Stop trying to make "Tikkun Olam" happen - with Eli Lake

0:00 It seems like every time you open your podcast or your social media, somebody is talking about Israel and Jewish world, and a lot of it is not really worth trusting. Our Arc Plus members are what let us have these conversations honestly, without pulling punches or censoring any of our terrible jokes. Join Arc Plus at arcmedia.org.

0:17 [Instrumental music plays] You are listening to an Arc Media podcast. I, I would imagine that JD Vance probably cringes, you know, when he hears his friend Tucker Carlson talking about all this crazy stuff, but he felt the need when he went on Joe Rogan about a month and a half ago to, like, pretend that he was up at night doing his own investigation- Right...

0:41 of, like, Area 51- Oh, my God... and who killed Charlie Kirk. Yeah. And that he would come back on the show when he found evidence and, like, I'm like, "Dude, I mean, like, you're a vice president now." Yeah. So I don't know what to believe. Maybe it's true. He's in the Naval Observatory at 2:00 in the morning- Yeah... and Usher is like, "Get to bed, JD." [laughs] And he's like, "No, just, I've gotta go.

1:02 I'm on Reddit right now. I'm having..." Like, maybe that's true, or maybe he's saying it 'cause he thinks that's the future- Right... like, you know, voters- Yeah... of the Republican Party. That's what I wonder. And he wants to pretend and say, "Hey, I'm one of you." [upbeat music plays] Hi, welcome to Chosen People Problems, where a secular, sinful Israeli speaks to her holy, religious friend. Yael here with Chaya.

1:27 Um, regular day, absolutely normal day, nothing happening. Yeah. Right? Such a- If you're listening to this... quiet day. Yeah, quiet. If you're listening to this tomorrow, even a more normal day probably. [laughs] But, uh- Oh, my God... big day, election day in Israel, very exciting. I, I, I kinda love election day. I mean- Do you?... it's stressful.

1:44 Yeah, I wish I was there, um, in Israel, and everybody's, my, everybody that I know is yelling at me for not being there. Um- I can imagine that you are on your phone. Like, your screen time for a normal day is probably high. I can't even imagine. Mm-hmm. Is it, like, 23 hours for election day? No, I do my... I, I turn my VPN on and just watch the news from Israel- Oh, okay...

2:06 um- Okay... the whole time. Right. But, uh, but it's exciting. I've always been, like, politically active, even when I was, like, a, a young, you know- Yeah, me too... preteen, uh, handing out stickers and stuff. But I have this weird thing. I don't know if you do this. I do this with sports, and I do this with elections. Mm-hmm.

2:23 I sometimes feel that if I'm watching and engaged, that it will turn out to be the wrong outcome for me. Yeah, yeah. I get that. And that if I ignore it and I don't... So, like, when the Patriots are playing, who are my absolute favorite team, I can't... Like, sometimes I can't watch. I have to, like, walk out of the room- Mm... and pretend that it's not happening.

2:43 I have to, like, go write something or go watch a movie, and then I will come back in and be like, "Okay, thank God they won." Like, I feel like I'm bad luck when I'm invested in it. I get that. I get that. And I sometimes do that with elections, too, and I, I think my kids make so much fun of me 'cause they think it's insane. Yeah. But I don't know. They're like, "What?

3:01 You think you control the outcome because you're watching?" It's like- Yeah... oh, Tom Brady's like, "Chaya is watching. I'm gonna be very nervous now and drop the ball." Yeah, yeah. [laughs] "How am I gonna perform?" [laughs] Like, "How am I gonna perform?" So I don't know. Well, I was thinking about that because I was, uh, I was, I've been on a lot of planes recently, and then some of you don't know this about me, but I'm actually, I'm, I'm afraid of flying- Oh...

3:20 even though I fly- That's an understatement... all the time. Well, you've never flown with me. Yeah. Um- Uh, you literally canceled a flight that- Yes, because-... because there was a hurricane 400 miles away. No, the weather- Not even nearby. I didn't cancel a flight. I pos- postponed the flight. [laughs] So I s- I, I arrived, but later, and it was a teeny-tiny plane, and I don't like- I know... teeny-tiny planes. I know.

3:44 That's true. And I don't like flying in bad weather. But- It's true... I am, I don't like to fly. Uh, and I was thinking about it because there's all these, like, forums and stuff [laughs] that I read about this, and, and somebody, a pilot, said, like, "A good thing to remind yourself is this has nothing to do with you."

3:58 Right. [laughs] So when you're doing your whole, like, you know- I know... OCD things- I know... and this, if I'm wearing the right shirt, and like- I know... oh my God, it's bumpy now, what uh- I know. And like, actually, it doesn't matter if you're on this flight or if you're not on this flight. [laughs] Right. The outcome- Oh, my God... will probably be the same.

4:13 That is so true and so true about watching elections and sports- Yeah... games, too. That's actually very true. Yeah, yeah. There are other people who this- Yeah... it has something to do with them, who are flying the plane. Well, I hope that whatever the outcomes are of the elections here in I- I- not here, in Israel- [laughs]...

4:28 and then here in America next week- Wow, dual loyalty, Chaya... I know. I hope, I just hope that everybody could find themselves being able to take a deep breath and regardless of if it turns out the way you were hoping or not, that we all understand that we're one. We have to be united, and we have to get along, and we have to learn how to work with each other- Yeah... in whatever the outcome is. That's my plea. I'll say it plainly.

4:53 I am, I am very much hoping for a brand new day in Israel and a new government- Yeah... and new people. Um, or maybe some old people, too, but, uh, definitely, you know- Yeah... uh, people who can give us some, some hope and a fresh start. Yeah. Um, and we'll, you know, we'll see what happens. But, um, yeah, I, I'll definitely be, be glued to the news. Yeah.

5:12 And we will be back with, uh, more banter. But if you need a break, let's say you're like, "Ugh, I don't like..." You're like, your Tom Brady example, like, "I can't think about election right now. All I wanna do is listen to Eli Lake talk about George Bush- Mm-hmm... and other things." We've got you. We've got you. Yeah. We've got you. [laughs] I know you woke up this morning, and you're like, "Let's see.

5:31 There's the election today, but also I wonder what the deal is with, like, the Bush dynasty." Yeah. Um, but we talk about other things, too. That's great. No, it's great. Um, so hope you enjoy this episode with Eli, coming at you right after this quick break. [whooshing sound] Here's a Chosen People problem we can actually solve. Finally, because we're not doing antisemitism today.

5:51 No, I'm over it. Today we're doing money, and specifically how you should be spending yours. How you should be spending your money on us. Join Arc Plus. You'll get exclusive content and ad-free listening across the Arc network. And also, your support allows us to say what we actually think, even when we probably shouldn't.

6:07 When you join Arc Plus, you get to hear us behind the paywall, completely unleashed and ourselves. Yeah, this is us on our best behavior right now. And by the way, not just us, you'll get exclusive content from Call Me Back, For Heaven's Sake, and Arc News Daily. Ooh, wait till you hear what Deborah Pardes is like after dark.

6:24 If this show has ever made you laugh, taught you something, or made you yell at your phone, become an Arc Plus member today. You keep independent Jewish media going, and we get to keep doing whatever this is. Join Arc Plus. It's good for the Jews. Is it? I don't know, but it's definitely good for us. [whoosh] I'm Yael, here with Chaya. Our buddy, our good, good friend, Eli Lake, is with us.

6:48 Free Press columnist, contributing editor of Commentary magazine, and host of the excellent Breaking History podcast- Excellent... which can, should come out more often. I know it takes you, like, three months to research every episode- I know... but can we get more? Well, we're doing a special limited series on the Bush dynasty- Ooh. Ooh... and it'll be out next month.

7:05 So it's- So exciting... and I've been listening to some of the, um, [smacks lips] rough cuts, and I, I, I think it's very good. I wanna say one thing. Okay. The air conditioning episode is- Oh, thank you... the best episode ever, and the thing about it is that you will sound so smart if you listen to that episode 'cause you will then quote it nonstop when you're talking to friends and stuff about the history of air conditioning.

7:26 And I, I cannot tell you how much I love that episode. I mean, all of them are excellent. Thank you. But that one, I don't know, has a special place in my heart. That, that one- It's-... uh, is, the credit mainly is with my, um, phenomenal producer, Poppy Damon. She did all the legwork on it, and because of, uh, technical issues, I had to get a new laptop.

7:43 I started the interviews, but she kinda finished them, and, and- Really?... I was also, I, at the time, I was, like, suffering from a col- from a flu. And one of my favorites was a two-parter, which was, like, right before that, which was called The Making of Modern Iran. Oh, that was great. Yeah. Where we tried to do, like, from their constitutional revolution to their Islamic revolution, which I thought was... I, I still think, if you wanna go back and listen to a great- Excellent...

8:03 kinda getting s- It's, like, three hou- If you ever, like, get a long ride, like, put, put on both episodes back to back, and you will, you will know far more than almost everybody else talking about Iran- Mm. [laughs]... 'cause it actually gets into, like, real Iranian history as opposed to- Which is most people. That's so true. Yeah. Well, I just, like, we start, we don't even really even talk about the '79 revolution.

8:20 Like, we, we, we are, like, you know, we talk about Obama and the Iran deal, and, like, it's just not... You know what I mean? Like, this is, I, what I try to do- We're mad at Obama right now... is bring an Iranian perspective to it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're mad at him. Yeah. No, it's really good. He's not coming on this show. [laughs] Clearly.

8:35 Um, what was the most, what was the most, like, viral episode you had? Like, what topic? It typ- I, okay, so in terms of sheer numbers, our debut on Andrew Jackson and populism, I just think 'cause it was on the feed longest. Mm. Right. But, um, [smacks lips] the two that really stand out that people love that I feel like kinda went viral in a different way, and, like, it just, I ke- uh, people bring it up is, um, the one about how Jews write your favorite Christmas songs.

