The Prelim Podcast I Episode 15 — Matt Kenedy

0:06 Welcome to the Pre-M podcast. Today we have a special guest with us. Our good friend, Matt Kennedy.

0:17 I mean, ultimately, all the guests are specialists. Yes, of course. Is he a big time skill photographer? But he's a really close friend of us. Yes. For many, many years. This is awesome. He used to be one of us. Yes.

0:35 I still have to still be. Well, he's still in my heart.

0:39 Well, I mean, he he's one of us, but to the side. Yeah.

0:44 Like collectively one of us.

0:46 But you used to be really one of us. Absolutely. So much so that we have a connection. I bought his cart. Oh, that's right. You told me. You don't you want to date yourself? Well, we shouldn't. No. The gray haired does that anyway. But Matt Kennedy, welcome to the Freeland Podcast. Yeah. Tell us your story, man.

1:08 This is awesome. Oh man. Where do you want to start? Well, let's start from beginning.

1:13 Okay. Where are you? Where are you from? I'm from Long Beach, California. L Beast. Yeah. So I grew up in uh Seal Beach, Huntington Beach, but traveled a little bit. My stepdad was in the military, so I got to go see some of the other parts of the country, but always ended back in Long Beach.

1:26 Oh, so you were traveling around as a kid?

1:28 A little bit, yeah. Not too much, but here and there.

1:30unknown Uh-huh.

1:31 Yeah. But California's home, you know, California kid through and through. Yeah. So Beach kid. Beach kid, yeah. Skater, surfer. Still am. Not so much skateboarding, but surfing, yeah. Yeah.

1:42 Skater. I got a skater kid. Yeah, I know.

1:44 Yeah. On a side note, as a skater, did you wear a helmet or no? No. Damn. I know. Skaters don't wear helmets, I know. Well, parents want the kids to anyway.

1:53 That's another show. Well, you know, but probably concussions weren't a good thing. You know? No. No. No, no. Free advice for kids. I'll take anything that I can get. Yeah, make them wear a helmet.

2:04 Yeah. Well, it ain't happening now. Definitely. Yeah. Anyway, uh, so you were always uh like a film buff? Did you fall into it?

2:13 Yeah, so I always loved movies, you know. Obviously. Um, I wanted to be a stunt man when I was a kid. Yeah, just because I love like throwing myself off of roofs and you know, just doing adrenaline jumpy, right? Kind of thing. But I also had a love for photography, and I never knew that they were gonna get combined.

2:29 So my mom was a hobby photographer. Oh, excellent. So always had cameras around the house, um, would shoot skating and surfing when I realized I was never gonna be a pro skater. But you could look like one, you know. Um and so that's kind of where my love for photography started. And then um late, no, early 20s, my mom passed away.

2:49 Oh, um, and I wanted to like carry the torch somehow, but you know, you get lost, you know, you're going through grieving, all these things. And I met a second cousin who was a focus puller on sitcoms, and he knew that I liked photography, and he's like, Hey, you want to come hang out, you know, on one of my shows?

3:05 And I think it was a show called Just Shoot Me. It was like a David Spade thing. Yeah. Um, and I'm like, Yeah, I'll go hang out for a night and check it out. And after watching them live tape the show for one night, I was like, You guys get paid to do this? Like, this is amazing, you know. But it was like 2,000 foot mags, you know, four cameras.

3:22 It was different, right? So I instantly I automatically started to learn how to load film. You know, I would go to rental houses and try all the different mags. Um, I was still working, I was working a regular job at FedEx at the time. Well, yeah. So I was delivering packages and learning how to load film, and then I would go out on like student projects and things like that just to learn how to be a camera assistant.

3:44 And oddly enough, one of my deliveries in Long Beach was a house, but it was a studio that I didn't know. And they the guys working there were working on a movie called The Postman for Kevin Costner. And I became friends with his sister who would take the packages. And then one day she's like, Hey, do you want to come in and see what we're doing?

4:04 Storyboard artist, visual effects supervisor, this whole family, right? In Long Beach? Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. And so um I just kind of started talking to him and I'm like, Oh, yeah, I know how to load film. And we just became really good friends. And then he started to, my friend David started to hire me to do uh visual effects plates.

4:22 He's like, I need a camera guy to come out and shoot plates with us. Do you know how to load, you know, VistaVision? I'm like, no, but I'll learn, you know. And so that's just kind of snowballed from there. And then uh, and then I left FedEx and I wanted to pursue being an assistant full-time. You know, it was tough, obviously, but there was so much work back in the 90s.

4:39 You know, it was different. Um, yeah. And then I got into local 600 and started to meet people on day calls and things like that. You know, you can always um I feel like you can always trace all of your work back to one person. Yeah, you know, and that one person for me is I met um Steve Matzinger on an HBO show.

5:01 I was just day playing, and he had a house in Seal Beach where I lived at the time. And so cut to he was day playing on a movie that Jack Green was shooting, and they were shooting in San Pedro, and they needed like second assistance, like right away, because it was like 10 cameras, they didn't have enough assistance, and he knew I lived close.

5:22 So I got the call. I went down there, and uh, I was so green too. Like, you know, stepping onto a movie that size. I mean, our A guys were like Cal Roberts, Jeff Pelton, you know, Ryan Parks, like all these amazing assistants, you know. And uh, but I was gung-ho. I wanted to learn. These are the guys you learn from, right?

5:42 These guys have incredible resumes. And I was ended up a day call ended up being like two weeks. And then they came up to me and they're like, hey, we really like you know how you work. Um, we're gonna move up our loader to like the C second for the rest of the movie. Do you would you mind stepping down and loading?

5:59 And I'm like, no, the opportunity to like learn from you guys. And I did, and I was on that movie for like the next 10 weeks. Nice, and then I loaded for Pelton and those guys for like five years. Whoa, uh that was kind of like those guys helped me get my start, you know. So I don't know. Yeah, I love Jim.

6:14 Just Pelton. Oh, he's the best. Yeah, yeah. I just saw him a month ago. Yeah, yeah.

6:19 Such a good guy. Nice. That's yeah, definitely that's when the business was hopping. Um, yeah.

6:26 And and I was just just uh what year? This is late, late 90s, early 2000s?

6:32 Yeah, maybe like yeah, late 90s. Oh geez, I don't even know. I'd have to look that movie up. It was called A Man Apart. It was just Vin Diesel uh F. Gary Gray was the director, I think. Um yeah, it must have been like late 90s. Yeah. So, but you know, I scratched and clawed for the first couple years when I got into the union, you know, as you do until you meet those people, yeah.

6:57 Start working. Yeah. I feel like now I'm clawless. My claws are doing so long. I have no claw spade, neuter, clawless, you know. Yeah, just flowered or whatever.

7:08 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

7:09 Um okay, so the uh five years loading or loading, seconding, TV movies, commercials, music videos, mostly movies with those guys. Nice. Um, and then I I did a couple series. Um gosh, what I did uh A Season of Angel.

7:26 I should remember that. Nights and one.

7:29 It doesn't all nights, yeah. Never take a job with vampires, or it's like you're gonna work. Yeah, it's all exterior nights or stage. Um, yeah, did some TV shows, but I really liked uh the feature world. So I kind of and those guys mostly did features or they would do commercials in between features, you know, back in those days.

7:46 Um Panavision, right? Yeah. They were mostly Panavision guys, yeah.

7:52 Of course, that's what we were just talking about in the hallway. Yeah, you know, I just remember him, you know, in the hallway all the time working, loading, you know, back at the old Panavision building when they used to have the loading, yeah, the actual loading rooms, which they don't have anymore, but you know, it's a different time, you know.

8:06 But um yeah, I know. I was just looking at your IMDB, Matt, and the one movie that I liked was Cradle to the Grave.

8:14 Oh my gosh. Dude, that movie. So that's another one. That was the same thing with all those guys, Pelton and uh I mean Darren Necessary, Tommy Kleins, like Oh my god, oh yeah. I think and that was another one that I went in on as a day player, and I ended up staying like eight weeks or something. So there were there were like a couple weeks when the entire left side of the call sheet was the camera department.

8:37 So they had combined the second unit and the first unit. I mean, you had Cal Roberts, you know, Tommy Kleins, Kenny Nishino was still working. Like we had all these, yeah, all these. It was ridiculous. We had three steady cam operators. I think it was like 15 cameras, you know. It's like big sticks, you know, it was just so many cameras.

