The Wikipedia Odin Controversy and the Red Button Dilemma

Time out in four minutes. There's a Pokemon craze. We have to like totally disengage and buy these Pokemon cards. We can just trash Don't mind us. We can wait. Oh, I'd like to see that on stream. Yeah, trash. Can you show your screen? I need to see trash Buy some Pokemon my queue just refreshed. Oh, no the cherry fresh. No trash. It's over Oh, no, I'm in time out buying cards right now as we speak that gives it I'm locked up right now. I cannot do such things because if it's a lot By the way, trash are you a little bit worried about he's acting being killed for the first time due to a Pokemon?

Wait, what? I'm just someone just got murdered for their Pokemon cards. Trash prime don't distract him, bro He's he's locked in trash keep focusing Yeah Bro, I can see trash looking at Pokemon cards in the reflection of his glass There's a problem here. Oh, no. Oh, no, and it says everything's out of stock And I'm pretty upset right now. Did you get scalped are the scalpers just like auto-barring everything?

This is the official this is official Pokemon Center website and they do drops. They do a queue like once Every couple weeks or so and I wasn't a queue for like an hour. Oh, that's weak trash only hour, bro It looks like I'm late. So Tell us a little more about the drop Or is it Is it too I mean like what generation Pokemoner in the drop? Why is it cool?

I need to know more drop was gonna be the new set. It's a new set called a set of heroes Well, it's like it's a newer set and it's like one of my favorite sets So everyone the scalpers are all over it. So everyone's like bodying So it's like me versus the bot. So I'm not gonna win. Oh, it's I spend like $2,000 for a bot, which I will not do Good job, trust such high demand So what do you mean you could just build your own with puppeteer like playwright pretty pretty straight forward I think there's like there's like some like specific things you can do like you can't just interact people's interactions Like there's always trying to come by him in an honest way prime Yeah, don't do this. This is all that is when everyone's dishonest

That's the new all that like that is the new level that you have to be like Oh, the only way to be able to buy is that if I don't have a robot, I will never buy you know I'm gonna talk about that today. I know we are good. I'm tired I always have to track every time your wife leaves stuff in the sink I would assume that using a bot for Pokemon is not You know, I will I will take that on the chin Welcome everybody to the stand-up today We might have one of these single greatest episodes ever as we will be arguing over everything that is just so dang intense But before we begin before I even get to the episode we always have to address the blockers Do we have any blockers?

I have a blogger. It's a short one. It's a short one. I'll send it in the twitch chat so you can display it to the audience I I got outpunned by someone recently on x.com and Their request was that I share it as my blocker So I just wanted to make sure I'm coming through on my promises and my commitments This is a place where we make sure we follow through and There we are. So probably maybe you want to scroll up just a touch to give the initial and maybe you could do a dramatic reading prime That would be really helpful for me because your screen's 12 pixels on my end You're killing me merge cop that little stunt of yours turns with six-hour post mortems He's emerging to prod you have the right to remain silent come on commission that code wasn't clean in you know

I don't got time for this them. Our seas are being vandalized across the city A diff no no no the difflers a myth the difflers out there and I'm gonna be the one to deprecate I need to focus on your gira tickets not chasing a ghost no more cowboy coding for you I'm assigning you a partner a partner. You can't do this to me. I am a lone wolf. I'm an I see I do not need some dead weight junior dad hold me back. Oh, no. You're not reverting this one merge cop He might actually teach you a thing or two. He did graduate top of his class with a flawless C.I. record Merge cop meet your partner lieutenant squash Pleasure then that you're acquaintance Test functional tests and the end test acceptance test performance tests load test stress tests

Math tests system tests internationalization There has been a reporting of a diffler sighting at a local cafe copy. We're on it It's our chance to get the different get in Compatibility test. I just want to throw more kinds of shot at twish. It's time to get the different Vanity test snapshot test Smell that I've been telling them I need new nails Oh The commission that we have to stay in the car. I'm about to get forced my fist in the differs face We have to stick to the process What do you think you're doing?

Building in public wrong answer I know my rights. This is just a side project What is Merge cop even doing? I'm working on my side project. I don't even need him I'm using code rabbit with something like code rabbit. It's like having a code founder always watching my back I'm not gonna leak customer information. I'm always gonna be up to date on coding best practices You don't believe me. You can try it too. I could rabbit daddy. I Next week on Merge cop I'm on your Yeah, I'll do a dramatic reading and also twitch chat can't technically see it due to the fact that Things right now. What is this picture? There's like a blurry picture of a door or something?

Yes, yes, first I'll describe what is happening first and foremost and then we're audio listeners Yeah, for our audio it listeners only and for everybody and for anyone enjoying the Riverside live Which is basically audio it's not it's a podcast platform. That's audio It starts off with a picture that has like a what appears to be a very girthy door I'm thinking what four inches thick right there At least four inches bro. Whoa But also the door makes no sense it looks like it's it splits the entryway down the twain like or it's what's it in twain Because look at it like that door is too big to fit in there. Yeah, so you push it in and then turn it Yeah, it's really confusing it says where do we even buy a door like this?

And then read the name of the company. Oh, yeah, so it's called founders fund and So he asked Ryan Peterson asked where do you even buy a door like this TJ responds with at Founders find It wasn't that good instead of Such a bad pun like TV level pun this has to be one of your worst. It was it was just guys. Hey, okay You should you take a lot of shots on cool. I like it. Okay. Thank you track. Yeah Yeah, then dang because his name was already with handle already taken sols Says more like found doors That one was good found doors fund. I know found doors fund Yeah, that's pretty good. All right. Tell me It's pretty name is already taken so so is it's just like a way to say sorry Yeah, thank you trash for the cultural update. That's great. He said

Salves those like I can't that's a good point that's a good point Continue though prime. There's a little bit more. There's still some good stuff in the thread. Oh, there is I thought you just said I like that one too and he says mention my tweet on the stand-up or you will be found dead Oh my gosh, that's good found dead. Oh my gosh. That is a good one He got me with the back-to-back so I said it'll be one of my blockers So just so you guys know if you come at me with some good puns You'll make it on to the pod. I mean that's that's pretty much the most intense thing that I do on a week-to-week basis is Puns on the internet. So if you've got some and you're ready to go. I mean, I'm listening

