3 & Out - NFL Week 7 Reaction: Seahawks DOMINATE Chiefs on SNF, Lions DEFEAT NFC North rival Packers, J.J. McCarthy & Giants UPSET Texans + Folds of Honor CEO Interview

0:14 What is going on, my people? How are we doing? John Middlecoff, Three and Out Podcast. Hopefully you are doing well. We got a lot going on. We just witnessed Seattle kind of getting their swag back. Dominated the Chiefs. We will dive into that game. J.J. McCarthy resurrecting his career. The Packers and Lions game was bananas. The Ravens game did not go well without Lamar in the second half.

0:45 Joe Burrow dominated Indianapolis. Probably needs to trade everybody. We'll just fly around the NFL. A couple quick college thoughts. I interviewed last week the founder of Folds of Honor, a big charity organization that's been a part of this podcast for a couple years. Holds a special place to me and my family with what my dad went through losing his brother in Vietnam and impacts so many people around the country in terms of first responders as well.

1:18 giving scholarships to families that lose a loved one in the line of duty, protecting us, whether it be in the military, whether it be firefighters, police officers. So I talked to Lieutenant Colonel Dan Rooney, who flew F-16s for close to two decades. And the guy's just a stud. And I gave to the charity last year. We doubled down on the investment this year. and plan to do it for a long time moving forward. So had a good conversation with him. It'll play after we talk some football.

1:54 And I recorded a podcast earlier with Colin as well. So a lot of content out there today. And you guys know the drill. If you listen on Colin's feed, make sure you subscribe to Three and Out. We're up on Netflix. I did a quick reaction after the J.J. McCarthy game. And we'll just keep the content flowing and get ready for Eagles-Cowboys Monday night football. Let's just dive into the Sunday night game. I was big on Seattle coming into this spot because I thought it was must-win.

2:22 I thought their backs were against the wall. They're 3-3 coming off just a rough four-day stretch of losing to the Niners, losing to Denver, Darnold imploding. making some awful decisions, a bunch of interceptions in that span of time. I mean, just critical, back-breaking interceptions. And to me, the number one thing tonight was just to get him back on track.

2:49 And listen, the Chiefs are really good on defense. They have, I think, what most would consider a Hall of Fame-level coordinator. You know, we put head coaches into the Hall of Fame. We obviously put players in the Hall of Fame. Hell, we even put some media members in the Hall of Fame. If you could put coordinators, guys who the majority of their career were coordinators, even if they got a head coaching stint like Fangio, Spags, you know, kind of in that world, to me, he's 100% a Hall of Famer.

3:18 He's one of the greatest defensive play callers and coaches we've ever seen. It's a tough spot. I mean, the Chiefs, they're a little younger now with Delane playing outside corner. But it was like, we got to get them back. And, you know, Collinsworth said something tonight that I was like, ah, if you're reading between the lines. He's like, he didn't tell me this, but it sure feels like Mike McDonald got more involved with the offense and the philosophical ideas going behind this game plan. I went, yeah, he probably told you that. You've called a lot of Ravens games over the years. You now have called a few Seattle games.

3:59 I would imagine you guys probably got a pretty good rapport. I wouldn't be stunned at all. Listen, I've just been doing this long enough to know Mike, Chris, BSing, talking. Yeah, I got him helping flurry out a little bit. Hey, we need to do this, this, and this. It makes it easier on him and harder on the defense to scheme against him. The number one key is, and it was shown last week on the Thursday night game, is he was holding the ball basically longer than any other quarterback in the league. And this is all like milliseconds, quarter seconds. We're not talking the difference of like two seconds and eight seconds. You're talking like high two seconds and low to mid three seconds. And tonight he almost

4:43 cut it by a full second. And it felt that way. Have him get rid of the ball quickly. Have plays that are schemed. Have him get rid of the ball. Basically take the thinking away from him. Which I think it's easy to get in your own head. He's a guy who's had up and down career. And just have him get rid of the ball quickly. And what was his one huge mistake tonight when he kept a play alive?

5:09 And he threw that ball in the back of the end zone, which ended up not costing them. Which honestly was, you know, Butker, it was funny as I was getting, we usually do a little bath at halftime of the night game. And I look up, and he just kicks it off, and then I'm taking him to the bath. And as it's up, I'm just thinking, it's good. And then it comes back from halftime. It's at zero. I was like, I swear Butker made that kick, but clearly it came up short. I mean, they got extremely lucky that they didn't get three points there. That would have been being conservative, a three-point swing. Potentially, you know, you're talking a 10-point swing if you get a touchdown. Because you would have scored seven. Instead of you scoring seven,

5:52 they score three. Hell, we could be conservative or, I mean, just a little more aggressive. It's a seven-point swing. But because of the way their defense played, and we'll get into that in a second, it didn't cost them. But you saw twice, I mean, on the first touchdown, on the darn old kind of lollipop up in the air, down the sideline. is football porn, him and JSN. The catch, the touchdown, it doesn't get any better. And then the next time that happens, when Darnold throws a pick, I think two plays later, that's as good of a throw as you can make. And they did a really, really good job tonight, just settling him down, having him get rolling, because listen, you can't depend on him to throw it

6:36 50 times a game. And I can imagine Mike sitting down with his first-time coordinator goes, That can't happen again. And I would imagine Brian Fleury, if he just took some notes around Kyle, that's not the way he's been trained to coach. But sometimes a game, it starts playing out differently. You're behind. Maybe you don't even realize all of a sudden you've thrown and you've called more pass plays than you like. And maybe some of it he's checking out too because they're, you know, stuff in the box and he doesn't get a look that he likes. Tonight, 28 pass attempts. And, you know, you probably could have kept that even a little bit lower. Clearly helps when you run for 150 yards. Now, you know, Wilson runs

7:18 for 100. He had the 20-yard run toward the end of the game. That's the touchdown run. But the easiest way to help the quarterback is obviously run the football. And I would imagine they're going to be in the trade discussion for any of these sweet running backs on the trade block. And two, you've got to get rid of the ball quickly. Well, what happened tonight? He had a stretch. I think I heard Arlovsky say through three games, you know, leading into this game, it was like 14 or 15 sacks. He had been sacked basically like almost 10 times in a two-game stretch. He was getting hit too much. And when you're getting sacked, I mean, every once in a while, maybe a guard or a center just gets smoked and you get sacked immediately, like Aaron

7:57 Donald or J.J. Watt in their prime. But I would imagine a lot of sacks come from holding the football too long, just in general in football, high school, college, and pro. So if you can get rid of the ball quickly, it's like, how couldn't I sack Tom Brady and Peyton Manning more? They couldn't move because they didn't hold on to the football. I mean, if it wasn't there, they just throw it away. They don't give a shit about how it looks. And I think part of the problem with Darnold, which also makes him, you know, the ceiling higher, is he's got like a little farm to him.

8:27 He's got a little Mahomes. Like, fuck it, I'll just keep this thing alive. Even on the play that he throws the interception, he's scrambling around. You're like, this is going to be sweet. The ball leaves his hand. You're like, this is going to be incredible. Then all of a sudden it's like two Kansas City Chiefs, you know, converging.

8:45 And you don't even see a dude in a Seahawks jersey converging. Luckily, sometimes it's why pick six happen, why they can go 90 to 100 yards when they happen in your own red zone, because that guy's already behind everybody, and the closest people to him are typically the offensive linemen. They got no chance to catch him. It's extremely rare on that play, not exactly that play, but on a play near the goal line, if you throw a hit and a guy in stride, it takes DK Metcalf hawking Buda Baker. But at one point in time, you thought, like, could this guy take it to the house? And he didn't.

