The Secret Weapon You NEED When Going Through Divorce

0:00 Thank you.

0:19 Hello, welcome back to I Do Part Two. It's Bachelor Nation alum Courtney Robertson taking over and I am excited. Today, I get to pick the brain of a woman who maybe has one of the most unique jobs I've ever heard of. She's a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator. Yes, please sign me up. She hosts the podcast, The Ugly Truth of Divorce. Help me welcome back to our show, Samantha Boss.

0:47 How's it going?

0:50 I've never been better. How are you?

0:52 That sounded fake. I'm good.

0:56 All right.

0:57 So welcome back to our show, Samantha Boss. Samantha, will you marry me? I know you have been through a high-conflict divorce yourself. I've heard you were involved in over, what, 300 filings and cost over $ 100, 000. I'm only a few months into mine, and we just spoke briefly before we hit record. But I can already understand how things get so out of control, really. Yeah. But I mean, so you've been through a very... I know you don't like the word contentious. I've listened to all of your podcasts, which you are doing the Lord's work because it's helped me.

1:36 It's also like something that I don't know that I want to share because... I don't know. Like you're a secret weapon to a lot of people. Right.

1:44 I know. And I just had a case the other day where I found out both sides were using me at the same time, which I think is a blessing. At least you've been, you know, both people have been well-versed on what I think are the expectations of how to do this. But yeah, I went through a high conflict divorce. It was a couple of decades ago. I've helped a lot of people since then. And I've learned a lot. I think with age comes perspective and wisdom.

2:07 And I've raised one whole set of kids who being a divorced parent and now they're 22 and 20 and they're part of my business and helping parents understand what kids are going through in a high conflict dynamic. And then now with my unicorn husband, Bear, I have two small children. So I have like a whole new, I've never raised kids with somebody before that actually loves and respects me. So this is a whole new wheelhouse having two more kids with somebody and doing it together versus a single parent in a high conflict dynamic. So I've seen both sides of the coin. I've been on both sides of the table. And I just feel like I have a lot to share and a lot of wisdom to give other parents that are going through a divorce

2:43 in general, but also a divorce that might be high conflict where both parties aren't getting along.

2:47 Well, up to date here, I just want to share, I filed on July 4th, Independence Day.

2:55 I've got three little kids.

2:56 If you're here, you've probably heard the last couple episodes I've done, but we are not getting along to say the least. The locks were changed. I have an order of protection. I haven't had any of my belongings. I have since established a new residence. And I feel, like I said earlier, you don't like the word high conflict or narcissist. I've listened to all of your episodes, which if you're going through this, and obviously my situation's a little bit different because I am somewhat in the public eye and I've talked about it. And you kind of touched on the fact that you went through this decades ago.

3:31 Decades ago.

3:32 So you were probably like, what, on the MySpace side of things?

3:36 It was definitely the MySpace. Facebook had just come out. I Facebook was like brand new. And so all of social media nowadays, I can't even imagine the ploy to want to put stuff on the internet because it's how we live every day. We're posting pictures of our kids. We're doing stories on Instagram. Like we're sharing what we eat, how, where we go and the divorce is part of your life.

4:01 But I can't imagine posting it. And I see it all the time. I'm all over social media myself and I'm, I'm consumed by with the amount of parents going through a divorce with a custody battle, contingents and high conflict on top of that, that are posting about it and talking about it and not in a like, man, I'm going through something, But can you believe what my ex did?

4:22 And here's a text message screen and a screenshot of it. And here's what happened yesterday. I cannot imagine the fallout that that could possibly have on a negative level in your case, because we have to think about in a custody battle in family court, you have a judge determining what happens with your future, with your children and your finances.

4:43 And this judge is purely going off of their instinct, their judgment, what they see and what they hear and how they feel that day. And that's a very scary thing if you're getting a judge that's a baby boomer, a Gen X, and maybe they're not into social media. And then they hear about how you've made 17 posts in the last two months about your ex in a negative light, they may judge you for that. And that's not how I wanna lose my kids just because I made a post. So I am always telling parents, get a best friend, get in a support group, have another way to vocalize what's happening to you, to seek your validation, to seek your peace, to get your story out, or just journal it, or take notes about it now and

5:26 think once you're finally like after the divorce and you're regulated, then maybe if you still feel compelled to post and tell your story, okay, I waited till my kids were way into their teenage years and 18 before I told my story. And I had to have their permission to because it was my story is their life. And so there had to be this understanding that I'm going to put some stuff out there that doesn't paint our whole family as a great light, me included, them included. And so I just really edge of caution to any parent listening, really stop and think. How will this play out in my court battle? But also what will my kids think when they're 32 and sitting with me at a restaurant and they ask a question of, hey, why did you

6:08 post our whole childhood on the internet?

6:11 That raises a really.