I'm always I'm always available for that. So that's my blocker. Thank you everyone. Appreciate the time TJ has made an entire career off of making puns on the internet Shrooms true. That's actually I thought he'd stop by now. Nope. Nope. Just gonna keep going That's my blocker. Casey. I thought you had a blocker though. I Had a blocker. I don't think so. There's a real one. Yeah, Casey. You said you had a blocker We were calling the Wikipedia situation a blocker. So yeah, this was sort of a maybe we could call it a blocker for the The Odin community writ large Most people probably anyone who watches this show because prime has covered it before but on you know If you're watching this YouTube channel, for example

You probably know there is a programming language called Odin that people use to do stuff It's a relatively new language and by that I mean, you know, 10 years or so. It's not new like yesterday But you know new in the pantheon of languages like C that have been around for five decades or more Anyway, this language does not currently have a Wikipedia page Which is kind of odd because you know if you were wondering what is the Odin language You might want to be able to read a Wikipedia page about it that would like Consolidate some links for you and have like a summary of the grammar, which is just generally what Languages programming languages have on Wikipedia and you can go on Wikipedia and you can get this for a lot of languages

Which I think is nice Including languages that are extremely esoteric Languages that only people like me are ever looking for Because we're doing historical research or whatever, you know, there's to it So that is how you would like things to function Unfortunately as many people know if they've ever interacted with Wikipedia as sort of a a The hive mind that is Wikipedia They have a lot of rules and Oftentimes these rules require them or seem to require them to do things that are counterproductive So there actually was a wiki page Wikipedia page for Odin and It got deleted and the reason it got deleted was because they decided that Odin was not a Notable enough language And notability is like a thing that's based on sort of their rule set

It has to do with like how many third-party publications, you know think wired magazine or something Have ever mentioned Odin before and things like this It doesn't include things like oh lots of people are making programming languages in Odin or you can go on YouTube and find prime talking about Odin or anything like that Those are things that don't count according to them, right?

So normally I suppose we wouldn't necessarily talk about this on the stand-up But amusingly for some reason somebody tweeted at Jimmy Wales and I don't know why and basically said like why did Odin you know like what's going on here and Jimmy Wales was like can someone send me a link to this or whatever and Jimmy Wales looked at the talk page for it was like seems seems correct seems like they deleted it I don't know this this language doesn't sound pretty interesting or whatever, right? It's like I'm fine with that and So a bunch of us have an eruption. Who's Jimmy Wales?

So Jimmy Wales I sure you obviously already know who he is but for the sake of the audience Jimmy Wales is and This apparently is very controversial what I'm about to say. Oh, I love it already Jimmy Wales is the co-founder of Wikipedia now he literally I guess walked out of an interview because someone referred to him as the co-founder and not the founder of Wikipedia so Maybe I should just say he's the founder of Wikipedia. I don't know. I don't have any idea what that was about But this was this is apparently a thing If you want to go ahead and Google for like Jimmy Wales walks out of interview You can watch it. I don't know Okay, well Casey Casey. I have the definitive proof. Okay, since we know Wikipedia is the sorts of all truth

It is yeah, he is best known for co-founding Wikipedia And and that's why I said me that's why I said co-founded and that's also why the interviewer said co-founded He says it right in the clip. He's like on Wikipedia. It says you are co-founder So so so I I don't know like right like I have no Maybe there was some bad blood there. Maybe it's a sore subject. I have no idea all I know is I don't and then call him co-founder Like I just hear like that is done and then hang up. Yeah, and then you'll walk out I don't have any other solution, but I want to hear the rest of the story first so anyway The only reason that this is now became a thing is because You know, he he tweeted about it, right? And so a bunch of us replied and like I

Replyed for example being like I don't understand like what's the deal like this This is a programming language that's definitely notable like that's really not debatable at this point like you know ginger bill got hired by jenga effects Literally the company whose entire code base is written by Odin He got hired to maintain Odin at that company because it's critical to their software stack, right?

Um, and so to me like that's enough because if I'm trying to understand like sort of programming language stuff If I'm trying to understand like that company and what their software was written in you know much less Relevant languages are have been documented and I'm glad they've been documented like purely theoretical languages that have only existed for people to kind of talk about or Analyze things like how about Yeah, yeah things which no one will ever ship anything bit like no sorry I'm sorry. There's functional program people out there who are losing their mind right now. No, I mean But seriously, I think it's a good thing to basically say look let's document what these things are It's a nice repository for that and as long as you have good sources for what the language actually is and in the case of something like Odin

It's very easy you can go on to GitHub and you can get the language you can use it you can read their documentation One of the Django effects Engineers has a big blog post where he talks about how they use it or how he was like Had to learn it when he was going to go use it at Django effects and things like that. So it's pretty easy to find out What this language is like and pretty easy to be to Wikipedia. So I'm just like If in general Wikipedia does not support having a page on Odin Then I think there's something wrong like that just indicates to me that this is not the repository of knowledge that I would want it to be Now granted You don't have to care what I want, but I'm just that's my feedback right like my feedback is that's really stupid

And also kind of of a part with other things that I've seen with Wikipedia where like in general I find that the information on Wikipedia could be a lot more accurate than it was if they didn't rely on this really stupid process Of always wanting like wired magazine to launder the information first Which is sort of like this game of telephone where it's guaranteed to be at least partially wrong And partially slanted by what the interviewer's like angle was at the time that they were writing the article and You know, this is just something that you know if you've been involved in something and then seen how it gets Laundered through the press and then into Wikipedia you're like this is not very good

And in an era where it's actually pretty easy for us to go to primary sources ask them questions Look at what people who are arguing about the thing are saying about it in real time It just seems antiquated right? It's sort of like it's like going back to it and cycle of pd of Britannica Model of doing things and just like it doesn't really make much sense to me The stinger came when Jimmy Wales was like Replied to me going like I didn't realize that there was a company that had written You know, it's it's it's it's software commercial software in this language Do you have a source for that and I'm like This is the problem Jimmy the problem is the sources are all around you like everyone knows that the people at Jenga fix them

Like the source is in the room with you and literally To his that tweet that Jimmy posted one of the founders of Jenga effects replies and goes we wrote the thing in Odin The fat like it's like the it's like Jimmy Wales replies to me the founder replies to him And so I'm like this is what I mean. It's like that should be the way that we Assess things is by looking at what the people are actually saying now Wikipedia's argument against this Is this very strange idea to me in a in a modern context like the reason that they don't like that idea is because they seem to think that having a Journalist in the loop makes it more likely to be accurate whereas the opposite is true in my in in my entire experience

