You're Fighting the Wrong Battles With Your Kids (Here's How to Stop) #104

0:00Jon @WholeParent Hey, welcome back to the Whole Parent Podcast. Today we're talking about one of the hardest parts of parenting, which is knowing when to hold the line and when to just kind of let things go. A lot of people call this boundaries. We hear so much about boundaries. Be consistent, don't give in. If you say no, you gotta mean it, right?

0:17Jon @WholeParent And a lot of that can sound like useful advice. In fact, it is can be useful. But when we take that too far, it turns parenting into this endless series of power struggles where suddenly you're fighting 20-minute battles over like whether they should be allowed to have cereal at bedtime, and you're not really even sure whether you care about these things.

0:38Jon @WholeParent So here's the distinction that we're making in this episode. Good parenting is not about proving to your child that you are in charge. It's about creating enough clarity and predictability that your child knows where the real boundaries are, the boundaries that are there for their safety and for their flourishing, and then giving them freedom and autonomy and agency in places where the battles just aren't necessary.

1:02Jon @WholeParent Some things are going to be non-negotiable. We're talking about that in this episode. Safety is going to be one of them, but other things, like granting autonomy, is often like the healthier choice. So that's fundamentally different than letting your child like scream until you finally give in to what they want.

1:17Jon @WholeParent That's not healthy parenting. It's not good for them. It's not good for you. And in this episode, we're going to start with a bedtime situation that spiraled completely out of control, just because like one parent isn't the one doing it and the kids having a hard time with that. We're going to move into food during bedtime battles because that conversation gets to the heart of something that I think a lot of parents need to hit here, which is ultimately that you don't have to die on every single hill.

1:40Jon @WholeParent This again is an episode that is sharing conversations from Parent Lab Group Coaching. You can find out more about Parent Lab in the description for this episode. If you want to be on these group coaching calls, you can be. Okay. Well, the reason I ask is because if it's hey, this happens. So this happens to my wife sometimes.

4:18Jon @WholeParent Um, and it's it's kind of the same situation, but it's only happening like I'm only not around for bedtime maybe once a m I once a month would be a lot, probably like eight times a year, nine times a year. And if it's really that infrequent, then I say just wait it out. Because it's not worth the transition to get to the point of like this is working for one person.

4:41Jon @WholeParent But but as siblings is gonna come out next year and we're kind of getting ready for hey, this actually might be something that has to happen multiple times a week, right? We are gonna make some changes too. And so here I'm gonna I'm gonna lay out how I think that this is best accomplished. First, I'll tell you why I think this is happening.

4:59Jon @WholeParent Um I think it's happening is a combination of two things. The first thing is that is restraint collapse. Kids are the the hardest for the person who they feel the most connected to or the most safe with is probably the better term. Um and I'm not saying that your kids don't feel safe with your husband.

5:14Jon @WholeParent I'm just saying that for for you, they know that they can, for lack of a better term, get away with this because they know that you're unconditionally gonna love them and and care about them.

5:23 Oh yeah, I've asked them before why, and they're like, it's because we know that you won't get mad at us.

5:27Jon @WholeParent We know that you won't get mad at us, right? So so there is that aspect of it, and I don't think that the solution is then get mad. In fact, right now the solution is that you are getting mad. That is the solution. Like that's that's where we're at. The difference is for your husband, they think or they they they have the perception that they'll get he'll get mad quicker.

5:47Jon @WholeParent You they have more more lead before they before they come up short on the on the you know on the reins. And and what you gotta do in these cases is just find a way, I mean if it's in the temporary, if this is like no, I just need to get through one, turn the whole thing into a big game, do the best you can, make it very goofy, and this is what my wife does.

6:11Jon @WholeParent She just makes it really goofy, she turns the whole thing into a big game. It happens once a month, maybe not even, and it's fine. We survive that night, right? You embrace the suck for one night, it's not that big of a deal. If I think multiple times a week, then that cannot be the solution anymore.

6:26Jon @WholeParent And I think then the solution becomes that uh what I would do is I would actually have you do bedtime for like a week straight, which is I know just like or or every other night, switch off where one person does bedtime for everybody every night. And uh literally the other person just leaves the house.

6:47Jon @WholeParent Like run to the store, go grocery shopping, do something else. But create predictability with the that that is going to be one person doing bedtime. And then once the kids get accustomed to that reality, they're much less likely to push back and fight. My guess is you're the the ones who are instigating the chaos are the ones who are most can or most used to your husband being the one to do it.