9:01 Yeah. Mm. T- W- Which was a Ask a Jew episode, uh, a couple years ago on, on Jewish stuff. Yeah, that's right. You guys did Ask a Jew. Like, you, yes. I love that topic. And then we did one on, um, sort of, uh, it was, it was, it was a look at, like, Edward Said and his role- Oh, yeah... and his book- Mm-hmm... on Orientalism and how it has shaped the Columbia protests. It was great.

9:19 I like the one on, wait, on, on, the one on bullshit, was that, um, reeducation? That was also, yeah. We were sort of, like, piloting the show on the Honestly feed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that actually probably is our most, like, in terms, 'cause Honestly has a bigger kinda reach, but- It's great... yeah, lots of people, that was a good one.

9:33 The bullshit one was right before Donald Trump was- Do you still get paid if somebody streams that right now? [laughs] 'Cause if not, we won't send it there. Yeah, I think so. I, I, yeah, no, I mean, it's, uh, the, actually, if you go to the Breaking History feed, all of the old ones that we did for Honestly are in the archives there. Oh, that's good. Yeah.

9:49 The bullshit one, I remember listening to it and then l- immediately listening to it again. Yeah. Oh, thank you. So we'll link, we'll link to all those in our show notes. Yeah. Eli, are you still enjoying podcasting and writing, and how are you feeling, like, on a personal level about what you're doing professionally?

10:04 Well, this project that we're, that we're about to come out, it w- is different because it's, like, six episodes- Oh... that tells the story of the Bush dynasty. How far back? And in some ways, also the story of, like, the WASPs of America. Oh, I love that. Mm. And contrasting that with, like, well, what it...

10:22 'Cause, you know, if you think about it, 2016, we're, we're coming on the 10-year anniversary of the Trump epic. Mm. Trump era. [laughs] And what happened in 2016 that was so significant, not just that he won the general election, he defeated the last scion, really, of, of the Bush dynasty in Jeb Bush in South Carolina in the Republican primaries that year.

10:40 And so it was sort of the end of, of, of this really century run almost for the Bushes. And to me, it was just a very impressive, it's, it's, it's, you know, there are, there are other political dynasties in American history. Um, you know, the Kennedys obviously come to mind. Right. But I feel that the Bushes are kinda more impressive.

10:57 And there's a lot of things, you, we get into a lot of stuff because I think the Bushes kind of intersect with so many things that are very important in explaining both the modern Republican Party, but also just sort of American politics. Mm-hmm. But for me, it's, it's, it's, what makes it, the, their story in some ways very remarkable is that the pattern for most political dynasties is that you kinda have, you know, the, the g- the, the, the generation, the, the one guy in the generation who kinda builds the fortune.

11:22 Then you have, like, if you're lucky, the next generation, like, run, they run for office, and then there's a decline because you're, you're, you know, the, the grandkids- Yeah... and the great-grandkids are used to the good life, and it's almost, it's like the natural cycle of things. What, what, the, what's, what's fascinating and kind of, you know, very admirable about the Bushes is that their first kind of, uh, breakout politician is Prescott Bush, the father- Mm-hmm... of George H.W. Bush.

11:46 That's a great name, Prescott. He's born into enormous wealth and privilege. So they'd already had generational wealth- Mm... by the time they start their generational, their political run, George H.W. born into privilege. And yet they are, you know, they, uh, you know, the, Prescott and George H.W. serve really admirably in World War I and World War II.

12:05 Very different than the kind of character we have at the top of the Oval Office, and by the way, in our general, in our politics today. Not just- Mm... it's not just Trump. I mean, I just think that- Yeah... we had a, it was a different world. It was more civil politics. It was kind of less tribal, you could argue. Um- It's just a different world. Yeah. Yeah.

12:22 We have a, we have um, a word in Hebrew, I don't know what the translation would be in English, called [foreign language] which means like- Royal, it's like, it's almost royalty, but- No, but it, it's meant more of like a, like national or- Oh, oh, right... you know, somebody who's like- Right... very representative of- Yeah... like the country, and, and we don't, I don't know that we have any politicians [laughs] right like, right now like that. Yeah.

12:43 Well, that was the, that was the original Ashkenazi Zionists. Mm-hmm. They were all labor socialists. Right. But- Yeah. No, but in- And, you know-... Israel we have some of them, but like in American politics, I can't think of- Well, the thing-... like someone who's, who's very like- Yeah... tri- tries at least to appeal to everyone.

12:58 Well, is it, this, what it really gets into is the idea of the Eastern Establishment, which is that we used to have a homogenous Eastern Establishment that was largely like New York, Wall Street, you know, the Ivy League- Mm-hmm... and, uh, like the, the elite prep schools, the foundations, like the Council on Foreign Relations.

13:14 These were institutions that were built by the WASPs, and that was a, that was a, th- that, they, there was a kind of exclusion. You know, there was an elite that was pretty homogenous. Mm-hmm. And then it, it's much more diverse now, obviously, and all of those institutions are more diverse. And it's not to say that they had total power, but it was like, you know, you, you have to think about this in the sense of, you know, we're a democracy. There's a lot of advantages just to being a, a democratic country.

13:38 But one of the things that you, that our Founding Fathers really worried about, and, you know, frankly going back to the Roman Republic and the Greeks, how do you make sure that you have a leadership class that keeps producing like excellent leaders? And that's not- Mm... a small thing. Mm-hmm. And you do- Right... that by instilling values and having, you know, uh, rigorous institutions that kind of prepare the young leaders of the future, so to speak.

14:03 Now they're preparing them to join like the Islamic Jihad. [laughs] Well, that's, sometimes it feels that way, doesn't it? Right. Yeah. But, but the thing is that the, the, it's a blessing and a curse. Because on the one hand, you know, you, you did have these, the, these kind of tightened values. You, you were able to produce generations of, of, of great leaders, and also like what they were, what Evan Thomas called the wise men, people who advise presidents. Mm.

14:25 On the other hand, until you really started seeing, and now, this is in the middle of the century, really when you started seeing, you know, the Ivy League and the prep schools themselves and so forth beginning to kind of, uh, open the doors for Jews and Catholics and Blacks and other minorities, and, and eventually women, um, you know, you had this problem in that like, you know, you, you, you kind of, you, the inevitable problem is that you, you kind of had a stale, stagnant gene pool of sorts, which is that you, you know, you would, media- mediocrity was kind of given great responsibility simply by dint of their birth, and they didn't- Mm...

15:03 necessarily earn it. And there's always that kind of tension. Um, and what's interesting is that like, you know, the, you, there, there are, there's a famous sociologist named E. Digby Baltzell, who actually coined the term WASP, and he believed that the WASPs like peaked maybe in the 19-teens or the 1920s, and they kind of peter out by the '60s.

15:23 What's interesting about the Bush dynasty is that you really don't see the Bush dynasty kind of taking, uh, really making its mark until Prescott Bush, which is the mid-'50s, and then really it's George H.W. Bush. Mm. And it's, so it's- Mm... the r- the, the, the, the epic of the Bushes really starts after the class that they represent and they come from has kind of had their day.

15:45 And then by that point, you know, you have, you know, like, this is like the what some people say the golden age for the Jews- Right... but it's also Catholics and like everybody. You know, the institutions kind of open up, some of it because of civil rights legislation. There's the whole issue of affirmative action. But a lot of it is just, you know, the, and the institutions benefited.

16:03 And the, you could argue that our leadership class benefited, um, until, and is, they, but, but now, I don't know. You look at the, you look at these- Yeah... the, the institutions that are supposed to mold our future leaders, and not onl- it's not that, it's not so much that they're rudderless, it's just that they're kind of like there's an alien ideology. Like, you know.

16:20 Yeah. And you just, you still- And they're still funneling people into government- Yeah... in powerful positions. It's not like that they're funneling people- Well, that is, that is true... into like- But, right... just nonprofits or teaching positions. But H.W. was kind of a badass, right? Amazing. W- I mean, overall. Uh, didn't he go skydiving on his 90th birthday? He did, I remember that. Yeah, skydiving on his 90th birthday.

16:38 I mean, he, he volunteered as a high school senior on his 18th birthday to fight in World War II. Wow. Wow. And he didn't volunteer for some cushy assignment. Right. Uh, he volunteered to be a Navy, naval aviator in the Pacific. Uh, being a naval aviator in 1942 is really perilous. A lot of them would die- Yeah... just in training.

16:58 It's hard to imagine, because Bush, that's the thing is like he had an option- Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm... to just go to Yale. Yeah. And then- Right, and get out of it... have a very nice life. He would get a- Yeah... job at a Wall Street brokerage house and make a gazillion dollars and- Yeah... enjoy Kennebunkport in the summers and, you know what I mean? Like, he, he- Right. Right. He didn't have to... Florida in the winter.

17:18 Whatever he wanted. Yeah. Yeah. He could've done that, and instead he served in the Pacific and, you know, faced, kind of looked death right in the face as his plane was shot down, dramatically rescued. I'm, I'm afraid to like fly to Cleveland. The rest of his crewmates were quite possibly captured and then eaten by a cannibal Japanese general. I mean, it's like an- [laughs]...

17:38 it's like an extraordinary, by the time he's like- 20 years old, and he's out of... You know, we win World War II, and he, then he, then he attends Yale. Yeah. Don't you think, no, don't you think... I mean, I'm thinking about George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, and I, I was, like, a child of the '90s, '80s and '90s. Yeah. And we basically were raised to think that these were idiots. Like, I, I feel like the- No...

18:00 the media gave us this- Yeah, that's what Jay Leno told me... that, that... No, seriously, like, I was raised to believe that these people were stupid idiots, didn't know anything, didn't care about us- No... didn't care about the country. And I, I look back now, obviously I know that that's not true today, but I, I don't know how you have a functional democracy or anyth- or even a culture that is, like, healthy when everything is just mocking, laughing.

