Money, Fear & the Magic of Being a Concert Pianist - Olga Scheps

0:00 Thirty years ago you had this label chef who was deciding if you are visible or not. Not, If You Are Famous Or Not! How does the payment structure with a label look like? democratized success in a way there. And they are talking to you about your dress. and why do you wear this dress? Do you wear high heels on stage, or make-up?

0:30 Does that help you? Are you successful because you're pretty is something we do for purpose Olga! You the first Solo artists on the program. great having you here and today we will talk about many interesting things. but The market which is not the art itself, right? Which is the whole business part around it?

0:57 your fees Your agency network. You career trajectory how you combine your family life with your profession And so on and so forth. But maybe first take us back. How did she even start playing piano? I started playing piano because grew up in a musical family. My parents are both pianists and both teachers, so I was taught to play the piano from early childhood And piano is always one of my ways to express myself.

1:30 It's also part of life and children copy everything what their parents do. So I assume and from the words of my parents, are learned playing the piano like. I learned walking And talking doing everything. so it was always part of my life. Was is a very strict environment? It sounds like very strictly not at all Not at all!

1:50 And i see this with My kids as well. you can learn things With them As You know Like Part Of Life A game right. it's NOT LIKE YOU FORCE THEM TO DO SOMETHING. you just do Things with Them And then they learn. If a child is surrounded by people who play an instrument, They think everybody in this world plays instruments and have fun doing it.

2:13 It's not like you force them to do that. I also learned with my children reading and writing because we did so in the right way if there was no mood for doing something else. My parents are actually very much like me. So it was something we did together. It is playing music. Is a beautiful thing. it's one of the most Beautiful and fun things you can do, or its very joyful.

2:41 So as a child it was just part of my life. I get it. And then how would have like? How did the first steps look like? were your like at age ten already Like very very talented and very good and Playing here in there? Or ha-how does that set up. so according to my parents i had or have a talent which I don't know exactly what talent actually is.

3:05 That I'm very good at the piano, but also know that this is a result of very much work and training in daily practice. And experience on stage as well... I feel close to music so I can open up when I play a concert. Did you do a young studio? When did it start studying? Yeah, in Germany we have this opportunity.

3:37 We can do the Jungstudium without... You study under the age of eighteen right? So when did you start sixteen? Sixteen? yes I started with sixteen. so Playing when I was a child, but it wasn't like you have to practice eight hours a day. It's just part of life. Then we left Russia... I was born in Moscow.

3:59 We left Russia at the age of ninety-two and I was six years old And then moved into a little town which is called Wuppertal Close to Cologne and so on. When i was sixteen years old ,I started as young student Cologne Music University. Totally, and then from there I kind of like got professional right?

4:25 How were the first interactions with The people who taught you back in the day? because they think also They gave me maybe confidence And where may be a key effect on that upward trajectory? You later experience. so you gained huge success already In pretty early stage of your career Back in today. how was it set up?

4:47 So I'm analyzing now my career and before i go to my way,I think that being an artist is a very individual way. There's no magic trick or this. how you have. In my opinion, there is no magic formula. So you have to win this competition and do it then be a famous pianist forever. I don't think that's how it works.

5:15 If we look at the playing pianists from generations before they all had their own way. This was very... Common also that you didn't have this one big moment. It made your famous forever. it is a way of many different steps and in my case I never participated In the big competition, I started with Different steps performing And i started to sending My recordings.

5:49 two different people and what was One? Big step on. first step into the industry was you can music. yet This is this national competition here in Germany that have different Bundes-Ebene, Landes-Ebene... In your region. In the Bundesland whether it's Bayern or NFA and then you know exactly there are many participants yeah And I think that many people really in Germany who play an instrument, they participated there on different levels.

6:18 I also participated in that! And it's so much fun isn't? Because you meet with all the musicians and have this opportunity to perform... ...and to meet other people as well a bit competing or having feelings of what is going on. It's like your first network where you get the feeling many people who later on don't enter the profession, right?

6:40 Obviously. But it's like already people mean it so they practice and so on... This was your first success moment. I won a first prize And back then in this year where i won the first prize The only pianist who was invited to all the prize winner concerts in this prize-winner concerts where people listened to me and recommended me to other people.

7:08 And that's how it was growing slowly, so I've got my first invitation to Clavier Festival Rua, Franz Xaver Onesorck. He gave the chance as one of the big concert promoters... ...to play a concert. i wasn't well known at all but he listened with me and said ''I want to invite her''. I think there is something special about him.

