THE HERD – HOUR 3 – JOE MADDON

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0:26 Well, Joe Maddon is the perfect guest, not only because he's a two-time World Series champ. He's won one. He's lost one. He had that 3-1 deficit. He came roaring back with that wild Cubs team that's celebrating a 10-year anniversary. But he had managed in small market Tampa. So Tampa comes in the underdog. And I was just talking to him off air. And I want to bring in my friend Joe Madden, who I'd seen not long ago. And just a fascinating guy. One of the real you and Theo Epstein and Andrew Friedman were like this group of guys that was like, no, we're not going to do this.

0:58 We're going to do this. In fact, baseball had to eventually say, Joe, we're done with the defensive shift. Let's get that. I didn't love it. But I got it, but I didn't love what it did for the game. So you were a risk taker. And I said to you during the break, so Kevin Cash is the Rays manager. He played for years, Red Sox, Yankees, I think Red Sox a couple times. What's the advantage to not managing the Yankees, the Dodgers, and managing Tampa? What is the advantage that you found in your career when you managed them?

1:29 It's kind of like being on the backfield at Unitary Park. running an instructional league. Nobody's really watching. Kind of, right? So you're able to take a greater risk, try new or different things. Things that I had done, honestly, the stuff that you saw us do with the Rays back in the day, 2006, 7, 8, et cetera, was stuff that I did on Gene Autry Field, Gene Autry Park in Mesa, Arizona in the 80s and into the early 90s.

1:53 That's where you cut your teeth and try different things. And I had such great mentors. Whenever you want to talk about Gene Mock, John McNamara, Bob Clear, you never heard of, was the greatest coach I've ever been around. All these guys I would run things by before I actually tried them or they would run things by me that I would want to put in place. Don Zimmer is another great example. So you were encouraged. You were permitted to utilize your own methods, your own thoughts, your own experience back then. I don't think it's in play as much today, but that's really why I was able to do what I did. And I was really appreciative of that.

2:28 So then you went to Chicago, and I mean, I can remember them chewing and spitting out Lou Piniella, big market, aggressive media. And so now Milwaukee's favored in this series.

2:43 Right.

2:44 Do you think, and I think Milwaukee, the sense is, okay, Pat, you've been here. This team, this has been a World Series-ish level team for several years now. Do you think there's a bit of a disadvantage to Pat because everybody kind of looks at him and Mizorowski and goes, Pat, this is yours. Milwaukee just swept the Dodgers. When you go to your Cubs World Series, did you feel a little bit of pressure? You were the big market manager.

3:09 People thought you were going to win the series?

3:13 No.

3:14 Honestly, I never really operate that way. Even one of the things I always talk about, never permit the pressure to exceed the pleasure. It's another game. Of course, it's the World Series. I get all that, but I don't want to change my methods, my approach because of the importance of the moment or the game. So everything I did going into that was exactly the same I had done during the regular season or I had done years ago in Tampa Bay or with the Angels in the minor league system. Honestly, it was. I think that's the trap when you feel like you have to do differently or be different or attempt a different tack or approach.

3:47 I don't think that's right. Just stay with tried and true. I think Knowing Murph, I know Murph from Arizona State. Murph and I did clinics in Tennessee in the early 90s. I know him for a very long time. We've had a lot of conversations. There's nothing inauthentic about this fellow. He's going to keep doing what he's been doing. Sometimes you have an epiphany during the moment. Something might just resonate and you might go with it. But that's not because you're trying to be smart or do something differently.

4:10 It's something you would have done in July also. So don't expect him to be anything differently with Murph and their group. They're going to be the same group of cats right there.

4:19 You lost to Tampa, then you get back and you win with the Cubs. You have World Series experience. You may not change, Joe, but there's a difference between the Super Bowl and a wild card game in the NFL. There's a difference between the Sugar Bowl and playing for the Natty. Is the World Series, do you worry about, okay, it's a little tight. Did you have to consider the World Series does feel it can be a little colder?

4:47 It's a bigger stage. There's more interviews. There's more noise. Does that matter as a manager?

