What the Heck is Going on with Israeli Elections - with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal

0:00 There's never been more coverage of Israel and the Jewish world, and never less of it worth trusting. Our Arc Plus members are what let us have these conversations honestly without pulling punches or censoring any of our amazing jokes. Join Arc Plus at arcmedia.org. [Instrumental music plays] You are listening to an Arc Media podcast. I'm talking to two leading journalists of, uh, Israel. Is it true that Golda Meir cheated on her husband? She had affairs?

0:31 Okay, look, I, I, I need to- I need to know... no, I need to call her and to, to actually get her comment before I can actually report the full details. [laughs] Well, how did she have time? Where did she have time to have an affair? I find that deeply offensive, Chayele. Are you in Florida or something, Chayele? [laughs] Have you ever listened to our podcast?

0:51 [laughs] [upbeat music] Hi, welcome to Chosen People Problems, where a secular sinful Israeli speaks to her wholly religious friend. I'm Yael, here with Chayele. We have a very, very exciting interview for you with Amit Segal and Nadav Eyal. Um, but I think, I think people are gonna like it. There's gonna be a lot of talk about the Israeli election.

1:16 If you don't understand- Yeah... what's going on, they're gonna help untangle it. Mm. But first, how are you? Let's catch up. We just saw each other in Cleveland. Yes. Did anything exciting happen? That was so... I can't believe that was, like, less than a week ago. Crazy. I know, 'cause your son got married. My son got married. Wow. My oldest son. Um, I just, it's so weird.

1:35 I was telling someone yesterday that I was standing under the chuppah, and it's supposed to be, like, a very holy spiritual time. It is- Mm-hmm... a very holy spiritual time, and the entire time I was like, "What is happening? How is this happening?" I kept looking at my son, and I'm like- Mm... "Is this really happening right now?"

1:50 [laughs] "How is this kid getting married?" I just kept looking at him- Aw... and thinking like, "How is Shmuely getting married right now?" So, um- He's a baby... yeah. I mean, he's not really- Um, well-... a baby, but he's my baby... I, I can recap the wedding for our listeners. Okay, let's hear... I wanna hear what you say about it. Okay. Let's see. So, let's see.

2:06 So it started with me boarding a plane in LaGuardia- Oh, my God. [laughs]... and asking every single religious person on the plane, "Hi, are you related to Chayele?" [laughs] And they all were. Oh, my God. [laughs] Uh, [laughs] in fact, I asked your uncle, who I didn't know was your uncle. Yeah. And again, like, y- you have to, you have to imagine, like, the Haredi, like- Yeah... beard and the black suit and everything.

2:29 [laughs] And me coming up to him and being like, "Hi, are you going to the wedding?" [laughs] And he looks at me and he's like, "Why else would I be going to Cleveland?" [laughs] So- That is so funny... that's how it started for me, and then it ended with me in a, in multiple group chats with members- Oh, yeah... of your family now. [laughs] So [laughs] it was very, very productive, uh- That's so funny...

2:49 for me in terms of infiltrating your, your family. That's true. But- That is true... it was super, super lovely. It was really- Yeah... nice and it was really- Did you have fun?... fun. Yeah, good. It was fun, yeah. It was, like, dancing and music and- Yeah... a, a lot of people asked me about, you know, that men and women are separated- Yeah, yeah... in the dancing, but it's not like... Like, there's a bar.

3:08 Everybody hangs out at the bar. Right, right. It's not like you don't hang out. You just, maybe you don't, like, do the Macarena together. Right, right. Exactly. Right? No, I mean, it was really fun. It w- I was obviously very nervous, um, but I was able to enjoy it. I was- Mm-hmm... I w- I really wanted to enjoy it, you know? I didn't wanna be so nervous the whole time that I couldn't, like, take it in. Um- Yeah...

3:31 the thing that I felt really, like, a lot was just this overwhelming feeling of gratitude. Firstly, like, I felt a lot of gratitude to Hashem the whole day. I was like, "Thank you for all the blessings. Thank you for all..." Like, I just kept saying that over and over again. Um, but also, like, this overwhelming gratitude to my family and friends.

3:47 I, we had so many people fly in, and seeing e- the collection of people, you know, u- under one roof, it's just, it's really overwhelming, like, to know that people love you and care about you and will come to Cleveland and... I just, it was, that was really special, and I, I, I never thought about it so much, like, from the other side. Like, I go to people's weddings or I go to, you know- Mm-hmm... I travel for things.

4:09 You don't realize what it means to the hosts, you know? Yeah. And, um, that was really special. Um, I felt like a kid, which I th- always assumed that by the time my child would get married, I would feel like an adult. Hmm. You know, 'cause I looked at other people marrying off kids and I'm like, "Oh, they must feel-" Yeah, they're adults... you know, like an adult, and I felt like a kid.

4:29 I kept looking at my parents thinking that they were the parents. Hmm. So there was, like, a lot of that in my head. Um, but it was really fun and I really, really appreciated everyone that came and my in- the in-laws, my son's in-laws are the nicest people. We couldn't have asked for nicer machatanim. That's a, a good word.

4:46 Everyone should know machatanim. There's no English word for it, which is so annoying, 'cause machatanim are your- In-laws? Well, y- they're your child's in-laws. They're not my in-laws- Hmm... right? They're my child's in-laws. Yeah. And so it's just a good word, machatanim. It w- it was really lovely, and they, they're an absolutely lovely family. Yeah, yeah. Um, and you have a lovely family- Thank God...

5:06 and it was fun to hang out with your, your parents- Yeah... and your brothers. Yeah. I have a favorite brother now. [laughs] I'm not gonna say who. Um, but out of your brothers, I have a favorite brother. That's nice. Um, and it was fun and it w- and it's hard, I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but it, it's, it's a hard thing to explain that experience to a secular- Right, right...

5:24 Israeli because it is something that, in Israel, we have our guard up when we see a lot of, uh, religious- Yeah... uh, ceremonies. Uh, and we see, you know, e- even, like, the, the singing- Mm-hmm... and the praying, which was very, very beautiful, but i- if you kind of show it to a, a secular Israeli, it, it might inspire some, like, caution in them, right? Right.

5:48 Because we're, we have so much of this, this conflict. Right. Uh, and it was nice to be able to experience that without any of the politics and actually enjoy it. I think that's a really good point. I mean, it's a good bridge, I think, for people to just see us as regular human beings, you know, and r- to see each other as regular human beings, and it was a very joyful moment and- I think for me, like, a big part of it is that Shmuely is my oldest. He's the oldest grandchild.

6:15 He's named after my grandfather, who was a Holocaust survivor, and so he's, like, the next generation, you know, building a Jewish home- Yeah... and, like, and it's, uh, you know, I, I... One of the things that was hard is, like, looking around and thinking, like, there's so many people that need, need this, and need blessings, and want this, and, you know, how do I...

6:34 How can I feel so good about it when, you know, there are so many people who wish they had this? And I struggled with that. It was, like, a really... It was hard in a way, you know? Um, but I, I just kept thinking to myself, like, we got to that point because we made a lot of choices along the way, right?

6:49 The way we educated our kids, the way we raised them, the way we instilled the values that, you know, we instilled in, in, in our boys, and there was never a question of Shmuely wanting to get married young. He's 24 years old, and it was like, "Okay, it's time," right? And it was never a question about finding a Chabad girl, right, from a Chabad family. Mm.

7:10 And there was never a question about them having a matchmaker set them up, and a short engagement, and a, a wedding, and, you know, a big wedding. All of this is just because of the way we raised him from the day he was born. But, uh, do you have kids in your community, like Chabad kids, who don't wanna do this? I mean, few and far between, I would say.

7:29 Even if the kids are- Mm-hmm... like, more modern and, you know, maybe a little bit less religious, most of them want to get married. It's part of the culture. What are you happy... What are you the most happy that is over now? I was really stressed out. I, I know this is so sad to say, but, like, I was really stressed out about how I was gonna look, and I was upset at myself the whole time- Mm...

7:50 about that because I honestly don't care. Aw. Like, a part of me doesn't care, right? And a part of me was like, "I'm not making this about how I look. It doesn't matter. This is about the marriage, and the party, and the friends." But there's so much external pressure, I think, on, like, how we look that it really made me sad that I was so stressed about it, and I'm jealous.

8:13 I'm actually jealous of Israeli weddings where, like, everyone shows up in, like, a white button down shirt and khakis, and, like, no one really cares. Like, you know what I mean? Mm. There's a certain casualness, um, at, like, especially the more dati leumi parts of Israel that, like... Or even secular. I think, like, people come in jeans to weddings. Yeah. Although women are always- Yeah, I guess...

8:34 you know, w- women are always concerned, and they're probably always unhappy or unsatisfied with- Yeah. I mean, I felt good. I felt like I looked fine. I just wish I didn't care. Like, I, I si- Mm. 'Cause I, I do this thing- Well, you looked great. Thank you. And the dress was great. I- And the hair was on fire. My wig, yeah, I have a new wig. I wanted to look like myself at the end of the day.