7:31 This was the first big step for me, because to play in Clavier Festival Rouen it's maybe the most famous piano festival on the world. It is a big step and this is something... How large were your audience back then? It wasn't that much. It was in Dortmunds and there are about three hundred people but it was at Clavier festival Rouen You know!

7:50 Something very special. Then, you know somebody heard me. then it was translated on the radio and then somebody hurt me somewhere else. And also at the same time I sented my very first radio recording. It was Frederick Chopin Fantasie F Minor. I recorded for Védé Air Radio Somewhere some local concert.

8:14 i don't exactly remember. We were recording this on a CD just Brennan. You Know This Copy On A CD And I sent it to Alfred Brandl, and I wrote the letter. Alfred Brandel is a wonderful pianist... ...and he's one of the most amazing pianists! So I just wrote him and hoped that we could get a reply from him.

8:37 I was fifteen years old when he invited me in. That would be interesting if you connected with a timeline so people can relate too. Okay, age fifteen. So at the age of fifteen you already won, Jungmus is here and you were kind-of like in... Okay okay it sounded rather like you're twenty five right? You are fifteen.

8:58 It was around fifteen, sixteen, seventeen this time. And what happened.. What else happened that this time. Then Jungstudium started and how did you already like play recitals? I played a little bit here in there. It was not that i had regular concerts every month, but here and they are played And I wasn't sure actually back then if will do it for living or not... ...I was open to other professions as well.

9:25 For example what ? I need be a pianist.. I was interested in study law. there was a big interest of me. And I was thinking about different professions because i have different interests, you know? That I wasn't like fixed and need to be a pianist but... ...I found out that it's very joyful for me. It gives me purpose, this feeling or fulfillment.. ..and just give something!

9:50 So I really enjoy playing the piano and see people connect with me through music. People seem to like my concerts. They invite again they come back. I had the feeling that, you know what i do is of use and beautiful for people. there's an audience. Totally So. I came slowly into it started to connect also with different People in the industry like Alfred Brandl or Arivarji Professor Pavel Gililov.

10:24 just get connections have lessons learn somehow try to go You know, you start to meet the people because industry is not that big. If there's some new talent somewhere... ...you start to be recognized if you play in Clairvier Festival Roux. and then I stepped into Rangour festival. It was also a Rangou music festival.

10:47 Yes, it was really young but not well known And I stepped in for Till Fellner back then, for Recital and Ringo Festival. This also had a very good review than... Back then in this time reviews were very important. to have a good review. that was again something you had and you consented. an agency show them look what they achieved etc.

11:13 That's what i did. It is so interesting! My time in school because I went also to like a musical boarding school, right? And what was the thing is that of course there were a couple exceptional people whether it Was in piano and violin playing or jealous are in singing. Right um and What was their? is they got very positive feedback and recognition For you know, the level they are at a very young age right and many people in the class couldn't play piano on that level.

11:44 And so we thought like okay this person or that person wow They will be super star musicians one day Right? So You get recognition. Obviously then as a child This feedback maybe leads to the point where I'm thinking. Maybe it's something i want to approach In my life Because obviously I got positive feedback.

12:03 Then leave your bubble Where you're The exceptional person and you enter where all the exceptional persons are whether it's in sports or music. And so on, then you realize who the law of the market is. maybe a bit different right? So how about to see them? did your parents? but what did your parent prepare?

12:18 that let's not be naive rights I mean there. Did she parents prepared? prepare you for want to expect on the market? because they knew already an audit? They just Let you go and make your own experiences. You know we grow up with all this fantastic pianist at we see around. You think that this is the level you have to have when you enter industry.

12:43 And, of course after a certain level it becomes a question of taste... ...this another story but you need to achieve at minimum levels to be professional musician. Back in day what was driving? This like being on stage alone and performing right. this like a little maybe also ego motivation. We say okay.

13:10 I'm this person who creates that kind of art or was it? Mean you can earn nice money, right if you play well in the career. So what with the motivators back in today at eighteen to twenty year. Olga yeah started It wasn't mix off Actually. all of these points because, of course also ego is involved. Of course your love to music is involved and the way that you figure out Okay what I do is liked by people And they invite me again.

13:40 if i practice well get better. all pianists can actually play this piece with such high energy. And I experience it so often, there's a magical moment in the concert where i'm really sharing the emotions and when i'm Really In This Magical Being Together With Other People! And...I Often Experience That People In The Audience They Cry There Is So Emotional And This is Something Very Very Special Yeah Very Beautiful.

