HomeView First Look with Jennifer Tuohy

0:00 Welcome to a special episode of Primary Technology. I'm your host, Stephen Robles, joined by my friend and co host Jason. How's it going, Jason? It's very good. I'm I'm very excited about this extra episode. This is a fun episode where we have a big debate because for the first time on this show we have special guest Jennifer Pattison Touhy.

0:15 Jen, thanks so much for being here. Hello, hello, so excited to be here, very honoured. Yes, and we met at CES earlier this year for the first time, so that was super fun. ~ yes, Yes, the Akara event. And I have the pin. yeah, and that I haven't been to Antarctica though yet, sorry. yes, right, you do have our primary tech pin.

0:33 That's wonderful. And Akaro is gonna come up later in this conversation because we're gonna compare that. I have some questions about Apple Home Collection, but HomeView, that's the story. You were there at the event in person. You had, I think, a great reel of all the stuff. you got Yeah. to spend a long time with it. And a lot of creators said that they couldn't actually use the device. Apple kind of used it for them and they could record it.

0:58 So, Jen, you were there in person. I want to hear from you. Overall impressions, how did you ~ how who did you bribe to get hands on time with this thing? How did it go? Just tell me all about it. Yeah, yeah, okay. So it was a unique Apple event from what I'm told, because it was actually my very first Apple event, because Stephen, in case you didn't know, they haven't done a lot of stuff around Apple Home.

1:22 It's been a minute. It's been a minute. So yeah, it was lots of different experiences. So they had a keynote, which was... a video basically, and then Cecilia, who's one of the product managers on Apple Home, kind of gave a little presentation. And then they had two apartments set up in the building that were kitted out as full New York City apartments.

1:50 So it was the whole floor of this ~ five story Tribeca townhouse, Five store. I think, I didn't count, but there were a lot Yeah yeah. of floors, at least five. And there were two different apartment areas. And then there was a sort of staged area where most of the videos you probably saw were done, where it was more the sort of typical hands-on of like an Apple iPhone event where everything's on a plinth and it's all mainly in demo mode. So you couldn't really do much.

2:19 You could just see different things, Yeah. different experiences. flying by, which was kind of difficult for videos Rotating around. because you were like, I want it back, come back. But Right. yes, so there were those different experience rooms. The main room was the apartment that was actually designed by an interior designer.

2:39 They had the interior designer come out and give a little talk, which was kind of neat because one of my big things about smart home technology is that much of it has not. being designed with the home in mind. It's often been designed by, and I say this, I've said this many times before and people can come at me, but by single male men, single men in their 20s that live in Silicon Valley in a small apartment. So it doesn't really have the family in mind or the home space in mind.

3:12 outside of a small apartment. ~ So, you know, it's got better over the years, definitely. And Google has done good stuff here with the sort of fabric wrapped in nice colors. We've seen more of that. But anyway, I thought it was great that they had it all set up in a really nicely designed apartment. And this wasn't like steel and brick and glass apartment.

3:34 It had like soft furnishings and, you know, it felt like a more traditional home. maybe not a normal home, because this is still Manhattan and it was a large apartment. But they had all the devices sort of interspersed around the home as you would in your home. And it was very well done because you actually, I sort of walked past things and missed that there was a device there.

3:57 It wasn't like really in your face. So it was giving you that, this is what it's like in your home experience, which I thought was well done. And we've seen other companies try and do this. Amazon did it with its Alexa Echo event. this was an actual home, which I think lent to the experience. We had very limited time in each space.

4:17 We had very limited time in each space and there was an Apple representative doing each demo, but Mm-hmm. I just went in and started swiping. I did not ask permission. So you just didn't ask permission, Ha ha. you just went up. Okay. No one had said, don't touch. Okay, okay. yes, and I just, and he was very...

4:38 ~ obliging and he kind of jumped Okay. in to to help when I got messed up because it was a lot of swiping. You may have noticed in the video I was constantly Yes. doing the up and down and it was a lot of swiping. But you know it's a new UI so it kind of is a cross between an iPad and an Apple Watch kind of UI.

4:57 So Yeah. that was a little kind of took a bit of getting used to and swiping down activated Siri so obviously you can also Mm. activate it with your voice but So then I'd get the little bubble Bubble. and it would be stuck there and wouldn't go away. So yeah. But it didn't type to Siri real because so when you swipe down for Siri, You spoke to it. It was speaking.

5:16 it's not a type to Siri. You use it's only speaking. But there is Yeah. So. a full keyboard available in some places on the home view. Right, although I never actually saw that pop up myself, but I did see that in Really? other videos. Yeah, and I only had the amount of time on that video is how long I had. It was yeah, so look like two minutes.

5:35 You had two minutes with it. very short, but yeah, and because they were then like, you got to go to the next bit and see this experience. So there were Sure. four. So there was the one that I, the main one you saw, and that was sort of the entryway. And that was the smart home view. So you, with different buttons, like the I'm Okay.

5:51 leaving button, the door lock button. And that's a skin of the Apple Home app. you're going in to sort of, if you're leaving the house, you might hit one button. You have thermostat control, which is the obvious kind of Yeah. use case for the wall. And then you go straight into the, that's the Home app that you're looking at there.

6:11 There's the Siri AI bubble. And then the neat thing was the camera view. And Yeah. that I was impressed with. It pulled up so fast. And those were live feeds of real cameras. Really. And that is something that smart displays to date have struggled with so much. So this so this this I wanna sit on for a second, because Jason and I talked about this last week, and one of the things that no current Apple device is great at is seeing live camera views or even Yeah.

6:39 one live camera view just persistently. Like the only good place to do that is on an Apple TV, and then you can bring Right. up like multiple camera feeds and see them live-ish. Even then I'm not a hundred percent if that's like all if all of them are live. But like on Yeah. any of your Apple devices.

6:56 And obviously not on a home pod. You have to you see a freeze frame and then you have to click in to see it live. So as Right. far as you know, on the home view, you can have the four camera up view, and they're all live feeds of home kick cameras. you can have nine cameras on that On this little seven-inch screen.

