Turning the Empire Upside Down, and Q&A

0:07 Welcome to the Bible Answer Man broadcast with Christian Research Institute President Hank Hanegraaff. Our mission at CRI is not only to equip you with Christian doctrine, apologetic accuracy and discernment, but to help you become a faithful apprentice of Jesus Christ because life and truth matter. If you'd like to know more about CRI and the Bible Answer Man broadcast, call 888-7000-CRI. 888-7000-CRI. Or go to our website at equip.org.

0:41 That's equip.org. The following program was pre-recorded. And now, here's Hank Hanegraaff.

0:49 Plinius the Younger. He was a contemporary. He was an employer of Suetonius, a friend of Tacitus, who was perhaps the greatest historian of the Roman Empire. was also a highly skilled rhetorician, and he was well known for letters that were rightly dubbed literary classics. But tragically, he was equally notorious for the interrogation, torture, and murder of Christians.

1:22 His manner was to ask three times whether the person was a follower of Jesus Christ. If the answer was yes, says Plinius himself, I told them to be taken away for execution. But if a person responded by denying the faith, Plinius had them repeat an invocation to the gods, offer rites with wine and incense before the statue of Trajan, and then utter imprecations at the same time against the name of Jesus Christ. Of course, for Plinius, the endgame was the reclamation of multitudes from the worship of Christ to the worship of Caesar. He confidently asserted that through intimidation and threat of death, the tide of Christianity could forever be stemmed. In the end, he was wrong. From catastrophe and carnage, would sprout the greatest civilization the world

2:36 has ever known. A civilization based on the DNA of a biblical worldview. And the reason that people were able to withstand these kinds of circumstances, the threat of torture and death, was because they had seen the resurrected Christ. or they had heard reliable eyewitness testimony regarding the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And they believed it more certainly than they believed they had flesh upon their bones. And therefore they were willing to face vilification and torture and torment, cruel deaths, because they knew that they would live again.

3:30 Like their master, they would rise from the dead at the end of time. And thus animated, they turned an empire upside down. You and I can do the same. We are called to be ambassadors for Jesus Christ. A lot of you hanging on. We'll go right to our phone callers. First up is Robbie listening in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Hi, Robbie.

3:57 Hey, Hank.

3:57 Thanks for taking my call.

3:59 Pleasure.

4:01 Our church is going through a bit of a transitional time. We're a small congregation of 80, and we've been somehow... I don't know if it's blessed or cursed with a large sum of money, and so we're in the process of designing and building a building. And with it, there's... there seems to come or bring with it a lot more problems than problems that it would fix. And so it leads me to the question of, you know, what the marks and practices of the New Testament church are and how they reflect on the contemporary institutional church today with all their practices.

4:45 Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I was talking to Francis Chan, and he had a very large church in Simi Valley. And in the end, he walked away from that church. And part of the reason, as he described it to me, was that the church had to continue to build bigger buildings because so many people were coming. And he started wondering, is that really an authentic expression of how the New Testament church worshipped? Is this what it's going to be, just keep building a bigger building and then another bigger building?

5:19 Or is there a different kind of ecclesiology? And this is a question that a lot of people are asking. But the matter of ecclesiology is a matter that Christians have throughout the centuries debated vigorously. Obviously it's a secondary issue we ultimately don't have to divide over. But if you look at the distinctives that you see in the early Christian church, you need to look no further than Acts chapter 2, where you see that the early Christians devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread, to prayer. So they broke bread in their homes. They ate together with glad and sincere hearts.

6:00 They praised God. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. And if you want to see that being replicated today, you find it not as much in the West, but more particularly in the East. If you go to places like China, you see the persecuted church gathering together in much the same way And the Lord is adding daily to their number those who are being saved. And quite frankly, the church in China is exploding as a result of it. So the big issue there, from my perspective, is that the participants, the parishioners, are all involved. The believers are not just spectators. They're involved actively in the work of ministry. And that is not just in the sense of witness. or even in

6:50 the sense of oneness, but also in the sense of worship. So when they get together, they're all prophesying in the sense not of foretelling the future, but of foretelling, as we see in 1 Corinthians chapter 14, edification, exhortation, you know, to strengthen and equip the believers. So it's a very potent, powerful model that oftentimes is bypassed in the East, where We have the luxury of building huge buildings and having megachurches.

7:24 But again, this is far from a settled issue in the minds of many because it is one of those issues that is debated vigorously. Ecclesiology is a secondary issue, and that's why there's so much division on it.

7:40 Okay, thank you so much.

7:42 You got it. Thank you for your call. Back to the phone lines. We'll talk next to Charles. He's listening in Fresno, California. Hi, Charles.

7:49 Hello. My question is, is there a difference between when a person knows they're going to sin and they go out and do it anyway, as opposed to a person who stumbles? Or do God see that the same way?

8:03 No, I think there is a difference, and I think you're wise to point that out. Remember that when you become a believer, what you do is you realize you're a sinner, you repent of your sin, and you follow Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of your life. Now, that repentance is a change of heart. It's a change of mind. It's a change of the will. So you want to do it God's way as opposed to doing it your own way. So your intent is to follow Christ.

