Open Sauce vs Better Software Conference

Also, Casey, what's going on? I was just testing my little mood lighting. Okay. Is it mood lighting or is it a flashlight? Like I'm about to tell you a horror story over a campfire. Yeah, that's what I meant. Like if I was going to be like, the diarrhea lettuce is coming for you. I was like, we might have had different conferences. I ain't touching lettuce for a long time.

Okay, well, I've only ever had regular lettuce. I've never had diarrhea lettuce. But I will say that it is kind of funny that we had so many world disasters that have happened. And the one that's going to take us down is diarrhea lettuce. Like, that's the one that's going to be the end of America because they can't stop eating Taco Bell lettuce. Not just Taco Bell. It's at Chipotle and McDonald's, too. Okay. Yep.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry Chipotle and McDonald's for not mentioning that you also have diarrhea lettuce. Like, yeah, sorry for that. All right. So today's kind of a special episode. I'm going to do the intro. Is that okay? I mean, it's really the question is, is it, is it okay? Okay. So first off, I just got back from open sauce. So my throat is just apps is literally like raw hamburger right now. So it hurts a little bit. So I'm just not going to be, I'm not, I'm not gonna be shouting today. Second, Welcome to the standup, the world's most attended standups. Thank you, interns, for all showing up. Today we have an extremely special episode. We had both Casey Muratori and Began and I going to two separate very amazing conferences. First off, Casey, you went to Better Software Conference, which seems like the best of all the conferences when it comes to software. I do like the idea of better software.

Well, no, it's not the best because that would be the best software conference. It's the better software conference, right? Out of two things, this one is better. Best conference, then. No one knows whether there will ever be a best software conference. And I suppose you really couldn't have one because, well, you could have one once. And then it would have all the best software at it, and that would be it. That would be the end of it. You could never have another one because you've had all the best software at that point. Well, you imply there's no progression.

I guess. Maybe each year there's new best software. I'm not sure. Yeah, it'd be the bestest. The bestest every single time. I do like the idea of best software conference. Like, this is the best software. We have the best software. All the best software. I'm hearing very good things about the software. I think it'd be a cool conference, but you could probably not do big enough. You couldn't do a huge software. It would be like opening a file. This is all we can agree on. We're going to debate the best opening a file program. Right.

Even grep wouldn't make it because there's all these people saying which one is actually the best grep. I would actually love to see a full conference nothing but dedicated to finding the best grep. That's what I want. A week-long track. It has to exist. That's what it would be every year. It's the best software conference, colon, and then it's just whichever thing is going to be debated that conference. Grep one year, editor the next year, whatever.

I do like everyone walks in the room. It's a giant conference. You go, the answer is rip grip. Let's get drunk. Yep. Yep. Short circuit. All right. So as usual, before we get started on knowing about these nice times, because I have some good stories. I have some really good stories from it. I would like to hear what trash.

has for a snack today because I didn't eat breakfast, so I'm like jonesing for some food. Dude, I finished it before the call. I just had this whole bag of spicy pit quarters. A whole bag? But. Okay, what's a popcorn? I got two fortune cookies. I'm buying a snack. Nice, dude. If you're anything like me, you have a bunch of ideas, but perhaps you're a bit disorganized. So often I find myself having a long brainstorming session, but at the end of it, I just have a big markdown file. And then, of course, at that point, I've lost everything. Hey, stop doing that. You got to check out Linear and use the Linear MCP. I have a big conversation. I come up with a bunch of ideas. And at the end...

I get a set of tickets that are actually all the things that I need to do. And when I don't know what to work on, I go, hey, agent, go to Linear and tell me what I need to do next, and it will find exactly what I need to work on. This has been so successful for me that I'm in actual serious danger of completing a project. Go to linear.app slash terminal and get six months for free on Linear. Thank you for supporting the channel, and thank you, Linear, for sponsoring the video.