7:11 little, I said, they're gonna be really tiny, right? And And they're all love. they're all live, yeah, that's what they said. ~ Okay. And you click in on them and it takes you to the full screen with the same experience you get in the iPhone app where you have other devices nearby that you can click into. So you could in theory have your video doorbell screen and then your door lock.

7:34 right there so that you can turn on and off or the porch light that you could turn on and off. So yeah, was very much, ~ yeah, those were all live and up to nine they said you can have on one screen. So I know you had very limited time and we'll once we get your full review and everything, but for something like that, is there a timeout on the screen?

7:54 Does it does the screen like wake up when it detects that someone's near it so you could see this or like what's that like? Yeah, so there was a discrepancy I noticed, I hadn't read all the press releases, because this was at 9 a.m. and the press releases dropped at 9 a.m. Right. At nine AM, yeah. And I think somewhere it said in a press release that, or at least I read someone had written that ~ it adjusts as you approach, which I did not see. So Okay.

8:22 everything was static. And as you moved up to it, it stayed that way. So that home view screen that you saw, when you approached had ~ the same, I think it was, there's up to six widgets on the one that I saw. And that's Right. what you got. And it didn't change. There you go. Not six, I can't count.

8:42 One, two, three, four, five, it is six. No, no, no. Well it's six like w with the clock, Yeah, yeah. and you can have more. I think you can have up to nine. Yeah, you can. Okay. so it didn't change. It just looked like that the whole time. And it didn't go away. And it doesn't have a screensaver. Okay.

8:56 So you choose whichever Huh. face you want. So this was a face, you could have a photo as a face, you could have the cameras as a face, but you can swipe so there are multiple faces. So if you wanted a photo up the whole time, you could then have your home face as your next one and just swipe to get to it.

9:15 Or you just leave your home face up so you can just come up and press the button. And that is key, I think. And that's something that no other smart Right. display offers right now. is that ability to just come right up and press a button and it works straight away, just like a light switch. He's Right. And so I'll let Jason ask a question after this because I'm I'll dominate the whole time. But with the no, I'm just enjoying the conversation.

9:36 It's fine. no, no, no, no. Okay, I'll get no no I know. still here. I just want one other question and then and then Jason go next. So for the home control, you can have up to nine widgets, you're saying, which makes sense. Like if you have like Yeah. small, medium, and large size widgets and the the three across are the small, then you could have nine. Can Yes.

9:52 you have and ~ Shane Watley was saying that maybe you can only have one of these. Can you ha like could I make multiple of these screens. Yeah. multiple nine widget screens or does it not seem that way? I did, so he, think he asked that question, didn't he? Cause I think he said I think he did. he asked and they said no, but I don't know.

10:09 And okay then a file Cause you can have multiple photo screen. Well, I dunno. Yeah. That's this is what I'm saying. Like if it's like an Apple Watch face where you would have multiple but my other question, you might not know this because we we we don't have this hand, but is this a like personal face?

10:22 Like when you have the six profiles, is like can I make a face that is just for me, like the nine widgets, or this is a public, No, all the faces are public because the profiles like okay. don't appear until you get up close. So I see. the faces are shared and the profiles Okay. are what you see once you click in.

10:43 So when you swipe up from the bottom, you get different apps and those you would get separately based Okay. on your profile. And when you come up close, I think that might be where that confusion came. Because when you come up close, With your profile, it can switch to your profile. But if that seems strange though because that's what I'm saying.

11:02 And I don't know what you then get to see. Yeah, what do you see? You don't want it to change when you get up there. 'Cause like if it's if it's the home controls as the Yeah, I don't want it to change, right, Yeah, yeah, that, exactly. Like I want to control my home. That's strange. yeah, we still don't know. They didn't sort of demo that.

11:17 The Okay. only thing they demoed was switching faces, but then you were already in the face. So the way they switch faces in the top left of, top right of the screen, there's a little profile icon and you can click on that to manually switch or it should automatically switch. But yeah, Okay. there wasn't a lot of, obviously we couldn't demo switching faces ourselves because we're not on the profiles. So yeah, that's all stuff we're gonna have to wait until we get our hands on and find out how that all works. But my Yeah.

11:47 overall view of it, of the home view, Thank you. was my initial impression was, ~ my goodness, it's tiny. I was expecting it to be much bigger. I was expecting a HomePod with a screen and what we got was a HomePod mini with an Apple watch. A large Apple watch. And I was like, actually I quite like that.

12:11 I like the square screen and I like the bezels again because I feel like it fits better in a home environment. It looks more like a photo frame and less like an iPad or a screen. ~ It looks more like an aura, ~ if you're familiar with the aura photo frame. And I guess they, I feel like they went square maybe to be different because everyone else is ~ rectangle.

12:33 Hm. Rectangle. Yeah. But also I like that it takes much less space. It has a much smaller footprint than even like the Echo Show 5, which is smaller in general, but that is wider. So for Yeah, yeah. fitting this into like nooks and crannies and corners on a kitchen counter or a bedside table. I think that size is quite nice.

12:59 it's vertically, it's taller than most other smart displays, but width-wise smaller. I really did not like, and there is a picture of this in my hands-on, the USB-C cable positioning. It sticks out the back like a little rat tail. And I was like, no, no, no, no, this just feels so unappley. Yeah, you can see it there and then there's another one where it's silver that you can see it a lot clearer. It might actually be in my other article.

13:28 wrote like seven articles, sorry. okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ~ No, no, it's all good. But it sticks out and you can see in that picture that it's quite high up. I I feel like it Yeah. should be under and it should have a little notch that it comes out and is much more elegant. Because Yeah. also if you're trying to stick this up in the corner of your kitchen or something, that's an extra like two inches it's going to have to stick out.

13:46 You just gotta drill the hole right in the island, in the middle of the island. just like the video. Okay, I'm sorry, Jason, you go ahead, go okay. Well, obvious I seems like the reason that the cord is where it is is because that bottom part is the ventilation for the subwoofer, right? Like there's a sp it is?

13:57 Yeah, but it's in the ventilation part. Yeah, Okay. it's stuck in the middle of all the little grills. It's weird. It's weird. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Okay. Remarkably though, It just felt wrong. Yeah, That doesn't make any sense, yeah. I don't even think that that's the weirdest thing about this device.

