

So it's got like a reason for being, I just don't think like people like you and I are obviously not going to buy the base level 14 inch MacBook pro, but, uh, but, but people certainly do.

You'll also see a new MacBook Neo, uh, and a new MacBook air in the first half of next year as well. Um, I don't know if they're the same time as the refreshed base 14 inch MacBook pro. But those are coming. The iMac. That's getting a little bit long in the tooth, right? Because the iMac was last redesigned April, May of 2021. It had the M1 chip.

And so they've refreshed the iMac in terms of colors one time. So they've done iMac M1, M3, M4, and now M6. It's been two years.

Same colors as the last.

Same colors as the last two rounds, right? And so they... They need to do something. I think the iMac design is really nice. It's getting a little dated. And of course, we need the big one. They've looked at an iMac Pro. They've had iMac Pros internally.

Bringing back the 27.

Right. Well, how awesome would a 27-inch or 30-inch be? Put a Pro or a Max or even an Ultra chip in there, make it a high-end all-in-one. Yeah. That would sell really well. But they are looking at an OLED iMac that I can tell you as well, but I still think that's a few years away. Okay. So maybe that's the next big change.

Intriguing.

Do you use an iMac?

I don't. I don't. I don't. I mean, I've got the MacBook Pro, the iPad Pro, and I've got a Mac Studio at home. So that's my beastly home PC when I need it. But by and large, I just use the portable stuff. And that tends to work pretty well.

I was always an iMac guy. And then I pivoted to.

Same for a long time. Back when they were metal and glass, I had quite a few versions of those. But this new thin at home, it seems more like an office computer.

It's a family machine.

Or a family machine like a doctor's office computer.

Like you walk into a place, a salon or whatever, and they're checking people in on the iMac.

A studio like this would have the iMac. Yeah.

But it's a good machine. There's nothing wrong with it. But I definitely think there's room for a pro version of this.

Bigger.

It used to be a very consumer machine. Then it became a prosumer machine. And now it's like purely a consumer product.

Family thing through and through. Family thing.

So I would really like to see a larger iMac. With more powerful chips. So hopefully we get that.

Size aside, how else would you change it? Like what other tweaks would you make? It's already pretty thin.

Well, the design is great. Needs more ports, right? More IO. But that comes in to effect when they ultimately, if they do a pro version. I'm curious if they'll make it so it's like the Microsoft Studio, right? You can pull it down and do touch manipulation on it. That would be nice. But OLED is obviously the other thing.

And then it's a great video conferencing machine. So maybe they can go a little crazy on the camera specs.

Yeah.

That would be nice too. How would you change it?

I think the same points, mostly ports, ports, ports, you know, the more I have, the more I'm happy. But as far as like speed, you know, the usual stuff, touchscreen would be nice. But I feel like that would be less like less friendly to like just holding up for long periods of time, tapping the desktop screen. But, you know, we'll see how far it goes. Hopefully the iMac, it does make sense eventually to have like some pro-level built-in screen desktop.

So you just used the new Touch MacBook Pro ProLED XDR.

I did.

How the hell is it?

That screen is gorgeous. Yeah. I mean, just like, that's the first thing you notice. So as soon as you open it up, you see the glowing logo, which is such a fun callback to the old school MacBook Pros. But the front is all modern. Like that OLED screen is just so stunning to look at. Touch, you know, there are so many people on X and Twitter saying, I don't need a touchscreen. So then, You don't have to use it. You don't have to use touchscreen to have this be a great laptop. It just looks stunning.

It's powerful. It's so much lighter. That's the main thing. When you hold it, you do feel that weight difference for sure. Thinner, maybe a little bit, sure, but that weight is there and clear for sure.

They re-architected the interior significantly. Even though this new MacBook Pro looks the same, it's a complete end-to-end overhaul. There is a new, and I don't know if they talked about this at the event, a new air cooling system. There's a new hinge system for better stability. And some of the air is able to travel through to the back of the hinge and out the backside now as well.

Yeah.

And so they've done a nice job there. And then having more space inside the casing as well is going to allow the performance and better sustained performance.

Yeah.

This is a nice machine.

It's like there are no downgrades or like compromises, honestly. It's just a much better screen that you can touch. But otherwise, just a much... Yeah.

