HERD BEST OF THE WEEK: Colin Was Right About the Dodgers and Rams | Herd Hierarchy | Brady Quinn on Arch Manning I Joe Maddon previews the World Series

Thanks for listening to the Herd Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Hasselbeck, almost two decades in the NFL, is going to be joining us in less than five minutes. I was awful yesterday. Nothing worked. I watched yesterday, and I'm like, yeah, I'm wrong on virtually everything. I thought the best game of the day was Jags-Texans. The London game, I thought it was spectacular. C.J. Stroud and Trevor Lawrence put on a show. Cam Little, I mean, honestly, he can kick 74-yard field goals. I mean, it's just insane. Bionic leg action.

I thought that was such a fascinating game. I'm going to tell you, between Travis Hunter and Parker Washington, the Jags may have two of the top five athletes in the league. Those guys, Travis Hunter was unbelievable. Parker Washington's been unbelievable for two years. They got nothing but dudes, but they couldn't stop C.J.

Stroud.

I mean, they just couldn't stop him. So here we go. Colin Wright, Colin Wrong on a Monday. I didn't like Brian Schottenheimer being the head coach. The longer he's there, the worse it gets. Five first downs against the Green Bay defense, missing three starters when you had extra prep time. Come on. Last night was the very bottom. Second worst rushing offense in the league. Dak Prescott, those receivers, O-line's top 10. You got extra time to prep. Five first downs on the first half. Folks, you can blame Dak.

He threw 54 times. That's totally unfair to quarterbacks. No matter how good you are, that's on shoddy.

Where Colin was wrong.

Well, due to inactivity, I said, I just don't know how much in rhythm Kalen Williams is going to be. I think he's going to be a little inefficient. Yeah, he went 12 for his first 12. Completed 83% on the day. It was the most accurate he's ever been. 24-24 from a clean pocket. I totally had this game opposite of what happened. I thought Chicago would have to rely on the run game, and they're on the road.

Let's take it out of Caleb's hands a little. He hasn't played in a while. No, he was literally 24-24 in a clean pocket. I don't care if not that many were downfield. That was something else. I told you the Cleveland Browns all year. I told Jay Mack, they got too many good players to be bad. It's not pretty, but their first place four and two in the AFC North.

I love their GM, Andrew Barry. They have just, I thought they had the best first five picks in the draft. They just don't miss on top draft picks. They got too many good players. They nailed both their Concepcion and Boston. They're two wide receiver picks, both ballers. I mean, by the way, they traded Miles Garrett. They have a top seven defense. I think Miles Garrett's better than Jared Verst, but they needed picks more than they did. Rams needed a closer out of the bullpen. Browns, that's not what they need. They need picks. Here's their game-winning field goal on the Browns radio network. Snap, hold, Andre Schmidt to the uprights.

And Andre Schmidt.

Has put your Cleveland Browns in first place in the AFC North.

All right.

Where Colin was wrong.

Like the rest of you, I can't figure out the L.A.

Rams.

Remember when they got Miles Garrett and everybody's like, it's unfair. Well, it's not working and he's not playing. Listen, I don't think they're running the ball on first down. And therefore, last year they led the NFL on fewest third down yards. They made Matt Stafford incredibly comfortable. This year he's thrown on third and five and third and six, and he's not the same quarterback. There's a little locker room noise.

Special teams are bad, but they were bad last year. I think it's solvable. I think they're the best two and four team in the league. Take a deep breath. They'll be okay. But I thought it was reasonable to say they are heavy favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Where Colin was right.

I rolled my eyes when the Dodgers acquired Kyle Tucker and everybody said, this is unfair. The Cubs couldn't get rid of him fast enough. I said all year, Milwaukee's the better team. Milwaukee's going to beat the Dodgers. Milwaukee plays cleaner. They're younger. They have more athletes in their prime.

I said the Dodgers are old, expensive, and increasingly brittle. Will Smith got hurt in the season, came back, wasn't the same. Otani's all banged up. Take a deep breath. It's probably going to be guardians. Well, it's, you know, the Brewers and the 19th biggest payroll are in. Set all year. Stop with the payroll stuff. It creates as many problems and headaches. You get tied to big contracts you can't get out of. And the Dodgers, they are close to a Thelma and Louise. They got contracts they cannot get out of.

Where Colin was wrong.

Why did I ever think Daniel Jones could be trusted? Uh... Chris Ballard got fired today. They're now two and four. You know, they really need to go all in on a quarterback. This is not the answer. They gave up 20 points to the Titans in the fourth quarter. I mean, think about this. They lost at home. They led by 13.

They were at home. They were facing a quarterback who's struggling, and they lost. That's why they made the move with Chris Ballard. I think he's really talented. I think he'll get a job. But I've kind of supported this operation.

It's bad.

I said, listen, Indiana's going to be good this year, but they're going to be closer to two years ago Indiana than the Fernando Mendoza Indiana. Mendoza never got enough credit. Signetti got all the credit. He's a very good coach. But Saturday, when they faced a better group of athletes... They missed a 30-yard field goal. They had turnovers. They were imperfect. They were forced into mistakes. Signetti's a really good coach. Even Ben Johnson needed Caleb back. Coaching has a ceiling. I still like Indiana. I like their schedule.

I think they're going to win a majority of their games. But we put too much of this on. Signetti is a genius. A lot of last year, they could have lost five games, was on Fernando Mendoza, putting this offense on his back. And Penn State, Oregon, Iowa, Miami, Ohio State, and just carrying Indiana to wins. He's gone. They're not the same offense.

Where Colin was wrong.

Notre Dame and their first true test failed. I thought Miami and Notre Dame were the best teams in the country. Maybe they will be. But Notre Dame needed this win because outside of the home game against Miami, it's a weak schedule. Notre Dame hurt itself with penalties, a red zone turnover. They couldn't get off the field on third down.

I mean, listen, you watch the game and I watch the game. The NIL has absolutely helped BYU. Because they got money. They got money. And they got good athletes. Now, you don't have to love the officiating, but I would be much more sympathetic with Notre Dame if they'd have played a much, much smarter, cleaner game.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube. And you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button. And smash that notification bell. And catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of jump.

Dan Patrick. Colin Cowherd.

Stu Gotts and company.

Live.

Covino and Rich. The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. The Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon. And the Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio.

On YouTube.

Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon, and comment away. These are not standings. The Packers, three straight wins. They're a rush offense. They're supposed to get Josh Jacobs back because they have no rush offense. We've said it for years. Jordan loves a real talent. He's got two deep threats. Their defense has held opponents to 17 points or fewer in all three games during the streak, and that's missing three starters. loves one of two quarterbacks with multiple touchdowns in every game passing and rushing josh allen is the other listen they were mired in a funk they are out of it i like their weapons i think their defense will get better green bay at 10 number nine Listen, Denver keeps coming from behind to win. I like their roster.

Bo Nix leads the NFL with four game winning drives, but he shouldn't have to come from behind every week. It's a testament to Sean Payton and their general manager. They're 15 and two and one score games. That's not supposed to remain. It's like fumbles. You don't recover all your own fumbles. For now i can only put them at nine um it's an incredibly high floor because of their overall talent and their two losses have become against the niners and the chiefs who are 11 and 0 so i put them at nine number eight the texans i don't care that they're two and four seven and one over their last eight against division I thought they played great against Jacksonville. C.J. Stroud, you have to unsee the end of last year. He's played very, very well.

Will Anderson leads the NFL in sacks with seven and a half, so they have an elite pass rusher. Again, teams get stuck. The Patriots got stuck. The Texans got stuck. The Chargers may be stuck for the entire season. I buy into this coach. I buy into this quarterback. I buy into their... I think Marvin Harrison's going to work there at least much better than Arizona. I just like their talent. I don't care they're 2-4. I have them at 8, and I might have them under-ranked.