14:11 Now, I'm not Yeah. That is really strange. you see there? You can see it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. in the grills. Okay. Well, it I I was thinking as you were describing the experience. I'm like, I was at the WWDC when they did the Vision Pro announcement and we Yeah. had to like go and take our glasses and put them in there and they had to customize because there's so much about that device that is personal to you, matters, yeah.

14:29 right? Well, I was thinking like Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense for them to just let you pair your iPhone to do this whole exper I realize it's a little different 'cause did you really want your calendar to pop up in front of all these other journalists hahahaha or whatever? I understand all that.

14:41 But it does seem like it's a tough thing to really experience without Yeah. actually experiencing it the way it's it'd be like picking up an iPhone at the store is fine. You can tap through things. But until you have your mail and people are sending you messages, Yeah. it's hard to know what it's gonna be like.

14:55 And I've Yeah, yeah. I've been to that townhouse in Manhattan for like an iPad announcement and when the scary fast event with the MacBook Pros and stuff. So I'm trying to picture it. Like Apple put a lot of effort if they built out different apartments in that building. Yeah. But the thing I keep trying to figure out is why do you think that Apple is making this device? Like why does this particular device they went from zero really smart home care, other I mean, they call the home pod and the You Apple TV a home app ~ a home device, but they're kind of not.

15:28 Right. They exist in your home. They're not, I call them, they're content consumption devices with a side of smart home automation. Yeah. I mean I was telling Steven Side. that the only home thing I think about is like our level lock that we have on our front door has to connect to a home ~ Apple TV.

15:41 RIP. I listen, it mine still works. I don't care. I'm keeping it 'cause it looks like a lock and my daughter knows how to use it to get in the house. But as soon as I swapped out ho Apple TVs, I had to like go through this process to reset the whole thing. Apple has not figured this out and it I was as I was listening to you and Steven talk, it's like Steven is like, how do I figure configure and tinker with this thing?

16:02 Yeah that's not really what they want you to do. And it feels like Apple is like, you're gonna do zero configuration and tinkering with this thing. It's just gonna sit on the counter and it will know exactly what to do. W Yeah. okay, so my question really is, why is Apple making this? Because the people who want it want to do what Steven wants to do. And the people who Apple thinks would benefit from this, I don't know that they care.

16:24 So I think it's interesting that sort of being the question to just since this device launched amongst the tech press. I am really interested to see once the sort of mainstream press starts to pick this up because I really don't think it's designed for the classic Apple tech nerd. It just isn't. It is designed as a family device and it is designed or a household device because, know, obviously it could work for roommates as well.

16:49 But as the video showed, the family is the core. ~ demographic that they think this is going to fit. And I have a lot of friends who have families or different ages and stages of life, and they all love devices like the Facebook portal or the Skylight calendar or the Aura frames. I mean, there is a big market for some of these tech forward, but household centric devices that Apple has not got ~ a skin in the game for.

17:23 And this fits that space. This fits something that your Apple-focused family will buy for their house, to show their photos, to show the calendar ~ for shared interactions. And honestly, the thing that caught me the most about that video was that no one had an iPhone. everyone was using the device. And as a parent who does not like phones at the dinner table or at the kitchen counter at breakfast, you know, it's always, you get like, but mum, we just need to check what, whether my, you know, what time my class is tomorrow, what time my driving lesson is tomorrow, let's just pull out the phone.

18:03 And then one person pulls out the phone and everyone pulls out the phone. It's over. It's over. Whereas having a central device that you can use that for, that is like, we do not need our phones because if there's something you really need to do, we can do it with this. This is actually what smart displays have been good at to date because you can, or the current examples from Amazon and Google, you can ask questions like that too as well.

18:25 But the differentiator I think here is that this is an extension of your iPhone. So it does give you that more personal element. I mean, again, both Google's displays and Amazon displays have tried to do that and Google could do that. much better than they do. And maybe that's Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. coming. But Amazon struggles because you have to give it all your data, whereas this device And then see ads.

18:50 is just going to have it all. So that's who I think, I really do think this is not designed for you, Stephen. I think you're going to enjoy it. I'm getting three, yes. And it wasn't designed for all of the... for most of the creators that were there, the ones that probably use Unifi and Home Assistant and everything in the background, they're still gonna have fun with it and they're probably gonna Yes. Yeah.

19:14 find ways to do things on it that it really wasn't designed to do, at least not yet. But it is, I think, and this was my other piece I wrote last week was, I think its killer feature is gonna be its simplicity, that you don't Yeah, yeah. have to program it, that you don't have to figure out what widgets you want.

19:34 It just will present the information that you need or want in your household simply and easily. But we will see once we get time to play with it. So go Let me follow ahead. up real quick, 'cause we have a I'm this is gonna be painful for you 'cause I'm not gonna say the names of any of these products.

19:50 Google Nest Hub Max. Yes, we have one of those on our con We have one of them on and Yeah, she knows, she knows. we have two of the smaller ones. One is in our bedroom and Nest Hub. one and one is Yeah. in our bathroom actually. 'Cause it doesn't have a camera. doesn't have a camera. Right, exactly. Mm.

20:03 Although I do remember when they sent me a review unit and they're like, This will track your sleep. I'm like, How are you doing that? Exactly but it's like sonar or something, Radar, yeah, solely but yeah. radar. So but we have that thing sitting on our counter and it's wonderful. It just plays photos out of our favorites from Google Photos.

20:17 That's Yeah. great. The thing no one has ever once asked me to do is, Dad, it'd be really nice if I could see my calendar on this. Like no one wants that on that device. We use it Have you tried a skylight calendar or anything like that? No. No. I mean, I mean I haven't. we could, but like it plays Spotify for my wife when she's cleaning the house.

20:34 It plays timers. We set timers on it because forever you could set multiple timers on that and you couldn't do that on your Apple Watch, which is just insane to me. And it Yeah. shows photos, and then occasionally our twelve year old who doesn't have an iPhone will walk up to it and look up like Wikipedia articles, right? Like Yeah.