Do people lie? Of course they do Are journalists more likely to report something accurate than the person who was actually involved? No even including the lies in my experience even including the people who lie right because oftentimes the journalist only checks The lies when the lies are not what the journalist was wanting to report right there. It's very it's like this It's a very ugly system currently the way we do media and it doesn't work very well in my opinion So pretending that it's adding a layer of like fault tolerance is backwards to me It's adding a layer of falsiness to the system So anyway, that was the whole that's the whole ordeal basically to this day I don't think Odin now has a Wikipedia page which is ridiculous and when it was brought up as well that like oh like newer languages

Like zig and things like that do you have Wikipedia pages the response sort of from Wikipedia was like well Maybe they shouldn't have one either right like it was like it was like I like that response kind of it was taken my toys and going home You know it was kind of like you know on the margin like maybe this has a few more references But their main thing was like it doesn't matter if some other language has it because maybe that language should be deleted too And we just haven't gotten to that yet right so like like in their opinion like put like what about this other article is not allowed on Wikipedia And that's maybe more reasonable But it also made me a little bit worried because I'm like

Does that mean the zig pages getting deleted next is the gy page apparently got merged with johns? Entry now for example like so like like what's gonna happen to these pages that in my opinion were valuable to people who didn't you know Don't necessarily have a centralized way to look up like what is You know one of these languages so I don't know it's just the whole thing kind of sucked in my opinion Not that I was a huge fan of Wikipedia But I would like them to maybe acknowledge that they need an update to the way things are being done because the most accurate information is now coming from the people doing it And they post a lot of things and you can use those things so a bias against primary sources seems bad

I have a question. I'm a resort. Oh go ahead trash. Of course. I'm not a big Wikipedia user But Back in my day, I thought anyone could just put anything on Wikipedia when when did they start enforcing like You can't put this on here because I remember We would just go on there and just like tweak someone's page and just to be funny Yeah, that's actually you would just say the history of just trash Trash Like literally right after you guys started doing that Trash you made you made them in the problem here Answer to this All right, so Odin doesn't have a Wikipedia page because of trash dev 10 years ago What does it cost them to have these like What is the purpose of deleting a page like isn't there a way to flag it saying hey, there's no

Media sources citing this therefore there could be you know incredible facts in here Which they do and they have that Those kind of like things were like this doesn't have enough references or the references may be unreliable And so the deleting of the page seems completely unnecessary to me. I completely agree with you Um, I don't know why they do that that's probably something where they're just like well We want to make sure that in general like they must believe that having a Wikipedia page confers some kind of And you know status on on people or things And so they're trying to preserve that and to me that just doesn't seem necessary because at least in my experience I've found so many Wikipedia pages on completely esoteric things that no one probably should care about um and that

I didn't suddenly think oh my god this thing is so much more important than what it was like I never have that like I'm just like yeah everything under the sun has a Wikipedia page so like Who cares, right? So it does seem like pretty Free for them to just leave the page up put a thing on top of it that says you know This needs more secondary sources for authentication or something and What's the problem, you know, but but in that you know in their mind that's not good enough I guess or you know, I'm not sure. I this one's a long shot of a joke. So just Okay, okay, just bear with me I just want to do a little table talk first about it before I go that it's a long shot and I'm aware before it fails

So we'll just pretend that I didn't say that though Like for a joke. Yeah, exactly Uh maybe a long run the joke. Yeah, well maybe. Yeah, we'll cut to commercial Um So my what if it's because they don't think jenga is a firm foundation Slow all right, there we go. So that's all right that was As I told you's a little long shot the guy who did the found found doors fun thing right now has like 12 better What's the matter? Sorry, I'm sorry Yeah, sorry continue. It's a fun game. There's not much to continue. I mean that's kind of I didn't I didn't know that to change about Wikipedia requiring or saying that there must be some sort of external source like wired because By that very definition if you don't take it from the person who's creating its mouth

But instead have it passed through a third party you are inherently Adding effectively noise to the signal which means that all Wikipedia has to be incorrect to some amount It's like telephone. Well, it's to be clear. Let me try and I mean, I'll try to do the best job I can representing Wikipedia here, which I don't like so I'm the wrong person to do it, but all right Come on Casey Wales tell me also co-founder. I would just add a slight Caviar there which is that there's two separate things here. There's two separate qualities that they're trying to assess One is accuracy of the information fine, and that's not really what we're talking about here So nobody was saying that the Odin page contained lies or something like that or or that it was you know

ill-conceiver that there is no programming language called Odin or that ginger bill is a secret figure with the CIA doing a Sci-op Ginger, but he's not really have red hair. Yeah, right. Oh really? No one was claiming those things That's true. That's true trash. It's true trash 100% true. No, that's he started it as a fake news thing I'm disappointed. I couldn't tell because he's bald Right I'm pretty sure he was bald when I met him So here's the thing what they're talking about is notability So Notability is trying to determine whether or not this thing should have a Wikipedia page now as Sorry He's not One you're right, but he is a ginger. We're just rolling you Okay, yeah I said it as a joke like to spread this information. He's like like there's no misinformation like yeah

Bill's not a ginger and you're just like he's not a ginger I don't know. I'm like, you know, all these people are watching. I don't want to be I don't be like always actually ginger. I don't know. I don't know If only you worked for wired magazine prime that would be authoritative really like yep So uh so basically then there's two separate things one is accuracy and the other is notability and so for accuracy You can actually go on to And there's and there's even a third thing which is bias so Wikipedia has all of those kind of in the mix So they they'll have like a source ranking like you know, let's take mother Jones magazine I think they're listing for that was that it is generally accurate but biased right

Um Now I don't know if I would agree with generally accurate, but let's say that that's a reasonable split It's like yeah, okay. They're definitely a bias magazine. They have a very specific point of view Maybe their fact checking is okay I don't know that I've thought it was fantastic, but whatever I don't think a lot of magazines things are are good fact checking so who knows by Wikipedia standards?

