ACOTAR: Feyre Deep Dive - Mysterious Powers, Her Beast Form, and Maasverse Connections -Is She Starborn?!?

0:16 Hello. Hello. I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby, and this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart your favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. How are you today, Abby? I'm so good, I'm so good. Are you so good? Why are you so good? That's a glowing endorsement for your morning.

0:37 I just. Ate breakfast at the beach. Can I just tell you? OK, so for our listeners, I haven't fully moved to the beach, but I've, I've my boyfriend and I bought like a small place up at the beach in New England. But it's kind of that thing. I woke up this morning and it's like, you know, when you're like, you don't even realize that you were like sad.

0:54 And then you're like, oh, shit. I have actually felt terrible for the past couple of months. And now I feel so good. And that kind of happened to me this morning. And so like, yeah, if your mental health is suffering, may I recommend moving to the beach? Just might be a cure all. Might be a cure all, maybe a little inaccessible to most, but I like the. House.

1:15 Perhaps there are. Well, that's good other things to do, but yeah. Oh, I like your black nails. Oh my God. I don't paint my nails often as I. Think now, yeah. Hardly ever, but when I do I always go for this color that I feel like is very popular now called Linkin Park After Dark. Oh my God, Linkin Park After Dark was what I wore exclusively in high school and college. That is all I wore and I haven't painted my nails in years. However.

1:41 It's pretty much always on my toenails because as everybody, I feel like at this point who listens to this podcast knows we run. And so my toenails turn blue and fall off unfortunately. So they're always painted in Linkin Park after dark, but I'm never going to get like anything else on my fingernails so. Yeah, that and OP has a color OPI has a color called You Don't know Jacques, which is like this Gray that I really like, but I haven't painted my nails in years because like this is fun fact, when you're a chef, you can't have your nails painted. It's like a health code violation. So I just, I hadn't done it for years, so and I still haven't but.

2:17 You know, my sister lives here, so she gets manicures and then it's like an easy way for me to just like hang out with her is to also get a manicure. So it's a very recent development in the last like 3 weeks. I'll call. It I haven't I haven't gotten a manicure or a pedicure and since before COVID probably and like I would I want to. It's just like never on my like list of things to do. Takes time.

2:40 Honestly, it takes time. I can't do anything I guess while getting a pedicure I could but like we pedicure manicure. And actually in New York, I think this must be the case everywhere. But they've like, really caught on. So Connor comes with us, which is hilarious because they like don't know what to do with this.

2:55 Like you should see the like paper flip flops on his feet. It covers like maybe 2/3 of his foot. But but they have these little stands now when you're getting manicures, they basically have like a stand for your phone where you can like put it there and like scroll or whatever. So I bring my Kindle and I just like lightly tap to turn the page while I'm. Getting that through now, that's a huge fucking game changer. I know, right?

3:22 Yeah. And I haven't been. To. Like you a salon in years and and I went and I was like, Oh my gosh, I can read my Kindle now. So OK, I'm not so opposed you. Know what else has gotten better, not worse overtime, shockingly is I think movie theaters have gotten way better. It's like to get people to a theater, they need to bring such a level of access to the like theater going experience. And it's like there's this, there's this movie theater in Georgetown.

3:50 The AMC people know it. It's like I literally can lie all the way down. I can like lie flat the chair. Quality has gone up massively. It's like everything is getting worse. Movie theaters and I guess nail salons getting better. You're getting better, Yeah, just as strictly consumer disposable income only activities are improving. Perfect.

4:12 But anyway, how are you? I'm better now that it's getting cooler. You know how I feel about summer. I'm a summer hater, so as the temperature comes down, my mood gradually goes up, even with the absence of any other changes. Yeah, but I agree, it's just. Been so busy honestly I don't know how people 1.

4:33 I don't know how people plan weddings on top of full time jobs 2. I don't know and people just don't I think it's the answer. I don't know how people plan a wedding on top of a full time job and a podcast. Like it's just. Well, I think. Most, I don't think people do that podcast just Yeah, I don't think people do that. Yeah.

4:50 So I'm fine. I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah. You're good. You look great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. Actually find that I look better the worse I feel. Which is Oh no, you must feel terrible. Well it's like a, it's like a fake it till you make it type of mindset. Or I'm like if I just look OK then maybe I will feel OK. Have you considered moving to the beach as previously mentioned?

5:13 Yes, yes, unfortunately not accessible to everybody. We'll get there. We'll. Get there. All right, We are in our A Court of Thorns and Roses season. So this season covers the entirety of the published works within the Court of Thorns and Roses series. That is Akatar, Akamaf, Akawar, Akafas. I never say that one.

5:40 No one ever, says Akafa. A cord of frost and Starlight and a cord of silver flames. Yeah. I was wondering what you were going to do with silver flames there. I didn't get that far. Yeah. ANYWAYS, covers all the books. Disclaimer, These episodes will contain spoilers for all of those books. We will also get to a point in the episode where we will discuss spoilers from other series written by Sarah J Mass, namely Throne of Glass and Crescent City. We will announce those ahead of time. We keep them to the end.

6:09 If you've listened to us before, you know that we have a section of this podcast where we announce we're going to cover mass for spoilers. Now, that is the invitation for anybody who has not read those two series to leave. But if you're the kind of person who likes to be spoiled, which we've heard some people who listen are, then you can you can stay, but you'll be spoiled, OK? Can I actually tell you something? This is kind of a a precursor social media shout out. Someone commented on one of our posts the other day that they did listen to our mass first section hadn't read Crescent City.

6:36 They knew what they were doing. They willingly got spoiled. OK, OK. They listen to the the mass first section of our recent this family deep dive. And she was like, I just want you guys to know that I'm starting Crescent City tonight because of what, because of your theories on that episode. I was like, yes, that's Saturday. Mass We're doing things here.

6:54 If you just want to give us like $1.00 for all of the books we've sold. Even just a like on Instagram. Yeah, just like take it the most casual. Yeah. That's awesome, honestly. Like if I, if I were a hardcore A Court of Thorns and Roses fan who hadn't read anything else, of which there are people out there, like there are people who have just read Acatar and just love Acatar. If I were a big enough fan that I was listening to this podcast, there is no way that I wouldn't have picked up either Crescent City or Throne of Glass by now.

7:25 Yeah. Like what do you? Mean there's half of the episode that is about another series. Like obviously I have to read this. And I hear again, guys, I just want to be so clear as we just as we just stated, Sarah J Maas gives us no money. We make no money off this podcast. This is all for the love of the game, right?

7:41 But like, oh. Love. Even if you don't want to read Crescent City, Throat of Glass is so similar in such good ways to a guitar like, and I don't think anyone's arguing against reading Throne of Glass, but just like I know it's eight books. I know it seems daunting, but like guys, it is so good. I'm I'm in the middle of the my reread right now.

7:58 I literally, I think I cry every day because of something in this book that's a different tune from your first. I was worried about you during the first read. I was like, I don't know if we're going to be able to see eye to eye on this. OK, here's the thing. And these are not spoilers. Again, at the end of my first read, it was my least favorite one in the first read, but it was also like, I had just shoved all this Sarah J mass down my throat, right? And I was just like desperately trying to get through it. I always advocate for second reads of books, right? Like always.

8:27 Like, you know, where the plots going. You can like, pick up on little things a little easier. My God I love it so much. Yeah, I loved it. I don't think. I mean, there are people who think that it is far and away her the best piece of work, which I think it it might be best. I don't think it's like a landslide, but I really like Throne of Glass and I know that a lot of people feel feel the same way. Anyway, that's our plug for The Mass First, but you do not have to have read The Mass First to listen to this podcast, and we love and respect you even if you haven't. Yeah, plenty of Acatar content.

8:56 Free will. We don't care what you do you can be here if you've read none of them, that's a crazy way to spend your time in my opinion, but you can be here. That's totally fine with us. All right. This podcast is also rated R Do not listen to it with your children. We curse. There's also curse words and other things in these series that we talk about, so do not listen to it with your children.

9:16 And each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are digging into our favorite lovely wicked liar, Farrah Archeron of All the. Things to call her. We could call her our favorite hi lady, like so many things we could call her, but I like calling her a wicked liar. It's good. Yeah, she has a lot of interesting descriptors. I mean, she's a lot of things.

9:35 We'll obviously talk about that. Yes, Yeah, I have nothing more to say on that. Anyways, we come with receipts, we have quotes to back up any theories so that you can follow along if you're skeptical, but you don't have to. We don't judge. Abby, would you like to share any announcements with the class?

9:50 Yeah, so we actually do have a couple of announcements today. So First off, as per usual, our deep dive music, which is new this season, if you guys have listened, it is done by a real person, a real artist. His name is Schwudley SCHWOODLEY, He's on Spotify. You should check him out if you like our deep dive music. We love him as a musician and as a person. We've gotten some requests from you guys and we want you to know that we hear you on our favorite topic, the mass first section. So as previously mentioned, some of you have read Throne of Glass and not Crescent City.

10:23 Not a lot who have read Crescent City and not Throne of Glass, but we respect that that exists. And we have heard your request to break those into separate sections. We're not really able to do that. Unfortunately. We don't even know when we make these questions where our answers are going to end up.

10:36 So we can't really break it into separate sections, but what we're going going to start doing is we are going to in our chapter names that we put on Spotify and that we put on YouTube, we are going to say what books are covered in the kind of answers of that question. So we will say what? It's Crescent City.

10:53 Yes, sorry, what series? What series? Because I want to be. So clear guys, we can't break it down to the book level. We love you. We're going to cover these series separately. Going to the book level is too much. Yes, sorry. It will. So it will either say Crescent City or Throne of Glass next to the question name. So if there's any, anything you want to skip, feel free. And you, you can just go chapter by chapter. So again, we'll do our best.

11:15 We really try not to spoil things. We'll try that approach. Let us know how it goes, basically. And then our last announcement, Ron, this is kind of a social media win for us. As of this morning, we have 5000 followers on Instagram, which is absolutely fucking wild, guys. That's really crazy. Thanks silly little podcast that we do for fun.

11:33 So thanks for thanks for coming along. Thanks for joining us on this on this journey. It's super fun and we're glad you're here. Yay. And I mean, maybe just a plug, we don't have a milestone to announce. Well, we've had a few, but like we kind of, I feel like once you hit 5000, you just like skip the next few.

11:48 But we are a few 100 away from 10,000 on TikTok. So maybe if you listen to us and you don't follow us there already, maybe follow us because that would be cool of you. Yeah, it'd be cool. Yeah. All right. Good stuff. Corrections, omissions, social media shoutouts. Abby, do you have any, maybe one more announcement?

12:08 We're going to start doing those for both sections because we know that there are social media shoutouts that we have that are not a Qatar only spoilers and we are not ignoring you. We're just trying to be respectful of everybody who doesn't want to be spoiled. And so we're going to start doing. In my head, I have started calling this cosms. Cosms.

12:26 Corrections, omissions, social media shoutouts. We're going to do cosms for a Qatar only and CAN. We add an O at the end and make it cosmos somehow. Corrections, omissions, social media orations, I don't know. Oration. Yeah. No, no, we'll workshop. Workshop it. We'll workshop it. Anyways, do you have any corrections, omissions or social media shout outs?