You want to know what's pretty tight? I'm just going to tell you this right now. If you go buy those bags of, like, of fortune cookie rejects, you're the ones that are flat. Right. Have you seen those? Like, they don't fold up? Wait, what, they're just, like, flat circles? Yeah, so like there's this fortune cookie. Do you mean the paper? No. Are you meaning the paper? No, I'm not. No. Okay, so here's the thing. True story. Anyone who lives in the Seattle area, there's a fortune cookie factory down in the International District. And you can go to there and you can walk in.

And in the front, they just have these big bags. They're like really very quite large of fortune cookie rejects. They're the fortune cookies that don't get folded up properly by the machine. And they're just flat. They're just a flat disc. It's the material of a fortune cookie if it didn't get folded up into the fortune cookie shape. And these are delicious. Like they are so freaking good. Casey, quick question. Do they still contain fortunes?

There are usually just like stray pieces of paper in the bag that have the fortunes on them. So, yes, but they're not they don't aren't contained by the cookie because the cookie, by definition, has no interior. It's like, you know, it's like Galois dream. It only is a flat disc. But yeah. Anyway, continue. No, actually, I actually have one more question about a fortune cookie rejection. Is there is there fortune cookies you can buy that were rejected not because they were made incorrect, but because their fortunes were like really bad?

No, not at this place, although I have had that same thought, and I don't know if anyone's ever done it, but I think there should be a company that you can order fortune cookies from where all of the fortunes are really extremely disturbing. I don't know if that exists or not, but I would order fortune cookies from that company. Miss Fortune cookies would go so hard. Exactly. You wouldn't know the fortunes bad unless you opened them, right?

Well, you know they're bad when you order from misfortunes.com. Oh, I thought somebody from a quality control standpoint. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is a bad fortune. I'm like, did you open it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a guy at a fortune cookie factory who does get a random fortune. He takes it out, and then he has to log it, and after one week, he says, did it come true or not? Yeah, yeah. The ratios get off. Yeah. This one says, love is the way to a joyful heart. It's a nice one.

See, that's a fortune. That's a fortune. That's a fortune. That's a fortune for you, though. That's generic. Yeah, I don't want trash. I want specific advice for trash. One thing that this is a complaint that I have with fortune cookies in general is oftentimes when you open up a fortune cookie, it is a saying, not a fortune. Like, a fortune cookie should have a fortune. Like, you know, you will stub your toe in three weeks. That's a fortune. Like, being happy is a good way to live your life. That's not a fortune. That's just advice.

All right, someone just said this in chat, and it's blowing my mind. What if, hear me out here. Okay. What if we did ads in misfortune cookies? What does that mean? That means not only do you get a fortune such as you'll stub your toe within the next three weeks, which by the way, how good would your toe stubbing feel if you stubbed your toe and it lined up with the misfortune? Like it wouldn't even feel bad anymore. You'd be like, whoa, that actually came true. But on the other side. Yes! I think that's true. I think it would still hurt really bad.

I think you'd be stoked. Let's see. But on the other side, it was just like, sign up for Facebook.com. Connect with your friends, right? Yeah. Think about it. Kick you while you're down. Yeah. You know? It's like, I found out I was going to stub my toe and also learned about Code Rabbit or whatever. Great. It gets more awkward when it's a company we've actually used as a sponsor. I think you would.

Look, man, if you're going to make fortune cookies, you should do them with people who actually paid you. None of this free advertising crap. Well, I was thinking maybe we could just... Like Popcorners, where is the Popcorners payment? Why have we not received a big fat check from Popcorners? We're here pimping their product. Someone has to work there that has seen the stand-up. Actually, I have a new financial advisor, and I was talking about the podcast. I was like, check it out. So I have a meeting with them tomorrow. I expect a full report. Where did you meet your new financial advisor, Trash? It was on Tinder. A fortune cookie. On Tinder.

Mm-hmm. I'm dealing with a lot of identity theft right now, by the way. It's like awful, if you could imagine. Having a password would probably help that a little bit. A unique password. I met with a federal agent yesterday. Are you serious? Wait, really? No, like I'm dealing with some crap. What happened? Password aside, like, dude, they're just going to town on my jump. Everyone wants to be you, dude. I don't know. Someone trying to buy a car? Someone trying to buy a car? Wait, someone trying to buy a car with your name?