8:50 I didn't want people to see me and be like, "Who is that?" I mean, you know, I know- Mm... so many people confuse me with, like, Giselle, so, like, I, I knew it was a possibility. But, like, you know what I mean. Like, when I had my makeup done, I was like, "Wait, do I look like a clown, or do I look normal?" You know? Like, it was important to me, so I don't know.

9:09 I w- I will say there are some women in the, in, in your community that are s- looked- I know... so hot- Gor- my friends, I know... in, in the modest gear. I know. But it's interesting 'cause you, you'd think, like, you know, it, it's hard to look, like, really... I'm not saying, like, beautiful. Yeah. I'm saying hot- Yeah... like, specifically. Like, attractive.

9:26 Um, but wearing, you know, like, their neckline up to- Yeah... up to here- That sleeves, yeah... and no shoulders or anything- Yeah... and- It's true... they're rocking it. And also, like, the disparity between what men and women have to go through to get dressed up is- Mm... so unfair. The wig is helpful. We also have to do our hair. But a wig is annoying.

9:42 And then, like, all the undergarments. Mm. I mean, it's just a lot. [laughs] And the heels. I mean, wearing high heels- Oh my God, the heels, can I tell you, I wore, I wore these heels that I don't normally wear. It's been a week now. Yeah. I'm still, like, not... I'm still massaging my foot- [laughs]... 'cause I actually hurt it- I'm so sorry... for your wedding.

9:58 You should have asked my brother-in-law, that's a podiatrist- But I took my shoes off at some point... to help you, who you make fun of all the time. But you should have asked him. Yeah. Maybe I'll go see a real foot doctor. Thank God it's over. They should have a happy, joyful life together, and- B'ezrat Hashem. I can't wait till they invite me to, uh- They will... shabbat dinner. They will, for sure.

10:16 Yeah, of course. Will they? Can it just be the three of us? No. Me and them. No, you're gonna ask them the most inappropriate questions. [laughs] Oh, I'm gonna do that if there are people there anyway, so. That's true. [laughs] Um, no, and I wanna say one message. Like, and this is... I'm not trying to say this to be preachy. I'm saying this 'cause I really feel this way. Oh, no.

10:32 Everyone should try to set up their friends and family with people. Oh my God. Everyone. I don't care. Just try. If you know a single person, try to set them up. Don't be like, "Oh, I'm not a matchmaker. Oh, who am I?" Just try, okay? That's all I'm asking. Yeah, but don't, uh, don't set up somebody just because they're single and the other person's single. No. Okay, have a brain, but, like, try to make an effort.

10:55 No, you, you'd be surprised the people that, that somebody, that some people send my way. I know. You never know. [laughs] Sometimes no. Yeah, El's getting pissed at me right now. [laughs] Yeah, El, I know a guy. He's 51. Sounds perfect for you. He's- Yeah, he's, he's also single. He's, he's about to get out of jail. You two would get along perfectly. When he gets out, I'm gonna- What was he in for? Oh, good question.

11:17 That's a, that's a good question. Yeah. It depends. Like, tax fraud or- [laughs]... or sexual assault? It's a big difference. Anyway, I, uh, I, um, wish, wish everybody to find their spouse. B'ezrat Hashem. B'ezrat Hashem. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with, uh, Amit and Nadav. We've waited a long time for this day.

11:36 It's, this is coming out a week before the elections, and, in Israel, um, and there's a lot of confusion around it, and there's a lot of questions, and I think a lot of American Jews, including myself, don't quite always understand all of the different elements. Um, so try to read as much as you can this week, and try to- No, don't read. Just listen to this episode- Well, but s- after you listen to this episode... and you'll be fine. Also read- I know... Amit and Nadav.

11:59 And you'll have a lot of things from the episode that you can listen to- Yeah... that you'll be able to- Yeah... sound smart when you repeat them. Yeah, and- Not from us... but really, Amit and Nadav have a lot of great content, and I read both of their pieces that were, uh, were came out today, and it just makes you sound smarter. You understand things better, so I wanna encourage that.

12:18 Yeah, and what, the thing is with Israeli elections, the more you know- [laughs]... the less you know. But you'll definitely be smarter. One thing I know is that Yael and I are not running, so don't vote for us, but maybe next time. Yeah, not this year. Yeah, maybe next time. All right. We'll be, we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back with Amit Segal and Nadav Eyal. Here's a Chosen People problem we can actually solve. Finally, because we're not doing anti-Semitism today. No, I'm over it.

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13:42 We have two colleagues here. We have two colleagues. [laughs] Hileah. We're, we're... They're our colleagues. We're, we're practically all the same. Yael has waited four years to say this- [laughs]... so I'm so happy for you. I am so happy for you. Amit Segal of Channel 12 in Israel, Nadav Eyal of Yediot Aharonot. You know them both from Call Me Back.

13:59 Uh, between the two of them you can learn everything you need to know about Israeli politics, which is great because there's a lot to know. That's why we have a special, uh, seven-hour episode- [laughs]... planned for you guys. Uh, thank you so much for being here, guys. Thanks for having us. Thanks. Uh, this is gonna be a little different than what you do with Dan. I'm just saying. Okay. You can, like, relax.

14:17 In what sense? Much more serious? Yeah, much more. Much more serious. Much more in depth. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. [laughs] Uh, you can have a, have a beer or something. I don't know, like, chill. Nobody listens to this, so don't worry about anybody, you know, quoting you. More of a progressive point of view? Oh, yes. [laughs] Please. More of a AOC kind of thing.

14:35 This is what I was thinking- Well, I actually think- But you can speak... I actually think it's kind of Yael and Nadav versus Amit and Hileah here. Wow. Really? Which is good, 'cause we're the- Oh my God... funny Tel Aviviim, and you know, Amit and Hileah are more on the, like, conservative right. Wow. So we can do, uh, you know, we can switch it up. Why?

14:52 Are you assuming just 'cause Amit wears a yarmulke, you put him in my category? Well, I've- Maybe-... I've heard a, a thing or two that he has to say. Oh, I- So... [laughs]... maybe I agree with Nadav more. You don't know. Oh. [laughs] Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. [laughs] It depends. It depends. Exactly. Chabad and, Chabad and... Yeah, I- I'll leave it to you to, to decide, okay? Exactly. [laughs] Exactly. Chabad- So-...

15:14 is interesting in the voting, by the way. It doesn't always go with, uh, everybody else on the Haredi world, but just, I'm just saying. Oh, really? Of course. Putting it out there. Yeah. Chabad has its own, own system of voting. But anyway- They vote for Moshiach. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. How did you two meet? You've known each other for a long time, right? Yeah. What's your origin?

15:34 How long have you been dating? We met in "" in the army radio. Just 26 years. Oh. Not more than this. Wow. You were both in the army radio together? Yeah, we fought- Did you like... Did you... Were you friends? We... No, Amit is, uh, is much younger than, uh, than I am. Three years. We were... It's like my, uh, the settlement where I grew up, when someone...

15:52 I, I mean, my, my mother always says, "No, they're new," because they arrived three days after the settlement was established. So- Yeah. [laughs] So they're new. Um, yes. We were brothers in arms. Wow. Brothers in arms in "" that's- Brothers in mic- microphones... you know, you went to get hummus together. Absolutely. Yeah. Did you carry... Did you have rifles when you were in the army?

16:11 Like- Okay, Amit didn't have a rifle- No, we were in ""... but I, I was- You were my commander... a, a West Bank corres- No, you were my commander. I was a West Bank correspondent. Really? Sorry? When... Okay. You were his commander? No. Once in two weeks you have to actually guard the radio station, okay? So you have a staff of four, two, uh, male soldiers and two female soldiers, and an, an officer. So Nadav was the officer.

16:38 And the instructions were as follows: if something really urgent happens, if someone really tries to enter the radio station and to kidnap everyone, to kill everyone, we must actually, uh, run into a, a safe room and make a phones calling the real army to save us. [laughs] [laughs] By the way, I was, I was never... I, I served in Jerusalem. I was never an officer. No way. I never was part of the- " Of, of the- I tell you, you were my, uh, officer. No. I, I tell you- No, you were.

17:13 Nadav- I was- This, this is happening... but I let, I let Amit tell the story, but I served- Tell it from your point of view... most of, most of... I served in the, in Jerusalem most of the, that time. [laughs] Uh, Amit actually did too, too- Yes... but I was a West Bank correspondent, and that meant- Oh... that I walked around with an M16, an AR-15 in American language- Wow. Wow... in most of my service. Um- Wow...

17:39 and by the way, in a, in a strange occurrence of events, because I was, uh, covering Judea and Samaria, uh, there was at least one instance in which I, uh... You know, there were settlers, uh, led by Daniella Weiss, a very famous- Mm-hmm. Yeah... a very famous leader- Famous settler... of the settlement movement. Uh, very fierce, uh, quite extreme, and they didn't want to evacuate. Mm.