7:11Jon @WholeParent It's not the same. Yeah, it is, right? It's not the other kid, it's the ones who are being thrown out of routine that are or who feel like they're out of routine that are the ones who are going, oh, well, I don't have to do what I normally do, versus like the critical mass is moving towards bedtime, and then the little one just kind of goes along with it because it's following your husband.

7:31Jon @WholeParent So that's another aspect to this, right? If your husband is doing the one that that has the most um the propensity to go off the rails, then actually for them it's normal on those nights. It's abnormal for the kid who's more likely to go along to get along. So I would, I would, I would say every other night you do bedtime for everybody and you establish a bedtime routine, and I know that you've already done this, but establish a new bedtime routine, reset, establish a new bedtime routine that you do that can be fun.

8:01Jon @WholeParent There can be fun elements that don't make it like horrible, but just make it brutally consistent. Make it like, hey, this is gonna happen, then this is gonna happen, then this is gonna happen. And don't give them any lead lead within that. There can be all of this autonomy in life, but there does not have to be any autonomy when it comes to bedtime because that autonomy is creating these kind of like everything gets pulled apart.

8:25Jon @WholeParent Now, if you have a kid who's like obstinately, you know, demand avoidant, then you need them to be bought in and build the routine. Like there could actually be autonomy and agency in building the routine, but then you become the ultimate, like, you know, it's like it's like uh the Congress makes the laws and then the the judiciary uh upholds the laws, right?

8:47Jon @WholeParent So you they can be Congress, they can make the laws, but you as the judiciary need to maintain the laws. I almost never say that kids should be or parents should be judges, right? I like in every way, in all of my books, I'm always resist the urge to judge, resist the urge to judge. But in this case, it's just enforcing.

9:03Jon @WholeParent Hey, you said this was the next step on the bedtime routine, then that is the next step. That's it. And the clarity that that brings to them is actually what's regulating. It's not the bedtime routine itself, it's the clarity that that bedtime routine brings when you are just brutally consistent on these things.

9:21Jon @WholeParent And understand that they are waiting for you to lose it because you losing it is stimulating. So you you can't lose it, but also you need to be able to like if you do, then you kind of you're you're reinforcing the wrong thing. You're giving energy to the wrong thing, you're giving food and water to the wrong the weed instead of to the plant that you're trying to grow.

9:44Jon @WholeParent Instead, really put all of your energy towards getting them moving and then be excited. Be like, give them the most attention when they're doing the thing that they should be doing. That is by far the easiest way to get kids to move in the right direction, is just to give them the attention that they're looking for when they're doing the right thing.

10:00Jon @WholeParent Oh my gosh, you're brushing your teeth. One kid goes running off and doesn't want to brush their teeth. Don't follow them. Like focus on the kid who's brushing their teeth and be like, oh my gosh, this is so great. You're brushing your teeth. Oh, well, should we play a game while you're brushing your teeth?

10:12Jon @WholeParent Like, make it fun. And then, okay, now it's time to read our story. And then the other kid comes up and is like, I want to read the story. He's like, No, no, no, you gotta go brush your teeth. You you can't get you don't get to step three until you do step two. No, I want to brush my teeth, I don't I don't want to brush my teeth, I want to do this right now.

10:24Jon @WholeParent You're you're gonna miss part of this because you gotta brush your teeth. So you go get your toothbrush, toothbrush, toothpaste, come bring it in here. I'll brush your teeth really fast, and then you can go back and spit and everything. But you're gonna miss out, you know, a page or two of the story here.

10:37Jon @WholeParent That's okay. You're just giving attention to the thing that you want to see. And over time, and this is not gonna be like a long time, this is gonna be over a couple days, right? If you can do this a couple days in a row or you know, one day on, one day off. I I think ideally you do this like five days in a row and just get it over with.

10:55Jon @WholeParent But you do this like five days in a row and all of a sudden the kids are like, oh, mom puts us to bed sometimes. Instead of like, oh, today is a different day where everything gets to change because dad's not here, they it just becomes, oh, this is a mom day. And mom days and dad days, it's not dad days and not dad days, it's dad days and mom days.

11:13Jon @WholeParent And and those may be a little different, but ultimately both of them are consistent and understandable. And once your kids get to that point where they just accept that this is gonna be something that you do and that this is gonna be part of it for you, you're gonna realize very quickly how amenable they are to that type of that type of response.

11:33Jon @WholeParent And you don't have to be mean and you don't have to be harsh, you just have to be consistent. And that consistency can look like not feeding the chaos. And I think what most parents get into is as the chaos starts spiraling, it requires more and more of them, which actually is what the kid is looking for.