Number 7.

Listen, Jared Goff so far, 12 passing touchdowns, no picks. Once again, No defense, scintillating offense. Stop me if you've heard this before. Can you imagine if Buffalo and the Lions got to the Super Bowl? It would be 54-53. Last serve wins. You know, they get to the quarterback, which is hard to do to be a bad defense, and yet you get to the quarterback, but that's the Lions.

I have them at seven. Well, for the third straight week, I have the Buffalo Bills at six. They're good on the road. They're good in one-score games. I like this coach better than his predecessor. I don't know if you can get to a Super Bowl with this kind of secondary. They got to make a move at the trade deadline.

Josh Allen's won 16 of his 21 starts in September and October. So I've seen them be very, very good early in the season. Same with the Niners. But I just don't trust the back end of this. They're allowing 28 and a half points a game. Only one team has ever allowed that and made the playoffs. I think they've got to solve it. I think they have to make a move at the trade deadline. Bills at six.

Number five.

Most underrated team is New England. They're not flashy, but they're a top. I mean, Drake May is playing really well. The head coach and the OC are elite. Top seven in offense, top seven in defense. I mean, A.J. Brown will eventually be able to catch a football if you throw it to him. Three straight games. They're out of the mess. I have them at five.

Number four.

The Bears, they lead the NFL. Caleb Williams leads the NFL in completion percentage. Last year, it was the number one question. I mean, this kid is so coachable. Number one rushing offense. I mean, they've got a coach. I mean, after Shanahan, is there a coach, maybe Andy Reid, that you like in a big spot offensively on a big drive?

I couldn't believe how good they were early against Atlanta. And keep your eye on Kyler Gordon. He's a cornerback that's been hurt for years. He is a dude offensively. He had three sacks as a corner. We went and looked it up. We asked Claude. Who's the last guy that did that? Claude went, no idea. Claude, AI was like, we really don't know. We'll ask the newest AI. ai machine when it comes out i have the bears at four number three the seahawks they don't have a run game right now i love their coach their defense you know i love darnold but when he doesn't have a d when he doesn't have a run game he makes mistakes and sam right now price charbonnet are out now charbonnet is coming back so i think seattle will rebound

there'll be a better football team number one total defense again they do a lot right But it's amazing. Kenneth Walker leaves. Darnold throws picks. Kenneth Walker goes to the Chiefs. And suddenly the dynasty is reborn. Seattle at three.

Number two.

I don't know how good their defense is yet. I think it's good. But they're going to get tested here over the next couple of weeks. But I know this. Andy Reid is pivoted. I mean, this is the first time they've had a run game. This is the first time play action for Kansas City is a lethal weapon. It's helped Travis Kelsey. It's helped time of possession. It's the best overall coaching staff between Andy Reid and Spaggs.

There's not a lot I don't like. Lead the NFL in yards per drive and yards per carry. Those are the kind of numbers that Vegas loves. I think they're for real. The only thing I know is that Kansas City is the second best team in the league and the number one team is the number one team. Listen, last night, 23-3 lead, foot.

Off the gas.

21 of their 22 offensive touchdowns have been scored by guys 30-plus. That's my concern. They're old, expensive, and a little brittle. Third oldest team to start 6-0 in 40 years. So all I worry about, get me to Thanksgiving and let me look at the health. Right now they've got cluster injuries at wide receiver. Mike Evans should be back, but he's going to be hobbled all year. Christian Kirk may come back. Robinson may come back. I think it's very even right now. Jacksonville's my 11. But there's the Hurd hierarchy, and let's bring in... I feel really good about this one. It's like the Texans. Well, they're 2-4.

These aren't standings.

Want more Hurd? The Hurd streams 24 hours a day, 7 days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

All right.

Brady Quinn in a couple of minutes. Excited for that. Been trying to get him on for a long time. Does a great job as a new article on the Michigan quarterback situation, which is really, really interesting. You were watching it. I was watching it. It felt much more functional over a course of one drive. It's great to have you in on a Tuesday. I'll tell you what's amazing last night about LeBron and the Sixers. LeBron's a jack of all trades, master of all of them. Whatever you need, whatever you need me to do, whatever holes you need me to fill, even as he ages, I'll do it. This is a Sixers team last year that got swept by the Knicks. It wasn't competitive. And last night, game one with all these pieces, yeah, it all worked.

Defensive rotations weren't bad. Offensively, LeBron's like, I'll score 14 points, but I'll be in the background. You're so lucky to have this guy. is that I know he can drive you crazy, and sometimes he's a little calculated with his social media, but the idea that in game one, against the Knicks, with all that continuity, and that's how slick it looked. I'm telling you right now, it wouldn't with anybody else. And as much as you could love Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan didn't know. Certain guys just couldn't play with Michael.

LeBron can play with anybody. 24 years of whatever role you need me to do. I asked Nick Wright, I said, how do you think this two-year Philadelphia Sixers thing is going to turn out? So I would imagine.

He'll go to Philadelphia. It is hard to repeat. They'll find themselves in the finals, probably come up short to, you know, Oklahoma City or San Antonio. And then next year, they'll just win the championship. And the final piece of the puzzle that makes historians from the future look back and be like, wait, they used to argue about who the best player of all time was.

That was a debate?

Was that before or after they were debating whether or not the world is flat or round? That's the category of debate it will be in.

Shouldn't be that easy and look that smooth in game one. Jalen Brown needs his shots and B does Maxie. These are tremendous pro athletes. They want theirs. They want shots. You move LeBron and he's like, all right, I'll be the great. facilitator, you know, I'll be, I'll, I'll, I'll create concession. Um, I mean, it's really something else. Uh, we've been trying to get Brady Quinn on for a long time. He does such a great job for Fox seven years in the NFL. He's got a column on Michigan's quarterback change. And if you watch the game, it was really obvious that Bryce Underwood's got talent, but it felt dysfunctional and chaotic and hard. And they put the young guy, Tommy Caron, and you're like, yeah, that That's

pretty good. So Brady's let's start with that because there's so many unbelievable topics in college football. I mean, I got eight of them here. They're all great off. Maybe the best weekend I've ever seen a college football. So my eyes, you played the position. My eyes told me that Tommy Carr was just, Hey, listen, I can do this stuff. The coaches want me to do. It may not have a huge ceiling.

Maybe it does.

That's what my eyes told me. You played the position. What did Tommy Carr do that impressed you?

He just operated within the offense, you know, right from the jump when he got inserted in, in the very beginning of the first half, or second half, excuse me, of this past week's game. I mean, there's a couple of things that really stood out to me. He only threw the football eight times in this game in the second half. However, They started off the second half with him throwing an RPO over the middle. Typically, coaches don't want to put, especially an inexperienced young quarterback in that position, throwing the football over the middle because that's where the interceptions comes, the tips, the overthrows, things of that nature.

He throws a strike to J.J. Buchanan, and they're off.

And then the next on the third down, he throws a nice little sprint out, completion to Andrew Marsh. If he just ran upfield, trusted speed, probably would have gotten the first down, didn't, but even a flea flicker then later on. So it's an assortment of plays that they're basically saying, This young man's capable, even though he doesn't have the reps, of doing all these things we're asking of him.

And then you go look at the 22.