6:12 Good point because my kids are somewhat on my social media and I blocked my ex on social media because of the order of protection and harassment and those sort of things. And I have a podcast that is, I have spoken about this to help other people, but like you were talking about being regulated, I am still very much in the thick of it. I'm actually currently coming off of day five with the kids and we're going to get there. But I want to talk about the fact that you're remarried because I keep telling people I would, it's so easy to get married and it's so, I am bleeding money. It's so expensive, stressful. Talk about pooping your pants. I mean, holy mackerel, good night. But- you got remarried. How long did that take? Because people keep saying,

7:03 never say never, Courtney. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I never plan on getting married again. Could you speak to that a little bit?

7:11 I think it's a couple of things. I think first and foremost, when you're going through a divorce and co-parenting journey, especially reestablishing yourself alone in a home and taking care of all the things and work and getting yourself regulated again, but also figuring out why didn't this work the first time?

7:25 What about me? Did I enable, what did I not see? What did I not, what am I not okay with? Or did I have growth and we weren't just compatible anymore? I think being able to look and do your own self work is key to ever even thinking about moving on. And then there's the whole concept of is the person I'm picking even compatible with me and my kids and the dynamic that how we run the show. I mean, when, when I met bear.

7:48 I love that name.

7:50 Does he look like.

7:51 He's six, five to 60? He he's sexy. He was a 37 year old bachelor, never married, no debt, no crazy exes. He's a unicorn. And me having two kids, a crazy ex-husband, a whole situation of being in and out of court, total debt out my ass because of court.

8:12 Who would, who would want me?

8:13 But here's the deal. I found him because I was in the prime peak condition of myself. My body was good. My mind was good. My heart was good. My savings was starting to grow. My debt was starting to decrease. I felt good. I didn't need anybody at that point. I was doing all the things I was mowing the yard and doing the house and all of it. And I was really confident. And so in walks this eye candy five years younger than me. And I was like, yeah, you'll be fun to around with for a while or play with for a while. And it turns out he wanted kids and he didn't know that about himself. But I think the key to all of that was I was right with myself and I didn't need anyone. And then when he came in, he complimented my situation and

8:50 he jumped right in with the kids. He stayed in the backseat. And this is what I love to talk about. Bear was really good about staying in the backseat until I said, hey, join me in the front seat of parenting. He stayed in the back and watched. Yeah, he stayed back and watched. And I pulled him in sometimes when I had to take a bathroom break and leave the car, he would jump in. But for the most part, he stayed in the back seat and observed for a long time because their dad was still in their life. But then when their dad left and it was just us, I moved him up to the front seat and man, he was ready to go. So I think it's finding somebody that fits you and your situation, but you gotta know who the hell you are first. And I think

9:26 when we jump from man to man, we just chameleon ourselves to whatever they need and we fix them and we jump into their lives. Bear jumped into our lives and he adapted to what we were already doing as a mom with two kids running the show. He just kind of was a good compliment to our lives. So, but it wouldn't have worked if I wasn't ready yet.

9:48 I had to get myself right. 10 years. I single parented for 10 years before I ever let anybody in the car. Okay.

9:54 That makes, okay.

9:56 That, okay.

9:56 Well, and I'm 43.

9:57 I dated.

9:58 Did you have fun dating? What was that like again? Because I've been getting asked out on dates. I took my ring off. It's also the digital age now where there's dating apps. God, I am not getting on the dating apps. No.

10:10 Oh, God, no. It's ridiculous what you will get. I mean, any woman that jumps on a dating app just gets bombarded. And it's shocking how... repulsive that can be. But I think for me, I don't mind dating through divorce. I don't mind dating through a beginning co-parenting journey, but you're not ever going to really meet your match because you're not who you need to be yet. When you're going through the divorce process, you're in survival mode. You're in fight or flight. Most of the time you're dysregulated most of the time. And that's not, you're going to end up tracking someone that's dysregulated. And doesn't have their life together either because yours isn't. You match what you're giving.

10:44 So if you're putting off and you're in a season where you're not put together, you're going to attract not put together. And that's not who you want long-term. So there's nothing wrong with dating and playing around, but I'm not introducing my kids until I'm regulated and meet somebody that is also regulated.

10:58 Oh, gosh.

10:59 Well, you guys are both unicorns. So congratulations.

11:02 Well, thank you. We've done a lot of work to get here.

11:05 Well, that's where I'm at.

11:06 I'm in the rebuilding phase. And, you know, I am definitely very much in the thick of it. Somebody, you know, I don't want to share too much, but I have been like, you know, it's been really hard navigating this transition as far as like 50-50 time with my kids. And this is something that I would really like to dive into is regulating them because now they're in a new house. I'm the one that had to move. I'm the one that's ostracized from my own residence and I'm bleeding money on a new house. I had to furnish it and attorney's fees, et cetera. I also might need to switch attorneys at some point because it's a little.

11:50 I don't know. I feel like the needle hasn't been.

11:51 Moved at all, but that's a side note. But so the hardest part for me, I've had some good days where I'm like, I feel like myself, I don't have anxiety. Like I haven't thrown up from anxiety or, you know, I don't sleep well at night because you wake up and, you know, I'm also dealing with infidelity. I've been with this man for eight years. I live in Arizona. It's a no fault state. There have been things drug into the, and also I'm dealing with an attorney. He has brought things into the divorce filing that happened before I even knew him.

