The Prelim Podcast I Episode 16 — Colin Follenweider

0:10 Yeah, you've got to this is kind of nice. It's going back to our old experience where the two of us do a show together.

0:19 Yeah, this is how it should be.

0:20 I mean, yeah, you know, fortunately you've got work. I was able to get work, so yeah. It was good. We did a good solo one last week.

0:27 It's gonna be a good one.

0:28 That might be our best one yet to date. You and your pops, which is a that was that was nice. That must have been special for you, yes, sir. Well, this is special for us. This by far is uh uh pretty big. We have our first stunt man on the Prelim podcast, a 16-nominated, uh award-winning stuntman's done such movies as The Odyssey, Deadpool, Spider-Man, No Way Home, Avengers, Ferrari, any big stunt movie this guy has done.

0:59 He has over a hundred movie credits, stunts acting. I mean, it's pretty impressive. Today we have Colin.

1:09 Fallen Whiter. Fallen Wider Fallen Wider.

1:13 I know I was about to fallen that name down. It would have been horrible. But yeah, Colin, this is exciting because stunt is such a such a big part of the movie industry. And no, it's kind of it's a it definitely is a boys' club, exclusive club. Yeah, yeah. But uh this is so awesome to have you on our show.

1:31 Thank you.

1:32 Thank you. Um I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, uh I appreciate you guys reaching out and uh I've watched some of your episodes and I'm like, yeah, it's awesome. So I'm uh I'm excited to be part of what you guys are doing. Yeah, excellent. So but it's not just a boys' club, I want to say.

1:43 No, no. Well, I I know I I was kind of hesitating to say that because there are some amazing uh stunt women and it is growing. But when I first met you many years ago hanging around the the guys, yeah, it was kind of a boys' club back then. Yeah, I mean, at least on the movie we were on.

2:00 Yeah. I mean, primarily, I mean, if you look at just uh just crew across the whole industry, you know, it's like um um you do have I you know I was gonna go down a road, like I don't know, like we need to talk about men and women and and their roles. And uh what I thought was great about uh one of your last episodes when you're talking to Amanda is like how much the female uh presence has grown in the industry.

2:24 Uh and that is the case with the stunt business too. It's like, yes, it's definitely like uh was a boys' club and you know that big um machismo kind of kind of feel to it. But I think bringing in uh the female presence or more opportunities for female actually really um fills out our our role better.

2:44 And I I think we create better products, you know, when you have both men and women contributing to what we do, yeah.

2:49 Well, of course. I mean, like in all across all departments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same deal.

2:53 So we actually worked with a stand-in who was she came from the gymnastics world. Oh, okay. And then uh she's blowing up big time as a stunt, yeah, stunk group. And and the worst thing is I I I forgot her name right now.

3:08 I forgot her name right now. But you know, but we know her very well. Yes, yeah, yeah. We know her very well. She was um she was one of the stand-ins on Blackish for many years. Okay. You know, so yeah, I mean I that's at least from what I remember. Yeah, no. Like she was doing that early on, maybe season one, season two.

3:27 Yeah. You know, so yeah.

3:29 So getting there. Anyway, back to you. Back to you. So as you know, since you've heard our show before, we always do the traditional where do you come from? Oh.

3:39 Yeah. I've been working on this, you know. No, um, I uh I grew up in Colorado. Um I grew up just uh my family was pretty athletic, and so just kind of doing this and that and um competed in track and cycling and baseball, basketball, and um and I was like a I was okay. I was like a B teamer and kind of everything.

4:04 And uh and then my parents kind of saw how how I was with my my best friend and I, uh, we had a Daredevil club, and then so we'd like, you know, like climb up a tree, like, I dare you to jump out. I was like, okay, and you're like, ah, you know, and then your turn, uh, or you know, climb up that rock or jump off that roof or something like that.

4:20 And so my parents saw how I was and they're like, hey, maybe you should try gymnastics. I'm like, nah, nah, nah, I'm doing uh doing wrestling this year or whatever. And um uh and my sister, my younger sister was doing gymnastics, and when I was 12, I went in and did open workout with her, open gym. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, my parents were right.

4:40 This is what I should be doing. And like everything's been a result of that one decision. Um, so Grim, Colorado graduated from high school after high school. I'm like, I want to keep doing gymnastics. So I uh um I got accepted to San Jose State. Uh I was a walk-on, I was not recruited. Again, I was like even as a gymnast, I'm like, uh, kind of like, you know, average plus, I like to say.

5:03 Not like the worst, but you know, not Olympic bound, but somewhere a little bit, a little, you know, in the middle, maybe a little bit above. But I just kept wanting to do gymnastics. And so then I was walking on San Jose State, uh, did that for uh went to went to college there and competed for two years, uh, ended up getting a scholarship just as a walk-on, which is pretty cool.

5:23 And uh I actually didn't even think I was gonna compete um just because like my teammates, there's like 12 of us, and like they were all amazing. But I ended up competing um three events the first year, and then the second year, uh you have to put up a certain amount of people per event. Uh at that time it was six per event, and two of them had to be all-arounders, and then the rest of them could be uh specialists.

5:45 Well, our all-arounders ended up getting injured, and there was one all-arounder, and we needed to put up another all-arounder. And I was like the next best person in line that could do all the events. I wasn't the best person who should be doing all the events, but I was the next person who could. Uh, and then so I competed as an all-arounder for a couple meets, and then I'm like, all right, kind of goal fulfilled.

6:08 Um, then I went, I was a ski bum in Montana for a couple for one one winter, uh, which was amazing. Um, and then I started doing high diving shows um in between my my college years. Um, I did a high diving show in Six Flags Great America. I was 19. It was my first first professional gig. Um we were I was a gymnastics specialist in that, in that show.

6:33 Uh and we uh so I was the trampoline, and then there was diving, and then there's our ladder, uh, and the ladder was an 80-foot ladder into like a 12-foot tank.

6:43 Oh no.

6:43 Um that first year I only got up to 60. But then the next year, uh, I was working at WaterCrunch USA for two summers, and that one was another like gymnastics diving hybrid sort of thing, and uh that was 80 feet into uh 12-foot tank. Damn. No. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty gnarly. Um sorry, so then from there, um I actually got hired at Bush Gardens as a dancer.

7:07 Um I pursued that a little bit in college and and then had an opportunity to to dance at Busch Gardens, which is pretty cool. Uh went back to uh see Boulder, which is Boulder's where I'm from, for a semester as a dance major, and then I auditioned for a stunt show in Vegas. It was uh called the Dueling Pirates Stunt Spectacular, which was um uh MGM used to have a theme park behind it, and it was the pirate show in the theme park.

7:30 And whenever you say a pirate show in Vegas, people are like, oh, the Treasure Island show. There was two at one point. The other pirates. The other pirate show. Um and then um was in Vegas for a couple years doing um uh did EFX, which was at MGM with David Cassidy. Uh and then I did another show at the Luxor, and then I auditioned for Cirque du Soleil.

7:53 Uh they hired me, went to Montreal for four or five months of training, and then they put me or they placed me in O, which is at the Bellagio, and uh did that for three years. How many shows a day? Uh two shows a day, ten a week. We had two days off. Oh wow. Um and uh I was part of the uh ensemble or house troop.

8:14 Um and then there was like specialty acts and there's house troop acts, and and so like the house troop act, house troop acts really you know the big numbers with a lot of people doing stuff. So I did um uh Russian swing on that one. I did high dive, it was 60 feet uh out of the rafters. Um did a thing called Cerseau, which is uh or Spanish Lire, it's a metal hoop uh that's on a swivel and we like get lifted and spin around and do our our routine on it, um, as well as other things throughout the show.

8:44 Yeah.

8:45 Were you so you were this is a question, this is something. Were you living in the casino or did they put you that I've always wondered that because of you know how it works in Vegas or you know, with the you know, with all the shows. How does that how does that work?

9:00 Yeah, it's a good question. Um so uh when I first moved to Vegas, they're like, hey, uh that was for the dually empire show. And they're like, hey, here's your we want to hire you, here's when you're starting. And that's it, right? So then you it's just like a normal job. You gotta go there and you gotta find where to work and or sorry, find where to live.

9:20 And like you, yes, that's your job, but you know, Vegas is a whole city around it. And it's just like moving to a new city and it's just it's pretty normal that process, right? Uh for Circ, they had like a two-week um relocation fee, or not fee, but like uh resource. So when they brought new people there, they would put them up for two weeks or a month, and then you have to find your own housing and stuff.

