Pride Month Special: Conversion Therapy Is Abuse

0:06 Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.

0:08 I'm Melissa Malbranch.

0:09 Today we're going to talk about Pride Month and also my mandatory tanning bedtime, growing up people being born without toenails. We're going to do a Pride Month special where we talk about conversion therapy. We're going to talk about how to curate safe spaces for as a queer person and with queer people in your life. We answer all your burning questions from the DM So stick around. I feel like you're kidding. Iowa.

0:33 No, it's Haitian Flag Day.

0:35 It's Haitian Flag Day today today, and so that's like Independence Day in Haiti.

0:43 No, it's the day, so Independence days in January. But this is a part of the revolution. So the Haitian revolutionaries took down the French flag and they ripped it up, and there was a woman, her name was capin Florn. She made a new flag. So she ripped up the you know, so the French flag is a tricolored red, white and blue flag, and that was what was flying in what was Haiti what became Haiti, and so she ripped it apart and made a new one.

1:14 Cool.

1:14 So that's what today is. I have to show you pictures of Elena and Dahlia.

1:20 Melissa has the cutest Okay, so y'all know I'm not like a kid person. You keep saying her nieces are really cute and really funny, and they said the messiest stuff.

1:32 I told you what Elena. So Elena said to me one day, this is Minnie s Lena. It was her birthday and I was talking to her on FaceTime and we were talking about her party, and now, did you have a good time? Yes? I did, And then I said did you have a cake at your party? And she looked at me. The only way that I could describe the look that she gave me was piteous, Like she just looked at me and she was just like that, have you ever been to a birthday party? And I was like, oh, okay.

2:00 She ate you up?

2:01 Up she was.

2:02 She was like, of course there was kick it was a birthday. Yeah you've ever done? Was this your first time?

2:09 Also like almost feeling sorry for me. Clearly I have no friends and I've never been to her birthday.

2:14 My auntie Melissa's aunt kid row, she's on the breadline. She doesn't have cake at her birthday like it.

2:20 Is, actually have a birthday.

2:21 It's so sad. Yeah, please, you know, thoughts and prayers, please reach out to Missa because she doesn't have.

2:28 Anyone birthday nobody.

2:31 Of course I had cake on my birthday.

2:33 I'm not, but the look was like, anyway, just suck. How are you? I'm good?

2:42 You know, I feel like I fell off a skyscraper.

2:45 Okay, concerning because why.

2:51 Things are just getting crazy and wild in court?

2:54 Are they?

2:54 Yeah?

2:55 Are you? Are you acting accordingly?

2:56 No?

2:57 And that's what I love.

3:02 So it's like I say that it's really tough and wild right now, but it's very invigorating. It's kind of like driving one hundred miles per hour down the highway, like it's exciting but dangerous, but the last thing you want to do is take your hands off the wheel, like you really don't ever want to let go. So that's kind of what work is like right now. Okay, let's get into a sidebark because I can sort of go and ye, So what I think is ICE and DHS expanded rapidly. They got a bucket of funding from the Big Beautiful Bill. Thank you so much Lisa Berkowski for that. And I think that when any organization expands rapidly, there are growing pains, right, So they had to hire a bunch of attorneys. We saw this with ice officers

3:46 who were literally shooting themselves in the butt because they didn't know how.

3:49 To operate a fire correct. Yeah.

3:50 Yeah, So the same thing is kind of happening in the litigation analog. So a lot of these attorneys that's the first time in court, they've never been in front of a judge before.

4:00 It feels so incredibly irresponsible, right, especially because and I obviously I don't want this admissis to be successful in any way, but if their goal is to be successful, they're not going about it the right way at all, do you know what I mean?

4:18 And I think what we're learning quickly is that, like there are very real consequences for everyone who's working for DHS, including ice officers, including the attorneys, and that we know that Trump will run you over with a bus, yeah or whatever. He's not coming to pardon you. And so people are like, oh, I'm following the orders of my boss.

4:37 But you no matter what job you're in, if you're a lawyer, if you're not a lawyer, you have to have that gut check of like am I actually breaking a law? Did I break the law? And is someone going to come bail me out if I actually get in trouble.

4:51 Because and they're not are are they breaking.

4:54 The law in certain situations? I mean, I can't speak about like DHS attorneys, but definitely officers. Yeah, we're getting prosecutions coming out of Minnesota right now. There are a couple charges that have dropped against an ice officer that shot a man from Venezuela back in January. This is not breaking news, this is right going on for a while.

5:13 But yeah, there have been a couple of situations where particular ice officers who were misbehaving, who not misbehaving, breaking the law, committing crimes, are now being prosecuted in state court. And you can't get pardoned for a state crime by the president.

5:28 Only federal crime.

5:29 Only federal crimes. So those lawyers, I bet those lawyers are arguing, oh, it is a federal crime, let's move this to federal court rather than state court, because then Trump can pardon them.

5:42 So many times nobody, I mean, and again, you know we say, we've said this a lot. I just don't understand why the people who support him cannot understand that he doesn't have your back, right and he And I'm not saying that's because just because I don't like him, which I own, but I mean, he's never had anyone's back.

6:03 The minute you do anything, or the minute his back is up against the wall, he's going to throw you under the bus with joy.

6:11 Maybe they know that, maybe they don't. And if they do know that, I think everyone in the GOP is just lining their pockets with taxpayer dollars. Right, we have reports that Trump has been has enriched his wealth by the billions taking office. Right, we have situations like Christy Nome who awarded a contract to a friend's firm and the hundreds of millions of dollars. Like, we have these situations where literally flagrantly in broad daylight, Yeah, politicians are taking tax pay dollars through government contracts, the ballroom, the painting of the reflection pool, like all of these things.