18:25 And I li- there's nothing I like better than mocking and laughing at people. [laughs] But if you think about, like, how we were raised to think about the Bushes in the '90s, and then in the 2000s after, I mean, think about how, what we d- what the media did to George W. Bush. I mean, made him into- Yeah... a bumbling idiot fool who couldn't r- speak, who didn't know anything. Couldn't find the door. Who couldn't fi-... Yeah. I mean, they made him into such a bumbling idiot.

18:48 And now y- if you read of way, the way they talk about him now, all of a sudden it's a whole different story, right? Now they love him. He's a painter and an artist, and he's so warm, and he gave Michelle Obama candy. He's friends with Michelle Obama. Yeah. Yeah. He gave her candy, and he's so cute, and blah, blah. And it's like, you can't undo what you did for 20 years- Mm...

19:08 telling people like me, a young, a young impressionable person who was very interested in politics, that these were the stupidest people on planet Earth. And it's like, I, I don't know what to say about what the media ro- what the media's role was in shaping the narrative around people like the Bushes and other politicians, you know? It's, it's- That's a to- That's...

19:28 Well, first of all, it's just not... With George W. Bush, um, some of it is because George W. Bush, uh, w- was, cultivated it in his, um, kind of, when he ran, especially in, in 2000, as the kind of, uh, guy you could have a beer with. Right. Yeah. And he didn't put on airs, even though he comes from- Yeah...

19:48 um, you know, uh, he comes from, you know, an a p- uh, the patrician class, if you will, of America. He, he, you know, he, he was raised in Midland, Texas. He had a ranch in Crawford, Texas. He- Right... um, you know, he, he was very much, uh, he, hi- his personality was very Texas, and that is then in, kind of interpreted by a lot of the, you know, the East Coast- Mm...

20:11 elite media as dumb, which is, you know, frankly, uh, wrong. Uh, but- And kinda racist... the reality with, with W is that he read a book a week, and, uh, was a very quick study. Uh, but he would say things, like he, he gives an address at Yale at one point and he says, "This is, uh, hope to all, for all, for all you C students out there. Look how far you can go." That kind.

20:35 So he would kind of- Yeah... play into it- Right... to his advantage, um, which is, uh, you know, which is a, a typical thing that, like, Southern politicians are very good at, which is, like, kind of like slow, slow walking you. Mm. Like they would kinda, like, i- w- it's a way to disarm people, especially your opponents, into thinking that you were dumb and in fact you were, you were not.

20:54 And by no means was he dumb, and he, and his political instincts were, were, were excellent. Yeah. Yeah. I remember hearing, um, from somebody who worked for him, who I won't mention by name 'cause it wasn't really public, but he said there, there were two misconceptions about, about Bush. One, that he's really dumb, and the second is that he's really nice. Oh. Really? Well, he can, he, but W- Really?... w- had a, had a, has a, has, uh, is a bit of a needler. He's a teaser. Oh.

21:21 But he's the kind of guy who would give everybody nicknames and stuff- Right... like that. Um, you know, but also, like, you know, the other thing about him is very much of a man of faith. Right. Mm-hmm. So, you know, George H.W. Bush is- Now, now that I think of it- Yeah... I, I saw him at a Israeli, uh, event once, um, here in New York, and, ugh, I forgot who he was talking about.

21:42 But there, there was a speaker before him that was Israeli diplo- somebody very high up whose English wasn't great. Ah. And, um, and George Bush made a joke and he said, "You know, they say you can't speak English, but they say I couldn't speak English either." So. Oh, that's cute. [laughs] Oh, that's funny.

21:58 He's, like, totally leaning into it. Sorry to change subjects, but I wanna know- Yeah, sure... Eli, what do you think about Marco Rubio in the ve- Like, are you a- We're very pro Marco Rubio here on Chill City Problems. We li- mainly 'cause we think he's very attractive, but also I like him for other reasons too. No, we like him, and that's why we think he's attractive. Oh, okay. It's not the other way around.

22:15 Listen, um, Marco Rubio is, in my view, like, he's, he saved the Iran war. Yeah. If it wasn't for Marco Rubio, we would've been stuck with this terrible MOU from June that- Mm... J.D. Vance was, you know, playing up like it was, you know, I don't know, the second coming of- Yeah... I don't know. It's like, you know, the Oslo Accords or something.

22:34 Like, it was this huge diplomatic breakthrough when in fact it was a terrible deal that would've let Iran continue to have influence within Lebanon, and Marco Rubio behind the scenes kind of got the Israelis and the Lebanese elected government to make an agreement basically about will the Lebanese government follow through?

22:51 Probably not, but it was a way of kind of getting the Lebanese government very much on record, uh, to kind of confirm their position, which is that Hezbollah is a, you know, hostile militia. Uh, it doesn't represent, it is undermining the actual state, which it has been- Right... doing obviously for the last 25 years or more.

23:11 So Rubio in my view in, in terms of an influence on foreign policy for the most part pretty good. Um, that said, uh, he's- But do you find him attractive? [laughs] Kyla wants to know. Well, I, I, I'm a hetero, you know? What, what can I say? I- I mean, you look interested... I suppose so. He seems, he seems like a nice- Yes. [laughs] He seems attractive. I don't know. Um, but- Did you see an interview he did with his wife where- Yeah...

23:33 he, he talked about, like, going low carb and he was like, "I went low carb and I was, like, ready to bomb Paraguay." [laughs] That's funny. Wait. That's- But you were about to, you were about to say something that I want to hear, so- Well, here's the, here's, here's the bad news. Yeah. Say it... okay?

23:45 It's like he's being Well, a number of people in the media, a number of people in the kind of pro-Israel community, especially in the Republican Party, are kind of holding Rubio out as the counter within the party to Vance- Mm-hmm... in the context of the 2028- Mm... uh, Republican primaries. Rubio said he is not running- Mm... and that he supports Vance. Right.

24:06 At which point you don't really have an alternative to JD Vance. We have... No one's said, "I'm run..." I mean, I guess Ted Cruz is gonna end up running. Mm. But- Ted Cruz, where's he been? [laughs] Well, Ted Cru- Ted Cruz I think will run. Yeah. Ted Cruz wants so much to be president. Aw, poor Ted Cruz. Um, and, but, but that's...

24:23 What I'm, what I'm getting at here is that I think Rubio's been largely pretty great. But- He's not... if, if you think he's gonna save you, save the Republican Party from JD Vance, uh, he's gonna be an ally of JD Vance. Right. So that's- How bad is JD Vance? Well, it's hard to say. I- it's very bad that he, uh, has found himself in this position where he's defending Tucker Carlson. I know.

24:49 However, I just wanna put this in some perspective. Is a huge difference between, like, the Tucker Carlson even of 2024- Mm-hmm... and who he is today. Right. Hmm. And especially Tucker Carlson when he was at Fox News. I went on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News- Yeah... and I thunk- Yes... it's completely, I would put him in a different category. And that is like, well, you know, is it 'cause he's isolated in Maine?

25:12 He's always been this way, and it was, like, the producers or whatever that held him back. You can speculate all you want, but is he is now in the place where he's basically, he's now saying- He's a lunatic... "Hear me out." Yeah. Hitler, another look. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what, you know what I mean? He's now like- Well, he's kind of anti-American. [laughs] Anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti- Mm.

25:30 Like, really just- Mm-hmm... obsessively anti-Israel in a way. And, and like, I would say it's, like, stupid anti-Zionism, stupid antisemitism. Yeah. Not, um, a kind of, n- not- not a, a sophisticated critique. He deliberately will... He's especially, he's vicious to Ben Shapiro, who's been really heroic in this period, in my view, and he will deliberately take what Shapiro says completely out of context, not just out of context, but, like, really lie about what he's saying in order- Yeah...

25:59 to kind of create this straw man, and then raising, like, issues. Like, I... The other day he was talking about my mom these, and I'm like, "You have no idea- Stop... who Rambo is." I know. [laughs] Take the, let- Ugh... take the Rambo's name out in the rap. The Talmud. But it's just- Yeah... all these things. And, and, and also, what is he... I mean, how loyal a Republican is he?

26:16 He's, he says he, he would not vote for Mike Rogers with a gun to his head, which is a de facto endorsement of, uh, Abdul Wahid. He was intrigued by Graham Platter, Nazi tattoo, um- Ugh... you know, date raper. Yeah. Uh, you know, like, how's that helping, uh, the party? So it puts JD in this really difficult position. And I would say right now that, you know, the dumbest anti-Semite is obviously Candace Owens.

26:45 I mean, she really is- Oh... like- She is really- Really? I think that, I think that blonde chick, uh, is, is pretty high up there too. Uh- Anna Kaspersyn? Kaspersyn. Yeah. Yeah. I think she's pretty, she's pretty high up there. You know, you're right. You're right. That's, that's like- [laughs]... if you wanna talk about, like, you know, right, that's like LeBron versus- I'm not talking vile-...

27:01 Jordan of, like- Yes... antisemitism. I'm talking, like, dumb. Moronic antisemitism. Yeah. Totally. That's MVP. Yeah. Totally. [laughs] Exactly. That's, that's the debate in the, in, in, in, in the, in the Jewish barber shops. Like, I'll, I'll, I'll see some of her posts sometimes, and I'm like, "Is this, what is this?" Yeah. Like 19- Yeah...

27:16 you know, '70s Russia? But, but, but Candace in a way is worse because she has a bigger audience, and so- Mm. She is just so evil. Yeah, but, okay, so I saw this, I forget, I, I would love to credit him 'cause he was a rabbi. I, I saw a clip, but it was a really great point when he says, "What's more dangerous?" You know?

