Why Apologizing to Your Kids Builds Trust, Not Weakness featuring Adam Ukman

0:02 Welcome to the Dad Edge podcast. The Dad Edge movement creates leaders of men. Leaders of families and leaders of communities. We will not only impact this generation of fathers, but the next generation as well. The kids we are raising will have better chances and odds stacked in their favor because of the amazing example that their fathers emulated for them.

0:24 We are here to change the world. We are here to change relationships. We are here to positively disrupt this generation of fathers. So no man goes to their grave with regret. We disrupt the drift of busyness and replace it with razor focused intention, passion, purpose and direction. We are the dad edge and we're here to change the game.

1:01 Adam. Welcome to Dad Edge, my friend. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Dude, I'm so happy to have you. You know, it's, what you do. And what I do, I think is somewhat similar, I think, but it also compliments a lot of different things, a lot of different aspects. I think that we've touched upon a little bit, but you're, you're razor focused and that is that's the dad initiative.

1:24 When did this thing get started? We launched the dads initiative last September, so about a year ago. But I've been thinking about it for a few years. For a few years in the need. Yep. So what? So for a few years. So, like what? When you you just launched last September. What what what was the first need that you saw?

1:44 Like what sparked this idea? Yeah. I mean, I like, like most people on the consumer of media, right. And, I just, I think a lot of us has been watching and looking at a lot of this media that is either for or about men, and kind of seeing two lanes, right? One which is this level of conversation and narrative about what men should be angry about, and that's divisive.

2:15 That really is full of anger a lot of the time. And this other side of media that kind of tells men that they're the problem with all of society's ills. And neither of those things really resonated with me. You know, I'm a dad. I'm a man. I and trying to do my best. Like, I think most of us are in the world.

2:35 And I was hearing both of these stories and I was like, man, this doesn't feel like it resonates with who I am and what I'm trying to be as a dad, as a man, as a person. Where's the the sort of middle ground? Where's the lane for? For people like me? And, you know, I've, I've been in this media space for a while and kind of saw this opportunity, right, to build something different and tell different stories for people like you and me, for dads trying to do their best, that that really inspires us to be the best versions of ourselves.

3:07 It just felt lacking to me like there's this big void. And so I went down this path of trying to see if other people also fly that void. And figuring out what can we deliver that it's actually meaningful and resonant and entertaining and feels like it really hits the nail on the head for just regular dads.

3:25 Where do you live right now? I'm in Colorado for Collins. Okay, I so I, you know, I've got a client who lives out there. I love Colorado, but the reason I ask is because we're doing this virtual. But if we're in person, I mean, I just give you a big hug right now. Like, I feel like, dude, we're just, like, cut from the same cloth here.

3:42 And, I love what you're doing. And I love that you stepped into this. I want to introduce you to the audience. And you've got quite a resume here, man, which I think is really, really amazing. And after I share with the audience who you are, what you've been doing, why you've been doing it, I, I really want to start with this media thing.

4:03 You know, I think one of the things that really sucks the life out of a man in his mental energy is getting really triggered about what we see online. Like, I just saw this real this morning, and it just I try to time myself on social media, like I literally put a timer on my phone and I'll scroll through, scroll through things for five minutes.

4:23 I'll just stop. And I saw, obviously we're in the heat of this really controversial Lindsay Lindsay Clancy case. And this woman was on talking about how the reason that these kids are no longer living isn't because of Lindsay, it's because of their dad. And it had everything to do with the patriarch. And I was like, you got to be kidding me.

4:44 Like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, so anyway, like, I, I think that there's a lot of things out there that are against us, but that's where I want to start. After I share who you are with the audience. Is that cool? That sounds. That sounds good. Yep. So everybody who comes on the show gets a gets an introduction and your, your resume, dude, is it's long.

5:02 But you know what? After I did all my research on you. I couldn't help it, man. I had to include all this stuff because it's absolute gold. So, So here it is. There's something about your work that immediately got my attention. When you email me, you're asking a question that I think very few people in media are asking.

5:20 And where are the normal dads? That's the question. Where's the content for the guys who love their wives, who love their kids, who are trying to provide, who's trying to stay healthy, who's trying to figure out what in the hell he's in middle, he's in the middle of everything and doesn't necessarily want someone screaming at him about what he should be doing next, or what he should be angry about, because somewhere along the way, men's media got really loud.

5:46 And it's really loud as of today. There's plenty of content telling us men what's wrong with us. There's plenty of people telling us who we should blame. There's plenty of people who are blaming us. There's plenty of them. And I would say them, as in people on the media who who are just quite frankly, pissed off at men.

6:04 But there isn't nearly enough content that simply says, you're a man, you're a dad. Your life matters. Your interest matters, your relationships matter, and becoming a better version of yourself can actually be enjoyable. That is the space you're trying to build. You're a husband of a little boy named Noah. You've been married for over a decade, a long time media executive, and today you lead this incredible platform called the Dads Initiative, a media company built around a pretty interesting idea.

6:36 Instead of making more parenting content about fathers, you want to make great content for men who happen to be fathers. That's a huge distinction, because most dads aren't waking up on a Saturday morning thinking, man, I hope somebody gives me another lecture on parenting today. We're watching sports. We're golfing, we're grilling, we're working out, we're thinking about money, we're playing video games, and we're trying to figure out why our clothes that we wore 27 suddenly make us look ridiculous at 42.

7:05 And your belief is those interests aren't separate from fatherhood. They're actually an entry point. Your team has studied more than 1300 fathers and found something really, really fascinating. When men are simply asked how they identify themselves, being a dad or parent was the second most common answer, right behind simply being a man. Not their job, not their politics, not their relationship status.

7:29 Dad. And yet you believe the media landscape has largely failed to understand how significant that identity actually is. So you're here to change it. The Dads Initiative is building is a building program around style, sports, outdoors, food, money, gaming, movies, culture and real conversations between men. Your first show, Reset Mode, looks like a men's makeover show on the surface, but underneath all of that, it's really a show about confidence.

7:58 And I love that. By the way, the idea is simple when a dad starts feeling better about himself doesn't stop with him. His wife experiences at his kids, experience at his friendships experience it. The way he walks into a room changes. The way he participates in his own life changes. And that leads us to something else you want men talking more about.

8:19 And that is emotional honesty. Because confidence isn't about just an individual experience. It's actually relational. How I see myself impacts how I show up with my wife. How I feel about myself will impact the patients I have with my kids. How connected I am to other men impacts what happens when life gets hard. I fully agree with that.

8:42 And we're not just going to have a serious conversation about modern fatherhood. We can't only talk about what fathers do, we have to talk about what fathers are experiencing internally the pressure, the loneliness, the responsibility, the identity shifts, the things that we are actually scared to say out loud and the things a lot of men don't have another guy in their lives to actually talk to these things about.