9:44 So we don't we just we just get our salary, um, but we don't get like additional like uh living expenses um on the on the stationary shows. So yeah, so it was just like, hey, here you are, here's your job. All right, here's uh a place you can stay. Now we now you gotta find your own place. So and Vegas is just, you know, it's it's just a a sprawling city of strip malls and housing developments.

10:09 And like once you get away from the strip, it's pretty standard, you know, like any other standard town, basically, except you know, you go into the convenience store and you're like, Yeah, you see you see what I can get with this 20. Yeah. Well, nothing again. I don't know why I travel. Save my money.

10:26 Yeah.

10:27 So uh uh being a young colin at this time, was this like you made it or you were still driving to get somewhere else?

10:37 Uh I I kind of I don't necessarily have like and I yes, it was driving for somewhere else. Like I um growed up in Colorado. I'd already always seen stunt work in film, and I'd be like, oh, this is this would be cool to be a stunt man, you know, but there's no there's no avenue or no path in Colorado.

11:01 Um I actually uh used to fall down my stairs to my room in high school just for fun. I lived in the basement and they were carpeted stairs, and you know, like instead of instead of walking down, I was like, yeah, I'll just fall. So a friend of mine actually found out that that's what I did. And he's like, hey, you should do that in school.

11:20 And I'm like, no way, man. No, I'm not gonna. But he kept on bugging me. He's like, Come on, come on, come on. I'm like, all right, next uh Thursday, science wing stairs. And it's like, okay, so um I kept on walking up the stairs and counting them, like, how am I gonna do this? I've never done this many stairs.

11:34 There's like five stairs and then a landing and then 19 stairs, and they're all tile. I'm like, uh, you know, all right, I guess, I guess we're gonna do this. And um, I didn't tell anyone, but he told people. So, like the between whatever periods it was, people started lining up, you know, to see me fall down his stairs.

11:51 And uh it's like, okay, like there's people still trying to get to class, and like someone yells, get off the stairs. He's like, What's going on? Like, what the fuck is this? And um uh so then when it was clear, I start start down the stairs. I trip over the first five and then like hit the wall on the landing area and then kind of stumble backwards and then turn and like just tumble down the other 19 stairs.

12:13 And I had a three-wing three-ring binder and that opened up so papers were going like this and tumbling down.

12:19 You know how to sell it.

12:20 Yeah, it was awesome, right? Get down to the bottom and uh lay there for a second and then popped up, like, I'm all right. And everyone clapped and you know, then went to class. But uh so I think I'd always had wanted to be a stunt man. And so the Cirque stuff, the acrobatic stuff, that was all awesome.

12:35 But it's like I still had I left Cirque not because I didn't like it, but because I wanted to pursue stunts in film and television.

12:43 And how did you uh what how did that happen for you?

12:46 Oh slowly, yeah. Um painful. Painful, yeah. No, I uh so I moved down, what's 2002? Um I um I come from the live show world, and so there's a a bunch of there was a bunch of live stunt shows around LA, and so I I auditioned for them. So when I moved down 2002, uh I auditioned for the Batman or Robin Stunt show uh up at Six Flags, and I got that.

13:14 And then I auditioned for Phantasmic, which is uh down at Disney. Uh it's where my I went I met my wife actually. We both were work were performers in the show. And um, and then I also not that year, but the next year, ended up working for the wee year after working at Waterworld. So I was doing three shows uh Bammer Robin Stunt Show, Phantasmic, and Waterworld, while trying to pursue stunts in film and television.

13:39 Waterworld at Universal at Universal, yeah. And I think that's still going.

13:43 It's still going. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Wow. It's going strong. I love I just recently seen that. So yeah, that's an awesome show. It's an awesome show. Yeah, yeah. I think it was last summer. Oh, okay. And went down there with my girls, so yeah. Oh, yeah.

13:57 So I mean it's been going on since I don't know, like 95 or something. Yeah. Like it's been crazy long.

14:06 Yeah. Now when you got to LA, I mean, being from Colorado, that must have been a big change.

14:14 Uh yeah.

14:15 The hustle, the bustle, the I mean, everything.

14:18 Yeah, pursue. Um, I I think coming from Vegas, like since I lived in Vegas for actually four and a half years before coming here, it's just like Vegas like changes, warps your view of reality a little bit. Not like in a way that like you can get anything at any time in Vegas, right? So it's like we would get off of shows at 12 30, 1 o'clock in the morning, and it's just like, you know, I'm out of eggs.

14:45 So then you just go to the grocery store, you know, it's like, hey, the bar's closed. No, they never close. Like, all right, well, let's go through the bar. So it's like you can always do something. So like coming from that, moving down to LA, the the distance is greater, the traffic is more, you know, but you kind of get that's just a way of life.

15:04 But um it was the fact that things closed was uh it was actually the hardest adjustment. I was gonna say LA's way slower than Vegas. Vegas is that is true, you know.

15:14 So wow.

15:15 Yeah, it's emergency breaks. So you you came to LA uh from Vegas and you hit the jackpot with the uh TV show you got on, which was 24.

15:29 Was your first 24 hours or sorry, 24 um yeah, and that was actually that was it comes up first in the credits, I think, because of the the year it started, not the year that you actually do it. So that that was um I my first job is I got Taft Heartlead on a modern day musical version of the Little Red Riding Hood called Red Riding Hood.

15:59 And it was um it was awesome for me. Uh I got um the coordinator is this guy named John Moyle. Um, you know, sometimes when you talk about like mentors or like people that brought you in. Uh John Moyle is um just a uh a legendary stunt man, you know, in the 80s and 90s and and just uh just an amazing man.

16:23 And he would donate his time. There's this guy, uh Bob Yerkes, um, who has since passed away, but he's uh in the back of his yard, he was a circus guy, and in the back of his yard he had like towers and Russian swings and you know, all this thing, and he would open up his backyard for like people to come and train.

16:39 And John Moyo would donate his time like twice a week to go to um Yerkes' back backyard and like train new people coming up. And so from I got introduced to John there, go training, and then he had this opportunity on the show and it's like, hey, I want to bring you on. You don't have your card, so I'm gonna taft Hartley you on the show.

17:00 I was like, oh, that's that's awesome. And I got to double Joey Fatone as the wolf, and um and it was like it was a great, like, all right. And then that same week, I went uh hustling early, early morning. Uh for stunt people to get jobs. Sometimes we just have to go out hustling. Basically, it's like you go out, you find out where a production's being shot, and you go and meet the stunt coordinator.

17:23 Um, that was really prevalent uh when I started in the early 2000s and really prevalent prevalent the years before. This is just how stump people get jobs. Like, you know, there are there are resources, but they're used to not be as accessible. And then so you just had to go and do something for your career, you know?

17:43 It's like go meet someone and it's like you're it's like an impromptu interview, basically. You know, you show up on set, hopefully, you know, the coordinator's not too busy, and then you just pick your time and go, hey, Colin, you know, I just want to come down and say hi. Can I leave my stuff? Great, and then you know, in and out, basically.

18:00 Um What was I talking about?

18:03 No, but I was just gonna say this is great because you know, like for us camera guys, you know, the blueprint is kind of it's different in like in your lane, it's so it's so different.

18:16 I do remember like in the early days, people coming up to me, strangers, like uh trying to be an extra or whatever, and and going to the site of where you're showing up, like we already have our extras. Yeah. Like, what do you mean? Like but people used to back in those days before before cell phones.

18:37 Yeah, you had to make yourself shown by being shown.

18:40 And the you know, pandemic and um and you know, I just think the it's not it's not as easy to go go hustling nowadays, but it it still happens. Like we're uh out and about on a show and there's some people that came by and and it's really important for our business, like as a coordinator, like I, you know, you need to know people.

19:03 You need to know people that can do the things that you need them to do. So like when people kind of show up and you're like, maybe this is the guy I need, you know, or maybe this is the girl that I need. And but it's just like to create that foundation of relationships. I think uh when you guys are talking about your episode with Amanda, uh, which is like a lot about that too.

19:22 It's like just it's you build the relationships with the people that you know you're working with. And and that's kind of a similar thing. It's like I need you you need to build a relationship with a coordinator or an introduction so that when I meet a certain person, this person just, oh, they were just here the other day.

19:38 Let's check their stuff. Oh yeah, they got some stuff, they got the skills, like already bring them in. And it's just about like it's not really who you know, it's who knows you. And so you're always trying to do something to just remind people about you in a non non-aggressive and non-intrusive way it's like we always talk about like sometimes you know we get jobs by just being at the camera house and you just said hi to somebody.