4:55 I guess it can. For me, it's exciting. I kind of liked it. You know, I didn't really resonate in a way that I would feel like any of that stuff. Going in every game, I would prep the same way. The night before, I would think the same thoughts. The morning of, I'd write the lineup out. I'd go over my PDF files. The videos that I had at my disposal, I would do exactly the same things, get to the ballpark.

5:19 I put the music on as soon as I walk in, have the same kind of conversations. To me, it's about really remaining the same and that everybody else sees the same guy running this whole thing. They don't want to see a different version of me at this particular moment. And that would be the biggest trap possible. So I was cognizant of that, the fact that I really needed to be the same person walking in that room, regardless of of what just happened. And that's pretty much the mantra that I follow.

5:47 The, um, I always use the term analytics. I like analytics, but these are men and you had a huge personality team. I mean, Rizzo and Ross, some of these stories are insane. I'm like, come on, you guys are embellishing. It was a party group. It was Chicago's a fun, big party city. And where, where are you on analytics? I mean, you were always ahead of the curve on this stuff, but are there moments where, that you're like, I know my guys.

6:15 I know this spot. Take me through because these are analytically driven. I just saw the Brewers. They got 51 guys in the analytics department. Where are you on that stuff?

6:26 That could be also called the redundancy department. When you have that many news doing all that stuff, who could possibly compile that much information that would be useful in a seven-game series? That's impossible. And even during the course of the season, I think it's overplayed. I love analytics.

6:44 I want information. I love the analytical version of information because it's more precise. When I had been doing this in the 90s, early 2000s, a lot of this stuff I was compiling on my own. It was kind of like the same kind of stuff or the information in a sense, but it wasn't as accurate because This is every pitch, every day, videotape, data-driven. All this stuff that I'm getting now is accurate, 100% accurate, according to every game played every night being monitored. When I did it, it was us against the team, my advanced scout, et cetera.

7:16 So I'm all for it. I want this information. I think it's very useful, pitching to the opposition. I think it's extremely useful. Where do I position my shortstop? Those are the kind of areas that it's absolutely, I think, foolproof. The hitter's information about the other team starting pitching, it's okay.

7:33 But in the moment, you're in a reactive situation. They're proactive. So it's completely different. Of course, the information might say on a 2-1 count, look for this, but that's not how this pitcher sees you. So I want all this stuff. There's areas that I think it's more accurate than others. However, the best laid game plan that can go awry, the human analytics really is important during the course of the game.

7:54 And that is, I believe, your experience and your feel. That is the human analytical world. And that's the part that more than likely is going to decide the game. So I want both of it. But both of it meaning I want the numbers, the data, et cetera. But then I also want to be able to rely on what I did in Midland, Texas, in Peoria, Illinois, Mesa, Arizona, Boise.

8:19 I had all these different outposts. And then the years as a bench coach, the biggest advantage I had doing all the things that I did was that I was able to observe others do it. And figuring out what did I like? What did I not like? What did I thought work? What do I think did not work? So you can't convince me analytically just to do something.

8:37 If I really, my eyeballs tell me differently in a game situation. So it's, it's the ability to compile all this, take all this in and then, and then kind of like sift through it and utilize analytically what is necessary and then utilize also what's necessary from your eyeballs perspective.

8:54 This is where the brewers are very much like the Cubs, same part of the country. It's a great baseball city. The crowd is a vibe. It's got a college football feel to it. Tampa, not as much. And I do think, I've said this with the Padres, and I feel like your Cubs and Milwaukee. I don't want to hear that home field doesn't matter. I'm watching it. It feels like it matters. You tell me. I mean, when I watch Milwaukee games... That doesn't tell me neutral. You tell me, did you, it Wrigley, did you have a magic? I mean, we know those Jeter teams in the old Yankee stadium.

9:29 They were like ghosts in the eighth inning. Did you feel it helped?

