Finding a Good Shamanic Teacher or Practitioner: Shamans Cave

1 00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:07.399 Sandra Ingerman: Hi everyone, I'm Sandra Ingerman, and welcome to the Shaman's Cave.

2 00:00:08.079 --> 00:00:27.459 Renee Baribeau: Hi, I'm Renee Baribeau, the Practical Shaman, and excited to be here with you. And today, I'm going to introduce the topic, and I'm going to ping-pong it off of our last conversation, but today's talk is about how to find a reputable spiritual or shamanic teacher. And if you listened the last time.

3 00:00:27.459 --> 00:00:37.619 Renee Baribeau: Sandra was talking about how the state had retired her from her license. You know, I may get this a little bit mixed up.

4 00:00:37.889 --> 00:00:38.869 Renee Baribeau: But…

5 00:00:39.889 --> 00:00:58.919 Renee Baribeau: she's one of the most reputable healers that I know, and just to say that, whether… I told her that I believed, whether she had a license or not, that people were going to trust her, if that was what she wanted to do, to still do individual healings, which I believe sometimes she does do those. And…

6 00:00:58.939 --> 00:01:04.109 Renee Baribeau: But I was thinking about years ago when one of my own spiritual teachers said to me.

7 00:01:04.949 --> 00:01:07.649 Renee Baribeau: Renee, I think you need to get…

8 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:24.379 Renee Baribeau: your therapy license, or I think you need to go back to school and get your license to… to dance. She said you… the type of healing you tend to do, because… maybe because I was so broken, was I danced really close on the emotional scale.

9 00:01:24.379 --> 00:01:34.989 Renee Baribeau: to what a therapist would do. Now, what I know, you know, that, you know, Sandra, you're trained and licensed, and you keep up on those courses. I never did, I just…

10 00:01:35.299 --> 00:01:41.719 Renee Baribeau: always reflected it back on the things and the places that I had healed, or the therapy that I had sat through.

11 00:01:41.949 --> 00:01:56.179 Renee Baribeau: And I don't know that it made me any less of a therapy, you know, any less of a healer, per se, but I certainly broke some rules, stepped on some feet, and really made a mess out of things along the way.

12 00:01:56.339 --> 00:02:02.559 Renee Baribeau: in my learning. So, how do you find that reputable person

13 00:02:03.089 --> 00:02:10.199 Renee Baribeau: knowing that we're human and we make mistakes, too. So, Sandra, this is great for you to take over here.

14 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:18.629 Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, sure, absolutely. So, I didn't lose my license. I had just told the state last year I was retired, so,

15 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:30.860 Sandra Ingerman: when I renewed my license, they just said, you're retired, and they accepted all my CEUs, and I don't know where that goes, we're waiting to hear. But,

16 00:02:31.330 --> 00:02:45.100 Sandra Ingerman: It's really… this is a really important topic, because when I first started teaching shamanism, I was 29 years old, and there were, like, 5 of us.

17 00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:56.040 Sandra Ingerman: five of us teaching, you know, besides Indigenous people who have always been teaching, always had their own shamans, and

18 00:02:56.200 --> 00:03:14.130 Sandra Ingerman: But as far as getting out in, the Western world, to actually start to teach modern-day practitioners, there was only about 5 of us who were out there. And now, when you look at

19 00:03:14.270 --> 00:03:25.880 Sandra Ingerman: I was just shocked the other day when I saw how many shamanic Facebook pages there are, which I have no intention on going on, because

20 00:03:25.910 --> 00:03:40.469 Sandra Ingerman: Shamanism is a way of life, it's not something that you talk about. And on these Facebook pages, you really see people's inexperience of just fighting with each other, who's right, who's wrong.

21 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:48.279 Sandra Ingerman: And so, I talked to… Renee, I talked to you about wanting to do this show, because…

22 00:03:48.770 --> 00:04:01.040 Sandra Ingerman: all of a sudden, I'm seeing all this stuff on Facebook about those groups, and I'm reading… I don't know how many of you are aware of the new book out called The American Trickster.

23 00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:09.019 Sandra Ingerman: Which is the true story about how Carlos Castaneda lied about everything.

24 00:04:09.340 --> 00:04:14.480 Sandra Ingerman: everything. There is not anything that was the truth.

