Episode 817: Dellamorte Dellamore (1994)

0:00 Hey folks, just a little intro before we actually start the episode today. I just wanted to let folks know what's going on with me. This is your host, Mike White. If you are on my socials, you might have seen that I got fired back in August of 2026. Don't worry, I'm okay. I'm doing all right. It's probably the best thing that has happened to me in a long time.

0:28 The job was... not good. And I got fired for the dumbest of all reasons. I liked a post on LinkedIn that was critical of the company I was working for. The company whose stock price had gone from nearly $ 7 all the way down to less than $ 2 and had stopped giving any sort of dividends and is in some sort of receivership type stuff. It's not good there. And I, I liked that post and the CTO saw it and said that I should get fired. And then I was fired.

1:07 So once I found out that and how stupid it was, I was really okay with things. This is also giving me a whole lot more time to work on other things, work more on the podcast, work more on some writing projects. Of course, having a nine to five, uh, is good insofar as having a steady paycheck, but everything else is going pretty good. I don't want to come on the air and ask for people to reach deep in their pockets as if this was some sort of a fundraiser for NPR, but I will say that there has never been a better time to join the Projection Booth Patreon, which is at patreon.com slash projectionbooth. Of course, if you can't afford to give, totally understand. I know how it goes.

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2:26 Hold your ears, folks.

2:28 It's showtime. People pay good money to see this movie.

2:32 When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in the projection booth.

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2:41 Turn it off.

2:43 Turn it off!

3:00 In the tradition of Sam Raimi's Evil Dead and Stuart Gordon's Reanimator, October Films presents Cemetery Man, a film by Michele Suavi.

3:13 Death, death, death comes sweeping down. Filthy death, the leering clown. Death on wings, death by surprise. Veiling evil from worldly eyes. Death that's born as life succumbs, while death and love, two kindred drums, beat the time to judgment day. An actor in a passion play, without beginning, without end, evermore. Amen.

3:42 You claim they come to life within seven days of burial.

3:46 Noggin!

3:47 They came back sooner than we thought!

3:58 He's only eating me.

4:01 Move aside.

4:02 Mind your business.

4:04 This is my business.

4:05 They pay me for it.

4:07 You've come three times already.

4:12 Twice.

4:13 The third one.

4:19 Was faked.

4:22 Get down or I'll shoot.

4:24 You can't.

4:26 I'm the mayor! X.

4:31 Cemetery Man.

4:33 A film about life's grave issues. I give my life.

4:40 Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White. Joining me once again is Ms. Heather Drain.

4:44 Hello, hello.

4:45 Also back in the booth is Mr. Rob Spencer.

4:48 The more they laugh, the further away they seem. You can never be too different, Mike.

4:53 Shocktober 2026 concludes with Michelle... Are we going to say Suave? I think that's what I'm going to say it through this.

5:01 Suave. Rico Suave.

5:02 I've always thought it was Michele Suave.

5:05 Michele? Yeah, okay.

5:07 Michele Suave.

5:08 Michele Suave. Rico Suave. Rico Suave. I mean, I mean. October 2026 wraps up with Michele Suaves' Della Morte Della Morte. Released here, a little blandly a cemetery man, Rupert Everett plays Francesco Della Morte, the caretaker of a cemetery in the small Italian town of Bufalora, where the dead don't always stay buried. The assistant, Nyaki, handles the shovel while Francesco handles the bullets. Then Francesco falls for a widow at a cemetery gate, Anna Fauci, in the first of three different women that she will spend the time in this movie. And he will spend his time mistaking her for the woman that he lost, which should tell you a little bit where his sanity ends up in the finale.

6:05 Martin Scorsese has reportedly called this one of the best Italian films of the 1990s, which is a lot of praise for a movie whose antagonist is, at one point, a talking granite statue of death himself. There is a gorgeous 4K from Severin of this one. Definitely track that down if you want to see this looking its best.

6:25 If you don't want anything ruined, go fuck off. We're going to talk about this movie. That's my new spoiler warning. Fuck you. We're going to spoil this movie. Heather, when was the first time you saw Delamore Delamorte, a.k.a. Cemetery Man, and what did you think?

6:40 Well, the first time this film came upon my periphery was in, I want to say, high school. And Fangoria had done an article about this upcoming film called Delamorte Delamore. And there's even a section about how it was loosely based off the Dillendog comic. And I was, this film sounds amazing. And it took me a few years for, to actually get it. Cause I know we'll go into that.

7:05 It had a, not the greatest stateside run in our country.

7:10 Initially.

7:11 I rented it with my then boyfriend. Loved it. It did not disappoint. I was absolutely enchanting. Even he liked it and his taste. I mean, he was a nice guy, but his taste wasn't great. He loved blade, but. Oh, I love that for both of you. I'm sorry, that's so mean. I love Udo Kierenblad, but I was absolutely just transfixed. I was like, this film is magical. It was so cool to revisit it after being a lot more familiar with Michele Suave's work now in recent years.

7:47 Stage fright forever. So I'm looking forward to kind of, I don't think it's a perfect film, but I think it's got a lot of perfection in it.

7:57 And Rab, how about yourself?

7:58 Yeah, I saw this for the first time, I think about eight years ago. I discovered Suave via the set, which is an even less perfect film than this one in terms of some of its flaws, but I loved it. And I love this even more. This is my favorite Suave film. I'd agree. It's not perfect, but it's a fucking masterpiece of a film. I absolutely love it. I just think it's unique it's this you know what it is it's a crazy weird mashup of Italian and British cinema even though I know it's not British cinema but it feels like a British film because it's got Rupert Everett and everyone's speaking in a British accent because all the dubbing was done with Brits so it's got such a British sense of humour too so yeah I've been

8:46 fascinated by this film and you know what I still don't think I know what it all means but maybe that's why I still love it.

8:54 To your point, it almost feels like a New Zealand sense of humor for whatever reason. Like, I could see Peter Jackson having directed a film like this. Early Peter Jackson. Yeah, I came into this one slightly differently. There was an article in, of all things, Entertainment Weekly talking about the poster for this, the Cemetery Man poster. And somehow I found out that it was playing at the... at the mall, the 14 in, it was at Oakwood Mall, Oakland Mall here in Detroit area, which is the same theater that showed, of all things, Cronenberg's Crash. What a weird mall theater this was. Thank God they were around. Saw Cemetery Man all the way back in 1994, and obviously it has stuck with me all these years later. As I was

9:47 re-watching this film, For this podcast, I was just like, I have no memory of what's going to happen next. But every single time something happens, I remember that it happened. So the only thing I... remembered for sure was Valentino's head in the television. I always think of that every single time I hear the Kramp's TV set when he cuts your head off and puts it in the TV set.

10:15 Gonna use your eyeballs for dials on my TV set. So I'm just like, yeah, yeah, this really works. Yeah, fucking A. I really love this movie. Going back to it, it's so oddly paced. It just doesn't feel like, okay, well, here's where he meets this woman and has this love affair, and then she comes back, and then it becomes this tale of obsession. No, it's just like all these vignettes.

10:42 You really feel written as a book first, or even like it was... I think this was a novel, but I know like Dylan Dogg is very adaptable in the comics and everything. So it just feels like a series of comic books is what this feels like. And that's not a complaint. That is a, this is very well told, though very vignette heavy, let's say that.

11:05 Yeah, yeah, I agree.

11:07 No, there's such a glorious sense of wonder about this film. And I think all of Suave's stuff, this is, there's some films where you can just almost physically feel how much the director loves cinema and loves being able to just take any sort of concept and just fully sort of burrow into it without any sort of constraints. There's so much love in the filmmaking in this film, if that makes any sense. Just even the tracking shots, some of the visual composition. There's some visuals in this that I just think are breathtaking. So gorgeous and willing to play with the fantastic. Like there's such a fantastic film in so many different definitions of the word. And I love that because I feel like that's something, there's that

11:58 sense of wonder that I don't feel like we see enough in cinema. And that's everything from mega budget blockbuster type films to even like quiet indie film. I think sometimes people forget They get too lost in the sauce and they forget, well, it's a visual medium and it's exploratory medium. So here's Suave showing us how it needs to be done.

12:25 I've seen this film quite a few times and it was only in prep for this episode that I really tried to make sense of the narrative. I don't think I ever have before because I think I've just blissed out on the aesthetic.

12:37 Oh, it's a vibe. It for sure is a vibe. Real quick, I fucked up. Apparently, October Films released this in the US in 96, so that's when I saw it, which I guess makes more sense in terms of remembering that Crash was playing at that same theater right around that same time. And that's the good Crash, not the bad Crash.

12:58 Yeah, but if you saw it two years later, it makes it a little bit more poignant, because maybe you weren't into Italian cinema at the time, but we look back now and think, well, this is kind of the last great Italian genre film. And there's a certain bit of sweetness to watching it now where you sort of think, what more? I miss Italian film. I live in Italy.

13:18 I've watched so many Italian films from the 80s and 70s and 60s. And it still makes me sad that there is not that sort of industry there anymore. And Suave kind of is emblematic of that because... He made these four incredible horror films. And yeah, he's gone on to have a long career. I think he's still making stuff, but it's all stuff I'm not really interested in. It's just stuff for Italian TV. And you think for a guy that came up with this, this is like Hitchcock making amazing films in Britain that then brought him to the US to kick off what he did in the US.

13:53 But that didn't happen for Suave. He just went back to TV and that was the end of cinema in Italy. And it's really, really quite sad.

14:01 And it doesn't even, like, yes, it's very much an Italian film. But like I said, it doesn't necessarily always feel like an Italian film. I mentioned New Zealand, it feels like that. It feels a little bit like Alex de la Iglesia, the Spanish filmmaker at times. I wrote an article for the sadly past Cachers de Cinéma, where Skisizek and I were talking about the 50 best cult films of the 90s, I think is what we titled it.

14:30 Or 50 modern day midnight movies, that's what it was. And this was right up there, as was Day of the Beast. And I feel like they're kind of similar in just that they have these very meandering stories to tell, but they are just so well told. And then with, like you said, this having Rupert Everett in it, and all of these voices are dubbed in English, and it doesn't feel like one of these real slapdash dubbing jobs, you know? Maybe just because Rupert Everett I think he dubs himself, and he does a wonderful job, but everybody in this movie feels like they're saying their own lines, even if they're not. And then you get, you know, the most dialogue apart from Rupert Everett's character is gnocchi,

15:14 and all he says is gnaw the entire time. So it's not like I'm looking at his lips going, no, no, he didn't say that. Somebody else did. Yes.

15:23 Well, and the fact that we get... as the voice of death itself, we get Derek, isn't it Derek Jacoby? I, Claudius himself. What? Yes.

15:33 Yeah.

15:34 Cause it's, I remember when I first watched it, I was like, death sounds familiar. And it's, well, oh, it's Derek Jacoby. Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful.