8:56 Like the um little big movie. Yeah, but it was a nightmare, dude. Like the cast, like Jet Lee was great, but DMX. DMX. Like he wouldn't even show up some days, you know, and we would just kind of sit around. And uh I remember like Chris Toll was like working on his car and we were playing basketball.

9:11 And did Jet Lee do any of his own stunts or fouls? Not many. Because I did a movie with Jet Lee, and uh I was shocked at how much he didn't do like I'm like, what? Like Jackie Chan does everything. And this guy, like, he won't even do a one, two, three. Like that's yeah.

9:27 Yeah, yeah, he didn't do much. Yeah, but I guess you get paid, you know, that's how it works. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But it was a tough show. And I think when we wrapped uh the call sheet was like day 85 of 45 or something like that. So like we went way over and it was they used to do that, yeah. Those just yeah, yeah, I mean, you could back then, yeah.

9:48 And I think some of it was because of DMX, you know, like he wouldn't show up. I remember there was a day when the ADs were like banging on his trailer all morning to try to get him out, and you know, he wouldn't come to set, and then by lunch they realized he was actually in New York, he was never even in his trailer.

10:01 So it was just like, you know, one of those they're not even here, yeah. So he would rap us some days and then call us back, and it was just it was a mess. But he made a lot of money and it was a great group of guys. So, you know, we had a good time.

10:12 I mean, it's a big stunt movie. Yeah, a lot of second unit. I mean, well, like you were saying, they combined the second unit with the first unit.

10:18 Yeah. So our director was this guy, Andre Barkovia, who used to be a DP. And then um, I'm trying to think who the DP was. Oh, Darren Okada, I think. Oh, um Darren. But yeah, it was crazy, man. We did a walk and talk with three steady cams, you know, and it was just like the weirdest thing, you know. I don't know.

10:34 And you were loading.

10:35 No, I was a second one. You were second on that one.

10:37 But we had two loaders on it, and you know, two camera trucks and just a burn and film on a gear.

10:42 Oh, yeah, it was crazy. Multiple film stocks. Oh, high speed, night stock. Oh my god.

10:49 So that movie, yeah, that movie was a trip to work on for sure.

10:52 What was your favorite movie as an assistant? As an assistant before we get to the next part.

10:57 Oh, let's see. Uh, I did second unit of Italian job. That was pretty fun. Oh, yeah. Where was that? That was here in LA.

11:03 Oh, I didn't get I missed that call. Yeah. Yeah.

11:07 Um, I mean, they went to Venice, I think, for a couple weeks, but I did the LA portion. That was pretty fun. That's like when the new Mini Coopers at BMW first came out. So that was kind of cool. We did a lot of car mounts and things like that, you know. I think we had 30 Mini Coopers total. Wow. Because you know, you had to have so there were three cars, so you had to have ones for car mounts, and then we had electric ones because we actually shot in the subway tunnels in Hollywood and they wouldn't allow emissions down there.

11:34 So you had to have electric cars, which was crazy. Wow. Yeah, back then. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But they made them just for throne trick mini. Yeah. So that one was really fun. I don't know. There was, I mean, Cradle was fun.

11:46 I just saw, I was just looking at Man Apart. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that that movie was that because I know that they shot some of that in Mexico as well.

11:53 And no, oh, that was that was Wilmington, the Mexico stuff. Really? Yeah, I think we shot a lot of that. It was mostly all LA, as far as I know, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um from Mexico. Yeah. Make it movie magic, right? Yeah. Sprinkle some set dressing on there. Um, gosh, what was I was gonna say? Oh, uh Poseidon.

12:12 I did this movie called Poseidon, which was really hard but fun. I don't know if you've ever done a water movie. It's not, you know.

12:19 Was that it all here in town at the stages?

12:21 Yeah, we had it was like a hundred and twenty shooting days, and I think we only had one location day. Everything else was at Warner Brothers. Oh my gosh. So they built the upside down ship on I don't even remember where the stage names where the tank is. We had a couple stages there, but our biggest sets were built on the tank.

12:37 You know, it was like eight-story sets, you know, and they could gradually fill them with water.

12:42 A lot of hydroflex.

12:43 A lot of hydroflex, but we shot it um linear. So we started obviously when the ship was upright, and then a little bit of water came in, and then it got deeper and deeper until you know we're like deep days must have sucked. Well, I didn't, I was just like the dry guy on the on the diving days, but most of it were either waist high or like chest high water.

13:02 Uh yeah, we all got like sinus infections and our feet were all messed up from being on the water for six months, you know, because it's hot.

13:09 Yeah.

13:10 I mean, because if you're on stage all day, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.

13:13 Yeah, it was crazy, but it was such a good experience. Um, John Seal was our DP. Um, it was fun. There's a lot of like six camera days, you know, that kind of thing, but all in, you know, Hydroflex. And so I was on the B camera with Michael Anler. I don't know if you guys are. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

13:30 And so uh Greg Smith was our operator. So we were the steady cam guys for the water stuff. So Hydroflex had built a bag for the camera and for the sled and the donkey box and the monitor and all this. But every night at Wrap, Mike and I would have to take everything apart. Clean it all out. Because water got into the rig, even with the bags on there.

13:49 Um, so that was you know, it was interesting. But we had a good time on that. There's some funny memories from that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, in there, yeah.

13:57 Legend.

13:58 That's who I worked with with the one on that was a jet leave. Yeah, did you work on the I didn't? Oh no, but I remember Mike was on, I think he was on Cradle too. That's where I meant Squires. Oh, really? Yeah. Any anyway, yeah. This is the one that's where he uh Jet Lee was like on the treadmill.

14:13 Yeah, but he wouldn't get on the treadmill. Like he like they made it as easy as possible for him, and he wouldn't know. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah.

14:21 I think oh no, I was just gonna say I was just looking because you have so you have so much stuff on your resume. And the other movie that I really love was Ray.

14:30 Oh wow, that was a that was another tough one, yeah. So I I was seconding at that point, um, but I got the call from Anthony Capello, and they were in New Orleans, and he called me and he's like, uh, you know, I know you don't load anymore, but I've gone through like two or three local loaders. Will you do me a solid and come out?

14:51 I was like, yeah, you know, because I think at the time I wasn't I we were doing like tests for SpongeBob or something. So I was like, Yeah, a movie with Bot Ray Charles, you know, great, yeah, you know, and uh so I went out to New Orleans and took over the loading, but it was like four cameras handheld.

15:06 Oh, it was tough.

15:06 One take per mag kind of thing, you know, because there's all this musical numbers and you know, New Orleans is just gross weather, you know, because we were there in the spring and the summer. So yeah, you're just you know soaking wet. Soaking wet. I have barely ever got off the camera truck because we were just turning mags around so quick, you know.

15:25 But it was it was a that was a tough, that was a tough shoot. How long were you there? 10 weeks. I don't even remember. Yeah, maybe something like that. I don't know. It's a long time to be in New Orleans.

15:33 Yeah, exactly. You're there for two weeks a week, and it's two yeah, like those two months.

15:37 And that was back in the day where we were doing six-day weeks.

15:40 So I think you know, you look at we were I think we're 90 some hours, 90 hour weeks. I mean, that was the business back then. That was what we all loved because at a certain point of the hour mark, yeah, it was our money. Yeah, you know, like no longer going to Uncle Fan, no longer going to rent or this or that.

15:56 Like now we're making pretty darn good money.

15:58 Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So yeah, let's keep working. Yeah, let's keep working. Um you're not at home, so and you're getting fed. Yeah, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

16:06 Um, I just want to bring this up because I know this is gonna lead into your other side of your story. Is what was your your outlook on when things started changing from film to digital?

16:17 Oh, it's a good question. I think um I only did one or two digital shows as an assistant, and they were both on the um the Genesis.

16:26 Oh, wow.

16:27 Yeah. So that thing, and I was like, oh, this is horrible. Like this camera system, you know, you have to backpack on one guy, you know, if you're doing handheld or state of camera with this long umbilical cord. And um, I was like, I don't like this. I don't want to like learn. I don't know. I had a a moment where I was like, yeah, I'm not sure what I want to do, you know.

16:47 And so then I started, I don't know if it was a midlife crisis or what, but you start thinking about, you know, other things to do. I thought about getting out of the business completely.