25 00:04:14.940 --> 00:04:19.150 Sandra Ingerman: And so, the point of this is that

26 00:04:19.269 --> 00:04:23.940 Sandra Ingerman: Carlos started his work back in the 1960s.

27 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:31.439 Sandra Ingerman: And 6 since then… There's the people who are practicing from a place of heart.

28 00:04:31.990 --> 00:04:37.420 Sandra Ingerman: And there are people who are practicing out of a place of greed and ego.

29 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:44.459 Sandra Ingerman: And now, all of a sudden, when you look at the shamanic world in the Western world.

30 00:04:44.650 --> 00:04:56.520 Sandra Ingerman: It's the most flooded. I'm sure it's the same in meditation and yoga, but that's not my specialty. I, you know, I only know about what's happening in shamanism.

31 00:04:56.770 --> 00:05:11.690 Sandra Ingerman: Everybody is a shamanic teacher right now. It's like, everybody is a shamanic teacher, and this isn't about judging anybody. I really want people to understand this is a neutral show.

32 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:18.599 Sandra Ingerman: It's about who are you studying with? What's their experience?

33 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:32.090 Sandra Ingerman: Did they have the initiations that Renee, myself, and thousands of people who are practicing shamanism right now had to walk through the deepest fires

34 00:05:32.190 --> 00:05:35.679 Sandra Ingerman: And come out, alive.

35 00:05:35.870 --> 00:05:41.409 Sandra Ingerman: in order to be gifted this work to share in the world.

36 00:05:41.510 --> 00:05:57.559 Sandra Ingerman: what were the initiations that a lot of the people who were calling themselves shamanic teachers now actually went through? What is their level of experience? How many people did they take one workshop?

37 00:05:57.620 --> 00:06:13.790 Sandra Ingerman: and then started advertising workshops, which has been happening in the West since I started teaching. You know, I would teach a weekend workshop, and then I'd see, posters up all over, Santa Fe about a student.

38 00:06:13.890 --> 00:06:17.430 Sandra Ingerman: Who took a workshop with me and was now teaching the same

39 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:30.049 Sandra Ingerman: And this is common. I mean, this has been going on, you know, I have a website, shamanicteachers.com, where I do have experienced practitioners and teachers.

40 00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:38.799 Sandra Ingerman: And they all complain about that, that people take one workshop, and then they advertise the same workshop, but they only did it once.

41 00:06:38.810 --> 00:06:56.839 Sandra Ingerman: And I said, it's no different than it was in the 80s. Michael Harner used to complain every day to me about all the people who were advertising after taking one workshop with him. That was in 1980. We're in 2026.

42 00:06:56.860 --> 00:07:13.780 Sandra Ingerman: So it's still going on. So, the question is, really, it's not about putting people down, it's not about judging people, it's how do you find a place who's coming from a place of heart, not from a place of ego?

43 00:07:13.930 --> 00:07:16.520 Sandra Ingerman: I'm not just trying to make more money.

44 00:07:17.940 --> 00:07:27.160 Renee Baribeau: Let me just give you a little facts and statistics, since I could. So there was 5 of you teaching, and now there's an estimated,

45 00:07:27.460 --> 00:07:39.040 Renee Baribeau: You know, 20,000… shamanic websites out there in the world, so you each brought 4,000 people forward.

46 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:55.070 Renee Baribeau: And how many of those would you really believe were trained, you know? Last week, this kind of conversation started because I was on Reddit, which I… I don't know why, I didn't know the rules, and I had Practical Shaman in my name.

47 00:07:55.070 --> 00:08:09.590 Renee Baribeau: because, you know, when I got it, I got it everywhere, you know, the website, the… you know, nothing… I wasn't even thinking way back when I did this, because I probably would do it differently today, but now, you know, 20 years later, this is what I have.

48 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:15.850 Renee Baribeau: some… I commented on somebody's post. They were talking about plant medicine, and I'm there like, well.

49 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:20.210 Renee Baribeau: you know, not all… I said something innocuous.

50 00:08:20.380 --> 00:08:32.470 Renee Baribeau: And I got banned from the group. And so I brought it over to our group, which has about, I don't know, we're up to about 65,000 people on Facebook, and I said, wow, I made one comment and I got the boot.

