If I don't Make Disciples Our Local Church Dies | DA Horton

0:00 Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Disciple Makers podcast. Today's episode features DA Horton, who argues that if he does not make disciples, his local church is going to die, while also emphasizing that Jesus, not him, builds the church, which removes pressure from performance. Let's take a listen.

0:30 Good afternoon. How y'all feeling? Amen. Amen. I want to start off with a statement that the Lord really impressed upon my heart this morning. It is kind of going to shape the rhythm of our time together with me up here, and it's this simple conviction. If I don't make disciples, our local church dies.

0:51 Let me say that one more time. If I don't make disciples, our local church dies. So the reality of a commitment to discipleship is not something that's cute for a 20-minute dialogue and conversation from a stage. It has to be something that is woven within the DNA of why I live and breathe and have my being on this side of eternity.

1:13 And as I look at this, I think about the fact that I want to pull back from that extreme statement to now nuance it a little bit, is the fact that Jesus is the one who builds his church, not me. I'm called to be the church, not build the church. So if Jesus is building his church, then I can rest assured that I can exhale without the pressure of performance in disciple-making that the work of Jesus does not rise and fall on my local church.

1:42 My local church may not be around five years from now. That does not mean Jesus has failed, and that does not mean that I've failed. What it means is that in his sovereignty of constructing his people and forming and fashioning the bride of Christ, in his sovereignty, unbeknownst to my limited understanding, he just chose not to continue that work through this display of a local church.

2:06 And so that's the tension that I'm constantly walking in. But at the same time, not to cheapen the existence of the local church, I understand that Jesus's work of building his church is demonstrated, it's made visible through the local church that I am called to pastor at. And if we are obedient to the command of Christ in his commission of disciple-making, then he has promised us holistic flourishing in each of our local churches.

2:39 So the main point of my time with you this afternoon is this. The discipleship strategy that I feel compelled to implement consists of three levels of multiplication. The first is my inner circle, which is my wife always, and then one or two other men who are in membership of our local church. Number two is an intermediate council.

3:03 Right now in this season of life, it consists of five men who are members of our church that have said, I feel a leading, a calling, an internal desire to become an undershepherd of the Lord's flock here in Long Beach, California. And then on top of that, there is the prayerful result of a maturing, interdependent congregation that right now has 48 adults and 30 children.

3:32 I'm not the pastor of a megachurch. I don't have 100 people on the membership roll. We're talking grassroots, in the hood, Los Angeles, North Long Beach. We're talking the griminess, the messiness of everything that we read in the scriptures because that is the complex setting that Jesus has called my family and I to live on his mission in that specific environment.

4:00 So much of my conviction roots back to Ephesians chapter 4, specifically verses 1 through 16. So as I talk through my inner circle, I want to go to the word where it says, walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called. It is my conviction based on the man named Mike Pyburn, who many of you may never heard of and never will hear of again, who loved me enough that in 2005, he extended a personal invitation to a committed, formal discipleship relationship with me.

4:34 I had been walking with Jesus in immaturity for nine years until that first formal invitation for discipleship was extended to me by the man who discipled me. And he began to tell me, this relationship is not a one-way street, it is a two-way street. That I am a learner of you and you are a learner of me as we are both learners of Christ.

5:00 And the reality of that conviction then compelled me to open the whole of my life to my wife, to my discipler, and then those that he began to commission me to now go and do what was done in my life. So this group of individuals that I am walking in life with, these two men and my wife in the current season, they hold my reputation.

5:24 Twitter doesn't, Facebook doesn't, people that slander me, people that disagree with me, or people that praise the teaching ministry that Jesus effectively uses through my frail stammering lips, none of them hold my reputation. My wife and these two men that are living in obscurity to the rest of the world, but in Long Beach, California, they hold my reputation.

5:47 Because when I'm attacked, I turn to them. When I have blind spots, they're the ones uncovering them. It is a fact that I want them to see that I am walking in a manner worthy of the calling that I have been called and that I am doing also the same thing in their lives. Highlighting blind spots, engaging the word of God when there's a crisis moment.