6:51 You know, all roads lead to Rome. So I think about that a lot, and then I think about people like Nancy Pelosi who got totally raked over the coals for her husband's like stock trading history. I mean, I'm not advocating that congress people should be trading stocks. I don't think they should.

7:06 Sure, they shouldn't. It's all wrong. And the problem is that the GOP had been making this point of like draining the swamp. You know, we're going to set things right. There's been a lot of like crookedness, et cetera. Meanwhile, they are as crooked as it gets right.

7:23 And I think, you know, if you think about it doesn't have to be like monetary benefits that people are getting. It could be like trade. It could be the men that Lindsey Graham is catching by saying, Hey, I'm a I'm a congress person. Let's hook up on grinder. When you hit someone up on grinder, you know what I mean? Like, what does it say? Like that's a benefit and it's non non fiduciary, right.

7:47 Like there's a benefit involved, a non monetary benefit.

7:50 And speaking of which, I would like to dedicate this episode to Lindsay Graham because it is Pride month. This is the first this is our Pride episode.

7:57 So, I mean, and it is good to be out proud, is it not good?

8:01 It is good to be out and proud with the bubble wand at Disney World, So congratulations out here looking death, Lindsey Graham. We'll see you in the airport bathroom. So Happy Pride month.

8:11 Happy Pride.

8:12 It's June.

8:13 It's June.

8:13 It's June.

8:14 What will you do well?

8:17 I've been doing a Diva series that everyone loves. Okay, Diva, it's Pride month. Diva, it's Pride month. You've got to kiss the same gender, girly mom, turn off the channel. Let's get into your algorithm as showing.

8:30 Let's talk about.

8:31 All the weird things showing up on our feet this week. Yeah, and since it's Pride month, there is a lot that's sort of you know, aside from my Diva videos, do.

8:39 You guys see the I don't know who it was talking about. Congress really should be allowed to, Like, if we want get Congress people in here, they work one hundred and forty days a year, they make just under two hundred thousand, we should really let them trade stocks.

8:54 Look at least let them like engage in some stock trading so that they can continue to, you know, take care of their family.

9:02 You know. And I wonder the people who are in their areas right, who are like really yeah, right right? So could you Imagine like there's a congressman or a senator from like West Virginia, which is one of the poorest states in the nation, and you're going to tell his constituents that that person should be allowed to trade because they don't make enough money after working one hundred and fifty days a year and only making two hundred thousand dollars. When these people can't afford to keep bread in their pantry and you know, shoes on their kids feet, do you know what I'm saying. It's so it's so insulting.

9:39 And but I wonder, though, why there are so many people who are willing to vote for people when it's so obviously not in their best interests, and they do it all. It happens all the time.

9:53 So I heard something really interesting. AOC was talking about the new Voting Right Tact and the Supreme Court decision and what just happened in Memphis, Tennessee. For those who don't know, they basically split up the district in Memphis, and it's literally like a circle is the Black community in Memphis, and they literally made it into little slivers going out of the circle into like eight slices of pizza.

10:20 Imagine that and like in the middle is the black community, and so everywhere from the center of the pizza out to the crust is white ass bitches, and it's all white communities. So that way, this population of black people, each one of their votes gets diluted by that larger piece of pizza. So when I think about that, and I hear people talk about, oh, well, how can people are voting against their interest Sometimes that's not true. Sometimes people are voting in their interests, but the value and the power of their individual vote has been basically obliterated by gerrymandering. Like that helped me reframe it a little bit because I always thought that too, where I was like, God, why does everyone in Maine? How come everyone is like

11:09 voting for Susan Collins. And it's like, no, they just chopped the districts up into this little like hodgepodge.

11:15 So that the votes don't have the same the power that they had when they weren't sort of diluting the districts.

11:24 And then there are some districts where one vote has the power of like four thousand votes, Like one person's vote in this one weird neighborhood in a swing state Super delegates, super delegates. Yeah, it's not just a menu item anymore.

11:37 No it is.

11:39 It's not just a menus. Get the foot long super delegate at your local subway, so.

11:45 Like going to the movies and getting the bigger popocause the better value.

11:49 They can't call it bread what at some way they can't call it bread. It's it's like a bread product, like they can't advertise it as bread.

11:58 You know, who can I tell you something bread? I am chagrined by this? Chagrined. Do you know who loves subway?

12:07 Andre?

12:07 Andre love subway? I Andre loves subway. When I like complain about the stuff that he eats, He's just like, oh, it's no, I mean it's it's it's it's fresh bread and it's vegetables. It's good for me. And I'm just like, and not just a sandwich, but not just that. It actually does not taste that good. So I don't understand.

12:27 And he and he only eats it when I go away. So I'm going scrap booking soon, and he can't wait. He can't wear away. He's gonna shove He's gonna shove a full long subway sandwich into his Piole. He cannot wait for me to go. He should.

12:42 He should FaceTime Brad because when I go away and I'm going away, Brad likes to get Panda Express. I can't stand can express Panda It's like the mall from the nineties.

12:54 Yeah. No, it's it's like the what is it the Italian garden? What is it?

13:00 Oh uh seborrow No olive garden.

13:04 It's like the olive gardens, Italian of olive gardens. You know it's and it also enjoys Penda express. Like this is when I tell you chagrins.

13:13 It's an illness. It's really and I think about I ate a lot of subway when I was a kid. I mean I was growing up on Long Island. I like to qualify my Long Island status by saying I saw the inside of a tanning bed when I was fifteen.

13:27 Did you go with tanning?