9:23 He got caught. Then, obviously, Butker missed the kick. But, you know, Darnold made a couple passes tonight that were just, if it was a golf shot, you'd be like, that's as pure as it gets. It was just beautiful. And if you remove the one mistake, which in the grand scheme of things did not cost him, but I think can cost him if you can't remove that. He has to get away from making, it's one thing, like, you saw some interceptions today, some balls get tipped, they fly in the air, it happens. And then you see balls, I mean, Goff had a couple of these today, that are hitting guys in the hands. Those are killers. Because one, especially hitting a guy in stride, at minimum, he's going to gain some extra yards. His momentum is going the

10:05 other way where all the offensive guys are going this way. But I thought it was an unreal performance based on what we saw up until that interception the first half. Even Collinsworth is like, this is a different guy. And here's one superpower he has. And I think this is a superpower most successful people have. You can't just dwell on the shitty. You know, we all make mistakes. Hell, I probably make 10 today. And, you know, hey, on to the next thing. You know, sometimes I'm like, Maria, we got to move on to the next. You know, sometimes women, they like holding on to those. It's like, I don't want to fight about this anymore. Let's just move to the next thing. That's how my brain works.

10:43 Partly because I've been trained to think like that being around football people. You're around coaches. You work for these guys. You don't dwell on things. You get screamed at, berated one minute. By lunch, no one even knows that happened. I've been trained since my 20s to operate under that mindset.

11:02 It's not how a lot of people live in society. It's definitely not how a lot of people in corporate structures work. When a big blow-up happens, people hold on to it for a long period of time. And maybe this has benefited me. Maybe sometimes it doesn't benefit me. Definitely in personal relationships, I'm just on to the next thing.

11:20 That didn't even matter. Who cares? Not everyone thinks like that. But you have to as a quarterback. And I think that is a strength Sam has. And the other strength Seattle has is their defense. Holy shit. And this was, regardless, I would imagine Mike with that group was like... we're winning this game no matter what. And it starts with us.

11:41 And this is the stat that why you felt pretty good about their chances coming into this game is the Chiefs had been dominating on the ground with Kenneth Walker. It says he was averaging 133 yards. It feels like, and it shows you, we just don't have that many of those guys anymore. When a guy is averaging like 130, 140 yards a game in this modern day NFL, it feels like 200 yards a game. It felt like when you would watch Kenneth Walker, you'd be like, He's getting seven yards of pop every time he touches the ball, and they're handing it to him 20 times a game.

12:11 Sometimes the stats didn't equal what you were witnessing. You're like, this guy is completely dictating the terms of their first five football games because he had. And this team hadn't allowed a 100-yard rusher in basically two years. Well, it wasn't going to start tonight specifically with a guy. Think how easy it is to take pride. And listen, they miss him. I see some people are like... You know, billionaire propaganda, them talking about not able to pay Kenneth Walker $ 15 million. Guys, Google how much they gave JSN and Witherspoon. What was that combined? Like $ 250 million? And listen, they might have missed on the Shahid contract. If they could have a do-over, they probably wouldn't redo that contract.

12:56 I know he got banged up tonight. Hopefully he's not seriously injured. But they made a decision. They took the more dynamic guy and that position just pays. He got 17 a year. They're just more expensive. If he would have gone in the open market, he probably would have gotten more. But I just think that they made a decision.

13:16 It's not like they pay nobody. It's not like they're cheap. Again, they gave two high-end guys an astronomical amount of money. Made them the two highest paid players at their position. And they deserve it. I think sometimes with running backs, you've got to pick and choose. And the Chiefs are very happy to have him. But tonight's a bad matchup.

13:34 With the physicality up front, their team speed at linebacker and DB, all their DBs tackle, you're just not going to be able to run on them. So if I had to guess coming into this game, I would have been like, I think that is going to be a well-earned 50-yard performance. Well, he had 14 carries for 36 yards.

13:54 He had nowhere to go. It felt like he was running just as hard as he normally runs, but they just gang tackle and surround you so quickly. And the thing with the Chiefs is like, you know, Tyreek Hill and, you know, Jeremy Macklin and Dwayne Bowe ain't exactly out there a wide receiver. So if you're not going to be able to run the ball against a defense, the one clip tonight of them running worthy on a deep route and Eamon Worry, who looks like Shaquille O'Neal next to him, is going stride for stride with him. And even Chris was like, no one else in the league would have a safety that could go stride for stride with a 4-2 guy. And he's right. It doesn't exist.

14:36 Their personnel on defense is basically unlike anyone else. And when they play right, one, they hit as hard as any team in the league. And the Chiefs do too. I mean, tonight was, there were some hits tonight. We were eating dinner when the sack on Mahomes and the ball went flying, and I kind of went down for a bite, and I just heard Maria go, oh! I was like, what happened? And I look up, and then they show the replay, and I mean, Mahomes is just crunched, ball flying. What a badass. Mahomes still ends up on the ball. And there was even a play earlier where he got horse collared. He's lucky both legs didn't snap.

15:14 Somehow he went in the air. I mean, you knew tonight. I mean, there's a handful of teams you go, yeah, those are the most physical teams. And you would say those two teams, the way the 49ers consistently play. I would say Minnesota in terms of their mentality. It's a short list. I mean, it's a much softer league. Like, you still got to be a tough, crazy fucker to play in the NFL. But this isn't like, you know, 15, 20, 30 years ago, I would say 80% of the league could send you to the hospital on any given play.

15:48 It's just much different now. I mean, the Texans, who I thought was the best defense in the league because they had kind of been for a couple years... was getting work today. I mean, Scadaboo made them look like he was playing Baylor or K-State back at Arizona State. And, you know, that's just, that would, some of those runs he, the one run he had, the touchdown run where he broke tackles, it's probably not happening against Kansas City or Seattle, right?

16:11 But it's possible against a lot of other teams. I do think one thing Kansas City's going to have to do is figure out a way to obtain a wide receiver. And who that guy is, I mean, the Jets are a joke. I saw a stat today, in the last two minutes of the first half, Aaron Glenn's team, since he's been there, have been outscored 107-6. Which, honestly, I'd have to really sit down and think more about that.

16:37 How's that even possible? But the Jets are sinking like an anchor right now in the ocean. And Garrett Wilson, should they be really aggressive to get a guy like that? because they're just going to need some help, because they can't depend on a guy to go for 140, 150 yards on the ground every game against better teams. Now, you could also say, who are they going to play again that has a defense like this? If you look at the Chiefs' schedule, they've got Denver coming up, then they've got the Jets, then they've got the Falcons, the Cardinals, the Bills, the Rams, the Bengals, Patriots, Niners at the end.

17:17 I mean, they're going to be able to run it on most people. But they got to get some wide receiver help, and they know that. Listen, you're 5-1. You're feeling pretty good. At Seattle on a Sunday night, you go 12-5 or 13-4. If I told a Chiefs fan, hey, you're going to bounce back from your sixth win season and go 12-5. If you looked at the schedule, what games you think you're going to lose, this would probably be one you'd have circled. So whether you got, let's face it, you got your ass kicked 20-3. Or whether you lost by one point. Who cares? As long as you don't have any major injuries. You didn't. It didn't feel like it. The other thing is, they were all over JSN. I had a DM relatively recently where someone

18:04 was like, do you think JSN is overrated? No, I don't think JSN is overrated. I think he's incredible. I think he's like the total package. There's literally nothing he can't do. Like nothing. He can turn into Amon Ross St. Brown and just dominate from the slot. Work the middle. Just do everything a slot wide receiver does. He can morph to go to the outside and just run go routes.

18:29 Like Mansour Delane, who I think is going to be a pretty good player. I'm not trying to get ahead of myself here. That looks like a good pick. He's fucking all over him. Multiple. Nothing you can do. Part of it is a perfect pass. But the ability, you know, Matthew Golden's watching JSN be like, bro, how do you do that? How do you catch the ball?

18:50 Like, I don't know.