6:08 When we're more in our feelings, it's recalibrating our emotionalism back to the truthfulness of God's word so we can move with a more stable, discerning posture as we're navigating through the tensions of life and the environment we live in. We're navigating in a complex setting of Los Angeles and Long Beach, but we're also in complex situations wherever you may live because I think we're in this rhythm of Matthew 28 where Jesus commands us to teach those that we are discipling to observe all that he has commanded.

6:45 And the reality of what he has commanded us is that there are social commands and there are spiritual commands. And one of the greatest detriments in my limited assessment of American evangelicalism is that we have put too great of a focus on the spiritual commands and not enough focus on the social commands of Christ.

7:06 That we will advocate for repentance, spiritual disciplines, yes and amen, but we will not make love my neighbor who is unregenerate, non-believing, non-follower of Christ a priority in the rhythm of our Jesus following. We have done this. The aroma that we have sent off in creating this false dichotomy is a stench to the non-believing world who is watching us.

7:37 And they are turned off of our Messiah whose life rhythm was the perfect harmonious balance of social and spiritual. But in addition to that we have the complexity of Ephesians chapter 2 verses 2 and 3 because in that rhythm of life we see that there is a worldly system. None of us would argue against the worldly system.

7:57 It is the rhythm of this world that is governed and massaged and pied piper, if you will, by the prince of the power of this age who is the God of this age, Satan himself, who leverages his influence over the unregenerate sons of disobedience who are human beings that are unregenerate in leadership positions of power to navigate the course of life away from the cross, away from the truth of God's word, doubting the existence of God, doubting the goodness of God, doubting the word of God.

8:30 That is the rhythm of life for this world. So we are trying to walk that balance of social and spiritual obedience to the words of our risen Lord while living in opposition to our flesh, the evil one, and a spiritual, sinful, systemic principality system that is manifested through sinful, social, systemic realities that are opposite of God's written word.

9:03 All of us are in complex situations. It's not just Los Angeles. It's any area of this world where the touches and the curse of the fall has been basically set free, and that is every square inch of this world. But yet I'm reminded of Abraham Kuyper who clearly communicated when it comes to this world, when it comes to this universe, our King Jesus is the one who says, there is not one square inch of this entire world and universe where I have not declared that is mine.

9:40 So we don't walk as victims of an oppressive system. We walk in victory that our Savior has secured while we face opposition, while we face spiritual and social attacks because it is in those fires of trial and suffering that discipleship flourishes. It's in that tension. So as my wife and these two men are walking with me, we are all committed to doing this in all humility, gentleness with patience, bearing with one another in love, and we are all eager to maintain the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace.

10:21 Now everything I just said is legit work. Discipleship is not for the lazy. It's not. It is work. It is getting together at 5.30 in the morning. It is saying I'm not going to watch the Dodgers game tonight. It's saying that you mean more to me than World Series game number three if necessary. And that's a lot coming from me, especially when you're down 0-2.

10:50 But it's also saying that I am committed to this relationship because when I launch you out, you must have even greater fervor for the one that you're called to disciple so that we don't lose what Christ has given His disciples who over the next three millennia have successfully handed down generation to generation.

11:10 That helps us in America recognize the Christian faith did not start in 1776. Our legacy stretches back over three millennia. This is nothing new. It may be new to the nonbeliever, but it's not new to the covenant people of God. So when we recognize that it's time to wipe the ashes off of biblical Jesus following Christianity and recalibrate it and introduce it to society as a whole like our mothers and fathers did when they held the hands of those who were sick with the plague and they welcomed them with a dignifying death and a proper burial because they respected the Imago Dei even when they contracted the plague.

11:57 And our fathers and mothers died in the streets of Rome because of this plague because they were convicted to show the compassion of Jesus by holding a disease-infested, even unregenerate human being and giving them a death that says, you will not die alone. That's the faith that shows throughout the bloodline of our King Jesus in this one new humanity that He is forming.

12:26 That's our faith. So when I look at this, that's when I recognize the relationships are worth the work. The relationships are risky, but the reward of seeing spiritual maturity and the Christian faith handed down to another generation of Jesus followers way, way, way outweighs the risk and the work. See when we're talking about what Paul is saying, we have to understand that these relationships run well when there's constant maintenance.