18:06 And at a certain point, the IDF wasn't there, and I was there as a journalist, as a military journalist, but they said, "You're armed, so it's your job now to secure us." Oh my God. [laughs] Oh my God. So I, I... It's a true story. It, it was during the Y Plantation withdrawals. It was in a place- Oh... called Nahal Te'anim.... fig stream in this, in, uh, Samaria. And then Daniella Weiss said, "It's your job.

18:35 You're a soldier" [laughs] "Now you secure us." And I secured them. You know, the, there were a lot of Palestinians around. They felt unsecure, but they, insecure, but they didn't want to evacuate with the IDF. So- Did the, did the Palestinians know that they, they were guarded by a Galetz soldier, by a radio soldier? [laughs] Eh, the Palestinians weren't interested in them.

18:54 They knew that the IDF, back then it was a different time. Israel actually enforced its rules in the West Bank. [laughs] Wow. So it was a fantastic invention. So the Palestinians were looking at it. Daniella Weiss, by the way, to her credit, wasn't interfering with them picking up the olives or doing anything like that personally. She wasn't doing that. She was just there for the fame.

19:16 And they were waiting for the IDF to come and evacuate what they saw as a part, as, as a party of, uh, loonies- Mm... that were there. And indeed, the IDF came, searched the entire river- Oh my God... found Daniella Weiss and eight more women that were, decided that they would not evacuate, and evacuated them- Oh... not forcibly. So it can be done. And that was the end of the story. Wow. It can be done. Oh, yeah.

19:42 Amit, did you have a gun? Um, no, I was just happy to see a microphone. Um- [laughs] No, I'm kidding. Uh, uh, every once in a while, but not, I mean, uh, thank God I, I, uh, didn't have to use it. Um- Mm... so only in the, uh- Yeah... basic training, but, but not more than this. Mm-hmm. Well, thank God. My nephew is a lone soldier from LA, who's in the army now, and he's very tall, and he has the big gun.

20:10 You know, they have, like, one- Sure... major gun in the unit. The long gun. And he has to schlep it around. I mean, poor guy. It's, it's really hard. It's not simple. He loves it. He loves it, but it's very, very hard. He was- The girls, the girls love it, too. Yeah, [laughs] that's true. I don't know if the girls, the g- the girls love the Galetz boys. I don't know.

20:27 'Cause Galetz, if people don't know, the army radio, it's not combat, so we make fun of them for being not combat. That's not me. No. But it's also, like- Wow... very, very high status. Like, it's kind of the, the LaGuardia High School, like the fame. Mm-hmm. Everybody becomes famous after. So, so Nadav had- Wow...

20:42 because no one wants IDF soldiers, so Nadav had to marry an IDF soldier, a female IDF soldier, uh, herself. From Galetz. [laughs] The best one in her, in her year, but n- but, you know, nonetheless. [laughs] Okay. So what are, what... American Jews don't know what's going on. They want to. They care a lot about this election.

21:03 They really, really wish they could talk about it intelligently, but it's very confusing and hard for American Jews to understand what's happening in Israeli politics. We're a week out from the election. So let's start with just basics. Where are we, and who's winning? Who's winning? Yeah. Who's gonna win next week? Let's start. It's an easy one. [laughs] So, uh, Amit knows who's gonna win. I'm gonna just, uh, uh, you know, allow him to say that in a couple of minutes. Uh, I don't know who's gonna win. Um, what's happening right now is really simple. It's been the case for the last few weeks.

21:41 Uh, it's obvious that according to every poll, including, by the way, recently by the polls that are very much associated with the Prime Minister in the last three days, they sort of corroborated themselves with other polls. They're saying he doesn't hold the majority in the Knesset- Mm... according to these polls, which are, of course, true for today. Mm-hmm. He doesn't hold a majority in the Knesset.

22:03 Explain what a majority is for people who need to know. Sorry? A 61 out of 120. Mm. In order to form a government. Uh, you don't need to, to have 61 to form a government. You do need a 61 to form a stable government. Okay. [laughs] Uh, you- Stable is stable... you, you need a, a majority in the Knesset when you actually take it to the vote of the Knesset, so you need other people to abstain and not vote against you.

22:27 But you don't need, according to Israeli law, you don't need a 61 to form a government. Mm. Um, but a good trick there of the Israeli law is that you, you don't need a 61 to form a government, but you do need a 61 to, to disintegrate the government. Mm. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's an interesting, uh, trick. Anyway, uh, Netanyahu doesn't hold a, a majority according to these, uh, to these polls.

22:51 Uh, but Eisenkot doesn't have enough seats in a homogeneous coalition to actually form a government himself if he, if all members of that coalition just hold up to their promises. Mm. He just doesn't have that coalition. Mm-hmm. So Netanyahu, according to these polls, is losing, but Eisenkot, according to these polls, isn't winning. Mm. What I've just said has been true for the past at least six weeks and has not changed, uh, at all.

23:22 Wow. Hm. Do you think people know, I mean, do you think there are still people right now, and, and, Amit, the question for you as well, who still don't know who they're voting for? Um, within the blocs. It's, it's- Mm... it's like, um, it's like, uh, primaries and general election combined on the same ticket. Because in Israel- Right...

23:43 you can, you know, you can vote for five different parties and yet support somehow Benjamin Netanyahu for prime minister or- Mm-hmm... four different parties on the other side and still support Eisenkot. So it doesn't really matter. I mean, yes, we do have swing voters. But as long as they, I don't know, have hard times to decide between Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, it doesn't really change the, you know, the, the broader picture. Hm.

24:08 And I, I know it's quite complicated because every time we start explaining it to Americans, the, the first sentence is, "Uh, the story is very simple." And then after 40 seconds, you see this foggy look on the, [laughs] on the faces of Americans- [laughs]... because it's really complicated, and they're losing the, the, the thread of the whole plot. So I- Mm... I just want to put it as simple as that.

24:36 You asked who's gonna win, and I think we should ask, is there going to be a winner? Right. There is an option, I would say, as Nadav just de-... described, um, more than 50% that we will not have a winner, um, after this, uh, round of election. Mm-hmm. And I'm quite sure that on the night of October 27th, we will not have a winner.

25:02 So it's not too close to call, it's too early to call. And I'll explain. It's not that it's 60/60 and we're waiting for, you know, to, to count the, um, the vote by- Kolot hayamim... mail abroad. Exactly. Kolot hachayalim, as we say. Um, um, in order to, to, to know who, who, who gets 61. No. Mm-hmm.

25:22 It's, it's the exact same moment in which it, it moves from the decision of 10 million voters, seven million voters in the Israeli case, to 120, which will have to break at least two or three very important election pledges in order to even be remotely close to the ability to form a coalition. Because- Mm...

25:45 if you take a look at the polls and you combine it with the election pledges of the, of every, of the actors, you get into conclusion, a conclusion that w- Israel is going to the polls again around March or April 2027. Mm. Mm. So all the people buying tickets now have to, to go vote- [laughs]... in Israel will have to come again. I, I would say fly business and then- [laughs]...

26:08 the miles will actually pay your economy flight on, in, in April. [laughs] Wait, can I ask you guys about that? 'Cause I'm curious. I, I... A lot of Israelis... Yeah, about business. [laughs] Yeah. Wait, Dan, Dan pays for you to fly business, right? Um, about business, uh, class, you'll ask me to ask only Amit about these things. Uh, I, I focus on more kind of trivial, kind of flying coach. [laughs] Okay.

26:32 How long were you at Arc Media before you started flying business? That's my que- No. [laughs] Um, how do you feel about Ameri- uh, American Israelis going back to Israel to vote? Do you have an opinion on that? 'Cause I- Let's, uh-... I feel... I find myself being a little, like, funny about it. Like, you get to live in Long Beach, California, and you're gonna fly there to decide or help decide. It's a bit funny, no?

26:55 Depen- depends who. So I'll just- Uh- Yeah, I... Well- No, no. Yes, please. Well, look, I think that if people hold strong connections to Israel, still have a citizenship, uh, to some extent pay their taxes- Mm-hmm... definitely if they are on two or three-year stints in the US, because, uh- Yeah... their, uh, you know, their corporations send them to the US and there is a, a large portion that, that has that, uh, they should go, go and vote, uh, if they have a strong opinion about that.

27:28 And by the way, I, I think the same if it's, uh, right-wingers or left-wingers. The, the question there is, why are you voting? Why are you voting? Are you voting because you think that this will save the only Jewish state in the world? Mm. If you think that and you're an Israeli citizen with Israeli obligations and you wanna g- come and invest your money, we, we should remind people listening to us, not everybody knows that, that unlike Americans, they can't vote in embassies, right?

27:57 They need to vote- Mm-hmm... in the country. They need to make that investment. If they feel so strongly about it, I, I'm, I'm all for it. If you're gonna travel and vote because you wanna have, uh, your part of the population get, um, you know, specific benefits, or you think, uh, uh, a Eisenkot government will give you a tax break- Mm-hmm...