13:29 I didn't go tanning. It was mandatory, like it was it came to you. Yeah, it was like it was like, you know, like a housing requirement. Okay, if you live on Long Island you have to. In the nineties, how my sister took me tanning when I was fifteen. She was like, get in the car. She got her license. She was like, get in, loser, We're going to go your sister. You're like Puerto Rican. By the end of the day, literally, it was like the settings on the tanning bed are like Brazilian.

13:56 It's like, you know what I mean, No, it isn't.

13:58 Yeah, back in the day it was. I mean now, I'm sure it's more woke the tanning beds.

14:03 One.

14:06 Yeah, I remember being inside the tanning bed and being like, Wow, it's really hot in here. I never thought about it.

14:15 But yeah.

14:15 So for the people who message me about the dot on my forehead because I've been in tanning beds at such a young age, I get everything checked once a year or some Please when.

14:25 Did you decide that you should stop visiting the tanning It was pretty soon after. It wasn't.

14:32 It was more of like, there's nothing to do on Long Island, suburban life, childhood, what else is there to do? Get in the car, let's go change our race. You know, it's like, let's go change our skin color.

14:45 I could say something, but.

14:46 The transrace racial episode, Oh my god, we're going to get canceled. Oh my god, it's Karen kill Gariff, I gotta take this. It's canceled.

14:56 Yeah, it was fun.

14:58 Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity.

15:00 Yeah. I have a friend of mine who's she's she's also Hatitian American, and she used to want to sew bad. She used to want to go to a tanning salon just to see what they would say to her. She's like, we should go on April Fool's Day and just go in and be like, I want to package And I never. I was always just like I can't, I can't do it again. But she wanted to do it so badly.

15:26 She never did.

15:26 Though, I have a cousin. This is truly insane. We're so off topic.

15:30 Okay, but it's okay.

15:32 The show got canceled. Karen canceled us, so it's fine. She was born without toenails.

15:37 Okay, all of them, all of them. Okay, it's just skin where the should be. Is there a divot where the nail should go a little bit?

15:45 Okay, And she's always wanted to go to a nail salon and.

15:51 Get her toes the skin on her.

15:53 Chee can just be like red see what they do.

16:00 Wait, I'm back to this though. This is not something that I've seen on pedetary talk, Like.

16:07 I've never heard of this happening to any comment if you don't have toenails, because I don't know anyone else who was born without toenails except for my cousin.

16:15 She's got fingernails.

16:16 She got fingernails on normal fingernails.

16:18 And just on all ten toes, all ten, Okay, because I know a lot of people had like a wonky pinky toe. Yeah, because the pinky toe was always kind of weird and who needs it? Right? But well, you want the toe?

16:32 You agreed so fast.

16:33 No I don't need it, No, no, No, that's the nail the toe you want. Wow.

16:40 Wow, Okay, we've got a photo of the tootsies what is that called?

16:45 And nikka congenita?

16:47 Okay, if you have that, could you write us let us know. I'm just I'm actually now I'm curious about that. I wonder is it hereditary, Like I does one of her to do one of her parents have that problem? So it is like it's skipped generation or something.

17:04 I think it was like she always hypothesized because her h she was like, well I think my mom was probably smoking pot. It was like the sixties or seventies when she prob I don't think.

17:15 I don't think it'd be the toast. Do you know what I'm saying. I think it'd be some I don't think. I don't think it'd be that. I mean, I'm no doctor, but I'm like, I feel like it wouldn't be that.

17:25 I don't think it's the toast. I don't think it's the toes.

17:30 How old is your cousin?

17:32 She's older than me.

17:33 Was my age? Yeah?

17:34 Around your age? Yeah, she's her whole life.

17:36 So totally a little bit off topic, but like the topic. I know. The thing that was supposed to be the thing about parents from the seventies is they they were insane, right, Yes, My favorite picture of my parents is my mom is pregnant with me and my dad has like his his arm around her like this, only he's got a cigarette blowing it directly into her face, and my mom is holding what appears to be a screwdriver.

18:08 She's holding you as a baby.

18:10 She's pregnant with me. She's pregnant with me.

18:16 Okay, we'll bring a full circle. Okay, yeah, Pride Month. Okay, when I first figured out I was super gay, balls for boys Okay, I got really drunk.

18:27 How old were you?

18:28 I was like fourteen, fourteen fifteen. I got really drunk with my older sister. Oh barfed, but I was drinking screwdrivers. Full circle. That's the end of the segment, folks. We did it.

18:42 Thank you. We got there.

18:46 And I haven't really had a screwdriver since.

18:48 I mean, they don't taste that good.

18:50 Yeah, I know. I was like, y'all are excited to drink this?

18:53 Y you know what it reminds me of. This is not as bad though, the first time I had apparol sprits, Oh, can I tell you? I was so disappointed. I did a thing, but I was on vacation. We were in sag Harbor, and I did a thing about it on TikTok and I was just like, you guys like this.

19:09 They taste like robotussin.

19:11 It is.

19:12 It's gross, so disgusting. It tastes like medicine.

19:15 I mean, it's like Jaegermeister like anything, you know. To me, it's like one of those things like yuh, tastes like cough syrup.

19:23 Anyway, every time I see someone drinking and now it's nice out in New York, anytime I see someone drinking and operall spreads, I'm like, I know you're suffering. I know you're suffering. That is performed.

19:36 It is performative, and I that's the thing, right, do you come here?

19:41 Yeah, let us know, get in tight on our face.

19:44 Do you actually like the appaol sprits? You can tell us. I won't tell anybody. I'm genuinely curious. Do you enjoy it? Like? Is that? Like, oh my god, I'm going out and I'm going to get an apparall spirts and I'm super excited about it.

