Chaos Episode: Bravo Fan Fest Recap!

Hello, hello, our unhinged friends. I'm Jenny, a reality TV producer in Los Angeles.

And I'm Sam, a psychotherapist in New York City. We're best friends and Bravo super fans.

And we're here to take you behind the scenes into the minds and lives of your favorite reality TV stars.

This is Unhinged.

And on camera. We're back for a chaos episode.

And we were already like.

I just saw the Nathan Felder, You Can See Everything, and Sam's about to, and I'm just instilling in her if she wants to have an emergency podcast after watching, we definitely can. The one thing I'll say, again, not a spoiler at all, but it was the best depiction, and I was talking to another friend of mine last night who's also in reality TV, and she agreed, the best depiction of what it's like to actually make a reality show.

I know.

Like just his whole, everything he does in that movie is what a reality producer does. And then also just like in general, the like way you break down people and try to understand them and their motivations and what they're telling you and all of that, all of that. And I worked on the Gypsy Rose show too. And we had her watch her like Hulu show, um, so there was so many similarities. There was just so much.

And I was like, this could be like my, and my friend who I went and saw with kept turning to me and being like, this is you. Cause like he questions people. Obviously she doesn't know anything about my work. She doesn't work in my business at all. And she's like, this is how you question people. And I'm like, that's because this is my job. This is what I do for a living.

Oh, well, I like that idea that it's like a insider's baseball. Like it gives you the inside look of, what the producers are doing off screen that we don't see and not in the exploitative way of these shows. Like what's the one that was like the back behind the scenes of the bachelor, like we're so over dramatized. Yeah.

Which was written by a former producer of The Bachelor. And I actually tried to watch that during my maternity leave. Obviously, it's like really old now. And it was too real and I had to turn it off. But it was also very dramatized. Like she was like sleeping on set, like never laughed. And she was like crazy. But a lot of it was also kind of true. But like only the dark sides. Whereas I feel like the Nathan Felder was very much like. This is why we love what we do.

I'm excited to watch it. One of the conversations I've been having with a couple of my therapist friends who have either seen it or been excited to see it is sort of like, what is our, as therapists, ethical sense of what it means to make a documentary about someone who one is like a criminal, right? Like there's this criminal aspect to it, but I think also too, like, is there like a mental health part of it? And like, is that ethical to be making a documentary with someone who may have like a mental health issue? I haven't seen it. So I'm not sure.

We might need an emergency podcast. Cause I'm telling you, well, like I felt like it's so much like what we're doing with our podcast. Like I really felt that like, it really is about the gray areas of people and personalities and experiences and how we all see and interpret the world and have unique experiences based on things that happened to us.

And like, to me, I thought it was very like a beautiful film.

And I think it wasn't, it wasn't exploitative.

Like it could, it could have been. And I felt it wasn't, I feel like, recording and having these conversations like all the conversations I've had with people like about the film I mean I feel like it stirs especially right now when we're also like isolated and we all live in our homes we don't really have good community anymore like we're all very separate and isolated like I think art and film is to bring us together and have hard conversations and like I had a pretty hard conversation last night with someone about the movie and I I could tell she was very challenged and I was not challenged, but I was just kind of like feeling like I couldn't get to a more interesting place with her in a way. So I was like, I'm excited

for you to watch. Cause like, I'm like, there's interesting.

Layers to this that I feel like is deeper and deeper and deeper, you know?

And the shallow surface of, like, is she a liar or not is kind of, like, not that interesting to me.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But anyway, so I'm excited to watch. If anyone has watched and wants to drop in our comments on our Instagram unhinged on camera, I'd be happy to engage with you because I currently.

Or if you have, like, things you think... We should talk about things that you are curious to hear our thoughts and opinions and annoying.

We always have great.

Yeah.

Great convos in the pod DM. So like always drop us a line. So yeah, we love it all.

Yeah.

So we're doing an interesting episode next. It's next week, right?

As we're doing next week. Yeah. And it's going to be about.

Women who enable bad men.

Is that the title that we're working on? That's the working title. That's the working theme. We're going to be kind of having this therapist come on who does a lot of content. that seems to kind of like center around the narcissism of men on Bravo or in reality TV. And so I had the idea of thinking about like the women who protect those men kind of like Lisa Vanderpump, Patricia, how do you say her last name?

Oh my God.

I'm like Southern charm.

It's good that you're saying the Nathan Felder movie, because that's a big part, a big part of the Nathan Felder movie.

So maybe we'll bring that into that, that conversation too.

So launching into the Bravo fan fest, I was camping, and I sent Sam, like, an SOS on Friday. Like, shit, I'm camping and plan on, like, disengaging. And Bravo Fan Fest is this freaking weekend. Like, repost some things, whatever. She was like, I'll try, but whatever. And, like, honestly, when I came back, it was like, let's consume, let's consume.

It was kind of disappointing, I would say. I wasn't excited by anything that happened. I thought there were a couple interesting moments that I did post about.

Maybe.

If you appreciated the post.

From Fan Weekend, it was Sam taking time away from her family.

The three posts that I maybe made. I think one thing that stood out, and I know that I posted about, was the way people were asking Sally questions about the Bravo Leberties that she had slept with. And how, to me, it felt... very like gendered and patriarchal in a way that like you wouldn't ask men in that way about like who was the best woman you've slept with on of all the Bravo lovers like you're not going to go ask Shep that question like who was the best of all or you know I know West wasn't there but you're not going to ask West that question I know he's more of a persona non grata but like yeah that idea that like that is a question aimed towards her as a woman nobody asked Kyle right yeah

no they asked her like who was the like who can you give us your like I don't remember the exact question but like give us your count of how many men you've like hooked up with on Bravo and then I think someone asked her who of all of them who was the best and she said Kyle and I feel like she had fun with it and didn't seem to take it personally and maybe this is like just a me thing but I'm sensitive to like women being objectified or women if they engage in more casual sex become shamed where men you know they get like congratulated and so I'm sensitive to how that felt like it was playing out a little bit to me.

Yeah I feel like two things are true in some ways because I 100% agree with you but then also I'm like well Sally has that sex podcast with Lala and she does kind of build it up.

She's always kind of like putting it out there.

And like, I think when we did our pod, we kind of talked about this too, where I'm like, I like that she's so sex positive and I think that's great. And like, I hate that that's now her narrative. And I don't think that it's fair to put that on her.

Or her identity, right? Like now it's become, and I think there's probably more interesting parts to her. But also she plays into that more than she needs to.

Like she could disengage a little bit more. Like she's doing that Marilyn Monroe thing where it's kind of like her thing.

Well, and I appreciate that she doesn't like, she's not crying wolf.

Right.

Like she's not then like being like people are like I don't get the sense that she's engaging in some like victimization of this thing that she's also kind of like playing with and flirting with. And yeah, I guess it's just the me sensitivity of like what those questions mean. And yeah, for us as I like this, like. Yeah.

I think Sally is such a strong and powerful personality.

And I actually am really drawn to her as a reality star. And I sometimes just I'm like, want to shake her. And like, and especially around the Austin stuff, like Yana Firestone did a great video that I like commented on. It was about how.

Austin's like breadcrumbing her and like leading her on.

He breadcrumbs everyone. He breadcrumbs Lindsay, breadcrumbs Ciara.