18:50 You just put your hands out and you just let the ball fall into it. You catch it. But he's incredible. And there was one shot tonight of Spaggs dropping a huge F-bomb after he called the play in after they had just hit a screen. So you can run screens to him. You can run him in the slide. You can run him on the outside. He can run around guys.

19:08 He can break tackles. He can just separate through– Route running, he's literally the total package. I mean, there's nothing you can't. He is exceptional, just an elite player. He is closer. I think, you know, it's hard to judge Jefferson, their quarterback play. I mean, God, Kyler's first half was horrendous.

19:30 You know, I mean, it was tough. There were a couple of balls on Jefferson that looked like J.J. McCarthy throwing it to him. But if you put Jefferson with, you know, a normal high-end quarterback, he's incredible. Obviously, Chase and Higgins even today look great. This guy is every bit as good as the top guys. He is a top guy. On a given week... on a given season, he is as good as it gets. And they paid him a lot of money. You can't pay everybody. It's the NFL. Salary cap. And I think the first guys to usually go are running backs who had a great end of the season, but it's like, we're not going to pay that. And the Chiefs did, and it's worked out.

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22:12 Really quick, I mean the Packer game. I would say big picture. I got this DM that I think would pertain to some of the late plays on them throwing flags on the late hits. And clearly the officiating in the NFL as a whole is historically bad. I mean, I don't think it's arguable. We've all watched a lot of football. We are now, it's like, you can give me, this isn't the worst injury season. I don't know, I've been watching football my whole life, and guys drop like flies more than ever. Guys get injured now more than ever.

22:50 And maybe guys are less quick to come back because of the money that's on the line. Like Lamar Jackson, right? You know, he kind of got into it, not with reporters, but, you know, getting asked about rap sheets reports. Like, Lamar, I think that came from your organization. Lamar, if I had to guess, it probably came from your GM. But he's going, all the other quarterbacks in my peer group get extensions on a year like this. You're not giving me one, so I'm not going to lay it on the line. They're thinking, well, we're paying you $ 52 million right now. And it just becomes like there is. And a contract negotiator told me a couple years ago, he's like, as the money has gotten way bigger, it has become

23:30 a little bit like basketball in the sense that players have a lot of juice now. They are making huge contracts. They have a lot of pull over these organizations. They are empowered to be like, yeah, I'm just not going to play. And, you know, we'll see this story with Lamar. I don't think it's necessarily going away. I mean, Tracy Wolfson wrote, definitely came, this is what she tweeted, as a shock to the Ravens that Lamar couldn't go. But Minter told me while he took a majority of the reps in practice, they went back and looked and he was limited in what he could do. Lamar said if he can't run, plant, or have burst, then it's selfish to be out there. I was told he's confident to be backwards. this week. We'll see. But back to the referees.

24:13 It is safer to play than ever. And I think we got to be careful about over-officiating, but they do over-officiate. And I got this DM that I thought was pretty interesting. Like, you talk about confidence a lot and it feels like that it will never fade, and once you lose it, you never think you will get it back. But how does someone build confidence? In my opinion, it's consistency in your approach to things. I agree. You cannot convince me that each week the NFL is not coming down the ref's throats for certain televised hits that seem to be extreme, when in reality, it's just a part of football. But because of the increased safety in the game and the softness of society, a normal hit can seem outrageous. How

24:52 are refs supposed to build confidence and stand on business in front of a bunch of alpha males when the league is literally breathing down their neck each week about enforcing the penalties? I think the issue is with Roger Goodell and the heads of the league being inconsistent rather than the refs. I think we just have a lot going on. It's pretty clear on these late hit penalties on the quarterback, they are coached up error on the side of it's a late hit error on the side.

25:20 It's too aggressive error on the side penalty on the defense. The NFL wants to be pro offense. Like they want all these. I think the NFL loves all these teams going forward. I think the NFL, we know the owners and the analytic people want them going forward. I think the NFL does too. They want offense, offense, offense, offense, run, offensive plays. That is what, so anytime you get around the quarterback, no matter if it's textbook, they are calling the penalty on the defense. They are over-officiating these penalties on the defensive backs. I mean, it hit me today, obviously some of the plays in the Packer-Lions game, but like defensive holding. There was a play in the Niners game, it's second and 20. And there's, I would say, ticky-tack,

26:09 but okay, defensive holding, which is a five-yard penalty on second and 20, but it's an automatic first down. It's like, guys, how is no one talking about these in these rules, the meetings at the owner's meetings in the offseason of like, how does that make any sense? If you are going to assess the penalty, how about just make it then second and 15? But LaFleur's asked about it at the end of the game. He refused to touch it. I don't blame him. He doesn't want to get fined. Who knows?

26:36 He might get fired if they miss the playoffs. So he's like, hey, my money is pretty sacred to me. I totally understand. And I've come around because I think it's really Nance in the Ravens game, in the Lions-Packer game. I think the announcer's like, why don't you just kick the field goal? And the number elites, the analytical nerds, The people with the best degrees in the buildings always say, and they're not wrong, just because you attempt a 30-yard field goal, a 40-yard field goal, a 48-yard field goal, doesn't mean you're guaranteed the points. And as we saw today, field goal kickers were missing everywhere. Eddie Pinero, the Niners kicker, has missed an extra point, I feel like, for like

27:19 six straight games. The Packers kicker is missing kicks that like Justin Tucker could have kicked backwards. So none of these guys, Butker, who was once one of the most reliable kickers in the league, you don't have much faith when he comes out, whether it's a 55, 58 yarder or a 48 yarder. So no kicks are guaranteed. And as we learned today, even if it's a 25, 28 yard field goal. But I do think we're not that far away from some of these guys inactivating a kicker on game day. And just be like, we're going to go for it on every fourth down, and we're going to go for every two-point conversion. And someone's like, well, then who's going to kick off? Well, my punter will do it. We'll just have him do it, and we

27:59 don't even need a kicker. Because it's starting to get pretty, I would say, egregious. I do get Dan Campbell on his own 24-yard line. if it's a 50-50 point game, right? It's like the final score is going to be 50-46. Like, that's the vibe of the game. It's like, hey, everyone's scoring. We cannot punt. It's four minutes left. Totally get it.

28:23 Tie game. And it's field goal ain't winning shit, right? We got to just keep it going. We got to just go for it every fourth down. I do not understand people just throwing everything we've ever known about football out the window away When games are 17-17, 14-14, the Ravens went for today, it was a 14-13 game. They would have had a chip shot field goal that, I'm going to say Tyler Loop hits the field goal, they would have been up 16-14. Instead they miss, Burrow scores 21-13, and they never look back. Score again, score again, all of a sudden you get blown out. And I'm not saying just because you kick the field goal, it guarantees you win the game, but no one wants to kick field goals ever. It's like, why even have the fucking kicker?

29:09 Just wasting a spot. Why not get an extra wide receiver or an extra line? Why not? It's just, it's crazy. And Dan Campbell, I'm not shocked to see, he's always done this crazy stuff. And I'm not shocked to see the Packers miss a field goal. Their special teams are terrible. I mean, awful. They've been awful. But that game also was like, I would say the Packers, Golden can't catch a cold. He had 12 targets, 6 catches. Brady's almost falling out of the booth. Can't believe he, like, just, it calls balls that I think, like, God, that's a good play by the DB. Brady's like, drop. Goff should have thrown, like, 7 interceptions, hitting dudes in stride. They had multiple fumbles. I did the math. If you had

29:55 both fumbles and the Lions went for it on one red zone play, where he got shoved out of the back of the end zone, you could be conservative, cost himself 13 points. Potentially 17 points. But it's like, fuck it. We're just going for it. It's like, are we sure? So the game, which is crazy about Vegas, how some of these spreads are just so on the money. How they can factor this in with the new mindset of everyone going for it at all times, it's just a wild ride. It really is. That Lions-Packer game, both those coaches should be like, the Lions offensively, they should have had way more points. Way more points. And the Packers, again, still can't run the ball. And I get Jacobs is coming back, but they've got to find a way to