16:55 Um so that is that the by the switch from film to digital also propelled you to make the switch from your current job to the future job?

17:05 Yeah, a little bit. Because I think there was also a point where I was like, I don't know if I want to pull focus. It's such an underappreciated job, you know, and the guys that are really good at it are amazing. You know, obviously I'd have to pull on like third or fourth camera sometime, you know, and I didn't mind it, but I'm not sure that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my career.

17:24 And, you know, operating would have been great, but I felt like at that point in time it wasn't like it used to be. You know, in the old days, the loader became the second, the second became the first, the first became the operator, and then the operator became a DP, right? Now it was just everybody was all over the place, like every man for themselves, you know.

17:42 Absolutely. And uh I don't think people were thinking about moving you up anymore. It was just kind of like, well, I want to operate, so I'm gonna operate, and the rest of you guys figure out, you know, what you're gonna do, kind of thing. So so that I don't know, that was part of it too. Like I just wasn't sure how it was gonna do that.

18:01 So I started looking at other options. I started talking to still photographers on the movies that I was doing. Um, and there's definitely an interest there. Did you have a mentor? Um, there was a couple that helped me. Uh a good friend of mine, Justin Lubin, helped me. Um, Mark Felman, who's an old-time unit photographer, he gave me some good advice.

18:19 Um, but it's different than being an assistant because there's only one unit photographer on a film. So they don't want to share a lot of information because essentially you're a competition right away. And I was already in 600, so it's like, you know, it's not somebody trying to get in and get started.

18:35 And back then, I I they were pretty tight and strong, still photographers.

18:41 Yeah. Yeah. They didn't want to give a lot of info out. They didn't want to help anybody.

18:45 No, I remember like you back then you couldn't have a camera on set.

18:49 Yeah.

18:49 The only person allowed to have a camera on set was, you know, wardrobe would pull a DP, you know, stuff. But like it couldn't be like today's world of everybody. Still for you would get a letter or a phone call because yeah, yeah. It was different back then.

19:03 Yeah, it was totally different.

19:05 So it's a really small community.

19:06 It's really it is, yeah. Yeah. And I think um, like I had certain photographers that wouldn't even talk to me until they start to see that I was getting like legitimate jobs and or taking jobs from them, you know, or being up for jobs against them, and then I would get it and they wouldn't, you know, and then it's like, oh yeah, we're buddies.

19:23 I'm like, no, we're not buddies, you know.

19:25 So So now here you are, you're you're uh a second AC working on TV, big movies, everything. And now you're like, okay, I want to become a still photographer.

19:35 Yeah, I made the conscious choice to switch, but I didn't tell the guys I was assisting. Because once you tell them you're doing something else, that's like you're dead to them, right? They don't they're not gonna call you anymore. And I had a family, you know, so I was kind of toe in the line, one foot into stills when I could get the work, you know, and it was was more like uh UPMs and line producers.

19:54 Hey, can you come out and cover our guy for a day? Or can you do prop photos, that kind of thing, just trying to get, you know, some images in a portfolio. And then when I felt like I had a decent enough portfolio, I did about a year and a half on like network TV, you know, just shooting series because you know, a couple days a week.

20:12 But that's fascinating because you there there has to be a connection, like because you just don't say, I want to work on TV, and boom, you get on TV. I mean, you have to I mean you have to know people, people have to know you.

20:24 So the publicist or no, so not on TV there isn't a publicist on set. There's one at the network usually, but so yeah, so I would get contacts from the couple guys that were helping me, and they were like, Hey, call, you know, or email these photo editors at these networks, and then you just, you know, you just harass them until they return an email and you try to send your book.

20:46 We still had physical books at that time, you know. So you'd give them your book or you would email them images just to get somebody to give you a chance, you know, and get a day. And then you start to get a day here, a day there, and then it just kind of snowballs from there. But I I knew I didn't want to do TV.

21:00 I wanted to get back into movies, you know.

21:03 And the difference between for a still photographer, TV and movies.

21:07 Um, so usually, or at least back then, um, you know, maybe have like an eight-day episode for a TV show, they would bring out a photographer maybe a couple days an episode. Uh so it's like your whole career is day playing and specific scenes that they want to do. Yeah, the specific scenes, or you know, there's a guest actor or something like that.

21:24 Um but there's guys that make a great living at it, you know, especially if you're shooting like a couple shows, you can fill up your week pretty quickly. Um, and I did that, but uh the goal was always to get back to movies. Um, and the good thing about TV back then was a lot of feature actors were doing TV shows, so you would shoot like recognizable talent, and so you could get that into your portfolio.

21:47 Now, just just I'm sorry, no, but just to go back a little another layer of dumbing this down a still photographer. So somebody who's not in the business is hearing this. What do you mean, a still photographer? What does the stone photographer do?

22:01 Yeah. So there's uh on mo every movie there's a unit photographer, so there's one photographer, and the closest thing you can compare to would be like a photojournalist covering a film or a series. Um so you photograph everything, you know, behind the scenes, um, the production stills, like during the takes, you know, and everything's used for nowadays it's used for publicity marketing, social media, press.

22:24 You know, anytime you see like entertainment weekly, well, like, hey, first look of you know, this new movie, it's usually the photographer that took the image. And no, unless it's a screen grab with special, you know, visual effects or something like that. But yeah, so you're essentially just shooting everything on Twitter.

22:38 And you were shooting film back then, or were you shooting digital? No, so when I started, digital had just kind of made the switch, you know. But I mean, it was like a 30 D, you know, a Canon 30D with like a I don't even remember how big the cards were. Four gig card. I mean, it was horrible. The images weren't great, you know, but that's how you start.

22:56 Kind of move up and get better cameras. So and then it the technology got better.

23:00 Did you shoot anything with with film?

23:03 Not as a unit photographer, no. No, it was kind of like I I think I came in right now. That's good.

23:08 Because back then I remember, you know, like 36. Yeah. I mean, they're paying for everything, but you can only get a few. Yeah. And you better hope you get something. Yeah.

23:17 But now with digital, you could get rid of uh it was definitely a little more uh lax and liberating, I guess. I don't know. So you don't yeah, there's not as much guesswork or hope that goes into it. Yeah.

23:33 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's such an important part of the the job in terms of marketing and publicity that we don't really be involved in. But we're right next to you.

23:44 And I always, you know, whatever we were doing, if it was shows or movies, it was always great to have the photographer right there next to us. Cause then he'd get in, you know, right, you know, right before we were all were doing a shy, so I was already gonna be in here.

23:57 And it's like, of course. Those are the nice ones. Yeah. I mean, because yeah, like like you remember back in when you were as an assistant, yeah, you know, some some of them are are nice, some of them are great, and some of them are like I guess we get this person away from you. We've been lucky, but yeah, yeah.

24:14 Yeah, no, it's always interesting to hear that because I think coming from a background of being in the camera team, like you would see how the good ones worked, how the bad ones worked. And to this day, like I will watch every rehearsal the blocking rehearsal, the lighting rehearsal. I just don't run in right before they roll the camera.

24:33 Well done, man. That's something foreign to us because what jobs are you on that they're doing rehearsal anymore? I know. Where's this magical place those big guys? I've been on those two, but I guess you try to watch anything that has how they're gonna move the camera, right? You know, you try to figure out where everybody's gonna be.

24:48 Yeah. And nowadays it's a little easier because the focus pullers aren't on the cameras anymore. Yeah, that's true. So um, it's usually just the dolly grip and the boom guy, you know, that you're sharing space with. But I like to watch what's going on, so I know where like where's a good where's a good place to be.

25:03 That's such a strong point for you. I mean, I don't I mean, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I bet you there's not that many still photographers on that end that come from our side.

25:12 No, I can only yeah, think of a couple. Yeah. Yeah, there's not too many at all. You're the main one.

25:16 That's the only one we want. Yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean, but he'd talk about rehearsal, watching the blocking. I mean, that your answers are already you know, your your answers are being pretty much the the questions are already answered. Sure. You know, so it's like that's amazing. Yeah.

25:30 Well, and they uh you know, all unit photographers have different backgrounds. You know, they were either real photojournalists or fashion photographer. I don't know, you know, and uh you can be tell the fashion is from the I mean you can be an incredible photographer, but if you don't know your way around a set or know etiquette, then it's not gonna help you, you know.