27:33 Uh, and he, he says, "These are two counterfeit $20 bills." Yeah. And one of them is, like, an obvious fake. Mm. That's Candace Owens, right? Right. So that's not as dangerous because it's like- That's true. Yeah... you can look at it and you're like, "This one is in- That's, that's how I feel... is in never never land." Like, you know- Right. He's gone full retard. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly.

27:50 And then, or somebody like a Mehdi Hasan or- Oh, yeah... I don't know- Yeah... the, uh, editorial j- leadership of NPR. Yeah. Yeah... or, like, the people who are, like, you know, whatever, like the, uh, the NY, New York Times, like, photo editors- Yeah... or you know what I'm saying? Like, those people, like, kind of look...

28:07 You know, at, at first look, it looks real. I 100% agree with you. So I'm like, you know, you know, I just... You have to accept there's always going to be, not just in America, all over the world, people are going to believe, uh, outlandish and lunatic conspiracy theories, and by the way, we don't even know if a lot of her audience believes it or they- Mm...

28:25 are enter- entertained by people spinning crazy yarns. Right. That is a phenomenon, but nobody is gonna, like, you would never confuse, like, Candace Owens' like in- investigation into- [laughs]... Brigitte Macron as, like, somehow moving the needle- Yeah... of what people actually believe- Yeah... about the world. She makes me laugh more than she makes me angry. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

28:46 Whereas I would say Tucker Carlson used to be in the, like, you know, looks like a $20 bill, but it's, it's a counterfeit, now he's much closer to the monopoly money because- Yeah... I mean, he is- Mm-hmm... just as insane, and- Yeah... he has done- Which is great for us... chemtrails. He's done, like, all these things that I'm like- Yeah. I love it... it's all- I love it when they go that way...

29:05 it's, he's spinning out of control, right? Yeah. Now, and I'm gonna take this back to JD Vance in a second. Now, weirdly, and I wouldn't have said this a year ago, but now that I've... I think Nick Fuentes is the greater threat because if you, if you watch his clips- Oh... a lot of the times he criticizes the dumb anti-Semites- I know... and actually has, he, he- He's a smart anti-Semite...

29:27 actually has read enough of the, of the original J- Jewish sources and kind of knows what he's talking about, that, um, he's much more formidable because he's, um, there's, like, actual intellectual substance there as opposed to Tucker Carlson, who will have on people who, again, are like, you know, have, have credentials like a John Mearsheimer.

29:46 Right. But John Mearsheimer is now closer to the monopoly money because he says un- lunatic things that, how could he possibly believe that? It's so crazy. So- Well, where's- Where's Fuentes these days on Jews? Uh, you know, there were times, like, I was just like, "Oh, this is a Mossad op." Where, like- Yeah. [laughs]... he's gonna, he's gonna come out, he's gonna come out. I was totally wrong. Uh, he's still... He's...

30:06 No, we... He, he's a danger. He's still a terrible antisemite who, um, he really does not, he doesn't think Jews should have any political power or own media companies. He's like a re- He's crazy in this respect. Okay. Um, but... And, and awful. So anyway, J.D. Vance has called out Nick Fuentes. But the problem with, in my view, with, with J.D. Vance is that I don't... I, I would imagine that J.D.

30:30 Vance probably cringes, you know, when he hears his friend Tucker Carlson talking about all this crazy stuff. It doesn't help him in any way. Right. But he felt the need, when he went on Joe Rogan a, a couple months ago, a month and a half ago, to, like, pretend that he was up at night, you know, uh, in, doing his own investigation- I know...

30:50 of, like, Area 51- Oh, my God... and who killed Charlie Kirk. Yeah. And that he would come back on the show when he found evidence. And, and, like, saying things like, "Well, you know, we'll probably never know the truth about Epstein because they, they burned those files." And, like, I'm like, "Dude, I mean, like, you're a vice president now." Yeah.

31:05 Yeah, yeah. So when he's in a position, I don- So I don't know what to believe. Maybe it's true. He's in the Naval Observatory at 2:00 in the morning- Yeah... and Usher is like, "Get to bed, J.D." [laughs] And he's like, "No, just I've gotta go. I'm on Reddit right now." [laughs] Maybe that, maybe that's true, or maybe he's saying it 'cause he thinks that's the future- Right... like, you know- Yeah...

31:24 voters of the Republican Party. That's what I wonder. And he wants to pretend, say, "Hey, I'm one of you." Yeah. But either way, it's not good. Because what he has... A responsible leader, what a George H.W. Bush would say, or a George W. Bush would say is that, uh, "I have a serious job, and I have an... uh, I...

31:39 the public, I have a, a public trust that I'm upholding, and I have a certain obligation to my office and to the American people that I cannot indulge in lunatic conspiracy theories. And they're not true, and you shouldn't believe that. And it's not good." And, uh, I- And also, "What the fuck is Reddit?" he would say. Yeah. Or maybe. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What the fuck is Reddit? Exactly.

31:59 But, like, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's my issue with J.D. Vance, is that in- either he's playing a part, so he's a, he's a phony and he has no core. He's like a man without a country, right? Or he's, he really is one of these, like, you know, I've... you know, he's through the looking glass types. And that either way is bad, if you know what I'm saying. Hmm.

32:20 The reason Nick Fuentes is so dangerous, in my opinion, is because- Yeah... I find myself laughing at the clips that I see of him. Yeah. He is funny. I, I laugh. He is funny, yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's so funny." And then I was like, "Wait, stop, Michaela. Don't laugh at him. Don't listen." Like, and it...

32:35 I understand why young people and why kid- Like, I, 'cause I'm falling f- I, I'm falling for him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then, and you have to be so careful with him. The other people, Tucker, these are, are, are such, uh, like, clowns in a way that is, it's embarrassing. It's cringe. It's, it's so... I mean, he brings on the most ridiculous people on his show Tucker.

32:56 I mean, it's, it's awful. But Nick, Nick Fuentes is d- I think he's very, very dangerous 'cause he's so charming. Yes. He's so, so charming. And he says the things that you're not allowed to say, which- Right... appeals to everyone. Yes. Right, right. And one of those things is, like- Right... voice slop, you know? It's terrible. It's terrible. Yeah. But I, I wanna ask you a question about something- Yeah...

33:15 that I've been thinking a lot about, and I really trust you on this, Eli. So the Jewish community's been struggling with this issue here in America of what to do with people who say stupid things, or insult Jews, or say "Free Palestine" on their private social media, and then the mob comes after them.

33:34 Hmm. And we wanna, like, get them kicked out of their jobs. We wanna get them kicked out of their roles of, like, whatever organization they're in. And I feel like I'm seeing a lot more of a, a, a sort of disagreement amongst ourselves within the Jewish community about how to deal with these instances, right? And so, like, for example- You know, like Stop Antisemitism. Yeah. Yeah. Like, exactly.

33:55 Like, you know- Canary Project. Yeah, that kind of stuff, right? Like, I've heard you kind of... We've talked about this a little bit. Like 80% hits- Yeah... and 20% misses. Yeah. What do we do about, you know, like, president of a museum in Akron, Ohio, who, like, tweets out, you know, "The poor children in Gaza, stop genociding them"? Do we rally around to get them fired from their job- Hmm...

34:18 at the art museum in Akron, or- No... do we sit back and just say, "These people are idiots"? I, I think it's a little bit more complicated, if I can make it more complicated. Yeah, go for it. Because the other side, the Pal- pro-Palestinian side is, does, also does this clipping, and they- Yeah... they mine for- Rever- reverse canary mission-... prominent-... I've now called...

34:37 yeah, really prominent Zionists who say awful things. And, uh, certainly when it comes to Israeli politicians, I mean, there's, like, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich and others that are, and other pundits in that orbit- Yeah... who are now saying horrendous things and justifying things that should not be justified, in my view are really hurting Israel in a number of ways.

34:57 Uh, leaving aside its, like, public image problem, I'm talking about just internally to Israel. You, you... It's not good to have a major part of your ruling coalition, uh, that, I think in the case of Ben-Gvir is a Judeo-fascist. I've been saying that for a long time, and he, when he was, when he was, when he joined this government, I remember I was like, "All right. Let's see." Right. [laughs] You know, "Now you're, now you're in power.

35:20 Let's see how you act." And you know what? He's failed every test in my opinion. Every test. Um, I have no tolerance, and my hope is that, you know, where this is, where this is coming out on election day, I hope that he will not be part of whatever coalition is next. Even if Netanyahu is the next prime minister, I just hope that these people are not in government.

35:36 Okay, so, like, leaving that aside, you can, but you can find what they say, and then that is then seen as, like, an example of what is the entire, what all of Israel thinks, which is not true, and what Israeli policy is. Or you can find plenty of people in this country, you know, Jews in America or Jews in Australia, whatever, that are, you know, uh, red-pilled.

35:56 A lot of people after October 7th and seeing the reaction of their friends and neighbors really kind of went to another place. And I- Yeah... you know, personally myself, I would, I try to check it, but, like, yes- Hmm... you have to be aware that, like, the Jewish community is in a different place, and the other side does it.

36:12 So on the one hand, I kind of am like- Well, I don't like these rules. I wish the game wasn't played this way. Yeah. And, you know, I understand the, what the maxim of, of Mahatma Gandhi, you know, be the change in the world that you wanna see or whatever. Okay, fine. But, you know, like this notion that like we are a light unto the nations and we have to like, that is, yes, I know, that is part of our faith tradition- Mm... but it's not our entire faith tradition.

36:34 We gotta live in the world as it is. Mm-hmm. And we got enough problems. So on the one hand I'm like, all right, not for me, not my cup of tea. Now I do think strategically you have to distinguish between, just to give you an example, like there's like video of a woman like literally screaming at a visible Jew like in an office building, right?