12:25 Right. That's a very big strategy in a divorce for anybody where when someone feels that you're going to change their life, you ask for a divorce.

12:33 Yeah.

12:34 You, anybody that does that to their partner, you're asking them to change their whole life, not just their household, not just not seeing their kids, but their label. They're a married man and now they're not a married man. And then there's question of a, why aren't they married? And so that identity of like what happened is going to be labeled onto them and they don't want that.

12:54 It's a narrative shift is the way that I, there's a narrative shift.

12:58 How they're being perceived. And show is a big deal for any man, for anybody going through divorce. I mean, you were also a mom and a married wife and you had the house and you had it all. And now you're a single mom and a new residence. And so back to your original question about the transitions. It's very hard for kids to transition from dysregulation to dysregulation.

13:18 Meaning if he's upset at his house and they're having to walk on eggshells and pins and needles, and then they come over to your house and you're super anxious, lack of sleep, and you're paranoid about everything, kids are like, oh my gosh, nobody I'm around feels like a warm blanket. Everybody feels like ice.

13:32 I could cry right now thinking about it. It takes me two days just to get them regulated.

13:40 And that's normal. And that's normal. And everything you've said is normal. That's called jet lag.

13:44 You know, they have their little jet lag parenting hangover. What did they call it?

13:48 Did you call it?

13:49 You said something like kids get little emotional hangovers too. Yes.

13:53 And they're over there and maybe there's not a nightlight like they always had, or there's something uncomfortable or just the smell of you is not there. And that's a lot for them to get used to. So they're getting used to it right now. And they don't know how to self-soothe. They don't know how to self-love over there.

14:07 They're not getting all the things they normally got over there. And then they're coming back to you literally on an empty tank. And so when it takes two days, that's you pouring and filling in their tank again of whatever love language is missing, maybe food is missing. you know, their, their favorite Snuggie or their show or their iPad they haven't had or whatever it is, their regulation is off.

14:27 And so your job when they come home, mom is to be regulated. But the key takeaway here is you have to be regulated to be able to pour into them. Otherwise you're just pouring dysregulation into them. You're pouring anxiety and chaos into their cup. And then they're like, uh, this doesn't feel good either. Like, can somebody in my life get their shit together? And I want to feel calm, like a warm blanket. So it's really important for your listeners to understand when you go through divorce, you have to find ways to cope with your stress because you can't have your kids walking in the door after being gone for two days and being like, okay, what kind of mom am I walking into? Is she anxious? Is

15:00 she tired? Is she grouchy? Is she moody? Or this is my least favorite one. And if this hits a nerve, I'm sorry. But the needy mom, the mom that says, oh my gosh, I miss you so much. Like, oh my gosh, I've been so lost without you. I can't believe you've been gone for two days. And the kid is like, look, I'm walking in the door empty already from being at the other house. And now I'm walking in and you're empty mom. And now I have to pour into what little I have left into you and be like, Oh, I missed you too. Oh, I love you.

15:29 Oh my gosh. It was so boring without you. I hated being gone from you too. I can't believe I have to go over. And now this kid is validating your feelings. I don't like that mom. I want that mom to be like, Hey, let me know when you're ready to talk. Let me know if you did anything cool. Otherwise I'm here in the couch. If you want some snuggles, I'm here. Let the kids catch their bearings when they walk in instead of being empty yourself. And then they're having to pour into you.

15:50 That is such great advice. And I usually, because we're, you know, this is something I've learned. I'm not an attorney. I'm surrounded by them. Yes. And I initially, you know, we don't have a court-ordered parenting plan.

16:02 I don't want to hear that. Every listener, when you separate and leave homes and you separate, everybody should have a temporary order from day one. That's not legal advice. That's common sense parenting 101, especially in a high conflict dynamic.

16:13 But look at my jaws on the floor. So I propose, and by the way, I'm dealing with an attorney. So I initially proposed a 223 He has pushed and pushed for a 5-2-2-3, which I'm learning on the fly. It's like learning to be a mom. You learn as you go. And you talking about regulating them, it's really hard. My batteries are charged when I get them because I know what's going to happen later.

16:36 I don't bad mouth the dad.

16:37 Um, I, you know, but I hear things that have been picked up at the other house, which also hurts me, hurts me, severs me, or what the mother-in-law said, or they have, you know.

16:50 What we, that's by design though. Let's remember that that's by design. The other side, anybody of high conflict status, again, you changed their life by saying to the world, I want a divorce. So the only way to make the pain stop is to make your pain greater. And the way to do that is to talk about you in a negative light, casually, purposefully, it doesn't matter, in front of the children. They walk back over to your house.

17:13 They repeat what they've heard, casually or directly.

17:15 Hurts me.

17:16 It hurts you. And you have to realize you can't take that personally. That's by design to throw you off. Because then what happens? You get upset, whether emotionally or just angry. And now you're performing not to your capacity as mom. And now you're altering who you are at your house in front of them. And the kids are like, wow, mom's being really edgy. She's really grouchy or wow. She won't stop crying. And now you're not performing.

17:39 I think it's a tactic though.

17:41 Don't you think?