14:10 It'S Not An Every Concert Like This. I Think This Is Maybe Something that I can give to the people. That's very true! And also it is not only about fun and joy, It gives me a feeling of purpose, it gives me fulfillment. Maybe this what i can give because This is what makes A human being in the end happy.

14:34 when you have a purpose When something has to be given or made better place Let's connect it a little bit to the economic side because for me, It is always important. two also connected dots there. So what happened? How did you build and how was that set up? so on You said I mean research didn't win any competition like bigger competition or anything right?

14:59 Um...you got your first big PR moment with contract which gave you a lot of recognition from professional part of market. at what age Actually, my second album was Sony Classical. My first album I made with R.V. Records and together with Clavier Festival Roux. it was released in the Fono Forum back then.

15:26 The Fono forum was releasing concerts of Clavier festival roux. that were actually my first release And my second release i did with Sony classical in two thousand ten And I won the Echo Classic for my first album with Sonic Classical. How old were you there in ten? So, i'm going through my bio and... ...i don't know if i mentioned all of the steps that i did but.. There are many different steps that also.

15:51 Alfred Brandl introduced me to My First Agency. This happened at the same time when i got an invitation from an orchestra. They were back then, they were called classical philharmonie born and the chief conductor was Herbert Beisser. And this is the youth orchestra of The City Of Born I think. now there are called T-Mobile Orchestra or something.

16:12 i'm not sure we should google that up. so This orchestra managed it somehow Back. Then It's like We're Talking About Two Thousand Five Or Something Like Long Time. They Managed To Have Tours through Germany in the best concert halls, like Hercules Hall, Bremen Glocke, Hamburg. All these biggest concert halls and they invited me to play eight concerts with them for Chopin Piano Concerto number two And this was my first big tour of orchestra.

16:40 I remember back then when i was sitting with father at his office he said you will have those concerts. You know, it's your DNA. you played so honestly and so beautifully. What can we do to get some attention for? Because the concert will pass by. And what then? maybe We should hire somebody who would invite journalists To The Concerts So that you Get Some Attention For That.

17:15 Maybe Other People Start To Know More About You. Then I remember We agreed I collected some money from some concerts and we agreed that we would hire somebody who will invite the journalists. And this is a quite common practice when there's release, normally many artists hire someone like press agency... ...and we hired this lady in Munich with my father and met this very cool lady Gabriele Ahrens.

17:46 I'm not sure if she's doing promotion classical music anymore, i think she is doing some dating agency or something like that and She was a very elegant energetic lady And she agreed to work with us and she actually made this work back then That she invited many journalists for the tour yeah, and I had many good reviews which also helped me and she Also connected Me With A guy who was a journalist back then, Who just moved to Munich To kind of start new life.

18:20 But let's maybe jump in there because I always want to connect it. So you said two or eight concerts? It sounded like really professional. Was that the first time where you earned decent money with your profession? I heard something...I don't exactly remember how much i earned But what I remember and was maybe more valuable for me is that i had the opportunity to perform.

18:43 That's the thing, do you have at beginning like influence on your fee? Probably not right! You're working with an agency yet?! We know we've got two currencies in our industry... The first currency is money which all need of course to survive.. You did make money from this and there isn't anything superficial about it being a artist but also thinking how to make money because if you don´t make money then you are forced something else other than art your art and being an artist, you should also think about how to make money.

19:10 So of course this is something we have. Back then, I was not famous at all. It was for me very valuable that they gave the chance to perform on these big stages in front of many people and having this opportunity to invite also journalists some important people from industry... ...to show how i play.

19:40 so if you see them or don't know about it.. ..i cannot make any career. Totally! All those things came. but Let me repeat the question again. At what age did you sign Sony Classical? Do you know that? Two thousand ten, how old was I? Between twenty five and thirty eight. Twenty or something yeah. That's a thing okay Okay.

20:01 And then from there... How does such a deal look like? Today also i have the feeling many labels sign younger artists but than they artist has to pay for producing a CD with them and so on. How was that deal structured? I mean, then you recorded one album. did you have to pay for the recording or Was it given to you?

20:28 how do these deals look like? okay So i'm not sure what parts of it i'm actually allowed To tell. yeah because You know part Of the agreement that you don't talk about everything there. but i would say It's a common practice For young artists That if you Have A major Deal also pay a percentage of your live concerts to the label.