20:00 It's just who's fresh on their mind. Yeah, exactly. It you know, that's it's the the face-to-face is so important. Yeah, no matter, you know, how much time has passed or whatever, it's just saying going up to somebody saying hi and keeping that social, you know, being out there and yeah, putting yourself out there.

20:15 That's so important. So that crosses, you know, all the departments, all the boundaries, everything, you know. You gotta put yourself out there.

20:23 That's what you're good at. I mean, one of the things you're you're good at many things, but one of the things you're good at is uh that's the hustle.

20:29 Yeah, it's the it's the hustle.

20:31 So you know so you got the you got the uh the job, your the that would be your first real Oh that's what I was talking about.

20:38 So I went hustling to Disney Ranch. It was like a 5 30, 5 15 a.m. call and uh found out that that someone's the it was Princess Diary Diaries 2, Princess Diary 2, and Coordinator was gonna be there. Uh that was his call. And then so I end up going to the Disney Ranch at like you know 4:30, 5 in the morning, because I'd love to go come in, say hi and get out.

21:06 Get for breakfast, yeah, I'm just joking. Not in the early days, yeah. No, no, no, no. Now I grab a donut on the way out. In the early days, you know, you're respectful, yeah. Respectful and clean.

21:18 Yeah.

21:19 Um, and uh yeah, and and then so from that hustle, I just he's like, What are you doing, man? Just coming to say hi. And um, and that coordinator was uh Charlie Brewer. And uh he was a coordinator of Princess Diaries too. And um, and so from that early morning hustle, he gave me a call. He's like, I I got a day for you or a couple days.

21:39 And so I ended up working that other day. So I got tafted and and then I started working that job, and uh and then I got this other job within that same week. And I'm like, Yeah, I made it, right? There we go. And then it was another year and eight months into my next SAG job. Wow. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing wrong?

21:59 You know, I'm I'm doing something for my career. I'm hustling. I'm uh I'm I'm training, you know, I'm going to social events, uh, you know, I'm doing everything. What what is this? And it just like, it just takes time. And then after that, my first, the next, my third job was Poseidon. Uh, and then my uh then kind of things started rolling a little bit.

22:21 Then I did uh Flags of Our Fathers in Iceland for a couple, couple weeks working for the legendary Clint Eastwood. Yeah, yeah, when is that like? Uh it's it is uh it was amazing. It was amazing because like you know, I've grown up watching Clint Eastwood, you know, obviously the dirty hairy. Oh, it's you know, and um and he's just it's just amazing, amazing work that that man does.

22:46 Uh so Clint Eastwood film set though is a little is a unique experience. Uh he rarely does more than two takes. And um I think just you know, like uh there's a story, like one of the Flags Our Fathers, one of the characters gets shot and dies, and then another character rolls him over and um and gets his looks at, you know, looks at him, it's like okay, and then finds the dog tags and you know takes the dog tags with him and then moves on.

23:14 And uh it didn't really work the first time because the dog tags weren't in a good spot. So then they kind of tried to place the dog tags and roll them over and kind of same if the actor comes up and doesn't it still didn't quite work. And I remember the DP or the I don't know if it's DP or the camera operator, you know, he's like he's here like this, like shooting down on it, and Clint Eastwood is in his in his fatigues.

23:35 He was weird flags for our fathers, he was wearing fatigues, right?

23:38 Just sitting here like this, you know, just kind of looking at it, and then DP's. Or that's right, the operator's like I think we're gonna need another. And just sits there for a second, he thinks he's like, uh, three takes, uh-huh. All right, they're gonna go nuts when they find out about this on the second unit.

23:58 Okay. So like three take. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, that's awesome. He's just like so low-key, and the whole thing that you you you hear about like he doesn't call action, he has to call cut, uh, because it comes back to doesn't want to spook the horses. So like people are young, three, two, one, go, go, go, action.

24:16 And the horses are like this. He's like, he's like, all right, whenever you're ready. Yeah. You know, it's like, and then I don't remember like the his cut is like, you know, just when he says okay or all right, moving on, or like, but he wouldn't actually say cut. But um, yeah, and then uh we did eight hour days.

24:32 That's what I was about to say. Yeah, that's eight hour days is it's amazing. Uh unheard of. Yeah, unheard of. And um uh there's this one part, like so this is really early on in my career, like four or five jobs in, and uh there's uh cameras down like this, uh shooting up, and then I'll come into frame, like you know, like yelling, hey, get those guns off the beach.

24:54 And then they had a mortar hit in between camera and me, and they hit the mortar, and then I drop out, and so it looks like it just got obliterated, oblivated by the mortar. And and he switched looking at it, and he's like, All right, this is what's happening. He's like, Okay. And then he came up to me and I'm like, Oh, I'm about to be directed, I'm about to be directed.

25:11 And he's like, All right, when you run over there, watch out for those extras. And then he turned away. I'm like, Yep, all right, that's my clinics with direction. Okay, I can do that. I can do that. I can watch out for the yes, sir. Yes, sir, whatever you need, sir.

25:25 Wow, that's awesome.

25:26 Yeah, it was cool. It was and early on, it was really cool.

25:29 I mean, early on, yeah, to be have that on your resume. Directed by traveling, yeah.

25:36 Well, we know the other people's yeah, that is the best way. So I I got a question for you, Colin. Can you tell us what a stunt coordinator does, actually? Oh, yes.

25:46 Where the different yeah, the different different levels in the stunt department. Um I knew you were gonna ask this question, and I was thinking about it, and I I don't know if I'm gonna give you a good answer, but I'll try. Um in summary, I would say the stunt department uh is the department and uh responsible for taking the action from the script, from the page, and turning it into uh a physical thing that you camera guys can capture or that's worth capturing.

26:19 So um so that that's really our job. It's like we in any time that there's a fight, anytime that there's um you know, people falling downstairs, or anytime you know, someone goes through a window, and and then when that's kind of just like within the stunt department, then anytime that there's a camera or sorry, like a car roll or car explosion or or you know, explosions happening, people getting ratched out, then it's like us working with special effects.

26:44 Um but basically it's just like our job is to create the action that you guys film. And um, so as a stunt performer, you you come in, you got your bag of you know, pads and you know, whatever you need tricks and gear and you know, um Gatorade or whatever, I don't know. Uh and uh and then you show up and you're like, okay, uh your job is to perform in front of camera for whatever the action is, whether it's a ballroom brawl or if it's actually a very tightly choreographed fencing scene or something like that.

27:13 So there's that's kind of like the stunt performer. Uh there's also an another level of uh stunt riggers that come in. And so anytime that there's a wire pull, the the stunt rigging team will set up the wires and connect the performers, and then you know, like the explosion happens and then they get yanked uh out of the shot or you know, through a window or through a door, stuff like that.

27:35 So that's kind of a stunt rigging team. Um then you have your key stunt rigger who oversees that. Uh you have your assistant coordinator who is a facilitator between the performers and the coordinator. Um kind of like the assistant coordinator does the job as the coordinator and then also does uh is also kind of like the disseminating information of the coordinator too.

28:00 So I mean you kind of think about like coordinator is kind of like the AD, you know, and then you have your your second, you know, so it's kind of like that a little bit. You know, when the AD is not available, the second can still step up and then do do the same job. So yeah, so then so you have that, and then the top over there is then your stunt coordinator who is uh responsible for the whole department, safety personnel, gear, kind of oversees everything that has to do with creating the action.

28:25 Um I think I think too, um I uh there's so much fun creativity on every level of the stunt business. And at one point, um kind of started looking at us as problem solvers. It's like that's that's all we do. And that's really and it's not just the stunt department, it's like every department comes in.

28:54 I think your episode with Conrad was talking about, he comes in, it's like you never really know what you're gonna do, right? So it's like the fun part about the business for me is that that's all we do. We just solve problems. Like the if you look at the script, it says something, maybe as a lot of description or it's a little description about something that's happening.

29:15 And it's like, that's a problem. How are we gonna solve that? Or it's like, you know, the wires is like we did uh rehearsal, it's we it's working, working great in our rehearsal stage. Now you put it into a set. It's like you have to deal with set walls and lighting and like so many other things. Like, how are we gonna take that from this open space and make it work in the set?

29:32 And uh, and then that's solving a problem, right? And then you go on the day, which I also agree with Conrad. That's one of my least favorite things on the day.

29:41 It's like we haven't asked that question.

29:44 That's coming. It's like, uh, we cut that up, but then you go to um uh that you know, you show up and you had a plan and that plan changed for whatever reason. So, all right, how are we gonna solve this problem? And I I really love that about film work or is what we do because you never know what's gonna be.