11:51Jon @WholeParent They're looking for more and more attention, they're looking for more and more stimulation because their brain is winding down, they're like ready to get go to bed, and they're like, I but I don't want to go to bed, I need something to stimulate me. And then they use us to stimulate themselves. I mean, again, this is not conscious thought.

12:04Jon @WholeParent This is totally subconscious happening below the surface. But in their the in secretly deep buried in their subconscious, they are thinking to themselves, oh, this is very this is a lot of fun. And you, I mean, you remember staying up late with your friends. Maybe you still do with your husband occasionally, right?

12:19Jon @WholeParent Stay up until 1 a.m., 2 a.m. and everything gets really funny, and everything is really fun. Yeah, that's that's like an hour into bedtime for your kids. So they're so they're like looking at this and they're like, oh, every the this is our one night where we get to have fun, instead of like, no, this is just like every other night.

12:37Jon @WholeParent And if you want to have fun, that's different. Actually, this is one of the things that I d have done. We let my oldest stay up until as late as he wants on New Year's Eve. And because one day does not matter at all in the grand scheme of development. One day has zero impact. One day a month doesn't matter.

12:54Jon @WholeParent And so we let him stay up as late as he wants on New Year's Eve. And it's crazy how when he wants to stay up late, all I have to say is, ah, but it's not New Year's Eve. And he's just like, ah, you're right. Okay, I'll go to bed. And it's like, wait, it's as long as I give you this release valve once a year, you're okay with this.

13:14Jon @WholeParent And maybe other kids wouldn't be. But for him, he's like, Yeah, I mean, you let me stay up as late as I want once a year, that's fine. That's what you have to create. Create the conditions where they want to be fun and silly and slap happy, that's fine, but we're not gonna do that every night. That's gonna be that it's not just mom is doing bedtime, therefore.

13:32Jon @WholeParent That's something that's fun and that we do it intentionally, not something that we fall into every time mom is around. Does that make sense?

13:40 Yeah, totally. And I think I mean, like, it's like I try to be uh hold the boundary or whatever, but then it just gets so crazy and chaotic, because then it's like there's all these tears and like, but I didn't brush my teeth. Like, well, I'm sorry, but then it's like it's just hard to hold keep holding the boundary when everyone is something like fine, fine, just haven't read the book.

13:59 You know, it's like because it's like you just are trying to like survive.

14:01Jon @WholeParent No, and that's why I said if this was happening once a month, I would just say survive. I wouldn't say change everything. But if this is happening twice a week, then at that point I go, then at that point I go, okay, so you can't there's almost been too much ambiguity in the bedtime routine with you that now you have to reset it because you're like it's like working backwards.

14:24Jon @WholeParent It's almost better to just start over a new bedtime routine when mom is doing all the kids. Hey, I don't know what you do with dad, but but let's make a plan for what you do with me. Let's make a plan for what's fun with mom. Oh, well, can we do this thing that dad doesn't let us do? Hey, that's that's between you and your husband and your kids.

14:38Jon @WholeParent Like I'm not saying yes or no, but I'm saying that might be that might be a useful tool. Yeah, we can have cereal night with mom or whatever. Like whatever the thing is that you do to make it unique to you, that can be for you. And then you reset the bedtime routine. And then there's not an expectation that you're gonna bend or break on these things because they've never tried this new routine before.

14:57Jon @WholeParent They're waiting to see what it's like. And it's after that new routine becomes consistent, then then you can really reset it. Does that make sense?

15:05 Okay, yeah, sounds good. I'll try that later.

15:16 Um, sorry, our question is around this little guy. A plate. A plate. Um, yeah, it's half midnight here at the moment, and um, we've been having struggles since about eight o'clock at night when we're trying to get them to bed.

15:37Jon @WholeParent Yep.

15:38 Um anyway, um our struggle at the moment is around eating so dinner and breakfast. Um we're struggling with getting to eat when it's time to eat. Um, so we're pretty flexible with eating times in terms of like we don't force them to sit at the table to eat. Both um Eldest has ADHD and autism, and we're pretty sure he's just as spicy.

16:06 Um, so they like to roam and walk around when they're eating breakfast time. We usually just from the get-go, when we wake up, we have our set routine and the checklist that they have to get through before they can do any kind of play. Um, and what we're finding is both at breakfast and dinner time, when once that window's closed, he usually does eat during that time.