28:16 that's the reason you're gonna vote- Mm... well, I don't like that. I, I- Right... you know, I, I'm not there. Yeah. But if you think that this is... If Netanyahu isn't elected, the, the country's gone, or if Netanyahu is elected, the country's gone- Mm-hmm... absolutely, buy that flight ticket. You should go. I, I'm invested in that as an Israeli.

28:34 I want these people to be as involved, uh, as possible. Mm-hmm. That's interesting. It's my dream that people start voting based on whether or not they'll get tax breaks in Israel. [laughs] Like, that would be- My dream too... th- those would be really nice days. Yeah. Really? All the Haredim, that's what you want? Yeah. [laughs] Okay. I mean, fine, if that's your dream, great.

28:53 Maybe- Hey, Chaya'leh- Maybe never mind... Haredim, uh, unfortunately in Israel, most of them in Israel- Yeah, true... don't need tax breaks because unfortunately the society is so poor, they don't, uh, get to the benchmark of paying taxes, and I'm saying this really unfortunately. No, it's true. It's true. You're right. You're right.

29:10 So, uh, I h- I once had an idea about having a, a second chamber, a chamber, uh, for the Israeli Knesset, like, you know, the, the House and, and its- and Senate, uh, and to have it with a, a representation, a proportional representation of, uh, the, uh, world jury. Let's say that- Wow... the US might have 40%, and Russia 12, and, uh- Mm-hmm... France 2%- Wow... et cetera. So I'm all for involvement of Jews from abroad in, in what's happening in Israel.

29:45 Actually, that was the tragedy prior to October 7th, that no one really cared, or that it was, it was more like, you know, a family, the fifth g- generation of a family that no one even knows the names of his second cousin's third removed- Oh... or something like this. Mm. Mm. However, having said that, I'm not sure this is the motive, uh, for the vote. What I can't stand is those who threaten to leave Israel if their camp loses the election.

30:18 I don't live in Israel, you know, based on s- assumptions, save the assumption that it's my only country. And the second thing is people that actually vote while, while not living here permanently. Mm. Nadav lived in, in, in, in London, and so did I, and Nadav lives now in, in, in, in New York, but there is no doubt he's going to return to Israel. Yeah. He writes for Yedioth Ahronoth. Right. I worked for Channel 12.

30:44 It, it was quite clear that w- we're just on relocation, but not a permanent one. If you are on a permanent, uh, relocation- Uh, I think, uh, there is something not immoral, th- there is something awkward about coming and voting for in a, in, in a, in a foreign country. Uh, my mother is a, uh, is an American citizen. She made Aliyah in 1973 when President Nixon was still around. I don't think she bothered to vote even a single time. And it doesn't- Right...

31:15 really make any, any sense that she might try to influence who's going, who's gonna be the next mayor of Los Angeles. Mm. However, I think, I think this, uh, phenomenon is, uh, really exaggerated. I mean, it's, it- it's covered disproportionately. Um, I'll, I'll just give you an example. The, the number of flights arriving in Israel between October 20th and October 27th is exactly the same that was last year.

31:41 I would say there- Mm... are maybe 2,000, 3,000 more voters than, than in the past. It's not something which is statistically significant. Unless, uh, uh, liberal Israelis actually did what the plumber on Flydubai flight did and just took over the flight- [laughs]... um, from all of the conservative presence there. But I highly doubt it. Well, my, my...

32:05 I guess I have a question maybe, maybe Nadav, I'm curious what you think about this. Uh, you know, it's not, I'm, I don't... It's no secret who I wanna win this election. Um, and- Ben-Gvir?... my concern- Ben-Gvir. Ben-Gvir. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 'Cause, uh, not because of his opinions, because he's so attractive. [laughs] I know. I know. I just, I, I, I really like the look.

32:23 But it's really, really hard to, to, to, to, to actually focus on what he's saying rather than his look. [laughs] Yeah, 'cause he's so charming. Yeah. Exactly. It's like I don't hear a word he says beyond the- Oh, my God. I know... his beautiful eyes. Uh, no, but my concern, 'cause I hear a lot, like, you know, every election you hear people say they're gonna leave, and I don't think...

32:41 You know, as somebody who actually lives abroad, I, I always tell people who say they wanna leave, like, "You know, don't, don't think that you're everywhere else in the world is functional," right? Right. Like, I worked for the City of New York for many years. I can tell you a lot about dysfunction, and it's not an Isra- dysfunction is not an Israeli invention.

32:56 Um, but my concern is if, if Netanyahu wins, and let's say forms another, you know, similar government, uh, where we look like we're heading in the same direction, do you think people will give up the fight? Do you think people will just be, "You know what? I'm, I'm checking out. Not gonna send my kids to elite units in the IDF. Just gonna, like, try to..."

33:17 You know, are people gonna kind of lose that, that, that patriotism, that resistance patriotism, let's say? Yeah. Well, I, I listen to what Amit, uh, uh, is saying, and there is a sea of difference in that regard. Really, uh, I see the difference between, um, people who either grew up Orthodox or are Orthodox, and between, like, secular Israelis a few generations as to Israel and, uh...

33:44 Um, and, and there's a famous, uh, a distinction, um, between, um... I'm gonna say it in Hebrew and maybe try to translate. Uh, uh, Brit Yehud and Brit Goral. Um, how, how will we translate this? Uh- Mm... the covenant of your fate and the covenant of your mission. And, uh- Mm. That's a g- that's a good translation...

34:10 uh, m- the mission, the, the, the, the idea of religious Zionism to a c- to a certain, uh, degree is, of course, a covenant of the fate. It's your fate to be in Eretz Israel, okay? The, it's the r- the beginning of our salvation. Uh, Reshit t'hilat geulateinu. Uh, the Zionists, and I heard this from longtime Zionists, I heard that m- b- years before Netanyahu.

34:37 I heard that from the friends of my grandparents who were in the Palmach, who were in the fighting force for the establishment of the state, and they were the total majority, not the Orthodox Zionists. Mm. They were the total. They were the mainstream, uh, uh, in the foundation, the Founding Fathers. Most of them, okay? Not all of them, but most of them were this kind of secular.

34:58 They always said, "Look, this is, um, we, we are trying to build here a project that will be democratic, be Jewish... First of all, Jewish, democratic. Uh, it will be a light upon nations. Uh, but have no doubt, we're, we're not gonna... You know, we're not in it, like, forever." It's, it's a very Jewish notion, by the way. Right. We're in it because we believe in it, but we can- Mm-hmm...

35:23 also not believe in it. Right. So to your question, Yael, of course, it will happen. Now, will it happen to the majority of Israeli secular, uh, center left? I don't know. I, I guess not, because it never happens to the majority, but we're seeing migration out of Israel. The migration is substantial. Uh, almost 200,000 people. That's, that's, uh, 2%. Where are they going?

35:47 Uh, they're going to the US, and they're going to Europe and Canada. And, uh- Okay. Well, the Europe ones- You know-... are gonna come back, so. [laughs] No, I'm not, I'm not sure because many of them, for instance, are, like, medical, uh, professionals. They're getting now the jobs and the position. It was a...

36:02 It's always better to these professionals to live abroad- Right... in terms of the, the conditions that they get, the salaries that they get, what we call Sira Basar. The Zionism always called it, like, uh, from the Aggadah Passover of Pesach. Yeah. Uh, to sit on the, on, on Sira Basar, you know, in the diaspora, you enjoy- Haela, do you like how Nadav is throwing out all these Jewish references for you? I do. It is. It's, uh, for Haela to translate- It's amazing...

36:27 but Haela isn't translating. She's, like, sitting there and saying- [laughs]... "You deal with that. You deal with that." I want you to deal with it. Exactly. You were raised it. [laughs] Uh, anyway, uh, the bottom line here is very simple. There are large chunks of the Israeli society that absolutely will say, "If this is another Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, ultra-Orthodox government, we're out." They're already saying that.

36:48 Everything Yael spoke about is already happening, including the elite units. Mm. It's already happening. Everybody knows it's happening. I see this. Mm-hmm. I see this with my friends, friends that are already abroad. So this is happening, and it's going to become stronger and stronger- Mm-hmm... and powerful.

37:04 And there's a professor in Israel, Dan Ben-David from Tel Aviv University, who says 300,000 people who sustain this country, uh, if half of them are gone, it's over. I don't know if that's true. Uh, prophecies of doom, you know, it's, it's the case mainly for elites everywhere in the world as to their countries. You sit- Wow... with the Dutch elite, they're saying the Netherlands are gone, over. Finished, right.

37:28 It's destroyed. So but, but yeah, uh, to your question, Yael, it's a real thing, and I fear that if that will happen, it will have substantial... I'm not justifying or not justifying it right now. I'm just observing that within the center left, it's a real thing. Hmm. We'll be right back. Here's a chosen people problem we can actually solve. Finally, because we're not doing antisemitism today. No, I'm over it.