12:58 It reminds me of my first car, 1988 Ford Escort, black hatchback. Driving that in the hood, it wasn't 1988 when I got that car, it was 2001. It wasn't fresh off the lot. It broke down. I had to put carburetor cleanser every time before I started my car and prayed that the Holy Spirit would start that engine and all them pistons would be working and all the spark plugs were working.

13:26 Many times it broke down on the freeway and I had to call my dad to come pick me up. But the reality of that car is that it took a lot of babying. It took a lot of maintenance that I had to know that if I want to get from point A to point B in that car, then I got to coax that thing. I got to keep working on that thing.

13:42 I got to keep maintenance in that thing. Now our discipleship relationship should be more valuable than a piece of metal in an engine that gets us from point A to point B. So the work of the investment of maintenance, that relationship is well worth the investment. So how do I do that? Well, regular attention and checking in with the individuals and confessing our sins and going to the Scriptures to receive assurance of forgiveness and showing the Scripture as the balm that heals our heart wounds is that we get together with our wives and we put times on calendars.

14:17 And my wife is discipling these brothers' wives and we put times on calendars with all of us present so that we know our family rhythms are dictated and driven by our discipleship rhythms. They're not dichotomized. They are one and the same. We want our children to see this. When my kids are asking, are the ladies coming over for discipleship?

14:35 Dad, are you getting with the fellas tonight? They're recognizing discipleship is normal for the Jesus follower. It's not a tack on. It's the breath that we breathe. And when they begin to see people cycled and cycled, we let them know there's a time limit on this relationship. And halfway through that expiration time, I'm already challenging them to grab ahold of somebody else and do unto them as I've done unto you.

15:02 And then I expand our relationship to not just maintenance, but now how can they now be greater prepared to follow that master plan of evangelism, which is discipleship? How can they be ready to be launched, not hoarded, but launched so they can go and do the same so that I can be freed up to start this walk with two other individuals?

15:23 So that leads to the intermediate council. All that work is the inner circle. See, the intermediate council in a church plant that we're in, it's multi-ethnic. It's made up of men I've observed over the course of time that I see living out the qualifications of an elder. But I approached them and their wives as me and my wife prayed and assessed the character of the individuals from a distance back in April and sat down with them and laid out a plan that I said will probably change three weeks from now.

15:52 It doesn't lead to being put on staff with money. It's not glorious. It's not going to lead to things that you may think. It's going to be challenging. It's going to be stressful. So we gave those couples two months to pray and prepare. And then we presented the people that said, yes, I'm in to the congregation and made them aware of what's going on, that for six months we would focus on 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, 1 Peter 5, that they will be focusing on their life rhythm, the qualifications, how are they leading their home in addition to working on handling the Word of God, sermon prepping, getting in the pulpit so they can cut their teeth and stumble and work through the nuances and the awkwardness of public speaking so that people would begin to see leadership

16:37 is becoming more established. But these individuals, some of them have education. Some of them don't have education. Some of them have church experience and leadership. Some of them have been waiting to be formally discipled for a long time, just like I was for nine years. And then when God intersected my life with theirs, I assessed you are further along down the road than you think you are.

17:00 You just needed somebody outside of yourself to affirm and confirm and now ask you to pray about this position. And so we said we'll take six months to work through that licensure process and then that would lead to a 12-month elder in training process where everything is done in the openness of the church and between the family.

17:19 Why would I want to set things up this way? Ephesians 4, 7 through 11, in Ephesians 4, 7 we see that the gift of grace is given to every single believer, that is salvation. Every believer has been given the gift of grace. But in verse 8 through 10 we see something very interesting. The loose quoting of Psalm 68, 18, and in that quoting the psalmist is communicating the reality of a victorious king who won the battle and is now sharing the spoils of victory with his own people.

17:50 And then Paul begins to then truly help us understand the victory of Jesus Christ. But then that also helps us understand that if he is giving gifts to the church, the gifts that he is giving is not salvation, it's the people, it's the men and women. Every single man and woman in our local church is a gift from King Jesus to that local church.

18:15 They need to be told that. They need to have that truth massaged into their heart. You are not a burden, you are a blessing. You are a gift from King Jesus who is building his church to help build this local church. And then that leads to verse 11 where Jesus also gives gifted leaders with specific giftings in order to equip the saints to do the work of ministry.

