The Friend Zone: Rejection or False Hope?

0:00 Welcome to Coffee and Cleaves. Welcome, guys. I'm Lenny. And I'm Claudia. And hello, Gary.

0:07 Hi, Gary. You're so far away today.

0:09 No, I'm just over here in the corner.

0:11 Gary, where are you?

0:12 How are you guys?

0:13 We're good.

0:15 Gary, we uh we need a male's perspective today.

0:20 Perfect. That's what I'm here for.

0:22unknown Lenny.

0:23 I'm all thrown off now. Like which camera? Yeah, which camera? Lenny, what are we yapping about today? Why she will never sleep with you. The friend zone.

0:33 Dun dun dun. The friend zone.

0:37 It's like the friends. Same guy's dread to be in.

0:41 Yeah. Have you ever been friend zoned, Gary?

0:44 Uh yeah, I have. For sure. Sucks.

0:47 Is this by the girl that you met on your vacation recently?

0:50 No, not.

0:51 So things are going hot and heavy with her.

0:52 Things are going good for sure. But it was like a while ago. So and it just like sucks too.

0:58 So it happens, but so the friend zone's real, is what you're saying.

1:04 It is real, but my question is, does it happen to girls too? We only talk about guys, but goo do girls get friend zoned?

1:13 I don't think so. I've never been friend zoned.

1:16 I mean, that's not really shocking, honestly, but have I done the friend zoning?

1:21 Yes, but I don't think I've ever been friend zoned. No. Have you? No, obviously not. No.

1:28 No.

1:28 I I've I know the friend zone is a real place because obviously we've we've put people in the friend zone, but is it just a nice way of saying I'm just not attracted to you?

1:39 I mean I don't know because I feel like sometimes people do end up balling for the person. True.

1:47 A lot of the times I think I I don't think it's really also possible to date someone that you're not friendly with to begin with, right? Like yeah, you don't just start dating, right? Like you you have to develop a like a little bit of a rapport first. So I think you're you're always friendly first, right?

2:06 But what's the difference between friendly and friend zone?

2:09 Like well, what's the main reason you guys friend zone people or guys? Um I guess people.

2:15 Just not not attracted.

2:18 So is that usually the main thing? You're not attracted to them. So you're like, hey, I like you as a friend. I'm not like attracted to you.

2:25 Maybe some people you just would rather keep as a friend. Yeah. Yeah.

2:29 Like maybe I just don't think you're gonna be a good boyfriend. So because I could see signs in you of, you know, I I wouldn't want to date this type of person, but I don't really care if we're friends or not, you know.

2:42 Do you think that goes away though? In a way, if you're not attracted to the guy, you'll you could still be in him, maybe like because he's really funny or something, he's a really good personality, but you're not attracted to him, but you could eventually be attracted to him.

2:52 Yeah, I think that happens, definitely.

2:54 But I think a woman from the like beginning knows, like, I'm gonna sleep with this guy or I'm not gonna sleep with this guy. Like, I'm I've never been in a situation where I've met a man and not been able to know in the back of my head whether I'm sexually attracted to him or not. Like it's it's that's never grown on me, right?

3:12 Yeah. Like that's not something that I'm like, oh, you know what, I didn't want to sleep with you, but now all of a sudden I do. Like I know from like the second we say hello, like yay or nay. Right.

3:22 Yeah.

3:24unknown Yeah.

3:25 Are you the same, Lenny? Pretty much.

3:27 Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's the times that I I recall being in long-term relationships and having like I remember for one, like my ex. I remember uh being friends with a guy and then actually dating him after.

3:43 Really? How long from how long were you like friends before you started dating?

3:48 Maybe like a few months. Really? Mm-hmm.

3:50 And when how like why did that attraction change for you? Like what happened that like you went from like friends to like friendly?

3:58 Friends to friendly. I don't know. It's just like that tells me there's always some sort of attraction. Yeah, you know? Yeah.

4:05 That's interesting.

4:06 Yeah.