12:49 I do. I have one. This is on Reese's family deep dive. We talked about a theory about Tamlin possibly saving Reese's mother's and sister's life. And we were like, yeah, like he could have potentially done it. But then why wouldn't he have told Reese about it in Aquafast, as Ronnie called it, a court of flap frosted Starlight when he's so like down and Reese is coming to help him and they're in the Manor and Tamlin says, will you ever forgive me? It seems like that would have been the moment to tell Reese like, hey, by the way, your mother and sister are actually alive.

13:20 They're OK. And we were like, if they were alive, why wouldn't he have told them? Sith Lord? That is their name on Spotify commented. Maybe Tamlin could have been forced not to say anything about Reese's mother and sister the same way the High Lords were forced with Amarantha to not say anything. So there is some kind of magic, some kind of binding spell within this world that prevents people from saying things. We see it with the High Lords, with Farrah under the mountain. They can't help her with the Riddle, and we know that they're in general just bound to kind of her wealth. Could there be something like that going on? Yeah, totally.

13:55 And I didn't think about it, but it's a great connection to call out. So thank you sis Lord, for that one. I. Want to talk more about that later. Okay, great. I also have one omission or just thing that I wanted to talk more about that we didn't we thought of on the fly and then I I didn't obviously look it up in advance. And so that happens to us a lot.

14:13 So we talked about how interesting and potentially telling it was that Ferrah and her sisters came back as Faye. So context, Ferrah, when she is brought back to life by the seven high Lords comes back as Faye and when her sisters are dipped into the cauldron, they also come out as Faye and they were human before. So they changed forms.

14:34 We use the example of Reese staying the same when he was brought back to life as something that was just like a difference in how these came to be like favorite changed nest, enoline changed, Reese stayed the same. There were actually so many others who were made like brought back to life who also did not change that are like better examples in my opinion because Reese was already fae.

14:57 So Miriam was made, was brought back to life and she was just gifted a long life. She was not gifted a new body. She stayed human even when she was brought back. Same with Jurian. She's half fae. I think Jurian is the obvious example here. Jury Yeah, that's a good point. Miriam was already half a yeah, but she stayed the same. Jurian was brought back to life.

15:17 He stayed the same. Jurian 100%, though Jurian 100% is still human. And Miriam did not get a new body, regardless of whether she was half a half human. Like she didn't get a new body. Farah got a new body, new bones, new blood, new everything was made. Same with her sisters. Yeah, same with her sisters, same with our trunks. Yeah, And why isn't anyone asking these questions in these? What do you mean?

15:41 Like, why isn't Reese like, hey, Jurian, why didn't you come back as Faye? Yeah, no, couldn't tell you. Yep, because I think, I mean I think it is said that Jurian was brought back using the Cauldron like that was absolutely was the king of Hyburn was doing. Yes, that's why they go to the bone Carver to say, hey, could you bring someone?

16:00 This is when I was ranting about how Farrah is like, I can't believe the king of I can't believe someone would be resurrected. And I was like, Farrah, you are resurrected, but they go to the bone Carver and they're like, could you use could you use the cauldron for resurrection? I mean, it happens off page. We don't really know, but yeah, 100% I. Don't know why is she fae maybe?

16:20 We have answers, maybe we don't. All right, should we do her fun question? Fun question are actually fun questions now. Yes, our questions are back to being fun guys. Sorry. We know they were a bit of a drag for a bit. All right, Ronnie, Drag. They were just like, not they were like basically getting into the episode, like we would start the episode. You're right with the question.

16:40 All right, Ronnie, which book contains your favorite version of Pharah? Yeah, my favorite Pharah, I think was a Court of Mist and Fury Pharah. And I say that because I really enjoyed her and who she was when she was healing and like learning to fight. I just love that arc and a character. I liked her in A Court of Thorns and Roses.

17:01 She was very scrappy, very like weak, but emotionally strong. I liked her in A Court of Wings and Ruin. I felt like she had really come into her own and I loved that. But then she also started to get a little holier than thou. So for me, my favorite version of Pharaoh was a Court of Mist and Fury. Pharaoh, especially when she learned how to fight. I totally agree.

17:21 No, it's the same thing. I think missing. Like her healing journey is so good. It's so good. It makes the whole series like it's finding that strength and then, you know, wings and brewing. Yeah, she's good, but she's already kind of like done the hard part. So now she just gets to be like a huge badass, which is great.

17:41 But the scene in hybrid attacks Valeris and she like really comes into her powers just like, so good. Yeah, so good. Her and the water wolves like and that that whole like fighting scene I feel like was something we never really saw out of Farrah again and that makes me a little sad. Like I wish we saw more badass fighting Farrah. Yeah, it's kind of sad, right?

18:04 Because it wings a ruin. She never really goes into the battle. And you're like, which is so actually kind of dumb because they're clearly right next to water in that final battle and because like, the ships arrive, right? So like, why isn't she out here using her water wolves to just like, destroy?

18:19 Shit, she's super powerful too. Like you've got Helion and Reese in full beast mode and she is not engaged at that point. Yeah. Well, she has to find. The Cauldron. Yeah, she she's doing stuff. I'm not saying she's not being important. I'm not. It's like, Dang, it was a missed opportunity for us to see fair, like really fight.

18:37 Yeah, OK. I agree. All right. Should be deep. Dive. Yeah, I gotta get my gotta get my head in the game here. Just like it's such a good mood right now. I don't. Know all right, deep dive Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo oh. No, that's not. Is that our deep dive music? That's our intro music. Yeah, our intro music, is that the deep dive? I can think of it in my.

18:59 I'm totally. Flanking on it. That's not it is. Yeah, that is really Harry Potter vibes. Like kind of Harry Potter vibes. It's true, right? I mean, you were singing that. I was like, no, that's Harry Potter music. That's yeah, you're right, You're right. Look, it's becoming a singing podcast. All right, Abby, what are favours powers and where do they come from all? Right, you guys strap in.

19:32 We have a long fucking list here. Some of these I didn't even really dive into. I just kind of listed them. All right, and jump in whenever you want. First of all, she can winnow. She gets that from Reese. I don't really think we need to dive into that. She gets that from Reese. She's also a Damati, which she also gets from Reese.

19:47 I don't think we need. Let me know if you want to jump in and talk about these at all. I don't think we need to talk about them. She gets darkness and shadows, which again, she gets from Reese. That ability to kind of cast night everywhere. So we see. Couple examples of this when Tamlin locks her in the house in 1/4 of Miss and Fury she wraps herself in a cocoon of darkness and fire and ice and wind, but darkness being the first one so she can kind of control the darkness. Chapter 64 she is again trying to shield herself. In 1/4 of Miss and Fury she says tons and wings and shadows were instantly around me surrounded by water and fire. This is a side note for a different episode, but I really don't know the difference

20:28 between Azrael's shadow wielding and Reese's like darkness night wielding, but that's a different topic for a different time. Yeah, for now, clearly different. Yeah. I don't know they're. Said to be different several times. I agree with you though. Like those shadows? I don't know what they are. Right, so she has the darkness and the night that Reese has. She cannot cloak herself in shadows the way that Azrael can and kind of move invisibly.

20:52 She can't do that. She has the wall water wielding from Tarkin. Tarkin as we talked about. So she does the water wool. She also makes animals in the bathtub when she's practicing. Can I tell you, I once read a review of a court of Miss and Fury and the literally the only review is this book is so stupid.

21:08 The main character spends time making water animals in the bathtub instead of fighting a war. And I was like, that is such a simplification of this book. Fuck you. Also, like, what an interesting thing to if you're really going to insult this book, I feel like you could pick on bigger plot points than the little water animals in the bathtub. Yeah, anyway, fire welding, which she gets from Baron, so we see her wield fire with Lucian against Aris and his brothers. That's kind of the biggest example. But again, she's wrapping herself in these cocoons of darkness and fire and ice and wind. Again, she should have known about Tamlin's wind power way ahead of time because she has wind power and she doesn't wonder where she got it from.

21:48 Anyway, next on Oh, she has ice wielding from Calius, so we see her wheeled ice also wield ice against Eris and his brothers in the Winter Court. She says ice. I had ice in my veins, and now that we were over the border of the Winter Court, I didn't care if they saw it. My power, Callias's power. Not when the alternatives were far worse. So she can wield ice.

22:07 Interesting that her wielding abilities get stronger seemingly if she's in the court where they're from. I think that's just an interesting thing, something to keep in mind with the way the magic of this world works. Not necessarily something we'll dive into this episode, but just an interesting idea. The wind wielding she gets from Tamlin as previously mentioned. So she puts a shield of hardened wind around herself to protect herself from from Tamlin's explosion in the study. And that's the same hearted wind that he uses to keep her in the Spring Court manner.

22:34 So this wind, I know she thinks she only sees it when they're escaping hybrids camp, but like Tamlin's actually been wielding this wind. She's been wielding this wind for way longer than that Shifting we also get from Tamlin. So she shifts herself into looking like Yanthi to get into the King of Hybrin's war camp.

22:52 This I did not pick up from my first read. She also fully shifts herself into Tarkin when they're looking for the book of breathings, which I did not pick up on the first read, but she actually does fully shift herself. And then she also shifts herself to have wings. We know frequently. All right, glamouring.

23:08 She also gets glamouring from Tamlin. So we have 4 powers now from Tamlin when wielding shifting glamouring. Sorry, 33 powers from Tamlin. So she glamours Elaine to look mortal when they go to see Elaine's ex fiance, right? So she can actually do the glamouring that Tamlin did to her at the beginning, which again go back to our Tamlin episode.

23:29 But we think Tamlin can do two types of glamouring, one of which may just be being a. It's a whole thing. Go listen to our Tamlin episode if you have. Interesting point on that one that I'm only just thinking of. I know that it says that she glamoured Elaine. Do you think that she can also shift others the way that Tamlin does I. Do right like I know, but it says she glamoured Elaine. But she should.

23:51 Be able to shift Elaine. Yeah, yeah. OK, Yeah, maybe she doesn't know that she can yet. Well, this is what. I'm saying she's been wielding this wind. She literally is wielding wind from the beginning of mist and Fury, right? She like wraps her herself in these cocoons of wind and she didn't know she had it. So yeah, I don't I don't know.

24:08 She doesn't realize it's kind of like always this way with like magic systems, right? You don't realize the power you can wield until you someone tells you, right? I think it's kind of what's happening here. All right. She also has healing power from fasten in the Dawn Court. So her blood when Reese gets shot with the blood bane arrows and he's like dying in The Cave and she goes and talks to the cereal.

24:31 The cereal tells her her blood will heal Reese so she gives him her blood and he he is healed from the poison. She also wants to heal Azreal when the king of highborn shoots him with a similar arrow but she can't get to him in time so her blood is literally a cure all. I guess that's the penicillin of Prythian basically. Here's where it gets kind of interesting, and we've talked about this a bit, where Helion's powers come in. So she certainly has the spell breaking slash unraveling power that Helion has from Decor, right? So she breaks the spells on her while being held by the King of Highburn and his palace at the end of Miss and Furies. The way that she breaks the spell is by talking to it, right?

25:16 So she literally talks to the spell. She says I am Faye and not Faye. All in none. I told the spell that grips me. I told the spell that gripped me, right? You do not hold me. I am as you are, real and not little more than gathered wisps of power. You do not hold me. You do not hold me. You do not hold me.

25:33 The fist gripping my power relaxed, vanished. So she breaks the spell here. She does not do it with a flash of light. There is no flash of light. The king of Hybrid has not realized she has done this. She breaks the spell just by talking to it, then later. When she breaks the spell by talking to it and relating to it, she's like, right? Basically use.