9:35 Honestly, I don't think baseball players really feel that, i.e. the Cubs win the World Series in Cleveland. And that place could not have been noisier. We were down three games to one. We get behind at Wrigley Field and we had this wonderful group. I think with baseball, we play so often in so many opposing ballparks. Half of our season is that, obviously. So you're able to drown out noise. It's kind of like white noise at that particular point. And you're so focused. You have to be really under control of your emotions. And you have to have set plans and abilities to really focus and really narrow things down. There's a lot of time to think.

10:13 So you have to be able to think in a very micro manner, not so macro. So with that, I think we are used to it. I never, like, I remember the whiteout in Chicago with the Rays in 2000, or the blackout. 2008, we show up to play the White Sox in the playoffs, and this place, black towels, black everything, whatever. And I remember just fuzzy stuff raining from the crowd based on waving these inexpensive towels, right?

10:39 But it didn't do anything to us. We beat them up pretty good up there. It's a grittiness of your group. I promise you, David Ross and Lester and all these dudes, Riz, Zobris, they don't care. We didn't care. And I don't think the Brewers carry that. I think, and I don't think the Rays do either. The Rays, when they play the guardians in this last series, especially that last game after Diaz made that proclamation, I saw a completely different look on the face of the Rays versus the guardians. And I thought the race had it from jump street. Okay.

11:07 One more question. Um, The Tampa manager, Kevin Cash, he's going with Rasmussen in game two. He's not going to go with his ace in game one. So if this was New York, it's the back page of the Post.

11:20 My favorite newspaper, by the way.

11:23 I just read it this morning. I don't have a problem with it. I mean, I trust the manager. He knows his guys. What do you make of that?

11:31 Yeah, I just think when I heard that, I figured Rasmussen needs another day, probably. You'd have to have that conversation with the pitcher himself. Of course, I think if Rasmussen was rested, they felt that he was good to go, that we had not been pushing him, whatever. He would have pitched that first game. So I felt when I heard that, that the inner sanctum there knew that he might have needed another day. to be as sharp as he possibly can. And he's going to, you know, obviously pitch again whenever that's necessary. And I think they like maybe Martinez a little bit against the matchup with the brewers.

12:03 I haven't really researched that at all. Um, but I think there's something there cause I know Eric Neander very well, the best analytical group I've been with to this point has been with the race. That was Eric Heimblum, Andrew Friedman, uh, uh, all these different dudes that they had there. Um, and even, um, Matty Arnold right now with the Brewers. They were all together.

12:24 I was with these guys in Tampa Bay. So when they gave me something, yes, I listened. Eric DeAnder was the best at giving me stuff that nobody would think about that you could actually put in play and it was accurate. And that's another thing. Not analytics are created equally. So when you hear the word analytics, not every analytical group is equally as good. They all create their own little cocktails. And they then pronounce what's more critical than other things regarding what our game plan is. How are we going to bake this thing together? When I got stuff from the boys down in Tampa Bay, I felt it was accurate all the time. I really did. Sometimes I got in an argument with Andrew over maybe lineup

13:00 construction because I was really big into reverse splits. If a reverse split existed with the pitcher and hitters, I paid attention to that. I didn't just go righty-lefty or lefty-righty. And sometimes you go into some heated arguments. 3-0 count. I liked the 3-0 count with nobody on and two outs. I wanted my guy swinging right there. I wanted doubles or better. Big argument right there. But a lot of this stuff has since changed. So all of these things are wonderful. They're a great part. of my development. I brought a lot of, you know, the old school sensibilities to the Rays when I got there. And then Andrew and the group really brought me up to speed analytically speaking.

13:34 So it was a great marriage and I'm eternally grateful for it. All right.

13:38 I'm going to take Brewers in six. You have any lean, any feel, any vibe for it?

13:42 Yeah, I got, I would say seven Brewers. I think it's a seven game series. I think these, they're so evenly matched. I know everybody's in love with Mizoroski, but I'm in love with Rasmussen too. And also, Freddy Peralta, I'm watching this. Dude, I mean, this... This fastball, Freddie, I'm really digging that a lot. There's an attitude adjustment with that also. Here's my fastball. I'm throwing it to you.

