Why Evangelism and Discipleship Must Work Together | Bart Rendel & Vince Antonucci

0:11 Hey guys, this is Josh Howard with discipleship.org. We are on site at the Spire Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana right now, and I've got 2 good friends of mine, Bart Rendell and Vince Antonucci. Vince and I actually met now several years ago, and have become really good friends over the last several years. And then Bart and I have met recently, but have also become good friends. Bart leads, or helps lead, Intentional Churches. And then Vince has been an incredible church planter, author, speaker. What else, Vince? Writer. Yeah, there you go. A lot of good stuff. There you go. Incredible Dodger fan.

0:47 There you go. Awesome. And so we're gonna talk today just a little bit about what Intentional Churches and Vince is doing around evangelism together. And then also about what we're all gonna be doing together realm of disciple-making, because honestly, globally, when we say disciple-making, it actually does involve both evangelism and helping people grow and become disciples who make disciples. Unfortunately, in the West, we've kind of divorced those 2 things where we've separated them, where evangelism is one thing, disciple-making is another. And so let's, in this conversation, try to bring those 2 things back together on how they empower one another and really come together as one thing. And so why don't you guys

1:24 first just unpack a little bit, uh, you know, what you guys are doing together in order to help empower the churches especially in America, really get outreach-focused and disciple-making-focused? That's good. Okay, well, I'll give you some context and then you can kind of dig into, you know, the nuts and bolts maybe of what we're developing.

1:42 So you're right, we believe deeply that disciple-making is both the combination of reaching someone and then walking with them as they grow and form in Christ. And so Intentional Churches for a long time has worked with leadership teams to try to get them from a leadership team perspective to be more evangelistically focused. And so these churches over years now, because we're a learning community, were saying to us like, hey, it's one thing for the leadership team to know how to lead a church that's focused on reaching people and growing them up, but our people, the congregation's gotta basically be deployed to do this. And so we just prayed and prayed and God, has answered some prayers really through your relationship, but also

2:29 through Vince's relationship to begin to build some equipping for the congregation, and we believe it's not something you can do just in a snap of your finger, but it's going to take a minute to actually not just equip people, but to change ultimately the culture of the church and permanently deploy them in this way we're talking about. And so Vince and I are friends, and, uh, you've had a heart for this. Maybe you can talk a little bit about your, your take on evangelism, your heart for it and stuff, and, uh, what we've, what we've been working on together. Yeah, sure. And Vince, before you jump in, dude, what I love about what you guys are doing together is that not only are you helping churches

3:09 shift the culture of what they're about, but Vince, I know your heart has been— I mean, you've been a natural evangelist for a long time. It's really your, your, the heart that you've lived with, even in your church planting efforts and all that. But not only shifting culture, but also empowering everyday people to really go live this out and to go after their ones so that they're actually seeing the gospel, uh, transform people's lives in front of their eyes, right? Yeah. And so, which is a, which is a huge piece. So anyway, I just wanted to highlight that because I love that that's a part of what you guys are doing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love what you said, that, you know, we have divorced evangelism and

3:45 discipleship, made them two different things, but Jesus didn't do that. He said go and make disciples by baptizing them. And so his idea of making a disciple starts with the person not being a Christian who's still needs to be baptized. And so we believe that discipleship starts with evangelism and discipleship leads to evangelism. If you're discipling someone and they don't do evangelism, did you really disciple them?

4:08 Since that's the Great Commission that Jesus gave us. I thought as long as they know the really good stuff, like, that's enough, right? Yeah. And so if they're not doing the one thing that Jesus said, make sure you do, something went wrong with the whole discipleship process. But what we're doing, which is super fun, So what we know is most Christians don't share their faith.

4:28 There's some research that says up to 95% of Christians will never share their faith with anyone outside their immediate families, and that's not okay. And so the crazy thing is churches act like it is. You know, I'm gonna talk about this tomorrow here at the conference, but if a pastor learned, hey, 95% of your church doesn't give a dollar to the offering, they wouldn't go, huh, okay. They would be like, we gotta do something. But the reality is 95% of your church isn't sharing their faith, which is the thing Jesus told us to do more than anything else. And, uh, and we're like, well, it is what it is, and we can't do that.

5:01 And so it's been really cool. We've kind of developed this partnership, uh, where their passion and their infrastructure and reach with all the churches and kind of my whole life has been about evangelism. And so we've created this equipping initiative where a church gets a sermon series and a book that we've created, which is 30 devotionals all about evangelism, and these 4 seminars that are equipping seminars and a coach that works alongside of you and just all this stuff so that, um, you're first and foremost, your people are actually equipped to do what Jesus called them to do. And, um, and second, that it starts to infiltrate and get deep down into the culture of your church. And it's not just a series we did. Oh yeah,

5:44 remember that series? That was a good time for us. But it actually changes the direction and the identity of who we are as a church, that we are disciple-making church, and that's has to start with reaching people who are far from God. Amen, dude. I mean, honestly, when it, when it comes to being a disciple of Jesus, right, sometimes I think that word, it's lost its real impact and power, you know, because we throw it around so often. And I know all of us, I mean, in the church world and just in the Christian world, we— none of— nobody would say, well, I don't want to make disciples, like, that's not what I feel called to do. We would all aspirationally say that's our goal and that's our vision. But the reality is, if we call ourselves disciples but

6:22 we're not doing the stuff that Jesus did, like you said, we're not loving people well, we're not proclaiming the gospel to people, we're not really helping them look and act and love more like Jesus themselves, then we're really not fulfilling really any of the calling that Jesus has given us in the church, right? And so I love that you guys are trying to put this back into the hands of everyday people. I mean, that's one of the main principles, guys, of disciple-making movements across the world is reclaiming this idea of the priesthood of all believers, how every single one of us are empowered by the Holy Spirit to share our faith, make disciples, and really begin to launch people out and mobilize more people into the

6:59 kingdom, right? Absolutely. And so I love that that's what you guys are up to. Let's talk for a minute about, uh, the— how discipleship.org and Centennial Churches and Vents, like how we're all thinking through what this can look like together as we really try to help holistically shift the culture of church in the United States as well as help empower and train people in order to see that happen.