20:48 it does those things just fine. We don't need it to be personal necessarily. Yeah. So I and I feel like most of the people Who are in and I feel like I'm a little more tech forward than the average person, right? I write about it all the time. But I think like most people are closer to my thought process on this, which is we have a device that works.

21:05 If I wanted something like this, I probably already have that, or an echo show, or whatever. The audio it feels like the audience Apple is really going after is probably already satisfied with the Skylight Calendar or with one of these devices. And for Are you satisfied with your Google Nest Hub Max?

21:20 I know, It does exactly except for that I never remember the name of it. It's actually a fantastic speaker. Like it's a very but it's what, like seven years old now? You can't buy them anymore. Yeah, and you know what it still works gre. They're out of stock everywhere too. They're out of stock No one buys them.

21:31 No, you're right. I'm not arguing, but you know what? It still works. And the fun thing is I can even like shout at it and it will change YouTube TV on our television. Which is like wonderful. Yes, I know. Yeah. Like it does everything that we need it to do. So my point is simply for a th well, There's a lot of these already out there.

21:47 and for a three hundred dollar device that Yeah. wouldn't let me tinker and configure it more, I'm like, I mean, it'll probably sound better and it will be Apple. Which is all that's great. No, Yeah. Yeah. like I like all those things. But it's The Apple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. like we do all the other things that they demoed on our iPhones just very happily.

22:04 And then the the thing sits over there and plays photos most of the time from our trip to Alaska, right? Like Yeah, well, So I mean, but the fact that you like that device and use it is an argument for Apple making one. They just should have made it a few years ago. Mm hmm Yeah. Yeah. Seven years ago. Yeah.

22:18 And you know, the rumors are these, these have actually been ready for two years sitting in warehouses because it was waiting for Siri AI. And I agree, they should have, and Steven, I know you agree, they should have released this a long time ago. yeah. But I don't think, I was talking to an analyst about this and she was like, I said, Apple too late to the market?

22:40 And she said, they can enter the market whenever they want and do well. And I think she's right there. And also as much as I like to think every person in the world has smart devices and loves smart home, it is still a niche market. I think the statistics are somewhere like 40 % of all internet connected households has one smart home device, but that one smart home device could be It's a ring camera.

23:05 Lutron. It's like a Lutron switch or something. a smart display or yeah, I mean, Or a ring the it could be ring camera that came with the house when they bought it. yeah. Right, yeah, so there's That's what they bought, yeah. still growth in this space. And I also think there is room for Apple to dislodge Google Nest Hub Maxes or Echo shows from people's kitchen counters, both around privacy, because I think there's a lot of concern around devices that are always listening in your home and which company it comes from is a big issue that's becoming a bigger issue than it ever was.

23:35 And the Echo shows all have ads on them now, which are... infuriating. the Google has an opportunity to come in here and say, hey, we're doing this, here's our version and it's better. But they haven't. mean, the last one they did was the Pixel, which is back here binging the Pixel tablet. Yeah, I've got one of those right there actually.

23:57 and that was a great idea, but they just abandoned it. This is another issue with the Google stuff. So yeah, take, I mean, I think I totally understand your point. What you have works great and you have no need for this, specifically the personal element. And I also do think the personal element, whilst they're pushing it as their differentiator, I'm not sure how useful it will be in practice.

24:20 I don't see my daughter checking her text message from her secret boyfriend over dinner, over Right. breakfast. I just don't see that happening. But yeah. So I w do I think people are going to buy you have a skylight, Jim? it. I did test the Skylight Max, the big one. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I loved that. I thought it was a great device.

24:39 And that's the kind of, that's a mum tech device. Like all the mums I know want something like that. So my I'm I'm going to play my own devil's advocate in a second, but we have a skylight and we love it. it was a sponsorship like a year ago, but we do use it every day and my kids use it for like chore tracking, our calendars on there. And there's gonna be a weird choice that families have to make where this holiday season, if we're gonna buy a thing to put on the wall, are we gonna choose a Yeah.

25:06 skylight or we can choose a home view? And the home view does not do all of this kind of collaborative task stuff. No, yeah. Or like the skylight is also a picture frame, like I can send pictures and videos to it. So I still think like Apple has a long way to go in that regard. But you have to pay like 80 bucks a month, a year for the skylight, It's eighty bucks a year for some features.

25:22 don't you? Yeah. The calendar import stuff, Like if you want the chho the calendar report, which is really good. it is really good. And the reward feature, which is honestly what we use the most with our kids, Yeah, yeah. where like they clean the bathroom and they get stars, then they can redeem those stars.

25:37 That's an Yeah. eighty dollar a year subscription, which which kind of stinks. But the two use cases that I tried to make a valiant effort to defend this on last week's primary tech episode, Yeah you know, having a timer that's visual is at least going that's the time is good. I like the way they did that. Yeah, that interface is nice.

25:52 Yeah, and that's at least that's gonna cut down on The Google Nest Max Hub can do that as well though. Yes. I'm sure I a lot of things can show a timer visually, And it even has little but I'm just saying that'll be a good ~ feature. icons and pictures of what you're doing, but yeah. Yeah, and that is cool. But the one other feature, and I'm curious if you had any experience with this hands-on, is when it comes to recipes, you Hmm know, they show this recipe beaming from your phone to the thing, or you can ask the voice assistant.

26:17 But a situation that happened just yesterday, my daughter wanted to make overnight oats, and my wife had the recipe in the notes app on her phone. Yeah, I can't believe they don't have the notes up on this. And s and that would be an ideal situation That's just, yeah. where if there was a home view on the counter.

26:34 that my wife could just like tap her phone to it and the recipe from her note comes up on the home view. And Yeah. as far as I could tell, it does it seems like recipes get on this thing one of two ways. You ask the voice assistant for a random French toast recipe and it will go out to the internet and find one.

26:50 Well, that was through the text message. So that was text, That was r ~ okay. it said, because they were showing the personal context. So show me the recipe that mum texted me on French toast is what he said, or mum sent me. So, but that was probably a URL. So same thing still coming from Safari. Right, but it does not seem as far as you could tell, like if I have, as I'm sure many people do, a bunch of recipes on in the notes app of my phone, notes app. Yeah.