19:59 I think you're making it up?

20:01 Are you making it up? And so this is a safe space if you want to tell it is you're safe with me, You're I'm just curious because it is the foulest thing.

20:11 And if you think you like it, you're lying to yourself. That's my take, and it's yeah, no, you're lying you.

20:18 Yeah, it is lemon Cello Sprits, however, refreshing and delicious. I love lemon Cello. So good, so so good.

20:27 It's a break. Let's get into under earth. Let's talk about gay ass shit, let's talk about being super gay, and let's talk about we've had like a lot of gay content on this show. So I feel like Pride Month we could probably just like revisit some of the topics we were talking about, Like, I know, was there anything that you've been thinking about?

20:49 Like maybe did you see that King Charles had said that that the Labor Party was going to prioritize ben in conversion therapy, which is wonderful. I mean, I don't know if you guys remember a few episodes back we had a conversation about conversion therapy and how damaging it could be, I mean, good for the UK. The one thing I will sort of just randomly ask is, like I was just saying to you before, is that I didn't realize that the King could comment on things like that.

21:16 I thought they were just figureheads. But I think I.

21:20 Think we're in like old rules, new roles. Okay, he's getting involved, but I do think they're figure they're supposed to be. Figure out they are and they don't govern, then they don't get.

21:29 Involved in politics normally.

21:31 And I mean that's everything I learned from the Crown is basically she was like, I'm not gonna tell you what to do, but you're fucking up. Was basically like what was the message.

21:42 Right, and like her kids came out so great.

21:47 Is what's his name? Ran away, screaming, Harry Harry Ran scream sprinting away from the White House.

21:53 Now he lives in Calabasas.

21:57 I think something like the pasta, he said a biker gang in Sacelito. I do think a lot about conversion therapy, though, because I know people who've gone through the CRI.

22:11 You told me that sounds and like I had said when we talked about it, I think obviously just the idea of you being sent away and somebody sort of forcing you to change who you are fundamentally is bad enough. But I think on top of that, the idea that your parents, the people who should love you the most want to protect you the most, are the ones who sent you there, right. I don't know how anybody could forgive their parent for that. This has not happened to me, so I don't know. Your journey is your journey, But like, it just seems like it's a form of abuse. It feels such, it feels such yeah.

22:54 And it's oftentimes like so misguided. Because people believe in the church so much, they put so much faith than the church and the leaders of the church that they listen and believe them when they say, oh, this is what you should do. You're helping your kids here, right. And I will say that like my friends who I know have gone through conversion therapy, Like, I don't know, this is like how I sort of relate to them as like I kind of like classify them in my mind and in my life as an abuse spectim. I'm like this, they are still they still have issues of course right now as forty year olds.

23:30 Do you feel as though for the people that you know who have gone through it, they do they recover? Do you feel like or do you think it is for the rest of their lives that they're going to be sort of like fighting uphill against this thing that happened to them. I mean, I don't know.

23:47 I will say that, like from just the few folks that I know not painting with a broom here, I will say a couple people that I know from my perspective, their relationship to their sexuality is a little bit more complicated than mine. It seems like they maybe struggled more with coming out, struggled more with like in order to love some of roopulses is it's so cliche, but like, in order to love someone, you also have to love yourself.

24:13 And so I think when you enter into a relationship, regardless of your sexual orientation, you are like it's a reflection of you and how much you care about yourself. Right, it takes two to tango, and any marriage and any relationship, it takes two to kind of and there are a million different kinds of relationships and a whole constellation of them.

24:34 But I think with my friends who have gone through conversion therapy, I noticed that maybe their relationships are a little bit more complicated than maybe mine is. But that's as an outsider, right, and that's me kind of I guess passing a little bit of judgment or or projecting maybe onto them. But I will say what's undeniable is the long term effects. In law school, I dated a guy who had gone through conversion there. I went to law school in the South.

25:04 Was he southern?

25:05 He was Southern, And there were more gay men in the South who had gone through conversion therapy. It's not non existent in the North, but no, I get you, it's much bigger in the South.

25:15 South tends to be a much more conservative. Obviously, not everybody in the South is conservative, but it tends to be very conservative, and it's.

25:21 Also very like a church driven community. It's much more prominent there, I think, at least where I grew up. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean the pastor told you what to do? It's like, we don't listen to him. So, yeah, that was sort of my relationship with with those folks, and I guess with him it was I don't know what I want to It was not very long lived, I think, is what I'll probably say the relationship. Yeah, Yeah, it wasn't very long, was it.

25:47 Do you think it was because he was still grappling with what he had gone through? Or do you think it just didn't work.

25:51 I don't want to talk directly about him, but I will say generally, yeah, the men I dated in the South in twenty eleven were more at odds with their sexual orientation than I was at that age. I was twenty two, twenty three. I had figured it out years ago. This was an on issue. My parents didn't make a big deal out of it. They were like, cool, sounds good, like be careful, protect yourself. Also, all the roles that apply to your sister still apply to you, like you don't get a hall pass because you're gay, you know what I mean. And they were like, we're like also not tolerating any bullshit, by the way, Yeah, and that was like trying to Yeah, that was kind of that. Yeah, you can't call in gay to school, so I will

26:34 be trying that at work, your honor.

26:37 Yeah yeah, yeah shit today.

26:40 So I think like going down South for law school, I had grown up gay, was gay through college, was gay living in New York after college, and then was like, I'm going to go to law school, and then I went to the South. Right, I was in New Orleans, which is a pretty queer that's like the most queer liberal place I would say in the South. And I was like, whoa, you're really hung up on that. You're still really hung up on this coming out or your family wasn't really ever an issue or conversation. And the men I had dated in New York gotcha. So this is like, I guess we can classify this as like my perspective on yeah, North versus South, relationships with sexual identity from the first person point of view of dating

27:30 me dating that, Yeah.