4:06 Cause I feel like I I don't know, maybe because I'm just like so quick to judge and I'm so like extreme in that sense, like I know right away. Like I know exactly where to put you the second I meet you. But I'm like that with everybody. Like, if I meet a girl and like I could see what kind of friend she'll be, like, I know how much information or not information to like offer up in like a friendship.

4:26 Because like, do I trust you or do I not trust you? Like, yeah. I guess I've never been in a position where like things have grown for me. Yeah. Like you're either in it or you're not in it. I don't know.

4:37 No, it makes sense.

4:38 But I think men, men maybe are different. Cause I I think also men need to know right away. Like, are we friends? Like, I don't think that's like a question women ask more than men do. Like, I feel like men always need to know, like, what are we doing here? Who are we? Yeah.

4:53 I also feel like guys are different because guys would hook up with like 98% of women. So it's like in women wouldn't do that. Like, I'm not attracted to you like that. Guys would be like, eh, whatever, all right. Yeah. Tonight, okay, whatever. And then you're like, I feel like I shouldn't have done that.

5:07 Yeah.

5:08 And like I've done that before where you're like, I wouldn't want to be with you, but like, okay, we'll just hook up. And I feel like women are not like that as much.

5:16 No. A woman's not just gonna like sleep with someone. I mean, there are women that are more promiscuous, but I I don't think that's like a thing for most women. Yeah. I wouldn't just like hit it and quit it and not know how to place a guy. Okay, well, can a man actually be too nice? Or is that still a cop out?

5:36 Because like, have you ever looked at a guy and you're like, you're just nice? That that actually means like no.

5:42 I don't think I've ever met a guy that's been too nice. I feel like every guy has a side of them that has, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

5:50 Do you look at niceness though as like a weakness in a way? If a guy's like super nice, you're like, oh, you're kind of a pussy in a way.

5:58 It's kind of like you can't be like a pushover, right? Like, like you need a backbone.

6:03 Yeah, it's almost like it sucks because it's like be nice but not too nice, but don't be be dick, but not too much of a dick. And it's like, it's so like, what do you do? It's like you want to be like a gentleman, but like it's like you don't want to be like a simp, so it's like, oh my god, like it's so hard.

6:18 Like I got her door, and it's like, oh, you know, it's like, how do you know how much to do and what not to do? To be like, I'm friend zoning him because he's so nice.

6:28 And I and I hate the simp word.

6:30 Because I feel too hate that word because, like, when I see, like, for example, on the internet, like, for example, if we post a photo and a guy comments like something really, really nice under it, and then a guy will comment under his comment simp. And I'm like, he's a simp because he's nice.

6:52 Yeah. I fucking hate that word too.

6:54 Like you're just hate. A man is complimenting me. That means he's a simp.

6:59 Like, I I don't even know the exact definition of a simp, but I feel like that word gets so loosely thrown around that like nice guys are being called simps when they're just because it's the guys that will like bow down to you and do everything they like simp for you, you know, like, oh my god, like I will do anything.

7:17 But then there's guys like be nice to them. Yeah, I hate those guys.

7:22 I know they're sweethearts, yeah. They're not like they're not pussies, they're just nice guys. Yeah.

7:27 Well, it's nothing wrong with that. No.

7:29 Guys that do stuff for women, like, you know, and it's like you kind of almost are like, it gets it's weird where it's almost like that's being like too nice. It's it's strange to me, like getting doors and like doing stuff for your your girl, like, hey, I got gas in her car. And it's almost like it's like you're doing too much, which is weird because like I am a guy who likes to take care of the woman I'm with, so I do laugh.

7:51 And I think that's good. And it's like I hate when women are like, oh, it's like too nice. So friend zone him. It's like, but it's like be nice, but not too nice. It's like, where is the meaning?

8:02 Because women like like the bad boy thing, right? Like, but then the bad boy is also an asshole. So like I also you also don't want that guy. Yeah.

8:09 Is it because it's like almost too easy? Like the bad boy's like, oh fucking, I'm going out. Oh, I forgot to call you, and it's like, but the uh the nice guy's like, hey, like what are you doing? And it's like, fuck, this guy's boring.