So tell me about the operating system, the touch interface. What is it like using touch on there? What are those cool little bells and whistles and tricks?

What is.

What is the experience?

It's pretty conservative. So when you touch it, there's more space in vertical menus between items. So you can actually tap things fairly easily. When you press and hold the stoplights to close and maximize an app, those get bigger. But there's no vast system-wide changes that make it touch.

What about the menu bar?

The menu bar? Yeah, it's a bit more spaced out than before. But again, nothing too major. And so when you touch it, it's spaced out. But if you use the trackpad, it's not as normal.

Yes, they've done a good job.

They know if you're touching or just using a trackpad or a mouse. So you don't have to touch the machine at all, and it'll just work like always. But if you do, things are a bit more spaced out and touch-friendly, but it's not like a drastic level UX-wide thing that's being forced on all buyers. So it's there if you want it, and if you just want to buy it and not touch it ever, then you can do that and still have this gorgeous OLED screen that is really, really great to use.

There's a few reasons why they're finally doing touch. I think Tim Cook basically just got tired of of being asked when is Touch coming to the MacBook Pro. I mean, he's been pretty open about it internally as like, this is like the big user request. This is the biggest, you know, low-hanging fruit. Let's just do it. It doesn't really matter that Steve Jobs and myself and we, you know, sort of poo-pooed this idea for years. Let's just do it.

It is a table stakes spec sheet item across the PC laptop industry at this point. And so it's something they just had to do. The implementation seems like they did a good job. They didn't go over the top. It seems like it's right in their user flow.

Exactly.

And so I think it'll be a popular feature.

I really do.

What do you see people using it for? Like, I don't think they're going to do the garage band piano thing on this. This is going to be for pinching and zooming on photos.

For pinching and zooming, photo editing is great. I think video editing.

Moving the timeline.

Yeah, the timeline stuff is great. So there is like super useful things that this can do that like your MacBook right now cannot. But if you don't like want a touchscreen, if you're a coder, then maybe it's not super useful. But even they're like building apps and like iPhone mirroring. is so much more useful now. Oh, did you try that? Yeah, it works. Yeah, it's great.

And also like running iPad apps on macOS.

Yeah, that just feels like so much more intuitive and natural now since you can actually touch it.

They've basically worked around, you know, the real reason they never wanted to do this was because they didn't want to compromise sales of both the Mac and the iPad. But at some point you have to make the iPad as good as it can be. And at some point you have to make the Mac as good as it can be. And part of that is implementing a touch OLED display. You can't worry that that is going to cannibalize sales of the other products. Seeing the introduction of this MacBook Pro, like I knew this was going to be the case, but actually seeing it in practice today, this is not going to compromise iPad sales at all.

People were hyped. The room was very exciting.

Well, of course the room was very excited. They had about a few media members, right? And then 80% of the room was influencers coming to this event on Apple's dime, right? So maybe that's why people were.

Probably had something to do with it.

But me.

Like this is just like a fun product. Yeah.

No, I love it. I ordered one.

I am.

Psyched for this. I've been waiting for this for years. You can put me at the top of the list of people who wanted a touchscreen MacBook Pro. It's about damn time, as LeBron James would say. And I think this is going to be a phenomenal product. But I am a little, you know, concerned because some people think the price is kind of steep. $ 2899 starting price for the 14-inch.

Yep.

$ 3399 starting price for the 16-inch.

Yeah.

It's a 16.3 instead of a 16.2 now, by the way. I don't know if you saw that.

I did not notice that.

Not a big difference, but biggest MacBook Pro display since the 17-inches back in the day.

By a smidge, yeah.

And so you're paying a $ 400 premium for OLED in touch in a dynamic island. How did they get to that? The OLED probably cost them an extra $ 200 over the mini-LED. You double that, you get your 50% margin. Yeah. So, easy economics.

Yeah. But that's why they're keeping, like, all the others, like, still in the lineup. Yeah. You can buy the non-touch versions. Yeah.

And those got bigger price hikes in June.

Yeah, that's true.

So, you know, you're already paying, you know, the base real MacBook Pro.

Yeah.