Maybe it is accurate So those things are not the the important part though Notability That's why they're trying to say we need these sort of secondary sources right And so for them Notability is basically like saying There's certain people whose opinions count for notability and certain people who don't Okay, and this is the part that I have the biggest problem with because accuracy is a separate issue that I wish they would also address But that's separate In my opinion YouTube Now is probably one of the most important places to gauge notability It's where people make their money like like YouTube sub-stack if you're still working for a like legacy News outlet then I don't even know like you're some boomer dinosaur like no no offense

But like know it I don't even use the same thing I see for a living calling you a boomer is amazing I'm the most I am the most I like Everyone knows that I generally will stick with something as long as it's working Like I can't imagine opening up the Washington Post to get your news in the morning That that to me feels like you would have to be utterly crazy to think that that was the most efficient way to assess what was going on When you can literally go find like people who are literally there at whatever the thing is that you're wondering about And you can go see what's going on for yourself. It's so weird, right?

It's like it's relying on third-hand information in an era where first-hand Information is so abundant that you can get every possible take on the thing that you might want in real time And yet somehow you're asking for it to be filtered through some person who couldn't get a job anywhere else So they're working at the Washington Post All they're doing is watching the same social media feed you are and is writing it up It's ridiculous to think that that's a thing right like it's forget it It's so funny seeing like the headlines of what everyone was talking about on X like two or three days ago show up And it's like exactly oh my goodness you guys will be a bit blah blah blah And it's like we were talking about that yesterday guys

And I got a better article by reading 30 people's tweets about it like totally and like it's just like okay, you know um Is someplace like a social media a bastion of accuracy? No, it's not like there's so much garbage on there, right But the bottom line is like that's actually where the best source of information is if you're actually trying to curate it properly, right It's gonna be way better than the filter feeder version of that which was it curated by people who have no idea about the subject domain Right, it's like someone who has no idea how to program hardly at all is gonna filter feed the like stuff that happens in programming Like somebody at wired magazine who knows like one hundredth of one percent of what any of us on the stand up their standard

Yeah, and like they're the ones who are supposed to filter feed this for it's like it's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense So well to meet I just checked. I don't have a Wikipedia page Yeah, well there's absurd, right? It's absurd. How do you have a how do you have a million subscribers of on something?

How is that not notable, right? I go in and delete it every time he tries And I'm like don't let this get to his head. He's got he's got a Wikipedia page Oh, now he's notable. He's showing up to the coffee shop saying yes order for the primogen. It's like it's too much for me So I do have this though. I do have a wiki tube page. Oh, what? Oh, what's that? That sounds not that's the wiki Well, as you can see it is It's just me looking terrible and it's just facts about me. So I do have a page It's just not the page that you know, I would choose So anyway, I don't manage that page To me, notability is should not like we now have much better ways of assessing notability like if you want to know what people are actually noticing

We literally have view counts like we literally have ways to like some rando at the New York Times should have no more Influence on what is notable than anyone else. They're just a random person And in my experience whenever I read articles in press anywhere about things I know about they're way They're there's like completely not knowledgeable like they are not what I would consider. That's called the turing test Well, it's actually called uh, it's called the gellman amnesia effect Oh, yeah, it's the gellman it's called the gellman amnesia effect It's man It was a man. Sorry gellman amnesia. I've never heard his name pronounced. It's but Murray gellman If you're gonna trust prime on pronunciation is crazy. It's g. You know, I'm telling it. It's it's it's m a n n

It's any problem. Yeah, gellman or gellman. I have no idea pronounce his name. Someone could go find out It was basically a thing coined by Michael Crichton like the guy who wrote Jurassic Park Uh, the andromeda strain right So that he gave a speech one time and he was basically just talking about I was either speech or interview I'm not sure which and he basically said like look um I have this thing where I you know, I'm involved in the entertainment business very heavily now And so when I read articles in the press about the entertainment industry I'm like they got this totally wrong like none like none of this is right like what's going on But for some reason when I go read like about you know

The the war in Iran I suddenly think for some reason that I'm reading actual information But I just had the and I just literally had it demonstrated to me on the previous page That they don't have any idea what they're talking about for something that I do know about so why would I think they know what they're talking about for this and The the reason he called it the the gellman and ebnesia effect is because I think he was a prominent physicist at the time And he was basically saying like look when that guy reads the science column He's like oh man. This is awful But then he flips the page and reads something else and thinks that that's news right but it's not It's just somebody who doesn't really know very much is attempt to summarize what happened and it's probably wrong

Right and so to me like we are at a point in time where we can start to move past that We have enough ability now to collect information from the people who are actually there We can find out from jenga effects as founders directly from on the record without going through a third party Do they think they wrote their code in Odin or not That to me is 10 times more interesting because I am believe in the founder All right, they're there so by they just want money good point And the same thing for notability do you want to know if primes notable go look at his YouTube look at how many comments Are on it look at how many millions of viewers are like that's it's notable True good point that trash done who cares what the New York Times thinks they're antiquated no one cares about that anymore

The New York Times is for games now they make most of their money selling you games. That's what they do right So yeah, if I wanted to know how to make a good crossword puzzle maybe I'd ask them if I want to know what's notable Forget it. They're old news. They're not interesting Dang I agree with everything you just said Casey all right Yeah, I will say I do want to throw out I think gelman amnesia also is playing a really pivotal role right now in LLM's All right gelman. It's gelman. I always call it gelman, but it could be gelman. I don't I don't actually know I like he's the gel man. Well, that's because dude jeez are very confusing. Is it GitHub or is it jithub?

I don't know is it gif or is it gif? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, but it's down Yes, I know But with LLM's you see these tweets happening all the time like dude They're so good at back end, but man, they're really bad at front end right and you're like yeah bro That's definitely what's happening. That's it's not it's not that you don't know what's happening on the back end It's that they're really good at it and you just simply only know things about the front end I In fact, it's very fantastic. It's pronounced gif. Okay. Nice Anyways, I had one other thing. I did I did want to propose a solution to Jimmy Wales about the Odin kind of fiasco here Which was if he's willing to trade Odin gets his own page

We will do everything in our power to remove the co and co-founder from his. I mean, it's like that's like a fair deal Ha We'll make it? We'll make a bargain Darian Jimmy open invitation Jimmy at let me know DM me we can figure this out We can solve this like adults will remove the co and co-founder and Gingerville can finally have his page. Okay Yep. There you go. There you go. I like him. Are we done with blockers? I think so, yeah, I'm unblocked now This is the question in which is exploding the internet now I'm positive that my find a co-hosts on Riverside.

Can't actually even see what I have on the page. So I'll read it just in case. The question that is dividing the internet, red or blue button. I read red and blue backwards, but that's because the image right here says red or blue. It's kind of confusing that it's blue or red and then right here is red.

That does seem like the AI didn't get the message. So to put it in here, so let me to read the exact tweet. Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who press the red button survive.