Something you can do, by the way, is you can lock your credit so no credit can be looked up. I know, I froze it. It's been frozen for a while. So the guy who got caught trying to buy a car because it tripped off something. Can somebody explain? I would just like to point this out. We are in a world where we have had strong cryptographic signatures for like decades. Can someone please explain to me how identity theft still exists? It's absolutely ridiculous that that's still a thing. Casey, I would love to tell you about that. But before I do, can I tell you just a quick childhood story?

Yes. Yeah. So when I was young, I used to live on Fulton Street. I don't know where that is. It doesn't really matter because I just am giving away information which will allow people to steal my identity. Keep going. Yeah. So my mother's maiden name. All you have to do is just socially engineer just a little bit. And you get so many of these passcodes that people can get in. Security question linked, right? I don't know. I'm trying to say when I was young, I stole a lot of identities. Not proud of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Wait, Prime, are you basically, are you like Don Draper? Did you go to war and then come home as somebody else, and now that's the real Primogen got blowed up by a hand grenade? Casey, spoilers, okay? I just started Mad Men. I'm on season one. Are you kidding me right now? I've never seen it. I just Googled who that was. Are you kidding me? You guys have not seen Mad Men? No. No, I know.

It's not a spoiler, by the way. You find out immediately that this is true. It's not really a spoiler for the series at all. But... What is wrong with you? That's like one of the best shows ever made. Like if you're going to watch one show, you watch Mad Men. Okay, I'll literally watch with my beautiful wife starting Saturday. Oh, can I come over? It's incredible. And everyone loves Don Draper. Your beautiful wife will love Don Draper. Can I interrupt for one quick second? Began just asked if he could come over. Just as like a little just heads up for everybody. Never watch a movie with Began.

yeah you didn't need to tell me that he literally never shuts the hell up shocker that's shocking you know mystery science uh theater 3000 okay being it is like the combination of all three characters slightly less funny and talks 50 more oh i am i am sometimes i hit i sometimes get a hit that's how mystery science theater is too But here, I can defend myself. Because you like a movie, right? Let's, for instance, say maybe a movie like Drumline. You watch it once. I get to talk over it and tell you stories. You didn't get to watch all of it. You get to enjoy that movie again. Like you didn't even watch it the first time. If it's a good movie, it's good. If it's a bad movie, it improves it as well. It always makes it better.

I see. I see what you're saying. Can I tell you guys something? Yes. I don't like the movie Drumline. I don't even know what I've ever heard of it. You can't say that. What is Drumline? I've never heard of it. Nick Cannon's Magnum Opus. Main character is just so unlikable the entire time. Okay. I'm okay with that. He ends unlikable.

I'd be okay with that, though. I like Arrested Development. Everyone in that show is unlikable. I love Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler is the epitome of unlikable protagonists. It's one of my favorite movies. I love that movie. Really? You like Nightcrawler? Loved that movie. Loved that movie. Oh, my gosh.

Pokemon Center just dropped while you guys were talking and I gotta get in the line. Alright, so Trash is out for a little while. Trash, are you in the line? So what are we doing this episode? This is the worst episode we've ever had already. Yes. And we haven't even started it. Look at all this stuff I just got. What the hell is that Trash? That is actually crazy. How much money is that box worth?

What is that? Too much. Too much. What even is all that crap? You're a Pokemon. Are you starting to get to the point where you have ancillary cost to your Pokemon? Meaning that you now actually have to buy a separate shelf just to store those ones. You've actually hit your incidentals at this point. You have so many Pokemons. It's a problem right now.

It's a problem. Are you suffering from Pokemon addiction? Is this a, like, do we need to have an intervention here, Prime? I mean, Trash? Well, what's going to happen is all my kids are just going to come in here and they're just going to rip it all up. So that's the idea. All right. Okay. All right. You know? But I do have a problem, for sure. At least I can admit it. Step one. You're there. All right. So what are we doing today? How about, Casey, how about you go first? Because I think, generally speaking, a lot of people inside of this audience would love to hear about Better Software Conf.