That's $ 2, 500. Yeah. The base real 16-inch MacBook Pro is $ 3, 000. So in that context, a $ 400 premium does not seem that crazy to me. And given the Delta is not that wide and how similar in visual design the MacBook Pro Pro is versus the normal MacBook Pro, you got to bet they're going to converge on these things probably as early as the end of next year. Yeah, perhaps.

But I'm looking forward to checking it out, you know, more. But yeah, I've held it and it's super lightweight. But the screen is just like, it's very, very, very good.

It's slightly thinner. Does it feel thinner in practice?

Maybe a smidge, but like, not that much. But the weight you definitely feel compared to like, you know, especially like the 16-inch, I always cart that thing around at the coffee shop. And this is going to feel quite a bit better.

You need like a wagon to take it around with you.

Essentially, yeah.

Yeah, the 16-inch was a beast. And this is still a beast. But it's, you know, it's a bit of a, a beast on GLP-1s, right? More mobile and slimmer and healthier and ready to go.

Exactly. But the software, it's not super in your face. I think they're going to learn how people use this over time and make those suites to Mac OS just to fix the UX and make things more touch-friendly in places and see what people want as far as tools and how it works. But overall, they took a pretty safe approach to bringing touch to the Mac. It's there.

It's not in your face. It's not being forced on anyone. but it works pretty well.

Well, typically when they come out with a major new form factor change, it's the operating system afterwards that seems to really take advantage of it. So I haven't heard anything to this effect, but you can bet or imagine that iOS and Mac OS 28, you'll see big interface changes for the, you know, touch Mac and the, and the iPhone duo, or at least I would hope so. Right.

So. Yeah, for sure. This feels like a halfway, like in between year where they like, where they kind of work well, But obviously you can tell Apple wants to make bigger changes to both of these platforms, the MacBook Pro and the iPhone Duo. And I'm sure the next version will have so many more refinements that it'll make life much better.

So in addition to, give us a guess, them converging the touch and non-touch MacBook Pros at the end of next year, you're going to see a refresh to this MacBook Pro with M7 Pro and M7 Max chips at the end of 2027. Significant leaps with a lot of new AI stuff and graphic stuff in there, media engine stuff.

What do you think of the idea that they skipped the M6 Pro and M6 Max, which we called, obviously, and these recycling the M5 Pro and M5 Max from March?

It seems kind of curious, but already this silicon is just so powerful as is. What are you possibly doing that you need a brand new generation to really make the most of this new MacBook?

Scrolling through apps all night.

Scrolling through apps with your finger. Yeah, I mean, these are such powerful machines. Yeah, they're just so capable. And so I'm sure, like, once the M7 rolls around, it's going to be that much more performant. But, like, I don't mind, like, spending that much money right now to have the M5, even though it's old. It's still just so fast. And so, yeah, I don't think you're going to lose out on much. Like, it's odd to, like, have the same chip in there that's been out for a while. But there's so much else new about this machine that I don't think that's going to really weigh on people that much.

Okay, so 14 or 16, nanotexture or glossy, and space black or silver.

16-inch, because I'm getting older, my eyes are just, you know, not what they used to be. And I just like having that much, like, just a big screen. So, yeah, that's my choice. But the 14-inch is so light. So, like, if you want, like, a portable thing to take anywhere for travel, I think.

Well, that's what the iPad Pro is for.

That one's out. Yeah, so that's why the 16-inch is my choice. Silver, forever. I'm just, like, the silver stand. I think just silver is just so classic Mac. And plus black will, like, scratch and, you know, it's not.

Boke the analyzation.

Yeah, exactly. So, That happens to look silver anyway underneath. So just get silver. It's timeless. It's classy. That's my recommendation. And the screen, definitely nanotexture. Once I went to that, it's hard to go back to glossy. I mean, maybe it's a bit more saturated. The colors are a bit more vibrant. Maybe the contrast is like slightly higher. But I think, I don't know, man. I just love nanotexture, everything.

It is nice.

Here on the iPhone Duo, on the MacBook, on the studio display, just having no glare is just, it's a nice life.

It's nice.

Costs a lot, but.

150 bucks.

You know. Well worth it.

Okay. So I'm with you on the screen size 16. Okay. But not with you on the other stuff. Okay. Going glossy, especially on an OLED. I really, you know, if we're moving to OLED here and OLED is sort of the standout part of this update.

Yeah.

I want to see everything.