9:04 You're interested in making things worth our time. And I love that distinction, because I don't think dads need another lecture. I think a lot of us just simply need better conversations. We need better stories, we need better examples. And maybe most importantly, and I wholeheartedly agree with this. 70% of men report being lonely. We need better company. So today we're going to get into the state of men's media.

9:27 And why there seems to be so much extreme with that. As far as like the toxicity that goes along with that, we're going to talk about what fathers are actually looking for. We're going to talk about confidence and why becoming more a more confident man actually isn't selfish when your whole family experiences the ripple effects. We're going to talk about emotional honesty between men.

9:49 And I really want to get personal about your own experience as a husband and father, because behind the dads initiative is a guy who clearly believes fatherhood has the capacity to fundamentally transforms transform a man's life. So Adam welcome here brother would kind intro. Thank you Larry. That's awesome dude I couldn't resist man. It's a little long but but it was it was so important I was when I was first when I was when I was creating it, I was like I can't leave any of this out.

10:17 It's way too important, you know, I'd rather have more than less. But let's talk about the media. You know, you're in this space. You're also in the fatherhood space, which I think is really unique. What are you what are you seeing? Like why or why are we being attacked so much? You know, I think it's a it's a great question. And when I think about a lot, I think that there is this, inclination in society generally that it's a zero sum game, that there always has to be someone to blame, that there's always have to be something angry about. I think it stems from the real fact that men, women, families, all of us, we're struggling.

10:56 You know, there are it is a tough time to be raising a family, to be raising kids economically. You know, you talk about isolation and loneliness. So the social aspects, I think it's it's hard. And there's this notion that, well, if I'm struggling, the only way for me to be better or feel better is to blame somebody else or to find something to be mad about.

11:21 And I actually just don't think that is true. I don't think that's the way that the world works. I think that we actually all succeed better together. But that's not what incentivizes media. You know, what incentivizes media is that division. Is that friction. And that's how you get traction. So I think we're sort of working against the tide often in what narratives are getting eyeballs and what the platforms and the algorithms and the sort of general media landscape rewards and what we really need that resonates with who we are and what we're trying to be in the world.

11:54 So there's this gap that I think just naturally surfaces that doesn't actually serve any of us. Well, I think that's what we're sort of fighting against. You know, speaking of algorithms, maybe you know this better than I do because I just I don't know, social media that well, you know, I don't buy ads. I don't buy followers. Like, I literally I put the things out there that are on my heart and that's it.

12:16 You know, I speak from my heart and I speak truth and I speak honesty. And I would say about 90% of my content, gets, you know, I would say an average amount of views. But if I put something out there that is triggering or divisive and I have in the past based on my stances, like I don't put anything political out there, I don't put anything, or put some faith based things out there, but they're they're really not triggering.

12:40 But I, I put a video out not too terribly long ago, like, so for instance, this one guy was was making a video here. He's like, here are the five responses that work best for your wife when she's in a triggered state. And it was it was a it was a total satire. It was the guy who obviously was joking.

13:00 But one is like, calm down, you're fine. Relax. You're acting just like my ex. You're acting just like your mother. Those were the five responses. And then I put a video in and after that I was like, okay, I know this guy's joking. I was like, at the same time, like, I've been so guilty of of saying some of these things, like early in my marriage and it was terrible.

13:18 And a video like that got, you know, 100 000 views in a matter of like 12 hours. And then I put another video out of something good. And it was this old couple sitting in a car, and it was like a ten second video, and the woman goes, hey, I just want to tell you something. And the man looked over. He's like, what? She goes, I just really appreciate being your wife and I so appreciate you being my husband. And I then put a video out saying, like, you know, one of the things that's so, so meaningful to a man is just literally those words like, I appreciate you because appreciation is something we we really do need. And the guy just like lit up and that thing got like a few thousand and I'm like, look at that.

13:57 Like, so just out of curiosity, are the algorithms obviously against putting out the good things and people just want to view the things that are super triggering? I mean, you know, I don't I don't know, I think the algorithms are a little bit of a mystery. It's it's hard to know what they're going to reward and what they're not.

14:15 I think the, the stuff that is little trivia is certainly going to get reactions right. Like there's, there's whether it's a good reaction or a bad reaction in terms of the algorithm, it's a reaction. So that's going to reward your content being pushed out further and further. You know why the other piece is much traction? I think it's it's hard to say it in my view.

14:42 Social media is you have to put a lot out there to see what works and to find your audience. Right. I think that's what we're working at, the dads initiative. It's just to really find the stuff that resonates. So, you know, one piece of content may not be the thing that gains traction, but that doesn't mean you stop telling those stories, because I think that what we need is more stories that matter and more stories that resonate.

15:04 Maybe it's the funny story, or the earnest or the genuine story. Maybe some of those work by than others. But at the end of the day, I think people want to see stories that reflect who they are and the things that they value in the world, and whether or not the algorithms will always reward that. I don't know, you know, I don't work at these big tech companies that are designing these algorithms, but I think our job is to figure out how to break through in a way that actually really resonates.

15:29 I think so too. What are, what are some of the topics that you, I would say see the most? That or even with the guys that you studied and, you know, the fathers that do life with you, what are some of the main topics that seem to be most hurtful to the modern man, to the modern father, to even I would say, you know, I would say positive masculinity.

15:56 Yeah. I mean, I think you've named some of it, right? It's the, the stuff that is either creating division amongst us or stuff that's lecturing us. I think neither of those things are really helpful. Neither of those things really resonate. I think there is incredible content that is out there around fatherhood for men who are specifically looking for content about being a dad.

16:24 And, you know, you do a lot of this in your show and other shows like yours, that, that do serve an audience looking for I think the, the space is that that is really lacking in is really being fueled by more of the, the let's just call it misogyny, you know, anti-immigrant, other other type of content where it tells you what to be angry about.

16:52 You know, you can call it The View, you can call it whatever it is. I think there's a lot of narratives out there that are not actually helping men or their families or society themselves. And so I think that's what we're really working against is this whole notion, again, of a zero sum mentality that the only way for you to do well is by putting down someone else.

17:13 That just doesn't work. And I think, you know, we need to find narratives that feel more attuned to who we are and more importantly, who we want to be. You know, I think about myself as a dad, really, not just want to think about media, but when I think about, my life and, and, you know, how I want my son to see me as a father.

17:38 And I think about things like, I want him to see me in a way that I, you know, emulate something he wants to be done, which is like just be a kind person, be confident in himself, be curious about the world around him. So when I think about the topics that are harmful, it's actually the stuff that doesn't align with any of those values, right?

17:59 If you are spewing a lot of hate, it's not because you're a confident person is because you're insecure and you're anxious and you are looking for someone to blame for that. You know, it's because you are struggling in a way where you are disconnected from those around you, in the communities that we live in. And that is the kind of stuff that I think is in a lot of our feeds that doesn't serve us.