23-yard scamper he had for a touchdown, and it's like, oh yeah, he's got that dual-threat ability to running the football. So it's no surprise that interjecting a different quarterback in there, who I think did a better job with some of the run reads, but also the reads and the passing plays, helped open up an offense for over 220 yards and 21 points in a comeback victory. Now, it's a different challenge this week versus Indiana with as much pressure as they like to bring. And there was one play in particular where I'm not even sure he saw the corner cat, the corner blitz pressure, but the opposite line, the running back did a good job picking it up. He's going to get a heavy dose of that versus Indiana. They're

typically a team that doesn't like to bring a lot of pressure, but they have the past couple of weeks turning it up. And I would imagine they're going to test him often with his eyes and what he's seeing out there given his inexperience.

Brady Quinn joining us for the radio audience. So, I mean, there was an article the other day that said, and I like Sark. I feel like I've watched Sark coach for so long. He's never. He does the big stuff well. Sometimes on the details, he drives me nuts. I feel like all SART games kind of look the same. They have a great half, a bad half. You know, they do some things brilliantly like recruiting and flash. And then some of the other stuff, I'm like, it shouldn't be this hard. But everybody was saying, well, Arch Manning, when are we going to get the best Arch Manning? When are we going to see this graduation to an X class? And I'm like, folks, this stuff's hard.

And maybe this is what he is, that he doesn't see the field brilliantly. He doesn't see it like Brock Purdy. Some guys see it, some don't. That he's super athletic. He's got good traits. He's a big, strong kid. He's got the Manning family. But it is possible that there, you know this, there's an it factor. They're seeing the field.

Maybe he was a little overvalued, dominating a smaller Louisiana high school. Or am I wrong that there is this massive ceiling? He's going to hit it. Or my take is maybe he's just, this is kind of what he is, which is he doesn't see the field quite as quickly in process. Herbert's got some of this that maybe as he, as other guys do, is it possible?

That's it.

Well, look, everyone's going to process at a different rate.

And that comes down to the individual, and that's something that we don't quite have the ability to measure yet. You can kind of tell based on their decision-making and on film. But you referenced Brock Purdy. That's a guy who played a lot of football during his time at Iowa State, and he fell into a position where I don't know that he could have fallen to a better team and a better coach and offensive line And Kyle Shanahan.

And you mentioned something in asking the question, talking about details. If there's something that I'm concerned the most about this Texas offense, it is the details. It's the fact that their offensive line plays incredibly inconsistent, not only in pass throw, but also in one block. I mean, you see them turning guys free from time to time. You'd never see an offensive line that should be one of those dominant college football.

Really highlighted in that way. To me, it starts up front with them in the trenches offensively.

Then you go back to the wide receiver group where there's not a ton of separation, which to me doesn't fall necessarily always on Wingo and Cam Coleman, two of their top receivers.

It's somewhat of a scheme, too.

It feels like when you're out there, you don't have plays building off of one another, where they're showing you the same formation, the same personnel grouping, and doing multiple things out of that to keep a defense on their toes. That's, to me, good offensive scheme and good offensive football. And so all these things add up to make even more difficult for Arch then to make plays. And then when he has made plays this year, some of that stuff has backfired. I mean, I go back to the Cam Coleman catch where he beat his defender by five yards downfield.

He dives, catches, and all of a sudden the ball gets tipped up and ends up being an interception. You know, Ryan Wingo dropped the touchdown pass in that game. They were fortunate to come back in that game, but all that stuff ends up adding up to being thrown on Arch Manning's shoulders. So has he played perfect this year? No, no quarterback has. You know, I don't know, maybe outside of maybe you say Darian Mensah, who from start to finish had a really solid, consistent season. All of these quarterbacks have had their ups and downs, and this has always been the case. I mean, the fact that we're making such a big deal about it only speaks to, I think, A, what his ceiling may be, but also the fact of what the expectations were, not only for Arch,

but also for Texas. And then it feels like it's more disappointing for Texas as a whole than anything else. I'll leave you on this, on this topic. Last year too, we'd kind of written Arch off after the first half of the season. Well, we're halfway through now. And the problem was, is everyone stopped watching and Arch played phenomenal the second half of the season. So that's where we're at now. I'm not throwing in the towel on Texas or on Arch Manning. They've got some things to improve upon and fix, but it's not just him. It's everyone who's a part of this offense. They need to find their identity. They need to hammer back down on the details.

They need to get better up front and also run the football and take some of the pressure off of them.

Um, Listen, I didn't like the calls at the end of the game. I thought Notre Dame got kind of homered twice. Be that as it may, they didn't play great. They blew some red zone opportunities on third down. They did not play Notre Dame football. I saw criticism yesterday or the day before. People were saying, you know.

They lose a lot of close games to good teams, and they beat up, because of their schedule, half a member of a conference on a lot of average teams. First of all, everybody loses close games to good teams. Ryan Day does. Could be smart, but they all do. I like where Notre Dame's at. But I do think now with super conferences, SEC and Big Ten, nobody wants to play these out-of-conference games. Nobody wants to play Notre Dame.

They're getting on the phone and people are like, I've got to play Texas, Oklahoma, and the SEC now. I'm not playing Notre Dame. I'm not going to South Bend in November. Forget it. So it's a weird spot. That's why I think 2014 playoffs are good for them. Where are you on Notre Dame? I still think Notre Dame can play for the title. I still do. They're good at key positions. Corner, quarterback, coach. I think winning in Pro Bowl is hard. BYU's got NIL money. They got NFL guys. I don't think we think of BYU. I watched BYU-Notre Dame, Brady. They look pretty even. They were both big teams. I don't think it's that punitive of a loss, but because of their schedule, it is. Where do you land today? Where are they going forward?

Well, I definitely think they have the chance to still win a national championship. I mean, they're that talented. That's their ceiling. The problem is there's no room for error. And we saw that after last year dropping the first two games of the season, running the table, but 10-2 wasn't good enough. And I think that's the concern here is it all comes down to the Miami game. Assuming they win the rest of their games, you know, they really.

Need to be 11-1.

They really need that win, I think, for their strength, the schedule, and to prove to everyone out there they deserve to be a part of the playoff. I think if you lose that game or if you were to drop a game to SMU or someone else along the way, you then once again leave it up to the college football playoff committee and you might find yourself on the outside looking in. And so this past week's game, we can talk about the calls and officiating and why there should be more of a push for a national officiating group instead of doing it by conference. I have no idea how we've come to an agreement on an expanded 2014 playoff. and how we're going to play for a national championship, but we still have officials by conference.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

We should bring it all in-house, all under one umbrella for replay, everything else, so everyone's understanding how we're trying to implement whatever changes it is, whatever calls we're doing this year, it's all under the same roof. That, to me, would be a great step for all of college football. Last week, though, what was disappointing was this is a team that was a 10-point favorite on the road. And so I think that speaks a little bit about the expectations for this team that in a big game, got off to a slow start.

They didn't look good offensively. CJ Carr didn't play his best game.

He still showed me flashes of why I think he's the best quarterback in college football. There's a couple throws he made down the stretch that, I mean, there's no one else who was going to make those throws or was accurate. But he was off. He missed a few throws. He had some mistakes along the game, but so did everyone.

I mean, the coaching staff, some of the play calling, You can look at Chris Ash and his resistance to wanting to play more man-to-man versus a team that I think you'd match up with very well. And I understand you lost your best edge rusher to start the game, and that can kind of be a shock to the system.

But that was a very winnable game. I mean, you had a botched punt.

You had a fake punt, which was an awful call on the backed-up territory of And you couldn't take advantage of it in the red zone.

So there's no one that Notre Dame should look nowhere else.

But in the mirror and try to pick up the pieces, make the fixes they need to make, because they are capable of winning it all.

They have the advantage of getting home field versus Miami, but you can't afford to lose.

I mean, they, you can make the case they're in the playoff now every single week, they've got to win and they've got to be able to, in order to advance into the playoff.