51 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:33.620 Renee Baribeau: And…

52 00:08:33.870 --> 00:08:50.120 Renee Baribeau: And so, this one woman… everyone, you know, sympathized with me and told me a lot of people have been booted from that same group, and, you know, that they didn't really like Reddit anyway. I mean, you know, we always make excuses and stuff, but one woman said in this thread of mine.

53 00:08:51.730 --> 00:08:55.049 Renee Baribeau: People who are shamans don't call themselves shamans.

54 00:08:55.390 --> 00:09:02.449 Renee Baribeau: M… You know… That's just not how I subscribe to that.

55 00:09:02.530 --> 00:09:05.109 Renee Baribeau: The village found me, and the village…

56 00:09:05.170 --> 00:09:23.099 Renee Baribeau: named me, even though I was a marketer and found that name. Like, when I first was training, I was told when I was going to the Anipi that the village always names the healers, and that people… you know you're a healer when people start showing up on your doorstep for healing.

57 00:09:23.470 --> 00:09:37.399 Renee Baribeau: And besides for the initiations, that started to happen to me when I was living in Colorado. People I didn't even notice were knocking on the door and saying, I heard you're a healer. And they're like, well, where did you even hear that?

58 00:09:37.770 --> 00:09:52.109 Renee Baribeau: And it was through people showing up in search of this healing that I had to get my shamanic chops down, or my healing techniques down, because they didn't come in fully formed.

59 00:09:52.420 --> 00:10:03.399 Renee Baribeau: So, I want to tell you that, that even though you might find somebody who's reputable, they may not have all of their skills fully formed, but hopefully they're a few steps ahead of you.

60 00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:11.950 Renee Baribeau: Because, since there are so many people out there, you might find somebody who's only taken a few courses, but they may be naturally

61 00:10:12.060 --> 00:10:20.170 Renee Baribeau: skilled as a healer, so we don't want to… we want not to discount them, but there are certain signs that you want to look for

62 00:10:20.300 --> 00:10:27.769 Renee Baribeau: about this. Like, when I first did my first practice healing, this woman actually sat up in the middle and told me I was doing it wrong.

63 00:10:28.310 --> 00:10:29.660 Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, I've heard.

64 00:10:31.630 --> 00:10:35.100 Sandra Ingerman: I've never had that, but some of my students complain about that.

65 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:46.230 Renee Baribeau: I was like, lie down and shut up. This is my practice session, and you're not paying for it, and you can tell me, you know, in a week or two if it worked.

66 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:56.059 Renee Baribeau: But, you know, so… but I came with the right heart. I was practicing, I was learning. Have I made mistakes along the way? Absolutely.

67 00:10:56.790 --> 00:11:07.190 Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, well, we all have, we all learn from our mistakes. I… I… I was trained a little bit differently than you were, and

68 00:11:07.410 --> 00:11:10.799 Sandra Ingerman: You know, it's a tricky subject, and it depends on

69 00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:18.270 Sandra Ingerman: how you speak about it, but I was trained that, shamans don't,

70 00:11:18.590 --> 00:11:29.840 Sandra Ingerman: will not actually acknowledge that they're shamans, because it's seen about bragging to the universe, and when you brag about yourself to the universe.

71 00:11:29.900 --> 00:11:38.979 Sandra Ingerman: you lose your power. But again, I was trained back in 1980, you know, things that are a little bit different now.

72 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:51.209 Sandra Ingerman: But I had the same experience as you, is that, my biggest population who came to see me when I first started practicing in Santa Fe

73 00:11:51.230 --> 00:12:00.900 Sandra Ingerman: was Native Americans. My biggest population was people coming from the Lakota tribe, because they told me, I don't know if this is true.

74 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:12.650 Sandra Ingerman: But they told me that soul retrieval wasn't practiced anymore, so I had this endless, endless… oh my god, I mean, my whole practice was, soul retrieval.

75 00:12:12.930 --> 00:12:24.229 Sandra Ingerman: On, different Indigenous cultures who the shamans of the community weren't… weren't only doing particular work.

76 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:37.059 Sandra Ingerman: And so, I was always taught that, it's word of mouth, exactly as you're saying. If your village, if your community calls you a shaman, you are a shaman.

77 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:46.789 Sandra Ingerman: And so… And it goes to the same thing. If you're not that experienced, technically, in the work.