18:23 So, you know, I think that's the stuff we need to we need to really respond to a little bit better. I agree with you, man. I love I love everything you just said. And I love I love the fact that you said that people really relate to stories that are meaningful to them. I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

18:43 I want to move into this study that you did with these 1300 fathers. You know, I think, one of the first questions we ask a guy, you know, that we're in relationship with or we just met is what do you do? Might we have a lot of identity and like, what we do for a living and, you know, or we say we're a dad or we, you know, but but the interesting thing was, is the study that you did is most men it sounds like they simply identify with being a man.

19:13 Is that accurate? You know, and being a dad. Yeah, absolutely. So, what what else came out of that study? Like what were some really interesting things that, that you found throughout that, that study with 1300 guys? Yeah. I think the thing that stood out to me, maybe more than anything else, was the universality of it. It doesn't matter your age or your race or how many kids you have, or where you live, or your political identity and ideology.

19:42 Like, none of that matters. That theme, that surface to the top was unconditional love for your kid. And and I think, you know, every dad is different. Dads are not a monolith. But regardless of who you are or what values you hold or what beliefs you have, we're mostly just working to be the best dad we can be and to create the world that allows our children to thrive.

20:07 Right. I think the other thing that in the, you know, we were we were exploring not only the the fatherhood identity and how dads experienced the world. We were also exploring how do they experience stories about fatherhood in that study? And we asked we asked him a question. There's actually a lot of really interesting data that came out of it.

20:28 But one of which was who in media right now as a sort of fatherhood figure or a character, whether it's social media, whether it's in TV, whether it's movies resonates with you and reflects who you are as a father. And you know what the top answer was? What was that? Nobody. I don't see any father figures in popular media that reflects who I am as a dad.

20:51 There were a few notable examples which I thought were really interesting. One was Bluey blue or Bluey dad bandit. And it's like, okay, that's great, Ben, it's great. But, we have to look at a cartoon, you know, Australian Cattle Dog for a representation that feels resonant with who we are as dads. Like something's off about that. And pie from little House on the Prairie.

21:15 It was one who served as well, which I really appreciated. It's not to say that there aren't representations of fatherhood that feel resonant. You know, I think, whether it's, the full House Danny Tanner or whether it's Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince, like, we've done a lot of testing and seen a lot of these sort of models of fatherhood do resonate, but there are few and far between.

21:38 And instead, I think what we get a lot of the time is the sort of bumbling fool dad. In media that I don't totally understand it, to be honest with you. Maybe people think it's funny. I don't love it. It just feels like the butt of the joke. And that's not the kind of father that I think most of us are trying to be.

21:59 Or it's these super hyper masculine hero dads like you think, Brian Mills from taken, who, you know, is doing all he can do to get his daughter back. Like, yeah, I think there's, like some protective motivations that resonate in that. But is that who I am as a dad? Not really. And so a lot of what we found in this in the study we did was this real void in presentations of fatherhood and also how fatherhood is often talked about.

22:32 You know, I think there is a there's a thread of narratives around fatherhood, around caretaking, and certainly lots of other studies, more than we've done around how dads are showing up in different ways in our previous generations. Right, and want to do more caretaking. And I think that's all a positive evolution of fatherhood. But we asked in this study, would you rather be seen as a kind, caring, loving provider or as a strong, independent protective provider?

23:05 And this is a four story question. And, you know, there's some challenges with that because you can certainly be both. But in a in a space where I think sometimes we really hyper focus on on caretaking. True to one, dads told us they'd rather be seen as a strong, independent protective provider. And and I think that's telling that the stories that they hear about the types of dads that they should be, we're not using the same language that they're using.

23:34 We're not actually telling those stories in ways that feel attuned to who they are and who they want to be. And so it's not to say we can't do both of these things or all of the above, but it is to say, I think we are generally across the board. And this is one of the things that I think was one of my biggest tech ways from this research was we're not actually meeting dads where they are.

23:54 We're not talking to them in ways that resonate with who they are, who they want to be. And we can do better both in the narratives we tell, in the that we create, in the ways in which we sort of evoke this notion of modern fatherhood. You know, as you were talking about, some of the examples in the media, like Al Bundy came to mind, were married with children, you know, Peter Griffin from family Guy, Homer Simpson, you know, it's like all these all these guys who have no clue what the hell is even going on in there under their own roof. And they seem like the the the idiot, like the kids look at him like he's an idiot.

24:32 The wife does. And he's so much so sometimes that he's such a loof that he doesn't even see that his family sees him in that way, which is really fascinating. I mean, you even mentioned Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince. They're, you know, I really always kind of I wasn't a huge fan of that show, but I've seen enough clips that I'm like an Uncle Phil.

24:56 Like, he was a cool dude. Like, he had structure, he had discipline, but he also just loved and supported his kids in every way possible. And even even, Will Smith, you know, in that, in that show. You know what, when we talk about like, and I agree with you, I, I see a huge and this is where I give a lot of credit to men of this generation who are raising kids is a lot of men have literally said, no, I want more than what I had with my dad, because I think you and I were maybe raised more.

25:31 Not everybody, but some, and I would say probably a lot, that we were raised with a man who was a provider and maybe not the man who is more emotionally intelligent, because I think they were raised by probably one of the hardest generations in history, like my, our grandfathers, you know, and our and that was a that was very much like, you know, the line, you know, you and there were there were serious consequences and it felt a maybe even a bit more militant, you know.

25:59 So I think our dads probably did the best they could with what they had. But I think we're seeing a lot of rise in men now. I love this study that you did, because I think we're seeing a lot of that. I want to talk about just some of the extremes. You know, you you mentioned the manosphere, which I've had so many people tell me about that documentary in just a few weeks ago.

26:17 I finally watched it and I was completely blown away by it. I was like, I was disgusted by it. I was like, there really dudes out there like this, like, this is crazy. And if this is like, if these are the loudest people on media, no wonder people hate us so much. But then again, I, I don't really gravitate.

26:38 So like, I, I, I would be one of those people that would check the box of I'd rather be seen as an independent protector, you know, with obviously some emotional intelligence with my kids. You know what I mean? Where they're at. But that's what I gravitate to. I don't really gravitate or identify with, like these super soft, like emotional dads, like, like so much gentle parenting.

27:01 Like it, like it makes me. It's use my kids words. It makes me feel kind of cringe. But, do you see what do you see in that extreme as far as, like the manosphere, the man in between all that and then like I would say, like this overly soft, sort of emotional part of a man. That's a great question. And I think the thing that I, you know, I largely think is missing is that content, that storytelling, that narrative for the men in the middle, for the guy who's just trying to show up, right, and do his best and be his best. And, you know, it's really interesting. You talk about that sort of intergenerational shift. I, you know, I was blessed and that I have both an amazing dad and an amazing stepfather, very present, very, very active.