You know, the NIL is interesting. So I think it's hurt the depth of the Georges and Ohio States. A prime example that Ohio State once won a natty with Cardell Jones. Well, Cardell Jones would not be on their roster anymore because somebody like Oregon State would go say, here's money. You don't have a great third quarterback. That's not the or at least an experienced one. And so, you know, they've won titles with Craig Krenzel and Cardell Jones.

But the Cardell Jones guys that are talented backups now, they want to start and they're going to play and they're going to leave. And so to me, when you lose Julian saying my take is they're not going to win. They're out of the national championship. There's too many good quarterbacks. Notre Dame, Miami. There's too many good quarterbacks on good teams.

I look at Ohio State and I'm like, Brady, NIL, you've got to play a three-star freshman. I don't even think Ohio State can win a natty now. I don't think it's possible.

Do you?

I think it's still possible.

I mean, you referenced obviously the season they did in 2014 with Urban Meyer. Now, they didn't have to go quite as long into the season in order to do that, right? It was a much shorter postseason for that team to win it all. But look, they're going to have to hang their hat on the running game. They have to get much more physical on the offensive line. And defensively, they have to start being more dominant on that side and getting more pressure, getting more tackles for loss and negative plays.

Which hasn't really been them so far this season.

So they're going to have to lean on a lot of other people outside of the quarterback position. And for all those people who aren't big Julian Sand fans, how are you feeling now if you're a Buckeyes fan? For a guy who completed his career over 70% of his passes, it's like now you're really concerned about whether or not you can even beat Michigan at the end of the season, let alone try to win a national championship.

So.

I'm still a believer in this team because I think they've got a hell of a coaching staff. They have a ton of talent, the best player in the country, and Jeremiah Smith. It just comes down to, can they put together a game plan that allows, whether it's Luke Fahey or Tavian St. Clair or a combination of both, or maybe you use Legend Bay, who did use to play some quarterback during his days in high school. Maybe he comes in as a Wildcat quarterback. Whatever the case is, putting together a game plan that might not be what the identity of your offense has been so far this year, But it plays to their strengths and allows you to be successful.

That's going to be the formula moving forward.

And they've got to figure out what that's going to be over the course of the next week or so during their bye before they play a tough SC team. So I'm not counting them out because history has shown us otherwise. But the Big Ten now is wide open. And I think for the SEC, because you haven't won the national championship now in the past four years, the door is open. You've got some teams that are going to be in contention for it, obviously, despite some of the struggles we've talked about. with Texas and Arch and whoever else, LSU and Sam Leavitt, the door's wide open now because Ohio State was the team to beat in the Big Ten.

You know, people forget John Wooden actually took a few years to get UCLA rolling. We're all impatient. We want you to be great. Ryan Day wins 88% of his games, and he's always under attack from Buckeye fans. I've told USC fans this. Listen, the NIL means you have to go to the boosters and ask for $ 35 million a year.

They just spent $ 250, 000 million on facilities. You want to buy out Lincoln Riley? That's $ 70 million. And the new guy is going to cost you $ 12 million a year or $ 9 million a year. So NIL has actually helped coaches keep their jobs for a lot of these schools because you can't just blow them out. And my other thing is... I want your opinion on Lincoln. If I just said Lincoln Riley, write a paragraph. Where are you today? Obviously, the defense remains an enigma, but they're just tremendous offensively throwing the ball in a throwing era. Where do you land on his position and his space and his ascension right now?

Well, that's been kind of what he's been. He's a great offensive line. And I think that gets you only so far as a head coach. You have to be able to pair together with a solid defense. And how you go about constructing that is a separate conversation. But from his time taking over for Bob Stoops, who really built the foundation of that program and kind of just gave him the keys and let him run it, they obviously had success. And you have guys who are winning Heisman's and making a college football playoff berth, but you're never able to get to the pinnacle. And so then you go to SC and that was the expectation. I think that the tough thing for a guy like Lincoln Riley is you've had good recruiting classes. You've had a

Heisman Trophy winner in Caleb Williams.

You've had.

other talented players come through there. But it hasn't equated to the postseason success. Never winning a conference championship, never having a college football playoff berth. And when you watch what Kurt Cignetti has done, where he takes an Indiana program that was arguably the worst ever in college football history and turns it around in basically two years' time to win a national championship, you have to be scratching your head if you're an SC booster, if you're an SC fan, going, Why can't we do this? Like, we're in a recruiting hotbed. We're in an easy place to get guys to come to. We suppose we have enough money to do so. Why can't we do this? They just did it in the Big Ten. And so, you know,

there's obviously some difficulties for both those teams and the challenge they have. But Kurt Cignetti has made it harder for a lot of Blue Blood programs who aren't having that quick turnaround like they thought they were going to that are well-funded. Where everyone's kind of looking at him saying, well, why can't you do what he's doing? If you're such a good coach, we're paying you all this money. And that's a legitimate question. So look, he's a great offensive mind.

No one's, no one's going to deny that. What they do this season though, that's still all out there for them. They've got some big time games ahead. I think at the end of the day, if they are a 10-2 team with their schedule, depending on who they beat, if it is Ohio State, maybe they don't get quite as much credit for it.

Maybe that UCLA win, all of a sudden, it.

Would look a lot better on the resume, given even their circumstance, even though they're playing with a backup, too. You still look at a couple of those teams and go, if they're able to be one of those two at 10-2, they'll definitely be in contention for the playoff. And if they win them out, obviously, they're playing the Big Ten Championship, and that narrative is changing completely for him.

Finally, by the way, Indiana at Michigan on Fox. Brady Quinn, part of the big noon kickoff. That's a really interesting game. Michigan's secondary is pretty good. Indiana's got great ability to beat you down the field. That's a really interesting matchup for me. And Michigan's offense does look like it's more functional now. So the 2014 playoff, my argument is generally, Brady, that in life, if something, the quality is good, it could be a restaurant.

It can move.

You and your wife will still find it. It can expand and lose its charm. You and your wife will still go. College football's product is so damn good. Last week, Saturday, was so much better than NFL Sunday. The product's so good. We can expand. We can move. It's going to be okay at 24 teams. Or there's the traditionalist that says, you know, you don't love the romance of it, the charm of it. It's a fair argument. Maybe I don't.

Where do you land?

I land on the inclusiveness of the expansion is obviously going to be a good thing. I mean, to your point, if more teams are making the college football playoff, it probably slows down the quick trigger to move on from coaches. You probably don't see as many players being as transient, although the Protect College Sports Act is going to limit that a little bit, too. reducing the amount of times players can transfer before they graduate. So there's some caveats to saying that. But I think the hardest transition for all of us is that you can lose a couple of games now and still feel like your team has a shot.

And that didn't used to be the case in college football. That's where it really.

Differentiated itself from the NFL. That was one of the hardest things transitioning to the NFL as a college football player when you win a lot of games. You're sitting there saying to yourself, I can't afford to lose five, six games. That's an awful season in college. Well, in the NFL, you're probably a playoff team. You're probably winning your division. So, you know, it's changing the thinking, I think, of how a lot of fans and even some of the coaches and players feel about it and their response to losses, knowing that in a 2014 playoff, you're going to have two lost teams, you're going to have three lost teams who are going to be a part of it.

And that just hasn't been the nature of college football. It's traditionally been a regular season sport where it comes down to it, the team that's undefeated or a team with one loss. And based on how that ballgame goes, that was how they're going to be voted or that was what it was going to look like. Well, we've strayed away from wanting to make it a regular season sport, and it's becoming a postseason sport. So, you know, there's some different feelings I have about that in general, you know, but at the end of the day, if this is the direction that we're going, I think it will make the sport better. having more teams involved in a world of parody right now where you just said it last week,

we had five teams in the top seven lose.

Like who's that great team right now in college football.