14:06 You can't hit it. And then he throws that changeup thrown into a Bugs Bunny changeup off of that. So I like that duo. And I think the Rays do with Rasmussen and Freddie going back to back. Freddie's already showed them that he can't come out of the pen in the latter part of the game. So there's a lot going on there that they're discussing internally that other people really aren't catching on to. So I think the Brewers offensively could outdo something with them in seven. But then again, don't be surprised if the Rays win in seven.

14:36 Joe, it's a pleasure seeing you, my man. It's great seeing you. And get your lawnmower fixed. You just told me during the break your lawnmower hit a big cinder block.

14:44 My fault, man. It's killing me. I should be out there cutting my grass as I get done talking to you. I have to wait a couple of days. It's really disheartening. I love riding the tractor now. I'm weird. I know. I get it.

14:56 No, I don't think you are at all. Joe Maddon, good seeing you.

14:59 Be well, brother. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

15:01 You bet.

15:02 Yeah, it's fascinating stuff, all these analytic guys. The Tampa has had this, they're like a bunch of baseball scientists down there. And, you know, it's remarkable that you can be the 27th, 28th payroll in the World Series.

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16:04 All right, let's get to Broncos Cardinals. We haven't talked much about this game. It's Sunday afternoon.

16:10 In a late window.

16:11 Broncos, big favorites on the road, which is strange given how bad Bo Nix has played. We've talked about his role on the team and why he is struggling, Colin. And he spoke to the media about having to improve with their matchup against the Cardinals.

16:28 I got to play better. We got to play better. The offense has to play better. And he's going to take, you know, his credit.

16:35 And that's what great leaders do.

16:36 But, you know, it starts, you know, I feel like I can overcome some of the stuff that is putting us in a bad spot. And I feel like I can play better. And, you know, I've looked at my preparation. I've looked at my process. And I've tried to see anything that can, you know, be moved around or be changed so that I can, you know, overcome and just figure out ways to, you know, put us in a better spot.

16:58 I keep waiting for the great first quarter Denver offense. Every time I look at them, my take is, okay, this is the week they get off to a 17-3 lead. I've come to terms with what Denver is, which is going to be sluggish early, and then it's going to be close late, and they'll probably win. And I say that because that's exactly what happens every week with them.

17:19 They occasionally, like a Kansas City game, it unravels. But I mean, this game against Arizona, you and I know it's going to be 10-10-ish at half-ish, and then Arizona's probably going to pull away late. It's not, they just, all their games, I always say this, every Sark game I watch, the big ones kind of feel the same.

17:37 Denver games, like, they follow a script. I think the number's too big, I'd stay away. I think Arizona at home... Now, there's no Harrison, but he wasn't. Maybe they'll be better. I think it's close Denver, but it's a stay away.

17:50 Game for me.

17:51 Yeah, I'm largely with you.

17:53 It's weird.

17:54 Jalen Waddell sounds like he was on the injury report. Not clear if he's going to go this week. Arizona is going to be without Jeremiah Love again. He's just ruled out momentarily ago. I just don't know what to do with this game, because like you, I don't understand the Bo Nix struggles, Colin.

18:09 I mean, it's bad.

18:10 He gets the ball in the first quarter, and they're the worst offensive team in the league.

18:14 Well, historically, no team that trails this often in the fourth wins 80% of their games. That's not the way. Last year, they trailed 15 times, won 14. That's like one of those recovering fumble stats where it eventually... It all evens out. It just keeps not evening out for Denver. And you and I said this through the first six games, if you could go three and three with their schedule, you'd take it. Well, now they have a winning record and the schedule gets much easier. So now it's like, is Denver been, were we all sleeping on Denver?

18:46 Yeah.

18:46 I'm fascinated by the who to blame discussion. Cause if you remember during the Brady Belichick two decade run, it was always like, well, who gets the credit? And it was mostly 50, 50, sometimes 55, 45, right? Yet, we see this Sark Archmanning and Bo Nix and Peyton, and in both cases, we're blaming the quarterbacks. Like, I mean, at some point, like, I know we like Peyton. He sat here on the couch with us for, what, a full season? He was incredible. I mean, at some point, we've got to look at the coach and be like, some of this is on you. I don't know how much, but, I mean, again, you were crowned in Bo Nix last year as... Part of.