16:31 But as soon as it's time to either go to bed or um go to the car to go to daycare or whatever, it's I'm hungry. I want a bowl of rice bubbles. Like so, we do say you've got options like for bedtime where like you can have an up and go, which is I don't know if you have them there, like the breakfast drinks.

16:51Jon @WholeParent Yeah, yeah.

16:51 Um, which is essentially a meal in a drink. Um, so because we say you can have an up and go or a cup of milk, um, or you can have a muffin if we're going in the car, sure type thing. But he just is absolutely adamant and screaming the house down. I want whatever it is he wants that isn't practical to eat at the moment.

17:13 Tonight it was to the point where I actually timed the meltdown and lasted 40 minutes, and I'm sitting there going, why didn't I just give him the freaking rice bubbles? Because he probably would be asleep by now.

17:27Jon @WholeParent Totally.

17:28 But at the same time, I don't want to then reward that behavior and then him learn, well, it all it takes is 20, 30 minutes of screaming and mum and dad will change their mind. Right.

17:38Jon @WholeParent Um, so yeah, so so here's here's like I think we can approach this from two different directions. First thing is to say, he's already learned that there is an association between uh I can use eating to push bedtime back. And that's actually a really or or push leaving back. That's actually a really common thing that kids do.

17:59Jon @WholeParent And the reason why kids do it's pretty simple. Um leaving and bedtime are boring. And so they're but because they are not as stimulated, they are more in tune with their bodily sensations. This is of course again, not to pathologize anybody, but this is more common among ADHD kids, especially um because they don't even really notice that they're hungry when they're actively engaged in other things.

18:26Jon @WholeParent And so the key is actually to to just kind of be more boring around meals and essentially say, like, hey, this needs to happen before, you know, if you're done eating, then you're done eating. That's fine. I'm not gonna like force you, but also like this is when this takes place. Um, and then you know, we're not you know, we can do one thing at bedtime, but like that it can be this it's gonna be the same thing at bedtime every time.

18:53Jon @WholeParent So that's actually what I get.

18:54 How do you impl yeah how do you actually implement that? Because in the mornings it's like we're always saying, check your job job list. Um, no, don't play. And so we're just chasing him all the time and he's running away and playing and doing something else. Right. Rather than like, I'm like, look at your jobs, what's next?

19:13Jon @WholeParent Yeah, it's it's just it's it's really challenging because it's like as soon as the jobs are over, then he feels like he has freedom, and then that freedom is acted out in like like one of the things that I say all the time on group coaching is the the three things that you can't make a person do, you can't make them eat, you can't make them sleep, and you can't make them poop, right?

19:33Jon @WholeParent And so where where do the three most common toddler behaviors for autonomy-seeking behaviors come out?

19:39unknown Uh-huh.

19:40Jon @WholeParent Picky eating, fighting bedtime, and potty training in general. Right? So the reason that those places are those places in some ways are because uh kids feel this sense, they know this is a place where I can push back. The the key is to say, like, yeah, you don't have to eat what you don't want to eat.

19:59Jon @WholeParent You don't have to eat, you know, et cetera, et cetera. You don't you we don't have to create uh unhealthy uh views of fe food. But at the same time we can say, hey, there is a time for this and there is a time for for this. And we can just say, we can put on a thing like foods that you can make a chart, foods that you can eat as a as a bedtime snack.

20:20Jon @WholeParent And you have the the up and go is that's what it's called on the the energy or the the the like breakfast drink. Or you have whatever it is, right? You have you have the and maybe it's maybe maybe it is like, hey, we're just gonna give them a bowl of cereal every night before bed. We're just gonna give them a bowl of oatmeal before night every uh like we're just gonna agree that this is not the battle to fight.

24:09Jon @WholeParent And we're just gonna put it on the list. What I do for my 10-year-old is actually funny. I I actually say uh you can eat with the family or you know, around dinner time. You don't have to like sit down and eat. I don't do that either. I'm not like a big you have to sit down and eat. I think I will do that when I'm when my kids are older for sure, but I don't do it now because it's just like so sometimes my kids want to eat at 3 30 p.m.

24:29Jon @WholeParent and that like they want to eat their dinner then and I'm just gonna give it to them and I'm not, but I'm not eating then, right? So I don't I don't like force them into that box. But um my rule of my 10-year-old is if you forget to eat, which he frequently forgets to eat, dinner, because he's like playing or he's doing all these other autonomy stimulating things.

24:45Jon @WholeParent So if you forget to eat, then I pick what you eat. If you want to cook at at 8 p.m. If you want to fight me on I'm hungry, I'm hungry, I'm hungry at 8 p.m., I'm picking what you eat. And I'll be kind, I'm not gonna be mean, but like if it's reheated what we had for dinner, like that's that's the bowl, and there's there is no complaining.