27:15 is there any way to get that onto the home view? Not as of now, no, because Hmm. for some reason, no Notes app on there. And that does seem like an oversight to me. I, know, and there is a lot of interesting aspects about what they decided to leave to include and what they didn't on this. And I'm sure it will change. I'm sure more things will come.

27:36 I don't think it's weird. It doesn't have an app store because none of the other smart displays have app stores. This is not something these devices are used as. They're not really. It's not a personal computing device that you sit there and tap through your apps. I think, yeah, the Safari, they don't, I actually asked, it doesn't integrate with Apple News's recipe app section Really?

27:59 either. It's just Safari at the moment. What? I thought that was the whole reason they added recipes to News Plus. Yeah, I know. I was like, I thought that was the whole, I thought that, me too. It's right there! You could save the recipes in Apple News. But I said, it use Apple News recipes? And they said, it uses Safari.

28:17 You know the whole Apple non-answer, we're not gonna say no, but we're gonna tell you what we just said. Ha ha Well and like I mean and it's cool like in the demo and even in your short, like it shows beaming a webpage and then it shows just full on safari And it goes, woo! Yeah, on the display. so you get the full, and so the whole recipe is there.

28:34 And then if you see in that bottom left, bottom right corner is a little icon. And when you've tapped on that, it switches views. So it's basically a view in Safari that goes from webpage to guided cooking. So that's what it's switching. Which is actually doesn't Safari have that like on the Mac or iPad right now, like if you go to a recipe page?

28:55 It's like the reader mode in Safari. Right. Yeah, I've never tried that, but there may be, yeah, you may have the option to do this on your phone too, or on your iPad. If you just want to buy an iPad. You can so like right now like I just went to an almond flour pancake recipe Yeah. and you can just you know, in if you go into reader mode, there's like a table of contents I guess.

29:18 Right, so it's doing, it's basically the same thing, although the difference is it's adding in the timers. It's kind of the same thing. The time the time that's cool. And that's neat, you just tap it and it'll do the timer for you. But that seems like a huge miss if like you the Apple News recipes, which is like a good interface.

29:32 I know, it is, it's good. Like the Apple News plus recipes is good. Like if it doesn't move to the home view, that's a miss. I So the Apple News is another one of the apps that's default on the device, although it's not on the device, it's in the CarPlay projection side of things, which I'm very interested to see how all of this works.

29:51 They didn't show any hands-on demos of the AirPlay, well, the CarPlay apps. Mm hmm. It was all the built-in apps, so very limited. But you do have Safari built in, so in theory, you can do anything you like. Yeah. Sure. Did do you 'cause I also saw the Apple T V app was built in and if that's a CarPlay app.

30:09 No, that's also a, that's a CarPlay one. So So you it's default, it's a default app on the device, but it's not built in, it relies on your phone. So hold on. So if my if a kid wanted to play Toy Story Five and it was like purchased in Apple T V. So it like in the Apple T V app. Is that not s they can't Yeah, don't, I'm not sure if it's the Apple TV and they didn't, cause they didn't demo it, if it's the Apple Hmm.

30:37 TV app or if it's the Apple TV service. Not confusing at all. which would be different things, correct? So my seven year old Or if it's just an Apple T V four K and you didn't know that. I mean, I'm assuming it's So my okay. the app. So yes, anything you downloaded, if you own Toy Story, you should be able to play it, but they didn't clarify, so I'm not sure.

30:58 So anything Mm. that works in Apple TV, you can airplay, but I don't see this as a video consumption device personally. I really don't feel like that's its purpose. No. But ~ the only place I see it could be useful for that would be recipes. I mean, you might want to Right. watch a YouTube version of a recipe or a TikTok.

31:18 That's my daughter makes all her cooking is done with TikTok recipes. So I would want that if I could. I mean the the Sure. the video thing though, I mean this feels pretty classic Apple. No, the iPad is for that. Right? Hehehehehe They're not gonna make this for three hundred dollars replace an iPad mini.

31:34 They're gonna be like, No, if you Right. wanted to give your kid a thing to watch Toy Story five, you have sixteen hundred screens in your house. This isn't going to be one of them, Yeah. but let me interest you in a in a nice little iPad. Yeah. Much more expensive one. I bet. Yes. my god, my cat just jumped in my window on the second story.

31:50 ~ What? No, Wait, like in real life, your cat right now? he's yelling at me from the window. Do you need to go get Do you need to go get the okay Okay. No, it's, he'll be fine. Well, I can't get him in. He's on the second story. Sorry. That's wild. Okay. Well they always land on their feet, right? That's the that's the thing.

32:06 So so like on the textbook page for the home view, it show I see now, Yes, see, there you go, yeah. apps available from iPhone. Yeah. But that's lo Okay, sure. But they they've yeah. So what does, you know, what does that logo mean? Is that the streaming service or is that the Apple TV access to everything app?

32:25 I I assume that they mean the Apple T V app since it's listed where apps available Yeah. from the iPhone. Right? Like I assume that that's what that means. Right, so you should be able to get anything that you pipe through Apple Yeah. TV, including... Yeah, the same thing with the music app and the podcast app.

32:37 Like the music app, Yeah. if you're not subscribed to Apple Music, I don't know what you can hear, but there's the there's the app. So they did say that you'll be able to use like Spotify or any third party audio app that's currently supported by CarPlay. Third party audio and video, although they pointed out there are no video apps currently supported by CarPlay.

32:53 I was gonna say Which makes sense since, you know, your car is not typically the place that you watch videos. No, but apparently that's something Yeah. they added at WWDC, the ability Yes. to do this. So in theory, like if you're sitting at a soccer match, you could sit and lean back and watch TV. Yeah. Well, and my kids, my favorite Well if the feature in the Tesla is that you can watch Netflix in the Tesla, Yes. Only when it's in but only when it's in park.

33:15 It's in Puck, right? park. But if it's any indication how long YouTube took to make a Vision Pro app, they probably will take a few years to make a CarPlay app, I would think. So although Yeah, I said. it'd be nice, like the YouTube on the home view for recipes for cooking. Anyway. Yeah, I do feel like YouTube is, but you could, I mean, you could go to Safari and do it, but I can't imagine the Hmm. Yeah, not great. Yeah, experience is going to be great.