30:48 have a 100-yard rusher. Or else this just isn't going to be a good season. Because you cannot rely on just throwing absolute bombs for your entire offense. Like, that can't be your entire offense. We talked about the Lamar situation a little bit. I mean, that thing's going to get weird. I saw a stat today. He has missed more games since 2021 than Joe Burrell. It's funny, when we talk about Joe Burrell, all we ever talk about is injury prone, injury prone, injury prone. Lamar Jackson's missed more games. And I think clearly right now the contract situation, it's gotten weird. And it's not like the Ravens have like, what are they going to do? Let them walk? How many teams do you think would be lined up to

31:31 get them? Who the fuck's going to play quarterback for you? This is why the NBA element of the sport, when you don't take care of guys, they'll be like, ah, screw it. I'm not going to lay it on the line for you. And if you're going to take care of anybody, it's like, yeah, you've got to overpay them a little bit more than you're comfortable. We're talking a couple hundred million dollars guaranteeing, which coming off a season where he had missed some games and he missed the playoffs, I get it. It's like on principle. But it's like, okay, on principle, they didn't pay Joey Porter because they don't guarantee more than a year because the Roonies are kind of cheap and all of a sudden he's on a different team and your defensive backs are like, huh, kind

32:10 of use that corner. In this Lamar situation, it's like you lose back-to-back games because your quarterback is just not going to be that dynamic. Once Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, and Jamar Chase turn into a video game, Tyler Huntley might as well be mere you. You have no chance. None. You're not going to win that game when those guys heat up because you're not going to be able to go blow for blow with them. It's not possible with Tyler Huntley. And honestly, he's an incredible story. So part of the business of this, the money is changed if you're uncomfortable giving some of these contracts. And I'm not saying it's easy. It's probably complicated because of the injury history.

32:48 But now they're in this weird situation. You got Tracy Wilson, who's clearly hearing things. You know, they were thinking he was going to go. And then all of a sudden, he's not. And it's like, then they're probably feeling pretty good. They're up 13-0. And the Bengals look terrible. I mean, they look awful. Until they didn't. Until those two guys heated up. And Joe just started throwing it every single play to one or five. Like, especially five. I mean, Higgins is, when he's on, it's like, holy shit, this guy's good. It's like, I used to be a little critical.

33:17 It's like, hey, man, Joe. You know, building a team, paying both wide receivers is really expensive. The way you got to build the roster. I get it. I give Joe a little credit on that one. Good idea. Anything else? A couple quick things on. Oh, yeah. After I recorded a podcast with Colin, I did a quick video. We threw it up on YouTube on JJ McCarthy. And I was kind of thinking during the night game, you know, sports are really built on stories. Reality television, I was just at a buddy's house. He had a bunch of people over on Saturday night, and Maria, Jack, and a couple other babies, and a bunch of people were over there.

33:59 It's funny, you hear the girls talk about the Bravo shows, and half of them I've watched, and we're talking college football. We're talking NFL, the storylines. I think sports, and specifically what I talk the most about in football, college, and pro, is built on the stories. Like, what drives Saturday, right?

34:23 The stories of Nick Saban, of Lane Kiffin, of Trinidad's plight, of Arch Manning, right? It's the drama of their story. I think about it, I just watched the Mike Tyson documentary. Like, the highs and lows of his life make him interesting. I love golf. Tiger Woods is one of the most fascinating athletes of my life. If I live, hopefully... Hopefully the technology improves and they got some good medicine and I don't lose my marbles and I live, you know, another 50 years. I'll probably never see another Tiger Woods. Like, you can't make up that story. And that's what makes them interesting. You know, and it's no different in football. Like, watching Mahomes and Sam Darnold. You know when Mahomes got

35:06 way more interesting? Is when they imploded as a team, won six games, he tore his ACL, and everyone's like, I think Chiefs are done. Dynasty over. And him and Andy came back double middle fingers like not so fast. Watch us win this division again. And now you're watching Mahomes like there's more meat to the story because for the first time in our lives watching him in the pros, he not only failed, he got injured. Sam Darnold, like part of what makes him so interesting is he's been all over the map. I mean, he was a complete bust.

35:39 He was kicked to the curb. And like, listen, I'm not going to change my tune and act like this guy has just conquered football and he's just going to be a sweet player. But J.J. McCarthy is very, very interesting. Going back to college, right? He's winning a national championship, but everyone didn't know how good he was. He's meditating on the pole. He's got crazy-ass Jim Harbaugh coaching some of the games because some of them he's suspended. Goes to a team ready-made to kick ass and take names.

36:09 He is terrible. They can't stand him. There are articles leaked when they trade him about how he butted heads with the coaches. His own teammates used to kind of shake their heads at some of his antics. And it's like, God. And then he goes to Harbaugh, and John Harbaugh doesn't give a crap about any of it. And within two games, he's like, this guy's my starting quarterback. Then he plays with Houston, Texas, who's been one of the best defenses in the league up until this year, and slices and dices him. I mean, he was incredible today. I chat GPT'd it. Well, I Googled Gemini did, I guess. I just typed it into Google. And some of his best statistical games, like the most yards he ever threw for

36:49 was against TCU. in the Final Four a couple years ago in that crazy game that Michigan ended up losing. TCU won, then they got their ass kicked by Georgia. Threw for like 350 yards or whatever. So he's had bigger games. But you can't, I mean, TCU, how many players on that team played in the NFL? This is the best game he's ever played. I mean, I feel pretty confident saying this is the best game he's ever played.

37:13 He was layering throws. Really, even going back to last week, he's pushing the ball downfield. He's getting back, whether it's five steps and just putting his foot in the ground and letting that thing rip, no hesitation, accurately. He looked incredible. But he's fascinating. You know, why? Because literally he just failed.

37:34 And people would be like, well, everyone just got too aggressive. Everyone buried him. Yeah, he literally couldn't win the backup job. Kyler Murray, who I think Vikings fans would kind of have to agree, I don't know what the line of average is in the NFL. I'd put him below it. I would put Kyler Murray as a below average quarterback.

37:56 He was so bad today in the first half. There were a couple plays of Justin Jefferson where he had to look at Kevin O'Connell and he had to say, what? This feels like fucking last year, bro. What is happening? And I'll hit the occasional play. Even as a runner, he's not as great. If J.J. McCarthy, and listen, I don't blame them for doing that. Sometimes you just stop meshing with a person. Sometimes you stop believing with a person.

38:22 We've all worked with people that after something happens, you can never look at them the same. I've been there. You've been there. Maybe sometimes it's us and the way people look at us. We make a bad mistake and you end up not working there anymore. You end up having to leave, go to another job. Shit happens. Sometimes there was no coming back. And there was clearly no coming back from that in Minnesota. I got no issue with that. I'm not blaming them for getting rid of them.

38:46 But we see it over and over in the history of the league. Guys get just thrown in the trash. That is the NFL. It doesn't happen as much in basketball. Guys get thrown in the trash and become a star. Happens a lot in baseball. Guys get cut, DFA'd, go to the minors, bounce back. All of a sudden you're playing for the Brewers, one of their best players. Happens historically in baseball all the time. Some of the guys on the San Francisco Giants and their runs, Jeremy Affelt, other guys that were just by other teams, other organizations.

39:18 Billy Bean created Moneyball based on that. And in football, it is one of the core tenets of a front office. Finding guys like that... working with the coaching staff and rehabilitating them, physically and mentally. And Matt Nagy, my guy who's been shit on over the years, is doing an incredible job. He had a play call today on a big scataboo run on a short yardage play that was straight out of Andy Reid's playbook. Chiefs ran that play.

39:49 It's like they got like four running backs in a diamond shape. You don't know where they're going. All of a sudden, parts like the Red Sea and Scataboo is out the gate until he's not and they catch him. But it was just, it was excellent. That's coaching. And John, John's made for this. And the other thing that bothers me too is like, what are they going to do if this goes too well? What if it goes too well?