I really, I really don't know.

Maybe it's Miami, but you know, that was a controversy ending to that game. Like you're telling me Florida state shouldn't have, you know, had that touchdown for deuce Robinson had a chance for a two point to extend that game. There's, there's just so much parody out there. I think it's going to make for a great 2014 playoff when we get there.

This was great stuff. 20 minutes of Brady Quinn, first-round pick, seven years in the NFL, Indiana at Michigan, big noon kickoff. I think that's going to be a really interesting game. Indiana off a loss. They don't lose much. Brady, I really appreciate you.

You've got to thank Dave Coelho. Dave was the one who was supposed to pound the bees, like, we've got to get you on this week. I was like, all right, let's just find a time to make it work. So thank Big Dave for that.

Big Dave, if you can hear us, thank you, Big Dave, for that. We appreciate that. Brady Quinn. Awesome stuff. Yeah, it's hard to get these guys doing big noon kickoff. They're traveling around the country. It's hard for us to get them on Mondays and Fridays. So that is fantastic.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

So sometimes... Businesses, teams, people get a divorce and one side wins. I really honestly believe LeBron and the Lakers divorce, they both win. Lakers opened their season last night at home against the nostalgia tour known as the Warriors, which I don't find that interesting anymore, but I think the Lakers are interesting. Is Luka now going to be a leader, not just a scorer? Walker Kessler, finally a legitimate rim runner and rim protector.

J.J.

Redick, an ascending young coach that Luka loves. Switchable wing defenders to protect Luka and Reeves, who are not good defenders. The LeBron divorce was necessary. LeBron needed people that could protect his weakness, defense, young, defensive-minded guys like a Jalen Brown, Vijay Edgeco. He needed them to protect his weakness. And he needed new young people because LeBron's old. He doesn't give you that juice and energy, although he's great. And by the way, Luka needed a reboot. I love LeBron, but he takes the oxygen out of the room. You're watching Luka and LeBron on the floor. You're like, who's the leader? Who gets the final shot? Well, it should be Luka.

Well, he's not 100%.

And LeBron's always in great shape. And Luka's not in great shape. And now it's Luka's team. And that's what they needed. And the hard part of the NBA is finding your go-to superstar, Jack Luka, and finding a young coach... who the player likes, a young ascending coach, J.J.

Redick, check.

Now, the third piece of that, that the Lakers landed, is Walker Kessler. In the Wemby era, he's our Kareem. You gotta have... a rim protector. You got to have a legit big. And this kid's going to benefit. I mean, he averages nine a game in his career. Walker Kessler was 12 to 12 last night. He's the biggest winner, all this stuff. Now the Lakers will add size over the next two years. You can't beat Wemby with one center.

Look what OKC is doing. They're stockpiling bigs. You got to throw waves and waves and waves and waves. So the Knicks did. Here we got Kat. We got Mitchell Robinson. You got to throw waves at Wemby. So Walker Kessler's a start. But the hardest thing in this league is superstar offensively ascending young coach. And now a big we're in the Kareem Wemby era. Like you got to have multiple bigs. People say they overpaid for Kessler.

I don't know.

Do you think he was overpaid last night? He was 12 for 12. Do you think Walker Kessler, I kept arguing all offseason, well, he's been injured. Well, so was Austin Reeves. So was Luka. Yes, that's a very big question. That is a very big question. Could we get 70 games each? But the idea that Walker Kessler's overpaid, my take was always, well, I'm sure back in the Lawrence Taylor era, left tackles were overpaid. You know, the Tom Brady era, everybody in his division would overpay an overdrafted edge rushers, right? So you've got to have bigs. And that's why the Knicks beat the Spurs. They had multiple talented bigs. That's why Oklahoma City can beat the Spurs on any given night. Multiple waves of bigs. So Walker

Kessler's a start. I think they need to add more size. But what I felt watching the Lakers last night, we have a plan. It's not just a bunch of who's leading, Luka or LeBron. Old guy, nobody's a great defender. I see a legitimate rim protector, a rim runner, length, catch and shoot guys. It's not a winning championship roster. They need more size probably. But you watch the Lakers the last several years and you're like, well, I don't know exactly who should have the ball. Who's the leader? Who's protecting the rim? They've checked a lot of boxes. I mean, I watched it last night. I'm like, oh, that's encouraging.

I can see the plan. And we always talk about this. We always talk about the plan, not just getting a guy. What do you do once you have the guy? What do you protect him with? If you have Luka as your star, there's a way to build around him. It didn't matter with LeBron in his prime. Just give him four starters. He'll figure it out. It didn't matter to Michael Jordan much in his prime. He'd figure it out or Kareem or Magic in their prime. But when you have Luka, a dominant offensive player, A play initiator needs the ball. There are things you need around him. A legitimate guy to protect the rim, guys on the wing, switchable wing defenders, catch and shoot guys. They may get the ball late in the clock. So like this, this

works like this is a real NBA team. I don't think it's OKC right now or Philly or New York or, you know, whoever, San Antonio. But a lot of being a sports fan is connecting the dots and saying, oh, I see where we're going. Sports is not that complicated. Do we have the things you need to be able to compete against great teams? Last couple years with Luka and LeBron's been complete fool's gold. I've rolled my eyes.

Laker fans hate me. You don't like.

No, no, no.

It was just a bunch of nonsense. It was three guys that can't defend. No rim protector. No switchable wing defenders. This is a real team. It's not a great team yet, but it's going to be fun to watch. Cross your fingers on Lucas Health, Reeves Health, and Walker Kessler. I pushed back day one. Everybody said they're overpaying for Walker Kessler.

I don't buy that at all. There is no overpaying for a legitimate shot blocker to protect Luca and engage with Wemby. You can't overpay for that. There's just a limited number of bigs. I mean, that's why OKC went and got Mara. Did you watch Mara? Even a few minutes, you're like, oh, yeah, that works. That's what you got to have. And if you're the Lakers, you're looking at Wemby and OKC. How do we match up with that?

OKC's got a wave of bigs, and San Antonio's got Wemby. You can't overpay for Walker Kessler. So I thought it was really, really encouraging, and I think Luka– Now, can we get to Dallas, Luca? It's your team. Take the responsibility. Be in great shape. That's very hard to do with LeBron, and that's not a criticism. But the Sixers got what they needed. Maturity, distribution, championship pedigree. They got that. That's what the Sixers needed. They didn't need another young guy who could score. That's not, they needed championship. The Lakers needed some oxygen back into the room and they got it.

It's Lucas team with JJ Redick. And here, here's Luke after.

This is the Lakers.

You know, it's one of the biggest organizations in the world, if not the biggest, uh, some very, it's a very, uh, a lot of honor, uh, just to be the, the face of the franchise. And, you know, I hope I can stay here long and, um, It doesn't feel, I mean, not different, but like I said, it's very much an honor and just enjoy this moment.

Okay, so tonight, Bears hosting the Patriots. And I just use the word plan. NFL teams that don't really know what they're doing think once you get the star quarterback, we are home free. The Bears... And the Patriots understood getting the star quarterback, Caleb and Drake May, is step one. Step two, don't go cheap. Get an elite coach, Ben Johnson, Mike Vrabel. Ben doubled the win total first year. Vrabel tripled it. That's only the second part of the plan.

The third part's really important is protective. The Colts got Andrew Luck, thought they had the right coach, never had a good offensive line. The Cincinnati Bengals have screwed up Burrow. He can't even make the playoffs.

Why?

Because they got the quarterback, but they went discount on the coach. Yeah, they got a receiver, but they'd never had a good offensive line. That's why Joe Burrow can't even make the playoffs. For years, the Jaguars have screwed up Trevor Lawrence until they finally got the hottest offensive coach on the market, Liam Cohen. What do you know?