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38:30 You keep independent Jewish media going, and we get to keep doing whatever this is. Join Arc Plus. It's good for the Jews. Is it? I don't know, but it's definitely good for us. And we're back with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal. Amit, can I ask you about the religious parts in Israel? 'Cause one of the things that we hear a lot here in America is there's a lot of fighting between the national religious people who are extremely angry at the Haredim. Is that true? Do you see that?

39:01 Is it a real thing after October 7th? Yeah, it's part of the question. Um, the discourses in, in Israel consists of three elements. Two are, you know, international, and one is unique to Israel. The two international ones are economy and identity. We can actually describe, uh, politics in the US, in the UK, in France of course, what we're seeing, uh, now as we speak- Mm-hmm... is identity politics and economy.

39:32 In Israel, it's the security, stupid, uh, like the legendary 1992, uh, saying by James Carville, Bill Clinton's, um, strategic advisor. Here's the thing. The Haredi question touches the center, the hub of those three questions simultaneously. It deals with security because, uh, Israel is disillusioned with the sentiment that it can actually go on with an, with an army that does not recruit 50% of, of, of, uh, of its, uh, of the country's youngsters.

40:10 Second, it's about economy because the historic arrangement between the country and the state and, and, and the sector actually said you do not go to the army, and therefore you are not allowed to work. So it's like the country, the, the country punishing itself because then you see that the, the, the main barrier, the main obstacle for Israel to be a real first world economy is the lack of participation in the workforce from Haredi males.

40:43 And the third thing is the identity because there is a fear. I think this is what really drove the, uh, judicial reform protests, um, a real fear within secular Israel that the country is going to be another shtetl, this time with a nuclear weapon, or another failing religious, uh, country in the Middle East.

41:07 And the number one reason for them to worry is the, is the fertility rate of ultra-Orthodox families, six children on average per family. So I would, I personally think that the, the worst way to actually deal with the problem is by focusing on the army. I cannot force you if you, if, if you, if you were not educated on the idea that serving in the IDF is a mitzvah- Mm... there is no way...

41:38 Or, or, or to put it, to put it even more bluntly, if you were raised on the idea that serving in the IDF is a sin- Mm-hmm... there is no way I can actually talk you into serving in, in elite, uh, commando units within two years. But since you are a human being, so you're exposed to financial, uh, incentives and disincentives, and that's why I think Israelis should focus on the economy because they can change neither the identity nor the security through, uh, putting more power.

42:12 But the economy can actually be the, the, um... It can actually create the ripple effect on the entire society. That's really... I really appreciate that. It's interesting. But in- incentives are not, i- incentives are not the reason Israelis at 6:30 AM on October 7th kind of put on their flip-flops and, and drove to the south to save- Unfortunately-... other Israelis...

42:33 let's admit the facts. Mm-hmm. Um, and neither, neither, uh, was the lack of participants of, um, ultra-Orthodox, uh, um, soldiers in, in, in the, in the Gaza Envelope. The, the reason there has been, there had been only 700 soldiers in the entire area on October 7th wasn't- Because there were, there weren't enough soldiers be- but because the idea prior to October 7th was that there is no need in this, you know, in this, uh, uh, a, a military unit called soldier, a human soldier, in order to actually prevent invasions or, uh, security, uh, uh, threats.

43:16 The idea was that, that technology and, uh, cyber and fences can actually, uh, deter our enemies. And, um, that's why in my opinion, uh, the IDF failed to understand how crucial is the participant, uh, participation of the ultra-Orthodox sector in the army. Why? Because the idea back then if technology prevails, an ultra-Orthodox soldier is a problem to the IDF of, of 2021 and 2022 and 2023. Why?

43:47 Because they get married earlier, they need a, a special food with a, a special kosher certificate. Every time they come across a woman constitutes a problem either for the ultra-Orthodox- Mm-hmm... or for the progress of women within the IDF- Mm... or all of the above. So the idea was, okay, we, in principle we want everyone to serve in the army. In practice, we don't. Mm.

44:11 And this is something that changed on October 8th. Yeah. Nadav, do you agree with that, with what Amit's saying about how the economy should be the focus when it comes to dealing with the ultra-Orthodox? Or do you c- does it piss you off about the army more than anything? Um, I think it's about, uh, it's, it's about the entire Israeli society and being part of the society.

44:33 And I thi- I, I agree with Amit that the economy is really important. Uh, I think we have come into a position in which, uh, the truth is that the ultra-Orthodox have become such a, an important part, demographically speaking, of the Israeli society, whether one's like, would like it or doesn't, that they need to participate and share the burden.

44:57 So it's, it's not about the principal issue of equality, which of course is really important as of itself. That means that, um, I have a son, um, in, uh, five years he's gonna go to the army, and, uh, might go to a combat unit then. I, I need to worry that he might not return. Uh, someone my age has a son who's gonna be bar mitzvah soon. Uh, five years from now he doesn't need to worry because he lives in Bnei Brak. Mm. Why? Mm-hmm. Right. Why? Yeah. Uh, we're both Israeli citizens.

45:31 And by the way, nat- national service or service in the army doesn't need to kind of, don't need to force people specifically to the army. So there, there's the matter of equality. But I think that to some extent, what Amit is saying is... I, I don't want to say disregarding, but I, I think I would want to believe in what Amit is saying, but I don't.

45:51 The truth is that the ultra-Orthodox society, as it is built today, the parts that we're talking about, not all the parts, but the specific parts we are, that rather lives, uh, on benefits than actually go work- Mm... um, it's not only about the army. It's, it's about- Yeah... uh, m- you know, some of these courts of some of these rabbis are cult-like societies in which they don't want the members to participate.

46:21 And we're talking about big chunks of the- Mm... Haredi society. They don't want to participate because it threatens the authority- Mm-hmm... of, of, of the rabbi or the rabbis controlling it. They don't want them in the economy, and they don't want them in the army, and they don't want them to pay taxes, and they don't want them to, to be taught English. They don't want anything of that.

46:45 And what does a country do when this is not a small, tiny minority like it is in the United States? By the way, also in the United States it's already creating tensions. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And everybody who knows anything about the East Coast knows exactly what I'm talking about. Mm-hmm. But imagine if it's the large chunk of the first graders in five years in Israel are gonna be Haredi. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

47:05 And again, it's, it's not true for, you know, the, everyone who is Haredi of course. It m- might not even be true for most of them. But if it, even if it's 40%, what are we gonna do? How are we- Mm... gonna sustain this country? So there is a train here, and there are two trains, and they're gonna collide. One train is called a modern state, any modern state.

47:29 And the other train is called a, some parts of the Haredi society that are not willing to live in this world. Yeah. Mm. By the way, very different than other parts that are more modern. Uh, one of them is represented, for instance, by Chabad. And I'm not saying this, Kayla, because you are- No, I know. [laughs]... uh, from Chabad. Right.

47:49 How, how important is, you know, what's going on in the US or kind of US-Israel relationships to the Israeli voter? We just saw, uh, Bibi make a statement or, or say something or hint or not quite hint about, you know, finding other partners in India and maybe, you know, that, that special relationship not being- It's Latin America...

48:08 so special. Latin America. Latin America. We'll buy, we'll buy all those amazing Colombian war planes, I guess. Uh, but- Honduran... Honduran warplanes. [laughs] Those seem fun actually. Yeah. Um, are, are people thinking about... You know, I, I sit here in the US, obviously I'm inundated with like news and, and the way Israel looks and the, the relationship and who's, who's...

48:28 You know, which of the Senate candidate likes Israel, which doesn't. Are Israelis thinking about that at all- Absolutely... when they vote? I, I think- Yeah... there is something about Israelis you must understand. In order to make something important- Mm-hmm... just re- rebrand it as something that has to do with security. I'll give you an example.

48:47 For years, the, I mean, the, the, the worst place for a politician to be was to serve as the minister for the environment- Mm... until they changed it to the minister of the security of the environment. [laughs] Defending the environment. Defending. The war against the environment. The same applied for agriculture. Mm. The, the minister for agriculture changed it to Uh, the minister for the protection and the defense of the agriculture. Mm-hmm. Uh, I, I, I guess every pomegranate will have a hand grenade and, and, uh- [laughs] Yeah. And then it will...

49:25 So yes, Israelis see the, um, the discourse about Israel wor- worldwide, and especially in the United States, as something that touches the core foundations of the, of the, uh, our national security. Are they aware enough? I'm not sure. Are they, uh, awaken? Not enough. Will they wake up in 2029, in January 21st once, once there is a new president? Perhaps. It can happen.

50:00 It should be i- in my opinion, at the center of the discourse for this upcoming election because we are going to experience a train wreck within, in my opinion, less than two years, and I'll explain. We've reached a singular point in time in which there has never been such a, an opposition for the idea of a, the two-state solution within Israel- Mm-hmm... post October 7th.