25:51 You need to be aware of what everybody else is doing. There's so many moving parts to a set, right? And um, you know, and I don't have to be there for every take, that kind of thing, you know. Like I try to watch and envision what will make the best image from a take, you know, and not sit there and hose it down.

26:09 Um, but just look for those moments, you know, that I feel like would make make the best image, you know. And sometimes you don't need to be there.

26:15 So yeah. Well, I mean, that's the luxury of movies, right? Because then you're always there.

26:20 Yeah.

26:21 But on TV, you're there for a specific purpose. Yeah. And you gotta get it. And sometimes you don't get it because situation has it. Maybe the actor is like, get that person out of my eyeline. Yeah. And now you the whole reason you're there, now you're screwed. Yeah. Because now you got an X on your chest.

26:39 Yeah. And I will say the majority of the worst actors that I've worked with are all on television. Feature ones tend to be a little more professional, they understand the process, you know. And I think too, on features, you're embedded, you know, you're there every day. So you're just TV, it could be a different photographer popping in every week.

26:58 Every week, yeah. You know, and if they don't know their lines, that's the perfect thing. Oh, yeah.

27:03 That is some of the best things on set when the actor explodes on the photographer. Yeah. Especially the photographer that might be new face, you know, and doesn't introduce themselves to the actor, like, hey, I'm gonna take a couple photos. I've been on set where that has happened. Yeah. And in the middle of it, the actor will stop everything.

27:24 Who the F is this?

27:25 Yeah.

27:25 And you're like, you just you know, you're gonna take pictures without introducing yourself? And yeah, yeah, those are great moments.

27:31 Not that and but sometimes introducing you know, sometimes introducing yourself it backfires too. They're like, oh, you're the photographer, great, get out of here.

27:38 You know, for you, yeah, yeah.

27:40 There's no win for you. Yeah. So I just try to read the room, you know, and just see how things go. But yeah, it can be dicey.

27:48 Is there any favorite project you've you've shot where you're like, damn, I can't believe I'm here right now taking these pictures?

27:55 There's a there's a now. There's uh yeah. I mean, there's a bunch. I mean, uh, you know, I did one of the Spider-Man movies, that was really fun. Which one? Uh No Way Home. No, yeah. So I come on, promote yourself. Yeah, sell it in a movie. I know, but it was really cool just because I got to work with all three of them on one film, you know.

28:13 And that was actually really fun because we did the poster shoot before the three of them actually ever stepped on set together. So I got to shoot the three of them together before anybody else did. That's right, because you're shooting the poster. Not always, but yeah, on that one, definitely.

28:27 Yeah, yeah, because uh a lot of your job also is not just shooting the scene like they have you do.

28:33 Oh, yeah, yeah, there's so many other things, you know. Props uh shooting props, you know, like especially on like superhero movies, Star Wars projects, props are a huge thing because they may turn them into toys, you know. So they need reference photos of all that stuff. Um, shooting the sets, you know, if I can shoot them in construction phases, that's always great for like production designer, you know, those people they want stuff, you know, to put in their books as well.

28:58 Um, yeah, anything with costumes, everybody wants images for their portfolios, especially like department heads, you know. Um, so there's never a shortage of things to shoe. You can pop into the makeup trailer and and shoot. If there's prosthetic makeup, you know, the those they love that too. Or if there's monster makeup or creature makeup, you know, there's just tons of stuff to shoot.

29:18 You know.

29:18 Now, how do you handle it when the the camera guy or whatever is like, hey, you got a picture? Can I have that picture? That's a great picture. Me and Tom Cruise. Can I have that?

29:26 It depends. It depends on who the movie's for, you know. Like Marvel and Lucasfilm are really like they their security is like gnarly. It's intense, you know. They don't want any, they collect everything every day, you know, because they want control of that. Um, but like smaller films, you know, after it comes out, oh, you know, I always I always have like a crew folder of images.

29:46 I'll shoot shoot them images, you know. Uh most sometimes I just don't tag me.

29:51 How often do you still shoot crew photos?

29:54 Like of the actual crew? Uh every once in a while. Not like it used to be, right? Yeah. Not too many people ask for them. And and nowadays it's like a crew photo? Ah, really? Like nobody does. That's more of a pain in the ass for you, right?

30:07 Let's get a ladder and get all the widest lights.

30:09 Yeah, I mean, I've done a couple on the last couple projects. But the worst part is you'll do a crew photo and then nobody they won't send them to the crew. They don't, yeah. You know, and the crew comes up, when are we gonna get the photos? I'm like, well, production has it or the studio, you need to talk to this person to get them.

30:25 And they just never send them to the crew. I'm like, then why did you have me take it? You know, it's for the crew.

30:29 What happens for you? Do you uh I don't know if you can say this. Well, like, do you have to go through channels to get access to your own photos?

30:38 Yeah, yeah. So uh there's like a whole approval process, like the um talent has photo approval and kill rights. So they approve everything that I've shot or kill what I've shot. Most of them get like a kill percentage. Oh. Um, so they can kill 20% or of images that are shot. And then whatever's left, then they approve those.

30:58 And then once that's approved, then it the studio approves which ones they want to use for their marketing or publicity. Um, you know, if they need them touched up or whatever they want to change to it. And then um, I'm usually the last one to find out when my images have been approved and are out in the world.

31:15 You know, I'll get like emails or texts from my friends. Hey, did you shoot this? And I was like, I think so. But you know, if it was a year or two ago, you know, you have to go back and try to remember. But um, yeah, it's I usually see them in the wild before I find out interesting that they've been approved and I can use them.

31:32 Yeah. Here's a technical question. Just I'm just wondering if you were talking about like card sizes and stuff. How much do you shoot in a day?

31:38 Like um, it depends on the project. Um, I don't try to go over more than a couple hundred a day. How much do you erase in a day? Um, not that many. I still kind of work like it was film. You know, I try to get it right for first time, you know, exposure, you know, shutter speed, um, and then just composition, you know.

31:59 And then yeah, there's always some that you throw away, you know, if there's duplicates or you know, you mess up focus or something. Um, but I try to keep to like two to three hundred at the most a day to turn in. But like on a movie like Spider-Man, it ends up being like 20,000 images that you send in, and maybe they'll use five, you know, or ten.

32:19 Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah.

32:20 It's a lot of work, and then it's just only three they they pick.

32:24 Yeah, well, yeah, it depends. Uh yeah, you just never know what they're gonna pick, you know, what they're gonna use. You you try I always create like um a selects folder for each week to show them what I feel like are the best images, or the filmmakers, I'll share with them too, and you know, they'll tell me what they think are the best images, and then that's what I will show the studio first.

32:45 And then if they don't kind of like force their hand to look at what we think are the best images, right? And if they don't see what they're looking for in there, then they can dive into the rest of the coverage, you know, and look for yeah.

32:56 You're you're you have one of the rare jobs of being on production and marketing at the same time.

33:03 Like Yeah, you're really kind of straddling it. Like you want, you know what the studio, well, sometimes you know what the studio is looking for um for their whole marketing publicity team. Um, but you're also trying to tell the same story that the filmmakers are. Try to stay true to their vision, um, and then put your own spin on it as well.

33:23 So I'm always thinking of all of those things when I'm shooting. So I try to do a little bit of everything so that everybody's happy. You know?

33:30 Now, is that what you've gathered through your years of experience? I mean, because you didn't really have a mentor. You might have seen people.

33:37 Yeah, I think it's just uh over time you understand. Well, I mean most of the time you can read a script, you know, so I'll make notes um and you know, it never really plays out in real time as it does when you read it. Um but you try to pick what I think might be an interesting scene, even though I'm shooting everything.

33:57 Um, and I'll have conversations with the filmmakers and the studio, like what do you guys, how do you see your key art or your one sheet, you know, or what's like a good first look image. And sometimes they convey it and sometimes they don't. But you just try to keep a you know all those things in your mind when you're shooting, like, oh, this is a bitch and shot.

34:14 This could be the poster, you know? And so you look for those moments, or what do you think would be the best first look image, you know? And just kind of that's kind of like the thought process I go through every day, you know. But yeah, experience. You understand what they're gonna use. You know, if it's a guy in a bathroom, you know, the scenes in a bathroom, you know they're never gonna use that unless it's like a fight or something interesting.