17:41 Oh, a hundred percent because you hurt them with a divorce. So they're going to keep hurting you. My ex-husband hurt me for a decade.

17:48 Oh, so you're telling me there's a chance. I want to get this wrapped up by the end of the month, but I'm realizing at just when I see Samantha, the light at the end of the tunnel, I get kicked again. I get kicked while I'm down.

18:01 Well, it is, it is by design because they want to drag out the process because that means it's a slow death by a thousand cuts on you bleeding money. They know that because that's what happens. They'll bleed you for money. That way you just make a rampant decision at the end that you aren't really wanting, but you're broke.

18:17 So you have to make the decision. That's why the family court system is so screwed up. It's why judges and lawyers make all this money and us parents walk away broke. I mean, I spent that $ 100, 000 in 2008, 2009, 10. So now that would be like $ 300, 000 with the way things are charging now.

18:31 Well, I'm already up to about $ 10, 000 and I don't even have a judge court ordered parenting plan.

18:38 Well, to me, that's a fault of your attorneys of also knowing that you guys are people of upper level and they can. And they're going to want you to have conflict so therefore they can keep the money coming out and keep it coming out. Because I'm going to tell you, as somebody that's been doing this for over a decade, they don't do this to poor people as often.

18:55 They don't drag things out. They wrap those people up pretty fast.

18:57 Well, I've had a couple of stern conversations and I'm smarter than I look. Um, to be quite honest, I'm sorry to say that, but I've, I mean, we've, we live in an age where I can look online and I can see things and, but I feel like he's depleting me so much because something you talked about in one of your episodes is like, he knows me really well.

19:20 He knows how to push my buttons and I know, but I know how to push his and I know how to, you know, and we were touching about like, um, touching on the kids needing their mom and being nurtured. I'm a little bit more of a free spirit. I call this the fun house. That was a huge point of different parenting styles. And I wouldn't, I'm not going to use the word narc, but more like extreme OCD.

19:44 I think a lot of men have that yeah where it's like I'm gonna I want my kids to be kids like if they want to paint if they want to go play outside I'm not going to stress too much about the cleanup so that's just like a little a little look and look see into that but they come here and for example when I picked them up you know, we've been doing a 5-2-2-3, which I'm actually suggesting a 2-2-3.

20:08 That's what I really want.

20:10 And my mother's intuition told me that's better because then we can coordinate, you know, a little interaction with him. Like we can, all kids are at three different schools. And I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. Three drop-offs, three pickups. But early days, I picked the kids up from school and he had had them for I think that was when we were doing two, two, three, both my boys were so, so sick and I've been ostracized.

20:38 So I don't have all the things that I need, medicine, thermometer, all this stuff. I had to take them to urgent care. And they, I mean, that was so hard for me. It was like, I got left with two sick kids and these are the signs that I think the mother always sees.

20:53 So, yeah.

20:54 Yeah.

20:55 And I, and I think Anytime that like you get put out of the house, you have to restructure really fast and have everything that you need in your own home.

21:01 And it's so expensive though.

21:04 It is. Oh, but that's by design as well. It's not by accident that you got taken out of the home, you know, and all of this for all of you listening, this is for. This is their strategy is because they want to make you feel like you're always on your heels. You're always from behind. You're struggling financially so that when you throw some when he throws something on the table as an offer, whether that be a parenting plan or whether that be a financial affidavit of whatever's happening with your finances, you're grasping at every straw. So you're like, fine, I'll take it. And it's gonna be a low ball offer.

21:35 I mean, it should be. That's the strategy behind family court. Always start low and you're gonna go from there and it's negotiation 101. And they go low, I go lower. Right, but this is the deal with you guys as attorneys or anybody's attorney. At the end of the day, every single parent who's getting a divorce is going to end up with two things. A parenting plan, which is a playbook of how you will finish raising your children. So your youngest child is two. So what are you doing for the next 16 years of raising these children together.

22:05 And then part two is the financial package. And for me, if you have said on 4th of July of this year, which was how many months ago when this is airing?

22:13 Independence Day.

22:15 You want a divorce. Why have you not have any parenting plan? Because here's the scariest thing that has.

22:19 Happened to a lot of- I'm the only one that has suggested parenting plans.

22:23 Well, your attorneys are letting conflict keep happening. They're letting you try to have to be fighting and arguing and talking. And if you're not talking to each other, who are you using? Oh, you're using your overpriced attorneys to talk everything out. So every time you have a change of pickup time or, hey, somebody's sick, you have to use your attorney. And I don't think they're using those transporting information calls for free. So every time you talk, they love that. Where if you guys had a temporary order, it would be a lot simpler and a lot more things would be resolved through that. And it'd be less money and financial loss with your attorneys. But again, this is where attorneys love for us parents to be dumb.

22:58 They don't want us to know anything about divorce or custody, you know, how it plays out. And that's how I build all my classes. And that's why people love me because I'm putting education back in common sense, back into our hands of when you split, there's nothing saying that when you take the kids over there next week, that he keeps them.

23:14 There's nothing saying he can't.

23:15 Because there's no parenting plan. There's no legal document saying that he can't keep those kids.