25:03Jon @WholeParent You're either hungry enough to eat this or you're not. That's it. And now I would not be like that at 6 p.m. If you was like, ah, I'm just really not in the mood for this today, I'd probably be more like, all right, well, then what can you make yourself? What can you know, how can we work together so that we can, you know, how you can you still be can you still try it?

25:20Jon @WholeParent Can you still be kind about refusal? How do we refuse something kindly? Like we can do all that training, but at 8 p.m., look, you have made the decision that you autonomously decided that you didn't want to eat dinner at dinner, but now that like you you've you've kind of exhausted that. So now you get an apple and peanut butter and and you know leftover pasta and that's it.

25:42Jon @WholeParent And and I don't want I I I will not listen to the protests of I will listen to the protests of I'm still hungry, I want more food, but I will not listen to the protest of I don't like it at that point. And that was a hard transition. It was about a week transition to getting to that point where he doesn't get to decide on his five course meal at 8 p.m.

25:59Jon @WholeParent But like that was a hard and fast I I I just kept repeating, hey, I will give you food now, but I will not like we are not going to go through this thing. And then we you know at 6 p.m I reminded him, hey, just so you know I'm gonna pick what you eat at eight if you aren't eating now I'm gonna pick what you eat at eight and I line him up for that so that he's well aware.

26:19Jon @WholeParent That said there is a case to be made that this is just not the hill to die on. And I think that that's a reasonable case. Especially if you have other comorbidities going on and you're already struggling with chores over here, you're already struggling with this or you're dealing with potty training or whatever that I'm just not going to make food a hill to die on.

26:45Jon @WholeParent I'm just going to give in on this thing but I'm not gonna I'm gonna set myself up as best as possible. I'm gonna ask that question 30 minutes before bedtime the f you know the new bedtime routine is going to start with snack. Like right I'm just gonna build it in and the assumption that it's gonna happen.

27:03Jon @WholeParent But I'm just not going to fight this battle. And I think that that is not an unreasonable perspective to take. It is not as though if you lose one power struggle battle against your kids, you've lost the day. Right? You g they've gained ground and now they're not gonna give ground on anything else. Quite the opposite.

27:24Jon @WholeParent If you give them a place where they feel like they have that autonomy and whatever then and and agency then you just don't have to and and I think food is one of the places where in general I am much more willing to give ground and just surrender to a lot of that. And the reason for that is how how quickly does this become forcing a kid to eat because you're worried that they're not they're gonna be hungry later and then they're not listening to their body signals or forcing a kid to like have something that they don't want.

27:55Jon @WholeParent Or like like all of a sudden like because food is this place where we already potentially and I I would think that this is especially true of girls. Food is already this place where you you have these potential things down the road for eating disorders etc this is probably not the place where I'm gonna plant my flag and go unquestioning component much less so than what we just talked about with Allison where it's like if my kid's being unsafe in the middle seat like I'm planting my flag that like that like that's an easy place for me to plant my flag and go I give no I give no ground here.

28:30Jon @WholeParent But I would say with food you can do what I'm saying and I I'm not I'm not saying it wouldn't work. I'm saying if you are looking for the permission to say this is just not a place to to fight the battle and if I just give the rice puffs or whatever like this would have been over and he would have been asleep at eight okay like that that the you didn't ruin all of your parenting because you made that choice.

28:55Jon @WholeParent I I I think it's that old school that if I give in they win mindset which isn't very healthy but it it's still that like but then they'll learn that they just need to throw a tantrum and they'll get what they want and well the alternative to that mindset is yeah that is true if they throw a tantrum but if you just give in before they throw a tantrum if you just say this is not a hill that I'm dying on then they're not learning the lesson that if I throw a tantrum then I get my way.

29:29Jon @WholeParent They're learning the lesson that this is a place in which I am being granted that autonomy. That's a fundamentally different thing right like it's a fundamentally different thing to say to say oh well if I if I throw a fit and if I melt down enough then I'll get my way versus just if I ask for this I know that I'm always allowed to like a great example of this is I I had a person who I used to hang out with um because we had kids similar age and she was like I'm trying to prepare my kids to be like you know responsible adults and I want them to you know be responsible for their own things.

30:00Jon @WholeParent If they forget a coat then they're gonna be cold and I was like yeah I mean generally I I agree with that if it's like 60 degrees you know if they forget a sweatshirt they're just gonna be cold that's fine. You know or if they jump in a puddle their feet are just going to be wet for the next half hour.