Just because it's like it's this mysterious conference that is filled with like the coolest people in the universe. So, yeah. OK, so better software conference is this is the second time it's been held. The first time it was held was last year. This is a conference that is held in Sweden in the middle of nowhere.

No one could ever possibly find it without an invitation to the conference. And it's unclear that you would want to find it without an invitation to the conference. It is literally like it's you and some moose. And that's about it that is at this conference. And it is dedicated to exactly what its name implies. It's just for people who think that software is not particularly good right now and would like it to be better. So, for example, if you're the kind of person who boots up Adobe Premiere and thinks that that's a pretty good video editing experience, this is not the conference for you. If you boot up Adobe Premiere and you want to throw your computer through a window, this is the conference for you, right? Yeah.

And so the conference is structured in such a way that there's like two days on either end that are just for participants to like hang out with each other and talk about like software development and things like that. And then there's three days, like the interior of it is three days of just talks and stuff where people are talking about things they're working on that are, you know, attempting to make better software. That's how it's structured.

And I mean, yeah, I wanted to support this conference because I feel like not very many conferences. I feel like it's very hard to find a conference that acknowledges that software currently is terrible, which, you know, is my kind of opinion on it. Like, I feel like it's massively under delivering. on the potential that it, you know, if you think about what we could be doing with the hardware that we have and you look at the average user experience across most of the things that they're using today, I think it's like we're massively underperforming where we could be. And it's, you know, normally at pretty much anywhere I would go or on the internet or anything like that, it's an uphill battle. Like most people are just like, you're just stupid. You don't know what you're talking about. Like you obviously, I don't know, you're game dev or whatever. Casey, Casey.

I don't think you'd realize how complex Notion is. You think you can just enter text? You think you can just type text, you crazy man? It takes a lot of processing to get that done. Yeah, and so that's how it normally is, and that's fine. I'm used to it. It's been that way for 20 years I've been saying this stuff. And so that's fine. That's just how it is. It's nice to have one conference where you go and you're not going to get – pushback. Like if you're like, you know, I should be able to type text at full speed into an edit box. Like that's, I should be able to paste. I should be able to cut and paste text into an edit box. The scroll bar should be visible on the screen. So I know that I can scroll the window, like basic crap like that. You can say that at this conference and nobody thinks you're ridiculous. Right. Whereas normally you say those things and you're like, oh, you just don't understand. Like clean user interface means that there's no UI anywhere. You're just supposed to guess if there's a scroll bar or how you might scroll the window. Right. Right.

And so it's really that's what the conference is mostly for, is people who are in that mindset and to be supportive of that mindset. And so it's niche in that sense, because most developers, I don't think, would agree with that. They think, like, all this stuff is good or something. I don't know what they think. I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I usually get pushback for saying things are, like, low performance or whatever.

So that's what it is. And for the past two years, because I wanted to support it, I did the lead off, like I did the opening talk. Because in terms of like visibility, like people who have a lot of like, you know, followers on social media or who have YouTube channels that a lot of people watch, You know, not a lot of the people there had that, you know, going into it. And so I was kind of just trying, you know, it's basically like an awareness raising thing. I did the opening talk. And so the big oops, the one that I did that was kind of that history talk on sort of the, you know, ideas of object oriented programming from the early days.

That was my opening. That was the talk that opened BSC in 2025. And then this year, 2026, I did another one of that kind. It was on premature optimization is the root of all evil, the history of that saying, where it came from, what the environment of programming was like at the time, and like who the main figures were involved in it and all that sort of stuff. It's the same kind of lecture. Casey, quick question. Yes. Would you say today that the use of premature optimization is the root of all evil is the root of all evil?

I know where you're going with that. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, what you're saying there, but I wouldn't say that because I think in software we have a lot of problems right now. I don't think just people avoiding optimization is the root of all evil. I would say it's a bad thing. Not thinking about optimization enough is a problem, but we've got a lot of problems. So it's one of many. It's one of many problems that we have, is I guess how I would state it.