30:04 You have the same tools that you had yesterday, and sometimes those tools worked great in this situation, sometimes they don't. So it's like you need to make how do we solve this problem right now, and that's what all departments do. Um being adaptive to everything, being a chameleon when you need to be one.

30:19 And it's fun and it's creative, and and there's pressure in there too. Uh, you know, so it's uh yeah, it's it's really that that's that's my favorite part about the business business.

30:30 So hopefully I got what some people do, and you know it's interesting because being on our side of it, you know, watching you guys work and all that. Um you see the stunt guy, the young one, who's eager, he'll do uh whatever the heck they see. And then the as you get into the higher levels of coordinating and all that, the older guys or ladies that have been basically broken down, you know, they have a permanent limp, or you know, they're you know, because they've done this stunts that the young person.

31:00 But going back to one of the projects we worked on together, Spider-Man 3. Yeah, that was my first real big second unit where I see I, you know, things blowing up, you know, guys getting hurt. And I I I always had this dream of a stunt man or woman, just what a glorified position that is, how fantastic.

31:20 And then you get to set and you see them hooked up to a cable rig where they got yanked out of a room when a thing, a bomb explodes with all of it precision timing, because everything is super dangerous, even at uh where we are standing, and then everything happens, and then you look where that where'd the stunt guy land, and he's practically dead.

31:42 I mean, like in my eyes, the guy looks like he's dead, and then the director comes in and like looks to see everything, what everything's going on. Okay, suit up the next guy, and and the next guy was the guy from last week who got injured, so he couldn't do this. Barely recovered. Now he's getting so I mean the jobs are really like crazy.

32:03 Yeah, I think uh I think it's important that um to kind of remember what our job is. Like that that's our job. I think it uh on this on the other side of that is as a coordinator, and I believe most coordinators feel the same way, it's like you we we don't want to it, we don't we're not trying to hurt people, you know, but what we do take is is risky.

32:31 Like when you're getting hit with a car, uh, you know, that that's risky. And you can you can mitigate that as much as you can. If you can't, you know, maybe put some pads in. And sometimes we actually can do a car hit on a wire. Uh so then it's like as the car hits them, we're lifting them, and then they're not having to flip over and then, you know, head to the ground.

32:49 But but you're still you're still getting hit by a car, you're still getting set on fire, you're still falling down, you're still throwing punches, you know, like even with timing and spacing, you know, we try not to hit each other. Um, but and enough when there's an you know, like such a it you're doing it all the time, at some point you will get hit, you know.

33:09 So you always try to mitigate that as much as you can. Um and and for us getting injured, uh obviously we try not to, because I, you know, I want to go to work the next day and I want the people that are working for me to go work for the next day. And you know, like everyone's got kids and families, and like however our job is expendable, and I mean that in a in a in a good way, in a loving way.

33:34 It's like when you're doubling an actor and you're you're in there because uh say it's it's just too dangerous for the actor to do it. Like I I would like to say, like, if an actor uh can do what we're asking are the stunts, I think it's better to have an actor in there just because it helps tell the story easier.

33:54 You don't have to hide the face, like when you guys are coming around like, oh, you know, like, hey, if I go here, you know, the arm's blocky. If I come, I can see that's the stunt double. So it's like, so like uh if an actor can do it and can do it well and do it safely, like yeah, they they should be doing it.

34:07 Um, but then there's stuff is just it's not in the in the training, you know, it's like some people training their whole lives for this one wire gag, or not one, but this wire gag or this fight beat or something like this. And so it's like there's an expertise level in there that even though actors are amazing in the way they approach things is through um like justification, you know?

34:28 So it's like it even if it's not as technically correct, it still kind of works for the film, which is the important part. But but say it's too dangerous doubling an actor, and then that person ends up getting hurt and uh and can't continue. And that that is our job as in, all right, so then we'll take care of this person as w as best as we can, but we still need to bring someone else in to continue the work.

34:51 And so we are expendable, but in not in a negligent, you know, like fuck this guy, fuck this guy, you know. It in a way like this is this is part of our job.

35:02 And I don't want to get hurt, but have you been on jobs where the stunt creation was just too dangerous and people in the in your department or somewhere said no, we're not doing that, or in your job everything always has to be a yes.

35:17 Um you know, like uh Is there a stunt too dangerous that Yeah. Yeah, there there are ways of setting up stunts, or there's ways of um performing stunts or executing stunts that you know there's better ways and and there's uh not so good ways, and but there's uh as you guys know, there's a bunch of different ways to do the same thing.

35:43 So um I would say as a coordinator, I I will not ask someone to do something that I wouldn't do myself. And I think that's a good gauge because then like uh that's not like I I say that, but I'm like you know, there's a very technical right horse riding thing that has to do with the jump. It's like, well, I'm not gonna do that because I don't have the skills to do that, but I I think it's but I just mean like in those situations as a whole, it's like if I'm not willing to do this thing that's super risky and dangerous, then maybe that's not the way we should do it.

36:17 So I think that helps. Um and uh for the most part, we're just like the fall guy. Thumbs up, go again, you know, thumbs up, we're all good, go again. But yeah, go again. Yeah.

36:29 Why? You got it, you you did, you got it on this thing. Yeah, was it in focus? Well then yeah, we forgot to hit roll. Uh technical, technical, yeah, yeah, mag jam.

36:43unknown Yeah.

36:44 Um I I got a question for you. This is um, is there any actors where you were like, wow, like these guys got in there with us, right next to us? Uh, and you have the utmost respect for those actors that got in there with you guys. And you know, obviously they weren't super skilled like you guys, but they were willing.

37:04 Yeah, uh I mean there's uh I I will say like the if you're an actor, a successful actor, I think one of the funnest things about that job is you get trained on everything, you know? Like everything. Uh say you're uh you get cast as a military commando and you've never done any of that before, you're gonna get trained on that.

37:28 Like flags of our fathers, we got trained on how to use the M1 grand and the actors were there with us. So it's like, um So that I think that's a benefit of it. And and I think uh, you know, as everyone has different skills, some actors are more prone to like lean into like the stunt world. Uh I'd say Tom Holland is one of those people that he's so he comes from uh Jim Live, yeah, like the Royal London Ballet.

37:57 He did he was Billy Elliott and a production of Billy Elliott, which is singing, dancing, acting. Uh I think it's acrobat stuff in there. But like Tom Holland uh has such an amazing work ethic from that. Uh then he comes over to film and he has such great body awareness and he's such a good actor too, right?

38:16 And he can make those small adjustments. He's like, Hey, how come I'm rocking when we're doing this? This wire gag. I'm like, how will, you know, you're just leaning back into the line. So the line's here behind it. And so when we ratchet, you it's throwing shoulder your throwing your shoulder forward, and that's making you rock in the air.

38:32 So then as you set, just bring your shoulder forward, and now the line is free, and you get a smooth ride. So he's one of the ones that's in there. Um, and uh, and he's he's amazing, like I said, work ethic. Uh, I would say on Captain Marvel, Brie Larson, uh surprisingly, actually, we we trained her a lot.

38:53 Like uh Walter Garcia was the fight choreographer in there, and she trained a lot um just because this is a fighter, like her character, Captain Marvel, is just a such a big fighter, and and she really wanted to uh inhabit that role, and she spent a lot of time with us into the into what she would get Nicks and she would get wire burns, and then you know, you just rolling around and you know, you get and and she like uh she was she was fine.

39:20 Like she had a stunt performer's mentality because that's what happens. That's awesome.

39:25 So on days when like the actors aren't performing on set or doing a scene, they're they're with you guys rehearsing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it depends stunt sequence or yeah, yeah. Um back, you know, working on them, like there was so much rehearsal and then coming to the first unit or second unit with the Sony cam or whatever it was back then, deep mini DV tape and showing everybody this is what we did in the you know other stage, this is what it'll look like on the street next week.

40:04 You know, the progression to perfection.

40:07 Well, like uh basically like I w talking about how to uh describe what we do to people outside of the business. Uh we in the stunt department we make proposals, just like uh our department or or set dressing or costumes. It's like, hey, this is what we're thinking. What do you think? And then, you know, thumbs up, change that.

40:27 So so we to so we have our stunt fizz, um, where there's a sequence in the script and we rehearse and figure out what the gags are, what it looks like, and then we will film it in our rehearsal stage. Uh, then we'll edit it and we'll put uh music to it and we'll do fully on it and visual effects to it.