They win virtually every week. It's not just get the quarterback. So many of these organizations, the Bengals or the Colts or Jacksonville, then they go discount on the coach. It really is a three-step plan. Get the coach. or the quarterback first, right? Let's just say you got to find the quarterback in the draft, find the star. This is what the Bears did. And this is what the Patriots did.

They got the quarterback in the draft. And then within a year, let's get the hottest coach on the market. Vrabel was the hot veteran commodity. Ben was the hot young commodity. And then both attack the offensive line. Vrabel drafts a left tackle. Ben Johnson spends money on the interior O-line. Ryan Poles figured it out. He's a former offensive lineman. Bears GM. If you're going to buy the Maserati, you got to have the insurance policy. And that is the O-line. It's not just get weapons. You can find armor on St. Brown in the fourth round. I mean, look at Matt Stafford. He had Calvin Johnson. They could never figure out great O-lines. And then when the Lions finally get Jared Goff and have a legitimate big-time GM,

what do they do? Panay Sewell. They draft tackles. You can find Jameer Gibbs, Omar on St. Brown. You can find those guys. Find the quarterback, spend big money on a legitimate red-hot coaching hire, and protect him. And that's what they've done. Both these quarterbacks have helpful run games. Both have workable tight ends. A Hunter Henry, a Colston Loveland, a Cole Komet. Wide receivers are hard to find. Some pan out, some don't. That's always no first-round position. Bust more than wide receiver. But Patriots' back-to-back seasons, first round, they go to the offensive line. That's a plan. It's not just, uh, it's Vrabel, figure the O-line out. We'll get the weapons later. That's what Ben Johnson did. First

thing Ben Johnson's like, figure the O-line out. Some of the weapons hit, some of them don't. But I think what you're watching is like real plans. And Caleb's going to get a lot of attention. Chicago's a big sports town, middle of the country. Caleb's game's very dynamic. But Ben Johnson talked about this week what he sees with Drake Mays.

It's a dangerous combination of a guy that's an elite deep ball thrower along with he can crush you with his legs also. And I think that combination is deadly. And it's really picked up steam over these last three games. You can see that their offense is putting up points in bunches right now, three-game winning streak, and a ton of explosive plays throughout.

And it sounds easy, get the quarterback. But I think Cincinnati has never spent big money on a coach, and they can't figure out the O-line. And even Joe Burrow can't make it. Andrew Luck retired early. Trevor Lawrence, a great talent. Bouncing around, can't get anything to really work. Oh, then they find Liam Cohen's absolutely red hot. Let's go spend money on him. I can give you a million examples of had the Carson Palmer Cincinnati. You had your 20-year guy. Couldn't get it right. So credit... To the Bears front office and the Bears ownership and the Patriots front office and the Patriots ownership, it is not just the quarterback. I can give you 10 where they butchered it.

Spend money on your Shanahan. Go spend money. What did McVay do when he got to the Rams? The hottest coach. Andrew Whitworth, left tackle, stole him from the Bengals. Bengals, yeah, you could have one of the best left tackles.

Go ahead and take him. So.

By the way, the Patriots' first-round draft pick staff just told me that Caleb Lomu did not give up a pressure or a sack last week. And he was going up against David Bailey of the Jets, who's having a remarkable rookie season for the Jets. Didn't give up a sack or a pressure. First two years, Vrabel, O-line, O-line, up front. That's the plan.

All right.

I know J-Mac is feeling it with Luka. He's already got him penciled into the number three spot in the West.

I tried to tell you guys yesterday and the day before, keep an eye on Luka and Walker Kessler, who basically is, what, the new Jabbar, the new Wilt?

I mean, he didn't miss a shot. He had like 10 dunks.

He is.

Yeah, there was a lot of pushback on what they paid him. And, you know, it's like when you were young in your 20s, I know I was. I had a car that caught on fire. I'm not joking. It was an AMC Pacer. It was 1987. So when you're young and you can't consistently get to work or get things, you can't pay enough for good transportation. Spend the extra money, either buy a really high-end used car or a nice car.

You can't spend enough. When you've had trouble getting to work, you spend what you got to spend on transportation. We have the next Kareem. His name is Wemby. Look at what Sam Preston. doing in OKC. We can't have enough waves of big people. And so like like Walker Kessler is a necessity. He is a left tackle. And you're in a division with Lawrence Taylor rushing the quarterback. You can't pay enough for your left tackle. Just do it.

And so I will defend what the Lakers, you know, I will defend that signing.

By the way, we're going to spend like three months trying to figure out where to let Steph Curry lands. Because we cannot continue this. This Warriors team is horrible. I don't want to see Curry go out like this.

I don't.

Get him onto a contender and let's see him play in the playoffs. That second half last.

Night was unwatchable.

The Warriors are horrible, Colin. And they're such a bad matchup to these Lakers. They don't match up with us.

Jimmy Butler's not coming back until February or something like that.

Okay. Ant was pretty interesting last night. By the way, Brian Kelly... And are Brady Quinn both pushed back, not on Arch Manning, on Sark? That's very rare when a former coach is willing to criticize a current high-profile coach. All that coming up live in Chicago.

Preset AM 570.

Preset number one assigned.

Preset AM 570 LA Sports at height. Make AM570 LA Sports a preset on the iHeartRadio app and never miss a moment of coverage of the NFL. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube, and you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio.

Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows.

Two pros and a cup of joe.

Dan Patrick.

Colin Cowherd. Stu Godson Company.

Live.

Covino and Rich. The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. The Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon. And the Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio.

On YouTube.

Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon, and comment away. So sometimes businesses, teams, people get a divorce and one side wins. I really honestly believe LeBron and the Lakers divorce. They both win. Lakers opened their season last night at home against the nostalgia tour known as the Warriors, which I don't find that interesting anymore. But I think the Lakers are interesting. Is Luka now going to be a leader, not just a scorer? Walker Kessler, finally a legitimate rim runner and rim protector.

J.J.

Redick, an ascending young coach that Luka loves, switchable wing defenders to protect Luka and Reeves, who are not good defenders. The LeBron divorce was necessary. LeBron needed people that could protect his weakness, defense, young, defensive-minded guys like a Jalen Brown, Vijay Edgeco. He needed them to protect his weakness, and he needed defense. He needed new young people because LeBron's old.

He doesn't give you that juice and energy, although he's great. And by the way, Luka needed a reboot. I love LeBron, but he takes the oxygen out of the room. You're watching Luka and LeBron on the floor. You're like, who's the leader? Who gets the final shot? Well, it should be Luka.

Well, he's not 100%.

And LeBron's always in great shape. And Luka's not in great shape. And now it's Luka's team. And that's what they needed. And the hard part of the NBA... is finding your go-to superstar, check, Luka, and finding a young coach who the player likes, a young ascending coach, J.J.

Redick, check.

Now, the third piece of that that the Lakers landed is Walker Kessler. In the Wemby era, he's our Kareem. You gotta have a rim protector, you got to have a legit big. And this kid's going to benefit. I mean, he averages nine a game in his career. Walker Kessler was 12 to 12 last night. He's the biggest winner, all this stuff. Now the Lakers will add size over the next two years. You can't beat Wemby with one center.

Look what OKC is doing. They're stockpiling bigs. You got to throw waves and waves and waves and waves. So the Knicks did. Here we got Kat. We got Mitchell Robinson. You got to throw waves at Wemby. So Walker Kessler's a start. But the hardest thing in this league superstar offensively ascending young coach. And now a big we're in the Kareem Wemby era. Like you got to have multiple bigs.