Um, so anyway, I, I gave that, uh, talk at this, this year's one. And then I think, you know, next year we'll probably, uh, I'm, I'm going to kind of bow out from, from doing the opening. So, uh, next year, you know, I feel like it's a good time. It's, it's a well-established conference now. Everyone knows what it is. So I think now it's probably a good time transition. And I don't, I don't know who will be, uh, sort of like leading the opening up the conference next year, but it won't, won't be me. Um, yeah.

Is it because the travel's too much? Because Sweden is a long way away. Well, I think in terms of me going to it, I might not go next year because the travel is extremely difficult for us to go there. But that's not why I wouldn't be opening it. I just think it's good to have a variety. I don't think you want a conference that Casey opens every year.

Right. Like it's not my conference. Right. So I think it's good to have kind of just like a variety of people. And it's a well-established conference now. It's proven very popular. So I don't think they'll have any trouble getting someone who they want to open it. Right. So I don't I don't think they need me to do it is another way I would say that. Right. I think so. So I think that's really good. They've done a great job establishing the conference. They've gotten good talks that had nothing to do with me already. So I think it will be easy for them to put together whatever lineup they want.

So I'm not concerned about that at all. But yeah, in terms of getting to the conference, it's two days of travel from the U.S. because you first have to get to Sweden and then you have to get out to the middle of nowhere. And so it's a pretty, it is demanding travel. And I guess, you know, maybe that's kind of what they're going for. They want it to be a conference that only people who are pretty dedicated and actually want to, who really want to go to it are going to go to it because it is fairly exclusive. You have to get an invitation to go to it and so on.

Question, Casey. What's the demographic of the audience? Is it game devs? Is it a good mix? No, I would say it's... In fact, it's probably 50-50 on game dev and app dev, and the more popular things that have sort of been associated with it and come out of it are actually not games. So, you know, the first...

The first year, for example, some of the best stuff had nothing to do with games. You know, there was a really good there. There were some really good things out of that did have to do with games. Like, for example, the author of Teardown, the voxel destruction game. It's really kind of an amazing technical game, physics game.

You know, imagine Minecraft where all the blocks were physically simulated and could crumble and destroy. If you've never seen Teardown, you should check it out. Very, very successful game. Lots of copies sold and very popular. The author of that... gave a lecture there about, you know, how they did the multi-threading of the physics, for example. So that was a game lecture. But at that same conference, the author of Filepilot talked about how that was made. And that's obviously has nothing to do with games. That's a file browser for Windows. That's awesome. I use it. It's my normal file browser now on Windows. And there was also a talk on like the RAD debugger from Ryan Fleury, right? And that's obviously has nothing to do with games. That's a debugger.

This year, there was a pretty awesome presentation by the authors of a new video editing package called Blick, B-L-I-C-K, which means, I think, blink in German or something like that, which was basically people who got together at the last Better Software Conference, and in between now and then, they've basically built a replacement Adobe Premiere that's super fast.

And it looks awesome. When that VOD comes out, you should check it out. It is insane. Like, it's so instantly fast for everything you do and has all these great features. They do all this awesome stuff so you can see, instead of just your waveform being this bland thing that you can't read anything from, they do this FFT on it so you can see where the bass hits are. It had so much thought put into it, even for just their initial alpha version.

But it's so cool. And so it's stuff like that that's really inspiring because you see these people who are inspired to make better software by the conference and by this sort of movement and seeing people actually making this software to replace crappy things that I have to use every day is fantastic. And so I think it's a really cool conference for that reason. And that's basically what it's about. My talks there have both been history talks.

But a lot of the talks, and that's just because I wanted something that would set an appropriate tone, that would be, you know, that would do well online, that people would come to see and they'd check out the conference and check out the other talks because the talks get posted on the conference page. But a lot of the talks there are just about software people are making that's better. Eric Lengel, who is the author of Slug, which is the font rendering library used by Apple Computer, like that sort of stuff. Like, it's very, very popular.