15:43 One of the rats in the secret of NIMH, if memory serves. Yeah.

15:50 No, this film is, it's such a joy.

15:53 I really would love to see, current-day filmmakers of all stripes watch films like this and be like, why aren't you trying? Don't try to A, somebody, you can't do that. Be your own visionary. But look at everything that's being done here and the care to it. We got beautiful practical effects. We've got a breath. This film has such a strange pacing to it. And it's funny because talking about, you know, what exactly is this film about? I don't even...

16:24 I'm not even sure either. And I'm kind of okay with it. I think, Rob, you saying being blissed out on it is the most perfect summation. This film just makes you feel good.

16:35 I think if you.

16:37 And it's dark without being heavy. There's a strange... Even though the ending is, in its own bizarre, surrealist way, kind of fatalistic, it's... There's still just like a light about it.

16:52 There's just so much.

16:54 I feel like Suave himself made a love film to us and to the genre. I think one of the biggest things that kind of breaks my heart about him not being a genre director really anymore is I read an interview with him years ago where I got very much the impression that wasn't by choice. It's just like, yeah, he's got a family. He's got a... Everybody's got bills to pay, and the jobs for making these kind of films were... it's amazing we probably got cemetery man to be honest we're gone and so it's just like okay make a christmas rom-com there's no shame in that but that just is i don't know yeah it'd be like a hitchcock having to make a rob schneider film right it just feels perverse.

17:39 And not in a fun way it sort of feels like the universe caught up to him kind of squashed the creative genius out of him to a certain extent i don't want to say that he's probably still got it but He went through some tough times. I think he had a child who was very, very ill and that's what took him out of filmmaking for a while.

17:58 And I think, I don't know, I don't know the guy, but I sort of sit back here just enjoying his work and think, ah, this is a guy that life came up and bit him on the ass and he just kind of had to get back in his box, which is so tragic because there is a real genius to his work. I think all four of his films, I think, are incredible. I think this is definitely his finest work. which makes it that much more poignant that it's his last one. You feel like he was really hitting his stride. And just who knows what we would have got next if there was a film industry for him to continue working in. But this is a guy that, at his teeth, I think he intended to be an actor at first. And he appears in a lot of

18:40 Lombardo Barvo films. He's in Demons. He pops up in a lot of Italian films. But he worked as an assistant director for the likes of Joe D'Amato and Lombardo Barvo. And also Dario Argento. And you just get a sense that he watched Argento work and was like, right, I'm going to try to come up with some stuff that can compete with this. And that's what he's doing in this film. It's just, it is so exuberant in its ideas.

19:06 Every single scene is doing something really incredible visually. But yeah, and this time around watching it, trying to make sense of the plot, I realized there is an enigma here to the plot, but there is something there. I'm not quite sure what it is. And I've heard, various competing theories as to what the meaning of this all is it feels like there is a meaning it feels like there's something there and i love that we're left with an ambiguity that will never be confirmed one way or the other even if you take into account dylan dog canon and all the link ups to that and what it's supposed to be i still think within a film it lives in its own world and there's so many ways that this can be interpreted.

19:48 I re-watched dylan dog to prepare for this episode I remembered really liking Dylan Dog and trying to get my wife to re-watch it with me the other day it reminds me a lot of Constantine I think that's kind of the Sam Huntington Shia LaBeouf the little helper and there's the Mr. Midnight kind of type character. But then when I watched it again, I was just like, this isn't hitting with me at all. I normally am a very much a Brandon Ralph defender, even though he hasn't made that many good films, but he just is a very pleasant person to watch in interviews. I suppose like I'm not a Superman returns. I at all actually kind of hate it. I wish he had been in a better Superman movie and I kind of, feel that same

20:38 way for Henry Cavill as well. I wish he was in a better Superman movie or movies. But yeah, I just... It didn't hit me. Brandon Routh was doing kind of a higher squeaky voice. It was really kind of annoying after a bit. I could see why I liked it when I saw it the first time, but... Let me just say, I was very happy to revisit this film 30 years later, Delamore, Delamorte, and just be like, oh my God, this is better than I remember. I don't remember some of the touches like, the little coffin that Nyaki has that he keeps all of his stuff in.

21:13 And I'm just like, where the fuck did he get this coffin? Is this a baby's coffin? Was he delivered in this coffin? Was he like Moses among the bulrushes or something? Like, where is this coming from? I forgot that the snow globe at the end shows up at the beginning during the credits. You got all of these great things like Francesco himself having these phone calls and then you find out who he's talking with. I guess it's the city planning office. But then he's like, doesn't seem to recognize him. And it, well, was he actually having these conversations? Cause he has this very rich fantasy life, maybe because of the times where he goes out and massacres people. And I'm just like, what the hell is

21:59 going on here? Like, did he do that? Or did he not do that? And I love the way that this movie plays with reality. Like you said, The whole Argento thing where it's just like you get into something like Suspiria versus even Tenebrae or something where it's a little bit, I don't want to say straightforward, but you get that surrealism so much in Suspiria and the use of the colors and all those kind of things. You get a lot of surrealism in a film like this where, like I said, there's one woman who plays three characters.

22:27 Maybe they're all the same character. Maybe not. Maybe she actually looks that way. Maybe she only looks that way to Delamore. Who knows?

22:35 Yeah, it feels like it's interesting if you compare stuff in the Argento-verse, you've got like Tenebrae is, it feels like it's in a sort of a real world. And it was supposed to be, according to Argento, Tenebrae was set in a world where the Nazis won World War II, and this is Italy in that time period. But it's not very clear. There's no discussion of any of the politics, but that's supposed to be the backdrop. And that's just why it feels a little bit weird. So there's There's surrealism and then there's just things that take place in some sort of parallel world or parallel universe. And something like Suspiria is much more akin, I think, to Delamorte Delamore, where you feel like this is in a strange world

23:18 of magic that is not our world. But I think what's maybe even more interesting about Cemetery Man is it can be a number of different things. It might be that we are witnessing the psychological breakdown of a man. It might be that we are witnessing just totally the inside of a man's head. And it might be that just in some parallel universe where the rules of absurdism apply, because one of the great things that I think this film really understands well is the rules of absurdism means that there is horrible stuff that happens in this film and it laughs at it and you laugh with it.

23:57 If you can't get across that boundary, if you can't cross that borderland into, oh, this is not about morals, this is not a moral world, there is no consequence here, then you're not going to be able to get on board with the story. But it's really interesting when you jettison the idea of morals and the idea of consequence, you're thinking, okay, well, what does this actually mean then?

24:19 Because it could actually be the most moral thing ever. This could be about a guy who who is completely delusional, and it is just explaining how a mass shooting happened, or how a guy went around then killing people in a town. That could be what this is. Actually, like a cinematic work of empathy to go, well, get inside the head of the killer. But it's so deaf, you don't even know that's what it is, because you're just with him. Yeah, it's very, very rich, and I don't think I'm even... I won't be scratching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to trying to understand this film is what I've discovered in the last week or so.

24:54 I'm kind of in awe of it more now than I ever have been before.

24:58 No, no, I love that. And I love the fact, because I don't know, I'm a sucker anyways for genre films where you do have a little bit of that sort of smearing of reality versus an unreality and where it's Well, yeah, fantastic things are happening, but nobody knows quite why. There's no explanation. But isn't that life? How many incredible things, both good and bad, happen in our lives that we can't explain? And that could be something as a miracle of all of a sudden somebody who's been mute for a good chunk of their life, suddenly they can speak. And they're excited and they're eloquent and they're so happy to have that communication. Or it could be like somebody... who seemed perfectly doing fine, all of

25:44 a sudden becomes a mass shooter. And nobody quite knows why. Obviously, this isn't as direly grim like that. But I love the fact that it is this contained, in a way, literally, because of the snow globe, universe where we have a cemetery where it's just, it's not only is it accepted that at night, the dead is going to come back and has to be put down. And that is his job to keep that contained. But that it's a government job.

26:13 He's paid by the doubt. And it's just like, yeah, that's what he does. And it's not viewed. I feel like if that was a horror movie in anybody else's hands, there would be a sense of panic. You would feel this constant panic of, oh, shit, one of these guys got, what if they get loosed? What if this happens? What if this happens or that happens? And instead, it's just like, oh, Francisco.

26:37 It's just sort of treated almost, not jolly, but just like, ha. It's everything. And the fact that he has his friend that is a city planner, total bureaucrat coded. It's just, it's, it's to me like such a nice touch of just like everyday drudgery sold next to just this world of just phantasmagorical, you know, nocturnal experiences. That sounded dirty.

27:05 I didn't mean it dirty.

27:06 Some of it is dirty though.

27:09 Love those nocturnal experiences.

27:11 I think there's, you know, he also worked with Gilliam, didn't he? Was it Suave that worked with Gilliam, or was it the writer?

27:16 I think so. He definitely did say that was one of his three main sources of inspiration. He said Joe D'Amato, Argento, and then Gilliam were the ones that really inspired him.

27:28 I think he worked on Baron Munchausen because the death populate structure in this is apparently an homage to the death that's in Baron Munchausen, the specific reference.

27:39 Which is a very similar death to the meaning of life as well as with the fingers and everything.

27:45 Yeah.

27:45 And I love that it's, he doesn't have a, a scythe. He's got those almost like the weapons that you use that are wooden with a handle. I'm trying to remember what those things are called. I just had to look them up the other day, but like they're like martial art things rather than a scythe. And I was looking at it. I was just like, no, you're right. Those are the, these like arm protector type of things. And like, That kind of weird reference, the reference to Magritte's The Lovers, The Lovers 2, I think it is, when she puts the veil over his head and she's got her widow's veil on and they're having passionate kissing in the ossuary and how turned on she is that they have an ossuary.

28:28 But yeah, the whole idea of just like, this all takes place in this town, Bufalaro, where, yeah, the name across the cemetery is like Resurrection. and yeah the dead come back and it's do people know that the dead are coming back is it just the bureaucrats is it just the mayor is it you know who knows about this stuff is it accepted is it not accepted like and then also and i i don't want to be this guy but like the rules around like these zombies because sometimes they come back they just seem like they're shambling monsters and then the other times it's like he's having a whole conversation with the mayor when the mayor is trying to use a ladder to get out of there.

29:04 He's like, I'm running for re-election. It's like, Mayor, you're dead. I'm going to have to, you know, get down and have to shoot you, you know? And I just, I love that, that he sometimes has conversations. The very first person that comes back from the dead, you hear him say something. I can't remember what it is, but occasionally you'll hear the dead speak, but then you'll have whole conversations with the dead. And it's like, you know, like Miyake's girlfriend. And I love that. You're saying as far as this movie can turn on a dime. It's like Miyake, Ends up meeting, who is it, the mayor's daughter and is just like completely smitten throws up on her and you know that he is very smitten and then next

29:42 thing you know it's cut to here's these motorcyclists and here's these cub scouts or boy scouts what the fuck is going on here this is fucking fantastic.