33:36 So this is all stuff we will find out once we get to play with it though, yeah, yeah. So we'll for sure. we'll yeah, we'll talk once it's in hand, maybe we could talk again. But I need to get your opinion on the Apple Home Collection. Because this was you rumored LG Schneider, all this stuff. I was actually just this morning looking for what other home kit secure video cameras are available today?

34:01 And I don't know if you've noticed this, but it seems like there's less and less. Hardly any, yeah. Over time it's like Akkara and that's it. ~ I don't know why like Eve. I know Eve is out there and like but Tapo used to make a bunch more and ~ like Yuffie has a few. Yuffie has a few, but it's it was unfortunate because I was trying to compare like price wise. But if you just even we take Accara and Eve, ~ and then for door locks like Schlag and stuff, like Yeah.

34:26 Apple Home Collection, do you feel like it is a compelling collection? Like would you choose any of the Apple home collection devices over some of the other ones? Because like I can get an ACARA video doorbell that's two and a half K, home could secure video for ninety nine dollars. Yeah. Or do I have to pay what is it, Have you seen two hundred?

34:48 the look of the acara door bellow? It's I have it I have it I have it like a giant Mars bar on your front door. Yeah. Listen, now wait a minute now wait a minute. Now you could get the Ha ha ha ha! well wait, which Designed by a twenty year old single guy in Silicon Valley, right? That's what she said. Okay.

35:04 Yes, yes, yes. Sure. Well that one's designed in China but yeah. Well well well hold up. 'Cause a car has like a bunch of the video doorbells, and I know. So the difference one one of them is not good. here is the Apple polish. And I know people are like, ~ this was made by LG. No, no, this was designed by Apple. They made that very clear.

35:22 By Apple. This is the Akar one that I by the Jen. There you go. Yes. Doesn't it look like a Mars bar? Is this the you were talking about? It's fine. It's fine. It's really chunky. I actually did a review of the three current doorbells that have AI text description recently, and I have all three doorbells on my front door.

35:39 So they're next to each other. And so there's the Google Nest, the Ring 4K and the Acara. I love Acara stuff, it's great. Yeah. But it doesn't look good. They do not have the design down for something that you're Do you think the Apple home one looks good? gonna put. I do, and do you know what it doesn't have on it?

35:57 And what none of their products have on? Are logos. I'm like, hate Logos, logos, sure. Now I was so this logos on devices stuck in my home, especially ones stuck on my front door. Yeah. I get it. It's not high tech, like it's not cutting edge. ~ my goodness, the cat's back. Yeah, I've been hearing the cat.

36:18 We need the home view to get the cat off the thing, yeah. It's not, ~ yeah, these aren't like really tech forward devices that do wild and weird things, but they did nail all the basics, I think. And the design, it's high tech looking, but it's not garish. So I think it will appeal. do think it's hard to get these devices to look good in homes. So I like the fact that they went with a cohesive look.

36:48 So if you buy them all, kind of have a sort of a lot of money. Sure. And spend two thousand dollars on it's a lot of money. It's a lot. They are expensive. mean, doorbells, as you said, you can buy for $99 now. So this one is absurdly expensive. It does have two cameras. And I do Yes. really like the light, motion sensing light.

37:06 okay. Yeah, I think the cohesive look is the selling point. The Right. prices are a little crazy. They're kind of like, well, they're very similar to the Google Nest products, actually, price-wise. And you're also getting, and I kind of did a deep dive into all of this the end of last week, you're everything that Apple Home offers.

37:29 which is actually something that a lot of products haven't adopted. Acara is probably the best at bringing most of the features that Apple Home offers in, but you do have like thermostats have Apple Adaptive Temperature, Clean Energy Guidance, the door lock has UWB Hands Free, which only two other door locks offer right now.

37:50 Schlage and a cara, yeah. I have them both. So I kind of see them So but like almost like reference devices as well. Like this is what you can get. with Apple homes, What it the complete experience. But they're very expensive and they They're expensive. don't, I don't think the look is gonna appeal to everyone, but also if you don't like something techie looking, you don't really have many other options.

38:13 I was disappointed in the door lock that it has such a big bulky back housing. Why Yes. they didn't just do a level like thing, know, and level was right there for them. That was weird. ~ two Yeah. two questions. So on the LG video doorbell specifically, it has the two cameras, one's pointing down, one's pointing out. Does the one pointing out, is it Move.

38:35 vertical or horizontal in aspect ratio? ~ I thought you were going to ask. Did they even show a live video feed for it? They did, Because I have the but they showed it of the package. They didn't show it of a person when I saw a demo. Right. Because that would that would be cool because landscape. So I'm guessing the top one is landscape and the bottom Yeah. Okay.

38:56 is vertical because you're just looking straight down. That's a genuinely new and different feature because Yeah. most video doorbells have to go with the tall, ultra wide that kind of, view. yeah, and it gives you that sort of slightly distorted fish eye type lens look. Yeah. Right. And actually the wide, cause most originally doorbells did the wide aspect ratio.

39:16 Right. Can't see the packages, And then people, then they realized people want to see the packages on the porch. yeah. But yeah, the wide aspect ratio is actually better for security because you see more of people coming from side to side and see more of your front door. So yeah, that the combination is useful.

39:30 mean, Eufy had a doorbell that does the two, that has the two cameras in. ~ Right. But yeah, this is a much sleeker looking device and it has a little mount on the back so it's actually sticking out from your house. It's not flush on your ~ okay. wall. But $250 is a lot and it's only 2.5, It's a lot. Okay, so that that's the other thing I wanted to say.

39:50 which was a surprise. L Jen, this is driving me insane because we have asked for HomeKit Secure Video higher resolutions for years. Yeah. And Apple at WWDC announced four K HomeKit Okay. Secure Video and then their first foray back into the smart home, they released a two and a half K camera. So do you think maybe this has been a development for two years as well and they just...

40:14 ~ sure. But here's and here's my other question if you have any inside knowledge. I don't know because the Apple four K Home Kitscure video, I've talked to several brands, and all of them say that their current cameras on the market will not support the higher resolution in Home Secure Video. I don't know why this can't just be a feature update because my Accara video doorbell is two and a half K in the Accara app.