27:32 I think a lot about the children that I have had that I have in my life, and I can't imagine doing something like that to my kid, Do you know what I mean? Because what I want, what I would want for I mean, I want this kind of for everybody, right, But like people are so much better I think at life when they are their authentic self, right, and when you you spend a good amount of time fighting against who you are, the rest of it kind of falls apart.

28:09 Because you know what I mean, because in your whole life fighting yourself correct, there's plenty of shit to fight in the world.

28:15 That's right, and that's right. Internal conflict, yes, oh honey, the internal conflict that has been brought on by the people who should be guiding you, by the people who should love you the most. Right, because if you you know, I can have an inner conflict about something that has nothing to do with my folks, right, But like, but if it did, that just it compounds the problem.

28:36 Right, Like I fight all day for work, but then when I come home, I'm like, look at this bad bitch in the mirror. Look at her, you know, like she's that girl face ten body tea. It makes me think about like I guess like kids who identify as transgender. It's a very fraught hot topic in America. Right We've got constant attacks on access to hormone blockers, puberty blockers, access to trans healthcare. I mean even in New York, this is in like a battleground state. This is like in Manhattan, m y U langone is no longer giving gender a firming care to miners. And so I think, and I want to like clarify because I think, you know, people listening to the show might be like, oh, well, kids shouldn't be getting surgery or we shouldn't be you know,

29:26 And I want to clarify when we say gender firming care for miners, we're talking about puberty blockers, which are a medication that's been around for decades. They give it to people with hormone disorders. It like was not being used for trans youth for a long time. So it's a very safe drug protocol from everything I've read on it. Basically, what it does is it pauses puberty. Because what basically happens is you go through puberty, especially if you were born assisman, and it develops a lot of very masculine traits.

30:04 You a get an Adamsapple, your voice gets really deep. Yes, And so what it does is it basically like smashes the pause button on puberty so that you can figure out what's going on, right or until you're eighteen and you're like, yes, I do indeed want gender reforming care. And it's like not a decision made lightly, like there's usually therapists in, you're psychiatrists involved. It's not like kids are sure why not after you're school there are a group of kids are walking.

30:31 Over to the like buying a beg of skittles.

30:33 Yeah, and so and oh, and that's the other thing. The second you go off puberty blockers, you go through puberty.

30:40 That was going to be my next question is that if you were to come to a conclusion that you no longer wish to be on it, you proceed through periody exactly, puberty exactly.

30:52 And so I think the risk is really low here. And it's similar to like abortion care where Republicans make it seem like getting an abortion is the red wedding, where they're just like, you're just getting like and it's not like that at all.

31:06 No, it isn't.

31:06 And I want to call out. I think there are some really interesting experts who talk in this space. I'd love to have them on the show. But kids who who identify as trans, who understand that they are on the gender spectrum or not the sex there was on at birth are oftentimes like much more self aware and understand themselves better than other kids. And so to just like not listen to that or like not do anything about.

31:32 That, or is it try and sort of stamp down on that.

31:36 Yeah, especially even gay kids, not even trans kids, that when they believe something about themselves and they say it right when I was fourteen figuring out I was gay.

31:46 It's like, I don't know.

31:48 I think people assume because they're kids, that we should take it lightly or that it's just a phase or that they'll move on.

31:53 I think that on the contrary, right, like you should really believe your child when they say something, and it's I think the other thing I would imagine because I want that right for you know, KP or my cousins and stuff. Please feel free, like you can come to me with anything, right and that whatever it is you know, and I will help guide you through it or help you figure it out or be supportive. Even like I say this to KP all the time, like I used to always feel like, if there's something going on, I want you to tell me. I might be mad, right, I might be mad, but like, but I love you enough to just want to help you figure it out, right, But yeah, am I gonna be pissed off? Maybe, but like not in a way to ever make you feel

32:42 like there's no love, Like that's the thing, And that's.

32:45 What I mean.

32:47 I think just generally, the world is full of a lot of angry, frustrated people for a lot of different reasons. And I think that had they been permitted to be who they were to and I mean, and it's a spectrum of things, right to go into a feel that they were really interested in, study what they wanted to in school, love who they love, whatever it is, then the world would just be a better place. And I know that sounds a little bit like world colored glasses, but there is something to.

33:17 That, right, I'm definitely something to it. I mean, And I've had like a complicated relationship with my own sexuality and identity, Like as I've gotten older, and I had a really tough time relating to like other gay people, Like it was really hard for me to make friends with gay people.

33:32 Why do you think that is.

33:34 I worked at a gay bar when I was really young. I was like eighteen nineteen, and it was I was, I think, a little too young to be working at a gay bar, and so I was put in a lot of situations where I learned a lot maybe like maybe at too young of an age.

33:51 Okay, I was so you were, so I saw it too much. So you were this young, impressionable young.

33:59 Man, and I was seeing like older thirty forty year old men being gay, which is like great thing. But I was maybe like the youngest person there, and I had to really be like protective of my of my piece when I was working.

34:17 Are you saying that in hindsight looking back at the eighteen At the time, I was like, I was like, this is tough. This is a tough gig, okay, okay.

34:26 And so for a long time after that, I think I assumed that that's what queer spaces were, that was queer community, and I was experiencing it as like so young in a space where it really was quite a licentious space, right, like everyone was there to like party and have fun, and I was like this young guy.

