Best of BAM: Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? with Matthew Flannagan, and Q&A

From the Christian Research Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina, you're listening to the best of the Bible Answer Man broadcast with Hank Hanegraaff. We're on the air because life and truth matter. The mission of the Christian Research Institute is to equip believers to answer life's essential questions soundly and persuasively, and to give the reason for the hope that you have with gentleness and respect. For more information, go online to equip.org. The following program was pre-recorded. And now, here's Bible Answer Man host, Hank Hanegraaff.

We'll be going to our questions in just a little bit, but I want to spend just a few moments talking to a very important author of an article within the Christian Research Journal titled, Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? Dr. Matthew Flanagan. And the reason I've asked Dr. Matthew Flanagan to join me on the broadcast today is this is a canard that is brought up over and over again.

If God instructs his people to commit genocide, then God cannot be worthy of worship. Either that or the Bible is not the infallible repository of redemptive revelation. And yet, this is precisely what we read in the Bible. In the cities of these people, the people that your Lord has So not only is Joshua instructed to kill all the Canaanites, but the instruction comes directly from God. And if that's true, why in the world could we as Christians hold.

That the Bible is something sacred, that we ought to obey the rules of the Bible, because the God of the Bible obviously doesn't seem worthy of worship. Well, Dr. Matthew Flanagan joins me. It's good to have you on the broadcast.

It's great to be here, Hank. Thank you.

This is a canard that comes up over and over again, that the God of Abram, Isaac, and Jacob is a God who instructs his people to commit genocide and And your response in the article is that we need to know the difference between reading the Bible literally and literarily.

Yeah, correct. I mean, at least as we use the words in modern English, we kind of have the idea, if I said to you, you know, it's raining cats and dogs outside, if I were to interpret that literally, I would mean that there were cats and dogs falling from the sky and hitting the ground. Now, obviously, that would be a silly way of interpreting that phrase. We understand that in English. We have idioms. We have figures of speech. We have metaphors. We also have context where we speak loosely. We have context where we exaggerate or use hyperbole. So, for example, I might say to someone, I might say to my kids, look, I've told you a thousand times, clean the lounge up. No, I haven't actually told them a thousand times. I mean, I've told

them a lot. So in context, literature and language can take on different sort of meanings or nuances depending on the context and where you're uttering that language. And so the point with the Bible is we shouldn't approach it assuming that that every single phrase in it is meant to be taken literally in the way I just elaborated it.

You have to say, okay, what kind of literature is this? What is the author of this text doing with that language in this context? And we don't in normal communication do that. We don't in normal communication assume that everything somebody says to us is 100% literal. I mean, I just gave some examples before. You know, we don't do that when we read a text. We don't normally assume that there's absolutely everything in here is 100%. precisely literal, there's no loose language, there's no exaggeration, there's no hyperbole, there's no figures of speech. In fact, people who write that way are dead boring. So the point is that the Bible is a piece of literature and you have to read what a passage says and what it's articulating

and what have you in that kind of context in which it comes and understand that it's a piece of literature and you have to take into account the kind of context and the type of literature you're dealing with and deal with it that way.

So genre is very important, but you're also pointing out in your piece in the Christian Research Journal that some of these things ought to be obvious. I mean, a lot of people call in and they say, well, how am I supposed to know what to take literally and what not to take literally? But you're saying, particularly with this issue of genocide of nations, you're saying the contrast between utter destruction and leaving ample survivors is fairly obvious.

So the context itself lets you know that There is hyperbole at work here.

Right, yeah.

I mean, probably the best place to look at this is in the book of Joshua. One of the problems is we read the book of Joshua today as a series of verses broken up by chapters. But, of course, the original book wasn't written that way. And, of course, it also comes as part of what theologians call the canon.