He also presented a new equation editor that he made that looks absolutely fantastic. And I know this is kind of a niche market for people who make technical papers and write books and things like that. But it was a great presentation. I highly recommend watching that one as well. There's a ton of stuff. Someone presented a new, Martin Courtois, I can't pronounce his name. He's French, so I won't try. But presented a new raw image editor that he's been working on that has some really great features on it. So there's a ton of really cool stuff in there to check out.

Fun fact, Blick, written in Odin. Yes, written in Odin. The language that Wikipedia won't recognize now has two major art productivity software packages written in it, Jenga FX and Blick. But, you know, not noteworthy, according to Jimmy Wales. I have a follow-up question. So you mentioned it was invite-only, which I wasn't aware of, actually. How does one get an invite? Ooh.

I don't know. Obviously, people who have gone before and are closely associated with the conference can obviously get you in, like if you asked me, I would ask them, could you please invite trash or whatever. So one way is to know someone who goes, who could like ask, right? Casey, can you go? Other than that, I don't know. Casey, can I go? Absolutely. Prime, you already had an invitation. I feel like they sent you an invitation for 2025. They did. Yeah, I couldn't go. So, yeah. But, I mean, yes, I can absolutely pass it along. But in terms of how you actually normally get an invite...

I don't really know. It's not my conference. Like I said, I wanted to be very supportive of the conference. So I am associated with it in the sense that I tried to give them a good signal boost. But I have no, like, you know, I obviously can send messages to the organizers or whatever, but I am not responsible for it and I have no particular clout. So they could also tell me no. Like, can you invite trash? And they're like, no, I don't know. I can't.

There's nothing I can do about it, right? So I don't have any authority. I have no power here. I'm just a dude who gave the opening talk, right? Well, Prime, it sounds like Casey's setting you up right now, okay? He doesn't want to open up the next one. Maybe you could open up the next one. I got a good idea, too. Since you're now a game dev writing stuff in Odin, They want the conference to be hard to go to, right? They put it in North Sweden in the Swedish woods, I'm assuming. What we should do is we should build a tower that attacks the people trying to get in and they can make it past our tower to get into the conference. It's gated. Oh, I like it. Like this is the most, forget gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is tired. Wired is tower keeping. Like we are tower keeping this conference.

I like this. I like the idea of someone's packing, you're packing a shield and armor. It's like, what are you doing? I'm going to a software conference. I don't even know if I'll get in. I'm trying to go to a software conference. I don't know if I will make it. Yeah. I like this idea. Because if they don't make it in, they die. They're obviously not ready for better software conferences. Yeah. And another thing that's weird about this conference, this has nothing to do with anything, but let's end on this and then we can talk about OpenSauce, is the weirdest thing about this conference is like it's in the middle of nowhere, right? And so, you know, the entire lodging of the town is taken up by this conference.

And I mean that literally. There is nothing. There's nothing. When the conference occurs, that's it. There'd be nowhere to stay if you were, like, a traveler who was trying to stay over in this town. There's nothing. Forget it. You're not staying there. So it's kind of, like, ridiculous, right? And it takes up the entire, like, you know, place where this, the entire lodging that this town has. You would not expect this.

But the place where it's held, the food, all the food is included. Like your breakfast, lunch, and dinner is just included with the conference pass that you buy. The food, both years... has been absolutely outstanding. I do not know what the deal is, but, because when I've gone to Sweden, generally speaking, I apologize to the Swedes for this. I'm sorry, I'm just being honest. Like in Stockholm, when I eat there, I don't think it's a particularly good food city. Like, it's not like when you go to Tokyo or something and you're like, oh my God, the food here is outstanding. Like I went and bought this shitty thing for $5 and it was like the best one I've ever had, right? It's like, it's not like that where you just, everywhere you go in Tokyo, the food is incredible, right? It's not like that.