19:23 This makes me think, I mean, their only losses are to... undefeated teams so are we just again are we sleeping on denver are they going to blow out arizona and blow out carolina and the raiders part of this part of this is like if you'd have given me a four and two record at this point for denver i would have absolutely taken it. I would have taken 3-3.

19:45 Yeah.

19:46 I would have taken 3-3. So now all of a sudden I look and I'm like, am I just being too hard on Denver? Was this a hard schedule that anybody would have struggled with? And maybe that's the landing spot.

19:57 All right, let's move on to Lions, the Detroit Lions. Colin, this is a... A wacky story here. This emerged, I guess, Sam Laporte of the Great Tight End having an outstanding year. He was ticked off about contract negotiations this week and his comments went viral. So then the media in Detroit asked Dan Campbell about it. This just happened today. And Dan Campbell got super ticked off. Take a listen to this.

20:24 Listen, man, sometimes things happen.

20:25 Things get said.

20:26 It's all good, man. And you can never take anything personal when you start talking about business. That's why business and football, they don't belong with each other. But it's the world we're in, and it makes the world go round.

20:37 For all of us.

20:42 I'm not answering anything. I mean, I've answered this I don't know how many times. So I said I didn't want it to be a distraction, and now it's becoming one because you keep asking these things.

20:52 That's why.

20:56 Yeah, like, the media is just, they almost feel like they have this institutional pressure. Like, I've got to ask you about it. It's like the Vrabel questions coming into the seats. Like, guys, I'm a football coach. It's football. I'm not talking about Sam Laporta's contract. That's all you have to say. Like, Sam Laporta can say whatever he wants.

21:14 He's a player. I'm the coach. I don't care about his contract. If you don't like it, sit out. Like, I mean, to me, you can ask me all the questions you want. I'm a football coach. It's like Belichick used to always say. I'm not a doctor. You're asking me questions. Whenever there'd be an injury, it's like, go ask the medical staff. I'm not a doctor. I would say, I'm not a general manager. I write the lineup. I coach the team. I'm not a GM. I'm not a doctor.

21:38 Like Nick Ceriani said, we gave you a release. We answered the questions. I'm not a doctor. The first thing you should do as a coach is have culpability, deniability. Jerry Jones says I'm not on social media. I want deniability. If I was a coach, I'm not talking contracts and I'm not talking medical stuff. I'm not an agent. I'm not a GM and I'm not a doctor. And that would always be my line. I don't negotiate deals.

22:03 I like that. That would be the perfect comment. Why didn't Dan Campbell say that? Why does he have to get all huffy? And now it becomes a viral moment like Laporta. We're not talking about it on TV. If you just said, sorry, guys, I'm not the GM.

22:15 No impact on the outcome of a game.

22:18 I don't think so. But, you know, Laporta probably sees that. And the teammates see that. You know, Goff sees that. Laporta's integral. They got Gibbs, St. Brown, and Laporta as like a three-headed attack.

22:29 Right.

22:29 And now Laporta's the guy not getting paid. You don't think he's ticked off?

22:33 I would just say, I root for all my guys to get paid. I'm not a GM. Yeah. On to Cincinnati.

22:39 Maybe you should be a head coach.

22:41 I think the less you say to the media, I don't care if you're a president or a coach, keep it tight, succinct, get in, get out, don't be rude. I'm not a GM. I want all my guys to get paid. Jay Macklin News.

22:57 Well, that's the news.

22:58 And thanks for stopping by.

23:00 The Herdline News.

23:01 All right. Tomorrow's headlines today. On a Friday, wrap it up next.

23:09 Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

23:16 Let's not waste any time. The NFL never runs out of storylines. We like to call this, it ends every Friday show, tomorrow's headlines. Today, we start Steeler Saints Sunday in Paris, France. What say you?

23:32 Very exciting game. The Saints left for Paris after their win over the Giants. The Steelers, they took a red eye last night, Colin.

23:40 I don't love that.