It comes as part of a series of books which spell out Israel's history right from the exodus up to the exile and restoration. So it's a segment. It's one book and a segment of other books. and in itself is a whole book. Now, if you read right through that book, even a surface reading, but it's just a careful reading, you'll note that in the first few chapters, chapter 6 to 11, it emphasizes repeatedly various places which Joshua went in, and it says, he put to death all the inhabitants of the sword. He slew every single one of them. He left no survivors. He conquered the whole land. you know, as God had commanded him, you know, it says God, and this little language, and it says, and it repeats over and over again, there were none

left to breathe, all of them were killed, and so on and so on. And then a chapter later, and then it says he did this, he conquered the entire land, and he gave the land to the Israelites. And then the rest of the book spells out Joshua giving the land to those people, and he starts off by saying, there's still plenty of land to conquer, and he gives it to this tribe, and that tribe find that their land is full of Canaanites, and they they struggle to drive it out. And this tribe here finds that the area they've been given is full of Canaanites, and they struggle to drive it out. And this is then the constant repetition of the second half of the book. And then when you get into Judges, which is in the

first chapter, you see the same thing again. The land is full of Canaanites, and they're trying to drive them out, and they can't. So if you were just to look at the central themes, you find the central themes of the book, the first half and the second half, if you take them both literally, simply don't compete with one another, By the time you get to chapter 11, if you've read that literally, Joshua's conquered the entire land and there's nobody left. And then he gives that land to the Israelites.

But then the second half says that land that he's given to the Israelites is full of people. But even if you read the battles carefully themselves, the Battle of Ai is a good example. The Battle of Ai talks about how every single man from Bethel and Ai were sent in pursuit when Joshua claimed his retreat. And then it says that Joshua's turned around and they got caught between the soldiers and none escaped. And then immediately after that, it says, and those who escaped, they went out, caught them all, and none survived. And then immediately after that, it says, and then they went into the city of Ai and killed all the men that were in there.

You know, in the middle of Joshua 10, you have this kind of language of wiping everyone out. And then it has one part where it says, they went and killed them all, and then the survivors escaped to the city. You know, and at the start of the book of Judges, you see the same thing. There's the... city of Jerusalem or the Jezebelites, and it talked twice in that chapter, that city is attacked. The first time it says it's attacked, everyone is killed. And then a few verses later, it's talking about how many people are in there and they have to take it over again. So if you just read the text, you know, without sort of any sort of knowledge of ancient Near Eastern background or literary tropes or whatever from that particular culture, immediate questions arise as

to what is going on here. Now, this author has put stark contrasts into this text into the same book, right next to one another in the canon. And that should lead us to ask the question, well, what's really going on here? And to sort of approach it and just sort of literally, it's almost to sort of say, well, we're going to side with this passage, these ones here that are literal, and we're going to ignore the rest.

Of the text.

Well, you know, if you're going to be selective, why select that way? It's almost like the person is choosing to read those passages as the sort of dominant ones, the important ones, and discounting all the qualifications in which those statements come.

And it is therefore critically important that Christians in particular not only learn how to take the kinds of invective leveled against the Bible and use it as an opportunity to share the truth and love and grace that the God of the Bible really extends to people, but it's a matter of learning as believers to read the Bible for all its worth, to mine the Bible for all its wealth. I mean, God unequivocally commanded Israel to treat the aliens living among them with respect and equality, and foreigners living among the Israelites were allowed to celebrate Passover.

They benefited from an agrarian system of welfare, and they enjoyed full legal protection. And so we know in context that this is not the obliteration of the wicked as much as the obliteration of wickedness that's going on.