It's the opposite of that. You go to Stockholm and you're like, well, some of the pastries are okay. Most of the food I had is pretty mediocre or whatever, right? It's like you wouldn't go there to eat. But this town in the middle of nowhere, whoever the chef is at this venue, the food is absolutely incredible. I do not know what it is, but every year, every single dinner and lunch, you're like, this is really good. What's going on? So anyway- That is actually a huge selling point to go to this conference because typically when you go to a conference, the food and the stuff is just like, here's a cold sandwich. Yeah. So that is awesome to hear that this is like... No, it's weird. The breakfast is whatever. The breakfast is just a normal hotel breakfast kind of a thing where it's just whatever. There's some eggs. You won't be particularly impressed by the breakfast. But the lunch and the dinner, every time I'm like... I scoop this because it's served buffet style. All the attendees are there. There's all these hot plates and stuff. I'm like, this is...

I'm like, this is really frickin' good. What is going on? So I don't know how that worked out. Just random luck, I guess. It's both years. So anyway, there you go. All right, quick question from the audience, which is from Last Royal Raven. Did you try a surstroming in Sweden? A surstroming. Is that some kind of sex act? Because I didn't have a chance, I don't know. You didn't have a chance? I didn't get my surstromed, if that's what you're asking. I don't know what that is.

Yeah, fermented fish. It's a fermented tinned fish that some people say is quite pungent. Casey, you are way off. Probably I have not tried it. What I will say- Oh, you know when you try it. What I will say, well, let me just add something to that though. That is what a lot of people say, but I find that my tolerance for your country's weird food is shockingly high. Like, everyone was all going on about, oh my God, you're going to, like, natto is terrible. Like, don't ever eat it. I ate it and I was like, it's fine. Very little reaction. Is surstroming like lutefisk? I've heard of lutefisk, but I don't know.

I don't know what that is. You've never had Lutefisk, the Christmas treat? Yeah, treat might be pudding. Might be a little optimistic. What is it? Just a little bit of fermented fish. Oh, is that that stinky thing that people throw up when they open it? Yeah. That particular fish, someone mentioned it. You're not allowed to bring it on planes. That's the one if you open the can on plane. It is like a, we need to land. Okay, so like a stench, like a real stench. Yes, it is a real stench. True story. One time, Mitch, the sales guy at Rad, microwaved some cod in the microwave at the office, and it stunk.

so bad that I just worked from home for a week. It was the worst stenching of an office I have ever experienced. And we were pretty small at that time. We were only like five people or something like that, so the office wasn't very big. So this just really, yeah. So I can understand that. If you've got one of those pungent fish things, you should not be able to open that on a plane. That's not allowed.

You know, I actually feel genuinely bad buying beef jerky. Just because even that alone is like pretty pungent for the people around you. Except for Kobo beef jerky, which is now like, this podcast has been responsible for so many orders apparently this time. I love this idea that we have somebody that is not affiliated with the podcast, but we keep bringing them up in almost a sponsored style sounding. There's just a tiny little operation. It's like, you know, it's like a husband and wife team, I think, that just makes the jerky by hand. So I felt really good about the fact that all these on their Instagram, they're showing all these orders lining up. I was like, oh, we did something good. Wait, Han, they're not vibe jerking? Like nobody makes jerky by hand anymore, okay? Everybody vibe jerkies.

haven't you tried Claude Fable's new jerky? It's way better than OpenAI's latest jerky drop. It's true. Honestly, it scored way higher on the benchmarks. Way higher on jerky bench. Jerk bench. All right, so Prime, let's swap conferences. Oh, and I'll just end by the VODs for better software comments will probably start rolling out in two weeks once Sander has a chance. Sander does the AV there. He's amazing. He's really good. He does, like, this pro-level AV because he works in the film industry. He does, like, pro-level AV for the conference, like, basically by himself. It's kind of incredible. I saw you on the AV bench. Like, you were up in – what were you doing in there?

I thought he did such an amazing job last time, and he was basically all by himself. He has a camera guy who does the camera for him while he does all the stuff. So this year, I was like, hey, after my talk, man, just show me how to do it so you can take a break sometime. So I didn't do as good as he did, obviously, because I was kind of a novice.