29:52 I just love that this movie just throws a bus full of Boy Scouts off a cliff for a joke.

29:58 Well, her reaction, that juxtaposition where, okay, you just got puked on. And Valentina is, what, 13?

30:07 14?

30:08 14, I think she's supposed to be. I think the actress was 14, maybe.

30:11 Yeah.

30:12 And she handles being vomited on by a strange man that's a lot older than her. that's kind of like a boy so there's something very boyish and just beautifully stunted about nahi but he throws up on her and then she's oh and then okay i'm gonna go jump on a motorcycle it's.

30:30 Pretty impressive uh self-position i would say at that point from young valentina.

30:35 And her dad's just like oh young people.

30:39 They get vomited on and then they get on a motorbike yeah I'm.

30:43 Just, oh, poor, yeah. Yeah, and she handles it well, though. I don't think I would be that well composed if I got puked.

30:51 Well, she also handles being dead very well, too. That he accidentally, he digs up her grave, tries to pull her out of her glass-fronted coffin, the only one that's getting buried in this glass-fronted coffin. And then accidentally rips her head off. So now she's just this disembodied head that can move and follow him when.

31:11 He's taking her back. I don't know how she's propelling herself through the graveyard.

31:14 It's so good. And then, of course, she flies and attacks her father. She looks like one of these Malaysian monsters where you expect all the guts to be hanging down the way that she flies.

31:24 The Asian thing. Yeah, the disembodied head.

31:26 That's right.

31:26 I need to add this film to my disembodied heads list on the letterbox.

31:30 And then she's just having conversations and having a good time. And she seemed very put out when her dad comes back. No, no, this is my boyfriend now. What is your problem?

31:40 We're getting married, daddy.

31:42 He's got a philosophical outlook on it, doesn't she? He's like, you can do better. And she's like, hmm, I'm no catch at this point. I am a severed head.

31:50 Oh my God.

31:51 The head thing was to be very reminiscent of David Gale and especially more bride of Reanimator than Reanimator where he's got the wings.

32:00 Oh, God, that's amazing.

32:02 Oh, my God.

32:03 Oh, yes.

32:05 R.I.P.

32:05 Screening Matt George. Love him. But yeah, and that's that's the other thing that I find some amazing about this film is it gets away with doing so much that other films couldn't. I think now he's a character and a lot of that the actor. It's beautifully this whole film, I think, is so well cast. And he's so, you really do love Nahi. Like he is sort of like a child and there's a sweetness about him. He's kind of gross and boogery at times, kind of like a toddler is in his diet.

32:36 Spitting food out his mouth and stuff.

32:37 But other than that, he's very adorable.

32:39 I agree. And it's like when people show you, oh, look at my little baby. Isn't that cute? And the kid's totally just spitting up and you're like, that is disgusting. But I'm okay with it when it's Nahi for some reason.

32:49 Yeah.

32:52 And his whole thing with Valentina. I mean, because think about it, guys. If we told this to somebody who's ever seen this film, yeah, there's this grown-ass man who falls in love with a 14-year-old girl, dicks up her body after she's been killed, keeps her head in a TV set, and they're engaged. They would probably be like, okay, I'm calling Chris Hansen right now. It would be so creeped out. But yet it worked. And it's kind of innocent.

33:18 It's not.

33:19 He's got definitely a lot less reanimator David Gale experience.

33:25 I love David Gale. Yes, not as evil as Dr. Carl Hill. In fact, is there any real villains in this film or anyone who's truly evil? I'm not sure there is. And actually, there are scenes of the dead biting people. But I'm trying to think now, this has only just occurred to me, do they ever buy anyone that doesn't sort of seem to be welcoming it? People seem to ask to be eaten when they do get eaten.

33:54 Well, yeah, that one girl, especially, who was in love with the motorcycle guy.

33:57 Yeah, that's straight out of Return of the Living Dead Part 2. It's like the girlfriend that wants to let her boyfriend eat her brains. So it's a bit like that. She's like, I'll let anyone eat me. I'll decide who, you know, if I want to get eaten, I'll let myself be eaten.

34:10 My Bobby, my choice, you know, that's what it leads to.

34:13 Okay.

34:15 I know. Next thing, I want to vote.

34:18 This is going to be the next Blumhouse feature. My body by choice. Zombies. Zombie corporal autonomy.

34:27 It's like even watching the movie again, and I'm like, well, what's going on with these plants? Are they like belladonna plants or something?

34:36 Yeah, they're supposed to be mandrake. Did you get the. I realize it's really weird. I've got the shameless release of this, the Blu-ray. And it doesn't say, if you look through the menus, it doesn't say it's got an audio commentary. But then it said it has this thing called a fact track or something. And I put that on and it just plays the movie. But then in the subtitles, it's showing what I realized after a while is the subtitles of an audio commentary. And if I pick the right audio, it was Michele Suave's and the writer of the film, I can't remember his name, having a conversation over the film. It's a full audio commentary.

35:13 Yeah.

35:13 Which I never knew was, I've had that for ages. I never knew it was on there.

35:17 Yeah.

35:17 And he was saying, I think it was Suave was saying that it is based on mandrake, this plant that's supposed to have magical qualities and is supposed to be resurrected dead people or something like that. So yeah, that's what they've got growing through them is mandrake apparently. But one of the things because there's a lot of little clue what feels like clues in this film lots of them that i'm always trying to interpret for instance stuff like why is everyone calling francesco the engineer.

35:45 I'm not yeah.

35:48 I'm not the engineer but i keep calling him the engineer and i keep wanting to i heard a theory that this is all a sort of coma dream of franco and franco talking to him on the phone is him talking to his subconscious and that Francesco and Yagi are two parts of his own psyche. But that's kind of dislodged by the fact that he goes and sees Franco in the office. So he's not just a voice on the phone.

36:13 That thing where Franco... What was it? Franco kills his wife and child and then somehow gets credited for murdering the third incarnation, a woman, who turns out to be a prostitute, and then her friend Delamore is the one that burns down their house. Just so matter of fact, just, oh, you want money for sex? Okay, well, let me just set up this space heater and I'll just burn this entire place down, which is a little extreme, you know.

36:43 You took your ride, you gotta pay the fare. But then, yeah, it's, oh, she got credited for my murders and now I'm gonna go visit him in the hospital and I'm gonna be so pissed off. And that whole hospital scene is just absolutely bizarre. It feels like it's out of, like, Kiwi's Adventure or something where it's just like, okay, we don't know that this is a hospital. It's basically a room with a bunch of curtains up and then doctors or nurses will come in and he will just nonchalantly just murder them, just shoot them right through the head. And it's like, what the hell is going on right now?

37:17 Aren't you worried about getting picked up for murder? And nobody seems to care. The first time, they're like, where the hell were you last night? And he's like, I don't know. I was sleeping. I was watching TV or whatever the excuse was. And then the second time, when some murders take place, I think it's with these nurses and stuff, whoever it is, the official, I don't think it's the mayor at that point, is just like, oh yeah, no, everything's good, everything's doing great, engineer. And yeah, engineer is a weird title, too. When I think about, I want to say, Killing Mr. Devil, the Esther Krambakova film, that was something else. in the title rather than the devil in the English title, which is very strange. I'm going

37:59 to have to look that one up because, yeah, I was wondering about the engineer thing and that old lady who comes in and is like always visiting the cemetery. And then so strange that she just like back out of, I don't remember what's going on, like if he's in a coma or something, that later on he comes out and he's just like, oh, that poor old lady died.

38:19 And it's like, okay, thanks for not showing us any of that stuff.

38:24 Yeah there's something weird going on there because she says to him doesn't she he says i'm not an engineer and she says are you the guy that runs the cemetery and he's like yeah and she's like well you're the engineer then man i want to interpret that but i've got no idea what it means it seems to mean something but.

38:38 I don't know what you've always been the engineer yeah exactly i was thinking about that a lot yeah i was just going to say i love the husband the yeah the the widow's husband who comes back but every time we see him on his grave that it's like a different picture of him like he's giving reactions through those photos which is wonderful there.

38:59 Is no way mckayla suave had not seen the undertaker and his pals that is straight out of the undertaker and his pals oh my god rob you should see it it's in mid 60s i want to say 64 65 It's like an hour long. It is goofy. It is silly. It is wonderful. And it's got like a little musical montage at the end. And it's just, I love it. There's a whole thing where a girl has a framed picture of her boyfriend and she getting killed and they keep coming back and the photograph is changing to where he's reacting and he's like oh it's so silly he's like oh like it's it's wonderful yes and other things that are wonderful I love the old lady character in that she's so sweet And that to me felt like a foot in reality. We get moments where

39:55 there's like, okay, that's real. And seeing this lovely woman coming to the graveyard and, you know, and also planning out her own, there's, she knows her, her time on earth is shorter than it is longer, but she brings not, you know, Naki sweets and she's just so caring to him and just seeing that she's passed. And yeah, it is kind of, it does feel abrupt, but at the same time, and that, God, doesn't that feel like life?

40:22 And I think it doesn't, you don't have to be on the surf that long to all of a sudden be like, yeah, so-and-so died. And you're like, what? How is that? You know, it doesn't feel real, but yet it is. And I, but I love that. I think it's handled so well. I feel like in a way there's so much sadness in this film. And it's so well-tempered with things like humor and that sense of sort of the fantastic and the horror and, as well but it's like in a way life is kind of the horror but he's but it's like handled in a way that's nihilistic by suave that's what fascinates me this i.

40:58 Feel i feel like it mirrors it feels like it's got a very british sense of humor it's the sort of self-deprecating thing it's a bit like you know this is life whatever there's horrible stuff but we laugh about it i mean there's i've seen this a bit a lot in hollywood dramas that go for any anything that's about you know, the economic climate and how downtrodden everyone feels in the, you know, in the Midwest or wherever they're talking about. And like, I've noticed in these films, no one ever cracks a smile or laughs. And I think, is that really how it is? Because the really kind of downtrodden working class neighborhoods I've spent time in, in my life, everyone's laughing all the time. They're not happy.

41:39 Life's shit, but they're laughing. That's how you get on with life. And there's something about that here that, It's all through the lens of what Francesco sees. So we see it through his life. He's a deeply unhappy person. But it's such a... Not a jolly film, that's the wrong word. But it's kind of a... It's a light film, in a way. If you don't think about all the horrible shit that's happening in front of you. Because of the way its own attitude towards that stuff is kind of like, well, whatever. A bus full of Boy Scouts went over the edge, so we'll make a joke out of it.

42:11 Well, yeah, and he's just like, oh... We've got to really be on our guard because all these kids are going to come back.