25:54 It seems like she's using the fact that she's made to break the spell. Yeah, potentially. Yeah, real or not, little more than gather whisk of power. But she's not saying I am like you like she does when she's talking to the book. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's interesting when she breaks the words on the kings of King of Hyburns castle that does come with a white light, right?

26:15 So I want to talk about this a bit. So she says, and this is chapter 66 of Mist and Fury, a purifying clear power. Curse breaker, Spell breaker. The light wipes through every physical trapping, showing me the snarl, the snarls of spells and glamour, showing me the way through. I burned brighter looking, looking, buried inside the bone walls of the castle.

26:36 The wards were woven strong. I sent that blinding light flaring once more, a distraction and sleight of hand as I severed the wards at their ancient arteries. So this time she does seem to be using a light to kind of like probe and find the wards and break them. So it's like sometimes she can just talk to it, sometimes she needs a light. I don't know if that's a writing thing or something more. I want to talk about it a bit more. She glows.

27:02 She certainly glows from Helion, right? So this is important. I think Helion has two different abilities here. He has the Spellbaker ability, and he has the glowing ability. So the first time we see her do this, she glows with Reese. This is chapter 55, everyone's favorite chapter. His smile faded into something odd, something reverent, and I reached out to cup his face in my hands to find my skin glowing faintly, as if some inner light shone beneath my skin, leaking out into the world, warm and white light like with the sun, like a star.

27:31 So she's not unraveling a spell here or anything. She's just glowing, right? Like this is just glowing. We later see Helion glow when he's going into battle in Wings and Bruins. So Reese's snarl shook the earth, but it was Helion glowing with white light who stepped forward to face the male, claws sinking deep into the mud.

27:49 So this is Chapter 7 of Wings of Ruin. This is the only time we see Helion glow, as far as I can tell. But he is, he is glowing the way that Pharaoh is glowing. So it's not, it's not spell breaking. It's not like Helion's glowing is does not seem to be a weapon. He's just growing. OK, so we have spell breaking, we have the glowing.

28:08 Then we have, first of all, before I get into this, do you have anything that I've missed so far? Because there is one more that I want to talk about. We talked about glamouring, they talked about healing, shifting, spell breaking. No. Not other than just being made, no. Okay, there are times where we see Pharah wields a white light and it doesn't really seem to have any explanation.

28:28 Sometimes she seems to wield it as a weapon, sometimes it's just to blind. Again, we never really see Helion do anything like this. We never really see any of the High Lords do anything like this. There are some people we see do this and I'm going to get into it, but here, here are the quotes. Reese reached for me, and this is back in Highburn.

28:45 This is Miss and Fury chapter 66. So this is when she releases that glowing white light. Reese reached for me, but I unleashed my power. A flash of that white light, pure light. All that could escape with the damper from the King's spell. A flash of the light that was only for Reese, only because of Reese. I hoped he understood.

29:02 So couple things going on here. This light is not when she is breaking the words around the palace, right? Like she has already done that. This light, she says specifically, is a sleight of hand just for Reese. So this is not glowing. This is a powerful blinding white light that kind of erupts from her.

29:19 We don't really know where she got this power from. We haven't really seen anyone else use this power. She says it's a stride of a sleight of hand. She says it's a distraction. That's the first time we see her use it. The second time in is is in A Court of Wings in Ruin, chapter 13. I didn't give Eris time to read my move.

29:35 I sucked in a sharp breath. White blinding light erupted from me. Eris swore and I ran. No spells to unravel here. There are no spells, this is just again white blinding light erupting from her. The last one is the Council of the High Lords. So Baron's flame barrier slammed into my water hard enough that ripples began to form, steam hissing amongst them.

29:56 So I buried my teeth and sent a fist of white light punching into that fiery shield. The white light of day. Spell breaker Ward Cleaver. Baron's eyes widened as his Shields began to fray and that water pushed in. So there she is, actually using the white light to get through Shields. That could be the spell breaking, but I'm not 100% sure because like it's kind of it's, she doesn't always need the white light for the spell breaking. So we have some inconsistencies here. It's kind of it's kind of strange. I'm not saying we have an answer for it, but like it does seem like sometimes Farrah glows and she also has a powerful white light that she can use to kind of erupt from her. She also sometimes uses it to

30:34 break spells, but sometimes she doesn't need it. Other people that we see with a white, blinding white, again, not high Lords, but there are other people that we see that have it. The first one is Amarantha. So the quote is then Reese and was on his feet, my bloody knife in his hands. He launched himself at Amarantha, swift as a shadow, the ash dagger aimed at her throat. She lifted a hand, not even bothering to look, and he was blasted back by a wall of white light. So this is white light that like has power right Next one unsurprisingly, king of Hyburn.

31:06 So the king cut me off. I would suggest bracing yourselves. And then hell exploded in the hall. Power, white and unending and hideous barreled into us. This is the blow that shreds Cassian's wings in the king of hybrids house. All right, next person the cauldron. All right, so the quotes here for it was from the rocky outcropping that a battery gram of death white light hurdled for our army just about level with the Illyrian Legion in the sky.

31:32 That's Aqua war chapter 70 and then this too and on earthly female shriek broke from deep in the hybrid forces a sister's warning and pain just as that white light slammed into the bone Carver. So that's the bone Carver dying right. So this white light clearly has the power of death behind it, not just blinding it is actual explosive. The next one that we absolutely see on the page, there are a couple people we see Lucian says that his friend Nuan from day court has this power, but we don't actually see that. So I'll mention it, but I don't really know what that looks like.

32:01 The next person we see use a white blinding light like this is nest up right? So she the quote there is white burning power shot out of her palm and slammed into his chest. That's when she's fighting the king of Highburn. In chapter 74, we have Tamlin and Lucian kind of using white light, but it's not like this. It's kind of like a soft glow.

32:20 So basically Farrah occasionally has this white blinding light. We don't really know what it can do. And every other person that we see with this white blinding light has a deep connection to the cauldron, right? I don't know what it is. I don't know. It could be something, could be nothing. Classic Ronnie. But there's definitely threats of this in here. What do you think?

32:41 Denominator seems to be, well, it's not Highburn really, right? It's because if it's Amarantha Highburn, the cauldron, it could be hybrid or it could be the cauldron itself. That's the common denominator of all of these. So I think the oddest one out to me actually of all of those in terms of trying to draw how they could be related as Amarantha, like how did Amarantha get white light?

33:03 I don't know. Yeah, again, could be nothing, be nothing could. Be nothing. Yeah, yeah. The the usage of like flares of light in general across magic in the series, not just Feras is inconsistent and perhaps intentionally confusing, but definitely confusing. Like Lucian uses white light, but he does not. So it's like a flare of light and then he sleeps or he's got like a gag of white light that actually is doing something in Tamlin's mouth and then doing something in Tamlin's mouth gagging Tamlin.

33:34 But we also know that Lucian has aliens power. So yeah, that exactly is he. It's hereditary in that regard. So. Right. So there's there's. Inconsistencies among kind of this white light and how it's used again, could be something could be nothing but say or certainly has some kind of white light could just be as simple as glowing from Helion could be could be more connected to Amarantha, King of Highburn, Cauldron and Nesta. Not sure the glowing, even though we see Helion do it. I think we are called to question it because when Farrah asks Reese whether it's from Helion, he says I don't care. And he say yes.

34:11 Pretty forthcoming about where he thinks all of her gifts come from, but not that one. Yeah. 100% agree. 100% agree with that. And he knows helium pretty well. So you think Well. Helium does glow. We see helium glow I. Know we see helium glow yeah. One time. One time. One time yeah. OK cool. Anything. Else up.

34:32 There, no, I mean you covered, you covered all of them. You went list by list. By list, I mean I think the important thing to distinguish in my notes is the traceability of her powers. So we have traceability of seemingly every power except for the occasional white light, like in the all of her powers traced to a high Lord of some type.

34:54 Yeah. I agree. I agree. All right, Ronnie, what is Pharah's connection to the Cauldron? Yes. Good transition. So Farah is brought back to life, right? And so Farah is said to have been made when the High Lords bring her back from the dead. And we hear this from Pharaoh, which is, you know, Pharaoh just in our own head.

35:14 But we also hear it confirmed by Amarin, right? So Farah says, I'd been made, resurrected and given this new body by the seven High Lords of Prythian. I wasn't Tamela's made yet, as far as I knew. Amarin later confirms this, and Amarin basically recognizes her as as made because she is made, and Amarin says only once before was a human made into an immortal.

35:34 Interesting that it should happen again right as all the ancient players have returned. But Miriam was gifted long life, not a new body. And you, girl? She sniffed again. And I never felt so laid bare. Surprise lit Amarin's eyes. Reese just nodded. Whatever that meant. I was tired already. I personally just think that's Amarin recognizing that she's Reese's mate. Yeah, I think so.

35:56 Your very blood, your veins, your bones were made immortal soul in an immortal body. So we're given this definition of made as it pertains to Pharaoh in this capacity. And the High Lords together were able to bring her back to life. She had no interaction with the Cauldron, right? This was not a Nesta or an Elaine situation where she's like chucked into the cauldron. She comes out and she's made.

36:18 She's just made by these high Lords. So the cauldron, we're introduced to the Cauldron in spring, right? We're told that the cauldron was the origin of this world, and that its contents were dumped into a void. And so that quote is it began with a cauldron, a mighty black cauldron held by glowing, slender female hands in a starry, endless night.

36:37 Those hands tipped it over, golden sparkling liquid pouring out over the lip. No, not sparkling, but effervescent, with small symbols, perhaps of some ancient fairy magic. Whatever was written there, whatever it was, the contents of the cauldron were dumped into the void below, pooling on the earth to form our world.

36:54 So the cauldron is this vessel that made all things. So by this logic, if the cauldron made all things and Pharah is made, then whatever these 7 High Lords have together somehow produced the power of the cauldron. And we kind of get this confirmed when Pharah is tricked into touching the cauldron by Ameren during the battle against Tyburn, and she describes it as a living bond.

37:19 She survives this cauldron, and this cauldron takes her over the course of the battle with it to see things. And so the point here is even though Farrah never interacted with the cauldron at all in the process of being made, she was made and had this connection to the cauldron through being brought back to life by these 7 High Lords.

37:41 So what about these 7 High Lords converges to the same power of the cauldron? I think that's the question. I think that's the question. Have an answer, but I think that's the question and the connection. Might have an answer. I don't know that it's all 7 high Lords. I think it might be one in particular. So I want to talk about the Book of Breathings. I know this is a question about the Cauldron. And yeah, just to reiterate what you said on 1st read, this doesn't really make any sense, right? Pharaoh would have a connection to the Cauldron when she has absolutely nothing to do with the Cauldron, with her kind of resurrection story.

38:16 It doesn't make any sense. Obviously, Nest and Elaine makes sense. This not so much. We talked, Did we talk last episode about the Book of Breathings? Have we talked about the Book of Breathings? Or did I just do this in my notes and think we had a conversation about it? All right. I. Talked, I think we talked about it about.

38:30 We talked about it with Reese's family because of the Weaver. All right, so the bone Carver thinks that Pharaoh should have a connection to the Cauldron and the book of Readings because she was made as you just mentioned. So the quote is the book was believed harmless because like calls to like and only that which was made can speak to those spells and some on its power. No creature born of the earth may wield it. So the High Lords and humans dismissed it as little more than a historical heirloom.

