How to write your story, with Kim Purcell

0:03 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's episode is going to be a slightly longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us. So today I am delighted to welcome Kim Purcell to Before Breakfast. Kim is a novelist. She has written the books Trafficked and This Is Not a Love Letter. She's also a teacher and the author of the new book, Write a Novel in 100 Days. Kim, welcome to the show. Hi, Laura.

0:39 Thanks for having me.

0:40 Well, I'm excited to have you here. The thing that I think is most interesting about this new book is it is not just like you too can be a writer. And like, here's how you should be, you know, you should be so excited about writing and like, you know, other such sort of, you know, motivational type posters on the wall, right? Like shoot for the stars. You know, it's, it's not that this is so granular about, about how you are actually going to write a novel in a hundred days. What was something like, did you, you were setting out to be a little bit different, right?

1:14 Well, no, I mean, honestly, it came from many, many years of teaching and trying to help people write their novels and people reading all the craft books out there, which are lovely and inspiring and sometimes very informative, but also overwhelming with no system and no step-by-step system. And I thought, gosh, we don't teach anything else that way. Nothing, only writing. Suddenly I'm going to give you a hundred million things to think about. And yeah, good luck. You're going to write a novel now. And it just doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way for anything we learn. Everything is scaffolded. If we really learn something in a deep way, you learn these sort of basic steps first. You're learning these skills and then you build

2:03 on those skills and you build on those skills. And what happens is people, I think, often start writing a book because they have an idea, but they don't even examine if the idea is good. And there are some really key elements that make a story good for a novel in that you will have the passion to keep writing right till the end. It's not just like, oh, I have this world in my mind or I have a character. We'll see where it goes. Generally, that goes to nowhere. It goes to the garbage bin.

2:36 Something has to happen, right? Like something has to actually happen with real stakes attached.

2:40 Right. So people are not productive with how they come up with their story idea. And I'm not saying you need a whole plan or a whole outline. I'm a big believer in there's a certain element of, you know, just winging it, being creative, being joyful in the writing and But with zero planning, like you don't know your characters, you don't know your world, you know, none of the major pillars of your story. Well, it's going to be a rewrite from scratch. So that is not the most productive way to write a book. And it's actually the least joyful way because you're so frustrated. You're writing and you're like, this is nothing like the books that I've read. Well, first of all, they've rewritten it and had it professionally edited.

3:24 So you're comparing your first draft to someone's, you know, 10th draft, which really doesn't work for anything, right? I mean, if you were a painter, I mean, the initial sketches for a painter are terrible. And so if you're, I think that a lot of people don't understand how to build their skills or how to scaffold from one draft to the next draft. So this book really helps, you know, this day you do this. And it takes this sort of decision making out of the process. You know, now you can let your imagination flow. You can really be like, okay, well, let me get in that imaginative dream. Let me get into my character's body. Let me really dive back into that past memory if I'm writing a memoir. Just let

4:15 me become. And that's when the writing is so amazing, like you've emptied yourself. And so in 15 minutes, you take this deep breath. You feel amazing. And you continue on with your day. But if it's, oh gosh, what am I going to write today? Oh, should I even sit down? I don't even have time. And then, you know, if you're doing it out of order, then you open your book, you've got 10 minutes. Oh, I guess I'll edit.

4:41 And editing is the opposite of what you should be doing mid first draft because we want to be moving forward so that the imaginative dream keeps going.

4:50 So one of the first things you have people do, and this makes so much sense to me because I've, you know, helped people with writing persuasive essays in the past. And I'm always like, okay, tell me in one sentence, what is your point? Like, do you come out for it or against it? And there's a very similar element with fiction, which is you want an elevator pitch for your book, right? I mean, why is this so important?

5:13 Well, it's really key for you to understand the directionality and your core principles thing that you're going for. And also, let's say you don't want to plot at all. Well, you do need to know who your main character, your protagonist is, right? You need to know what is that big moment that changes their life early in the story.

5:37 Because otherwise, you don't have a story. That's the whole thing. Aliens arrive. You grow wings. You... move to a new place, you start a new school, whatever, some impactful thing that completely transforms your life. And if you look at all the books that you've loved and read, there's that moment. And that gives your main character a goal that they got to pursue. And this goal needs to have kind of an external element. It can't just be, I want to, They want to be happy. Well, so does everybody. I mean, you know, they need to have some kind of thing that implies a sort of action, a goal that they would then pursue and that has stakes. If they don't achieve that goal, something bad's going to happen. So that

6:25 will give you kind of the meat that you need to chew on for your whole book. Of course, you can change that goal. And it does change sometimes at the midpoint or at the all is lost. So you hit these key pillars in your storytelling. You're running toward them or reacting from them. And that keeps that storytelling active and interesting and also prevents rewrites from scratch or you being like, I don't even know. I have like 500 pages and a big mess of a book. It's like the hoarder's version of writing. Like you have a...