40:13 Then you tell Jackson Dart, who, listen, we all, very talented player, we'll have a quarterback competition next year. Neither of you guys are fucking Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning or Josh Allen here. What do you mean, what do we do? Best guy plays. I mean, who are you two? And that's why you pay John Harbaugh $ 20 million. Because if you have a Brian Day ball, all the coaches they've had, the McAdoo's, the Shermer's, it would be a disaster waiting to happen if it went well. I'd say with John Harbaugh, I don't see how it couldn't go well.

40:49 He would just figure it out, be fine, work with the two guys, and let the cream rise. They would literally do that at every other position. It's why so many guys at offensive line, defensive line get offended by the way quarterbacks are treated. They're like, if I get injured and someone takes my job and I'm a pro bowler or young high draft pick, I don't just get my job back. I, at best, get a chance to compete for my job back, but a lot of times I'm just the backup when I come back from injury.

41:19 yet unless I'm some super established you know Travis Kelsey George Kittle you know I don't know some high-end player but that's not the way it works for any other position with a guy in Jackson Dart's seat and we got a long way to go before we get there but it's a good problem to have neither guy makes that much money and just again let the cream rise let them compete and both of them have an injury history but I I've just seen people like what are they going to do uh I don't know, keep them both, figure it out, and then if one guy can't conform, he'll conform his way out of there. That's the way John Harbaugh will handle it. He's in a great position.

41:56 A couple other quick things. Indy, if, you know, I saw Carly on the sideline taking notes. If her number one note was to tell Ed Dodds, the interim GM, to send out a group text to all 31 other teams and say that everyone on our roster is available, you have till late afternoon dinner time Eastern time to give us your final offers on whatever players you want.

42:20 But literally every single player, including Shane Steichen, if you want to take him as well, is available. You can take them all. But we're just best offer by then. No negotiating. We'll go from there. But this isn't BS time. I'm not going back and forth. You give me your best offer and we'll say yes or no. And then maybe we'll negotiate from there. But, you know, she's in a tough spot. This guy's never negotiated deals. She obviously, you know, new owner. But it should be an absolute fire sale. And, you know, one scene is like Sauce was talking to her on the sideline because he's injured.

42:57 That would be a prime player you'd flip. But, yeah, I think it's hard to flip an injured player especially because people would want to get them for cheap and you just paid a bunch for them, so it's kind of a tricky spot. But Indy would be insane if they haven't let everyone know tonight, like before everyone went to bed or got on their planes, every player on our team is available because you got beat by a team that like– Minnesota, I get their defense and Flores is doing an incredible job. Like I just– Kyler, even when he takes off, he's like running into defenders and Man, I think the other guy that you have to keep an eye on would be, like, do the Raiders have to contemplate trading Max Grosby and putting him on the block?

43:42 It's like, could I get a one and a two? We're going nowhere. I mean, they– big spot for the Rams, but the Rams came– it was up 28-3 before you could even blink. Cousins already being asked, like, are you going to get benched? And rightfully so. But I think you at least have to put it out there. You know, I know you don't want to do it. He likes being a Raider. But this team's not winning, and you're still a couple years away. It's not like your defense is great. You can't fucking stop a nosebleed right now.

44:10 So could you get a one and a two, maybe a one and two threes? You're not going to get what Baltimore offered last year, but I didn't really pay attention to how he looked today, assuming he made it out of the game healthy. I definitely think there are enough teams that would be highly interested, and you probably get more than you could think. but I do believe the Raiders need to think about that. A couple quick things.

44:36 Rodgers went on this rant that they won. What a terrible game. That was a tough watch. Rodgers went on this long rant today after the game of really on two things. One, that the league had, instead of doing an international day where they play a game all over the world, games in Mexico, Canada, UK, Ireland, they just said, no, we'll just do occasional European games and add a 17th game because the NFL was greedy and they wanted more revenue. Well, yeah, there's truth to that. But when he says that, every comment I saw was like, these greedy bastards. You know the players split that revenue, the extra game, like all this extra money and all these contracts that keep growing.

45:26 The players do benefit from that financially. This is not one of those where the owners just keep the cash. They don't get anything. They split that revenue. Like 50-50. So the players benefited revenue-wise. The other thing he said was a sneaky shot at the Roonies. Because I was... read some people that cover Pittsburgh. I think some people internally thought, Pittsburgh's kind of cheap. They sent the Steelers out on Thursday night on the red-eye, so they only had to stay there two nights. Instead of, as Roger said, the league should mandate you go a week early. Basically saying, because I agree, older teams sending them two nights before, while the Saints were out there all year, kind of bullshit.

46:08 But guess what? Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... They don't have to pay for shit because all the players are just at home and all the coaches are at home. It's just much cheaper. They don't have to pay for the hotel and the lodging and the food all week long. So I do understand what he's saying. I don't disagree there.

46:24 And this gets back to the Roonies. They're always bitching and moaning about second-year guarantees. Guys, it's 2026. Top quarterbacks cost $ 250 million. Guards go for $ 28 million a year. If you can't send a team over for a week... Like these guys really struggled because at one point in time, people in that organization knew when a million dollars meant a lot. 40 years ago in football terms. Well, it doesn't anymore. You know, I mean, I can now press a button and I played golf on Saturday morning. It's 40 minutes away. I got in my Tesla, pressed a button.

46:59 I didn't do shit for 40 minutes. It pulled up. I got my golf bag out. My dad would be rolling over in his grave. He's how's that? We live in a different world. financially, technology-wise. The Roonies, it feels like, are kind of living in the 80s and 90s. I respect the brand, the franchise, but Rodgers, without taking a specific shot, took an indirect shot, and I do agree with him on that. I think the international day, it's like, I'm already out on the international games. Why are we playing a game in France? That was just atrocious to watch.

47:31 You think the French people are going to jump on to American football after watching that? If I was in France and my life didn't get looted, I definitely wouldn't spend Sunday night watching Tyler Shuck go at it with the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'll tell you that. A couple quick college things. I don't understand why everyone's surprised when people are losing. Everyone's like, BYU just reading their press clippings.

48:01 College football is now the NFL. You can win one week like the New York Giants. They had an incredible game today. Would anyone be shocked if they lose next week? Seattle. They looked unreal tonight. Would anyone be shocked if Seattle, who plays, let's see who they play next week. I bet it'll be someone decent, and I bet your answer will be the Bears. Would anyone be stunned if on Monday Night Football the Bears beat Seattle? Of course not.

48:32 Because anyone can beat anybody. It happens all the time. It's the power of the NFL. In college, we're so accustomed to the best teams stack their rosters and just beat the shit out of anybody, and Nick Saban on a given year has two or three tough games. And usually one of those games is a team either before a big game or after a big game, kind of not fully there mentally, but they always pulled it out. Well, they were by far the best teams. They were like two deep of first and second round picks. Those days are dead. They do not exist. It doesn't happen. Like Miami is clearly really good. If Miami played better teams instead of being in the ACC, which is terrible, they could go like 10-2 and still be the best team

49:16 in the country. You could win the Super Bowl and go 11-7. or 11-6. The Chiefs did a couple years ago. So all these people, BYU lost to UCF.

49:26 Yeah.