38:53 But if the book were in the hands of something reforged, you would have to test the theory, of course, but it might be possible. The High Lords don't think that they can kind of have this book, use this book. So it's not, I don't think that they realize if they do have this connection to the cauldron, that they have a connection to the cauldron or whether or not it's just one of them in particular. Like, I don't think they realize that they have this power. But in general, the book was seen as useless because nothing had been made for centuries, right? When we meet the book, there are a lot of parallels between the book and between Reese.

39:29 So how she feels the book, she says I can feel it. I breathe like a clawed hand running down my spine. Indeed my skin tingled, hair standing on end beneath my warm my warm Leathers. When she meets Reese, this is when he comes to the Manor, she says I couldn't move. An invisible talent tipped hand scraped against my mind and I knew 1 push, one swipe of those mental claws and who I was would cease to exist. So we have a clawed hand running down her spine for the book and talent tipped hands clawing against her mind, scraping down her mind.

40:04 When she meets Reese, when she's looking for the book and the summer Court, she says there's a thing in her chest of power, in her chest saying where are you? Where are you? Where are you? When Reese gets back to Valeris after Farah, after Farah has gone back to the Supreme Court, he thinks, where is she? Where is she?

40:22 Where is she? There's a lot of triplicates. In Sarah J Mash, she does this a lot, but those two are so similar that I think there's, there's something there. She says the power of the book seduced her. She says indeed, that power was filling the chamber, my head, my lungs, smothering and drowning and seducing.

40:40 She specifically uses the word seduce. Obviously she uses the word seduce with Reese, like a lot, right? Like Reese's like constantly seducing her. I realize you're looking at me skeptically. I hear what you're saying, but I think so I went down this path to I was like, could Reese? Are you saying that Reese could have just brought her back?

40:57 No, but I'm saying that she has the connection to the cauldron through Reese. Something about Reese has a connection to the cauldron and I think that's why she gets it. Not every high Lord, but because it's through Reese. Yeah, and that would work, but I guess then what I like, and so maybe it's just maybe independently, Reese has a connection to the Cauldron and these 7 High Lords have the power to bring somebody back to life.

41:21 Yeah, no, I don't think that Reese has this resurrection power on his own. I don't think he can do that. I think you need the seven High Lords to bring someone back. But I think she has the connection to the Cauldron because of. Reese. And we never see, we never really see Reese interact with the Cauldron. So we don't really have an example of this, but like, Reese does not go to the palace in Hybrid specifically because the king of Hybrid can track his magic. So like, we never get to see what it would have been like if Reese had interacted with the cauldron. Like they're always kind of kept apart, right? And then Reese is on the battlefield while Pharah is dealing with the cauldron.

41:56 So could be nothing. Again, could be nothing. So then why would they need Farrah or Nesta to be involved with tracking the cauldron if Reese is connected to it as well? I. Don't know if Reese like knows. Like I don't know, I just don't know if Reese like knows he has this ability. And again, I could be wrong but I have if Reese is made, maybe he doesn't realize it. Like he's no matter what they need Farrah to track the book, right?

42:22 Because Farrah can pretend to be Tarkin like Reese can't pretend to be Tarkin. Yeah, and that makes sense. But having that's described for the Cauldron specifically, yeah, instead, I don't know, I could be wrong. He might not realize it. Yeah. OK, that's interesting. All right, all right, so Abby, what is Pharah's beast form? And what does Pharah see in the Uroboros mirror? All.

42:44 Right. So I just want to start with some context with the Urobor, Uroboros, Uroboros, Uroboros and some interesting kind of connections I found here. All right, so the Bone Carver call calls the Uroboros a window to the world. The serial calls it the mirror of beginnings and endings, right? So we kind of two different two different names for it.

43:06 We have a quote about it. It was old even when we were young. A window to the world. All could be seen, all could be told through its dark surface. Kier possesses it and heirloom of his household. Bring it to me. That is my price, the Uroboros and I am yours to wield if you can find a way to free me.

43:23 So that's what the bone Carver says to Pharah. Fun little side note here, right? We talked about Briaxis in the Bone Carver in a different episode, but the Bone Carver asked for the Uroboros to to fight in this war against Highburn from Ferret calls it a window to the world. Briaxis just asked for a straight up window, right? So both of them are looking for a window for whatever reason, which I thought was a fun little time. Say they're looking for a window or say that whatever. Just straight up doesn't want it when he has the right. Not really what he's after.

43:53 Yeah. To take the Era Burrows to claim it, you must first look into it. He headed for the doors, not wanting to be dismissed. This is Kier talking, and everyone who's attempted to do so has either gone mad or been broken beyond repair, Even a high Lord or two, if legend is true. So it is yours if you dare to face it. This is Kier telling Farah about the Era Burrows in the Court of Nightmares.

44:12 What I thought was interesting about this is this idea that looking upon it is madness. You called out this quote. I think in our Amaranth episode, Ferris says something similar about Amarantha. So she says while her ebony's eyes shown, there was something that sucked at her beauty, some kind of permanence near to her features that made her allure seem contrived and cold. To paint her would have driven me to madness. So I think that's just a fun idea to think about. Might there be a connection between Amarantha and the Earl Burrows?

44:38 I don't know. I don't know. I'm just asking questions, all right. So Farrah decides to retrieve the Euro Burrows the night before the battle with Highburn. She describes it, she says, and they're against the far wall of the chamber, snow crushing its surface. It's bronze casing. It was a massive round disc, as tall as I was taller.

44:57 And the metal around it had been fashioned after a massive serpent. The mirror held within its coils as it devoured its own tail. So it's a large disc. It does not actually reflect things, right? She says. It has a dark surface. It is not a mirror. You could do your makeup and like, it's not really a mirror. It's kind of like a window, a window to the world, as the bone Carver said.

45:19 So then we get this description of her beast form. I guess we should talk about this. It's not confirmed that this is her beast form. I'm just kind of assuming this is her beast form. Well, she. Describes it as herself, right? And before we move off of that, can we just, Maybe this is obvious to everybody, but I just feel like it's worth pointing out in case you don't know, I only know of this because of the term Uroboros financing Uroboros is a snake that eats itself.

45:43 So the surrounding frame of this mirror is an Uroboros snake, right? And this mirror is said to drive anybody who looks into it mad, except for apparently a select few. And so this mirror is effectively a mirror that forces you to destroy yourself or overcome yourself. One of the two. So I think I actually think it's a really cool name for a mirror.

46:08 But yes, I I hear what you're saying. Like Farrah, I think she uses the exact words she says. What? It's what lurks beneath my skin. Yeah. Is it her beast form? I don't know. But it's what lurks beneath her skin. Right. Yeah. So we're assuming it's her beast form. That is not 100% confirmed, but I feel pretty good about it. All right, so the description of it is crawling down the snow kissed wall, a massive beast of claws and scales and fur and shredding teeth inch towards the floor, toward me, some guardian of this place, some creature that had crawled in through the cracks.

46:38 It's enormous paws we're near silent on the floor, the fur on them a blend of black and gold. Not a beast designed to hunt in these mountains, certainly not with the Ridge of dark scales down its back and the large shining eyes. I didn't have time to remark on those blue Grays, blue Gray eyes as the beast pounds. So I don't have a firm answer on what this is. I don't know what this is, but I think there's a couple of interesting kind of questions we can ask, parallels we can draw. So first thing, claws and scales and fur and shredding teeth. Nesta describes Reese's beasts form in her mind as having claws and scales and teeth.

47:12 So I think that's drawing a connection to Reese saying they're kind of the same underneath their skin, right? They're, they're of the same ilk, if you will. And Nesta also, when she goes into the cauldron, tears at it with claws and teeth and talents. So it's like something about these Archron girls.

47:29 They have claws and teeth and talents at their most basic form. Farah describes this as a creature that had crawled in through the cracks. This one's kind of a stretch. This sounds to me she's talking about like the where she is in the Union City. It also sounds to me kind of like the rips in the universe that we know that Ameren fell through.

47:48 I don't know that that's what it's supposed to sound like, but she says specifically it's a not a beast designed to hunt in these mountains. We don't know a lot about the like topography, the geography of Prythian. But like does she mean this isn't like literally not a beast of this world? Is this from somewhere else?

48:03 We talked about Archeron family deep dive last week. Like we don't have we don't know a lot about their family like that they have some outcome from another world many, many eons ago as well. I don't know. I don't have a firm answer on that one. That was kind of my only idea on the beast. The only other thing that I thought was interesting about this mirror was she actually says she goes into the mirror.

48:24 So she says I did not know how long had passed time. It had been different inside the mirror. So like we don't see her go and step into the mirror or anything, but she says time had been different inside the mirror. I don't know if that means, just like looking at herself, she of times, or if we're dealing with some kind of altered plane of reality here.

48:43 Yeah, that's what I had Mirror of Arrows said vibes for. Sure, huge Mirror of Arrows said. Vibes. Yeah. I have a couple additional ideas but it's it's in the same vein right? I interpreted what she is looking at as her beast form, whether she ever shifts into it or not. Like I don't know. I don't really think it matters honestly.

49:02 But like you said, it's it's a beast with a fur that is a blend of black and gold and has a Ridge of dark scales down its back that continues over its tail. Right. So she's got this like wolf, lion, Wyvern type mix going on. She has. Scales and fur. She has scales and fur, which we've not seen necessarily any beast form even that we've seen of other high Lords take that short sort of form.

49:28 And so I want to talk about Tamlin's and Reese's forms as well, because you call that Reese's form already. Reese's beast form, which we see right in the battle against Tyburn. The description is the talons came first, replacing fingers and feet, then dark scales or perhaps feathers. I couldn't get a look at them.

49:46 Covered his legs, his arms, his chest, his body, contorted bones and muscles growing and shifting. The beast form Reese had kept hidden never likes to unleash unless it was dire enough to do so. Before the cauldron swept me away, I beheld what happened to his head, his face. It was a thing of nightmares, nothing human or Faye in it. It was a creature that lived in black pits and only emerged night to hunt and feast the face. It was those creatures who had been carved into the rock of the Court of Nightmares that made-up his throne. So the Court of Nightmares has tons of imagery of the scale black beasts carved into the Court of Nightmares with claws, talons, fangs, just like you said. Right?

50:25 So I think it does point to her connection to Reese. Tamlin's beast form is a gigantic beast with golden firm. So that beast had to be large as a horse, his body somewhat feline, his head distinctly wolfish and also had dagger like claws and yellow fangs. So this is a little bit more of a literary tilt, but I think this could be Farrah looking at herself in in a deeper way, right?

50:50 We're said that she has a mortal heart and an immortal body. Is she now seeing like that? She is partially still her human self that love Tamlin, like Farrah as a human love Tamlin and now her face self is with Reese, loves Reese is Reese's mate. Like is she basically seeing a blend of her as a human and a blend of what she is as now high Fey? Yeah, I love that.

51:13 Idea and that's why it's got black and gold fur too, right, because the gold is like her human. I love that the gold is like her her. You know Tamlin Faye side cuz Reese's has got to be something else, yeah. And I like that too, because it fits in with the Carver, because what fascinates the Carver about her is that she's something new, right?

51:32 Like she is both human and Faye. And if what he wanted her to do was basically like accept that, then I think that totally works. Yeah, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, but like, Ameren's only knows that Fair will be able to help her with the Cauldron by herself after she knows that Farrah was able to overcome the Uroboros. So was that just because Farrah mentally could overcome the Oroboros, or was it related to what she actually is? Like, is there something specific about what you have to be to make it out of the Oroboros that made Amran confident?