36:53 And she happens to be like a regional director of care, right? Right. Right. Mm-hmm. I'm like, you know what, like I understand you're like a m- a mid-level activist- Yeah... but you're a lunatic and, you know, you, the world should know just who you really are, okay? Right. Versus somebody who like tweets like, you know, like I, whatever. St- if- Yeah...

37:15 so many people say it's a genocide now even though it's wrong- Right. Yeah. Right... that that cannot be itself disqualifying because, uh, at the very least you have to, I mean, I think it's, it's totally wrong, but it's- Yeah... that's not the equivalent of some of the incredibly ug- It's not antisemitism to be an idiot... well, well- You know?... incredibly ugly things that we have seen against Jews.

37:36 Like, I mean, I'm saying on, you, you know, obviously distinguish between words and violence, and there has been- Yeah... violence. And then also you have to hold people running for public office to a different- Yeah... standard than just random doctors and so forth. But on the other hand, um, you know, uh, I think there was a story a few years ago about like, you know, like there was an association of professional psychologists who, you know, talked about deprogramming Zionists who were their patients.

38:02 That- Yeah, the APA, very early in the war. Yeah. Well, must be exposed. Like that- Yeah... so, so it's kinda, you have to case by case it. You should not, we should not be in the position though of, and I think it's very clear, that we do not want to just be, um, you know, you should recognize our place in the oppression Olympics or our place- Right...

38:22 in the oppression, the oppressed hierarchy. We have no future in a DEI world, and we should understand that the same kinds of prejudices against just white Christian men in elite institutions that also are against, you know, Jewish Zionists, like we should, we should, uh, kind of be in the, on, on the, on the side of eliminating these kinds of barriers- Right...

38:47 and not just kind of calling that. So that in my view is, so it's a tricky kinda thing. But on the other hand we have to recognize antisemitism is much more of a threat right now than all of the other stuff in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. And it's, again, it's a kinda case by case basis. I would have a different standard for a sophomore at Columbia than I would- Mm... a Columbia professor who teaches- Right... students. Right. But also- And-... depends on what, right? Like I saw- Yeah...

39:13 and, and I think Stop Antisemitism and Canary Mission do some, some excellent things. Yeah. But I saw, um, a post the other day about a woman in a, who works at a hospital, had a water bottle, and it had a f- she had a free Palestine sticker on the water bottle. Yeah. Fine. So fucking what? I'm not gonna be her friend, okay? Yeah. Great. But I don't need her to be, like that is a- She shouldn't get fired... a legitimate- Yeah... position to have.

39:35 And also, you know, y- you know, we talked about, we talked with- Right... Dan a bit about this too. We talk about, you know, genocide and all this stuff. It's like unfortunately, i- it's so mainstream it doesn't make it any less false, but it means that the people who hold these opinions are not necessarily hateful people. They're just wrong.

39:51 But Yael, I do wanna push on one thing, 'cause I agree. I'm like you have a free Palestine sticker on your water bottle, whatever. But just like if- That's like embarrassing for you... but just to play devil's advocate- Mm-hmm... I think that there are some Jews who feel that if a nurse is walking around with a water bottle that has a free Palestine sticker and they know that you're a Jew, they start worrying, "Am I getting the care that I should be, you know, receiving?"

40:13 Now, I'm not saying that's a legitimate question to ask. I would not assume that somebody just because they have a free Palestine sticker is not gonna take care of a Jew, but that's where I think some of the Jewish community is coming from. But what would you say to a- Where it's this deep-seated fear that- What would you say to a-... you know, they don't care about our lives...

40:28 Black person, a Black person in a hospital who's the nurse has a sticker that says, um, you know, Blue Lives Matter? Or, no, but okay, fine. But what about if they have a Confederate flag on their water bottle? But they don't see it as a- If you are a Black patient- A lot of these people don't see free Palestine as a Confederate pla- flag. Yeah, but we do. They see it... I know, I know we do. But, but Jew- but a lot of Jews do.

40:47 But unfortunately- Yeah... and this is kinda I think goes back to how bad and how like, you know, how this runaway train has become, is for a lot of people, if you, you go to certain parts of, of, I don't wanna say certain parts of the country necessarily, but let's say certain parts of the culture, free Palestine is the most- I know...

41:06 like normal thing you can say. It's like saying, you know, save the Earth. Yeah. Yeah. Again, doesn't mean it's less stupid. We'll be right back. Here's a chosen people problem we can actually solve. Finally, because we're not doing antisemitism today. No, I'm over it. Today we're doing money, and specifically how you should be spending yours. How you should be spending your money on us. Join Ark Plus.

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42:48 Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or follow the link in the show notes. I hope to see you tomorrow. [upbeat music] Okay, we're back with our friend Eli Lake. This conversation's a little precious to me because- Aw... we're living in an era right now where if you wanna be a Democratic politician in New York City, you have to say there was a genocide. Yeah. Yeah. Fair.

43:11 The Gaza war. And that, like, the price- And AIPAC is the problem... the price of entry into- Yeah... a respectable progressive society is to, is to basically be on the side of those who want to negate the state, uh, the j- the only Jewish state in the world. Well, that's because people are pussies. Well, that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying, that's- Yeah... the other side has created- Right, right... um, such a stigma to any- Mm-hmm... Zionism, that it's like, and then they complain to be like, you know, the rebels, and, like, they're, like, being persecuted because we're offended. Mm.

43:41 Now, I, again, I'm not offended by the pro- the Free Palestine water bottle, but- Yeah... you know, there might be some- You know what I mean? I am offended by 300 students, you know, blocking the quad, saying- Mm... "From the river to the sea." Yeah. Right. But the, what, what we should recognize is that, first of all, there's always a pendulum to American culture, especially in this era of the omnicause.

44:04 What the Palestine movement just no longer has, and we should exploit this, is the kind of ground to say that they are punk rock, that they're the rebels. They're not. Yeah. They are, if you're on a college campus, if you're in a n- in a, most newsrooms, uh, Paramount ex- and the free press excluded- Yeah. [laughs]... at this point, but, like- Arc Media. [laughs] Um- Yeah...

44:24 you know, i- if, if you're in most, you know, faculty lounges, if you're, like, you know, in most, uh, major Hollywood studios, uh, the as- you're, you're, you're a conformist if you say, "Free Palestine." You're not an independent- Yeah... uh, you're not, like, you know, you're not, like s- a dissident, you know?

44:43 The dissidents on college campuses, in newsrooms, in Hollywood, are the ones that wear Menachem Begin T-shirts and say, "Am Yisrael Chai." Right. That is the punk rock position in 2026. It wasn't necessarily before. And eventually, even A- AIPAC should eventually be like, "Hey, we're transgressive. We're AIPAC." Yeah. So, if you, like, if you're, like, running in, like, Brooklyn, and you're like, "You know what? I love AIPAC." Yeah.

45:07 [laughs] Yeah. That's, at this point, like, super- Have you seen that-... punk rock... have you seen that- Yeah, that's so true... trend on Twitter? And I don't know- Yeah... how big of a trend it is. I know it's filling up my feed, but that doesn't mean that it's that big of people writing, "I am not Jewish, I am Danish, I am Swedish, I am whatever." Oh, I've seen it all over Twitter, yeah. "And I'm a Zionist."

45:25 Yeah, I've seen it. And first of all, it's lovely, because I see them all- I like that... and I like them all. But there's, uh, there is something kind of like, you know, fuck you right now about being a Zionist. Right. Well, it's like, this is the thing. When we were in the middle of 2020 and COVID and Black Lives Matter, it felt like there was a n- consensus that was imposed about masks- Mm-hmm... prisons, and police- Mm-hmm...

45:49 that didn't feel natural, and people were like, but, you know, what it did was it kind of incubated a counterculture that may have went too far. Like- Right... now we have RFK Jr. and- [laughs] Right... you know, people- Bert Weinstein... just skirting the edge. Yeah. [laughs] Right, exactly. It's like you're never gonna get the full consensus.

46:06 And eventually, what seems like it's just, like this, oh my God, imagine what it's gonna be like in 15 years, well, I don't know what it's gonna be like in 15 years. Because five years ago, I would say- Mm... "Wow, in, in, in 15 years, uh, all the Democrats are gonna be against police officers and prisons," and that certainly didn't happen.

46:25 And, like, there is a level where, like, on foreign policy at least, it doesn't make any sense for the United States to end its relationship with Israel, given how innovative the Israeli military tech industry is. Right, right. And given kind of where the rest of the Middle East is, and the fact that our other allies in the region, uh, like, wanna be friends with Israel, you know, deep down. Yeah. Yeah.

46:47 Now, that said, I also think you're getting at something else that's really important, which is that, like, we, come on, our people, the American Jews, Jews in America and diaspora, we have to be a bit more resilient- Mm. Yeah... at times, so that, so that there, so with, that when we make a legitimate complaint- Yeah... again, like, I think the 2024 encampments and building takeovers- Mm...

47:08 on elite campuses was a legitimate complaint, then, like, that's real. But we also have to sort of accept that, like, all right, fine, there's gonna be these people that are gonna say and think terrible things, and they're idiots, and I'm gonna hold my head up high. Yeah. I always go back to my favorite Menachem Begin speech- That's it... where he's talking about remarks from the German chancellor, and he says, "All right, if they say we have crooked noses, let them say we have." Right.

47:31 You know, let, let them turn up their noses and say, you know, whatever. And he's like, "You know what? Just, we have to be ourselves. We have to have that inner pride, that inner strength, that inner dignity, hadar." Yeah. Exactly. We have to respect ourselves, and not, like- Exactly, and respect ourselves... not, like, whine- And that's the only way... about everything... it's the only way, people. Yeah.

47:46 That, that's what Israel's doing, yeah. That's right, and that's why, like, I'm much quicker to want to boycott or, I hate that word, but you know what I mean, like, I, any Jew who comes out and is like, "Genocide, genocide," whatever, like, I won't, I, I can't, I can't tolerate it. When non J- I don't, I don't have as much anger at non-Jews who say it or who believe it. It bothers me, obviously. I'm not saying it doesn't bother me. But whatever.