40:36 And Yeah. if maybe it's a play that they want you to pay for the Accara subscription and not Home Kitscure video, but why why no four K? That's my qu do you have any idea why no four K anywhere? So Apple released a new HomeKit Secure Video spec at WWDC. And that is the spec they have to adopt in order to enable the 4K.

40:58 Okay. And I don't know enough about the development process of camera to understand whether that maybe is something that they just can't retroactively do or whether they're just, well, this is a new feature we could add and get more people to buy us new cameras. And so we're going to do this going down the road.

41:15 I would be surprised if it was the latter. I think most companies would want to add value to their existing products, the ones that are in this space, because there's only a couple of them that really offer. Right. But no, don't know exactly. I don't have any inside knowledge in terms of why Mm. Apple did this. do think, and I did say this in my piece last week, and this is entirely speculation, but you know the matter camera spec is basically built on HomeKit Secure Video.

41:44 It's the same idea. I honestly think these cameras will probably support matter Matter? down the line. They have thread. They They have thread have... and they don't support 'cause Apple Home doesn't support matter cameras right now at all. No, because there are a few things in the matter camera spec that don't line up with HomeKit secure video yet, but I think they're still being developed.

42:11 I Mm-hmm. do think that, and then if there's support for matter cameras, then obviously you could use these in other ecosystems and it gives more flexibility and also means there'll be more cameras that would work with HomeKit in the future. That's true. That's true. So I think it's a watch this space thing.

42:30 But right now, if you want the whole experience, the Apple Home collection. I mean, Expensive. if you're a Silicon Valley family setting up your first home, there you go. You just Sure. click buy. I mean, that's what it's for, right? It's all in one. Yeah. I feel like the packaging is for a very select market.

42:51 The individual devices, I think I could see the door lock being popular. ~ because it's UWB, ~ which I think is big selling point. If you haven't tried UWB, Jason yet, you need to try it. It's good. It is good. Well, my the thing I keep thinking, okay, so I I mean, I get it. All the extr all the home collection devices look great.

43:14 I I and I know why Apple had to have something, because if they're going to convince you to buy this as your centerpiece, then there have to be accessories available, right? And like w Right, exactly. I mean, we're like I think we're actually fairly normal in the sense that like we have some Google stuff, we have a Some echoes, but th literally the only reason we have Echo Dots is because we have the LED ones and th those are alarm clocks for our kids.

43:35 Like we didn't Yeah. buy them because we're like, hmm, which smart home system should we be in, right? And then in my office Yeah, Yeah, and you probably got them for 25 bucks too. Yeah. Yeah. they're cheaper than air they're cheaper than air tags, I was thinking. I bet I got four of them for a hundred bucks, right? But in like in my b when I did my office, Steven told me to put in Lutron switches.

43:52 So I did, so I can control those things. So I and it doesn't bother me to have three different systems in our house because we never like all the ~ echoes are on home or on kid mode so they won't shout ads at us all the time, right? Like anyway, so but I think for a lot of people, the idea that they're going to start with a home view and then they're going to spend an extra whatever you said, two thousand dollars to buy all these if you've already got a ring doorbell or if you've already got these things, it kind of Yeah.

44:18 feels like Apple approached this from like the opposite direction. Like the home device everybody wanted is please just make a router again. I know, I know. I even wrote that article and I'm like, Like just make a router and then go from there. And it seems like they're like, no, no, no. Yeah. It's like they have this entire system.

44:32 yes, please, Apple, fix the problems. So my I'm curious though. Everything about the home view to me feels like the Vision Pro. Like I even I said that already once. It and it feels I know, It's not $3,000, Jason. but compared to some of its competitors, it is a lot, right? It is more than what most people are thinking they're going to spend.

44:55 Because you then also have to spend a lot of money on all the things to make it worthwhile. No one's gonna put this on the counter just for recipes. Like that's Yeah. insane, right? Like I'm not wrong, am I? No. I think the two use cases that they pushed it for, which is ~ entertainment and the personal family management side.

45:18 You can do all of that without smart home devices. But the video doorbell I could see being the biggest reason to, mean, the video, that's the only thing that Apple doesn't have currently in the home, as we discussed earlier, that you can easily view your video doorbell when someone rings the doorbell through.

45:35 The Apple TV works, but then you have to be in the living room where your Apple TV is, or it has to be on. So Yeah, yeah. I think the video doorbell and probably the door lock are the two biggest selling points here. And I agree, if you have a ring doorbell, you're probably not swapping it out for this.

45:50 If you don't have a video doorbell though, this might convince you to get one, I think is Apple's play. For the... six hundred dollars for the display and the video Total, total and dormo. the doorbell. The combination, yeah. Well, if you buy this and then you're like, ~ what else can it do? I mean, that's how the Echo took off is people bought these Echo smart speakers and were like, ~ this is neat, I wanna do more. And then Mm.

46:12 they went and bought smart bulbs or then they went and bought a smart thermostat, because then they could control it with their voice. Like that was how the Echo became a popular device originally. So yes, Apple is quite late to this game, but as I said earlier, there's still a large slice of people that have not even stepped into the smart home for various reasons.

46:33 think cost is a big one. Not seeing the value, like any benefit is the leading reason. And I think here with this device, Apple is trying to say, here, look, here's what you can do. Here's the benefit. I don't know if it's gonna be successful. think, I don't think you're wrong, Jason, in the Vision Pro comparison in terms of whether this could potentially be a flop because people just don't understand why they want it or the people...

46:59 who wanted it now don't want it because it's not what they were expecting and the people they're selling it to, are they going to really understand the value? I mean, this is one of the hardest things about the smart home is trying to explain to people what the benefits are. I mean, it's my entire job ~ and I tell you it's hard.

47:17 Ha ha ha. It's good for you that it's difficult because they are going to keep paying It's good for me, it's difficult. you forever. But I think the Employed forever. That's it. Yeah. price point could be at Xavier. Yeah, The price yeah. point could be at Saving Grace. It's cheaper than I was expecting.