52:06 Like a Farrah can just do this Cauldron thing by herself. I do not need Nesta. I don't know. Cool. All right, anything else on that one? OK, well that was quick. Well, it felt quick, but it's been an hour. OK, well, that was our ACOTAR only section of this podcast. We will now be getting into mass verse spoilers.

52:27 So if you have not read all of Throne of Glass and all of Crescent City, we love you. Please leave or stay, but you were going to be spoiled. And as Abby mentioned, I think in the future we'll be trying to mark the chapters with the series spoiler specifically. So if we don't get into both series, we'll mark it as such so that you can come back and look at that specific chapter. And that is unfortunately the closest we're going to get to splitting up the mass verse section. So here we go.

52:56 Final warning, throw glass spoilers, Crescent City spoilers, a guitar spoilers. Love you. Bye. OK. All. Right Abby, do you have any corrections, omissions or social media shoutouts for mass verse only cosms? Yes, I have. As you guys know, I'm doing my Throne of Glass reread and I will occasionally find things that I think enhance previous theories that we've had. So I was reading the section in Queen of Shadows where they go into the Temple of Truth underneath rift hold, which is the temple full of bones.

53:26 They realize it's been around for a super long and there's all these word marks on the wall behind the altar. The word marks Aylan is able to read and it's talking about the Val kings and it says it says to look upon a Val king was to gaze into madness, despair. I don't know that symbol. So we don't have confirmation on what that symbol is, but Aylan says it could be madness almost word for word what is said about Amarantha when Pharisees Amarantha, right?

53:53 And we read that quote before, but basically to paint her would drive Pharaoh to madness. I it's just kind of Canon in my mind at this point that Amarantha and the king of Hyburn are absolutely 100% Valk like. I just think that the, the, the more you look for it, the more evidence there is. And then I have one social media shout out.

54:12 Sorry, I did not write the name down, but this goes back to our Reese's family episode. We were talking about Reese's mom seeing the future using blood Bane. Someone commented said, oh, will Elaine use blood Bane in the next book to see the future, too? I think that's a fun idea. Maybe she could.

54:26 Yeah. So just the idea if Elaine is going to use blood Bane in the next book. Yeah. That would be fun. Imagine if that comes true. That's a fun thing to for somebody to have on record out there in the universe. But they thought that was going to happen. Yeah. I wish I I hold on, I can get their name real quick. I think I can.

54:43 I started experimenting with the video dubbing. I think I can get it in. OK, cool. If you tell me, we'll just say it so that I have it. Give me two seconds. That was a Deandra Maurici. Deandra Maurici. OK, perfect. Yay. It's weird. I'm like breathing lighter now that we're in mass first because it's so. Guys, I can't fucking tell you how stressful this is. I.

55:07 Hate everything that's not. Like trying to navigate the minefield that is spoilers and have coherent theories and actually say what we think is happening. Like, yeah, I yeah, this is hard. This is really hard. We're doing our best, guys. OK. Any other cosms? No. Do you have any cosms? I have a couple cousins 1 was so last week.

55:31 This is just a fun anecdote for everybody who doesn't live in podcast world. So I try to edit our first one right after we finish and I was which is. Wild, guys. What, Because we record for five to six hours and then Ronnie sits down and starts fucking editing these episodes. So kudos to Ronnie, because it's crazy. 10:00 every week night. Like I'm left with limited options. So I added it right afterwards.

55:55 And we talked last episode about Reese's mother and sister and why they would be sent to Midgard. And I was editing this episode and I was like, Oh my gosh, Abby, Abby, I texted you a bunch of just random BS and maybe it's not interesting, but I want to talk about it. So in last episode we talked about Reese's mother and sister dying and thinking about could they have potentially made it to another world? Could they have potentially made it over to Midgard? So we know that the Valg, the Osteria and the Princess of hell, if they're all different, if they're all the same regardless, like to cross beat crossbreed experimental beings, examples witches, the Illyrians hunt Athlar Thunderbirds, like kind of endless, in my opinion,

56:38 the number of of experimental crossbreeds they've come up with. They're big on breeding. And we also talked about how we think it's possible for Reese's mother and sister to be alive in another world. And could Tamlin have helped them by using his shifting powers? But we don't really have like a motive for Tamlin to have helped Reese's mother and sister escape except for just like love for Reese.

57:00 But like, why would why would he have sent them away? Like what would have been the intent? It just felt like a little bit of a broken, a broken story. And so I think there's three things that I, we forgot to consider. I don't know whether these are right, but I just want to put them out into the universe. 1 Tamlin's father likely also had the shifting power.

57:17 That's 1/2. The Spring Court was allied with both hybrid and the Autumn Court, right? And the Autumn Court are the fae that migrated to Midgard. So there's an alliance between Spring and Autumn and Autumn went over there. And three, that Lauren was specifically selected by the Autumn King for breeding.

57:36 Was Tamlin's father involved in sending over either Reese's mother or sister? I think it's probably sister for the purposes of breeding. Because she's starborn, because she's starborn, because she's starborn, she's starborn. And she has Damati blood. So she was Illyrian, which was a desirable quality. Quality by like the Valg and the Asteria, like they, they bred it, right?

57:58 Or the Asteria, at least, where I'm assuming they're the same. But the Asteria, she's Damati, and she's Starborn. Could she? Well. We don't know that she's Damati, but she at least has a Damati bloodline, yeah. But Rune is Damati, so whoever was sent, like, Lauren had the Damati blood. Yeah. So like, she has all of these appealing genetic qualities. Was she sent over there for the purposes of breeding Rune? Because we know that Einer had this kind of obsession with the fae regaining their power.

58:26 Einer is the Autumn King, guys. He's not mentioned by name. Yes, much. Sorry. Yes, the Autumn is obsessed with the fae regaining their power. OK, so just studying in different worlds, like he had an Orary, orary, orary, Ori, Ori. He had the thing that shows the different realms. And Reese has one, too.

58:45 So, like, Reese might suspect that this is the case. I don't. I think this is a really interesting theory, and I just want to say it back to you to make sure that I'm getting it. This is, like, the first time I felt revved off this whole episode. Fuck, yeah. Let's go. We're in mass first. All right.

58:58 Tamlin did not save Reese's mother and sister. Tamlin might have had nothing to do with this. Tamlin's father kidnapped, maybe killed. Reese's mother kidnapped. Reese's sister slammed her mother, shifted her wings, sent her to Midgard to specifically breed with the Autumn King because she is Starborn and because the Autumn King wanted a Starborn heir.

59:22 We know she Starborn. Go back to our Reese's family deep dive. She is just descended of Celine of Vesperus. She is Starborn. He wanted a Starborn heir. Obviously it didn't really work that well, right? Because Rune does not Whatever. We can get into that later. I actually think we'll get into that in the Nest episode, but Rune Starborn?

59:39 That's why I I think that's an important point though. Like that's why Rune is Starborn. Starborn. Which means Ember needs to be starborn. Yes, yes, Oh my God. Yes, like we could be forgot. We forgot about the breeding, about Tamlin spotting and about the alliance with the Autumn Court. And I love this theory because Eris knows so much Eris. Knows.

1:00:01 Paris knows so much that he shouldn't know about the sorry about the Daglin. Like if the Autumn Court has maintained this ability, this knowledge of how to open these portals, Yeah, yeah, it could work. Crazy. I went from like 5050 Lauren is either Reese's mother or sister I think sister to now like 8020 like. Oh my God, I hope, I hope she writes this. I hope this happens.

1:00:30 This is so. If you were listening, we need this plot line, yes. Okay, and that's wild. And that explains Tamlin guilt, because Tamlin also thinks they're dead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but this plotline didn't need to stop with Lauren, right? We know that Baron is like wishy washy and his loyalty to Prithian versus Highburn. Tamlin has been a league with Hyburn. Like if they are both tempted of this promise of building a fresh world for the Faye and Midgard, which is not the first time that that would have been used, then they absolutely might be pitching over some individuals for breeding, especially Damati high Lord lineage that they deemed otherwise unfit to participate in politics.

1:01:12 OK, cool. And the King of Hyburn is Valk, so he knows how to open these portals. King of Hyburn could have been involved like he was. I love it. OK, and This is why you need to read the mass first, just like this is. Why you need to read the mass first? OK, the second one, the second omission.

1:01:26 This is just from the prior part. This is a little bit wack, a little bit off the rails, but like I said Ameren realizes that Farrah can help her harness the cauldron by herself once she has mastered the Ora Boris. She says the surreal gave you a message for me, only me. She basically confesses to lying.

1:01:42 She says, I thought I need your sisters to help you control the cauldron, but after you face the Ora Boris I knew you could do it. Just you and just me, because when you unbind me with the cauldrons power in my real form, I will wipe that army away. We know that the Cauldron is originally from Prythean, but was warped by the and we also theorized the Reese's Starborn. Therefore, part of Steri and Starborn is just having a Steri in your bloodline.

1:02:06 Pharaoh then sees herself in the aura Boris as effectively as a blend of Tamlin's and Reese's beast forms. Is this a blend of a phase shifter and an Asteri beast? And is that why she was able to wield the cauldron by herself is because the Cauldron is of the fae warped by the Asteri and so is Phara? Maybe.

1:02:26 Maybe. Maybe. I do think we'll talk about this, but like there is this fundamental issue, but I actually think I have an answer for it, but it's not coming till our next episode of Reese. Not Reese is certainly Starborn by blood, right? I think we've proven that. I'm 100% convinced by that. But he does not seem to have the Starborn ability.

1:02:46 He does not have any recollection or any notion of the star born line existing in Perthian, right? There is no star born line in Perthian. Why is this this thing that exists so heavily in bid guard but not Perthian when it should? We know that Celine went back to Perthian. We know that her son had the star born power, right? She says no one knew that he, no one would know that the infant that glowed had the power of the Evening Star, right? That is a star born power.

1:03:10 What has happened to that power? Where has it gone? Why has this been lost? I think that is a question. I think I have an answer, but it's coming in our Nest episode. But I think we need to just keep that in the back of our minds. I'm. Into it. All right. Shall we head into mass first? Yes, who is the faceless woman in Pharaoh's dreams who slits her throat? So Pharaoh has a dream after she tracks down the surreal and Tam Lind saves her from the not a.

1:03:43 She's still human at this time. This is in A Court of Thorns and Roses, and the dream was about a woman killing her. And this dream is? I jerked awake in the middle of the night, panting. My dreams had been filled with the clicking of the surreals bone fingers, the grinning not A and a pale faceless woman dragging her blood red nails across my throat, splitting me open bit by bit.

1:04:06 She kept asking for my name, but every time I tried to speak, my blood bubbled out of the shallow wounds on my neck, choking me. She then wakes up, Pharaoh wakes up and there is a fairy from summer being brought into the Spring Court Manor with his wings cut off. So I'll just go into like this, the simplest and most like literally acceptable theory associated with this, and then we can talk about like maybe whether it might be something else.

1:04:30 We are led to believe this is Amarantha. That's interesting because Phaedra has never seen Amarantha, has never met her, and she is human. I say of all of that, there is one woman with red nails in this series, and it is Amaran. And Amaran, I don't know how you feel about Aaron. We haven't really talked about her much. We have a whole episode on her coming, so we don't need to talk about her much here.

1:04:50 But she has done some like suspicious things. She like, tricks Farrah into almost being killed by the Cauldron. She's generally very like reserved standoffish, like you don't want to mess with her. She tries to get the group to hide Nesta's ability to make items from Nesta. She tries to convince Reese to be high King like Aaron is. Duplicitous.