A hundred percent. And that's like his whole personality. Yeah.

I don't think he's got a loaf in there.

And I think the Bravo audience, like, that was great.

The Bravo audience, like, teases it, too, in a way.

And, like, they're like, when are you going to, like, will they or won't they?

And it just seems very clear to me.

It's like they won't. He won't.

He's not interested.

He's just as interested in Sally as he was with Lindsay.

Like, he would never go there.

Well, and I think we've talked about this in context of I can't remember which episode, but I think that Austin very much, like, He's supposed to have a traditional relationship because he gets that from his parents and like their expectations. But I don't get the sense that something he wants for himself at all based on any of his behavior. And I wish he would just kind of like own that. Like, no, like I like to have fun.

I like to flirt. I like to hook up. I like to meet girls. Like I'm not in a place to settle down at all. And just like was honest about that.

I feel like he's going into Shep territory. Like, he's going to be Shep.

I mean, but he is. He is Shep already. Shep doesn't have a loaf either. I know.

Like, I kind of thought him and Taylor were going to get back together, but I don't know. I guess we'll see it on the new season of Southern Charm. But Southern Hospitality was renewed.

I mean, if they do, like, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They got to get married if they're back together.

But yeah, so Southern Hospitality was renewed, but Leva is officially out.

I'm excited about it.

I think it really opens up a lot of different possibilities. And I think just the premise being like these are people who work in the hospitality industry in Charleston.

Is more than enough to fit the, you know.

Mold of the show. Like, I don't think we ever needed Leva. Yeah, I don't know that we needed her. I did enjoy some of her scenes where she would, you know, kind of like talk down to Joe Bradley. Yeah. I don't know if mothering is the right word. Who's going to control Joe Bradley now? Shame Joe Bradley a little bit and then watch him have, like, a teenage hissy fit about it. Like, I don't know. It's kind of fun. And it brought out something in Joe Bradley that I think, like, is interesting. And now I think Maddie will bring it out, which will be kind of weird because it's, like, if it is a mother role, like, it's not fun to have sex with your mother.

So.

Or maybe someone else.

Like, it will be kind of interesting to see him untethered in a way.

I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely curious about it. I don't think it needed Lepa, that's for sure. I didn't necessarily have such a negative response to her role in the same way that, like, I always liked Lisa Vanderpump on Vanderpump Rules, even though I didn't think it, like, after a point it didn't need her. But I liked how she would come in and kind of, like, demonstrate a, like, power and authority over these characters. you know, adult people, especially the adult men. And I know we'll talk about that a lot more next week.

Yeah, Lisa Vanderpump had more of a humor to it than Leva did.

And she's got the accent. Like, it's there. It was more fun.

It was more tongue-in-cheek and fun. And Leva sometimes rubbed me the wrong way. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'm fine without her. I am curious to see, is it this season that she'll be gone or next season?

It's the one they're going to start shooting, I guess.

Okay, so this one that's coming out will have her as part of it.

No, no, no. The next one, because they haven't been shooting with them.

Oh, they haven't? No, it's been a huge break. Oh, that's a long break.

It's a long break, so it's going to be, and I'm assuming.

Emmy's not going to be back.

And I don't know if Lake's going to be back. Yeah. I guess I wonder if it'll still be good.

Yeah.

It's been a long break. Yeah. I don't know what to expect from that at all. Yeah.

And the city is renewed. They are filming, but it is a little bit, they're going to probably be into the holiday season. So a little bit later than they did last, because they went right from Summer House into it. Amanda's out of her own volition.

So what did we think about her saying that she... I'm curious. I have my own thoughts, but I'm curious your thoughts about like her saying, I don't want to do this anymore because of being kind of being bullied. I don't think that's exactly the word she used, but because of the way she felt treated.

I think Amanda really needs to have a reckoning with what she wants.

In her life.

I kind of feel like confused about her in general because. She wasn't originally cast in Summer House. She was just someone Kyle was dating, and she kind of inserted herself in the show, and there's been behind-the-scenes rumors for years that the cast didn't like the way she inserted herself and felt that she was trying to get cast. Whereas I almost felt the opposite watching her on screen. I almost felt like, why is she on the show? It doesn't seem like she really.

Wants to be here. Yeah. Sometimes.

But also, like.

Doesn't fit your personality.

Like, she's not like Sally, who's just such a clear reality star.

Right.

So I'm like, why are you doing this? And then, you know, now she's off with Wes. And it just seems like she's, like, you know, wrapping her whole life around him. And, like, he's a little bit more of that Gen Z media. Like, and I almost think, like, when he was on Summer House, there were times when he kind of felt like, I'm better than this.

Mm hmm. You know, and it was just.

A launch pad for my podcast and my weird whiteboard shows and whatever else.

I feel Kyle because Kyle's.

Like, hey, you spent 10 years with me building this thing and don't throw it all away because of this thing that happened with West. And, you know, I think for him, he felt like come back on the show as a friend, you know, show respect. your true side now that you're a single person, like we're no longer together, give yourself an opportunity to like have that. And I think he was angry that she chose not to. And, and was it because of the bullying and stuff? Yeah, I'm sure it is, but it's also like woman up. Like, I mean, I'm sure she gets an insane amount of it and I don't think that's necessarily totally fair. Me personally, I like to see people come back because like, that's interesting.

Yeah. West is going to be on this Netflix show. So interesting. I feel similarly that I like to see people come back and like be able to narrate their story and get some sort of arc of like going through something and what happens to get to another side. And then I also like if if I kind of like put on a more like therapist hat, I'm like I could see where it's a really good choice for her to like step back and take a breather and kind of like re I just question whether she knows herself and knows her identity and I think the show has her very pigeonholed into something with Kyle and she's kind of free of that and like you said now she's kind of attached herself to West and I think if she continued on the show she'd like pigeonhole herself

into that and so I think it may be actually a really healthy thing for her to do like step back and like kind of step back from the influence of the show and what that role that plays and kind of like demanding you to be something entertaining and step back from maybe a little bit of the pressure from the audience and just feel.

Like a Raquel situation like if she stepped back and like right.

Yeah can she like do some real reflection and find herself I do think there's sort of like two things happening at the same time that both I agree that I think the audience can be bullies and can be really harsh and even kind of push the line over to like mean and cruel. And I think they're like parasocial emotional investment in, you know, her life or in any of these Bravo people's lives can cross the line into like something like unhealthy, both for yourself and for like the other person.

Yeah.

And then I also think that they made this whole dumb and dumber post. I was going to bring that up. They're teasing, yeah. I don't know. You can't play victim and play coy. Don't poke the bear and then say, why did the bear bite me? Right, exactly.

If you want to be left alone.

deep like disconnect and to me i don't know if she recognizes she's doing that or what's happening is she doing it or is west doing that i mean she she's making a choice like right like they did it looks like a photo shoot like a professional photo shoot like she participated in that for what like were they going to be in their personal photo book like no those were meant for her Public consumption. So there is a part of her that like still wants to be a part of the conversation because you could easily like make your Facebook private or have like a private account where you post you and Wes stuff just for like your close friends and family. And yeah, maybe it would get out there, but it would look like, oh, I'm

not trying to like shove this in everyone's face. And then I'm going to say I'm mad they're bullying me. And so I really want her to kind of look at that discrepancy. And there's some sort of like, oh, like disconnect happening for her around. Like, I don't like the way I'm being treated, but yet I'm still engaging in these behaviors to provoke people to engage in that way.