50:25 At the very same time where the support for the Palestinian cause for independence peaked a generation high in the US, in Europe, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Now, in the long run, diffusions, diffusion will occur. I mean, something will have to happen. So Israelis, uh, really hope that, uh, i- in France, Spain, and, uh, Austria, the right wing will, will win, and somehow the EU will be saved.

50:56 But what happens with the United States? Let's say that in 2029 or in 2028, somehow Marco Rubio defeats, uh, JD Vance and- Be'ezrat Hashem... and somehow wins the general election. Okay, and how about 2032? Is there any- Mm... president over the last century for a one party controlling the White House for more than three terms in a row? I'm not aware of such a president.

51:22 And that's why I'm, I really suggest all of us in Israel to really think to, and to have a plan to be prepared for this day. Mm. So people who think that the US-Israel relationship is on a collision course- Absolutely... should probably not vote for Netanyahu. No, no. I- I'll give you one example. I wrote an, an, an article about, uh, Israel- No, it began well. Amit, it began well. [laughs] Your answer began well. No, no, but it's great.

51:49 It's a great question. I wrote an op-ed against, uh, Ben-Gvir's presence in the government in his current, uh, capacity as the kingmaker and the, the guy that you can't live without, et cetera. And the number one reason for me was the, what we call in economy, externalities. Uh, long-term political revenue, uh, in, for Ben-Gvir in Israel creates an enormous damage internationally. So I really- Mm...

52:18 suggested or recommended for Netanyahu to abandon Ben-Gvir. What happened next was that Ben-Gvir was convinced Netanyahu actually dictated me this op-ed- Mm... which, which is untrue, by the way. And since then he began a, uh, civil war with Netanyahu, uh, in the right wing because he's under the impression that Netanyahu is planning to throw him under the bus.

52:41 But I am under the impression that the entire country is going to be thrown under the American bus in two, two years' time. And this is one solution. You might offer that Israel should change course and replace the number one, uh, uh, PR problem, Benjamin Netanyahu. Others might offer a unity government. I don't know.

53:01 All I, all I'm saying is we cannot go on like this and pretending nothing is going to happen. But President Ilhan Omar is not gonna care- Oh, my God... if Netanyahu has Ben-Gvir- Chas veShalom... in his government. Uh, I think she's going to be- Or not, right?... before then, isn't it? [laughs] Maybe she'll be president of Somalia by then. Maybe. Oh, my God.

53:19 [laughs] Uh, I, I just wanna say that, uh, the problem there with Ben-Gvir and alter- of course, I also support the idea that Ben-Gvir is not gonna be part of the next government. Uh, and I'm not talking about, uh, what it will mean for the world. Uh, I, I think he shouldn't be part... He, he shouldn't have been part of the previous government too because he's a racist and a felon, and he's also, by the way, a failed minister.

53:44 He's a failure just if you look at the numbers, like murder rates and all the rest. But, uh, Smotrich and Orit Strook are doing much more damage to Israel than Ben-Gvir. Mm. What did Ben- Ben-Gvir do internationally speaking that is jeopardizing Israel beyond statements? You know, uh, for instance, uh, well, tortures in some of the Israeli prisons and et cetera, et cetera.

54:08 But the biggest issue is what's happening in, in the West Bank in Judea and Samaria. Mm-hmm. And that's a pet project of Smotrich and, and Orit Strook. Yeah, to your question, Netanyahu cannot betray, quote unquote, uh, the, the far right. He cannot. He cannot dump them for a national unity gov- By the way, today he said a national unity government is, uh, is a, is an impossibility. He said that in a press conference today. And why?

54:37 Why would he say that before an election? Because if he dumps the far right, then he knows that he's giving the keys to his political annihilation, to his death certificate, to people like Gadi Eisenkot and Bennett and Lapid, who despise him and think he's the worst prime minister ever. And he also knows that the far right doesn't have any alternative. The far right and him is a Catholic wedding. [laughs] Um, you know, and, and they just simply cannot lose this grip.

55:07 And if they do, Netanyahu is basically allowing his, his worst rivals to determine when he's gonna retire And because of that, I think it'd be very hard for him to do that. Now, it's possible as to Ben-Gvir, but he won't be able to do that with Smotrich. And if he won't do that to Smotrich, if it's not gonna be a really mainstream government, then, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's not gonna happen because for Smotrich and Strook, what's happening in the West Bank is the most important legacy ever.

55:39 For them, it is the beginning, really the beginning of the coming of, of, of, of the Messiah, what's happening right now. They can't believe it. It's such an achievement for them, the agriculture farms and all the rest. This is what they came for, to, to do politics for. And they've been very successful to their credit, not as far as I'm concerned, but just in terms of what they, they set out to do.

56:00 And because of that, they absolutely want to be part of this government. Even if Eisenkot is gonna be there, if Netanyahu is leading it, they wanna be there to defend that. But if they do, how do you save Israel internationally speaking if they just continue to do what they're doing right now? And I don't have a good answer to that. How does it affect voting?

56:20 Because we see what's going on in the West Bank and, and the terrorism and, and it's filling up... You know, I don't know if Americans know this, but it is pretty much opening every Israeli news broadcast. It's not something minor here. It's something that people are talking about, and, and the Washington Post, uh, photographer that was attacked. Are... Is this influencing how people vote?

56:40 Like, how are, how do you think the aver- average Israeli who, who doesn't have a lot of empathy for Palestinians maybe, but how do you think the average Israeli is, is looking at that, that turn? Amit has a good, a good newsletter today on this topic actually- Mm-hmm... on the settlers. Very interesting, Amit. Thank you so much. But yeah, sorry, answer the question.

56:57 So yes, my recommendation for the entire American society is read my newsletter. Yeah. [laughs] First thing on the m- in the morning. If you wanna save Israel, sign up- And a dot No, if you want to save the world, if you want to save the world- Yeah. Yeah... I, I think- [laughs]... I think it's a must read. It is. [laughs] Yes.

57:16 Well- But, uh, uh, but Amit, like let, let's talk about it because, you know, I, I've, I've read your newsletter. I t- think your, your newsletters are, are fantastic. You obviously talk about the, uh, you know, you talk about the danger in the situation. You're not, it's not like you're supportive of it or something. But you also talk about, I think the, the over-indexing- Right...

57:36 of this problem. Mm. And I, I understand what you're saying, and I see a lot of, a lot of American Jews doing the same and saying, "You know what? It's a small minority. It's this, it's that." That to me is just like, y- you know, it kind of gives a lot of supporters of Israel an excuse to like say, "Okay, whatever," like sweep this under the rug when it really is growing.

57:57 Like just in the last few months, I feel like- It is, it is-... it's, it's become a bigger and bigger problem... so it's complicated. It is growing. It is s- way more dangerous to be a Jew in Judea and Samaria rather than a Palestinian. Yes, the world is unfair because it ignores the sentence that I've just said.

58:15 And no, it doesn't give any excuse for the Israeli government not to take care really seriously of the phenomenon, uh, in, b- just because the, the, the world sucks and international media- Mm... doesn't report the, the- Mm... the whole truth. Yes, the picture is distorted. Yes, it's totally crazy that, that 90% of the coverage in Judea and, about Judea and Samaria, uh, deals with this phenomenon while ignoring all the Palestinian violence. But it...

58:44 I, I mean, the world is unfair, so why, why should Israel and Israelis give an excuse for hostile forces and powers within the international community to act against Israel? I'll give you an example. Uh, the United Kingdom explained its decision to sanction, um, some, uh, sectors in Israel with the, uh, settler violence.

59:07 However, when you take a, a closer look at the, uh, um, bodies in the companies sanctioned, you see that those are not, uh, the so-called Jewish terrorists. Those are the mainstream, uh, uh, um, movements of the settler movement and of, of any attempt to, to do things that are in wide consensus in Israel.

59:34 So yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy, but no, we should not give any... We should not fuel this hypocrisy with ignoring the fact. And I think that the, uh, State of Israel was very, very successful in taking care of Iranian, Iran's nuclear program with the, the Hezbollah pagers, uh, with, um, some other, uh, uh, complicated projects, way more complicated than a bunch of, I don't know, a few hundred youngsters, uh, on some hills in Judea and Samaria.

1:00:09 Yes, I know it's complicated, so just, just do it. Mm-hmm. Hm. Is the incentives, is the, is the sanctions, does that, do you think that incentivizes Israelis or let's say the, the broader settler movement or the government, does that incentivize them to act to stop this? Or does it just make them say more like, "F you- No, no, no, no... we'll do whatever we want"? It, it, it should and it does. It, it, it's, it finally helps them to deal with it.

1:00:32 This is a problem that was neglected, that has been neglected for many, many years. And yes, uh, it involved, uh, treating it as a, something less serious than it is. There was this idea of we have hard times to explain to ourselves why is it that severe, because, you know, we were all young and, uh, stupid and we needed the money or the land. Mm-hmm.