1:05:13 Yeah. Yeah, Like, she might have something else going on. Do I think that that do I know whether that will play out? I don't know. And obviously, like, she gave up herself seemingly and came back as just plain old high Fay. But I looked through the other books for, you know, people with red nails.

1:05:32 Like, who else could this be? I'm sure you have a better idea. My thought is, is this foreshadowing that Amarin is going to eventually be a problem for us? I don't know. I did have a different thought, but I think that's an interesting. I think that's interesting because Amarin's character is obviously like very, very complex.

1:05:48 And I'm sorry for coming at you. I didn't. I think that this faceless woman is vesperous. OK. And the reason why I wanted to leave this question and the reason why I said we had to have this question is because if this is Vesperous, then Sarah J Maas has been planning Vesperous since fucking Acatar, which is wild. Which is wild, right?

1:06:07 That is 8 books and two series of planning. The reason why I think that this could be vesperous. So first of all, as I mentioned, Reese does not recognize this woman, right? I do think he would recognize Amaran too, right? Like I realized she's faceless. I realized there's not a lot to go off of here.

1:06:25 But he says she, you were dreaming. I was in your dream watching as you had a nightmare about some woman slitting your throat. He does not know who this woman is, right? He doesn't know who Vesperus is, but he knows who Amaran is. Amaranth is Vesperus, as we talked about at great length in our Reese's family.

1:06:40 Deep dive is a dream Walker, right? I know that's not what you call it in this series, but she can see the world through dreams. She walks into other people's dreams. She says she in her dream, she sees Thea dance upon the stones above me, dance upon my grave while I started beneath my feet. She says they have a place in this land for creatures like me, the unwanted.

1:06:59 It is called the middle. I have dreamt of it, you know, in my long slumber. So she can travel this world in dreams. Not clear if it's through other people's dreams or if she's just like kind of a ghost wandering the planes or something. But like she gets knowledge about the world through people's dreams.

1:07:14 She does not have blood red nails, but she does have blowjob red lips. That's an exact quote from our Lord and savior Bryce Quinlan. Right? So we are, we are drawn to these red lips. Nothing about her nails does not say anything about her nails. But she has these really, really bright red lips that make Bryce say like what the fuck? Yeah, that's funny.

1:07:35 That's my leading theory, that this is vesperous and that Sarah J Maas is a fucking genius, basically, and has just been planning this for so long. That's what I think. Interesting. And what would? So why? I guess it doesn't matter because this could definitely just be the case regardless of whether we know or we will find out.

1:07:52 But why this early? Do you think Vesperus would? Be in fair streams. Yeah. There's a quote. I'm coming up with this on the fly. I don't have these written down. There's a quote Amaran at one point refers to Reese and Farrah and Nesta and Elaine as it's not exactly players in the ancient game, which is obviously the exact throne of Glass quote, but it's very similar to that. It's like she's like all the ancient players are coming back or something, right?

1:08:18 And we know in throne of Glass that that quote is in book one of throne of Glass, right? Like the gods are watching over Selena. I don't know if it's a similar thing with with Pharah where it's like, shoot, there was always kind of this path for her. She was always kind of faded. It was always going to go this way. I don't know if we're going to get that reveal. We didn't get that reveal and Throne of Glass until Book 8. Maybe.

1:08:40 I don't remember exactly when it happens, right? But like maybe it's Empire storms. Maybe it's Book 5, but like we could still be going in that direction. We don't know. That's true. It would be interesting for Pharaoh to come back in that like level of importance to. I guess we didn't read Throne of Glass as it was coming out, but that must have been a slog if you were finishing one of those books and then waiting for the next one.

1:09:03 Probably took years for you to see a plot line like the one that you're talking about come to fruition. Sarah J Mass mentions the spider Celine being a potential shifter in book 4. It happens in book 8. Like this girl plans like Taylor Swift. That's the only person I have. The plotting and the planning is insane. Yeah.

1:09:25 And it's it's completely dropped. You don't hear about it again until Celine comes back as a fucking shape shift. Yeah, like, it's kind of wild. So let me see if I can find that quote. Give me two seconds. I. I have it. So it was actually the quote when Amaran was confirming that Pharaoh was made Only once before was a human made into an immortal.

1:09:43 Interesting that it should happen again right as all the ancient players have returned. And the quote and thrown his glass. I believe I'm this is from memory guys, but it's all the players in the ancient game are returning right? Could be the same fucking game. Probably is like. And that's maybe just a plug for the fact that like, we really don't know chronologically how all of these series occurred. Like we don't know whether they're in sequence. We don't know whether they're happening in parallel. All we know or hinted towards is that time is the 26th realm. So time maybe doesn't fucking matter. Well, I think we get a couple hints, but we're not going to get into it in this episode.

1:10:21 But yeah, it's we don't know. Obviously there's key moments. Bryce shows up in Prythian and Alien falls through the sky, but we don't know if there is like a time space continuum or just a space continuum. Basically, yes. Cool, cool. All right, great. That's good. Great question, Great discussion. My opinion?

1:10:39 OK, Abby, is Farrah Starborn all? Right, guys, I apologize for my fucking word salad. During the culture and question, I realized that that was not my strongest answer. The reason for that being is because of this question. Like, yes, Farrah is starborn, but she's starborn because she has Reese's power, right?

1:10:59 So Reese gave her a kernel of her power. We talked about Reese being Starborn at length. That kernel of her power, of his power gives him, gives her the Starborn ability. That is why she has a connection to the Cauldron, because the Esteri corrupted the Cauldron. Reese is of the Esteri bloodline.

1:11:16 That is the connection. Yeah, I think it's that's pretty much it. I don't think we need to dive into Reese's Starborn bloodline again. Basically, we know he's Starborn because he's Saline's descendant and the prison gates open for him and no one else, etcetera, etcetera. We talked about Phara having this white light that is seemingly unaccounted for.

1:11:34 I think think this is think this is Bryce's starborn power, but I think interestingly so just some quotes to compare. We're going back to when Pharaoh was battling era, she said. I didn't give Eris time to read my move. I sucked in a sharp breath. White blinding light erupted for me, from me. Eris swore and I ran from Bryce.

1:11:53 Bryce exploded. White blinding light ruptured from her unleashed from that secret place in her heart, word for word, the same white blinding light, right erupted white blinding light. It might see that it is only that white blinding light that Bryce has us at the beginning of Crescent City, and not the full power that Bryce kind of gets at the end. Again, I think we'll get into that, but whatever these Starborn abilities bar that Phaera has, they're clearly not as powerful as what Bryce has.

1:12:21 And again, clearly no one knows about it. And the reason why Highburn and Amarantha and the Cauldron and Nesta all have it too is because if the Valgue and the Asteria are the same thing, then they have this power, right? But the Cauldron is the source of it, right? Like the Cauldron and the Asteria power is the source of it. That's why we see Nesta only once, only once, but use a white blinding light to push back Highburn. Obviously the similarities.

1:12:45 Phaera glowing when her and Reese have said sex. Bryce flows when her and Hunt have sex. Like there's just a lot of parallels. One thing that I think is important here, and we'll talk about this more in the next episode too, but Bryce in Crescent City 3, when she takes that second third of her Starborn power from the prison, that is not Celine Starborn power. That is Thea Starborn power, right? I think that's a little bit confusing but Celine has a third of Thea Starborn power because Thea has split it up between Celine, Helena and her self right? So each the mother gets a third of it and the daughters each get a third.

1:13:22 But the daughters also have their own starborn power. Bryce takes Thea starborn power from the prison. That is the starborn power that Celine is able to transfer to the prison through the harp. It's not Celine power herself. So Celine power unaccounted for at the moment like right, Reese should have it, but he's I don't think he does seemingly.

1:13:41 I think this was one of those things where I kind of earmarked it and I because I feel like we should talk about it in a more dedicated manner later, But I think we should talk about this like Morning Star and Evening Star concept, because you're right, like Celine's power is unaccounted for. Its passed through Reese's line and Reese has a lot of like starry elements, but he has darkness, right?

1:14:05 Like he's dark, not light. And Sarah, whatever she receives from him interestingly, is light. Like I don't know how like this. I'm also still in the middle of my Crescent City reread, so this very well could become obvious to me in like the next week or two. But like this morning star concept and evening star concept and like how important the light is to being starborn.

1:14:26 I don't know if I like fully under damned that yet, but I feel like there's a difference between these people with like the power of night and the power of Starlight I. Totally agree with you. I don't think it is clear. Do you want to know what's really interesting? I didn't bring this up in the recent episode but you saying Morning Star and Evening Star? This triggered my mind.

1:14:45 I was looking up Vesperous, The actual name Vesperus and what it means I don't remember. Hesperus does mean Evening Star Hesperus means. Evening Star? But according to Wikipedia and Hesperus and Vesperus, they're both hysteria. They're seemingly around different places and they both claim the name of the Evening Star. In some cultures, Vesperus is called Lucifer and Lucifer's last name is Morningstar.

1:15:10 Right? This is for Morningstar. So like, what the fuck is going on? Here. And you know who else's name means Morningstar? Oh. If you don't already know this, you're going to. I don't moment Danica again. Probably not. For now I. Think this is really interesting, Danica, This just popped up. To my mind, is the heiress of Crescent City in that she knows so much fucking more than she should, Right?

1:15:39 Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. Let me see. She's Starborn. That's that's basically it. I have one other interesting, interesting thing here. Farrah specifically says her power reacts to Romiel. So in Mist and Fury chapter 15, the quote is they're like the eternal guardians of the city towered a wall of flat top mountains of Redstone, the same stone that had been used to build some of the structures.

1:16:05 They curved around the northern edge of Polaris to where the river bent towards them and float into their shadow. The mountains behind me, they were sleeping giants, somehow alive, awake. As if an answer that undulating, slithering power slid along my bones like a cat brushing against my leg for attention. So we know that Ramiel was really important to the Esteri, right?

1:16:26 So Ramiel is pictured in the carvings underneath the prison. We also see a vision, the vision with Celine in the prison of Thea and Fione on top of Romeo, with two figures cloaked in shadow. We don't know who those people were, but with the cauldron on top of Romeo and then it kind of fades to black. We don't know what happens, but I think that that is fair. Starborn power reacting to something in Romeo. I don't know if it's the monolith on top. I don't know if it's the mountain itself, but we will get there.

1:16:55 Well, and I, I. Don't have the quote perhaps, but I'm pretty sure Celine explicitly tells us that those three peaks sit on top of like pockets of a steri power, right? Well. There's a steri power under the prison. Yeah, there's a fur, there's a core under the prison. I don't know if that's what I don't remember if that's what Bryce takes or not.

1:17:15 But yes, those three peaks. So the the Barren Peak. So we have the Sacred Mountain, we have Ramiel, and we have the prison as the a Steri peaks, basically. All right, what did you have for this one? Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, she, I think like maybe the only clarifying point I would make is like, I think she is, I think she has a steri power because she was given a kernel of reses. But I don't think we have anything to indicate that she was born that way, aside from the fact that Reese was connected to her somehow.

1:17:45 Whether that was just fate, whether that was really power coming from Reese, from the Cauldron, like, I don't know. But she was obviously destined to be connected to the star born in some way because she's Reese's mate. But I think the reason that she has a starry power is because of Reese. I agree, I don't think it's a bloodline thing but how interesting that her and now both her sisters too are gonna have it because they were made in the cauldron and she got it from Reese.