And so I actually think it's probably I wish she would come back because for my entertainment, I'd like to see that. But I do think it'll be good for her to like let some of the reactivity towards her and her relationship died down. and have to like reflect more on herself.

Yeah i worried too how much was he involved in her i guess asking for more money not wanting to just be a friend of which i think again like bravo asking to be a friend of considering her mental state and some other things kind of made sense i don't know um kyle obviously had this back and forth with west i just thought it was funny that he called him out for being a coke head, but we all knew that. Um, but yeah, I think there was a lot of booing at Bravo con about them. And it's like, you know, we want to hear the tea and like, you'll be, the people Boeing are the ones that want to hear the tea the most.

So like, come on, like with the booing.

Um, but, And so Lexi and Andre are out, which wasn't surprising.

They really didn't bring anything. And I guess they live in California now.

And Danielle is out, which I was in two minds about it. I was like, oh, I kind of wanted to see what happened with the baby and all this stuff.

Maybe she'll make a pop-up. I just, I think for their mind.

Yeah.

That's my maybe toxic trait or my unpopular opinion is I actually like Danielle.

Danielle.

And I kind of like that she was like kind of putting Lindsay in a little bit of a place last season, just being like, yeah, you're mad I'm here. And Lindsay's kind of like, yeah, I am mad you're here. And I think there's a tension between them that is maybe healthy for Lindsay's ego a little bit.

Which I think they probably had such a bomb season on Summer House and Lindsay probably brought a lot that they were like, OK, let's. build this more around lindsey and not need to have this foil for her anymore maybe also because it's kind of come to an end in a way and she also has her other best friend who can kind of call her out though i don't know if she's going to um and i also.

Like support maybe not having women after watching the valley like women freshly postpartum onto the show and so i sort of wish her other friend wasn't going to be on either like i feel like give all of these women who just have babies, like, a year off and say, like, be in postpartum. Like, the reality here is that, like, you need to take care of yourselves and your baby and not worry about filming and entertainment. I don't know.

Oh, yeah, it's hard because, like, I do like seeing that, like, season depicted, you know, of someone's life.

But, yeah, it's hard when every woman just had a baby.

So I think if it made sense for them to leave, But also like I like that they're doing a cash shakeup because talking about the Valley, it's like I kind of feel like the show would have been better if they did more cash shakeups. That was I was thinking today how it was strange that they didn't announce another season.

The Valley makes me think the show is not. I thought it was already filming. People said they were already filming. Not to my knowledge, but I don't know. Maybe they did have that Halloween party, but I don't know if cameras were there. I thought they were in, like, Florida filming for something, like, a month ago for, like, something that Brittany was hosting. But maybe I missed... If anyone knows, tell us. Yeah, tell us what the tea is, because we obviously missed that.

Next Gen Atlanta.

Okay, so, I know everyone gets mad on this podcast when I do a tease about I have tea, but sorry, I have tea, and you're going to have to listen to the podcast to get the.

Tea, you know? And I did say.

I heard Next Gen Atlanta was greenlit and Next Gen LA was not happening.

And I think Camille Grammer was, like, posted, like, it tested better.

I can totally imagine that it probably tested better in the sense that all the people that were being cast are, like, recognizable from well-known celebrities and they're very likable.

But the gossip that I heard was that it was.

They were afraid that there wasn't enough storylines with them because, you know, L.A.

Is a very different city than New York, especially with young kids. They don't really go out.

And party or do things. And I think the Umansky.

Kids were involved.

And I know they don't, you know, you know how Kyle is.

She's a lock. She's locked down.

Her kids are even more locked down.

And so I think they felt that there wasn't enough story there.

And I think Kyle in general is boring on Beverly Hills. And so I don't see like what her daughters could bring that would be that interesting to me.

Yeah. And I think Heather's son was involved in like saying like Heather is great as a housewife, but like she doesn't have drama in her life, you know, like like fundamentally really. Right.

And are those kids like friends? Like, I've never heard of them being friends. Which, yeah. So I think. I guess it makes sense. Isn't her son in real estate? And then, like, Kyle's kids are in real estate. Like, I don't know.

They probably know each other.

Maybe they need to do an up-and-coming real estate kids, nepo kid show. Million-dollar L.A.

Listing comeback next gen possibility. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I originally heard Brielle was kind of the center of Atlanta Next Gen, but then there was rumors she wasn't filming because of the situation with her brother. But, you know, we've discussed that we didn't think it was fair for the sisters to have to.

Yeah, I think that's really unfair to to take her off of a show because of something her brother did or her even supporting a family member like. i don't know it just feels like you don't want to punish kids for the unhealthy family dynamics that they're taught or i don't know and yeah i guess it might be good for her not to be on it again if i'm like coming from a more like therapeutic stance of like that family right now maybe just needs like to calm down and focus on each other and not on fame and So then there.

Was just, like, a big Misha gossip, like, gossip, right? Like, Heather brought up the black eye, I guess. And then she got booed. I wrote, like, question marks because I was like, something about black eye.

Well, somebody asked her about the black eye. And then she kind of played coy and was like, Andy, answer this for me. And Andy's like, well, I thought you said Jen Shaw did it. And she's like, well, I don't know, man. You know, Jen asked if she did it. And I'm just. I think Heather is an interesting, like, example of a downfall. Like, right? Like, falling from grace. Like, I feel like she was such, like, a sweetheart her first couple of seasons. And she has really kind of fallen out of favor. And I think part of it is that she, I think part of it is this, like, black eye thing. She hasn't been transparent about it. she's done, as you kind of mentioned, like she blamed production, then she's blaming Jen. She kind

of blames whoever's convenient to her in the moment. But then she also like has started to have like this moral authority over the show in general that I think is like an icky feeling. And it feels like, okay you've detached yourself from your Mormon identity and that being who you are but you're still playing like what you say was so bad about being a Mormon which is like kind of this catty pettiness of like who's better than who and you kind of putting yourself on this like I'm the good girl of the show or I'm like sort of the the one above everyone on the show now I don't know there's It's interesting to have watched her kind of falling so far from Grace.

You know, it's interesting that both Whitney and Angie both went to Heather about her, their marriage troubles. I thought that was like, it's interesting how she's sort of the down to earth friend that people kind of grab onto in times of need in a way like i think there is still that quality that i loved about her there i think you're right in that the black eye really is bringing her down to the point where it's like just give a straight answer jen okay watching the nathan felder you can see everything i just could not stop thinking about jen shaw because.

The way i've asked everyone if she made a cameo and she does not sorry um but i said but i bet her shaw amazing body did like didn't Didn't Elizabeth Holmes take her Shawmazing body class? Oh, that is disgust. No, I'm just kidding.

Whatever. But no, the way that Jen Shaw lied those last couple of seasons was just like mind blowing. I feel like, and like, but also I'm like, I think she believed her own bullshit, but I'm still like, I know she did those people magazine interviews, but I'm just like, I feel like I need more from, I need to understand Jen.

I need a, You can see everything.

Jen Shaw movie.

And what I don't totally I want to stick to this because I really don't totally get like why Jen Shaw is more hated and more ostracized and more punished than Karen Huger. Oh, great transition.