78 00:12:46.900 --> 00:13:01.930 Sandra Ingerman: But you're a born shaman, and you have these gifts, people are gonna… are gonna be attracted to you. They're gonna be magnetized to you, because they heard about you through word of mouth.

79 00:13:02.180 --> 00:13:16.439 Sandra Ingerman: Or, they heard about you, that through your books, or, or through, a website. And so it's really important that.

80 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:22.910 Sandra Ingerman: To understand that people are attracted to people who do have a gift.

81 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:28.339 Sandra Ingerman: But they might not have the same experience that you and I have, Renee.

82 00:13:28.900 --> 00:13:31.490 Renee Baribeau: And we may have different gifts. Right.

83 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:38.080 Renee Baribeau: For me, You know, for 10 years, I, I showed up.

84 00:13:38.970 --> 00:13:45.829 Renee Baribeau: because it was the call to work on clients. Now, again, One day, the phone rang.

85 00:13:46.550 --> 00:13:53.180 Renee Baribeau: And I picked it up, and it said, oh, I hear that you do shamanic work. And I'm there like.

86 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:55.079 Renee Baribeau: Who told you that?

87 00:13:55.230 --> 00:14:01.060 Renee Baribeau: Like, I mean, I was… like, oh, well, I heard about it in Peru, and I'm there like, well…

88 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:13.940 Renee Baribeau: alright, you know, and it was one of those spirit calls, and I answered that call, which then took me into LA to have an office for many years, and

89 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:22.130 Renee Baribeau: And I needed that one-on-one practice, but that wouldn't be where I think that my biggest skill is.

90 00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:34.140 Renee Baribeau: I've always thought my bigger skill is in being able to move between all sorts of communities and find the common denominator to bring people around

91 00:14:34.260 --> 00:14:37.619 Renee Baribeau: You know, the central theme, and…

92 00:14:37.780 --> 00:14:44.830 Renee Baribeau: Whereas you've done so much more one-on-one healing than I've ever done in my life, But it doesn't…

93 00:14:45.150 --> 00:14:53.030 Renee Baribeau: it means we have different… we have different prowesses. We're not… we're not of the same, and… and that's okay.

94 00:14:53.860 --> 00:15:04.580 Sandra Ingerman: Well, yeah, on my website, I have people on shamanicTeachers.com, I have people who specialize in certain things. They're really good at certain things.

95 00:15:04.750 --> 00:15:22.800 Sandra Ingerman: And so, if somebody contacts me through Messenger or through an email, and says, you know, I look at your site, and I don't know where to go, and they tell me what they're dealing with, I'll say, here are 5 people who work with the issue that you're dealing with.

96 00:15:22.970 --> 00:15:37.810 Sandra Ingerman: And so, actually, on shamanic teachers, I actually have a whole section on how to find a practitioner to work with, and it kind of overlays into finding a shamanic teacher, like.

97 00:15:38.030 --> 00:15:49.690 Sandra Ingerman: Are they only willing to do a one-time session with you? Because shamanism doesn't work like that. It's not always a one-time session, and you get that miracle cure.

98 00:15:49.730 --> 00:16:09.680 Sandra Ingerman: Are they willing to work overtime? Are they willing to be in touch with you when problems come up and things aren't going that well with the healing, or do they just say, I did the healing, leave me alone? How much money are they charging, and how flexible are they around charging?

99 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:20.670 Sandra Ingerman: How much are they willing to hang in there with you? Because there's a lot of people out there who say, well, I did the healing, what more do you want from me?

100 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:21.950 Renee Baribeau: It's like…

101 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:30.400 Sandra Ingerman: like, well, it's not done yet. I mean, there are healings that happen You know, in a snap.

102 00:16:30.790 --> 00:16:46.719 Sandra Ingerman: It's not most of the population. You have to keep working, and does the practitioner have the patience to keep doing, the integration work and the healing and seeing what more has to happen?

103 00:16:46.770 --> 00:16:58.069 Sandra Ingerman: And how much work have they done on themselves? So, I've removed a lot of my teachers and practitioners who… they're just…

104 00:16:58.130 --> 00:17:15.020 Sandra Ingerman: for different reasons, they crossed some kind of boundary that showed me that ethics weren't that good, and my whole thing is about protecting the public. I have this big issue about protecting the public, which…

105 00:17:15.410 --> 00:17:30.730 Sandra Ingerman: has been, you can't protect the public from everything, but I've tried, and if you look at their websites, they call me abusive and controlling. They write ugly posts about me on Facebook.