8:20 It's like Yeah. I mean, dating's it's it's a scale, right? Like, you can't be too nice, you can't be too unavailable, you can't be too available. Like it's like they're the the happy dating games, yeah. Yeah, and we've talked about dating games over and over, but like you just you can't be too nice, but you also can't be not nice.

8:38 Yeah.

8:39 Does it make you guys want a guy more if he doesn't want you? I mean, you like this guy's so into me, so I'm kind of just like, whatever, but if he's like, I wasn't even into you, you're like, wait, what?

8:48 Because now it's cat and mouse, right? Like now it's like, why don't you want me? I've had that happen once in my life, and I'm not gonna get into specifics here, but it's it's happened once. And and I was rejected by a man.

9:02 Really? Yes. What the fuck would reject you?

9:05 Tell you at dinner because not sharing details on the show, but I can't wait to hear this story. Yeah, I was I was rejected, and it was the first time in my life I was rejected, and I cannot tell you how awful that felt.

9:20 Oh my god, yeah.

9:21 So I feel for men that do get rejected because it completely like destroy destroys your ego, especially when you're a hot girl. Because like that's not supposed to happen to us. It's it's not supposed to happen. And when it did happen, I like you like you start rethinking everything. You're like, do I smell bad?

9:38 Do I look bad? Like, is like what's wrong with me?

9:42 I mean, that's how it's I mean, guys are too. It's like, what did I? I wasn't like personality not good, do I not look good? And it's like you question everything and you're like, cool, so I have to just take that and like it's that's why it's so hard to date, you know? And it's like, you know, why like why is why is this person not into me?

10:01 Yeah, so so so to go back on your question, when I was rejected, I wanted it more because I'm like, hold on, what am I doing wrong here? Like, like and then you start looking at yourself, you're like, I you start picking yourself apart because you don't know like what the hell the guy's thinking, because why would you get rejected?

10:18 Yeah. So I men watching, I I feel for you because I don't know, that's that's hard. That's hard, yeah. Yeah. What about like a guy? Have you ever like friend zoned a guy and then saw him with a girl and then he starts looking like more interesting? Cause you're like, hmm, has that ever happened to you?

10:38 Uh no, actually. I I do recall friend zoning someone, he really liked me, and we were really good friends. We'd go hiking together. Did he take it good? Did he I mean when I friends kind of friend zone him? I I just kind of like never moved past that with them, you know. I mean I was okay with it. I did mess around with I let him yeah, you know, let him please me, and I didn't return the favor.

11:05 You then I kicked him out, yeah. Yeah, it was messed up.

11:10 You're like, thanks for that, but I don't like you.

11:12 Like you let him take care of you when you kicked him.

11:16 That's awesome.

11:16 I know. Oh, I felt kind of bad after, but I just always wanted us to be friends and see him like that.

11:21 You wanted to be friends, but you let him go down on you.

11:24 I know that's kind of fucked up.

11:26 That's so fucked up.

11:27 So you friend zone him after that. Well, obviously.

11:31 Was he just terrible? Is that why you friend zone him? No. So you just wanted to get off real quick and then just poor guy. I know. Should we bring him on the show?

11:40 I'm still friends with him till this day. Yeah. And he's married and has, you know, a really cute little girl. I'm happy for him.

11:47 Does his wife know that this happened between you guys?

11:51 No, I'm sure not.

11:52 Oh God.

11:53 I'd be pissed, honestly, if I was saying, I'd be like, wow, I just did that and you fucking friendzoned me.

11:58 Or was that like a blessing for him? Like, he got to do that. You're welcome. What do you think?

12:04 Like he did it. I'm like, Wow, I guess I'm not good at that then. Questioning everything.

12:09 That's where I would go. That's exactly where my brain would go. Like, if I hooked up with someone and then they friend zoned me, I'd be like, damn, I need I need to polish up my skills.

12:19 Damn, poor guy. Yeah.

12:21 Well, was it just because like were like you didn't see that emote like attraction to him, or was it just kind of a combination of everything?

12:28 I just didn't want to date him like that, you know. Just wanted to remain friends. We were good friends, worked together. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. I hope he doesn't know I'm talking about him. Watching this, watch the cloud.