7:06 you know, a chapter there, a chapter there. This happens because of lack of productivity tools and lack of organization, which ruins the creativity. In fact, sometimes we need that base in order to be able to be the most creative person we can possibly be. Absolutely.

7:26 Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Kim Purcell. Well, I am back talking with Kim Purcell, who is a novelist. She's written Traffic. This is not a love letter. She's also a teacher and author of the brand new book, Write a Novel in 100 Days, which we've been talking about crafting the elevator pitch for. Now, in your 100-day timeline, you have us spend the first 12 days planning out the plot. Now, why is that, you know, and in very specific ways, like, you know, these are sort of the scenes that are going to happen that where the various, you know, 22 plot points are going to happen in the course of this. Why is this so important?

8:13 Well, the very first four days are actually all about character and world. And even then moving into the next four days, we're still building that base. Everything comes from character. If you don't know that, you're not going to know your story at all. So it's just really the end of those 12 planning days that I really dive into plot.

8:39 And Now, some people might just do a single page synopsis, just a general idea of like, okay, this is sort of what's going to happen, act one, act two, act three, act four. Some people will really dive into the weeds and really like plan each key plot point and the scenes within it. So that allows a little bit of flexibility. Now, Some people won't want to do that level of planning because that's too stressful for them. They like to imagine.

9:10 They like to dream. Those are pancers. And absolutely, you can do that with this guide. It's not, you know, it's not prescriptive in that way. It's just kind of like a plate of cookies. Like you want to take the chocolate chip cookie. Great. And you don't want the peanut butter cookie. You put it. It's no big deal, right?

9:29 You just go, okay, not that. That part's not for me. I'm going to keep moving through. But, um, You know, but the plot points are very, very common in award-winning books and in best-selling books. And I researched hundreds of books and looked at what they do. And I'm not alone in this. A lot of these, some of these plot points are in other guides. Not quite as many.

10:00 because I found with my students having a few more markers, a few more, you know, moments for your characters to grow and shift and allowed for a which is really important so it doesn't get flat and boring. A lot of people talk about the muddy middle, but that's often because they don't even know that there should be a midpoint turn, a big shift so that the second half of your book feels remarkably different and more challenging to your main character than the first half where they're sort of learning and growing and pursuing their goal. And then they hit up against their fears and their misbeliefs and their flaws. And You know, just like for all of us, it's not easy. So your storytelling kind of mirrors life

10:51 in many ways. And that's why these key plot points are so common throughout so many of these stories that we all love.

11:00 Yeah, well, I think this is important for people that there is an architecture to a lot of storytelling. And, you know, yes, it can be done differently. But many of the most successful commercial novels are going to follow certain arcs, because that is what is sort of compelling for people to read. And you could save yourself a lot of trouble by having a story that follows a these general, you know, arc of plot points, you know, like the all is lost moment, the gathering, you know, allies around you kind of moment, you know, or the mentor checking in moment or whatever it is. Like there's these certain things that happen in a lot of these stories that is very helpful. Now you say you don't want us revising as we go. Why is that?

11:47 Well, you know, again, if we go back to productivity, that is anti-productivity and it actually hurts the creative process. So basically, you just have to think. We have kind of these two parts of our brain, the more analytical, more creative. And of course, there's a lot of crossover there. But what happens is if you are constantly thinking about like, ooh, how can I fix that? Even mid-writing. Well, you've just pulled yourself out of the imaginative dreams. And the imaginative dream is where you are deeply within the scene, so deeply you feel that you are not in your living room or you're not in the coffee shop. You are, in fact, in the dungeon or in the graveyard or on top of the building fighting. you know, whatever warrior

12:34 is in your book, right? So you're in the scene and therefore the reader will be in the scene. But let's say you're like, nah, I don't know. I don't really like how his leg moved there. And now you're analyzing, you're fixing the leg movement or whatever it is. Now you have just completely pulled yourself out of the imaginative dream.