1:00:56 And, uh, i- in the last term, of course, uh, the fact that Ben-Gvir is part of the coalition, and Ben-Gvir was the lawyer of the very same activists- Mm-hmm... uh, so I guess he doesn't have a high motivation to act against them. But this, the wake-up call... is here, and Israel should act as fast as possible and as efficiently and severely as possible before it's too late.

1:01:24 Okay, I'm gonna title this episode, "Amit Segal Issues-" [laughs] "... Grave Warning About Ben-Gvir". I, I have a stupid question. I mean, I think it's a stupid question, but I wanna ask it anyway. I don't understand why Bibi and the other, let's say, I don't know, Bennett and whoever, Eisenkot, can't make a government and leave out the extreme far right, leave out the Arabs who people don't like. Like, what is, what's stopping that?

1:01:51 Is it that Eisenkot and, and, uh, Bennett, et cetera, won't s- won't do it with Bibi? So, like, is Bibi the issue, or is it that Bibi won't do it with them? Who's the one who's- Netanyahu will never, ever let go. Oh, he won't. He, he might- Okay... let go of Ben-Gvir if he can maintain Smotrich. But he won't let go of Smotrich, and Smotrich is no sucker. Right.

1:02:17 And he's not gonna let go of influential positions in the government that the center in Israel can't allow him. He can't be, again, the minister in the defense ministry responsible for the West Bank. Mm. Right. Because everything we're seeing is not related, again, to, to Ben-Gvir. These people who are there, I don't wanna say what they're voting for, but they're... I, I don't think they're voting for...

1:02:42 They might not be voting at all, by the way. Right. They might be so extreme- Oh, that's good. That's some good news... they might not vote at all. Yeah. So I don't want to second guess. But they're closer to Smotrich. Yeah. They come from that political home. Ben-Gvir is getting his votes for under classes, weakened classes in the Israeli society, okay?

1:03:00 Uh, Smotrich is getting his votes from a specific elite of the Israeli society that is ideological. Mm. Uh, not only- Mm-hmm... in the West Bank- Right... in Judea and Samaria, but also in other places. You know, I, I'm not sa- saying that the Hilltop Youth, as they are labeled, are voting- Right... for Smotrich, but they are closer. Right. So at any rate, Smotrich is not g- it's...

1:03:20 If it was up to Netanyahu, Netanyahu wanted the government with Mansour Abbas. Amit reported about that. Right. Mm. Who managed to derail it? Right. Smotrich said it was principle. By the way, unlike Ben-Gvir. Mm-hmm. Ben-Gvir was pragmat- pragmatic about it. Smotrich said, "I'm not gonna sit in the same government with an Arab party that is the Muslim brother.

1:03:41 I'm not gonna do it, even if that means that Netanyahu is not gonna be the prime minister." Right. He's a principle ideologue. Mm-hmm. You have to... You don't have to- Right... but you can. Respect him for that, okay? Yeah, yeah. Now, I don't see Netanyahu... If Netanyahu will come to Eisenkot after the election, he would say, "Look, let's have a national unity government." Mm-hmm.

1:04:00 "Let's leave Smotrich and Ben-Gvir out of the government." Mm-hmm. "And you'll have to leave Yair Golan." Not that I think, by the way, that Yair Golan d- is equal to in his extremism- Right Yeah... to Ben-Gvir. But okay. And that's the, the left wing- Yeah, let's say... party, for people who don't know... he's Zionist left. But okay, let's say. F- for right-wingers, it's a red flag, okay? Right.

1:04:22 Let's leave them out, have only a unity government, uh, you know, you and me. I don't know what will happen then, but- Mm... I know he's not going to do that, because today- Right... in a press conference, Netanyahu said that he's against a national unity government, on the record. Right. But he says a lot of things. No, but he means it. [laughs] It's, it's his policy.

1:04:43 It's his policy in the last few years. He doesn't want national unity. Unless- He thi- And why- Un- unless, Nadav, it is, it's his last term, and then he might... I mean, something might change. Um. Mm. A- Amit, the guy is s- 77, uh, you know, uh- You can't, you can't teach an, uh- What does it mean when he says it's his last term? I, I, I wouldn't say- That he's not gonna be there until he's 120?

1:05:09 No, I mean, I mean- [laughs] I wanted to say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but in Israel, there is a huge scandal by calling Eisenkot a monkey, so I wouldn't want to be involved in another scandal. Yeah. Let's leave animal metaphors out of this. Yeah, calling Netanyahu a dog. Yeah. So all I'm saying is- [laughs] Yes, that's what you claim, you're claiming. But I think that if Netanyahu...

1:05:29 I mean, I know it sounds, um, unfamiliar when it comes to Netanyahu, but I think at the end of the day after, you know, for king and country. So Netanyahu cares slightly more about himself than his coalition partners. And if he comes to a conclusion that he can somehow arrange a, a- another term or half term at least, uh, and to spend, uh, Trump's last two years, uh, in office, he might, he might get rid of his, of his beloved Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.

1:06:03 Mm. Well, halivay. Mm. Are they po- how are they polling, uh, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir compared to last election? Eh, give or take the same. Ben-Gvir is a meteor. The same? Give or take the same. No. No, combined. Mm. Combined. Eight and six, nine and five. Uh, uh, Ben-Gvir- Yep... uh, worries Netanyahu very much, Bibi, read Amit, and he's going to downgrade Ben-Gvir. And Ben-Gvir, uh, is very, is very good in TikTok. [laughs] Yeah.

1:06:28 And, uh, right now, I s- I just saw a poll tonight giving him 10 seats. First time it's double digits. Wow. And he's taking these seats from the Likud. Wow. So I, I wanna be clear about that. I said that earlier. Smotrich isn't really taking votes from the Likud. Mm. Okay? Not really. To some degree.

1:06:46 But Ben-Gvir is really on the same demographics as the Likud, the classic demographics of the Likud from, from the center of Israel, and he's taking that. Because of that, uh, I suspect that in the next week we will see a Netanyahu-Ben Gvir clash. Uh, it already began with Ben-Gvir saying he wants to leave me out of government, but it's going to get worse, I think, because Netanyahu needs to regain these votes. Could you see Ben-Gvir in a Eisenkot government? No.

1:07:15 And, and also, by the way, I don't even see- I mean, stranger things have happened... it would never happen. And, and you know it's recorded[laughs] It's not gonna happen. No. Because I, I'll explain it. Because it doesn't have the votes. It doesn't have the votes. Uh, the lefties and the center left in Israel are a very, a strange bunch. On the one hand, they tend not to win elections.

1:07:39 On the other hand, they have a lot of principles- [laughs] In the coalition conversations. Let me give you an example that Amit remembers. So Tzipi Livni, 2009, she won one seat more than Netanyahu. She came to the negotiations, she got the, the mandate, I think, from the president to form a government. She was the first. Yeah. Uh, is it true, Amit? Did she get it? I think she got it. Yeah. And then...

1:08:05 Because she got one seat more. Okay. Mm-hmm. And then she went to the ultra-orthodox and she thought it's a negotiation. Mm-hmm. So they said, "We want this," she said, "We want that." They said, "We want this." She didn't understand that Netanyahu already had a contract with them- Right. With the ultra-orthodox. Mm-hmm. You know how the contract looked like?

1:08:23 The contract was a blank page with Netanyahu's signature, I'm talking metaphorically speaking- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah... but it was really the case. Mm. In which he basically told them, "Whatever you want." Yeah. Yeah. "Whatever you want, you're gonna... In terms of money, whatever you want- Right... you just say. You know, it's education. Why not?" Right. Right. It's for the betterment of the country. She thought she's negotiating.

1:08:45 But she wasn't. She had principles. Well, she, she ended her political life, uh, like that. She was a minister in the Netanyahu government. Wait, I have a question not related- I liked Tzipi Livni... I have a question not related to the elections, but I'm looking at... I have behind me Golda Meir on my wall, and I'm talking to two leading journalists of, uh, Israel. Is it true that Golda Meir cheated on her husband?

1:09:07 She had affairs? Okay. Look, I, I, I need to- I need to know. No. I need to call her and to, to actually get her comment before I can actually report the full details. [laughs] So I'll get back to you. But- I think it's- No, but- I think it's good for women to know that even someone that looked like her, what pe- you know- I, I can't. Look, I was inbo- I find that deeply offensive. Well, how did she have time?

1:09:26 Look, I was involved- Where did she have time to have an affair? Uh, deeply, deeply offensive. I'm, I'm, I'm here, uh... I, I'm not sure that you can speak like that when you're broadcasting from the East Coast- [laughs]... in the United States. Amit. Are you in Florida or something, Chaya? Have you ever listened to our podcast?

1:09:40 [laughs] But I, I, I'll tell you a story. Like, Golda Meir was ha- uh, was separated from her husband. Had been separated for, I don't know, 30 years- Mm. Um, uh, before she- Yeah... well, when she became prime minister. Um, Levi Eshkol, her predecessor, uh, was a charmer. And, um, he actually... He once met the head of the Shin Bet. So the head of the Shin Bet told him, "Look, uh, we are ve- our guys are very discreet.