34:47 I thought for a really long time that I would in queer spaces always have to have my guard and that is just not true. And there are so many safe queer spaces and I just had been ex bos to one that I guess in retrospect, was not safe. Okay, And you know, I'm learning a lot about like drugs and like sex and all that stuff when I was really when I was still a teenager. You know, I was over eighteen, so I could work at the bar.

35:16 But I was like learning a lot really fast. And like I remember I called and like this one friend, he was a waiter. We were really good friends. We got super close and we would drink. We would go drinking like all night after work. And he didn't come into work the next day and I was calling him, calling him and like it's a big bar restaurant, I've got to cover the whole thing. And he called me back like hours later. He was in rehab because he had gone in like a crazy coke bender the night before. Meanwhile, I'm nineteen, I'm like, oh yeah, we're staying up all night. Yeah, I'm like I don't have to sleep. I'm good. I wasn't even doing any drugs, right, I was just like, oh yeah, I could just jump all night days, no sleep, Yeah,

35:58 I'm good.

35:59 Yeah. No, he was on drugs, okay, and so it was like experiences like that, so sorry, So he would be able to stay up for an extended amount of time while on drugs, but you were not and were able to stay up.

36:13 Yes, And you know what, I probably could do it today, could you really? I could probably stay up for like two days if I was having a good time, lots of friends around.

36:23 Yeah. Yeah.

36:27 So like circling back to it like I recently just not recently, but in the past, you know a few years, I really have had time and space to and really in need and desire post pandemic to have queer safe spaces that I can go to.

36:41 Do you think you found those places?

36:43 Hell? Yeah? Okay, And like that is like a message I want, you know, the young baby gays listening follow me on TikTok to know, is that like it's going to take you time, maybe not, don't wait until you're thirty eight to try a second time to like find queer community and friendship. But it's out there, like keep looking like it will find you. You will find it, and don't like close yourself off to that so quickly because that's what I did, and I wish I had it sooner. I think it would have really helped me because now I feel like so great and how you have it?

37:15 Why do you think that it took you this long? Like was it that first experience in working in this bar where you felt like you were overexposed to something or a certain kind of population in a person, or is it just you were just eventually it took you a longer time to learn about who you were.

37:36 I think it was like I opted out. I think I opted out really quickly where I was like this isn't for me. I'm out, Like I was a little traumatized, okay, and I just never really It's like when you drink too much tequila m hm, and you're like, I'm never drinking.

37:51 Tequila again until the next time that you do.

37:54 Until you're stuck on the Haunted Virus cruise and you're like, you know, let me have a margarita, and then you're and then you're like, this is actually pretty good, right, you know. It's kind of like that where I was like, oh wow, I haven't had this in a really long time. Let me experience it. And I also think I'm married now, I'm old as shit, I'm bald, like guys aren't like throwing themselves at me. Like it's a little less stressful to be in a gay space. I can, I can truly find friendship rather than like a cruisy experience. Yeah, yeah, okay, you see what I mean?

38:29 You know that I can see. I mean there is there is a certain freedom that I think that you acquire as you age. I definitely feel that. Taraji p Henson was talking to somebody and she said that she really feels like women especially are born with a certain amount of fucks.

38:49 Yes, yeah, oh I saw this.

38:51 Did you see this? And then she's like, by the time you are fifty, you've run out of fuss now. And I definitely feel like that, right Like I feel like I don't you know now, I don't say no, I don't want to do this because I can't that I don't want to go. I don't want to do this thing. I you know what I mean, I don't want to I don't what I don't want to know?

39:13 Our book is.

39:16 I mean it?

39:17 It is just that you know, as you get older, you find your voice. No, I know, you figure out who you are you figure out who you would like around you, what kind of person you don't want to around you? And it takes time.

39:34 Yeah.

39:34 So, I mean when I think about twenty five year old Melissa versus fifty four year old Melissa, a different animal altogether. And I wouldn't be that age again for anything. I would not.

39:46 You could not pay me to be twenty five, even.

39:50 Though I had that really good skin.

39:52 No, it's not.

39:54 The skin was glorious.

39:56 I mean your skin is snatched.

39:58 No, not like twenty five. And I was fatter, so the fat was keeping my face fresh.

40:03 Oh a fat face is a wrinkle free face.

40:07 It really is.

40:08 It's beautiful, it really is.

40:09 I'm not even kidding no me either. That's why you see sometimes you see people who have lost a lot of weight, and you're like, wow, they look really old. Because Michael, I'm serious, it's really really true. It's like, oh, what happened to so and so? Because you're wrong, Oh wow, what happened to so and so you're like, Oh, they just lost fifty pounds. That'll do it.

40:29 I have a friend, she's her mantra is that doesn't work for me. That's what she says to everyone. No excuse, Oh you want it, that doesn't work for me. No, And that's it, and it's honestly great. And when she says it to me, I'm like, great, Okay, I'm going to move on to the next person, you know, like it's great, or when she says yes, it's like cool, Yeah, I love that knows a complete sentence.

40:52 I think you avoid being around people who make you feel like shit.

40:56 This is like creating a safe space.

40:58 That's what I think I mean. And I I know I keep on talking about kp Alab, but she was the kid in my life right when as she was growing up and becoming a young woman, one of the things that I said to her was, you get to choose who is in your space. Yes, you get to choose the things that you do, the things that you don't do, what works for you, and that is friends, sexual partners, things that were right. Nobody is permitted to abuse you. And I think that it took me, as a young woman, a really long time to learn that because nobody nobody told me those things. Right, Like, I grew up in a household where you did what the teacher said, you did what your parents said, You didn't ask questions. You you know, you there was never an

41:54 opportunity where you could be sick and not go to school, do you know what I mean? Like I can't remember. My brother was. We were talking about this the other day and my brother was remembering the time that my mom sent into school with the chicken pox. Go my mom. My mom sent me to And I think.