Which button do you press? Ooh, okay. I want to hear trash straight out the gate. I'm so interested in what trash would be. Well, I'll tell you how I approach these. I just don't think and I push one. Sick. That's good. There's no point. There's no reason to even think. I'll just go on this thing. Boom, boom.

That's a hate red. Okay. Red, red. So when I grew up, we would never buy things that were red, like a red lighter or get a red car because I would like, like if you drove a red car that drove, I think that brought more attention to you for the cops or something. Okay. So red's always been like a superstitious color.

So I'm just like, boom, that's all. That's my thought process there. Good question. That trash is that really it? So I just got done reading that potentially half the people on Earth will die. And your your response is, because cops will pull over red cars more. I press blue button. I'm going to have to rethink my answer now based on this.

That is literally what happened. Am I alive? I'm alive, right? Well, in this world. You are actually in the risky spot. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're you're kind of on a knife-sedge trash. Yeah, if I die quickly, it's fine. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's a good point. There's a lot of unknown still in this poll that I would like to know a little more info about.

People really always been allergic to red my whole life. Is that what it is? Sorry. All right. Okay. Why didn't they were switched to A or B trash? Would that affect it? I would pick B because my last name starts with B. Oh. Trash, for having such like a human pivotal answer poll, you have the dumbest reasons I've ever heard for picking I know it's because it's because these conversations deserve no thought process.

It's based. Okay. I'll take that. So I'm not going to stress like because ultimately it probably means nothing at the end of the day. So I'm very good at just like, dude, I'm not going to waste my brain cells on this. Boom. Easy answer. True. He's in the queue for Pokemon. He doesn't have time for this.

Yeah. That's a good point. I didn't get my Pokemon card. That's a yes. Sorry. He actually lost on the Pokemon queue. So he's not even in a queue anymore. He's just a loser. I feel like you have like VP potential trash because someone who's like, look, I don't choose Red or Blue. I have someone else choose Red or Blue for me.

Like, I feel like you have that like a very like down to earth business perspective here. I'm very good at just like a fine time to think about Red versus Blue. I wouldn't even, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today. Who cares? Blue. Yeah. Honestly, yes. Like I'm very good. Yeah. I like it. I like it.

I'm going to do it. All right. So how many people when they hear Red versus Blue, do you think of Halo? Me. Okay. Right here. I just show up. I was just like, I like Red versus Blue. Yep. I think of police immediately. Not Halo. I'm not saying I'll be like in Jail or anything. Pokemon cards. Yeah. Yeah.

We can't be driving red cars. Yeah. I have some opinions, but I think someone else should go. Casey, what is your, what is your opinions here? Well, this is a tough one because I think if you look at the two, so, so it depends on how much empathy you have, I guess is what I would say. What you're going to pick because as I think we just had demonstrated to us, you know that a lot of people are going to pick Blue for whatever reason.

Like do that's just a given, right? So the fact that if the entire world just everyone pushed Red, that would be the safest bet because we all know that we would survive and then no one would have to die because we'd all hit Red. What we know is a lot of people, including people we like, like trash, will pick Blue for some reason.

Hold on, hold on. I think I just zoned out on the, on the explanation of Red vs. Blue here. Is it yes? We know that. That's why you just said. No. I don't know. No, I don't know. I don't know. You are dead. You are going to be a part of this. Hold on. What can we go, can we rewind? Yes, we can. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the explanation? Whatever Casey's talking about, I have no recollection of at all. I have never been more disappointed in you ever because I've read it out nicely for you. No. You want to know why I stopped paying attention because you were saying button really weird and I was thinking about calling you loud on it and that's all I could think about.

He was like, he was like, blue or red button and he said, button like that. And then as soon as he said, button like that, I like completely stopped listening and I was like, I can't listen to that anymore. What's happening on the stand? Okay. Okay. Okay. Read the paragraph again. Am I saying button wrong?

You said button. You said it like that. But then you then you changed it. Like, can you say it again? Then you said it normal and then you said button again because you're trying to read really slow. So anyway, that's all I could think about. So that's really why I'm going to read it. Let me just read it to you again, trash just in case.

Okay. Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of the people press the blue button, only the people who press the red button survive. Which button would you press? Say, man, sir, it's fine.

Oh, you know, no, you never know what does that mean? What does that mean? Here, let me restate the question. Can I restate the question? I'm going to be honest. I stopped listening again and I just crashed. Let me restate the question. Yeah. I cannot pay attention. If more people push the blue button, everyone survives.

Thanos, let's write. No, trash. Hold on. It wasn't right. Just hold on. I can't pay attention to the whole thing. Listen to my, listen to the sound of my voice trash, okay? Everyone who presses the red button survives in any scenario. So if you press the red button, you survive. If you press the blue button, you only survive if more than 50% of the world presses the blue button.

That's the question. Which one do you push? Say that again. If you press the red button, you definitely survive. Always. Okay, that's fine. In all outcomes, if you press the blue button, you only survive if more than 50% of the people in the world press the blue button. Yeah, that was wrong with red.

Oh, you guys making me feel bad for pushing red. Yeah, pushing red. What? How did you? You were pushing blue before. Oh, shit. I did pick blue before. What? You're right. I completely forgot. I completely forgot. What? Oh, we got. Okay, okay. Sorry. I'm like all over the block. Okay. Yeah, we pushing red, dude.

I'm not scared. Yeah. You had a whole thing you were like, I don't ever push red because the cops kept me or whatever. I could pull over my car. I have no recollection of me saying that. So I'm sorry. I said I'm pushing red. You want to know why I kept like not listening is because my AirPods kept switching to my phone so that I fixed it.

And then my wife's in the bathroom outside my office and I heard her flush the toilet. So then I started like focusing on that. So I had to. That's bad. But I hope we're red. Red, red, red, red. Let's go. All right. All right. Thank you for that. All right. So Casey, in this red versus blue button situation, how would you proceed?

What I was trying to say before, but then circumstances. They have changed, but still the problem with the question right. Like I said, is I think a lot of people will push blue, even though the the easiest answer for humanity is everyone pushes red. That way you don't have to trust anybody and everyone survives, right?

The problem is a bunch of people will push blue for whatever reason. Either they're very scared of red like trash or they might interpret the question in a different way. They might interpret it even if they understand logically what's going on. They might be like, which world do I want to live in? Like a high trust world where we're all going to do what's best for everybody.