40:47 Um so then when we show the director, like, hey, this is what what do you think of this? Is this facilitating your vision of this action? You know, then then we have something that we can actually show and they see and like, oh, okay, that yeah, I like no don't like that. And then we'll go back and make adjustments and refilm and re-edit it and and then we'll do another proposal, you know.

41:08 Um, and so that's and then you kind of end up spiraling into what you end up filming. Yeah.

41:14 And then I change the scene.

41:16 Yeah. Although one thing, one thing about the um the previous, you know, like, hey, we're doing it on an iPhone, right? Or say we're doing a on a Canon or Sony, right? And the camera guys are like, uh the fuck am I supposed to get my camera down there, you know? Yeah. Like, like, how did you do it? Well, you're down there and there's a wall and it's not a wild wall.

41:36 So it's like that is, I will say that that is a consideration for us now that we're aware of it. You know, it's like we can't be moving, like doing like these big swinging things like when you have, you know.

41:49 Just put it in the computer prompt. I mean have AI do it for you, you know.

41:54 I was gonna ask you just because the other thing is too, is that um most people on the other side of the camera don't understand that and you you tell me if I'm wrong, but most of the stunts happen on the second unit.

42:07 Yes, yeah. The yeah, you sometimes refer to second unit as like the action unit stuff. So that that is that is true. A lot a lot of the stunts, a lot of the sequences will happen on the second unit. Um sometimes you will get actors to come down on to second unit. Um I will say like the whole end of X-Men Apocalypse, the whole uh apocalypse uh like death scene, kill scene, like that was 28 days of second unit.

42:35 Um second unit. Yeah, that's uh and it was 28 days straight. Yeah, that sucks, man. But oh that'd be great. No, that'd be great now. Yeah, but it's crazy.

42:44 Yeah, oh no, yeah. Yeah. Speaking of chaos equals cash, the the mystery within the stunt world for crew, is it true that each time you do like a car crash scene or you fall off a bridge, each take you guys get paid? Because that's always like you had to take a sip of water. Right, no. Well, yeah, because that has always been kind of like the you did you hear the and it's never really been confirmed.

43:09 But is that true? Oh, good.

43:12 Yes. Um it is very subjective. Uh we call them stunt ad uh adjustments or ADJs. It's like how was your ADJ? Yeah, it was good, you know. Um so uh yes, we get paid uh to show up. Um and then within that salary, there's depending on the coordinator, uh, there's whatever expected skills within it. Say uh show up and there's a big brawl scene and uh all right, so 15 people and you guys are just clashing and okay.

43:43 Um with that, say it's a big brawl scene for a couple days. Like I would probably try to budget like $200 per person, like a flat $200 as an adjustment because you're you're getting paid for yes, you're getting paid to show up and then do certain things. But anything kind of beyond that, there's there's the adjustments and because of the danger of it.

44:05 Like if you're if you're showing up and uh you're doing say you're you're holding a tray and you have to trip down one stair, right? And then say you show up and now you're doing a full fire burn uh running through traffic. Like those shouldn't be paid the same, basically. Um and so so to to kind of make it a little bit more uh reasonable, uh, we'll give you know a couple thousand dollar adjustment to to the fire burn that you wouldn't really give to the guy, you know, you know, like throwing a tray down.

44:38 So that's what the adjustment is. It's to, but it's not to get it's not to pay for when people get hurt or not hurt, it's paying for the dame the level of danger for the for the for the potential danger of the gag. And then when you get paid, uh like it's not not all of it's worth the same. And it is like super suggest subjective.

45:00 It's like as a coordinator, I'm like, oh, there's one coordinator's like, I don't pay for squibs. And that's when you have uh like a bullet hit, like it's it's a plate, and an explosive charge and a blood pack. And then so boom, and he's like, I don't pay for squibs. So okay, so that's what I showed up for.

45:15 I know I'm not gonna pay for squibs. Whereas another coordinator would be like, You you just got lit up by like 15 squibs, and that's 15 uh or even like two, three, that's explosive charges against your body. Like, yeah, I'll give you like 500 for it. But it could be for the big stuff, like it's like uh it starts high and then each time you do it, you're like, oh, you get a little less and a little less, a little less.

45:37 Yeah, if that makes sense.

45:39 It kind of yeah. No, as you should. I mean, if somebody's jumping into traffic and getting lit on fire versus somebody just dropping a tray. Yeah. It yeah, that's it's a huge difference. But yes, that that's our that's our ADJ.

45:52 Yeah. What what has been your favorite stunt uh project that you worked on stunt sequence?

46:01 Uh I I mean the there's been some fun stuff.

46:07 And and pretty wide range of stuff.

46:09 Yeah. Uh if you could what what are your top three? Oh, top three? Sure. Oh, sure. Help you out. Um I'd say uh in the movie Eagle Eye, um, there is a sequence when uh Shia's character, Michelle's character, was getting chased by Billy Bob Thornton's character through an airport, and then they run off a tarmac and then they go into a shipping plant.

46:29 And so we we filmed this uh chase scene in a DHL shipping plant out in Pomona. And it was like an adult version of shoots and ladders. And we got to design the scene. So it's like, so he's here, uh Billy Bob's character is here, you guys are here, here's the here's the warehouse. Now let's figure it out.

46:49 And with the coordinator, Greg, Greg Smurge was coordinator. And we're like, all right, so hey, can we turn on that conveyor belt? So you're riding this conveyor belt. And then, oh, there's like a chute there, because this is where all the boxes get sorted. So it's all these conveyor belts and chutes throughout the entire building.

47:03 And so we'd ride on that, it's like, oh, he so he shoots you, and you guys dive on other other uh shoots, so it goes here, now she's on this conveyor belt, and you're on this conveyor belt, so you got to figure out how to get back together and then he's here, he jumps down, now he's on this conveyor belt.

47:16 Like that whole sequence was just so much fun to do uh and to figure out. Um, there was a um uh a sequence on Divergent when we had uh we were filmed in Chicago and we had actors uh in the Ferris wheel on Navy Pier. Like they were climbing up the struts and then they're supposed to be in the Ferris wheel.

47:36 And then the the day we were filming it, the director's like, oh, and then I want them to go up in the wheel. It's like, well, on all the scouts, you never talked about that, but that's one of those times you're like, okay, how are we gonna make this work? So we're figuring out how to get safeties for the actors to climb up the struts so that they can go, here's the hub, here's a ring, second ring, and third ring is where the cars are.

47:54 So it's like, how do we get actors to the first ring there? It's like, well, we got to put up lines. And I'm like, well, I got an idea. So I just like geared myself up with tech and shivs and span sets, and I just free climbed the fierce wheel navy pier to that second ring, and then I, you know, hung our stuff through down where they uh where we tie them in, throw this down all the way down to the ground.

48:17 And so like, and I'm up there and it's at night, you know? So I'm up there free climbing navy pier at night and not getting arrested. That was pretty cool.

48:28 Yeah, that is, yeah. Yeah. And what would be your most dangerous stunt you've ever done?

48:35 Uh I've been pretty fortunate. I haven't had like I haven't done car, uh, a lot of car stunts, uh, just driving and sliding and crashing through things. I think cars, the potential, uh, because there's so much weight behind it, are are some of the most dangerous ones. I also think fire, you never really know.

48:54 It's like if you you your prep and fire is what saves you. So you really ought to just have a nice fire team or a good fire team and you know, like all that. So with the potential is really high of getting burned, or you know, it's like even inhaling like the the fumes. So those those would be kind of uh some of the most dangerous.

49:15 Um but I think the the funnest one and probably the one of the biggest risks for me was on the losers. Um I was doubling Jeffrey Dean Morgan for this one sequence, and we're on a we filmed in Puerto Rico, which is awesome, by the way. Uh so we're on a shipping crane, the ones that take the containers off boats, and we're jumping off of this.

49:37 One of the characters throws the it's like a a nuke pressure switch, uh, and he throws it off, and then the other character jumps after him. And then so we're trying to, you know, chasing the pressure switch down. Um it's 150 feet. Uh it was into a bay that you couldn't go swimming in. Uh so we have these wires that are that are gonna stop.

49:57 Um, and then we have it's called a it's on a cone descender. Uh basically it just, you know, uh um supported. I jump off, I'm on wires, go all the way down, and then it stops before it we hit the water. So and then we so we had a 300-foot crane above the shipping crane, and then that's where we ran our lines to, and then our machines were way down on the ground.

