From Banking to Brushstrokes: Lara Julian’s Layered Journey

0:35 Welcome to the Art Business. I'm David Bellingham, the Programme Director of the MA Art Business at the Sutherford Institute of Art in London, and today I'm somewhere a little different, at 100 Kenston High Street, in the exhibition of the abstract and conceptual artist Lara Julian. Born in Siberia, Lara trained first in international relations and banking before terming to painting.

0:57 She began to study seriously in 2009, while still working in a bank in Novosibirsk, forgive my pronunciation, continued at two art schools in Russia, including individual classes with the head of the art department at the Pedagogical University of Siberia in 2012 and 2013, but then trained at the School of Visual Arts in New York.

1:20 And at the Slade School of Fine Art in London. Her paintings are built from long vertical lines, layered over months and sometimes years, and grounded in the Munsell colour system. The work has recently been shown at Bonham's in the group exhibition Echoes of Stillness in February 2025, where her paintings sat in dialogue with Tantra, Jane, Jane, and Ritual Art of India at the Saatchi Gallery, at Avicyn Gallery, at Gallery 8 in St James's, and at Zebra 1 Gallery in Hampstead.

1:54 Painting of her sold as the highest bid at a Marie Curie charity auction at the Royal Academy of Arts. In August, she spoke to students at the University of Westminster. This month, she gave a keynote at the Savile Club called Colourers Capital. In a moment, we'll get up and look at some of the paintings.

2:12 We'll also talk about how a painter with a banker's training builds and runs an art business of her own. Lara, welcome, and thank you for letting us into the exhibition.

2:23 Hello, David. Hello, everyone. What a wonderful introduction. So, I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for coming and I am delighted to host you in my exhibition. And yes, one of my paintings you can see at the back, this is Unfolding Expansion.

2:39 Okay. And you've told the story of leaving banking many times, so let me come at it sideways. What did four years in a banking novicesk teach you that the slave never could?

2:53 Novosibirsk is a capital of Siberia, which is, I think that Novosibirsk's suburb has 4 million people. So it's quite a large industrial city. And in the UK, I would compare it to Manchester or something like that that generates, not manufactured and stuff. So, well, I love my time in banking because banking taught me discipline.

3:17 It taught me communication skills. It taught me to focus. And to be determined. It's really important because in the banking industry, you're all the time you're under pressure. You need to talk to different people. You need to negotiate your agreements. And this ability to focus when you have a lot of different forces around you and you need to really focus on work.

3:46 For art, it's important regardless of what is happening. In London, we always have the freeze, a lot of events. But work in the studio is a priority. And banking was very helpful to understand what the priority is. Also, banking is more analytical side. You know, it's numbers, working with numbers, it's logic.

4:08 I think it is still reflected in my work. Because in my work, I use months of color system as a reference. And I use a lot of also art history references. So my work is very grounded. And there's a lot of layers of meaning in it. And it's also super important, it's coming from the painting side.

4:23 Yeah, and you grew up with a painter father, an artist, an art historian and a mother, and a poet grandmother. What did the art world look like from Siberia? And when did you first see it as a market as well as a vocation?

4:38 Wonderful question, because in Siberia we don't have an art market still, I think. It's like, you know the numbers. We've been to the London Art Conference recently, and the center of the art world, of course, is New York or London. So, in Siberia, I was lucky to observe my father when he opened the first private gallery in my hometown, in Novosibirsk.

5:04 So, he was quite successful at the time. It was a time of perestroika, and he had a lot of private clients, you know, bankers, you know, new money. and they wanted portraiture. So it was a really little pond. It's called like an art market for Siberia. And then my family, they migrated in Spain. My father was offered to open a gallery in Barcelona.

5:27 But at the time, I didn't know a lot of art markets because also Russia is quite separated from the rest of the world, probably still. So I didn't have that impression that I have like now in London or in New York. So unfortunately, my knowledge about art market in Sevilla was quite limited. But I had this desire to become an artist. And then when I came to New York, the highlight of living in New York was meeting an artist called Ahmed al-Sudani.