Or we're going to live in a world where I only do what's best for me. Right. And so, you know, that to me is the problem. Is it's like, you're kind of asking how much empathy does the person have if they logically understand the question. And then also how much empathy they have for people who don't understand the logic at all.

Because a bunch of people are just going to not have any idea what it means and think that they should push blue for some reason. And all those people are going to die if the if all the logical people just press red and inflate that number, right? So anyway, so I feel like it's a really hard question for that reason.

The obvious answer is just to push red if you're just motivated by self-preservation. And the answer if you're a very like empathetic kind of like just trying to save people who can't save themselves or who are irrationally scared of red because of the cops, then you want to push blue to try and help skew those numbers.

I don't honestly know what I would pick in this situation because I'm the kind of person who like would immediately just ask, who like what is this button connected to? Like how did you like like my immediate thought process is like, what is the circumstance? Like the reason I don't like these things like trolley problems and whatever is I'm like, they don't really get it anything about humans.

Because they're so fanciful that they that humans normal process of making decisions such as I need to get my Pokemon cards and my wife flush the toilet. And I don't like the color red, all of which are normal actual strategies for getting through life. They don't work when you have this weird thing that can't possibly exist. Like we don't even know how to build a button that kills only the blue button pushing people.

Like that's, you know, we don't have that, you know, or whatever. So I would say I don't know. I'd probably push red because I'm too scared that it will end up being red because the logical people will push red. And so I'm just doing myself to die and not really helping the blue people, but at the same time maybe that's what the other logical people are thinking too.

So if we all thought something else we could save the world, I don't know. That's all I got. I am, I can't believe there are so many thoughts there. Oh, trash. It's been zero. I read like a thousand different tweets about this. I've been, it's been fun hearing everybody's opinions about it. I didn't even think about any of them.

I just want to let you know we all knew there were zero thoughts going on. Yeah, I mean, like in my mind, if red is you survive, my assumption is most people want to live. But most people probably didn't quite understand that implication of it. Yeah, one of the interesting things was I saw a few people rerun the poll, but instead of it being framed this way, they framed it the other direction where they said, you and all the people in the world are standing above a giant woodchipper.

If more than 50% of you jump into it, it gets blocked. But if you don't jump in, you live. And then like the poll greatly shifted because people were like, well, I don't want to jump into a woodchipper. That seems stupid. Right. I can just stand right here. And so then it like completely flipped on some of my saw was like 75% chose like the red version now instead.

Because they were like, well, that's, that's dumb. I don't want to jump into a woodchipper. I literally read it as, do you want to live or maybe want to live? Well, right. So it was interesting because a lot of it felt like it comes down to the thing. Actually, what's funny going back to the thing with like the New York Times stuff is you can make polls give you whatever answer you want, depending on how you ask the question.

So if you ask the question in a way that frames it, that choosing blue shows that you're a high trust society. People would desire to live in high trust society and they picked blue. If you framed it the other way where it was, hey, I trust everyone that we're all going to pick red and not be really dumb.

And we're just going to pick red and survive. Then like the answer might have been flipped, right? Like where it's where you get the opposite answer. So it was very like that was one of the very interesting things was just talking about like framing of polls and like how that happens. And then also the other really weird thing.

Prime I don't know if you saw this as well. Like every poll ended up like 58 42 in favor of blue. So like everybody Mr. Beast has one with 250 4,000 votes and blues at 558. Yeah. The thing is is that there's no consequences to you voting here. This is all a great point trash. So people could just push blue just to intentionally skew these numbers.

So like you're going to ask me to trust all these people. So I see more virtuous like I don't know. I was I was the thing a lot of people are like see blue always wins blah blah blah for me like 58 42 on a poll with literally no like nobody's life is actually on the line. It is not actually a very conclusive result.

Other the other framing that was very interesting for a thought experiment was pressing the button for your family. So like do you press blue and then your whole families in the blue or red and your whole families in red right like your kids and your wife or whatever. Right. Right. Right. Right. Like because it was so funny when I was I showed Kaylene this last night to like I wanted to just see she's not online at all basically I was like hey what's what would be your answer to the poll she reads it.

And she's like wait should everyone just pick red like instantly that was her. She was like I don't understand what the big dilemma is and the internet's freaking out and it was very funny because I was like hold on there's 20 billion impressions going on right now about this conversation. To be fair though has she left anything in the sink recently no no I'm the sink deeper trash would be doing receipts trash would be his receipts I would be full at my house if he was taking photos ridiculous.

So I'm actually I'm I am on trashes initial side which is that I don't want to devote time or thought to this type of problem because it's not real because the fact that 25% of the people would jump into a woodshipper does not map to reality because if there was a legitimate woodshipper in front of you.

Yes we're going to be gears and people are going to be like I'm going to jump on that shit because we're all we're all jumping right. On the count of three guys. On the count of three guys. Not not a chance like right that number would be would be zero is my assumption. And so I know no the number would not be zero.

I would like to challenge that assertion and the reason for that is because because somebody will get out their cell phone. And start streaming live they're jump into the woodshipper. It'll be on kick for sure when that is the highest rated tiktok all of a sudden before they pull it down because it's effectively a snuff film.

Then all the influencers are like I've got to get to the woodshipper to like make sure that I get into it before they turn it off right. That will definitely happen so there will be some small percentage of influencers in the woodshipper other than that. But then I want to be like the influencers will be like dude I want to be with my with influencer in the woodshipper.

Yes so there'll be there'll be some portion of the populace who will be in the woodshipper for the likes. But everyone else I agree would stay on the cliff. Yeah so that's kind of my thought process which is if it's if it's displayed that way. It doesn't really it doesn't really you know there's just no way that any rational person even partially sane person would jump into the woodshipper.

Like I would expect the crazy guy on the street yelling at nobody would probably not jump into the woodshipper because he'd be like ah like nothing's terrifying right like just natural instincts would kick in at that point that you can even stop. And so but the greater one which is people arguing over is does this mean that if you don't vote blue you don't believe in like a high trust society.

I think I saw on one random YouTube video about someone being like well Plato and Socrates and Marcus Aralius would all vote for blue. Now whereas Hitler would vote for red because blah blah like ones individualistic words the other ones like we all move together as a society. But then you have to think like well what kind of society is it that we we would create in which people would automatically think we would all jump to our death.