50:17 So it it wasn't uh it was a little, it was scary in my mind until I saw a bag test. It's like, all right, we do a weight bag test, you know, make sure everything's running. It's like, okay, that's working. All right, now now I'm full in. Now something happens, you know, whatever. But I just think at that height, if anything happened to the lines and you know, the thing, or or yeah, the machine or like something.

50:39 So I just think the for me, that was probably the could be the scariest, but once, like I said, once I felt confident in the system, then you know, I've I've already I'm already hooked up. It's not like I'm gonna back out now. It's like I've already made the decision, my harness is on, you know, the I'm connect to the wires, look over the edge.

50:58 Like, nah, nah, nah. I was like, no, I'm I'm already here, so might as well just go.

51:02 And that's a good point you brought up because that's something that people don't really know about outside of the film business. I mean, by the time you get suited up for that stunt, it had been gone through so many levels of practice and rehearsal, like you said, the sandbags, yeah, before you even get a a human in the harness.

51:19 They've they've already done that multiple times. Yeah. It is the checks and balances are important. They are important. I mean, and you have to totally rely on your team. Yeah. Whether it's wire work, firework, car crash, air mortar, yeah, it's incredible. You guys, your safety really depends on how good your your partner is.

51:39 Yeah. You know, and on that one too. So I uh was jumping independently most of the time we were filming, and then the coordinator, Garrett Warren, was we had a a second system and he was gonna follow me down with a camera. Uh which is like was really cool. But we're on two separate systems. I'm in front, he's behind.

51:57 If there's an issue with my system, the dude's gonna stop me. And then, and then I would uh if 10 and if the other dude doesn't stop Garrett, then um, you know, he's hit me as I'm slowing down. So like that just you know, you have confidence in your team. It's like, hey, we've done it, we've done the rehearsals, you know, we know what this looks like.

52:17 Um, we had time to rehearse it uh a day before. It's like we're not just adding this um when we're on the filming day. It's like, no, this is yeah, we've already already done this, but still there's an there's a potential uh issue there, like I said. So yeah, it is relying on your team, as you guys know.

52:35 Yeah.

52:35 I it's it's it is a fascinating uh department. I mean Yeah, because you I mean, not only are the stunts dangerous, but then even on a simple one, danger is always there. Yeah. Accidents happen on set all the time, sadly. I mean, and some are worse than others.

52:54 Yeah.

52:54 Um I mean worse accident you've seen on set. Oh.

53:04 Um I going through a window, I got pretty caught up. Oh. Um I would say say Transformers, Dark of the Moon. Uh, there's a sequence when the buildings are like this and we're inside a uh um a building, you know, a set build, right? Where they they can raise the floor and and we're all tumbling and the people are throwing, like it's the crew's throwing chairs and papers and you know, whatever in an office.

53:32 And one of the as we're tumbling down at the bottom we got mats that we're getting we're getting stopped by. And uh, and one of the chairs, the rolly chair, the back came off, and then so is like a blade. Uh and as it was tumbling, one of the guys gets scalped with man. Yeah, it just came in and just kind of lifted.

53:52 And then we're all at the bottom. He's like, uh, I think, you know, I think uh someone cut my head, you know, and then I'm I'm like, we're all piled, we're all like piles, like in a you know, a log jam, right? So you're trying to clear, and then I'm here like this, and he he gets upset. I think something's in my head, and this his head goes like this.

54:07 I'm like, you should put your hand on that. Call medic, medic. Oh yeah, that was he was okay. He actually gets stitches, then he came back later that day or the next day. But um I it happens. Uh fortunately I haven't been around like really big ones. Good. Oh god. Yeah. I mean, except on like uh Transformers again when I uh I don't know if you remember it, we're a cable snapped and it it went like there were two lanes and a cable snapped and the the cable hit an extra in the other car or in the other lane and yeah, it was a big old issue with it.

54:46 Yeah, that one's that's scary. Here's a question that oh so technology AI Yeah. Do you feel that AI is gonna take away per se stuntman's jobs or it's gonna benefit you guys with pre-vis in certain aspects that technology can age your job. What's your feeling about that?

55:12 I um I feel ultimately, yeah. Uh as the same like you and Amanda were talking about it a little bit, but like um people want to see people. You know, I think the AI technology has some amazing benefits of it, and there's things that people do, like it does look photorealistic, like this guy just did this this AI previous, and it was just he added a helicopter and the crashes and like just really fun stuff.

55:40 So I think it's it's a great uh it there's it affords some really cool, fun, creative ideas, and it's a great tool. But ultimately, I think um people want to see people. And like, you know, in was it Phantom Menace, one of the biggest um criticisms of Phantom Menace was like it just it looks so you know like robotic and it's like there's something about the you know that you don't have a real ship where you feel like there's no weight in it because you don't have so but they were creative was able to create such amazing things like Lord of the Rings, like those big battle scenes like could only be done not AI but visual effects, but AI is basically what is doing visual effects, right?

56:25 So I I think there's gonna be like a in influx, you know, like it's just flood the market and they used so much, and then I think then it comes back to more like all right, now we can work together with this sort of thing.

56:38 Because um you've seen second units in your career get reduced to just what used to be the same amount of time the first unit, two, three months to now maybe two weeks, three weeks. Always starts off, oh, we got a second unit now, six weeks. Okay. And now it cuts down to oh, it's been chopped now only to two weeks.

57:00 Yeah. Visual effects has played a big part in reducing the days, but now we have visual effects and AI that seem to be taking potentially more days away, whether it's crew or you guys, you know. It's um it's changing. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to say where it'll go. Yeah.

57:20 I I I have hope though that um we, you know, like our job is telling stories. And and like as Conrad said, like, well, you know, we're not saving babies, you know, and and we're providing entertainment. And the entertainment is important. And I I think that you uh AI and us working together is gonna give probably the best product and and like the use of visual effects or the use of different kinds of wires for us.

57:49 Like when we get uh you know yanked out of explosion or something like that, it used to be cable. And there are some complications that you had with cable, but now we use a thing called tech 12, which is actually stronger than cable, but there's just some other considerations, like it can get cut, so you just don't go over, you know, edges.

58:07 So it's like that technology really helped us out. And then same with visual effects or same with AI. It's like the you can you physically can't move a person as fast as you want to see it, because then they'll that's too many G's, they'll turn to goo, right? So you physically can't do that. So that's the benefit of visual effects or AI.

58:24 And a lot of the Marvel films too. It's like we don't need the the flight, we just need the start and we need the landing. And then they'll they'll create that the flight arc in visual effects. And that actually helps us because uh it it just makes it easier. The limits the, you know, you don't have to take this person from here, pick them up, fly them 250 feet, and then have them land in some sort of big wreck sort of thing.

58:50 So you don't have to do that whole thing uh because visual effects can or AI can can fix that or can can take care of that. And you know, it it doesn't make any sense to do that anyway, unless you have the camera right next to them, right? So so that's helped us. And so I I just feel like the the we will hopefully people still want to hear stories.

59:10 And with creative minds, we're always wanted we'll continue to tell stories. And I think there's always gonna be a market with that, whether AI overtakes some or doesn't. Like we, you know, we're still people, we're still humans, and we end up working at after the first flood, we end up figuring out how to work with technology, just like going from film to digital.

59:31 Yeah, no, of course.

59:32 Hopefully the emplo employer wants to pay with people. You know, that's my only concern, is that now I'm so sorry, but this has been a big question because I've I've worked, you know, done movies, TV, blah, blah, blah. Talk about the difference in the stunt world between uh working on a movie and a TV show.

59:48 Oh, because that's like night and day difference.

59:52 Yeah, yeah. Um I would say with TV, uh I was the Keystone rigger on a TV show called Stargirl. Uh DC Stargirl thing. And and uh the so my experiences uh from that, and like we I did skeleton crew too, so I have a couple uh like serial experiences. And for me, the difference is when you're on a T when you're on a TV show, it's like you're filming one episode, you're prepping another episode, and you're reading and starting to plan for a third.

1:00:28 So you have basically three hours that you're trying to deal with in the same week, whereas in a movie, like the whole movie is gonna be like two hours, and you have four months to shoot it and two months of prep. So I think you just get a little bit more of the luxury of being able to spend a little bit more time developing things.

1:00:52 Um so I uh the the scramble ends up being the same though, right? It's like even though no matter how much you plan, it's just like all right, when you're doing, oh we gotta go, it's like it's not worth the sun's coming down, it's like it's always the same.

1:01:06 It is the same, but it always seems more rushed on TV. Yeah, and more it always seems the level of danger is heightened, and it seems like I know everybody's professional and done it many times before, but it's like this could be a disaster.