30:12Jon @WholeParent Yeah I mean like if it's if it's like you know reasonable temperature outside and their feet can just be wet and then they can't use their shoes later that day because they jumped in a puddle when you told them not to and just suffer the net the consequences of that. Yeah yeah I agree with that. Then she would just be like yeah and that's why if she doesn't bring a water bottle on a hike I'm just like she can't have mine.

30:29Jon @WholeParent And I was like okay so we're that's a weird one for me because now we're like especially when the mom is like we're going on a two mile hike and it's 96 degrees and this literally was when it happened and I was like can I give her water out of my water bottle and she's like no she'll not learn and I was like okay but she also might like get dehydrated.

30:46Jon @WholeParent So so like there's a there are certain things where I'm just like I'm never gonna deny my kids water. Yeah I'm gonna let I'm gonna let them suffer the consequences of many actions but forgetting their water is not one of them. Like I'm just gonna let my kids suffer the consequences of not wearing sunscreen.

31:01Jon @WholeParent I'm not like I'm probably like I'm not gonna let them suffer with that pain. What I'm gonna say is hey you got to keep this shirt on or you got to you know we got to go back to the car that's the consequence is that we leave the beach if you can't put on sunscreen. The consequence is not I'm gonna let you get burned to a crisp.

31:16Jon @WholeParent And so that's where I think we have to be willing to kind of do these things and and shift here. And does that make like like if you give an inch you're not giving a mile yeah but but at the same time you do like you you are balancing some things and and I think that that's okay.

31:34 Does it um do you think it'd help for the mornings because we've got that deadline of needing to leave the house. Yeah we can't really just give him and give him more food when we're gonna be late um just having those options of like these are our to go foods the up and go with the muffin and you can have it in the car.

31:53 Yeah I I used to say that I was thinking of putting like a countdown timer on to say this is your window for eating and just reminding him both great options the timer like your windows getting closed after that it's only these options. Both are good I didn't want to put pressure on him because I remember you said don't do that at bedtime because they're like Yeah they start panicking.

32:15Jon @WholeParent No I yeah I think it's different when you're for before school is a different type of pressure. That's okay. Being on time for things is like a good skill. Forcing yourself to go to sleep at night a little different right biologically. But um but yeah I would say both of those are good options. That's totally acceptable.

32:32Jon @WholeParent I did have a period in my life when I had two kids under two where I did not try and put their shoes on until we were in the car. I put their shoes in the car with them and I brought food for them I did not try I didn't try and make them eat breakfast and I didn't try and put their shoes on. I just didn't I was like these are two things that I know take me 15 to 20 minutes if I do them or I can just prep these things ahead of time and then I don't have to fight with them for 15 or 20 minutes and it was just again I chose the hill that I was going to die on.

33:01Jon @WholeParent And I don't I just think we can hold our kids accountable and also not fight frivolous battles. I think that these two things are not mutually exclusive.

33:12 Yeah well we have days where we're spoon feeding both our kids who are four and almost six it's ridiculous they can feed themselves but we're like this is how you're gonna have some autonomy I have a few minutes okay you won't be 20 and making me spoon feed you.

33:31Jon @WholeParent And they won't and they won't and they won't okay they won't there are certain circumstances where we can allow for certain things. We do not create little monsters the truth is the people who create the monsters are the ones who teach their kids to repress all these things and then things come out in unhealthy ways.

33:50 Yeah.

33:51Jon @WholeParent John I'm I'm um yeah you guys got it. Good luck tonight.

33:55 John take it away hey thanks um so my five year old in the garden she comes home and we normally give her free time but one day a week she has dance and it's kind of chaos so I'm and I'm looking I think I have two options I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are. So she comes home and it's rush rush rush to get to dance like quickly get dressed quickly go to the bathroom quickly get a smack leave the house and we're still late yep if everything's perfect we're still late yeah um and it's never perfect.

34:31 So like last time we were 15 minutes late for 45 minute class then when she's in the class yeah and then when she's in the class she's coming out of the class every like the two weeks ago it was bad. It was like every five ten minutes she was just coming out to see me and then last week it was maybe 10 or so minutes she was in.

34:56 And so I asked her like why are you not enjoying it? Because she so there's that class and then there's one directly after another 45 minutes.

35:04Jon @WholeParent Sure.

35:05 So I asked her like are you just not enjoying it because we don't have to do this. Like we we start you up because we thought you enjoyed it.

35:12Jon @WholeParent Yeah.