Like to get like I just don't understand that as a society like as a society you would assume we go okay let's pick the best option what's the best option the guaranteed no death option. Well and I'd also add a chaser to that prime which is that in what universe are you imagining that there is a high trust society that we've created that nonetheless went through the trouble of building a giant death machine that presents people with a button records everyone to push the button and then kills all the people who push glue if not enough people pushed it.

Like that doesn't sound very high trust to me at all right like I don't know about that so they the two things can exist in the same universe right. And so that's another reason why it doesn't make very much this will be a Mr. Beast game though Mr. Beast games to there's going to be some like hey if every like you're guaranteed to go on.

You're so right I can't wait to I thought he was going to go right dude. I thought he was going to go somewhere and actually like he has to kill the people for real. Right some island in the middle of the Pacific that's just far enough away. Private island international waters he's got his own everyone signed the waiver and it's coming trash to to an internet year near you I'm sure unfortunately the other really interesting question that I thought was was does it like so okay so what if instead of 50% needed to press blue what if it was like 75% or like 85.

Like there's a really like where is the curve where you would step off and be like I don't think like if you were a blue presser. Like where would you step off and be like there ain't no way 97% of the people are picking blue also thinking then that you know less people are going to pick it because hilariously people are like well the odds are 50 50 I'm like you got that's not what works just because there's two choices that doesn't mean that it's 50 50.

So but when you switch the odds to being like oh you got to get 80% like at where is it like at where is it that people would step off the the blue train which is also really like an interesting thought experiment. Yeah so I don't know I put now I know the curve like how fast you die after 50 right is 55% enough to be like 100% of people pick red basically you know like.

Well we kind of know not because like in the woodshipper gruesome one it still only went 25% where you just say wow 25% of the people are just going to jump into a woodshipper like what like that okay. I actually refused to believe that one. It doesn't make sense like 25% of people are trolling on the internet.

I also kind of assumed that the the poll would be for people like if you're taking a poll and you have to press buttons we have this magical world. I was assuming it's people of sound mind you know it's like we're not asking a baby to press blue or red that doesn't make any sense. I thought they were going to be dispel from that because someone was like well what if your kids press blue I'm like how are my kids pressing the button.

That didn't seem like part of the original original equation these are one of these things I just was like the purge from my from my brain immediately. Okay then we can be like I feel like details details are things like I find one of the reasons I find these kinds of things so annoying like the trolley problem.

Is just because they just don't tell you anything humans don't make decisions by doing like first order Boolean logic. That's not like how it works. Maybe Sam Altman. He might but his company does it right like the AIs he's making are non-linear goblin mode you know what I'm saying. I really want to figure out this goblin mode business we got to we got to have a goblin mode episode where you get some good goblin stuff for us.

Yeah we'll think of that out this week. So I just feel like it's so dumb because it's just like it's it's pretending like you're trying to assess some aspect of human nature when really what you're doing is just purely masturbatory. It has nothing to do with human nature because the way that humans make decisions is a very like like in programming terms it's very floating point it's very non-linear.

It's very like there's a bunch of things that are all coming together to make decisions and it's not about like okay try to imagine a world in which you're on a trolley. The trolley can't be stopped you're not normally a trolley operator you're just somebody who like suddenly is the only person near the trolley controls.

You can somehow see two tracks ahead of you clearly enough to tell what's on each of them and you can tell that there's more people on one of the tracks than the other. And you're just like okay anyone who's ever been in a situation where shit got a control like a runaway trolley knows that you are just screaming and like pushing things randomly to try to get it to stop.

That's what's actually happening in human nature. Nobody is going like hmm like gosh what do you do Nigel what do you see up there on the second track are there more humans on the left one or the right one. It's like how did they get tied. Yeah who tied them there. That's fine the tying guy. What's going on yeah and like why are we talking about it so it's just it's so bad right.

I am reading through some of twitch chat and there are some people very bothered about us not picking blue okay. And the reason being is that why would we not want to try to save everybody's life well there's this thing called Darwin. You see and if we had a one where everyone pushed red then at least we know that like everyone is just making a minimally rational choice.

So I do think there's some argument to be said for it's like all right that's just it's not just that if you pick blue you're crossing your fingers and hoping that you end up in a high trust society. But also just want to live in a very rational society and that seems like is is equally valid choice here right it's like it's fine right like that just seems like a totally rational thing to do in that case it's sort of like asking like you know why do people sometimes want to go to war like yeah human nature is kind of messy.

You don't have to always pick the thing that seems the maximally pacifistic thing or something like that you might just be like yeah you know like self preservation is important to me. I think everyone should know well enough to push this button if people for some reason don't even want to have self preservation like they're not willing to push the red because they're just hoping everyone push blue it's like I don't like that like I don't want to live in that world I want to live in the world where everyone sense much rich red that seems totally fine with me.

Like I said I don't know which one I would push I think I said kind of before I really don't know but I think the case for blue is overblown right like suggesting that somehow that's like this perfectly virtuous thing to do it's just that just sounds very like fanciful to me because it's like okay you want to live in a world where people are pushing the blue button knowing that they're putting their lives at risk because you just think it's good for them to put their lives at risk in a thing where nothing happened.

There wasn't even like a good thing attached to it it wasn't like we all survive and we get a little more prosperity like there wasn't a chaser to it that was like and it's like it's just bad all you're doing is putting your life at risk for no benefit why do I want to encourage that behavior right so I don't know I think the case is overblown We also people saying if prime would think only what would see us Lewis do he'd push the blue button without a thought like I don't know if I can really say what somebody else would do it is very very confusing thing because the problem with this is that we have the problem that I have is that people have set up this this theoretical world in their mind that masses of amounts of people are pressing a blue button like I just don't it's not even about pressing in my head at least it's not about like oh either you