23:21 There is.

23:22 Just like if you kept them for all next week and didn't do the exchanges, there's nothing saying. A handshake agreement does not stand up in court. You sending a text message saying, yeah, I agree to Tuesdays, doesn't stand up in court. This is why temporary orders are so important. So if you are establishing something right now of a 2-5 or whatever you're doing, then let's put it on paper and at least lock in. The five things that you guys should always be doing in temporary orders is, is whatever the schedule should be, start time, end times, always.

23:50 What's happening with decision making during this interim period of the divorce? Are you joint? Can mom make decisions at her house? What are you doing for decision making? What's happening to any extracurriculars that the kids are going to be in? Are we keeping up with daycare? Are we keeping up with tap class, ballet class, whatever? What's happening with the house and what's happening with the money? And anybody that doesn't put that in a temporary order is just trying to take your money. I'm sorry. I'm saying it. Attorneys, we're tapping into you. We know what you're doing. You're creating conflict to where you're the only person that can be called, to where we are all broke, to where we live on everything that you say. And the second

24:25 the person with the most money says something, we take it because we're so broke. That's what happens across the board in high conflict cases everywhere. All in family court. I see it all the time. And that's why I'm trying to educate people about, no, as a parent, you should have a temporary order. As a parent, here's what belongs in your parenting plan. Because even if you get divorced, Courtney, in two years from now, because it's probably going to take about two years, just so you know.

24:48 Wait, excuse me?

24:50 Yeah. 12 months to about 36 months is the average divorce in high conflict, especially people that have status or money or both. Because people love to drag it out. And by people, I mean attorneys. You're paying for their kids to go to college and not your kids because they will keep you on the payroll for as long as possible. And they'll pump the brakes on things and make things go slow. And oh, no, we can't do it temporary yet.

25:10 Oh, no, no.

25:11 Yes, you can. You can do it temporary when you're living together.

25:13 This is why we need you. This is why you need a divorce coach like you. Can people hire you?

25:20 Well, I got so big that I couldn't help people one-on-one. So what I've done is developed a couple of things. The masterclass is just for me, educating people. What is a parenting plan? I love just people going and listening to me talk for a few hours and they get a workbook with that. And they just learn about divorce.

25:34 They learn about lawyers. They learn about mediation. They learn about the process. I mean, most of us don't learn until we're knee deep in it. And we're having to learn from four pages of And we're like catching up really fast.

25:43 I'm like in Shawshank Redemption right now. I'm like climbing.

25:47 It's a battle. I feel like I'm at war.

25:50 And I loved when you said something like, you got to train for it.

25:55 You don't just go to war and say like, Oh, here, take your coffee.

25:59 Absolutely. And I think people, if you know you're on your way out with divorce, go get an education first before you even start the process. And I want people to be writing their parenting plans right after they take the masterclass. Let my team build your parenting plan. Again, that playbook of what you're going to use for the next 16 years, because here's why I'm going to take that playbook, aka parenting plan, to every attorney and say, do you like this? Do you like this? And the one that says yes is going to be the one I hire because the ones that say no, oh no, Courtney, I don't like the idea that you went ahead and wrote the end product of your divorce, the parenting plan.

26:34 I don't like that you thought for yourself. I don't like that you thought for your children or your future. They want you to be blind. They want you to go into it nah, you don't even know what you're talking about. We'll keep you stupid because then we can keep your money and we can keep taking it from you.

26:46 Where I want people to interview with the parenting plan.

27:00 This is like mind blowing. So everybody can go to your course. I'm going to sign up. I'm going to run, not walk, but also your podcast is also incredible.

27:08 Thank you.

27:09 And this is the stuff that they don't warn you about before you get married. Even I never, I would have never gotten married. thinking that this would happen or I mean I didn't even think about parenting plan think I've been researching it but like education religion like basic things what are what are some of the things that that stand out to you that are like high conflict like like you know we were touching on 50 50 and like I'm already so sad Halloween is this month and like Christmas I keep I posing it as like, you have two Christmases where you're going to have two Christmas trees. So, but yeah, what, what would you say like the things that stand out the most as far as like high conflict parenting plans?

27:51 People always fight about decision-making and most attorneys are going to give you 50, 50 joint legal custody and any major decision you both have to talk about and you both have to agree. And what I say to that is great, Larry, that's awesome. How about the 90% of the time that we don't agree? What's the plan then?

28:08 You know, like I, these attorneys that either have not lived this life or they know it and they just love charging you for it because once you're divorced and there's something like, Hey, we both have to agree on what school district or what daycare or what extracurricular or what, what religion our child gets baptized. When that decision comes up and one person says white and one Who do we have to call? Oh, we have to call Larry back and say, hey, Larry, turns out we can't get along.

28:34 Really shocking after this battle for two years to get divorced. It's no wonder we can't come to an agreement here. I think that's, again, common sense. You got two people that can't even sit together anymore. They can't even be in the same home anymore. They don't talk to each other in public anymore. How in the hell are they gonna do joint decision-making in the future? They're not going to.