Sure. And I mean, even the passage you read at the start of the show, Hank, I mean, it said there at the very start, in the cities, in the land I am giving you. Now, the previous passage has just spelled out, don't do this in the cities outside of you. You know, so even when people like Christopher Hitchens or whatever say, oh, the Bible teaches us to commit genocide, even if you were to take those passages literally, it's not a command. to all people everywhere in every military situation, go out and kill everyone. You know, even taken literally to a very qualified statement that's saying, in this particular battle, I want you to do this. Now, the irony coming from Christopher Hitchens here is that Christopher

Hitchens has, you know, written articles defending, you know, Churchill's aerial bombing of German cities in World War II. I mean, I found an article the other day where he was criticizing something Pat Buchanan wrote, and he was talking about how, you know, we know, given how evil the Nazis were, that it was, we needed to do this aerial bombing, which killed lots of civilians, you know. Now, Does that mean that Christopher Hitchens supports genociding every single person in the world? That he hates all German people and foreigners?

No.

What he's arguing there is he's saying in a particular military context, I think this was necessary. Now, we can agree or disagree with him on that, but it would be really uncharitable to sort of take that statement and then say that it wasn't qualified in the context that it was. Even if you take the passage literally... You're quite right. It would at most say, in this particular military context, and then you'd have all these other passages around it which say, in general, when you're dealing with foreigners, treat them this way. In general, when you're dealing with other people, treat them this way. So again, it's about reading these things in their context and not letting people exaggerate or pull passages out of their context and sort

of run off with urban legends about what they say.

Dr. Matthew Flanagan, thank you so much for your contribution to the broadcast today and to the Christian Research Journal. God bless you. We'll be right back.

To find out more about the materials mentioned on the show, call a CRI resource consultant toll-free at 888-7000-CRI. That's 888-7000-CRI. Our website is also an excellent reference destination to help you. Just go to equip.org and find articles by Hank, books, CDs, and DVDs, Again, that's equip.org. Or write CRI PO Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, ZIP 28271. The Bible Answer Man will continue in just a moment. Dr. Evan Alexander's wildly popular near-death experience book, Proof of Heaven, assures us that no matter what we do in this life, only unconditional love and joy await us in the world to come. But our Lord warned that while the gate to hell is wide, the road to it broad, and those who enter through

it are many, the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Your generous support lets Hank Hanegraaff and CRI speak out against the lies that lead to hell. In appreciation for your gift today, we'll rush you Hank's book, Afterlife, what you need to know about heaven, the hereafter, and near-death experiences, filled with answers to your questions about life after death. Call 888-7000-CRI or visit equip.org now. Again, that's equip.org.

Anyone who's been paying attention knows there's a war going on, not just on traditional morality, civility, and decency, but even more fundamentally on historic notions of truth. And the enemy isn't just the onslaught of fake news facilitated by a post-truth culture and turbocharged by growing legions of ideological spin doctors. No, the real enemies of truth range from post-modernist convictions that there is no objective truth, to militant scientism that claims that only science can determine truth and religion is little more than primitive superstitions. But CRI support team members are not waving a white flag of surrender. They're holding the fort by undergirding every one of Christian Research Institute's mind-shaping

and life-changing outreaches 24-7. To learn how you can make a difference and enjoy all the benefits of support team membership, simply visit equip.org. The Complete Bible Answer Book Collector's Edition is the comprehensive collection of the most often asked questions Hank Hanegraaff has received throughout his four decades as host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast. With more than half a million copies already in print, this newly revised and expanded Collector's Edition Help seekers and skeptics alike sort through the truth on topics such as reliability of the Bible, religions and cults, the resurrection and afterlife, and many more issues vital to a better understanding of God in Christ and our relationship to Him. To receive your copy of

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888-7000-CRI or visit us at equip.org.

And now, here's Hank Hanegraaff.

Thank you very much, Randy. And we'll go from Randy to Sandy, listening in Virginia. Hi, Sandy.

Hi.

I have a question that I don't think I'm unusual having. My daughter was killed two years ago. A semi-truck driver took his eyes off the road for a little bit. And I know she believed in the Lord, and I know she believed in Jesus Christ, but I don't know if she prayed the full prayer. And my question is, if that didn't happen, is she barred from helping?