12:40 I'm sure you know, I always wonder, like, when we like talk about people, like, do they know that we're, you know, talking about them?

12:47 Right.

12:48 Okay, so can men and women be friends? Like, this is a question the whole world I think wants to know. Can men and women be friends? What's your take on this?

13:01 I think they can. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Like strictly platonic, yeah, yeah.

13:06 I think so. Like, I and like my husband always says, no, like men and women can't be friends, they can't be friends. I believe men and women can be friends. And if you want to be taking things to another level and the girls not reciprocating, that's on you. Yeah. It's not my responsibility to babysit your feelings.

13:25 If I want to keep you in my life as a friend, like that's why would you not want that? So you rather end a perfectly beautiful friendship than, you know, yeah. Like, like, why not?

13:37 Do you think I I mean I agree with Dan to be completely honest with you. Yeah. I think one person is always gonna eventually want more. Whether it be the guy or the girl, it's always gonna be like someone's gonna always want more. I've never really been able to be friends with girls. Unless it was like well, unless it's like a friend's, like they're married or something like that.

14:00 But if they're, you know, like, but like, you know, like an ex or any girls, it's just like it never works. It's like you always end up like hooking up or something. And I've never had a friend that's just a girl that I'm like, oh hey, we're just like buds, you know. Really?

14:14 Never and I agree with that. Yeah. I I I love having male friends.

14:20 I feel like guys way more think that, and women think way more like, oh, I have tons of guy friends, and they all probably want you. And it's they're not gonna I mean, like, that's what's hard about it. As I do feel like guys kind of, you know, being friends with you guys would be probably pretty hard.

14:36 Unless you're you know you're married or something.

14:37 Yeah, yeah. So I have guy friends too, and yeah.

14:42 It it's because it's like if you know I'm married and you know there's no chance in hell, and you choose to be friends with me, then then you then you already know like it's not an option for you. So if if you're a guy and you're friends with me and you know I'm married, you know it's not going anywhere.

15:01 So I I think that's like the purest type of friendship because you you know there's no chance in hell, right?

15:06 Mm-hmm. That's true.

15:08 Mm-hmm.

15:08 So But I mean, is Dan cool with you having guy friends?

15:14 But I don't really have like a plethora of them, right? Like like I wouldn't go like to the movies with my guyfriend, right?

15:21 I mean, like my if like I had like a girlfriend or wife or whatever, I and she was like, I have like all these guy friends, I'd be like, hmm, it's kind of weird.

15:30 It'd be weird if like she was like, oh no, sorry, I can't do dinner tonight. I'm going out with Rick, you know. Yeah.

15:36 Like Yeah. So that would be kind of weird.

15:39 And it'd be, would you be cool being like, hey, I have all these girlfriends, they're just like my friends. Like I'm just I'm friends with all these girls and we're going out to dinner and stuff. Would you be like, cool, have fun?

15:47 No.

15:47unknown Yes.

15:49 Once we're in a relationship, no. But I mean, if you were single before me, which obviously you were, and you had friends, I can't be mad at you for having a life before me.

15:59 I just feel like guys are way too most guys are just way too horny. Like a lot of them are like, oh, like and then we'll eventually like you'll go out and have drinks or something. It's like, oh fuck. And then you hook up or something and it like makes it weird. I feel like always something like that happens.

16:15 I think men and women think so differently on this. Because like women were like, yeah, of course we could have male friends, but then like you hear a male's perspective on it and they're like, no, they want to fuck you. And it's like, yeah.

16:24 What if they look at you like their sister? Right. You know?

16:27 Yeah.

16:27 Yeah.

16:27 I mean you want to bang your sister.

16:30 Stepsister, maybe.

16:31 Steps stepsister.

16:33 That is a whole yeah, that is that is a whole different topic. Okay, Lenny, do you think you could be friends with an ex? Is that a thing?

16:43 I've never really kept any ex as a friend. Yeah. When's done, it's done. No.

16:50 Yeah. If you're not a good boyfriend, you're not gonna be a good friend.

16:54 Yeah. I think you know, can end things civilly and be friendly, but yeah, I'm not gonna stay in touch and go hang out.