42:17 We have to shoot a lot.

42:22 Of kids.

42:23 But I wonder when the old lady dies, it's a bit like maybe it's somewhat pointed that it all happens off camera and off script. In a way, he has a godlike quality in this film. He has power over life and death. He is the one person holding the zombie apocalypse at bay, is the way that he makes sense of the world. Whenever anyone dies, he treats.

42:47 It as a.

42:47 He doesn't take it very seriously, like when he's talking to Adafalki about her husband and making light of it, and she's shocked, and he's like, oh, that's right, I can't talk about that. to people who've just lost someone. But to me, it just doesn't mean anything because they'll be back before too long and I'm going to have to take them out again just as a matter of some utilitarian need. I'm going to have to do this.

43:09 And so when someone dies that has nothing to do with him, it's kind of a, oh, okay, she was actually part of my life and she's gone. And it feels, it's a weird note of reality in this very surreal film.

43:24 Well, like, the whole thing of him being in the snow globe, I forgot there's a moment after the first incarnation of Anufalki dies that suddenly it starts to snow or to rain, and they're all running, and he just looks up and sees those amazing trees that they have, those very pointed, like, you know, finger-type trees that are going on. And then shortly thereafter, he's waiting by her.

43:50 She's got, again, instead of a veil, this time it's like this white... sheet over her but it looks like it's wet you know like you can see through it very clearly no complaints Anna Falke is absolutely stunning in this movie she looks amazing and having her three times I was really okay with that but then like he's there sitting there and then you get like the dream effect the picture goes blurry for a second and that's when she wakes up so it kind of does lend to this whole like is he just fantasizing that the dead come back? Like, is this his thing? Because, yeah, he is so nonchalant. Like, the very first killing, or double killing, I suppose, like, to kill the zombie, the very first one is so just, okay, well, yeah, here's

44:36 this guy coming back. Hold on, Francesco. What's his friend's name again? Hold on, Franco.

44:42 I got to do this.

44:43 And then he's like, what's that noise? And then later on, when the Boy Scouts come back, he's just like, Okay, taking that one there. And yeah, it's just so freaking funny to see how nonchalant he is about this whole thing. Yeah, yeah.

44:56 And when death comes to him, I mean, that's just a phenomenal sequence as well. And it's like you're constantly reeling from one thing to the next in this film. Now he's building a fire. He's obsessed with leaves, dry leaves. He's burning all the leaves and the garbage. And then there's this ongoing joke about the phone book. For some reason, Francesco...

45:16 loves reading the phone book.

45:18 It feels like he's crossing out the names of the people that have died. Almost like he's waiting for that whole phone book to be killed. And it's like he's speeding up the process when he goes out and kills all those people. Yeah.

45:29 But then also he reads every edition. It becomes clear that Nagi's thrown some old editions of the phone book on the fire and he's still upset about that because he's like, they're classics.

45:38 Yes.

45:40 Classics, these books.

45:41 You know, hackers used to collect phone books like the phone freaks with the PH.

45:46 You know? Yeah.

45:48 There was a thing. Yeah.

45:49 Yeah.

45:49 But anyway, the way that sequence then builds into, we've got the sort of ashes rising up and that, you know, when you burn paper and you get these black sheets that rise, become lighter than air and becomes this death. And then when death says to him, it's like, stop killing the dead. The dead are mine. They belong to me.

46:07 If you're worried about the dead coming to life, why don't you just kill the living? And it's like, it's quite sinister actually. Cause you're like, Ooh, is that what this film's about? um and but yet that other foot never really drops it doesn't become this oh wait that's the twist in the middle of the film and actually this is all very serious not really even though he does go out and start doing that he starts mowing people down in the town the film doesn't relinquish this the film is keeping you within this like this is all still don't take it too seriously this is not real but Reality is in there somewhere, and that's what I find really tantalizing about the film. It's there somewhere, I just can't quite figure out.

46:47 Well, even the way when Nyagi meets Valentina the first time, like, it's an amazing tour de force of this entire scene where it's like, you know, them coming out and, like, coming to this table where the mayor and his friends are and Valentina is, and it's all, like, handheld, and then we're going around the table, and again, it's all handheld.

47:09 And then, like, Nyagi starts to notice her, and you get this flash of white, and then he is sitting in, I don't know if he's sitting in a different spot, or if it's just that they're using a longer lens, because it feels like he's sitting right against this building that's behind him, which is physically impossible by the way that they had just shown the space. But it's just, like, such a different shot, and then just, like, kind of head-on for him. And, yeah, the drool's coming out and everything.

47:39 And then her noticing, like, it's almost his fantasy, because it's like, why is this beautiful young girl going to notice this kind of creepy, you know, fat guy who goes nuts away type of character?

47:52 Oh, no, you don't know why that fat guy goes nuts away.

47:57 But it's, and again, like, he's very cute, actually. Like, and he's younger than I think. Like, I always look at him and think he's the older one. But I think him and Rupert Everett, Yagi may even be younger than Rupert Everett in this movie. And Rupert Everett, very handsome guy. He's another one. Like, speaking of Suave, it's like, why wasn't Rupert, was it because Rupert Everett came out as gay at a time where it wasn't safe to come out as gay? Because When I watch his performances, like this, wasn't he in comfort of strangers? He just did an amazing job when he was younger, and he just really grounds this film. If it was a different person in that role, I don't know if I would like this film nearly as much.

48:39 Well, apparently, I was hearing from Suave in the audio commentary that he had a crisis of confidence. The film that came out was pretty much according to his original script. intent for the film in terms of its structure. But when they started getting into it just before shooting, they wrote another version of the script, which turned it into something more like a mystery. He called it a Jarlow.

49:03 I don't know how this could be a Jarlow, but I think he means it's a mystery. And I think it started with some of the murders in town. And there was a mystery that happened in the end of the film. And there was a mystery about who done it kind of thing. And he set it up that way. They'd had Rupert evan on board and he said absolutely not i'm not doing it that way i'm going to do it the way you sold it to me in the first place which is this weird surreal thing because that's the the only way i can see that it works but apparently i didn't realize that it's the right titiano sclavi the writer of the uh I've not read any of this stuff, by the way, but I think he wrote a novel and a graphic novel of this,

49:41 and then he did the Dylan Dog graphic novels and comics.

49:44 That's my understanding as well, because, of course, I could only find the Italian novel version of this. I couldn't find everything that I wanted to find when it came to this, and I couldn't find anything in English, unfortunately.

49:58 Well, apparently, Suave mentions that Francesco Della Morte is supposedly, according to the canon of those stories, the father of Dylan Dogg. I don't know how that works. And I think it's Dylan Dogg that the drawings of him were literally based on Rupert Everett. That's who he was trying to draw. So when they went to make the film, Suave was like, I am only making this film if I can get Rupert Everett in the lead role. So it was kind of an all or nothing deal. They signed him and then found out later that Rupert Everett had no idea about this. He was the guy that the comics were based on. He didn't know any of that.

50:35 And Suave sort of says he probably would have asked for more money if he'd known. And then he goes, oh, I'm joking. And I'm like, no, you're not joking.

50:41 And you're right.

50:42 He probably would have. So I would have. He thought he was lucky to get the role, you know, because it was at a time in his career where I think he was a little less hot or he felt that his career was going off the boil a bit. So he was up for doing something different. But also I think Rupert Everett is just a guy who's up for this sort of thing. And yeah, he's He's really wonderful in this. Really unique kind of actor with a very unique presence. I don't know if it's maybe his queerness comes across in this film too, but I think it really helps it because he's sort of, Delamorte is a guy playing a kind of role in his imagination as a heteronormative kind of guy, but clearly struggling with that on some level. All the stuff about him being

51:25 impotent and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, there's a way of watching this thinking, yeah, Francesco, are you just like, you know, you're barking up the wrong tree. You need to try something different. And then maybe impotence won't be such a problem.

51:41 Yeah, that whole thing is just, that's the funniest part to me. And it's sickly funny where it's, he meets the second incarnation of the Anna Fauci character and who's just called she in the credits. And she's like, oh, I am so afraid of being penetrated. I've heard that you're impotent. Like, this is great. We can really get along and just not have sex, but be friends and lovers without sex or whatever. And he's just like, okay.

52:15 So then he goes to the local doctor and wants to get castrated. Like, that's how in love with this woman that he is. And the doctor, thankfully, is like, listen, I'm not going to castrate you. I'm going to give you this fucking huge shots like cartoonish shot I mean you talked about the reanimator it seems like like Jeffrey Combs would love to have a needle this big you know and that amazing shot of him you know putting this needle into Rupert Everett's balls and then next thing you know like she comes back and it's like oh well I got raped by my boss and I really enjoyed it so he and I are gonna get married and it's like What the hell?

52:59 Oh, yeah, you don't think the film could get any wilder. It's just like, oh, I love sex. No, it's wonderful. He's really, he's a great guy.

53:10 Yeah, that even makes the, you know, making light of the schoolboys all being killed in a bus crash, that makes that seem pretty insignificant. In this day and age, are you thinking, yeah, this film does include a plot development where a female character gets the frigidness raped out of her effectively is what she's saying. It's like, it's okay, but absurdist guys, absurdist.

53:34 Yeah.

53:34 It's the hard sell though in 2026. Let's don't lead with that.

53:38 Well, yeah, but it's, it's interesting. Cause again, it didn't, it's like, it's definitely bonkers, but it didn't seem, it's not offensive. Cause first of all, she, at that point, this iteration of her as the Fauci is, is almost, it's like a copy of a copy. And you notice each version of her feels less significant than that first encounter, than the first one that he fell in love with.

54:03 And so she's not even, she doesn't even feel like a real person at that point. And that's not, and I think that's intentional. It's not a negative of the films. On top of that, it seems so absurd that he's so, he's obsessed in the love with this woman that he doesn't even know. It's just because, yeah, I mean, yeah, Anna Fauci's ridiculous.

54:22 Come on.

54:22 That's a, How does a real person look like that? She's so beautiful.

54:26 Yeah, I don't. I'm assuming she's not actually real.

54:32 You definitely get a good eyeful of those nipples.

54:37 I'm sorry, I wasn't prepared. Mike, to your point, and Rupert Everett, he's great, and he really should have had a bigger career. and especially and i do feel like because society is and this is kind of echoing something i said really recently society a lot of ways is stupid and prejudicial hollywood is even more heinous in a lot of ways especially bm90s and not that i think it's any better now it's not but uh because It's like when you see actors' careers from when they were in a closet and then they come out of the closet, you start seeing a marked dip. Because he went from being the lead of this amazing, masterful film that Martin Scorsese, one of our greatest American auteurs, praised, to being in

55:30 a shitty Madonna film where he's the gay best friend.

55:34 And it's like, what?

55:36 Wasn't he the gay best friend in that awful-looking Julia Roberts movie?