Well, remember, Sandy, that God is not looking for technicalities to keep people out of his presence. He did all that could possibly be done so that we might be reconciled to him for time and for eternity. The only people who will be kept out of his presence are those who do not want to relationship with him. And I think it's important to recognize that it's not the absence of knowledge that damns, it's the despising of knowledge that damns. So I don't think it is incumbent upon someone to have an absolute pristine formula, and you have to be able to parrot that formula in a certain way in order to be saved. I think that you have to respond to the light that you've been given.

And the light that we are given is communicated by Paul in Romans, the light of creation, an outer light, the light of conscience, an inner light. And if we respond to the light of creation from without and conscience from within, then we will also receive the light of Jesus Christ as Paul delineates in Romans chapter 3. So I think that you, based on what you communicated in the prologue to your question, can be certain that your daughter...

is absent from the body, present with the Lord, and awaiting the greatest of all eventualities, that is, the time that Jesus appears a second time and puts all things to right. Then there'll be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the older things will have passed away. Behold, all things have become new. I want to go back to the phone lines, talk to Robin in Texas, listening on the web. Hi, Robin.

How are you doing, Hank? Thanks for taking my call.

Pleasure.

My question is, I guess I have two questions. The first one is, I know, like, Moses is the one that's supposed to have written Genesis, but he, like, he lived so far after it. I was wondering how they know, like, if the Bible mentions anywhere, if there's, like, some kind of history anywhere on, was it revolution, or was it passed down through to tradition, or just how did he know so much of that history to write Genesis?

Yeah, well, it was a cultivated oral tradition. I mean, post-Gutenberg, we're primarily people of the printed page. As the offspring of Johannes Gutenberg and more recently Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, we associate sound education with the capacity for reading and writing rather than memorizing and reciting. But that's not the way it was with the ancients. In a predominantly oral culture, people practiced the principles of memory. and learning was virtually synonymous with memorization. Therefore, although the ancients did have written records, the right emphasis was not on manuscript repositories, but rather mental recall. And so I think we can safely say that Moses spoke about a lot of things he knew

of firsthand. He was an eyewitness to the Exodus, for example, but he also was able to under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Bible was written by men as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit, he was able to communicate a cultivated oral tradition which had been passed down to him as well. It was quite possible that Moses also drew from, as I said, written sources.

And therefore, when you read Genesis, you find that Moses employs the language of this is the account of. and that's why I also underscore the fact that there were manuscript repositories as well as mental recall upon which Moses would have relied.

Okay, that's good, and I guess my second question is, I think I've heard you talk about this before, but I don't remember what the answer was. But do you believe that the ages of those people, the people who live 900 plus years, is that literal, 900 plus years? Or is that like, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if there's any other way to take it, but.

Yeah, I think that certainly prior to the flood, you have the ancients living a long period of time. But also, there are changes in the length that people live, and those changes are notated in the Bible in a pretty direct way, that because of our sin, because of our separation from God, because of the accumulated imperfections that grow up over time genetically, the Bible states that the life of man will be three score and ten years, or if by reason of strength, four score years, which is 70 or 80 years. But again, the Bible just gives that as an average. And there are a lot of explanations that have been given as to why that occurs, including some of the explanations I just gave in the prologue to the answer, but there are many other explanations

that are given for it as well.

All right. Well, thank you very much, then.

You got it. Thank you so much for your call. Back to the phone lines. We'll talk next to George listening in Tampa, Florida on the World Wide Web. Hi, George.

Hi, sir.

How are you doing today?

Good.

How are you?

I'm doing good. My question stems from the passage where Jesus is talking to the woman at the well, and he talks about worshiping in spirit and in truth. And as I was reading that the question comes to mind, what is the definition of spirit, and what does it mean to worship in spirit?