17:03 My so my husband had a close girlfriend who he also dated for like a little period there. And when him and I got together, like I knew that this is like his longtime friend. They also dated, they slept together. Like, I knew all this. But I saw like, like this was somebody that was important to him in his life.

17:26 And they were friendly first, and then they dated, and then they went back to being friends. So when I came into his life, like I never felt threatened or anything seeing even like them remaining friends, because I'm like, I have enough confidence to know, like, you're you're not leaving me for this girl because you would have been with her already, you know?

17:46 And I don't think long term she was able to stand me being in his life when I feel like if you guys broke up, you obviously knew this relationship wasn't gonna go anywhere. So why would you hate on me?

17:58 Yeah.

17:59 Like I did nothing wrong here. If anything, I should be the one saying, No, no, no, you're not friends with your ex. Yeah. And I was totally fine with it. And she wasn't fine with me.

18:06 What the hell?

18:07 Yeah. But like you already, you already dropped him, so now I can't have him. So like her whole thing was, I don't want you, but nobody else can have you.

18:17 Wow. Which is horrible, which is that's some possessive type shit right there.

18:21 I mean, it that's just like how it works. I've broken up with girls where I'm like, I'm so done with this girl. And then you see them with someone else and you're like, oh fuck, what's up? Actually, yeah. And it's just like you see them with someone else and you're like, actually don't like that.

18:33 Yeah.

18:34 And that's the fastest way to piss someone off. It dumps you, I feel like.

18:37 But don't you think I should have been like, no, you're not gonna hang out with your ex-girlfriend? Like, I wasn't bothered at all. And she was bothered. I'm like, I feel like we're the re rules are reversed here. Like, I should be the one bothered. You're you're you're done. And they've been done. It's not like they like broke up a couple months, you know, before I showed up.

18:54 Like, they've like been done. Yeah. So that was like really weird. But no, I've I have like my ex, my last ex husband, he tried being friendly. And that to me, like, that I don't like that. Like I don't wish you bad, whatever, have a good life, but like we don't need to be friendly. Like, we don't have kids.

19:15 Yeah, we we don't we're not gonna hang out. We don't need to hang out, like have a good life, but like we're we're not gonna be friends. Yeah.

19:21 Exes, I feel like always want, like, you know, you have that connection, so you're always kind of wanting to be like, hey, maybe we could restart this. There's always like you know, like you hit up an ex and be like, hey, whatever, hit up my ex, maybe we could hook up again. It's like feel like that's why people talk their exes.

19:35 Try to hook up.

19:36 Oh my god, no. Oh no. Have you ever hooked up with an ex? No. No. When it's done, it's done.

19:43 See, I have. You have a couple times, yeah.

19:46 Was the sex better as an ex?

19:48 No, it was not at all. I feel like it was weird too because I was I was with someone else and it was almost like it was a bad situation. And she almost like wanted to be like, oh, like hit me up to hook up with her to like cheat on my parent.

20:07 Like just to be like you did, oh my god.

20:09 And it wasn't like fuck that was worth it. It was just like same shit. Yeah. It was like nothing changed. Yeah.

20:15 I've always wondered that. Like, is the sex better when when you when there's no title on it?

20:20 And if you hate each other, maybe. I feel like if you fucking hate each other, you're just like fucking sh like aggressive. Just like. But if not, you're just like, cool, same old shit.

20:31 Same shit, same shitty orgasm. Or not. Or not. Or lack thereof. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've I don't know. I've never gone back to no. And I remember the one time where like an ex and I were split up and like we did get physical for a little bit. I was like, this is not it.

20:54 I think most of time it just doesn't end up working out the second time. No.

20:57 Have you ever broken up with someone because the sex was bad?

21:01 No. No.

21:02 I haven't either. But I have heard that this is like a thing. I yeah, I've heard that too. I mean, sex is important, but it is. I feel like for the most part, you can teach somebody.

21:10 Yeah, I was gonna say, couldn't you be like, hey, you need to like go on the internet and learn shit or like figure something out.

21:16 But at this stage of our lives, guys, like I just think we're getting a little too old to be teaching old dogs.