49:27 You think BYU is like the 2019 LSU Tigers? You think LSU or BYU is like the 2000, 2001, you know, Miami Hurricanes? No, they're just a good college team. They could go 11-1, 10-2, or they could also go like 9-3, 8-4. All these teams can lose every single week at any moment. This is college football. This is the transfer portal. These teams, these guys, no one has depth anymore. No one, none of these top 5, 10 teams... obviously they're going to be way better than some, but if you're just playing a 6-6, a 7-5 type team, anyone can lose to anybody, especially on the road. So I think we have to change our mentality of like, listen, I grew up on Bobby Bowden's Florida State teams, Tom Osborne's Cornhusker teams, the

50:17 Pete Carroll teams. Obviously, we've all lived through the same things. These teams just didn't lose. It was stunning when they lose. We can't be stunned anymore when people lose. Now, it still is when you're watching it, but games could go any way, any time, if the two teams are just semi-similar. Obviously, if Ohio State's playing Rutgers. But if you tell me Ohio State is playing most, you know, USC this week with their backup quarterback, they could lose. Probably won't, but wouldn't be stunning. all the teams in the SEC can beat each other. All the teams in the Big 12 can beat each other. All the teams in the ACC can beat each other, except Miami. But everyone else can beat everybody. And if Miami played in the SEC, they

51:01 could win it. They could also lose a couple games. I just think we have to change our mentality of what we're witnessing, which is cool, which is fun, which to me makes it enjoyable. I heard a stat last week that Alabama 10 years ago was favored against Tennessee by 35 points. So in the middle of the SEC, they would just be playing rivals and would be like four or five touchdown favorites. Was that actually that fun?

51:30 It's like cool to see it documented looking back. There were a lot of games and I watched a decent amount of them where you could just easily turn it off at half. It's like, are they going to murder these people? Like literally. I mean, how many of these guys are going to go to the hospital? Those days are kind of done. Like BYU is probably pretty good.

51:45 Could beat most teams in the country. They could also lose to most of the top 20, 30 teams in the country. The other thing is, you see it today with Bryce Young when they just got massacred. You see it today with Kyler not being able to see. I love Trinidad Chambliss. Again, one of the great stories of my lifetime in college football. Definitely probably the coolest transfer portal story. The guy came from Division II. Ferris fucking State football. by the end of his first transfer season, was in the semifinals going toe-to-toe with Georgia and Miami.

52:21 That never would have happened in the history of the sport.

52:23 Ever.

52:24 It didn't exist. And now the guy's talked about as a top pick, rightfully so. But you watch him against that Texas defense who has NFL player after NFL player. That was a different animal. On the road. Do you know what that reminded me of? The NFL. Because you know what you have to do in the NFL? As a 5'10 guy on a bad team, go on the road eight, nine times a year in tough-ass environments against 11 NFL players. And some teams, they go like 15, 18 deep of high-end guys. Seattle, Kansas City. It's hard for shorter quarterbacks. It's hard to see. You know, it is difficult. Just because you're tall doesn't mean you're a great player. Look at Arch Manning, who's not a great player. Right? Right?

53:09 But for the first time, I went, ooh. If I was a GM, am I risking everything? Is Trinidad going to the Jets, just going on the road and hanging with the Bills and the Patriots in November and December? Going on the road in a back-to-back stretch plan like Kansas City and Denver in late November, early December. It was the first time I went, whoa. And it's height.

53:43 It's just hard to play when you're, I heard someone say that stood next to him on a podcast I was listening to. He's like, man, 5'10 even maybe at the combine? I'm like, whoa. You see the size of some of these human beings? These guys are fucking massive. I mean, a tiny defensive lineman is like 6'1. A tiny defensive lineman. Like Byron Murphy is on the shorter end.

54:06 And he plays next to a guy in Leonard Williams who looks like he's 6'10. So it's like, it just gives me a little pause. For the first time ever, I went, got to watch this a little closer. Hopefully we'll get a stretch of seeing him keep playing Georgia, make a playoff run season. But those are the type games that evaluators that are going to risk their career are...

54:32 I would say going to watch on repeat to go, are we sure? Is this just a one-off? Or could this be something? Because he kind of got engulfed. On to our interview. Can I tell you about my new friends at Trees.com? Do you know that they're America's largest and most trusted online nursery? I don't know about you, but I added some ficus trees to my backyard. We tried to add to the feng shui, the vibe. And, you know, you work with a landscaper. They give you these quotes. You're like, am I totally getting screwed? And then I went to trees.com. And I just had them delivered to my house. Because here's the thing. They're guaranteed...

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58:29 High speed, low drag. High speed, low drag.

58:34 The founder of Folds of Honor. How are we doing? Blessed.

58:39 Just on fire. And my favorite hat, I got it sitting on my desk right here. That's how I'm doing. Unapologetic. God, country, and helping those who serve us every day. That's awesome. Thanks for having me.

58:53 You know what's funny? I don't know if you've talked to a million people, but last year, once you came on Be Partners on the podcast, my dad's brother died in Vietnam. My dad was born in the 40s. This wasn't a home where we talked about emotions and even the situation. He obviously died well before I was born in the 80s. Last year, I started looking up and I realized I had moved to Scottsdale five years ago.

59:22 It turns out his brother, David, was going to Arizona State at the time when he got drafted into, you know, and this would have been the late 60s, into Vietnam War. And I just started thinking like, wow, I live here now. It's all happenstance, but it clearly is not. You know, there are things out of your control and you look back.

59:41 And something I, again, never got broached as a subject. We didn't really talk about, you know, things like that. But I saw the impact of, You felt it on him and the little that I knew. His parents died when I was relatively young, but in Folds of Honor, what they represent and the people they take care of, not only veterans, but first responders. Through marriage, her best friend's husband is a firefighter, and we've become good friends.

1:00:11 I see the difference of his life and what he puts on the line relative to a podcaster here. This is really powerful, and it means a lot to me to be associated with you guys and to be able to donate for you guys. I'm glad you're on today. Yeah, bless.

1:00:28 To your point, we're all connected. Right. Everybody is connected to our military and first responders. And without them, the country we live in is not the country we live in. So it is important that we honor and we remember those connections. And we're virtuous, which I love, which is belief and action. And that's where Folds of Honor comes in the mix.

1:00:49 Tell me about this. Next year will be your 20th year. You guys are striving right now. You've had 86,000 scholarships. fully funded, right? Over $ 400 million. And the goal is over the course of within the next year, try to get to a hundred thousand. Yeah.

1:01:04 That's the March a hundred thousand for 20th anniversary. And I mean, it's so crazy. We all know, I think we agree, like how fast time goes for all of us. Uh, and I mean, it seems like yesterday I was sitting above the garage in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, and God called us to start Folds of Honor, my wife and I, and man, there was nobody. If you would have asked me, wow, in 20 years, would you hit 100,000 scholarships and eclipse $ 500 million? I'd be like, dude, you're nuts, but must be present for God to work. We keep showing up every day trying to do the right thing. It's just such a blessing, not only to the people we help, but you alluded to it coming on here. The helper is also helped, right? And that's the beautiful thing about life.

1:01:53 And Folds is such a powerful vessel for not only our recipients, but for our donors. And it's one of the last places that we come together, right? It's not a red or a blue issue, man. It's red, white, and blue. We need a lot more of that. I'm really proud, too, that on top of giving scholarships, Folds of Honor brings people together in a country that just is always reminding us how divided we are.

1:02:16 On the website, foldsofhonor.org, correct?

1:02:19 Yes.

1:02:20 When you go there, you have the ability to donate, whether it's $ 5, $ 100, however many. But if you get over $ 5, 000, can you explain the wingman and how that works?

1:02:32 Yeah, so our scholarships are $ 5, 000 a piece. And so, yeah, you can go on, make a $ 5, 000 donation. And the really cool thing, too, that we do as well is like, hey, man, what's your alma mater? And if we have a kid or unfunded people there, you can earmark it to go to the University of Kansas like myself or whatever it is.

1:02:51 So combining the passion of your football team with your country is really powerful. Yeah, but 5,000 will change the life of a military or first responder kid or spouse who've had somebody critically wounded or killed in defense of our great nation.

1:03:08 Yeah. We were talking before we press record about in week eight in the NFL, you guys are associated. Could you dive into that one for me?