20:51 Okay, interesting! But it improves because when you make more money for the label then You can pay less percentage off your concert. and I don't know exactly how The contracts are different artists but A lot is made on. Let's invest in work And see how it goes because we see some potential and if it goes well, you will make more money with everything.

21:17 With concerts back in the day There were there are pretty much like only Sony classical and Deutsche Grammophon right? I mean which where like that they're major so to speak. me my dad listens to. Like have the CDs at home, right? Yeah Pretty much Only those two labels or visible there i mean today There are more, right?

21:37 So there is maybe Harmonia Mundi or there's Pentaton. Or there's Berlin Classic. so these like small niche labels as well. that kind of give a nice entry point towards the journey to The Majors. but now you're without it labeled. did I see them correctly? Yes i'm an independent artist since two thousand twenty one Independent means you can record with everyone.

22:04 Yes, I'm not exclusively tied to a label. Um i have a concert agency and that's it right. so Right? Do everything by myself. what do you think i mean? why do artists enter? Enter collaborations with labels? well That's that's really individual question. You know when i talk to us businessman i think there are so many similarities between What we do.

22:25 because um We talked about being an entrepreneur And Being a person in business, I think if we don't overcomplicate it. If you create something and to do something which is useful for other people beautiful father-people Other people like it And they pay... You have the business! These are these decisions that you have to make every day.

22:53 What do i do with this product? Of course This your art but at same time I think you need to always self-analyze and also look what do i want to do, What kind of attention do i have? what are my skills? What are my weaknesses, you know like this SWOT analysis. It's the same that we have to do and also just think about how we scale and how we improve And what target audience Do.

23:22 We Have all The Same Questions and I Think These Are The Questions. You Have To Deal With it and Also You Need To Look At Your Individual Situation And To Ask Yourself Do i Want A Label? Do I need a label? What Do I want to Create? Because We Have An Hour Time an advantage that all these big classical musicians like thirty years ago didn't have.

23:42 They didn't the internet, they did not social media and I know this. dark places about social medias, dark things about social media, about algorithms that are frying our brains...I understand! But there is a huge advantages of social media. we underestimate totally Everything. we can create an own fame.

24:07 actually on your own you Can become a famous artist doing tiktoks all day and this gives You in independence. it's gives you freedom, and that gives you visibility. Thirty years ago. You had this label chef who was deciding if you are visible or not? Not If you're famous or what? Every artist can have an own YouTube channel and on tiktok And all everything in create the way you want it.

24:41 In the tempo You wanted, really everybody Can do this. who has a phone? A phone gives you equality which is good enough to Have a youtube channel. This super great. The internet's really democratized success in a way there right Yes! It just give us opportunity To be at one level with A label. is not somebody, you know big and your other artists.

25:03 And they decide everything. it's a partner equal that That's the good thing and you can't decide if you want to do something together or no. totally I mean what? Is What does the incentive of a label? It's probably too to increase the streaming business. right You have quite a bit. just check two hundred forty K monthly listeners on Spotify.

25:23 That might be more like. maybe it's on a monthly basis calculated and so. but this is quite something if I compare with other artists that are also pretty successful in the market, The interesting part of There's this real world market, so to speak. The halls you're performing in and so on and so forth the feast that you get.

25:46 And there is this digital marketplace right? This streaming business! I think the streaming businesses may be a little bit more scalable In that sense because many people can consume Simultaneously your music. You only could perform once at one place obviously But i have the feeling That still Many artists who are not successful in the streaming game At all Who were very successful in the real world market, so to speak.

26:10 So like very high nice fees and so on wearing a nice name. Where does that separation come from? I think it's a very individual question. other music works good in stream than live. for example if you listen to Symphony of Tchaikovsky Listen To It Live. this is most beautiful experience You can have but don't listen on your phone In streaming Or you can listen to it, but that's a different kind of experience in streaming.

26:39 what goes well. And I'm not judging anything or recommending something... ...I just see some things and comment on them. It is the way it is! The shorter pieces work better in stream. The shorter ones are better because they're like two minutes long already. I had this discussion many times with Sven Schumann who was now the new chief in Sony Germany who I worked with Michel Bruggemann many, many years.

27:08 And now Sven took his position and they actually talked to me. now because my numbers are well. we talked about maybe doing something together. nothing confirmed yet? But these other conversations that you had have their positions. see the numbers. what works good in stream as an artist? a little bit different interests when your talk is labeled.