55:40 Yeah, My Best Friend's Wedding. Yeah, I know. My gay best friend's wedding, yeah.

55:44 Yeah, my gay... And that's just... First of all, queer characters deserve better. And Rupert Everett deserves better. It's kind of like when I did a whole thing on Alexis Arquette a while back. And Alexis actually started out being completely out, which is amazing. But out as a gay man. And then when she came out, she's like, I'm transgendered. Allison, you can look at IMDb, and she goes from having characters with full names and sizable parts to... Hooker, Trino, the T word. And it's so depressing because she's, she was wonderful. So yeah, I mean, Rupert Everett, who's still with us. So anybody listening that might want to make a cool movie and has some money, get this guy, use him. He's still out there and give Suave some

56:30 money to make a horror movie too, for the love of.

56:34 God, please. Thank you.

56:37 Well, If you weren't ready for Fat Guy Goes Netsoit, I'm sure you're ready for a reference to Psychomania, where you've got the guy, the motorcycle guy gets buried with his motorcycle and comes roaring out of the grave. And I was just like, this is Psychomania. I fucking love it.

56:57 Yeah, it's definitely, it definitely, it's one of these scenes, Psychomania, that he's got to have.

57:03 My stars and garters. Mike White, you magical man. You have unlocked the memory for me. Because I haven't seen Psychomania since I was a kid. My more recent memory of a man on a motorcycle coming out of the grave is Motorhead's music video for Killed by Death, which is awesome. And I highly encourage everybody to watch it.

57:26 It's a great song, too. Love Motorhead. But holy shit, yeah, that's holy Motorhead got them from Psycho.

57:33 I love it.

57:35 Connected tissue.

57:36 This is why we all love them. Yeah. Suave did say on the audio commentary, there's a lot of references in there. That's part of it. He just wants to do that. Like the bit where they're kissing with the shrouds over their head is a direct reference to that Magritte painting, The Lovers. And I think it's all through there.

57:54 This is what I love about it. It's got a little bit of that almost, directorial Brechtian attitude, which is kind of like, yeah, guys, I'm making a movie. Isn't this cool? You know, there's a lot of that going on as well. And what we were talking about, all the horror, like some of that horrible stuff that happens and making a, not making a joke of rape, but kind of having this, this, this sort of element in it where a character says that. But the thing is, it's, it's just not real guys. It's not real. It's a bit like, you know, When dogs get killed in movies and people get really upset, I'm like, yeah, it's not nice, but it's not real. The dog didn't die. This is all make-believe, guys. This is a movie. And it's weird

58:35 how saying that is not an admission that movies are less important. They're more important because this is what we need. This is why we need art, to be able to explore this stuff that's in our head. And I feel like movies have got to a point where certain things are off-limits, just even... There's no nuance. It's like, does it have a scene in it where a woman says she's pleased that she got raped at some point, that it did her good? Well, then it's cancelled. It's like, no, but it's nuanced.

59:01 It's different.

59:02 It's not the same world. So we can't explore anything. We can't explore anything in our subconsciousness. We can't explore anything in our imagination because that's what films are.

59:11 They're not real.

59:12 This fixation on– it's so weird that there's such a fixation on realism in Hollywood at the moment when all they fucking make is superhero films. It's like, yeah, but they've got to be realistic. They're not fucking realistic.

59:24 God, don't even– it's– yeah, when you're talking about the zombie lore– And how many times have we all heard, yeah, it's like, yeah, we're applying science to zombies. Cool. Yeah, that's a wonderful use of our time. No, Rob, beautifully put. And I agree. I mean, there's the whole line that art is the mirror. And, you know, when people, if somebody gets offended at something, whether it's in a book, in a video game, a song, a film, are you more offended by that than you are by something happening in real life?

59:58 I don't think that's a fanciful notion. I think there is ample evidence, historical and prehistorical evidence out there that we as a species make sense of the world through narrative. That's what we do. That's how we understand the world. We need a story to base it on. Journalism is based on it. People write stories. You need a story.

1:00:20 all the disinformation, it's wrapped up in stories. They weaponize stories. So art is, it really, it's not a fanciful notion. Art really is very important. And it's, to bring it back, I guess, to Della Morte, Della Morere, it is just this precious example, very fearless art that didn't feel like it had to worry about that stuff anyway. I don't think it would have crossed anyone's minds, least of all in Italy, of all places. A long history of really not caring about any sort of censure for the sort of stories that they were telling as what i love about italian cinema actually is it was kind of tapped into the subconscious it was tapped into our fears they were like dream italian films are like people talk about

1:01:02 nightmare logic and dream logic in italian films especially that's what they had for some reason i don't know why we can you point to the italians and all their artistic history they've always been a culture of incredible artists maybe that's it maybe they're just sort of there is less sense of embarrassment or self-censorship about let's get out there what we're all thinking what is it that we're fixated on what do we even warts and all and let's get it out there and when it's out there then we can kind of make sense of it but hiding it under these you know all our entertainment now is like yeah there's humor people make quips when they're jumping about the place and firing laser beams and that's

1:01:43 you know that is not real that there's nothing really in that whereas i think something like Delamorte Delamore, which is ironically for such an unreal sort of story, is way more real than most films you would see coming out of America these days or anywhere. But yeah, there is a real power to it. And I think there's a real power to stretching the absurdism to the point where you just like have to stand back and go, whoa, what is going on in this movie now? And this movie does.

1:02:13 That a lot.

1:02:14 And I think it's really, really a valuable thing.

1:02:16 This movie wrong foots me a lot. We were kind of talking about this before as far as what happens if one of the zombies escapes. I thought when the guy bursts out of the grave on the motorcycle, I'm like, oh, well, Delamore's fucked now. Here comes this guy. He's going to bust out of the graveyard. But no, he's more interested in eating his girlfriend. And then even with the mayor, I'm like, oh, the mayor's going to escape. No, no, that's okay. And even when it comes to coming out of the grave and the way that nyagis like goes to kiss her and i'm like oh buddy you better be careful she's gonna bite your freaking lips off like she's this you know zombie head but instead no they're the best of friends if not lovers after that and

1:03:01 then even things like oh there was one more where i was just oh shit and now i'm blanking oh when i'm worried kills her when he shoots Francesca or Valentina when she is trying to bite her dad and shoots her through the head and shoots the dad and I don't think he killed no he doesn't shoot him in the head though he should have he shot her in the head and Yagi gets very upset obviously and And I'm just like, well, Nagi, Nagi now is going to be his enemy. Like, this is where the movie is going to turn. And Nagi is going to be like, I can't forgive you for murdering this girl. She was the only pleasure in my life, even though she lived into my television set. And he only loved television. He was so upset when Delamore shot his television. Hello, Elvis.

1:03:48 But it's like, all right. Like, is that the way the movie is going to go? No, no, no, it doesn't.

1:03:54 It.

1:03:55 Leads me down these different ways, and I just keep thinking that the worst is going to happen, because I think always that the worst is going to happen. Like, oh, the zombies are going to get out, and now it's going to become a whole town, and we're going to have this. But instead, everything is so just centralized in that graveyard. Like, it's amazing that we even leave the graveyard at all just to learn more about the town. Yeah.

1:04:17 I think that's a hallmark of absurdism, actually. It's not the absurd stuff that happens. because the absurd stuff happens it's reactions to it and consequences and so this is an example all this terrible stuff that's happening you don't really feel the consequences i mean all it would have taken is a scene like in jaws when the mother of one of the dead kids turns up and slaps someone but there is nothing like that that is not going to happen in this film and and that's the That's how you've got to decode how to make sense of it. It's like, yeah, this is not... You don't have to worry about that. This is not happening on that level. There's no emotional devastation out of this stuff other than the almost solipsistic consequences within Francesco's own mind.

1:05:03 That's what this is all about. Which then feeds you back into that, okay, there's some sort of feedback loop happening here. This can't be real. This has to be in his own mind to a certain extent.

1:05:12 The.

1:05:13 The device of Anna Falke, as she keeps returning, I think this is the first time I've ever watched this and thought, oh, she's not the same person. It's like the polar opposite of Buñuel' s That Obscure Object of Desire, where you've got one female role played by two actresses. This is one actress playing a whole range of roles, and it's just what he sees.

1:05:36 It's just that.

1:05:38 They are all targets for his kind of futile, amorous intent. He feels like he needs a partner. He feels like he needs a woman. He feels like he needs a sexual partner. Anna Falke is very well cast as the sort of ideal of what he's looking for. And yeah, every time someone turns up that seems like an opportunity that he thinks fits what he wants, that's what she looks like. So that's a real clue that this is a very, very Francesco subjective point of view that we're seeing all the way through.

1:06:11 He even falls asleep before he goes on that kill-crazy rampage in town. And I love that it's the, you know, you're talking about the phone book, and I love that the pages of the phone book start flipping. And then when you cut to him, he's in his little VW Bug, and there's a page of the phone book on the windshield wipers. It's like, that's so nice. And it's like, okay, is this a fantasy? Because he just goes in and murders all of these people. You see him putting the notches and the dum-dum bullets and stuff, and then next thing you know, he's out there just murdering people with abandon.

1:06:48 And it's almost like he had such good business as a and who runs the cemetery, is the engineer, that he had all of those little coffins for all of those Boy Scouts all having their same funeral at the same time. Kind of reminded me of, you know, like, I don't know, like one of our mass shootings that we have over here, but I don't think they all have their funerals at the same time at the same graveyard. Like, there's only one graveyard in this town, so let's all bury them all at the same time. It's pretty great.

1:07:18 Yeah.

1:07:19 Exactly. What you're just saying... I don't want to get you having any more emails complaining about the politics of the show, mine, because I know how much that upsets you.

1:07:28 Emailing these days, so it's okay.

1:07:32 They've stopped listening, hopefully. But yeah, it's like we're talking about, ooh, it's got a scene with kids dying. It's like, come on, this is from a country where you've got mass shootings happening all the time and everyone wants to keep their guns.

1:07:45 Fuck off. Yeah, being more offended by a podcast talking about politics than school shootings. or any kind of shooting is more revealing of your personal state of mind, people. Please work on yourselves and be kind to yourselves. Also, I love the turn of phrase, wrong footing. Mike, that's such a great turn of phrase talking about. And again, I feel like it's like everything just feels like suave.

1:08:09 And I love it.

1:08:10 These are my favorite directors and films that do this, where it just feels like every move is so smart and loving in a way. Because yeah, there's nothing pat. In this story, there's nothing expected. It is completely, everything is sort of unexpected in a way that feels, you know, bizarrely organic.

1:08:27 It shouldn't.