1:03:20 Yeah, so super passionate. We added first responders three years ago. And you look at this group of people and just tie this stat on. So every six seconds, 240 million times a year, 911 is dialed. They're coming to rescue us regardless of where you live, how you vote. What's going on? And until Folds came along, there's no organization providing educational support to first responder families out there.

1:03:51 So we did that.

1:03:51 And then as I have discovered really this group of people, because I'm a career fighter pilot, I'm not a first responder. You realize like they don't even have a day. We have Veterans Day. We've got Memorial Day. And I would argue that first responders, they're in every community in this country. They are the fabric of freedom and stability in America.

1:04:11 And October 28th is actually First Responders Day. Nobody knows that date. And man, I'm just a dog on a bone. God's got my heart on fire to make that a thing. And so a couple of years ago, our friends at Anheuser-Busch and Bud Light walked me into the NFL office and And I said, hey, to the National Football League, will you guys lean in to first responder day? And yeah, so week eight coming up, the NFL will recognize first responders.

1:04:37 We will award scholarships, have check presentations alongside of Bud Light and virtually every stadium across the country, including my beloved Chiefs. We've all got our team, right? And yeah, so we're trying. Obviously, we're giving scholarships away. But really trying to change American culture around that. And I was on some calls in D.C.

1:05:01 Today.

1:05:01 And my big dream is that it'll become the 12th federal holiday before we're done. And in my heart, like when we see a first responder, their response should be the same as when you see me in my uniform. You're like, hey, thanks for your service. These people are such heroic and so underappreciated in our country.

1:05:20 Do you think that is something that eventually gets done?

1:05:23 I do. Yeah.

1:05:25 Right.

1:05:25 I'm like, God's got it on my heart. Everybody's nodding. And again, it's one of these things. It's not partisan. It's not red or blue. It's red, white and blue. And I really do believe. And when you get into federal holidays, pretty interesting. Like the big bump or the rub is they're super expensive for our country. Like shutting people don't work. Yeah, because people don't work. But man, all these people answering 911 aren't going to take off first responders day. Which is one more reason that we need as a country to honor this group of people because it's the right thing to do. And we need them to continue to.

1:06:02 Do this job.

1:06:03 And that's a huge issue in cities across America. People aren't signing up to be police officers, to be EMTs, to be firefighters because we don't honor them as a society the way we should.

1:06:15 When you went into the NFL office, did you eventually meet with Roger Goodell?

1:06:19 Yeah, it's a really cool story on the commissioner. I mean, cool story. I couched that. I'll draw it back a little bit. Also, kind of a sad story. But if you remember, a year and a half ago, they had actually an active shooter in the NFL headquarters. Yeah. And one of the gentlemen that was killed was an off-duty contract police officer. And I went down last October 28th in New York City to the 47th precinct in the Bronx and This thing is like out of the movies.

1:06:52 I mean, these are real cops. And the commissioner of the NFL went down there. I went down there. These guys are all suited up, getting ready to go out and do the thankless work that they do every single night. Tears in their eyes when we showed up and we gave Detective Ismael's three young boys Folds of Honor scholarships.

1:07:16 And like to a person, they were like, hey, the scholarships are unbelievable. But the fact that you are here recognizing our service is so powerful. And Folds of Honor just received like the highest award that NYPD gives out. We actually awarded a million dollars in scholarships to the NYPD this last year. So this was the start of us– making sure and tell those guys, man, we got your six.

1:07:42 If something bad happens, we're going to be there for your family. And, uh, there, there is something in the water, like people are getting it.

1:07:51 On the scholarship. Is that, uh, education post-high school? Is that technically just the details behind that, just for people listening?

1:07:58 Yeah, not to get too in the way. 25% of our funds go first grade through high school. These are super at-risk families that historically haven't made it to college or there's such a traumatic event that they're trying to get to tomorrow. So we will roll in and meet that sacrifice with hope early in those high-risk situations. The other 75% are post-secondary Most of that's traditional college. We've got a great program with Mike Rowe and Home Depot on funding trades now, which we know is a big topic in our country and a great opportunity as AI continues to eat away jobs. But that's pretty much the breakdown.

1:08:37 And our class this year, just under 15,000 recipients for the fall, so about 62 million out the door. And we're super proud to, and people are considering donating, that 91% of our funds go directly to scholarship programming. So we got perfect ratings on Charity Navigator. We're in a small town in Oklahoma, bro. We are doing it the right way.

1:09:02 Obviously, you are a well-accomplished individual in your field and you do something that most human beings hold in high regard. But once you start this, I'm fascinated to learn How do you, because now you're dropping Home Depot or Rod Goodell, Budweiser, you know, PGA Tour. Like, you know these people.

1:09:22 Yeah.

1:09:23 But at one point in time, you did not.

1:09:26 Right.

1:09:26 And so you have this idea, like you said, with your wife in the garage, you want to do this. What was your big break? Like, who'd you reach out to? Like, how'd you get the ball rolling? Yeah.

1:09:35 So very first break was I sent an email to Jim Nance and I told him the story.

1:09:42 How'd you get his email?

1:09:44 I got it through Roger Schiffman, who I knew, who was the editor at Golf Digest.

1:09:50 Gotcha.

1:09:51 I just think people, like, the thing about going crazy places, what people define crazy, they're not very crowded because nobody goes there. Like, I think we put most of these limitations are self-imposed because, oh, dude, that'll never work. And so Jim Nance connected. I sent him an email. He emailed me back. And I'm like, wow, there might be hope.

1:10:12 And then the PG of America, I reached out, I called the president of the PG of America. And I said, I got an idea that we all get together and play golf one day a year and we donate to support military families. And they said, yes. So I got a little momentum. And then I flew up to St. Louis and I cold called Anheuser-Busch. I actually went to the brewery and I rang the doorbell. And I'll tell you, that first meeting did not go very well. And they were nice, but they're like, dude, we get hundreds of requests a week from charities. I was running this above my garage. And so I left. But this is an inexhaustible truth in our lives. Your life goes based on what you do when it doesn't go your way. That's

1:10:57 where you write your legacy. And I think the 80-20 rule, like 80% of the time life's going okay, 20% it's going to suck. What do you do in those moments? And what I did is I went back every six months for the next three years and I kept ringing that doorbell. And obviously I'm a big Christian, a huge part of my life. I'm Catholic. But the book of Luke talks about chapter 11. Dude, you keep knocking, I will answer. You ask, you will receive. You seek, you will find. Like resiliency is the divine currency of life and whatever you're trying to accomplish. So anyway, I go back.

1:11:29 every six months for three years. And I finally get a meeting with the CEO and I tell him my story. And that was the beginning of, you know, going on 17 years of a partnership with Anheuser-Busch and like $ 38 million to us. But more importantly, they take us to all these places like the NFL, like Major League Baseball.

1:11:49 I mean, we're World Series Czech presentations, right? So I just think people put limitations on themselves and they don't ever put it out in orbit. Like you must be present for you to win.

1:12:05 So it's safe to say, I mean, sometimes you just got to go right to the big fish. I mean, that changed the course of your life, Charity's life, and just the trajectory of where you're at now would not have been possible. I mean, it would have been because the way you're wired, you would eventually figure it out a way, but. Safe to say that accelerated it. No, yeah.

1:12:24 Hunting elephants. And it takes like, whether you're hunting a, you know, a gopher or an elephant takes the same amount of time.

1:12:31 Yeah.

1:12:32 I mean, I just think, you know, it is. And for me, it goes back to that picture behind me or anything else is like, once I caught that dream of being a fighter pilot, I always said like, it like just, broke it wide open for me. I was like, I'm not going to be a prisoner of common assumption. When I said I was going to be a fighter pilot, I was a college golfer. Everybody laughed at me. They were like, dude, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And my fifth ride, when you're solo in an F-16, $ 65 million fighter jet, you get four rides with an instructor. Your fifth ride is solo. I remember I came back and landed Luke Air Force Base out in your neck of the woods in Phoenix. And like

1:13:10 this one just lands on my soul from God and it's go before you're ready. And if you keep going, we will do extraordinary things. And I think everybody listening would agree, life goes so fast. It's so short. And the way that you extend this timeline is, dude, you just got to go. You're never going to have a foolproof plan. Just have that reckless faith. My name played on my office desk as Leroy Jenkins. And if you know, you know, right? Do you know Leroy Jenkins?