48:09 But Jews, like, I can't, I just can't tol- I, I have zero tolerance for it now. You are literally throwing your people under the bus for no reason. This is go, I believe there's gonna be a pendulum swing, and the, it's, everyone's gonna laugh at the fact that they thought this was a genocide in a few years. Oh, I agree.

48:26 Exactly like they're saying, Eli, about Black Lives Matter and all that stuff. I, I agree- And I-... but only a little bit. No, but I- I think so, but I'm not sure... I think the Jews jumping on the bandwagon is the most embarrassing- Yes... cringe... thing that has happened in our lifetime because it i- it is go- they are going to be, uh, shamed for the rest of their lives that they stuck with this program.

48:46 I mean, the guy from that show, the rabbi show on Netflix, this, this low IQ, sorry to use a, a ph- phrase- Adam Brody... of our enemies, but, like, Adam Brody, for him to throw in the word genocide- Not even that hot... for no reason. Yeah, exactly. For him to throw it in for no reason, I mean, he's gonna live with that forever. Every time I see that guy, I'm gonna remind him that he said that Israel committed genocide.

49:09 [laughs] You sound like you run into him a lot. I, I'm going to on purpose. Okay, but hold on, Chaya. And I'm gonna say, "Remember?" Let me, let me, let me complicate things. Okay, go for it. I think what we're gonna see, I'm not saying it's gonna work for every one of these as a Jews. We've already seen it, which is that we've already seen, um, like Scott Wiener, the, uh, California- Oh, yeah...

49:29 representative. Yes. You know, well, that was a, that was a horrifying scene when he went to the Pride thing- Yeah... in San Francisco, and h- a mental patient is screaming at the top of his lungs about- Yeah, yeah... how he's responsible, and, "I used to love you, and now you're a, you're a Nazi," and, like, it's just- Brad Lander. Brad Lander's another one.

49:46 Um, Brad Lander's primary opponent, uh, you know, Goldman, uh, he, uh, you know, when, when he, when his, when his daughter and him were... They declined service because basically they were Jews. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, the, the head of this, you know. Stuff like that, um, I think is a wake-up call to a number of these progressive... I was so disappointed by Dana Nessel, the attorney general in Michigan. Yes.

50:12 Because at first, she was saying, like, "I can't even go to my state"- Right... you know, 'cause of these lunatics, and then she ended up endorsing Abdul El-Sayed. Uh, ditto for Elissa Slotkin, who's Jewish. So what I'm saying is that I think what we saw, like, with, um, you know, w- with, with the, uh, ultras who were screaming their heads off at a vigil with Mamdani, with, like- Yes... Tommy left-wing Jews on October 7th.

50:38 Mm-hmm. We're gonna see that with a number of these as a Jews. Yeah. Yeah. Good. So the question then becomes, like, I... 'Cause I agree with you. Like, I have so much contempt for Omar Bar- Bartov and- Ugh... Peter Beinart- Beinart, ugh... and all the, this crud. I can't stand it. And I, you know, I wrote the as a Jew piece- Yes... for commentary. Yeah. And then did the podcast.

50:55 But, like, my thing is, like, okay, at a certain point, there might be kind of, you know, with their tail between their legs, so to speak, and saying, you know, "I was wrong. I, my... I kinda see"- I don't think they'll say- "... who, who these alleged allies are." Well- Yeah... the, some of them will But, but I think the voters will. I think the voters will, 'cause we already see- Yeah...

51:13 you know, if you, if you looked at the recent numbers from New York, I mean, Mamdani's approval ratings amongst Jew are so low in a way- Yes... that doesn't correlate with the, the Jewish vote for him, right? That means there are a lot of people who are Jewish who voted for him or maybe- Right... didn't approve, didn't disapprove of him who now disapprove him.

51:33 So I think that the people are smarter than the politicians who are kind of, like, hitching their, you know, kinda going all in on this. Yeah, but what I'm saying is I think that when you have a w- somewhat public figure in the, in the conversation- Mm-hmm, mm... that experiences real antisemitism, even if they- Right...

51:50 you know, sided with the antisemites and stupidly thought that they, you know, were, uh, you know, I don't know. Like, I d- I hate it when very, like, left-wing Jews believe that the real Jewish position is to turn on Israel and turn on- Yeah... you know, the Jewish people. [laughs] Like, you know how- The Jewish values.

52:06 All the Jews. They're tikkun olaming it, uh, brain- Yeah... down. Tikkun olaming. But okay. Well, this is what we're gonna call this episode. [laughs] All these people, all these people, right, at some point, not all of them, but, like, a lot of them, are going to have a Hebrew wake-up call. That's right.

52:18 And when they do, my view is, like, you know, the broader mishpocha- Yeah... the broader family of the Jewish people should be like, "Okay." I don't know. "Fine, you're back." You know, we don't have to have you. We can't... W- I, I, I don't need to tell, I don't need to go through all of your past things.

52:35 Like, if you wanna come back into this, where we're gonna treat you with a kind of dignity, kind of sort of you coming around to our side, I don't wanna turn those people away- Right, right... because I do think that there will be some people like that. I'm not saying that everyone's gonna be like that. I think you're right. I think you're right. Look. Yeah. You know what?

52:49 I always remind myself, our friend Jason always says, "Israel is gonna be okay because they are necessary." Yes. The world needs Israel. They provide something- Yes... aside from just my feelings about them as a, you know, our, our ancestral homeland, whatever. Like, they actually provide technology and what... I mean, there's use.

53:06 Israel is a useful country, and so they're going to be okay. And I feel like American Jews have to remind themselves about that sometimes because we a- too many American Jews are like, "It's easier to just shun Israel out of our- Hmm... lives, try to ignore it, and it will go away, and nobody will have... And we could just be regular American citizens."

53:24 But Israel's not going anywhere, and Israel's gonna become more useful, I think, as time goes on, especially after the election is over and things hopefully, hopefully settle down. And there's different realities on the ground in the Middle East. I think Israel has potential to become an even bigger player on the world stage, you know?

53:43 And the Jews in America are gonna have to deal with that reality, and- Well, obviously, the other reason I think Israel's gonna be okay is because you have a generation of young Israelis who, you know, really kinda showed up and, and, like, heeded the call to service. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, the October 7th generation will, like, create a generation of leaders that will, you know, kind of really strengthen not just, like, the nation of Israel but the Jewish identity.

54:11 And so- Yeah. Well, there's, um- That's true... I don't know. That's an optimistic view, which I share. Um, but I also share the pessimistic view. And, you know, Israel's going through a lot of turmoil, obviously. We're, we're Election Day. A lot, uh, rests on. And, you know, forget Bibi, not Bibi, but, like, just the quality of people in government, their views of, you know, corruption, their views on, you know, international relations. People are very much on edge.

54:38 There are, there is, like you said, a, an amazing young generation. I see it in my nieces and nephews who are just like all the kids. They're, like, TikTok and shopping and all that stuff, but then they go into the army. And, you know, they, they complain 'cause they're, they're obviously, you have to complain about waking up early and going to the army and, and- Right... but they're very, like, driven.

54:56 They, they know that it's their They're doing their part for their people. Um, but, you know, there, there is, there is a lot of turmoil within, and it, a lot of people feel like this election is the most important one in the country's history. I, I wanna just go back, though, to the October 7th generation. This is coming on the heels of the Kaplan protests, where the country was at each other's throats. Um, in a moment of crisis like that- Mm-hmm...

55:25 to sort of persevere despite, you know- Yeah... every week, the hostages in Tel- s- you know, families in Tel Aviv, the emotional, grueling journey, really, and to still be a cohesive nation, and to actually have tangible military victories. The war is not yet won, because Hamas is still existing, but, uh, I think Israel can strategically look at the map and say that a lot of its enemies are now, a lot of our enemies are now- Yeah. Yeah...

55:52 you know, no longer. And, and America's enemies too, let us not forget- America's enemies too-... Hizballah killed- Right, and enemies of the West- of Western civilization... you know, thousands of Americans. That, and, and that ev- that, that didn't happen, you know, you know, by magic. That happened because of people.

56:04 Let's not discount the fact that the country was ab- Israelis were able to bind together, kind of have a mission task, despite all of these other things that were... You know, and yes, we're now seeing a like, you know, there's a lot of unresolved things, and that is true, and I hope... I do think this generation of leaders, uh, will be eventually replaced, and I hope this newer generation will have a, have more of a kind of ab- ability. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause Israelis are very- Yes...

56:29 very loyal to each other, um, which is a, which is a great thing. And you know, a lot of people said, I don't know, not, maybe not a significant majority, but there were people who said during the judicial reform protests that they would no longer go to reserve duty. Right. And they would no, you know, they wouldn't volunteer- Right... their time. And what happened on October 7th at 6:29 AM? All those people got in their cars, in their private cars, and their- Yeah...

56:52 flip-flops and went to- Right... to fight. Went to fight. Because it's stronger than us. Or how many had already made, what's the opposite of, of Aliyah when you go out of- Right... the country? Leave, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you- The army who left had been flying back to Israel as soon as it happened. Yeah. Right. There were a lot of- Ready to- I hear that a lot now- Yeah...

57:08 from my sister's teacher, and she said, you know, there are a few kids, uh, in her school whose the, the- Right... people leave. And sometimes they go to like, they call it like relocation, you know. They go for like a job for a few years. And, and I always say like it's kinda rich for me to say, 'cause I live in America, but what do you wanna go, like live in Amsterdam in a little like Israeli community where your kids are going to school with like armed guards, and where, you know, you're, if you're taking the subway at night, uh, you don't, maybe don't wanna wear your Star of David.