21:22 There's so many things you could do, like so many ways you could just chat GPT things, be like, how do I make my girlfriend orgasm?

21:28 And if like But I think if you're doing that, you don't realize you're not making your girlfriend orgasm. You probably think you're doing such a good job, and that's that's the problem. People think they're doing a good job. Like, your poor guy. He probably thought you gave you a dick of a lifetime, and then you just crushed him.

21:49 Oh, he didn't have sex with me. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I let him eat me out.

21:54 Poor guy.

21:55 He's like on a class right now. Damn, that's what it was.

21:59 He's probably so

22:00 He's probably learning right now.

22:02 He was good at it then. Damn, you still yeah, I just didn't. Yeah.

22:08 So what is that telling our audience? Even if you're good.

22:12 Sometimes people just, you know, you want to keep them as friends.

22:16 I get it.

22:17 But you're like, why'd I let my friend do?

22:19 Yeah, why'd you let your friend go down on you?

22:21 Well, I know what I'm doing with Lenny tonight.

22:24 I mean, that's like a what a guy would do. I'd let any of my friends blow me. I would be like, whatever. Yeah, sure. They'd be like, hey, we're just friends, though. I haven't heard of a girl doing that. Especially sweet Lenny. Like, wow.

22:43 No homo. Oh my god. Okay, well, this is uh quite the topic. Do you think fine final question here? Do you think anybody can escape the friend zone? Or once you're in the friend zone, you think you could escape the friend zone?

23:03 I think so. Definitely. You could escape the front zone. No.

23:07 Finally it's Lil Gary. Gary.

23:09 I mean, I think you can. Really? I think I think you I think for the most part you can. I mean, if you change some stuff, maybe about yourself. I don't know. What's I mean, changing that? What's the fastest way to not be in the friend zone in the first place? Like to give guys advice. Like, you know, maybe guys are always like, I feel like I'm always in the friend zone.

23:33 You could do a test. You could see if your friend, that's a girl, is jealous. Like, oh, look at this hot chick I'm talking to right now. That's a good one.

23:42 And if she gets jealous, or if she's like, oh yeah, like you should talk to her, then you know. Yeah. Yeah.

23:48 Would you, I mean, do you think if if a guy, if you friend zone a guy and he's like, I mean, why? Would you be like, honestly, it's just it's not, would you give him like any advice, or would you just be like, it's not, we don't I don't see that with you. So it's nothing like you can change, really. I mean, yeah.

24:03 I would feel like I would be very straight up with that. Like, listen, like I adore you, but like it's just I'm not doing it.

24:10 Yeah.

24:10 I had a I had a guy like that when when I was single for like a very short amount of time, and he wanted to date so bad. And he did all the right things, he was very wealthy. Like, literally, I could have been set up with this guy, like truly, but I was just not feeling him. Like, it was just so many things, and some of them were probably trivial, but for like for me, like height for me is important because like I wear heels and he's like five, two, five, three.

24:42 And like oh, he's always like my height, literally, and and but like, you know, and if I were like six-inch stilettos and I'm next to him, like it looks like I'm with like, you know, like my brother or something. Like it just I don't feel like it looked good. And he tried so hard, and he tried doing all these things and buying me all these things and taking me all these places and doing all this stuff, and it just even though like he checked all the boxes with things that I require, it just couldn't get past it.

25:13 Sometimes you just have to be able to take that and be like, okay, I get it, I understand. Like, you know, and you can't be all like you can't change sometimes and just have to accept it.

25:20 Yeah, you just got to accept it, and unfortunately, and and I and I broke his heart and I told him, like, it's just it's not happening.

25:27 And I think unfortunately, some men, especially those of you that are driven, you push even more when you're told no. And if a girl says no, just no is no.

25:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Poor guys, poor guys. Well, you know, friend zone, it's a real place. Yeah, let us know, guys, in the comments. Yeah.

25:47 What do you want to know in the friend zone? And um, tell us if you ever gotten out of it.

25:53 Yeah, we'd love to know. Well, till next time, guys. Thanks for listening. Cheers. You're so far away. Ugh.