42:14 Because for her, the immunologists and the comments, their fingers are on fire.

42:20 Because I think, I mean, and I'll say this, he didn't go with the full breakout, right, but there was like a suspicious spot and she probably should have had it checked out. And she did it, and then he got sick of it. Was what was in the nineties, joey eighties.

42:33 It's the eighties, Yeah, you know.

42:36 And I remember she sent me. I'll never forget this, she sent me to school. I said to her, Mom, I don't feel good, Melissa. You go into school, okay. I went to school, proceeded to get violently ill in school. The nurse called my mother, who did not want to come pick me up. And I will never forget it, she said to my mother. Missus Melbridge, Melissa is shivering.

42:58 Melissa has been up down to the bathroom at least three times. You must come and get Melissa. You must come and get Melissa when I tell you my mom came pissed at me, pissed at me. So again, and I say this to say you you know you did not ask questions. Yeah, you didn't ask questions, right.

43:23 So really interrogate yes.

43:25 So that's I mean, that's what I'm saying, is that you know. I mean, I know it's hard when you're a kid, you're sick or whatever, but like this idea of you are allowed to question people, why do you want me to do this thing?

43:35 But also question yourself and whether this works for you? Like I think about it, feel good. I keep coming circling back to when I'm thirty eight and I'm still learning. I'm like, Michael, this person has told you who they are. You need to believe them. Stop reaching out to hang out with this person when you know this is what they're like, or like this is how they behave, or that they never text back or whatever it is, or that when you really needed them, they weren't there for you.

44:00 Like a lot of it is like they say, boundaries start within, right, you set the boundaries, but you also have to maintain them. You do. And so a lot of times when people are like, there are no boundaries in my life, it's like that has to That is partly your fault. You have to figure it out and set that.

44:17 And I think that it's very different for young boys and men. Yeah, I think young girls and women are. We are taught to be nice, and I was taught to ask for what you need, so much so that Michael and I have had conversations where I'm like, I don't think I could ask for that, and you know, like you need to approach this like a white gay man.

44:39 Can we talk about this?

44:40 Can we talk about this? Our booking fee? Our booking fee. When Melissa and I get booked for something, we talk about it, and like I am always like, this is in order for me to leave and go do this thing. This is my number. And Melissa makes this face if you're listening, she's big eyed. She's so nervous right now because I am.

45:00 I'm actually I'm very uncomfortable.

45:02 You were raised to not talk about money and to not talk about salary, how much you make, what your value is in the marketplace. I was when I was like a young boy, I remember the men in my life talking about asking for raises or making more money or how to invest in like that was very much ingrained ever since I got my first job when I was in my early twenties, like my first salary job.

45:29 It was like, you go ask for a raise as soon as you can.

45:32 I will. I will tell you this story. So I don't know how long ago, this was quite a long time ago. I had had a boss who sort of up and left abruptly, and they didn't backfill their position for a really long time. So I was basically handling everything. I did, all this stuff my job, their job, managing everything, keeping sort of the ship afloat. And at the end of that year, I got like a stellar review, but I didn't they didn't offer me any additional.

46:09 Honey norma rayized.

46:11 So I went to the person that I was reporting to and I said, Hey, this is my review. And I was so anxious to do it. But anyway, I went to this person and I said to them, I think I deserve a raise, and then she looked at me and she was like, you do, you absolutely do. And she said to me, I'm so glad that you asked me, because if you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have given it to you. And that it upset me on a few different levels. Do you know what I mean?

46:45 Because she's acknowledging that I deserved the bump and salary. She's acknowledging that I had worked really hard but did not feel like she could just give it to me, that I needed to ask for it.

46:59 That's still and it makes you think about all the people who didn't ask, who were in the same situation as you or for me. It made me think about this person doesn't know what's going on at her own organization and maybe didn't even review these reviews for who deserves what discretionary increase? Right? I will say, like we'll button this up by saying, yes, I was raised to ask for more money men generally are. That doesn't mean to the two men listening that I verified that you just like taking a walk away, you use your male privilege to support the women in your life who maybe are afraid to ask for more money. I'm not talking about you right now, but I get that call all the time from my clients who are thinking about, you know,

47:52 need help with their job search or whatever. How do I negotiate this. Your responsibility as a ally to your female friends and the women in your life is to use that privilege to help close that wage gap, right, because no one is going to even if you're a man, woman whatever. Uh, no one's going to proactively close that wage gap. We have to ask for it to be closed, right, And that that onus isn't on women, That onus is also on men. So yeah, like, be a good ally.

48:26 I guess if you're a dude, like help people, help the women in your life advocate. So I handle our booking fee for this show.

48:38 I'm getting better at it.

48:39 You have you booked a gig without me and did and you called me and I helped advise. And that's what we're going to do. That's how we're going to handle it from now on. Okay, it's really ingrained. It's ingrained in your psyche.

48:52 Yeah, very much. Is, very much is. But yeah, I mean I think what would be what do you think looking back for you, twenty five year old Michael, what do you.

49:03 Think that creating a safe space for queer people like what I could have done or have done differently? I think for me, I should have gone for it a little bit more.

49:13 I think I was what does that mean for you?

49:14 I was so afraid because I kept ending up in situationships with friends, like I would try and be friends with someone and it would turn into a thing. So I think for me, I really held back after that happened a bunch. I was like, Oh, I'm going to not I'm not going to try and be friends with this person, even though they seem really cool and I really want to hang out with them. Instead, I'm going to remove myself and not engage because I don't want to end up in like a weird situation that could have easily been avoided if I just set boundaries. If I just set boundaries with those folks and said, no, I just want to be friends with you. That's a boundary.