People say they overpaid for Kessler. I don't know. Do you think he was overpaid last night? He was 12 for 12. Do you think Walker Kessler, I kept arguing all offseason, well, he's been injured. Well, so was Austin Reeves. So was Luka. Yes, that's a very big question. That is a very big question. Can we get 70 games each?

But the idea that Walker Kessler's overpaid, my take was always, well, I'm sure back in the Lawrence Taylor era, left tackles were overpaid. You know, the Tom Brady era, everybody in his division would overpay an overdrafted edge rushers, right? So you've got to have bigs. And that's why the Knicks beat the Spurs. They had multiple talented bigs. That's why Oklahoma City can beat the Spurs on any given night.

Multiple waves of bigs. So Walker Kessler's a start. I think they need to add more size. But what I felt watching the Lakers last night, we have a plan. It's not just a bunch of who's leading Luca or LeBron old guy. Nobody's a great defender. I see a legitimate rim protector, a rim runner length, catch and shoot guys.

It's not a winning championship roster. They need more size probably, but you watch the Lakers the last several years and you're like, well, I don't know exactly who should have the ball. Who's the leader who command who's protecting the rim and, they've checked a lot of boxes. I mean, I watched it last night. I'm like, oh, that's encouraging.

I can see the plan. And we always talk about this. We always talk about the plan, not just getting a guy. What do you do once you have the guy? What do you protect him with? If you have Luke as your star, there's a way to build around him. It didn't matter with LeBron in his prime. Just give him four starters. He'll figure it out. It didn't matter to Michael Jordan much in his prime. He'd figure it out or Kareem or Magic in their prime. But when you have Luka, a dominant offensive player, A play initiator needs the ball. There are things you need around him. A legitimate guy to protect the rim, guys on the wing, switchable wing defenders, catch and shoot guys. They may get the ball late in the clock. So this works. This

is a real NBA team. I don't think it's OKC right now or Philly or New York or whoever, San Antonio. But a lot of being a sports fan is connecting the dots and saying, oh, I see where we're going. Sports is not that complicated. Do we have the things you need to be able to compete against great teams?

Last couple years with Luka and LeBron's been complete fool's gold. I've rolled my eyes. Laker fans hate me. You don't like.

No, no, no.

I don't buy that at all. There is no overpaying for a legitimate shot blocker to protect Luka and engage with Wemby. You can't overpay for that. There's just a limited number of bigs. I mean, that's why OKC went and got Mara. Did you watch Mara? Even a few minutes, you're like, oh, yeah, that works. That's what you got to have. And if you're the Lakers, you're looking at Wemby and OKC. How do we match up with that?

It's Lucas team with JJ Redick. And here, here's Luke after.

This is the Lakers.

Want more H.E.R.D.? The H.E.R.D. streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.

Search H.E.R.D.

To listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Well, Joe Maddon's the perfect guest, not only because he's a two-time World Series champ, He's won one. He's lost one. He had that 3-1 deficit. He came roaring back with that wild Cubs team that's celebrating a 10-year anniversary. But he had managed in small market Tampa. So Tampa comes in the underdog, and I was just talking to him off air, and I want to bring in my friend Joe Maddon, who I'd seen not long ago, and just a fascinating guy. One of the real, you and Theo Epstein and Andrew Friedman were like this group of guys that was like, no, we're not going to do this.

We're going to do this. In fact, baseball had to eventually say, Joe, we're done with the defensive shift. Let's get that. I didn't love it, but I got it. I didn't love what it did for the game. So you were a risk taker. And I said to you during the break, so Kevin Cash is the Rays manager. He played for years, Red Sox, Yankees, I think Red Sox a couple of times. What's the advantage of to not managing the Yankees, the Dodgers, and managing Tampa. What is the advantage that you found in your career when you managed them?

It's kind of like being on the backfield at Junot Tree Park running an instructional league.

Nobody's really watching. Kind of, right?

So you're able to take a greater risk, try new or different things. Things that I had done, honestly, the stuff that you saw us do with the Rays back in the day, 2006, 7, 8, et cetera, was stuff that I did on Gene Autry Field, Gene Autry Park in Mesa, Arizona in the 80s and into the early 90s. That's where you cut your teeth and try different things.

And I had such great mentors. Whenever you want to talk about Gene Mock, John McNamara, Bob Clear, you never heard of, was the greatest coach I've.

Ever been around.

All these guys I would run things by before I actually tried them or they would run things by me that I would want to put in place. Don Zimmer is another great example.

So you were encouraged.

You were permitted to utilize your own methods, your own thoughts, your own experience back then. I don't think it's in play as much today, but that's really why.

I was able to do what I did. And I was really appreciative of that.

So then you went to Chicago, and I mean, I can remember them chewing and spitting out Lou Piniella, big market, aggressive media. And so now Milwaukee's favored in this series.

Right.

Do you think, and I think Milwaukee, the sense is, okay, Pat, you've been here. This team, this has been a World Series-ish level team for several years now. Do you think there's a bit of a disadvantage to Pat because everybody kind of looks at him and Mizorowski and goes, Pat, this is yours. Milwaukee just swept the Dodgers. When you go to your Cubs World Series, did you feel a little bit of pressure? You were the big market manager.

People thought you were going to win the series.

No. Honestly, I never really operate that way.

Even one of the things I always talked about, never permit the pressure to exceed the pleasure.

It's another game. Of course, it's the World Series.

I get all that, but I don't want to change my methods, my approach, because of the importance of the moment or the game. So everything I did going into that was exactly the same I had done during the regular season or I had done years ago in Tampa Bay or the angels in the myelic system honestly it was um i think that's the trap when you feel like you have to do differently or be different or uh attempt a different tact or approach i don't think that's right uh just stay with tried and true i think knowing murph i know murph from arizona state murph.

And i did clinics in tennessee in.

The early 90s i know him for a very long time we've had a lot of conversations there's nothing inauthentic about this fella he's going to keep doing what he's been doing. Sometimes you have an epiphany during the moment, something might just resonate and you might go with it, but that's not because you're trying to be smarter, do something differently. It's something you would have done in July also.

So don't expect them to be anything differently with Murph in their group. They're going to be the same group of cast right there.

Okay.

So you lost a Tampa, then you get back and you win with the Cubs, right? You have world series experience.

Okay.

You may not change Joe, But there's a difference between the Super Bowl and a wild card game in the NFL. There's a difference between the Sugar Bowl and playing for the Natty. Is the World Series, do you worry about, okay, it's a little tight. Did you have to consider the World Series does feel it can be a little colder?

It's a bigger stage. There's more interviews. There's more noise. Does that matter as a manager?

I guess it can. I mean, for me, it's exciting. I kind of liked it.

You know, I didn't really resonate in a way that I would feel.

Like any of that stuff going in every game.

I would prep the same way the night before I would think the same thoughts.

The morning of I'd write the lineup out.

I'd go over my PDF files and, The videos that I had at my disposal, I would do exactly the same things, get to the ballpark. I put the music on as soon as I walk in, have the same kind of conversations. To me, it's about really remaining the same and that everybody else sees the same guy running this whole thing. They don't want to see a different version of me at this particular moment. And that would be the biggest trap possible. So I was cognizant of that, the fact that I really needed to be the same person walking in that room, regardless of of what just happened.

And that's pretty much the mantra that I follow.

The, um, I always use the term analytics. I like analytics, but these are men and you had a huge personality team. I mean, Rizzo and Ross, some of these stories are insane. I'm like, come on, you guys are embellishing. It was a party group. It was Chicago's a fun, big party city. And where, where are you on analytics? I mean, you were always ahead of the curve on this stuff, but are there moments where that you're like, I know my guys.

I know this spot. Take me through because these are analytically driven. I just saw the Brewers. They got 51 guys in the analytics department. Where are you on that stuff?