1:10:08 They'll never ever leak anything of your, uh, romantic, uh, you know, romantic lives." So Levi Eshkol said, "How disappointing. I really wanted everyone to know." [laughs] So- Oh. [laughs] Well, you know, Amit- That's good... a lot of, a lot of men say they're, they're separated. Absolutely. [laughs] So, you know, maybe- No, but he was- She just said her husband doesn't understand her. Absolutely.

1:10:29 Yeah, exactly. By the way, I wasn't aware of all the gossip about Golda Meir. It's, um- No? Well, speaking of- I need to go back to, you know, to do a soul search as to that. You should. I, I, I, I, I knew about... Was it Zalman Shazar that she had something with? I don't remember. Is Zalman Shazar? Oh. Okay. So I know it. Really? What did he look like? Yeah. Was he a hottie? Wow. He was the president of the, of Israel.

1:10:50 Don't you remember Zalman Shazar? But way before... But he w- No, but- No, but what did... But did... That makes him a little more attractive, but by how much? He was not a hottie. No, no, no. He's not a hottie? Okay. He, he, he became a president and she became a prime minister. Oh. S- so don't... I mean, don't- Oh. She, he also, by the way, had, if I'm not mistaken, and Amit, correct me if I'm wrong- The poet...

1:11:09 he had an affair- With the poet... with Rachel. Of course. Really? Uh, Israel's most famous poet, uh, who died. A pioneer- Why did we waste all this time talking about Smotrich and all this nonsense? [laughs] No, but th- this was an interesting time, you see, let me explain. Because it was a socialist, secular, progressive- Mm... communal- Mm-hmm... Zionist society- That's right...

1:11:32 in which men and women bathed together in the labor regiment. Mm-hmm. Uh, and really rebelled against their religious, uh, parents- Right... and had a lot of, uh, sex. And, uh, this is, like- Good for them... these are our founding fathers. That's what the new government should offer if they want votes. Zalman Shazar was very- Men and women bathing together... Z- Zalman Shazar was very close to the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

1:11:55 He came to visit him. Absolutely. Uh- Yes. He, he was from a Chabad- Yeah... Lubavitcher family. He's from a... That's exactly right. Do you think that the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave him advice as to his romantic life? No. Abso- [laughs] No, but he knew, but he knew everything about it. He told his wife that he's going to visit- Will you be disavowed because of me asking that question, Chaya? No.

1:12:14 [laughs] He told his wife he's gonna visit the Rebbe, and instead he went to meet Rachel in her apartment in Sheinkin or something. [laughs] Now we're having fan fiction written about Israel's, uh- Okay... president. Yeah. Old fan fiction. Okay, fine. And on that optimistic note- The gentle lady. [laughs] Amit is like, "I, we need to leave." We're done. [laughs] Amit and Nadav- Well- Thank you so much for your time Thank you so much.

1:12:35 Thank you so much for having us I know it's your busy week. It's your, your Super Bowl week. Yeah. So appreciate your time, and hopefully- And good luck. Don't feel stressed out. Uh, it's not that, uh, everybody's looking at how many downloads and actually- [laughs]... listening that they have. Can we open a WhatsApp chat for the four of us where we complain about everything?

1:12:51 Don't, don't be too stressed about it. It's, uh, just, uh, you know, it's- Yeah... it's just the most important thing. Yeah, exa- [laughs] Exactly. After the election. Amit, I, I, I just want to say, Amit, we went to Wyoming with Nadav. So we're hoping to do that one day with you also. Wow. Yeah. We'll go to Utah or something. It was a very enjoyable, a very enjoyable trip. No, no.

1:13:08 Amit, Amit doesn't want to stray away from Eretz Yisrael to Wyoming. It's too far for him. [laughs] No, but for me, Nadav, for me, everything is Eretz Yisrael. It's Greater Israel. Oh. [laughs] Yes. Yes. Well, some people in Utah- That's a, of course, that he re- that is a, a remark on a famous, famous, uh, sentence: "L'chol makom sheani olech ani olech le'Eretz Yisrael," which is really nice. Mm-hmm.

1:13:30 "Every place I go, I go to Eretz Yisrael." I- Which, by the way, is the perfect excuse not to be in Eretz Yisrael, if you want that excuse. [laughs] Thank you so much. Well, good luck- Okay, thank you... guys this week. Bye-bye. Thank you, guys. Thanks. Bye. Okay, everybody else stick around. We have a few more minutes for you. [upbeat music] Can I say something mean? Um, can I say something that might be a little controversial?

1:13:57 [laughs] I mean, that's the premise of the show. Okay, fine. Um, are you watching the riots in France? Yes, yes, I'm watching it on- Yeah, okay... Twitter, which is, is just a, you know, a par- portion of it- Right... but. Well, okay, I feel badly for people whose lives are affected by it, especially the innocent people, but, like, also it couldn't happen to a better country. [laughs] Is that, is that the wrong thing to say?

1:14:25 I mean, there, there are all these memes going around about how, you know, Israel is condemning- I know... the violence, and there's a two-state solution. [laughs] Uh, they should have a two-state solution. It's just- And in, I think the Babylon Bee, um, even had a, a thing that, an Instagram thing that said, "Palestinians finally get their own country," and it's, like, just a, a Eiffel Tower. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I mean- It's-... I can't say I am heartbroken for the- Right... you know, the French Republic. Right. Um, it sucks for the people. It's...

1:14:57 And honestly, it, like, breaks my heart to see, like, all these historic- Yeah, the buildings... buildings, and all the, you know, uh- but, like, what do you expect? I know. I know. What did you expect? I feel so bad for the Jews, though. I mean, in one town I saw yesterday, they literally got the addresses of Jewish businesses and the shuls and- I mean- It, it's just- Yeah, and the synagogues that were rampaged.

1:15:18 And, and it's like- It's crystal meth... you know, m- I, I posted something. I'm like, "You know, maybe this, part of this is a reaction to what's going on in Gaza, but maybe, maybe the violence is- Yeah... the reason we're in this situation- Exactly... in Gaza to begin with." Exactly. All right? And, and by the way, there's, there's still not, it's still unclear how much...

1:15:39 'Cause we see, when I open my social media, and you as well, and when we look at it from the Jewish perspective, we see a lot of Palestinian flags- Yeah... a lot of keffiyehs. Yeah. But it's unclear to me how big that is. I've actually seen, um, reports from an Israeli in Paris saying, you know, it's really not the, the point. Really?

1:15:56 So we might be kind of over-indexing for that even though, uh, obviously there's a lot of Muslim, um, migrants who are, who are involved in it. Um, it's just, it's scary to me how quickly a society can, can spiral like that. Yeah. I absolutely think it can happen here- Yeah... in the United States. I think it can happen in Israel. I think it can happen anywhere.

1:16:14 Yeah. Um, when people get, when, when people are given a sort of this, this permission to let out the, you know, all the, the violent and, and, and, uh, anarchist parts of their human nature, and it's not stopped by the authorities, or it's not condemned forcefully enough, it's... Did you see, uh, what's his name at the Celine Dion concert? No. What? The president. He was at the C- He was just, like, at- Who, Macron?... at the Celine Dion concert while all this- Oh my God...

1:16:41 yeah, while all this was going on. You're kidding. Yeah. Uh, which I would like to leave Celine Dion out of this because she is- I love her... you know, holy, a holy woman, I think. I love her. Um, she's so great. Have you ever seen her Carpool Karaoke? No. With, uh... Oh, it's so funny. She's funny. She does, like, a carp- She's very funny.

1:16:58 She has a great, there's a great documentary about her on, uh, that I watched that was amazing. Like, it made me fall in love with her. Does she like Jews? Isn't she performing in Israel? I thought I saw something about her. No? I don't know. You probably saw it on some, like, fake Haredi WhatsApp- [laughs]... or something. But, but- Yeah... fun fact, she was in Eurovision. Was she?

1:17:17 Yeah, representing France, I think- I'm so-... even though she's Canadian. I'm so happy you were able to drop a Eurovision fact. I mean, I, I wish I would've got it in with a Beat the Dov, but it didn't come up. This, this whole segment was worth it just for that, for Eurovision. Yeah. So anyway, Europe, uh, sucks for you. France- Yeah, best of luck... best of luck.

1:17:36 A lot of people say, like, "Oh, French, like, they love to protest. They love to riot." Um, but it, it is scary. Mm. And, and for, a- and- Scary for the Jews... you know, we always talk a lot about, we talk a lot about, you know, obviously antisemitism in America's out of control, but there's no day-to-day feeling of danger, right?

1:17:57 And I don't think the Jews of France can say the same. So all of them should move to Israel. It's good for the economy. It's good for real estate. I, I had never met a French person in my life until I was, like, 18, and now half- Yeah... of Tel Aviv is French, and it's great because Israelis finally have somebody they can be, like, look down upon.

1:18:15 [laughs] Like, you know, it's like- But you know what? The French have good fashion-...