6:00 At the time when I met him, he was represented at one of the largest galleries in New York. And he was 45 and he was a refugee from Syria. And at the 45, he was a huge success as well. So his paintings were sold for half a million. Phillips and that was an inspirational story for me and I've learned from I've been to his studio and I saw that he has like massive paintings I was really inspired by that and, I saw this other side and I saw that how art market actually works because he told me that he doesn't work just for himself everything is sold beforehand and.

6:44 And the amount of work he creates and consistency that he has, and he inspired me to go and pursue my studies. So I studied in New York when I came, but he said that you need to do more. You need to really focus on studies. And I took it seriously. And at that time, it was a game changer for me. So I understand that this is serious.

7:08 You know, it's not only the work, but it's also the understanding what this work means and where this work should go. And when I came to London in 2015, I continued my studies, it was super important. But also, I started to exhibit straight, almost straight when I came to London. And I took part in lots of different group shows, Shoreditch, some funky galleries.

7:34 And I really wanted to understand the connection with the viewer, the response, and to build this relationship and how people react to my work. So it was super important to learn how you can build your relationship with the viewer, because my paintings, it cannot exist without a viewer. We're all connected. It's an integral system.

7:54 And since 2015, I started exhibit and I continued my studies and I started an exhibit. And then the breakthrough came after my exhibition at the Contemporary Art Gallery in 2019. Because the Contemporary, it was a social in Mayfair. And that gave my work visibility and bigger sales followed. However, my sales actually started almost straight when I came to London.

8:24 So 2016, 2015, 2019 was a super intense time for me. And it was a time when I studied, I exhibited, and I produced the work. And at the time also I was sorting my legal status at the UK. So it was an enormously stressful time for me. However, now I'm in a better shape because everything is planned. I have consistent sales and I would really, you know, encourage artists, you know, to start connecting these views to creating the work, but also having the worker priority.

9:01 And yes, after decontemporary, when the biggest sales follow, now I have more understanding what art market is and how to be a part of it.

9:12 Yeah. Should we go and have a look at our first painting?

9:15 Absolutely.

9:16 So I'm wondering if there's another one next door. Is that on the right one? Yes. Okay, so this is entitled to Nimbus Petition. It's all on canvas. Laura painted it between 2025 to 1026. For anyone listening, by the way, rather than watching, I'd like Laura to describe what we're looking at. And then let's have a look closer at it and look at what changes as we get closer and what you can only see up close. So maybe you could talk about it from a distance, then we'll ask Olivia to come further forward.

9:56 So this painting is the largest painting in this exhibition. So it wasn't finished, especially for this project. And when you look from the distance, you see this furball and violet and green colors mixed with golden. So, it is called the hails of Titian, or also it means the cloud, and if you know, I was inspired by Titian, Titian is one of the great artists, and we, a lot of artists take inspiration from him.

10:31 When I thought about this painting and what I want to say, it was about transferring this aura into the, not even on the canvas, but beyond the canvas, so transferring this energy. And a halo is also consisting of multiple colors, so it's not like a rainbow. But if you look at Tishon's work, it's more in golf.

10:53 And you know what the latest works? He started to make a circle around the head of people. He made it like a flooring and merging with a background. So basically, when a person stands, the halo is around him. But this painting is about when the person actually left the space and this energy is still there.

11:17 So this painting is constructed from 60 layers of paint, as you know. And in my work, I use a lot of different pigments. So when you look from the distance, it's like a vibrant field of margenza, thin, golden, emerald green, and some dark gray tones. But when you come closer, you can see that there's an enormous amount of labor invested in it. So each brushstroke has its own place at the canvas.

11:47 And also the painting has a sculptural element in it. If you look at the painting, you can see that this is actually some. The underpainting is a lot of like a circle movement, so it is probably almost like a halem, and it also has some texture in it, which also made with a palette knife. The underpainting, it was all scratched and applied, and then a lot of brush strokes with a thin paint was light, and then finished with a golden, almost transparent golden.

12:21 Things. And you can see that the orange shines through. The painting for me is a balance. So it's a lot of, I work with rhythm, I work with the composition and orange, you can see it's like sparkles, it goes, it has this rhythm, it moves all around again. It's almost like Chagall. If you look at his paintings, you can see the red travels.