1:01:19 This is like a recipe for because you're filming an hour of content in 10 days, and then and then I love this. So that last day is a crossover episode. We're gonna start like, why? Yeah, why we bring a separate crew to keep why why are we and then you're actually splitting it? So you're you're taking the same crew that would be that's doing the episode, and then on the 10th day, the last day of that episode, you're gonna split it to start another episode.

1:01:43 Like, why don't we just finish this and then start the I don't I don't understand the timing constraints sometimes.

1:01:49 Yeah. So I got a question for you, just because it's big. Please tell us about the Odyssey. Drumroll.

1:01:58 Drum roll right then. You guys saw that?

1:02:01 It's only what you just tell us one story, whatever you feel comfortable for.

1:02:05 Uh I would say, like um the guy that I was working for, my my uh the stunt coordinator, Jim uh George Cottle. I said I don't know why I was gonna say Jim. George Coddle. Uh I've been fortunate enough that he's hired me to assist him or coordinate with him for uh I don't know, seven years now, which is awesome.

1:02:24 Uh he's done a bunch of uh Nolan films. This is my first one. And I say like, it was so difficult. And the clips that you see about Matt talking about how like what's the hardest day? It's like today is the hardest day, is more is harder than any other job I've ever done. And then tomorrow will be the next hardest day of any other job.

1:02:45 So but it in in a really uh challenging, rewarding way. Like yeah, you know, we've been on some shows that just like they're just so difficult. Like they just suck. Like every every time you want to do anything, it's like a wall. It's a wall. That show was so tough and so challenging, but like in this is what we're doing, we're going to the northern northern side of Scotland for uh for a sequence because we need to look around and not see anything.

1:03:14 And then we go and film in Iceland for uh the shade scene, which is like so cool, the black sand beach. And um, so I would say as an experience, it was so difficult and challenging, but so fun and rewarding. And one of my favorite days, uh, I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but um, we were filming in um on an island off of Sicily, and they uh the the the top of the the island is one mountain in it and one like mountain area, and it's a small island, but this top, and that's where it's a bunch of different sets there.

1:03:50 But to get up to that, you needed to hike like 25 feet, then they switch back or 25 minutes, a switchback road to get to it, and then you start your day, right? But so to get all the gear up and down, they had four helicopters traveling or flying gear, and then they had a funicular tram system. Uh one day my boss goes, Hey, tomorrow I need you to go scout, uh, go scout the Siren Rock Island.

1:04:15 I'm like, okay. He's like, So this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna get in a helicopter, you're gonna fly to Lapari, then you're gonna get in a boat, and then you're gonna go out to this island. You know, tell me what you think of the island, go scout it, let us know if we feel like it's gonna work there, and then you'll come back.

1:04:30 And I'm like, what was the first part of that? She said helicopter. So the set there's seven people on the scout. We took two helicopters, so we we started at the where we were on this island, we fly over Pomona, over Sicily, and and we then we land in someone's backyard in La Pari, because there's no helicopter spots there, but it's just an open space.

1:04:50 Then we took a van down to the harbor, got in a boat, a zodiac, and now we're going through the Aeoli Islands, and it's just so beautiful, right? And then we we get to the spot where this uh where this rock where the siren rocks is like this is the one in so it's me and our department and marine and uh some other people as well.

1:05:10 And and then so we just get on the island and we just kind of climb around it and like, yeah, okay, this this could work. And and then it was like 40 feet, uh it was the top of the island. And so I I go back to my high diving days, like I jump off the this 40-foot rock, and then I hit a Cleopatra. So when you're like this in the air, you know?

1:05:29 So so jump off, hit the Cleopatra, and then do uh what we call a caveman. Uh it's like hands or feet, like this. And then and then we got back in the boat and went, swim back to the boat, went back to the harbor, had a nice lunch, and then got in the helicopters and flew back to our filming island, and that was the day.

1:05:46 I'm like, this is an amazing day. That's an adventure. Yeah. And the whole movie was like that. Like thinking about it. Like we did Morocco, Greece, Italy. We were back here, Scotland, Iceland, and then we finished uh up at Universal.

1:05:58 How long were you on that project?

1:06:00 Uh we started prep for us November until August.

1:06:04 Did they have a second unit? No, no.

1:06:06 He does it all. He doesn't all there was the uh visual effects unit um where we're we're it was like more of a splinter unit than a like a true second unit, but they there was some stuff. But no, it's it's all him, man. It's all him. And like just talk camera, you know, I mean you've seen it all with uh the blimp, the blimp and and the um the iMacs.

1:06:28 I gotta tell you, man, uh Hoita, man, he throws that thing around like a big handheld on this huge IMAX. Uh and then his AC is like they got handles too. So he's here like this, and you know, Hoita's like going like this, and they're like they're all moving together, right? It's pretty awesome. But then this um the steady cam operator, James, steady cam for an IMAX camera.

1:06:51 It's like that's crazy. And then he's running through like Troy, you know, and people like like we kind of set up some uh some sequences in Troy, you know, like battle sequences, and then they need they run 450 extras through that, and it's just like that the way Nolan creates uh tension and chaos in a real way, I really think translates well to film and how he does it.

1:07:18 But you know, so you have a steady cam going through this horde of people, and I think he was he may tripped once, you know, but the camera ended up being okay, and like, but I mean only once throughout the whole movie, so it was crazy. Um yeah, that scout day was probably one of my favorite dishes. Yeah, geez, that's amazing.

1:07:37 My only thing on the scout day would be where do you park the camera truck? I didn't hear any place to park the truck. That's uh but that's our problem.

1:07:46 Yeah. So I think uh we're winding down here.

1:07:50 Can I ask you guys a couple questions? Oh, yeah. Throw it on us. I think um uh I think camera technology is some of like the coolest stuff out there. I mean, it is so amazing how compact and uh and where you have to go with it and how important it is. And you guys talk about the different lenses. Like do you uh do you have a favorite uh camera body that you like?

1:08:12 And do you have a favorite set of lenses?

1:08:14 I think if that question was asked five or ten years ago.

1:08:18 Or maybe longer maybe longer. Yeah, but nowadays it's just it's whatever gets thrown at us. Yeah. You know, it's whatever, you know, the production and the DP and the director, whatever they choose, and whatever, you know, it's whatever. Options are more whatever tools right for the job. Yeah. You know, that's or not.

1:08:39 Yeah, or not. Yeah. Exactly.

1:08:41 Yeah, yeah.

1:08:42 And then you do you do focus pulling too, right? Yeah. So that's another thing that is fascinating to me because the monitor is on a delay. So how are you pulling focus accurately when you're when you're looking at something that's already happened? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

1:08:58 Well, some you know, the video systems nowadays, they're pretty the delay is Oh, okay. It's so small. Not like it used to be. Not like it used to be. So now, you know, you're it it all depends too, you know, whether if you're inside of, you know, sometimes when you're inside of a studio, all the Wi-Fi and stuff could affect it.

1:09:18 But most of the time it doesn't. With the way the video systems are set up now, you're you're good. Okay. You know, you're good. So that's a problem of the past. That's a problem of the past now.

1:09:26 But there is a delay. Yeah. You're right. And things change and the viewing audience changes, gets used to like seeing. I mean, when we all started having a buzzed shot in a movie, yeah, you didn't do that. People got fired, you reshot it the next day, or two days later, you rebuilt the set. I mean, that's that's the reality of the situation.

1:09:46 Yeah. But then now you take away rehearsals, you take away all the things, the tools that we used to do to perfect our craft to get it on film or digital. That's all gone out the window now. So now there is, I mean, you never want to have a soft shot, but what can you do if it's the first time you're seeing it, and then they say, Okay, great, moving on.

1:10:04 And you're like, moving on? I what are you talking about?

1:10:07 I mean, I got the Slate in focus. You got dollies moving, actors moving, and you might only get one or two shots at it. Yeah. And it they're, you know, like just listening to you talking about rehearsals, you know, with stunts. That's you know, that's great. I wish sometimes as camera guys, we you know, depending depending, like if it's TV, it's a different story.

1:10:25 But if it's if it's features, you know, they you have a lot more time, you know. So that's very that's so important to us, you know. And sometimes, you know, we just we just gotta go with the flow. Yeah, you know, and that's what makes our jobs tougher.

1:10:37 Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I think too, like uh everyone's job is important, but how things show up on film is really like kind of the overall like guiding light, basically. It's like so like whatever is happening here, nothing really matters unless it shows up on film. So like in our department in our department, it's like, why are you why are you wrecking yourself over there?