7:22 Yeah, man, I'm so excited about it. So I'll give you my take and you give the potential in the relationship that's just emerging. Hey, it's your— you're like, you know, you're the one that said we got to do something together, right? That's true. So maybe you're the matchmaker. Yeah, right. So absolutely, here's why God was So I'm trying to live this out myself. I'm using the stuff that we actually teach, and Vince is challenging, not knowing you are, you're challenging me to live this out. I'm finding the joy in it as my friends are getting closer to— I mean, literally one of my friends is texting me at this event. And so anyway, I was just like, that's way more important than any conversation I

8:02 could be having here. One of your lost friends. One of my lost friends. I'm sorry. Really close, I think, to accepting Christ. Anyway, that it occurred to me— I don't have any lost friends. I don't. Yeah, right. Like, well, that's— and that— isn't that the truth though? Like, in church leadership, man, most of us, the reality is we don't— we don't— we're never around lost people, right? And that's a major issue. So anyway, yeah, studies say it's like within just a few years. That's true.

8:25 So yeah, uh, my point was it occurred to me, if my friend comes to Christ, then we've got to— I got to figure out how to walk with them. Yeah, I need a pattern and some teaching, some methods, and I need a community, which my new small group is going to commit to do this together. So the exploration with d.org is going to be how do we build something together that can kind of accomplish both purposes, both the reaching through what Vince has kind of equipped us all in to reach our friends, but then also how do we walk with them as they grow in Christ and are spiritually formed? That sounds Like something easy to do. We just walk with them. But the truth is we need teaching on that. We need principles. And I can't wait. We're starting a cohort with

9:10 you guys where some of the churches that have worked with us are going to explore this more together. And I'm curious why you thought this was— why was this a good idea, Vince? Why was this a good idea? I think, yeah, so I've been friends with Josh for I don't know how long, 10+ years. And went to India twice and Sri Lanka once with him to see him and been friends with Bart longer than that.

9:32 And so I knew both of you guys and you didn't know each other, not really. And so I just knew, again, this idea that there's people who do evangelism, people who do discipleship, and I'm like, that's stupid. And you're both people who think that's stupid. And so I'm like, hey, I got 2 friends who think that's stupid and they both are leading these organizations.

9:49 You guys should meet and talk about what's stupid. So what you're saying is stupidity brought us together. I love it. Yeah. And so it was just like, I was just like, I wonder if And I'm doing a little bit of work with you and a little bit of work with you. I don't work for either of you, but I'm like, man, it would be really cool for you guys to talk and maybe there's some ways you could work together. And so, yeah, I'm just the, whatever, the matchmaker guy. Well, and thank you, Vince, for doing that. And honestly, for both you guys and all of you watching, here's what I'm most excited about to kind of bring it down and kind of let you know why this is important for all of you watching. It's because the reality is here in the US

10:23 church, If we can get this combination right where we're empowering and equipping the saints to actually be disciples who make disciples, who share their faith, and then that cycle continues that we're reaching lost people, training and equipping them, and then they're reaching more lost people and doing the same thing. If we can get this system right and kind of crack that code on what it looks like, man, the, the literally the, the foundations of the U.S. church would be radically changed so that we're saturating regions with the gospel. And that's what our heart is. What does it look like for the kingdom to win? What does it look like for the kingdom to win in your area, in your region? This isn't just about church growth, guys. Like,

10:59 I could care less if my personal church brand grows if the kingdom is losing ground. That doesn't make sense. We've got to make sure the kingdom is multiplying and that we personally are living this out. And honestly, what you guys are doing at Insatiable Churches and Venture helping this and the partnership we have is really trying to say, how do we have a pathway that is going to actually lead to helping us as individuals and as churches see this happen so that culture is shifted? And so anyway, that's what I'm most excited about. I hope it's a blessing to you. Reach out to us. How can they reach out to you guys if they're interested in maybe some of the evangelism equipping and things like that?

11:33 intentionalchurches.com. That's it. And okay, my contact info is actually on there. Um, I, I can connect you with Vince. Vince, you got Any more than that? Yeah. All right. Okay. Awesome. But that'll do it. And you can learn more about any of this and we'd love to engage churches. By the way, I just thought of something to end it. Yeah. I had a church that's in the middle of deploying this equipping. It's a very large church numerically.

12:00 And the discipleship guy was like, to his team, they just told me this at the event. What if this actually works? Are we prepared for thousands of people? I'm like, hey, now that's, that's the right kind of problem. Yeah, amen, dude. And so why don't we ask ourselves that? What if this actually works? And are our churches and us as individuals prepared for the move of God that we see coming in the United States? Amen. And, and let's prepare and get ready. Amen. Hey, thank you guys.

12:31 We love y'all. Thank you guys for being a part of this. And, uh, yeah, check us out at discipleship.org. Where we've got a lot of great resources. And go to intentionalchurches.com and check these guys out. We love y'all, and we'll see you next time.