12:56 You've pulled yourself out of your embodiment of the character and and the smells and the sounds and everything of the scene. Now it's going to take time to get back into the scene. And that's just even for a tiny fix, right? So the other thing is why it's very anti-productivity and anti-imagination at the same time is that as you're writing your story, if you're kind of working through the guide and hitting these plot points, you probably won't have to rewrite your whole book from scratch. But there are going to be scenes that just didn't work that you're going to have to rewrite or scenes that you're like, oh gosh, I don't even know what the purpose of this scene is. You're going to have to cut. Well,

13:39 imagine if you'd spent a month refining that scene and then you get to the end and you realize like, oh, I cut that character. Oh my goodness. So now all that time you spent doing line editing, editing out of order, basically, because you don't even do line editing in a second draft. So you're editing out of order, doing line editing on something that needs to be thrown out. So that's ridiculous.

14:06 It's like if you were building a house and you decide to paint the pillars before you've even built up your walls. That doesn't make sense. So we do things in order and line editing is an end thing. It's the finishing touches, right? It's the you know, putting the handles on your cupboards in the kitchen. Like, it's not the first thing you do. It doesn't even make sense to do it then.

14:36 Yeah, because if something's going to wind up being completely cut, then all that time spent polishing it is a time that you could have been doing something else. Which, speaking of which, where should busy people find time in their schedules to write?

14:50 Well, you know, I mean, this is actually one of the biggest issues. This is why the subtitle of the book is called The Busy Writer's Guide to Finishing Your Book Fast. Because when you're busy and you have kids or you have a career or you, you know, you have a lot of obligations and you're just trying to figure out, like, I have this dream, but where can I fit it in? Well, my thinking is... A lot of the problem is that people don't have enough downtime or enough like where they're not staring at their phone or where they are just thinking as they're going for a walk or where they're washing the dishes and dreamily imagining their scene. So that's the first step, really, that in all the other times of our life, we have

15:36 to have a little bit of mental control. What are we doing in that moment? Where are we allowing our brains to go? And if you have a dream to write a book, maybe that's your perfect moment as you're driving to work to start thinking about your scene and the characters in it. And they're contrasting goals and maybe what the obstacle of the scene is. Maybe you're imagining objects within the scene as you're driving to work. You're allowing your brain to sort of, you're looking, right? You're not closing your eyes, but you're controlling where your mental thoughts are going. And they can go toward the dreamy, joyful place of your story. Or they can go to like, oh, I hope I get to work on time. Or why

16:21 is that person blocking me off in traffic? Or, oh, no, I just got that terrible email from my boss. I bet I'm going to get fired. Like all that stuff. Let it go and control your mental space. So that's the first real big step. Because I think what people do is they get in the middle of their crazy life.

16:39 They don't take moments to breathe deeply and clear the mind ever. And then they sit down at their desk and they're like, I don't even know what my story is. I haven't looked at it for two weeks. I don't even know what I'm doing. And of course, of course, that's not going to work at all. So they look back at what they've written and now they're in editing mode and then their time is done. And then now they it was so unrewarding. Now it's going to be two more weeks. Same thing they're going to do all over again. So that is what you should not do.

17:08 But that's what I see a lot of people doing. Instead, I suggest 15 magic minutes a day. I do suggest scheduling that time, having a time that is sort of your sacred imagination time. And there will be days where you really don't want to write. But you cannot say, nobody can say they don't have 15 minutes. That's just an excuse. So then you don't really want this thing.

17:30 But you might be like, oh, but I have to write a, you know, a scene every, no. No. You can just open your journal and write about your book, write about a character, write about what a character thinks about a pickle, write about anything. What does your character think about what you're doing with your life? Connect it to your book somehow. Draw a picture. Draw a picture of your next scene, of a character, whatever, of anything you can do to keep your imagination in the game.

18:02 And sometimes you'll be like, well, you know, I have a little more than 15 minutes. I think I'll sit down and do a little of a scene because that was exciting. So the 15 magic minutes, it's not always writing a scene, but sometimes it leads to writing a scene. Or sometimes it's just preparing you for writing your scene the next day. So it's not always 100 days of writing in a row. That feels like a lot of pressure.

18:26 But I do suggest setting up 15 minutes for your imaginations. And if on that day, you can't even imagine picking up a pen or a journal, lay in your bed, close your eyes, and just dream about your story for 15 minutes. It's like an imagination meditation.

18:45 Sounds good to me. Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break, and I'll be back with more from Kim Purcell. Well, I am back talking with Kim Purcell, who is the author of Write a Novel in 100 Days. So, Kim, this is a podcast called Before Breakfast. So a lot of people listening to this do have morning routines, and I understand that you do as well. Can you tell us what you do in the mornings?