27:34 it was in my case always that we We talk from different perspectives. And there are things that I want to do and the label wants because everybody has a little bit of interest in it, so you have to make decisions about what fits with your needs or feels correct for yourself? It's very important to be honest with yourselves and analyze if this is the kind of attention we need, whether music we want to record... How does one actually want to be presented into the world when they don't?

28:06 and questions that you as an artist need to make. And this has, of course... Yeah, it shapes your brand? Of course! Yeah sometimes is the best thing to say no or something but maybe let's connect back there. just a question different music sells differently. after ten years working with Sony classical Michel Bruggemann came for me.

28:26 he said You know what have carte blanche. now You can record whatever you like. We're working so nicely together for such a long time and we talked about different things, let you record what you want, sometimes we would suggest it and sometimes had ideas where we have a completely one idea of something.

28:50 It went very well. that's the greatest case when these two worlds meet with each other. like my Satie album for example. I loved Satie. they love. their idea was number-one in the charts but sometime you need to sit down talk We don't say anything, just record whatever you like. And I said okay that's my chance!

29:11 i can do contemporary chamber music That the streaming will be zero no charts nothing. but there is this work by Mistislav Weinberg which was a piano quintet and it such a genius work. It not very harmonic Very complicated Beautiful, brutal, genius Just absolutely beautiful sad work. and so, so deep beautiful music.

29:39 And I understood that it's not going to sell... ...and they understood as well.. ..that i will choose something which won't be sold. but for me it was artistically important to record this winter. This is the only cover that has NOT my face on it with fancy make-up or just trees Just four trees looking in the sky!

29:57 I recorded with Cousquartet an amazing quartet from Berlin... ...I am very proud of this recording and this is of course the ONLY recording not even close to any top twenty or anything. Obviously you gained that position over ten years of success, right? I mean how does the payment structure with a label look like?

30:14 did at the year end get a summary? okay these are now your CDs that you sold for the vanilla streams and you got X amount on your bank account. How is it set up? You know i'm so happy That don't really deal. You get money, right? Obviously you earn money. Yes But do know when I get my plan with the concerts for the next couple of months.

30:36 have an agreement With my agency. don't tell me how much are because i think that we Have sometimes payments for concerts That may be For example okay Concerts. that is required when you invite me to play concerts. You pay makes amount of money But sometimes there is an invitation from for example a very small festival the chamber music Festival.

30:58 they don't have so much money, but it's a beautiful festival and your friends are there And do want to make music with them? Sometimes very rare cases I play for a little bit less Mm-hmm, but I Don't want to see this. I don't want know where I make how much money because know that when I see the numbers, I start to prepare more for a concert where i get money and this is wrong.

31:23 And you also don't have any idea what streaming revenue or CD? When I look into papers... What made your more money? was it the streaming or collaboration with label of real life playing so-to speak? It depends. I would say...I don't know, but roughly did you have a year where it was kind of like fifty-fifty?

31:56 Or is it rather like sixty percent real forty percent label or the seventy third to just get a feeling for how relevant they are? This is with this percentage and it's a little bit more than this year. It depends on that, but to this percent it's super complicated when you get the number... Interesting because I think in other markets if we compare them with other industries not the classical industry I mean, probably like the most money is made with streaming today.

32:32 And then maybe of course touring and so on. but touring comes also high cost infrastructure right? All the team that's necessary...I have a feeling this kind of label space in terms what is the monetary potential, how do deal structures look like? Does it really influence your real world? playing so you're concert-playing and so on.

32:54 And so forth... How much relevance does that have in earning potential next year's GIFT? So I think its very interesting to put light into this but also What i wanted to ask because as you said for example For you Its okay to play with friends here. Adapt also your agency adapts. Your pricing position towards the infrastructure of that like what is it?

33:18 Is it like far off you're usual fee That you get? or is there still like, well What does? kind of a balance? where things are that's more an exception than rule and I wish that It stays that way because it became Also common practice to try to dump the fees for artists And this is not good. You know we presenting a very high-quality content and something that is very special, we are training our whole life for it.

33:45 I see here in there like growing fashion where people try to pay less which isn't good enough to accept all of this. I would argue maybe the thing also with artists should be not accepting play for little fees because they will harm other artists as well. Yeah, totally. Is there a lot of discussion among artists about these financial things?

34:13 When you are good friends with somebody then yes But usually don't like openly talk about that because it's also something I Don't know if even allowed to tell how much but i can say That support my family and pay bills. I'm happy that i can do it because this is what i love to do and they're very grateful for that.