8:31 I mean, that's what it means to become a Christian. You're no longer going your own direction, living by the dictates of your own will, but you've turned and you're following Jesus Christ. You say, I want to do it your way. But on that turn, as you've turned and you're on the road of repentance... You stumble and fall, and therefore you confess your sins. So I think the distinction you make is a very apt and appropriate distinction.

8:55 So would it be safe to say if a person has the desire to continue in his or her sin that they might want to really sit back and look at if they've seriously given their life to Christ?

9:08 Yeah, absolutely.

9:10 Yes.

9:11 Yeah, if you want to continue to willfully sin, then you might legitimately ask whether you have a said faith as opposed to a real faith. So, again, point well taken on your part.

9:23 Okay, thank you.

9:25 You get it.

9:25 Thank you so much.

9:26 God bless you.

9:26 God bless you. Appreciate your call. Back to the phone lines. We'll talk next to Luke listening on Post Falls, Idaho. Hi, Luke.

9:35 Hi. I wanted to know if the Bible teaches that. Faith in Jesus Christ if it comes by personal choice or if it comes by God?

9:50 Well, there are various theological constructs that look at this differently. For example, Calvinists will say that all people are created in such a way that they cannot respond to the gospel, but God regenerates certain people. They become the elect, and those who are regenerated then can respond in faith to the gospel. But if you are not regenerate, then you cannot exercise faith. So regeneration in that view means precedes faith.

10:21 That is not the view that I hold, but it is a open debate amongst Christians. So this is one of those issues that is debated vigorously within Christian circles. And ultimately, I think that's where it ought to be left, something that we debate vigorously, but ultimately do not have to divide over. I'll be right back in just a few moments with more of the Bible Answer Man broadcast.

10:46 Do remember that this is a ministry supported by listeners just like you, Be right back.

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14:54 And now....

15:08 Here's Hank Hanegraaff.

15:09 Let's go right back to the phone lines. We'll talk next to Brian. He's in Huntington. Brian, how are you?

15:15 I'm good, thanks. Thanks for having me on your program, Mr.

15:17 Hanegraaff.

15:18 You got it.

15:19 I was wondering about Acts 1. In it, it says they cast their lots, and it's talking about choosing a new disciple to replace Judas.

15:28 Yeah.

15:28 And I was wondering, in that instance, is God kind of directing an undirected process, or what is that?

15:37 Well, it's interesting. If you look at the Old Testament, there's quite a number of instances in which you see that the law is being used. You don't see it very often in the New Testament, and certainly not presented in the New Testament in favor. But you have to remember that in the early period, there was little of the Bible available. And when God approved of this means for determining his will, It became one of the ways in which the leaders of God's people could be directed by God in some kind of substantive way. After the day of Pentecost, the casting of lots fell into disfavor because there was direct access for God's people through the ministry of the Holy Spirit in their lives. So I would certainly say it was not normative later on in

16:32 the early Christian church and certainly isn't normative today.

16:36 Okay.

16:37 So, like, I heard from a Wesleyan pastor once that John Wesley, on some rare occasions, drew straws because he wanted something to be God's decision. So you would call that unbiblical today?

16:50 I would call it unbiblical today. I think that we can go directly into the throne room of God. We can call him Abba Father. And God then, when we pray, leads us through people and through circumstances and I would say, again, that the idea of using a lot, and by the way, the biblical use of lots, we're really not sure what that means. Was it dice? Was it one straw larger than another? We don't know exactly what it was, but even where it's used descriptively in the book of Acts, it's not used prescriptively, which is to say, yes, Matthias was drawn by lot, but we don't know if that worked out very well. What we do know is that The one who replaced Judas for all intents and purposes was the apostle Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles. So, again,

17:43 I would say that the use of the New Testament is descriptive, not prescriptive.

17:49 Okay. And just one more thing. I was wondering, when Peter uses these scriptures to kind of substantiate his argument, what is that to you or me or something?

18:02 When Peter uses what?

18:04 Those scriptures let another take his office. You're saying that would be Paul, possibly?

18:09 Yes, I'm saying that it's possible, but what I'm saying that when you read things in the book of Acts, what you're reading is not necessarily prescriptive, it's descriptive. Which is to say, you find all kinds of things happening in the Old Testament which we know are descriptive. For example, when a patriarch takes many wives, that's descriptive, but it's not prescriptive. Which is to say, the Bible, in terms of what it is prescribing, says that you must not multiply wives. In fact, the Bible is very clear that a man leaves his father and his mother, and he is united with his wife, and the two become one flesh.

18:50 So you have descriptions, but the fact that something is described doesn't mean that it is prescribed.

18:56 Okay, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Can I ask one more quick question?

19:00 Yeah.

19:00 Okay, in 1 Corinthians 15... it says that Jesus appeared to the twelve, and I was just wondering, why did he call them the twelve when there was only eleven?

19:11 Yeah, that's a way of talking about the disciples, but you know, we talk that way in biblical senses over and over again throughout the text about the twelve tribes of Israel. If you actually look at the lists themselves, when the twelve tribes of Israel are mentioned, you find lists that don't correspond to the number twelve. But the number twelve is the in fact, emblematic of the Old Testament and also the New Testament. In the Old Testament, you have one set. In the New Testament, you have another.