27:49 And my parenting style is still very different. Right? My, my approach to what engagement looks like, what being present looks like is still very different. But I like you. You know, I don't grab it towards either of these extremes, you know, the sort of hyper masculine or the sort of more soft side of gentle parenting. Like, I am just trying to model the type of man that I want my son to be, because that's all I can do, right?

28:18 Like I want him to be, as I mentioned, kind and confident and curious. I want him to be, you know, enter the world with sort of an exuberance for whatever it is that he wants to explore, and, and just support and guide him along the way. Because one of the most amazing things about being a dad is having a front row seat to watching your kid become the person he's going to become like, that is the thing that makes us all worth it.

28:49 And so, you know, when you talk about these narratives that are on either side of this, I think both of those are just lectures. It's just telling you, you have to do this a certain way. You have to do that at certain way and not, hey, you know, you are a dad who's showing up, who's trying to do his best, who's trying to model the right kind of behavior, the right kind of values, the right kind of perspective on the world so your kid can have something to emulate and look up to.

29:19 And, like, honestly, on either side of that, none of that's fun, you know, like the gentle parenting or the the sort of man it doesn't feel good. It's not fun. Parenting is fun, man. Like it is hard. Every day there are new challenges, all that is true. But it is fun. Like, let's lean into that and let's give something to the dad who's enjoying his life as a dad who's not like taking off his dad hat when he goes to watch the football game or play around a golf.

29:46 He's still a dad. Let's meet him. There was something that just respects who he is and what he's trying to do. And how he shows up in the world. I am a big believer that dads have the ability and honestly, the responsibility to help create the world our kids deserve and can be heroes for this next generation.

30:09 So let's lift that up. Like that's the thing I want to lean into is like, how are we making this enjoyable and fun and inspiring ourselves to just be the best that we can so that our kids have the best lights possible? Like that's it. I love that man. I think that's a mixture of both worlds or all worlds.

30:28 I really, really do. I, I was at an event and I was, I was doing some speaking. I think this might really kind of seal up what you were talking about. And have you ever heard of a man by the name of Todd Herman? He wrote the book called The Alter Ego Effect. Not really fascinating. So for the past 30 years, Todd has helped pro athletes, Hollywood A-list celebrities, actors and actresses basically step into an alter ego for better performance.

30:59 Not a fake it til you make it type of thing, but like so an example like Bo Jackson, who I think he's in the Hall of Fame for two sports baseball and football. If you ask Bo Jackson, Bo Jackson never played a game of football in his life because when he was on the sidelines with his family or friends, he was Bo.

31:14 But when he put that lid on his helmet and he stepped out on that field, he became Jason Voorhees, the psychopathic stone cold killer. And he was out to hurt somebody, right? That was that was the what he encompassed. Right? So, like, I really got into Todd's work about alter egos and better performance and all that. And I really identified with four different types of men slash actors that I really gravitated to as a man, husband and father.

31:41 So I'll give you the examples real quick. So one is Leonidas from 300. It's actually part of why we have the Spartan branding. Right? Because I really do identify with that independent protector. I think a man needs to be kind, but I also think he needs to have the potential to be dangerous if he needs to protect himself or his family.

32:02 Another one is Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Reynolds, if you look at him, he's he's playful, right? He's fun. Like no matter what obstacles come his way, he'll make a joke about it, right? And he'll just laugh about it. You can't help but like, love that character. Another one was Ryan Gosling and Crazy, Stupid Love, where he plays a the costar to Steve Carell, which I love that movie, but Ryan Gosling is, I think, that great medium between.

32:26 He's a bit of a womanizer in the movie, and I'm not I'm not subscribing to that. But he was it was confidence, which I know we're going to talk a lot about, and it's not being attached to outcomes, and it's being able to be interested in other people. You become interesting when you and playful and fun and that kind of thing.

32:41 And then when I think about also like, how do I meet my kids, you know, through playfulness, through protector, through confidence, but also where can I meet them? With compassion, empathy. And the person that came to mind was Jonathan Romeo, who plays Jesus in the chosen. Like how he how he interacts with everyone with such grace and calm.

32:58 I'm like, that's the kind of dad I want to be when my kids are really in the heat of something. So, I think, you know, I just want to, like, kind of compound on that of, like, you know, why I chose those people and why it's a meaningful thing for me. And I think it gives a really good mixture of exactly what you were talking about.

33:16 So I really appreciate the work you're doing. I actually want to move to confidence. This is something that I've talked a little bit about on the show, but I think confidence is so freaking foundational. And when I was doing the research and coming up with your bio, the thing that really kind of came clear to me that probably was a little hazy in the past is this ripple effect that you talk about, because confidence for a man is not just for himself.

33:39 There's this ripple effect into his marriage, into with his kids, into his relationships he has outside of his family and to his work. And I, I really want to deep dive this one. So let's talk about confidence. What have you learned about men in confidence just through all the work you've been doing? Yeah, I you know, I think, confidence is such a critical part of, of how we show up in the world.

34:06 I think a confident man doesn't tear down those around him. He lifts up those around him. You know, none of us are perfect, are I am of the belief that we are constantly evolving and trying to improve and be the best version of ourselves, and there's no like, endpoint where we are that best version. I think it is a constant work in progress.

34:26 There's always needs for us to work on. But I think confidence is so critical to how we enter into the world, to how we enter into our relationships. You know, when I feel confident, when I am confident I can handle the the turbulence a lot better, right. Whether it's, you know, my son having temper tantrum or, you know, things that happen in a relationship and, you know, you have to show up as, as a man who is going to be there for his family, whatever it is.

34:56 I think confidence really exudes to everything else that we've touched in our lives. In our in the stories that we tell across the media that we're producing and putting it out in the world through the dads initiative, I think that's just a critical through line, because we're not looking for stories of the perfect dad. Right? We're looking for stories that resonate with who we are in our sort of day to day experiences and, the trials and tribulations and all of that and how we navigate that as men and as dads.

35:29 And I'll give you an example. We have a show called Cart Talk. It is it is a golf oriented show with a host named Paul Sullivan, who's playing nine holes of golf with another dad, talking about things that matter, you know, not just golf, but life and fatherhood and relationships and all of that. And it's entertaining. If you like golf content, you'll like the show.

35:52 But on the recent episode, we had a guy named Tom Coyne who is well known in the golf world, has written, I think, six books, traveled the world playing all sorts of golf courses. And he talks in this in this episode about his struggle with alcohol. And in over a decade ago, having become sober, and how that changed everything for him.