34:38 And, i work and do everything in my possibilities... ...to keep it that way and grow the musician so as a businesswoman.. ..and find new ways of doing things. It also depends on your instrument you choose right? Because if we think from an organiser perspective let's take a typical hall Five hundred people can be performed by any instrument.

35:07 Solo pianist is obviously nicer because you only have to pay one artist, right? Instead of like chamber music already a little bigger audience and so it gets less per person So-to speak. It depends Yes But this also something that you realize in terms of solo pianists earn the most or have the most earning potential?

35:28 I don't know. I will be cheaper than a whole orchestra. But, but...I don't know the exact numbers because i'm not a concert promoter. I usually get booked from a concert promotor and then play a concert And one day when they are getting some money for their concerts Usually I don't exactly know how much.

35:47 Maybe two years before now I didn't want to know. And as an artist if you wanna get paid more You can scale your business. There are many different ways you can do it, and there're many things that you need to make your decisions. You have to decide what kind of attention or the way I want to go? What aligns with my moral principles... ...and how I see myself as an artist in order for me to share this world with others like artists.

36:22 And yes! There's a lot more than just decision making. The normal path is teaching on the side. That's what a lot of artists do, right? Of course for example you can teach You can do master classes or online masterclasses. It's like in every business. Scaling means that...you don't play more concerts For money but you pay the same concert for more money which means that a concert promoter he will pay you more when you attract people to his festival, so it's simple.

36:55 So think about how can I get more attention and what kind of attention? In some ways... Again i'm not recommending anything but just comment on the things that I see. You'll be able to gain more attention if for example you start talking politics or you talk about, the sensitive topics like social things that people are very emotional.

37:15 And when you start creating content and talking about those things... ...you might get invitations to this or that talk show. You attract a bigger cake totally! You attract attention. Attention is an occurrence in our being-a-performer world.. ..and we have to decide if it's where do want go? Is there something from your heart?

37:37 because I think also different personalities out there, people are different artists. And sometimes you see an artist talking about a topic and feel that this is something the artist really passionate about. This person's very interested in it. Maybe not directly has to do with the instrument, but indirectly or maybe it is a topic that's very important for this person.

38:06 All of these persons are from country where something was going on and they're talking about those topics. It gets attention. also you feel like someone really passionate about them And sometimes as an artist who stands in front of decision will I say plot in the TV show or not. And there are some people out there as well who I see, they just say things to get their attention... ...I think you can feel that with your seven cents.

38:42 what is going on actually? so There decisions yet? That you have to make for yourself. does it align with my moral principles? and this Is that something i want to share. because As soon as we start talking about for example politics and in our days, politics is everywhere. In sports an art every do you want to go enter this path?

39:03 And it's a question of your personality. Do I actually enjoy that? because as soon As you start doing This You will get attention but also negative attention Also hate. can you deal with That? do you have enough energy For them? Because here must be prime energy at your instrument. This is the most important thing, this why we even do these and when you have too much fun in to much energy involved here it's a danger that practice less than you had last energy motivation and less, because we all have twenty-four hours in the limited energy.

39:38 Your energy is finite. so you need to decide what's most important during my day? What are my hard skills or soft skill? The hardest thing always is art – music! You must keep a balance that this does not disturb it. And sometimes I'm not judging anybody. It really is everyone's artist decision. You can say yes to things, you can't say no thing.

40:06 Everyone personal decision. but I think it's very important for me... ...I learned that is very important too. keep this balance and sometimes its' important to say NO to things. understand what kind of attention do I want. For example, when I won the Echo Prize with Sony Classicals... ...I've got a lot of attention that I appreciated very much.

40:24 I got many invitations from different orchestras and conductors who invited me. I was internationally more recognized so they gave me an invitation to perform. This is my intention because it made me happy about this attention. but also other things came around like for instance they called me from Playboy magazine Really?

40:46 I was twenty-two years old, young hot woman back then. They called me and said no because this is not the kind of attention that i wanted. And I would get a lot of attention Because Back Then Playbook Magazine Was A Big Thing. I don't know what it's about now Not So Much Interest But That Was My Decision That I Said No These Are The Decisions You Need To Make On Your Way to understand also how you are seen by society, there is a study that I saw.

41:23 This was something you can Google and when i saw this it kind of clicked with me. they found out your competence will be perceived differently. so if you're young woman Usually your competence will be seen lower than it is actually. And when you are a young man and acting very ambitious, energetic or hardworking people tend to rate your actual competence higher then it is.