12:42 So I reference my work a lot to my favorite painters. And I always, I keep coming back to Kandinsky, to Rothko, to Chagall. But this particular painting was inspired by Titian, of course. And I still love his work. I mean, I would encourage everyone to come back to the National Gallery and look at his work again and again.

13:04 Absolutely. And then, people don't realize this, but in my field, in ancient art, you see, like all paintings of Pompeii with mythological scenes, many of the divinities have a halo. And so the early Christians borrowed that, and what they called it, the nimbus, which showed that they were God, is described in literary sources and poetry.

13:24 And then the Christians decided to use the same kind of effect on their saints and all Christ and Mary assumptions. Shall we go and have a look at the fourth stage?

13:34 Yes, please. It's another painting. It's a new piece that I've just come in with also for this project. And so, I absolutely love my paintings with, grey and black because they are darker pigments, I would say, because to me, working with color, and at some point, I was calling myself a color technologist because I'm referencing Mansell's color system, and I've used coding for my names, and it was easier because the codings were speaking about hue, saturation, and value.

14:10 So it was easier to call them like this. For example, their name could be YR9A6A. So it means that the first pigments I used are yellow and red. And then it was the Q, saturation and value. Because in my work, as I mentioned, I used a lot of different pigments. And it was easier for me to structure the names to understand which pigments I used.

14:37 And also, I thought it was easier for my collectors to see which pigments I use in order to, if they like particular areas, it's easier for them to collect certain pigments. But I don't use it anymore because I think that's, for me, I just...

14:57 Yeah, and so you used to name your artists, as you just said, as barcodes. And more recently, the titles have become more evocative, like here, the fourth state, the nimbus of tissue we just looked at, There's also Velvet House, we'll see in a moment, and Astral Night, the poetic title. So what prompted that shift from the kind of more mathematical path to these more poetic, art historical titles?

15:20 And also, we started our conversation, we were sitting next to the Unfolding, Expansion, also one of the metaphorical names, which has an expansion on the knees. And the expansion, it's because the painting is not an explosion, it's not limited, so it's like unfolding and moving beyond the canvas, almost like with the waves that are touching people standing in front of it.

15:43 And this is a fourth state, because the fourth state is, you know, from physics, it's when it has gas, water, I guess, well, like more rough, like a stone or something like that. But this is referred to as plasma, which is something, I would say, very liquid, maybe not like blood, but something really not liquid, but.

16:10 Not a stone, it's something in between, so it's almost like a stale. And in my work also, I reference Rothka because I see my paintings as windows or portals that transfer people into other dimensions as this painting. And it's important to me when the viewer collects and connects to my artwork and they start thinking.

16:33 And these names, actually my collectors, they love the names because it immediately, transfers them into this kind of reference and story behind the painting, which is super important so it's easy for them to understand the painting. And they like to travel with this portal. It's amazing.

16:55 And how do you catalog your own work? Was the coding type also like an inventory system?

17:01 I really care about my inventory and I catalog my work. Every painting has a, fact sheet with a description. They have certificate of authenticity, everything. I work on a lot with Google Drive, but, I photograph my paintings every time and I revise the collection when the paintings are sold. And recently I was offered by Mr Moore, our consultancy, to use, an electronic tracking system, whether you need to be solved, whether the printing goes, and I'm going to use it, which I think is a great idea.

17:45 But it's not like blockchain?

17:47 No, it's just electronic, almost like a certificate, and it goes into a repo system.

17:54 Into a red-white sister.

17:57 So, yeah, so quite amazing. I think it's because of the new and novel, and I'm happy to use it for a couple of my work.

18:06 Yeah, so we can look at another painting. Now, you've already referred to the painting that was behind us when we were seated at the start. So, we've got Velvet Hours or Acid All Night.

18:17 Which would you like to see? Let's start with Velvet Hours.

18:30 So, Laura, show us where this one is in the process. So, how many layers so far, what comes next, which tools you use for what? You described building up to 60 layers of paint, sometimes over several years. What does that time scale mean for the economics of the studio? Trying to relate it to business as well. Roughly how many major canvases leave your studio in a year?

18:56 How do you price a painting that takes three years?