36:15 That's not the image in the picture of a perfect man or dad that somebody who faced real stuff, their lives and part of his evolution to become a better man and a better dad was the community that he had around him to lift him up and his ability to see more clearly what mattered in life. And to me, that is a signal of confidence and understanding who you are in the world and who you want to be, and working to get there.

36:41 So you ask, how does confident show up with the the media and the types of audience we were trying to reach? I don't think it's an end goal. I think it's a process. And the more that we show up with confidence, the better able we are to become the person in the man that we're meant to be. That's a really interesting statement. Can I challenge you a little bit on this? Absolutely. I so I agree with you. And at the same time, it got me really curious if you were to, if you were to create maybe an ultimate end goal for this, what what would you what are a few ideas that come to mind?

37:23 And then, by the way, I, I again I'm aligned with you. I, I, I agree that there's a process to this, but if we were to be like. But if this could be the end goal, that would be pretty amazing. Yeah, I think I think about that on a couple of levels, right. One is how do we show up as the best dads we can be, right?

37:46 You can't expect something of your child if you don't model that yourself. And I think that takes a little bit of confidence in what that ultimate version of yourself is, and some vision for how you get there. So on that level, you know, I think there's a sort of a, an end goal of being the dad. There's no, I don't think there's any, any one version of what perfect dad. But being the dad who is there, who helps provide and protect his kids, who is always going to be the one that his kid can look to as the hero of his life and model his own life after. I think that is part of, being a dad is like letting your kid be who they're going to be, but showing them the way, right?

38:32 I think the other side of it is, is more about the community we build around ourselves, in society at large. There is no way to be a confident man or a confident dad and be disengaged, I think, from the community that surround us. So what I mean by that is like, show up, you know, have a version of yourself that is committed to fighting for a better world for our kids, whether that's showing up your school board, whether that's showing up at your city council meeting, whether it's, you know, making sure you are advocating for a world in which every child has a chance to thrive.

39:10 Like I think that is a measure of your own confidence because you're in it not just for your own good, for those around you. I think that is really the measure of a confident man. I'll just be honest with you. Like my I've been I've been in social impact work for a long time. Media and sort of other ways of organizing communities in service of I really doing good because I, I, I've always wanted it sounds cliche, but like just leave the world better than I found it.

39:40 That entire mentality changed when I had a child. Yes, I want to do that, but I want to do it for him. I want to do it for Noah, you know? I want to do everything I can in my power to create the world that enables him and everyone, every child like him, to be their best selves, too. And so all of that, I think, takes a measure of confidence and a vision for what you think the world should be, and doing everything you can to help get there.

40:08 I agree man, I, I've been running a community of dads for, gosh, 11 years now. And, I see men come to life in our community, like when they get in conversations with other men. I also see the dark side of this where a man, gives up on himself. Right? I see this especially when he's going through a season or a valley he doesn't want to show up to, you know, his his his call team, his zoom team that we have, he doesn't want to share what's going on in his life there.

40:45 And then we tend to like what we call it in our community. As you're going into the shadows of shame and you don't want to share anything that's going on because you think you're going to bring everybody else down. I see that a lot. And then or I'll see guys like, we had a brand new guy join, this was just a few weeks ago, and this guy messages me over and over in our community, and I answer every single DM in our In our community app.

41:10 And he's like, nothing's changing my marriage. I'm ready to give up. Nothing's changing here. Nothing's changed in there. And my first question back to him was, have you shown up to a call team yet? No, I haven't shown up to a call team yet. Like why not? I'm just trying to find one that works. We have 35 of them per week and I'm like, dude, I was like, let me ask you a question.

41:29 If your son and he's got a son to plays football, I was like, if your son came to you and says, dad, I'm not getting better at football, but he's not going to practice, what would you tell him? He's like, I'd tell him to get his butt to practice. I was like, well, then show up to a team. None of this stuff is going to get better unless you practice it. And I think going back to you to your to, to to the, segment where you're talking about men need to be the example. You know, I think that there's a lot of guys out there that are playing on the field when it comes to being the example.

42:00 And then I think there's a lot of guys on the sidelines who are just watching, and then there's the hope that things are going to get better. And then unfortunately, taking that a step further, I think there are a lot of guys in the crowd in the stadium that won't even get on the sidelines or on the field, and they just settle for the status quo and going back to confidence.

42:18 I had a great mentor of mine asked me a question. He was like, you want to be more confident? I said, yeah, I want to be more confident. He's like, do you know how to build confidence? And I couldn't answer the question at the time. He's like, do you know how you build confidence from the first thing you do?

42:30 I was like, I don't know. He goes, you have to keep your word to yourself and others, period. You have to keep your word to yourself and others. He's like, so if you tell your wife, hey, I'm going to get up at 5:00 tomorrow morning and go to the gym, and you hit the snooze bar till 630, what do you think your chances are of making it to the gym the next day?

42:47 Because you broke your confidence? You broke your own words, so you really don't believe in yourself. He's like, whether your wife says something to you out loud or not, or even your kids who might have known that you were going to go to the gym, they probably won't say anything to you, but they're also watching. Dad is not true to his own word, but I want to pose this question back to you.

43:07 What are ways that you've noticed beyond that that men can build confidence? You know, it's an interesting question, and I've heard you on this show talk about intention, you know, bringing some intentionality to, how you show up in the world of what you do. There is a distinction between intention and choice. And I've heard you talk about this. I heard you talk about the fact like intention is enough. What does intention get you?

43:35 Nothing if you don't do anything about it. I think it comes down to the choices we make in every aspect of our lives and our personal lives, and our family lives is dads. As men, there is not a lot we can control in this world, but we can control our choices. You know, we can't control others choices. We can't control our kids.

43:56 To some degree, they're going to make their own choices or their own people. We can guide them and counsel them and try to mentor them, but we can't make the choices for them. We can make choices for ourselves. I think our lives are an accumulation of those choices. So whether it's about building confidence, whether it's about showing up in the way that you intend to show up, whether it's about changing something in your life, all that only happens if you make the choices and take the action to do that.

44:26 I think for a lot of guys and I can't speak for every guy, I can only really speak for myself and sort of what I hear from those who are in our community. Those are in my own personal community. It is, I think, undeniably true that the world can be overwhelming. I think there is a lot of struggle. I think there is a lot that we are dealing with this men with dads and a lot of different narratives being spewed at us about our experience and about how we should be. The only thing that matters is what we choose to do with all of that.

45:05 And I think it is in our power to become the man and the dads that we are capable of being one step at a time, making each choice in the direction of who we say it is that we want to be and who we can be. And honestly, who are kids need us to be. It's not super complicated. I agree man, I think our life I, you and I are so aligned in that I think our life is a representation of our commitments and habits. And, you know, going back to can I ask you a personal question that has nothing to do with your community? You said something that I wholeheartedly believe in, and that is, I want to be the man that I would aspire my own boys to be.