That could be also called the redundancy department. When you have that many years doing all that stuff, who could possibly compile that much information that would be useful in a seven-game series? That's impossible. And even during the course of the season, I think it's overplayed. I love analytics.

I want information.

I love the analytical version of information because it's more precise. When I had been doing this in the 90s, early 2000s, a lot of this stuff I was compiling on my own. It was kind of like the same kind of stuff or the information in a sense, but it wasn't as accurate because this is every pitch, every day, videotape, data-driven.

All this stuff that I'm getting now is accurate, 100%.

Accurate, according to.

Every game played every night being a monitor. When I did it, it was us against the team, my advanced scout, etc. So I'm all for it. I want this information. I think it's very useful pitching to the opposition. I think it's extremely useful. Where do I position my shortstop? Those are the kind of areas that it's absolutely, I think, foolproof.

The hitter's information about the other team starting pitching, it's okay. But in the moment, you're in a reactive situation.

They're proactive. So it's completely different.

Of course, the information might say on a 2-1 count, look for this, but that's not how this pitcher sees you.

I want all this stuff.

There's areas that I think it's more accurate than others. However, the best laid game plan can go awry. The human analytics really is important during the course of the game. And that is, I believe, your experience and your feel. That is the human analytical world. And that's the part that more than likely is going to decide the game.

So I want both of it.

But both of it meaning I want the numbers, the data, et cetera. But then I also want to be able to rely on what I did In Midland, Texas, in Peoria, Illinois, Mesa, Arizona, Boise, Idaho, all these different outposts.

And then the years as a bench coach. The biggest advantage I had.

Doing all the things that I did was that I was able to observe others do it. figuring out what did I like, what did I not like, what did I thought worked, what do I think did not work? So you can't convince me analytically just to do something if I really, my eyeballs tell.

Me differently in a game situation.

So it's the ability to compile all this, take all this in and then kind of like sift through it and utilize analytically what is necessary and then utilize also what's necessary from your eyeballs perspective.

This is where the brewers are very much like the Cubs. Same part of the country. It's a great baseball city. The crowd is a vibe. It's got a college football feel to it. Tampa, not as much. And I do think, I've said this with the Padres, and I feel like your Cubs and Milwaukee. I don't want to hear that home field doesn't matter. I'm watching it. It feels like it matters. You tell me. I mean, when I watch Milwaukee games... That doesn't tell me neutral. You tell me, did you, it Wrigley, did you have a magic? I mean, we know those Jeter teams in the old Yankee stadium.

They were like ghosts in the eighth inning. Did you feel it helped?

Honestly, I don't think baseball players really feel that, i.e. the Cubs win the World Series in Cleveland, and that place could not have been noisier.

We were down three games to one.

We get behind at Wrigley Field, and we had this wonderful group. I think with baseball, we play so often in so many opposing ballparks. Half of our season is that, obviously, so... You're able to drown out noise. It's kind of like white noise at that particular point. And you're so focused. You have to be really under control of your emotions.

And you have to have set plans and abilities to really focus and really narrow things down.

There's a lot of time to think.

So you have to be able to think in a very micro manner, not so macro.

So with that, I think we are used to it.

I never, like, I remember the whiteout in Chicago with the Rays in 2000, or the blackout. 2008, we show up to play the White Sox in the playoffs, and this place, black towels, black everything, whatever. And I remember just fuzzy stuff raining from the crowd based on waving these inexpensive towels, right? But it didn't do anything to us.

We beat them up pretty good up there. It's a grittiness of your group. I promise you, David Ross and Lester and all these dudes, Riz, zobus they don't care we didn't care and i don't think the brewers care either i think and i don't think the rays do either the rays when they play the guardians in this last series especially that last game after diaz made that proclamation i saw a completely different look on the face of the rays versus the guardians and i thought the race had it from jump.

Street okay one more question um The Tampa manager, Kevin Cash, he's going with Rasmussen in game two. He's not going to go with his ace in game one. So if this was New York, it's the back page of the post. My favorite newspaper, by the way. I just read it this morning. I don't have a problem with it. I mean, I trust the manager. He knows his guys. What do you make of that?

Yeah, I just think when I heard that, I figured Rasmussen needs another day, probably. You'd have to have that conversation with the pitcher himself. Of course, I think if Rasmussen was rested, they felt that he was good to go, that we had not been pushing him, whatever, he would have pitched that first game. So I felt when I heard that, that the inner sanctum there knew that he might have needed another day to be as.

Sharp as he possibly can.

And he's going to obviously pitch again whenever that's necessary. And I think they like maybe Martinez a little bit against the matchup with the Brewers.

I haven't really researched that at all.

But I think there's something there because I know Eric DeAnder very well. The best analytical group I've been with to this point has been with the Rays. That was Eric, Chaim Bloom, Andrew Friedman, all these different dudes that they had there. And even Matty Arnold right now with the Brewers.

They were all together.

I was with these guys in Tampa Bay. So when they gave me something, Yes, I listened. Eric DeAnder was the best at giving me stuff that nobody would think about that.

You could actually put in play and it was accurate. And that's another thing.

Not analytics are created equally. So when you hear the word analytics, not every analytical group is equally as good. They all create their own little cocktails. And they then pronounce what's more critical than other things regarding what our game plan is.

How are we going to bake this thing together?

When I got stuff from the boys down in Tampa Bay, I felt it was accurate all the time.

I really did. Sometimes I got in an.

Argument with Andrew over maybe lineup construction because I was really big into reverse splits. If a reverse split existed with the pitcher and hitters, I paid attention to that. I didn't just go righty-lefty or lefty-righty.

And sometimes you go into some heated arguments. 3-0 count. I liked the 3-0 count with nobody on and two outs.

I wanted my guy swinging right there. I wanted doubles or better. Big argument right there. But a lot of this stuff has since changed. All of these things are wonderful. They're a great part of my development. I brought a lot of, you know, the old school sensibilities to the Rays.

When I got there.

And then Andrew and the group really brought me up to speed analytically speaking. So it was a great marriage and I'm eternally grateful for it.

All right.

I'm going to take Brewers in six. You have any lean, any feel, any vibe for it?

Yeah, I got, I would say seven Brewers. I think it's a seven game series. I think these, they're so evenly matched. I know everybody's in love with Mizoroski, but I'm in love with Rasmussen, too. And also, Freddy Peralta. I'm watching this. Dude, I mean, this fastball, Freddy, I'm really digging that a lot. There's an attitude adjustment with that also.

Here's my fastball. I'm throwing it to you. You can't hit it.

And then he throws that change-up, throwing it to a Bugs Bunny change-up off of that.

So I like that duo.

And I think the Rays do with Rasmussen and Freddie going back to back. Freddie's already showed them that he can't come out of the pen in the latter part of the game. So there's a lot going on there that they're discussing internally that other people really aren't catching on to. So I think the Brewers offensively could do something with them in seven.

But then again, don't be surprised if the Rays win in seven.

Joe, it's a pleasure seeing you, my man. It's great seeing you. And get your lawnmower fixed.

Thank you, brother.

You just told me during the break your lawnmower hit.

A big cinder block. My fault, man. It's killing me.

I should be out there cutting my grass as I get done talking to you. I have to wait a couple of days. It's really disheartening. I love riding the tractor now. I'm weird.

I know. I get it.

No, I don't think you are at all. Joe Madden, good seeing you.

HERD BEST OF THE WEEK: Colin Was Right About the Dodgers and Rams | Herd Hierarchy | Brady Quinn on Arch Manning I Joe Maddon previews the World Series

Kapitelklicken springt direkt hin

Shownotes

Transkriptvom Podcast bereitgestellt · Zeitmarken springen hin