19:02 Well, first of all, yes, paintings are hugely late, pretty melting. And I think that art, to me, I structure my work in a very different way. So selling large pieces or mid-sized pieces is not my only source of income. I also teach. I create exhibitions. And I love when the paintings they wait for the run of home and the best home so I'm not in a rush and I have inventory of different sizes inventory is not much it's about quality not quantity so, I care and I produce paintings I try to be productive in the use and take inspiration, so for me it's really a lot of work and I devote it completely So every painting, starts from the texture.

19:54 So I have a certain algorithm of how I work. They have all paintings. They have a sculptural element in it. So it can be different sculptural element. It could be a surface stretched with a palette knife, like very thick layers of paint. This paint, you can see this has a very small...

20:11 Completely different texture from the tissue.

20:13 Yes, very small, small particles. it's almost like a dust or like some parts and then it was covered with a, with the darker tones. Like here, the colors, like red and green and golden, they're emerging from the background. So this painting is shown here, I would say, in a dialogue with the Titian's halo because they talk, they build a dialogue.

20:46 There can be a dialogue in the color palette here. And the Velvet Hour, because it's a state, it's like almost, My paintings, all of them, they have this tactile quality of them. So the people, when they look at them, they want to touch them. And amazingly, when you see this surface, when you see how light reflects from the surfaces, it actually makes paintings quite alive.

21:11 And also for me, for example, when I had this exhibition at the AVFC Gallery, the exhibition was inspired by fractals. And Fractal, we also have in this show, is one of my most well-known paintings. You can have a look. Yes, yes, we can. Fractal, you can find it online. So, these paintings are here, they are in a couple, this is Fractal.

21:41 So, Fractal also in a dialogue with this unfolding expansion, because it has an expansion, an expanding movement. Underneath so it was structured with the texture was produced with a palette knife and then it was covered with a very bright orange background and mixed with a canyon red and then it was covered with a dark blue and a green and then it was covered with a, some shades of pearl white, and this painting uses.

22:13 Shiny pigments, which also makes it ultra-contemporary, which I would say that my paintings, my works are ultra-contemporary because they don't have a figure or a face or something. So also, in my work, like fructose, for example, I refer to signs, and I would say that some paintings are more like monochromatic blocks.

22:34 Like here, for example, you can see the veil of Nelson. So it's more like a monochromatic dark blue, mixed very deep blue, covered with very tiny brushstrokes of golden oats. So it's almost like a scientific approach to color. It's like when you talk about Yves Klein blue or something which is actually when the color approached through signs.

23:01 And also fractal is coming from the signs. So it's the smallest pattern in the universe that repeats itself. And my paintings are quite repetitive. That is why they're labor-demanding because it's a lot of layers coming and coming back and a lot of this. And also, my big pieces, I rotate them all the time because they don't have horizon in there. And I work each centimeter of the painting separately.

23:25 So I work very close. Then I go a few meters. And then I come back. Then I rotate. And then I use the letter to blind when I need to put, like, exact brushstroke somewhere. So I go there and do it. And the paintings are very thoughtful. They are not like Jackson Pollard when he's, like, or some, like, gestural artist.

23:45 Like they throw the painting, they throw the paint on the canvas. So these are more meditative, logical, mathematical, and repetitive. And also, they speak to me. So their work in the studio is very intimate, so they speak to me. So I apply, I have an idea of the painting, I apply it on canvas, then I actually, it speaks to me, and then I start in a dialogue.

24:09 And there are two processes in the studio, super important. One is how painting is made, and the second, which is most important, what does this painting mean, what you actually want to say. And this is where the painting starts the dialogue, and then the name is born. And you cannot force a name. You have an idea, have an idea.

24:28 As a color technologist, I have an idea. But then when the painting speaks to me, the name is born, and the meaning is born, and the referencing. And for me, all layers of this process are super important.

24:43 Standing in front of all of these, the word I'd reach for isn't systematic. In 2021, you said your aim was not to express your own emotions, but to set up combinations that were objectively grounded. You just described that in another way, a more scientific way. Other writers, however, called the word expressionist and even spiritual.

25:02 So we've got a bit of a binary there about scientific and spiritual working together. I guess it's a little bit like the neo-Platonists in the Renaissance that were matching geometry and science with spiritual experience and art, as it were. So where do you stand now? Has the practice moved from system towards feeling, or is the feeling the viewer's business rather than yours?