35:13 And she's like no no I really do enjoy it. But then she still won't say right she kind of the most I could get out of her was I enjoy it but sometimes they do things I don't want to do.

35:23Jon @WholeParent Yeah. Yeah.

35:25 I feel like I have two choices either just to be like it's fine like it's up to you. This is your class and I don't care. Another thing that I got a bit annoyed with last time was for the second class she spent a good portion of it like 20 minutes watching a girl who wasn't in the class on her iPad and I was just like I could just buy you a tablet and save the money and you could just have tablet time if that's really what you want.

35:51 Um so like I I feel like I can either take out the class and just be like no or just be like this is your class you can do whatever you want or like hold the boundary and be like okay if you leave we're just going home yeah I think I think the the the least desirable in my view of those three options is she stays in the class and does whatever she wants.

36:17Jon @WholeParent I think that it is both acceptable and understandable for her to not like what's going on and then also still have to do it if she's going to be in the class.

36:30 Okay.

36:31Jon @WholeParent Like I think I I think that that's okay. And then you can have a fr you can have a conversation of hey part of being in this class is doing things we don't want to do sometimes. Like part of you get to the fun through these ways. Right? Like this is this is about hard one wins. Um and then I would look at but but but at the same time the class is not at a time that is really setting her up for success either.

36:58Jon @WholeParent Yeah I know that and and that's and that's like that's like part of this too. Yeah part of the part of this whole conversation is not class good class bad the the part of the conversation is class at this time hard.

37:13 Yeah it's also hard because other people in class have done dance for longer so she's behind and so she has to work harder at a hard time.

37:22Jon @WholeParent Yeah and and and we can talk about that. We can talk about how it's not fair that other people it's easier for other people than it is for you. So so so like I think all of these things can can at the same time be true. And I think that what I would look at here here's here's how I would approach it.

37:39Jon @WholeParent I would say I'm I'm leaving the option on the table right the the the option that I'm removing from the table is you do whatever you want when we show up and you're out and in and we're 20 minutes late and you're watching somebody on their tablet. I I'm removing that option just to make it easier for me to make the decision right with her.

37:57Jon @WholeParent Then the next thing I'm having the conversation about is it doesn't seem sustainable to show up 15 minutes late to and we're rushing and rushing and rushing and then she's walking into the class and she's already dysregulated before the thing even starts. So is it possible to create a better transition from those two things?

38:19Jon @WholeParent Maybe it's on those days I don't know how she gets to and from school but maybe it's on those days we go somehow we go straight from school yeah we're talking about that.

38:27 Right. Yeah my wife and I talk about that.

38:29Jon @WholeParent So so so if that's so if that's a uh a possibility um then what I would do is is I would say okay well then let's try that and see how that changes the whole dynamic. And it might be we go pick her up and I like having it saying it's it's you have just enough time to do nothing between these events. Right?

38:53Jon @WholeParent Yeah so so create it so that there's just enough time to do something. So what I would look at is I would go okay so she's got to eat she's got to get her dance clothes on she's got to get somehow get home from school she's got to get to dance, right? There are these four things. Well if I pick her up with a snack and her dance stuff in the car, how much time does that leave me at the park?

39:15Jon @WholeParent And if the answer is that leaves me 15 minutes at the park in between these two times. Because now she can eat in the car on the way or she can eat at the park or whatever, but it leaves me 15 minutes. Now instead of being 15 minutes late and rushed, you're 15 minutes late you're you're on time, which makes her already feel more confident because she's getting in there at the other same time as the other kids and she is well fed and she you know has some sort of autonomy before getting there.

39:45Jon @WholeParent And then maybe the choice becomes very clear because she goes, no, I'm actually really valuing being at the park right now and I don't want to go to dance. And so the answer there is actually we're just we're gonna take a season off of dance. And maybe it's gonna be harder to go when you go back right but you're gonna take a season off because you clearly and and and making that decision is not saying I think sometimes we get into this mindset we go, we're gonna quit dance and that means quitting forever.

40:12Jon @WholeParent Instead of saying no we're taking a season off of dance because it's not conducive for the way that everything's lining up right now. And and and you're not enjoying it and and it's making it hard for me and like yeah it's it's there's a money thing. Kids can actually be involved in that conversation of like hey this this costs a lot and I want I'm gonna I'm totally willing to pay for it if you are if you're getting the most out of it.