57:37 Like, a- and, and, and don't even get me started about the dysfunction of other governments, 'cause Israelis think that their government and their services are the only ones that are dysfunctional. Right, right. And I'm like, I worked for the city of New York for six years. Like, let me tell you, it, you know- Yeah... it's not a uniquely Israeli problem. Yeah. Wait, okay, Eli, I have a, I have a very important question. Okay.

57:57 You have a five-year-old daughter. Correct. Do you let her watch Miss Rachel? Mm. It's funny you say that. It's, it's never really come up, um- Oh... because her diet of, uh, her video diet has basically- Holocaust documentaries... gone... I can give you... No, no, I can give you... [laughs] It started with, uh, Daniel Tiger. Oh, yes. Which I highly recommend. Yes.

58:19 It is a great show about regulating your emotions. And I have to tell you, it is for three-year-olds and- Maybe I'll watch that... four-year-olds. But grown-ups can- [laughs]... more than watch them too. I find myself sometimes singing that song, like, you know- [laughs]... "Mad, I'm mad, it helps to say I'm mad." Yeah. [laughs] You know? 'Cause like, it, it does.

58:34 It's like, it's really, it's like the whole show's about regulating your emotions. Yes. It's great. That's so funny. So I was very happy with Daniel Tiger. She moved on, and now she watches some, a show that was like from the, fr- I don't know how we found it, but she loves it. It's called The Magic School Bus. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. That lady was crazy.

58:52 That lady- Lily Tomlin... would totally be like, "Free Palestine" now. Yeah. [laughs] Maybe, but like, whatever it is, like she, she loves that. It's great. There's this kind of very science- Yeah... very learning based. She's super into like extreme weather now. And then the other things she likes are, um, there's, there's a National Geographic show, I think, or maybe it's PBS Kids, that's just like, kind of like, um, they- they're animal documentaries for kids.

59:16 Those are called, um- Oh... they're called Amazing Animals or Awesome Animals, and she loves those. Yeah. That's good. So this is the other thing, and I, I don't know exactly why, but she loves videos that are like these condensed, they're not TikToks, 'cause I don't have TikTok, but they're on YouTube, but they're like these shorts- YouTube shorts Yeah...

59:33 where it starts with an incredibly dirty car, and then they restore it- Yeah. [laughs] Oh... in like 30 seconds, and it's gleaming. Yeah. Yeah. And she calls them dirty car videos. And then you see them kind of brushing it. And she absolutely loves them. Yeah. Car cleaning. Yeah. No, well, you sort of see it, but it's, it's, it's all sped up. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

59:49 And, um, I have to say, I find that, I guess from an ASMR like also- Yeah... uh, satisfying. No, carpet cleaning videos are big on TikTok. Yeah, like, okay, well so we haven't found, we haven't done those yet, but- [laughs]... she, she calls them dirty car videos, so she likes those. It's funny because, uh, it's n- Miss Rachel has never come up.

1:00:08 Well, that's good. And I have seen Miss Rachel, obviously because it's become a kind of political thing, and I just find it to be kinda like low IQ kids programming. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just like all- Yeah, it's for, it's for dumb kids... it's like, yeah. I was obsessed with like the Baby Einstein videos when my kids were little- Oh, yeah, I remember those. Yeah... and Little Einsteins. Yeah.

1:00:24 And I remember my father saying, "You know who didn't watch Baby Einstein? Einstein." Okay? [laughs] He was like, [laughs] he would get so upset at me, 'cause I would stick the video on, and I'd be like, "This is really good for their brain development." Aw. And he would just have no patience. That's a brilliant... It's really good for the person who created Baby Einstein. [laughs] I gotta br- I, I gotta brag a little bit, because- Go for it. Yes. We wanna hear... Nora's, Nora's in kindergarten.

1:00:48 Um, we read her three books a night. Wow. Um, and last night, for the third book, she read, um, I don't know if you guys ever saw this book called We Are in a Book. Wow. No. No. And you, you see, it's, it's a, it's about a, a pig and an elephant- Oh... and how they're in a book, and they're talking to the reader. Anyway, she read the whole thing. She read the entire book Oh my gosh...

1:01:09 like almost no flaws- Oh my gosh... and she just read it straight through. Ugh. Hmm. And I was so proud of her. I was like, "Nora, that is the first book you've read front to back." Oh. Is that right? She read the whole thing. You know what I mean? I, and it was just, like, out of nowhere. Like, normally I read, I do the voices. I know. You know, she loves Mad Science Academy, and like- Yeah... Mad Scientist Academy.

1:01:28 She loves all these books. She's going through a real extreme weather phase right now. Hmm. So anything about tornadoes and lightning storms and... When your kids start doing things like that, that- Yeah... you can't con- Like, that they're now, like, their own person and she can read her own book, it's, there's just no feeling like it. It's hard to describe what it feels like that...

1:01:46 I mean, naches is the word, you know, that I can use. It is naches, right. And the thing for- It's just naches. There's no word, like- It's like I had no i- Now Nora knows it's, like, cold now, but she'll tell you, like, you know, like there's, there's five categories. There's EF1 tornadoes. Yeah. [laughs] EF5 tornadoes.

1:02:01 It comes from a cumulonimbus cl- cloud- Yes... when warm air and cold air... And she knows the whole thing. I know. It's- And so she's, she's fascinated. Has she been on a flight? Yes. Yeah. 'Cause that would be fun for her if she likes weather, like to see- Yeah... the clouds and everything. She, she has. She's been on a flight. Um, she's actually, uh, pretty easy to travel with.

1:02:18 I mean, we take a lot of trains to New York. I do see families, I'm sure this has hap- You know, you see, like, that it's really hard to travel with these kids. They're, like- Mm-hmm... rambunctious and they're all over the place. Mm-hmm. Nora's pretty easy, you know. That's good. We just, you know, read her some books. Just give her a book. Good for you.

1:02:32 Read her a book, maybe bribe her with a couple gummy bears. Yeah. That's good. Good for you. I mean, that works for me. Give me a book and some gummy bears and I'm, I'm quiet. I, I- There you go... I walked around with... See, the problem with traveling with my kids was I always had this thing that we represented the entire Jewish people. And any... I have, I've said this a few times on the podcast- Yeah...

1:02:50 that I lived in fear that we were gonna create antisemites as we walked- [laughs]... through the world, and that people who saw my kids misbehaving- Good... were gonna be like, "Those Jews." And so I was always like, "Boys- A young Tucker Carlson... we are representing Hashem every step we go." [laughs] "You are in the army of Hashem, and everywhere we go...

1:03:09 And it's not about me, it's about Hashem, and you have to behave and be a good representative for him." And so it was always a little stressful, but now I don't feel that way anymore. Well, this was, this was her first... This weekend was her first bat mitzvah. Aw. And we explained, and she really wants to have a bat mitzvah now, but I do think that, like, in her head, I, you know, when you try to explain to a five-year-old, like, okay, well you're- Yeah...

1:03:29 reading from the Torah for the first time- Mm-hmm... and this is what the adults do, so it's your rite of way of being an adult, but you're not really an adult when you're 13. And we try to explain, like, it's difficult, but she was kinda getting it. But for her, she's like, bat mitzvah means there's an ice cream bar. Yes. Yeah. There's a mocktail bar. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Presents.

1:03:49 [laughs] I mean- Yes... I can have as much- Pretty dresses... kosher sushi as I want. Exactly. Like it's- Uh-huh. She's not wrong... so she sort of sees that. The girl's not wrong. And then there's a ton of presents, and then she asked if there was face painting. There wasn't at this, but, like, you know, like she- Yeah, yeah, yeah... sees it as, like, this big party.

1:04:02 But I, I, that makes me happy too. Did you have a bar mitzvah? Were you bar mitzvah'd, Eli? I have a s- I mean, this is a, this... You're saving the best for last. I was raised in the secular Jewish Children's Folkschool. So I did have a bar mitzvah- Oh... but it was a very non-traditional bar mitzvah that actually consisted of, if you can imagine, I was 13 years old, and I gave, like, a presentation to the community about Jewish perspectives on, uh, nuclear weapons and arms control.

1:04:27 [laughs] So Eli. I swear to God, there was a videotape of it. Oh my God, you have to find us that video. [laughs] But I was like... It was very left wing at the time, 'cause it was a left-wing community. So I had, like, a men- they have a mentor, you do your own research. Yeah. Like I, I, I, I did. I filled out a Freedom of Information Act- Oh my gosh... and, like, it was a whole thing. That's your origin story.

1:04:42 Everything makes so much sense now. Like, by the way, j- just sort of, uh, the rest of the story is that for high school I went to a Jewish day school. So I d- I kind of... My parent, but also me, I wanted- Right... I realized I wanted a more traditional Jewish education. But the point is is that what they were, like, I had...

1:04:58 I'll show you how old I am, but when I, before I turned 13 and 12 years old, there was a show on, and you guys are too young for this, but I was, like, 12. It's called The Day After, and then there was another one called Threads that was made by British television, which was about, like, these very scary kind of, like, miniseries on network television about what happens if there was a nuclear war.

1:05:22 Hmm. Hmm. And I watched this, stupidly. Um, I, I was like, "So why did my parents let me watch this?" [laughs] anyway. But, like- [laughs]... I watched this, and it literally was the only thing I could talk about, like, for six months. Like, I could only- Wow... talk about it. I became obsessed with it. I was like, "Are we all... Is it, is it coming?"

1:05:39 And like, you know, all the things, like radiation poisoning. Other kids are into baseball and- You know, what, uh, what was annoying, 'cause when I was at, I was at a, a, a Labor Zionist summer camp, and- Oh my God... I, I, I just, I, I was the least popular kid. 'Cause the only thing I wanted to talk about- [laughs]...