25:27 It's a wonderful question, David. Would you like to go to see another painting in the meantime? Let's go to look at the method and phrase. This is one of the pieces I've also finished this year. So I totally agree with you on the evolution of the artist. So as you said, yes, some critics say that it could be like an expressionist.

25:57 But I think that I like to think about and really have this idea of exploring, being an explorer, and also I'm closer to Albert, Sir Joseph Albers, I'm closer to Rothko. And for me, this, as we call it, like a porno, makes sense, makes the main idea of the painting. So this painting is one of the, for me, was very difficult to make.

26:26 It's very dark, as you can see, but also it has a lot of things happening. And each centimetre of this painting can be another painting. It has an incredible surface. So speaking about blue, as I already mentioned, which blue is blue, which black is black, which green? So it's how you actually juxtapose it, how you balance it.

26:47 And it's all more scientific rather than emotional.

26:52 I can smell the paint still, and someone often can with more recent paintings. But also, what I'm beginning to realise as you show me painting by painting is not just the difference in colors, I mean, the base is that it is similar with the paintings, that short brand-almost, which is these juxtaposed vertical lines, but it's like layers of curtains.

27:15 Yes, they're very textiles.

27:16 Particularly in this one, yeah.

27:18 So, yes, I agree with you. I give my viewer a freedom to express their feelings or feel this connection or build the connection with paintings. They like people, they fall in love with the pieces. Each painting is similar in style, but they're different like us, like humans, because they have their own character, they have their own soul.

27:41 And especially when I start making a painting as, thinking about color and direction I want to explore, but then the painting develops its soul, develops its character, and the feeling belongs to me, belongs to the painting, and belongs to the viewer. And this is why I cannot force it. And everyone loves paintings they have.

28:02 And I'm very inspired by that as well.

28:06 What is a working day for you? Do you work in the night?

28:10 Well, I have an artificial light in my studio. So I do not rely on grey lights in London. But, I work in series. And at the moment, I have three exhibitions on display in London. And I am taking part in freeze and then I have, you know, more projects coming. So for me, being protective of my time in the studio is crucial. And this is a priority.

28:39 And discipline is important. We already discussed it. So discipline, whether you take it from banking or you can develop it yourself, it doesn't matter. You just, you really, and making a painting and being a creator is a, I would say, is a love of my life. It's something that it's, it's, it's in some artists would call it an urge.

29:01 So it's the way, how I live, how I feel, I mean, how, what makes me alive. This is super important. So I have to go to the canvas, not because it's deadly, but because this is crucial for me to feel alive. And this is how I live.

29:17 Should we go and sit that down again and continue? Yes, of course.

29:24 This is incredible. This is my recent pieces and I was almost pushed by my friends, other artists, to work on the smaller sizes. My good friend, an artist, and he's also one of the major tutors at City and Guilds University, and I actually study with him individually in a dialogue because, Because as an artist, I need to be supported by other colleagues.

29:55 And when I came to Dany's studio, I saw these small pieces and I thought that for me, it would be so difficult to create on a small size. And that is the key because I decided this is actually what I need to do. Because they are almost like a patch, really like this moment in time. They've got the moments and they're all different. These are light blue and, darker blue, but I have some reds in my studio. And they're actually very successful. People love them.

30:24 And also, it's super good to take part in group shows because they're easy. And for the Freeze, for example, we were showing some of them. And it also shows my ability to work on a different scale and being professional.

30:40 And probably more affordable as well.

30:42 Yes, it's another side of the metal that we will discuss in a moment about art business.

30:52 So I was looking at your curriculum vitae and a great deal of your showing happens outside the white cube space. We've seen examples of that in this space, You know, some of them are on a lighter background. There's one over there we didn't look at, Wuthering Heights, which I really love, which is in a kind of bedroom setting of a darker, kind of grayer ball background.

31:14 So a lot of the showing happens outside of the typical white cube, the Conduit Club, which we did a panel at Koya City, Hartmodern, Bingati, and here at 100 Kenston. Is that a deliberate strategy or is it where the opportunities came from?