106 00:17:30.800 --> 00:17:39.440 Sandra Ingerman: But they crossed a line and showed that they weren't, ready to do this work, that they had some…

107 00:17:39.470 --> 00:17:59.169 Sandra Ingerman: really deep ego work to do first, before they came out saying they're a healer or a teacher. So, I think that's one of the things that you really want to look for, is not how many workshops did a shaman, a shamanic teacher, a shamanic practitioner do.

108 00:17:59.270 --> 00:18:08.970 Sandra Ingerman: But how much work have they done on themselves? And that goes back into the topic of initiation that we both talked about.

109 00:18:09.080 --> 00:18:11.589 Sandra Ingerman: Did they walk through the fire?

110 00:18:11.590 --> 00:18:12.100 Renee Baribeau: Alright.

111 00:18:12.100 --> 00:18:31.830 Sandra Ingerman: They still narcissists, because they never did any initiatory work, and so their ego is blown out of control, instead of understanding that a shaman is just a hollow bone. And the shaman's just the vehicle, so the spirits can come through. It's not the person who's doing the work.

112 00:18:31.830 --> 00:18:47.890 Sandra Ingerman: And so it's really looking for people who have done their inner work, are coming from a place of heart, are willing to hang in there with you, and are willing to be flexible around, especially during these times.

113 00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:55.940 Sandra Ingerman: Around, payment, because there's a lot of ways to work, so it's a win-win for everybody.

114 00:18:58.270 --> 00:19:04.189 Renee Baribeau: You just brought up so many good points, and… It reminded me of why…

115 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.530 Renee Baribeau: I am really… I wanna, I wanna say this.

116 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:17.060 Renee Baribeau: I may be a lot of things, but I really am committed to my clients, and all of those clients that I developed over those 10 years.

117 00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:20.780 Renee Baribeau: Are still… they're not all currently in my life.

118 00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:35.959 Renee Baribeau: But there's not one of them who wouldn't feel comfortable texting me, or sending me an email, or, you know, if something changed in their life, that they know that… that… I felt like it was… the type of work that I did was

119 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:40.550 Renee Baribeau: that I came into Family Systems, that I would hold that space.

120 00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:52.629 Renee Baribeau: as they grew and got married and had children, and, you know, I still watch a lot of them on Instagram, like, I'm so proud of the people that they trans… you know, trans… became.

121 00:19:53.180 --> 00:20:02.699 Renee Baribeau: And quite possibly, you know, one time a client said to me a couple years ago, you saw me at the worst time of my life, and so when I get to watch

122 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.739 Renee Baribeau: you know, who they've become, and the parents that they've become, and things like that. It really…

123 00:20:09.130 --> 00:20:10.760 Renee Baribeau: Lights me up for them.

124 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:11.920 Sandra Ingerman: Whoa.

125 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:23.670 Renee Baribeau: You know, and I think so I hold that. So now, a lot of my work is, you know, on the water system in the community, and it's no less important, it's just different.

126 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:24.840 Renee Baribeau: And…

127 00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:40.980 Renee Baribeau: you know, when I was cooking, we called myself the gourmet guru, but I don't see that I've ever been a shamanic guru. I don't… I know that there's probably a lot more qualified people than me at that, but cooking, I feel like, oh yeah, I can master this skill. And you know what?

128 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:59.789 Renee Baribeau: Recently, my cooking's gone even deeper. When I've given it more time and more energy and more playfulness around it, all of a sudden, I'm cooking really well again. And so I think that we have to keep renewing ourselves, and so if you're looking for that teacher, how do they keep their well filled up?

129 00:21:00.290 --> 00:21:01.070 Sandra Ingerman: Right.

130 00:21:01.070 --> 00:21:02.869 Renee Baribeau: How do they renew themselves?

131 00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:06.800 Renee Baribeau: you know, you see me riding my bicycle. I think that can be very…

132 00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:12.509 Renee Baribeau: shamanic, in a way that I'm filling myself up.

133 00:21:13.150 --> 00:21:21.079 Renee Baribeau: Because we have to keep giving, and if the well dries out, we have nothing left to give, and then the community suffers.