1:08:28 None of this should feel organic, but it does. And I feel like it's so respectful in a way to the audience, the way Suave's made this because of that, because he's not giving us easy answers. But I also don't think he's intentionally being... unfairly obtuse I mean in some ways it's almost like a fairy tale to me like I the first time I watched it to me it just felt like well yeah this is dreamy and like dreams you know how often do any of our dreams make linear sense very rarely even when you think they are and you wake up and you start piecing together and you're like, wait, where did that come from?

1:09:05 But I love that because to me, it's if you do say everything by rote, I mean, rote behavior and actions are for day jobs and for paying bills. Rote action should not be for art. It should not be for expression. or anything tied to, I think, emotion or vision.

1:09:22 This movie is so smart, too, when it comes to the storytelling.

1:09:26 No, sorry, I think you just cut out there for me. Yeah, I was going to say, the way it's sort of physically handcrafted, too, there's all these clues in the frame all the way through. This is, you know, this is to be taken a certain way. Like, the moon is never a real moon. I mean, this is a film where...

1:09:44 there's a sex scene where there's Will of the Wisps flying around and he tells the Will of the Wisps to go away because the lady only wants stars tonight. And they fly off into a star riddled sky, which looks very unreal. Those are not real stars, you know, and that's, that's the point. This, this is to be read a certain way. And I think if we just naturally get on board with it, it's, it's so deftly signaled to us that we should take it that way.

1:10:10 And I, from all the discussion that we've been having about things that could have been potentially offensive i don't think i've met anyone who's offended by this film because maybe most of them wouldn't the people who would get offended by it would never have heard of it but some of those the normies still leak through and see these films you know you see it on letterbox people who get very upset about you know how to or something like that and now it doesn't make any sense and how they've got to set everyone straight about this is really a bad film makes no sense But this one doesn't seem to offend people because, yeah, for all the stuff it's doing, it's just so clearly unreal.

1:10:45 Yeah.

1:10:46 And I love that. I love the care and attention that's gone into the handcraft of this one.

1:10:51 Isn't there a flying head that bites somebody in Housu as well?

1:10:55 Yes. She bites a girl in the ass.

1:10:57 On the butt.

1:10:57 Yeah.

1:10:58 Okay.

1:10:59 I love it.

1:11:00 This movie is so smart when it comes to even the pacing of it. Like, think about the this other woman that anna falchi is playing like we see her as the widow she comes in at a very particular time in the story she comes back as you know to to him she comes back from the dead she comes in as the second character she comes in as the third character and each one of these is like closer and closer together so it's like yeah we we go for a while before she shows up the first time she's there for a pretty extended amount of time as the widow She's there for a little bit as the woman who is in fear of penetration. She's there just a tiny bit as the prostitute. It's like they're just amping up the speed, the pacing of this just

1:11:46 gets faster as we go along. The massacres come, like you see him cruising and looking at prostitutes at one point and he's just like, oh yeah, she was way too willing to jump in my car and he takes off and stuff. I like that we are constantly you know like aware of how this story needs to be amped up and when it needs to be amped up and so by the end it feels like we're moving at this furious pace like especially it's almost like this Blade Runner ending where it's like Yagi, we gotta get out of here. Let's hurry up and go. Don't bring your coffin. But next thing you know, he's got the little coffin strapped to the top of the car. And the way that they... That reminds me a lot of the original ending of Blade Runner where they leave the

1:12:33 city and it's beautiful out and you've got all those shots from... The shining and stuff, some of the helicopter shots. Because it's like they're driving down the road, and then he goes through this long-ass tunnel, and you're just like, what's going to happen? You know, is this going to be like... You know, it ends up being more like the 13th floor or something, where they are going, and then they have to slam on the brakes. Poor Nyagi gets it in the head. They have to slam on the brakes, and then they see that there is nothing out there. Like, the road ends. And so it's like that whole thing of saying, like, takes place in the cemetery? Well, like, yeah, there's nothing outside of that. And then when they do

1:13:11 try to go outside of that, try to go outside of the town, there's nothing there. It's like that shot in Evil Dead 2 where the bridge has been taken out, you know, and it's like they're at the edge of the world looking down when that coffin, the little coffin falls down. It's just like, OK, what is this? Like they're in the void. It kind of reminded me of like the beyond or something.

1:13:31 Yeah, it's a bit like Dark City that we were talking about earlier this year, Mike. It's like, yeah, the outside world is a sham. It doesn't actually exist. And he says it a couple of times, I think. He says, I knew the real world didn't exist. It's interesting. Just going back to what you were saying about she, and I never thought about that, about how the appearance and reappearance and kind of re-manifestation accelerates. It's very interesting. And I wonder whether... It feels like she's some sort of engine driving him towards, if the point of this story is for him to come out of whatever state he's in, whatever it is. Is he in a coma? Is he just in some sort of solipsistic state? Is it something else?

1:14:12 Who knows? To come to some sort of revelation at the end, which never quite comes for us, although it's hinted at. But I wonder if she's kind of the engine for that. She's always guiding him out of that. She's the path that he's following, that she keeps turning up. Because every time as the rapidity with which she appears and then disappears increases, the consequences of her existence or non-existence seems to diminish at the same rate. So that if she then dies, when he then lights a fire, when he discovers that she's a hooker, it just doesn't matter.

1:14:48 I really barely noticed the first couple of times I saw this, because at that point, you're like this is not we're driving to something else now and then when we get to the point at the end where they drive the car the road literally ends it's a road to nowhere and they get to the borderland and that's the point at which nyagi then turns to him and says i think i'd like to go home now and it's the first line he has that he's not now and that's all he's said up to that point and francesco then goes yeah it's like they've traded places or something now It's hinting something. I'm not sure what. And I think, to be honest, my assumption at this point is the filmmakers and the writers and maybe Sclavi himself

1:15:31 were like, I'm not going to spell it out to you that much. You make the rest up yourself. It can be whatever you want. And maybe that's, if it had been explained, if I was just given that extra clue for me to go, the spinning top fell over, it would have ruined it. I'm glad it doesn't do that.

1:15:48 Absolutely. What it feels like to me, my theory, because I'm sure we all have our own theories here. My theory is that they basically, they just switch places and then this whole thing starts again. And then in a month or whatever, they're going to be back at the same cliff and they're going to switch again. And it's going to replay the whole story. That, for whatever reason, is always what I had in my head all the way back in 96 when I saw this was just like, okay, yeah, now...

1:16:18 Nyagi is Rupert Everett, and then Francesco is the other guy. And that's how we're going to play this. And then we're going to run through this whole thing again.

1:16:28 Yeah, very Lynchian, very Lost Highway.

1:16:31 Oh, yeah. How about you, Heather? What are your thoughts on the end of this?

1:16:34 Oh, God. You know, by the time you get to the ending, everything has just spiraled and re-spiraled, sort of like an old fossil thing. I know what it's called, but I can't pronounce it. I'm not going to try to pronounce it because I might unleash some sort of eldritch god accidentally if I try to pronounce the Latin name of fossil.

1:16:59 Yes.

1:17:01 Written here, etched in blood and written on the human flesh.

1:17:07 But it's like by the time I got to, at that point, I was almost more concerned about Nagi's safety. with that head wound. I'm like, movie, do not take him. Do not take this sweet soul. And he ends up not being dead. Spoiler. As far as thoughts, I don't know. This is a film that I personally... I try... I haven't really tried to put too much deep thought into it because I kind of like having a mist around it.

1:17:37 There's something... There's some films, and even songs. Like, for example... Some Velvet Morning by Lee Hazelwood. I've literally lost sleep. There was one night I woke up and just kept thinking about the lyrics and trying to be, what the fuck is this song about? With Dillamore to Dillamore, I think it's just the dreaminess around it. I love the fact that there's enough little shades and tosses where you can do a lot of theory if you want, if you feel pulled to do it. But I don't feel like the film is pushing you to do it. I don't feel like the film might not even really want you.

1:18:12 to do it either i could see it going i honestly even steven on this i feel like i half of me could easily believe oh yes there are there is a philosophy to this there is some metaphorical storytelling going on but i could also just essentially like you know what this is surrealism this is dream like storytelling and and such is life you know we're all seeking We're all seeking meaning and going beyond the parameters of our own existence. Maybe the sadness is sometimes we never quite are going to ever reach some of those goals.

1:18:48 I think it's honest in a way.

1:18:50 Yeah, it touches on this idea of unknowability, doesn't it?

1:18:53 I agree.

1:18:53 I think people are largely unknowable. Even people you're very close to, to a certain extent, are unknowable. And I wonder if, reflecting on this, as I age, I kind of think back to when I was younger and it's occurred to me that maybe what I missed from when I was younger is when I didn't feel like I'd worked a lot of shit out. Everything felt bigger because you didn't know. And it could be anything. It was the sense of, infinite possibility which that contracts as you get older a bit which actually is probably wrong you know and probably something we should try to hold on to is the fact that we don't know shit actually we just think we do as we get older but there's a number of interpretations to this film that you

1:19:32 could apply but i think when you actually go through the mental exercise of applying them all of them diminish film a bit you know one of them for instance is the american psycho interpretation which is that Oh yeah, he's just this murderer and he can't get anyone to believe that he's doing the murder. And there's a lot of clues to that in the film. He's very frustrated with the cops. The cops suspect him of the murder.

1:19:58 You think they're going to catch him and they're like, no, but we know it couldn't be you because it's this other guy and it couldn't be you. And he's like literally screaming, it was me. And no one's listening to him. So you could definitely take that track and say, yeah, that's what it's all about. Whichever one you come up with or whichever one I've come up with when I apply, I think I'd rather not know. And I don't think any of them really fit. Nothing fits snugly. Nothing gives you that sense of putting the final jigsaw puzzle in place and a sense of satisfaction. It's just like, yeah, I could wedge that one in there, that shape, but I don't know if that's right. And I think I'll just leave it out.

1:20:31 And then that they end with the snow globe, which I said you saw at the beginning. I kind of really didn't realize that you see that snow globe at the beginning. And so I'm just like, okay, is this in the same town where St. Allegius is at? And, like, is Howie Mandel going to come?

1:20:48 No. Oh, my God.

1:20:50 Wow.

1:20:51 St.

1:20:52 Elsewhere.

1:20:53 Nice. Oh, yeah.

1:20:55 I've heard the St. Elsewhere comparison to this film before, too.

1:20:58 Yeah. We are getting all the random pop culture references in this episode. I love it. I can't wait for somebody to mention Larry Storch or... Or Dame Edna Everest. Are you howling three fans out there?

1:21:16 The marsupials, yeah. It's just remarkable to me that I could, sorry to make this all about me, but that I could see this movie 30 years after the first time that I saw it and remember it so well. Like I said, not remembering what was about to come up, other than at one point I was just like, yeah, there's a girl who's going to be in a television set.

1:21:38 And as soon as she showed up, I was just like, okay, it's her. Like, I really remembered the beats of this. I didn't remember like all of the connective tissue, but I'm just like, this is 30 years ago. And this movie made such an impression. And yeah, we've talked on this show so many times as far as like, you see a movie when you're young. I was 24 at the time when I saw this. You see a movie when you're young, you see it again when you're older.