You're a good or bad person if you press red or blue and so some of the arguments are like oh the only logical choice is depressed the blue like the red button because there's plus 50% evil people like I don't think you're evil if you press the red button I'm just confused as to the point of all this being there is only one right answer well to Rephrase it as the woodshipper to it's like do you want to live in a world where a bunch of people are going to jump off a cliff into a woodshipper because they think it's virtuous that if they all do it together they won't die it's like no that's just that's just suggest to me that most of my time spent as a citizen in that world is going to be going around trying to convince people just to take

basic self precautions to keep themselves safe because they think that the way the world works is that everyone in the whole world is looking out for their safety all the time I don't really think that's a great way to go like I would rather people when presented with an easy way to make sure that they're okay that the only people it puts at risk is people who wouldn't make a similar choice like wouldn't put their own safety as as a primary concern for them which literally imperils nobody else except people who aren't willing to do that it just in a way I might almost cast blue pressers as selfish they're basically wanting the rest of the world to do their work for them right they're not willing to push red which is the sensible choice here

that doesn't require anyone else to do anything to ensure your safety but you're like no I would rather push the blue button and force everyone else to like put their personal safety on the line for nothing right nothing at all we get no gain it's just so that other people can feel good about pushing the blue button it feels selfish it feels a little bit selfish now that I'm thinking it through to push the blue button yeah I don't know I was actually thinking about a movie scenario where I get kidnapped by the blue people oh nice four hours up the finish voting they're like you have to push blue or we kill your family right now yeah or and they potentially I don't know that's what I was thinking about the past like 20 minutes if there was like some

sort of negative action associated with red as well like hey not only do you if you press red not only does this happen but it forces you know someone else to press blue and there must be 75% of people who press blue or out you know like then you're like okay well now you're you're creating a situation in which I'm hurting somebody else well another way to look at it like I said is attach some positive thing to the blue pushing right so in other words if you push red your guaranteed to live if you push blue you will only live more than 50% of the people push it but you will have increased prosperity like like there will be no more starvation like like there will be no more there will be no more food shortages in the world it'll just be you know everyone will be

able to eat food and live now I start to see the case now it does sound to me like okay if we live in a high-trust society we have this chance to do something beneficial but we all have to buy into it or a high percentage of us have to buy into it in order to make it work now that sounding more rational but the people who are making this case for the blue button as if it's somehow more virtuous seem to be in their head attaching a fake benefit to it but there is no benefit the only benefit is saving people who pushed blue for no reason that's the only benefit they all could have pushed red and all they're really doing is forcing you to be charitable for nothing right and again that just doesn't sound like

positive to me that doesn't sound like a positive outcome I still don't know like as like I said at the beginning when I was talking about what I would push I'm like I am worried about the fact that I think a lot of people will push blue this because of human nature so at that point you're kind of like gosh I don't want to kill all those people so I'm going to push blue but that's not because I thought it was virtuous that's just because I think people are doing something kind of dumb yes right so then that would be yes that is the sort of that's been my big like I've been going back and forth and by had a lot about it because you're like you feel like I don't I don't think pressing blue makes me

like a good person but it would be like in that I think there's a good chance a lot of other people do it and so I would prefer to save them over the other exactly alternative but like also it's also like do I get to talk to my kids and my wife first like you know like I get that it's a private vote and I can't know what the vote is going to be but like do I know like because if if my kids are going to push red then I want to push red to make sure I'm there to be able to take care of them you know what I mean like that would be the self-list thing to do in some way and if they push blue you might want to be pushing blue to increase the odds that they survive right and so yes you know if if someone's very like if someone's very like tribally oriented yeah they're going to want to

know what the other people and whatever their tribe is are doing because that may affect their you know their decision right that's totally a valid way to approach it as well yeah anyways I don't know this was this got a real deep I don't matter what though this was worth talking about just for the intro for this topic thank you so much for the internet really personally I think we could cut this entire conversation except for the trash part that's almost what I was in it like that's funnier it was the only like basically like the clip for this show should just be that trash part because it was amazing and the reasoning was so much better like in all honesty that's way better reasoning than any of the like any of this other stuff it's just because it's

like I said I think these kind of questions are totally masturbatory they have nothing to do with what people would actually do in a real scenario that presented them with a choice that you know as similar as the choices you could get to this which is pretty far fetched to begin with I love the thing it's like like I hate red I'm pushing blue yeah that's so good it's so good I also missed the whole explanation too you missed it twice that's on you just like a time to miss it the second time and because I'm saying button because because you're saying but I had excuses for the second yeah excuses guys also I will say trash you doing that made me think dang I really have to press blue you know it's like okay fine I there's good and I'll maybe see you later

honestly I'll be it is true the trash has done more for me pressing blue than anything else has I don't have anything else great episode of the standup was it yeah I managed to trash maybe thanks to trash yeah that's great the Wikipedia stuff I had no idea about that I thought we I see I was under the same impression that trash was was that anyone could edit it and there's just like some sort of ownership of whoever was the first person no no no some sort of there's like a pharmacist I'm going on it's more Wikipedia is more like an aristocracy there's like certain editors who are like you know have the official Wikipedia power and they go around just doing stuff and if they don't like your language or your politics or your whatever the page

is about then you just have not there's nothing you can do about it it's they just read a wired article that changed the page see actually no look you can game the system you absolutely can if you have access to the meat wire says that the bible's not going to get a job to historically accurate so therefore to bring that to bring this back to programming that's like one of my favorite stories from vegan where he wanted it this was when he was on his ruby on rails era you really wanted to patch the global string class to like do some fun stuff for them to make some I don't know to make something more elegant or whatever and the the coder viewer was like bro we are not patching the string global that's crazy so vegan one home different account makes a ruby gem

publishes the ruby gem goes back to work adds the ruby gem as a dependency nobody reads dependencies check it's in he got exactly what he was looking for that's the Wikipedia strategy guys get a quick job at wired you can be notable yep I do like that by the way if anyone from wired wants to write a quick article so I get a Wikipedia page notable red button pusher the primogen yeah right yeah yep also we didn't even address whole color blind people like that could be very dangerous if it's a dark enough shade of blue like that could really be a dangerous place where it can we get a wired article that's like the you the YouTube personality who told his million followers to press the red button yeah there we go yeah noted missin through the primogen that's because it's really

easy to do a thoughtful masturbation as Casey would say it it's just it's so masterful I hate those I hate them so much I hate these red blood the red blue button question I hate the trolley problem all of these things are just so bad and I'm just like don't just don't like just stop only you can prevent masturbatory philosophical nonsense kids is that smoking the bear reference yeah smoke you the bear smoke you the philosopher yeah like smoke you the philosopher he he heads down to the head shop and he buys like some stiff stiff weed and he just like makes this shit up right like he's just like oh man what if there were like two buttons and like everyone in the world had to like push one like shut shut up just shut up you are so wasting everyone's time

with this crap oh that's when I go I hate red bro all right well trash's answer is the only valid answer the trash's answer is the only valid answer no thought should be given we're sorry for bringing I'm usually I'll bring it back up to be honest bye bye bye you

The Wikipedia Odin Controversy and the Red Button Dilemma

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