28:53 So what we do in our parenting plan is we just make all the decisions. So for that two-year-old we have, We go through and we pick daycare, we pick schools, we pick extracurriculars, we pick it all. And we put it in that parenting plan. So decision-making is number one, that people get robbed in their parenting plan by just vague language that attorneys love because they get to stay on the payroll. Number two is the details around time.

29:12 People in parenting plans, they don't put times down. They just put days or what holiday. And they don't put a start time and an end time. Well, if Halloween this year doesn't fall on your day.

29:22 It doesn't. And I think that was intentional. It's my favorite holiday.

29:27 That's a bargaining chip later that if that is a holiday you truly want, then you give him an alternate holiday. Hey, I always want Halloween. You can always have this one.

29:34 I've been trying and he just ignores. And I love what you talk about, like in, you know, because I have an order of protection. He cannot email me. He ignores all of my requests.

29:44 Yeah.

29:45 And I'm like, I've requested Halloween. I've requested Halloween, but it doesn't fall.

29:49 Doesn't matter. He's never going to give it to you because why? You changed his life. So therefore he wants to hurt you. He knows you love Halloween. He knows who you are. So here's what we do. Here's the workaround with that. And this is a workaround for any holiday that's coming up because when we're recording this, it's in October and the next 90 days are going to be heavy holidays. We got Halloween. We have Thanksgiving. We have Christmas. We have fall break, winter break.

30:11 Which also means in-laws as well.

30:14 Right. But what we do here is anytime we have a high conflict dynamic where someone knows that something's important to you, Christmas morning, Halloween, your Thanksgiving, everybody comes and there's 40 people there.

30:25 They know that.

30:27 So they're purposely always, they can't help themselves. This is a drug to them to cause chaos or to tell you no. So first and foremost, back to the five things that are wrong in parenting plans is you got to have detail around when is it your holiday time and when is it not? So specific times of when it starts and when it ends so that you know when to plan your things. But here's the little trick to this. you always have to celebrate early. So if Halloween is your jam, you better be going to a trunk or treat on Sunday.

30:53 Oh, you should see what I'm looking at right now.

30:54 We've been painting pumpkins since September.

30:58 So one thing that you have to remember is it's not about the holiday. It's about the experience or the memory. So when you ask my kids who have been divorcee kids since they were one in three.

31:07 Is that a technical term? A divorcee kids.

31:10 I like that.

31:10 That's what I've been using for the decades is But here's the deal. When it came to all the Christmases that I have with my children, I have my kids every Christmas and when they open presents and they had the stocking stuffers, they had the works, but was it on the 25th? Hell, if I know, and I'll tell you, they couldn't remember either, but they know that they celebrated Christmas with me. It could have been on the 23rd.

31:29 It could have been on the 24th, the 26th. Hell, some, I think some years it was the 27th. It's not about the day. It's about the experience. And so don't get all butthurt when you're building your parenting plan and you're like, I want Halloween. Well, the best you're going to get is every other Halloween. So on the year that you don't have it, you go do something fantastic. Now, again, like I said, you could customize it and say that you do get every Halloween and maybe he gets every Thanksgiving and it's a wash, but here's the deal. You said something earlier. I want to go back to, we have to stop going to our ex and thinking they're going to agree with us.

31:59 They hate us.

32:01 They don't like us. So every time you go to him through your attorney, he's going, huh?

32:05 Huh? Stupid.

32:06 She just paid for her attorney to come ask me a question. The answer is still no. No, I'm not doing Halloween. No, I'm not doing Halloween. No, it's going to be no every time, but you just lost how much money asking your attorney to ask him. They do nothing without a court order. So until you propose a whole package of what all the holidays look like, because why would he give you Halloween? when he could turn around and lose Thanksgiving and Christmas.

32:26 He doesn't care about Thanksgiving.

32:28 He, at one point before the, like years ago, he said to me one time, Courtney, you're not a homemaker. I said, don't say things to me that you can't take back. And that's why I think he changed the locks. Cause I've been slowly on like when I had access, taking the things that.

32:42 Built a home.

32:43 And I love that you're talking about like core memories and experiences because I personally feel like I've been the heart of the house and you know, on the kids and different in a way. I mean, he's a great dad, but he's been a very shitty husband.

32:58 Yeah. I don't like the term good dad when somebody is willing to do this to the dynamic.

33:02 I don't even have any chonies, but guess what?

33:04 I get to go buy new underwear.

33:06 Does a good dad lock mom out of the house and make his kids have to sleep God knows where? He didn't know where your kids were going to sleep when he locked you out of the house. So I don't know that that's a good dad. I don't think any parent that does that should be labeled as still a good parent, but shitty spouse. That's not showing and helping your other parent be a good parent either.

33:21 Well, I don't have spousal support or child support yet.

33:26 Because your attorneys have not court ordered it. Your attorneys need to court order it.

33:32 Well, I'm bleeding money over here. I'm broke as a joke.

33:36 A lot of Larrys will do this. I mean, there's temporary child support going out to hundreds of people every day that aren't divorced yet that get temporary child relief in the interim or everything stays status quo during the divorce, meaning whatever bills you paid and he paid stayed.