23:41 The headline for Steelers Saints from Paris will be the Arc de Triomphe. Saints play Les Miserables. I'll go with the Steelers. Steelers minus three. Now, if this is three and a half, the Saints get interesting. But I do like the Steelers here. Colin, a lot of the New Orleans rushing defense metrics are bottom of the league.

24:02 Yeah.

24:03 31st in run defense EPA. This is a Jalen Warren game. Unless McCarthy screws it up. And, you know, he has this love affair, this affinity for Rico Dowdle, who gets carries when it should be Warren. Warren should be a 20 carry guy. He's got flashes of Jameer Gibbs. We've seen him be very explosive. Again, I'm not bullish on the Saints at all. I think they're way overrated. I know you like Tyler Shuck and he did rebound against the Giants, but he had he had been on the struggle bus for a minute. I just need a big game from T.J. Watt and company. I think the Steelers can cover here. in Paris.

24:35 All right.

24:35 Big AFC divisional battle. AFC North tomorrow's headlines today. Bengals at the Ravens on Sunday. I like Cincy off a bye.

24:45 It's wacky. Lamar Jackson's like playing all these games. He just spoke to the media within the last 15 minutes and was like, hey, you know, I can play if I'm not 100 percent. I'm not buying this, Colin. The headline for Bengals or Ravens will be Snoop.

25:00 There it ain't.

25:01 Bengals limit Jackson's action. I will be like you. I'm on Cincinnati here. Joe Burrow is a huge step up in class for the quarterbacks the Ravens have faced. Again, Colin, this Baltimore defense, I know some people like them. Here are the quarterbacks they faced. Daniel Jones, Tyler Shuck. OK, Dak Prescott, who lit him up for 31 member in the international game. Cam Ward, Michael Penix, Deshaun Watson. Like, that's not a murderer's road. Now you have to face Burrow, off a bye, healthy Chase, healthy Higgins. I think Burrow serves notice here. Now, if Lamar plays, he has owned, he has literally owned the Bengals.

25:40 He is 11-2.

25:42 Against Cincinnati in his career obviously you it's he just has the number of the Cincinnati defense um number on I mentioned this earlier this week Zach Taylor off a buy with Burrow at quarterback he's three and one in his last four so I do think since he conjures up some magic they're my Super Bowl sleeper in uh in the AFC and I do think you know Jonathan Taylor you touched on that Saquon Barkley I think they need to bolster the running back room. Chase Brown's okay, but I would not be surprised if Bengals get the win and then make.

26:13 A move near the deadline. Tomorrow's headlines today, Niners undefeated, but they're at Atlanta Sunday on Fox. Interesting game. I think it's very close. Very close.

26:23 We've been talking about this since Tuesday after Mike Evans went down. The headline for Niners Falcons on Fox will be kiddo man. Kittle big man syndrome. Dirty birds stand on business. I will go with the outright upset and Atlanta Michael Penix delivering. There is some troubling news out of Atlanta right now. They just ruled out their good inside linebacker Diablo. He was their green dot calling plays for much of the season. He's out. You know what that means. Shanahan is going to dial up 15 dump offs to Christian McCaffrey in space. I don't love that.

26:58 I also don't love someone texted me. Hey, this is a Raheem Morris revenge game. He was released by the Falcons as their head coach. He's now the D.C. in San Fran, obviously a different offense for for Atlanta with Stefanski. But I do think this is a close game. I'll say this, if the Niners are able to escape this with a win, and I got the Falcons winning, they go 7-0 heading into the bye, getting healthy. You know, they'll get, hopefully, Demarcus Robinson will be back, eventually Christian Kirk.

27:29 That becomes a team that we can't stop saying the injuries because they'll be 7-0, but I'll go with Atlanta in the upset.

27:35 Tomorrow's headlines today, I think the Texans will win the game against the Giants Sunday on Fox. It's a matter of by how much. I thought Houston looked great in London against Jacksonville. They may be 2-4, but they look like a could-beat-anybody team.