And because I really want to talk about.

Like Karen Huger is doing some really, to me, problematic stuff on this season. Her talking about there's this whole scene with her, Giselle and Ashley, where she goes, I don't have a problem with alcohol. I have a problem with medication. So I just stay away from places where I'd be around medication. Like hospitals? Pharmacies? What are you talking about? What medication? Because before you said it was antidepressants.

And so if this is your rhetoric about antidepressants, that is extremely problematic. Because antidepressants are not... They're not addictive. They are. It's not or are you admitting is she admitting that she's on like benzos is she admitting that she's on some sedative like you can't just say medication like and like if you really if your problem really isn't out like you can't just like put in this thing to hide.

It's so problematic to me.

And it's you can't say your problem is not alcohol, but then you sat all day at legal seafood drinking. And then you say that was 10 years ago, whatever, whatever.

No.

If you sat all day at Legal Seafood drinking 10 years ago, you were still an alcoholic today.

And, like, yes, I get Jen Shaw, like, really hurt a vulnerable population, and there should be repercussions and punishment for that. But Karen put people's lives at danger. Like, she could have killed. Like, she is lucky that nobody died. Yeah, very. She is, like, lucky because that was what she did right like she put people's lives at danger and multiple times because this was not her first DUI multiple times and yet she still comes on and says oh I don't have alcohol problems like humble yourself like this is not okay the whole Sophia home party which totally like if you read the book like you're missing the point.

Like And I feel like because she survived prison, now I feel like she's on a higher pedestal.

Survived prison? You weren't put in prison wrongly. You were put in prison because you put people's lives in danger. And clearly prison did not do what it was meant to do. You can say you're healed and sober, but she's not sober, right? They talk about different types of sobriety. She is not in recovery. She is a dry drunk. Right.

A dry drunk is when you no longer drink, but you haven't actually acknowledged the core to why you were drinking to where your alcohol problem came from.

And in fairness, we don't know if she's not. We don't know if she's not drinking or not.

Well, that's what she says on the show. So I'm just going to go with like what we're being told.

And like, what did you think about her not filming therapy?

That whole story.

And then she's like, I don't want to talk about it because if I talk about it, then I have to talk about everything.

And at this stage, because I'm working on my therapy, I can't.

I think, to me, it felt like a little weaponized. I have a hunch, this is my hunch, that her therapist did not want to film. I think that Karen has such a fragile, fragile ego. Any therapist would know that this is a client that work is going to move so freaking slowly because I have to validate them until they have enough emotional tolerance to be challenged. And to be able to start to look at their role in their own behavior. And so I'm guessing her therapist does not want to go on TV, film a session where she gets co-opted into Karen's narrative that alcohol is not her problem. if I were Karen's therapist I would be like no way no how this feels like a risk to me I could see where it's also a

risk to her but even as a therapist I'm like protect yourself like that work because it seems to me that Karen is in a very early start of the therapeutic process Which is rapport building, normalizing. She's saying she's doing all this trauma work. My guess is like she's not actually doing any trauma work. Is that like she's not there yet? Because I don't think her ego is strong enough to do that kind of work. I think it's still... to just the fact that she's going on still so deeply denying her alcohol problem and deeply kind of like denying her own behavior I don't think she's in any type of window of tolerance to do real work and so if I were her therapist I would be like no I think that there's probably also an

aspect to her that if there is real work being done she doesn't want it to be seen that like her therapist might like challenge her victim narrative.

Well it makes me feel good in the sense that it seems like her therapist is like legitimate yeah yeah that he she wouldn't film exactly.

The ray of it all is just kind of like girl.

I can't like.

You clean you you are blaming the dui on this ray situation like then just get divorced i don't know i just feel like Why did they bring Karen back?

But why would she want to divorce him if she can, you know, blame him, right? Like if he can become sort of the, he gets to be the object that she puts all of her guilt and shame into and then she doesn't have to carry it. And if she left him, then she has to just like sit and reflect on her own and be like, oh, I'm responsible for everything in my life. And again, I don't think her ego is strong enough to tolerate that.

So for me, I'm like, why is she back?

Well, and again, like, why does Jen Shaw get the Andy like, oh, no, I'll never have her back. But like, I'm going to invite Karen back. Yeah. And act like she's like a healed and like good person.

Which I haven't dived into the legal ego of it all. I'm sure the Bravo docket will. But Leah and Andy and Bravo resolved their lawsuit on Friday.

Do you know what the settlement was?

There was some.

Posts about it and I just didn't fully read it so okay so no facts.

Here no facts sorry go to Bravo docket but yeah it's interesting because you kind of put into light like people who are Andy's favorites how do they skate by in a way I think we kind of in a way Vicky falls into that category too maybe she deserves it because she started the whole show but What do you think about Robin coming back? I felt like, obviously I like her new energy because it's interesting and it's different and she's giving something different, but it also just feels calculated. Like she's like, I've done one thing for every season.

It's not been working. So now I'm going to come back and be like challenging Giselle, challenging Ashley. I love it. But it just feels, it doesn't feel like genuine. I don't know. To me, it kind of does. She's like, I had some time and space away from this thing. Now I'm back and I'm coming at it with a new, I guess because I can like kind of really suspend disbelief for myself of what I'm given is what I'm given.

And I'm not going to try to too much try to understand what's happening in the background. That to me, it feels like Robin came back. She used to be Giselle's best friend. She's seeing the dynamic has changed and Giselle is now kind of like aligned with Ashley. I think she's seeing something about Ashley that we've all been seeing around like how she's kind of like gone off the deep end and is not like a girl's girl is not like she, she's not friends with any of these people. She is, she sees them as fodder for her own fame and attention seeking and And I really like that Robin is calling it out. And I think she's a good person to call it out because she has known Ashley the entire time. And we know Giselle

is not. And if Karen does it, like, this is what Karen does. So it's not taken seriously. But I think when Robin does it, to me, it feels like, oh, okay, like, This is somebody who really, you know, you can't have Tia come in and do it because she hasn't known Ashley that long. You can't have Wendy do it because they already have so much tension and negative history. But Robin has known Ashley and Giselle since the beginning. And so her being able to call out and say like, hey, like we need to start like not being such shitty friends.

To me, that feels like this is actually a good source to start this conversation. She stepped away. She's got some insight and some. on the process because she's been away from it for a little while that I don't know to me it feels like she's a good person to come in and have those conversations with them.

Well she's bringing something different so I give her flowers for that like come back I get.

That it feels a little calculated too but I guess I'm okay with it that it feels a little calculated because I can like justify it in my.

Head I will say Tia is giving a master class on how to handle something crazy coming up in your personal life. Like, she's giving us just enough with the group dynamic. She's giving us just enough with her family. She's still protecting her kids, but she's being honest. Like, to me, I just feel like she's handling the whole situation.

And then she does it all with a British accent, which makes it.

With class and dignity. You know, like, I just... pray for her. I really love her. I didn't watch all of last season. So I'm really kind of into Potomac this season. And I'm excited about it.

So yeah, me too. And I kind of, I like that she's showing the complicated nature of you find out your partner is cheated. You come from a history of cheating. And you're trying to make sense of what that means to you. And I think that's like a real thing that women go through that it's not so simple of like, He cheated and so I'm leaving him. It can be more complicated. So I like that. I like that she's like slowing down and showing us the, you know, nuance and the. And the pattern.