19:44 In the New Testament, you have the 12 apostles of the Lamb. And in the Old Testament, you have the 12 tribes of Israel. I want to go right back to the phone lines, and I want to talk to Amber next. She's listening in Leslie, Missouri.

19:56 Hi, Amber.

19:58 Hi, Hank. Thank you for taking me. I really enjoy your show.

20:01 You got it. My pleasure.

20:03 Okay. My question is, I have an uncle who is a homosexual. He's one of the nicest people you could ever meet. He believes in God, you know, would do anything for anybody. But I know that in the Bible it says that, you know, homosexuals are wrong. So, I mean, does that mean he's going to be going to hell?

20:25 Well, it depends. I mean, anyone that is involved in willful violation of God's principles and precepts is saying, I want to do it my own way. That, of course, does not just apply... to gender-bending activities. It applies to a whole host of sins. If you are a habitual liar, that is not to say that one cannot be a believer and lie, but when you do it, you feel remorse because you have violated God's precepts and his principles and you ask him for forgiveness and then you know he's righteous and just and he will forgive you your sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness. But the bottom line principle here is that if you're a believer, and God gives you the handbook for how to live your life,

21:12 you want to live in accordance with that, not in opposition with that. So certainly someone can have same-sex proclivities, but that might be something that they are inclined to do. But if God says that's not the way to live your life, that's not the way it made you, and I didn't make a false dichotomy between your physiology and your psychology, then you want to live in concert with God's principles, not by the dictates of your own will.

21:41 I mean, that's what it means to repent. So it doesn't mean automatically that he's going to hell, but what it does mean is that if he's genuinely a believer, he's going to want to not do it his own way, but do it God's way.

21:54 Right.

21:54 So you're saying if he, you know, because he was brought up in a very devout Catholic, you know, family. So you're saying if he believes in Jesus and believes in God and asks God for his forgiveness, he'll go to heaven?

22:14 Well, yeah. I mean, if he realizes that he's a sinner, whatever that sinful proclivity might be, if he repents of his sin, not just same-sex sexuality, but sin in general, if he repents of his sin and says, I don't want to do it my own way, I want to turn and follow you, and if he receives Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, then Christ is his and he is Christ. God didn't come to redeem us as perfect people.

22:47 He came to redeem sin-sick people. And the thing that we want to do is trust in him and say, I want to live my life in accordance with your principles. So you're trusting him in all things. You're trusting him for eternal life, but you're also trusting him for the day-to-day provisions and prescriptions of life. So if he's wanting to do it God's way, but he stumbles in sin, that doesn't mean that God is casting him off. No, God has come for those who are sin sick.

23:25 Okay.

23:26 All right. Thank you so much.

23:27 You got it. I appreciate your call. I want to go back to the phone lines and talk to Jim in Missouri. Hi, Jim.

23:34 Hello.

23:34 This is Jim's wife, and he's right here. We both have questions for you. This is in regards to a cult that I'm not sure that you're familiar with. It's called the Trumpet Call of God. And we have a relative that is now involved in this. And we're kind of at the point of desperation right now. We don't really know what to do or how to handle the situation.

24:02 We have a 10-year-old grandson that's involved too.

24:06 Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately what you want to do is be equipped to use the deviations that you run into as opportunities for Communicate the Truth. When someone gets involved in something, it is a matter of the will. And the same will that gets them involved in something has to be the same will that gets them out of something. But you need to be prepared or equipped to use the deviations as opportunities to communicate truth.

24:35 My question, I think, is the name of this cult is Trumpet Call of God, Timothy? And he's a self-proclaimed prophet of the Trumpet Call of God and makes the claim that he is and is not adding to the Bible. He makes many references that no one may change the scripture. Then he spins it and quotes the prophets from the Torah and so forth, laying their ancient claim to prophecy and therefore speaking directly to Jesus, God. And therefore the human, Timothy, is not laying new claims or making changes. It is God who is speaking through him. Here is the, and so forth.

25:20 Thank you.

25:21 Yeah, I get that. I mean, what he does is he claims to have true and actual conversations with God. And he says that many revelations are given to him in his dreams. But the problem here is you have to test his revelations and you have to test his conversations to see if they correspond with what God has already said. And therein lies the problem, because what he's saying is not grounded in sound exegesis of Scripture, but rather in private, subjective revelations. And that is a huge problem.

25:51 huge red flag and problem. Again, your task to be equipped to take this deviation and use it as an opportunity to communicate truth. Our authority is the Word of God. We're out of time for this edition of the Bible Answer Man broadcast. As always, thanks for joining in. We'll see you right back here tomorrow with more of the broadcast.

26:13 Thank you for joining us today. Our mission at the Christian Research Institute is to defend the faith answer Bible questions, and encourage Christians to watch their life and doctrine closely. To find resources to help equip you, go to equip.org. That's equip.org. Or call us at 888-7000-CRI. You can also write CRI at Post Office Box 8500, Charlotte, North Carolina, 28271.

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