34:37 But if they're just hanging out in a whatever room, you know, and sometimes it's easier than others, like comedies, I feel like are really hard, especially if it's like verbal, because that doesn't come across in a still photo. You know, you don't know what they're saying. So unless it's like action or slapstick comedy, you know, that's easier to photograph.

34:56 But you know, drama, action is always better, I guess. Yeah.

35:00 So uh what was what was be your hardest project that you had to work on?

35:06 Um, I did this Western for Netflix called American Primeval. Um, it was like almost seven months in New Mexico. Oh god. Yeah. Um, that was the Peterberg thing. Um, but it was great. Yeah. I mean, it visually I always wanted to do a Western, but it was probably the hardest thing you've ever done because there were, especially for camera, there was no camera carts.

35:27 You know, I think they had a gator for gear, but most of our locations you had to hand carry like everything in. It was either mountains or streams or desert, or you know, we were in like 11,000 feet in the snow for a couple weeks, you know. It was just really tough, but visually amazing and just rewarding too, because those are the types of projects where I feel like the entire crew bonds so much, you know, because you're like, okay, we're all in it together.

35:55 The trenches, you're not gonna be able to get it. Yeah, in the trenches, yeah. And I mean, I don't think I've ever seen so many special effects guys on a film because we had smoke and dust and you know, fog, and you come home every night, you look like a coal miner. You're just covered, your face, you know, your nose is black from you know, they weren't burning tires, but it felt like they were something you could.

36:14 You could say if they were. Come on, we've all gotten new matches, probably. Yeah, so uh yeah, that one was really tough. And at the end of that, um, my gear was so beat up. Like, you have to get all new gear? I didn't, but Canon had to take apart like two of my lenses, like completely, because they they had to get behind every element in my lenses and replace some of the elements, and just there was just so much, even you know, their weather sealed really good, but there was just so much stuff that f found its way, you know, in there.

36:45 You know, I don't think we used Fuller's Earth, but it felt like it was there naturally. Naturally, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, that was it was really fun, but really tough.

36:54 Yeah. Talk to us about your equipment just now since you were talking about Canon. Are there's yeah, relationships you build as well with them?

37:02 I wish. I mean, I've been a Canon shooter 80% of my career. I did Fuji for a little while because Canon I didn't feel like had got into the mirrorless game as well as everybody else. Um, but no, man, I so yeah, I use Canon, the R series lenses, R5s, R6 bodies. Um I wish I had a relationship with Canon.

37:25 Like, you know, never I've tried to hit them up so many times. Like I had a friend who worked at Canon Cinema, and the response that I always get is, well, you know, we can't use your images because the studios own them, so we can't promote you as a canon photographer, which I call BS because the DPs get promoted when they were in Nikon does it for their unit photographers, and so does Sony.

37:49 So I I just don't think that's a great pitch for Sony and Nikon for uh uh award-winning photographer.

37:57 Photographer, yeah. I don't look. I just love I love Canon system. I mean, once in a while they'll comment like on an Instagram post, but that's like as far as I've gotten. They just I don't think they're interested in uh what I can do for them.

38:09 Now that's interesting too, because back you know back in the day, Canons were everywhere. Canons and Nikons, and then when digital came a little bit later, it seemed like those cameras went just disappeared to the Sonys.

38:24 Yeah.

38:25 You did not go Sony.

38:28 You know, I a lot of a lot of still people most of them. I think most of them in the US shoot Sony. I know a couple other canon shooters, um, but then you get guys in like Australia and the UK, they're all like Nikon shooters, yeah. So um I didn't like the Sonys. The to me, the Canyon like menu system so simple, it's like so user-friendly that I've just it that never really changed much.

38:51 Um, so I like that. Um, where I felt like the Sonys, they're just so intricate and like it might as well be in Japanese for me. Like I I don't know, for me it's hard to figure out, but yeah, most of my French Sony. Yeah, yeah. But if Sony wants to sponsor me, I mean do you know? Matt Kennedy.

39:08 Yeah, yeah, for the right price.

39:10 Yeah, yeah. And do you do you use obviously certain tools for like you know, different lenses for different yeah?

39:16 I mean, uh the two lenses I use the most are the 24 to 70 and the 70 to 200. I do have some primes, um, but I always have two cameras on me, and it's just easier to change it up at the last minute. You know, where primes, you know, you need the hunker down, that's my shot. And then maybe at the last minute, you know, the boom will come in or a floppy will come in, and then you're like, oh, like I can't move.

39:38 Where on a zoom, you can tighten or loosen up a couple millimeters and get around whatever obstacles are there. So zooms, most of us just use zooms on set. Yeah.

39:47 It's just faster, it's more efficient. More efficient. Yeah. Yeah. And then um, I guess the other question is is the blimps.

39:54 Yeah, the blimps. Uh, I mean, ever since mirrorless, we don't have to use the blimps anymore.

39:58 Yeah.

39:58 Yeah.

39:59 Yeah. Specialty that has gone out the window. I mean, what is a blimp?

40:02 Yeah. So a blimp is a sound suppressing housing, you know. Basically, you would hear on old DSLRs, you know, everybody thinks it's a shutter. It wasn't, it was the mirror. You know, as soon as you hit the button, the mirror moves out of the way, and that's what causes the noise. Um, so you had to suppress it for the sound mixer.

40:20 And they didn't work that great sometimes, but they did work. Um they were expensive too, right? Yeah. So there was one guy that was making them his father, uh, Mark Jacobson. I think his dad started the business, and then he kind of went out, and then Aquatech, who's a water housing company, they developed some.

40:37 And so we were using those for a while. And then once Mirrorless hit there, everybody just dropped the blimps. Now they're like on your bookshelf. Yeah. Right. In a museum. Yeah, yeah, they're museum pieces. Um, which was great because it was nice to have like control of your camera. I mean, you got used to shooting in blimps, but you'd have to open it up if you had to change certain settings or and then close it back up, you know.

40:55 Quietly too. Yeah, and they were heavy, you know, and they're bulky and just kind of cumbersome. But yeah.

41:00 The only thing I thought about was just how you were saying you got two cameras.

41:04 I never did that with blimps. It was just too wide of a needed to change lenses. I would just go get a different blimp with a different body and lens in it. Yeah. So it's definitely easier without the side. Yeah, no, for sure.

41:19 So um, would you wear a vest with a harness? How would you hold the two cameras?

41:24 Uh, so I there's a company called Black Rapid that uh they make like a two-camera sling. Um, and you can set the limits on like where your cameras hang on your body so they can be really tight or really loose, and it's just easier. And they don't uh it's not like a traditional camera strap that would slip off your shoulder.

41:41 It's kind of like a backpack rig, you know, so it's two straps with a clip. Yeah, so they never slip, you know, they're just on you the whole time. But everybody does it differently. Some people like to have one camera, you know, not two. I don't know. Just find out what works for you best. Yeah. Yeah.

41:58 Yeah, it's that's fascinating. That's the trip. I mean, just the the different uh options that you have as an assistant, that's kind of fascinating, you know, like zoom lenses because of this reason, prime because of that, yeah. Yeah, just like our job. Yeah, yeah. It is our job. I mean it is our job.

42:18 Yeah, we've it's just you know, just listening to you talk about when you were an assistant and switching over and whatnot, you know, the technology from film to to HD.

42:29 And and and that's something that we can't minimize, the the switch over from you going from an assistant to the still world, because that was uh like a barrier to the the still guys were still people, yeah, men and women were always over there. And it was like a mystery job, and some would talk, and like you said, some wouldn't, but um to see people transition and go over there was very rare.

42:54 Yeah. I only know of two, yeah, and you're one of them.

42:57 Yeah, I think I may have only known of two, and I'm one of them. Yeah, there might be a couple more, yeah.

43:03 I don't know, but uh I'm sure sure, but uh at least uh your resume from the switchover is pretty impressive. I know I I just spoke how you were uh award-winning. Yeah. Talk about that.

43:14 It's just uh it's uh pub publicist awards for local 600. You know, publicists are in our union as well. So uh it's not for the award wasn't for any particular job. It's just I don't know, I feel like popularity contest, I think, you know, like they can nominate whoever they want each year, and it's it's publicists that are nominating you, whether they're studio publicists or onset publicists.

43:40 Um and it's yeah, based off your work, but like I said, not one particular job. Um yeah, and I just won for feature films one year. That's great. Yeah, it was it was cool.

43:51 I mean you were a three time nominee, so you you you won.