45:48 You've got one, I've got four. And I know in my mind what I think that looks like, even though I'll be, I fall in my face probably daily sometimes. You know, the only difference between doing this mission for as long as I have is I get to recover a little faster. Maybe I get in front of things a little bit sooner than I otherwise would, but I still fall on my face.

46:09 But I truly believe you know what gets caught is the things that get taught. So it's just a personal question for you. Adam is like, if you think of Noah and you think of the way Adam needs to be operating, you know, when Noah sees you and when he doesn't see you, like, what are some things that are part of your core values of operating as a as a man, as a dad, as a husband?

46:35 What do you want him to catch? I love that question. I love that that idea. Just generally about what you catch, you know, I mean, there's a, there's a very simple version of this which is just a decent human being, right? Somebody who respects others, who treats others with dignity. Who stands up for others? I think that is something that I want him to catch for sure.

47:03 I also just, you know, I and I've mentioned a few times with this notion of curiosity, I think competence is really important. I think curiosity is equally as important. Right? We live in this amazing world. Well, lots of amazing people. Be curious about it. I think that's how we grow, you know, that's how we become better people.

47:26 It can sometimes be easy to fall back on this notion of, I had this very clear vision in this very clear set of beliefs, and this is how I live my life. And I think all that is well and good. But you gained so much by listening and by taking in from others, and by being a little bit humble about that as well.

47:42 So I try to model that with him. Right. And this was a I have no perfect dad. Like there's a lot that I've learned over the three years that he's been in my life. But I think one of the growth areas for me is just stopping and listening to him. Right. He's an interesting kid, man. I'm sure every dad feels like this, but, man, he's funny, he's fun, he's smart, he's interesting, and there is a part of me as a dad that wants to be there to help teach him and guide him and protect and provide for him all of that.

48:19 But the part that I learned is the part of me as a dad that has to just stop and listen and pay attention, right? That's what I want to model for. I'm like, how do you become the person you can be by paying attention to the world around you, by listening and by really being, you know, interested in respecting those who you're connected to.

48:39 You know, when, when we are living in a world where, as you've mentioned, like men in particular, in isolated or lonely and disconnected, we need connection. And so can I model that for him? That's something I try to do every day. Dude, I love that. I want to share a quote with you. This is not my quote. I can't remember who I heard this from, but I think it really resonates what you just said.

49:03 And I'm a huge fan of curiosity. It's one of the things that I coach to with one on one clients and groups is come to every conversation with curiosity and appreciation versus expectation and agenda. You know, you'll totally change the dynamics of the connection like that. But, what I heard was, I can't remember who it was, but he said an interested dad is the most interesting dad on the block.

49:31 And dude, when I, I you know how you hear quotes sometimes and, like, time just seems like it just stops for a moment and you're like, whoa, you know? And, that's one thing that I, I have really latched on to over the past few years, even even in lecturing my kids, which I'm not actually a big fan of there.

49:50 There are times I think we need to pull that lever. We're like, okay, listen, I just I need to advise you now, right? But I only like to pull that lever maybe ten most 20% of the time instead of get really, really curious. And I just start asking really better questions. And I love the questions of like, how or what not.

50:08 Why? Because I think why is kind of more accusatory. But, I think when you lead a kid, you know, in conversation with curiosity and you lead them with, with guided questions, it's it's actually like, I know Noah is young, but like, I mean, I had a conversation with my 12 year old, I think, when he was ten, and I think he was in a situation where he was having some trouble at school with some grades and, and I wanted to advise him on everything that he should do, how he should study a routine around it and all that.

50:36 But when I when I start asking him the what and how questions around how he could make this situation better, what I have found when I have conversations like that is my kids will come up with better ideas than I ever had, and they're more sold on their idea because they're the ones that created it. And I created a connection with them through curiosity and not lecturing.

50:55 So like, you know, just going back to that statement like an interested dad is the most interesting dad on the block. I tremendously see that in your style 100%. I also think it just builds trust, right? I want my kid to always trust me, even if we disagree, even if I do have to lecture or correct a behavior like whatever it is.

51:14 I think the thing that I love, you know, it goes back to what I was saying before, like the incredible opportunity to be a observer and sort of a front row witness to him becoming who he's going to be. His brain all the, you know, our kids brains are incredible, right? Like they are taking in so much and figuring it all out.

51:36 And I think when we start with that curiosity with them, first of all, I think it helps us be better dads. Second of all, I think it just shows a sign of respect that I care about how you're thinking about this, how you're seeing the world, how you're learning and understanding something that may be brand new to you.

51:52 And even if you're sort of off course a little bit, I want to I want to know how you are operating and how you are thinking about this situation or this problem. And if I know that, then I can help guide you. Right? And so, like, I just I cannot, I cannot overstate how much respect I have for him as a he's three years old, right?

52:19 Like he's going to have tantrums sometimes. He's going to do the things that he does as a, as a three year old. But respect for him in the process he's going through of learning how to be a person is, I think, first and foremost, like what I want him to see in value from me. And then I want to help. Just help them along that journey of being who he's going to be. And hopefully modeling that behavior myself because. Because that's the best I can do. I think for most of us, for most dads, that's what we want to be appreciated for. A lot of the time, it's not being the perfect dad. It's not having all the answers.

52:55 It's not. It's just being the dad who's doing his best to guide his kid, to have a good life. So what's to speak to that dad? I love that that guide aspect, you know, versus control or or condescend, you know, because I think I think sometimes even when we're trying to solve our kids problems through lecture, it's it's condescending.

53:19 And I think when you when you get really curious, another thing that I've, I've heard with a child psychologist is you're actually raising a more critical thinker. If you can get really curious and ask questions and get them to articulate more, which, I love the fact that that more men need to do what it is that you're talking about, in my opinion, because it's tremendously helpful.

53:39 So, you know, we could go in, I would think like 5 to 10 more directions, but I want to go in a direction that you want to go into. So what haven't we talked about that we need to talk about? Well, you know, first of all, I appreciate you saying what you just said. It means a lot. I love being a dad. It is, the best thing that could ever happen to me. I always wanted to be a dad. I just want to be clear. I'm not a perfect dad. Right? And I think the thing that, I am always working toward is being real and honest with myself about where my weaknesses are and where, I don't even like kind of weaknesses, just where the areas of improvement are, the things that I can do better.

54:23 And I think that's the when we talk about respecting men and respecting dads, I think just leaving space for that is really important. I'll just give you, like, a very day to day example. Right. We. I, you know, we're fortunate that my, my wife, up until my son, just started preschool a few weeks ago. But, you know, for the first few years, she stayed home with him, and was able to be there most of the time with him, but I would I would be the one that would wake up in the mornings with him.