Well, remember, we have not received the spirit of the world, but we have received the spirit who is from God, so that we might, as Paul puts it, understand what God has freely given to us. And this is the essence of what it means to be one who walks in in spirit, and in truth. And that can be taken a lot of different ways, because truth is that which corresponds to reality on the one hand, but the Word of God is communicated as truth, and Jesus Christ recognized himself not only as the way, but as the very personification of truth. So to walk in spirit and in truth is to walk in the power and knowledge of of the one who spoke and the universe leapt into existence.

Okay. All right.

Thank you.

You got it. Want to go back to the phone lines? Let's talk to Stephanie listening in Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Stephanie.

Hi, Hank.

How are you?

I'm doing well, thanks. I had a question regarding the doctrine of election. I guess I'm kind of on the fence as far as If I'm interpreting it correctly, just I'm assuming it means that there are a select friar that God has already chosen. So I'm guessing like if anyone ever, you know, quote unquote says, I came to Christ, they were already elected to come to Christ. It wasn't anything that someone has said or done or ministered to us.

Well, that's not really how I hold to the doctrine of election. I hold to Christocentric election, which is to say that Christ is the elect one, and we are elect by being in Christ. So if you think about it this way, Abraham, according to the Bible, only had one seed, and that seed is Jesus Christ. So he is the elect one. He is the one chosen before the foundations of the world. But if you read Galatians chapter 3 and its context, you realize that If you are in Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham and an heir according to the promise, whether you're Jew or whether you're Greek, whether you're male or whether you're female, whether you're slave or whether you're free. So it doesn't matter about your station in life or whether you're a

male or a female, your gender or your nationality. If you are in Christ, then you are true Israel. You are the seed of Abraham and an heir according to the promises of God. So the elect are all those who embrace Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of their life. So I don't hold to the notion of compatibilistic freedom or circumstantial freedom or the attendant notion that you have to be regenerated and only the elect are regenerated before you can exercise faith. I believe that if, in fact, you will, you can respond faithfully to the wooing of the Holy Spirit and receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of your life.

Okay, thank you.

That answered my question.

You got it. Thank you so much for your call, Stephanie. We are unfortunately out of time for this edition of the Bible Answer Man broadcast, except to say that this is a ministry that needs your support. We ask people who can to stand with this ministry prayerfully and financially because they love the ring of truth. If you join the support team, I'll send you a personalized copy of the complete Bible Answer Book Collector's Edition. You can check it out on the web at equip.org, but we need many of you to join the support team, join a team of people making a difference, not just for time, but also for eternity. We thank you for your prayers, for your commitment to Jesus Christ, and for working with

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Thank you for joining us for the Bible Answer Man broadcast. In today's post-truth culture of confusion, the Christian Research Institute exists to equip listeners like you with answers to communicate the gospel of hope to a world in desperate need of life and truth, because life and truth matter. In addition to truth, we want to equip you with life, not simply to know about God, but truly to know Him.

Experiencing union with Christ enables us to live life not merely by our own energy, but with the energy of the Lord Jesus working powerfully through us. For more information, call 888-7000-CRI. That's 888-7000-CRI. You can also write CRI at Post Office Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, 28271. or just visit us online at equip.org. That's equip.org. The Bible Answer Man broadcast is funded by listeners like you. We're on the air because life and truth matter. Dr. Evan Alexander's wildly popular near-death experience book, Proof of Heaven, assures us that no matter what we do in this life, only unconditional love and joy await us in the world to come.

But our Lord warned that while the gate to hell is wide, the road to it broad, and those who enter through it are many, the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Your generous support lets Hank Hanegraaff and CRI speak out against the lies that lead to hell. In appreciation for your gift today, we'll rush you Hank's book, Afterlife, what you need to know about heaven, the hereafter, and near-death experiences, filled with answers to your questions about life after death. Call 888-7000-CRI or visit equip.org now. Again, that's equip.org.

Best of BAM: Was Israel Commanded to Commit Genocide? with Matthew Flannagan, and Q&A

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