43:55 I think I've been nominated like six or seven times. My mistake. Yeah, okay, but some. Some of them are for TV, and uh which is weird because one year I got nominated for television and I never worked on a single TV show in like two years, so I don't know how that's a different how that works. Yeah, it sounds a little funny.

44:11 Yeah, that's so yeah. I don't know, but yeah. All right. Um but you won. Yeah, it was cool. Like my daughter came to the awards thing, and but it's did you have a speech? I did have to say something, yeah. And I wish I would have said something different. I don't know. I'm not good at that stuff, you know.

44:28 It's kind of fascinating because uh at this table there's two award-winning camera people and and one that is not. Who's the second? Uh, this gentleman right here. Uh he's an Emmy, a winning focus poor on a project. I remember this. So it's which project? We're not at liberty to say. Okay. Um yeah, no.

44:48 So this is great. Two big time Emmy and uh excellent.

44:52 I get I mean, yeah, congratulations. And uh yeah, yeah, no. I don't think it's ever helped me get work. He's actually good. So, you know Well, here we're we're we're trying to start that product. I think, in fact, that when I won for feature film uh Spider-Man No Way Home, won for best publicity campaign, and that entire team, like all of my images were used for that campaign, and not one of them thanked me for shooting the images.

45:19 That's how the business goes. So I was like, Thank you as a no thank you. Yeah, that's how you know how you made it, you know.

45:25 I guess so. Yeah, yeah. So it's just funny to me. I mean, I don't care. I'm not that guy. I don't need likes and accolades, but uh well, we need them on this project, so at least I'm gonna do it.

45:35 Yeah, no, I will we've got many likes.

45:38 I got a question for you. Yeah, when you were growing up in Long Beach, did you think you were gonna be in the movie industry?

45:44 Never. Never ever.

45:47 Were you did were you a big big movie guy?

45:50 Yeah, I mean, I love watching movies, you know. I mean What did you think you were gonna be? The skateboarder or something. Well, I mean, at one point maybe you thought you were pro-skateboarder, but I was really into art. I love drawing. So I had plans to go to art school that never happened, you know.

46:04 Um, so yeah, I don't know if I knew what I wanted to be. I mean, like back then, creative jobs just weren't as popular or in demand as they are nowadays, right? I mean, I grew up I'm in my 50s, so it was the 80s, you know, that you're thinking about this stuff or not thinking about it. And so family was supportive?

46:22 Uh they didn't get it. They didn't understand, you know, like why would you leave a regular job to go do this, you know? And I'm like, I don't know, it's fascinating to me, and I love it. And I think we all kind of feed on that chaos that comes with being freelance and working on movies and things like that.

46:39 You know, whether it's childhood trauma that makes you, you know, in that headspace or whatever, or you just embrace it. Um, and that's one of the reasons why I wanted to switch to unifotography because I just loved being around creative people and movie makers, you know, that I didn't want to leave the industry.

46:58 You know, and it's a it's a good living if you can get it, right? I mean, nowadays it's I don't know, but nowadays is just getting it.

47:05 Yeah.

47:05 That's the yeah, that's where the hard part turns.

47:08 Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. It's the hustle. It's the hustle, but yeah.

47:12 I'm like now, most of your career is in the still world, you were in Atlanta, right?

47:17 Because that's where uh I think I've probably done two and a half years in Atlanta. Not consecutive, you know, but um yeah, I don't I did Spider-Man No Way Home there, I did Black Panther there, I did one of the Fast and Furious movies there, I did another Netflix movie. Maybe oh, and I did the last season of Stranger Things there.

47:41 So I have I have spent some time in Atlanta. Talk talk to us about Stranger Things. Man, that was that was uh Is it a tough one? The crew was incredible. I love the crew. Most of the cast was pretty good. There were a couple bad apples. We'll tell that story in a few years. Yeah. And it was just uh, I mean, I don't know.

48:03 It was uh not my best experience, put it that way. Oh there were some issues with the studio that you know came up and I don't know. Strange. Yeah, strange for sure. But I know it's like popular, like my daughter's a huge fan, so you know I'll let them take the credit for me working on that.

48:21 That's now now how do you handle um the ups and downs of the business being like one minute you're working seven months, everything is great, people saying how much they love your work, and then you're not working for the next X amount of months.

48:35 It used to be easier, right? Because you knew that maybe you had a project coming up in a couple months so you could try to decompress and save your money, first of all. That's why I tell everybody, you know, don't live beyond your means. And uh, the older I've gotten and certain things in my life, I've really uh just downsized as much as I can, trying to keep my life as simple as I can financially, you know, and all that.

48:59 Um, but surfing is like my thing. I get out in the water as much as I can. Yeah, it's just kind of that's your zen. That's my zen, yeah. Just being in the water and being active and yeah, that's kind of what I do. And try to stay active, you know. Just it doesn't benefit you to sit around the house and oh, my career used to be great, you know, now nobody calls me.

49:22 I mean, we all have those thoughts. You know, I go through those cycles where like nobody's ever gonna call me, you know, my career's done and I didn't even know it. You know, it's like all that negative talk. It doesn't benefit you, but we all do it, right?

49:34 Yeah, it's your mind just going. That's yeah, it's good, it's like getting outside and being physical and doing something.

49:41 It's like we're an athlete, kind of like we all have an idea in our head when we want to stop. Yeah, but that's not how it's gonna happen. They're gonna stop it for us, you know, or like I'm not ready yet.

49:51 What you know, we love the game, but the game sometimes the game is you know, put us on the sideline.

49:57 And I think that's the hardest thing to grasp right now is like I put close to 30 years into this business. Love, you know, blood, sweat, tears, and now I feel like it's not giving me anything back. You know, like I'm too young to retire. High cholesterol. Yeah, that's what it's giving me. Yeah, yeah.

50:15 But you know, somebody told me I'm I'm too young to retire, but too old to hire. So I don't even know what the like how to take that. It's like uh I guess you say thank you. Yeah, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I think you know, we're all everybody in this industry's hustlers, so we just have to figure out another hustle.

50:32 Whether it's uh I think I've really kind of come to terms that maybe I'm only gonna do one project a year as opposed to three or four, right?

50:40 And so it does seem like that's the way it's going. Yeah. Which is you know, at least at your level, that one project might be multiple months. Yeah, it you hope so. You know, because the those big movies, those are long.

50:54 Yeah, they're usually the big movies are usually at least six months, you know.

50:58 So but those that used to be the standard, yeah. I mean, four to six months back in the day with a second unit attached to it.

51:06 I think the like hundred plus shooting day movies are done, at least in the United States, they are, right? I mean, the closest is maybe like 80 shooting days or something like that, but not in LA for sure. Oh no, you know, and not really, I don't think in the states either, right now. Like I think it's pretty dried up everywhere.

51:23 I mean New Jersey. I know it's busy. New Jersey. Popping.

51:27 I'm not going to be here. Who wants to live in New Jersey? Sorry, New Jersey. Well, but yeah. I mean, I'm available, but yeah, I don't even think we can go there.

51:33 There why not? Union.

51:35 That'd be like well, it's a post-60s thing, right? Like they figure out a ways for us not to go. Yeah. Yeah. So we're still here in California. Yeah, I really wish 600 would change it from the International Cinematographers Guild to like the Regional Cinematographers Guild, because that's kind of besides the cinematographers, you know, not that many people get to go anywhere anymore.

51:54 Oh no. You know. And that was the best part traveling on other people's money. Yeah. And you made more money traveling, right? Yeah, that was the scary part. I mean, some foreign countries you don't want eating. This is very true. Fighting, you know, like oh uh best place you've gone, worst place you've gone to on your travel.

52:12 Uh that's a good question. I mean, I like working in Hawaii, but I think because I'm a surfer, you know, so weekends are like great. Um Dominican Republic, I did a couple movies there. That could qualify as best and worst. I don't know. It's best.

52:27 Yeah, you can do depending on the time of the year.

52:29 Depending on the time of year and like locations. If you're in like the city, great. If you're in the jungles, not so great. You know, dengue fever, you know, all these things you could take home with you, you know, just from being at work. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't know. I like California.

52:46 No, I I do teach you that. I mean, that's why we Hollywood's here, right? That's right. The best weather. Yeah. You know, I see friends like in fact, I saw a friend posted he was working in New Jersey and it was just like underwater, like these huge storms, and they couldn't work. And it's like, that's you know, LA, that's why.