33:51 The same the whole time.

33:51 I'm starting to sweat.

33:52 I'm starting to sweat.

33:54 Yeah. And again, nothing... Nothing I'm saying is legal advice. This is just all the stuff that I hear over the decade of helping thousands and thousands of clients who go through the same thing. I've been on so many attorneys' podcasts. And attorneys either love me or hate me. Most of them that are doing God's work with me love me because they know I'm just educating people about what their rights are. As a parent, I'm just trying to get divorced.

34:16 That's it. And you are even willing to do 50-50.

34:19 I put a waste clause in. Our largest asset.

34:23 Which I think is the thing to also touch on, I don't know how much time we have here, is the house that I do not have access to anymore.

34:32 I'm on that. We don't have a prenup.

34:35 And he's going to have to buy me my interest out of the property. I am also a real estate agent. I tried to schedule an appraisal and he blocked it. And attorneys are going back and forth. Let's figure out a date.

34:49 And again, nothing will happen until a judge orders that appraisal. This is what high conflict people do. They do nothing until you spend money with an attorney to get a judge to tell them to do it.

35:09 So when you were talking about the parenting plan, nobody's talked to me about this.

35:13 Which blows my mind because that's the end product. That's what you're fighting for is the end product. I was at the.

35:18 Courthouse filling out on this little ridiculous computer.

35:22 For my order of protection. And by the way, this is just.

35:26 A piece of paper. Yeah.

35:27 Does nothing really.

35:28 Look how flimsy it is. They're like the judge. When I talked to the judge, I, you know, I'm dealing with infidelity and he's like, Courtney, don't bring that up. When you, whenever you talk to a judge, he goes, it doesn't matter. We're in a no fault state.

35:41 It really doesn't. It really doesn't. That's where you have to go get yourself right and get yourself healed.

35:45 Do you realize how much time this took me to get? and to like, I had to have pay for my, actually my neighbor watched the kids and it was, it was so stressful. Even just walking into a courthouse is stressful. Talk about anxiety.

36:01 Well, times that then, then try going to court for the first time ever and having someone look at you and judge you as your character as a parent, and then tell you what to do with their own children. You know, like it's a very nerve wracking thing. And so that way that in product of that parenting plan, you know, we've talked about decision-making, we've talked about the holidays and having strict time. The other thing is to make sure you talk about communication in your parenting plan, obviously with, with, any type of restraining order that anybody's has, that's only going to last so long. So what does communication look like for the next 16 years? Are you using a parenting app, which God bless you? I hope

36:33 you do because they weren't around whenever, you know, I.

36:36 Order protection is great because he can only email me about that. Can I flip him the bird? I don't think so.

36:42 That's probably not a good look.

36:44 Not why it's not going to look good for that boomer judge that you're probably going to have. So You got to make sure that we keep our side of the table really clean. But it doesn't mean we allow things to happen to us. But how will you be communicating for the next few years? And what does that look like? Are you always going to be using an app?

36:58 I think apps are just it should be just protocol that everybody uses the app. We're not on personal email or text. It's just all app and it's organized and it's kept right there. But money. Outside of child support and or alimony, if anybody is getting that, there are still expenses like maybe private school or daycare or extracurriculars that child support does not cover. So if you're receiving child support, but then your child wants to go do travel baseball that costs $ 6, 000 a year, who pays for that $ 6, 000? So is it both parties? What is listed in your parenting plan? And so many Larrys, Larry the Loser Lawyer, He does not include that because he wants you to have to call him back and say, hey,

37:40 my ex won't pay for baseball. And they're like, well, your parenting plan doesn't say so. Would you like to go back for a modification? We can add that clause in there for you.

37:48 Oh, sure.

37:49 For a mere $ 10, 000, you can add that clause in when it should have been added at the very beginning.

37:54 Well, I would love to... You mentioned tap downs. I want to get my daughter into gymnastics. That's expensive. And I had a little story here about soccer. I asked him not to sign... My kid's up for soccer this season and he did it anyway.

38:07 Every other weekend.

38:09 He did it because he knows it. You said not to, but he did it because there's nothing saying he can't. You have no temporary order.

38:15 But on my weekend, I haven't been taking him.

38:18 You don't have to. Yep.

38:19 And I put that in writing. And like, this is a perfect example. It's like, because I, you know, There has been infidelity, and I have talked about it publicly. Everywhere I go, people want to, what's going on? What's the latest? I'm like, listen to my podcast. But if I were him and I have done– like, I would want to put my head in the sand. Like, I can't believe he's even showing face. I personally do not– I didn't want him to do it even before I filed.

38:48 I said, Paloma hates soccer. Don't put her in soccer.

38:50 And he did it anyway. So on my weekends, I.

38:52 Haven't been taking him and it's just digging the knife in.

38:55 And you don't have to. And I would build your parenting plan in a way that neither one of you have to do anything until the kids are a certain age. Right.

39:02 We're talking about travel, baseball. My sister does that.

39:05 And it's like so crazy. That's like club sports.