31:31 I think that I'm just lucky to have a lot of time. I'm joking, but as I don't have family, I am happy to devote all of me to my occupation. And for me, first of all, as I said, the work in the studio is a priority. Second priority is working with the professional galleries. So I work, you know, I just have a capacity to, I would say, accommodate different projects.

31:59 And speaking about the projects you mentioned, they came through art consultancies that I work with. So first of all, I work with a number of professional galleries, like as I already mentioned. At Aderson Gallery, we have my solo show coming in November. Then I work and still work with the Wide Conduit Projects. I work with Gallery 8 in St. James. St. James' Eye.

32:22 I am in a conversation with Varvara Rosa Gallery. And I work with Zebra Gallery. And the owner of the Zebra Gallery. She is also a founder of the Woman in Art Prize, which is a huge, I would say, a huge event. And it's important because we are kind of female artists. It's a really good movement, and I'm very supportive of it.

32:45 So galleries are priority. So there's also, I would say, like hierarchy of the priorities. Protect the studio work. Create a good body of work. Know what your work means. And then work with professional galleries like Edison, like Zebra, Barbara Rosa. Maybe a couple of new galleries are interested. I'm not mentioning the name yet because I'm waiting for the contract.

33:07 And, you know, everything can change. And, you know, you know me since 2019 and you can see the evolution. And more to come.

33:16 Yeah, and a critic might object that work shown in showrooms like here. And show suites, gets read as decor? How do you guard against that? Does it matter to you if some buyers do see it?

33:29 Well, first of all, corporates buy my work. So it's really important to distinguish that I have buyers that are corporates. And then they can place it in the lobby or showroom. There's nothing more with that. So I am generating sales consistently. And I've been living on the sales of Merlin since 2019.

33:53 So it's a good achievement. So I would say that nothing wrong with showing, collaborating with organizations or showrooms, nothing wrong with that. But you need to have your priority of working with a person or the others, and also you need to have consistent sales. And then... That's probably, I would like to emphasize this. So I have a really good strategic planning in this.

34:18 And then showing in places like this, it's not a priority. It's just a part of the whole bigger picture.

34:26 It's like you're working from project by project. Who are your, maybe say more about, you've talked about corporate buyers of your art. Who are your collectors? You know, you said corporate buyers. What about private individuals, developers' design? Are there designers that think, oh, we can use this in the design of a high-end hotel?

34:48 And how do you find those collectors? And how do you retain them?

34:51 Well, I am very transparent online. And my profile is on ARCnet, on RC, on Saatchi. I have a website. I have a big following on Instagram and on LinkedIn. So people, there's already, and word of mouth is already, you know, people come in, they've heard of me, they love my work, and it's so accumulative effect, I would say.

35:16 And also, yes, my collectors are hired by us, mostly. I don't sell to designers or some kind of this. Sometimes the art consultancies, they buy work for their clients. But i think that what you're talking about like a hotels probably as a few pieces that you know like the price range would be like that's like 50 000 pounds per painting so and that should be something so it's not it's definitely i would say not a decoration it's not it's well it's not risky category because when you speak about some galleries like, commercial galleries i was approached by one gallery, they called me recently and they say, because they took my email from somewhere and they called me and say, they didn't know that I'm an artist.

36:05 And they called me and said, you know, we would like to suggest you to buy one artist who generated 90% ROI per year. So, and I was like smiling. So don't believe that so i think that my collectors they just they follow my evolution follow the because they trust this development and if i say that the painting costs this money it means that it generated roi and from my perspective i would say less is more so i maintain this quality of clients and i'm very fortunate that my clients have a very good eye have a good taste they're smart and they think long-term.

36:46 This is very important.

36:49 I wonder whether your video painting you spoke to about standing present, is that in this space? Can we go and have a look at that?

36:57 Thanks Sam, bye-bye.

37:06 That's quite interesting. So what I'm seeing at the moment, and for the people who can see this and also the listeners, is what looks like a kind of like a digital painting that you can have on a screen on your wall. But Lara has just asked them to switch this on, switch the video on. So it works as a static work, but also as a moving work.

37:27 Yes, and if you can do it from the beginning, probably. So it actually has a sound as well. So it's also, the idea is showing the work in motion and having this opportunity to show the artwork on a brief screen and to, transfer to work beyond the canvas, so, and I also, because I produced, for example, recently, I produced a series of artworks with AI and it was shown at the digital section at the site.