54:54 Right. And he's an early riser and he's like 5 a.m. type A, 530 type of kid. Yeah, yeah. Ready to go? Like, do you have coffee this morning? What happened? And for a long while, I would get up with him and just be dragging. Not be the sort of present, engaged dad, right? Not be the one who was ready to just meet him where he is and and start the day with him.

55:21 Not that he didn't want to be there with him. It's just like going straight from head on the pill to being dad was tough. And and this is I think we're going back to, like, intentionality. First choice. I intended to be the engaged, present dad in all those moments for all those mornings where he was waking up early, intent wasn't enough.

55:40 I had to, you know, start a new habit for myself where I would wake up earlier at four, 430, be able to actually have that time to shower and get dressed and sort of put my head on straight. And then I was ready to be dad. And and maybe that's sort of a run in the middle, kind of boring day to day story.

55:58 But I think that the, the point that I have is like, and everything that we do, there's always room for improvement. And it is again, back to that intentionality versus choice. Like it's up to us to make the choices that can make us the dads that we want to be. I think just to kind of circle back to why we're here in the first place is like, I just want to respect dads and tell stories about dads who are doing their best, recognizing the imperfections and doing something about it and making choices.

56:28 And, and also do it in a way that feels like fun and engaging and something that, you know, a dad might want to sit and watch as he's scrolling through his, you know, you know, Instagram or YouTube or whatever it is. At the end of a long day to be like, hey, look, I see myself in that dad in that story and, that representation of fatherhood, like, that's me.

56:50 And like, yeah, that guy's not perfect either, but we're trying. So, you know, I, I just, I just think that dads have the power and ability to do so much good for our families and our communities, and I want that desperately to show up more in the stories we tell in the media that they're watching. I hear you, man.

57:12 Let me run another quote, pass you based on what you just said, because I think, I love the fact of not being a perfect dad. Like, I think one of the, one of the ways that, you know, going back to what what is caught is taught, you know, I don't know how you were raised, but I was raised in an environment where mom or dad never apologized for really poor behavior.

57:33 And I there were times when I was a kid and I was like, okay, I know that that was really wrong. And the answer that I got back is, I'm the mom. You're the kid. I don't apologize hard. Stop. Right. And I think one of the best ways like I remember, like, early on in being a dad, dad for 21 years, I would I would think to myself, should I apologize?

57:54 Because what I lose credibility and there and I apologize. I have apologized to my kids more than I can possibly think. The most beautiful thing that's come out of that is humility. And ownership is caught, and it doesn't actually ruin credibility. It actually creates more respect and connection. And what I've noticed is when my kids do something wrong, I'm always blown away because as a kid I was always like, I was their fault.

58:17 They did it first, you know? But my kids would be like, yeah, I did that. No excuses. Here's what I'm gonna do to fix it. And I'm like, and you're 12. Like, no, no, 12 year old that I think. But then again, like I, I've talked to my wife about this. She's like, yeah, but that's, that's the way we operate.

58:33 Like that's the way I operate. And you operate like we, we have ownership. Period. Right. But, you know, going back to what you were talking about, how you'd get up early and, and you I want to catch this because you minimized it and you're like, oh, it might not sound like a big deal. That is a big deal.

58:52 In fact, I would say the simplicity of that gives that that, that intention, like the elegance, the simplicity of it. I was at a retreat two years ago with, we have an entrepreneur community as well. So like business owners and we take them on a retreat every year and we took them through, I think, a marriage session like an evolution.

59:13 It was like two hours. And then we was like, hey, what's your take away? And like four guys in a row out of 15, we're like, I'm just gonna go home and be more present, intentional. I'm going to go home and be more present intentional. I'm going to go home and be more present intentional. And I was like, stop, stop, everybody stop.

59:28 And I was like, if one more guy says, I want to be more present, intentional, I was like, I'm going to kick in the nuts. And of course, like it was all joking and laughter and they all laughed and I laughed and I was like, no, seriously. Like, let's actually get to the how? Like, how do you be more intentional in person?

59:41 Because like, you could get up at 4:55 a.m., you would know a and be like, I'm going to be more intentional, but are you unless you do something that is intentional, that prefaces the intention and yeah, dude, I mean, it's like getting up for, you know, 30 or 30 minutes or an hour earlier to shower, get your get your head right.

1:00:02 That is exactly, I think where the rubber meets the road is when you do things like that. It's not just saying you're going to be intentional, but it's like how you're going to be more intentional. So I really wanted to capture that because I thought that I thought it was really powerful, and I didn't want you to minimize that.

1:00:17 I appreciate that, you know, I also appreciate hearing your story about just apologize. And I think that and that resonates with me too. And like, it can be hard. And I think a lot of how we were raised kind of reflects how we show up. And it takes real choices to change some of that. And, you know, I had a great childhood and my parents are wonderful.

1:00:41 And yelling was a part of how we communicated. I had to make a choice. That is we my life. And I do not aim to be a yelling household. Do we ever slip up? Sure, like people are human. Tantrums happen. But on the whole, you're not a yelling asshole. I think what you're talking about in that, what really resonates with me is like, it's about accountability, right?

1:01:06 It's about if I want to be this sort of manner, this sort of dad, what am I doing to make that reality? And so, you know, I appreciate you lifting up the my process of recognizing where I was falling short in the mornings and doing something about it. But you're doing the same thing. I think millions of dads are doing the same thing of recognizing where we can do better and taking accountability for it, and then acting on it.

1:01:33 That's amazing. All that is amazing, man. It really is. It's like the most fun journey ever. It's, I don't I don't remember at this point not being a dad. It's like two different lives. Do you do you still have you do you still have time or do you have a hard stop? No. Okay. As long as you want to go down here, I want to go.

1:01:53 I want to go for one more element that I think is really important. I want to know one of the one of the things I coached to the most, even though I'm in the dad space, is most men come to my table for help with marriage. And what I have found is that a lot of couples, you know, going to like studies, right?

1:02:09 I mean, two thirds of couples who stay together are either in roommate syndrome or completely and totally disconnected. Only 12% of people that walk down the aisle can actually identify their relationship is working, and there are some symptoms that go with that. We start having kids. We kind of slide that marriage on the back burner, and it never comes back to the front burner.

1:02:27 I think that's a huge, huge disservice to not only us, our wives, but our also also our kids. Because what are we showing our kids? What is caught is taught, right? And if they catch that mom and dad are and roommates and that's normal. What we what we make, what we normalize becomes the norm. I think it's a huge disservice not to create an incredible relationship with your wife.

1:02:48 So I know what I've done over the years, and half my marriage was not so great. The other half has been awesome. But for you. You've been married for a decade. How does Adam go about creating and cultivating an incredible relationship with your wife? Yeah, what a great question. And also, I think one that is always changing, you know, every.