I can't do as good as Sander, but I kind of learned how to do it. I learned how to do the switching of the camera, which camera angle we were doing, and learned how to do the audience faders and stuff like that to get on the mix board and all that stuff. And so I filled in for him. I had a blast doing it. I didn't really get good enough in the short time I was doing at the conference to really be a proper stand-in for Sander, but I did the best I could. And he got to take a break, so that was good.

But yeah, he's amazing. The reason the conference looks and sounds so good is just because he is a pro, like literally, like what he does for a job is being on film shoots, doing the audio for film shoots. He's like a legit like film audio guy. Oh, that's cool. And so you go up there and the AV bank just is insane. He's got all the special mics with the headset mics with the things and all that stuff. And he's got it all wired in mixers. He's got the custom stream deck thing set up for all these different camera inputs. So you can switch between stage and zoomed and slides and all this stuff. And they have animated transitions. So it's just really pro and it's hilarious because I've been at so many conferences that were like these

you know, multimillion dollar conferences that, you know, big corporations are running and the AV is garbage. Right. You go to this one that was like done by some people, some people who just kind of did it in their spare time to hold this conference. And because Sander was one of the three main people who put it together, the AV is like astronomically good. So that was pretty cool.

Anyway, so the VODs will be rolling out in a couple weeks once Sander gets back from vacation because he's taking a much-needed break right now. When he comes back, he'll edit those together and put them up, and you can check out BSC 2026s, including my lecture and including other people's, like that Blick presentation, I think is really cool that you can watch.

So, open sauce. You guys, while this was happening, you were at something called open sauce, which to me sounds like what happens when you open sauce. Like, I'm going to pour it onto something. Oh, I like it, Casey. But I don't know. That's just the literal. No, it's open sauce, but like Northeast. It was a New England accent. Open sauce. But you code an open sauce? Yeah. That's how I picture it. Like, pock the car. You've got to open the sauce. You've got to open that sauce. Stir the sauce. Open the sauce. Put it on stuff. I don't know.

That was really good. I'm from Massachusetts. I'm literally from Massachusetts. That's why I can't do it. When I used to play Little League, the next town over, Maynard, they had super, super strong Boston accents. And saying, like, retad all the time. Oh, I love it. They're always like, that's retarded. Come on, that's totally retarded all the time. Everything you do, like, if you strike out, that's retarded.

I'm going to get Casey back to Massachusetts to see the accent come back out. We're definitely going to plan something there. I'm dying. Anyway, so Open Source. Prime, tell the audience about Open Source. When you went to Open Source, where was it? Is that in California? I don't even know. I've never even been to Open Source. I haven't even heard of Open Source before I heard that you guys were going. Could you imagine if Casey just actually talks like this all the time? Casey, can you say welcome to computer enhanced.com or something?

Welcome to Computer at Ass.com. We got a lot of great programming stuff for you to do here. We look at the code. We look at the assembly language. We see how long it's taken. I don't know. It's not my problem. You know, I ran the thing, the benchmarks. It ran crappy. So we tried to fix it. The process is a piece of shit. I don't know what's going on. Anyway, I'm going to go make some linguine. Okay.

That's really good. I wish I could do that too. Afterwards, I'm going to take this recording and just like sit in my room. Practice. All right. Retire. All right. Retire. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So little fun fact about OpenSauce. It was its fourth year as a conference. I believe the original intent was after Maker Faire went out of business or stopped happening. There was no alternative. There was nothing where a bunch of people who build stuff can get together and show people that they build stuff.

For those of us who don't really know much about this, can you also explain kind of what Maker Faire was? Because I was kind of out of the loop on that, too. I've never been to Maker Faire, but the general vibe that I've gathered from it is that, like, you know, there's a bunch of people that just make things, 3D print them, hardware, kind of slap everything together. And it's like, look, home arcade. Look, I've made, you know, this is a wheelchair that goes 40 miles an hour. Okay, cool.

Open Sauce vs Better Software Conference

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