And like, it'll be interesting to get into her pattern that like a similar thing happened with her mom. Real Housewives of New York. I think I like it. I think I like, like, I think I really like it.

I like it too. Yeah. It's not. It's hard to say that after all we've been through. It doesn't feel like the real housewives of influencers in New York anymore, which I really like. And it doesn't feel like the OG New York, but it feels like something new that I'm interested and curious about for sure. And I want to keep seeing.

It play out I feel like Martha Stewart casted this season and is a friend of and it's basically just like I'm like did Martha Stewart.

Literally I will never get over Martha Stewart giving that child on the street some water.

I'm just like did Andy call Martha Stewart and say can you save Real Housewives of New.

York for me and she said Hold my drink.

I love Erica.

Erica seems like someone.

Maybe I have seen her somewhere else, but she seems like... She gives me, like, old-school, real-world road rules, which, by the way, Devin... Devin is joining. Wait, who's Devin? Devin is the girl that came in the last episode. She's a matchmaker, and she was like, me and Cy don't really get along. You saw the episode at Erin's.

Townhouse, right? No, fuck. I haven't finished that one.

Okay, well, basically... We are introduced to Devin, and she's famous from Real World.

I will finish that one. Yeah.

She's famous from, I think, Real World, but she was on The Challenge, too. I actually worked on a show called Match Me in Miami on Roku, if anyone wants to watch it. It has one season. But Devin was the star of that show, and she is a star. I really.

have nothing but good things to say about Devin for.

Sure but you know knowing her and she's so eloquent she's really well spoken she really comes in she's not afraid of conflict like that episode at Aaron's townhouse which you'll see is like I guess her and Psy had some weird interactions and she just, like, addresses it head on, like, in that moment. And, like, I love that.

Like, she's old school MTV in that way. Like, address your conflict head on.

The one thing I hope to see from her and advice I would give her is, like, show a little bit more of a vulnerable.

Side of her.

Because she's such a strong person. She's a strong reality star. Like, she could be a little bit messy and show her personal life in a more raw.

Real way.

I think that would be her ticket to. Holding the apple, which I think she probably will next season anyways. But, yeah, and I really like Erica in that same way, too. I love that she's a billionaire, but also kind of, like, fell into being a billionaire, but also doesn't... Like, she doesn't shy away from the fact that, like, her You know, money is from her husband. But, like, at the same time, she's.

Accomplishing her own right.

And, like, she just balances all the things she is in such a good way. And I love how Daisy challenges that.

Because Daisy.

They're like.

Opposite, right? Like I feel like Erica is a billionaire, but is like kind of humble and down to earth where Daisy seems like she lives in a down to earth setting, but is unhumble and totally pretentious and judgy. And it's interesting to see them have this like back and forth.

And then she's like, it's fun being with Martha all the time.

It's like, I kind of question like when you look at her marriage, I'm like, she just seems so.

Dissatisfied in that situation. And I think part of it is like, she wishes she had an encore, you know, like a billionaire.

I think so. I think so. Or she wishes she had some way to create the life that she witnesses through Martha for herself.

And I feel like there's a part of Daisy that I like, no, like, And I have friends like this or I can be like this sometimes. So it was just always complaining and always commenting on something. Hers is a little elevated and getting in.

I could not imagine going to someone's private island and like or even their home on a private island, even if they didn't own the island as a whole and complaining about anything. I couldn't imagine going on that trip and complaining about anything.

I can't imagine going to someone's house and seeing a spread of sushi the way that.

Sai had for her and then, like, saying it was gross.

Saying it was supermarket.

I would have been, like, honored to show up at someone's house.

Even if it was supermarket.

I would have been like, wow, the effort alone putting just this sushi.

It's like nothing is good enough for this woman. And yet, like, Again, she lives what seems like a humble life. So it's a strange disconnect. Yes. Like it would make more sense if Erica was like that. Yes. Because it would be like, OK, well, you live this life. And so like you're used to everything being elevated. And it's clearly like, yes, Daisy, everything is elevated when you're with Martha.

But that's not your life.

Right. Then you do have the store bought pie at home.

So which is it? yeah yeah i'm like again it's like i'm just now i'm curious to watch this person in these circumstances and um carol is kind of.

Have to like watch herself back like watch herself be so complaining and judging yeah because i know for myself what i am complaining and judging if i had to look back i'd probably be like oh like luckily i don't have to i can just like move on but I think about even in therapy when I like go and talk about like shit that I've been like that I've done and I'm like oh wait like I actually don't like the way that sounds now that I'm saying it out loud and I do think that is one of the surprises you can get of watching yourself on reality TV is you can, you know, watch yourself and say, I don't like that. And I want to change that part of me. Will she do that? I don't know.

Yeah. I think Psy is going through a bit of that evolution and I really like that.

And she is a perfect example of that.

Cause I really did not like her. Yeah. You haven't seen the rest of the townhouse yet, but she kind of gets into it with Carol and then like Daisy because Daisy's sort of like reprimanding her and she's like no like I can talk how I want and I loved that I was like Cy good for you I think she needs to find a balance between sharing things that's really going on in her life and being honest and being able to be vulnerable in that space while also like holding true to her real personality which is like she's got a harsh shell She says it like it is.

She is so New York. You know, she is like, I know that girl. I work with that girl in therapy. I have friends that are that girl and I like that. And I think that's what I like about her this season is I feel like she is being more vulnerable, even though she's still like she has she isn't like one. I don't feel like she's trauma dumping on us just to trauma dump. She's like sharing in what feels like a more natural, organic way. But she's still holding on to that tough New Yorker exterior. Mm hmm.

And I think a lot of it, too.

I just came off a really hard show and.

When I think about producing reality TV and I think about that first reboot season, it was just these dinners of trauma dumping. And I see this a lot on first seasons. I see this a lot in general in reality TV. And I think what's so hard right now is that we kind of we have almost like a soap opera template.

Right.

Like it's no longer like, hey, we just picked up cameras and followed people and see what happens. It's like we're set up around these big events in like reality TV world. We call them tent poles. So every episode has like a tent pole. So this most recent episode of New York, the tent pole was Aaron's party. And so we're sort of like driving towards these tent poles and then all things are supposed to happen at these parties or at these events. And what I'm seeing a lot in producing is, like, they're not following the real story that happens afterwards or pivoting. They're just like, okay, now we have to get to the next tech poll.

Now we have to get to the next party, next event, next thing. Instead of being, like, slowing down and being like, oh, this, you know, argument happened. Like, and maybe this will happen because the producing is much better on this season. But, like... Abe and Aaron get into it at her townhouse party.

So like, I would love to see a scene about their, how they parent their kids, you know, like something to give me more or like drive story forward in a way that we're following and tracking it as opposed to like, okay, now we just got to get to Kyle's white party. Now we just got to get to this thing. And like, that's what I think is kind of working in this season.

Like this episode prior to the townhouse party was a lot of just sit down conversations. And somehow it was like really interesting.

Because it was picking up on.

All the stories from the island and like kind.

Of carrying them through. Because I was like, it was like side her apartment, then at Carol's apartment. Carol's apartment does look amazing. It does look amazing. That's why she doesn't let people come.