1:13:42 Yeah. Yeah, right?

1:13:44 It's like, dude, just get out there and be reckless and let it rip. Because like Ecclesiastes, we're here and gone. And so we just like, who are we chasing next? And that's like, you know, making First Responders Day a federal holiday.

1:14:00 Why not? Well, I got to follow up. You were a college golfer. Did you go to Kansas? Is that where you went to school? Yeah, yeah.

1:14:08 It was Kansas.

1:14:09 Were you in like ROTC too or are you just a college golfer not doing anything with the military? College golfer. And you're like, I'm just going to be like a maverick and you just flipped it. How's that even possible? Because that can't be a normal path, right?

1:14:21 No, but yeah, what's normal, right? I think that's what we've discussed. It's like your life is not normal. You got one life. Get after it. It was funny because I met my first fighter pilot when I was 12. 1986, you're young. 1986 was the greatest year in the history of the world. It's been downhill, I would argue, since then.

1:14:42 Jack Nicklaus wins the Masters, Top Gun comes out, and I meet a real live fighter pilot. I'm like, dude, I'm going to be a golf pro and a fighter pilot. That's what I'm going to do with my life. And I'll never forget my dad. I told my dad, it was a college professor. And he asked me, he said, you know, which way to, which way does an airplane take off? That was his response. And it's like into the wind, like whatever you're going to do in your life, if it's big, you're going to face resistance, but God doesn't put that in your life to keep you down.

1:15:11 He puts it to help you ascend. Um, and if you're going to go do, you know, stuff that is meaningful, it's going to be really hard. And we talked about, you know, 20 year anniversary coming up and, uh, Dude, it's been like 19 brutal years. Like just showing up, getting punched in the face, having some wins along the way.

1:15:31 But thank God, the good Lord wakes me up the next day and I didn't quit when I wanted to quit at the end of the day. And you get back after it.

1:15:40 What's more difficult, shooting under par in a tournament or flying a F-16?

1:15:44 Yeah. Yeah. What's more difficult?

1:15:48 Depends on the greens and the wind, probably. Yeah, it does.

1:15:52 But the consequence of the fighter pilot business is just like, it's unbelievable. The pressure that is involved and how few people do it. Like more people are in the NFL than fly fighters by far over like a five-year period. So super narrow, but very similar psychology there. That you get, like, it's the mind-body meld under pressure. It's just the greatest drug on earth. Like, just such you against you. Nobody's coming to the rescue. It is up to you. Single-seat fighter pilot. You got to take it off, land it, deliver bombs on time on target. Just like you got to play all 18 holes and get it in on the 18th hole.

1:16:39 When's the last time you've sat in one or flew one?

1:16:42 So I've been out for three years. So my back finally tapped out at age 50. And what people don't understand flying fighters is that the F-16 is a 9G aircraft. I mean, the kinetic energy is equated to like going across the middle in the NFL. It is brutal on your body. I'm a half inch shorter than when I started flying the airplane. So I got back problems, neck problems, but like anybody probably that played in the NFL, they'd be like, dude, I'd do it all over because it is so fun.

1:17:13 That's the pressure in the cockpit?

1:17:15 Yeah, nine Gs, gravity, nine times the force of gravity. It goes straight vertically down your spine, which is about 1,500 pounds of kinetic energy.

1:17:26 Do you feel that when you're flying or is that just something a wear and tear over time? Like in football, you feel an impact of a hit. When you're out there flying, do you feel it when you're, no?

1:17:36 Yeah.

1:17:36 No, you do.

1:17:37 A hundred percent feel it. I mean, you're straining with everything you've got under nine Gs not to pass out. I mean, it feels like an elephant is sitting on you. I mean, it is a athletic thing. You're pouring sweat. I mean, you're going as hard as you can go. And as they always say, it's a young man's game.

1:17:52 I did it way longer than most people. I stayed in the cockpit, thought I could stay in shape and beat father time. But my My L5 finally said I'm out, exploded, literally in flight, which feels not good.

1:18:05 But yeah, I.

1:18:06 Mean, as you grow older to like the after effect, not unlike an old guy in the NFL, like it takes you two days to recover. So, but yeah, just so blessed to live that dream.

1:18:20 What's the active age of just an active fighter pilot in the Air Force?

1:18:26 Most people, I think the average age that you're out is like 38. Got you.

1:18:33 It is older. Yeah. It's not like 22-year-olds are doing it. It is experience.

1:18:41 Typically, you'll get to pilot training, you'll be 23, and most people are not doing 20-year careers. They'll go to the airline. So mid-20s to mid-30s is kind of the heart of the envelope. And then you've got guys that go a little longer.

1:18:55 Yeah, my wife's cousin, he– he flew for, I mean, close to 10 years and now he's been in, I think flies for United now for the last two or three years. So, you know, a little more typical past life, uh, from what, from what he experienced. Well, uh, I, I can't thank you enough. And, you know, I, I pledged last year, one scholarship and we're going to do two here in 2026. Where do you.

1:19:21 Want them to go? That's amazing.

1:19:23 Well, you know, I pour to school. You know, I mean, you tell me. I mean, I'm a sucker for Oklahoma. I know some of the schools, you know, I'm an adopted Sooner fan for the last decade.

1:19:37 Okay, that's done. We have, I think we have just under 100 kids at the University of Oklahoma. So, and we had several unfunded. So we will fund a couple unfunded scholarships at OU and we'll do them in your honor. So cool, right?

1:19:55 Yeah, it's powerful. You know, I was like, you know, my, you know, education was a big deal in my home. And I came, you know, both my grandparents fought in World War II. My mom's dad was shot down in Asia. Wow. My dad, obviously his brother died in Vietnam and he, you know, he was a little younger, but he was pulled out immediately because obviously you can't have both people, you know, go down and I saw the impact of that and I was lucky enough that, you know, his life, he was, you know, everything was okay.

1:20:28 Right.

1:20:28 It didn't derail his life, but obviously, you know, that, that can, and, um, it was really hard on his parents and it's kind of an unspoken, I don't even want to say tension, but it was like the unspoken elephant in the room. And you could just, the older you get and you look back, you kind of, you kind of understand it at the time you, you don't when you're young, but you look back and you realize that the impact on that, uh, It's tough.

1:20:53 Well, you're honoring both of their legacies. And we'll circle back up. But we'll help a couple of sooner kids. And we'll get you a really cool certificate out to let you hopefully feel the impact of these kiddos. So I said we had a record year. The sad part, we had 9,000 qualified unfunded. So we're always marching to fund the unfunded, to leave no family behind. And we did that today. So I'm glad we could do God's work.

1:21:24 Well, I admire what you're doing. And have a great day. Have a great week. And go low. We're going to.

1:21:31 Go do the next right thing. And I do look forward. I'll be out there in January. And you guys are at DC Ranch. So let's grab.

1:21:39 I'll have to get your contact. I'll have to get your contact information.

1:21:42 We'll swing it. Before we hang– as we cut the formal part of this, we'll get that. We'll get Tom Lehman out there, who's an awesome brother and Fold supporter, and go do DC Ranch. And we'll skip over and get Tom Pernice and do Silverleaf.

1:21:57 I need to hang out with you more often. You got the connections everywhere. I told you. Yeah. It's all good.

1:22:02 All right.

1:22:03 Awesome. Take it easy.

1:22:04 God bless.

1:22:05 Thank you. The Volume.