Okay.

And it's not like I'm working in the middle of the forest.

Right?

I'm indoors at a house, an office, or a coffee shop, or on an airplane.

Mm-hmm. uh yeah we're just going to be like worse as far as like smudges go like once you start touching this thing a lot it's like.

It does it come with a polishing cloth the non-nano texture.

Uh i'm not sure if the non-nano texture does but you would hope so because you're going to be touching i don't think it.

Will i don't think it does they usually reserve those for the nano texture at this point but you.

Don't need to get the polishing cloth yeah.

Remember when that thing sort of just like hit the zeitgeist and it's like the most popular exciting apple product um i have one it's a nice cloth yeah well And you'll be getting one of these new MacBook Pros soon. I will. You'll be reviewing it.

I'm very excited. I'm going to touch it plenty and see how it works, see what the quirks are. And yeah, it's going to be great.

You think touch will stick around. Obviously, the touch bar was a massive failure, but this is different.

Yeah, I wish the touch bar they'd given like more goes. They just kind of like left it the same and And so, of course, that was not going to work out great. But I feel like this is going to be a pretty fundamental part of the system. Once you start building Mac OS changes for it, I feel like you're on a road to where it would be kind of silly to take it back and say, yeah, you know what, this.

Wasn't... And it's weird at this point. You've got your touch phone, your touch tablet, your touch watch, right? Kids grow up, they think everything is touch.

Yeah, there are times when I touch my MacBook Pro and I'm just like, weird habit.

It doesn't even make sense at this point that it's not touchscreen. And so I would expect this is eventually going to come down the line. And you'll see premium versions of all the Apple Macs at some point within five years, all will be touch.

Yeah, sure. It's long overdue. And like some of these tweaks, like the hinge being so sturdy does make a difference. Like when you tap it, there's like no wobble release. And they're just like nice, like, you know, just like small touches. But the screen is really the star of the show. You can touch it if you want to.

No one's making you. But yeah, it's OLED.

Do you think they should have gone a little bit further on the OS?

I think they will over time. You know, I think like.

There's more coming.

Yeah, like you were saying, like this is like V1. And we're still on GoldenGate, so they couldn't really change that much out of hand mid-cycle. So I'm sure they will for the next version. But what's there is nice. But you can see where they're going to make things more touch-friendly for those who use it. And for everybody else, use your trackpad and it'll work just like it always has.

And there are no real huge changes.

The other thing they finally rolled out, that higher-end Mac Studio, the fully-loaded version.

512 gigs of RAM. So those are, what, north of $ 22, 000?

Very niche market. It's a niche market. And then you'll see an M7 Ultra Mac Studio come out in 2028, right? Those are a bit of a year and a half, two-year cadence. So looking forward to that.

I'm just happy that we're finally slowing down this cadence of just nonstop Apple products. Amazon just put out a bucket load of new hardware. So it's been a very, very busy fall. It's fun.

It's fun. So November 6th, the new iPad Mini, the M6 Max, and the Touch MacBook Pro. November 6th on Friday, as we expected. Those will be out. Then a week later on November 13th.

Home View.

Home View and Apple TV.

Apple TV 4K. That is way too expensive.

Last thing. You excited about the Home View?

I'm looking forward to trying it. You know, I've never been like a smart home person. I live in like a Brooklyn apartment. So there's only so much like smart home gadgetry that I can really take advantage of beyond like locks and like lights. But I'm looking forward to like seeing what it's all about, how it works, how it fits into my life. And it's $ 2. 99, so it's not like a huge gamble.

It's worth a shot.

Yeah.

It's worth a shot.

Well, cool.

Chris Welch, thanks for coming on again.

Always a pleasure. Give me my badge back. You're going to get me in trouble.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is mine now. This is mine now. I was there in spirit.

Yeah, of course, as you always are.

Yes, sir.

For more from Mark, subscribe to the Power On newsletter at Bloomberg.com forward slash Power On.

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Our show is produced by Alexis Hott and Keshav Pandya. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henriksen.

Audio engineering by Blake Maples. Original music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Zagira. Our video editor is Bobby Krause.

Our executive producer is Amy Keene.

And Cheryl Brumley is our head of podcasts. Special thanks to Nick Turner and Tom Giles. Thank you for listening.

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