If I had that apartment, I probably wouldn't let people in either. I'd be like, this is my little, yeah.

And she didn't buy any sushi.

I kind of like that Daisy was calling it a gem. But yet she didn't get served anything, not even a cup of water. And yet that was an amazing experience for her.

Because she is a bit of a social climber too, you know?

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

I love the questions about Haley. We finally get to like talk about her husband. Still super confused. So she sleeps with women, but he doesn't sleep with other people?

Is that? I don't know.

So that I'm like still like, I'm very interested in Hayley, but sometimes I think she's also just kind of like too wacky for the show where I'm like, I don't relate to her at all because she's just so weird.

I'm kind of willing to let her stay and play out because I think right now she's leaning on that like Kathy Hilton character energy that I think that mask will come down as she gets more comfortable. Interesting. I think part of it is getting past the like Gosselin guy. What's his name? The John Gosling of it all. Like, I think part of her mask is up because she knows that's going to be part of her story. And it's clearly a real significant trauma for her that impacted her identity, her development.

And she basically so she married this guy because of that and for no other reason yeah I really.

Think that thing impacted her in a profound way and she knew that was going to be part of it so I get the sense there's some like Part of the kookiness is masking from the real trauma of that and the real impact of that. I hope she's in therapy. I wish if not, call me, girl. I got you. Because I think she could do some really good trauma work to undo some of that and figure out where she needs to reparent herself or rebuild her identity because she got stuck in some arrested development around how that experience impacted her.

And her relationship with her mom is obviously going to be is very interesting.

I mean, and so I'm kind of willing to let her be a little kooky right now and let that play out for the season. I'd be curious next season when she comes back. I'll be curious how she shows up at the reunion. But I can give her some grace around not being as like authentic or clear storyteller right now because I do get the sense that it's coming from a deeper traumatic place.

And I kind of was starting to see.

Okay, for me, Aaron and Jessa are, like, the leftovers from, like, the old reboot.

And I'm like, reboot your reboot.

Because I can't with their storylines.

But this episode, I finally kind of started to undo the shell of Aaron in a weird way. Like, the house in the Hamptons, yeah.

But, like.

seeing the financial stress but also like she just had a baby not too long ago either and it was like the first time you saw that child or like it was referenced at all because she seemed like she kind of just like popped him out and kept moving and it's like great more power to you but it just like was like isn't that a part of your story that you just had a kid i have.

Such a hard time with erin And it's interesting all this news that just came out about Abe being Dumas' lawyer. Did you see that? Yes. What do you think? I'm curious what you think about that. It's messy. Especially how that plays into like if you were her producer. I'm curious like what you'd want like what you'd be worried about about how that might influence how she engages with the other women on the show.

Interesting. It's like it's hard to say because I guess like Dumas did this whole post about, I guess, the.

Povet rumor in general.

And like, I don't know.

I mean, well, and just the way I feel like Aaron engages with rumors and elitism and kind of like being like positioned above the other women.

Yeah, well, she's getting knocked down. So I don't think that position's there anymore. I don't think it was ever there. I think it's totally perceived. Yeah, perceived and not justified. But, like, in a way, I could see myself. I don't like Jessel or Aaron right now, but I can see myself liking Aaron more.

Because I think Aaron might.

Do it in it.

In a more unintentional way. Like, I think Psy was saying that she gets drunk in his loose lips. And I kind of relate to that.

Like, I'm like, okay. I'll never get over queefing everyone's business. I don't even care that that was spoiled for us. Because it was just as good to see it happen as it was in the trailer. Trailer.

So then, but Jessel, like, actually what turned me off on Jessel was the party in Ultimate. The Ultimate Girls Trip anniversary episode. When she went up to Dorinda and was like, you're.

Re-wearing your costume.

Like, that was the most annoying interaction I've seen on reality TV. Like, she's wearing her iconic Halloween costume. That was, like, for the party. Like, what are you talking about? And you were dressed as a hockey player. Like, you were wearing the stupidest costume ever.

And it was a fake Halloween party. There's definitely, like, a lack of respect she has for, I don't know. Herself? For other people, I think, actually. And herself. And for, like, the history of something she's engaged with. I think she got so much praise for that silly Tribeca comment that sometimes she thinks she's doing something that's, like, cute and ditzy. Like, it feels similar to, like. that dinner with carol where she was completely insensitively asking her about her family members who had yeah who had passed and doing it in such a way that i you know saying like carolyn beset summer like this is this woman's family who died and i you saying that to anyone else would be fine but this is completely inappropriate and i feel like

she'd doesn't understand the line between when something is inappropriate or a violation and when something is, like, cute and funny. And I think part of that is the show has enabled her ego to get so big that she doesn't, like, slow down and think about the things that she says.

She's just clearly doing too much. Too much. And I don't think she's getting the message to not. So, yeah, I'm more concerned about Jess though. Well, it feels like a fall down to me similar, like, Heather. Like, where it felt like she had a... She rose up very quickly in the first and second season of the reboot, like, as, like, kind of the shining light amongst, you know, what felt like duds at the time. And to have her come back and really just kind of, like, crumble in the face of, like, something that's much better is interesting.

Yeah. I'm kind of checked out on OC. I have not seen the finale.

I mean, I don't know what else to say except let it lie for a minute.

Period. I don't know I have anything to say either like I think I'm most interested I think in Jen Pedrante and her like family dynamics like I agree do a whole session about that session podcast could do a whole session to some family therapy with them around like the role that like Even that conversation she was having, was she having it with one of the girls or with a partner?

Oh, I love the two. She walked out and the two sons had the conversation. That felt like old school OC to me. And I liked that.

Well, she's talking about her son, Dom. I think he's one of the younger ones and he's having like behavioral issues at school. And then she's talking about how she thinks, or maybe she was just doing it in a, what are they called? Confessional. A confessional. But so she's talking about Dom and she's talking about how like, she has this insight that I think, like, the kids are impacted by the divorce. And I was just like, like, how?

Why did it take you this long to recognize that your kids would be impacted by something like this?

She keeps using that as an excuse for everything.

Well, it's interesting because then there's a scene with Ryan coming in being like, I am happy to help because Ryan says something like, I think you should get him therapy. And she goes, stop putting so much on my plate. And it's like, oh, she's recommending your son get therapy. And you're perceiving this as putting so much, which is an interesting thing to hear, like, Taking care of your children feels like a weight that is too much for you to carry. And that's something you need to look at.

That the idea of finding your son a therapist. to get him help for his behavioral, emotional problems feels like too much on your plate. Like there is something you are so deeply trying to avoid about the role that you play in your children's development and in their emotional regulation and their emotional world that you are disconnected from.

And to realize that would be having to take like such a level of accountability that you have no tolerance for.

I just got triggered. Like I have chills of triggering.

It was so triggering. It was so true. because i do get the sense that she is like deeply loves her children but is so deeply overwhelmed with the idea of like parenting or emotional regulation or emotional needs of others um i can't remember.

Her whole story because she is the most empathetic person on the cast and she operates with the women in such a kind and patient way beyond everybody else but then i totally agree like It was early in the season. One of her sons got into something and she was like, oh, you know, it's because of the divorce.