19:16 Well, one of the biggest things I do is I go for a walk or a run, except right now my knee is hurt, so I can't run. But for a long time, I would always be running. And the basic thing that I would make sure I would do is no listening to anything. And occasionally music, if it is something attached to my book, like if it is, if I've already linked it emotionally to my book, if that's what I always do right before writing, then sometimes that can help. But the purpose of that time is to let my brain imagine, to dream a little bit.

20:00 And also you get some exercise. And by the time I'm done The scene is deeply, fully imagined in my body, in every part of me. I have become the character. I know everything about their emotions and what they're going to experience. And now I'm just on fire to write. And really, then you just need 15 minutes because you really are on fire. 15 minutes can be incredibly productive.

20:27 You can do a thousand words. Now, I have noticed, because I've helped a lot of people do this, in the beginning, it'll be more like 350. But then they belt, and they're like, whoa, 600 words. Whoa, 800 words. You know, I mean, if they're slow at typing, maybe not. But then you can always write by hand, too, you know.

20:47 Or you can voice it. Some people do that. So the point is that I do this every morning. And it used to be I would do... my drop off for my kids, and then I would go run or walk. And now both my kids are in college. So it's interesting how I did find that disruptive in a way for my pattern. So you're going to go through different life changes and you're going to have to reevaluate. So I found that actually pushed my writing back later because now I can just get up and, you know, drink some coffee and then the phone, I can pick up the phone. So I'm still good, but I notice I'm pushing it back a little. And I could, if I were to evaluate my own morning routine, it would be like, do not pick up that phone because that's going to

21:39 delay your walk. It's going to delay your writing. You know, I'm like, oh, I just have to respond to this one email. Oh, and now you've pulled your brain out of imagination into this work mode. And now I got to put it back. So, you know, that's always a challenge for me too.

21:56 Absolutely.

21:57 Absolutely.

21:58 So Kim, I always ask my guests, what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?

22:06 Well, you know, I'm very big into this. I am always looking for ways to embrace the moment and the joy in whatever I'm experiencing because I do think that makes us more creative animals because we're in the moment and we're fully there. And that just affects our storytelling in such a positive way. But what I did, and I'm telling you, it was kind of hard this week for me to do all that because my book just came out, book launch. I've had several interviews. And on top of that, I'm teaching every day for about five hours a day. And then, of course, dealing with all the book tour, and I'm about to leave tomorrow. So just to say, all those things coming up and me...

22:56 not really taking the time to say, you had a big book come out by a huge publisher. And that's a really hard thing to do nowadays. And just to really acknowledge to myself, like, hey, little Kim, you're pretty great. And I just want to point out, like, and I don't mean that really that way, but I'm, and I just address that to my little kid because, you know, the dream of 10 year old me. So what I did was, I went to the ABBA tribute concert at the Hollywood Bowl here in Los Angeles. And you wouldn't think it would be that many people. Like, it's a tribute band. But the place was packed. People love ABBA. No, and my friend was like, let's go celebrate. And I was like, I'm too busy. But I was like, no,

23:49 everyone's telling me when a good thing happens, you have to sit, you have to stop, you have to say, you know. This is great. You know, you have to be happy with yourself in that moment. So I really went to this, um, thinking, okay, I'm going to clear, I'm going to just like release the stress. And I tell you, it was already good. I mean, I had a book come out, like how amazing is that? Right. And, um, and, and this is a book that I hope will help a lot of people. And, um, you know, 10 year old me was really into ABBA and 10 year old me was also the person who said, I'm going to be a novelist one day. And so it was like this beautiful link where, um, I was able to celebrate this band that meant a lot to me at that age,

24:42 but also celebrate the dream that kind of became real at that age. Cause I did write my first short book at that age. And based, you know, because I had this amazing teacher. And so going there and just dancing and just letting it loose and like really being in the moment, I have to say it took it from good to great.

25:03 And to awesome, exactly. Well, Kim, thank you so much for this. Where can people find you?

25:10 Well, they can go to my website, KimBursell.com, and it has everything there. But I also have a YouTube channel where.

25:18 I.

25:19 Share a lot of tips and help people, longer form, shorter form video, people of all ages. And that is author Kim Purcell. And I'm also author Kim Purcell on all the other platforms. And I focus on teaching writing and answering people's questions and all that kind of thing. Wonderful.

25:40 Please go check her out there. So Kim, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com. In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening. And here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.

26:08 If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at.

26:13 Laura at lauravandercam.com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media. For more podcasts from iHeart Media, please visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.