134 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:38.010 Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, I think… I think that's a really important point, and I think also, you're a person who connects. You connect to your cooking, you connect to riding a bike, and being on the land and connecting on the land while you're doing that.

135 00:21:38.150 --> 00:21:44.730 Sandra Ingerman: Where a lot of the problems that we're dealing with right now is because of how much…

136 00:21:44.830 --> 00:22:01.230 Sandra Ingerman: chaos and suffering is going on. People are becoming more and more dissociated because they can't stay in their bodies, and experience the pain, that people are experiencing on the planet right now.

137 00:22:01.300 --> 00:22:12.479 Sandra Ingerman: And one of the signs of a really good shamanic practitioner or teacher are people who can hold that place.

138 00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:20.239 Sandra Ingerman: Of connection to the spirits, to be that hollow bone, to allow them to come in.

139 00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:36.250 Sandra Ingerman: And, dissociation is not the way to do that. So, finding practitioners and teachers who have a way to ground themselves and who take care of themselves

140 00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:39.660 Sandra Ingerman: And who are learning along with you.

141 00:22:39.810 --> 00:22:50.990 Sandra Ingerman: Instead of saying, I know a lot more than you, instead of saying, we're in this together and learning together, because we're in a new time.

142 00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:51.370 Renee Baribeau: Hmm.

143 00:22:51.370 --> 00:22:56.129 Sandra Ingerman: There's always been war on the planet since the beginning of time.

144 00:22:56.560 --> 00:23:05.890 Sandra Ingerman: But every change on the planet created different behavior to the wars and destruction.

145 00:23:06.020 --> 00:23:17.969 Sandra Ingerman: And supposedly, we're evolving and leaving this planet to descendants, so where are we evolving to in the pain and suffering?

146 00:23:18.060 --> 00:23:27.629 Sandra Ingerman: What… what have your teachers and practitioners been able to work through on their own, so that's not all bleeding into your session?

147 00:23:27.780 --> 00:23:31.660 Sandra Ingerman: Or into your, your training.

148 00:23:31.910 --> 00:23:35.400 Sandra Ingerman: You know, are you getting the knowledge?

149 00:23:35.510 --> 00:23:50.719 Sandra Ingerman: Or are you getting the ego? And you really want to be looking for people who hold the knowledge. And as you said, I think it's a really good point. A lot of people were born with the gifts.

150 00:23:50.810 --> 00:23:58.119 Sandra Ingerman: But don't always have exactly, how do I bring this gift out?

151 00:23:58.220 --> 00:24:18.029 Sandra Ingerman: And so people are turning to shamanism now as a path. Oh, this is a way for me to express my inner gifts, and that's beautiful. I mean, we need that right now. That's really beautiful. But it's learning how to discern of who's in the marketplace.

152 00:24:18.340 --> 00:24:20.110 Sandra Ingerman: And who's trying to help.

153 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.470 Renee Baribeau: Yeah, there's a lot in the marketplace.

154 00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:39.100 Renee Baribeau: I think about that when I was newer as a healer, and, you know, and I… it was a bad line that my teacher taught me, was that he always said, like, oh, I can always tell what's going on in my life by who shows up in my office.

155 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.910 Renee Baribeau: And for me, I use that as the land post.

156 00:24:43.520 --> 00:24:45.040 Renee Baribeau: I wanna be…

157 00:24:45.310 --> 00:24:56.389 Renee Baribeau: somebody who's healed all of that stuff that those clients are bringing into the office, so that I'm not projecting my own stuff back onto them, but that I can come from it

158 00:24:56.890 --> 00:25:06.220 Renee Baribeau: and I've watched myself recently, like, that I can watch them go through that, and I don't have to mix it up with how I went through it.

159 00:25:06.350 --> 00:25:21.269 Renee Baribeau: how, you know, and that's a really key thing that you were just… I don't know if you were going there, but it just, like, the clearer I get, the… I can hold… I can hold them for their own healing.

160 00:25:21.540 --> 00:25:23.809 Renee Baribeau: That has nothing to do with me.

161 00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:44.100 Sandra Ingerman: Right, right. And we have been talking about, you know, me as a therapist, and so I've told this story multiple times on different Shaman's Cave shows, but when clients used to come to me, and when we get to the point of, well, why did you come? What's your issue?