And then she just took over the entire conversation and made it about herself. Herself. The guilt she feels. She starts crying. And he's then having to, right? That's the scene where she starts to cry and her son has to move away from his own feelings and move in to take care of her. Yeah. Which is how parentified children happen.

Yeah. and she just keeps going back to me I'm like she keeps going back to the divorce and she the thing that's frustrating because it's like it reminds me of my mom it's like she takes ownership of like the divorce infected you and like what my actions did affected you but she doesn't take I don't think.

It's actions I think it's that the divorce effect it's the way to place everything on the divorce yeah instead of her role in it and it being this thing that I didn't have it like becomes a stance of victimization I don't have to take any real responsibility yeah And so then Ryan says, I want to help. I want to I want to take on some of this.

I'm like, I love these kids. And I thought that was really beautiful. He's like, I want to help. But the one level you're not letting me do is like discipline. And she gets I can't remember her exact reaction, but it felt like she got very tense and scared of the idea of discipline, which I thought was really interesting because you have these kids who have all these like behavioral emotional regulation development. identity issues and part of it feels like because they've never had like limits or structures or you know consequences for their actions and she talks about the the kid who got did he get like a dui.

Or yeah yeah something with driving and then also prior to the season airing or prior after shooting one of her kids like started like a forest fire and.

But basically what ryan says is like yeah that kid got in trouble and there were no consequences and she's.

Like yeah i know and made me more confident about her marriage with ryan and i know it made me it made me like i know i'm not i I still get spider tinglys that I don't trust him, but I do think that he is pushing her to consider something that she needs to consider.

Around like, yo, you are the parent here. Act like the parent. You're acting like the child. I didn't know that he had kids either. I didn't either.

Until the daughter popped up on the show and then I was like, oh, he has kids?

Even in that conversation, he felt like the parent to her. It still felt like he was the one having to parent Jen. He's having to teach her how to be a parent and that feels like a really unhealthy dynamic I don't know it all seems like a mess and I'm I guess I'm curious about that from a therapeutic lens of like I would love to be doing some family therapy with them and really like have to push Jen into some like uncomfortable awareness of the role that she plays in expecting her children and everyone else to take care of her emotions when as a way to like not have to deal with their big emotions Well.

It's interesting I didn't see her on the list of the potential reboot, and I actually feel like that's wrong. I want to see her on the list. I think she's probably one of the ones that I'm most curious.

She's the only one I'm interested in, yeah.

And she's so OC, so I'm surprised that she wouldn't be. I am behind on Salt Lake City, but you wanted to talk about, is it bad that Brittany took the flowers?

Yes. What do you think? I'm sad you haven't seen it. The new episode. Sorry. Because they talk about it in the new episode.

I totally forgot. So just tell me what happened.

Well, basically what happens is Heather has this whole astrology party and Mary's like deeply upset that she took the flowers and something happens between the two of them. Where Mary's just like, I can't believe you took the flowers. And Brittany's just like, what are you talking about? I didn't do... I keep trying to, like, meet your grief.

And Mary's just like, no, like, you haven't. You're being disrespectful. And something happens semantically where. Brittany basically kind of discounts Mary's grief. I don't think it was her intention. But she says something like, I don't care or it doesn't matter. It's not that big of a deal. I can't remember the words now. Someone will correct me. If you had watched it, you would remember because you're really good at those things. I mean, those flowers are going to go in the garbage. And, like, if she really did bring them to, like, nursing... Well, hold on. So then Mary runs off because she's like, oh, she just said, like, my grief, like, doesn't matter and is really upset about it. And I... I agree. I

don't know the etiquette about event flowers. It's not my world. I had no flowers at my wedding because we had dried flowers. I don't even like getting flowers as a gift. They mean nothing to me because they die. It represents something. I would prefer a plant that I could try to keep alive. I prefer wine. I love wine. So if you get me a gift, don't get me flowers. There are many other things you can get me. So I don't understand the etiquette there. I do understand... I don't think that Brittany had bad intentions, but I do think she is completely self-involved and unaware of her impact on other people. And then when she is told her impact, she gets extremely defensive instead of sort of slowing down

and be like, oh shit, this was an event, your first event with the women after the loss of your son. The flowers were symbolic of that, right? Like there was a whole scene where she's like introducing how Robert Sr. made these flowers. And then apparently she brought flowers for Mary and took those back with her to the nursing home.

But wait, I thought you were going to justify that it was okay that she took the flowers. No. I feel like that's not what you're doing.

I'm not.

Okay, our text messages about this were misconstrued then. I mean, I think it was fine if she took the flowers if she asked. Like, why couldn't she have just asked and said, like, do you need all these flowers? Otherwise, I'm going to take them to this nursing home.

Totally. Totally.

Why couldn't you just ask that?

Well, look, I again, I think like the behavior of taking them and bringing to a nursing home feels like fine. It feels like in the context is where it gets messy.

Right.

It gets messy because of the context of this event being the first that the flowers were kind of about the loss and the grief and that she had brought flowers and then taken those flowers back. And the way that she in that conversation with Mary talked about, well, I sent you flowers and you never responded as if like you didn't just send them because this is someone in grief and you wanted to send them. You send them as a performative thing. And, I don't know, Brittany really lost me this episode. Because I always think she's kind of funny and brings a comedic relief. But, I don't know, this was one, I guess because I'm feeling extremely empathic towards Mary having just lost her son, that I'm like, we should be tiptoeing around this woman.

Yeah, that's why I was kind of surprised when I thought you were going to defend Brittany. I was like, wait, how is this.

Going to go? And I think there's many times to not tiptoe around Mary, but I think this season is the season... You tiptoe around the pregnant woman. You tiptoe around the person.

What do you think of like Angie not sharing the stuff about Sean? And then I think that pissing off Mary or whatever.

I can see both sides. Yeah. I can see both sides.

Seems like just a miscommunication. Because in a way, like, I can understand Angie. Like, I don't want to share my problems. I feel like there's a deeper rupture happening between the two of them. And I feel like we're not being shown it. And I don't know if it's just that, like, Mary is in grief. And so she ain't got time for petty bullshit. And I think Angie can be in the petty bullshit. And so something that she maybe thought was, like, endearing or charming is now just, like, very triggering to her. Yeah, because she basically said like because I was a little confused by that whole situation that happened last season at that weird party where Angie like went off on Lisa Barlow and then Mary was

really mad at her. And then they come over and they have a conversation and there was like the dog was farting or they were farting or Mary was farting. There was a little farting situation. But like basically, I think. Angie was on Nick Vial or something like this talking about it. And basically, I think Mary does not like it when Angie plays too much of a reality star.

And supposedly her rupture with Sean is also connected to her becoming... housewife and all that comes with it. To nobody's surprise.

The reason why all marriages come.

From a publisher. But also, like, she talks about how she was, like, a little bit, like, meek in her marriage and she didn't like that her husband was MAGA, basically, is what she said without saying, right? Yeah.

Which I kind of, like, loved. We have different values or beliefs or... Yeah. Ideal... I think ideology was the word she used. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, like... To me, I just, like, feel like Mary probably would judge her if she wanted to leave Sean. And that's probably part of the rupture and part of the reason she doesn't share it.

And also she doesn't want to hear it, I guess. I don't know.

Yeah. No, I'm excited to watch.