27:49 2-4 and in your herd hierarchy. If you're looking for a blowout this week, Colin, the headline for Giants-Texans on Fox will be J.J. and the Giant Bean Stalkaboo. NY, fee-fi-fo-fumbles. I got definitely the Texans here routing the New York Giants. We'll see if Cam Scadaboo gets back in the mix. He was kind of benched unceremoniously.

28:12 He's in the doghouse with his fumbles, yeah.

28:14 Yeah, but I mean, again, they need him in that offense. This is a Texans team trending upward. A couple weeks ago, remember when Nico Collins was hurt? Their wide receiver room was bleak. They had nothing. The Bengals held them to three points. They now have Marvin Harrison, a healthy Nico Collins. Noel is back from injury, right? All of a sudden, things are looking up. Hutchison is back as well for the Texans. And now it's like, okay, CJ Stroud's cooking.

28:37 They've got something. DJ Montgomery will not play. So it's your guy, Woody Marks from USC, going to carry the load. I just don't know how McCarthy fares. against this defense, right? You got a shaky offensive line, which crumbled against the Saints, now facing Will Anderson and company.

28:54 And, you know, J.J.

28:55 McCarthy, Colin, we saw the interceptions in Minnesota. You think he wants to throw against Stingley in that secondary? I think this is a blowout. This feels like a 37-9 type blowout.

29:05 Yeah, I don't think you're wrong on that. Tomorrow's headlines today, finally. This is a great one. Sunday night, Chiefs missing some old linemen at Seattle. It's going to be very close, but until Seattle can run the ball at all, I don't like Seattle's offense.

29:21 Yeah, no, it's very fair points, and you're right. Jalen Moore, the right tackle for the Chiefs, was ruled out. Josh Simmons, the left tackle, who we keep hearing about, supposed to be amazing, he's on IR again. So problems... For the Chiefs offensive line, however, the headline for KC in Seattle Sunday night will be. Wizard of Oz. Not in Kansas anymore.

29:44 Does not matter. Colin, I'm going with Patrick Mahomes in a rare pick of the Chiefs. I know Chiefs fans hate me. I've seen all the edits you guys make. I love them. I'm going with KC here. This is a reluctant pick because Colin, if you look at just the numbers, OK, every statistical category, Kansas City's better. Why are they underdogs on the road? Every offensive number, defensive number, Casey's better. Now, they haven't played anybody at all. And Seattle has this Darnold turnover problem. I'm reluctantly going to trust Spagnuolo here on the road. I don't know that that Seattle home field advantage is what it used to be.

30:20 I mean, we saw San Francisco go in there and win.

30:23 I know San Francisco Darnold turnovers. Yeah, and also, remember, Seattle had humiliated the Niners twice at the end of last year. So, like, San Francisco came with a massive chip on their shoulder. I mean, I'm taking the quarterback with some semblance of a run game. And I mean, listen, it's going to be a close game. I didn't think I thought there were some good picks. This wasn't one of my stronger ones. I love Cleveland against the Titans this weekend. I will say the one game that you have that is fascinating is the one in Paris, because if you look at the if you look at the Saints defense, you can run on them. You know what I'm fascinated about? is this whole Scataboo thing with the Giants.

31:08 He's obviously good. He was untackleable in college. He's obviously good. He's productive. There's a vibe about him. But man, Harbaugh's got no patience for late to meetings, nonsense, pushback, something it feels like with Scataboo beyond the fumble is at play here. This is an offense that needs him. He's one of those emotional guys. He can charge up the sideline.

31:30 He's a battering ram. He's going to run you over.

31:32 He'll pick up the blitz. assuming he's locked in so uh i'm very excited i'm very nervous about this weekend colin i don't know uh i'm doing well 18 and 12 on the season 60 in the contest these are hard lines i really want to take minnesota but something's telling the line's not moving off six and a half minnesota colts.

31:53 Yeah um no i just don't i don't i'm done i put the colts i think i have favor the Colts in like four games, I'm done with them. Daniel Jones burnt me one too many times. I'm now bitter.

32:07 All right. Good stuff.

32:10 World Series. Four hours away. Rays at the Brewers. Milwaukee at home is a fun watch. Tonight at 7 Eastern on Fox.