1:18:11 Right. Yeah, Yep, I agree. And I mean they're so like more for our listeners than anything. Like there is so much commentary about her light being star imagery. She was the star. Reese was the night. She has Starlight. Like it's it's all over the place as soon as you start looking for it. So it's not just in our heads.

1:18:32 It's not just in our heads. And these three series I are almost not series. It is almost just one fucking series as far as I'm concerned. Like I don't know, like this is. It's just the same story, I think. I think Throne of Glass may be a little less so, but I kind of think we've yet to see the convergence in Throne of Glass.

1:18:50 But we've got enough crossover. All right. OK, last question. Yes. So the last question we asked ourselves is why does Pharaoh refer to herself as a wolf? There is so much wolf imagery. Not just for Pharaoh. Honestly, there's a fair amount for Nesta, too. Yeah, but so much wolf imagery. So I'll just, like, rattle off some of the important points and then we should talk about, like, what it all could mean and why.

1:19:15 First, Pharaoh's whole story starts with her killing a wolf. So right off the bat, we are like, we're in wolfy territory. Amaranthus sets her trials for once every full moon, right? Like, how interesting that Pharaoh needs to basically transform into this human that is able to achieve these crazy feats every full moon. Like that is very, very wolfy, she says. I'll tell you have one task every month at the full moon. Fair also gets a Phases of the Moon tattoo when she makes a bargain with Brie Axis to keep him company in exchange for his help in the war with with Highburn. I think it's a bone Carver.

1:19:54 I think she gets the tattoo from the bone Carver. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. Sorry. When she makes the bargain with the bone Carver. The thing that I didn't like about that is that I Anthe also has the Faces of the Moon tattoo. Do you? Remember that? Yeah, on her forehead. Yeah, so don't love that, but yeah, fair has faces of the moon tattoo also interesting. Like why does I anthe right, like I anthe is a priestess. Like what about her being a priestess makes that important but more literally right?

1:20:20 She described Feyre describes herself as a wolf when stealing from the Weaver three times, like literally three times says I was a wolf. I am a wolf I bit when cornered. She also describes herself as a wolf when she comes back to her parents estate as a way of saying that she's like kind of unnatural there. So she says seeded before the carved marble sitting room hurt my hood on hands outstretched towards the roaring fire. I felt felt like they had let in a wolf. So she's like almost feeling like unnatural, foreign, predatory in her family's home.

1:20:55 She creates water wolves. She's fighting in battle. So she basically creates her own little pack and she sees a wolf in the Ora Boris, we've already talked about that at length. She's a shifter. She hasn't, I don't think, shifted into anything like a wolf yet in this series, but we know that she has the ability to because she can shift into whatever she pleases and understands.

1:21:16 I think the last thing that is kind of a parallel to Pharaoh being Wolfie, particularly Alpha E, is the fact that she is the protector in her family. She protects everybody. She has an intense need to do so that she can't really state or let go of very easily. And so she, in a way, is like the alpha of her family pack, right?

1:21:38 If Nesta is a wolf, Elena's a wolf, then Ferret is definitely the alpha, despite being the youngest in so far as her protecting the others, not necessarily, you know, emotionally leading the pack necessarily. Reese calls her a wolf as well. The Weaver also calls her a wolf. Yes, yeah, the Weaver does, too.

1:21:56 Yes, Reese says. Remember that you are a wolf. You cannot be caged. So the whole starboard business and Crescent City, right. I think we've already talked briefly about, I think there's going to be this concept of like morning and evening are that take hold here. We know that Ferrer is * born and Danica who was an alpha wolf in Crescent City has a name that literally means Morningstar.

1:22:14 I'm not saying that this is necessarily connected, but like we don't know much about Ferrer's lineage. We think, I'm saying I think because I don't have ironclad proof at this point, but I think that the shifter Faye are sourced from. Aurelia. Yes, Aurelia, however you pronounce it. Oh boy. One of those.

1:22:37 Yeah, one of those. And so could she could like her lineage be from either Midgard or Irelia, I don't know. So. Yes, I I said the same thing. So Nesta is also described as a wolf a couple times. I want to just talk through that. So it says so Nesta this is Silver flames chapter 4. So Nesta had become a wolf, armed herself with invisible teeth and claws and learn to strike faster, deeper, more lethally and relished it. Reese says it's those teeth and claws that let her take something from the We talked about that a bit. But this idea of Nesta being a wolf of Pharaoh. Nesta and Pharaoh both being wolves, right? It was always that way between them. Elaine, sweet and oblivious, and Nesta, the snarling wolf at her side, poised to shred anyone who

1:23:18 threatened her. Poor Elaine. Elaine is just like. I don't know because she does that wrecked. Me too. Nesta is a wolf who has been locked in the cage her whole life. I know Cassian said she was a wolf who had never learned how to be a wolf thanks to the cage humans called propriety and society.

1:23:35 You only think you know. You haven't seen her on the dance floor. That's when Nesta truly lets the wolf roam free. When there's music. This idea that both Nesta and Pharah are wolves. Yes, we have the wolves in Crescent City. I'd like this idea of Morning Star and Evening Star kind of coming together and being important.

1:23:51 I really love that there is a woman in Throne of Glass World who is also referred to herself as a wolf and we almost never talk about her, but I want to talk about her now. Cal Tane Rompier. Is that how you say her name? Sure, I don't know. Let's just summarize Caltane's story real quick because she is actually a very important character, but she doesn't get talked about that much.

1:24:13 So basically she is at first portrayed as this like vapid girl. She wants to marry Dorian, she lets or Perrington take her to court to meet Dorian, but she's planning to ditch Perrington. Perrington of course we later find out is Erawan. He captures Caltane, he puts the word key in her arm and she ends up with a power called Shadow Fire and she destroys Morath. Basically she becomes this really badass and she actually defeats the demon, the Valg Prince that is inside her. She defeats him.

1:24:45 She's the only one I think whoever does that, she's fucking wild and she defeats him. She calls herself a wolf a couple times. So the quotes are she had once believed that she'd been born to be queen. She had since learned that she'd been born to be a wolf. The Duke had even put a collar on her like a dog, and it shoved a demon Prince inside her. She was a wolf.

1:25:05 She was death, devourer of worlds. Nesta is also called death all the time, right? So now we have Caltane, Nesta, and Pharah all being called wolves. I want to talk about the shadow fire idea because Caltane says she had always had fire but the word key corrupted her fire and made it shadow fire.

1:25:25 We've talked about why why the all of the Archer on sisters get turned into Faye become Faye when they're not Faye originally right? And when Jurian doesn't, why does Nesta come out of the cauldron with silver flames, right? Pharah says the power of the cauldron is fire, ice, light and dark, deluge and drought.

1:25:43 It is not just flames, but Nesta comes out of the cauldron with this power of silver flames. Pharah also obviously has flames, right? I am wondering, and this is wackadoodle. I'm saying this right now, this is wackadoodle. But is there something in the Archer on lineage that also had this this flame power?

1:26:00 And in the same way that the word Key changed Caltane's flame power into shadow fire, the Cauldron changed Nesta's power into silver flames. I don't know why this happened with Nesta and not Farrah, but is this actually, rather than a connection to a wolf, a connection to Caltane and you know, flames potentially alien too, You know, like, I don't know, haven't figured that out. Yeah.

1:26:25 But I think it could be I. Mean if so, if the Cauldron is naturally the powers of Prythian, then we have those courts and we have flame as power. And if it was corrupted by the Esteri, then maybe what Nestor took was corrupted flames. I don't know. Yeah, but it's described very differently from Allen's power.

1:26:47 Like that's her power is described more akin to the Autumn Court flames, obviously far more powerful, but it's interesting. Like if it was corrupted and turned deadly into the Death Flames then that would be consistent with both Caltanes and Nestus. Yeah, and Shadow Fire is a similar, it's kind of similar to Nesta's power. It's not cold or anything, but at first before she like fully erupts you, you just feel the burn, but you're not actually being burnt.

1:27:15 So it's this idea of like fire, but not quite fire that I thought was the there are other wolves that are mentioned in Throne of Glass. So Adian is is known as the northern wolf. Fenris obviously is a wolf. Rowan, as we described, as we talked about in Tamlin, is first described as a wolf, but then he isn't.

1:27:30 So wolves are thrown out a lot. I think it could be any of these things that we've discussed, but there's definitely something wolf we'll see and witchy about the our transistor. Wolfie and witchy certainly and witchy. Yeah. All right. Anything else on that one? We'll. Talk about it again. Yeah, Yep.

1:27:48 Cool. All right, Precog corner. Precog corner. OK, so precog corner theories are basically are theories that don't have too much weight to them. Pretty crazy, but we want to just put them out in the universe in case by some off chance they're true. It comes from the precognition signet from Imperium, which was the first series that we covered. So Abby, would you like to share your precog corner theory? Yes.

1:28:11 I want to go back to the Aerobaros. Definitely A wish mirror, right? Like this thing's 100% A wish mirror. I think it is not only a witch mirror, but it speaks to a connection between Farah and I think Manon specifically. So we have a description of the Euro Burroughs. It was old even when we were young. A window to the world, all could be seen, all could be told through its dark surface.

1:28:34 I already read that one right. The witch mirror descriptions are you can see future, past and present. You can speak between mirrors if someone possesses the sister glass. So future, past and present, a window to the world, all could be seen, all could be told. Sounds pretty similar to me. Again, favor goes into the mirror. Manon and Alan go into a witch mirror at the Empire at the end of Empire of Storms.

1:28:57 I think this thing is definitely 100% of witch mirror, which means there were witches in Pristian at some point and also raises questions. I know people have raised this question, but about Moore's lineage and about her connection to the witches, right? We've talked. We talked about the snake around the outside of the Euro Burrows, right? In Air of Fire, Manon described Drives a serpent, an ancient serpent who held the world between his coils at the behest of a three faced goddess.

1:29:24 So yes, in our world, obviously this is the Earl Burrows, but I think in this world perhaps it is that serpent. The name of that serpent is Abraxas, right? Manon named her Wyvern after that serpent. So I think this, which mirror specifically has potentially a tie to Manana. Again, not a ton to go off of here, just kind of like fun connections.

1:29:46 You talked about the black and gold fur being a part of her like Tamlin self and a part of her kind of re self. Also reminds me of the eyes of the Valk eyes. So like gold eyes are the eyes of the king. Manana has those gold eyes, but some of her black feet clan have black eyes flecked with gold, which reminds me of Pharaoh's black and gold fur. Yeah, what was the other thing I had by? The way that beast being an indicator of Fair being a witch still makes perfect sense because what are witches? They are Valg and Faye.

1:30:16 Exactly. So this idea I I only read this today so I didn't write this down, but it was old when we were young about the era. Boris Mirror Brannon says that exact quote to Alan about Maeve. And then again, the idea that to look in the mirror is to have madness, right? And to look upon the Val kings is to have madness.

1:30:36 To look at Amarantha is to see madness, right? Like these are all, I think, converging to a point here. And yeah, like witches are just Valgan Fey. So like, it works, right? You mentioned Pharaoh's moon tattoo. The moon is heavily referenced by the witches and throne of glass. They don't like derive power or anything from it, but they have different names for all of the phases of the moon.