40:37Jon @WholeParent But if you're not getting the most out of it then like let's let's put that money somewhere else. Let's let's do let's do other fun things with that. Um and I think that those I think that that clear delineation and that clear boundary of hey if we're at dance we gotta participate in the class for the whole time and if that is not what you want out of dance then you don't then then you don't want to be in dance right now.

41:01Jon @WholeParent And that's okay.

41:02 So how would you enforce that?

41:06Jon @WholeParent Like would you say if she keeps coming out we'd say like we go home or would you just keep taking it I would I would I would basically how old remind me five five so I would probably have a conversation at five of saying hey not on the day of dance next day hey yesterday you came out of dance three times four times whatever it was if we come out of dance next week that many times we're just gonna stop doing dance for a couple months and that's that's not against you it's not because I'm mad is nothing right and it doesn't have to be next time it can be hey we're gonna spend we're doing one more month of dance but then we're gonna take a we're gonna take a break.

41:51Jon @WholeParent You don't have to enforce it so rigidly right but but but you create the create the the boundary and then sit with confidence in that boundary. So whatever the boundary is you have to be willing to enforce that. So if you're not willing to pull her out of dance don't don't say this. But if you're really like actually I don't know and and then then you can especially in these conversations you can start to peel back layers of the onion where she goes well actually I don't actually like dance I just like being a part of the the group.

42:21Jon @WholeParent Okay well let's try something else then I'll be able to or or I I I I do really like dance but I come out of the class when I feel overwhelmed by not being able to do it. Okay so we need to practice at home. Like the there are other interventions here once you start peeling back the layers which is really hard with a five year old.

42:39Jon @WholeParent Like it's much easier with an eight year old nine year old to get to those layers but it's harder to get to those layers with a five year old but you may be able to get to those layers where the truth is like and even if she likes it it's okay to take a break too. That's that's the other thing. Right now we are on a break from taekwondo I think we'll probably go back but we're on a break from taekwondo because it was pretty expensive number one.

43:02Jon @WholeParent And number two, um we're we're traveling a lot more during the week which is when it is so like it's we're gonna miss a lot of them and number three my oldest who was doing it with my second oldest my my two older kids are doing it my oldest was in soccer which was conflicting and we were like we're not gonna become overscheduled parents we're just gonna do one thing at a time and my six year old wanted to be in like a lot of parents will look at me and go you're a bad parent because like your six year old never asked to be taken out he actually participates fully every time your nine year my nine year old now 10 year old was like complaining about it every week and so like that was another aspect

43:39Jon @WholeParent of it. But like he has complained about every my six year old never complained. My six year old was growing he was learning important skills everything was good he enjoyed his his his teacher the teacher was great but it was expensive it was inconvenient for our family and it meant that he had to sacrifice that for a period of time he's not doing it even though he probably would benefit from it and he wants to do it that's okay like actually that that is not uh somehow like to my shame as a parent that's okay that's okay that he's and and and and and like I sometimes I just I feel like we as parents need to care that it's okay.

44:21Jon @WholeParent And it's okay thanks again for listening to this episode of the Whole Parent podcast. I hope it was worth the time that you gave it today. I hope you learned something or were challenged or maybe it just made you smile. If it did there's a couple of things that you can do that would really really help me out.

44:47Jon @WholeParent The first one is to go right now and subscribe to my channel at Whole Parent on YouTube. YouTube is getting full unabridged versions of every podcast episode ad-free right now I am really trying to get people over there because I have so much awesome YouTube content planned and I have such a small following over there.

45:07Jon @WholeParent So if you want to get the best of Whole Parent hop over to YouTube. There's awesome stuff there it's going to absolutely change your life the second thing that you can do is actually go to the link in the description you can find YouTube there as well but find the link for the parent lab. It's my exclusive community where I do group coaching.

45:26Jon @WholeParent I have a whole course library there full of amazing educational resources for parents it is a subscription model where you gain access for a low monthly fee. Go ahead check out the parent lab. There's so many amazing things in the parent lab and if you want to grow in your parenting it's the best way to do that.

45:45Jon @WholeParent The third thing that you can do and it probably costs you the most because it costs you vulnerability is to share this episode or this podcast in general with people in your life. There are parents in your life who are struggling there are parents in your life who could use this in their life and we know that the number one way that we can get more people to listen and watch and follow along with the podcast is by personal referral.

46:09Jon @WholeParent People want to know what you're listening to. They want to know what's helping you to parent more effectively and so if you can do that find somebody in your life who needs this podcast and send it to them I would be so so so appreciative. Thank you again so much for your time you can find links to everything that we talked about in the episode including my books, Punishment Free Parenting and set my feelings free down below and I'll see you next time