1:21:59 And of course the movie hasn't changed. You've changed. But you're like, okay, well now I see this differently, I see that differently. I don't think I put nearly as much thought into this 30 years ago as I did this week re-watching this. But I'm just so glad that it still satisfied so much. And if anything, it satisfied me more because I'm like, wow, there's a lot more to this than I remembered going on. I remembered that it was weird. I remembered that there were the whole switching places at the end and all that. But I didn't necessarily feel like oh, a 24-year-old Mike would really like this, but a 54-year-old Mike is just like, eh, whatever.

1:22:38 I genuinely love this movie even more now than I did all those years ago.

1:22:44 Yeah, it's just so potent. I mean, I don't think a film that's made like this with these sort of visuals and this sort of playing with all the themes... will ever age badly. These are the ones we go back to after years and you think, yeah, you recommend it to people, oh, we've got to watch this, it's fantastic.

1:23:03 And then if you actually have to sit down with the person, you're kind of like, oh, I hope they don't hate it. And they may or may not hate it, but at least I think actually what we think is, I hope I don't hate it now. I hope I'm not embarrassed that I recommended this and now I'm watching it and I think it's not that great. This one will always hold up because it's just... It's so rich.

1:23:22 I mean, it's just a joy. This is cinema, man. This is what it's all about.

1:23:28 I haven't seen the rest of Suave's films. I've wanted to for the longest time. I mean, I see that image of the owl head killer. And I'm just like, my God, I have to see this. Like, what is this stage fright movie? What is it? The sect? Did he make the church as well?

1:23:52 I can't remember why it didn't end up being Demons 3 at the time, but it was originally conceived as a sequel to Demons. They're all... I love all of them. I need to re-watch The Church. I haven't seen that one for a long time. But like I said, The Sect was the first one of his that I saw, and it just blew me away. Again, mainly because of the visuals. It's quite a... From memory, it's quite a ramshackle film from a plot point of view. I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense.

1:24:19 It makes.

1:24:20 It feels all three of them feel less mature than Delamorte, Delamore, I would say. This is almost a bit of a departure because it's so sophisticated. I mean, the script, the dialogue, we haven't really talked about much in this film, but some of the turns of phrase, you know, the bit up front where he introduces Nyaghi and says on his identification papers, it says distinctive visual marks all.

1:24:43 I mean, that's a great gag. Yeah.

1:24:46 Some really great stuff. You don't get a lot of that in his other films, maybe because a lot of that comes from the source material here. But visually, you get a lot of this stuff. I think he's more in control of it in Delamorte, Delamore. But the sect has some really fantastic visual moments. And stage fright, because it is kind of effectively like a slasher movie, but with a twist and with an extra dash of imagination and this visual flair. And it's fantastic. It's like if you're talking about you want to watch great slasher films, I think Stage Fright has to be in the conversation as, you know, one of the best.

1:25:21 I'm a huge, huge fan of Stage Fright. It's one of my favorite films, period. I love it. I cannot imagine that being a debut, but it is. It was his debut and he just exploded. There's so much visual dynamics. The soundtrack, it has a phenomenal soundtrack on top of that. A fire cast. Actually, it's funny because There is one actor in Stage Fright that makes me think of Rupert Everett.

1:25:50 And I think David Brandon. And I love David Brandon. He's a great British actor who also played the Angel in Derek Jarman's Jubilee. Yeah, and he's in Caligula 2. I mean, this fan has had a career. Yeah, not to be confused with Caligula 2, Electric Boogaloo.

1:26:09 Yeah.

1:26:10 Where shopper ranks.

1:26:12 Which happens a lot. That's where he appoints the horse to be his breakdancing partner or his DJ. That's right. He's got the hoofs on the record and he's scratching.

1:26:24 Well, actually, the horse does the worm while they're playing that song. Like, ain't no stopping now.

1:26:30 Da-da-da-da-da.

1:26:31 Yeah.

1:26:32 Da-da-da-da-da-da. But David Brandon's great. And I do feel like he and Rupert Everett would make they're kind of physically similar and they would it'd be interesting so i put those two in a movie now think about.

1:26:46 It yeah buddy cop film yeah.

1:26:49 From oh god.

1:26:52 Running scared too yeah david brandon there you go well the same.

1:26:57 Low anyway yeah Oh, my God.

1:27:00 No, I don't want that.

1:27:01 I do not want that Michael McDonald speaking of film songs. No.

1:27:06 Well, we haven't even talked about the score for this movie. It's great. And I love that little theme that they're playing with through this whole thing that just keeps coming back. And it's interesting because it is very orchestral and it feels, you know, kind of grand at times. But then there's that earthy quality to this movie, like talking about the whole use of the mandrakes and stuff. Like when... These zombies come out of the grave. They don't look like other zombies because they always have things growing out of them.

1:27:35 And I love the. The motorcycle zombie, when he comes back, how he's got, like, a blinker in his eye.

1:27:42 So great.

1:27:43 Blinking.

1:27:44 Yeah, because he's been mashed through the bike.

1:27:48 And not only does he have roots growing out of the top of his helmet, which is completely cracked open, but then he's got, like, tubes and stuff coming out, like, from the motorcycle. So he's got roots and tubes.

1:28:01 Oh, God.

1:28:01 And it's like when Chi comes back from the grave, which sounds like a... horror title when she comes back from the grave she's like half and half between like you know i just watched that wicker movie with scars guard olivia coleman and it's like part of her looks like she's organic because it's all the roots and everything coming out and then she's got the great like slowing down and it's ripped to shreds and he's got the wind machine going and it really reminds you of that that death figure and you get those constant thoughts of the death angel in the graveyard and that becomes the death at one point, but then when she and Francesco are having sex for the first time, and you get that just amazing shot where she's in front of that statue,

1:28:52 and it looks like she's got the wings, and then the camera comes up even more and shows that it's not that, but then you see Later on, when he's really pissed off, he shoots the wings off of that statue. And then you get the shot from above looking down where it looks like now he's got the wings, but they're these black wings and it just looks so ominous.

1:29:10 I just, it's so fucking good, man.

1:29:12 Yeah, yeah.

1:29:13 He's riffing. He's just constantly riffing, coming up with these visual ideas. It's just, it's really, and it never lets up. I mean, you know, Argento was known for that. I'm trying to think. Suspiria, I guess. There's a couple. I don't know. This might be a controversial statement. I'm not sure there's an Argento film that riffs as hard on the visual tricks and trying to cram something into every scene that wows you, as this film does. I really think it's incredibly generous. The amount of effort went into it.

1:29:48 There is not a single scene in this that is staged in a functional way a boring functional way the closest you get is the scenes like where they go out and meet the mayor at that cafe outside which is because that was supposed to be the real world they just did it very roughly with handheld cameras to try to make it look uglier than the cemetery that's what they were trying to do but anything in the cemetery is it's just absolutely gorgeous yeah you.

1:30:14 Get the fog and everything and just they're franking that smoke machine i mean the The cemetery itself is one of the creepiest cemeteries. Even though Hortonyagi is doing his best to rake those leaves, you always have detritus everywhere. Things are growing all over the place. It just looks like it is constantly in danger of being overgrown by this mandrake. And just, you know, that's it. Because it almost feels like it's like Day of the Triffids or something, as far as the way that the mandrake is almost creeping in on them, and just the organic meeting the rest of the world, and especially the organic reclaiming the corpses and bringing them back. Like I said, you get the different states where you've got the husband character is

1:31:04 not all there, and then you get the mayor who's just like, screw you, Delamore, I've got an election to win. The huge differences between these zombies is great. And yeah, I forgot that Suave had... You mentioned that he had worked with Gilliam, and I forgot that he had worked with him on at least that Brothers Grimm movie, which was an interesting movie. I don't know if it's a good movie or not. It's definitely... I know a lot of people were really ragging on that Hansel and Gretel movie that came out a few years ago with Jeremy Renner.

1:31:40 And it's like, I watched it. I was like, that wasn't bad. I mean, it was better than Van Helsing was. Sorry, Stephen Summers. But now I want to go back and watch Demons again. I can't remember if I've ever seen Demons.

1:31:54 What? Oh.

1:31:56 Sorry, guys. Oh, man, I got shamed.

1:31:59 No.

1:32:00 No, don't be shy. You are lucky. You are lucky. You have a treat.

1:32:07 And just to see his face, because that's his picture in IMDb, is Suave in Demons with that amazing mask.

1:32:15 Yeah, he's the man with the mask that hands the ticket to the Metropole. Not to brag, but there is a beautiful Blu-ray edition of that film that has a commentary track with Miss Kat Ellinger and myself.

1:32:29 Oh, very nice. I have to put that one in my shopping cart.

1:32:37 I don't flex too often, but that one. Well, honestly, I would not have gotten on that if it hadn't been for all the credit to Cav for bringing me on board for that one. But any chance, the soundtrack, my, oh my God, the cast, demons. And I do love seeing Suave pop up as an actor, and he's in Stage Fright.

1:32:58 That's right, yeah.

1:32:59 That's right. And he's got a great line because he's one of the cops and he's this cop that keeps being like, come on, don't I look like James Dean? He keeps doing this whole thing. It's like so cute. Stage fright is a huge gift and I cannot recommend it enough.

1:33:16 Yeah, his acting credits rival his direction credits.

1:33:20 Yeah, he's been in a lot of films.

1:33:21 Yeah, yeah.

1:33:22 But yeah, he's still out there making movies. By the way, I tried like hell to get in touch with him. I tried like hell to get in touch with Rupert Everett. Anybody that was in the cast behind the scenes, I tried my best, but it's been real dry. And especially when it comes to like, I don't want to say foreign films. I mean, this is an Italian film with the, you know, a very strong English lead. Just no luck, no luck at all for me with this stuff. So like, I wish that I had an interview with Suave. At least there are some really good discs of this. Like, you mentioned the Shameless Disc, Rob. I had the old Anchor Bay. That's how far back I go with this movie.

1:34:02 I had the Anchor Bay release, which had some really good extras. And then this new one that's out there right now from Severin. Really good extras, like long extras and very well put together. And then just, yeah, beautiful, beautiful transfer. I mean, this movie you know it it looked amazing when i saw it the first time it looked even better this time uh one.

1:34:24 Tidbit that's related to this film i think we would be remiss if we didn't bring up and i i'm gonna toss this to rob because rob shared with mike and myself the most amazing musical clip yes rob you gotta tell us about those man this was a joy that you sent us.