1:05:53 was, like, did you know what would happen if there was a nuclear war, and we have to watch these Soviet, now Reagan is gonna do it. Yeah. It was, like, all that. [laughs] And so they're like, "Hey, why don't you do your bar mitzvah project on it? Because you can't stop talking about it." Like, you know, which is, you know, makes sense, you know.

1:06:06 Like, you wanna have your kid follow what they- Yeah... so that's kind of the origin of that. But then I went to, you know, I went to day school and I, I wanted to learn w- the actual stuff, not just this kind of very secular humanist version of it. Right... which, uh, I'm, I mean... Anyway, I'm glad I had both.

1:06:21 Yeah. It's funny how we are who we are, even when we're young. 'Cause my family makes fun of me- Yeah... that when I was 12, we went to a family, a, a friends of ours who had a pool in LA. We went for a pool party, and everybody was outside swimming and having a barbecue, and I was inside because I asked the owners of the home, a Chabad family in LA, I asked if I could use their radio so I could listen to the live trial of Clarence Thomas- Oh, wow...

1:06:47 and Anita Hill. Mm. Amazing. On the... I was 12, and I wouldn't go outside into the pool because Anita Hill was testifying, and I wanted to listen. There you go. And my parents thought I was a mental patient. Like, they were gonna put me in a mental institution- [laughs]... because that's what I cared about. [laughs] And they were like, "Who cares about this stuff?" But I did. And you don't change.

1:07:05 Like, you're just, you are who you are, you know? Yeah. You, I mean, I- I changed... I changed politically because I, I- Yeah. That's fine... like, I'm, I'm now- But it's very on-brand for a bar mitzvah... a great admirer of Ronald Reagan. And when I was- Yeah... at the time, I was like, you know, "Why, why, why isn't he, um, you know- Yeah, yeah... col- collaborating with, uh, the, the, the, the Soviets?" But, you know.

1:07:23 Right, right, right. [laughs] Well, thank you so much for giving us your time, Eli. Obviously, as usual- Oh, thank you for having me. I, I love you guys. And- And mazel tov on the, um- Thank you... joining Arc Media- Thank you... the powerhouse of, uh- Thank you. Thank you. Will you email, uh, Dan Senor and tell him this was a good idea? Yeah. Yeah, it's hell. [laughs] I mean, you know. I know, yeah.

1:07:41 It's funny, it's been such a rollercoaster these years. It's like, you know- I know... October 7th and then- I know. The war. And by the way, it's, why- we should say- And we're not, like, right now we're in the rollercoaster stuck upside down. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] That's how I feel. Is it, is it the Sinwar anniversary when we're recording right now? Oh. Oh, is it? Oh, good. Allah yerhamhu, as we say. Hope- hopefully he's burning in hell, that guy.

1:08:02 But, um- Uh, speak, by the way, speaking of, uh, of shaming people, the guy from the Park Slope Co-op who posted in their message, "Long live Yahya Sinwar," like- Yeah... make him famous. I would- Yeah... happily take billboards with his face out. Yeah. But, you know- That's true... maybe a little different from the "Free Palestine" sticker. I don't know, I, I, I really feel like it has...

1:08:21 I mean, that's a horrible thing to say, but just kinda going back to it, like, I just think, like- Forget it... public figures, you know, like college professors is, like, a slight, slight down. Mm-hmm. Um, rando co-op board member who isn't... You know what I mean? I just- Yeah, not important... I just feel it like it's, it's, there, because there, there's an echo of that where- Mm...

1:08:40 like, I, the excesses of woke one- Yeah... remember, where they would find some random woman in, like, Pensacola, Florida, who was like, "Nancy Pelosi is a shriveled old hag." [laughs] And then they would make, you know what I mean, that NBC social media unit, they'd try to get people's accounts banned and, like, all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. I'd be like, "Ugh, come on. Enough already."

1:08:58 But long live Yahya Sinwar is, that, that gets special treatment as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we'll link to all your work, but everybody should- All right... read you in the Free Press and listen to Breaking History. Absolutely. Thank you guys so much. Eli, thank you so much. Everybody else stay- Okay... uh, for a few more minutes. [upbeat music] Can I say something mean?

1:09:18 Okay. It's fall in New York, and I am, uh, I am, I, I like looking at other women, not in a sexy way, but I love looking- Sure... at how women dress. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. 'Cause I'm always like, "Ooh, I like that. I don't like that," whatever. There's this trend now, I think it started last year, of women looking like Hasidic girls. [laughs] The long jean dresses. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:40 And it's so confusing, 'cause I see these two girls coming at me with long jean dresses. I'm like, "Oh, you know, shabat shalom." And then I look up and they have, like, septum piercings and, like, a Kia. [laughs] Or whatever. Yes, yes. Like, what's up... Can, can you, like, can you- The modest- Is that, like, stolen valor? Modest dressing? No, I would say- Long, no, long jean- Oh, specifically the long jean skirts...

1:09:59 long jean skirts. Specifically. Yeah. I mean, it was a trend. I, when I was, in the '90s, we wore skirts that dragged on the floor. Like, we had these things called biz skirts. Anybody who's listening who's, like, religious or from the, or whatever, from the Orthodox world is gonna laugh, but we would wear these biz skirts. And if they weren't, like, dragging on the floor, they were not cool.

1:10:20 Was that, like- And our-... our equivalent of baggy skater pants- Yes, yes... that the seculars have? And our mothers, yes, and our mothers would, it would drive them crazy because they, it, they thought it was kind of immodest. Like, you can also have clothes that are immodest even if they're very, very long. Hmm.

1:10:34 And looking back now, it was pretty ugly, I have to admit. But, like, they wanted a, my mom wanted my skirt to be, like, you know, a, like, right above the ankle, I think, was, like, her dream- Hmm... for me. But that's really nerdy, and so... And although now it's get- it's more in style. But- But now when you see- I don't know... these girls who aren't Jewish- Yeah, it's funny. It is funny... how does that make you feel?

1:10:53 You're like, "That's our thing." I don't know. Kind of proud. I'm kind of proud. So those long jean skirts and jean dresses- Yeah... are very specifically, I think, like a certain look. Um, because if you go into, like, Boro Park or Williamsburg, they are not dressing like that at all. First of all- Hmm... many of those communities won't wear denim at all. Hmm. Wow.

1:11:11 There are many Hasidic sects that won't wear jean or denim, not men or women. Um, in Chabad, uh, girls and women do wear jeans. Men generally don't. Hmm. Um, like Baruch, my husband, does not wear jeans. Um, it's, like, considered- Because he's a Haredi man, not like- Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know. I think it's just considered, like, too dressed down or, I don't know- Hmm... mundane. Although many do.

1:11:35 I sh- I mean, my bro- like, I have brothers who wear jeans. Um- I wear jeans all the time. It's the most comfortable. Yeah. Some people don't think they're comfortable. I, like, fly in jeans. I love, like, jeans are the comf- Yeah... like sweatpants for me. Well, if I could say something mean, I would say I find that some women look very unattractive in jeans.

1:11:50 [laughs] But the denim skirts with the girls, I don't know, it's just, it's a little confusing to me when I see it. I don't think it's a good- Yeah... look, not for Hasidic women and not for non-Hasidic women. [laughs] I think it's a weird look, but you know, what do I know- Yeah... about, about fashion? We, we are... What do you mean? We are two fashionistas. I mean, they call us- I mean, that's why people are tuning in.

1:12:08 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm literally, like, taking photos of myself and showing it to Groq and be like, "What shirts can I buy?" [laughs] Because I'm doing a podcast. That's my fashion. If you wanna know, if you wanna know something mean, I'll tell you something mean. I think that, like, the people who dress up for Hollywood things look ridiculous. Oh, yeah.

1:12:25 Like, I like old-fashioned beauty, like glamour. You know? Yeah. Have a beautiful gown, have beautiful makeup, have gorgeous jewelry, a- and that's it. The ones who come, like, to the Met Gala, the Met Gala looks like a Purim carnival. Hmm. Like, and a, not even a good one. Yeah, not even a good one.

1:12:42 Like, the weirdest Purim carnival that you're ever gonna go to, that's the Met Gala. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. That's my hot take on fashion. Too bad- Looks ridiculous... you know, good thing we're not invited. [laughs] I would not go. Maybe we will be. Maybe. Could you imagine if we were invited to the Met Gala? Or there'll probably be some, like, Jewish version of it with a stupid pun- [laughs]...

1:12:59 like the Jay Gala or something, and it will just be, like- Like the Matzah Ball?... in- Instagram influencers- Yeah... and it'll be super cringe. [laughs] So we'll, we won't go to that either. We'll just stay home. Uh, fine. See you next week. We have some bonus episodes for you. Uh, if you wanna listen to those, go to arkmedia.org and subscribe. It's only $8 a month. Come on, guys. I know.

1:13:18 Like, that's $4 for me and $4 for Chaya Lyu. Right. Exactly. Um, which i- i- is not, it's, like- And, and they get really good content behind the paywall now. Like, we're doing, the questions are fun. Yeah. We're getting into good conversations. The questions are really fun. Yeah. And, like, we're talking a lot more about our personal lives. Like, it's, it's, I think it's worth it. Yeah, yeah.

1:13:37 Oh, and leave us a review, if you don't mind, on Apple Podcasts. I don't know why I'm asking so nicely. If you've listened this far- [laughs]... you owe us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Hmm. I read all of those, by the way. She does. Um, and I send them to all of our, you know, overlords here and be like, "See?" Mm-hmm.

1:13:54 Um, so no, if you do like it, it actually really helps us grow, especially on Apple Podcasts. Right. So if you do like the show, uh, consider giving us a five-star rating and commenting. And, uh, we love you guys. We love most of you. Yeah. [laughs] Bye. Bye. [upbeat music] Here's a chosen people problem we can actually solve. Finally, because we're not doing anti-Semitism today. No, I'm over it. Today we're doing money, and specifically how you should be spending yours.

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