41:54 It changes with age but as the young woman... ...it's just like that way of life. When I was a young woman i had to deal with these questions alot because Imagine I just released an album, and won it for a classic. I'm supported by Alfred Brandl. I am proving my competence in many ways. And still you have interview with the Piano Niche magazine The center of people who are interested in piano music like the piano words and they are talking to you about your dress.

42:32 And why do you wear this dress? Do you wear high heels on stage, or make-up? Does that help you? Are you successful because you're pretty? Is it something you do in purpose?". You know... That was a little bit frustrating for me as I had the impression of having to fight against that and prove my competence like ten times!

42:56 Let's jump into there just one second. Let's now claim that Personal branding. That is what it is, right? Is authentic? okay for just a second? some Some people make it up and kind of like dilute their character and pretend to be someone. but I was gonna say But i think especially since also know you're bringing up the point with are wearing this.

43:23 I think the classical music market can open up a little bit there and just get more open, because they have so much potential in connecting with brands doing cool collaborations. You see it everywhere on the industry. Sports people collaborate with fashion brands or coffee machines collaborate with car brands... They do that for strategic reasons is to win new audiences To reach people in another audience and connect them to their brand.

43:53 I think you have so great artists that can connect with fashion, of course we must be the person for it. some people are not a person but there's So much potential And when someone who does well he gets very negative feedback. You get negative feedback on everything. today The internet became such crazy violent place where human being, and I like blueberries.

44:21 And you will get hate for that.". You must deal with hate when you are talking. this is the atmosphere right now on the internet... But also mean- That's part of it! ...but i mean really conservative classical music. stakeholders have a feeling they're maybe not willing to open up that much? behind our world.

44:47 I think there is nothing bad about having a good collaboration with the brand, right? I had to collaboration with Audi. i was driving their car for couple of years. that was cool. okay nice and Audi concerts. they're not doing things like this anymore unfortunately but it's fun! They also gave you your car then for period time.

45:05 yes that's fine. driving around here Munich. yeah I completely agree with you, and this is the part of it. You know sometimes when we say yeah It's difficult to become a concert pianist there are not so many spots for concert piano? audience for that and when people like it or need what you made they pay your money, they are happy.

45:48 You're happy. That's a business And we have the same rules. When an artist has constant question What can I do? What can I do? well? What am I, weaknesses maybe. Where do i want to go as an artist? and all these things that you say also may be collaborations with brands. why not right in active social media?

46:12 this is the time we live in. i'm no judging i'm not saying it's good or bad but there are other possibilities. said we have yeah You adapted really well. I didn't even know, but then once also I prepared and interacted more with your brand. You're really active! There's not many others who come to my mind that have over a hundred thousand subscriptions on YouTube, right?

46:36 I already only checked your Instagram and then we had the call. And you said you just received that tombstone from YouTube. So many! You're also great role model for adaptation because obviously once you grow up all of these technological things were not there yet... It actually started when You know, we were talking about Sony Classical.

46:59 And just to make it clear the people who work at Sony Classica that they're all doing a great job They are amazing. I really have good connections with them and when i went away in two thousand twenty one was my last release. since then im so called independent artist part of the system anymore. I wanted to feel how is it if i'm doing things on my own, could react really to what I'm doing when i have no PR agency, label social media agency whatever.

47:43 So do everything by yourself except you work with an agency? I am a concert agent. Yes, I am at Concerts de Kritercher for Wagner. she's my general manager and they are doing my concert stuff. but all of that. But everything else is done by myself on the YouTube channel To just show my live performances.

48:03 I wanted to show the world, hey this is what i can do and Of course also a bit egoist involved. of course you want to show What? You Can Do your practice all day in. The biggest part of the work happens behind This stage. nobody see the Work. Nobody See the hours that we're sitting there And learning and are Frustrating because it does not work out.

48:21 then you play ten times Then you get tired and All those Hours of Work Nobody Sees. of Course you Want That the result of Your performance of your Work is seen by the people, of course you want to. And then I started making these videos for YouTube and Sony classical. Michael Bruggemann actually allowed me do this.

48:40 You know, this is a gray zone. As an exclusive artist of Sony classical you are actually not really allowed to do that. but he said it's okay It's the grey zone. and then they were appreciating my YouTube channel because it was growing so well. And there we're uploading videos sharing on my channel using my following.

49:00 Yeah, now since then I'm doing also more active my YouTube channel. I have like a new series. Yes, all the blocks. that's so much fun to do it. and ii Have fun with sharing this journey by yourself And you cut it? By yourself after I had a cameraman traveling With me. but I'm Also thinking about to Do an episode where I filmed Like everything But myself are also was checking.