1:30:58 So the Crescent moon is the crown's sickle. The new moon is the crown's shadow. The full moon is the mother's full womb. And then Manon's hair is described as the as as like the moon as well. Right. So it's kind of pointing to Manon. It's kind of pointing to the mother. We also this is actually a cosm. I should have done this earlier, but one of our, I think they're a listener and they, they comment frequently on our Instagrams.

1:31:21 Their handle is Zade and Cherry. So thank you Zade and Cherry for this idea. They commented. Could the Archer runs just be descendants of Manon and Dorian, right? Because they're human, like Dorian is human, right? They're human, but that would also be like a super obviously powerful like you would have to be diluted over time, but totally possible.

1:31:44 Yeah, it. Would have to be diluted, I don't know. Yeah, right, like what happened to Celine's power, you know, like we have these like clear bloodlines where power has disappeared. So yeah, I don't know, maybe even on a Dorian, but I'm definitely feeling the Archer on witchy vibes all over the fucking place here. And we will talk about it more in our Nest episode 2. Like for sure, what's yours I?

1:32:04 Had two one liners and then we can see whether we make them into anything or whether they're just nothing at all, which is kind of the vibe of Precog Precog quarter. Crazy idea number one. We talked about how Aurelia we think was the source of the shifter fae. What if all of Prythian was once shifter fae and every high fae and Prythian could have had a beast form anybody.

1:32:27 Absolutely needs to talk about this, yeah. We hear from Reese potentially depending on how you went, interpreted that all fae were beasts a long time ago. He describes the mating ritual as an important moment when a female offers her mate food. It goes back to whatever beasts we were a long long time ago. All of the high Lords have a beast form. They are one with like all of the power in the land basically. Like what if Prythian is actually the home of shifter Faye?

1:32:58 OK. Second point to this, there is a rumor in the human lands that iron harms Faye and it doesn't impression but it does in Aralea it. Doesn't Throne of Glass world but like you have to be like encased in it for your power to not work right I. Mean So I just reread the scene Yeah, I guess so. I guess that's true, but I, I, I think it doesn't, Tamlin says.

1:33:22 IR does nothing to us. Yeah, but Tamlin's a liar. I think Lucian says it too. Lucian's also a liar. I don't know. I don't think I'm liar to the. Birth of the Unfaith. Well, I guess the king of hybrid has to have those special chains, so maybe I mean. I'm still going back to the idea that this is actually actually the same world. Like, I don't know how, but like something with because we know the power of the word, like keeps keeps the like parallel timelines on the same world.

1:33:51 Or maybe even just like Throne of Glass was way in the past and this is what has kind of happened now. Yeah. Because we have also long forgotten gods, right? Yeah. Could be the Esteri, could also be the gods from Throne of Glass. There's something there. We haven't cracked it yet. But like, I did see this crazy theory over the weekend. I guess I'll just talk about it now. That Aylan is the mother and that Aylan actually created Prithean when she closed the word gate because there's a line that says world's collapsed on to each other, collapsed onto each other and the wrists and the openings in the universe were Eitlin opened the word opening the word gate. And that's when like the

1:34:28 different beasts could slip through and that she was actually traveling through time when she ended up in Prithean. I did not think that there was enough evidence based on what the person said to convince me that Aylan was the mother and the creator of Prithean. But I think it's I cannot shake the feeling that like these are all kind of the same world.

1:34:47 Yeah, yeah. And the power. Yeah. I don't know the power. When you read Throne of Glass, you're shook harder by the power of Aylan and Dorian than you are by the power of the others. So it makes sense. Like the power of Reese, for example. OK, there's another thing. Powerful man in Prithian. Well, yeah, there's another thing to talk about here, which was like what I thought you were going to say, which is that the Faye in Throne of Glass seemed much more powerful in general than the Faye and Acutar.

1:35:15 And Lanthus talks about magic being diminished and magic not being what it once was, right? Like is it just time or has something happened the way that the Esteri are? Harnessing the magic, and I think that yeah, I think of that, yeah. No one has convinced me that the Daglin are not still secretly ruling Prithian like the Cauldron has their power. So I don't know.

1:35:39 Okay #2 this is fun game. This is fun game. Okay as I was looking through specifically Farah's Starborn evidence got a like tickle in the back of my mind. Guys please know this is totally like could be not true at all. So you know how Nesta makes these things right? Like Nesta forges like a sword and a knife and another sword.

1:36:02 In the house and. Yeah, she makes monster stuff. Is Reese gradually making Farrah? And the reason that I say that is because Farrah glows in reaction to basically Reese like pouring himself, literally pouring himself into her. OK. And there is this kind of crazy moment right after they first mate where he traces a circle around Farrah's breast, then lower so he's tracing a circle. I remember this moment.

1:36:34 Then very, very distinctively, A downward arrow beneath her belly button. So he's literally drawing a symbol of a male on Farrah's stomach. And then they have a boy like is Reese unknowingly just like forging Farrah and Nicks over the course of this entire series? Well, some people certainly think that he's like corrupting her, right?

1:37:00 This is a different take than that I think. Yeah, I don't. I actually don't even think he would be doing it intentionally, right. Nesta totally does everything that she does unintentionally. She makes the house just by loving it and talking to it. She makes the blades just by, like, hammering them.

1:37:16 Could Reese, I mean accidentally, just be making Faera? Right. In a very real sense, yes, Reese did make Faera, right? Well, he gave her a starboard power to think about that. I don't know. I mean, what's the outcome there? Just that she's getting powerful, more powerful over time. Do you feel like we're not done with how many books are supposed to be in this series? That's seven, right?

1:37:34 I. Don't know. I don't even know how many years. I assumed that Crescent City was 4 and ACOTAR was 7 because of the four houses and the seven courts, but I kind of feel like you could write about this. I thought I had heard that ACOTAR was going to be 7, which I think is interesting because obviously we're getting book 6. We think that's going to be a lane story, which kind of leaves Book 7 open for interpretation.

1:37:58 Like, do you think Because I kind of think it might be a rejoining of all of these stories and big fucking epic Kingdom of Ash style story I. Think it has to be I. Think it has? The question is, does it have to be, is that how a guitar is going to go, or is that going to be Crescent City I? Don't know because.

1:38:16 I think it's it's so far being set up to be Crescent City, right? Like that's where the crossover is happening. But I don't know how we write another a guitar book later in Nix's life. And like Bryce, Quinlan doesn't drop in I. Think it has to be a guitar. I think it I think it has to be a guitar because I think it's exactly what you you said where the Daglin are not really gone maybe or they come back or something. Bryce gives nest of the star sword, right. And she says at the end of Crescent City, the time of the starboard Faye in Midgard is over here. Take the star sword.

1:38:49 So I think it has to be Akatar. I'm just. So curious how she's going to pull that off because like, that's how in my mind, that's how you start the next book of Crescent Cities with that plot line. Because like, you can't just insert that without proper context into the middle of A Court of Thorns and Roses.

1:39:06 This is an active debate. We can continue this, but I don't know. I don't. Know I don't have the answer. You get readers like us who are just like. Yeah, I don't know. She so far has not given any indication to anyone that you had to have read Crescent City. Crescent City. But she is weaving the Daglin in.

1:39:26 She is, yeah. Yeah, So maybe she'll just keep doing this effectively in parallel that I feel like just has to mean that the conclusion, the part with the star sword, however that plays out is probably Crescent setting we'll. Get to it in our nested conversation. What are they going to say? Like, oh, we just like we found Gwidian from this random woman who showed up and we're not going to tell you any of the story.

1:39:46 I see what you're saying. How does how does Nesta explain that she has the Star Sword? Yes. I'm not a writer. I don't know. I'm not a writer. All right. OK, well that I think. Anything else to add? We could there good, good, good, good. All right, What are you reading, Abby? I am free Throne of Glass. OK, But I OK, I have things to talk about here. I did start the spell shop, which I said I was going to start.

1:40:16 It's nice. It's lovely. It's a little slow at the beginning. I will get back to it, but I am just so swept out of glass rolled at the moment. Yeah. I didn't mean to do this. I didn't mean to reread all of the mass first, but it's just like I can't stop now. Yeah, so. You're in it. Especially since it's only your second read, that's how many.

1:40:36 Times Have you read it I. Guess I've only I've only read Crescent City once. I'm doing my second read now. I feel like I reread the parts of Throne of Glass that I liked, but there's definitely a good amount of Throne of Glass that I just haven't reread. Look. I've said it on this podcast before, the first time I'm reading these books, it's for, I'll say the love story.

1:40:56 Yeah, which is so dumb because I actually love the fantasy and the world building so much. Yeah, and the second read is so much better every time. It's so much better and I love it. Definitely reread books, guys. Other people are slightly. Less bad in that I do pay attention to the full full plot, but I agree with you like you're not. You're reading it for vibes on the 1st. Like the first time I read Throne of Glass I was like where the fuck did Manon and Dorian come from? This is so random and now I'm like, oh Manon and Dorian, that seed was planted like way back.

1:41:27 Yeah, I definitely have brought this up on this podcast before, but there was a commenter on TikTok that just asked whether she could skip the witch chapters, and I was like, no, no, no. No, no, no. Unless, I mean, maybe if you want to avoid the biggest heartbreak ever then maybe skip the witch chapters, but Dang you're missing out. What?

1:41:49 Are you reading Ron Christen? City. Oh, right. Yeah, we know that, yeah. I'm reading Christen City. I have a lot of books to catch up on. I know I have to get back to the Shepherd King duology, and I'm excited too, but I just like, don't have time to both catch up on Crescent City and read that I did watch I watched this, the series based on Jenny Hahn's trilogy. Have you heard of this?

1:42:10 The summer I turned pretty. Oh. Yeah, of course I've turned. I've heard of. It's fucking everywhere. Yeah, it's. Everywhere, yeah. And I was like, I just need to know what happens because I can't see it everywhere. And just, like, have no idea what is going on. I'm not going to lie, and I know I'm going to get crucified for this because people love this series.

1:42:28 The second season was a hate watch. It was a hate watch. I hated every minute of it. Third season came back around, but I had to like get that out of the way because it's literally it. It's infiltrating our algorithm. Like the romanticity algorithm is infiltrated by the summer. I turn pretty fans.

1:42:47 And so when I'm doing like my algorithm work, I'm just like, God, I need to know what the hell is going on this series so. I see ads for it constantly and I'm like, are there Faye? I don't care if there's not, no. Yeah, it's entirely, Well, I won't even say it's realistic. It's about humans. It takes place in this world, it.

1:43:08 Takes place in this world. I wouldn't say it's realistic. The other thing that bothered me, honestly, about the marketing for this series is every time an episode came out, they are posting spoilers from the episode, like clips from the episode that, like, spoil everything. And so I'm like, OK, well, like, why am I watching this?

1:43:29 Yeah. So anyways, I'm glad I did it. I'm also glad it's over, frankly. All right guys. Well, thanks for hanging out with us. We are on social media, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube as Dragons in the details pod is our handle. We have an e-mail address dragonsinthedetailspod@gmail.com follow us interact with us there. It's super fun.

1:43:52 We have a discord, it's called Dragons in the details. Is it pod server? I think it's just Dragons in the details server just. Try. It's in the details. Yeah, it's just try a single. Discord server, It's LinkedIn, all of our socials. We get fun conversations on the Discord guys, like really? It's like Reddit on steroids. It's super fun.

1:44:11 It's fun and like comment, subscribe to wherever you listen. It means a lot to us and it really helps us out. We're a little, but we're working on getting bigger. Small but mighty. Small but mighty. OK. Thanks for listening, love. You bye, love you bye.