1:11:02 Or it's like as a as a coordinator, I'm like, hey, you are off camera. You're doing great. I appreciate your uh your you know enthusiasm, but please, you don't have to do that. I already hired you. Uh you don't have to prove anything to me. You're off camera, save it, kind of thing. And so, but and I think that there's there uh me knowing more about camera or being able to ask you guys questions.

1:11:24 So, hey, what lens are you on? You know, it tells me a frame size. Yeah. You know, and then also a little bit more, you know, like your field of depth. It's like, okay, if you're up here, like how unfocused, how unfocused is the back gonna be? How realistic do we have to make those fights be? So it's like, like, and because it it comes down to what gets captured.

1:11:42 So it's really important for me to to you know talk to the camera guys and like because you guys are you guys are pointing, you're capturing it, and it's it's just like it doesn't matter what we do if you don't if you don't see it.

1:11:53 See it, yeah. And that's great that you, you know, you ask questions. It's like everybody on the crew, obviously we're all a team, yeah. But you know, all our small pieces, whether if it's sound, knowing where to put them, you know, the mic, hey, we're on this lens, or you know, yeah, just everybody from art, but especially you guys, because you know, safety and everything.

1:12:12 I mean I mean that yeah, that is like a another progression in your department, stunt man, stunt coordinator, secondary, secondary director. Is that something that you envision yourself doing? Uh I um Or you want to do?

1:12:25 I I had a hunger to be a stunt man. Uh-huh. And like everything that I when I moved out here, like every day, I need to do something for my career. Whether whether it's just watching a movie or a TV show with a stunt mindset or mail outs or hustling or training. And so uh I don't have a hunger to be a coordinator like I did then.

1:12:47 Like that, like because I enjoy coordinating. I like coordinating, but my I feel like the more experience I get, the better I will be at coordinating. So I don't need to really like pursue it like I did as a stunt person because I'm enjoying this. I I I like key rigging a lot. That's fun organization and and still hands-on like problem solving.

1:13:12 Uh so for your your answering question of second unit, I don't need it to feel good about my career. Um would I would I turn it down? No. But but I don't, but it's not like some of my friends need to be storytellers. Some of my friends need to, they have that that desire. It's like I I want to do this, I want to be a second unit coordinator or a second unit director.

1:13:31 Like I don't it it's not something I need, but I mean your career is already great.

1:13:35 I know you're still going, but over a hundred movies and close to I mean the box office number alone on the movies that you gotta be in the billions, right? Like you've done every major Yeah. I've been fortunate. Yeah, that's pretty damn good.

1:13:50 I wish we had more time because I wish we had more jobs. Yeah. But we're gonna get down to the last two questions. You you might have already know. So I'll I'll go off. What's what's the most favorite word of the day you like to hear?

1:14:06 Uh so you you keep saying word, I have a question about this. Like you ask for a word and people keep giving you phrases. Yeah. Do you are you okay with the phrases or do you want like a word? Phrase, word, whatever, however you feel. Uh my favorite on set then is three, two, one, go.

1:14:24 No, we only laugh. No, because we have uh I'm so sorry. That that is a classic three in the stunt world, that means action. That's how you, you know, some, but then there's other people that have different cadences. That's the cadence to start. When we were, we won't name the TV show we were on. We were on a TV show.

1:14:43 The TV show had a stunt coordinator. Oh the show had like uh if somebody got up out of the chair and tripped, that would be the major stunt that they rehearsed all week. The level of importance was like there was a building was gonna crash and burn. And so we're we're now we're now there, season whatever.

1:15:01 And we're getting ready to do the stunt. We do the the the stunt guy tells everybody what the cadence is gonna be. Three, two, one, go. Okay, and then go, boom. Okay, and then we get now cameras are rolling, and he goes, two, one, go. And everybody's like, like nothing. Two, one, go. What the fuck are you talking about?

1:15:20 You didn't say three, like you know, and the guy he didn't uh it he had the the the person had a mental lapse. Yeah, a little mental lapse of it. I'm trying to be respectful because I don't want to name any names or anything, but it was one of the most funniest things on set. When the guy who's leading the the call fucked up the call.

1:15:41 Yeah. I think like the for me the three, two, one go is just like it means that we have we're in a position that we're actually filming uh what it what we proposed. And it could have been like, hey, you were you you're we had to put this really quick together. It's fight right now, it's like you got two minutes because we're films.

1:15:59 Okay, there's a three-two-one go, you know, like this. So it's like so it's from that to we've been rehearsing this for months and like this is a huge sequence, and now we're finally getting into it. So for me, that three, two, one, go or two, one, go, I'm like, I might just throw that in there.

1:16:12 No, I don't want to screw you up.

1:16:14 Yeah, don't let them screw you up now. No, you know, three. No, just like it, so it it exemplifies like my my my department, basically. Um, but I also think too, like sometimes I think sometimes some people get like over place too much importance on something, you know, like okay, all right guys, stop meeting, you know, you know, like this.

1:16:34 And it's like he's just just tripping. Like, why are you making this a big deal?

1:16:38 Oh no, it was like every anyway. I that's enough about that show. You need to tell me who it was after. Off camera, yeah. Oh, it's very funny. Yeah. I mean, because everything like it wasn't a show about stunts, and we're not doing it's tradition. This is not a stunt.

1:16:52 Like, you know. What about your worst phrase? You don't want to be a little bit more than that. Least famous medic.

1:16:58 Oh, excellent. Yeah. I don't think anybody has to hear that. That might be the best one of the the season so far.

1:17:05 It's good. Yeah. Yeah. We've had some good ones these past couple ones. Yeah, you got to hear the medic.

1:17:12 No, it means someone got hurt, yeah, you know. Um yeah, so uh, and like I said, I uh injuries are part of part of my job, um, our job as stunt performers, but like no one wants to get injured. But the also so it's like we try to do whatever we can to mitigate our our injuries. However, I will say that after doing a fight scene like all day, and uh you're you're getting taking your wardrobe off, you know, and you're peeling off your pads, and you got all these bruises and stuff, and you're like, my job.

1:17:47 Yeah, because there's a lot of days when you're just hanging out, it's like, what are we doing? Uh yeah, so when you're just waiting for something to happen. And then when we finally get to do something and and is like, this is my job. I did my job. See, see these bruises, it's scrape, you know? Yeah.

1:18:02 My wife is like, what'd you do today? And I will start telling, she's like, Nope, just general. Hey, it went well. Okay, good. She doesn't want to know the details. Yeah, I got set on fire today. It was awesome.

1:18:14 I mean, how do you even tell your kids that? Your kids must think you're you are a superhero. You are the superhero dad. Man, what a what an awesome. I'm always wearing a spidey suit. You must see it. Hey, you never know, just in case, right? Just in case. Yeah, that's where we met.

1:18:30 Yeah, Colin, thank you so much. I mean, this is what a what an amazing.

1:18:34 I know you're you're still working, your career's not over with. You got a little many more years to go, as we all do, but man, what an amazing first half of your career. Yeah, I mean, uh over a hundred movies and credits, and yeah, that's you're working. So that's that's excellent. And uh, you know, please come back again and tell more stories.

1:18:55 There's so many more of the stories, you know, we're just kind of doing broad strokes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it'd be fun to have you come back and dive into, you know, on this particular stun, we did this or that, and you know, hear a little bit more what the people want to hear. Yeah. And uh definitely the people don't want to hear this, but we need to say it.

1:19:12 Like and subscribe because that gets us more great guests. And um, you know, anybody who wants to come on, you all can write to us at our email, and uh, we're we're open for business. So comment.

1:19:24 I love I love this podcast too, because of like uh how you guys um like your first episode talking about, hey, this is why we're doing this, and and just your uh approach about just the positivity. Like we're not we're not here to talk shit about people or anything. And and I love that part of just like talking about like this the our our industry is such a family feel to it, like for each department, like how close you guys are with all your previous guests, you know?

1:19:48 And it's just like we've worked together, like yeah, you know, like we're we're still friends, we're friends. Like we you you have to be friends, you have to have relationships in this business, and those come with stories. And so I just want to say thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here, and and we are honored.

1:20:02 I really appreciate what you guys are doing and your approach to this. It's like, hey man, Hollywood can be rough, but uh, there's also some great things about it, and you guys are kind of showing that. So thank you, Colin.

1:20:13 That's our mission statement. Yeah, you you said it best. You said it best, yeah. Yeah, Colin, we'll see you on this stuff. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you, sir.