53:03 Yeah, yeah, you know, like 70 degrees. Yeah. Yeah. Or like lightning delays, right? Have you you've been playing like yeah, in New Mexico, New Mexico too. Like, I remember one day we sat on the camera truck for I think four or five hours. We had like 46 lightning delays.

53:19 And like the dirt, you know, everybody's pulling their hair out, and we're just like, Yeah, like how is this financially better than filming in LA when we'd be already on the third scene by now? Yeah. And instead, the worst part that people don't understand is like when you go to those places and you have the lightning and electrical storms, yeah, they turn off the air conditioning.

53:39 So now you're in New Orleans, hot and humid, sticky for hours for nothing. I mean, what are we doing? Well, I you know, and I think nothing against the people in New Orleans. No, yeah. New Orleans is great.

53:50 But I think if the weather serves the story, great. But if it doesn't, there's a lot of other it's the zero that serves the story. Yeah, I know. And California made has made it so tough to be affordable to shoot here anymore.

54:02 It's made it tough just to be affordable to be here. Very true. You know, very true. At the end of the day, you know, Marvel has the money. Yeah, they have the money, as we all saw during COVID. Yeah. Next thing you know, we have a third new crew, just boom, instantly. Yeah. And wait, where'd they get money for that?

54:19 They go, you know, masks. Well, just think of the money they spent on PPE.

54:23 Exactly. Yeah. I think on Spider-Man, we heard that they spent 30 million just on COVID tests and masks and shields. And I'm like, yeah, that's like two movies sometimes, you know, 30 million dollars.

54:36 Yeah. So I mean, geez, yeah.

54:39 I got a question for you. Yes. Matt. Uh this is always my one of my questions. So talk to me how you feel about AI and you know, the technology of AI, and you know, what you feel can benefit you and or what it might not benefit you, you know, what's your what's your take on it? I know it's a tough one.

54:58 Yeah, it is a it's a tough question. Um, I don't know how it's gonna affect my job because I think, you know, I'm capturing celebrities, you know, well-known actors. Like if unless they're gonna give up the rights to their image, then I would worry about it. But I don't think most of them will. You know, I think they want to control how things are put out there, and and that's my job falls into that category as well.

55:23 I mean, we're already seeing it, they're making completely AI movies, but to me, I don't have an interest in as a viewer to watch that because I want to see movie stars or up-and-coming actors, you know, in a film. I don't want to see a completely generated, you know, computer generated character, unless it's like animation or something, you know.

55:42 But I don't know if that interests me watching AI. Yeah, so I don't know. And I feel like like we didn't hear about that for a long time, right? Until the last contract or whatever.

55:53 Yeah, like only time I ever heard of AI was the movie.

55:56 Yeah, yeah. You know, 10, 15, however many years ago. And I think writers will probably use it the most, right? Yeah, I've got an idea, so they spit it into AI, and then it spits out a script, right? And then you go in and fine-tune it.

56:09 You know who's gonna use it the most? The people paying. Yeah. Because it's all about saving money. Yeah, in our career, it's always been about that. Some jobs you get that they don't care about money, which is great.

56:21 Sure.

56:21 But a lot of our jobs, it's all dollars and cents, and the people, in my opinion, paying the bill. There's a reason why they're pushing this. Yeah. You know, they're gonna bottom line, they're gonna that's what I think.

56:35 You're right. It's a business, it's always about money. It sucks. Yeah, because I got in the business because I loved money.

56:40 Yeah, well, I'm too. Yeah, I do love that too. Right. But yeah, yeah. One divorce, two kids later, you give it down eight. Yeah, that's another segment.

56:51 Yeah, but yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen with AI. Yeah, it's uh I don't know. And I'm bad, like, you know, I'll send my kids. Oh, did you see this dog was doing that? That's AI. I'm like, what? That dog's so cool, you know. Like, I can't even tell sometimes.

57:06 Yeah, my dad did that over Christmas. He was showing me and my kids a video of this monkey playing guitar. I'm like, something to add.

57:13 I mean, sometimes you can tell, right? I well, you know, monkey playing guitar.

57:19 Yeah, I I felt bad too because he I burst his bubble.

57:24 Anyway, yeah. Pulled back the curtain off.

57:26 You have a favorite project that you worked on, not location or um a favorite overall?

57:33 Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of them. There is a bunch of them. I mean, that's the thing. It's kind of like picking your favorite kid, right? I mean, some of them for different reasons. Uh some of them were horrible movies, but the crew was amazing and the cast was so much fun, you know. And that's I think the older I get too, that's just what I want.

57:50 I want to work with good people, make the you have the checks cash, you know, and just have a good time. Like if it's a good project or story, then that's just kind of bonus at this point. Um, yeah, I did a Disney project last year called Oswald, The Lucky Rabbit with uh John Favero. And it was just fun.

58:10 It was great hours, you know, it's just kind of a fun story, mostly kids. And we just had a good time on it. I mean, we shot at Disneyland for three weeks.

58:20 Middle of night, yeah. Yeah.

58:21 At night in the day, or during the day. It was crazy. Yeah, they would section off areas for us. And I mean, I have a lot of good memories from Disneyland, but it it's sensory overload for sure. Yeah. With sounds and smells and the same song coming on every 15 minutes. It's much smaller. Much smaller.

58:39 When you walk around the park a hundred times, yeah. You know, and so we had to stage, you know, all our equipment behind the scenes, you know, by Space Mountain, and it's so much smaller from the back. And I worked there in my senior year of high school. Oh, full. But it did cool. It didn't seem that small then.

58:56 But you know, I think as an adult, you're like, oh wow, that's yeah, it's not big at all.

58:59 Yeah.

59:00 Oh, that's cool. So it was fun, it was just a fun project. You know, that's great to hear. That's the most important part, is just I think so. Yeah. Make a little money, have a good time.

59:09 Nice people. What do you tell somebody who comes up to you and says, I want to do what you're doing? Tell me how. Don't do it. Yeah, no, yeah.

59:16 Now explain that. Well, nowadays, in good conscience, I can't recommend this business to anybody. I just I feel guilty. Like, you know, like I'll tell you what you need to do to get in, but that's as far as I go anymore because it's just so I mean, you got 20, 30, 40 year vets that aren't working, right?

59:35 And my son actually went to film school and he graduated this summer and he got a he got a business in or a job in another industry, you know. I think he saw, you know, what we're all going through. And I mean, I don't think he's giving it up, but I think he's like, oh man, this is not as easy as I thought it would be, you know.

59:54 His old man's not working that much, so it's like I can't even lean on him.

59:57 You know, it's a free break. Yeah.

59:59 Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. Like, yeah, I because I've had people reach out to me, you know, and asked, and I'm like, well, this is what you have to do, but beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. You know.

1:00:12 What does uh what does the future hold for you? I don't know. No, I mean surfing surfing.

1:00:18 Yeah, surf as much as I can.

1:00:20 You take uh photos, surfers? Is that a passion of yours as well? I'd rather be out there doing it.

1:00:25 Oh, okay. Yeah, you know, like once in a while I'll go shoot like a big heavy storm that I don't want to paddle around in. You know, I'll go shoot that.

1:00:32 You have a group of guys that you surf with? Guys and pals?

1:00:36 Yeah, it's a group of guys and gals in their 50s, you know, like most of our kids are friends, and so we just go out and surf together. So nice.

1:00:44 And you GoPro on your surfing? I don't. No, I'm a big guy. I can just uh he does his surfing.

1:00:50 Yeah, you can get away from it. And I'm and it's funny too, because I'm not that photographer that like carries a camera with me everywhere. Like some things I just want to remember. Yeah, you know, like I don't need to take a photo of everything and have your phone, right?

1:01:03 If something inspires you, you want to you want to experience the concert and stuff.

1:01:08 Enjoy it, right? Enjoy the moment.

1:01:09 Yeah, having the camera.

1:01:10 I mean, I saw somebody jogging today, and they're just jogging the whole like this. I'm like, well, really? Like who cares that you're I mean they're networking. I guess so. I mean, you know what? It's great that you're outside. I give you credit for that and you're jogging, but it's just like I I mean that literally is chewing gum and walking.

1:01:26 That a whole new level. I mean, streaming, jogging, yeah, navigating.

1:01:31 Yeah, yeah.