39:09 Absolutely. And so who's paying for that when you're divorced? Do you both travel on those weekends? Do you take all the kids? Do certain kids stay behind and only the kid in the sport? There's very specifics that you need to have listed in your parenting plan for that. So, you know, and the other thing about this infidelity, and this is just me being a divorce coach, you, the more you bring that up, the more he's going to come for you. Because again, you're putting a label on him that he should. of. And instead of saying I screwed up, he's going to keep coming for you.

39:34 You know, Gosh, I just breathe it inside out.

39:37 I mean, this is a lot to process.

39:39 It is.

39:40 It is.

39:41 And it's a long process. It is a long process.

39:44 Two years?

39:45 I'm definitely going to move on in the next two years. But I guess switching gears, you have to be very resilient to go through this. I don't think divorce is for the faint of heart. I mean, there have been days where I'm like, I can't even get out of bed. But.

40:00 Sometimes staying married is easier.

40:02 Well, he, he wanted to reconcile and I really, everything you said today, I.

40:06 Just gobbled it up.

40:07 I laughed it up. I mean, I, and it will stick with me. I, you know, I think when you're in fight or flight, like things are like really that are of value, like right now, this conversation with you and think about how many people it's going to help, but are there some positive things that we have to look forward to on the other side?

40:25 I mean, just absolutely, you know, and I think, I think it's the, absolute time you get now being unconditioned and structured the way he wanted you to be in that home you know the walking on eggshells or the OCD or the cleanliness or like loud sounds or pick their toys up or make sure they look good you don't get to do that now we can eat in the living room we can leave out for two days we don't have to make our beds if we don't want.

40:50 To I wish you could see the artwork we just did splatter paint this morning.

40:54 And the kid when they drop something they they don't freeze. They're just like, oh, I dropped something. It's okay. People drop stuff. It's that recalibrating them. And then you get to know when they walk through that threshold of that door, that the sense of like the book bag comes off and they're like, oh, like I get to breathe here.

41:12 And so do you, you know what that feels like because you left, right?

41:15 Oh, I feel, and people keep saying like, are you okay? I'm like, I've never been better. I mean, apart from the divorce and the money and the this and that, I feel more like myself than I've Yeah.

41:27 I think there's just the sense of like, you're their home. You know, my, my, my big kids being part of my business, they have told hundreds of not thousands of people about what it would have been like for my mom to, you know, for them, for me to have had a divorce coach or for me to even have the educational piece. So I would have known what I was up against. I didn't know what a narcissist was.

41:46 I didn't know what a personality disorder was. I didn't know that someone could hurt you that you just slept with months ago. It blew my mind that someone would use my kids as a weapon against me. I didn't grow up with people like that in my life. So when it happened to me, I'm like, he's just an asshole.

42:02 And people were like, no, he's like a step above that.

42:04 And I'm like, that's not normal.

42:06 Yes.

42:07 Also, there's part of it.

42:08 That I'm like, I don't think people are going to believe me No.

42:12 Most people won't because it's unfathomable what happened to you or what's happening to you. And people think, you know, well, if you would just do this, I was the, if I just do this, he'll stop. If I just do this, he'll stop.

42:21 I have everything emails sent, listen to this podcast. I've tried everything. You just said something that I wish you could read this email that was like, I'm scared to communicate with you because I never know if you're going to explode or.

42:34 What I'm going to get.

42:35 So the good side is you teach your kids who they're going to be. And I think now with my kids being older, They're in college and they're out in the world. And now because of what they've went through, they can read people really well. They know who somebody like, that has a trait that looks very familiar. And I know what boundaries are. And I know how to have self-worth.

42:55 And I know how to love myself. And I know how to soothe because my mom taught me that. I think the one takeaway I want to give anybody listening going through divorce is at the end of the day, when you are divorced, you have an opportunity not just to provide for your children, but show them what living really looks like authentically. how you want to live. If you want to be a free spirit, be a free spirit.

43:14 If you want to be somebody that's super organized because that makes you happy, not because you were told to be, or you're.

43:20 Covering your tracks because you're lying.

43:23 Right. So I mean, you get to have the freedom to actually teach your kids and show them what good people are. And in that household, you were never going to be able to do that.

43:33 It was actually making me sick.

43:34 Filtering everything through his dynamic of what he wanted. And a lot of us did that. We put everything through the dad filter or through the high conflict parents filter. And then we go through this period of time when we first leave where we're like, I don't even know what my filter looks like. And then we find it and we find it after the divorce. And then the kids are better for it. You're better for it. And you end up finding your unicorn new husband and you have more kids and you're happy and you're blissful. And it's just great.

43:58 Well, Samantha, boss, you are the biggest unicorn. I hope everybody run, don't walk. I'm going to go do that for myself. Bear is a lucky man as well. And I've just loved connecting with you today. I'm going to meditate on all of this. I hope everybody enjoyed this episode. Go follow. We'll put all of your social media in the show notes. And hey, are you going through a high conflict divorce and needing some guidance? Email us or call us.

44:26 We are here to help.

44:27 All the info is in the show notes. So follow us on socials. Make sure to rate, review the podcast. Share it with somebody that it could help. I do part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.