1:03:12 Yeah, every, I know it seriously. Like, we go through all these phases of life, I think like my answer for that before we had Noah. It's very different from my answer for that after we had Noah. My answer now is very different from when he was a newborn, which, you know, I like I honestly like there's there's nothing quite like being a parent to a newborn where your, your, your whole life has been, you know, turned around and you are trying to navigate something that is totally unknown, especially if it's your first child.

1:03:47 And also trying to have that marriage that you're talking about, like, just be real in with you. I think that was probably the hardest. Yeah. As it is for many people. But, you know, I think what it comes down to is, what is sort of the driving force of how you are, the role you want to play in your marriage and that the, the way you want to relate to your partner.

1:04:17 And I hate to be a real cracker, but the choices that you make to back that up. So when when you ask like, what is the thing that, we do, it's because it's actually kind of funny. I just on my, on my screener had a little calendar reminder pop up because I've carved out this is no joke. In 50 minutes we've carved out for Thursdays we're going to have lunch together. It just popped up just a minute, right. It's so easy, given the, like, stream of working life every day and taking care of a kid and all of that. But we said, you know what? At least once a week, we're going to pause everything else.

1:04:53 We, our three year old still naps. Let's hope that continues to use at least 16 years old. I don't know, it's like really great. But we've said on Thursdays, while he's napping, let's just come together and just, like, be us, right? Let's have lunch. So we're going to be doing that, today and, and but anyway, back to I got started by my counter reminder.

1:05:16 But the reality is, like, I think when you choose to show up with genuine respect for who this other person is, you're not going to make all the same parenting decisions. You might have different life. My perspective on life decisions. That's okay. If you show up with genuine respect for who they are and what they're bringing in the table.

1:05:33 You do the same thing that I was talking about before with with my son, like, you just stop and listen. Sometimes I think that's really core to creating a bond that is, that is that that is cohesive and something that you grow together no matter how it evolves. I read this book called us the Relationship Book. It's by Terence, some psychologists who I'm blanking on right now, which is not great.

1:06:00 Terence something. Anyway, it's called ice. And it's really about how like the when you're making decisions in relationship, you're not making a decision. You're not taking an action as an individual, even if you aren't fully aligned with like, the direction that something is heading, you're making it as a unit, like you're always acting in the service of the unit.

1:06:19 And that looked different before kids than it does after kids. But regardless, I think the the things that we do, the conversations that we have, the times we carve out to have those conversations, which clearly has gotten harder to find that time after you have kids, but still just as important, it's all about how do we shape our lives together as a unit.

1:06:46 And I think that just has to be part of every decision that you make. I just again, simplicity is what gives your life, I think, a the, the fruit and the elegance that you're enjoying. You know, I think if more men could take a chapter out of that, like just, hey, every Thursday we have lunch. It's on my calendar.

1:07:06 Jessica and I, we've we've done this, gosh, for a few years now, but every Friday afternoon, I take off and do there. There's probably, like, a thousand things that I could do or probably need to be done before the next week starts. But that is sacred. Absolute time. By noon on Fridays, I take off. I take off work.

1:07:27 I leave everything that's undone. It's just undone. It'll get done sometime. But we have a date day. Our kids are still in school, so we have like 4 to 5 hours that we can go for a hike. We can go out to lunch, we can go rock climbing, we can go work out, we can have sex, we can do whatever, whatever we want.

1:07:47 But what I found is, is that if 2 or 3 weeks go by, like if our schedules get busy and just the Fridays don't happen, or the kids might have a half day or something like that, we tend to start to spin in what we, we, we use this term a lot. We're spinning in different orbits now, and I think if that's and one of the things we always say is we need a date.

1:08:07 We need a date, we need a date. I'll never forget when my when my older kids were younger, like probably like 11 and nine, we were getting ready to go out on a date night. And we, we, we used to do date nights when we do day dates now, but I'll never forget my wife saying this thing that like, literally stopped me in my tracks.

1:08:24 And the kids were like, why do you guys have to go on a date? Why can't we go? Why? Why you guys gotta always go out on date? And she looked at my boys very lovingly and she said, because it's really important to you that me and your dad continue to love each other. And they were like, oh, you know, and, and and then she followed up with, when you guys have girlfriends or when you guys get married, it's really important that you continue to love each other.

1:08:48 And I was like, whoa, oh, I'm married to a great woman. But it sounds like you guys are cut from the same cloth. And you believe those things too? Yeah, I, I man, I love that so much. And, you know, she sounds like a very smart woman, but I, I, I I'll say this like, the reality is I. And you're an entrepreneur, you're, you have your own business like you. You get it as well. Like, life can sometimes get overwhelming, right? Because there's all these demands, all these needs, all these, all these, you know, priorities. There can be lots of important things. They can't all be the same level of important. And so I think as men, we have to decide where our priorities lie.

1:09:33 I love building the Dads Nation and leading this, this media work that I think is, I hope, going to resonate with millions of men. It's not as important as my family. Like at the end of the day, how we show up depends on what we prioritize and we have to make those choices. I agree with you, man. Well said.

1:09:55 I feel like I could literally talk to you for hours. We could go Joe Rogan or Sean Ryan style here right now to go for a mom and a half hours. But, you know, I, I want to make sure that you, you get your lunch date in because that's in, like, nine minutes. So I want to make sure. Where can the men find out more about you following the media that you're creating? Sounds like you're you're you've really created something that a lot of men should be gravitating to versus some of the other toxic things that I think that you and I talked about earlier on the show. So where's the best place for the guys to find you?

1:10:26 Yeah, I really appreciate that. It's just dads initiative is where you can find more information about overall what we're doing when we launch new shows or new media. It's announced there. We also have a Substack where you can just keep up with some of the research and the data and the things that we are learning about what resonates with men along the way.

1:10:46 Because at the end of the day, like our goal is really to make sure that we're providing something that's wanted, that resonates, that feels, worthy of a man's time when he's going online, scrolling, looking for a content or media or information like we want to. We want to be delivering something real. That's, that's, that's doing something for for our audience.

1:11:07 So, go there, check this out if you have any feedback. There's a little forum on the back on the website. You can send me any notes. I will read them all. But yeah, have more folks along for the ride. Sounds great man. We're going to have all the links in the show notes for you guys. Not to worry if you go to that.

1:11:24 Yeah, if you go to the dad Edgecomb forward slash 1546 for this episode again. The dad Edgecomb. Forward slash 1546. Adam. This was an absolute pleasure, man. Like an and such a real conversation. Just. I truly, truly enjoyed this time with you, man. There was so freaking good. I enjoyed it as well. I, I, like you could go on for hours.

1:11:49 Hopefully we we do this again some time because I really love what you're doing, and it's just great to have a real, honest, open conversation about the world we're living in and what we're trying to do in it. I got you, man, I got you. I know this won't be the last time we talk, so, there will be, I'm sure, more conversations to come, brother.