47:32 I don't know it's going to stay cheap. So I genuinely think if you're interested, you might want to buy it now while they clear out the warehouse of two years worth Mm. that apparently they had, because I could see this getting more expensive. But I think the price point is compelling for families having this little, it's a beautiful photo frame too.

47:53 mean, people spend a lot of money on those auras. Those are expensive. and it has the exact same I'm yeah. features. The one my last question, 'cause I know you gotta go. I'm trying to figure out where I'm gonna put it because Yeah. we have an island and unlike Apple's video, I'm not gonna drill a hole in the granite.

48:09 But any People do actually have outlets in their islands, I have to say. Yeah, Well and I have Alet in the I like in the middle of it though? I've seen that. You have like a little thing that comes up with all the outlets on. ~ anyway. Yeah. Like the Apple store tables where you like wave your hand and then the thing rolls up. But I like where it 'cause if I put it where the outlets are around the counters, it's not near the stove where you would want to use it to cook.

48:31 I know. And if you want to put it like we have a home pod mini in the kitchen, but it's on a little shelf like kinda off to the side and you wanna be able And is it white or black? Is to see stuff. White. I have a white home pod mini. it now off white? Well, it's far enough where it's not it's still white.

48:45 My white HomePod is gross because it was in I'm sure we'll be yeah. the kitchen and it got all greasy. So I do like that this is aluminum because you can Right. True. wipe it clean. I think that's something I've really struggled with with kitchen devices. They're so gross. I'm putting it next to my stove.

48:57 So have you decided where you're gonna put it? Like do you have you spotted out your spot? Okay. Okay. I have outlets right next to my stove. That's where I want to do it. ~ Okay. But the downside of that, and this is probably to your point, is then the interaction by the rest of the family won't work because they don't come to the stove. So I might have to do like a ~ Right. You just gotta put one on the wall, one on the stove.

49:19 week by the stove and then a week in my other Yeah, yeah. spot where I put the smart displays, which is on the kitchen counters. But I have a long counter like this with a wall, so it'll go by the wall. And that's where my kids, the Google Nest Hub Max, they would watch. Teen Titans go until one day it decided to just only play in Spanish.

49:37 So we had to stop. But yeah, It's a feature. It's a feature. Sponsored by Duolingo. ~ that's it. Yeah. Stephen, you know well placement's going to be an issue for a lot of people, Yeah, yeah. I think. Like, where is this a good spot that's not going to get knocked off? You know, Steven, the device I hear that's really good for cooking is the Vision Pro.

49:53 I'm just I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding I'm just kidding I'm just kidding. timers every every pot. Jen, I just before you go, Don't do that! I just want to show you one last thing. I was inspired by HomeView and I didn't want to wait. So I vibe coded ~ a new iPad app that lets me put ~ home view widgets Look at that! That's fantastic.

50:07 and live camera view and you can fit more than nine widgets. So ~ so anyway. Yeah. You can. And does that just stay or you have to swipe to get to it? No, well it's an app, so it'll just stay, Okay. but you can also swipe for multiple pages of controls. So I Okay, so now we didn't answer your teaser question and I have like two more minutes.

50:25 Why Yeah, yeah, yeah. should this not just be an iPad? Jason, you think this should have just been an iPad, Listen, I didn't Well, I don't think I said that specifically. right? Everyone on the internet has been saying that. What I think I said was what I think is well, No, no. although the pixel tablet with the base stand is actually kinda nice. I have one right there.

50:40 But like I just think most of the things you could they didn't make a compelling case for anything you could do on this other than the home kit secure video, which doesn't bother me at all because I don't have any of that, that you couldn't just do on your Yeah, iPhone or your iPhone. yeah, yeah. And I totally get that argument.

50:54 And if you have your needs fully met by those two devices, great. But to me, I think when the iPad came out, that was an argument, was like, why I can't do anything on this that I can't do on my iPhone other than it's just a slightly bigger screen. So I just, feel like this device is another interface for interacting with devices and apps.

51:19 some apps, limited number of apps that you use on your phone or your iPad, but you don't want to be always pulling your phone out or pulling your iPad out Yeah. in this setting, in the kitchen or in your bedroom, not having to have your iPhone in your bedroom. Like some people don't want their iPhones in their bedrooms.

51:38 This gives you That's true. most of the basics you might still want without having to have your phone, without access to TikTok, without Yeah. access to Candy Crush. And then, know, this is what Apple's all about, right? More screens to do the things you want to do. So it seems like a natural extension to me of something where you've got a screen, you can do everything you already did on other devices, but it's a different interface and it is always plugged in, Right.

52:04 it is always accessible, and it isn't in a drawer or under the couch. And there's no battery that's And if there's no battery that swells if it's plugged in. gonna die. ~ So... It's the always on, always accessible element to it is something that neither of those two devices offer. And I think that is a selling point for this.

52:23 If that's a use case that you have come across where you're like, ~ I want to change the thermostat and my phone's dead. Okay, yes, you can get up and go and do it on the wall. And it has fast user switching. And it has fast user switching. The iPad does not. Yes. And fast user switching. It's the only Apple device with it.

52:36 That the multi-user device is obviously, and maybe they'll bring that to the iPad and maybe you'll That would be amazing. be able to... skin your iPad and into a home view down the line. the Be nice. multi-user switching will be definitely feels like a selling point because especially for families that don't necessarily want iPads, you've got a device that's a multi-user device in your home.

53:01 So ~ yes, can you do everything on this that you can do on your iPhone and your iPad? Yeah, you can. I can see, I definitely understand that argument, but I also just feel like This is a screen that people, especially families or a household, will find some use for, but I think it's gonna be like most smart displays.

53:21 You will find one or two things that you use this for, and that's pretty much all you do. Or you won't find a use at all and you'll send it back. So it's because every home is different, and this is the challenge with a smart home, finding use cases that are gonna work for you regularly enough for you to want to invest in it. So that's gonna be the...

53:42 the whether this thing sinks or swims is if those use cases really do come across once you get them in your home and start playing with it. Well, I'm excited to get three of them. So, Jin, thanks so much for coming on. We'll have you back sometime and talk about smart home. Thanks, Jin. Wonderful, thank you, great Thanks, Jen.

53:58 to be here.