162 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:55.059 Sandra Ingerman: I would… I wouldn't say anything to them. I'd say I have to do a diagnostic journey, and I have to go to my helping spirits, and ask my helping spirits what they're advising.

163 00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:14.720 Sandra Ingerman: And, every single time I used my therapist's mind and went to my power animal, and I'd say, this is what I think my client's issue is, he'd go, oh, that's a really wonderful theory, but it has nothing to do with this client.

164 00:26:14.790 --> 00:26:15.320 Renee Baribeau: And…

165 00:26:15.320 --> 00:26:30.370 Sandra Ingerman: And so… fast forward over 40 years later, it's… I make no… I make no decisions in my head about what's happening with the client. I just go straight to the spirits, and…

166 00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:43.760 Sandra Ingerman: what's going on for this person, instead of trying to use my background, trying to use my own ego? I just give it over to the spirits, and I just be that hollow bone for the spirits, and…

167 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:51.240 Sandra Ingerman: That's the kind of teacher and practitioner that you really want to be working with. Of course you want to be working with people

168 00:26:51.240 --> 00:27:03.919 Sandra Ingerman: Who are knowledgeable about nature, and knowledgeable about the spirits, but you also want to work with people who… their ego, they know how to… we all have an ego.

169 00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:17.960 Sandra Ingerman: But when it comes time to teach, and when it comes time to see a client, they know how to store their ego away and stay open to the spiritual powers that are coming through.

170 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:25.560 Renee Baribeau: I think, I think that's great, we've kind of said it, but I think we could sum up for the end, like, red flags to look for.

171 00:27:25.810 --> 00:27:31.530 Renee Baribeau: I mean, all of the stuff going on with Epstein and the charisma

172 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:37.629 Renee Baribeau: You know, my teacher had charisma and women chasing him from around the world.

173 00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:43.650 Renee Baribeau: You know, I look at that now, and I'm… I always felt left out.

174 00:27:43.730 --> 00:27:57.639 Renee Baribeau: You know, so now I would see that as a red flag. And that's not to say that there isn't a certain kind of a charisma that somebody who's done a lot of healing work on themselves offer, but they're not trying to seduce you with it.

175 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:08.640 Renee Baribeau: They're not trying to win you over. You know, hundreds of people sign up for Sandra's classes because they're attracted to her message and her work. You know, but…

176 00:28:09.270 --> 00:28:20.310 Renee Baribeau: if people are trying to appropriate, like, one of the things that Reddit group that I got kicked out of, somebody showed me who ran it, and I went to their website, and sure enough.

177 00:28:21.570 --> 00:28:32.420 Renee Baribeau: They do soul retrievals. So, you know, are they appropriating somebody else's wisdom, and how are they using it, you know, or are they taking somebody else's lineage, or…

178 00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:44.570 Renee Baribeau: Again, the money thing, like, if somebody's asking for way too much money, I would stop in my tracks. My Santo Diami shaman that I worked with for 10 years would only take donations.

179 00:28:44.570 --> 00:28:57.989 Renee Baribeau: And as organizers, we have to say to people, well, our suggested donation begins at… because some people would come sit there for 3 hours and give her nothing, you know? So you have to…

180 00:28:57.990 --> 00:29:05.109 Renee Baribeau: If they're using… one time I was at a retreat center, and somebody was coming on sexually to one of the participants.

181 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:19.729 Renee Baribeau: as a healer, I spent the evening, you know, addressing this with this woman. You know, so it's… if somebody's trying to use their power over and not for you, then run in the opposite direction.

182 00:29:19.730 --> 00:29:37.359 Renee Baribeau: And this is a really important thing, is learning to trust our own discernment around this. If it feels not good, you have to ask two questions. One time, I was with my teacher, the Santo Diamond woman, and all of a sudden, I got this total distrust of the situation.

183 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.310 Renee Baribeau: In that moment, I had to say.

184 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.849 Renee Baribeau: Is this my issue of distrust coming up?

185 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:51.059 Renee Baribeau: Or is this a bad situation? And in that moment, I was smart enough to say, wow, I've never trusted anything.

186 00:29:51.460 --> 00:30:01.359 Renee Baribeau: And I healed through it, but if that gut reaction comes up, explore it. Is this mine to heal, or is this mine to walk away from?