38:52 Myself. Well, not myself, but I would say that I use AI to do it.

38:56 Yeah, so you're bringing another sense?

39:00 Yes, I want people to feel blended senses. Which is more, there's no particular, I would say, agenda to the sound. It's more like how it goes into your brain and helps you to focus on the color and goes into the photo. That was the meaning of the music that they used.

39:35 Yeah, what it reminds me of, and I think probably a lot of our viewers, listeners, if they saw your work, the closest thing I can think of is Gerhard Richter's name, since he's created all of these abstracts. The abstract is built, as I'm thinking of, in particular, with lots of layers of paint, and obviously doing it in a very different aesthetic way to yourself.

39:53 But I remember seeing at the Barbican, Steve Wright, the minimalist composer, did a soundtrack and actually conducted it. And there was a Richter film of his paintings that was doing something very similar to this. So it's a really nice idea, the way an abstract painter can then bring their work to life using digital media and put music to it at the same time.

40:17 And also it's very important in this all the arts we have uh literature we have, uh you know poetry literature writing we have music and i really love my work, and the music as well in general and i've seen i've been to different projects in the day and other galleries when they uh think about the artwork and they create music for it or opposite it's great.

40:41 And you know i've I've already mentioned the painting, which is the title of a novel, Wuthering Heights, but interestingly, what we're just talking about, you know, many people think of Wuthering Heights as that there's been a recent movie of it that was quite controversial. So, you know, it's kind of been all media, Wuthering Heights, and of course, Kate Bush's Wonderful Soul.

41:16 Connection to nature and, the forest is incredible and all my, paintings if you come closer and you can see like this painting next to the video you can see that it's almost like a forest so it's always brush strokes they and the ones had like pixels on display are like a low vertical brush strokes or they can be referred to a forest or a night city or something like where you go and draw into.

41:45 So yeah, the measuring price was a deliberate name because it's a lot of different meanings to it. And one of them is a literature, which I also pay attention to. And I watched the film and they actually were saying that the film is a way that is an art as well. So I watched it and I think that they did a good job.

42:06 So most of our listeners or a lot of the listeners I know so my art business students, prospects or alumni or current students, many will go on to work with artists as dealers, advisors or agents. What is one thing you wish the people in the business side understood about working with an artist like me?

42:28 I think that working with me is easy because I'm disciplined, I'm clear and I'm professional. So speaking about this, I don't know why I mentioned this, but Yes, I think that it's important because different people with different personalities, it's important to find the, people, for art dealers or future art dealers or future art consultancies, it's important to find artists that you're comfortable to work with, that you believe in.

42:58 And also, for future art consultants, I think it's important to. Understand that it takes years to develop the style and you need to be protecting or care caring of the style and nurturing the style and also for example when you think about market is, you know changing and there are certain trends and stuff so just i would say in some way just ignore that focus on building a long-term strategy and long-term perspective and for for my meetings i always have this mind because i think about the future steps where I'm going to be next and, I'm really just create this environment for an artist to, prosper and it's two ways to do it so the artist and the art advisor they're connected so and also the viewer and the client I would say for art business

43:59 it's important because the clients. Everyone wants to be happy and everyone wants to be prosperous so everyone profits when the artist is nurtured and looked after and have this ability to, work and not interact this practice with, you know, do this, do that. So just being really understanding of that.

44:22 And don't follow trends, but be consistent.

44:25 Symbiote to a relationship, little ecosystems. We're thinking about nature again. I think I'd like to finish by quoting you, Lara, and first to thank you very much for inviting me down here to look at your paintings. It's been wonderful. So I'm just going to quote Rothko, one of the old artists you referred to, said that a painting lives by companionship, It's standing and quickening in the eyes of the sensitive observer.

44:53 That is the invitation. Come and look.

44:56 Thank you very much, David. Well, it was great to have you. And, yes, your students or your listeners, very welcome to come to my exhibitions and find me on Instagram, Laura Julian, and find me on LinkedIn and connect with me. I'm happy to stay in touch. And I hope to see you at my exhibitions as well.