49:52 I have to maintain it. But I wasn't and I wasn't maintaining it, and that was the slippery slope that I kept falling into. I select self selected out and said I'm going to tap out rather be alone than have to deal with all this emotional trauma. Got you, Yeah, you know what I mean. So for me, I think I would have been a little bit more. I would have I guess gone out on that limb. Yeah, all right, let's take a break. Okay, welcome back to Brief Reslets.

50:18 Brute, Welcome back to Brief Recess.

50:23 This is tales from the DMS. We're going to talk about all the wild things y'all send us. I love it so much, Melissa, do you have anything you want to say? Maybe about me being a lawyer.

50:32 Oh so you're trying to correct. Perhaps it's your line, friends, what do I always say? While Michael is a lawyer, he's not your lawyer, So shop around for your own.

50:43 Okay, I've got a great email from we don't know who it's from, but probably to protect the innocent. When that guy, you know, the one leaves this earth. I absolutely want to be woken up to quote a tweet I saw. You can't even wake me up. You can even wi me up from surgery.

51:04 Oh my god.

51:04 I've been planetosed to party when it happens for over a year and it's been my biggest coping mechanism.

51:09 It might happen.

51:10 He's got all that makeup on his hand, on his neck, he's got those giant ankles.

51:17 He's really unwell.

51:18 I've been collecting alcohol patriotic decor and even made my own hip shape hymn shaped pinata.

51:24 Oh my god, are we going to show? Are we going to show the piana? It is great done.

51:32 Wow, this person's really manifesting.

51:34 They are dedicated.

51:36 When I don't feel like cleaning myself or my house, I say, but what if the party's today? That's a great motivator, it is, I suppose and I get my ship back together. When he threatens to set off a nuclear apocalypse, which has actually happened a couple of times, I text my friends to ask what they'll wear to my party. This is like such a This is hope core this person.

51:56 It's very helpful.

51:57 Pulling themselves out of a depressive funk.

52:00 There.

52:00 Yeah, uh well this party care everything. No, my things get weird and dangerous. Yeah, but I'll be damned if I don't have some morbids celebrating a few days give myself a reason for hope. In the meantime, stay sexy, question mark. I love it. Y'all are amazing.

52:20 You know what I think is really interesting about this is the amount of people that I hear saying similar things, right, people who are like with and I think what's interesting is that I think these are probably people who have not been the sort of folks who wish death on that other person. But this is where we are right now, yes exactly, and it makes it also makes me uncomfortable, right like, I like, I struggle with it because I don't want to be the kind of person who's like, I hope somebody dies and it's not about the other person.

52:54 It is about me and my karma, yes exactly.

52:56 Yeah, No, we're not. We're not like nice and hopeful because like we want good in the world. We're like that because we're selfish and we want good karma. So I just want to make that clear.

53:08 Yeah, but I mean it is so loathsome to me that this is where we are. I'm doing That's what I hate.

53:14 We're doing good things for the wrong reason.

53:20 Anyway.

53:21 Okay, you've got to read number three this one.

53:23 My friends. I love you, Thank you for the endless entertainment. Michael, I see you on your flawless skin, but I have to move on. Melissa, Misa girl, Hippo love queen. I've loved hippo since day one. We are not pigmy hippo mood. Dang bandwagoners love them and their territorial asses. I've had a hippotas tattoo for ten years. My family thinks it's regrettable.

53:50 Picture is attatted. Please keep doing what you all are doing. Love Jenny, Hospice r and from the Bay Area, and she sent us a picture of her hippo tattoo. Jenny, thank you, my sister in hippo love. I appreciate you. And also, Jenny, thank you for the work that you do. I feel like hospice work is really god yeah, really important work. And thank you so much for what you do.

54:12 And I love the hippo tattoo. And I'm dead serious, I want a hippo tattoo so bad.

54:18 She called it a regrettable tattoo.

54:20 But he does not.

54:23 Let me tell you about regrettable tattoos. Do you have any Our friend who was recently on the podcast, Alyssa, went on a bachelorette trip and got a neck tattoo.

54:34 It's not easily visible, it's still on the neck. The thing about it is, here's the thing about the tattoos. No no, no, Because she got the tattoo and didn't want it, but she got it anyway.

54:49 She was so loyal to her friend.

54:51 Right, they decided that if they did thing X that they were all going to get this.

54:55 Let's get a tattoo on the party and then I can't rememb memory. She was like the third person from the group to get it right, and she said the first two got it. And the whole time she was like, I should not.

55:06 I don't want this, I don't want this. But she was like, you know, I made I made a promise. She committed to the bit and she is now with this and it's just such a it.

55:17 Says Bodega in cursive, right across her throat.

55:21 It's on the back of her neck. And I think it's a is it a squiggly.

55:25 Line or it's some sort of straight line A line. It's just like a little line tattoo. But I love that about her.

55:31 No, but I think what was really funny was like I actually didn't want to do it, but I said that I would, so I did. Girl, what I'm not going to be a tattoo that I don't like. That's ridiculous.

55:44 This has been brief. Resais thank you for joining us. I guess I'll see you in cord not me. This has been an exactly right production recorded at iHeart Studios, posted by me, Michael Foot.

55:57 And Me Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni.

56:01 This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

56:03 Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cottner.

56:07 Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue Mansa Lilac with photography by Brad Obono.

56:14 Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark, and Danielle Kramer.

56:19 You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot and I'm.

56:24 On both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.

56:27 Got legal questions, reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia dot com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and of course we're a podcasts with video. Search for Brief Recess on YouTube