187 00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:17.749 Sandra Ingerman: Absolutely. And I'm not trying to promote this at all, but on my website, shamanicteachers.com, I do have a section on how to find a shamanic practitioner, meaning not where do you look, or

188 00:30:17.750 --> 00:30:26.809 Sandra Ingerman: But these are the qualities that… the money thing, I say, if somebody is charging too much money,

189 00:30:27.030 --> 00:30:33.599 Sandra Ingerman: That's… that's not okay. This work isn't… that's not what this work is about.

190 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:53.090 Sandra Ingerman: And so, the red flags, I think what you're saying, Renee, is something that's really key of trust your intuition. Do you feel that it's not that you're projecting on a practitioner or teacher, but your inner gut is saying, I think

191 00:30:53.090 --> 00:30:56.499 Sandra Ingerman: That this person is good for me to work with.

192 00:30:56.570 --> 00:31:13.669 Sandra Ingerman: Or, no, something doesn't seem right here. Move away. There are thousands of people you could work with right now, so move away. So, I really love what you said about trusting your intuition, trusting the red flags that are coming up.

193 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:19.530 Renee Baribeau: And I just want to end it with one last thing for the shamanic practitioners who are listening.

194 00:31:20.310 --> 00:31:30.800 Renee Baribeau: This year, I took a poll of people of what they wanted, you know, what they were looking, what they were willing to spend for different things, and then I decided I was gonna do a monthly circle.

195 00:31:31.040 --> 00:31:33.480 Renee Baribeau: And I put it at $33.

196 00:31:34.070 --> 00:31:41.129 Renee Baribeau: And, you know, last month somebody wrote on, oh, I was gonna take your circle, then I saw you were charging for it.

197 00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:43.590 Renee Baribeau: And I'm thinking, like, You know what?

198 00:31:43.870 --> 00:31:46.450 Renee Baribeau: I feel really good about what I'm charging for it.

199 00:31:46.990 --> 00:31:55.989 Renee Baribeau: You know, it's affordable, and if it's not affordable, somebody could write me a letter and tell me why they can't afford, you know, $33.

200 00:31:56.650 --> 00:32:06.689 Renee Baribeau: And… but it feels like it's showing up responsibly for the people who are showing up in the circle, who are showing up responsibly for themselves.

201 00:32:07.180 --> 00:32:09.359 Renee Baribeau: Right. It's a give and take.

202 00:32:09.580 --> 00:32:10.340 Renee Baribeau: Yeah.

203 00:32:10.550 --> 00:32:12.510 Renee Baribeau: It is, for sure, yeah.

204 00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:13.690 Renee Baribeau: That's all I have.

205 00:32:13.690 --> 00:32:20.870 Sandra Ingerman: So, there are a lot of good people out there, and we're not trying to plant a seed of fear at all, but…

206 00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:38.290 Sandra Ingerman: Right now, we know that there's overpopulation, and there's overpopulation in certain areas of interest, so it's your maturity, it's where you are in your own evolution to…

207 00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:52.770 Sandra Ingerman: let your own spirit, inner spirit, guide you to the right people to work with. Oh, I have a really good feeling about this person. I'm not sure I have a good feeling about this person, but maybe I should work with them anyway.

208 00:32:52.770 --> 00:32:58.509 Sandra Ingerman: look at what they wrote in their bio. It's trusting yourself

209 00:32:58.610 --> 00:33:17.119 Sandra Ingerman: And trusting your inner radar, to know that there's really the perfect person for you to work with, and open yourself up to your inner radar, your intuition, and your intention to lead you to exactly the right place.

210 00:33:18.310 --> 00:33:19.470 Renee Baribeau: I love that.

211 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:20.940 Renee Baribeau: And,

212 00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:39.240 Renee Baribeau: I think that if you come over to the Shaman's Cave over on Facebook, we can continue this conversation, but I don't really want us to be promoting certain people over other people. That's not the intention, but I'd love to hear what you've learned from

213 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:53.570 Renee Baribeau: choosing, or not choosing, or how you've moved through the subject. I think I'll make it one of the Tuesday talking points to see, you know, how we've chosen people that we were working with, and have we chosen well.

214 00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:10.649 Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, that's a really good ending, Renee, and we really appreciate all the support that you've been giving Renee and I, and we appreciate the heart at which you're communicating with, and we send you many blessings, everyone.