Sorry, I'm behind on that. There's definitely, it's a little bit calculated on Angie's part to not share it with Mary. That isn't just about grief. I do kind of honor that that might be a part of it. I don't know if I had a friend who just, like, lost their son or lost someone really close to them that I'd want to start, like, sharing the most difficult things going on in my life right like I would feel very conscientious about that and right like part of like why therapists don't disclose their own stuff even if it's similar is you don't want to feel like someone else is having to take care of you in a moment that you're meant to be creating space.

For them and so I yeah but I mean as someone who's like gone through things in my life I would say like i would hate if my friend was like not sharing big things in their life because they were like.

I don't think i would like that because also that's why i'm.

Saying i also get why mary would be really upset like hey i'm your friend why would like that's shitty that you're not sharing.

And also it's like you don't want to sit in your grief and just talk about yourself during that period you want to talk about other things so i don't know i think bravo is on fire right now. I'm happy with everything. I'm excited for Southern Charm to be back. I'm excited to watch Southern Monster and just kiki about it because it looks ridiculous.

I heard that Craig doesn't talk in it.

That's going to be amazing. It's going to be like Beauty and the Beast but way more twisted. why did Bravo waste their money on this? I don't know. We shouldn't be getting another season of Miami, another season of ladies in London, another season of.

There's so much girlfriends of Paris. Yeah.

Then why we were getting, I am just like, also like, because I work in entertainment and on LA, the micro draw, the micro everything is just, it went from zero to a hundred because it was a place of growth in.

An industry that is not growing.

Yeah.

But just don't like just don't just stop.

I don't want to.

Be part of this. I want no parts of this. I actually like the model more of like what Dorothy Wang.

Did with her.

Wedding she just kind of put out her own docu soap on youtube i want to see more of that because there's so many good docu soaps that aren't getting across the line right now that could be produced cheap interesting whatever for youtube and but we do need like money so if you're an investor and want to like invest in docu soaps just like you know send your money to jenny um but the bravo fan fest i like the concept of like hitting these smaller cities having a smaller thing and not doing bravo con every year because that'd be way too much but i thought miami was more successful i didn't think that charleston generated as much interest um and not because of the place or even the people involved it was more of just didn't

Nothing they revealed or anything was that exciting or interesting. But yeah, they're going to have BravoCon next year in Las Vegas again. Someone get us free tickets.

Someone talk to the Bravo execs and let them know we are interesting and funny and nice. We will support. We would love a panel.

Yeah, let's just jump right into a panel, actually.

Psychology. How do you promote a panel? For other creators who have gotten panels, how did you get that?

So I hope you enjoyed our chaos.

This was not as chaotic as usually we get, like, more spicy.

I feel like the time change. Did you have a good Halloween? Oh, God, yeah. We were also out so late last night doing Halloween. One of Ezra's friend's moms had, like, a Halloween party at her house and was making apple cider margaritas. They were so good. And then she also made all this really good Halloween candy. bread that looked like a mummy and cheese that looked like a ghost and she doesn't have Instagram so I was going to take pictures of it all and pretend that I made it but then I realized that was wrong I was going.

To say, isn't it so great to go to somebody's house that like did all that and you didn't have to, but you.

Get the pictures. It was great. Yeah. And I felt so bad when we left. I was like, should I help you clean? And she's like, no, just go. And I was like, okay, bye.

Honestly, you don't really want to help people to help clean.

Like when I have people over, I'm like, just leave so I can get in my pajamas and like.

Eat the leftover food by myself. I love going to all of my children's friends' apartments just to see what their homes look like.

That was kind of a good part about, like, in L.A.

Too.

Because, like, a bunch of people, like, opened their houses and stuff and their garages.

And I was like, what's going on in there?

We had our first, like, actual Halloween. And the cul-de-sac was hopping. And I, like, some woman came up and was like, you want to do a shot?

And I was like, yes. And then I was like, I'm doing shots with.

Strangers and my children.

They're not strangers. They're your neighbors. They are. Those are your neighbors. That's your community. Yeah.

That is a community fact.

You know where they live, so it's not like they're strangers. That's true.

I need to work on my community.

You know what?

This is the first year I'm really struggling living in LA.

I'm going to be honest. I just don't feel like.

It's because we had babies at the same time. I didn't get to let them... Be together. Be together.

I'm really struggling.

I'm struggling with, like, so many aspects of it.

But, like, yeah, I just feel like I don't have, like, interesting conversations either.

And I sound, like, so elitist.

But, like, you know, when you talk to people and then you're just, like, you're just not, like, comprehending things on the level that I'm comprehending things. And so we're just not, like, your conversation's not challenging me because it's just, like, giving an answer that.

Like, anyone on the internet would give.

Oh.

I am actually having the opposite feeling. I feel like I've always wanted to like, or at least since I've had children, I've just like been wanting to like leave New York. I'm like so sick of it. Living in a small apartment with children, subways, it's difficult to drive. And I finally have found, like, a community of parents that, like, I love and are interesting and funny. And I especially have one, like, friend that I've become really close with.

And I've just, like, shout out to Rachel because she listens. Oh, yay!

Shout out, Rachel.

And I just have, like, a nice community of, like, friends who are interesting and funny and cool and funny. I'm like, oh, now you don't want to leave. And now my husband's angry with me because he's like, I thought we were leaving. You sold me a dream that now I finally I'm bored about. Now you want to stay, you bitch. Sorry, Jake. I love you.

If you have a great community that you live in, like we are taking recommendations.

Yeah, we need some recommendations. Where should me and Jenny move to start our commune homes?

And we'll podcast every day when we do.

Things that we need are a liberal population of people, progressive liberals. Super liberal, yes. We need creatives. We need.

Like hippie vibes. Moderate seasons.

Moderate seasons, yeah. Not too cold, but we'll take some seasonal changes. Diversity. Like warm people.

Yeah.

So.

Let us know if you live in that community. Yeah, I mean, that's really easy. And not too expensive. Yeah, not too expensive. Because we're also poor. That's the hard part.

That's the hard part.

Because what I'm finding is all the places we want to buy houses where it's, like, cool to live, it's too expensive.

Well, yeah, because everyone wants to live there. We're willing to start up.

Yeah, we'll do a startup. If it's got some of the makings of some of that, we're willing to, like, Bring people, yeah. If you build it, they will come.

They will come.

All right.

Well, stay tuned. We're going to have a pod next week.

We'll be a little more structured, a little more focused. Like we said, let us know if you hear this in time to give us some thoughts about... The women who enable men. And then we also have an episode coming up in a couple more weeks about crime and Bravo. That'll be fun and interesting. And we're thinking about maybe talking about Wendy. So if you have thoughts about that, you can send us some of those too.

Yeah.

And Jen Sean's going to come up in that probably. For sure. I want to.

Rewatch some of those scenes. You know, I'm easily gullible, I think also.

Anyways, free Elizabeth Holmes. That's all I got to say. I don't know if I condone that. I don't know if I condone that.

Well, when you watch the movie, just text me either don't free Elizabeth Holmes or do free Elizabeth Holmes.

Oh, God. Well, you know I'm going to have a more nuanced opinion than that.

That'll be the jumping off point.

Got it. Got it. All right, y'all. Thank you.

Tune in next week. Bye.

Chaos Episode: Bravo Fan Fest Recap!

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