18:42 Much of my shaping has come from Alan Hirsch and his work on 5Q and things of that nature when it comes to that perspective. And so when I have identified these individuals, I've brought them through various assessments and we see who is apostolic, which means who is a visionary, who is prophetic, especially in a society with a lot of ills where we say where do we line in the word of God, in the heart of God on immigration?

19:06 Where do we line on education reform? Where do we line with the LGBTQI agenda? Where is the framework given by God that transcends culture and transcends humanistic reinterpretation? Where do we frame this out? What about the evangelist who is burdened for the lost? What about the shepherd teachers, which I view as one gifting, not two separate ones?

19:28 And how do we have all four of these made visible in the leadership so that we are firing from all cylinders, from every nuance and perspective of giftedness to now be more robust in equipping the people for familial interdependence? So you have the interdependent congregation, which I believe is the result that we're praying for.

19:50 Maturity is the goal of discipleship, but maturity is gained through suffering. If you want to mature as a local body, then you must say we must form our togetherness while we are suffering. But it takes leadership to set the theological framework. My professor in seminary said it is better to form your theological framework before the crisis rather than dangerously forming it while in crisis because the foundation will be iron and clay with mixed emotions and exegetical work that has been influenced by humanism in the midst of suffering.

20:25 So be proactive in setting that theological framework and living it out and massaging these truths of remembrance while the crisis is happening and taking place. Our goal in leadership, according to that passage, is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. And as the worship team comes back up, this is what I want to close with.

20:47 That equipping the saints for the work of ministry means preparing people by placing them in a position to do what God has put on their heart to do. You've seen it referenced with the Los Angeles Dodgers. I think they are a good illustration to close with. The Los Angeles Dodgers is not just a 25-person roster that plays.

21:07 No, there are coaches. There's a GM. There are managers. There are trainers. There are specialty coaches for various specifics and positions. There are the individuals that do laundry because they have to have clean uniforms when they get on the field to play. As pastors, it's best that we diversify our leadership team.

21:26 But as pastors, we recognize we're player coaches because we have to be engaged in the work as well while we're doing the equipping, while we're leading, while we're shepherding. And we're showing them what this looks like. And the way that we're doing that is in the pulpit, in our sermons. We are telling them the importance of discipleship rhythms.

21:46 We're not saying this is something you can consider. This is something you're commanded to do. But then they're getting it from their pastor who is an example of living out these relationships at the same time while preaching and exhorting the people to replicate as I'm replicating Paul who replicated Christ.

22:03 And then there are the peers. Training our people. Then when you hear people talk about there's no real relationships, everything is superficial. The first question we ask is, who are you walking in discipleship with? Cut the games. We have an enemy that is looking for weak sheep so that he can steal, kill, and destroy.

22:22 Cut the games. The reality is, who are you living in intimate intentionality with? Because if you were having those kind of relationships, you wouldn't say this church is superficial. Because you're countering those lies of the enemy by living out discipleship rhythms. So that's why I say, if I don't make disciples, our local church will die.

22:50 Do I believe it is Jesus' will for the local church to die? No, I don't. But I also am comforted by the fact that no matter what happens a year from now, ten years from now, five years from now, Jesus is Lord, he's building his church, and I'm awaiting his return. Would you pray with me? Father, as we have walked through these truths, I pray that you would help every hearer contextualize these things to where they are.

23:18 Comfort them, bring clarity, conviction, and challenge where it's needed. And as we enter into this time of worship, allow our hearts to be reflective in who you are, in the Messiah, risen Lord, conquering King that we pledge allegiance to primarily. You are working these things out. None of us are experts in perfectly doing the work of discipleship.

23:44 So thank you for doing it perfectly on our behalf. Thank you that your perfect righteousness covers us, even in our sinfulness, even in our brokenness, even in our blind spots. Thank you for removing the pressure of performance from us and freeing us to walk in obedience. May we walk with diligence. In your name we pray, Jesus.

24:08 Amen. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening today to this episode of the Disciplemakers Podcast. Please check us out next time for more great content.