49:21 You know there GoPro cameras that you can put on your board or something. I'm trying to figure out something, but it's tricky because the concert promoter needs to agree and maybe its not nice for people who have real experience. invite the video teams. There is so much to do, you know? You have to have agreements from everybody involved and it's really a lot of work... ...to produce your own video recording for concerts but the result was worth it!

49:56 Yeah I have this YouTube channel now.. ..I never paid ascent in advertising with everything viral content. Wow, a hundred thousand subs. Very nice entrepreneurial example of how to also build something and make you independent. essentially that's what it is right? So making an independent from third-party brands so to speak.

50:18 yeah. And now there was very interesting experience for me because I started really have the feeling when i post this or if i post nothing then What happens if i disappear in couple months? like experiment for this time of my life, because I have two children and i have too small children. And obviously a lot of my energy went into my family Because you know child requires a lot Of attention to sleep.

50:46 so much So off course. My not. my number one priority was Not career it was my family and career also love my piano playing discussed it with my family a lot that I will continue playing, I'll continue practicing and must be organized the way to go at the piano every day. Which is you need really functioning support system for children.

51:15 but when i had this time so first child came shortly before corona So I spent a lot of time at home with my child during Corona, we were not working anyway. so much. It was good timing! Actually i'm very grateful that this time where our whole planet is standing on its head... ...I was lucky. it fell into the moment in life when I had children because they welcomed me and I didn't have many problems like other artists did who just started their career.

51:54 And I'm very happy that i experienced many years of, you know staying in the market and proving my competence playing with best orchestras out there making albums living nightlife having parties meeting friends all of them. then came corona time where I feel like my energy is coming back a hundred percent again.

52:23 My children are little bit bigger now, so i'm starting to travel alone again because they're not that little anymore. They don't need me. may ask your partner as awesome musician or he's another musician? But here in the creative world as well making movies okay He used to work for television also? He knows everything with cameras cutting and collaborating but you can be like there rather stay at home.

52:47 He is flexible, yeah. We had huge discussions about that because it's a question of organization. totally and imagine you have let say I mean thats the cool thing. as an artist or entrepreneur you can design your life a little bit, right? You have flexibility. And of course as an artist who is traveling a lot and you need to have like an ecosystem whether it's parents or partners one that integrates into them.

53:18 This also part being an entrepreneur. I see us artists as entrepreneurs because basically i don't see any difference in what business people do. I don't see any, maybe you should educate me. We don't have these peak moments where we are in front of one thousand people that absolutely loved In the second.

53:39 what? Okay but You would say this as a product. yeah i Don't like This word Maybe in your language. What it is if you sell? i don't know. If you design nice glasses Of course there Is somebody who's passionate about this glass and Who was fully into The art. Then you have to sell the glass. That makes a profession of an artist so unique, I think when we were just singing in the choir back then at the boarding school.

54:10 these moments are on concert tours and this moment where you immerse yourself into music is really...I can understand now why people don't care about money because Amazing. I agree, absolutely agree with you it's this fulfillment You cannot describe right? i believe that After corona something changed in the world like the mood change.

54:35 i don't know. maybe It has something to do That we have a screen time Like double or three times more than before. Something changed and i think This is something so healthy for us To go into classical music concert Where you put away your phone you sit there You experience the music, you hear and see.

54:54 And feel it together with others. I enjoy this so much if i play or in the audience. It's such a joy! You can feel these same emotions together With other people. They know what they are feeling. We're all together In this... I don't know how to describe that. I'm close to them through their music. This is something special.

55:18 I really love that, and it gives me fulfillment. This is so healthy after a concert! I feel reborn... And nothing of this mobile phone distraction or dopamine is so superficial compared to what happens in the classical concerts. It's such an honest way to make music. we have no playback, no light show nor anything but just the instrument.

55:45 you and your soul connected with people And this is so important for humanity and so worthful. How can you not care about the part of it? Because, to keep on running... It needs to keep existing! What a way to end this. This is good and I think there's going connect the dots. why you started right? That was my first question.

56:11 Why did she choose? what motivated you do that beautiful profession? And that's what we all love about the market, and that's where we also Do this podcast topic wise To bring it little bit more light on the economics side of. make it sustainable to make it grow into. let more people experience The pure effect of classical music.

56:29 okay Thanks so much for being gone. Thank You For Having me here.