1:34:42 Yeah, so this, I don't know much, I honestly don't know much about it, but the actor who plays Nyagi is a guy, a French guy called Francois Hadji Lazaro. Apparently they were looking for a Nyagi for a long time. And I only picked this up off the audio commentary where Suave was talking about it, saying, you know, he's actually a really good musician. He's in a band called Le Garcon Boucher. And I thought, well, I'll Google those guys.

1:35:05 And yeah, what are they? They're like a French band. kind of hardcore ska kind of band, I guess.

1:35:12 It's wild. It was like, I think I wrote something about Tia's, it's almost like Bad Manners in a way, and, but Bad.

1:35:21 Immediate thought was the Mighty Mighty Bostines, and I think Bad Manners is a much better touchstone.

1:35:26 Yes, Buster Blood Vessel for the win, but it kicks ass. It kicks ass, actually. It's really such a great, such a great clip, and again, this is why Anybody out there, if you're ever like, I'm bored, first of all, don't be that person. Don't ever be that person. This world is a cornucopia of fascinating information. But secondly, this is the joys of researching. We got this. All because of Rob listening to the shameless audio commentary slash fun. What did they call that?

1:36:01 I'm trying to remember now. A fact something. A fact line?

1:36:06 No.

1:36:06 A fact track.

1:36:07 A fact track. But it was just an audio commentary. It was just an audio commentary, but you had to manually switch the audio over to be able to hear it. So I thought, this is weird. We're just getting writing of, did they write down their audio commentary? And then I realized it was just subtitles for a different audio track.

1:36:24 What a strange way to put that. I just imagine somebody being like, that's an audio commentary. They're like, no, no, it's not that.

1:36:30 Yeah, and it's a good one. It's really good because it's got Suave, you know, so he's given it all out there, but Yeah, it's definitely worth checking out. But I think I looked up those Le Garçon Boucher. I don't know if they changed line-up, but there's a lot of videos online of that band and it didn't have him in it. So I don't know if he left at some point and they kept going or what. But yes, definitely.

1:36:55 It's a great live performance. He's a hell of a fiddler.

1:36:59 That's the thing. He plays the freaking fiddle and sings.

1:37:02 Like, amazing.

1:37:03 Well, and I like that they use that in the movie where he's constantly playing whatever that weird instrument is that he's playing.

1:37:10 Yeah.

1:37:11 Yeah, it made sense to that. Okay, because he could actually play that.

1:37:15 And it's got the big, what is it, like a praying mantis or a grasshopper on the end of his bow when he's playing it at one point.

1:37:21 That's what I mean about generous filmmaking. I mean, the art design in this film, just amazing, incredible. Is it Sergio Stivaletti that did most of the... But either the production design or the makeup effects are a bit of both, I think. But yeah, hell of a crew. You're not the big rock star American guys that we've all heard of, the K & B and that kind of thing, but it's as good as that. Really good stuff.

1:37:43 Yeah.

1:37:44 And I didn't realize that the guy that plays Nyagi then the next year went on to be in City of Lost Children, which I've only seen the one time back in 1995. I need to go and see that. So I would have seen City of Lost Children first, first probably and then I would have seen Cemetery Man if it didn't get its US release until 96 and then yeah he's been in a bunch of other stuff he was in Brotherhood of the Wolf which I really wanted to like a lot more than it did than I did yeah yeah that's cool that's good for you I feel good for.

1:38:20 You yeah I love that for you yes it's okay I mean like that made me laugh I saw that in the theater and I actually literally my friends and i started we were started like giggling it's like oh oh.

1:38:34 Sorry a womanly hills that makes it better yeah and.

1:38:40 It's looking and it's gonna give her a run for her money though Yeah, and her stuff, I've not seen her in that many things. I know she was just in a recent, well, recent, probably 20 years ago, Adolf Lundgren film. That comes up first on her IMDb as the Trafker. Yeah, from 2019. So, pre-pandemic. She was in 37 movies as well. So, yeah. Yeah, interesting cast. And then Mickey Knox, also in here. Famously, him and his girlfriend Mallory Knox, or wife Mallory Knox, killed a bunch of people.

1:39:15 I was about to, oh my god. You said those names and my brain was like, wait a minute.

1:39:24 I was just surprised when Mickey Knox's name came up in the credits. I was just like, that's a real person. Okay, all right. That's good.

1:39:31 Yeah, I just assumed it was an Italian dude, too. He plays Stranieri, does he? The policeman. Wow. He was a good friend of Lee Strasberg, apparently.

1:39:40 Of some of the character actors that they have in the city scenes, like the red-headed guy, the doctor, he just, to me, is such an Italian character. I'm just like, okay. I need to look up his filmography because I'm sure it's like 150 credits.

1:39:58 Yeah, I get it. There's a red-haired guy that appears in a lot of Jolly, and I thought it was him, but it's a different guy. He hasn't been in that much. I know he's in Mother of Tears, one of Argento's later films. one that is not great oh he's also in rocking dark aka terminator was it terminator 2 yeah the italian terminator.

1:40:17 2 yeah i finally saw the red-headed guy who was the the patriarch of the family and uh once upon a time in the west finally saw him in another movie and i i just had a real hard time with that because he's so nice and once upon a time in the west you feel really bad when he and his family get massacred and then he's a total prick i think it might be God forgives, I don't.

1:40:41 I don't remember which one I was watching, but I was just like, oh wow, he's a total jackass in this movie. I've only ever seen him be nice.

1:40:49 One of my favorite titles ever. God forgives. The Italians have some of the best film titles.

1:40:55 Absolutely. Not as good as Cemetery Man, though. Yeah. I mean, Delamore, Delamorte, A Love of Death. I mean, it's so appropriate for this movie.

1:41:07 The great thing is you can't really translate it, but the sort of nuance in Italian is you could also be read as of the death of love is what, so it's a movie about the death of love. So it's, yeah, it is unfortunately somewhat untranslatable, but fuck it. It's cool. It's beautiful. I love saying that.

1:41:27 Oh, this has been so much fun. I'm so glad to have been able to talk about this movie, especially after all these years. And like that, like I said, it was just still so good. Cause I was like, What happens if I watch this movie and I just go, oh, it wasn't as good as I remember.

1:41:41 Yeah, cancel the episode. I can't talk about this. It'd be painful.

1:41:48 Yeah.

1:41:48 All right.

1:41:49 Well, let's go ahead and take a break and play a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.

1:41:53 Hello, everyone.

1:42:02 This is Malcolm McDowell. I just want to say that this is a request to listeners of the Projection Booth podcast to become patrons of the show via Patreon.com. P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Projection Booth.

1:42:24 That's pretty simple.

1:42:25 I think you can do that.

1:42:27 It's a great show, and Mike, he provides hours of great entertainment. So now it's time to give back, my little droogies. Settle down and take a listen and have a sip of the old Moloco. And then you'll be ready for a little of the old in-out, in-out, real horror show.

1:42:47 Bye-bye. The End.

1:43:03 Thank you.

1:43:41 The Lone Ranger.

1:44:14 Oh, my God.

1:44:48 That's right. We will be back next week with a look at Moontide as we kick off Noirvember 2026. Until then, I want to thank my co-hosts, Heather and Rob. So, Heather, what is new with you?

1:45:02 Well, I currently, for our year of the Pumpkin Lord 2026, over on my YouTube channel, I've been doing the kings and queens of Halloween for this year. This little something I did last year where there was a different king and queen of Halloween for each day of October. And I'm bringing it back. And so we have a mix of actors, characters, musicians. And all sorts of sundries. There's even a computer game designer or two in there. So feel free to check that out. Today I just debuted the one for Evil Ed. One of the greatest characters of 80s horror from Fright Night. And I love him.

1:45:46 Love him. 45 Grey. The character LaCroix from Forever Night. One of my favorite TV shows. And all kinds of mixes. So, and for other things, you can go to my link tree, linktree.com forward slash Mondo Heather. Find links to my Patreon, other podcasts I've been on, articles and the like.

1:46:06 Very cool. And Rob, how about yourself?

1:46:09 Yeah, so we just did that on Rob. We did something highly original and only did horror movies during October. Whoa. I don't think it's ever been done before in the podcasting world.

1:46:20 No, whoever would have thought about that?

1:46:22 Quite proud of that one. We were going to call it Shocktober, but someone else had taken that. So I came up with, I think, the even catchier Creepy Spooky Month. I think that was quite catchy. So yeah, we did. We've done a bunch. We did Reanimator. Just talking about it. I had a great time talking about that. We did The Tenant. we did a great Shaw Brothers horror film called Bloody Parrot which I highly recommend people should check out whilst we do Satanic Rites of Dracula we've had Graham Humphreys on to talk about that and The Devil's Reign and we will have just done our Halloween episode on the fly which was just a gush fest really because god perfection what a film yeah and an equally exciting new idea that we had was to do Film

1:47:05 Noir during November which I don't think anyone's done either so All the innovations happening over at Calibre 9 from outer space, guys. Just search it. It will blow your mind. Yeah, doing a bunch of classic films, noir and neo-noirs. And we have one Mike White coming on soon. I don't know if it would have posted by the time this posts doing Kiss of Death. And Illustrious Corpses, which might have been a better name for Cemetery Man, actually, for this film.

1:47:31 Oh, yeah, I like that. Or Bloody Parrot. Now I need to see Bloody Parrot.

1:47:37 Yes, there should be more films called Bloody Parrot.

1:47:39 I mean, why not? Frankly, I'm a big fan of The Oily Maniac when it comes to Shaw Brothers films.

1:47:44 Oh, and we are doing an audio commentary of The Oily Maniac on our Patreon. So we have a Patreon set up as well for Calibur IX from Outer Space. So, yeah, check it out. Yeah, other than that, just doing my usual letterboxd reviews under the name of Mosquito Dragon, so you can look me up there too.

1:48:02 Very cool. Well, thank you again, folks, for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the other shows that I work on. They're all available at weirdingwaymedia.com. By the time this comes out, there should be a brand new website for weirdingwaymedia.com. I'm very excited about that. Thanks. especially to our Patreon community.

1:48:21 If you want to join the community, visit patreon.com slash projectionbooth. Every donation we get helps Projection Booth take over the world. I hear you on my radio You know I flip flip.

1:49:26 Thank you.

1:50:02 I see you in my frigid.

1:50:05 Eyes Baby, I see you in my frigid eyes Behind the mayonnaise When.

1:50:11 You come back I'm gonna see you tonight For.

1:50:15 A midnight snack But don't you hold it You won't get old Cause you're well-preserved In my frigid eyes.

1:50:35 Oh, baby, it looks so.

1:50:37 Good in my crib at night.

1:50:39 Yeah, baby, it looks so.

1:50:41 Good in my crib at night.

1:50:44 Oh, I could give you a million hugs.

1:50:46 It looks so good, I'll cover it up in bugs.

1:50:49 Oh, I miss something under your chair, but that's all right.

1:50:54 I'll sweep you under the rug. Oh, I'll see you next time.