1:01:32 Hey, yeah, right. Uh, what's your favorite question? Well, what's your favorite one? What's your favorite word on set? Rap? Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that ultimately I think is mine.

1:01:47 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. No, that was good. Yeah, that's a good one.

1:01:50 Uh what's your uh least favorite word? Grace. Here comes grace.

1:01:59 Um, I don't know. There's so many, right? I don't know. Rolling's a great one, you know. I don't know. It's just because then you're you're watching it all unfold, you know. And if you're if you're privileged to see something really cool, you know, like I said, I've been on some films um where some amazing actors and I've got a front row seat to it.

1:02:17 Yeah. And you're trying to do my job, but you just sometimes it's like that out-of-body experience.

1:02:21 Like, you know. How do you handle the actors that are not um so friendly to still photographers?

1:02:27 I've knock on wood, I've been very fortunate. I've only had a couple that were difficult, and we kind of have conversations and work out like, oh yeah, maybe you can shoot a rehearsal or just do one take, you know. So I've been very fortunate not to have ones that have like completely banned me. There's been a couple of those, but like one take.

1:02:45 What do you mean like? Yeah, but I at this point, um, I'll tell the producers or the studio, hey, this person, they don't want their photo taken. So I don't care. I'll go do something else because I'm also I get paid the same whether I'm on the court or on the bench. Yeah. So if you don't want the images for, you know, Comic-Con down the year, you know, down the road or or whatever, then the fine, cool.

1:03:07 Is there one story with one actor where you were really in like you can be like, wow, had a really great relationship here where Yeah.

1:03:14 So I did this movie called Vice uh with Christian Bale. He played uh Dick Cheney. And, you know, Christian's obviously an amazing actor. Love watching him. And and I was really nervous to do that one because you'd heard the stories, you know, the you know, he's a method and he gets into character. And he absolutely is a method actor and was in character, but just the nicest guy, man.

1:03:35 You know, he would give me um pull asides when they were reloading the camera because it was shot on film, and he would stay in character for me. Um, but just a lovely guy, you know, and an amazing actor. And you would forget sometimes, you know, you're there on set and taking this photo. I'm like, God, this performance is like crazy.

1:03:53 Yeah, I you know that movie was great, yeah, because he got into the whole because he he plays does he uh Dick Change? Yeah, that was yeah, talk about yeah, I didn't couldn't even recognize him.

1:04:04 I know. Well, he gained a lot of weight, and I think they had a prosthetic tummy that he could use at some point, but yeah, he was really into it. Like they did the whole like comb over, and yeah, he was some days he would forget that it was Chris.

1:04:18 That's great. Yeah, it's great to hear those ones.

1:04:21 Yes, yeah, and the whole cast was amazing. Amy Adams, Steve Carell. I mean, so many good actors on that, you know. Yeah, but I think it also starts at the top, too, like our director, Adam McKay. Oh, funny, of course. I and he's probably the smartest, one of the smartest and funniest guys I've ever met.

1:04:37 Like it's just the stuff that comes out of his mouth, it's just like, you know, it's just so fun to be around that.

1:04:44 The atmosphere was set for that.

1:04:46 Yeah, and it but it was lighthearted and fun too. You know, it was a serious movie, but I think um just with that level of talent and then Adam's background, you know, he just made it really fun and enjoyable for everybody. And, you know, once again, it starts at the top, right? It just does. They set the bar on how everybody acts and behaves on set, whether it's the actors to the crew, you know, and that's the nice thing about doing those big movies, at least my experience is like everybody that's hired is either the best at what they do or they bring something to the table, you know, so there's like no egos, you know.

1:05:19 I mean, there's obviously movies that, you know, have a couple people, but um, for the most part, yeah, they're just there collectively to like make make a good project, you know, whether it turns out good or not. You know, who's to say, but as long as the experience was good, I think that's what kind of yeah.

1:05:34 Uh have you been on a movie that you thought was gonna be huge and it tanked, or vice versa?

1:05:39 You've been on a movie that thought it was gonna suck and uh Yeah, I mean I think my resume is probably more stinkers than like good ones, but No. Oh, I don't know. There I'm gonna try to think of one. That's a good question. Um I don't know. I don't know, that's a tough one. I know there are some, I just can't think of them.

1:06:00 We were doing Die Hard, Live Free, and Die Hard. Oh, I was on second unit. Oh, well, that's one of the things.

1:06:06 Yeah, we'll know if I'm not.

1:06:08 I remember film while working on that, like this movie's gonna suck. And first unit hearing all problems and this and that. And like the stunts we were doing early on were kind of like basic, you know, like, oh my god, this is gonna suck. Then dialogue was terrible. Yeah, and it was like the as it is, summer blockbuster hit.

1:06:26 Yeah.

1:06:26 I look like an idiot.

1:06:28 Well, it's so hard to tell, right? Because sound and editing will make or break a movie, you know. And I think when you're there, you're like, Oh, this is so cool. And then they you see it and you're like, Oh wow, what happened to all that? Or vice versa. Like, come on, they did that. That's not even the same movie I worked on.

1:06:45 Yeah, and it's so good, you know?

1:06:47 Yeah. Dang, Matt Kennedy. Uh, this has been a fun hour hanging with you. Uh, it's so cool seeing success from somebody in our position. Yes. Jump over the fence and then be the guy. That's awesome. A still photographer, a mystery position that many people don't really, you know, outside of the film industry know about.

1:07:09 Sure. And uh a super important position to sell the movie. Yeah. I I remember working real quick at Entertainment Tonight when I was in college way back when, and they used to have file cabinets full of this folder of let's say, let's say Star Wars, and open this up, and it's the packet, yeah, with the what he would do, this and then the little butt little summary and sure.

1:07:35 And it was like some of these things were like gold, you know.

1:07:38 Yeah, they still do that, or it comes in digital. It's all digital now, the whole fork is digital. Yeah, but I think mystery is like a good way to describe it because I tell people that don't know what my job is. I'm like, unit photographers probably have some of the most seen images globally, but nobody knows who took them, you know, whether it's from set or it's a marketing sheet for the poster.

1:08:01 I mean, you drive around town, right? Billboards, movie posters, it's like a lot of times we're the ones that do that. Do you have an agent?

1:08:08 How do people get a hold of you for projects?

1:08:10 I don't have an agent. Um, you know, old school. Yeah, it kind of comes from either if the filmmakers don't have someone that you want to use, the studio will usually recommend, you know, we like these three or four people pick. Um, but it's a lot of producers and line producers, EPMs will give us, you know, our names to somebody and then they'll call us, you know.

1:08:33 But okay. Well, all three of us here at this table are available for the next one. Yeah. For any line producer or anybody. Absolutely. Yeah, uh, we're ready. Agreed. We bring our Canon camera and we'll shoot. Yeah.

1:08:44 Let's do it. Yeah, Matt, thank you. I was just gonna say it's just every time I see the you know, onset photographers with us, I always have the most utmost respect for them because I know they got such a big job that sometimes we don't really, you know, just you explaining everything, like we don't really know.

1:08:59 We just think you're just there taking pictures, but there's a whole another side of it that you guys gotta deal with. And, you know, it's just the most utmost respect to you guys.

1:09:08 No, I appreciate that. We all appreciate that.

1:09:10 Yeah, yeah. Well, you guys have you know your job definitely cut out for you.

1:09:13 Yeah.

1:09:14 So yeah, thank you.

1:09:15 I mean, like us, we have our job cut out. I think everybody, right? I mean, you know, we we gotta do a whole bunch of things, but one thing we do have to do is have people like and subscribe so we can get more great guests like this gentleman right here. Uh Matt Kennedy award six time notes. Yes, yeah, uh one time uh winner winner.

1:09:35 So, hey, that's better. You're a winner, too. No, yeah. So well, you didn't really yeah, you just won. It came in the mail. Yeah, you didn't even know. Hey, you know, every make your speech right now.

1:09:47 No, no, no, come on. Yeah, yeah. Like and subscribe to the prelim podcast.

1:09:51 There you go. Uh so many bring you more content like this. Yes. I think every time that direct deposit hits, we're all winners.

1:09:58 You know, I can't remember last time we can that's the problem. Yeah, we can't end it on a sad note. Yeah, no, thank you.

1:10:07 Thank you, Matt. Appreciate it, buddy. Yeah, pretty fun.